Podcast Summary: The Analytics Power Hour, Episode #264: "When the Analyst’s Toolbox Includes Assessing the Zeitgeist with Erika Olson"

Introduction

In Episode #264 of The Analytics Power Hour, hosts Michael Helbling, Moe Kiss, Tim Wilson, Val Kroll, and guest Erika Olson delve into the intricate and often challenging domain of brand measurement within business analytics. Recorded on February 4, 2025, this episode explores the multifaceted aspects of measuring brand health, the distinction between brand expansion and perception, and the interplay between qualitative insights and quantitative data. Through insightful discussions and real-world examples, the episode offers valuable perspectives for professionals aiming to navigate the complexities of brand analytics.

1. Measuring Brand: Challenges and Approaches

The episode kicks off with Tim Wilson introducing the central theme: the difficulty of measuring brand effectiveness. Tim humorously likens brand measurement to "memorizing PI to 70,000 decimal places" (00:13), highlighting its perceived complexity and the skepticism surrounding its measurability.

Tim Wilson: “Trying to get me to make a coherent point. Right up with all of these, some would say... is measuring brand.” (00:13)

Val Kroll echoes this sentiment, emphasizing that many marketers consider brand measurement a "hard thing" due to its abstract nature (02:02).

Val Kroll: “They have heard of Canva and they associate it with whatever this particular category or use cases.” (07:49)

Erika Olson, co-founder of Forward, articulates Forward’s role as an "insights driven brand consultancy," focusing on diagnosing brand issues, optimizing strategies, and predicting cultural shifts (03:34).

Erika Olson: “We help clients with any questions that involve consumers or culture... we do a bit of diagnosing, optimizing, and predicting.” (03:10)

2. Brand Expansion vs. Brand Perception

A significant portion of the discussion distinguishes between brand expansion and brand perception. Val probes whether brands like Canva are transitioning between different market buckets, seeking to expand their brand affinity and association.

Val Kroll: “Do you have brands that really need to kind of get out there... they have to expand their awareness or expand their affiliation?” (07:49)

Erika clarifies that brand expansion is an intentional, strategic action, whereas brand perception is influenced by consumers and cannot be directly controlled by the company.

Erika Olson: “Brand expansion is an action that a company can take intentionally and with a strategy... whereas brand perception, they can't do that.” (08:46)

3. Utility and Limitations of Brand Trackers

The conversation moves to the effectiveness of brand trackers—tools commonly used to monitor brand health. Moe Kiss raises a crucial point about the ambiguity of brand health scores across different audiences.

Moe Kiss: “When you think about measuring the health of a brand, it's like among who and for what.” (10:07)

Erika critiques brand trackers for their potential misleading nature when tracking vague attributes like "trust" and "loyalty," which can be interpreted differently by various audiences.

Erika Olson: “Trust is like a solar system. You don't trust something or you don't... when you put a big broad word like trust... it's so big it's undiagnosable.” (13:15)

Val expresses enthusiasm for having brand trackers, prompting a light-hearted exchange about their effectiveness.

Val Kroll: “I get so excited when somebody has a brand tracker.” (11:49)

4. Linking Brand Health to Business Outcomes

The discussion advances to connecting brand health metrics with tangible business results. Erika acknowledges the difficulty in assigning a direct dollar value to brand metrics but emphasizes intuitive benefits like inherent consumer trust and reduced skepticism.

Erika Olson: “I don't put that much weight in those big vague things... but lower standards for success.” (21:31)

Moe adds that even historical data might lose relevance as market contexts shift, questioning the utility of comparing current brand health to past metrics.

Moe Kiss: “How do you even talk about a second ago... context shifting means that comparison is probably less valuable.” (18:20)

5. Qualitative vs. Quantitative Measures in Brand Analytics

A pivotal segment contrasts qualitative insights with quantitative data. Erika advocates for qualitative methods, arguing that they often provide more actionable and intuitive insights than purely quantitative metrics.

Erika Olson: “Quant will say the sky is purple... and qual feels more truthful.” (28:03)

Val interjects with the challenge of setting expectations for brand tracking, recognizing the inherent "squishiness" in measuring abstract brand attributes.

Val Kroll: “There's squishiness in what's being measured... setting expectations is a challenge.” (16:00)

6. Case Studies and Examples: Coach and Jaguar

Erika shares real-world examples to illustrate effective brand measurement and strategy. She cites Coach’s targeted metrics towards Gen Z as a success story, where focused and articulate metrics align closely with the brand’s strategic goals.

Erika Olson: “Coach decided they wanted to be younger, appeal to Gen Z... they're far more sharp and articulate.” (16:06)

Conversely, the episode touches on rebranding pitfalls, referencing Jaguar’s rebrand as a cautionary tale about making significant brand shifts without adequate market validation.

Erika Olson: “Jaguar took a swing... Time will tell how it'll go.” (41:43)

7. Changing Brand Perceptions and Market Trends

The hosts and Erika examine how brands must adapt to evolving cultural and societal trends. Erika discusses the shift from "maximalist to quiet luxury," illustrating how brands like Gucci have transformed their image to stay relevant.

Erika Olson: “Quiet luxury involves neutrals and no logos... it's about access, knowledge, and taste.” (34:03)

Val and Moe further explore the complexities of adjusting brand perception in response to societal changes, emphasizing the need for brands to remain authentic while evolving.

Val Kroll: “We need ways to say how could we measure, how could we triangulate...” (45:22)

8. Human Intuition vs. Data in Brand Metrics

The episode explores the balance between human intuition and data-driven decisions in brand analytics. Erika highlights the importance of human judgment in interpreting data, asserting that humans are adept at sensing brand health beyond mere numbers.

Erika Olson: “Humans are pretty good barometers of some brand metrics... they're not giving a perfect measure.” (28:03)

Val underscores the necessity of combining qualitative insights with quantitative data to form a comprehensive understanding of brand health.

Val Kroll: “It's making the case for human thought and rationalizing...” (43:44)

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a "last call" segment where guests and hosts share personal recommendations and reflections related to the topics discussed. Erika Olson emphasizes the importance of intuitive and culturally relevant brand strategies, while Val, Moe, and Tim contribute their unique takes on brand aesthetics and analytics.

Erika Olson: “If you did have your ears prick up... look around, it's really interesting.” (60:15)

Val and Moe share insights from their professional experiences, reinforcing the episode’s core themes of adaptability, authenticity, and the nuanced nature of brand measurement.

Closing Remarks: The hosts extend gratitude to their producer and invite listeners to engage through various platforms, encouraging ongoing conversations about the challenges and innovations in brand analytics.

Tim Wilson: “No matter how hard it is to measure what you're measuring, keep analyzing.” (67:21)

Key Takeaways:

1. Brand Measurement is Complex: Measuring brand health involves navigating abstract concepts that can vary across different audiences and contexts.

2. Strategic Brand Expansion: Intentional brand expansion, as opposed to attempting to shift brand perception, leads to more actionable and manageable strategies.

3. Limitations of Brand Trackers: While useful, brand trackers can be misleading if they rely on vague metrics without clear definitions and context.

4. Qualitative Insights are Crucial: Combining qualitative methods with quantitative data offers a more comprehensive understanding of brand health, leveraging human intuition alongside data.

5. Adaptability to Cultural Shifts: Brands must remain adaptable to evolving cultural and societal trends, ensuring that their strategies align with current consumer sentiments.

6. Balance Between Intuition and Data: Effective brand analytics requires a balance between data-driven insights and human intuition to capture the nuanced nature of brand perception.

This episode serves as a valuable resource for analytics professionals seeking to deepen their understanding of brand measurement, offering practical insights and highlighting the importance of a multifaceted approach to brand analytics.