Interviewer (2:49)

Is that worldwide or are you talking Canada and the U.S. that, that's, that's.

Kern Carter (2:53)

Those are global numbers.

Interviewer (2:54)

Global numbers.

Kern Carter (2:55)

Okay. So it's, It's a lot. It's a lot of books. Like, we're, we're. We're totally. And the generation, the Gen A, they're still reading physical books. Gen Z, still reading physical books. Like, there's no, There has not been any. Any change in behavior. It's just I, I call. I. I mean, sometimes I think it's just luck, you know, like the. Like. Right. Publishing has somehow survived the digital E. I just think that if I'm looking at it from a more practical perspective, I don't think that there is. I don't think any of the other mediums offer the same experience or offer. You know, I'm saying, like, reading a book is such a unique experience that reading, listening to the book is a different experience. Reading a digital book, an ebook, is also a different experience. It's just not the same immersion. So I honestly think it's that there's just something very magical about reading a physical book.

Interviewer (3:48)

Yeah. And I'm a baby boomer. You forgot that. Generation.

Kern Carter (3:51)

Y' all are the OGs, though. You're the OGs. I don't have to mention you. You. You guys set the tone.

Interviewer (3:56)

Yeah. Well, you know, if I don't. If I may. If I'm not able to do this and span. I feel like I'm not involved in it. And the same with newspapers. Well, don't exist much anymore. It's hard to consume a newspaper. And I was. That was a habit. It's just a matter of what you're accustomed to, your rituals and I've read some ebooks. I much prefer a physical book. Yeah, I much prefer. It's. It's a. Like I mentioned, a process. It's a ritual to be able to do that and maybe market. You can't market digital book the same way. I know there are programs that allow you to do it, but I prefer the physical. So show us a couple of your books that you've written. If you wouldn't mind talking about.

Kern Carter (4:35)

You want me.

Interviewer (4:35)

So, yeah, why not show it.

Kern Carter (4:38)

I got. So this is the first book. This is Boys and Girl Scream. This is my first published book. I love this book.

Interviewer (4:46)

I.

Kern Carter (4:46)

It's just, it's my. I know you're not supposed to have favorites, but for some reason I just like this one. I just love it. It's all imagination. And then this is. And then there's us. This, my second published novel. This one is the Penguin. Love this book. This one is one of my more popular books. This, then this one is with. I wrote one middle grade book too, so I got, I'm covering the gamut here. I got one middle grade book. This one's with Scholastic. This one's called Is There a Boy Like Me? This is actually my most popular book, believe it or not. Even though, like, you know, it's. I'm not. I don't consider myself a children's author. But hey, Scholastic came calling, I delivered. And then we have myself. Do I have myself? Let me just show you one more. I'll show you.

Interviewer (5:29)

Okay, sure.

Kern Carter (5:31)

I'll show you.

Interviewer (5:32)

I love show and tell.

Kern Carter (5:33)

You know, I'll show you my two self published books. So this is my first, first novel ever. So it's a novella. It's only 70 pages.

Interviewer (5:38)

That was a little fast. Thoughts of a Fractured Soul. Okay. Yeah.

Kern Carter (5:43)

First, first, first one. This one obviously is, is my entire heart. And this is my second self published book. It's like Beauty Scars. Beauty Scars. Yeah. So yeah, that's the, that's everything right there.

Interviewer (5:54)

And you mentioned before we began this interview, you've got your first non fiction piece coming out. Tell us about that. Because that's a big shift that's going from Republican to Democrat. It that extreme? I mean, I'm a non fiction writer and the idea of fiction scares me to the core. So I applaud you because they're totally different disciplines, aren't they?

Kern Carter (6:17)

Yeah, yeah. I've. I've written shorter nonfiction things before and I do a lot of. You know, I have a newsletter that, that does fairly well. So I'm accustomed to kind of sharing about my life. I've been doing it for a long time. I blog in the blogging era for a long time. So it's. It doesn't feel as big of a leap. It's still a book, so it is different. But yeah, it's a book. It's. It's about a lot of things, but if I had to choose something, I would. It's about decentering American culture. You know, I'm from Canada. I've been, I've been raised here. I came here when I was six. I was born in Trinidad, raised here.

Interviewer (6:52)

Where were you? Where were you born? Sorry, you said that in Trinidad. Oh, Trinidad, yeah.

Kern Carter (6:56)

Trinidad and Tobago.

Interviewer (6:57)

You're a Caribbean man.

Kern Carter (6:59)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, so I, I, I came over here in i6 and just like the influence of American culture has been so strong here. Like, it's, it's, it's incredible to think about. If I told you some stories about, you know, the books that we read growing up and the music that we listened to and, you know, everything was just like the TV we watched, everything was American. Like the most of it was American. So the book discusses that and also discusses like, language because there it discusses this, something that happened to me very early on in my life where I felt like I was silence because of the way I was judged, because of the way I spoke. And that silenced me. It like, it like legit, like literally actually made me a much more reserved person. And it took a long time for me to break through that silence. So I talk about language and its effect on me and, and I pair that with the, with the decentering of American culture. It's a, it's an interesting book. We'll see what happens.

Interviewer (7:58)

I'm curious. You're Canadian, you know, and Americans, we share a border. Culturally, we're very similar. There are a few language nuances. Like you say a boot, we say about, say resources, we say resources and you say A. And we might say. Right. You know, a few different small distinctions only we would pick up on as Canadians or Americans, you know, albeit Australians would no way be able to distinguish us as well as you. But we given so close or do that, but, but culturally we're more aligned. And I'm sharing this for people that are in Europe and Asia who may not understand how close America and Canada, you know, stand in, in terms of culture.

Kern Carter (8:47)

Yeah. So I, I mean, I would say yes and no. I would say yes in, in general culture. Like, you know, I think we're, we're a lot aligned and you know, we, we speak English as the main language, although we, we, we welcome multiculturalism and we appreciate that in different ways. But I, I think American culture is, is, is very specific and also very prominent. Like, I think, I think America's biggest export is, is their culture. You know, like you all have. If you think, if I think about movies, if I think about music, if I think about like just, just food. Like culture in general, America has just has captivated the world with the way that they may been able to impress those different things onto them. Canadian culture is a lit, is not as, let's say, aggressively public. You know, like, I feel like Canadians are much more reserved and. And timid in the way that we approach everything.

Interviewer (9:51)

Well, fear. Population difference. There's a large population difference. Yeah, there's a. I think it's ten times larger, roughly.

Kern Carter (9:59)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Like, I think America, California is the size of Canada. Of Canada in population. You know, we have about 40 million people, so it's. It's not.

Interviewer (10:08)

Yeah. Nine times larger. I think about now eight or nine times larger. I mean, land mass is different, but, yeah, the population is. Yeah, with about 345 million Americans that I.

Kern Carter (10:18)

It's a lot of Americans. That's a lot of people. Y' all got a lot of people out there, you know, but again, like, I think there. There are distinct cultural differences, because in America, there are. I think you can go coast to coast and experience a different. A different lifestyle. Like, you could live in New York and live in Idaho, and those are. Those are two different worlds. You know, you could live in. In South New Mexico and live in Connecticut and feel like you're in two different countries. You could go from another interesting thing that for Canadians, would not make any sense, but would make sense in America. A lot of Americans don't have passports. That would be a weird thing for.

Interviewer (10:54)

Canadian to believe that. I think only 20% have a passport smaller.

Kern Carter (11:00)

It's weird. Yeah. For us, that's not even, like, I don't know the exact number, but I'm gonna bet it's like 90 something percent that we have. Like, all of us have passports. You know, it's just a different culture. So there are some things that are uniquely American that are just. It's. It's cool to think about. And. Yeah, I. I'm going to examine it a little bit in that. In that book.

Interviewer (11:21)

Well, you won't need a passport. You'll have an American passport soon when you become our 51st state.

Kern Carter (11:30)

Hey, we don't even do that. I had. I had to slip that in. Good one. Good. I'll take it. I'll take it. I'll take it.

Interviewer (11:39)

And what. What do you do in your day job? I mean, you. You write books, don't you help other people in the process? And.

Kern Carter (11:46)

Yes.

Interviewer (11:47)

Has that been rewarding for you, helping others?

Kern Carter (11:50)

Absolutely. For me, writing, obviously, is my first love. I love novel writing, but being able to, first of all, ghostwrite books for other people to help them tell their stories, being able to help through editing processes, so developmental editing, book coaching. I teach once a week at a college, a local college here in Toronto. Called Humber College. I teach once we actually had class this morning. I lectured for about three hours. It's the most fulfilling thing and I'm actually surprised by how much I enjoy it. You know, like I, I thought and, and it still is true that again, book writing is my favorite thing, like writing my personal books. But the joy I get just. I was at a class. I was at a. I was yesterday, Monday I was in two classes. I went to speak at a seventh grade class, seventh and eighth grade class and then spoke there for, for about two hours. Then then went to a 12th grade class and sat down with like 11, you know, like really, really literary students. We had this hour long discussion about craft and, and, and, and literature in a way that was just so advanced and it was just like being able to do that and then coming today and having a course with college students. Yesterday I had a, a course with like I, I teach online every other week about craft and, and, and being able to do all of that is just the most rewarding thing for me. I, I love, I think we need more stories in the world, not less. And so me being able to contribute to helping other people bring their story to the world is, is, it's, it's fulfilling. It feels really good.

Interviewer (13:21)

Where do people get in touch with.

Kern Carter (13:24)

Karter.Com Best place to go, you know, or just Google Kurt Carter. My name is, my name on all social platforms is K. Carter. So if you Google me you'll, it's pretty easy to find me. But karter.com for everything.

Interviewer (13:35)

And you. So you, you do book coaching, editing, you'll take people through the whole writing, how much of it is mindset and stick to itiveness. Because it took me to write. It took me two years to write my first non fiction book. Man, it was, it was overwhelming. It was more difficult than my master's degree.

Kern Carter (13:55)

Yeah, I could imagine. I would say it's, it's like 75 mindset I think. I tell people, everyone that I communicate with, every author who I communicate with. I say you need to make a commitment or make a decision first. Decide that this is something that you want to do and then commit to it. Because if you're not committed and there's, and you're wavering, you're kind of on the fence. This is just not the industry for you. It does not reward wavering. You have to be really committed to it or just if you're not committed to it fully, then keep writing as a hobby and just do it for your enjoyment. Don't make it something that you're pursuing as a career.

Interviewer (14:31)

Because.

Kern Carter (14:31)

Because if you're pursuing writing as a career, you're gonna have to go through so many emotional hurdles, so much rejection. So, like, so many years of people not reading your stuff, like, it's just too much. It's too much psychological trauma, you know, to even endure if you're not committed to it. So the first part I tell everyone is, like, what is your level of commitment? You know, like, how. How important is this to you? If it's not that important or if it's just, like, if there's something else you want to do, go do that other thing and just keep writing precious and don't worry about making it a career.

Interviewer (15:06)

I liken a book to birthing a baby. How do you feed it to grow it to where it's well received and you get it out there in the universe? What have you found for public relations that works?

Kern Carter (15:21)

Good question. I would say a few things. First of all, like, trying. Trying very hard to build your own community and speak to a very specific community of people. If. If you're able to identify the people who will be most engaged with the types of books that you're writing, then speak to them. You don't even have to have your own community, right? Like, if you could speak directly to those people and find where they are on different platforms and speak directly to them, you'll. You'll do okay. Also, believe it or not, podcasts, like the one I'm on right now, like, this is really helpful, you know, like, if you're able, like, forget the big podcast. The big podcast, they do okay to move books, but the podcasts that move books the most are podcasts. Like, you're like, the ones that you have right now because the people are engaged. They actually listen, they'll actually take your word, and then you'll be able to. As a guest, you'll be able to come on and capture that audience, right? Like, you only. You only interview authors. So you know what I'm saying? Like, you're. The likelihood of somebody engaging with my work now increases because I'm on a podcast with someone who is speaking the language of that I speak and speaking to the people who I want to speak to. So podcast, get on podcasts and. And learn how to present yourself and present your work. And. And that will help a lot. So I would say those two things for sure. And that's just like understanding yourself. It starts with understanding yourself. Like, where. Where are you? Where you. Where do you show up the best. If that's through writing, then do it on. Start a substack. If that's on video, then jump onto Instagram or something. Right? Like find out where you actually thrive and then do that the most. Do that thing the most. And, and if you, if you do that, then I think people just naturally kind of gravitate towards you.

Interviewer (17:02)

How about book signings? What's been your experience there and are they still relevant today?

Kern Carter (17:09)

Yes, they're relevant for deepening your relationship with fans, with readers. It's not relevant for selling books, or at least that's not been my experience. I think it's much more relevant for someone to come in and you have a one on one experience with them and you're able to kind of deepen that bond. And now they're going to buy all of your books, you know, so that it's important for that reason to nurture your community and nurture your readers. It's not a, it's not like a book selling mechanism.

Interviewer (17:35)

And can you make a distinction between what sells for nonfiction authors and fiction authors? Because again, I'm much more focused on the marketing. I know you got to create a quality book. Let's assume that. But if nobody's heard about it, you're going to be a sad author.

Kern Carter (17:52)

Yeah, absolutely. You mean like the distinction between like what types of book sells well?

Interviewer (17:57)

What, what have you found? What has worked for you? I'm sure your first book was a book of passion. Then you realized, oh my gosh, this is a business. I gotta, yeah, I gotta push copies. It's one thing birthing the baby, but you gotta feed that sucker like three times a day and change its diaper.

Kern Carter (18:14)

Yeah, yeah, okay. Got you, got you. Yes. So I learned that lesson kind of the hard way with my first novel. I, I put it out, wasn't like, yes, I was thinking about marketing, but I wasn't as aggressive aggressively thinking about it. So when I did my book launch, I had like legitimately like seven people and most of them were my family members. It was, it was kind of, it was kind of sad. So the second book, I was like, nope, this is not happening. So two years, and I mean like in actual time, two years before the book came out, already started letting people know. I did a book cover contest with two high schools, two local high schools, and I got them together. I said, hey, whoever wins that becomes a book cover. So that cover you see back there, a 16 year old did that cover for beauty scars. A 16 year old did that cover. I And that I didn't have the book written yet. I, I had like a few chapters right. I knew the title and had a few chapters. I gave them the first line of the book. I said go draw. And, and, and I. So I started promoting then, then took the, the, the top 10 images after that and had a, had a, a gathering for adults now. Free wine, all you could drink wine. Had some food, had some performances like has my actor friends read my book, read from my book because it was a little bit more finished and did that. So I was in promo mode for two years leading up to that book now. So when my book launch came around, over 100 people sold 100 books on that day. That book actually as an indie, as an indie book, like a self published book sold really well. I was really proud of the effort that I put into that. I made some really cool partnerships and it worked out. So for me it's partnerships. So cross promoting with, with other artists that, that has always worked for me. Thinking of creative way creative marketing tactics like the, like the school thing, right? Putting two high schools together. So thinking of creative marketing marketing tactics.

Interviewer (20:00)

Can I drill down on that before you go on this? I haven't heard before. Not I thought was brilliant. So you made it a competition between two schools and the person who won the competition, you gave him credit, I presume inside the book say written by you know, Joe Smith or whatever his name is, you know, cover design. So that school kid can use that as part of his or her resume when they go apply to university. Is that what you.

Kern Carter (20:27)

Absolutely, absolutely. And, and the thing is. Oh not just the winner becomes your fan. The entire all 50. Because I had 50 students, all 50 students become your fan. And then they, when I bust them, I actually bust them in. I, the, the finalists, I bust the finals. The finalists in. I only wanted the finalists to come. They brought all their friends. So it was two busloads of kids from two different schools coming down to the, to somewhere in Toronto called Artscape. And we had the like award ceremony like oh, who's gonna win? We had the top five and we had who's gonna win? So and I had all their emails everyone and they're still following me on social media to this day. So it, it. That was really a really successful kind of campaign that I ran and I, and I loved it. I think people, I think authors underestimate the power of bringing people together. In real life, word of mouth sells books more than anything. It's word of mouth. There's, there's if, when it comes down to it, for books, someone has to tell you, hey, go. Go read that book, Mitch. Like, I think you should read that book. That's how people. That's how people buy books. They don't. It's very rare that a person blindly walks into a bookstore. Only real readers do this. Like, go to a bookstore and let me see what I'm gonna buy today. Like, only super readers do that. Casual readers who are gonna make up the majority of your. Of your sales, they don't. They need to be told what to go buy. So you. You have to find a way to get people to really engage and love you and love your book. That. That is done more effectively in real life. So I, I don't hesitate to bring people together in real life. I don't just stay digital. You know, I think people forget that before social media, people were selling millions of books, right? Like millions and millions of books. They still sold them a bunch of books before social media. So there is a way to do that. And I, yes, I know the landscape is different, publications are different, etc. Etc. Media is different. I know all of this at the same time. The power of bringing people together is. Has not changed. That still gives you a much better chance, I believe, to connect with the reader and to sell books. Like, don't. Don't underestimate that. It gets the. It gets the momentum going, gets people talking.

Interviewer (22:33)

I want to bring up a couple of things as I like to recap the gems. First, sole purpose. You had a dream when you were a boy, you wanted to be an author. It's like, okay, this is it. Some kids want to be firemen and policeman, lawyer, doctor, what have you. You wanted to be an author and you became it. The second thing that you brought up, and this. I've interviewed 180 authors. 180. First time I've heard about this school competition. I think that is brilliant. And what it also does is gets parents potentially involved. It's like, what's my kid doing? And third thing, if you put their name in the acknowledgment, I don't know if you did this or not. I did. This is where my. Oh, okay. You're sharp guy. They'll buy your book because they. The power of seeing their name in print is huge. And I'm going to say this from firsthand experience. I had a successful advertising business in Los Angeles. And I had a mentor, an author mentor that I was a member of his mastermind, a fellow named Dan Kennedy. And I learned this from him. He said you can write a chapter in my book. You can one section. It was two pages. It was just be a contributor to my book and you can buy 200 copies of it. You have the privilege to buy 200 copies. Right. From the publisher who was. I think it was Penguin back then or it was entrepreneur books. I don't remember. It was part of his no BS series. And for to contribute the investment is 10,000 USD. I did it because I got to piggyback my authority on Dan Kennedy's who was a very well known marketing and speaker. And I, I. It was almost emotional. This is before I wrote my books myself. It was the stepping stone of I like this. I could brag to friends I'm in Dan Kennedy's book. And Yeah, I invested $10,000. But what it did for me is I was able to earmarket and I put a sticky note and mailed it out to my top clients. So what did it do for me and what did it do for him? And you know, it raised my credibility because of association. The power of association to a well known. He's written 40 plus books and he was very well known. I don't know if you've heard of him, but he was from my generation, big marketer Dan Kennedy and he got into my clients.

Kern Carter (25:03)

He got.

Interviewer (25:03)

That was a strategy. I paid him for me to market him to my clients.

Kern Carter (25:09)

Yeah. Isn't that smart?

Interviewer (25:11)

Oh my gosh. I learned. So if the power of you put. If you acknowledge somebody. I think Napoleon stated this. Men will die for badges and ribbons.

Kern Carter (25:23)

Yeah, yeah.

Interviewer (25:24)

They'll go to war for it. For recognition. They'll die for it. I mean they'll go back to Napoleon's time. So it's true. So this strategy with your kids, like oh my gosh, you pull that string. There are all sorts of opportunities that I had not heard until today. So two high schools, two competitions and then you have an award ceremony.

Kern Carter (25:45)

Yeah, at an award.

Interviewer (25:46)

More than one award or monetary award or was it.

Kern Carter (25:50)

No, no, the award ceremony was just. I shouldn't say it like that. The award ceremony is the, the announcement of the winner. So I brought the fight. There were top five finalists and we brought them together to announce the winner.

Interviewer (26:02)

And how many people were in attendance in total?

Kern Carter (26:09)

Probably close to 100. So two school buses. About 50 first people on each school bus. So probably close to 100.

Interviewer (26:15)

So did you rent a hall to.

Kern Carter (26:17)

Yeah, to do.

Interviewer (26:18)

Okay, so it was marketing. This was your marketing investment?

Kern Carter (26:20)

Oh, this was marketing. This was you.

Interviewer (26:22)

But you had your books there available for sale?

Kern Carter (26:24)

Yeah.

Interviewer (26:24)

How many books?

Kern Carter (26:25)

No, I didn't even have my books available for sale. My books weren't even done yet. This is. This is like a year and a half out. This is. This is getting. This is just getting warmed up. This is me getting warmed up.

Interviewer (26:36)

Oh, okay. Well, excuse me.

Kern Carter (26:40)

What.

Interviewer (26:40)

What? Followed up from that, because that part is brilliant. I love it.

Kern Carter (26:45)

I follow up from that was then I would. I did part two. So that was. I took care of high school kids, right. So now I have some. I have some readers that will follow.

Interviewer (26:52)

Got some traction there.

Kern Carter (26:53)

Yeah, yeah. Now I'm like, well, the people who didn't technically win, they remember they created actual art pieces. A lot of them created physical art pieces. So I said, all right, I'm going to take the 10 physical art pieces of the finalists and I'm going to have an art show. I'm going to invite some. I'm going to invite people to this art show. I partnered with a wine company, so they gave me free bottles of wine. I charged people $40 for a ticket because it's all you can drink wine to make sure I covered my costs. And. And I had my friends. At this point, the book started getting a little bit more finished, closer to complete. I had one of my art. My actor friends read passages from the book, but they performed it. They kind of performed passages from my book. My goal with that was emails. I needed emails. So emails and contact information. So I had about 50 people show up to that adult readers now, and I collected all their emails. And those people, A lot of those people cancel my book launch. And when I sold 100 books on my book launch, that. That was from like half of it were from the people who came to my. To that wine event. I love it.

Interviewer (27:53)

I love it. That's a unique angle. That's very clever.

Kern Carter (27:56)

So people, long term platinum. You got, you got. You're a marketing guy. You get it.

Interviewer (28:01)

Oh, I'm a marketing guy. And that's why I said, okay, this is great. I mean, you have to pull. You got to put a lot of feathers in your quill here.

Kern Carter (28:09)

You.

Interviewer (28:10)

You need a lot of marketing. I had not heard of that one. I mean, there are all sorts of things, man, I could talk until the end of the day. I mean, I do what I do because I get fresh ideas. Brilliance comes out every day. This is great. I mean, there are many follow ups to this. And if you bring a friend, you get this. I mean, there can be some ethical bribes inserted to get More traction. But that's, that was, that was great. Kern and you probably they're proud of that because they were part of this.

Kern Carter (28:36)

Absolutely. They loved it. They, they loved it. It was great. It was a great experience all around. You know, I, I, we sold a couple art pieces in that show. So we gave the students some money because again, that wasn't really for, that wasn't what it was about. But yeah, no, I, I, charities could.

Interviewer (28:52)

Be involved in this.

Kern Carter (28:53)

I, I partnered with charity. You, yeah, you're definitely a marketer. You know, it is, you know, you know, you gotta look at all ankles.

Interviewer (29:00)

Man.

Kern Carter (29:03)

With breast cancer. Breast Cancer Canada. Because the name of my book is Beauty Scars. Breast Cancer Beauty like a scar beauty partnership. They love the book Boom Boom Boom. You know, so we did a billboard campaign with Breast Cancer Canada. It's, it's, Listen, if you can, if you need, if you want to sell books, you need to know how. You have to learn how to market. Like, that's especially independently. 100 have to learn how to market. There's no, I know there are some things that you could skip. Some things you can and can't do in this world and get away with it. Not marketing your book is not one of them. Like, you could get lucky. There's, there are always exceptions. You could get super lucky. Yes. So I'm not, but we're not talking about exceptions. If you want to sell books, you have to learn to market well. It is no exception. Yeah.

Interviewer (29:44)

Thomas Edison said it's 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta put in the elbow grease, man. It's, you know, that's just the truth. And that's non fiction or fiction?

Kern Carter (29:57)

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. That's for both. That's.

Interviewer (29:59)

Marketing can be a little bit different, but the work is the same. You gotta push that, baby. You know?

Kern Carter (30:05)

Agreed.

Interviewer (30:06)

And because the publishers aren't doing that for you.

Kern Carter (30:11)

No, not, not.

Interviewer (30:13)

Well, they offer distribution, but they don't do the marketing for you.

Kern Carter (30:19)

You know what's so interesting? That I learned about publishing and I studied the industry, but I never learned about this till I was really in it. And experienced was a hard truth to accept that publishers don't sell books. Like, that is not their business. The third parties sell books. Bookstores sell books. They will promote you to this other platform and they sell the books. Publish. You're not going to a publisher's website and buying a book. You know what I'm saying? Like, so they're not in the game of selling books. They're in the game of, like you said, distributing. Distribution. They distribute books. That was really hard for me to understand. But once you understand that, you understand why they put marketing dollars behind certain books and not every book, because that is not their game. Their game is to distribute the book. You have to figure out how to sell your book.

Interviewer (31:07)

Yeah, they'll take you to the gym, but you got to do the reps, man, if you want. Big biceps.

Kern Carter (31:11)

There you go. You gotta. There you go.

Interviewer (31:13)

They'll introduce you. And here you go. Go inside, put your shorts on, and start doing some squats, you know?

Kern Carter (31:20)

Yes. Yeah, that's real. That's a. That's a real. That's a real analogy. Like, that's what it is. They'll give you the platforms. So Penguin's a huge platform. Scholastic's a huge platform. So I've. I've been able to sell books. Like, I'm not going to, like, discredit the fact that the. The fact that I have major exposure is. Is not a part of me selling books. That would be ridiculous. Right? Like, I'm not going to say it helps. Not true. It helps. But if. If you're asking me if the only reason I sold books is because they put a bunch of marketing dollars behind it, that's not. That's just not the case. You know what I'm saying? That's.

Interviewer (31:51)

I learned that from. From John Wiley and Sons. My first published book was with them, and they provided distribution. It was. It was an emotional feeling to see my books on bookshelves. And. And I also paid to have placement inside airports. Walden books inside U.S. airports. And that was where I sold most of my books. And it was where my market. It was business travelers, non fiction back then. And so you got to be where people want to buy books. I mean, if you can get into airports, man, that's golden. But it's a pay to play.

Kern Carter (32:26)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I haven't cracked that one yet.

Interviewer (32:28)

Oh, well, it's a pay to play. But if you're with a real publisher, I mean, a major recognized publisher, you can do it. It's just pay to play. It's part of. Okay, it's pay to play. And it worked out really well for me, I'll say that. And in the nonfiction genre, but, you know, I like to share ideas. Well, Karen, you've been a fantastic resource. I'm going to have you on again after your nonfiction book comes out, so we can give it a little push. When's that going to be published?

Kern Carter (32:54)

That's February next year, February 27th.

Interviewer (32:56)

All right, so we'll, we'll definitely invite you back. And maybe you'll have a green cap this time. You went red. See if we can get the color coordination.

Kern Carter (33:05)

Switch it up. I'll switch it up.

Interviewer (33:07)

Kern, you've been great, Kern Carter.com and you've been a real pleasure. Thank you for your gems. All right. Have a good one.

Mitch Carson (33:15)

Thanks for tuning in to the Amazing Authorities podcast. If today's episode inspired you, take a moment to subscribe, rate and leave a review. It helps more experts like you rise to the top for behind the scenes access and free resources to boost your authority. Head to MitchCarson.com until next time. Stay amazing.