Thriving in Intersectionality — Dr. Lola Adeyemo on Redefining Immigrant Leadership in Corporate America

Summary

Thriving in Intersectionality — Dr. Lola Adeyemo on Redefining Immigrant Leadership in Corporate America

The Amazing Authorities Podcast with Mitch Carson
Episode Date: November 3, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features Dr. Lola Adeyemo, newly-minted PhD, entrepreneur, and author of Thriving in Intersectionality: Immigrants, Belonging, and Corporate America. Host Mitch Carson guides a candid and insightful conversation on the immigrant experience in the American corporate world—how intersecting identities (like being Black, a woman, and an immigrant) shape personal journeys, leadership, and inclusion. The conversation also exposes the complexities of race, ethnicity, and success in corporate spaces, offering strategies for thriving despite challenges.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding “Intersectionality” and Dr. Adeyemo's Book

• Definition and Inspiration:
  Dr. Lola explains “intersectionality” as a framework for examining how overlapping identities impact experiences, particularly within marginalized groups. Inspired by Kimberlé Crenshaw and other researchers, she uses it to address immigrant and corporate dynamics.
  “What it really is, is a framework...for examining multiple layers that shape who people are.” —Dr. Lola [01:20]
• Book Origin:
  She published her book in 2022, after years of research and interviews with diverse immigrants in U.S. corporate settings.

2. Identity, Labels, and Assimilation

• Living Between Worlds:
  As a Nigerian-born woman who’s spent 16 years in the U.S., Dr. Lola discusses the multiplicity of labels she acquired in America—Black, African, immigrant, and how these affect perception and selfhood.
  “Coming into America and realizing that I’m Black...I’m not just Black. I’m a Black person in corporate America.” —Dr. Lola [04:04]
• Complex Labeling:
  Host and guest discuss America’s focus on racial and ethnic categories; Dr. Lola notes the pressure to “perform” American Blackness and the assumptions people make about her origins and knowledge.
  “There was the assumption that I was born and raised in America...I almost pretended like I understood.” —Dr. Lola [06:18]

3. Immigrant Experience: Shock, Discrimination, and Microaggressions

• Early Challenges:
  Despite English fluency and cultural familiarity, Dr. Lola encountered culture shock upon arrival in Texas, especially around accents and expectations.
  “My first stop was Texas...I couldn’t understand what people were saying. And I felt so...looked down on because, ‘Oh, you have an accent.’” —Dr. Lola [10:32]
• Campus vs. Corporate America:
  She found comfort and acceptance in her diverse university community but faced microaggressions and exclusion in the corporate world.
  “My campus experience was great...But then I got into corporate America is where the discrimination and microaggressions now started.” —Dr. Lola [12:17]
• Impact:
  These encounters initially silenced her and triggered a loss of confidence and voice.

4. Finding Support and Building Community

• Searching for Belonging:
  Dr. Lola gravitated towards communities—especially churches and affinity groups—that offered cultural familiarity and support.
  “I ended up finding an African church in Houston, and they come to pick me and they bring me back to my apartment, you know, so very welcoming.” —Dr. Lola [15:17]
• Professional Networks:
  She highlighted the power of immigrant and multicultural communities for growth and survival, both personally and professionally.

5. Leadership Philosophy and Professional Impact

• Corporate Inclusion Work:
  Dr. Lola now lives in San Diego, running EQI Mindset (Equity and Inclusion Mindset), partnering with organizations to create genuinely inclusive communities, launch and develop employee resource groups (ERGs), and empower leaders.
  “I help to launch the groups, I help to develop existing groups and to develop the leaders within these groups...That’s where I come in.” —Dr. Lola [18:14]
• Recognizing Immigrant Voices:
  She noted that existing affinity groups (e.g., Women’s, Black ERGs) often ignore immigrant-specific experiences—prompting both her book and the nonprofit Immigrants in Corporate.
  “The black group didn’t really acknowledge my immigrant experience. It was a black American experience.” —Dr. Lola [19:15]

6. Intra-Group Dynamics and Resilience

• Black American vs. African Immigrant Experience:
  Mitch explores potential tensions between Black American and African immigrant women in the workplace. Dr. Lola acknowledges friction and competition but emphasizes that immigrant success involves resilience and unique pressures—such as family obligations.
  “I felt like there was a lot of almost like pushback and suppression, even from black American women…because you have to be a doer, you have to be a go getter...that already places you at a very top percentage.” —Dr. Lola [21:29]

7. Cross-Cultural Commonalities among Immigrants

• Shared Challenges:
  Interviews with immigrants from Asia, Europe, and Latin America revealed common hurdles—like hierarchical upbringing and difficulty asserting oneself with older colleagues.
  “Culturally, we can’t speak when older people are speaking…That was a big challenge for me in the workplace.” —Dr. Lola [23:58]

8. Developing Leadership Across Generations and Cultures

• Leadership Style:
  Dr. Lola draws on family example (her father’s leadership in Nigeria) and focuses on humanizing colleagues, building relationships regardless of age or role, and leading with empathy.
  “I humanize the people that I work with so that it doesn’t matter what their role...I find commonalities.” —Dr. Lola [27:20]
• Navigating Generational Differences:
  She discusses bridging gaps between boomers, millennials (“culture translators”), and Gen Z/Alphas—balancing traditional values with new expectations around purpose and passion over job security.
  “We still don’t get why people will quit a high paying job because they just don’t feel like it...we know the value of keeping a stable job.” —Dr. Lola [30:14]

9. Parenting as a First-Generation Immigrant in America

• Parenting Across Cultures:
  Dr. Lola contrasts authoritarian Nigerian parenting with the information-rich, dialogue-driven American approach she’s using with her own children.
  “People respond to being seen and being heard, which is the same thing that I struggled with...I connect, I show vulnerability, and I welcome it from them.” —Dr. Lola [35:00]

10. Finding Her Voice and Amplifying Others

• Vulnerability & Representation:
  Dr. Lola chose to narrate her audiobook herself, despite insecurities about her accent, as a statement on vulnerability and authenticity. “This is a book about the immigrant experience...I wanted to record it myself because I wanted to be that vulnerable.” —Dr. Lola [37:11]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On discovering Blackness in America:
  “I’m not just Black. I’m a Black person in corporate America. What does that even…” —Dr. Lola [04:30]

• On the immigrant professional experience:
  “All of us struggle with that identity confusion. Because we are in America, in a country where things are kind of divided in a way, and America make it sound like we are the authority on how people should categorize themselves.” —Dr. Lola [08:05]

• On finding her voice:
  “Those first few years in America, I started to shut down. To not want to talk, to not want to contribute when I’m outside campus...But then when I got into the workplace...it was like I’m losing my support network.” —Dr. Lola [15:45]

• On internalized tension within Black communities:
  “There was a lot of almost like pushback and suppression, even from black American women, because…You think you’re better than us or you want to take something from us.” —Dr. Lola [21:35]

• On leadership and relationship building:
  “I want to get to know people. I want to know people beyond their titles. And so I humanize the people that I work with so that it doesn’t matter what their role and their task or their responsibilities.” —Dr. Lola [27:33]

• On narrating her audiobook:
  “I wasn’t comfortable with my voice...I said I wanted to record it myself because I wanted to be that vulnerable.” —Dr. Lola [37:11]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:42: Dr. Lola introduces her book and the concept of intersectionality
• 04:04: Realizing Black identity and its function in America
• 10:32: Experiencing culture shock in Texas and language barriers despite fluency
• 12:17: Contrast between campus diversity and corporate microaggressions
• 15:17: Finding belonging in cultural/religious community
• 18:14: Work with EQI Mindset and focus on inclusion in corporate spaces
• 19:15: Lack of immigrant-specific support in traditional ERGs
• 21:35: Addressing intra-Black community tensions in workplace
• 23:58: Shared immigrant challenges across continents
• 27:20: Dr. Lola’s human-centric leadership philosophy
• 30:14: Millennials as cultural “translators” in the workplace
• 35:00: Parenting strategy as an immigrant in America
• 37:11: Recording her own audiobook as an act of vulnerability

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Resources and Where to Find Dr. Lola's Work

• Book: Thriving in Intersectionality — available on Amazon (print, e-book, audiobook)
• Nonprofit: Immigrants in Corporate — support network and resource for immigrant professionals
• Consulting: EQI Mindset — Equity and Inclusion consulting for organizations

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This episode offers a raw, nuanced look at immigrant leadership and identity, blending cultural commentary, practical workplace insights, and personal stories—an empowering resource for immigrants, corporate leaders, and anyone committed to true inclusion.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Amazing Authorities podcast, where game changers, visionaries, and category leaders share how they built their brands, platforms, and global influence. Your host is Mitch Carson, international speaker, media strategist, and creator of the Instant Authority system. If you're ready to learn from those who've done it and want to become the go to expert in your space, you're in the right place.

[B]

Lola, you are a published author, and you're gonna have to share with us the meaning of the title of your book. Could you show it to us, please?

[C]

Yes. So my book is called Thriving in Intersectionality, Immigrants, Belonging, and Corporate America. And I also. I published in 2022. I started writing it in 2021. And I think I also found that word. I was newly introduced to that word around the time I was doing the research for my book. And that word is a mouthful, as my husband reminds me all the time. Oh, yeah, when I was labeling it, it was like, nobody knows how to say. That was like. That's the point that gets the conversation started. It's. It's thriving in intersectionality itself. Is. Is the core of what I do, what I wanted to communicate, what I wanted to address. And is a word that is what it really is, is a framework, okay, for examining multiple layers that shape who people are. And the one I'm most familiar with is Kimberly Crenshaw, and she was a researcher that explored the intersection of race and gender through our research a couple of decades ago around the black woman experience. But there have been a Mexican researcher prior to that and also did some research around race, around culture and gender. So it's a framework for examining the multiple impacts of different underrepresented identity categories and how they intersect and some of the barriers and the benefits that you can't really explain or extracts when you examine each identity category individually. So what they are doing is using this framework to explore how the intersection shapes our experiences.

[B]

That's a mouthful. As your husband. That is a mouthful. So it's. And that involves all races and how we all mix together, I presume.

[C]

Exactly. And. And so. So I have a podcast called Thriving in Intersectionality that came from the book. And what I like is I explain the word, and then I ask the person talking to me, when you think of intersectionality, describe yourself. Help me get to know you. And it's been interesting the way different people introduce themselves to listeners using words and phrases that if you don't know them, you probably would not have thought about. And. And so for me, for my talk, for my work, I talk about the intersection of being an immigrant and how it intersects with different other categories.

[B]

Well, what category? I mean, you come from Nigeria, as we found out, which is great. How long have you been in the US?

[C]

I came to the US in 2009, so.

[B]

Okay, 16 years.

[C]

Yes, 16 years.

[B]

Okay, well that's my math and I think it's your math. That's a good amount of time. And what did you experience? Because there had to be something that drove you to write this book and make things that you experience. Being an immigrant, being a woman, being not American.

[C]

Yes. Being a black person. Married.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

An identity category that I necessarily didn't think about when I was growing up in Nigeria. And so 16, that means I've still, still spend more of my living years. I'm 41 in Nigeria. This is where I was born and raised. This is where I have my formative years. And then coming into America and realizing that I'm black.

[B]

Are you?

[C]

I'm not just black. I'm a black person in corporate America. What does that even.

[B]

That's a lot of labeling. Oh my God. A lot of skins to put on. It's a woman, she's black and she's African from Nigeria. All these things. Fact.

[C]

Because you are well traveled, you can actually say African and know that that might be a little different. Right. In corporate America, I. I felt like the black label was more of segregating me into the African American.

[B]

But you're not. You, you are, but you. Well, this is an interesting topic and I've had this discussion. I'm an American. I was born in America. So that makes me some. Most of the people who are black in America are black Americans. But they. The labeling is African American. Well, if you go into my heritage, my heritage, my background is English, German and Spanish. I don't call myself Spanish American. I don't. I'm American. I happen to be Caucasian. Well, am I Caucasian or am I Latin? Because I'm Spanish. Where do all these labels fit? And that's where it gets confusing. Because if you talk about an African American, you truly are an African who now lives in America. You've got a green card. Are you a real African American or is it your next door neighbor that goes back five generations in America.

[C]

Exactly. That's where it gets complicated. Because like I have to explain who I am so that I'm not trying to be what I'm not. I'm not trying to pretend like I was born and raised in America or that I know the culture or that I have a Long history of experiences in America. And so coming into corporate America, I felt like there was the assumption that I was born and raised in America. So there was a lot of things that people felt I knew that I almost pretended like I understood, which is a whole lot of things that had to do with racism. Oh, history of racism in America. And I think that's the root of all the Black, African American. I'm African American American because for me, born and raised in Nigeria, I see America as a diverse pool. I don't see America as a country that belongs to white Americans.

[B]

It doesn't. Americans, people who were born there are, we can call ourselves Americans, but there were the, there were, there were Americans that were there long before. What about the Eskimos? What about the Eskimos? That's part of America because it's Alaska. They came long before the Europeans came. Let's just call it the Europeans because they were the white skinned people. What about the Native Americans? And there's an argument by some people. I have a black American friend in Las Vegas. He and I have had these discussions and he swears up and down, Lola, that the first people in America were the Africans. Okay, so it's confusing.

[C]

Yes. Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not history buff, but I felt like coming into corporate America and kind of seeing some of the assumptions that people make about me based on my look, they think I know even foods. Like people talking about Southern foods and assuming that I know what I meant or oh my gosh, culture, you know, and I'm like. And, and that started my journey into connecting with other immigrants because I, I realized, okay, I, I started when I interviewed people for my book. I interviewed people from Europe, from Asia, and we talked about what bound us together in corporate America. It was the book about career, but it was a book that I listened to the voices of people that had moved to the US from different continents. And so getting to really put together, all of us struggle with that identity confusion. Because we are in America, in a country where things are kind of divided in a way, and America make it sound like we are the authority on how people should categorize themselves. And then we talked about the career choices that they had prepared themselves for, and then what they are currently doing, how they think their background shapes their career path, and then some of the things they've had to learn and unlearn in order to advance to leadership in corporate America.

[B]

And what were some of the major roadblocks you experienced? I mean, you obviously overcame them. You're successful. Now you have your, your master's degree and in a, in a, in a degree category that's hard to pronounce as well.

[C]

No, it's easy technology. Actually, I just bought my doctor last month.

[B]

Oh, congratulations, Dr. Lola.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Okay. Dr. Lola.

[C]

Whoa.

[B]

What was your doctor?

[C]

That's a Nigerian in me. We keep, we keep going to school, but yeah, I got my doctorate in organizational leadership.

[B]

Organizational leadership. Congratulations. Congratulations. So what did you experience when you first came to the U.S.

[C]

Lost. Felt lost.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I think that sounds fair.

[C]

I think the, the. As a child, I was a reader child. I read a lot of books. I also, and most of the books I, I started reading earlier on were American based books. I watched a lot of shows. American shows. I think when I came to America, I was so confident that I will be comfortable in America because I speak English.

[B]

Got it.

[C]

And Nigeria is a English speaking country. And then I came in and my first stop was Texas and I felt like I don't even know how to say anything. So. Because I spent 18 months in, in Texas being in grad school and I couldn't understand what people were saying and I felt so sort of like, look down on because, oh, you have an accent. I can't figure out what you're saying. Like, where you from? You know, it's all this. And so it was for me, culture shock because I thought, I didn't think about that aspect at all. I felt like, oh, it's America. I speak English. You know, I watch American shows. I'm fine. But I didn't know about America, knew about me.

[B]

Well, were you discriminated against by the other people or did they just tease you in a friendly way?

[C]

I think I will say teasing in a condescending way. Not in a condescending way. I would say the campus, the college I went to, the campus I went to, I had a great experience because it was a very diverse student population. They had a lot of international students. So I was sheltered from corporate America by my campus experience. My campus experience was great.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Throughout my admission, I was in touch with the school. I planned my campus pickup, my airport pickup. The school picked me up. I rented my apartment before I came. I did all of the planning with the school before I came and then with the pick me up, I had a good experience on the campus. They had a program and a very strong international student support office. My, my roommates were Indian and, and then I met Africans on campus. But then I got into corporate America is where the discrimination and the microaggressions now started because now I don't have a system.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[C]

This inferior person who is in this space and has a degree that maybe we don't have or we know more than you.

[B]

Wow. Wow. Well, that's interesting. I love talking about these. These differences. And I have. I've met some discrimination in my travels where I've lived, and there's. There's discrimination. I know when I went to Dubai to run events, there are discriminations there. I, I don't want to get into them too much, but I can relate to what you're saying to a degree. I certainly didn't experience what you've gone through, but how did you overcome all those let's. Is it an obstacle? Was it a. Did it. Did it preclude you from progressing or was it just, oh, I note this. People treat me with these microorganisms. I like that word.

[C]

I think I've been on the journey where I, I walked through it. I wouldn't say I overcame it. I would say I learned how to walk through it. And, and some of that process, I think initially when I first started was it silenced me. I didn't want to talk and I didn't want to be with people who were not like me. I, you know, church is a big part of my culture. And I, I remember coming into Texas and just googling the nearest church because I am. I wasn't mobile. I didn't have a car. So I just googled, like, the nearest church. And I tried a couple of churches around my apartment that happened to be white churches. I didn't have good experiences, and for me, that wasn't normal because I just thought, oh, you know, church. Church is kind of a cultural thing for me. It's a comfort thing. And I was looking for community. I didn't feel, yeah. Being. When I started being in those spaces where everybody looks at me or questions me like, what are you doing here? I ended up finding an African church in Houston, and they come to pick me and they bring me back to my apartment, you know, so very welcoming. So that's when I started to notice the difference. Like, oh, in the white spaces, you might get treated differently. Find the spaces where people look different and they are all working together nicely. Right. So I started to get that education, but I also didn't. I feel like I started losing my voice. I didn't grow up being a quiet child. My dad was a professor back in Nigeria. I read a lot of books and I very, you know, vocal and taking on roles and positions. But I felt like those first few years in America, I started to shut down. To not want to talk, to not want to contribute when I'm outside campus kept me, you know, cushioned because the multicultural office, I was very active there. I was involved with the Black Student association, with the student council. Right. That, that's the natural me. But then when I got into the workplace and I moved, so I moved from Texas to California for my first job. And so it was like I'm losing money.

[B]

Support network.

[C]

Yeah, my support network. And starting from scratch and then working in a big corporation and seeing a whole different side of America. So I had to walk through it by learning to find my new support network. What does that look like? What are other people doing? How are they surviving? Thriving? How are they coping with it? And, and all of that, I think kind of spoiled my work and, and my, my work and my speaking today because I want to make sure that other immigrants or people that are immigrant allies that are from all over the place have a support network in corporate America.

[B]

And now you're in San Diego. What tell, what are you doing now to keep busy? Because you're, I mean, I went through your website and looked at all this like, oh, my gosh, this woman is a doer. A doer. You're involved.

[C]

I like that. You know, I don't think anybody has ever used that word, but I kind of love it the way you use it. I'm a doer, I think, trying not to do too much, that it doesn't move things. I, I, I want to make an impact in the, in the corporate workplace. And I think where my passion really landed, and that's how I shaped everything that I do, is how can we make our workplaces and I mean corporate America, this giant corporate thing that we keep thinking is separate from America and is actually a huge part of America melting pot is how can we make it more inclusive? So my, my company is called EQI Mindset, and it's equity and inclusion mindset. And the that I do is to partner with HR people, leaders, managers, equity and inclusion, Diversity, Equity and inclusion leaders. Dei.

[B]

Dei. Okay.

[C]

Yes. So companies call them different things. You know, some, some companies have somebody in the role of building inclusion. Some companies have everything folded into HR or people strategy. But so what I go there to do is to help to build inclusive communities for the organizations. So in America, we call it mostly ergs, employee resource groups, but a lot of companies will call them business resource groups, colleague networks, those internal micro communities that you have within your organizations, are they truly inclusive? Are they driving business results for you? Right. Like, is it part of your business strategy? So I help to launch the groups, I help to develop existing groups and to develop the leaders within these groups, because usually they are the most passionate, but they are not necessarily having the skills that they need. So that's where I come in. And when I started doing that, I. I think the journey to my book, the journey to my research and exploring the immigrant experience in America came because as I was working with these companies and these ergs, I didn't see a lot of people acknowledging the immigrants experience as a zone. Right. And myself as an example, is either you join the women group or you join the black group. Well, the black group didn't really acknowledge my immigrant experience. It was a black American experience.

[B]

Which.

[C]

Yeah. Which is different. Which is very different. So my book research started as a doctoral research. I wanted to explore the experiences of immigrants in the American workplace. And so I was interviewing all these immigrants and capturing all the data. And my book ended up spurring the launch of my nonprofit, which is called Immigrants in Corporate. And it's a nonprofit community for immigrant professionals across different companies. So that's a passion, passion side of my work. And we have a platform and a national virtual community. We host development and networking programs every month for immigrants who work in different countries, but they are living in different parts of the US and we are all supporting each other and being that network that I didn't have.

[B]

So how did you bridge the gap? I'm going to ask you probably an uncomfortable question, but I think that's what creates an interesting interview. How did the black American women treat you?

[C]

How did the black American women treat me?

[B]

Yeah. So born in America of African ancestry would be the. The correct way of saying how did they. Because you have an accent, you're Nigerian, you came here later. You know, you didn't come here as a little girl. You came as an adult, already educated, and then came for a master's degree. Was there a division? Were you treated differently? Yeah.

[C]

And that's an interesting question that I think a lot of us immigrants do not like to address sometimes because it's almost like when trying to. We're not trying to pitch each other against each other. But the thing is, for a typical immigrant woman to be where you are right now, you have had to build so much resilience, and you have to be a doer, you have to be a go getter. And so that already places you at a very top percentage, even in Nigeria. Right. Like, not every Nigerian is like me, but the fact that I'm here now, there's a lot of muscles that you have worked. So when I go to corporate America, I felt like there was a lot of almost like pushback and suppression, even from black American women, because it's almost you. You think you're better than us. You think you're better than us or you want to take something from us. Right. So there's a little bit of that, because the way. Yeah, we get. We got where we are. We're grateful to be in the system, but we want to think about what the next thing is. There's a lot of cultural, like, I hold my family, I hold my parents of responsibility that we are carrying. And that kind of separates us in a way in the workplace, in the way we work, in the things we go for, in the way we go after it. And so I thought there was a lot of friction, even with. Between African, black Americans and Africans from the diaspora who actually were born and raised outside the country. And so when I started to interview you people who moved into the US that's kind of the theme, especially black people from Africa.

[B]

Well, you know, it's interesting because, I mean, that topic is like, where does this come from, those feelings of wanting or sounding different, being different? I'm sure you might. Well, I. I don't want to say I'm sure. Was there a. A greater connection for you for, let's say, Latino people, let's say Latin women that came from Mexico, El Salvador or Colombia, or any other country outside of the United States that weren't the same race as you, was there a greater connection with them because they were immigrants like you?

[C]

Oh, yeah. So I think that was. That was really what the book was about, was that interviewing all these immigrants from different continents, I was able to pull together so much similarities in our experiences. So there was a chapter where I talk about hierarchy, and that's within the Asian culture. The not don't speak unless you're always disrespectful to speak to people older than you.

[B]

Right.

[C]

In Africa, there is a term, there are different terms for people that are older than you, even if it's by a day. There's a lot of elderly respect. And so I had some Asian guests, and we talked about how that impacted their workplace experience, because culturally, we can speak when older people are speaking. We can speak to our elders. And that's the same thing in Africa. And it was a big challenge for me in the workplace. It's like Being So there's some. Almost like what we do is because you are older, we expect more from you. We expect you to be smarter, to be more responsible. So what happens when you get into the workplace and you are put together, you are put over a team where people that are older than me by decades are reporting to me. Oh. And manage them. Right. Because they're older than me, they're old enough to be my parents. So it becomes a challenge for an immigrant put in that position because. And then what happened if you have a bad manager who is older than you, you can't speak back to them because you're like, well, he's the manager, he has the title, he has the age. So he should know better. So I have to do what he says.

[B]

Yes. Even if they're making a mistake or not doing, they're making a mistake. Ah, you have to suck it up and just let it, allow it. So that you are in a leadership role now in your, your current position. You now have the PhD and your doctor Lola Deo.

[C]

Hell, a job.

[B]

Yeah. Well, yeah, that's, that's cool. How do you lead people today who are older than you? What is your key? I mean, if you have to disband or separate from your cultural direction or over overlay, coming from where you come from, where you've got to listen to older people. But you, like you said, how have you managed that?

[C]

Yeah, I think what? Corporate America. I stepped out of corporate America to do my own thing 100%. And I think in the last five years there's been a lot of growth as well to get to. So my other company, which is the one that my husband and I work on, we do have people. We have people. So I'm CEO there and we have a team of 27 people reporting to us full time and part time. And what I've tried to do, and of course we have some people that are older than me in age. And so what I've done, muscle that I've grown to develop is to go back to actually what I saw growing up with my dad. My dad was the first of nine kids. Wow. Mom was the first of five. Right. So we had a large family. And my dad was a very people person. And he led by example, he built relationships with people. And I'd forgotten all of that, but I started to lean back into that. That is not something to be ashamed of. It's not something to suppress. I want to get to know people. I want to know people beyond their titles. And so I humanize the people that I work with so that it doesn't matter what their role and their task or their responsibilities. I humanize them. And I find commonalities. And you see that at the end of it, we're all humans and we're all people, you know, and we have goals and we have dreams. So I try to make sure I ground myself with that, with seeing this person as a person and then thinking of the roles and responsibilities as the tasks. Because we never know this person might leave the company. Do I still remember the person as a person? They might work somewhere else. The relationship transcends the current role. So I try to make sure I'm connecting as humans with people, regardless of their title or age.

[B]

You know, it's. I. I got thrust into a management role for my uncle's company. And when I was 33 and it was a manufacturing plant in Los Angeles, and he said, go, you know, do this, do this job. Because the plant manager had left and I got slid into this role and I had sold a company I was involved with. And I thought, okay, this is a new challenge. Oh, my gosh. I had to deal with all these cultural differences. I had men from Hawaii, from Thailand, Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala who were decades older than me, and I was the nephew of the owner, and I had 170 employees in my report. And all I did was replicate what he did as a manager, which was old school. Yelling. I used to. I used to scream every day. Because behind that, Lola, was frustration, fear. And they were testing me because I was. They thought, okay, because I was young, I was 33, but I was nobody's pushover, and I ruled. I ended up having to be authoritarian because that's what they responded to, at least initially. That's what I believed. As I got older, the management style changed to, hey, well, what do you think? And it became a little more interactive. But back then, I had to roll with an iron fist because that's all they responded to.

[C]

What they responded to.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I think that's what was normalized as well, is it's a changing world. So I'm millennial, and I kind of feel like I was recently somebody used the phrase millennials are culture translators because we are switched between we. Our parents are boomers, and we want.

[B]

I'm a boomer.

[C]

Understand. We understand the traditional workplace. At the same time, we are closer to these Gen Z and Alphas and whatever.

[B]

Which I don't understand. Which I don't understand.

[C]

We understand them because we're raising them now. I mean, we're raising them or we are the aunties, the cool aunties for these generations. So we can help them translate. Because we still don't get why people will quit a high paying job because they just don't feel like it. We still know the value of keeping a stable job.

[B]

Right. It's called pay your rent, pay your bills. And they just don't feel like it. They just quit randomly and then they can play with their phones. I don't get it.

[C]

Yeah, but we also get the passion side, because my generation, that we are trying to find passion, we responded to our parents and found security first and pushed aside passion. And now we are on the journey and most people in my generation at that stage where we're blending my purpose and passion with my security with bills, and then we have a generation that is security, security, security. We're talking about passion and then we have these people. It's purpose and passion and purpose and passion. I'll sleep in my car if I need to. I'll couch surface, right?

[B]

Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's just a, it's a totally different mindset. I remember when I pushed back against my uncle who was very authoritarian. He screamed, called me. Every name in the book was a New Yorker old style management by fear and, and terror. And I said, well, do you feel like, you know, I said, hey, man, you know, that's, that's a, that's a pretty tough thing you said to me. And he said, I don't give an F what you think. Get to work, get results. And he said, I'm going to punch you in the stomach. You know, I mean, it was that type of management. Very different. I can't imagine saying that to a Gen Z or today or these alphas. I mean, they would probably crumble and cry to their, to their, to their millennial parents and.

[C]

Yeah, and the millennial parents will help them translate this.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it's funny because the. My generation, your parents, generation of. How do you translate, make these differences? And then there's the cultural piece. But do you notice the communication? Is it different in, in your culture? Let's just talk about Nigeria, which is the largest country in Africa, which is the biggest continent. It's very large, large country, you know, very big. How do, how did you bridge that gap? Was it slowly, was it quickly? Or did you just all of a sudden get thrown into the fire.

[C]

In Nigeria?

[B]

Say again, Lola?

[C]

Oh, I didn't catch the question. I didn't catch the question. How do we bridge what gap?

[B]

How do you bridge the gap between you had. I mean, it's all that intersectionality which I find fascinating. You're. You're Nigerian, you're an immigrant, you're a woman, and now you're in America having to manage in some cases, I would imagine, white Americans. And that must have been incredibly interesting. I don't want to label it more than interest.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, we're learning by doing. We are giving ourselves falses and checkpoints. I think even with the parenting side, this is a conversation that is very real right now because my. I have a Preteen who is 12.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I was talking to my friend that there are conversations I just never had with my parents because we don't do that kind of talk in Nigeria. You just listen to your elders and you move through it. You don't have puberty talk. You just know what you're not supposed to do and you don't question your parents. But we are living in a country where access to information is so.

[B]

Available.

[C]

Yeah, available. So they get the information anyway. And this is the country they were born and leaving. So my children, at first. What. What are they now? I don't know. They are immigrants as far as I'm concerned.

[B]

But apparently they're first generation Americans because.

[C]

They are born here. And so they say, mom is from Nigeria and they are not. And they will be correct because this is all they've ever known. And so how do I balance that? Raising somebody and managing somebody here and being a leader who was raised with cultural mindsets, a different cultural mindset. We bring the best of both worlds. And I think a lot of times people respond to being seen and being heard, which is the same thing that I struggled with. Right. Is finding my voice and speaking up. And so I try to teach people that and to also be vulnerable with my kids and with my employees. Right. I don't do the whole screen behind, stay behind the screen and be this person. I connect, I show vulnerability, and I welcome it from them. And we are able to separate the human from what needs to be done. And the same thing with my parenting. Open the door for them to have conversations with me. Not the authoritarian parenting that we accepted as the norm when we were young. I mean, we didn't question it. If your parents say don't do something, then you don't do it. And that didn't mean I got more informed about that. You know, what if I wanted to understand why I shouldn't do it? Wouldn't that give me a better insight? No, you don't question your parents, you just don't do it so you don't get in trouble. But I can't do that with my kids. I have to give them context.

[B]

Okay. And then they learn from it.

[C]

Understand? Yeah. You know, so it's almost like you're cuddling them, but I don't see that cing. I think this generation, the newer generation, they want more information because they have access to a lot of information. So if you don't give them some information, they will get some information somewhere.

[B]

That makes sense. That makes sense. You make a lot of sense. And your husband, how does he respond to this? He's also Nigerian.

[C]

He's also Nigerian, but it's funny because he was. He grew up in the US So I think there's a little bit of difference. But overall, the values are similar. The alignment and the values for us are similar. So we get. We ultimately get to the same point, and our parenting styles are different. So we sort of complement each other as well.

[B]

Well, and it works well. Where can people get your book, Lola?

[C]

Yeah. So Thriving in Intersectionality is available on Amazon in different formats. Oh, fun fact. I have an audiobook as well.

[B]

Oh, nice.

[C]

That's. That was. No, that was one of the scariest things I've had to do. Remember the whole conversation about accent, about, do people want to hear my voice? I'm not comfortable with my voice. And so when I. My publisher gave me the option to get somebody to record it for me, and it was included as part of the package, or I could include it. I could record it myself. And so it took me a while to say, you know what? This is a book about the immigrant experience. This is a book with the voices of a lot of immigrants. I didn't necessarily say all their names right. Well, at least I'll try. I was close enough. I. So I said I wanted to record it myself because I wanted to be that vulnerable. So I haven't listened to the full book since I recorded it, but I did listen to a couple, and it was a very vulnerable process of saying, you know what? I've been on this journey around my voice, founding my voice back, my accent, and I'm just going to go ahead and record the book. So I did.

[B]

Wow, that's great. Well, you've been a terrific guest. We've gone down some different paths than I originally intended, but that's the beauty of doing a podcast interview. You get to learn a lot and grow together, and I've appreciated our time. I are a doctor, Lola. I've appreciated our time together just recently. Are you getting comfortable with that new title?

[C]

It's gonna take a while. Okay. I have it on my LinkedIn because my mentors reminded me too. And I have my. I have one of my assistants. From the day I got it, he's never called me anything but Dr. Lola. And I keep like, you know, you can still call me Lola. And it's like, why?

[B]

Oh, that's good. Well, that's good. Enjoy it. You've earned it.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Yeah, you've earned the title. You've earned the distinction and congratulations on your. Are you writing a second book?

[C]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[B]

Okay, well, we'll have to have you back as a guest when that second book is there, so we can give it a little bit of punch and sales and I'll certainly buy your book and read it and review it when I have the. The next opportunity.

[C]

Thank you so much, Mitch. It was so nice chatting with you both before.

[B]

Likewise.

[C]

And getting to know you as host. And I'm looking forward to staying connected. Thank you everyone for listening.

[A]

Thanks for tuning in to the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to MitchCarson.com until next time, stay amazing.