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- [00:00]
Tristan Hughes
Hi, I'm Tristan Hughes and if you would like the Ancients ad free, get early access and bonus episodes. Sign up to History Hit with the History Hit subscription, you can also watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries, including my recent documentary All About Petra and the Nabateans, and enjoy a new release every week. Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com subscribe.
- [00:26]
Holly Fry
Our skin tells a Story Join me, Holly Fry, and a slate of incredible guests as we are all inspired by their journeys with Psoriasis. Along with these uplifting and candid personal histories, we take a step back into the bizarre and occasionally poisonous history of our skin and how we take care of it. Whether you're looking for inspiration on your own skincare journey or are curious about the sometimes strange history of how we treat our skin, you'll find genuine, empathetic, transformative conversations here on our skin. Listen to Our skin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:18]
Tristan Hughes
He's one of the most recognizable figures from ancient history, Gaius Julius Caesar, dictator of Rome, who was assassinated on the 15th of March, the ides of March, in 44 BC. Now the later story of Julius Caesar and his grand military campaigns against barbarians and fellow Romans alike. Well, it's a popular one today, but what do we know about his earlier life? Before he went to Gaul and waged brutal warfare against various tribes for years on end? Before he crossed the Rubicon and defeated the likes of Pompey the Great, ultimately becoming dictator of Rome before he met his legendary lover, the Egyptian queen Cleopatra? Well, that is what we're exploring today. It's the Ancients on History hit. I'm Tristan Hughes, your host. Over the next hour, we're going to talk through the rise of Julius Caesar, from his early years growing up in a prestigious yet rather backstage Roman family, to his capture by pirates in his early 20s, to how he started climbing up the greasy political ladder of the Roman Republic that was the Cursus Honorum. This is a story that features a lot of events and a lot of big names from this era of Roman history. The bitter rival Roman statesman Marius and Sulla first of all, then leading lights such as the stellar General Pompey the Great and Crassus, wealthiest man in Rome. There's also the great orators Cicero and Cato the Younger all feature in the story of Caesar's rise to prominence in the space of some 40 years. Now, our guest today is Professor Kathryn Steele from the University of Glasgow, an expert on politics in the late Roman Republic and key Figures of the time like Cicero, Pompey, and, of course, Julius Caesar. Buckle up. Lots of interesting information coming your way as we explore the rise of Julius Caesar. Catherine, it is a pleasure to have you back on the podcast. It's been a few years. Welcome back.
- [03:28]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Well, thank you for having me again. Always reassuring to get a second invitation.
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Tristan Hughes
Oh, you're more than welcome. And, of course, to talk about this period of late Republican Roman history that I know you've done so much work around, the rise of Julius Caesar. I was originally going to say, it's quite an extraordinary story, isn't it? But is it extraordinary at the time, at least, I guess, in the early years, compared to other big figures at that time?
- [03:49]
Professor Kathryn Steele
It's not. It's not. We mustn't forget that brilliant anecdote that Plutarch tells us about Caesar weeping because at the age of 33, I think, when he's comparing himself with Alexander and basically saying, I've accomplished nothing. And part of the context for that is, I'm sure, is he was looking at Pompey the Great, his slightly older contemporary, who had achieved massive, completely unprecedented things by the time that Pompey was that age. So Caesar's career, his early career, arguably, there's nothing particularly remarkable about it, or at least nothing particularly remarkable, given that it was a pretty turbulent time at Rome. And I think I probably want to suggest that the first time that Caesar really begins to look as if he might be something a bit different is the year 63. Right. When he's elected Pontifex Maximus and when he contributes so remarkably to the debate on the Catholinarian conspirators.
- [04:52]
Tristan Hughes
So that year 63 BC, it almost feels like. Catherine, that would be a bit later on in our chat, because if he's born in around 100 BC, so actually, that time when it kind of almost feels like a bit of a switch. He's nearly 40 at that time.
- [05:03]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think that up until that point, you can tell a story that fits him much more happily within a pretty conventional narrative about building a career as a politician at Rome. Not without some oddities, sure, but, you know, a much more conventional story.
- [05:19]
Tristan Hughes
We will explore those oddities, too. And you also mentioned Alexander in passing, and I'm presuming then you mean Alexander.
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Professor Kathryn Steele
The Great, of course, who, in the historiography of Caesar, becomes an important point of comparison. It's Caesar with whom Alexander is paired. In Plutarch's parallel lives, for example, that becomes a fairly standard comparison. Yes.
- [05:41]
Tristan Hughes
Well, Catherine, for The story of Julius Caesar as he's rising through the ranks, let's say even pre 63 BC, the earlier part of Julius Caesar's story? I mean, do we have a rich source record, surviving for learning more about it, and what were the oddities and what was the regular for the time? Is it quite a rich period for source material?
- [06:01]
Professor Kathryn Steele
It is, compared with the rest of antiquity, which doesn't, of course, mean that it's rich by the standards that a historian of the modern world would recognise as such. And it's worth saying that kind of at the outset. Although we know a lot about Caesar in comparison with other figures from antiquity, we know virtually nothing about his childhood, because ancient biographies aren't really interested in childhood as a period. They might record some anecdotes, if those are predictive in some way, but as it happens, not for Caesar. So how do we know about Caesar? Well, we have two ancient biographies of him because he's included both in Plutarch's parallel lives, but also he's the first of the 12 biographies in Suetonius's Lives of the Caesars. So we've got two biographies, both of which do what ancient biography has done, which is that they combine narrative with an interest in the smaller details of an individual, which may be morally revealing. So we do have quite a lot of anecdotal material about Caesar. The end of the Republic is itself pretty well documented. We've got all of Cicero's surviving material, speeches, letters. We've got the historian Cassius Dio, who's obviously writing in Greek rather later, but has access to a lot of good source material. We've got Appian and, of course, we've got Caesar's own writings, his campaigns in Gaul that he wrote, and then his account of the civil war. Neither of which is going to be of particular interest for us, though, of course, because both of those were written after his consulship, as was his work on the Latin language, De Analogia, which survives only in the most modest fragments. But it's an important reminder. You know, we think of Caesar as, you know, a great military leader or a great political leader, or at least a transformative political leader. But he was also one of the leading intellectuals in the late republic, so.
- [07:54]
Tristan Hughes
Not that much material for his very, very early years. But do we know much of the state of the Roman republic around the turn of the first century bc? Do we know the state of the world that he's born into and that he's growing up in, in those very early years?
- [08:10]
Professor Kathryn Steele
We can Talk in general terms in some detail about that. And we do know a bit, in fact, about Caesar's family, which is also not irrelevant, I think, to what we're thinking about. So he is born into a patrician family. Now, patrician has a very distinct technical meaning when we're talking about republican Rome. It's a status that adheres to a small number of families who were the families who were politically important before the end of the monarchy and the foundation of the Republic. And therefore at the start of the Republic, formed the membership of the Senate, right. And therefore produced the annual consuls. So the patrician class had a monopoly on political power at the start of the Republic. That's the story Romans tell us about themselves. And in terms of the internal history of the Roman Republic in its first couple of centuries, one of the most important stories is the so called struggle of the orders, which is the fight by everybody who's not a patrician, and if you're not a patrician, you're a plebeian, and that's everybody else. The fight by the plebeians for political equality which is successful. Okay, so the patrician monopoly on political power is ended over the course of the 4th century, and by the 3rd century it seems to be largely forgotten. Or at least that's the story. And so what emerges in place of the patricians is, is the nobilitas, a mixed patrician, plebeian group of families who dominate politically, wealthy, interconnected, despite the distinction between patrician and plebeian, and who accept new members gradually and reluctantly. So men from outside the nobility do join the political class, and sometimes they get to the consulship in a single generation. More often it takes a bit longer. Right, but the standard view, I guess, of the end of the Republic is this distinction no longer matters. But I don't think that can quite work. There is still a cachet in being a patrician, in belonging to one of these very ancient families. And the point is, of course, that Caesar, the Julii Caesares, were one of these ancient families. And it seems to get a bit more prominent with Sulla, who we'll come on to in a moment, who is a patrician himself and seems to value that status. So Caesar's born into a family that can trace his origins back to before the establishment of the Republic, but one that has not been hugely successful. Over the last century or so, it's had members who have reached the consulship. I mean, one can overestimate the kind of the decay of the Julii Caesares A cousin is consul in 91, for example. But Caesar's own immediate family are not politically active, politically successful, and his father dies relatively young when Caesar is a teenager. So he doesn't have quite the heft of some of the really big political families in terms of immediate access. On the other hand, his mother, Aurelia, who comes from a plebeian gens, but one that has been politically successful, is looking quite promising. And in fact, three men who may be his uncles or they may be cousins of his mother hold the consulship in the 70s BC, so it's not a negligible force. He's born within the political aristocracy. He's born from an ancient. And at the time at which he's born, of course, the dominant figure on the political landscape is Gaius Marius, who so happens to be married to Julius Caesar's aunt.
- [11:41]
Tristan Hughes
Oh, that's good. That's a good connection to have.
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Professor Kathryn Steele
One of the interesting things is the existence of that marriage, because Marius himself is a new man. And it's an interesting indication that Caesar's grandfather clearly spotted talent and ability in this new man and decided he would be a good match for his daughter. And that connection with Marius is quite important to Caesar. And Caesar makes quite a lot of this as he begins to develop his political career.
- [12:05]
Tristan Hughes
If Caesar's father dies when Caesar is very, very young, I mean, how does that affect when he is in his teenage years and he's got Marius close by him as, you know, kind of linked to his own family. With all of that going on, is Julius Caesar now having to step up very, very early with his father's passing and almost go quickly into an alliance with Marius in that very turbulent early 1st century BC or BCE world?
- [12:31]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Probably not. I mean, early mortality is such a ubiquitous feature of the ancient world that Roman law was pretty well able to deal with these kinds of things. I mean, in legal terms it meant that Caesar was not under his paternal authority, but, you know, mechanisms would be in place to manage his property. And law of property and inheritance is pretty keen on agnatic relationships, relationships in the male line. And I suspect that insofar as Caesar, as a, what, 14 year old, 15 year old, was beginning to think about his political career. The death of his father was a blow because it removed a supporter, somebody who could advocate for him, who might himself hold high office that could promote him. But the wider network of friends and relations and property was still intact. And any decisions that Caesar might have taken himself were rather taken out of his hands by a strange Episode really the first kind of, as it were, official moment. We see Caesar when he's nominated for the position of flamen Dialis. Now, the flamen is a word for priest. And there are three particularly important priesthoods, one of which is the flamen of Jupiter Dialis, an old form. So flamen Dialis. And the weird thing about this office is it's regarded as very important. But it was surrounded by a whole set of taboos and restrictions that we know about from the later writer Aulus Gellius, who has a chapter on the flamenaic, which meant that it was practically impossible to combine being flamen dialis with a political career because of you couldn't ride a horse, for example, though military activity is kind of out of it. And there are various other restrictions about travel and activity and so on. So unlike most priesthoods in the Roman Republic, including being a pontifex, which Caesar does become, or Pontifex Maximus the Flamindialis really was a religious office that you were kind of that kept you occupied with being a religious figure. So Caesar's nominated for this when the previous holder dies by suicide as part of the disturbances of the early 80s. And when the time comes to fill the office, Marius is now dead. Marius kind of takes power again in Rome in 87 and then enters his seventh consulship. And shortly afterwards dies Cinna, who is Marius ally and is in effective control of rome in the mid-80s while Sulla is absent. We'll no doubt maybe unpack those kind of complex situation in a moment. Cinna nominates the young Caesar Thor, this position. And also because the flamen has to be married and he has to be married to another patrician marries Caesar to his own daughter Cornelia. And it's not entirely clear whether he was actually inaugurated or whether he was just kind of proposed. And the inauguration didn't happen because Sulla got back and Cinna is killed in an uprising. And new various stuff happens. And Tatum, I mean, Tatum, who discusses this in his biography of Caesar, suggests that actually maybe Caesar's mother, who is likely to be quite important in kind of these discussions and thinking about it, thought that maybe that was the best thing. And he makes the point which hadn't occurred to me and I think is quite interesting. We know Caesar was epileptic, or at least we know quite good evidence that he suffered from epilepsy in some form. We know also that epilepsy was regarded as a very unfortunate portent as well as a kind of medical condition in antiquity. And it might have been the kind of thing that his mother thought is this boy is never going to have a serious political career. Make him flamen Dialis. That is an entirely appropriate position for one of his family and status. Maybe that's the best outcome. I think that's much more plausible than the retrojected arguments that say, oh, people could see Caesar was a threat already, let's put him in the flaminate to keep him on. I mean that's nonsense. Or it might just have been that they're looking around for a flament and kind of there aren't that many patricians left because I mean the problem with a hereditary status that descends through the male line is if you haven't got another way of making new patricians and there wasn't a way of making new patricians join the republican, they eventually all die out. So there aren't many patricians left. And maybe, you know, Cinna was thinking, well, we need to fill this office.
- [16:32]
Tristan Hughes
And so what happens next? So the young Julius Caesar has been given this office by the ally of Marius. Marius who's now dead, Cinna. But it doesn't feel like Julius Caesar. He's in that office for long. Because you mentioned Sulla there, didn't you Catherine?
- [16:45]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Yeah. I mean he may never in fact have held the office for whatever reason. This appointment as flamen doesn't go through. It doesn't take. And the reason it doesn't take is partly that Cinna is killed. The politics of the 80s are dominated by Sulla, even though Sulla is in the eastern Mediterranean. Because Sulla, you know, there was a round of internal disturbance which was a failed attempt to stop Sulla from taking control of the campaign against Mithridates.
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Tristan Hughes
And he's an enemy in the east. He's king of Pontus, isn't he though?
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Professor Kathryn Steele
Mithridates. Exactly as king of Pontus. He's been a problem for Rome for two, three decades. By this point Sulla is going to deal with Mithridates and he goes off. And he's engaged in campaigning against mithridates throughout the mid-80s, during which period his political opponents in Rome take control once more. But everybody knows that Sulla will come back with a well trained army. And at that point there will need to be some resolution to the gulf between him and the Marians. And that's unlikely to be resolved by peaceful negotiation. And that happens. And Sulla returns. And Sulla is victorious in his campaign to seize control of Rome and Italy. And it seems to be the case that he is unwilling to confirm the position of Caesar as flamen dialis a small element in Sulla's much larger plans to reform the Roman state.
- [18:13]
Tristan Hughes
Yes, just at that time, if Caesar's still quite a young person, does he have many interactions with Sulla? Do we know much about that relationship? Given that Sulla at that time, he's dictator of Rome, isn't he? So he's the leading figure now.
- [18:25]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Yes. After he has taken control militarily, he gets himself installed as dictator, which is an office within the Roman res publica, though it hasn't actually been used for about 120 years. The Romans come up with other crisis mechanisms in the course of the 2nd century, but Sulla decides that the dictator will be a good position because the great thing about the dictatorship, unlike other offices at Romes, you don't have a colleague. There's very little limit on what you can do. And it's emergency office, so you have emergency powers. So Sulla makes himself dictator and you're allowed to, I mean, you're allowed to be dictator for a particular purpose. He says he's dictator to re establish the res publica, which is a carte blanche for a major program of reform and also the elimination of his enemies. Because one of the things that Sulla does well, I mean initially he starts by killing prisoners of war. He famously holds a meeting of the Senate within earshot of where prisoners of war are being massacred, so that the Senate is under no illusion as to what they are required to do. But then he moves to the bureaucratization of mass murder. So he comes up with prescription lists, so he publishes lists of names. And the point is, if somebody's name is on that list, there will be no legal penalties if they're killed and there will be a reward and their property is confiscated. Now there is an argument that Sulla kind of institutes prescriptions under pressure from people who said you have to put some limits on the slaughter. So, you know, there is an argument that says this is better than what was happening immediately after his conquest of Rome. But it's hundreds of names. It's the elimination of his political enemies. Now Caesar comes under suspicion. He's the son in law of Cinna, he has married Cornelia and Sulla wants him to divorce Cornelia, which I think actually would have kind of put the kibosh on his being Flamin anyway, because the flamen has to give up his office under certain circumstances, including death or divorce a spouse. And Caesar refuses to do that. What I think is less clear is how confident Caesar was about the penalty he's likely to face for this act of defiance. And in fact, his mother and his other female relatives, we are told, heap Caesar off the prescription list. And, I mean, I think at this point the patrician status is quite interesting, because there's another good example of Sulla's apparent making an exception for people of patrician status. One of the consuls of the year 83 is a man called Scipio Asiagones, who's a patrician and is defeated by Sulla in battle. But whereas in general, those who fought against Sulla are proscribed and hunted down, he treats Scipio with great deal of lenience and respect. And even when Scipio then kind of doesn't abide by the terms of agreement, the worst that he faces is exile. But he isn't hunted down, he isn't killed. And that's often used as an example to say that Sulla had some sort of respect for the patrician status that he had. One of the interesting things about the politics at the very end of the Republic is after a period in which patricians don't seem to be disproportionately successful, if you look at who gets to the consulship in the 30 years between Sulla and the end of the Republic, there are a lot of men of patrician status. So something about the way that the Sullan res publica felt and operated seems to have favoured this particular ancient status. Anyway, there we have Caesar, no longer Flamin Dialis, having had a row with Sulla, so we're told, but actually not basically alienated from it, because what does he do now that he's free of the obligation of being Flamin? He goes off and he does some military service, and the commanders he's serving under are all Sulans, because by this point everybody is.
- [21:55]
Tristan Hughes
But this is the next part of his story, isn't it? So he's not in Rome at this time, He's. He's in the eastern Mediterranean, and he does a variety of different things whilst he is in the Eastern Mediterranean. And there are a few stories that become repeated and repeated and repeated again about Caesar at this time, aren't there?
- [22:10]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Yes, military heroism. He gets a military decoration for rescuing a fellow citizen's life during the assault on Mytilene, which is part of the hangover of the campaigns against Mithrilates. And it's at this point, isn't it, that he's captured by pirates. And so the story goes, he gets on terribly well with them and he's eventually ransomed and then he does what he says he was going to do, which is he comes back and he extirpates them, but as an act of charity he has their throats slit before they are crucified. Now this is a good story. It does various things about the Caesar myth, about the single mindedness, the military ruthlessness, but also some strange sense that he's not actually a bloodthirsty man. Because later on when we get to the civil war period between him and Pompey, one of the great kind of aspects of Caesar's self presentation is precisely his clementia, his mercy. Because when civil war breaks out in 49, there is a real fear that the victory of either side will be accompanied by the kind of violence that accompanied Sulla's victory. And in particular there's real fear that if Pompey wins, he's the main military commander on the other side, he'll be a second Sulla. Because of course Pompey really is a sullen deterrent through and through. And so Caesar definitely capitalizes that in 49 by saying, well, I shall be merciful. My victory will not be accompanied by massive bloodshed. And so we can see how that kind of aspect of Caesar can lead to the generation of stories about his mild, non bloodthirsty temper. Earlier on.
- [23:47]
Holly Fry
Foreign.
- [23:54]
Tristan Hughes
Myths, Misdeeds and the Paranormal is a podcast that delves into the dark side of history.
- [24:01]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Expect murder and conspiracy, ghosts and witches.
- [24:05]
Tristan Hughes
I'm Anthony Delaney.
- [24:07]
Professor Kathryn Steele
And I'm Maddie Pelling. We're historians and the hosts of After Dark From History Hit where every Monday and Thursday we enter the shadows of.
- [24:15]
Tristan Hughes
The past, discover the secrets of the darker side of history on After Dark From History hit wherever you get your podcasts. Caffeine isn't interesting story, those kind of first 30 years of Caesar's story. You've talked about that relationship with Marius and then Cinna and then, then Sulla, then leaving Rome. And yeah, there's various ventures, as you say, in the eastern Mediterranean siege of Mytilene, captured by pirates. When exactly that happens, I think there's some debate. But when he goes back to Rome, let's say around 70 BC so he's 30 years old by this time. He's seen quite a lot, he's done quite a lot. What position is he in at that time as we get into the beginning of the 60s and he's seen all this in his life, is it now kind of climbing the greasy pole, the political ladder, what's his situation? Let's say 70 BC it is.
- [25:18]
Professor Kathryn Steele
I mean so in 70, probably in 70, there's a little bit of debate about the dating. He stands for the quaestorship, which is the most junior of the offices in the Cursus Honorum. That is the sequence of offices that you hold at Rome, which leads to. To membership of the Senate. There are other more junior elected offices, but the quaestorship is the one that makes you automatically, by this point, after Sulla, a senator.
- [25:42]
Tristan Hughes
And Sulla's gone by this point, hasn't he? He's out of the picture yet.
- [25:44]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Oh, yeah, Sulla, actually, he resigns and goes back to private life. Dies fairly soon afterwards, but of natural causes. Whereas of course, when Caesar becomes dictator, he's never going to give it up, which itself becomes a problem. Yes. So Sulla is out of the way and the res publica has re established itself, at least to obvious sight. We are back with elected office. We have two consuls every year. The last remaining bits of the civil wars are being dealt with. It takes quite a long time. Not within Italy itself, but one I think I mentioned Sertorius, he's one of the men who held office in the mid-80s, one of Sulla's opponents. And he leaves Italy for Spain. Well, Hispania, the Iberian peninsula, where he sets up an alternative state which lasts the best part of a decade. So he gathers to himself men who've been proscribed and have got out of Italy. He has, I mean, his own army. He's taken over. So there are Roman citizens there. There are quite a lot of Roman citizens based in Hispania by now. And he basically establishes an alternative lockers of power and negotiates with Mithridates, who, despite Sulla's claims to have won a great victory, is still, surprisingly, yes, king of Pontus. And the dealing with Sertorius actually takes quite a long time. He's a very effective military commander. He defeats various Romans who were sent to him. And this is one of the places where Pompey becomes such a great figure. Okay, so we do need to just talk about Pompey, if only to remind ourselves how conventional Caesar's career is. So Pompey is an adherent of Sulla. He's the son of a man who reaches the consulship in 89 BC, and in fact, Pompey faces some legal challenges after that. But the important thing about Pompey is when Sulla returns to Rome, Pompey, although at that point in his early 20s, raises an army and takes it to Sulla. Okay, so complete illegality. But he turns Up. And Sulla is so grateful for the military forces that he kind of, with a bit of a fudge, he authorises Pompey's power. And he then uses Pompey as an important part of the team that he uses to seize control of the Roman world. To the extent that Pompey triumphs, has his first triumph, even though he has never held elected office, and the basis of which he could have imperium is slightly dodgy, probably as early as 81. And then Pompey. What's Pompey going to do? This man in his early 20s, too young really to hold any serious elected office at Rome. Well, what the Senate eventually does is they send Pompey proconsulate in the place of a consul, even though he's never held his office, to help deal with Sertorius. So he spends much of the 70s campaigning, eventually successfully against Sertorius, though it doesn't harm his activity or that of Metellus Pius, the other Roman general, that one of Sertorius followers actually stabs him at a banquet. And then the mopping up is quite straightforward. And that's how Pompey kind of is spending his 20s. And then he gets back to Italy and there's something for him to do because there's the Spartacus revolt, which the Romans have been making a total mess of in terms of suppressing. So he. He turns up just in time to claim all the credit for wrapping it up, which is maybe one of the reasons why he and Crassus disliked each other so much. And then, after a bit of toing and froing, does agree to dismiss his army. But surprise, surprise, he's allowed to stand for the consulship, considerably ahead of the legal age and not having held any earlier officers. So that's what a really spectacular career looks like. Okay.
- [29:05]
Tristan Hughes
Yes, exactly. So, I mean, Julius Caesar is up to that time, then, Catherine. Although, yes, he's been in the eastern Mediterranean. He sorted a stronghold, and being captured by pirates in these stories, compared to these other figures at the time, Crassus and Pompey, you know, it's nothing near the same level. And he. He sees that.
- [29:22]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Yeah, yeah. So Pompey and Crassus are consuls in 70. They are probably consuls at the time at which Caesar has to stand for.
- [29:28]
Tristan Hughes
The quaestorship, the bottom right, the lowest rung.
- [29:32]
Professor Kathryn Steele
And okay, he's elected, but there are 20 quaestors every year, so it's hardly that big a deal.
- [29:37]
Tristan Hughes
I'm loving this. I'm loving this, Katherine. Actually, just before we go on to that and how it kind of progresses, I mean, this political ladder, you mentioned how Crassus and Pompey, so they're the consuls and stuff, Caesar's looking up almost from several rungs down as the quaestor. This whole process, it's called the Cursus Honorum, isn't it? So, I mean, could you explain just very briefly what we mean by the curse of senorum?
- [29:55]
Professor Kathryn Steele
So it emerges over the course of the res publica, but it's very clearly standardised and one of the things that Sulla does is he reaffirms what happens. So you can stand for the quaestorship when you're 30, and that's kind of pretty much an essential office now, because that's the office that also gets you into the Senate. At 39, you can stand for the praetorship, and at 42, you can stand for the consulship. And you can't be praetor if you haven't been quaestor, and you can't be consul if you haven't been praetor. There's an additional office called the Aedile ship, which you can hold in the mid-30s. And Caesar actually does hold that, because one of the things that makes the Aedile ship quite attractive is it's a magistrate that's based in Rome, so it's not a military office. It's about kind of organization of the city of Rome, and it has some quite significant religious duties to organise festivals, and the details of those festivals are very much up to the aediles to decide, the pair of them. So if they decide to spend a lot of money, they can put on fantastic displays which are generally regarded as adding to their popularity.
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Tristan Hughes
Right.
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Professor Kathryn Steele
Because these are free public shows which people love. So invest heavily in the theatrical shows or the gladiatorial games or the beast hunts or whatever. This is all great. So we've got Letters in the 50s BC from Caelius, who's a protege of Cicero, to Cicero in Silesia, saying, please send me some panthers.
- [31:13]
Tristan Hughes
Standard. Yeah. Yep. Okay, fair enough.
- [31:16]
Professor Kathryn Steele
They make for a good show. Right. And as I say, Caesar will subsequently be aedile in the mid-60s. He holds the office with a man called Marcus Calpurnius Bibulus, who will be Caesar's colleague as consul in 59. And one of the really interesting things, I think, about Roman political life is if you come from a. If you're a boy in a political family, you're going to know kind of very early on who your likely rivals are because of the way that eligibility for office is dependent on age. And there's considerable cachet in holding the office as early as you possibly can. So you're kind of looking around the.
- [31:50]
Tristan Hughes
Schoolroom and thinking, who's going to be my rival? Ukuba, my friend.
- [31:54]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Yeah. I'm going to be standing in the same year anyway. Although they are ostensibly colleagues as Aedile, and we're jumping ahead a bit, but it may be worth tossing in and therefore collaborate on everything they do. Nobody pays any attention to Bibulus. It's all about Caesar. To the extent that they. I think the story is that they're like Castor and the Temple of Castor and Pollux, which everybody just calls the Temple of Castor. So they're a pair, but Caesar just mops up all the credit and popularity.
- [32:17]
Tristan Hughes
So he's inquisitor before that, the Rank below in 70 BC. And is it that time when he's in that position or just after that story you mentioned right at the start, seeing the statue of Alexander the Great. Caesar's in his early 30s. Alexander died at 32. And if Caesar think he's a similar age and he's got nothing similar to that of standing, but then coming back and getting the edile, the next rank in 65, as he mentioned there, I mean, does he outdo Bibulous just because he. He spends more money? I mean, it feels like money must be such a big thing for these patricians if they're trying to climb the greasy pole, especially if you're holding public events.
- [32:50]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Yeah. We're not quite sure how Caesar manages to scoop up all the credit. I mean, I think it must partly be to do with charisma and his ability to present himself as a politician to create that kind of appearance of rapport with the Roman people. But money is really important, and some of it will have been Bibulus's. Very little of it actually is likely to be Caesar's. It's going to be the men who were lending money to Caesar, because one of the things that we are consistently told about Caesar is that he's heavily in debt, so he's borrowing money in order to finance his career. Now, we need to contextualize this, partly because people don't tend to go around lending money without security in Rome, So we're probably talking about liquidity issues rather than actual impoverishment. But Cicero certainly owes a lot of money, which is borrowed against property. That may not be very liquid. We just don't. I think have good evidence about how the Yuli Kaisare's family wealth matched up against other families. What we do, I think, know fairly confidently is from the 2nd century BC onwards, senatorial wealth is not only increasing as a class as a result of conquests of the Eastern Mediterranean, but also diverging within that class. And, you know, it is true that the Julii Khazaris have not produced any of the great generals who have been conquering the Eastern Mediterranean. And so some of the more spectacular wealth may not have been part of that family equally. I'm ever so slightly hesitant about kind of taking all the stories on face value. I mean, the most famous one is about the election to the Pontifex maximus in 63, where Caesar is supposed to have said to his mother Aurelia, I'll come back, Pontifex Maximus, or I won't come back. The point being that he had bribed so heavily to win that election, he was therefore so heavily in debt that if he didn't manage to secure election, you know, disaster. And again, these stories about Caesar as a man who is prepared to take enormous risks, that kind of bold visionary. I mean, yeah, great stories.
- [34:47]
Tristan Hughes
Does it also then emphasize. And I feel this kind of also goes back to our story when he talks about the rise of Cicero. I think earlier on in Julius Caesar, he goes back to Rome for a bit, either just after or before he's taken by pirates. When he goes back to Eastern Mediterranean, that he's a lawyer for a bit. And maybe on his way back to Eastern Mediterranean earlier, he's going to the island of Rhodes where there's a big rhetoric school, if I'm correct, is that the other thing that is very, very important and we should also be considered when Caesar's rising and he's getting these different positions like the Aedileship, and others at that time would also need that skill, which is the skill of kind of giving speeches of rhetoric. Is that right at the center of it?
- [35:24]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Well, Caesar is clearly a very effective orator. It's part of his multifaceted. You only have to read the Gallic wars to see that this is somebody who is a genius with language. It's a different kind of genius from Cicero, but it's doing something equally extraordinary with Latin that is completely, completely novel. Right. I mean, we tend to regard Caesar as a model of how you write Latin. He created that model. Right. It's all new and it's bizarre. There's a lot about Caesar's Latinity that is absolutely extraordinary. I mean, totally Wonderful. I remember just being bowled over by Caesar when started to read a bit when I was at school. I mean, extraordinary stuff. But we shouldn't make too much of Caesar as an orator, or at least as a. As a lawyer. I mean, you're absolutely right that one of the things he does early on in his career is he brings some prosecutions, a couple of prosecutions, which is interesting because actually, I mean, there's no Crown Prosecution Service or anything. Every prosecution at Rome in the so called Judicia Publica, the big jury courts for charges which we would generally call criminal though, that, that as you know, that criminal civil distinction in Roman law is a bit problematic. So being a prosecutor is one of the relatively few ways in which a young man in his 20s can make an opportunity for himself on the public stage. I mean, there can be competition about who can bring charges against somebody, but if you win out and are identified as the prosecutor, then you have an opportunity to speak in a legal context. But on matters of the various charges that are heard in front of these courts tend often to be of public significance. You have an opportunity to make your mark in that way. And there's clearly a phenomenon of the early career prosecutor where young men choose this way of advertising their existence to the Roman people. I suspect that a lot of it is based on ghostwriters, but that may be a bit unfair on Caesar himself, and that's great. And he does actually publish the speeches that he delivered, but they're not successful. The men he prosecuted were both acquitted, which doesn't necessarily imply that he's incompetent, just that kind of decisions around jury activity are quite complex in Rome, and that they're both very early on in the Solan period, and that maybe he'd chosen figures rather too well embedded in the establishment to be successful. Interesting debate to be had about what's going on. So you're right, oratory matters to politics and Caesar was good at it. It's more difficult to say that he builds his career on being a really effective public speaker. In the way, say, that Cicero clean did.
- [37:50]
Tristan Hughes
Foreign.
- [37:57]
Holly Fry
Tells a Story. Join me, Holly Fry, and a slate of incredible guests as we are all inspired by their journeys with psoriasis. Along with these uplifting and candid personal histories, we take a step back into the bizarre and occasionally poisonous history of our skin and how we take care of it. Whether you're looking for inspiration or on your own skincare journey, or are curious about the sometimes strange history of how we treat our skin, you'll Find genuine empathetic, transformative conversations here on our skin. Listen to our skin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:47]
Tristan Hughes
So we've covered kind of quaestorship and aedileship, so we get down to around 63 B.C. catherine, now why is this year so important in the story of Caesar's rise kind of getting more to the fore?
- [38:59]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Okay, three reasons. First of all, he stands for and is elected praetor. Not probably hugely surprising that he's successful, but this is the next stage of his career and we'll want to talk in a moment about what he does as Praetorians. Secondly, he's elected as Pontifex Maximus. Right. And thirdly, he participates in the debate on the Catilinarian conspirators. So Pontifex Maximus, right. So the fact that he had been kind of abortively flamen Dialis doesn't seem to have stood in his way though interestingly, the position of Flamen Dialis is not itself filled until Augustus. I suspect that the problem is nobody quite knew what to do if Caesar had kind of been flaming. Can you replace it while he's still alive? Maybe just too difficult to go there. So he's co opted as a pontiff quite young. So that is a mark, right? That is a mark of distinction relatively early in his career. Probably his major achievement actually up until that point. And that will be a reflection of family and background and the fact that, you know, whatever his originally rocky start was, he does have connections within the Roman governing class. Remember I talked about those relatives of his mother, the aurelii cottae produced three consuls in the course of the 70s BC which is pretty good going. Three brothers and he gets into the college of pontiffs, which is fine because Roman aristocrats, particularly patricians, do often get co opted quite young into these positions. What is much more surprising is his decision to stand for the position of Pontifex Maximus because he's standing against two other much more senior men, much more eminent. He is still relatively junior. He hasn't held the consulship. I mean, we do have examples of earlier pontificates Maximi who haven't yet got to the consulship, who were elected to bit young. So it's not unprecedented, but it's a bold move to stand for election. And it is an elected position, so you have to be a pontiff in order to stand. But it's then election and he is accused of heavy bribery to secure the position. And he's successful. So there he is, head of the state religion, and he clearly, over the coming decades, makes use of that in his public profile, but probably not a huge amount yet, because of course, between 62 and 45, he spends almost all of his time outside Rome. He's in Rome for his consulship, but that aside, he's mostly away. And unlike the flamendiolis, which has to be in Rome, it seems actually relatively easy for the Pontifex Maximus to be absent.
- [41:21]
Tristan Hughes
So he not only has quite a high role now in up the Cursus Honorum with the praetorship, but he's also head of the religious sphere as well, Les Pontifex Maximus. So he's holding both those positions at the same time. That's quite something.
- [41:34]
Professor Kathryn Steele
It's only unusual in the sense that the Pontifex Maximus, more normally, at least in recent years, has been somebody who has already held the consulship and therefore is not going to be holding office. But the juxtaposition of offices isn't, I think, in itself a problem. But what is striking is that he's successful in that election. And then the third thing in 63 is his involvement or not, with the Catilinarian conspiracy. So to recap, Lucius Sergius Catilina, another patrician, in fact, from a family even more decayed and unsuccessful in recent decades than the Julii Caesares, another sullen protege, tries and fails for, I think the third time to be elected to the consulship in the summer of 63. And he's been making various inflammatory statements up to this point, but this seems to be the moment at which Catiline tips over into more direct action in order to secure his position. The whole thing is quite murky. There is an armed uprising. What exactly Catiline was planning in the city of Rome, and at what point he chooses to join forces with the armed uprising in Etruria, is less clear. But certainly he ends the year in a position of open revolt against Rome. Now, some people thought that Caesar was part of this conspiracy, some people didn't think Caesar was part of the conspiracy, but tried to make it seem as though he was bar in order to blacken his name. There are plans to name him as a Catilinarian adherent in the great debates in December, which fail. And actually Cicero does not leave open the door for that. But the really striking thing is the debate on December 5, 63 BC, because what has happened at that point, Catiline has left the city of Rome and is at the head of the armed forces In Etruria. There is considerable alarm about that in Rome at the time, though in practice, the military mopping up in January will be relatively straightforward.
- [43:23]
Tristan Hughes
And Etruria is just north of Rome, isn't it?
- [43:25]
Professor Kathryn Steele
It's just north of Rome, yes. Tuscany. What is more alarming is that there were envoys, ambassadors in Rome for one of the tribes in Gaul, the Allobroges, who were based in southern Gaul and who had come to Rome to complain about kind of rapacious behaviour by Roman administrators and traders and so on. And the Catalinarian conspirators in the city of Rome attempted to suborn these men, to join with them, and therefore to instigate an uprising in southern Gaul to be simultaneous with the military activity in Etruria. And it is alleged, elsewhere in Italy. And the Allobroges decide this isn't actually a particularly good offer, and they tell Cicero about it. And Cicero says, okay, what I think you should do is get some letters from the men you're talking to in which they set out and guarantee their support, and then I think you ought to set off back for Gaul, and I will arrange for you to be captured as you're leaving Rome and your possessions searched and we will find those letters. And Cicero sets this up and it happens. And therefore he is in a position. Cicero is in a position to bring to the Senate, which he does on December 3, five letters in which various Romans kind of reveal their treacherous plotting. And what is particularly horrifying about this is some of these Romans are quite senior. So there's an ex consul who was holding a praetorship that year, and I think a couple of other senators. So this is kind of the heart of the establishment, are apparently in league with foreign enemies. So this is a big deal. The men involved are arrested, and then there's a big debate on December 5 as to what to do with them. And from Cicero's point of view, this is where his public career goes, starts to collapse. Doesn't look like at the time, but it does, because the result of that debate is a vote for execution, which Cicero oversees on the evening of December 5th. And that's very, very problematic. Legally, he has no legal authority whatsoever to execute citizens without trial. Now, we know a lot about this debate because Sallust, who wrote a monograph on the Catilinarian conspiracy, includes towards the end of it, an enormous account of the debate in the Senate. We also have Cicero's speech, which he publishes himself as the fourth Catilinarian. Interestingly, Sallust gives Cicero virtually no part in the debate. He concentrates instead on the argument against capital punishment and the restatement of the argument for capital punishment. And the argument for capital punishment which wins the day is restated by Cato, who will become known as Cato Uticensis, the Cato who fights against Caesar during the civil war and dies by suicide after his defeat at Utica, that great Stoic sage of the late republic. And the case against capital punishment is put by Caesar. And this is really interesting in terms of the dynamics of senatorial debate, because what seems to have happened is that Cicero kind of opened the debate and then one of the consul's elect, who is going to take office in a few weeks time, Silenus, puts the motion of death and everybody agrees with him because you're called to express your opinion in a senator royal debate in order of seniority. And it is not until we get to the praetors elect and Caesar, who's called among the praetors elect, that Caesar, rather than just saying I agree with so and so. If you're a senator and you're called in a debate, you have to say something. But it doesn't need to be anything more than I agree with X. Right, don't have to make speech. But Caesar stands up and he gives what Sallust at least records as a very long speech in which he argues against capital punishment on grounds partly of illegality, but partly on efficacy and partly on humanity. And it's incredibly influential. Everybody afterwards sort of says, oh no, I didn't really mean death. No, no, I don't think we should do that. And Silenus stands up and changes his mind and it's all a total mess until the younger Cato stands up and says, no, come on guys, this is a crisis, decisive action. And Cato's measure is the one that's actually put to the vote and it's passed. And then Cicero takes the senatorial decree and he goes off and he executes it within about an hour.
- [47:34]
Tristan Hughes
So although Caesar is on the side of the debate that loses. Is he in a stronger position because of what he's done regardless?
- [47:41]
Professor Kathryn Steele
I think so, I think so. I mean, it's quite a high risk strategy for Caesar, given that there have been rumors that he's involved with Catiline. Okay. Because he's apparently defending them. So he takes a risk, but it allows himself to locate himself on the side of popular rights. And Interestingly, earlier in 63, there's a legal case that Caesar, I don't think himself talks to but somebody who's very much known as one of his allies is heavily involved in a man called Labienus, who, if you've read the Gallic wars, you will see that Labienus is there as second in command constantly. And in early in 63, there's a really interesting case and we know quite a lot about it because Cicero offers the defense. And it relates to events from 37 years earlier. In 100 BCE, when there had been civil disturbance in Rome, there'd been an attempt to. To stand illegally for office. There had been the assassination of a candidate, much of it led by the tribunal of the plebs, Saturninus and Saturninus and his followers. Things get completely out of hand. Marius is consul and Saturninus and his followers take refuge in the Senate House. Prior, they must have assumed to some sort of negotiation or they must have hoped prior to some sort of negotiation to resolve the crisis. What actually happens is that a band of citizens race up and climb onto the roof Senate House and stone them to death using the roof tiles. And it's kind of all hushed up. Marius kind of loses a lot of reputational kind of oomph from this whole fracar and catastrophe. And it's a disaster, but the whole thing is basically hushed up. But then some years later, it's revived by the prosecution of a man who's accused of having been involved, who I think is chosen just because there aren't that many people who. Who were thought to have been part of the mob who are still alive. And it's a show trial in the sense that it is an opportunity to talk through issues of senatorial authority and the right to trial and popular rights. And it's pretty clear where Caesar is placing himself in that trial of ruberius earlier in 63. It's very prescient in some ways because of what happens later in 63. But it kind of is developing a consistent story for Caesar as somebody who, despite his patrician background and despite the fact that because he's a patrician he hasn't been tribune of the plebs, he's not eligible to hold that office, nonetheless does seem to be alert to the will of the people. And that's where his emphasis on his links with Marius become relevant, which he does do. So he talks about Marius when he gives funeral speeches for some of his female relatives, where he talks about Marius. And one of the things we're told he does as Aedile is restore some of Marius statues and other memorials, which of course Sulla had very much tried to eliminate from.
- [50:31]
Tristan Hughes
From.
- [50:31]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Right. So he's developing a complex public profile as he moves up the curses on the wall.
- [50:37]
Tristan Hughes
Catherine, I wish I had time to ask so many more questions about this, but as we've got to kind of 6261 almost kind of to wrap it up, because it feels like the consulship, I guess, at the time, it feels like he's risen to the highest position, doesn't he? So if we finish the rise of Julius Caesar with him attaining the consulship, what are his next moves to get to there in 62 BC? Is it quite quick for him to get to the highest position in the land?
- [51:00]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Yes. I mean, his praetorship gets off to a bit of a stuttering start because there's some immediate anti Cicero feeling that is stirred up by one of the tribunes of 62. And initially Caesar seems to be quite sympathetic to that. He backs off very quickly, though, when the Senate make it clear that there is no sympathy for this, and the rest of his praetorship passes off smoothly. And he then does what praetors normally do at this period, which is he takes military command. So he goes back to Hispania, where he holds military command reasonably successfully. In fact, quite successfully, because when he returns to Rome, in order to stand for the consulship, there is an attempt to prevent him from doing that by holding up the debate on his triumph. Because one of the kind of weird technicalities of Roman religious and political practice is that the man who holds a triumph must hold imperium. He must hold the right to command that he has held during the campaign that has led to the triumph. And you surrender imperium at the moment at which you cross the city walls. And you can only stand for election if you make your profession of candidacy in person. So there's an attempt to prevent Caesar from standing for the consulship, 59 by delaying his triumph. And what Caesar does. And again it becomes part of the Caesar myth because it's this kind of ruthlessness and dynamism and decisive action is. He says, fine, forget my triumph, and he crosses the city walls and he makes his profesio, and he stands for election and is elected. So he doesn't get a triumph out of Hispanio, and arguably he makes up for that much later on. But that's another story, Catherine.
- [52:24]
Tristan Hughes
It's been a fantastic chat. I mean, so many details. And also you've highlighted how. Yes, although there are oddities in his earlier life, in his earlier rise, it's only actually quite late on in the story before he becomes consulship that he almost rises to the fore becomes a bit more extraordinary. I. I didn't realise that as much as I do now that actually sometimes Julius Caesar's early, early, early story, those oddities are put to the fore in contrast, actually to the majority of it, which is very similar to any other patrician at the time.
- [52:53]
Professor Kathryn Steele
And remember too that the survival of the biographies means that we do have more anecdotes about Caesar than we do about other people. I mean, most Roman politicians, you know, we notice they exist when they hold the consulship.
- [53:05]
Tristan Hughes
Catherine, this has been fantastic, such a pleasure to have you back on the podcast and it just goes to me to say thank you for coming back on today.
- [53:11]
Professor Kathryn Steele
Well, thank you.
- [53:15]
Tristan Hughes
Well, there you go. There was Professor Katherine Steele talking through the rise of Julius Caesar and his many stories until he attained the consulship in 59 BC. In the meantime, if you'd like more from Catherine, well, Catherine has featured on the podcast once before where she talked through the rise of Cicero. You can find that episode in our Ancients archive. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Ancients. Please follow this show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps us and you'll be doing us a big favour. Now don't forget, you can also listen to us and all of History Hit's podcasts ad free and watch hundreds of TV documentaries when you subscribe@historyhit.com subscribe. Lastly, if you want more ancient history videos and clips, then be sure to follow me on Instagram ncientstristen. Now that's enough from me and I'll see you in the next episode.
- [54:21]
Holly Fry
Our Skin Tells a Story. Join me, Holly Fry and a slate of incredible guests as we are all inspired by their journeys with psoriasis. Along with these uplifting and candid personal histories, we take a step back into the bizarre and occasionally poisonous history of our skin and how we take care of it. Whether you're looking for inspiration on your own skincare journey or are curious about the sometimes strange history of how we treat our skin, you'll find genuine, empathetic, transformative conversations here on our skin. Listen to to Our skin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.