A (3:12)

All right, well, I'm going to walk through something that we're all familiar with today. We'll jump in to the last one. Last. But at one time, communication was physical, and it was the horse and buggy. Then I went to postal mail. The mailman will deliver, come home, you know, sleet or snow, rain, doesn't matter, show up. Then I went to telex and. And then, you know, there was the Morse code at one time. Then the fax machine. Oh, my gosh, the big one. AOL came out with a little CD in a box. And you set that up and there was email. You've got mail. That was the sound of the robot. And then today, we're in a totally different era. Is email dead as the communication, or is there something after email that'll replace it?

B (4:04)

Yeah, there's. Oh, my gosh. It's still a huge part of my life, I can tell you that.

A (4:08)

Mine, too.

B (4:10)

Just before we hopped on, I was deleting a zillion emails. So I don't think that's going away anytime soon. But I'm a big proponent of, whenever possible, sitting in a room with people face to face and having an actual conversation versus sending an email. Oh, my God, for everything. But it's. Hey, I know, it's a revolutionary idea, right? But you get so much more done. You accomplish more, you understand more, you connect more. It's not that much different than what we do with brands. You mentioned all of these different iterations of how branding have rolled out that align with the evolution you were talking about in communications, where we're so digital right now and there's so much clutter. I mean, think about how many digital messages we see in a day, in half a day. It's absolutely overwhelming. And we've learned to tune it out. But the thing is, you can cut through that pretty easily if you talk to people like their people, which sounds obvious, but a lot of marketing agencies don't do that. They speak to people like their demographics or focus groups or a target segment. And that's important stuff to know. But then you have to take a step back and speak to them on their platform, where they are in a way that is human and personable. It's not that hard to do, but it's hard to. To convince large corporations to do that sometimes,

A (5:34)

you know, communicate. You said you're a big fan of Face to Face. In my generation, and I grew up as a baby boomer, we picked up the phone and called people today. To call somebody on the phone, you have to ask their permission. God forbid you make a video call to somebody. Oh, that's so rude. Shouldn't you ask? No, it's not rude. That's how we get to know each other. And. And I insist on it. I mean, Zoom is, oh, okay, we have to go to Zoom. Why not just pick up the phone and FaceTime or something? You see who you're talking to now, that's a mode of communication. How does that tie into personal branding or branding in general and.

B (6:18)

Oh, absolutely. So, you know, let's get. Let's talk about personal branding for a second. Because it's the same principles and concepts just applied to your life rather than your business. It's something I've utilized in my life with great results, and it just helps you sharpen your focus in terms of what's my mission, what's my vision, what's my purpose for being, what's my big why? Who's my audience? Who do I want to surround myself with? Who do I not want to be around? Who are the folks that I want to keep at arm's distance to protect the culture that I've built either in my family, my friends, or my workplace? And then it just goes on and on from there. Throughout the brand checklist, it's really almost all applicable to our lives as much

A (7:00)

as it is to business and your. Where did this start for you? I mean, did you one day decide, oh, when I grow up, I want to be a brand specialist, I want to be a creative. Did you clip on your earrings and. And a ponytail in order to get creative, or do you rub on tattoos? What is it that gets you inspired, Christian?

B (7:23)

It was a beret and a striped shirt. If I remember something.

A (7:26)

I mean, you got to get into. Into the zone.

B (7:29)

So I'm a weird case, and I joked with a friend at lunch on Friday that I should never tell this story because no one will want to hire me. But I grew up in a tiny little mill town in North Carolina, just a few thousand people, and had no idea this is pre Internet, so there's. You can't just get online and look up everything.

A (7:46)

Sure.

B (7:46)

I had no idea that branding was something people did for a living. You know, the only branding I saw were handmade signs at the convenience store, which were gorgeous, or, you know, a Doritos bag, which just feels like it was spit out of a machine. It doesn't feel like a person made that. So I never made that connection. Went to college, was taking a bunch of art classes and a bunch of writing classes and thinking, man, these are two things I love. But I wish there was some way they lived together. Well, turns out they. They do. And that's what I do for a living now. Founded at the very end of school at the University of North Carolina. Had the epiphany that this is what I wanted to do. I was overjoyed. But then the second epiphany was I had no skill set, so I had to go to grad school to kind of learn branding.

A (8:27)

And then you went to New York.

B (8:29)

I did. I worked at an agency called Pentagram in New York, which was a really formative experience for me. I learned more there in eight months than I probably learned in all, you know, six years of schooling I had done.

A (8:42)

I would tend to agree. That's called hand on, hands on experience. How long did you spend there?

B (8:48)

I was there about a year and a half, two years, all the way through. But after Pentagram, I took a job that was sort of recommended to me by a friend of a friend. It looked great on paper, and it was absolutely awful. It was just, you know, six, seven days a week, 16 hours a day. Just brutal New York work ethic. And I just got burned out.

A (9:10)

And was that the origin of creating Helms trainings?

B (9:15)

No, I actually. I came down to Austin for a creative conference, fell in love with the place. You know, the beer was cheap, the music was good, the neon signs were amazing. There's a trail that runs around town Lake. I was just like, this is paradise. And so I moved down here and didn't know a soul. Got a job at an amazing agency called McGarra Jesse, and then eventually went out on my own.

A (9:37)

Any regrets?

B (9:40)

Oh, I'm sure plenty. I've ended up in a wonderful place, but I think I could have gotten there twice as fast had I done some things differently. It's the nature of learning. I was the kid in art and writing classes making fun of my friends in business school because they were in boring business school when I was in college. And then I had to give myself an education in running a business as I started the agency.

A (10:03)

Now, what? Typically, people start their own business because they're frustrated with how Things are run. I mean, this little bit of my story in there, why I went the entrepreneurship route. And I was also just plain unemployable due to my personality profile. In your case, did you start your business because you felt you could do it better? Did you want the freedom or is there another reason?

B (10:32)

Freedom. I felt pretty siloed. Just the structure and nature of the agency I was at. I cannot stress enough. It's a wonderful agency, but I was a pretty low level design employee and was kind of tasked with one narrow sort of range of work. And I wanted to do more. I wanted to be more of the ideation and concept process and the big ideas and not just the kind of last step of execution. And nobody would let me do it because I hadn't done it before. So you have to kind of jump out on your own and find or make those opportunities to do it a few times and do it well. And then people see that and suddenly, oh, they realize you can do it and they'll hire you to, to come on board with their brand.

A (11:11)

Well, there's that great show that was on tv, had a, a series. It took place I think in the 50s. It was. Somebody hatched played Modern Men or something. Men Admin. Yeah.

B (11:26)

Mad Men's fantasy Madman.

A (11:27)

Yes, yes, yes. That was a great show. All typified what happened in the 50s, 60s, and that certain people at the top are the ones that ideate and then there are the minions that support it. And you all, you have to kiss a lot of butt to get to where you can then become the brand ambassador, if you will.

B (11:51)

It's the traditional agency model for sure. I always tell folks that what we do is very much almost exactly like Mad Men, except people aren't drinking six martinis and punching an art director. Otherwise very similar.

A (12:03)

And what, what do you do now that's different?

B (12:07)

Oh my gosh. Well, we have a very lateral structure at the agency. There is a hierarchy of, you know, leadership, but it's a very, it's. We're 16 folks, so we're still at a size where we can be an absolute collective force and everybody has a voice at the table. My head of production, Crystal, can have as big an opinion as I do on something and I really enjoy that. I've been fortunate enough over the years to surround myself with absolutely exceptional human beings who are really good at what they do. So I'm generally overjoyed when they have an idea that I didn't think of because it's fresh and interesting and different and that's part of the fun for me.

A (12:47)

Are you virtual or do you actually report to an office?

B (12:50)

We are in an office. Yeah, we were virtual for a bit around the pandemic. Honestly, I was going to say it took us a while to find a space and now we're kind of in a flex model where generally folks are in the office three, four days a week and then can work from home other days. So we give our team a good bit of freedom there and as long as they take care of what they need to do, you know, if they want to work at 3 in the morning, they can work at 3 in the morning.

A (13:12)

So you don't push 16 hour days like the New York grind.

B (13:16)

No, I mean, how much of a hypocrite would I be if I left New York because I was getting hammered and then came down here and just did it to a bunch of other people? So, no, we are a very people forward agency. Fiercely protect our culture. Great, you know, benefits and fringe benefits for the team. And really, you know, I hate the, the thing where, you know, our team's like a family because it's not, it's like an elite sports team. I believe there's an Amazon talk on that. And sometimes people show up, sometimes people go and move on and retire, go to other teams. That's all part of it. But when we're locked in, we are an absolute team with no weak links and it's fantastic.

A (13:59)

Who inspired you to go out and do this on your own? Did you walk out with any clients or did you start from scratch? Did people say, hey, go start your agency and I'll go with you or something else?

B (14:13)

I'm way too risk averse for just jumping out there saying I'm starting an agency and then hoping people show up. That's terrifying to me. I was doing a lot of freelance work in the music industry and that just kind of swelled to a volume where I could transition off and know that I had a client base and then start to build more traditional brand work on top of that.

A (14:35)

All right, so you had extra outside of the agency, people hired you to do things, so you had a cushion at least.

B (14:43)

Exactly.

A (14:44)

Did you have a family at this point?

B (14:46)

Thank God, no. That would have made the decision so much tougher. Right. I was, it was just me. I had not even met my wife yet or actually I had just met my wife when I made the decision. But I didn't have the mortgage and the, you know, the, the overhead that makes it ten times more terrifying. So it was Much easier to jump early. Although again, probably a longer road. Who knows if I would have done it if I'd waited until now, you know,

A (15:16)

who knows? Like I said, the crystal ball you took off your head. Where are we going? All right, now let's talk about the big topic. How is AI affecting your business? I. Are you losing clients because of AI? Is it. Is it eradicating the need for a creative agency? Because there are all these AIs out there for $30 a month that'll give you the whole ad roll that you need?

B (15:39)

Purportedly, not yet, thankfully.

A (15:42)

Okay.

B (15:43)

And I'm sure we're losing some people who might, you know, consider us to AI at this point, but they're not people who are looking for a highly designed, highly articulated, highly strategic brand. They're looking for cool visuals that can churn out pretty quickly that don't necessarily tie to what their offering is or what their values or all those things are. That said, AI is absolutely part of the conversation right now in what we're doing. We use it for all sorts of simple tasks, but we also keep it at arms length in some ways as well. One of the things that I try to remind my team, and we're in the process of articulating and writing out kind of our stance on AI at the moment. AI is a tool. You can use it to build something, you can use it to break something. But the way the language learning models work right now, they are at best a summary of everything that's out there. Well, if it's already out there, then it's not a unique, compelling idea. Right, Right. It's going to be old data.

A (16:47)

It's all data.

B (16:47)

Right. But it's not going to be. Nobody's going to come up with something revolution through AI, because AI won't jump that far yet. No, they don't have that audacity. And audacity is an important part of this process. You know, you gotta take big swings and then look back and say, strategically, does this fit or is it a great idea that needs to live somewhere else one day? And funny enough, you know, you asked if we're losing business from AI. We just won business from AI. We were in a huge pitch for a big brand refresh for one of the Anheuser Busch and Bev brands. And we were the only agency that did work that wasn't all AI, like ours was. We did the work that was part of the assignment to be evaluated, and all of the three other agencies used AI for everything. And it just didn't quite hit, you know, it was, it was kind of slick and interesting, but it just, it didn't have the level of insider craft that, that these folks were looking for. So that was sort of reassuring and was a fun development.

A (17:50)

And how do you as an agency use AI today? I mean, there's one thing, like you said very accurately, it is a summary tool. It'll take all the data that's available online, possibly in some cases offline somewhere, the data and it draws conclusions. It doesn't say, this is where we're going, this is where you need to go. It's based on results of the past and almost up to the present.

B (18:15)

It's obviously fantastic for research. If you want to compile a ton of information and not do what I used to do, we just go through a zillion different articles and kind of, you know, cobble it together myself. It can do that in a heartbeat and give you at least a baseline understanding of something that you can then start to expand on. So it gets used for that a lot. We use it for product mockups. We are, we do a lot of consumer packaged goods work. So that's packaged food, every, every kind of thing that comes in a package essentially. And for say, mock ups that you need to show the work that you've done on something that looks more realistic, it can be useful for that as well. So there are all these little places we're starting to utilize it and I think everyone in the agency uses it a little bit differently right now. Some folks very much embrace it, some folks are very wary of it, but it's usually in the lower level. I don't want to say administrative, but you know, sort of the grunt work you have to do that if it just showed up, it wouldn't hurt your process at all. It would just be sort of a bonus and a boost. And so we use it for things like that.

A (19:18)

All right, so ideation tool, just preliminary maybe to expand some creativity a little

B (19:25)

bit or to show it can be every so often it will bring you some perspectives that you maybe weren't considering and then you need to set that aside and really consider them and see if there's something there. But yeah, it's a great generation tool for all sorts of different research and data that can feel what you do. Game

A (19:45)

that is a, an accurate perspective in my opinion. I mean, it's just, it's all opinions that this, it's an accurate perspective. I mean it's been with us for about three years now actively with starting with chat, GPT and then it's evolved over these last three years where it's a big part. I, I'm in chat GPT literally every day in some capacity, you know, and it just helps. But I also edit and work with it. And you have. It's a necessary tool, a way to, to be organized and organize thoughts is there. But the creativity in your. How many people are in the creative area and how many people are in production out of the 16 employees?

B (20:28)

Oh, yeah. So 16 folks total. There are two in production, there are six in creative and then writers, digital developers, brand managers, et cetera.

A (20:40)

And where do you find yourself most of the time in which. Which role, capacity?

B (20:48)

It changes by the moment. It seems like one minute I'm a new business guy, the next minute I'm a creative director, the next minute I'm a writer. It really just depends. But I honestly enjoy that variety. I'm not great at singular monotonous tasks. So I like the, the, the spinning multiple plates thing.

A (21:07)

Well, that's a business owner. That's a small business owner. And yeah, you know, you know, my background just. It's almost at the same level. I had 16 employees. I ran an ad agency. I sold in 19. No, when it was a 2006, I sold it to a company called Halo Branded Solutions. It was a pup. It's still a publicly traded company, largely in the specialty advertising arena. That was the, the niche we were in. And direct mail products, which are now whole. You know, very few people are embracing direct mail, but that was my, my niche. And I found that there was. I love selling and I like the creativity. Running accounting. Oh,

B (21:53)

we're on the same page. That's not the part I want to do.

A (21:57)

No, and there's that. You're at that point where you're still a small business. You got to manage personalities. The hardest job was personnel and dealing with drama and quibbling and all of these things, so. But when you're running a business, do you have them solve their own issues? Because I found by far my biggest issue was people and payrolls.

B (22:25)

I'm the exact opposite. The one thing I don't worry about at our agency is people. We are so fiercely protective of our culture. And if we're hiring someone new, my team weeds out the bad apples long before they get to me. I can't tell you the number of times we've had, say we're hiring a designer and we have our top three that we're looking at, you know, just the best portfolios, just killer work. And then my team will meet with them and say, these, the first two on our list, the best two aren't, aren't the fit for this agency. They're toxic, or they, you know, they're not in it for the right reasons or yada, yada, yada. And so, you know, Even though it's 16 folks, it's 16 folks who are really, really aligned, and we have a really well articulated culture that people are either really attracted to or it sounds terrible to them. And that's great. That's kind of the polarization you want. So I have exceptional human beings who are great at what they do. We are very low ego. We're zero drama. It really is a supportive and sort of uplifting place. It's crazy. I absolutely just. I'm so thankful for it.

A (23:32)

And how did you create this culture? Or did it evolve organically?

B (23:38)

I would love to say that I went through the branding exercise and had it all written out to indoctrinate the team as they showed up, but it really was organic over time. It's doing the right things. It's treating your team with respect. It's eschewing clients who don't treat your team with respect. It's all these little things that eventually laddered up to creating a culture that we then went in and defined more specifically as a team in our company handbook, et cetera.

A (24:11)

Do you have a personnel director?

B (24:15)

No, we're not that big. We do, but that's not his official title. He does a little bit of everything really well. So Ryan, our brand manager, would probably be considered the personnel director.

A (24:27)

Okay. All right. Well, because I can relate wholeheartedly to where you are in your evolution, because you mentioned that I would probably come up with an idea about where revenues are, where they should be according to the business model. I also went to business school, and it kept looking at, okay, you got to make a hundred thousand per head or, or you're. You're not doing right. And. But it all varies based on those. Those different numbers. Where do you want to go?

B (24:57)

Oh, my gosh. I want to keep this as perfect as it is for as long as I can. I do see some growth. We're starting to work with bigger brands. We just did a big project with Disney. Um, so we're seeing more and more big brands come to us, which is fantastic. So I think as those opportunities continue to develop, we may need to scale a bit. But I don't see us being 50 people in two years. It will stay, ideally, it will stay small enough that we can keep Doing the work we want to do. We're a little smaller than we could be, so we can be picky and choosy. And so it's important for me to keep that and the culture and the things that make this thing what it is. So really it's about just doubling down on the things that make us us and just continuing to refine it and make it better and better.

A (25:48)

If someone comes to you in this, how do you handle telling a client or sharing with a client, look, the product or category is dead. You cannot beat this, this horse anymore. Horses and buggies are out. If you're in the buggy whip business, you're going to have a hard time with revenues. I mean, I could take and create all the beautiful campaigns for you and we can go online to sell your buggy whips. But your category is good for the history museum.

B (26:20)

Yeah, it's definitely a conversation we've had a number of times and we're pretty brutally honest about that stuff. You know, if our job is to be an advocate and a partner for our clients, then some hard truths, you know, I would rather hear it at the beginning than once you've launched the company that, hey, I never really thought that would be a thing. So we have those conversations, we dig into, you know, the business model and distribution and all these things as part of the new business process just to get an eyeball on whether this thing is viable or not. And at this point, we've seen the good, the bad and the ugly. You know, we've seen absolutely brilliant stuff come through the door and we've seen some really passionate, amazing folks who were just not aligned with the best market for them. And we absolutely have that conversation.

A (27:07)

Have you what, what is a stellar success recently?

B (27:14)

We just did a huge brand refresh for Legacy Brewery in Calgary up in Alberta, Canada, called Big Rock. Um, and they were, you know, they started in the 80s. They were a big deal then. And then just over time, things kind of slumped off and it became less and less a part of the conversation and sales really dwindled and so they were in a pretty tough spot as a company and, you know, asked us to come on board and help refresh, refine and relaunch the brand. And you know, it's, they're kind of white knuckling it at that point. They're like, this has to work. It's a huge deal. This isn't a luxury, it's a necessity for us right now.

A (27:58)

Were they are micro brewer by category? Is that what they're Called.

B (28:01)

They're a craft brewery. So their volume is pretty substantial. So they're, you know, not as big as a Bud Light or a Bush Light or something like that, but sizable numbers.

A (28:11)

What sizable? Just so the listeners can understand, I don't know the beer industry, so I'm going to be the devil's advocate here, or the curious listener.

B (28:21)

I hate that. I can't remember how many barrels per year they do, but it would be comparable to something like Boulevard or one of the bigger breweries. Bigger craft breweries in the U.S. you

A (28:32)

know what I meant? I'm sorry, I didn't ask the right question. There are microbreweries, which by definition would be a smaller brewery, maybe local, in a regional area. Then what is a craft brewer?

B (28:43)

I don't know what that craft brewery is. Essentially, it's similar. It's interesting because it's this terminology people use in a lot of different ways. But yes, a craft brewery is brewing more complex beers with more unique ingredients, I would say. Okay, okay. But they may distribute all across Canada. You know, they're not a. They're not tied to one geography necessarily. And so. So they're national, bit like that. Yeah.

A (29:09)

So they're national, but not international. They don't cross over to the US

B (29:13)

they don't cross over to the US And I don't even think they go to the far reaches of, like, Toronto just because of the landscape up there is so weird and wonderful that you kind of pick your footprint that you can service and then they will grow beyond that event eventually. But it's important not to stretch too far. But that brand refresh went fantastic. Their sales jumped 47% after we did the work. And we're working with them on a bunch of other stuff right now because they love us and we love them. So it's a big victory for us.

A (29:44)

47. Over what period of time in the quarter after.

B (29:49)

They're. Yeah, comparing the quarter before, the quarter after. Yeah, come together.

A (29:54)

I mean, that's.

B (29:55)

I know.

A (29:55)

See, that's.

B (29:56)

Proud of that stuff as I am anything. Right, well.

A (29:58)

Well, that's 47% for a white knuckling. Or they were on the verge of, hey, we're in might be in trouble numbers and 47% jump in revenue in the first quarter. What did you do specifically? I'm curious.

B (30:14)

And our listeners, all these things that I've been talking about, we got, you know, we spent a lot of time up there. We dug in to understand their history and their culture and their brewing philosophy and how they relate to Calgary and then Alberta and then Canada, and just really became ingrained where we could internalize what they're about. And then we took that and translated it into really wild, expressive packaging that has sort of the spirit of Alberta, but also the grit of Calgary and the sort of rustic landscape. And then really bold, fun messaging that just kind of reannounced that we're back, you know, that we were cool before. Craft beer was cool, and it really resonated with folks.

A (30:59)

So it. It. Did it embody Canadian pride. And because they are different, you don't want to say, hey, you're just America, just a little north of us.

B (31:09)

Right.

A (31:09)

Did you incorporate that component into the rebrand?

B (31:13)

Absolutely. A lot of pride in Alberta, A lot of messaging that speaks to Alberta and Calgary. But you have to be careful with that stuff as well, because it's really easy when you're talking about something like Canadian pride to fall into a bunch of tropes and cliches, as, you know.

A (31:29)

Okay.

B (31:30)

Where, you know, I mean, the number of things you see roll into Austin, where it's like a guitar and a cowboy boot, you're like, I mean, it's beaten to death, right? It's. It's a cliche for a reason. So you have to find sort of the intersection between pride and Big Rock and what they do and their people and the place that they do it. And it creates kind of this hybrid thing that relates to both, but isn't one singular kind of onenote solution.

A (31:57)

Did you create a new slogan for them? Was there a new USP? I mean, what. What did you do that? I mean, 47%. I'm curious as heck how you did

B (32:06)

a ton of brand language. We're working on some campaign work for them right now and helped them. I believe they actually refreshed the website, but helped them with a ton of copy. And, you know, I think part of it, the part that maybe I love the most, is it really reinvigorated their team internally, where I think, you know, the morale had kind of slumped some. And all of a sudden, they had this awesome new set of tools to play with and work with. And so they're extending things out to, you know, social media and things that we're not working on. And it's great. Like, they're. They're all so excited when we get on calls, and they were, you know, in the beginning, pretty reticent. Like, they were scared to do this thing, and now it's all just hugs and high fives. So it's a lot of fun.

A (32:53)

Well, sales had to have been inspired. So were there. Is it a rep organization or direct sales or what was it that caused that huge change? That's a major shift. That's 50%.

B (33:05)

They definitely put some media behind relaunching the brand. Okay. And spread the word, you know, outside of that really organically and just really kind of grabbed Calgary in an amazing way. And like I said, people just really reacted.

A (33:19)

What media did you embrace?

B (33:22)

So we were primarily focused on brand strategy, packaging, identity, ancillary things. Outside of that, we gave them a toolkit to work on social media, and then we've worked on a lot of digital campaign work for them as part of the. The launch and then the rollout of a few new products or another brand refresh we're doing for another one of their brands.

A (33:45)

And what about tv, radio, any of the traditional or print or is that passe today?

B (33:52)

It's definitely not passing. Gosh. I used to do TV spots, you know, earlier in my career, and it's less and less these days. I do have a sweet spot for radio, and we have done radio ads over the years that it just offers unique opportunities. I think it's just super fun and it speaks back to the history of broadcasting. I was journalism major, so there's a lot of love there. But we don't do a lot of radio or TV these days. It's. It's mostly digital communication.

A (34:22)

Is it because there's no ROI return on ad spend or roas is negative or. Or is it just because clients don't want it? What's the reality?

B (34:34)

I think it's because the cost is so much bigger going in that it does, you know, it does make a return tougher. And also, you know, our. Our viewing habits have fragmented so substantially. We used to live in a monoculture where everyone was watching the same three channels and listening to the same three radio stations. Right now you can. If I'm into baking Swedish pretzels, like there's a whole channel for me just to watch sweetest pretzel baking. So it's just fragmented and you can't grab everybody in the same way that you can on digital. The other thing is with digital, you're going to them where they live. People live on their phones. As much as it's a bad thing. Yes, they do. And rather than hoping they turn on their television, tune to the right channel at the right time. You can have a digital ad that shows up when they're ready and speaks to them on a platform that they are natively involved in. And it's just more, you know, it's more resonance, more opportunity.

A (35:31)

And yeah, unfortunately, I come from a television background also, and I miss it. But the truth is, even at my age, I don't watch TV anymore. I'll watch Netflix, but watching a traditional show that comes on at 7 o' clock on Sunday night, huddled with popcorn and butter and salt doesn't exist.

B (35:49)

It's just. And I miss that. We were joking the other day. I'm a huge college basketball fan. My son is as well. And we realized the other day we were watching a University of North Carolina game and we realized the only advertising we ever see in the wild anymore in terms of TV ads are during live sports. So it's either during football season, basketball season, or the Super Bowl. Outside of that, we stream everything except for the Olympics. That's kind of the great moment of the Olympics where all of a sudden everybody's tuned into the same stuff. I do love that moment.

A (36:24)

But those are the isolated events, just

B (36:26)

as you identify very much.

A (36:28)

It's for sports and people, for ego purposes. I don't think there's a positive roas by any stretch when they buy super bowl ads. That's a who's the most creative? Who's going to get the creative award. But does anybody roas on that?

B (36:45)

Yeah, it's not great. And I've had friends over the years who've done some awesome, awesome super bowl ads. I have a friend named Scott. He did an amazing kind of brand relaunch for an electronics brand that just broke the Internet and everyone loved. And then that place tanked. Like it went under like six months later, which is just. It's so sad. But if you are a creative, a true creative at heart, you would jump at the chance to do a Super bowl ad. It's one of those things like you would absolutely do it knowing there's no way you're going to see a return on that investment for your client in a substantial way to make it worth it. It's more of a flex at this point. Right. It's sort of a, a bragging rights thing. More than a tool to drive sales.

A (37:31)

Yeah, I would say it's branding, but not direct marketing where you can measure and not as easily as just as you said. All these different channels that you've selected. Who drinks this beer? Because this is one of your more recent success. Huge success. 47% increase in one quarter. Magnificent. What channels did you pick now? Who drinks that beer? Is it 18 year olds? I don't Know what the drinking age is in Canada? Is it 35 year olds?

B (38:04)

It's interesting. It's more in that 35 year old category. Within alcohol period. Beer, spirits, wine, etc. Nobody can seem to figure out what the. They call them LDA kids, legal drinking age kids. So what the 21 year olds want, because they have a million different choices and they may not want alcohol at all. They may want cannabis, they may want X, Y or Z.

A (38:29)

Right?

B (38:30)

So one, there's a huge drop in alcohol consumption with that age group. And two, people can't figure out what they want. And you see the biggest leap there between sort of more seasoned traditional marketing folks versus people who are more part of that culture. So we need more, more voices as part of that culture weighing in on what they actually want to hear, rather than a bunch of people my age guessing what they want to hear.

A (39:00)

And that is the beauty of advertising today. It's more challenging because like you said, there were three channels. That's where you had to advertise. There were a few radio stations. That's where you had to advertise. I mean, you could you negotiate the rate or if you had print, there was maybe the local newspaper in, in Austin, there might have been the Austin Chronicle. I don't even know the newspapers today, if they even exist. Do you use newspapers at all as a, a choice or is it. Or just brings a big smile.

B (39:30)

Yeah, it's. It's sad. Like I said, I was a journalism major and I. Me too, by the way, forever. Like the Sunday Times. Come on. It's the best. It's like that's your whole morning, you know, just wrapped up in this.

A (39:42)

On your fingers. Yeah.

B (39:43)

Oh, it's the best. And I've. Over the years, I've kind of moved past that and I'll pull up CNN or I'll pull up, you know, the New York Times app, or generally I'm looking at a bunch of them. But I miss that. Like I, I made the leap recently to stop buying tangible books and start reading on a tablet. And I was really conflicted about it and kind of bummed because I can't do it.

A (40:11)

I can't do it.

B (40:11)

I'm doing it now because I'm a voracious reader and just like the volume of books, because I'll read, if I get locked in on a series, I will read the entire series. Okay. And like that's like 23 books, right? Like, okay, 23 books. So eventually you've got to go to the tablet. But if it's a book that I know is important. I'm getting the hardback.

A (40:33)

Oh, hardback. Okay.

B (40:35)

If you're going to commit, commit, like, oh, okay.

A (40:38)

All right. Okay. All right.

B (40:39)

All right.

A (40:40)

Is there a book in you?

B (40:45)

Yes, I'm working on one. It's excruciating. It's. It's really. I would say 60% really good right now. And then the 40% is just killing me. So I am in the editing and refining and rewriting stage.

A (40:59)

What's it about?

B (41:00)

It is essentially a book on branding and how it can be your unfair advantage in the marketplace. And it's honestly just the amalgamation of all the advice that I've given clients over the years in terms of how to build their brands and businesses. You know, it's those things that, like, you realize you. That keep coming up in conversations over and over again, and they're these aha moments for your client partners. It's like, why not put those into a volume that people can read for themselves? So that's what I'm working on. That's the first time I've said that on any kind of broadcast, so got to make sure I finish it.

A (41:34)

Well, that's why Apprentice. Okay. It wasn't there, but I know most successful people memorialize their lives or show proof of. Okay, here's credentialing my situation or in documenting what. I've put together at least a series of case studies of clients. And it. And it feels good. It feels good. I work as a publicist, so I know this because I got into writing a book, and there were no sales. And then you had to figure out, okay, what's behind all of it. And writing a book is like birthing a child. Then you got to feed it.

B (42:12)

You do. Yeah. And I'm dreading that. Like, I don't anticipate sales. I just want to get the thing done and be proud of it and let it benefit the folks who it benefits. That said, once I'm done with it and I have a minute to breathe, I'm going to want to generate something sales and push it out. You know how it goes. Of course.

A (42:28)

Yeah. It's. And it's the best marketing tool, imagine, out there for the agency. Like, okay, the CEO wrote a book, so he does know the category, so that'd be great.

B (42:39)

And I mean, I'm turning 50 this year, so the timing is right. Right.

A (42:42)

It's okay. Perfect. Perfect.

B (42:44)

Christian, start to think about mortality. Better write a book, Christian.

A (42:47)

Where do people get a hold of you?

B (42:49)

We're online@helms workshop.com and then from there you can find us on Instagram, LinkedIn, all that fun stuff.

A (42:57)

YouTube?

B (42:58)

Not on YouTube.

A (43:00)

Okay, well, you don't need to be. And I think for now we'll see

B (43:06)

what the marketing team pushes me towards next.

A (43:08)

Yeah, well, you know you're not dancing videos on TikTok at this point. I don't know if that's in your near future.

B (43:14)

I will say there have been a couple of times in the past few weeks where I've pulled up Instagram reels just for a laugh and I see somebody I know like just really like selling hard on Instagram reels and it kind of freaks me out. I'm like, oh God, I don't know that I could do that.

A (43:32)

Okay, well, Christian, you've been a great guest. Thank you for all the gems you've shared with our listeners today. Helms workshops or workshop.com work singular, but

B (43:43)

we'll take whatever you got.

A (43:45)

Okay. Christian, thank you so much for your time today.

B (43:48)

Thanks Mitch. I really enjoyed it.

A (43:50)

Thanks for tuning in to the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to MitchCarson.com until next time, stay amazing.