A (4:53)

Okay. Well, that makes sense. You know, it's an unnatural act for a parent, being your mother, to see her daughter passed before her. And that's exactly what happened. My grandmother went through that because my mother died at 45. My father died at 49, five weeks apart. I was an only child. I didn't know how to deal with that grief. As I shared, I would give my story. I mean, we've all got one. Mine was a little bit profound because I was 22 at the time, and Then bang, bang. Right? Then bang, bang. It affected me in with drug addiction. I had to deal with it somehow. I didn't cry for a year, and I failed out of college. I couldn't even focus on my studies. I ended up having. I went on academic disqualification, had to reapply to come back later. It was a. It was a horrible time. And I don't. There was nothing around, really. There were therapists that I could talk to, you know, with elbow patches and a pipe and cross legs and sit there and tell me how you feel. Well, I feel like. I feel abandoned. I feel. Yeah, I feel horrible. And I know it's part of life. We lose our parents, we lose a sibling. It happens. And I didn't know how to. How to deal with it. How do you contend with this? What action? What do you take? The first thought was drinking, and then it led to other things. And then all of a sudden I was a mess, you know, and I found my way out of it.

B (6:26)

And that's such a normal reaction for a lot of people. Yep.

A (6:30)

Yeah. And at 22, and then 23, I woke up and said, I don't want to die. And I sought help on a larger scale. And as I said, I've been clean and sober almost 42 years now because of my commitment. But if I had the proper counseling that you're talking about, it would have been. I was told, oh, you should write a book about your experience and all this. But I think a lot of people go through. I don't know how unique my situation is, you know, or how unique your situation is. We've all got a story of life, and I think it's just a journey. And maybe if we can help somebody. Is that. Is that your ambition is to be able to help somebody that goes through?

B (7:08)

Yes, because you're right. So many people get lost. I mean, the one thing about social media is it's really helped us to see that we're not alone, that we can join groups where others are dealing with grief, too. And that helps us, that comforts us, because so many times, as I'm sure you felt, we feel like we're the only ones in the world going through it, and we're all alone and nobody else can understand. So social media has helped us realize, no, we're not alone. Other people are going through it too. And I remember I was a middle school teacher, and after I left the classroom, years later, one of my former students posted on social media that his grandma died. And everybody was saying, oh, I'm So sorry. I'm so sorry. And I knew her, she was more like his mom. She pretty much raised him. And he was saying, oh, thanks everybody. Well, I'm going to go get drunk now. And everybody was like, yeah, that's the best way to deal with it. Just go get drunk. And he was in his 20s and so I immediately reached out to him and say, and said, you know, I understand what you're saying, I understand what you're talking about, but please contact me. There are healthier ways to cope with your grandma's loss. So it seems like that's a knee jerk reaction for so many young people is, oh, just go get drunk. Just avoid AVO avoidance.

A (8:18)

Right, exactly.

B (8:19)

Escape, escape, escape, escape, escape.

A (8:21)

Yeah, it's first level response. It's knee jerk slash, first level response. And it is acceptable societally because what's alcohol for? It's been around. And that's level one pain reduction. Yeah.

B (8:37)

So I wanted to let people know you can like journal. You can get in touch with, you know, know, wellness, like exercising helps you. Just going for a walk, for crying out loud. Just getting in touch with nature, you know, eating healthy, trying to talk with someone about why maybe your back suddenly hurts and your neck hurts. It could be part of the grief or you have a head cold that you've had for three weeks. It could be part of your grief, you know, and these are all things that I had no idea about until I started studying it. The, the brain, gut connection, you know, what you eat affects your brain and what your, your brain affects your eating, you know, and once I learned all these things, I thought, I've got to start sharing this with people and, and maybe keep them from going down that dark path, you know, that a lot of people don't come back from. You know,

A (9:27)

what, what are these? What else did you seek out? I noticed that you're a Christian and okay, that is what you chose as your religion, possibly your foundation or spirit. What if somebody has a different faith? And like, I live in Thailand, I'm calling in, and here largely the population is Buddhist. So they have a different faith, they practice. I mean, they're literally hundreds of different religions. Do you think that that's a key component to dealing with grief, is having some spiritual, spiritual connection or outlet? Let's just. I don't want to get into religious debate.

B (10:09)

I'm just saying that is a great question because even in my graduate degree studies, they were all secular sources that I had to read, Right. They all agreed. Even the federal government's websites Mental health. Agree, having that spiritual connection helps. And these are all secular researchers, they did their research and they found that the people who have a spiritual connection tend to recover in healthier ways. They tend to understand the reasoning behind there's like this, like you said, foundation. You don't necessarily have to have a religious experience or anything. But what it happens is it helps you understand that there could possibly be a purpose behind what happened. Like this massive storm hits and like, you know, Thailand gets a lot of those, these massive storms hit and that it can kill people, it can damage people's property and everything. And it couldn't possibly seem like there's a purpose for it. But if you look in other parts of the world, those storms replenish the earth. They get rid of the pollution, they help grow crops, you know, they help the earth. But in other parts of the country, they're wiping people out. They're. Those tornadoes are wiping entire towns out. And so when you have that spiritual insight, you can go deeper and realize, you know, there could be a purpose behind this and that gives you hope. And for some religions like mine, we believe in the afterlife, right, that we will see our loved ones again. There's so many religions that have that, that hope of, don't worry, this life isn't the only thing. There's, there's another part to it. And we will say our loved ones again. And that kind of connection just helps you get up and face another day. And they, they did so much research that those who don't have that connection are the ones who really struggle because they think this is it, this life is it. And so now my loved ones are gone, that's it. And there's that hopelessness, you know, it starts to eat away at them. So, yeah, so many secular researchers found that the spiritual quality, that spiritual insight does help people go forward on their grief journey. So it's extremely important.

A (12:23)

Yeah, well, I want to unpack that for a second because that is so unclear. It's about as clear as mud when you say spirit. Because immediately it's not a criticism, it's a commentary or a comment to, to discuss. Because the first reaction, first level reaction, people say spiritual, we default to church. I was raised in the church. Many of us in America were. It's largely a Christian country. We think church, that isn't the case. And you mention all these secular sources which are science based, but then default to some sort of spiritual addition or foundation. What does that really mean from, let's say a more educated perspective?

B (13:08)

Yeah, exactly. You're talking about so many different cultures and not just religions, but just that cultural faith. The. The faith and the hope that this isn't the only life, that there is something else. And so many other religions, Indian religion, like you were saying, the Buddhist faith, they believe that this is just one phase and that there's another phase. The Native Americans believe that, too. This is just part of the journey, but the journey continues after. So they have that hope that keeps them going. And these research, researchers found that these are the faith. These are the types of faith that people cling to when things are tough. And they start to realize, I'm not in charge of everything. I don't have ultimate control over everything. There's something else that has control over everything, and therefore, that gives me rest. Because otherwise I would think, my gosh, why didn't I get my sister to the doctor? Why didn't I help her with this? Why didn't I help her with that? Or my. Why didn't I get my mom to the hospital? And I'll start to feel like it was my fault. It's my fault. It was all my fault because I'm in control of everything. So then I failed. And I find that so many people I talk to who are in grief start to go in that direction. And even Kubler Ross and her five phases of, you know, grief phases and everything mentions that, that so many people get into that phase of regret and bargaining, if only I done this, or, oh, God, if you heal my loved one, then I'll be a missionary. You know, that kind of stuff. So they. They start to feel like that hopelessness and having that spiritual foundation helps get you over that huge obstacle. It's a tough one to get over. It really is. But having that spiritual foundation of faith and hope and understanding that there just might be a higher power than ours, a higher power over us that is in control of everything, and that this life is just one step in the journey, the big journey, and that death is just another step of the journey. It keeps going. All of that research suggests that people who have that background tend to cope with grief in healthier ways than people who don't.

A (15:28)

In what? All right, I'm going to transition a little bit. You're a fiction author and you have found so. Boy, that was a heavy topic, but it's. Where did that come into play? Was that after dealing with grief, or was it always there?

B (15:48)

Well, you know, I'm a child of the 70s. I was 10 years old when Star wars came out. And so I Was raised by the television. You know, we would sit and watch TV while we ate dinner. We were that generation. And so TV and movies were all about escapism. And my home life was a little rough. My parents were going through a divorce, and so the movies were escape. So for me, when I wrote my first book, it was about dragons, you know, talk about fantasy and escapism, you know, But I think that's where it came from, was just learning that your imagination is so incredibly powerful that when reality is tough escape to your imagination. So I always knew if I wrote a book, it would be definitely fiction and it would be fantasy. And after I wrote my first book, my own father read it, you know, and he was not a big reader, so the fact that he read it was really neat. And he said after he read the book, now I understand why you watch Star wars so many times. He said, I can definitely see its impact, its influence on your writing. And I said, yeah, you know, I, I escaped all those movies, Steven Spielberg, George Lucas movies, all those movies were all about escapism. So that's kind of where it came from. Because I did art first, I was always an artist, but I knew if I ever wrote anything, it would be fiction and it would be fantasy. Just that escapism, you know.

A (17:08)

Well, because you were an artist. So that would be the natural path of an artist, is to write about fantasy, is creating your own versus non fiction. I, I wouldn't even know where to begin with fiction as a non fiction writer myself. So then, then do you teach others about the fiction journey?

B (17:27)

Yes. I was a writing teacher for middle school for about four years and now my podcast is about helping others with the writing craft, the publishing industry. And I interview a lot of authors, so we discuss the writing process. I do workshops too, at conferences and online. So I want to help people understand that. I know writing is work and a lot of people, they don't want to even attempt it. You know, videos and things like that are much easier. But storytelling is something that we all have. I'm sure you had a grandma who told stories and I had grandmas who did. It's a part of us. Even with non fiction books, you're still taking your readers on a journey. You're still telling a story, just in a different way. So with writing a book, it always starts with that foundation. What's your idea? Who are your readers? What do you want to tell them? And then you just start from there. So, yeah, I do like to teach workshops. When I taught my students in middle school, they would always, you know, roll their eyes. We have to write an essay or we have to write a story, you know, so I try to make it fun and exciting for them. And, and that's what it's about is just realizing that writing a story can be fun.

A (18:46)

It can be. And I know that I wrote some stories when I was a kid and, and it was required out of a writing class, just making something up. And I had a relationship with my pet condor that was, I had a pit pondor. I don't know where that came from, but I thought a cool bird with a long wingspan, you know?

B (19:11)

Yeah.

A (19:12)

Oh, my gosh. You know, the, the, the creativity of a child. Cool. So you, you have your podcast. What's the podcast name?

B (19:20)

It's called a Writer's Day Podcast, and I named it that because a writer's day is so different in that we're always thinking of our story, we're always brainstorming, we're listening and observing for things that we're going to put into our stories. So that's why I called it a Writer's Day. And you can find it on Spotify and Apple podcasts, wherever you listen to your podcasts.

A (19:43)

How has AI affected the writer's journey in both fiction and nonfiction? Yeah, I was just three years now.

B (19:51)

I know. I was just interviewing a nonfiction author about that. I was asking her about it and she has her own publishing company and she said she gets so many authors who just send her a manuscript that they used AI with. And she sends it right back and she says, nope, I want your words, not AI's words. So it has really affected the industry, both fiction and nonfiction. I always tell people, use it as a tool, not a crutch. And I've been to writers conferences where we're talking. Some really well known authors get up there and say, I use AI. I use it to write scenes. I use it to edit my book. And I cringe because I'm thinking, no, don't depend on it that much. Use a, an editor who is a human being. That's a much better editor than AI. But yeah, I always suggest use it because it's not going away. It's like the Internet. Remember in 1999?

A (20:44)

Oh, I remember.

B (20:44)

Oh, the Internet's going away. AI is here to stay, and it's just going to get stronger and stronger. So use it, train it, learn how to use it. I use it to help me brainstorm stories. I just, I'm writing a book right now. I just asked AI today to Help me figure out some conflict for a story, things like that. And it knows my stories, it knows my voice. So I always remind it, you know, keep my voice in mind, write it in my voice, that kind of stuff. And it does. So use it, train it, but don't use it as a crutch. Write your story and use it just as a tool, a writing tool.

A (21:25)

You know, I've written 18 books myself over the years. I haven't published that well, just a few. I never had AI until recently. And just as you said, I use it as an ideation tool to come up with ideas. And then when I prompt it correctly, saying omit EM dashes, because that's a dead giveaway. And write it in a way that is undetectable from AI detection software.

B (21:52)

Yeah, use my voice and make it undetectable. Get rid of those EM dashes, watch the filler words, all that kind of stuff. And it'll start to sound more like you because you're training it to be you.

A (22:05)

Yeah, yeah. And. But it's a great editing tool and it saves time. It's a big time saver and comes up with ideas. I mean, it's just a lot smarter than most of us.

B (22:15)

Yeah.

A (22:16)

And you know, you can tap into Einstein anytime you want, just without his M dashes. And then you. And then you're.

B (22:25)

You're good.

A (22:26)

So the. Your podcast is called again, the A Writer's Day. Okay, show us some of your books, Ruth.

B (22:34)

Oh, yeah, here's my latest. It's Fatal Standoff, and it's book two in my Desert Shadow suspense series. And book three. Oh, my gosh, I love writing suspense. Oh, I have found my niche. It's just amazing. I'll always write a dragon book. I have one coming out next year. But I'm sticking with suspense right now. It's so much fun. So I'm writing another suspense called A Shadow of Hope, and that comes out in April. And you can pre register, pre order that. And then. Yeah. So I'll always have a dragon book and a dragon coloring book as well. Those will come out later this year, but for now, I'm going to stick with suspense. I have about two more suspense books coming out.

A (23:13)

So here's the interesting fact about authors. Most, if they can write a book, end up writing the book. And they feel like they've birthed their baby. They've sat with it for nine months. It's out of their body relief now. You got to feed it. It's a lot more than Gerber's. You Got to feed it, you got to change its diaper. Now the real work begins. When I refer to book writing. You've birthed the book, you've written it, it's finally been edited, it's done. You've got an ISBN number, it's up on Amazon, but there the real work begins. Now you got to work for reviews. You've got to worry about sales because most. Because friends and family wear out very quickly.

B (24:01)

That's right.

A (24:02)

What have you done in order to create best selling books? Because that in itself is a major. That's the heavy lifting as far as I'm concerned.

B (24:11)

Yeah, I was blessed to have my first Christmas novel that I wrote two years ago I put out an Amazon ad. I tried it and it worked. It became a best seller. That was huge for me. Unfortunately, a lot of my readers are in their 50s and 60s so they don't leave a lot of reviews. So please leave reviews. But yeah, it became this bestseller and I couldn't believe it. And then I re released it six months later at July, you know, the July and Christmas in July thing. And it became a bestseller again. So I highly recommend trying ads. I do Facebook ads now and every once in a while an Amazon ad because it depends on your budget, but you can really get your book in front of a lot of readers that way. So Facebook ads, yeah, that worked really well for me last Christmas. I released a cozy mystery Christmas book at Christmas time and did a Facebook ad and it became a bestseller. So yeah, I highly recommend those. To get your books in front of people.

A (25:10)

Do you follow a methodology for Facebook ads? Did you learn it yourself or did you hire a specialist? What did you do?

B (25:17)

Yeah, I kind of followed what other folks are doing, but. And then I kind of just tweaked it for myself. I mostly just do Instagram and Facebook. It'll appear in Instagram stories and then it'll appear on Facebook. When you're browsing, you'll see an ad. But you can also do reels, which are videos. You can do that for Instagram and then you can also do videos for Facebook.

A (25:38)

And TikTok I heard is a great way.

B (25:40)

Yes, and TikTok too. So I'm going to try that next time. I have to go by my budget. And that's another thing for indie authors. Make sure you have a budget and you know what your book sales are every year. So you have to stay within your budget. I also do book events, so I go to like three or four events a year. So I have to budget for that too. So I only have so much space in my budget for ads, but now that they're starting to work for me, I'm going to start to increase my budget and use those more often.

A (26:07)

Do you have a positive return on your ad spend? I mean, do you make more money? Are you at least breaking even?

B (26:15)

Yeah, for the first time last year, I made money. The years before, I always just broke even. But last year with that bestseller Christmas novella, I made money. So that got my husband excited. And so now I'm going to do an LLC and become my own little business and put my podcast under that as well and just see how the next years go. And then when I become a grief coach, I'll start writing the non fiction books and maybe a podcast about that too. Yeah, and we'll see how that goes.

A (26:44)

And how long have you been podcasting?

B (26:47)

I started in 2019 on a whim because I had left the classroom, but I had a whole bunch of lessons. And so I thought, well, I'll just teach online, you know, on my podcast, I'll just do some writing lessons. So I did that, and then I started having friends who are authors contact me and ask if they could be in my podcast to talk about their books. So I did that, and then I had publishers contact me and say, hey, can I send you some of our authors? And I said, sure. So I've been doing podcasts for Revelle and Baker and Bethany and Tyndale authors for about four years now, and they always send me their authors. And it's so much fun. I get to meet these amazing people who encourage me, and then they in turn do favors for me and help promote my book. So it's kind of fun.

A (27:34)

Oh, that's great. Now these are non. These are fiction publishers.

B (27:37)

Yeah, these are fiction publishers.

A (27:38)

Yes. Yeah.

B (27:39)

Sometimes they'll send me their non fiction every once in a while. Yeah.

A (27:42)

Okay. Because I had not heard of any of those names. I, I, Look, I'm. I'm 100 in the non fiction world.

B (27:48)

Yeah, they're big in the Christian historical romance fiction books, those folks.

A (27:54)

Okay, well, it's, they're all different genres and it's.

B (27:57)

Yeah, yeah.

A (27:58)

Because most of the people I interview are authors themselves or in the author space want publicity to go further. So is writing, have writing books been more of a personal satisfaction or do you actually make a profit with it?

B (28:15)

Yeah, the last couple years I hired a virtual assistant and she has actually helped me make a profit from it now. So my, my accountant is like, yay, yippee. You're finally making money off of this. So I said, I know. I feel like it's a business now and then Pod Match has really helped too. Every, I interview folks and, and am interviewed like you, I sell books. So there. It just feels like for the last three years it's finally become a real life business and not just a hobby, you know. So yeah, it's been exciting. I, I, I don't know how much longer I'll do it, but so far it's been so much fun. So I'll keep going.

A (28:52)

Well, have you, you, you said Facebook ads? Because it's all about the marketing of the books and I'm, I don't think it's going to differ between non fiction, fiction, Facebook outperforms, Amazon ads.

B (29:04)

I don't know about outperforms, but it did for me. I did Amazon for three books and I had so, so until that Christmas one that exploded. But then I did another couple of ads on Amazon that didn't go anywhere. So I switched to Facebook and boom, it just took off. So I'm going to stick with Facebook. They're a little cheaper, a little less expensive than Amazon and, but I might go back and forth too. So it really depends on the author, their budget, the genre, whether it's fiction or non fiction and you know, where they feel most comfortable. It's entirely up to them. But you're right, just because you publish a book, you know, you still got to market it. Unfortunately for independent authors, it's all on us. So we have to get out there and try things.

A (29:52)

Okay, well, great. One more time. Where do they get in touch with you? Ruth?

B (29:58)

You can go to my website@artbyruth.com and it's art by Ruth because that's how I first started was an artist, so I kept the name, you know, artbyruth.com you can sign up for my newsletter. I give away a book every month and that way you'll learn about my upcoming projects. You can follow me on Amazon, you know, you can click on Follow the Author. That's a great way to stay in touch with what the author is going to be releasing or, and also on my website you can see all my artwork, my dragon books, my coloring books, so. And also listen to my podcast from there too. So I'm also on Instagram and Facebook too.

A (30:36)

All right, well, great. Thank you so much for your time today. You've, you've opened my eyes to what's possible. I, I don't hear too many using Facebook ads. And you actually had a positive return on ad spend. That matters. A lot of people are going to be interested to follow you and and learn more about that. And I'm gonna start listening to your podcast because I love hearing about the author journey. And thank you so much for your time today. Ruth.

B (31:02)

Thank you Mitch. I appreciate it.

A (31:04)

Thanks for tuning in to the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to MitchCarson.com until next time, stay amazing.