Podcast Summary: The Ancients – “Pompeii: The Buried City”

Introduction

In the June 1, 2025 episode of The Ancients, hosted by Tristan Hughes from History Hit, listeners are treated to an in-depth exploration of Pompeii through the expert insights of Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul, the esteemed Director of Pompeii Archaeological Site. This episode delves into recent excavations, groundbreaking discoveries, and the intricate social fabric of the ancient city preserved by the catastrophic eruption of Mount Vesuvius in 79 AD.

1. The Ongoing Excavations and Preservation Efforts

Dr. Zugtriegul opens the discussion by highlighting the continuous and meticulous excavation efforts at Pompeii. He emphasizes the delicate balance between uncovering new artifacts and preserving the integrity of the site.

Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [05:29]: "Excavating in Pompeii is always a huge responsibility and so everything we excavate has to be preserved and looked after and monitored."

The director reflects on the historical context of Pompeii’s excavation, noting the extensive damage caused by early excavation methods and the modern shift towards careful, scientifically informed techniques.

2. Understanding the Population of Pompeii

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to reassessing the population size of Pompeii at the time of the eruption. Dr. Zugtriegul discusses varying estimates and introduces new evidence suggesting a larger population than previously thought.

Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [11:09]: "We estimate that up to a third of the ancient population were property of someone else."

He references a 2017 inscription outside Porter Stapia’s tomb, celebrating a toga virilis ceremony attended by over 6,000 male citizens, implying a total population that could range between 30,000 to 40,000 when accounting for women, children, and enslaved individuals.

3. Beyond the Walls: The Importance of Civita Juliana

Tristan shifts the conversation to areas outside Pompeii’s main walls, particularly focusing on the discovery of slave quarters in Civita Juliana—a significant archaeological find that sheds light on the lives of enslaved workers.

Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [26:01]: "In Civita Juliana, which was, I think, one of the biggest villas in the countryside around Pompeii, we're excavating slave rooms that reveal the everyday lives of up to 60 people."

These findings illustrate the stark social inequalities of ancient Pompeii and provide a more comprehensive picture of the city’s socioeconomic dynamics.

4. The Pompeii Effect and Comparative Sites

The conversation explores the concept of the "Pompeii effect," where sites are exceptionally preserved, allowing for detailed insights into daily life. Dr. Zugtriegul compares Pompeii to other similarly preserved sites like Akrotiri and Dura Europos, highlighting the global significance of such discoveries.

Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [09:14]: "You can see it in other sites sometimes. But every archaeologist tends to think of Pompeii. Oh, this is like Pompeii. And actually, there are many Pompeii."

5. Greek Cultural Influence in Roman Pompeii

A fascinating segment examines the pervasive influence of Greek culture in Pompeii, evident through the abundant Greek mythology scenes and sophisticated literature present in Roman households.

Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [33:31]: "The Romans looked at Greece. They were superior in terms of military and political force, but they felt themselves somehow culturally inferior."

He explains how Greek art and literature were integrated into Roman life, serving both decorative and educational purposes, and reflecting the Romans' dual identity.

6. Early Christianity and Inscriptions in Pompeii

The episode touches upon the tenuous evidence of early Christianity in Pompeii, referencing graffiti that hints at Christian presence and sentiments prior to the eruption.

Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [48:21]: "There are two very strange and interesting graffiti... one says just two words, so Dom Gomorrah... another mentions the Christians."

These inscriptions offer a glimpse into the early dissemination of Christian ideas and the societal reactions to emerging religious movements.

7. Children’s Drawings and Societal Exposure to Violence

Dr. Zugtriegul discusses recent discoveries of children's drawings depicting gladiators and wild animals, providing insight into the early exposure of young Pompeians to the brutal spectacles of the amphitheater.

Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [51:14]: "We have these drawings that were made by children who were exposed to the violence in the amphitheater... it's what young children were experiencing."

These artifacts reveal the normalization of violence in entertainment and its impact on the younger population.

8. The Sogno di Volare Project: Engaging Youth with Heritage

Highlighting modern initiatives, Dr. Zugtriegul introduces the Sogno di Volare project, which involves local youth in theatrical productions set in Pompeii. This program aims to foster a deeper emotional and educational connection between young people and their heritage.

Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [54:30]: "They become actors in every sense... creating an emotional connection and making the content and historical knowledge more accessible."

The project exemplifies innovative approaches to heritage education and community involvement.

9. Legacy of Wealth and Art: The House of the Vetti

Returning to elite aspects of Pompeii, the discussion centers on the House of the Vetti, renowned for its exquisite Greek-inspired frescoes. Dr. Zugtriegul elaborates on how these artworks functioned as both cultural symbols and status markers.

Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [37:29]: "These images had great importance for the whole society to imagine who we are and where we come from."

He also touches upon the transformation of religious symbols into cultural décor, illustrating the evolving relationship between art and spirituality in Pompeian society.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Dr. Zugtriegul promoting his upcoming book, The Buried Unearthing the Real Pompeii: The Other Pompeii, the Everyday Life Pompeii, and the Great Art, slated for publication in May. Tristan Hughes wraps up by expressing gratitude for the enlightening interview and encourages listeners to engage with History Hit’s offerings.

Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [56:58]: "I hope you enjoy it."

Key Takeaways

• Continuous Excavation: Modern archaeological practices balance discovery with preservation, contrasting with earlier, more destructive methods.

• Population Insights: New evidence suggests Pompeii’s population may have been significantly larger than previously estimated, highlighting complex social structures.

• Social Inequality: Discoveries like the slave quarters in Civita Juliana reveal the lives of enslaved individuals and the stark contrasts between wealth and poverty.

• Cultural Syncretism: The pervasive influence of Greek culture in Roman Pompeii illustrates the complex interplay between conquered and conquerors in ancient societies.

• Early Christianity: Graffiti hints at the presence and societal perceptions of early Christians, adding depth to our understanding of religious diversity in Pompeii.

• Childhood and Violence: Children’s drawings provide a rare glimpse into the impact of societal norms and entertainment on the youth of ancient Pompeii.

• Heritage Engagement: Initiatives like the Sogno di Volare project demonstrate innovative methods to connect contemporary youth with ancient heritage, fostering a sense of ownership and interest.

Notable Quotes

• Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [05:29]: "Everything we excavate has to be preserved and looked after and monitored."

• Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [09:14]: "You see it in other sites sometimes. But every archaeologist tends to think of Pompeii. Oh, this is like Pompeii. And actually, there are many Pompeii."

• Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [26:01]: "In Civita Juliana, we're excavating slave rooms that reveal the everyday lives of up to 60 people."

• Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [37:29]: "These images had great importance for the whole society to imagine who we are and where we come from."

• Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul [54:30]: "They become actors in every sense... creating an emotional connection and making the content and historical knowledge more accessible."

Final Thoughts

This episode of The Ancients offers a comprehensive and engaging examination of Pompeii, blending archaeological insights with social history. Dr. Gabriel Zugtriegul’s expertise provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of Pompeii’s complexities, making it an invaluable resource for enthusiasts of ancient history.

For more episodes and access to ad-free content, subscribe to History Hit at historyhit.com/subscribe.