Podcast Summary: The American West - Ep. 07: Jefferson’s "Other" Lewis & Clark

Host: MeatEater (Steve Rinella)
Guest: Dan Flores
Release Date: July 29, 2025
Duration: Approximately 62 minutes

Introduction

In Episode 07 of The American West, titled "Jefferson’s 'Other' Lewis & Clark," host Steve Rinella welcomes historian Dan Flores to uncover a lesser-known chapter of American exploration. While the Lewis and Clark Expedition is a staple in American history, Flores sheds light on a concurrent but obscure expedition commissioned by President Thomas Jefferson—often referred to as Jefferson’s "Other Lewis & Clark."

The Grand Expedition: An Overlooked Venture

Timestamp: [00:23] - [20:44]

Dan Flores begins by setting the historical context post-Louisiana Purchase. While Meriwether Lewis and William Clark embarked westward to explore the newly acquired territory, Jefferson initiated a second major expedition aimed at the southwestern part of the Louisiana Purchase, targeting the Red River.

• Jefferson’s Vision: Influenced by naturalists like Alexander von Humboldt, Jefferson was fascinated by the Southwest's potential for scientific discovery. He envisioned the Red River Expedition as a counterpart to Lewis and Clark’s mission, hoping to uncover the region’s natural history wonders, including the existence of camels and elephants in America.

• Leadership and Preparation: Jefferson appointed Thomas Freeman, an engineer and surveyor, and Dr. Peter Custis, a medical student and naturalist, to lead the expedition. The mission, dubbed the Grand Expedition, received double the funding of Lewis and Clark’s journey, highlighting its significance.

• Challenges in Planning: Despite meticulous planning, the expedition faced geographical misconceptions. Jefferson mistakenly identified the Red River as the true southern boundary, leading to strategic errors in route selection. Intelligence from Spanish informants indicated that the Red River did not lead to Santa Fe, undermining the expedition’s objectives.

Notable Quote:
Dan Flores explains Jefferson’s aim: “As the president had given Meriwether Lewis the following Objects... the western half of North America then was the country.” [11:30]

Departure and Early Struggles

Timestamp: [20:44] - [38:03]

The expedition, bolstered by military support led by Captain Richard Sparks, set sail up the Red River in May 1806 with 50 men, including French and Native American guides.

• Encountering the Great Raft: One of the first major obstacles was the "Great Raft," a massive log jam comprising over 100 miles of cottonwood and juniper logs. This natural barrier severely impeded navigation, forcing the party to navigate through treacherous swamplands.

• Diplomatic Efforts: Upon interacting with the Caddo Confederacy, Freeman attempted to secure their support by presenting U.S. flags. Custis documented Caddoan customs, comparing their archery skills to those described in Homer’s Iliad.

• Spanish Military Intervention: As the expedition progressed, Spanish authorities, alarmed by American incursions, dispatched two cavalry units to intercept. Despite being outnumbered, Freeman adhered to Jefferson’s directive to avoid conflict, choosing to retreat rather than engage.

Notable Quote:
Dan Flores reflects on the decision to retreat: “Freeman, with Jefferson's instructions in hand...he made the mature decision the confrontation called for.” [35:15]

Confrontation and Retreat

Timestamp: [38:03] - [62:26]

As the expedition neared the Red River’s upper stretches, Spanish forces positioned themselves defensively. On July 30, 1806, faced with a superior enemy, Freeman chose to turn back, marking the expedition as a strategic withdrawal.

• Scientific Contributions: Despite not reaching the Rockies, Custis cataloged numerous species—22 mammals, 36 birds, 17 reptiles, fishes, and amphibians, along with 58 trees and 130 flowering plants. These findings were later integrated into American scientific knowledge.

• Government and Public Reaction: The expedition was swiftly overshadowed by the success of Lewis and Clark. Jefferson downplayed the retreat, focusing public attention on the triumphant return of his other explorers. Some historians critique the expedition as a miscalculation that endangered lives without achieving its goals.

• Long-Term Impact: Flores posits that even if the Spanish had intercepted Lewis and Clark, the broader trajectory of American westward expansion would likely have remained unchanged. Nevertheless, the scientific legacy and narrative richness of the Freeman and Custis Expedition remain invaluable.

Notable Quote:
Flores muses on historical significance: “What we would lose... is that incredible description of the early American west that those guys did.” [49:12]

Rediscovery and Modern Significance

Timestamp: [42:00] - [62:26]

The expedition's obscurity persisted until recently when Dan Flores rediscovered original journals redacted by Nicholas King, an official tasked with consolidating the expedition’s reports. King’s alterations had previously muddled scientific data and personal accounts, undermining the expedition’s historical standing.

• Academic Revelation: Flores’ research, culminating in his book Horizontal Yellow: The Freeman and Custis Expedition, uncovers the authentic contributions of both leaders. By restoring Custis’ scientific nomenclature and attributing observations correctly, Flores revives the expedition’s rightful place in history.

• Legacy and Reflection: The episode concludes with reflections on the nature of exploration and historical memory. Flores emphasizes the shared human drive to explore and document the unknown, lamenting the lost potential and recognition of Freeman and Custis.

• Future Directions: The podcast hints at upcoming episodes that will delve deeper into related figures and subsequent explorations, maintaining the narrative's continuity and engagement.

Notable Quote:
Reflecting on historical narratives: “What we would have lost without Lewis and Clark... is our awestruck reaction towards new worlds.” [60:34]

Conclusion

Episode 07 of The American West skillfully uncovers the untold story of Jefferson’s second major expedition. Through meticulous research and engaging storytelling, Dan Flores brings to life the ambitions, challenges, and legacy of Thomas Freeman and Peter Custis. This exploration not only enriches our understanding of American expansion but also honors the often-overlooked contributors to the nation's pioneering history.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Dan Flores on Jefferson’s Vision:
   “As the president had given Meriwether Lewis the following Objects... the western half of North America then was the country.” [11:30]

2. Reflection on Retreat Decision:
   “Freeman, with Jefferson's instructions in hand...he made the mature decision the confrontation called for.” [35:15]

3. On Historical Significance:
   “What we would lose... is that incredible description of the early American west that those guys did.” [49:12]

4. Reflection on Exploration:
   “What we would have lost without Lewis and Clark... is our awestruck reaction towards new worlds.” [60:34]

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a compelling reminder of the intricate and often overlooked facets of American history. By bringing to light the endeavors of Freeman and Custis, The American West not only fills a historical gap but also celebrates the enduring spirit of exploration that continues to define the American relationship with the vast western landscapes.