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The Amazing Authorities Podcast
The Relationship-First Sales Revolution: Joe Rockey on Trust, Truth & Transforming Buyer Behavior
00:43:12
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast, where game changers, visionaries, and category leaders share how they built their brands, platforms, and global influence. Your host is Mitch Carson, international speaker, media strategist, and creator of the Instant Authority system. If you're ready to learn from those who've done it and want to become the go to expert in your space, you're in the right place.
- [00:31]
B
Joe Rocky is in the house. Oh, my gosh. Joe Rocky Jr. He hails from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and he brought to my attention how old I actually am because I mentioned Three Rivers Stadium during my visit to Pittsburgh at one time in my life, and he said, mitch, that's been gone for decades. So I, I, I don't know what to make out of that, but it woke me up immediately. Thank you, Joe, for being here on the Amazing Authorities podcast. Now you're. I couldn't cover all your businesses that you've been involved in.
- [01:08]
C
You're all over.
- [01:10]
B
You're a prolific entrepreneur. No one's ever going to accuse you of being lazy. So let's dig in on your casino sales master book and welcome to the show, buddy.
- [01:21]
C
Well, thank you for having me. Yes, absolutely. In a lot of ways, this book is the result of building all these businesses because doesn't matter what business you do, at the end of the day, you got to sell something. And that's what the core of this book is, is how to use relationships and sales skills to, to sell stuff. In this case, a casino getting to love you and wanting to pay you well.
- [01:48]
B
I got so the casino component. Having lived in Las Vegas, I moved there during the pandemic in early, right after, I think it was March, April. I was out of Thailand where I lived. I moved back to the States to get vaccinated. And that's the whole story. I was surrounded by casinos which were ghost towns during that time, but they are. Las Vegas is the biggest entertainment, is the entertainment capital of the world. And immediately I default when I see casino. I went on and lit up. That's why I said it's a great title. Unpack that a little bit. So are you using the metaphor of a casino in the book or are there other examples?
- [02:30]
C
Oh, there's a ton of examples, but the prime example is walking into that casino floor that is rigged to overcome you. Yes. Sensory overload from the max. We got bells and whistles, we got dings, we got weird colors you don't see anywhere for some reason. There's smoke anywhere, but no one has a cigarette. But like all of these different sensory inputs that you get walking into any casino that are built to hijack your brain before you start. And that's before we start giving out free alcohol. So that is the starting point of how can you use relationship and sales skills to beat the odds. And that's the subtitle. So the full title is Casino Sales Master Proven system to beat the odds in Sales in Life. With the real emphasis on the life part. Because what I teach is so much deeper than what people think about when they buy this card. So I wrote it on the back of the book as the back cover. This is not a card counting book. That's what everyone thinks that up front. Oh, you just figured out how to do the math at blackjack. Well yeah. That's not that complicated. I'm not being the 20 millionth guy to write about that. What I'm writing about is how to get a place that has a mathematical rigged advantage, a psychological advantage and still get them to want to pay you the hardest environment to win. If you can overcome that dragon, you can overcome anything in the world of relationships and sales. And that's what we teach in it. To give a quick paraphrase of it.
- [04:03]
B
So it's a pre Suasion like you. Let's go back to. There's a great book by. Written by Dr. Robert Cialdini. He wrote Science and and Practice some years ago and then he wrote a book called Pre Suasion. It's exactly what you're talking about. Hitting all the senses before any transactions you already prep to buy bells and whistles. The lighting is a factor. The carpet. They choose everything factors in to get you ready to buy, to grease up your credit card, to grease up your wallet, to make your hands and palms sweat. So you're eager to transact. Now how does that. How do you use that deep understanding of psychology? I'm going to pick a niche because I know you can handle it. What does the car salesman do? Let's talk about one of the most challenging need. We all buy cars if we drive, especially in America. But that is. It's got a negative rap. And. And that has. I don't know if that category is dirtier or greasy or perceived to be greasier or timeshare.
- [05:18]
C
It's a good question. The trope is about the used car salesman. So let's. That one of the industries I serve a lot with the nature of this business because you're right. The fundamental starting point and I think that this needs a broken down and I will get into specifically.
- [05:37]
B
Sure.
- [05:39]
C
Is that you can go all the way back to the Bible. And the Bible has all kinds of different professions in it has soldiers, it even has demons, all the other stuff. There is no industry that is criticized or hated upon more in the entire duration of the Bible than salespeople.
- [05:59]
B
Right.
- [06:00]
C
So this goes back to the dawn of time. What I'm about to say here, and the reason is, is because salespeople are on commission. If they don't succeed, they don't get paid, they don't need. Yeah, exactly. So there's an incredible natural urge of, you're not getting off this lot unless you're going in one of my cars. So that's where the, the, the all the emphasis of selling wrong is born, in my terminology. I call that the 1960s sales method. Okay? Everything is high pressure. You're not doing this unless it's the way we want you to and deal with it. So that's the backdrop that we all think of when we think in sales. And this isn't the question you asked, but it's still around with us in many, many industries. We just don't like to call it that or identify it as. But it's still here. But sticking specifically in cars, that's exactly it. We come in with that answer of, these guys are just going to use me. I don't want to be used as a buyer. So what do we do as a species, a psychological growing species, for thousands upon thousands of years, we came up with a playbook. And that playbook is this. Pretend like you're interested now that I pretended like I'm interested. You're going to give me free information. All right? I'm going to make a test drive of this car and see if I like it or not. Step three, no decision. Ah, let me think about it. Or I got to check with my wife. I'll get back to you. Just send me an email. I'll get back to you. Step four, you ghost the salesperson.
- [07:41]
B
Right?
- [07:42]
C
So that is the dichotomy between buyers and sellers. I'm going to use you to get what I want. I'm going to do everything I just said, so you can't touch me. And that's the bridge we have. So how do you separate something that is oil and water? It's not exactly easy when you look at it from that standpoint until you back up and go, maybe that's how we shouldn't sell. Maybe we should do it differently.
- [08:12]
B
Is that called the light bulb moment?
- [08:15]
C
To me it's called common sense. We back Up a look at things from a different thing. But yeah, I guess, you know, it's like just because this is the way we always did it does not mean it's acceptable cost of doing business. And the notion of making people come to your car lot because there's only three options you're buying. Back then, I mean, you were like evil. If you bought a Toyota after World War II, how dare you. My dad went over to fight them and you're going to buy their cars? No, so, so there was no imports. You were buying one of the big three and that was it. And reality was they could act like this because in the 60s, really regardless of what industry you're talking about, there was so much less competition. Like if you wanted to get a car, you were going to Ford, a Chevy or Chrysler. That's it, end of discussion.
- [09:06]
B
General Motors. Yeah, maybe General Motors.
- [09:08]
C
Yeah, well, that's what I meant by Chevy. But yeah, so all of the General Motors brands. Yeah, sorry about that. But yeah, no, no problem.
- [09:16]
B
I'm a. I know exactly what you're talking about. Because my uncle fought in World War II and I, while he was alive, there's no way I could have driven a Japanese car.
- [09:26]
C
Exactly, exactly. So they knew this. They, they knew all the social parameters around this. So there's not a downside to them as a corporate level. If I force people to do a system they don't want, they don't have another choice. They need a car, it's not socially acceptable not to have one. So they have to play my game whether I like it or not. Well, whether they like it or not. So you're accepting the fact that you're pushing off clients, you're pushing off them, forcing to do them something that they don't want to do as your default starting Metro. And that's what the auto industry did and that's what sales period did. So what I say and what I teach is let's start with a completely different way of interaction. Let's look at what the worst moment is in the old way of buying in the 1960s method, which is that high pressure moment of are you in and are you out? And if you're not in, it's going to be bad for you. Everyone's been in a high pressure sales moment that can identify that. So how do we remove that but still get paid? Because at the end of the reality is we're still salespeople. We need to get paid. There's no cash flow, there's no business. It doesn't matter what you're selling. That's true. So. Okay, cool. All right, we got that. So what if instead of me forcing what I want upon someone, I could find out what they actually want without having to guess and without having to do creepy AI stalker things through Facebook. What if you could get this person to actually tell you what's going on in their world? No, you're laughing. That is what I am dealing with. In the last six months of my life, it's been, why would I need to learn this? My. I built an AI that can figure out exactly what they're thinking, what they want.
- [11:18]
B
It's removed. I'm just smiling, Joe, because you're right on the money with that.
- [11:24]
C
It's.
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B
Oh, bud, I get it, I get it. I. That's why I'm. I'm smiling.
- [11:29]
C
It's genuine. I get is also genuinely a bad idea. If you are out there thinking you're going to hack your way into someone's brain from an outside intelligence method of with using AI, you're destroying your company before you even start. I haven't written it yet, but I'm pretty sure my next book is going to be called AIs here because of your shitty boss. And that's. I can go down a whole rabbit hole with that. But it all comes back to this core concept. You have to treat people correctly, and when you don't, you set yourself up for major problems. So what I did was I took a very scientific based approach, and instead of asking the question, how can I get someone to like me, I asked the question, how can I not get rejected by someone? And those are two completely different routes that your subconscious goes through. And that was the starting point of how we were able to build relationship skills where people want to connect to you and want to open up, because if they're not rejecting you, they don't have a reason not to open up to you.
- [12:41]
B
Well, let's talk about that in the car sales example, because when someone walks in onto a lot. Yeah, they're walking onto a lot. They're there to buy their Toyota. Let's talk about Joe, middle class. They're there to get a Camry. I guess I don't even give them a camera. Okay, they're gonna get the Camry, which I think is the most purchased car in America, or at least it was for a while. I don't know what it is today, but they're there to buy a Camry. Okay. And their credit's good. They know that they can buy this. They have Real intent. But they want to get a quote, best price. And then the salesman's there. It's got sunglasses on, looks like a salesperson. Hi. Big smile, might have veneers. Could have it or not.
- [13:31]
C
Yeah.
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B
And it's got cigarette breath. And he greets them at the lot and he's chewing gum with his mouth open.
- [13:38]
C
Oh, of course.
- [13:39]
B
And this I'm, I'm creating, you know, an act semi accurate.
- [13:45]
C
You're describing the bravado that is common in person to person sales. Yes. You're doing a fairly good job at especially job of.
- [13:53]
B
And by the way, I sold Toyotas during one summer in college. So I, I do know that I did a large lot or 30 salespeople on, on, on staff each day. So I got. I, I am speaking from a limited level of experience, as in three months I did it.
- [14:12]
C
Well, I can also tell you the experience that you had then ain't that much different. The experience folks have today.
- [14:17]
B
Oh, I'm sure, you know, they're, they're there. And so how does, how does the salesperson overcome this bias? Before Joe Rocky comes in to buy his wife or his daughter a Camry. I don't know if your kid is old enough at this point. Probably not.
- [14:38]
C
But he better not be able.
- [14:40]
B
No, no, no, no.
- [14:42]
C
He drives his monster trucks. But that's a sort. So what. Let's just go through what it's going to be. I walk onto your lot and then big shiny hair guy. Hey, how you doing here today? Don't worry about me. I'm not here to buy a car. It's your natural first reaction to fakeness.
- [15:00]
B
This, of course. Deflect. Deflect.
- [15:03]
C
Yes, exactly. It's step one. It's natural. There's nothing you can do about that.
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B
I'm just dropping, I'm just looking.
- [15:10]
C
Yeah. And what, what does, what does that guy do? All right, man, got you. I'll hook you up when you're ready. Essentially, that's what they do. And then, then they let him wander off.
- [15:20]
B
I like the hair rub.
- [15:21]
C
That was good, Joe. I mean, I don't have it if I did.
- [15:24]
B
That was, that was the. That you get a yellow chicken on that one. That was good.
- [15:28]
C
That was. If only, right? So, yeah. What life would have been if I had had a mullet like yammer yaga my whole life. But anyway, so if, if you just change it a little differently. So their first reaction is to push away from you because you're bringing, well, you're bringing affect. But you're also Bringing an implied forcing moment by everything you're doing there. All of that bravado you talked about is designed to go back to the sensory conversation, to try to lessen what that eventual pressure point is when I come at you. That's what that's all for. The big smile, the particularly fake jovial tone. All of it. It's all designed to try to lower someone's gear, correct? So they naturally see it, they push it away. Okay, cool. If you would do something different. No, man, I'm just looking. Don't worry about me.
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B
Bro.
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C
Are you telling me that your entire thing is to walk around asphalt lots? That's how you want to spend your August afternoon?
- [16:39]
B
Come back with a question, deer in the headlight.
- [16:42]
C
Wait, what? No, treat them like a normal person. Like, you would never let your daughter tell you that. So you never let your daughter lie to your face and say, I'm just looking. Because you don't drive to a car dealership with all of the things able to buy just to look. So you never would accept that. So you treat them like another real person, you call them out on it, and then now you have an opportunity without any of this crap around you. And by the way, you shouldn't have any of that crap that we discussed in the beginning here. You should just be a normal guy or girl, depending upon your situation. So, all right, so you're here. Why now? This gets. Before I dive through further down this explanation, I want to point out something that we all kind of know implicitly, but no one ever wants to admit because it's one of these things that might not be socially correct, but we all have it inside our heads, which is when you first jump out of a plane doing skydiving, you have to do it with a trainer or if you're in America, I have no idea what it is in Thailand, but when you're in America, you have to be with someone attached to you who's a.
- [17:53]
B
Same anywhere. Same anywhere.
- [17:55]
C
I got you. There's. If there's two people standing there, one that looks cool, calm and collected, just standing still, you know, there's maybe cracking some jokes, but basically being a normal social person and someone else who's patent down all themselves constantly, just constantly looking at their gear and all that, the vast majority of people, without knowing any additional information, will choose the first person because they look calm and cool and collected, even if the second person had been a military trained person who has done thousands of jumps, and that's just him checking everything and triple checking as his process. But because the initial impression that that guy is unprepared or unconfident, you will not select him.
- [18:47]
B
That is your life's online.
- [18:48]
C
Yeah, yeah. That's a basic psychological thing. So one of the interesting things that psychology has proven is, and we're all relative, we only look at the world through a relative lens. And when we're talking about our internals, we always think that ours is the biggest. So my reason for wanting to be here on the car lot is sacred to me. I'm not gonna share it with you. Like we all have that, because the other parts, you're gonna use it against me at some point. But if I'm deer in the headlights, you just called me out for being in this car lot and you said, why? I don't have a pre built defense mechanism to answer this because this is not experience. This is not in the routine playbook. So then I tell you the real reason why. You know, you've rattled somebody, you've thrown.
- [19:45]
B
Them out of state.
- [19:46]
C
That's exactly. You did a really clear pattern, interrupted. But more so than that, you've now shown by you being there, done, that I have jumped out of this plane before. I know where you're at and I know the game you're playing, even though you don't even know how to describe the game that you're playing. So, all right. Why are you really here? Well, I'm really here. I'm going to change up the car on you just to make this for size examples. I'm really here because I want to be in something that's off the ground. My knees hurt, bending down to get into these sedans. And I'll be damned that my daughter knows that because she's going to put me into a home. And I ain't doing that. I'm not ready for that. Okay, that's a completely valid reason. Because you don't want to go to a home is the real reason you want to buy an suv. Okay, that's one reason someone might buy a car. Or you know what? I can't really get together with the guys. They just all want to sit around at home. But if I can throw their clubs in the back of the trunk, they're not going to have an excuse not to. We're actually going to see each other once a week. Okay, well, that's another reason. Or you know what? I just want to be able to pick up all of my grandkids and have them all in one spot and I need to be the chauffeur or it's never going to happen. Okay, cool. The key thing that I really want to point out here is that when you're selling correctly, it has nothing to do with the features and benefits. This is a lie that Amazon and ebay told society. That society bought. We don't buy because of four wheels and an engine. We buy because of some of those real reasons that are deep in our soul. But it's, as a salesperson, safer to talk about four wheels and an engine because if I start talking about, you know, you not wanting to go in a home, I might start thinking about, I just had to put my mom in a home. And, you know, that's a scary situation. I don't want to go to something scary myself. So we'll just talk about the leather seats. How about that? That's cool. That's easy. And so many people are not capable of being that cool, calm, collected person, jump out of the plane when it comes to their own internal emotions, let alone being able to handle someone else's.
- [22:04]
B
I like the why question a lot. That's the pattern interrupt. It throws their state into a different, more. You take control with that question. As a salesperson, I like that. Why are you here? Because it puts them out of. They. They thought they were going to get rid of you, and they weren't successful with that, were they? When you throw that one.
- [22:26]
C
Yeah, it's not. It's not even intrusive. It's just calling them out on the game and shows you that I understand the you're playing, even if you don't understand what you're doing. I do, and I'm willing to be real with you about it. And one of the many things that are proven is reciprocation. All right, you're being real with me, so I'm going to be real back with you, even if I don't know why. So all of us have things in our past that didn't go the way we wanted them to. Regardless of who you are, we all have something and we all have preferred ways that these, we'll call them little T traumas would get dealt with. You know, there's a whole spectrum of options, but I'll keep it basic for this conversation. Do I want to have someone come in, jump, and immediately solve the problem for me, or I want to be left alone for me to solve it. And, you know, each of us have different preferences for that, but each of us also inherently holds stars on us that our subconscious can pick up. They're not like Battle scars or burnt scars or something like that. But they are scars upon us that we can pick up instantly in someone else to see whether or not they're going to be in the vibe of how I want. You know, you probably have had the experience before of, I don't know why, but I can just connect with this guy. Like he just gets me. And you've certainly had the other end of the spectrum of like never talking to that guy again. No, not going to happen. And this is why. This is your actual psychological process of this happening. Full circle. Go back before how not to get rejected. Don't have scars. Your brain is looking for reasons to push you away. If you never give me a reason to push, I never launch out. So if you are capable of removing your billboard of scars of reasons people should be rejecting me, which you can do, one of the things I train my people, then no one's pushing you away. Then when it comes into, hey, you know, I've been there, you know, I had to put my parents in the home last week and she went kicking and crying. I get why you'd want to fight for every last minute until you do it. I personally never want to go to one either. So follow up question. You're going to spend $58,000 to not go to a home. And he goes, dude, if it takes it, I'll spend 350,000. All right, well then. Or whatever the case might be and you just dive into it. Because the real secret of all this is that when you go through this process correctly and there's no script to it because there's no script to running a relationship. But if you go through this process correctly, there is no big pressure moment. It's this guy gets me now. It's just about figuring out logistics to make it happen. So we're going to put you on financing or you're going to put this much down, whatever, that doesn't matter. That's just logistics. The point is they already trust you, they love you and they're going to buy this car from you despite the fact you've talked to each other for 10 minutes. So it's how you can completely change it on its head. And again, you can do it on a car lot. You can do it as a doctor about convincing someone to take meds. You can do it as convincing your doctor never to give you meds. You can do this in any capacity. Getting your 16 year old daughter to tell you where she's really going Saturday night, getting your adult kids to want to Talk to you again. It doesn't matter what the relationship burden there is. This will help it. And the cool part is once you get good, once you get better in one relationship, it carries over to all the other ones. So it's a universal life skill.
- [26:17]
B
So it doesn't start with a why question as the connector. I want to get. I want to follow the process so the listeners can take away with that. I love the why question that throws. That's what I was able to take away from.
- [26:33]
C
Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, I'm gonna think I might give you a wildly unsatisfying answer here. There's not a script to it. It's. It, it's. How would you. I mean, at the end of the day, it's how do you connect with someone? How would you talk to your friend? How would you talk to your brother?
- [26:47]
B
So you gave the example at the car lot. All right, so there's that, that could be somewhat scripted because the, it's automatic. What people.
- [26:56]
C
Sure. Yeah. You're all right. Because, you know, the first step of every car lot is I'm about to get lied to. Regardless of what is the bottom. I'm just looking to lie to you on the first.
- [27:04]
B
I'm just looking. So I like the why question. Well, why are you here going car lot to car lot? I thought that was a great script.
- [27:13]
C
That's not deep enough. You got to do the hook before it. You gotta call them out on their lie so they know they first have to realize they lied to you before they change and that they got called out online. Because if not, they're a three year old who thinks they got away with it and they're going to keep trying to do more and more and more. And then they ate all the cookies. So what, what you got to do is call them out. So in that case, it's really. You're just here to look. It's 98 degrees. This is an asphalt lot. You're the first person who ever just wanted to hang out here on an afternoon.
- [27:46]
B
So it's a challenging statement. You come back with, I, I want to see what the connectors are. So there is some.
- [27:52]
C
Yeah, yeah. So the first thing you do when you get lied to is you challenge the lie. All right? You challenge the lie to give the detector. And how you go about doing that is you challenge the lie.
- [28:01]
B
Challenge the lie. All right, good, good. All right.
- [28:03]
C
And then the next thing that you do as far as opening it up is. And this can be this, this is the, the skill set that Each individual has their own way of doing it because we're all unique. But you have to challenge the lie and then simultaneously step enough space back to show that I've been here. Like, I get it, bro. People lie to me all the time about this. That's not gonna, I'm not gonna beat you up for it.
- [28:27]
B
Challenge the lie and then connect.
- [28:29]
C
Yeah, you're connecting and you're connecting in a nurturing fashion.
- [28:31]
B
Got it.
- [28:32]
C
So you, you're a big bully who could take, take the lie and punch in the face, but I'm calm and giving and willing to, to nurse you to now that you have a bruised eagle. I'll take care of it.
- [28:42]
B
All right. I want to flip gears and then the, the rest, as you said, is logistics. In a car lot. That's the classic example of coming in with armor as a buyer and then having your armor removed quickly and then having connect and then walking through the whole logistics before you wheel off that.
- [29:01]
C
That car here, you roll off the lot.
- [29:04]
B
Now I want to bring in a little more challenge. This is more close to home. For many years in my early sales career, I was one to one sales as a kid. Then I learned the magic of one to many selling on the stages, you know, and then I was on the world's largest platform of a pitchman on Home Shopping Network, which I did for three years. So that's one to many selling.
- [29:29]
C
I said a lot of stuff to my mother in law, I can tell you that.
- [29:31]
B
Oh yeah, you know, Peggy eating bon bons sitting on the couch.
- [29:35]
C
Yeah.
- [29:35]
B
I had 5 million viewers when I was doing that. That, that is the super bowl of selling. Now let's break it down. Where I'm most comfortable is in an arena or a room of let's say 500 attendees selling a mass group of people to get up, pull their credit card out and roll to the back. Most speakers that I have trained and worked with fail when it comes to selling. Most are competent and confident in delivering content and teaching. But when it shifts to go to selling, many freeze up. You're smiling, you get it. What is the process you would suggest for someone in the one to many selling because their palms start getting sweaty and then they rush their clothes as opposed to welcoming the clothes and getting people to naturally, organically pull out their cards and buy.
- [30:35]
C
The scientific reason why this happens, and which I, I'll try to put in layman's terms.
- [30:40]
B
Sure.
- [30:41]
C
Is that while they're giving their content and they're being great on stage and, and teaching you how, you know, black anti matter works and all this other stuff. How we're going to be floating to Mars.
- [30:56]
B
Yes.
- [30:56]
C
Yeah. So when they're talking about that, they're in a headspace where they're completely cool, calm and collected within themselves. If you, if you could show a personification of how they feel, like right now they are riding one of the dragons of Game of Thrones. They are untouchable. They are in the strongest point in their life. I know all this stuff. I know everything about thermodynamics. And you guys are loving it and listening it up. And I'm seeing it in the audience. You're giving me reaction that you love what I'm hearing. And it's just building up this great happiness I got inside of me. But then they get to that spot in their speech where it turns. Now I am back to being four year old in my mom's kitchen and hearing her lie to salespeople. Hey, is it okay if we talk? Right on. No, I'm busy. And all of those extra memories that we've had since birth that we've been bred to as a buyer, to lie to them. But as a speaker, especially as a speaker, I've been trained to connect with my audience. And I know because of my experience from my past that you hate salespeople too. I'm about to be one of them. That makes me not happy. That kills internally. All of that great energy and power I used to have gets drained out of me. Because now I am the guy that my mom would lie to no matter what. And that is the psychological thing. Most of them will probably never be able to articulate that, but that is psychologically what is happening inside their brain and why they mess up the end. And the part you mentioned is incredibly common. I'm just gonna try to race through this to get it over with because they don't. I know they don't want it. Why would I, Why would I ruin the audience? I just built this last hour speech of them loving me and knowing about my product and my speech and all this stuff.
- [33:01]
B
Now I gotta sell.
- [33:03]
C
Yeah. Now I have to be something they're.
- [33:04]
B
Gonna hate because I have to eat and satisfy the promoter. Oh, my gosh, I better close.
- [33:09]
C
Well, that. That's exactly it. So the fundamental fact is they still think salespeople are evil. They're still living with the default playbook that humanity has, which is, I'm a salesperson. As a salesperson, you're only here to use people. But they don't see themselves as salespeople. They see themselves as teachers, entertainers who are given this great knowledge from stage and that if I'm boiling down to answer your question of why does that happen, that's the psychology of why they went from a great admired figure that the audience loves and they're seeing, loving to now I'm the guy that my kids or that my parents always hated growing up. No one's never seen, never, no one's ever not had that experience seeing their parents lie to a salesperson.
- [33:57]
B
So. So, Joe, what is the suggested process incorporating what someone can take away from your casino sales master book of selling to a one to many crowd? You've talked very well about the car lot example. Everybody can relate to that. There's a bias already when you walk in the door and they don't trust you and you, you threw them off with a great pattern interrupt. How do you apply that to a mass audience?
- [34:27]
C
You have to fix yourself first. I mean either one, you have to fix yourself as the salesperson first. That's the starting point here is, is that, and that's really what I teach throughout the book in the course is we teach it in five repeatable drills each day that essentially has you reevaluate and talk to your subconscious and puts it together in a way where you're helping people and you ultimately come out on the other side where your sale is a win win. And you firmly believe that this person who loved me 20 minutes ago when I was breaking down thermodynamics and now that I'm talking about you becoming a student of mine to learn more about thermodynamics, that it's still a win for them and it's not me. Taking from them and getting that shift in your brain is what happens. So the reality is, is that until you do that, there is no format and no formula that will last long term with you. This is why 90% of salespeople fail. Because they don't want to be something that's evil. They don't want to be someone that's taking someone or hurting someone or putting themselves in a negative position.
- [35:42]
B
Interesting. So how many different niches do you cover in your book?
- [35:48]
C
Oh, God, I think it's at least 32. When we count it out, we obviously casinos, we covered what T shirt contests, the 1990 Braves. Jesus. A big hate. And in fact, when I describe how to sell wrong, I use real estate agents pretty prominently.
- [36:07]
B
Okay, all right, all right.
- [36:09]
C
So it's ironic. I do that. I, I, I did that and then the first person who wanted to buy me a. Buy one of my books. I'm talking to him in person. He ran one of the largest private real estate companies in the America. And I'm like, hey, this is a heads up. You know, I'm gonna just be describing what some of your agents are doing. You better.
- [36:27]
B
He probably loved it.
- [36:29]
C
It's all real. It's. I mean, to dive deep into it. It's the way that real estate agents are built is they have legal answers to give them the reason that you can't go anywhere else. As soon as you sign an agreement with a real estate agent. And every state's different, so don't quote me on this, but the majority of them, you can be locked in for a year where you have to sell the house to that agent. And even if you sell it independently, they can still make a claim on what their commission would have been. So once their real sale is to get you to sign the agreement to list your house.
- [37:06]
B
Oh, the listing agent. Yes. Not the, not the. Okay, the listing.
- [37:09]
C
Yes. So then you're locked with them.
- [37:12]
B
Right? Of course. They all want that. Yes.
- [37:14]
C
Yeah. So they don't care about you. I mean, there's so many of them. Once I got the listing, I had one that we worked with that literally would send an email that said, hey, you didn't show up to the showing I was going to do for you, just as a reminder. And she extended it. But if you buy or sell this house without me, I'm still taking my commission. And if you don't want to, I'll see you in court. I've been in court successfully less 38 times.
- [37:40]
B
Right.
- [37:41]
C
It was, it was the formula in which they used. So, yeah, absolutely. That, that's, that's something that they do in that industry and it's all around us and there's a lot of government shielding that allows them to do that. But yeah, in terms of insurance agents, I talk about a lot in there. Obviously car. You can't talk and not talk about car, Apple, the. The iPhone kind, not the, the tree kind. But. Yeah. You're asking me to quote off all of the examples.
- [38:11]
B
Not quote off, but just to give you.
- [38:12]
C
But that's the ballpark. I mean, like, it's ranged. I mean, you gave.
- [38:15]
B
So it's. You discussed the gamut. Many examples. You just mentioned a few. There are 30. I.
- [38:20]
C
Listen, I should list them all in the first chapter for what you're about to experience.
- [38:24]
B
Yeah. And you break it through. But I'm sure that there are Common elements. And what I was able to take away is. Yes, I like the part, I guess there are four elements you take people through on a daily basis to fix what's inside, and then they can go out and fix inside. First, use a pattern interrupt, possibly. Is that what I got? Did I break that down correctly?
- [38:49]
C
It's not even always. It's often a pattern interrupt.
- [38:51]
B
Often a pattern.
- [38:52]
C
What it is, it's ultimately what it is, is it's a mechanism of building up your relationships through three prisms. The first prism being the relationship that you share with yourself. The second being the prism of the relationship you share with others. And the third being the giant cosmos relationship that you share. Many people call that the relationship they have with God. So that's how it breaks it down is through all three prisms, with the vast majority of the book focusing on the first two. So that's how it goes about it. Because, again, there's no script to do this right. In fact, you hear people about writing scripts and writing templates. What most of them are to do are to just try to keep people who don't want to be naturally salespeople and force them to be salespeople in a way that I've seen somewhat success upon. But that's not how you do it. That's how you do it the 1960s way. You really do it by connecting with you. And then it's like, hey, I don't know what it is about this Mitch guy, but I just want to help him out. I'm going to the two referrals I would never share with anyone. I'm giving to him. Got it. Or the two things I would never share anyone. You know, this is why I'm buying this car from you. I mean, quite frankly, I'm not going to lie. I like the Dodge I looked at yesterday more than this, this Toyota. But I want to. I want to buy from you. That's real life. That's how this economy works all over the place. So for years, they didn't want to recognize this fact. And economics was like, why are people not doing what's in their best when their own best interest, it's better to buy the one they want at the lower price because it doesn't account for human relationships. And like, no matter how much AI we try introducing into this economy, nothing will overcome human relationships. It's one of the things that all of us share is the need and ability to create meaningful and lasting connections and relationships. Which is ironic because most people have no idea how they actually build their own relationships. It's like I just get on the bike and I keep pedaling and I hope I don't fall over. It's why everybody hates high school if they really deep down admit it because you're trying to learn these new things through trial and error and oh, that didn't work. That was ugly. Oh, there's a lot of consequences here. I'm going to try something else different. I'm going to try something else different and yeah, sure, you might get lucky and find out, hey, this wasn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be or whatever. But trial and error is how we naturally try this. We find a zone that didn't get me in that bad of trouble and I can ego wise accept. And oh, by the way, that's how you built your comfort zone when you were in puberty and why most people never really stepped that far out of it from decisions they made when they were 16. Okay. Would you break all these barriers down? Your world will change.
- [41:37]
B
Where can people get in touch with you? Where's the best place to find Joe Rocky and embrace? Well, the book I would imagine is available on Amazon. Do you have a book site for it?
- [41:47]
C
Is there a casinosalesmaster Win? Because you don't build a book about casinos and not put it on dot win. So casino salesmaster win. You can get the book and all the courses there directly. And in terms of the social media connected with me, the only real one I do is link LinkedIn. So that's, that's the way you can find me. And I'm Joe Rocky on LinkedIn. So it's very easy, straightforward to find. So make it nice and easy for folks.
- [42:12]
B
Great guest. Enjoyed our time together. You know I'm, I. Here's the compliment. I'm gonna have you back again.
- [42:18]
C
Well, thank you, I appreciate that. Have you back.
- [42:21]
B
That I think is when you get a reorder. That's when you know you've done a good job, is when clients reorder. And in this particular case, I, I want to have you back in. We'll have a different conversation at a later date. Joe, been a pleasure. Amazing Authorities podcast. Our guest today, Joe Rocky, rocked the house. I know that's corny, but it works.
- [42:43]
A
Thanks for tuning in to the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to MitchCarson.com until next time. Stay amazing.