The American West – Ep. 15: The Most Dangerous Beast? Or the God of the West?

Host: Dan Flores
Guest: Randall (section near end)
Date: November 18, 2025

Overview

In this episode, writer and historian Dan Flores dives deep into the story of the grizzly bear in the American West. Using vivid historical tales, science, and personal reflection, Flores examines how the grizzly evolved from a symbol of untamed wilderness and a spiritual figure to a “beast” driven nearly to extinction—and now, possibly, a creature poised for comeback. The discussion explores how myths, fear, and changing cultural perceptions shaped both the fate of the grizzly and the American mind.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Grizzly as Wilderness Icon and Threat

• Opening Reflection:
  Flores sets the stage by framing the grizzly as both “the West’s most dangerous creature” and “its wilderness avatar deity.” Once numbering about 56,000 in the continental US, there are now fewer than 2,000 south of Alaska.

  "Whether the grizzly strikes us as the West's most dangerous creature or as its wilderness avatar deity, the great bear's fate has seen it reduced outside Alaska from 56,000 in 1800 to fewer than 2,000 today." (Dan Flores, 01:44)

• The Artist’s Encounter:
  In 1874, artist William de La Montaigne Carey witnessed a dramatic horse pursuit of a grizzly on the Montana plains—a scene that left a lifelong impression, simultaneously evoking primal fear and sympathy for the fleeing bear.

2. Grizzlies in Human Imagination and Culture

• Primal Fear Meets Cultural Myth:
  Scientific studies show humans are hardwired to respond emotionally to animal imagery—especially dangerous animals like bears (06:30). But our perceptions are also distinctly shaped by culture:

  "Much of what we think when 'bear' comes to mind emerges from the tangled mess of software programs—that is culture. ... Those are the bears in the mirror, the bears humans see when we look at grizzlies through the lens of our minds and cultures." (Dan Flores, 08:52)

  Notable quote from Paul Shepard:

  "By disdaining the beast in us, we grow away from the world instead of into it." (Paul Shepard, quoted at 09:34)

3. Early Encounters and the Spread of Grizzly Lore

• First European Accounts:
  Spanish explorer Sebastián Vizcaíno recorded grizzlies in California in 1602; the first European to kill one was likely Henry Kelsey in Saskatchewan, 1690—an act Native companions saw as killing a god (12:00).

• Telling of Fowler’s 1821 Encounter:
  A chilling, detailed tale from Jacob Fowler’s journal describes a party of traders stumbling upon a grizzly in Colorado. The bear’s ferocity and focus on the man who shot it ended fatally for the human.

  "The bear focused specifically on one man and ignored the rest of the party ... bears are just kind of single-minded in their focus." (Dan Flores, 52:21)

4. The Evolution of Cultural Attitudes

• Five Stages (Per Clark & Casey): (22:30)

  1. Native American: Grizzlies as teachers, healers, near-human kin.
  2. Fur Trade/Exploration: The “horrible bear,” symbol of wilderness danger.
  3. Conquest & Settlement: Eradication seen as civilizing duty, especially by Christian settlers.
  4. Early 20th Century: Official federal war on predators, rise of sport hunting, and individualizing remaining bears with names and personalities.
  5. Modern Conservation: Tiny remnant populations, shifting toward respect and cautious coexistence.

• Hunting and Masculinity:
  Killing grizzlies was a masculine rite; sport hunters and Roosevelt-era thinking glorified the pursuit.

• The Individualization of Animals:
  As grizzly populations plummeted, particular bears received names and personalities—“Bigfoot Wallace,” “Old Moe’s,” “Wab,” etc.—a literary and cultural move to bridge the emotional gap with nature (28:00–32:00).

5. The Grim Statistics & Modern Recovery

• Near-Extinction:
  Grizzly numbers fell from 56,000 in 1800 to around 750 in 1950, restricted to isolated ranges in Montana and Wyoming.

  “From a population of 56,000 bears at the time of Lewis and Clark, only 750 grizzly bears remained alive in the lower contiguous states.” (Dan Flores, 36:10)

• Recent Comeback:
  Conservation efforts, rewilding debates, and increased sightings on the plains and in the Bitterroot Valley suggest a slow return—but with major human resistance and challenges for coexistence.

  Personal story: Flores describes a day hiking in Montana’s Bob Marshall Wilderness, finding giant bear tracks leading toward the plains, only to read later that “Maximus,” a well-known, well-behaved 800-lb grizzly, was shot shortly after.

  “He was a grizzly that had never gotten in any trouble ... but he was heading onto the prairie, the grizzlies’ Elysian Fields ... That presumably got him shot. ... deserved a better fate.” (Dan Flores, 38:30)

6. Conversation & Modern Perspective (w/ Randall)

• Expanding Grizzly Country:
  Randall notes that areas once safe from grizzlies are again grizzly country, with populations slowly expanding onto the Montana and Dakota plains (42:30–44:24).

  “Maybe 20 years ago, we might not have been in grizzly country. In 2024, it’s grizzly country again.” (Randall, 42:30)

• Reintroduction Resistance:
  Efforts to facilitate grizzly recovery in the Bitterroots met fierce local opposition. Flores notes many in the Bitterroot Valley, Montana, remained strongly anti-reintroduction despite bears appearing naturally.

  “There was a very definite kind of incomprehension that having managed to make the Bitterroot Valley grizzly bear free ... we actually were considering the idea of reintroducing grizzlies.” (Dan Flores, 47:00)

• The “Looming” Bear & Media Hype:
  The “grizzly as constant danger” was overblown: Despite menacing stories, actual deadly encounters were rare.

  “You read journals ... the grizzly is this looming figure at every turn ... but there’s only a handful, like three or eight mountain men that were actually killed by grizzly bears.” (Randall, 49:30) “If you didn’t happen upon them and surprise them, you almost had to intentionally provoke a grizzly bear to get it to do something dangerous.” (Dan Flores, 50:38)

• Recognition of Animal Individuality:
  Both men agree that the trend toward seeing large carnivores as individuals—mirroring our attitudes toward pet dogs—is gaining ground in wildlife management circles.

  “It's not so big a step for us to assume ... that's the same thing that's in play with ... wolves and grizzly bears.” (Dan Flores, 55:24)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• “How we react to other animals is in part primate hard wiring ... our right hemisphere amygdala evolved and yet engages in a neural specialization for processing visual information about animals.” — Dan Flores [06:45]

• “Those are the bears in the mirror, the bears humans see when we look at grizzlies through the lenses of our minds and cultures.” — Dan Flores [08:52]

• “By disdaining the beast in us, we grow away from the world instead of into it.” — Paul Shepard (quoted by Flores) [09:34]

• “Once so numerous out on the plains, grizzlies ... had now fled to the mountains. So these last bears are always secreted away up in the peaks.” — Dan Flores [27:45]

• “A respectful wild grizzly who knew how to live among us deserved a better fate.” — Dan Flores, on Maximus [38:52]

• “If you didn’t happen upon them and surprise them, you almost had to intentionally provoke a grizzly bear to get it to do something that was dangerous to humans.” — Dan Flores [50:38]

• “We have no difficulty whatsoever in recognizing our companion animals, our dogs for example, as individuals. And I think it’s not so big a step for us to assume that's the same thing that is in play with ... wolves and grizzly bears.” — Dan Flores [55:24]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:44: Opening thesis: The fate of the grizzly bear
• 04:48–09:33: The historical drama and primal fear surrounding grizzlies
• 12:00–19:41: Early European encounters & violent, tragic stories
• 22:30–28:00: Five periods in American attitudes to the grizzly
• 32:00–38:52: The tragic near-extinction, animal individuality, and Maximus story
• 42:10: Randall and Flores discuss the present and future of grizzlies on the plains
• 46:14–49:30: Grizzly reintroduction debates and living with large carnivores
• 50:31–55:55: Perspectives on the psychology of grizzly dangers and individual animal stories

Tone & Style

• Flores guides the narrative with a blend of awe, scientific curiosity, and poetic reflection, at times quoting literary sources and original frontier journals.
• The podcast moves smoothly between scholarship, storytelling, and personal anecdotes, striving for a nuanced portrait that avoids simplistic hero/villain binaries.

Conclusion

This episode offers a sweeping-yet-intimate account of the grizzly bear’s fate in the American West: feared, nearly exterminated, grudgingly conserved, and now at the center of a new chapter of wildness and human coexistence. Rich with history, psychology, and reflection, it challenges listeners to reconsider what it means to live alongside wilderness—and the “gods” that shaped it.