Podcast Summary: The Ancients – "Jason and the Argonauts"

Episode Information:

• Title: Jason and the Argonauts
• Host: Tristan Hughes
• Guest: Caroline Lawrence, Bestselling Author
• Release Date: April 27, 2025

Introduction

In the April 27, 2025 episode of The Ancients, host Tristan Hughes delves into one of Greek mythology's most enduring and adventurous tales: the saga of Jason and the Argonauts. Joining him is Caroline Lawrence, a bestselling author known for her insightful explorations of Greek myths, including her recent work on the hero's journey exemplified by Jason and the Argonauts.

The Significance of Jason and the Argonauts

Tristan initiates the discussion by highlighting the epic nature of Jason's quest to retrieve the Golden Fleece, positioning it as the "primal hero's journey narrative." Caroline agrees, noting that the story's enduring popularity stems from its embodiment of the hero's journey—a concept famously articulated by Joseph Campbell. She states:

"...the Golden Fleece story is the Hero's Journey. So he actually calls it the Golden Fleece genre, where the hero goes on a quest to get a thing and comes home again."
— Caroline Lawrence [04:43]

Historical Origins and Evolution of the Myth

The conversation shifts to the origins of the Jason myth. Caroline outlines its probable oral tradition roots, comparable to Homer's Iliad and Odyssey. She details the earliest mentions, such as in Homer's works where Jason is referenced indirectly, and progresses through various literary accounts:

"The first complete story of the quest is from Pindar, one of his Pythianodes, the fourth Pythianode, often considered his best."
— Caroline Lawrence [10:38]

She emphasizes how each retelling from poets like Herodotus, Apollonius Rhodius, and Ovid adds layers and variations, reflecting the storytellers' political and cultural contexts.

Core Tropes and Elements in the Jason Myth

1. The Prophecy and Jason’s Introduction

Caroline describes Jason's introduction, often marked by prophecy and omens. For instance, in Apollonius of Rhodes' Argonautica, Jason arrives in Iolcus wearing a single sandal, a sign that foreshadows his destiny:

"He waves bye bye to Chiron, who's holding little baby Achilles, because of course, Chiron teaches Achilles."
— Caroline Lawrence [15:30]

2. Gathering of the Argonauts

Jason’s assembly of a diverse team of heroes is akin to a mythical version of the Avengers. Caroline likens this to modern crossover stories, highlighting the inclusion of notable figures like Heracles, Orpheus, and the twins Castor and Pollux, each bringing unique skills to the quest:

"You've got Castor and Pollux, who are good at boxing and horse riding. And then there's Euphemus, the son of Poseidon, who can walk on water."
— Caroline Lawrence [29:38]

3. The Argo and its Divine Features

The Argo, Jason's ship, is imbued with divine elements, such as magic wood from Dodona's sacred oaks that can "speak." Caroline describes how this element serves as a mystical guide for the Argonauts:

"The idea of the approval of the gods are here, so that's super fun."
— Caroline Lawrence [24:53]

Adventures Along the Quest

1. Isle of Lemnos

The Argonauts first land on Lemnos, an island dominated by women who have slain their male counterparts. Caroline recounts:

"The only woman who didn't kill her father is Hypsipilly, who is the kind of queen of Lemnos. And she has a little dalliance with Jason and he's going to have two kids by her."
— Caroline Lawrence [26:42]

2. The Clashing Rocks

Next, they encounter the Clashing Rocks near the Hellespont. Caroline explains the mythological challenge and references the film adaptation's creative portrayal:

"They let a dove through and the dove goes through and just get its tail feathers. And then they quickly row and get through that way."
— Caroline Lawrence [24:10]

3. Encounter with the Harpies and Phineas

At Phineas' island, the Argonauts battle the Harpies—half-women, half-birds creatures. Caroline highlights the heroic feats of Zetes and Calais, who possess the ability to fly:

"They chase and fly after the Harpies with their swords all the way going west to the Strophates."
— Caroline Lawrence [38:27]

4. Meeting Medea and Obtaining the Golden Fleece

Upon reaching Colchis, Jason meets Medea, a pivotal character who aids him in his quest:

"Medea's the youngest and she's a priestess of Hekate. She's a sorceress, a witch. She's very young in Apollonius and quite vulnerable and very sympathetic."
— Caroline Lawrence [38:43]

Caroline discusses the variations in their encounter across different texts, including Medea's magical assistance and the morally complex decisions Jason faces.

The Return Journey and Moral Decline

As the Argonauts embark on their return voyage, their actions take a darker turn. Caroline outlines the consequences of their deeds, such as the murder of King Cyzicus and the slaughter of Absyrtus, Medea's brother:

"They start off with the most noble of motives and they deteriorate as they go along the way."
— Caroline Lawrence [46:16]

She explains how these acts necessitate purification, leading them to seek Cleansing from Circe:

"Circe is the witch who had Odysseus on her island, but she is now the one who can purify them."
— Caroline Lawrence [46:16]

Jason’s Legacy and Death

The episode concludes with the tragic end of Jason. Caroline narrates his death beneath the Argo, symbolizing the end of his heroic journey:

"He's sitting under the Argo in the shade of the Argo and a bit falls off and bonks him on the head and he dies."
— Caroline Lawrence [54:35]

She reflects on the nature of Greek heroes as anti-heroes, underscoring their human flaws and the lessons their stories impart.

Conclusion

Tristan wraps up the episode by acknowledging the depth and complexity of Jason’s story, teasing future discussions on Medea and other related myths. He also promotes Caroline Lawrence's book, A Companion to the Greek and Roman Gods and Goddesses, which delves deeper into these ancient narratives.

"This is a terrible thing they've done. It's such a terrible thing. Killing ordinary people is bad, but killing your own flesh and blood is abhorrent to the gods."
— Caroline Lawrence [46:16]

Key Takeaways

• Jason and the Argonauts is a cornerstone of Greek mythology, embodying the universal hero's journey.
• The myth has evolved through various literary accounts, each adding unique elements and reflecting their societal contexts.
• The story is rich with archetypal characters and divine interventions, making it a timeless narrative explored across multiple mediums.
• Jason's journey underscores the complexities of heroism, showcasing both valor and moral ambiguity.

Caroline Lawrence's expert analysis provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of this ancient epic, its characters, and its lasting impact on storytelling.

Notable Quotes:

1. On the Hero's Journey:

   "The Golden Fleece story is the Hero's Journey. So he actually calls it the Golden Fleece genre, where the hero goes on a quest to get a thing and comes home again."
   — Caroline Lawrence [04:43]

2. On Character Diversity:

   "You've got Castor and Pollux, who are good at boxing and horse riding. And then there's Euphemus, the son of Poseidon, who can walk on water."
   — Caroline Lawrence [29:38]

3. On Moral Decline:

   "They start off with the most noble of motives and they deteriorate as they go along the way."
   — Caroline Lawrence [46:16]

4. On Jason’s Death:

   "He's sitting under the Argo in the shade of the Argo and a bit falls off and bonks him on the head and he dies."
   — Caroline Lawrence [54:35]

This detailed exploration of Jason and the Argonauts offers listeners both a nostalgic dive into an ancient myth and fresh insights from Caroline Lawrence’s scholarly perspective, making it a must-listen for enthusiasts of ancient history and mythology.