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The Amazing Authorities Podcast
The Empathic Edge: How Melissa Robinson Wein Miller Turns Trauma into Transformational Leadership
00:28:01
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast, where game changers, visionaries, and category leaders share how they built their brands, platforms, and global influence. Your host is Mitch Carson, international speaker, media strategist, and creator of the Instant Authority system. If you're ready to learn from those who've done it and want to become the go to expert in your space, you're in the right place.
- [00:31]
B
Jason Vandiver is here today, all the way from Ohio. Now, you don't get any more middle America in the heartland of the United States than that. He's got a Dutch name, but I think he's 100American, just like I am. And we are here to share with each other and share with you a welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast.
- [00:56]
C
Jeff.
- [00:56]
B
Jason.
- [00:57]
C
Yeah? Welcome or yeah. Thank you so much for having me here. Not welcome to you, but yeah, this is a privilege for me.
- [01:03]
B
Yeah. And you. We were chatting a little bit before we started the show about being involved in a family business. I was involved with my uncle's businesses at. At one point in my career, and I elected to leave at age 34, and I left behind a huge inheritance, which I didn't regret because it was the right decision for me. I was under tremendous stress, and our relationship was fractured, and it was the right decision for mental health reasons. Why did you leave it behind? Because you come from a very large dealership that you could have, I guess, taken over one day.
- [01:44]
C
Yeah. It just didn't align with a passion of mine. And people might think, like, gosh, that's such a cushy reason to leave something. But this business had been in our family. It's been. It's going on its fourth generation right now. And when I worked there, my dad, you can just see it's an extension of him. It lights a fire inside of him. And it was so clear I was not going to have that. I didn't feel right to. For the employees, for my family to. To do this if it wasn't going to be something I was passionate about. And also, I could see, like, that's what's possible with entrepreneurship, is I should have a business that. It's not like it overtakes my life, but it lights a fire inside of me and is an extension of myself, and that's what I wanted.
- [02:28]
B
And today, I mean, you've got a book coming out very soon, and it's going to be a bestseller because I know you're a marketing man. So let's take a look at it. Show us what you've got.
- [02:40]
C
So I've Got called Dream Driven. Step by step process to discover your perfect business idea and launch it this year.
- [02:47]
B
So there it is. Dream Driven and Jason Van de Vere. What, what, what formats is that going to be available in?
- [02:56]
C
It'll be hard copy, paper copy, Kindle audiobook will be coming sometime in 2026, but that will be coming at some point. Still have to put that together.
- [03:05]
B
Well, there are AI robots. Just a little side discussion. It's almost. You can't not have audiobooks today and few of my books. I'm going to go back and add that component. You, you speak for a little bit. This is AI today. It'll capture your essence and read the book for you. Because doing it yourself is a major hassle. I understand. And turning it over to have it available it.
- [03:30]
C
I'm. Yeah, I'll have to weigh out those options. It's interesting. The publisher told me it's always, it's always good to have a reason to rant about your book. And he's like, look, you're going to launch your book, go talk about it, share it with the world. But it'll be helpful if six months or a year later you drop the audiobook. Now you can talk about it again. And people aren't getting bored about like, why is Jason still talking about his book all the time? So I was like, all right, that sounds like a good enough reason to me. I'll spread it out and have two reasons to do a launch.
- [03:58]
B
So that's an interest. That's an interesting angle. I mean, I work in the publishing world. That's part of what I do is help people market their books to bestseller status internationally and move on. And because it's that important about building a brand, I mean, you're also a fellow podcaster. We. What's the name of your podcast?
- [04:15]
C
Goal Crazy. Go crazy. Don't go crazy. Goal Crazy.
- [04:20]
B
Hence the sign above your head. I love it. Goal Crazy. And what have goals done for you and your clients?
- [04:29]
C
So one of the big goals was leaving the dealership. And the first business I launched after that was I designed a planner. It's called Goal Crazy. So that's where that name is came from. Actually, where it came from is I spent seven months just interviewing people after I left my job. I was able to get connected with business owners in our area. Family definitely helped me with that. But I learned what they were doing to set their goals. Put it in this planner. I've been selling it now since 2019. I started selling it. So I got that business launched could support myself. My family got some rental properties, some up to 34 apartments. Hopefully can keep growing those podcasts. But it's just I think they're so important for a business owner because I think if they don't have clear goals for all the different areas of their life, their business becomes the only goal and it overtakes their life. I tell people like your business should be the means, not the end. You should design what's the lifestyle you want. That should be the end goal. And now what's going to be the business that'll make that possible? But if, if you don't have goals for all the different areas of your life, then the business is the end and it overtakes your life and you succeed. But you probably don't have the freedom that you so desperately wanted when you started your business.
- [05:42]
B
Well, let's go back to something you glossed over very quickly. You own 34 units or 34 apartment buildings.
- [05:49]
C
34 apartments. So I've got a good. Yeah, so 34 apartments. I've got three duplexes, a four unit and a 24 unit.
- [05:58]
A
Okay.
- [05:59]
B
And that is your now per your advice as a startup because you write it help people to find their ideal business. But you have protected yourself and your family which is growing. You're now three kids in and you're halfway to the goal because I know you're a goal oriented guy. Is that a passive income necessity for people is to have something that passively pays them or is that an active investment? Do you have to go and hassle with people in their plumbing, etc.
- [06:28]
C
So I have a part time employee. When I first started it, I would say more on the semi passive. Probably like every other week I would spend a half day was kind of how I scheduled it, doing things for my rentals. Now I'm probably on the phone for my rental properties once a week. It's very rare. I'd have to show up there in person. Something would really have to be wrong. So now I don't use a property management company, doesn't align with kind of the vision for the business I want. Maybe that'll switch at one point. So I don't want to paint the picture that it's just completely easy money. Maybe some people have had better routes with that. But I think it's been so helpful for me as an entrepreneur because my planner business and the coaching I do with it, like it's been a blessing so far but there's a lot more ups and downs to that and you know Maybe what's been working might not work in six months from now, but probably is. You know, real estate is very tried and true and I've got mouths to feed. My I'm the sole provider for our family and it's kind of like it gives me peace of mind to take the money put in real estate I've got income. Sometimes I can borrow one money from one business to the other both ways. E commerce business, funding real estate, real estate helping to fund e commerce projects. And it's, it's allowed for a lot of unique opportunities.
- [07:43]
B
Well, interest rates are a little high right now. Are you buying or are you just maintaining?
- [07:48]
C
Nope, I haven't bought something in two years. I mean close to three now.
- [07:53]
B
Are you financed on these or do you own or.
- [07:55]
C
Yeah, okay. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. No, don't have that much money. Yeah, very, very much financed.
- [08:00]
B
But I would presume or I can't presume. Let me just ask this. Do you are. Is your real estate play because this ties into business is your real. They got many friends that do what you do in California and other states. Do you see your leveraged. Do you make sure you're not as covered or are you playing the capital gained to sell at some point?
- [08:20]
C
No, mine is pretty, pretty conservative. Like I'll normally do 25 down. I've done 20 year loans on all my properties. Most gurus probably tell you not to do that. Maybe guru is not the right word, but I actually want to have my real estate paid off. Maybe that'll change. But like I'm 30 years old right now and I'm on track to have most of my rentals paid off by the time I'm like 45 years old, which to me is really attractive just for kind of what I want to be able to pass down to our kids the lifestyle I want in the future. That might change. Maybe I'll be on your podcast again in three years and I'll be like, nope, refinanced it all for 30 years and bought a bunch more properties. But that's where I'm at now.
- [09:00]
B
No, I think it's a smart strategy you're looking at. Okay, don't have the worry of, of doing this. You know, I live in Thailand, but I go back and forth to Vegas to, to run my show while I'm there. And Thai people buy their properties typically outright. Their mindset is as I, I've got somebody I know who she owns a, an employee delivery service where she delivers employees to factories, picks them up at a location and carries them, you know, 14 vehicle, and it's got about 20 vehicles that does that. During the pandemic, she did not have to worry because her cars were paid for. The vans, the minivans, like you were talking about minivans before we started recording. The minivans were paid for and if she had been on payments with those and leveraged the autos to expand the fleet, she would have been in a world of hurt.
- [09:59]
C
Yeah.
- [10:00]
B
And there, there's something for that. Now I know that some people. I have a friend who's in the property business and he will not put an Airbnb or a tenant in. He won't put a tenant in. He says, what if we have a pandemic again? You can't kick him out and they can stop paying rent. Did you, did you endure that?
- [10:17]
C
Because of COVID I was very lucky with that. I had all my tenants pay. I, they didn't play any of the games. I didn't play any of the games. I paid my mortgage payments on time and all my tenants followed through. I would say that was blessing from the grace of God. And my properties also, they're on the higher rent end. And I don't want to try and like stereotype different types of people, but like, if I, if an apartment's running for $2,000 a month, I require that they make at least three times the monthly rent. So they gotta be making $6,000 a month to qualify for this. You know, people are earning seventy, a hundred thousand dollars a year. I felt like they might not have been as in a financial strain as somebody who was earning $30,000. Not trying to say like one is better person than the other, but I don't think it affected the type of people I deal with, as heavy as it may have affected others.
- [11:13]
B
And do you handle any section 8?
- [11:16]
C
No. No, not your, no, mine. They're considered luxury apartments. They're. That's just kind of the, the place I plan to, to play the game in. And it comes to. One of my long term goals is I would like to have, I don't know if my kids want to go into this business, but I want to have something that's like a, a really nice asset to pass down to our family in the future. And Sometimes those section 8 areas are in older parts of town, rougher parts of town. And if it's like, if it's, it's already an older Property, if in 50 years when I want to give it to my kids now, it's going to be really old and I'd rather get something that still has some meat left on the bone to pass down.
- [11:55]
B
No, that makes sense.
- [11:56]
C
I'm also 30, I've been doing this for like five years so this is where I'm aiming at. But I'm also still pretty fresh to the the whole world.
- [12:04]
B
You might, it might be subject to change as you move forward and find that maybe that's part. Now I have some people that have been on the show that talk about Section 8 and that's all they do because it's guaranteed income regardless of a pandemic. So they get paid very well and it is a different market and it's a choice. You've chosen the higher end and both are correct for the individual. So what does your book focus on? Tell us about your what can someone gain from reading your book?
- [12:33]
C
Yeah, so I'd say there's three main parts it's going to take them through. The first part is it helps them figure out their perfect business idea. And like the title, I want it to be a dream driven business. This should be something that attaches to a deep desire. A dream of yours. I In my experience starting a business is hard. It's just hard. I don't know if there's any way around it. So it's like if you're going to start a business, if you have a giant desire to do it, as long as your desire outweighs the challenges, you're going to do it. But if it's like you just found the next trending product to sell on Amazon but you have no desire behind it when things get hard and I've seen many of my friends and other people start businesses, they give up when it gets hard because it wasn't there wasn't this fire inside of them to figure it out. So it's helping find somebody figure out what's his dream business and helping somebody also answer the question what do you want to do with your life? And just like I said, we're going to create what's the ideal lifestyle, what's going to be the business to create it. But then after they get that business idea, it'll walk them through how do you validate that's actually a good business idea before you launch it? I walk through a handful of different strategies to do that and then it walks them through the process on how to actually get it launched.
- [13:44]
B
You take them through a quiz. Is there, is there, are there criteria that they must go through in order to identify or okay, this is my dream business.
- [13:54]
C
Yeah, kind of it starts with. So like my planner and what I've been doing for years was originally just helping people set goals.
- [14:02]
B
Sure.
- [14:02]
C
And I believe a step that people miss out on when they're setting goals is they don't have dreams. Now, kind of how I define dreams is dreams, they don't have to be realistic. Right. When we set goals, they want to be somewhat realistic. They're something you actually want to do. Dreams, they don't have to be realistic. They're just simply asking yourself, what would you love to experience in life? What would light that fire inside of you? And might be super unrealistic. Things like owning a house in every single state. It might be owning your first house. Both are great dreams, but they help somebody clarify these. Once we clarify your dreams, then you can set goals that align to those dreams. But if we don't have dreams, your goals don't have any meaning. Because you could set a goal to do anything. But if it's not aiming towards your dream life, there's no meaning. And if you don't have meaningful goals, people end up in what I call survival mode, where they're just working to stay afloat, they're just trying to survive. But when you have dreams, you can have meaningful goals. You can have a purpose. So first it's teaching them to set their dreams, identify that dream lifestyle. And then I do walk them through handful of different exercises of criteria of how to narrow down a business idea to make that more possible. And I can.
- [15:13]
B
That's fantastic. Yeah. And. And you're. And you. And that will be. That's available on Kindle, it's available on.
- [15:21]
C
Hard book, hardcover, hard copy, paperback. Yeah. Only thing that's missing right now is audiobook. And I, I don't even have an ETA on that. So. But hopefully it'll be coming to be announced.
- [15:34]
B
To be announced. And. And when someone wants to start a business, do you walk them through some of the differences of the legal structures they may or may not need to pay attention to some.
- [15:47]
C
I have a section of a chapter dedicated to legal, but probably it's breaking down a handful of them. But really, like, you need to get legal advice. I'm not the person to get you legal advice.
- [15:57]
B
Right. But at least a rough understanding of an llc. Okay. To walk them.
- [16:03]
C
Yep. But I think, I mean, I think that sometimes people get overly excited about that stuff. Like sometimes people tell me, like, oh, I started a business, I own this llc. I've owned it for four years. And it's like, well, it's great what are you doing? How many clients you have? Zero. Right. It's like the goal is to have a business, not an empty llc. So just because you have an llc, in my opinion, not trying to offend people. You don't have a business if you don't have paying clients. That's the main goal. Yeah, but I, I can't give them tons of legal advice.
- [16:30]
B
Well, and you, you know, this coming from a long lineage of a sales driven organization. Without sales, there is no business. You have to have clients. What are you doing? And do you, do you embrace AI Today.
- [16:48]
C
I have. I would think that's an area that I have to still grow in all of more and more with like content for my email, newsletter, drafting things. I didn't use it at all for my book. I'm actually blessed. I didn't start using AI much until after I finished my manuscript because otherwise I would have probably used it quite a bit. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but I'm glad to know like, nope. I wrote every word plus what the editors helped me to. But it's all been for me now.
- [17:22]
B
You chose. Did you. Are you with a publishing house or are you. Or did you publish this independently?
- [17:30]
C
So I use. It's called self publishing.com and they can either teach you classes. I don't know if you've heard of them, but they provide courses. Or they have more of like a hybrid publishing option where you cut them a check and they'll do the. I use their own editors, own cover designers. They list it and on Amazon and stuff for me. So hybrid. Just more aligned with the business. I was getting into the timeline. Much easier in my opinion than probably getting a publisher. But truthfully, I don't know. I didn't look into getting a traditional.
- [18:01]
B
No, I've heard about them. They're. They're an independent. I forgot the name of the guy that owns it.
- [18:06]
C
Chandler Bolt. Yes.
- [18:07]
B
Yes. Yeah, he's been at the forefront of this and certainly there are a lot of players in the game and that's good. And what are you going to do for publicity?
- [18:17]
C
Podcasts like this are probably the biggest thing. I'm blessed that I do have an audience of people already using my planner. So I've got close to 10,000 email addresses of people. Wow me, like me, trust me. So can help me hopefully get a little bit over the hump. But podcast is going to be a big place to start and then eventually Facebook ads.
- [18:37]
B
Facebook ads.
- [18:39]
C
Yeah. So I've done coaching in the back pass with My planner, when I launched my planner, didn't really know it was gonna be on the back end, but people then started wanting more. So I started hosting workshops and courses and started coaching people. Uh, when I started working with self publishing.com to write my book, I stopped basically anything in my life that could be paused. So I stopped all of my coaching, kept my rentals and my podcasts, stopped all of my Facebook ads, everything. But why this comes back to Facebook ads is I wanna restart that whole funnel with basically the book at the top. Like I give them the book, everything I can. I don't really have any new information yet to give them, but if somebody reads my book and they want help to hold them accountable, to be able to answer questions, how they implement it, I do want to have a coaching program for them. I just have to get that relaunched after I get over the. My launching the book phase.
- [19:35]
B
So the book is a, is the hub and then everything builds out from there. The spokesman.
- [19:40]
C
Yeah. Hopefully the podcast can give them inspiration, give them some more practical advice. The planner can help them really take their. What they're going to do with the book and bring it to life. Give them a clear way to break it down into plans and then coaching. If they want somebody to walk along that journey with them, I can do that too.
- [19:57]
B
That's great.
- [19:57]
C
So once I get that going again, which I'm hoping will be in the first quarter of 2026, then it's. It's a lot easier to run Facebook ads when you have back end programs to sell my experience selling my planners. It's hard to gross any money on a low ticket item on Facebook ads if you don't have anything to sell them after they buy the planner.
- [20:19]
B
Oh yeah, you got to have cross sells upsells, all that. And, and do you use a, a particular architecture? I mean, do you use click funnels or are you using Go High Level? One of those. Which ones do you use and why?
- [20:32]
C
Yeah, Go High Level.
- [20:34]
B
Me too.
- [20:34]
C
I've been a big fan of Go High Level.
- [20:36]
B
I am as well.
- [20:37]
C
I had tried click funnels for a while. I think Russell Brunson, genius. I was almost like disappointed in myself for leaving clickfunnels because I just like Russell Brunson so much. But Go High Level has a lot of unique things to offer and I.
- [20:53]
B
Feel like I've just tipped the iceberg. You know, it's the tip of the iceberg of knowing what it's doing and I'm of the same tribe and learning more every day. It's like, oh my gosh, it does all these things. So that's where the automations come into play for you?
- [21:10]
C
Yeah, I mean kind of like building out the funnels, the emails. It just makes it so much easier with those automations when it's all under one thing. Because I used to have like Shopify, another email provider, Klaviyo and then I'm trying to use Zapier to bring everything together. Some ads were going to click funnels and it was how do you merge it all together where go high level could put it all under one thing and. And it's just made it easy.
- [21:34]
B
Got it. Well, great. I wish you the best with your planners that. Do you use ads selling the planners right now or how do you. How do you market it?
- [21:45]
C
Yeah, in the past I did use a lot of Facebook ads. When I signed on to write my book, I just had to stop them because I stopped all my backend programs and I wasn't gonna dedicate time to the ads. But Facebook ads have been a big part of it. I would and Amazon ads, to be fully transparent with entrepreneurs, like, I've got sold 40,000 of these things. Probably the first 10 to 20,000 were not profitable sales because I had to learn how to do ads. I didn't have anything to sell on the back end. But once you could figure that out, it was a lot easier to sell things.
- [22:22]
B
So are Facebook ads your your go to source for leads?
- [22:28]
C
Probably my go to source for growing my customer base. I think a lesson that I missed out on earlier with my e commerce business was not viewing my customer base as an asset. For a while I was kind of viewing like my goal crazy business will make me money. But I invested into real estate assets and that's where the wealth comes from. And just recently, as I started to go on this journey of writing a book, I realized that no, actually my email list of 10,000 people is a really big asset. So in the past though, like when I would run ads, I was really just trying to get people's email addresses so then I could sell them planners, send them to my podcast, get coaching clients, everything. All the doors, not all the doors, but doors were open once I had their email address right. If I don't, if I have no way to contact them and they don't even know who I am, there's no way we can have a conversation. So Facebook ads to maybe like workshops, freebie giveaways, and then they could get put into my funnel to sell them products.
- [23:28]
B
So the list, the Value of your list has been great. That's where you're able to sell some of your backend. Do you host webinars selling other people's products or are they all focused on you? Do you covet your list?
- [23:39]
C
I've never done other people's products. I've done collaborations with other people where maybe it was another coach or somebody and they would have their offer at the end. But yeah, I haven't, I haven't done a ton of that. Do you have any ideas for me that thoughts?
- [23:55]
B
Absolutely.
- [23:56]
C
That I'm missing out on.
- [23:57]
B
Oh my gosh, it's, it's almost a list swap. I'm very big on using other people's lists to grow and to also reciprocate. There are people that may want, I mean, we can talk about a little bit this offline after we conclude this. But there are collaborations. It's a way to grow. I think you have to have your own leads coming in. But another way to do it without the expense of buying ads is collaboration. Like if I put together a summit, which I'm going to invite you on of podcasters. So here's my invitation in advance before making official. I'm putting together a podcast summit of all different podcasters around the globe and having people come and list. It'll build your list. It'll build my list because you'll invite your people to learn from others and vice versa and everybody collectively collaborates. And that way you spend no money and you've got a fresh group of 500 people to market your planner to who then can fall into your funnel. And conversely, products that don't compete with yours. People might sell something else that's unrelated. They might sell a weight loss program, for example. That may not be one of your, your strong suits. It's not mine, you know.
- [25:17]
C
Yeah, but I know you know.
- [25:19]
B
So a non competing category of person would be in there. It's a great way. It's affiliate marketing essentially, but it's a way of growing without spending money on ads. So I do both. I, yeah, I work in concert with somebody so we collaborate and at the same time I also, when I run events, I buy ads because I produce live in person events on how to be a, a great closer from the stage. I put on public speaking events. I've put on events in, in various categories of whatever sales seminars I produced. I ran ads and collaborated both because then my lead cost was lower. It's a way of collective collaboration where the, the price to acquire a client because that's the number that matters. How much are you spending? What is your return on ad spend? Roas is the number. And if you factor in free, through collaboration, paying this person fairly, then you're. No, your number goes down. Return on ad spend actually increases because then you're. You're doing that. So it's a way. It's something to look at, Jason, in my opinion.
- [26:33]
C
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you.
- [26:35]
B
Yeah.
- [26:35]
C
So.
- [26:36]
B
Well, great. Hold us up. Hold that book up again so people get one more look before we. Before we wrap Dream Driven, the step by step process to discover your perfect business idea and launch this year. And of course, you got the light bulb with the upward arrow. And it's Jason van der Veer, I'm sure. Yeah. You're probably very tall with Dutch ancestry.
- [27:02]
C
Dutch ancestry somewhere in there, but I'm 5 6, so I'm gonna let you down on the very top.
- [27:08]
B
But Vandiver.
- [27:08]
C
Well, it's a. That's Dutch.
- [27:10]
B
Yeah.
- [27:11]
C
Yeah.
- [27:11]
B
Typically, that's the only country I felt short when I went there. Everybody was taller than me and I thought, okay. Yeah. And it was just what it was. You've been a great guest. Thank you so much for your time. And we'll have you back on again after you release the audiobook.
- [27:29]
C
Yeah. There we go. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.
- [27:32]
A
Thanks for tuning in to the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to mitchcarson. Com. Until next time, stay amazing.