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The Amazing Authorities Podcast
The Long Game of Authorship — Thomas Freiling on Lasting Influence, Sustainable Book Sales, and Legacy Leadership
00:33:18
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast, where game changers, visionaries, and category leaders share how they built their brands, platforms, and global influence. Your host is Mitch Carson, international speaker, media strategist, and creator of the Instant Authority system. If you're ready to learn from those who've done it and want to become the go to expert in your space, you're in the right place.
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B
Thomas Fryling is in the house today. He's actually on this podcast with me as my authority guest. Thomas, welcome to Authority Amazing Authorities podcast.
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C
Well, thanks, Mitch, for having me. I'm looking forward to our time together. Definitely.
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B
Yeah. Now you've got a nice setup. I'm currently visiting Las Vegas. I live in Thailand, so my setup isn't as well laid out as yours. You've got two books against the wall and a nice logo of your agency. Tell me about those two books that are strategically placed because I don't think a man who with your background accidentally stuck those on the wall.
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C
And there's more if I leave.
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B
Oh, my gosh, your toboggan was blocking.
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C
Yeah, and if I. If I move the camera, there's more on the other wall too, so. Okay.
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B
All right, well, we'll start with these. I.
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C
Which ones can you see, by the way?
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B
I can see Black people can. Can't swim.
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C
Black people can't swim. That's a phenomenal book. A bit of the. The book title is very. It's a curiosity, right? Piques your curiosity.
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B
Borderline unethical, borderline racist, Borderline people.
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C
The book is written by. By a former retired combat diver in the US Military. And he. He. He is African American.
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B
Okay.
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C
And he was told early on in his career that. That he couldn't be a combat diver because black people can't swim. He was.
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B
Well, I figured the only person that could write this would be an African American. God forbid somebody of your melanation or mine wrote it. We would be vilified and fried and hung to dry.
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C
It's a phenomenal book. It really is. And it was. It was an honor to publish it, so. And it saw it sold well as well, so. And then the book next to it, I think, is that.
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B
Is that Solitary CEO.
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C
Oh, the Solitary CEO by Patrick Salley in Kansas City. Phenomenal book. Patrick is a prominent CEO in the Kansas City area for a public health agency. And the book is about time that he spent in jail, in solitary confinement and through as a result of addiction to alcohol. And. And it's his story about how he overcame that obstacle and got through it. And Then how he transitioned his life to, to become a CEO. So it's a, it's a really good book for those who feel maybe isolated at the top. You know, they say it's lonely at the top and it can be lonely. In fact, it often is. And that's really who the book is for. It's for those leaders who do feel lonely at the top and he helps them kind of navigate that and figure out what to do about it.
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B
Well, I'm going to break my anonymity. I just recently celebrated 40 years sober.
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C
Congratulations.
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B
41 years. Boy. Excuse me, I ripped myself a year. But 41 years, July 1, 1984 was my sober date when I chose to give up all of that world. And it was a major pivot point in my life. So I'm going to buy that book, read it and review it. Because we're in a club, let's just say one that has been in the shadows, that is now. I no longer am ashamed of that background. I overcame it. He obviously did too. So I'll have to respect that.
- [03:54]
C
You know, people, that's very, yeah, he's very open about it. And today that's helped him, I think, to just deal with it and process it, but I think it's helped him help other people as well. Right. Because he is open about it and to write about it. I took some courage to do that.
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B
I feel like, well, I would love the introduction. I believe in giving people to, to interview him because there's a much deeper personal connection than it is just interviewing another author or a CEO. But that, overcoming that. And I would love the introduction of the appropriate. So you worked with, you helped these people. Did you ghost write these books for them or.
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C
Some of the books we ghost write. Some we don't. I don't like to say which ones. We didn't, didn't because we're under.
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B
That's fine. Yeah.
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C
I am also, I'm a publisher and also a ghostwriter. So I have either published and, or ghost written for many authors over the years. Probably some that you know or have heard of, maybe read.
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B
Probably.
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C
I've worked with professional athletes, politicians. I won't say which ones because that might. Can't bring in people either hug me or slam the door in my face, buddy.
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B
Yeah, that's, that's the number one issue. When I'm overseas, people ask me, what do you think of Trump and his terrorists? I, you know, it's a two part question and I say, no comment. I don't live there.
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C
Right, right. Right.
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B
That's the safest compliment. Oh, do you like him? No comment. I don't. Because who I vote for is my business as a, as an American. I keep it private. You know, if I knew you personally, but publicly, I keep that out of the, the discussion realm.
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C
Well, the, you know, I will say the politicians that I have helped and a couple were prominent, were different in person, one on one than they were in the public eye, so. Okay, good way. In a good way.
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B
Oh, that's nice to know. So you, you serve. I noticed on your website you serve people of faith. You're strong in your faith, I'm strong in my faith, so they're possibly different than yours, but I believe in, in just doing the right thing and if I can help people who have. Have a mission get out there. And I presume if you're similar to me in that way, that's also part of your mission, is it not?
- [06:14]
C
It definitely is. And we're not a religious publisher, and some of my authors like to write about their faith, usually in a subtle or indirect way. We don't publish too many books that are religious books per se, but many individuals, especially leaders, have a strong faith, whatever that might be. So oftentimes they will write about it, usually in a subtle way or an indirect way. And I encourage them oftentimes to be subtle about it if you want to cast a broad net and, you know, reach a lot of readers. So. But, you know, I have, I have many authors that don't go there either, but I seem to be a magnet for those who like to go there in some way. And I do, I do place high value on it.
- [07:02]
B
And who else do you work with? Some of the people in the military.
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C
We have certainly published for active duty and former military. I think being in the Washington, D.C. area, that helps, you know, is part of the reason. Yeah, that helps. And law enforcement. Former law enforcement. This year we actually published two books by former FBI agents very high up in the agency.
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B
Wow.
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C
So. And then we also, over the years, have kind of developed a specialty in the health and wellness genre as well, in addition to leadership. So there are physicians, there are nurses, and others in health and wellness, including recovery. So I'm. But, you know, I have published in almost every genre over the years. Children's books, some fiction. I'm not a specialist. I'm not like a guru in fiction. I don't even.
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B
It's a different animal, isn't it?
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C
Is. And I don't even read much fiction.
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B
But.
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C
But one of our best Selling books in the last five years was a novel. So we've had some success there. I mean, you know, seriously, almost every genre over the last 30 years, I've done some work in.
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B
Well, Tom, who should write a book in your book? Who should write a book?
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C
That's a great question. I, I mean I, I have worked with so many different people of so many different backgrounds. I would say everyone, everyone should write a book. It's the, it's the only way, it's the only way to leave a lasting legacy. It's the only reason we know anything about Moses or, or Jesus or. I mean, you name it, you go back through history. If we didn't have books written about them or by them, we wouldn't remember them. So it's the best way to be remembered. Right. And I don't even think that I could, I don't even think I could give you a demographic or a psychographic of a best selling author. Sometimes people will ask me what makes a best selling author? They come from all different backgrounds. There's not a typical person that is or can be a best selling author. So I mean, my answer is everybody should write a book. I wish everybody could write a book. It's my job to help them either write their book for them as a ghostwriter or guide and direct them in the right direction. Because just because you should write a book doesn't necessarily mean you should just write any old book. Right. If you really want to reach and impact readers, there's certain things you should do and should not do as a writer and as an author.
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B
Okay, well that's, that isn't the answer I was expecting because. Well, and the reason I say that is some people say everybody's got a book inside. I like the angle though. However, you shared what is the last thing and you make game the example of the Bible and Jesus. We wouldn't know about it without a book. It is a legacy piece that will never go away. So in 200 years, both of us will probably be gone. I mean, we're going to be in the ground or in heaven, wherever we are. Our memory, our legacy will only be left because we're authors. Yeah. Not because our grand great, great, great grandkids will be talking about us later. Because they're not. We're too far removed. I don't remember anything beyond my grandparents. My great grandparents were mentioned. But then that's 100 years ago at this point in my life. And who, who knows? And then if you go back more generations, 200 years were gone. But if any of them were authors, that's forever.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And if you want to be remembered forever, it's almost a tagline, isn't it?
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C
It is.
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B
Want to be remembered forever, Write a book.
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C
It's the best way. It's the best way. Maybe the only way.
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B
Well, that's. That's what you gave, which was valuable, significant, and different. I've worked, I've talked to lots of people who are in the publishing industry, but your angle is very clear. This is a lasting legacy. It's not just for your kids. It's generational legacy. Decades. No, centuries. Yeah, potentially. I mean, the written word goes back how long? It's a maybe that's a couple.
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C
I mean, thousands of years, easily in some. Some form or fashion. They exploded about 2,000 years ago, but yeah, for a long time. And, you know, I like. I like to visit antique shops or used book shops, and sometimes I'll pick a book off the shelf that's 50, 100 years old, older, and I'll peruse it and I'll think, well, this is incredible that 100 years later, 200 years later, this. This person is still alive and living on a bookshelf somewhere.
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B
That's what I mean. Impressive. So what got you into this line of work?
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C
You know, I fell into it by accident. I didn't intend on doing this or being this. My first job out of college was a telemarketer for a publishing company.
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B
Okay.
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C
This was when there was 10,000 bookstores in America. There was a bookstore on every street corner, practically.
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B
I remember those days.
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C
And they would pick up the phone and talk to telemarketers, to sales reps at publishing companies. And that was my. That was my work out of college. And I've always loved books, and I was successful in that role. So I climbed the ladder. I stuck with it, and 30 years later, I'm still doing it.
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B
And now you. When did you start your own agency?
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C
This particular company is seven or eight years old.
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B
Okay.
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C
Company is. Yeah.
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B
You were working for a big publisher before this?
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C
I've worked for a couple of traditional publishers. I have owned previously other publishing companies. I owned a self publishing company at one point as well, so I've been around the block a couple times. My background is mostly on the marketing side of the business, although I'm a writer as well, but I'm not an editor. And so I have an editorial background. Editing, writing are two different things, of course, but my background is more on the marketing side of the business.
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B
So is that what Thomas Edison has a quote. It's 99, it's 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. Is that true for, for books?
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C
Well, I don't know. I don't know if it's 99:1. But I mean, you got to do the work, you got to do the hard work to write the book. You know, first of all, if you can't do that, then, then it's not going to happen, you know, so. But you know, I, I, I try to encourage authors not to sweat it out so much. I think sometimes authors, they'. Intimidated. A writer is intimidated by the idea of writing an entire book. It doesn't have to be Ernest Hemingway to help somebody. You know, I think we read books for two reasons. I think we read books to solve our problems or to escape our problems. That's why fiction is so popular. It's just, it's a leisure activity. It's a form of escapism.
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B
It is escape.
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C
But other than that, we're really trying to solve a problem and we're trying to find somebody else who's already solved it. Right. You're in the middle of something and if you can find an anonymous author who's figured out how to solve their problem, well, that's, you're going to read that book. Right? And what's great about it is it's anonymous. So you don't have to spill the beans on the problems you're trying to solve in your own life if you read a book about it. So if you can do one of those two things, if you can create an escape, help somebody escape their problems, at least for the time being, then that's a winner. And then if you can help somebody solve a problem and you don't have to be Ernest Hemingway to write a book to help somebody figure out how to solve their problem, that's great.
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B
Well, I mean, you boil it. That's all non fiction in most cases. It is.
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C
It is.
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B
What is your opinion today? I was published by John Wiley and sons back in 2008. I had my book in Barnes and Noble and Borders back then, before Borders went away.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And it also was picked up by Ingram to be sold in the German market. Got translated and sold over there. I sold about 4,000 doll copies and 11,000 domestically. A lot of those sales came through me spending money in the airport bookstores, the Walden Books. Is that effective today?
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C
Well, airport bookstores are still, are still a great place to, to, to sell a book. So my answer would be yes, but pay to play. Yeah. It is pay to play. It's not free space. It is paid space. That is, that is correct. But you know, I think that it goes without saying that bookstores are not the gatekeepers anymore. They were the gatekeepers. They, they held the key to whether or not a book was going to sell a lot of copies or not. And that's not true anymore because of Amazon and all of the ebook sellers. So the landscape has changed in many ways as a result. And I think it's good. It's been both good and bad for authors. It's good because it's kind of democratized the industry.
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B
Yes.
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C
And anybody can now get published. That's a good thing. The challenging part is a lot of people are doing it. So there's a lot more noise, there's a lot more competition. So you know, those, those can work for authors. It could work, you know, but it can work against them as well if they desire to sell a lot of copies of their book.
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B
Well, you mentioned you're more on the marketing side. What does that mean in brass tacks? Because it can be all over. I work in marketing, but strictly limited area of publicity on television.
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C
Yeah.
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B
That's one facet. What does it take to become. Let's, let's start at the end and then work backwards. New York Times bestseller is the pinnacle.
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C
Yeah, it is.
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B
How do you earn that badge?
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C
Standard? I mean, it's tough because it's a mystery which stores the New York Times is surveying. We don't know who they're asking. And the New York Times list is a, it's a compressed seven day period. Correct. Surveying stores every seven days. So it, it's tough because you just don't know who they're asking. Being on the New York Times list, it's really not an indicator of that. Your book is actually literally selling better than all the other books. It's not at all. There are a lot of books that outsell books on the New York Times charts that never get on the New York Times charts. So first of all. But it is the gold standard and we all desire to be there and to be on the list. And that's one. That's probably one of the most frequently asked questions I get. And my answer is we don't know how to get there. But sometimes it doesn't. Algorithm what's. Yeah, that's correct. Right.
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B
I was told it's 8,000 books in a week.
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C
That's about accurate. I guess that's accurate.
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B
8,000.
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C
Part is you don't know exactly where to sell the 8,000 books.
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B
Exactly. I mean it's some of it's online that may look there and then it's the physical in the indies come into play. Independent bookstores and who knows, I've heard of agencies that provide that service for about $350,000.
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C
There are some. And I think with some success, but I think more and more limited success. I try to encourage my authors to think more long tail and long term. If you can sell 100 copies of your book every month and you do that for 10 years, you're going to sell a lot more books than somebody that was on the New York Times list for one week. So I think that's more important, you know, than, than thinking about how many, how many copies can I push through in seven days?
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B
Well, it's an ego. It's a vanity number. It's a vanity badge. So speaking in that New York Times is out of reach for most authors. In most cases. That's a big budget. Few have that. What is number two? Bragging rights?
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C
So number two bragging rights. These. I mean, I see a lot of people talk about their book being a bestseller on Amazon.
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B
Right.
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C
Which is much easier to achieve because their rankings are live, they're updated hourly. Maybe more than that. So you only have to sell a lot of books for an hour to be an Amazon bestseller. And I think that's completely fine. It's credible to say that my book was the best selling book on Amazon. There's I don't know how many millions of books on Amazon. So if you can achieve a high ranking even for a day, that's something, right?
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B
Oh, sure, that part is there. But let's say, what about the Wall Street Journal? There's the USA Today. Are those still relevant?
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C
USA Today is still relevant. Wall Street Journal discontinued their list about a year ago. Right. Unfortunately, we had published a book and we were told on a Tuesday morning that our book was going to be probably number one on the Wall Street Journal list. This was on a Tuesday. I was super excited. On Wednesday we were told that the Wall Street Journal was discontinuing their list and they would. No.
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B
Wow.
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C
Our, our almost number one ranking was never apparent or seen by anybody except for me and the author. So that was kind of disappointing. But they discontinued their list, which is kind of sad because I thought they had a great list.
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B
What about USA Today?
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C
USA Today? Yeah, that's. I would say that's probably today. I mean, that's very reputable. Maybe, maybe number two in terms of importance. Publishers Weekly Publishes a weekly list and theirs is very credible and legitimate as well.
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B
Okay, and what about badges of literary awards to put on the book? I mean, you know, you have the international bestseller, you have the gold. But yeah, I, I don't put a.
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C
Lot of stock in those anymore because I think readers are suspicious of them because you have many that are like pay to play type of awards.
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B
Right.
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C
So I don't really put too much stock in that and I'm not sure that readers do that much anymore as well.
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B
A plus Content on Amazon important.
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C
Yeah, very important. If you can do it. Yeah, for sure.
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B
Reviews.
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C
Reviews are probably the most important. Amazon reviews, I think are the most important thing that you can do as an author is to drive people to review your book. I mean, I know myself when I go to Amazon to do anything, maybe not even on Amazon, book, a hotel, etc. I always look at reviews so readers do as well. If you can't generate 25, 30, 40 reviews on your book, it's going to be tough going, I think.
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B
Well, that, that was my next question you answered for me. It's like, what is the minimum you would recommend? So 25 to 40.
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C
Yeah, I think if, yeah, if you can do that, then I think that's sufficient. I think the, then you're credible with the prospective buyer, prospective reader.
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B
Well, I don't want to have you show your hand completely because the whole goal is and to utilize your services. But would you tip your hat for one, how do you get 25 to 40 reviews? Because that's out of reach for a lot of people.
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C
You gotta, you gotta, you gotta push your friends and your family.
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B
Okay.
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C
Gotta push them hard because people will say, oh yeah, I'll do it definitely. And then they don't do it. But there are also, there are, there are a lot of, on social media, particularly on Instagram, there's a lot of people that review books. You can reach out to them and usually they'll gladly do that if you give them a free copy of the book. I had one author in particular who really worked social media overtime and at the end of the day she got over a thousand reviews, I believe on our Amazon page. Yeah, it is possible. She worked super hard, literally individually reaching out to book reviewers on social media. It was some work, but it paid off.
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B
So she submitted her book to all these people who then would have to buy because there's a verified reviews on Amazon versus it didn't really matter to her as long as she had the reviews.
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C
Yeah, that's correct. Yeah.
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B
And you, because you say the marketing. Do you think it's important to submit and get a review from Kirkus or is that a big expense?
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C
I mean, it's not too expensive. I think it helps. You know, everything helps. Nothing hurts, right? Everything helps a little bit. So a book review on Kirkus helps. I don't think book reviews are as big of a deal as they used to be. You know, a lot of. In, in my former days, in previous days in publishing, the retailers in the industry liked to read the book reviews. That's probably not the case as much anymore. And I think that for readers appreciate the ad hoc reviews on Amazon by actual readers than they do the professional reviews.
- [23:42]
B
Okay, well that's out. How many. So you said the reviews, how many sales make an author create some traction because maybe the snowball effect kicks in. Because you mentioned how many reviews. That's good. So let's say 40, 50. Or to be legitimate out there, I mean, if I look at an author like James clear, he's got 40,000.
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C
Correct.
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B
Oh my gosh.
- [24:04]
C
Yeah. And millions and millions of books sold.
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B
Oh my gosh. The same with the, the lady Robbins. Mel Robbins.
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C
Yes. And you know, that's, I point to Mel Robbins success sometimes because she was not an overnight success. She has worked at that for many years, speaking and writing and she'd done a ton of work to get where she's at today. So I think it's a great of somebody. Example of somebody who just persevered, kept on pushing and it. And it paid off. You know, the thing is you don't know when it's going to pay off. Sometimes it's sooner than later, sometimes it's later than sooner. So, you know, sometimes you just got to keep on pushing in hopes that you're going to finally get over the hump. Right. I don't know where that is. I don't know what that number is. I don't know if it's a thousand books, I don't know if it's 5,000 books. I truly don't know. But it's all about persevering and believing that eventually you're going to get to that point.
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B
Well, what is a story firsthand you've experienced because you've got a very deep background in the publishing industry of someone using a book because very few profit on book sales. Very few.
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C
Right.
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B
But how has that been the hub to create these revenue spokes or.
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C
Gosh. I mean, I've worked with so many authors over the years. Some. Some more successful than Others. In terms of book sales, I will say that there have been occasions when I didn't think a book would sell well and it sold very well. And there, there have been occasions when I thought a book was going to be a home run and it wasn't. Even the best publishers, I have colleagues in publishing who have rejected manuscripts that ended up selling millions of copies. Even the best publishers don't always know what's going to work and what's not going to work. Many years ago, I sat with a pastor in a very small strip mall church in West Virginia. I didn't expect his book would sell well. And I think he's gone on to sell 40 or 50 million books.
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B
Oh my gosh.
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C
You don't always know. And that's when I talk to authors. You know, I try to encourage them in this way because oftentimes authors will ask me for a prediction of how many copies their book will sell. I can't predict it because we don't always know how the reader is going to accept the book or when they're going to accept the book or favor that book or over others. So you don't always know that.
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B
That is. Those numbers are huge. I was at it. Yeah. I was at an event in Japan three months ago, speaking for a friend named Ken Honda. He wrote a book called Happy money. He sold 8 million copies in Japan in that market. It's now translated into English. That's a huge number. The royalties are incredible. But very few make money out of the book itself. But what, what have you seen, case study wise, Tom, where they've used that book to either get speaking gigs or coach. What, what have you seen that works real well?
- [27:10]
C
Yeah. And, and I would say most of my authors are publishing books for reasons other than just selling a lot of copies of their book. Number one, if they're professional speakers, it definitely helps professional speakers either to get, get more bookings or when they do get booked, it gives them more credibility as they speak. Right. But I have a lot of CEOs or heads of organizations who use their book for publicity. It expands their reach, credibility and influence. It also helps them sometimes as a lead generation device. Some of my authors will give their book to existing customers, particularly in a large company. Some authors will. CEOs or heads of companies will give their book to staff members to help motivate them. There are a lot of different ways or reasons why authors publish books other than just to sell a lot of copies. And if they sell a lot of copies, well, that's. That's gravy. That's great. But I think that they're usually generating more income as a result of the book in other ways than just the royalty.
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B
Well, and you've also done some things to boost your own credibility. I mean, when I saw your background and who you worked with, I said, wow, I got to interview this man. The other is you write for or have contributed to some well known publications. How did you do that?
- [28:33]
C
Yeah, I write for Forbes, Fast Company, Entrepreneur Inc. Magazine. I started doing that many years ago and I love doing it. I love to write. So. And I usually do my writing in the early morning. So most of the articles that you see in any of those magazines I've written in the wee hours of the morning while I'm drinking my coffee. But I believe as a writer, as an author myself, it's important to stay out there. Right. And the best way to do that is to keep on writing. And whether you get published in a magazine online, whether you just post it to social media or LinkedIn, I try to post to LinkedIn every day as well. You got to stay out there. You got to stay in front of people.
- [29:17]
B
Well, that is, you've been doing this for years. But let's say somebody is listening to this show is newer. How do they duplicate the success of Thomas Fringe in terms of getting out? How did you get into Fast Company? How did you get into Entrepreneur? How did you get into Forbes? Those are huge names.
- [29:38]
C
Yeah, I mean I just kept on working at. It didn't again, it didn't happen overnight. It was one by one. It was writing, it was submitting. It was writing and submitting and doing that over and over again. It's, it's not an, it's not an overnight thing. If, if I. One of my favorite authors is John Maxwell. Sure. The story John tell told once where somebody approached him and well, actually he said people approach him oftentimes and say John, I want to do what you do. And his answer is, well then you have to did what I did. Great answer. Right, right. He's been a lifetime doing what he's doing and that's why he is who he is today. It's the same thing. You know, I've been working at it for a long time and. But I, I started with nothing. You know, I started with none of that. Didn't write for anybody in the beginning. And now fortunately I write for a lot of people.
- [30:30]
B
Well, Forbes has a program that I'm aware of that I looked at and considered myself for $3,000 you can submit four articles a month to be a contributor. You can't write about yourself. It can't be an overt pitch. Is that what are you part of that network or.
- [30:46]
C
There is a lot of programs like that. Yeah, I think, I think that people would be surprised how many opportunities there are, are like that now more and more all the time. Because traditional established media is kind of transitioning, looking for other ways to earn revenue. So yeah, I, I encourage your listeners to, to do some research on that. There's a lot of opportunities there. You might, you might again, it might be pay to play. You know, I think that's totally fine. You're still getting, you know, getting the credibility, getting the reputation, but you're getting people to read your stuff as well.
- [31:18]
B
Well, yeah, there are some. And I know Substack has an email newsletter is something I've looked at and people have talked about and I mean, fortunately in my position, you know, this is a podcast host yourself. You interview a lot of switched on people that have got, are doing the work. We're doers. That's why we're doing this and not scratching watching Netflix on the couch, you know. Yeah, is. Yeah, Substack. I've read about, there's Medium. Do you recommend that for authors?
- [31:44]
C
Oh, for sure. I don't write for either of those. I'm so. I've thought about it many times. I'm just so busy. I haven't done that yet. But I love podcast opportunities like this as well. I think they're a lot of fun and I think they're really valuable as well. And they're also good for discovery. The search engines like podcasts. Right. So I think it's great in terms of discovery and hoping that others will find you, discover you and then follow you.
- [32:10]
B
Well, that's great. Well, Tom, you've been a great guest today. A wealth of information. How can people get in touch with you so they can utilize your, your publishing services and tap into your knowledge and maybe learn how they can get into Forbes too.
- [32:24]
C
Definitely you can find me on LinkedIn. It's always Tom Fryling. I don't use Thomas on my social media. I'm on Twitter slash X as well. Or just go to the website fryling agency.com and that's f R E I L I n g agency.com.
- [32:41]
B
Well, thank you for the nuggets you've shared today and we'll certainly have you back in the future as a guest.
- [32:46]
C
Sounds great, Mitch. It's been a lot of fun.
- [32:47]
B
Thank you.
- [32:48]
A
Thanks for tuning in to the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to middle watchcarson.com until next time, stay amazing.