The Trust Trap: How Clay Moffat Turned Vision Loss into Purpose, Power & Profit

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Amazing Authorities Podcast

Episode: The Trust Trap—How Clay Moffat Turned Vision Loss into Purpose, Power & Profit

Host: Mitch Carson
Guest: Clay Moffat
Date: October 31, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features Clay Moffat, author of "The Trust Trap," who shares his transformative journey of dealing with severe vision loss—and how he leveraged adversity to craft a life of purpose, resilience, and entrepreneurial success. Hosted by Mitch Carson, the conversation traverses Clay’s personal battles, his philosophy of responsibility, his book’s inspiration, and the actionable lessons he delivers to blue-collar entrepreneurs and listeners seeking to redefine their sense of agency.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Expat Life and Values (00:43–03:14)

• Shared Experience: Both Mitch and Clay discuss living as expatriates—Mitch as an American, Clay as an Australian—now residing in Thailand. Clay reflects on how parenthood (and considerations over his children's education) shifted his priorities.
• Family Decisions: Clay’s wife, a chief revenue officer at a fintech company, may move the family to Dubai for better educational opportunities and career growth.

"Up until about five years ago, yes, it was very much that way [choosing where to live]. Now with two kids, homeschooling and everything, education is pretty important." — Clay (01:35)

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2. Overcoming Vision Loss: Adversity and Perspective (03:14–07:14)

• Vision Impairment Since Youth: Clay recounts living with visual impairment from the age of 10, expressing a nuanced view:
  • He avoids framing his experience as uniquely harsh, highlighting the importance of gratitude and perspective.
  • Nevertheless, losing vision in one eye (2010) and later facing potential total blindness deeply tested him.
• Professional Impact: Fear of job loss led Clay to hide his disability during his oil & gas industry years.

"I had to cheat to keep my job… And then fast-forward to last year and the vision in my remaining functional eye started to disappear." — Clay (05:53)

• Catalyst for Change: Faced with potential blindness, Clay was propelled to distill and distribute decades of hard-won knowledge.

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3. The Birth of "The Trust Trap" & Navigating Unknowns (07:07–09:48)

• Book Motivation: Clay wrote "The Trust Trap" during a period where he might have lost his vision completely, opting to self-publish the book on the day of his cataract surgery—assuring himself a triumph regardless of the outcome.

"It was a very real situation that I could have been looking into permanent darkness… If it happened again, I’m not going to see my kids again… It attacked every single possible realm." — Clay (07:39)

• Choosing a Book Over a Course: For simplicity and lasting impact, Clay opted to publish a book, demonstrating the importance of tangible legacy.

"Once the book’s published, it’s published. And then you can keep going, you keep moving, and you can have a good result with it." — Clay (08:32)

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4. Military Service & Personal Evolution (10:12–12:38)

• Military Background: Clay served 7.5 years, joining young and leaving after deployment in Iraq—choosing to walk away from the Navy after realizing it no longer fit him.
• Growth & Accountability: He describes his former self as “entitled and selfish and immature and a victim,” emphasizing the importance of personal evolution.

"I was a very interesting character back then… As sad as it is, those would be all things that you could equally label me with back then." — Clay (11:19)

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5. Parenting, Education, and Foundational Skills (13:00–18:55)

• Parenting Philosophy: Clay is committed to giving his kids a strong foundation, emphasizing analytical and emotional intelligence over academic credentials alone.
• Cultural Differences: The Australian view is less fixated on university degrees; options in skilled trades are viable and lucrative paths.
• Critical Life Skills: He stresses the need for logic, critical thinking, and especially social and emotional awareness.

"You can be the best critical thinker and the best problem solver in the world, but if you can’t regulate your own emotions… you won’t be able to interact with other people." — Clay (17:52)

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6. Social Connection in a Tech-Driven World (18:55–24:33)

• Face-to-Face vs. Digital: Mitch and Clay lament how technology is reducing real human engagement, especially among younger generations, and discuss the rise of digital-only communication.
• Cultural Observations: Clay is bemused rather than bothered by the expectation of texting before calling—highlighting shifts in communication norms.

"If someone got upset at me for calling them without texting them first, I’d just laugh and say, 'Okay, yeah, cool.' …That makes no sense." — Clay (22:24)

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7. The Science & Philosophy of Trust (25:08–31:03)

• Origin Story: Clay’s work on “trust” arose from his own self-discovery and witnessing patterns in his clients’ lives: most people are, to varying degrees, authors of their own pain.
• Neuroscience of Trust: Trust is a heuristic—our brains prefer shortcuts, putting people into “safe boxes” to conserve energy, but this leads to blindness to changes or red flags (“the trap”).
• Heuristic Pitfalls: Trusting someone means the brain stops looking for evidence that things have changed, leading to sometimes disastrous oversights.

"The second you put someone in that box is the second your brain will start fighting you when you start noticing deviations… That’s the trap." — Clay (30:06)

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8. Ownership, Victimhood, and Healing (31:03–36:39)

• Degrees of Responsibility: Mitch and Clay discuss the continuum from full accountability to victim mentality, acknowledging that people must own their part, even if an outcome was beyond their control.
• Therapeutic Insights: Clay shares that owning even a small part of responsibility (in traumatic events) can be key to healing, as it restores an individual’s sense of agency.

"The second you choose to abstain from that and release that, you are a victim, and therefore you have zero power to change it." — Clay (33:34)

• Difficult Conversations: Clay speaks candidly about helping abuse survivors through self-forgiveness and understanding their role—however small—in order to move forward.

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9. Addiction, Choices, and Redemption (36:39–38:23)

• Personal Stories: Mitch shares his recovery from alcoholism, connecting success to the choice of sobriety. Clay echoes the importance of recognizing and correcting destructive choices.

"All of my success mushroomed out of me making that conscious choice not to pollute my body because I can’t control it. It’s my kryptonite." — Mitch (37:14)

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10. Clay’s Work and How to Connect (38:42–40:05)

• Audience & Coaching: Clay works primarily with blue-collar business owners—tradespeople striving to break through growth barriers, often by first addressing limiting personal beliefs or systems.

"Their personal systems are limiting their professional systems. And so we modify and then watch it just go crazy." — Clay (39:55)

• Contact:
  • Email: go [at] claimoffat [dot] com
  • X (Twitter): @MoffatClay

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Rough is relative, right? If I’m going to compare it to kids that are growing up in Afghanistan… I certainly did not have a rough childhood." — Clay (04:57)
• "So when making moves about, okay, what we’re going to do with the kids… I don’t necessarily want my kids to go to college… you’ve got options and now you’ve got options and room to move." — Clay (14:38)
• "The foundational level, the core level—if you get that right, it makes the rest of high school and college easier." — Clay (16:25)
• "We are lazy by default. That doesn’t mean that you’re a horrible slob—it means [historically] we had to conserve energy." — Clay (28:37)
• "The second you choose to abstain from that and release that, you are a victim, and therefore you have zero power to change it…" — Clay (33:34)
• "My outcome is I’m an alcoholic now. I’ve been able to change my behavior. I take responsibility for it." — Mitch (36:51)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:43 — Expatriate experiences and family context
• 03:47 — Clay’s early vision loss
• 05:53 — Hiding his disability at work
• 07:07 — Catalyst for writing “The Trust Trap”
• 10:12 — Military background and personal growth
• 13:00 — Education, parenting, and societal expectations
• 18:55 — Social interaction & the value of human connection
• 25:18 — The science and psychology of trust (“the trust trap” explained)
• 31:03 — Responsibility, ownership, and agency
• 36:39 — Addiction, choices, and positive transformation
• 38:42 — Clay's ideal clients & contact details

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Tone and Delivery

The conversation is candid, introspective, at times playful (complete with “travel chicken” sound effects!), and grounded in Clay’s hard-earned philosophy of resilience and self-responsibility. Both men are straightforward and empathetic, blending personal anecdotes, tough truths, and practical advice for listeners seeking to overcome obstacles, claim agency, and build lasting authority.

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Additional Information

Clay Moffat’s book, The Trust Trap: How to Stop Screwing Yourself Over and Rewrite the Rules of the Game, is available on Amazon.

For coaching or collaboration inquiries, contact Clay via:

• Email: go [at] claimoffat [dot] com
• X (Twitter): @MoffatClay

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If you’re seeking actionable inspiration on overcoming adversity and building your own authority—the hard-won way—this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast where game changers, visionaries and category leaders share how they built their brands, platforms and global influence. Your host is Mitch Carson, international speaker, media strategist and creator of the Instant Authority system. If you're ready to learn from those who've done it and want to become the go to expert in your space, you're in the right place. Our guest today, Clay Moffatt, is an amazing authority and he's got an incredible story. And I only have Amazing Authorities on the Amazing Authorities podcast. Clay, welcome to the show today.

[B]

Thanks for having me, sir. Appreciate it.

[A]

You're most welcome. We are in the same time zone now. I've had about 130 guests interviewed. You're the first ever who's been in the same time zone. Same, same country. And neither of us is living in our native country. You being Australian, me being American. We're both in Thailand.

[B]

Yes, sir. It's a nice place to be.

[A]

Well, it's. It's awesome to be here because.

[B]

I've.

[A]

Lived in seven countries. I don't know about you, but I chose. I've. I'm at the point in my life where I get to live where I choose to live and live the life that I control and I would imagine but you could share it. Is that similar to how you feel.

[B]

It used to be? Not so much anymore now that I have two kids. Up until about five years ago, yes, it was very much that way. Now while there's all homeschooling, everything else like that one full blah, blah, blah blah, the education is pretty important and need to make decisions based on where we think they will get the best education. And presently I don't think Phuket, Thailand is the place that's going to get them that best education.

[A]

Are you contemplating a move back to Oz?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I do not want to go back to Australia. I left it for many reasons and while I miss my family and friends, I just don't really have much interest in going back. So I'm not sure where to Next with the Mrs. Work, it could potentially be Dubai for a few years. Ah, they have very excellent schooling there.

[A]

So they do.

[B]

That's highly possible. Not really enjoying the idea of moving to Dubai. However, her work will benefit and the kids school benefit to their pretty big reasons to make a move.

[A]

What does your wife do?

[B]

She is the chief revenue officer for a fintech company.

[A]

Okay, so they're, they're looking to move her to Dubai or is it another offer that will take you guys there?

[B]

No, they want to move her to Dubai, help expand the business and grow the business and etc. Etc. Etc. Because there's obviously a lot more fintech and brokerages and things of that nature in Dubai than there are in Phuket.

[A]

That would be a yes. I, if, if you were to. To make the move, it would be Bangkok anyway. It wouldn't be Phuket or Singapore, which is of course an interesting market. But I think Dubai would be a great hub. I mean, I don't know the particular sector that she in, but let's talk about you. You have endured a lot in your life. I mean, something that we take advantage of is our vision. And you've had to deal with some real challenges there and overcome them. Tell us what you went through.

[B]

So I don't see it that way, to be fair. I. I've had issues seeing since I was 10 years old.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Worn glasses since I was 10. So the issues that I face are kind of. It's just part of life, you know?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I, I will say that, that when I see people at the age of 50 or 60 plus not wearing glasses and not needing glasses, it just kind of rub a bit of salt in the wound. You know, you're like, man, come, but in the same breath. In the same breath. To be fair, there are a lot of things that you don't see that kind of even out the playing field. So for example, those people might have had an abusive father or mother committed suicide, or a brother that committed suicide and that impacted them psychologically. I mean, there's so many things that come into the mix. So it might feel like I'm pushing back a little and this, it's because I am like, I don't think I did have a rough go of it. It was definitely challenging. Absolutely. But I don't think that, I mean, rough is relative, right?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

If I'm going to compare it to kids that are growing up in Afghanistan or Iraq at the moment, I certainly did not have a rough childhood.

[A]

No, you did not.

[B]

There's been not a single thing that's been rough in my life. So I got to put things into perspective and I like to try and do that as often as possible because then it allows for a sense of gratitude to just be there and exist. Like, you know what? Like, look at how good things are and they really are. It has been absolutely challenging. And losing vision in one eye in 2010 meant that up until I left oil and gas field, I was in essence, living a life. I felt that I needed to cheat on all my medical exams because I didn't want them to find out that I couldn't see in one eye because then I could potentially be unemployable and then I'd be out of a job.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So basically I was living a life because I had to cheat to keep my job. And then fast forward to last year and the vision in my remaining functional eye started to disappear. Well, that, that was definitely challenging. And the risk of losing my sight completely, like completely became very real. And there was a lot of.

[A]

You.

[B]

Could say, inspirational motivation. Either way, they both kind of gel together in this one one vibe to do something that regardless of the outcome, would leave a way for me to accrue and distribute the knowledge that I collected over the last 15 odd years of my personal self development journey, in the last 1112 years of my professional self development journey.

[A]

Tell us about your book that you have. I see a stack of them over. And you, you wrote this because you had your feet pressed to the fire, didn't you?

[B]

So essentially when, when the book came out. So this is the book.

[A]

Sure. The trust trap.

[B]

Okay, yeah. How to stop screwing yourself over and rewrite the rules of the game. But basically, the short of it is I did face a very real chance, a very real situation that I could have been looking in permanent darkness with no way back. Oh my gosh, February this year. So again, left eye cannot see. Right eye was fading. And the only way through that was through a cataract surgery, which is a very simple surgery. But the last cataract surgery I had was the vision that removed from my left. Took the vision from my left eye and there's been no way to get it back. I've had stem cells done, I've taken peptides, I've taken experimental medication. Like I've done all the things and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to get my vision back and it's gone. It was very vivid and explicitly real that these things can happen. And if it happened again, well, I'm not going to see my kids again. I'm not going to see them grow up. I'm not going to see my wife. I'm not going to be able to work in the same way. I'm going to become fully dependent. I can't provide. So like it started attacking my identity, it started attacking my job. Like it attacked every single possible realm, which was not a fun thing to kind of get into. But by the same token, I was very motivated to get something out there which was the book I thought Maybe, you know, I'll just do a course because I can put. And then I thought, what a stupid, good idea that is. Then I've got to maintain a website. Then I've got to maintain this and do all this other stuff. So I was like, nope. And so the. The trusted thing of the time and seems to still be that way, is a book. Because once the book's published, it's published, and then you can keep going, you keep moving, and you can have a good result with it. So, yeah, I had my feet to the fire because while it didn't eventuate and the surgery ended up going as perfectly as possible and I got the best possible result with the surgeon that I chose to work with, it was a very real situation that it might not have gone that way and that once the book was released, because I released it on the day of my surgery, like, that's when it got published. So that regardless of what happened with the surgery, like, I would have something to celebrate on that day, whether it was A, I got my. My site back or B, my site was gone, but I published the book. So I've got something out there.

[A]

That's great. That's great. I mean, that you've got. This was successful because I. I can't imagine a life without seeing. It's. That's. That's tough. I mean, I know. Yeah, that would. That's something you said. You, you grew up with. You always had side issues and. But you've able overcome it. You were also in the military for a number of years. How did you pass the physical there?

[B]

So I can pass a physical in the military? Because at that point in time, I joined when I was 17, so straight out of school, while my vision was pretty horrible, it could be corrected. And because it could be corrected, it was passable. It's only a point where if your vision can't be corrected, and that's when you'll be labeled as legally blind. Even you can still see color. You're still. You can't get it corrected, so you're legally blind, then that becomes an issue. But because it could be corrected through a prescription, it was okay.

[A]

And how long did you serve in the military?

[B]

Seven and a half years.

[A]

And were you. Half years. Okay. So did you leave earlier than you wanted to or expected or.

[B]

No, I stayed longer than I wanted to. I was kind of over it after about three years, and then I signed on again to go to Iraq, and then I walked off the ship the day we pulled back into Australia, and then I Didn't return.

[A]

You'd had enough, huh?

[B]

Yeah. And I was a very interesting character back then. I was what some would call an so, you know, and entitled and selfish and immature and a victim. As sad as it is, those would be all things that you could equally label me with back then.

[A]

Well, and it sounds like you've grown since.

[B]

Well, you. People say you should be glad that you've done it now. Some people never grow up and I'm like, okay, well maybe they don't. I just knowing what I know now, that just be such a waste of a life, you know? Okay.

[A]

Were you married back then?

[B]

No, no, I was with the. It's a very strange time. I was with a girl while in Iraq. We came back, I ended up breaking up with her and then went and did something else. And so no, I definitely wasn't married back then. The first time I got married was in 2015. Okay. This is like 10 years before that when I got out of the Navy.

[A]

Got it, got it. So now you have a wife and got two kids and you got a different life today.

[B]

Yeah, that's, that's definitely one way of looking at it. Absolutely. It's a very different life, a very different focus.

[A]

Well, no, you, we were talking about your kids and you know, where you're going to school them and I, it sounds like that's a priority and, and focus as a parent.

[B]

Yeah, well, I think it's like for me personally that's one of the biggest responsibilities, right. To be able to provide my kids a better start, a better foundation than what my parents gave me. And my parents set the bar pretty high, so. Which is so strange that they did as much as they did for me and I ended up going so far off the rails that I need to come back in as high as I need to come back in. But they set the bar pretty high. They were very loving though there as much as they could be. They took me to all the specialists to try and help me with all these things that I was going through. So they, they did a lot of things and they gave me opportunities. They sacrificed a heck of a lot of money to send me to one of the fanciest private schools in Perth, which of course I wasted and pissed away against the wall, as you know, some immature little victim 15 year old kid will do. But they put a lot into it. And so they've set the standard very high. And so when making moves about, okay, what we're going to do with the kids, it. That's a very real Possibility. Now, I don't necessarily want my kids to go to college. I know it's a huge thing in the us so you've got to send your kids to college. They've got to be this. In Australia. It's not like that at all. Oh, no. Oh, complete opposite. Like you can do very well without going to university. So we're going to call it college, we just call it university. Right, right. Go to a polytechnic college, which is like where you get your trade, you get your apprenticeship.

[A]

Sure, sure.

[B]

And do extremely well. There are a lot of electricians. They're sitting on over 150 grand a year. Wow. Because there was such an emphasis on sending everyone to university that there was no one to do any of the trades. So now plumbers do well in America.

[A]

Plumbers.

[B]

Yep. All right. And, and it's fine, you know, it's not, it's not a problem. Because who wants to clean up at the end of the day? No one. So if you're going to got like 10 guys out of 2000 that are a qualified to do it and be willing to do it, they're going to get paid pretty handsomely. Now I'm suggesting that I want my son to come become a plumber. What I am suggesting is the whole education point becomes, okay, like you've got options and now you've got options in room to move. So choose. If you want to go down the route of an Ivy League school, you can go down that route. If you want to go down the route of flipping burgers and McDonald's, it's not really my cup of tea, but if that's really what you want to do and that's where you want to go spend your life, go do it.

[A]

You know, just, just be the best burger flipper.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. You better. You better be the best burger flipper, at McDonald's, mate, I tell you, you better get that burger flipping award.

[A]

So now what about your wife? Does she share that same thought? Is she Australian, your wife?

[B]

She is Belarusian.

[A]

Bella? Russian. Okay. And does she have the same view on education or is it different?

[B]

She, she comes from. She was a straight A student, she was a geek. I always give her a hard time, but she was very smart. Still is very smart, very accomplished, has multiple degrees. She very much values education.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We have differences on how the education should be delivered. Okay, well, very much education is very, very important and agrees that it should be a focus point. Didn't realize that I would actually move to a certain place just for the Kids education if it's of a good enough quality. And I think the reason for that is because she just did not know how much. I think it will play an important role in how successful the kids will be. And there are people that say, you know what the networking opportunities that come from being raised in the school with the right kids and they'll give you this opportunity. Like I went to a really fancy school and I've had not one opportunity given to me or one network introduction that's been made. Now granted, I also left Perth very early on and disappeared. So I've got friends. A guy I went to school with is one of the heads of international banking for Barclays in the uk. Another one of my friends. I've got nothing to offer him, he's got nothing to offer me. It's great. Yeah, I know this guy, wonderful, but didn't do anything. But that being said, I think the foundational level, the core level, like the primary grades and the foundation, if you get that right, it makes the rest of high school and college easier. And so that's what I'm looking for. And we're not currently getting that in Phuket. And so that's where I'm looking for a school that can really help both my kids excel and get a firm grasp on logic, on critical thinking, on problem solving, on social and emotional awareness. Because a lot of people focus on, you need critical thinking, a lot of people focus on that. You need problem solving. And I think those two things are massively important, but they are useless without social and emotional awareness. You can be the best critical thinker and the best problem solver in the world, but if you can't regulate your own emotions, you get triggered by everyone else. You're going to be useless to anyone because you won't be able to interact with other people. And if you can't interact with other people, I mean this might all be completely irrelevant in 10 years with AI, right? But I still believe that as human beings we do need to connect with other people. We have this instinctual need to connect with other people. So I think that the social and emotional awareness is a massive part of that.

[A]

So you get the first squeeze of the chicken. That is a key point of agreement. This is my confirmation tool, this is my travel chicken clay. And when you give a money making tips, you get the green chicken. Different, different sound, but that was a good psychological social point. We do need this contact. Like you mentioned, we could have done this interview had we been in the same city at the same Time. It would have been better to shake, shaking hands, look each other in the eye, have a meal. Potentially. That's what we need as human beings. We're, you know, in the same time zone. We're, we're what, about an hour flight apart?

[B]

If. Yeah, I think 10 minutes.

[A]

Yeah, something like that. Short flight. I believe there's an airport here in Rayong which even flies to Phuket. It's a small airport.

[B]

You go to Tapao, which is like 40 minute drive south. Yeah, perfect. Yeah.

[A]

Easy flight. A friend of mine used that.

[B]

It's like catching a bus. I don't like getting a plane.

[A]

Yeah, he, he got on it. He flew from here to Phuket to test to see if he liked Phuket. He was just here last week and he did that American friend of mine and he, I said, go check it out to see if you want to move to Jomtien or not and see. And he, he didn't care for Phuket as much. He said, I saw it all in a few days and he was done. Commented about the traffic, said he came back. But that I think it's so important to have that human interaction because a lot of. When you go to a restaurant today, I'm over, I'm, I'm older than you, but it's a different, a different engagement. And then you're probably observing people that are X number of years younger than you. When you see people at a table of eight kids, they're all on their phones, they're texting each other across the table. Where's the conversation?

[B]

It's happening in the phone.

[A]

Yeah, where's, where's the. Going outside and playing some type of sport. You guys played rugby and, or we call it soccer. You call it football or what have you. There's some interaction.

[B]

No, we, in Australia, we call it soccer. We very.

[A]

Okay. Oh, you call it. Okay, so we, we call it soccer also. I think in other countries they call football.

[B]

Pretty much everywhere else around the world they do. So you guys have American football, We have Australian football. And Australian football is football in Australia.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

If you're on the east coast of Australia, Rugby league is called football.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's pretty much played with your hands predominantly the entire time. But football, as in all of Asia, Europe, South America call. We call soccer just like you. Right.

[A]

Well, I mean, it's the same sport. Yeah, yeah. It's, you know, with, with all the big stars I'm referring. That is where I would want my kids to interact versus being on a phone where's the exercise? Where's the. The competition of having a physical sport to go back and forth and interaction? I think it's important as humans to have that. This has hurt us. It's helped us in some ways, but it's hurt us. And people get upset today if you call them without texting them first. Yeah, it's a weird protocol. You've got my number. I gave you my phone number. Call me anytime. You know, we're in the same.

[B]

I've never heard of someone getting up, so I'm not saying you're lying. So we're clear.

[A]

Oh, bud.

[B]

Ever heard of someone. And if someone got upset at me for calling them without texting them first, I just laugh and say, okay, yeah, cool. So anyway, this is what I want to talk to you about. And then just keep talking like, that makes no sense.

[A]

It doesn't make sense.

[B]

You don't want to pick up phone, just don't pick it up. Like, what's the problem?

[A]

Well, I had a before. I'm in a relationship now. But when I was single in America, I was back there during the pandemic. I remember getting a phone number somebody and picking up the phone and calling her. She's. You called me. I said, yes, that's why you have your phone number. Well, I'm not ready to talk yet. We have to text first. Like, what? I. I don't. I don't get it. It's.

[B]

It.

[A]

Like there are levels of communication protocols. Maybe it's an American thing, maybe it isn't Australian, but in America, that's. And I met that a few times. People want to text first versus actually picking up a phone and calling. It's a cop out of communication. I think we need to interact and there's a human component.

[B]

I will absolutely text if I think it's going to be just like two short lines and that's the conversation done.

[A]

Yeah. What time are we meeting?

[B]

Yeah. And then sometimes that too short line starts turning into conversation. I go, no, no, no, don't pick up the phone. I'm like, I can't do this. Nope. Let's just get it out. But there are times when the two lines is. That's it. Hey, when we meeting? Is this time still good for you? Are we doing this, this day? Hey, tell me what happened Here, here, here. Just quickly. And then. Okay, done. And then there's times when it just like, starts opening up a can of worms. And as soon as starts opening up a can of worms, pick up the phone. Much easier, much faster. And it's much cleaner to have conversation.

[A]

100% agree. And I mean the time. There's a place for texting. If we're in a restaurant and it's loud and you need to communicate with somebody, you can't take the call, get it. But there are people that are averse to conversation that prefer only to text. Maybe it's an American thing. When I was back, I was dumbfounded by it.

[B]

Did this happen with multiple people?

[A]

Yes. It's not a one off.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It's a. Cultures more skewed clay towards the younger generation. My generation, most are fine with talking on the phone. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a different. Different mindset, different expectation, different comfort level of communication. What I'm saying is they have gotten so comfortable communicating this way. It's their preferred mode of communication.

[B]

I guess. Right. Just feel safe.

[A]

Yeah. And that's what they're comfortable. Now you talk about trust. Tell us where that comes from.

[B]

Where trust comes from?

[A]

Yeah. Well, your trust, like you wrote in your book about how to get rid of the. The challenging. Can. Can we look at the COVID of your book again? I want to see that it's well done. Yep. The trust trap. So stop screwing. Go raise it up a little bit. The. Stop screwing yourself over and rewrite the. The rules of the game. I thought it was just stop screwing. I said no. I'm not going to give that up. All right.

[B]

Sorry, buddy. Your book can't convince me of that. It's not happening.

[A]

Yeah. It's not gonna happen. Yeah. Yes. Where does that come from?

[B]

So a lot of. A lot of things, it comes from a journey that I didn't realize that I went on.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And a journey that I've seen play out with not most, but every single one of my clients and so far, every single human being on the planet. I am yet to find someone that has not found a way to be the author of their own pain. And there is. There are degrees, right, Mitch? There's degrees to everything in life. And I can put my hand up and put my hand on my heart and say, yes, I was responsible for like 99 of the pain that's gone on in my life. Some other people that can't. And I can say, look, I'm responsible for 1%. And they can actually mean it because they have done all the right things for as long as possible. They make like a couple of different mistakes and small little things. But the majority of the stuff, like, they could say, yeah, I've only. I did this, so I did this, but I definitely was the major contributor, you know, And I had to wake up one day, look in the mirror and go, that guy, that's the guy that's responsible for being in this position. And that guy or that girl or that whatever you identify as that you're looking at and seeing in the mirror, that is the person that's responsible for where you are today. Because that's the person that's made all the decisions regardless on the reasons or the motivations or the inspirations for those decisions. They were still made by you. And it was a very. I've been very fortunate, I would say I'm extremely lucky person. People laugh at me when I say that with regards to, like when they hear about my travel stories and then when I hear about all the other dramas that I've had in my life. Like you call yourself dude. I'm still alive. I still have full functionality of my body. My brain still works. I can talk, I can hold a conversation, I can get on a plane and go travel. I was fortunate enough to be born in a country where my passport guarantees me entry into majority of the countries around the world without a visa. Now living with someone who comes from a country that doesn't allow that. The level of freedom that I have, that my wife does not have is just incredible. And you just don't know these things, right?

[A]

Until you experience it. Yeah.

[B]

People talk about white privilege, right? What Privilege is a real thing. Passport privilege is a real damn thing, right?

[A]

It is, it is.

[B]

And so this whole trust phenomenon, this whole idea, it started coming down to understanding the neuroscience of trust and how trust actually functions as a mechanism inside the brain. And it's loophole, it's a shortcut, it's a heuristic that we have. And very simply put, we are lazy by default. And that doesn't mean that you're a horrible slob. It means that we did not have 711 stacked on every corner for the previous 200,000 years. Or, sorry, like 199,900 years. Right. Not even in the last 100 years how we had it. But let's be generous, say it's the last hundred years. So that means we didn't always have food available to us at any given time. So we had to conserve energy and only expend energy when we were certain we were going to get rewarded for food or sex or whatever it was, because that ensures survival. So that means we want to only do things if it's going to get a result. And by conserving Energy. We don't want to be analyzing everyone all the time. And so the second I can get to a point where Mitch is safe, he's familiar. I understand Mitch. I can switch off, and I don't need to keep paying attention in the same way, I don't need to look how you're going to screw me over. I put you in this box, and that box is a trap. That is the trap. Because the second you put someone in that box is a second that your brain will start fighting you on when you start noticing deviations. And so we're clear, this doesn't mean that the person that you're spotting the deviations with is an evil, obnoxious, deceptive freak. It just simply means that you guys were moving along the same trajectory, and now you're moving along different trajectories. And these red flags that your brain's picking up and it's getting and it's paying attention to, and your cognitive bias is ignoring and telling it. No, this is not like that. No, they'd never do that to me. No, it's not possible. That's the trap. Because you put them in this safe and familiar box, and so that becomes the overriding downfall that people experience in all their relationships.

[A]

Good point. Good point. Now, I like to say I am in control of all the results in my life. And I think that. I mean, that was an early belief system I adopted when I let go of being a victim.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Today I will say I'm responsible for most of my outcomes. And I. It's not selective. Well, I would say in some cases. In most cases, I'm in charge. In some cases, due to hereditary issues. Like I have a heart issue.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That is hereditary. That came through because that's part of. It's science. Now, how I handle that speed bump is my choice. I have two stents in my heart.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I've had to modify my diet. I don't drink or smoke. There are some things I use to curtail. Take an insurance policy out on my. At my. My existing situation.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And there are ways of modifying it, but for the most part, I'm responsible. And I. I mean, a. An innocent child that catches a bullet, how is he responsible for doing that? Sometimes there are unexplained conditions in life. This is how I see it. Versus the hardliners say we are responsible for 100% of our. Our situations, and then they're the. The antithesis of that. Clay are the people that are live in victim mentality. Where do you feel about that because we're on the topic and I, I would like to get some of your perspective.

[B]

I'm more leaning, you could say with the far right on this. So it's 100. But just because you're 100 responsible for the decisions you make.

[A]

Yes. Decisions. Yes.

[B]

Right. Which means. Right. But those decisions lead to outcomes.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

It doesn't mean you could have accurately predicted. So, for example, let's use the example you just gave. There's two kids are playing on the street, they've got nothing to do. And then car drives past and they do a drive by shooting while the kids get shot.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

All right. Did they choose to get shot? No. Did they choose to go outside? Yes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. So it was their choice that put them in that position.

[A]

What if they were in the house?

[B]

Well, okay, there you go. They were still playing though, right. So it was their choice to be in that room at that time. So this is where the difference is. You've got to own your part in every situation. Okay. It doesn't mean that you cause the drive by. It doesn't mean that you have any responsibility to that. But you chose to go into that 100. The second you take away the fact that you chose to participate in something regardless of how much was outside of your control, the second you choose to abstain from that and release that you are a victim and therefore you have zero power to change it. And that is why I see it as a difference. Because if you can at least own that your choices led you into that situation regardless of whether you knew what was going to happen or not, you can go, okay, that was my choice to get into that situation. So how can I make better choices next time? How could I do this? What knowledge do I have now that I didn't have back then? So I used to, oh, we're going to a gray area now. But okay, so I have in the past worked with a lot of people who've been molested.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's not a pleasant topic.

[A]

No. It's not very uncomfortable, but it's very.

[B]

Pertinent to the point that I want to make here. They were young, right? Prepubescent with the majority, the vast majority of people that I've worked with, they in themselves knew, felt something was off, but still went in there anyway because they were looking for the attention or they want to be included in the group or they want to this like they didn't know that was going to happen, but they still knew they were like something. But like, let's keep going when they could own that was their decision to continue going. That then eventually led them to get into this situation that opened up the process for them to be able to forgive themselves. Okay. What's been holding them back this entire time was not forgiving the other people was the guilt and the shame that they were putting on themselves and all the hurt that they had inflicted on themselves. And if I'd only known better, if I'd only listened to this, if I'd only done this. So when you come from a place where you remove that from someone to me, from my experience, from what I've seen, you remove their ability to heal and move past it. And that's a very dangerous way to be. Now, again, I'm not saying it's 100 their fault and they should own all of it. And the other people that were involved have nothing involved. No. What I'm saying is in every single situation, you'll always be able to look for, okay, how did I contribute to it? And then own just that part. Don't own the whole thing. Own how you.

[A]

The outcome, you may not necessarily be responsible. That's a very good distinction, and I'm glad we talked about that, because I'm. I'm an alcoholic. A recovered one.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

My outcome is I'm an alcoholic now. I've been able to change my behavior. I no longer drink. I don't drink. I haven't had a drink in 41 years because of the we. Thank you. It's my biggest achievement in life because all of my success mushroomed out of me making that conscious choice not to pollute my body because I can't control it. It's my kryptonite.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Mitch thinks of himself as Superman, or used to. But kryptonite took me, brought me to my knees.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Liquor was my kryptonite. It was my absolute kryptonite. Can't control it, man. I start one drink, led to 15, and then I was. Then I. Then my outcome was jail or a fight that I don't remember getting in, waking up with Susie, whom I don't remember at all, and etc. Etc. I don't want to get too intimate, but I've. I've got some embarrassing outcomes a result of poor choices that I made.

[B]

Sounds like we have a very similar history.

[A]

Ah, yeah. And, yeah, I have made some very poor choices and I paid for it, and I'm. I take responsibility for it. And yet there are the situations of. I didn't choose to have this. This life of my Parents that might have been the ones that directed me or led me to becoming alcoholic.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

It's what I was served. But what I did with it after is my choice.

[B]

Right, exactly.

[A]

So we can do that. Jason. How do. I mean, Clayton. How do Jason. I was thinking of Jason Bourne. I had this image of him being cool. All of a sudden. Well, it's Clayton Bourne. We could have done that, but it's Clayton. Yeah, it's Clayton Moffat. How do people get in touch with you?

[B]

The easiest way, the most direct way is my email, which is go claimofford.com but then the most prominent way is on X, which is. I gotta remember this at Moffat Clay, I [e-mail].

[A]

So but if they punch.

[B]

No, no, no, no. Like if you punch in on X, you type in at Moffat Clay, then it'll come up with my username, handle or whatever it is that comes up. I can't remember.

[A]

Okay, okay. At Mafa Clay. But email is best. Okay. In order to get in touch with you now, who are the clients that you work with?

[B]

So the people that I've had the most resounding success with, people that identify themselves as blue collar business owners, which is very interesting to me. And the majority of them run refurbishment companies. So they're either general contractors, they're roofing companies, they're plumbers, they're mechanics.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They're guys that.

[A]

Trades guys. Trades guys.

[B]

Trades guys that have built their own business, salt to the earth kind of people and then just seem to be hitting revenue blocks. They seem to be losing people. They seem to be like, they just. They can't get past this certain growth factor. And a lot of the times their personal systems are limiting their professional systems. And so we modify and then watch it just go crazy. Awesome.

[A]

Well, Clayton, you've been a great guest today. I've enjoyed our conversation. We've gotten touched on a few topics and your book is available on Amazon, I presume?

[B]

Yes, sir, it is.

[A]

Okay. All right. So they'll know where to go to get your book. And you've been a great guest. I look forward to one day being able to shake your hand in person. Since we're in Thailand, we'll have to do this again in the future.

[B]

Sounds like a plan, Mitch, I appreciate it. Thank you.

[A]

Thank you. Thanks for tuning into the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to MitchCarson.com until next time, stay amazing.