The Business Behind the Book: Ally Machate on Writing That Builds Empires, Not Just Libraries

Summary

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Podcast Summary

The Business Behind the Book: Ally Machate on Writing That Builds Empires, Not Just Libraries

Podcast: The Amazing Authorities Podcast
Host: Mitch Carson
Guest: Ally Machate (Founder, The Writer’s Ally)
Date: November 3, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode explores how authorship can strategically level up your business and personal brand—not merely by adding a book to your resume but by leveraging the right book at the right time. Mitch Carson draws on guest Ally Machate’s deep expertise in helping entrepreneurs and professionals write, refine, and publish books that open doors, build authority, and drive real-world results. Together, they bust common myths around who should write a book, discuss the realities and opportunities in publishing today, and unpack the tactics that separate vanity from impact.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Who Should (and Shouldn’t) Write a Book?

• Myth Busting the “Everyone Has a Book” Mantra
  • Ally emphasizes not everyone benefits equally from authorship. It's about the right timing, message, and goals—not just writing for writing’s sake.
    • “Qualified is an interesting word to use. You know, anybody can write a book, certainly… But the next step, if you actually want anyone to read that book and you want that book to get results for you, is you have to start thinking about who is going to read that book, who do you want to read that book, and what do you want that book to do for you?” — Ally Machate [02:49]
  • Example: A plumber writing a book? Likely not helpful, since customers don’t turn to books for plumbing issues. Meanwhile, for an attorney or expert speaker, a book can be a pivotal asset.

2. Authorship as a Tool for Authority and Income

• How Authorship Impacts Perception and Opportunity

  • Mitch shares his own transformation: after becoming a published author, he raised his rates and shattered his own income ceiling.
    • “Once I cracked that belief, it’s amazing, like the sky opened up, Moses appeared, parted the sea for me, and I was able to march through and get to the other side and never look back. …Because what it did between my left ear and my right ear is all about what I believe…you get in life what you feel you deserve.” — Mitch Carson [05:51]

• Media Worthiness and Client Attraction

  • A book can make you more appealing to media and higher-ticket clients, even when traditional TV/radio reach is harder for self-published authors to access today.
  • Case study: Ally recounts a recent client closing bigger deals and seeing a tangible shift in others’ perceptions once she became a published author.
    • “She told me… when she was talking to people about what she could do… and she would mention that she had just published this book, she said their whole face changed. Yes, they leaned in.” — Ally Machate [09:17]

3. Traditional vs. Self-Publishing: Evolving Opportunities

• Traditional Publishing:
  • Still valuable but more exclusive, favoring those with large platforms, connections, or “sticky” ideas.
    • “Traditional publishers are like the Olympics or the major leagues of book publishing, if you will. Only a tiny percentage… can [access it].” — Ally Machate [20:58]
• Self-Publishing:
  • Now offers robust tools for quality distribution, publicity, and even translation—once unavailable.
  • Limitations remain: certain high-profile platforms (airport bookstores, major TV, New York Times list) are harder to access.

4. The Truth about “Bestseller” Badges

• Amazon Bestseller Myth vs. Reality
  • Many play the “category bestseller” game on Amazon, which can be a vanity metric rather than meaningful success.
    • “You could publish a book… in the category of basket weaving… you sell three [copies], you are the number one best selling category in basket weaving. But you don’t have to say that, right? You just tell people, well, I’m an Amazon bestseller, right?” — Ally Machate [13:19]
  • True bestseller status (top 100 or NYT list) is substantially more difficult but far more impactful.
  • Amazon has cracked down on misleading claims.

5. What Book Success Really Looks Like

• ROI Beyond Book Sales

  • Often, a well-positioned book brings in speaking gigs, consulting, and new clients worth far more than direct book revenue.
  • Mitch’s story: A client found his book online and initiated $60–70,000 in consulting contracts.
    • “The book was paid for many times over right there. …And guess what happened? It all snowballed.” — Mitch Carson [16:58]

• Transformative Process

  • Writing a book forces deep business clarity and can improve your workshops, teaching, and how you serve clients—sometimes changing other parts of your business entirely.

6. Marketing and Launch Essentials

• Foundational Launch Steps

  • For new authors without a platform, focus on generating an initial wave of reviews (aim for 25–50 in the first 30 days).
  • Network with similar authors for endorsements and cross-promotion.
    • “We focus on getting a large number of positive reviews as quickly as possible. We focus on introducing the author, we do some research to find other authors in their category…” — Ally Machate [28:21]

• Why Reviews Matter

  • “Bare, bare minimum we say is 25. Ideally it’s 50. If you get 50 reviews minimum in the first 30 days, that can start to make a lot of things happen.” — Ally Machate [32:13]

• Ads and Podcasts

  • Amazon ads are useful, but only after the foundational elements are in place.
  • Audiobooks: A rapidly growing market, but best to invest after launching print and ebook editions.

7. Social Media and Book Marketing Channels

• Not Every Author Needs Social

  • Social can be helpful but isn’t mandatory. Ally warns against forcing reluctant authors onto platforms like TikTok.
    • “If you don’t like using it now and you’re already not using it, you’re either gonna fall off the wagon real fast or you’re gonna hate it. And your stuff is never gonna be that good because that energy is going to come across being forced.” — Ally Machate [26:52]

• TikTok (“BookTok”):

  • Works best for certain genres (YA, romance, genre fiction), less so for serious nonfiction.
    • “Colleen Hoover…her career was launched on TikTok…people virally finding her work and loving her work.” — Ally Machate [24:35]

• Podcasting, Blogging:

  • Powerhouse platforms for nonfiction authors.

8. Realistic Goals—And the Long Road to Authority

• Success is Pragmatic, Not Just Inspirational
  • Major bestsellers often built a substantial brand or audience long before a book deal.
    • “Before they even got the book deal, they already had a very successful business and… platform to build on…” — Ally Machate [35:18]
  • Overnight “success stories” often mask years of preparation and incremental progress.
    • “Yes, it only took 10 years for my overnight success to happen.” — Ally Machate’s friend [38:41]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “Anybody can write a book. I don’t always recommend, though, that a book is the right tool for the job.” — Ally Machate [01:27]
• “When you’re a business owner, you want to think really strategically about it…Are my clients actually reading those books?” — Ally Machate [02:49]
• “I allowed myself to make serious money because I believed I deserved it…because I became a published author…” — Mitch Carson [05:51]
• “She had an identity…she was closing business faster, closing higher ticket packages…when she mentioned she had just published this book, their whole face changed.” — Ally Machate [09:17]
• “Traditional publishing is kind of the same thing [as the Olympics or pro sports]. Only a tiny percentage…can.” — Ally Machate [20:58]
• “You’re leveraging that book as a tool to get other opportunities where they’re going to make vastly more money than they ever would just trying to sell books one copy at a time.” — Ally Machate [16:07]
• “If you don’t like using [social media] now…you’re just going to hate it.” — Ally Machate [26:52]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:44–01:21 – Ally describes her company’s typical client and process
• 02:49 – Who benefits from writing a book? “Are your clients even reading books?”
• 05:21–07:09 – Mitch shares his story of how authorship shattered his perceived income ceiling
• 09:17 – Real-life client example: How publishing a book changed business outcomes
• 13:19–16:07 – The truth about Amazon bestsellers and why category badges are mostly “vanity”
• 16:58–19:04 – Mitch’s consulting windfall from book visibility
• 20:58–23:09 – Traditional vs. self-publishing today: opportunities and barriers
• 24:35–26:00 – “BookTok” and how TikTok works for authors
• 26:28–27:35 – Should all authors do social media? (Spoiler: No)
• 28:21–31:08 – Ally’s “foundational” launch plan for new authors
• 32:13 – The magic number for reviews (25–50 in the first 30 days)
• 33:30–34:33 – Audiobooks: timing and investment
• 35:18–36:24 – What Mel Robbins and James Clear did right before publishing
• 38:41 – The real “overnight success” is ten years of work

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Guest Resources

• Ally’s Website: thewritersally.com
• Special Free Resource: “Don’t Write the Wrong Book” Webinar
  • offers.thewritersally.com/amazingauthorities

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Tone and Style Notes

• The conversation is candid, practical, and encouraging, with an emphasis on strategic thinking and realistic expectations.
• Both Mitch and Ally share personal stories and client anecdotes, creating an engaging, motivational, and trustworthy atmosphere.

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This summary captures all key themes, advice, stories, and practical frameworks discussed, enabling both aspiring and established authors to better understand the business (and mindset) behind writing books that drive real-world authority and results.

Transcript

[Mitch Carson]

Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast, where game changers, visionaries, and category leaders share how they built their brands, platforms, and global influence. Your host is Mitch Carson, international speaker, media strategist, and creator of the Instant Authority system. If you're ready to learn from those who've done it and want to become the go to expert in your space, you're in the right place.

Ali Machate is in the house. Did I pronounce your name correctly?

[Ali Machadi]

Oh, you're so close. It's Machadi with a soft sheet.

[Mitch Carson]

Oh, okay. All right. Well, Spanish is my second language. And that would be Machate. Yeah.

[Ali Machadi]

Yes. Yeah, it would be in Spanish, sure.

[Mitch Carson]

Okay, well, you're here, and you take ideas, concepts, and help people materialize it, and then take them all the way through the right or conceptualizing writing, publishing, and then the marketing of their books. Is that an accurate assessment of what your service provides?

[Ali Machadi]

Yeah, pretty much. Most of our clients come to us with at least a rough draft completed, but we really help them to shape it and refine it and make sure their message is clear before we move on to production.

[Mitch Carson]

Okay, and who's qualified to write a book?

[Ali Machadi]

Qualified is an interesting word to use. You know, anybody can write a book, certainly. And the technology available these days and with the Internet, really, the barriers are very, very low. So anybody could produce a book. I don't always recommend, though, that a book is the right tool for the job. And I don't think that everybody's necessarily in the right place to get the most benefit from a book.

[Mitch Carson]

I'm going to make a. Create a scenario, and you'll tell, and I'd love to invite your feedback whether or not he should write a book, because I've heard the story. You might have heard the story. You probably have, given your industry, oh, there's a book in every person. May or may not be true, but then the question is, who qualifies? So Joe owns a plumbing company, and he's got Bill, his assistant or his protege who's there to help. And they unclog pipes, essentially, and then sometimes they get new plumbing to put in for new housing developments, but they're busy five, six days a week. Somebody gave him an idea at the chamber mixer. Joe, you should write a book to separate yourself from Bill, who's the plumber down the road. Is there any truth to that?

[Ali Machadi]

I'd say there is some truth to that, and it is a really common scenario. Right. This idea that, like, oh, you should write a book, that's a great idea. You should write A book. It's not always true. So plumbing, Right? First question, are his clients reading books? Are his clients turning to books for. For solutions about their plumbing? That's the more important question. When you're a business owner, you're an expert of some kind, and you're writing a book specifically for business purposes, you want to think really strategically about it. A lot of people generate the idea of writing a book from either someone saying to them, oh, you should write a book about that, or they internally just feel like they have something they want to say. That's how a lot of projects start, and that's great. But the next step, if you actually want anyone to read that book and you want that book to get results for you, is you have to start thinking about who is going to read that book, who do you want to read that book, and what do you want that book to do for you? If Joe wants a book to bring him clients, he has to ask those questions. Are my clients actually reading those books? What kinds of problems are they looking for? And are they going to turn to a book for a solution? In Joe's particular place, since he's a plumber, I'm going to go out on a limb and say, probably not. Most people, they got a problem with their toilet, they don't go for a book to fix the toilet. So he's probably not going to get a lot of benefit out of a book.

[Mitch Carson]

All right, that's an honest assessment. Okay. Bill Jones, attorney at law, Downtown Baltimore. Should he have a book?

[Ali Machadi]

If he is looking to grow his business, and he's been in business long enough that he has something that he wants to say to his clients, something that really encapsulates his philosophy of law, how he works, or he wants to teach them something that's going to help them to be better clients for him in the long run, a book certainly might be a good idea. A lot of it has to do with timing. Sometimes it has to do with resources. Sometimes it has to do with the specific goal. You know, we talked a little bit before we got on air about doing podcasts. You know, you asked me if I had had my own podcast. A podcast is another really great way to share content, attract people, and build an audience. So it's not always a book that's the best answer, but for Bill, yeah, it might be. It certainly would be worth the conversation, and it definitely should be something that he thinks about.

[Mitch Carson]

I wrote books because my then mentor said it was necessary if I wanted people to take me seriously as a Professional speaker, and my rates were able to go up. But here's the big thing that happened with me. My thinking about what I deserved in life. And my income went up 16 fold when I became a published author with John Wiley and Sons.

[Ali Machadi]

Interesting.

[Mitch Carson]

Yes, Because I broke through the income barrier ceiling, the proverbial glass ceiling, which is always self imposed, because I think we make the amount of money if we're in business for ourselves that we believe we deserve. And I was able to break through that and make serious money. I allowed myself to make serious money because I believed I deserved it. Because I became a published author and I had already had an MBA and I had gone to, I ticked the right boxes, went to a very good school from undergrad, went back and got an mba and I was making very good money, but not really good money. And once I cracked that belief, it's amazing, like the sky opened up, I, Moses appeared, parted the sea for me, and I was able to march through and get to the other side and never look back. That's how much I believe in the power of being a published author. Because what it did between my left ear and my right ear is all about what I believe, Ike. Because I believe you get in life what you just what you feel you deserve.

[Ali Machadi]

Yeah, I mean, that's an incredible story. And you're absolutely right. And for people, for a lot of people in the right position, like you said, you'd already had experience, you had a degree, you'd been in the field, you had things to say. For somebody at that level, writing a book absolutely can be like a magic key that unlocks that next level or to use that buzzword, right, that. To uplevel your business or uplevel your life. A book absolutely can be the key that opens that door. It's just a matter of, you know, for each individual person. Is that where your business needs to go and are you at that level? You know, I think a lot of people, when they get told they should write a book, sometimes it's too early. They've just started their business, they've just launched whatever they're doing, and people tell them, oh, write a book and it'll bring you clients and it'll grow your business, but they don't ever actually have anything to put in the book yet that would be compelling enough to, to accomplish those goals. So there are some questions, but yeah, generally I do agree with you. A book is an absolutely powerful tool. It's amazing for most business owners and it can really just be an incredible game changer.

[Mitch Carson]

And it did more than that. So I'm, I'm fueling, I'm. I'm adding fuel to the fire of your business and what you do. Because I'm such a believer and I was excited to have you on my show because I went through and looked at your website. I do look into the backgrounds of my guests to make sure that they're a good fit. You're a great fit. And I want to see you get clients as a result of being on my show because someone will resonate with your message. And what it also did was it made me media worthy. And why did it make me media worthy? Because hosts of shows, it's very hard to get on TV on your own. You can go through a publicist and they charge a boatload of money, or you can take some other measures. And if you write a book, it's a unique thumbprint. And what have you seen work for people that have become published authors? What media is availed to them?

[Ali Machadi]

Well, I'll be honest, we don't have a lot of clients that go for mainstream TV anymore. Mainstream TV and radio, especially if you're self publishing, has become really out of reach for a lot of people. But there is still lots of media available. We've seen people get on tons of podcasts. We've seen people use a book to launch a podcast. So they publish the book first to build the audience a little bit, and then they have the podcast to grow it further. But even just like you were talking about, the psychology of how writing a book changes you and changes how you show up with people, I think is really worth, you know, spending a minute on, because I had a client not too long ago, her book published earlier in the summer. Really great lady, very smart, lots of experience in her business, but, you know, not incredibly visible. And then she wrote this book. She had an identity. She identified a real need in her niche. She was able to create a book that people desperately needed and wanted. She targeted it very well. We helped her all the way throughout the process. She, she was actually one of our coaching clients. When we had a book coaching service a few years back, we really made sure that the book was dialed in very precisely to the people she wanted to help and the people she wanted to work for. And I talked to her not too long ago and just a month or two after the book had released, she told me that she was closing business faster, she was closing higher ticket packages. And she said the most interesting thing was when she got into a room, whether it was virtual or literal. And when she was talking to people about what she could do for their organization and she would mention that she had just published this book, she said their whole face changed. Yes, they leaned in, they got more interested. You mentioned being taken more seriously as a speaker. If there are certain goals that if the book is right, being a speaker, attracting higher level clients, getting in front of new people, media opportunities, speaking engagements, keynote speaking, all of these things. It is true that having a book helps people to take you more seriously because they know that if you've put the time and energy into writing a book and the book is good and it's professional, that that's a reflection of what you're going to bring to them in anything that you do.

[Mitch Carson]

You mentioned TV and radio is out of reach. What do you mean by that?

[Ali Machadi]

I wouldn't say it's entirely out of reach, but if you're an independent author, most television shows and radio shows, mainstream TV and radio, they're just not as amenable, they're not as friendly to people who are independently published as they are to traditional publishers. Well, they already have those established relationships. That doesn't mean that you can't get it right. It certainly does happen, but you definitely have to make a much bigger impact as an independent author before those channels are going to really be interested in talking to you. Compared to podcasters and bloggers and influencers, there's just, I think the Internet is a landscape that's just more friendly to independent producers of all kinds of content.

[Mitch Carson]

Well, and you, you, we, we talked a little bit about the game of becoming an Amazon bestseller. And it is a game about the right categories and keywords and getting a boot, a bunch of friends to maybe pre order and play that game. It's partially there, but is there any merit to it? Talk about the different badges of an author and how important that is in elevating their credibility of their book. I mean, it's one, it's a huge feat to, to write a book. I acknowledge anybody that's gone through the process, it's hard, it's challenging, and I'm glad there are people like you that can navigate those tough waters for people because most people start and stop as well as they don't ever do a podcast. They start and stop because it is difficult and it does take perseverance. So what, what would you recommend or what do you, what can you talk about? Is it more than sales?

[Ali Machadi]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So a lot of people, I think some of it's pop culture. Right. It's just what we see happening. People celebrate being, oh, they're bestselling author, they're New York Times bestselling author. This person's best selling. Bestselling, bestselling. And if you're a New York Times bestselling author, whole different level. Whole different level because it reflects a certain amount of sales, right? It's not just about the merit of the book. If you're a New York Times bestseller, it means your book is selling major numbers countrywide, right? So, yeah, that's moving the needle in a very real way. But I think people don't understand that that word bestseller doesn't mean the same in every context. So here we have Amazon. People publish on Amazon. They think, okay, well, I want to be a bestseller, I'll be an Amazon bestseller. And Amazon has a number of different types of bestsellers. So if you were in the top 100 of books selling on Amazon, that really means something. Of all the millions of books that Amazon sells, if you rank in the top 100, it means you are selling a large enough number of copies, you're getting serious visibility. And then Amazon telling you that you're a best seller means that Amazon itself starts to get engaged in helping you to sell your book. So there's a real tangible benefit to that if you reach that level. But what most people are talking about when they say they're an Amazon bestseller is a category bestseller. I personally consider that to be a bit of a vanity metric because. Oh, yeah, you know, like, so to use the worst example, right? You could publish a book and you could say, well, this book is belongs in the category of basket weaving, right? And if there are three other books in the basket weaving category and they sell two copies a month and you sell three, all of a sudden you are the number one best selling category in best in basket weaving. But you don't have to say that, right? You just tell people, well, I'm an Amazon bestseller, right?

[Mitch Carson]

And you got the screenshot to prove it.

[Ali Machadi]

That's right. And you've got the screenshot to prove it. And this problem has become so widespread that Amazon itself has actually started cracking down on it. There was a notice just a couple of years ago that they were going to start scanning people's descriptions and covers. If you call yourself an Amazon bestseller, and in fact you are a category bestseller, not actually in the top 100 of Amazon's actual bestseller list, they will penalize you. They don't want people saying that because they realize that it's so misleading that this category bestseller Thing, it's also very fleeting. You know, it gets refreshed, I think something like every hour or maybe even more frequently than every hour. So if you have a big batch of sales come in, all of a sudden you hit that, that category bestseller list, it's gone very quickly.

[Mitch Carson]

Yes. Unless you do it every day.

[Ali Machadi]

Right, exactly. So in some ways it's meaningful. In some ways it doesn't mean as much. As far as it being a goal, I don't think it's the right goal. Especially when you're writing nonfiction and you have a business. I mean, personally, I'd rather sell a whole bunch of copies slowly over the course of a few years than sell a whole bunch in one week, hit a bestseller category and never sell another copy again. And beyond that, think about how much money one client brings to you or what one speaking opportunity could be for you. Some people never sell books, you know, they don't hit bestseller categories because that's not really their goal. They, they're leveraging that book as a tool to get other opportunities where they're going to make vastly more money than they ever would just trying to sell books one copy at a time.

[Mitch Carson]

It I from my personal experience, I retired briefly in 2012 and was living in Lima, Peru. I had written a book which was published by John Wiley and Sons, the traditional route. And I would do want to talk about traditional versus self publishing. And I was retired, I thought. And then all of a sudden my PayPal dinged $1000 and I didn't know where that came. I was like, where? Who's paying me money? And it was for a one hour consult from when I was running an advertising agency in Los Angeles which I had sold in 2008 and this money hit my account. Well, it was for a consult. And how did he find me? Through my book that I'd written, the Silent Salesman, which had published. I got about 27 reviews. Not a lot, but more than the average. I think the, you know, average person gets two or three or something. But these were organic reviews that had come in and I was in a niche category and I got this call that came in and you know, request an appointment. So I called the guy who was in la, coincidentally where I had originally come from, and called them. And then it resulted in about 60/2 thousand dollars in consulting that I got involved in related to my book. That book was paid for many times over right there. And guess what happened? It all snowballed. Four clients came in because of that, all paying me a lot of money every Month. And it was, these were six month contracts. So I unretired very quickly, all because of me being a published author. So there isn't anybody that can convince me to say, oh, a book is wasted. I've asked a lot of people over the years, if you could put your book back in your head and without all the expense, would you do it? Even the people that whine, I didn't make any money. None have ever said, I, oh, I would put it back in my head.

[Ali Machadi]

That's interesting. That's really interesting. I mean, even the process of writing a book, I think can be so powerful because for some people it can be the first time in their business that they've ever really sat down and spent significant amounts of time just thinking about their message, their clients, their ideal clients. What exactly are these people struggling with? How exactly do I want to speak to that? What do I want to teach them? What do I want to tell them? How do I want to inspire them? And it takes many hours to write a book. So spending that time in that deep thought place can really change how you run your business, how you teach, how you interact. I had a client once who came into me thinking that she was just writing a book about the workshop she'd already been teaching for years. The process of writing that book made her change the workshop entirely.

[Mitch Carson]

Well, talk to me about choosing a traditional publisher. When I had self published, then I went traditional route with John Wiley and that was back and started. I got my, I got paid $10,000 to write my book proposal, which I did after or actually after my book proposal. I got $10,000 check sent to me. I never got any more royalties for domestic. Then I was written, then I was paid another 2500 through distribution through Ingram because the book was translated into German. And then I never received another penny. And I think I sold about 14,000 copies, including Germany with that. And it was distributed in Barnes and Noble years ago. And I also had invested some money in the airport bookstores. So that was back then. What's your opinion on that today, Ali? And this was a long time ago, so you're more current.

[Ali Machadi]

Yeah, I mean traditional publishing is still a really great option for some people. The problem, of course, is that it's very limited in terms of access. You know, I like to say that book publishing, in book publishing, traditional publishers are like the Olympics or the major leagues of book publishing, if you will. And only a tiny percentage of the large number of very talented people out there. Right. Think about major leagues. You have people playing in farm leagues, you have people playing in the minor leagues, really talented people that never make it to the majors because only such a small percentage can. And traditional publishing is kind of the same thing. If you are someone who has a large enough platform, if you are someone who is lucky and has some good contacts, if you are someone who has a wonderful network of connections that can help you boost the signal, you have an idea that's really timely and really sticky. Traditional publishing can be amazing because it can amplify you to the national stage and even beyond that, the international stage. Like you mentioned, books can be be translated and sold in other countries. It's just that many, many, many people are not at that level. And that's okay, because now, unlike probably when you first published, the options for independent publishing are incredible. There's so much available, so many today. Outlets, ways to get publicity, ways to get distribution, ways to get translation. You can do almost everything a traditional publisher would do for you. You yourself, it's a different level. Everything is to scale, of course, but you can have a very similar experience and you can have an incredibly fulfilling journey with your book. You can reach people, you can change people's lives. You can sell books. You know, like you just mentioned a few great examples. The book can do amazing things for you to get you opportunities to do more with your business and just with your life in general. And it doesn't have to be with a traditional publisher. So people have options. They shouldn't feel like. Like traditional publishing is only real publishing. I hate when people say that, like, if you're not traditionally published, you're not a real author. It's ridiculous.

[Mitch Carson]

Well, I thought that way until I stopped thinking that way because I was with a major publisher and I would poo poo anybody writing their own book. And. But it also, back then, in order to get accepted into the airport bookstores, Walden, I think, is the. Was the book outlet. It's owned by Walden Books. You had to go through a major publisher back then. This is 2008. I don't know what the story is today. Is that still the case?

[Ali Machadi]

Yeah, that's, you know, that's one of the things I'm talking about as far as scale. There are some opportunities that are really only available to traditionally published authors. Now, every once in a while, you'll hear a story of some indie author who broke through, right? Some indie author who made it onto the New York Times list, some indie author who made it into the airport bookstores. But that's pretty rare most of the time. Channels like Barnes and Noble. Right. The big block, Source, Costco, those kinds of places. Airport bookstores, mainstream tv, mainstream media. Most of those places prefer to work with traditionally published authors and those doors are generally closed to indie authors.

[Mitch Carson]

And I've heard of people marketing their books on TikTok. I thought it was for dancing girls, but yeah, trying to show their talents of their latest moves, but it's not. Is that the case? Do you get them on TikTok today?

[Ali Machadi]

So they actually call it Book Talk because there is such a huge community of authors and book fans and readers on TikTok that. Yeah, there are, there are people now again, everything is dependent on some types of books. Very serious nonfiction, literary fiction doesn't do as well in that format. Yeah, but if you're writing like, if you're writing fiction, if you're writing ya, if you're writing genre fiction. Colleen Hoover is a very popular, huge best selling novelist right now. Her career was launched on TikTok. It was because of people virally finding her work and loving her work. I believe she was independently published at first and it grew into such a huge fan base that now, I mean they just made. They just made a movie out of one of her novels. Right. It ends with us. Came out not too long ago.

[Mitch Carson]

Oh, okay.

[Ali Machadi]

Yeah.

[Mitch Carson]

I'm not familiar with that author, but I'll take your word for it.

[Ali Machadi]

Yeah. Oh yeah, Huge, huge best selling author.

[Mitch Carson]

So it's better. So TikTok is more in line with fiction writers?

[Ali Machadi]

Mostly, yes. Mostly fiction people tend to get really good results and like I said, like more very targeted genre fiction. So knowing that who your readers are romantasy certain types of romcom type stories, cozy mysteries. So there are like, are certain types of books that are doing really well on book.

[Mitch Carson]

Okay, I know nothing about those categories you mentioned. I don't think I've read fiction in years. You know, I used to read some Tom Clancy and. But that's more serious fiction based on some. I mean it was an education. Reading any of his books. I don't know if you've read his, but that, that genre doesn't do well on Tik Tok. Where, where does social media play into your marketing with your authors today?

[Ali Machadi]

I'll be really honest with you, Mitch. We don't do a lot of social media marketing. I know that.

[Mitch Carson]

Okay. Yeah.

[Ali Machadi]

I mean people have very differing opinions on this. I feel like social media is kind of a hate love situation for most authors and a lot of people that come to us. One of the first things they Ask is, do I have to be on social media?

[Mitch Carson]

Yeah, I see. I would be annoyed to have to go on the TikTok.

[Ali Machadi]

And that's what I tell them. I said, look, social media, if you're using social media, if you already are using it and you have connections and you have a platform, absolutely, you can be strategic about social media, grow your reach. It can be a wonderful tool for selling books. It can. But if you don't like using it now and you're already not using it, you're either gonna fall off the wagon real fast or you're gonna hate it. And your stuff is never gonna be that good because that energy is going to come across being forced.

[Mitch Carson]

Okay.

[Ali Machadi]

You don't. Okay. I just feel like there are so many other ways to market books these days that if you truly don't like social media, there's no reason to force yourself to do it.

[Mitch Carson]

Okay. Where do you take people? They've gone through the process. They're ready to launch. New York Times bestseller is a pipe dream for most or a lot of money to spend. I know with the numbers I've heard 8 to 10,000 books need to be sold through various channels within a week. The speculated algorithm. Nobody knows exactly unless the people who work for New York Times. I'm sure they've got a very strong ironclad NDA that will preclude them from sharing what that is. But people have tried to reverse engineer it. Absent that, I don't know if you offer New York Times bestselling services, but for the most of your clients that come through fiction or nonfiction, what's the plan? What's the next step? How do they create some sales and traction?

[Ali Machadi]

Yeah. So depending on where the author is at, we have two sort of options. And then of course, beyond what we offer directly. I have a network of folks because I really feel like it's important to help people find the best fit. And the honest truth is we're not always the best fit. So I'm perfectly happy if we've been editing someone's book and we've helped them to publish the book, if I think there's someone else with a marketing tactic or a marketing technique that's going to be a better fit for their particular audience or their particular goals, I'm happy to make that introduction. But as far as what we do, if a client does not have an existing audience, if they don't have a mailing list, they don't have a large reach, they don't have a large network, what's Most important, to focus on when that book publishes is foundational stuff. So any of the higher level marketing they might do later on, what's going to happen is people are going to come to check out the book on Amazon, right? If they come to check out the book on Amazon and it has two reviews and one of them is from the author's mother, right. They're not going to be very impressed. So that's what our package focuses on. We focus on getting a large number of positive reviews as quickly as possible. We focus on introducing the author, we do some research to find other authors in their category who are speaking to the same audience so that we can make some introductions and hopefully get some endorsements from those authors, possibly some cross promotion opportunities.

[Mitch Carson]

That's a nice tip. Okay, very good tip, Allie.

[Ali Machadi]

If they, depending on the type of book, if it's a memoir or nonfiction, we might steer them towards doing some podcasts, certainly getting out there and talking about the book and sharing their story. We might focus on getting the book onto platforms like NetGalley, which is where a lot of people who do book reviews hang out and use that to get the book into the hands of influencers or book bloggers, people who do reviews, you know, professionally or even just as a hobby, but routinely and seriously. So we're just trying to get the book out there into the hands of the right people to try to get those reviews. And we're looking very specifically at the first 30 days of the book's life because as you mentioned, you know, the New York Times algorithm, Amazon also has this sort of mysterious algorithm that people we know some things about, but we don't know exactly how it works. But one of the things that we do know is when a book publishes, those first 30 days are really crucial. And if you get a lot of the kind of activity on your book that Amazon wants to see, people landing on the page, people converting to buy or download the book, and people posting positive reviews. When that happens a lot in the first 30 days, Amazon itself pays attention. And then you start to get the organic boost of Amazon's marketing. Things you can't even buy Amazon will start to do like recommending your book to other people, like putting your book in emails that they send out to people.

[Mitch Carson]

Wow.

[Ali Machadi]

So if you can make that happen, you can start to get a little, you know, momentum going for your book even beyond what you're doing yourself. So that's really what we try to focus on. And then there are lots of other marketing tactics that people will do, like Advertising. I get lots of questions.

[Mitch Carson]

I was going to ask you about that. That was my next question. Is that, is that useful?

[Ali Machadi]

Yeah, ads are absolutely useful, but in my opinion they're not a first tier approach. So it's more important to get those endorsements, to get those reviews, to get some good rankings. Basically have something good going on the page so that when you run an ad and people click through to check out the book, they actually convert. You can spend a lot of money on ads and have a really great ad that drives traffic, but if what they see when they get to your page, they doesn't convert them, you've wasted that time and money. So you get that foundational piece in place first and then. Absolutely. Ads can be a really important part of a long term success.

[Mitch Carson]

What is the magic number of reviews needed for where people take you seriously? You said two reviews and you squished your face.

[Ali Machadi]

Yeah, yeah. So bare, bare minimum we say is 25. Ideally it's 50. If you get 50 reviews minimum in the first 30 days, that can start to make a lot of things happen.

[Mitch Carson]

50 reviews, wow, that's quite a number. I mean, that shows that, okay, you're in the game. Seriously, a content important.

[Ali Machadi]

Are you talking about the advertisements for Amazon? Yeah, we haven't really experimented with that a whole lot. I've seen it done nicely for some books. I haven't seen any good data as far as, you know, does it really earn the money back? Does it really make a difference? So I'm not 100% clear on that, but certainly if you've done all the other foundational things and you have a little extra money, it's not a bad thing to experiment with.

[Mitch Carson]

And what about you? You mentioned NetGalley as a source and there are some other outlets out there that people have mentioned. Audiobooks. Do you recommend all formats? Do you also recommend that people do book tours?

[Ali Machadi]

So audiobooks, I think can be wonderful. Audio is a growing market. It's a huge growing market. It's something like, I think last year it was something like 250% over the year before. The pandemic was a really interesting moment for audiobooks. Lots and lots of people turned to audio that really never had before. I think because we were all so exhausted at looking at screens all day. So people wanted to listen to something instead. And it really hasn't died off. So yeah, audio is a huge market for books. Most books, not all, but most books lend themselves really well to audio. Again, it's not something we typically recommend in the first Tier just from a budget perspective, too. Do a really good audiobook. You know, it takes an investment. You. You don't want to just take your phone into your closet and read your book out loud. Like, that's not going to produce a great audiobook. So we will typically advise that clients do the print book and the ebook first and then follow with the audiobook not too long after. It's not a killer if you don't do it, but it certainly can be a huge booster if you do.

[Mitch Carson]

All right, well, that's.

[Ali Machadi]

That.

[Mitch Carson]

That's. Yeah, because it is growing. I know podcasts are growing. It's an auditory learning platform. And I looked at two major authors who sold or New York Times bestselling authors. I looked at Mel Robbins books, her books, and I looked at James Clear, who wrote Atomic Habits, and I examined what their pages look like just for strategic purposes, and I thought, they've done a great job. They've sold millions of books. Millions. What are they doing that's different than others because they were picked up by a major publisher? Or do they have a whole marketing team? What do you think?

[Ali Machadi]

I mean, kind of yes to all of that. Right. Like, so. I mean, you also have to think about. Yes, because they had traditional publishers, so they had that national reach. They had those doors open to them that got them even more visibility and more visibility. But it's also important to remember what happened before they got that book deal. I think that's where, like, a lot of people get stuck, because they see, okay, you get the book deal and all of these things follow, but they forget that you have to have a lot of success before you get the book deal. So I don't know a lot about James Clear and Mel Robbins, you know, personally, but I'm willing to bet that before they got that book deal, they already had a following. They already had been out there speaking or teaching or consulting, whatever it was that they were doing. They were already getting visibility. They were already connecting with clients. They'd been doing the things that they were doing for a while and getting really good results and traction with those things. So before they even got the book deal, they already had a very successful business and a very successful platform to build on or a really strong network that they could leverage, which. Which the publisher probably tapped into to help sell books.

[Mitch Carson]

Well, Mel Robbins is one of the top five podcasters in the world. I'm not aware of James Clear having a podcast, but his book is excellent. Number one, it's an excellent book. He really took time and he was blogging. Yep, he was blogging. So yes, he had a platform. So you're absolutely correct. I, you know, your, your, your stuff. I'll say that. Yeah. Oh, it's key. And then Mel, I believe was, she was in a broadcaster, so she worked in tv.

[Ali Machadi]

Oh, even better. So she really has media connections.

[Mitch Carson]

Exactly. So she had all the, all the boxes were checked with James Clear. I'm not sure, but they're two of the biggest authors. They're, they dominate Amazon. I just look at them as examples. So think, okay. Oh yeah, A plus content. Thousands and thousands of reviews each. New York Times bet you know, they've got the real Amazon bestseller badge up there. That's the real one, not like the gamed one that we talked about earlier. So they are, you know, at, they're at the top of the food train chain in the speaking world. Tony Robbins is top of the food chain. He's an example, you know, so it's, they're those people to look at. Okay. What are they doing? Right. But you've taken, you take people through the basics and then you, for most people in your, let's say, in your basket, you make it realistic. It sounds like you're a practical, realistic person.

[Ali Machadi]

I am. I'm extremely pragmatic. I mean I, you know, I believe in big dreams and I want to help people achieve big goals. But I think that the most likely route to success is pragmatism. You have to know what's actually realistic to achieve and you have to know what's actually going to take, what it's actually going to take to get you there. That's the piece that a lot of folks don't really understand because you don't know what you don't know. And we're always given these crazy success stories. People love to share the success stories but you very rarely hear all the things that happened behind the scenes to make those success stories. A friend of mine just launched his book very recently and he made a great comment. He said, yes, it only took 10 years for my overnight success to happen.

[Mitch Carson]

Exactly. Very true, very true. Well Allie, how do people get in touch with you?

[Ali Machadi]

Well, they can visit me atthewriters ally.com we have a blog, we have some great free resources they can download. Of course, if they get on our mailing list, they'll get a ton more resources. And I've actually created a special resource just for your listeners.

[Mitch Carson]

Oh, wonderful. Please share.

[Ali Machadi]

So I have a pre recorded webinar. It's called don't write the wrong book, and it is specifically targeted to people who want to write a book as part of their business. All these things that we're talking about, I want to make sure that we help them understand that not every book will elevate your visibility. It has to be the right book, and there's some strategy to making sure that that book is in fact the right book to help you achieve your specific goals, whatever it is you're trying to do. You can have a really good book, Mitch, you probably know this. You can write a book that is technically a good book that still may not actually achieve the goals you want because it's not marketable, because it's not really dialed in to your audience or what you want to do. So this webinar will help you avoid that trap. It's free and it is at offers.thewritersally.com amazingauthorities wow.

[Mitch Carson]

Well, thank you so much. You've been a great guest and I will invite you back sometime later in the year so we can then have an update. It's been great having you, Allie. All the best to you.

[Ali Machadi]

Thanks so much.

[Mitch Carson]

Thanks for tuning in to the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to MitchCarson. Com until next time, stay Amazing.