The American West – Ep. 10: Start of the Endgame for the Ancient West
Podcast: The American West (MeatEater) | Host: Dan Flores, Steve Rinella, Williams | Date: September 9, 2025
Main Theme
This episode explores the pivotal shift in the American West during the “long 1830s” (1820s–1840s), marking the rapid end of the ecological balance and ancient ways shaped by indigenous stewardship, as the global market economy and Euro-American exploitation irrevocably transformed landscapes, wildlife, and human societies. By examining the fur trade’s devastation (e.g., sea otter and beaver destruction), the market's impact on both Native Americans and working-class trappers, and changing perceptions about extinction, the hosts confront the myths and realities of “frontier heroism”—and reconsider how we should remember this era of loss and transition.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Painting the “Endgame” of the Ancient West
- [02:09] Dan Flores describes Thomas Hart Benton's painting Lewis and Clark at Eagle Creek as a visual metaphor for the ancient West’s immensity and the coming changes:
- The landscape dominates, with arriving Americans appearing as "a minor blip in the timeline" of an ancient world.
- Transition from a land shaped for millennia by Native presence and biodiversity to one facing rapid contraction due to Euro-American arrival.
2. The Role of European Worldview and Religion
- [08:20–13:40] Explains how biblical and European philosophical ideas underpinned settler attitudes toward animals and the land:
- Dominion, exceptionality, and the "Great Chain of Being" meant animals existed for human use; extinction was once thought impossible (“no animal species had ever disappeared in the past, nor could any species ever disappear now or in the future” – Dan Flores [11:10]).
- Adam Smith’s capitalist ethos merged with this view, commodifying animals for market gain.
3. The Fur Trade and Ecological Collapse
- [18:28–27:14] A detailed look at the early 19th-century fur trade’s devastating impact:
- Sea Otter Hunt:
- Sea otters and fur seals were driven to near extinction by American, British, and Russian traders (often conscripting or coercing native labor).
- “They added the next horrifying step. The forced conscription of the Aleuts and other native peoples into an animal killing labor force...” (Dan Flores [22:14])
- Economic incentives (otter pelts fetching up to $120 apiece in China) drove frenzied, unsentimental slaughter and international rivalry.
- The Steller’s sea cow, a Pleistocene giant, was wiped out as a result.
- Beaver Extermination:
- The “mountain men” and multiple fur companies (e.g., American Fur Company, Missouri Fur Company) rapidly depleted beaver populations everywhere they went.
- Removal of beavers led to the breakdown of landscape hydrology and ecosystem collapse (“beaver removal in the West abruptly terminated millennia of hydraulic engineering” – Dan Flores [27:54]).
- Sea Otter Hunt:
4. Market Exploitation and Native Peoples
- [32:15–36:27]
- The global market economy enticed native communities to participate (often out of economic necessity or to keep up with neighboring tribes acquiring firearms and metal tools), undermining ecological stewardship.
- Sometimes, market participation was voluntary (trading furs for goods/technology); in coastal Russian areas, natives were conscripted and brutalized.
- Disease devastation: Smallpox “supply” steamboats (e.g., the St. Peter’s) spread epidemics, killing tens of thousands of Missouri River Indians in the 1830s, upsetting the social and economic networks integral to the fur trade.
5. The Myth and Reality of Frontier Heroes
- [38:48–44:48]
- While “mountain men” like Kit Carson or Jim Bridger became folk heroes, their foundational legacy is one of ecological destruction, not just romantic adventure.
- Quotes 19th-century peer George Ruxton: “Their personalities assumed what he said was a most singular cast of simplicity mingled with ferocity. The western hunters... rival the beasts of prey, as he put it, and destroy human as well as animal life with as little scruple and as freely as they expose their own.” (Dan Flores [43:10])
- The American approach (unlike Canadian regulation) favored deregulated, “law of supply and demand” extraction.
6. Ongoing Impact and Modern Reassessment
- [47:09–49:55]
- Dan Flores argues for taking the actual lives and importance of Western animals seriously and confronting the romance of frontier exploitation:
- “I have been trying to do it in a way where... people who listen to this podcast are going to have the furniture in their heads rearranged a little bit in thinking about it…” (Dan Flores [48:27])
- He notes that even now, the absence of beavers continues to reshape streams, water supplies, and habitats (“The past doesn't stay in the past—it extends into the present day.” – Dan Flores [51:48])
- Emphasizes that the “science of ecology” is recent, so earlier actors couldn’t understand the long-term destruction they caused.
- Dan Flores argues for taking the actual lives and importance of Western animals seriously and confronting the romance of frontier exploitation:
7. The Concept and Debate over Extinction
- [53:09–56:54]
- Skepticism over extinction dominated European and early American thought (how could God’s perfect creation ever vanish?).
- Notable exchange:
- “I only became aware recently that people used to struggle with... the concept of extinction, that it was actually debated.” (Steve Rinella [53:09])
- “Thomas Jefferson believed that extinction was not possible in the 1790s. But... by the 1830s and 1840s most scientists... realized...they really have disappeared. They're not here anymore.” (Dan Flores [55:38])
- Indigenous peoples, referencing the Pleistocene extinctions, may have understood that animal disappearance was possible, though the cultural memory’s persistence into more recent generations is uncertain.
8. Cultural Worldviews on Animal Disappearance
- [57:30–59:03]
- Native explanations for vanished animals were often metaphysical (e.g., buffalo returned to the earth), compared to scientific narratives of extinction.
- Tradeoff between supernatural explanations among indigenous cultures and the emergent Western scientific cause-and-effect rationale.
9. The Evolution of Exploitation: From Fur to Other Resources
- [63:58–69:32]
- After wiping out a resource (e.g., otters, beavers), trappers and settlers seamlessly transitioned to new forms of exploitation: horse trading, agriculture, timber, buffalo, wolves, etc.—rarely was there a “gap” between extractive booms.
- In rare cases (e.g., sea otter coasts), the departure of seasonal, seafaring hunters left a quiet period before the next wave of exploitation.
10. Colorful Historical Details and Foreshadowing
- [70:16–71:20]
- Discussion of “Vaquero of the Brush Country” and experiments in meat preservation for cattle ranching, showing early American ingenuity (or desperation).
- Flores promises further exploration of little-known western “horse trade” history in the next episode.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Benton's Painting as Metaphor:
“The west of the previous 10,000 years yet exists, and it looms over the arriving Americans, who appear a minor blip in the timeline of a world that's impossibly ancient.” – Dan Flores [03:11] -
On the Market’s Attitude toward Animals:
“In this system, ancient ecological relationships had no meaning. Animals had no meaning beyond satisfying the desires of people who killed them and others who made animal skins into leather or use fur or teeth or claws to make statements about human fashions or status among peers.” – Dan Flores [14:50] -
On Extinction Beliefs:
“Extinction, in other words, was impossible in a divinely created world.” – Dan Flores [10:45] -
On Industrial-Scale Hunting:
“On a typical creek in the bitterroots, they'd catch 95 beavers the following morning and another 60 that afternoon. That usually got every animal in the draw drainage, then on to the next canyon and repeat... From 1823 to 1841, the British brigades destroyed 35,000 western beavers and drained an estimated 6,000 beaver ponds.” – Dan Flores [36:00] -
On the Reality vs. Romance of “Frontier Heroes”:
“These heroes out of the adventureland of early America, in fact, were detached, stoic killers... Their response to that freedom… was ransacking the west of its animal life.” – Dan Flores [43:43] -
On the Enduring Impact of Environmental Destruction:
“The past doesn't stay in the past. It extends into the present day.” – Dan Flores [51:48] -
On Reassessing Western History:
“I have been trying to do it in a way where... people who listen to this podcast are going to have the furniture in their heads rearranged a little bit in thinking about it…” – Dan Flores [48:27] -
On Indigenous and Western Worldviews of Extinction:
“The western rational scientific world looks for an evidentiary cause for the consequence. And oftentimes the indigenous world looks for... a supernatural explanation...” – Dan Flores [59:03]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 02:09 – Dan Flores introduces the episode’s central idea and the significance of Benton's painting
- 14:50 – Examination of market attitudes toward wildlife in the West
- 18:28 – The sea otter and fur seal economies, and their collapse
- 27:14 – The beaver hunt’s ecological fallout and comparison to Canada’s regulated trade
- 38:48 – Myth vs. reality: how “mountain men” became legends
- 47:09 – Flores discusses his approach: challenging (but not erasing) the romance about the West
- 53:09 – How the concept of extinction was disputed, and Jefferson’s beliefs
- 57:30 – Steve & Dan discuss indigenous and metaphysical explanations for animal disappearance
- 63:58 – Shift from fur trading to other forms of resource extraction
- 70:16 – Historical oddities: salting cattle meat and early ranching innovation
- 71:20 – Flores previews the upcoming episode on the western horse trade
Tone and Narrative Style
The episode merges scholarly detail, naturalist insight, and group banter. Dan Flores anchors the discussion with richly sourced narrative and ecological perspective, while Steve Rinella both injects humor and challenges Flores to clarify the contemporary significance of this history.
Summary in a Nutshell
Episode 10 of The American West is a penetrating reassessment of the “ancient West's” final chapter in the face of global commerce, showing how mythic freedom and unfettered exploitation led to ecological disaster, irrevocably altering the land, its people, and its future. Flores and the crew invite listeners to reconsider the legacy of the frontier, not as a mere playground for heroism, but as a landscape indelibly marked by loss—and as urgent context for our stewardship today.