The REAL Reason Canva Made Affinity Free For Designers

Summary

The Angry Designer Podcast
Episode: The REAL Reason Canva Made Affinity Free For Designers
Date: November 18, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Massimo (A) and Sean (B) break down the seismic shift of Canva making Affinity Designer free and what it truly means for the design industry. The hosts explore deeper motivations behind Canva’s bold move, question the idea of “creative freedom,” and reflect on Adobe’s status as the industry leader. With their signature blend of humor and hard truths, they challenge designers to think critically about the future of creative tools, ownership, brand perception, and the next generation of design professionals.

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Main Discussion Points & Key Insights

1. Affinity Goes Free: Too Good To Be True?

• [00:00] Massimo sets the stage: Affinity Designer—once seen as the only credible alternative to Adobe—has gone free after its acquisition by Canva, sparking massive industry discussion and suspicion.
• “When a billion dollar company starts giving things away, there's always a catch.” (A, 00:27)
• Skepticism abounds: Is this move truly about creative freedom, or part of a bigger strategy?

2. Canva’s Motivation: Redemption or Takeover?

• [02:19] Canva, now a billion-dollar company with a huge free user base, is positioned to challenge Adobe.
• The hosts highlight contrasting perspectives: Canva's public position is “no catch” and a mission to “preserve creative freedom” (A, 03:21), but many designers are doubtful.
• “In democratizing design, they devalued design.” (A, 05:22)
• History matters: Canva’s past impact on “professional” design and its reputation as a tool for “decorators” rather than designers.
• Emotional sore points about design being commoditized by Canva’s “template” philosophy.
• [08:05] “They called it design. … They didn’t democratize design, they commoditized design.” (A, 08:05)

3. Free... But At What Cost?

• [08:34] The difference between buying and owning versus “free to use”—users no longer receive a perpetual license; the terms can change at any time.
• “Free to use means free until we change the rule.” (A, 10:06)
• Practical model: Full access to pro tools, but AI features cost extra ($15/month via Canva Pro)—affordable relative to competitors, but still a long play to drive users into the Canva ecosystem.

4. Comparing Adobe and Canva

• [11:35] Discussion on Adobe’s costly subscription model, poor handling of AI training/data usage, and increasingly restrictive access for students and institutions.
• Adobe’s cult-like status persists, despite resentment over expense and lack of generosity.
• Emotional attachment: “Adobe is akin to Mac … we’ve been using them for like 30 years now. How do you not?” (A, 13:52)

5. Strategic Plays & Long-Term Implications

• [16:07] Canva’s real play is about shaping the next generation of designers:
  • By offering elite tools for free to students/schools (non-commercial use), Canva aims to create lifelong users.
  • “They’re shaping the whole next generation of designers.” (A, 21:04)
• Critique of Adobe’s failure to make their software accessible for educational use.
• Massimo’s personal example: His daughter can now learn actual design, not just “decorating” with templates.

6. Brand Perception and Professional Credibility

• Despite Affinity’s “street cred,” Canva’s brand is still seen as amateur or “uncool” in professional circles.
• “Nobody wants to have a Canva tattoo on their arm. But how many of us … would have … an Apple on my arm because I’m an Apple guy for life?” (A, 24:26)
• Rebranding misstep: Upgrading to “Canva Pro” rather than “Affinity Pro” undermines the professional appeal.

7. Hands-On Review and Transition Concerns

• [22:28] Massimo tries Affinity himself for internal agency works—positive first impressions, quick learning curve, near-complete tool parity with Adobe for daily tasks.
• “Within like 10 minutes, I was already up and just like, okay, yeah, this is fine, I can do this.” (A, 27:35)
• Uncertainty around legacy, file handling, and overall professional migration.

8. Designers’ Choice & Industry Impact

• [32:44] Regardless of Canva’s intent, the move creates meaningful choice for designers who have felt locked-in for years.
• “In the short term, designers now have a choice. And I think that’s pretty fucking cool.” (A, 32:48)
• The door opens for real change, with price and accessibility as major motivators for potential mass migration away from Adobe.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Massimo on skeptical optimism:
  “Are these the people who should be in charge? Like, what the fuck do they know about design? Because again, it’s like they’re the ones who actually gave design a shit-kicking for quite a while.” (A, 06:41)

• Sean on designer identity:
  “The people that work at Adobe … are pro and have been designers and know what they’re doing.” (B, 06:59)

• Massimo on the business model:
  “Free to use means free until we change the rule.” (A, 10:06)

• On Adobe nostalgia:
  “I loved it when I could buy it and own it.” (A, 13:46)

• Strategic vision:
  “Canva is trying to grow the next set of designers. … Adobe really fucked up. … Adobe basically made design inaccessible for students.” (A, 18:34)

• Massimo, about the learning curve:
  “Any designer who wants to make that jump and is willing to work at it for a couple days, I guarantee you that’s all it’s going to take … we’re not getting paid for this.” (A, 28:48)

• Sean on pro credibility:
  “Would you want to tell another designer, yeah … I’m using Canva now?” (B, 25:52)

• Massimo’s endorsement:
  “Go for it, is my opinion. … I’d recommend using it and say you guys be crazy not to at least try it.” (A, 35:42, 36:16)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00 – 03:05: Setting up the Affinity/Canva news and initial skepticism
• 05:22 – 06:59: Devaluing vs. democratizing design, Canva’s legacy
• 08:34 – 11:16: Ownership vs. free-to-use, licensing caveats
• 16:07 – 21:04: Canva’s long-term play—shaping future designers, education access
• 22:26 – 28:43: Massimo’s practical review and real-world transition
• 31:36 – 32:48: On saving/exporting quirks and feature parity
• 32:44 – 33:45: The importance of choice and challenge to Adobe’s dominance

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Tone & Takeaway

The episode blends blunt industry criticism with cautious hope. The hosts maintain their “no-bull” style—direct, irreverent, occasionally profane, but grounded in years of professional experience.

Key takeaways:

• Canva’s move is less about pure generosity and more about long-term strategic domination, particularly targeting young designers and education.
• Caution around “free-to-use” versus actual ownership is warranted, but the value is real—especially compared to Adobe’s costly, restrictive practices.
• Brand perception remains a significant hurdle, with Canva’s legacy as a “non-pro” platform persisting even as its toolset matures.
• The door has opened to genuine choice, which is worth celebrating and exploring.

Final Advice:
Try Affinity now that it’s free—at least for personal and non-client work. Stay alert, don’t buy the marketing spin, and always look for who’s really defining your “creative freedom.”

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Hosts:

• Massimo [A]
• Sean [B]

For more insights:
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“Stick rude up and stay angry.”

Transcript

[A]

So by now you've heard that Affinity Designer just went free. For over 30 years, Adobe ruled design software. And now the underdog, the only real professional grade alternative for us is giving it away. Sounds good, right? Too good. Because when a billion dollar company starts giving things away, there's always a catch. In this episode of the Angry Designer podcast, powered by Wix Studio, we're breaking down the biggest shakeup in design software history. What this means for your career. Creativity. And if free actually means freedom. But here's the twist. This might not actually be a victory for designers at all. It might be the start of something much bigger, more sinister, more dangerous. After all, this is coming from the company that gave us all Canva. And we all know what Canva did to designers. Let's go.

[B]

Cheers. Here we are, back at it.

[A]

So let me ask something. How does that free beer taste? Oh, yes, I know you like your free beer, Sean.

[B]

No, I like to pay way more than my beer is actually worth.

[A]

Free beer is good. Everybody likes free beer.

[B]

Awesome. All right, I'm gonna guess what the topic is.

[A]

You know what? Free has been the top of the word of the week. It certainly, I mean, I think everybody now has. If you haven't already heard, Affinity Designer is now free. Right? So now you guys don't have to pay for it, you don't have to buy it, it's just download and use it. So it's kind of stirred up a lot of. Yes, couple weeks, right?

[B]

It certainly has.

[A]

And I mean, why, why wouldn't it? Right? Because I think this is a pretty bold thing. Right? But literally everybody's talking about it, everybody's suspicious, everybody is crying. You know it's a lie. Adobe's going through hell right now with this. Right? Well, I mean, again, of course they're sweating on this one because again, don't forget, you know. Okay, so Affinity is owned by Canva. Right. And Canva is not a small company.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. When you look at their user base and versus their active users. Okay, granted, yes, Adobe is still the leader right now.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But Canva has got a giant user base. If I'm not mistaken, they have a bigger user base. Their paid user base isn't as big as Adobe's.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Their free user base is huge. Okay, okay. And again, I think this is all part of this long term strategy. But if there was anybody that was set up to be able to take on a company like Adobe, this might actually be that company. Love it or hate it, you know, from a business standpoint, from a Leader standpoint, you know, they're, they're, they're still, even though they're a billion dollar company, they're still acting like a startup, you know, like doing crazy shit, doing weird.

[B]

Stuff like this, right?

[A]

So even the owner, you know, he's gone out and, and, and even made claims because of course they're all going to know. What's the catch?

[B]

Everybody's asking him that. I think he's had to field this question. It's like. So a lot of people say, I think he started it out like that. A lot of people have been asking.

[A]

So again, one of the, one of the co founders, Cameron Adams, okay. Who was a, an ex Googler and he had a lot of Google expertise and he really made a difference in, in the growth of how canva came about. But regardless, he went on and he made this big public announcement about, you know, their stance, of course. And there's no catch. You know, we're not using your data, we're not training our AI, you know, and they're betting on creative freedom, you know, and they keep dropping this word, right? It's like they want to preserve creative freedom. But I mean, again and again, it's a, it's a funny choice of words to say the least. Right, But I mean, again, I think, you know, they're saying it's, it's their intention to, well, basically democratize the shit that's been going on right now.

[B]

And everybody around the world has gone, yeah, right, Pretty much.

[A]

Right, Pretty much, I think. But everybody's really skeptical.

[B]

But there's that. And who isn't?

[A]

We?

[B]

You and I talked about this earlier. How can you not, how could you not be like, what's your, what's the catch?

[A]

Because again, if they're saying they want to redefine creative freedom, is it really freedom? If they're defining it, is it, you know, I'm just putting it out there. Right. And again. And it's like there's a lot of things at play here that, you know, whether you're for or against. I think it's just to our best interest to just, you know, understand. Yes. You know, and I think that's what we want to talk about today. Yes. I think this is a fun topic and it's a hot topic.

[B]

It's hot. It's huge. It's huge.

[A]

And you know what else is huge?

[B]

What's that?

[A]

The Anger Management for Designer newsletter. I highly recommend you guys sign up for that.

[B]

Yes, that is huge.

[A]

You can sign up for that. Just, just want to drop that one. Okay. But anyway, sorry, what's your, yeah, no, no, no.

[B]

This, this could be one of the pivotal moments in, in our industry.

[A]

I think this is, you know what I mean? I think it's basically one that it's, it's almost as big as this whole idea of how AI has kicked our ass for a little while.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Which I think this kind of feels nice because it's kind of given people kind of something to look forward to. But again, something good. Well, yeah, but let's, let's not forget though that it's something good, but it's coming from a company that designers have grown to dislike or at least professional designers. And that's why this is such a love hate experience. Right. Because Canva's mission, okay, you know, granted, they started all notable, you know, like, oh, we're going to democratize design. Right. But in democratizing design, they devalued design. They, they, they were a hindrance to what, you know, to all graphic designers. To professional graphic designers. And let me stress that professional pretending to be graphic designers, right, but the professional ones, okay, they're the ones who, you know, devalued it, you know, brought down our value now, now made the word Canva almost like the word Google. Right? We'll just, we'll just. Canva. Yeah, we'll go on to Canva and just, and, and you know, that's really driven, you know, I don't know, like a sore spot in a lot of designers, you know, experiences, in my opinion. And now these people who basically took the word design and pissed all over it and devalued it, now they're coming out and saying that they're going to, they're going to restore it with creative freedom.

[B]

Right.

[A]

For designers.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I mean, there's something that just doesn't sit right with that because are these actually the people that really should be in charge, like, what the fuck do they know about design? Fairness. Yeah. For doing this. Right. Because again, it's like they're the ones who actually gave design a shit kicking for quite a while. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Now I guess. Yeah, you're right because I, I would. The, the people that work at Adobe, I'm sure are, are pro and have been designers and know what they're doing.

[A]

Right. So yeah.

[B]

You think?

[A]

Well, I, I think, I think they seem to know. I mean they kind of set, I, I think they set that, they set the standards anyway. Right. They understood what the market was and they provided tools. Yes. For designers. And again, Adobe's been around for so long that they've grown the tools and, and how designers use and they've done.

[B]

A wonderful job of that.

[A]

They have.

[B]

There hasn't been many of the rollouts of the updates or upgrades or anything like that that I have not liked.

[A]

That had flopped or anything. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, they've made some really shitty purchasing decisions over the years. Yeah, they buy companies and they like fold them up. Yeah. You just can't make them work or they can't put them in their ecosystem. But yes, that's an Adobe problem. That's exactly what they didn't do is they didn't initially start saying, oh, you know what, you don't have to design. Just use our free templates where canvas whole thing was all template driven.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And they called it design. Yeah. You know, and this is the part that they didn't democratize design, they commoditized design. And again, there's a huge.

[B]

That's a big difference.

[A]

A big difference. I even two weeks ago I had a customer who is like, oh, yeah, well, you know what, we'll just go on a Canva and I'll get my girl internally to just whip it together. And I'm just like, oh, wow. Yet I'm just told you I'm going to charge you, you know, grand to do this. And this is why.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He basically just took my idea and decided to have his intern fucking do it in Canva. So this is what I mean by, you know, there's a sore spot that Canva is the company that is purchased Affinity and is now giving Affinity back to the design community.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I question, you know, how legit that is feels. What they're not coming completely for telling us, okay. About this whole thing. Right. Is is they're giving us the old Affinity, okay. Software, which was only last year was amazing. Right? It was like 80 bucks. No, no, I mean it was 80 bucks. You own the license free and clear, okay. They're not giving you the license now with this new one. Okay. So Affinity isn't free to own. Affinity is free to use to use rent. And there is a huge difference. Okay? It's a huge difference. Because the thing is, you know, it's free to use is a lot different than a purchasing agreement. When you purchase something under an agreement, you actually have legal rights to what you purchased. Okay. What you create, what you purchased if you were using. Free to use, okay. Read all their licensing agreements. They own the rights to the software. Okay. You can use it, you know, and right now, yeah, their licensing is pretty cool. It's pretty open. Right. You know, but the thing is, they can change that at any point, at any point, for any reason they want you because you don't have control.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. You don't, you absolutely don't with this. This is yours to use for free. And there is a huge difference. Right. So again, basically, free to use means free until we change the rule. Right. Okay. And I don't want to necessarily think that they're 100% going to go down this road because they've also been pretty forthcoming about how they're going to pay for this. Yeah, right. And he did, I think, I think, I'm pretty sure he said the, the whole intent, of course, is, you know, you can use the software, you can use the pro level stuff, you know, download it, use it, create. And it is, it's pretty legit. And it'll create everything that Illustrator and Photoshop does. Right. Wow. But if you want access to the AI tools, then you'll have to just bump. You'll have to pay for the AI tools license in canva. Okay. Okay. And that unlocks the AI tools available. So, so, and they're, and they're banking that, you know, of the millions of people that are going to be downloading this, a big chunk are going to be paying for these, these AI tools through canva. Okay. And they're not outrageous by any means. Like, they're not. Right. I think it was the, the pro tier to get all their AI functions and everything is like 15 bucks a month.

[B]

15, 15.

[A]

It's nothing. It's not.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Well, and in all fairness, it really isn't anything because I understand, you know, I haven't played with it, but I understand that the Canva AI tools are pretty good. Oh, okay. I understand. You know, they can, they can create images and this and that. So you're going to be paying that, if not more than that, just to subscribe to something like Mid Journey.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or any of the other AI, you know, whatever. Yeah, you'd be paying that anyway. Yeah. Okay. Know this. It's not, it's not outrageous. Okay. They're not gouging you like Adobe would by any means. And let's be honest, they would be wood.

[B]

Oh, they're, they're taking your credits right now. You've only got. Yeah, so, so what they had was for free is now. Well, okay, you have 10 credits for left. You know what I mean? And then you got to buy more.

[A]

You know, Adobe's heading in that direction.

[B]

They are.

[A]

I've had people tell me that they were in on those meetings and that initially what Adobe was proposing to charge and how they were going to manage all the AI crap was much, much worse than what they've come to. Oh my God. So that means the road is there and they plan on getting there. Okay. But I think this, this whole move right here might actually stop them from doing that. Okay.

[B]

Do you think?

[A]

I. Well, I think that now their whole strategy is going to have to Adobe because there's no question how many people have jumped.

[B]

There are like a million people in less than a week have jumped ship.

[A]

This right? Yeah.

[B]

This is just an article I read.

[A]

Yeah. But still that's, and that's, that's huge. I don't think that's outrageous.

[B]

No, no, no. I don't think so. Yeah.

[A]

And it's free, good quality software.

[B]

There's. Yeah, exactly. And when we have bitched about Adobe many times. How expensive. And it's always something with them.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

It is like the time with the ex. You, you, an employee left halfway through. But you still have to pay license.

[A]

License till the end of the term. They have cancellation fees. They make you pay half of what's left with the contract. That's okay. Which is ridiculous. Exactly. Not to mention they had that whole shady thing about their service agreement.

[B]

They were.

[A]

Oh Then afterwards they changed two or three times to backtrack it. Okay. You know that they used all your. To train them to train their AI, you know, and again they weren't forthcoming. So Adobe is, is, is, is a horrible company. I think there's a cult of Adobe.

[B]

And I, I am a full fledged card carrying member then because I love it. I love Adobe and it would be hard for me to kind of, you.

[A]

Know, I loved it when I could buy it and own it.

[B]

That was the greatest to see. And maybe that's, maybe it's just my.

[A]

Nostalgia and coming through as we've been using them for like 30 years now. How do you not to. Adobe is akin to Mac and coincidentally.

[B]

This was released the day after Adobe Mac.

[A]

Oh yeah, it was. So again, all the hype from Adobe Max kind of disappeared because it was like, what the fuck?

[B]

It was just like everybody's talking about this now. Yeah.

[A]

How much, how much were those free tickets from Adobe Max? Oh wait, there was no free tickets for Adobe Max, was there?

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

Nothing's for free. Yeah, and I do think that they have motives. There's always a K. And I got some, some ideas here.

[B]

Okay. Oh, oh, put on, put on our tinfoil hat. Here we go.

[A]

But I don't think that these are crazy, right?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think that, you know, by Canva, buying affinity, okay, they're trying to bring pros back, you know, into the ecosystem that is Canva.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Okay. So I think, number one, you know, that was the original reason why they bought the software because the software was respected and it was, it was a good alternative to people who refused, right, to have Adobe. That's why they bought it in the first place, right? And they paid dearly for it. Okay? So I think, you know, now again, Canva doesn't necessarily sell software though. That's the challenge. Canva is more about the ecosystem, okay? Everything that, that it has, right? So when Adobe sells, you know, tools for creativity, okay, Canva sells the workshop that creativity is done within. So it gives you some free stuff, but then there's a lot of pay upgrades, you know, so the environment that they've built is kind of like the real ecosystem here. And the thing is, until now, nobody's taken it serious, okay. Because unfortunately, Right again. It's, it's been more of a decorator tool.

[B]

It hasn't Canva's reputation, like their, their reputation kind of precedes them on that.

[A]

Right. So I do think that, you know, number one, this is a good way for them to bring in a lot of pros to give them instant credit because almost. And again, let's face it, we know some of the people that they support, we know some of the people on their board. Right. James Martin swears by them, you know, Will Patterson swears by them. But if I'm not mistaken, I think even Debbie Millman's on the board. I think. Don't quote me on that, but I think she might be. So again, it's not that they don't have some big hitters.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, on, on their board, but this is a good attempt for them to now get more pro cred under the belts. Okay? So that's the short term, I think for this, I do think that they have a long term plan. And when I say long term, I'm talking five, ten year long term. Okay. Which sounds ridiculous. It goes like nothing in business. It can go so quick. But I think what they're trying to do is they're trying to grow the next set of designers. And what I mean by this is Adobe really fucked up. Okay? And I'm, I'm, I'll be the first to say it, right? They ignored, you know, future design.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. They, they didn't really give schools much of a break for their systems. Okay? Much. Okay. When you have to buy like a license, like a perpetual license for all these kids and this. Schools can't afford that shit, right?

[B]

No, not at all.

[A]

And Adobe was not doing any students favors, okay? The student membership is not cheap.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

They should be giving it for free.

[B]

Yes, okay.

[A]

But no, you know, and again, they did for a little while, like years ago, they did. Okay? But that all stopped when they became greedy corporate fat cats. Okay? So, so Adobe basically made design inaccessible for students. Okay. Which was a challenge. Okay. So my daughter, for example, okay, Amelia, you know, I always talk to him like a man. You gotta learn how to do this stuff yourself. And design. She's like, well, what am I gonna use? And I'm like, you're right. Yeah, go to Canva. No, don't go to Canva. Go to Kittl. No, don't go to Kittl. They're great. But what those platforms are doing is they're teaching, you know, my daughter, who's a high school student, who's now going to be in university. They're teaching her earlier on how to decorate, not how to design. She's not learning hierarchy. She's not learning, you know, grids. She's not learning any good, strong, practical design principles. Right. She's just learning how to make things look pretty. That, that Canva thing that they did, okay? So, you know, she learned that. Okay. From Canva. So now that Canva's like, look, I'm going to offer this for free. Yeah, well, you're damn right that. She's downloaded the software. And now I'm like, no, download the software. Now I can help her. I can talk her through grids, I can talk her through layout. She doesn't necessarily have to worry about their paid package stuff. Right. Because she just needs something if she wants to create a logo, a word, she wants to have fun and do a layout. Right. And that's what this is good for. So by affinity offering this incredible tool, now open license to schools, schools can use it.

[B]

Schools can use this. Okay.

[A]

They can't use it commercially, but schools can use this. So now schools can, now a high school can actually download all these copies for their kids under their school license. They can now train these kids. These kids are now going to use this at a young age and then one day they're going to become pros. They're going to be pros already using this software.

[B]

And why would they change?

[A]

Exactly. Because the software will do 90%, 95% of what we're doing on a daily basis. Right, right. So I think that's the law. They're shaping the whole next generation of designers where a case. Yeah.

[B]

If you're going to go after younger people and then that's all they know coming through school. School is. I know we poo poo.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Education. But the tools that you work on are become ingrained in you, in what you do.

[A]

Right. So. Exactly.

[B]

Oh, wow, that's, that's, that's heavy, man.

[A]

Right, right, right. So I do think that this is happening, but again, you know, let's not fool ourselves. This is not creative freedom, okay. Because there is a plan. This is more like creative franchising. Okay. And they, you know, they have a model that they're going to basically use on my kid, on your kid, on someone else's kid, on the platform. And it's just going to be a rinse and repeat. So good on them. Yeah. They're giving the tools. Yeah. But they do have a long term and, you know, as long as they're, you know, not going to price themselves out and turn into a greedy corporate fat cat like Adobe. I think that, you know, this plan, I think it's legit. I think it's got good legs to just to actually make some motion. But will it convert? That's the thing. Will it convert? Because designers have got a lot of apprehensions on this jump.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't tell you how many people have reached out, you know, through our podcast emails, you know, hey, I think you should cover this. What do you think about this? There's a lot of apprehension, you know, like what? And my question is, why haven't people jumped?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But at the same time, I haven't yet made that jump.

[B]

No, I. Terrified.

[A]

Well, downloaded. I did download. You did? Okay, download. And I've given myself a timeline that I am going to start creating all of our Angry Designer stuff on there. I'm gonna.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

Not yet. The professional stuff. Right. So. But again, and so if you see any sort of, you know, change in the way it looks, okay, blame the platform. But if you don't, yeah, I'm going to be fine. But I'm going to use our stuff. Not, not my client stuff. Right. But our stuff as my, my training ground. And I. Right.

[B]

What's Adobe's reaction to this going to be? What are your thoughts on that?

[A]

I don't think that they. I don't think you think they care. They're like, ha, ha, ha, right now. I do. And, and again, I think it's. That's bad because of perception. Because unfortunately, and this is a. I think a huge apprehension for graphic designers is Adobe, whether it's a cult of Adobe, whether it's, you know, that, that it's professional software. But there's this allure of you're a professional if you use Adobe, if you use Adobe.

[B]

Yeah, this is a gold standard.

[A]

This is the gold standard. And you can easily. And I know there's thousands of people out there making a living on Canva. I know there are. I know that people are using Canva. I cringe, you know, but it, it does not have that, that brand Persona. It doesn't have that brand to be professional software. And I think that's going to be a huge, you know, blocker for this platform that people aren't going to take it seriously. People took Affinity serious. Okay. But Affinity Designer. And then Canva bought it. Okay. And then people kind of questioned it. Why now they're giving it away free, which I'm good for. But here's the thing. So Affinity, okay. Street cred. Pretty good, right? It's that, it's that underdog.

[B]

Yep, yep.

[A]

But if you upgrade, you have to upgrade to their Canva Pro plan. How is that professional? Yeah, it should have been Affinity Pro. Yes, you should have. Just so again, because there's that.

[B]

That dirty sound of Canva we. I don't like.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't want to.

[A]

Goes back to, are you guys brand experts? Are you guys designers? Because I talked to a lot of people and everybody's like, duh, like, nobody wants to have a Canva tattoo on their arm. But how many of us, you know, would have at some point in our life been like, wow, let's get an Apple on my arm because I'm an Apple guy for life.

[B]

Or are you gonna go to Canva Max this year?

[A]

Right? Like, no. It's kind of missing something.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Like, I kind of feel like if I show up at a Canva event, it's gonna be a whole bunch of tick tock artists doing dances everywhere all day long. I know, and I don't mean to harp on Canva people, but it is a brand perception. Right.

[B]

And they have to fix that.

[A]

Well, they're not doing it a favor by telling, you know, professional designers switch and upgrade to Canva Pro. So I think that's a huge thing. Right. Like, they really should have leaned into the credibility that Affinity had built, because Affinity was legit pro software underdog. But they were legit pro software. And by them not tapping into that, whether they were trying to flex, whether, like. Well, no, we're the bigger company.

[B]

Yeah. We're the big dogs.

[A]

If you want to tap into the real professional designers and get, get that credibility. Yeah. You don't force. Because that's, that's the one part that would make me very. I don't know if it's. I wouldn't want to admit it.

[B]

I wouldn't know. Would you want to. Would you want to tell another designer? Yeah. Hey, James, you know I'm using Canva now.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

You got the Batman Robin smack, right? Exactly.

[A]

Batman slack.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Because again, the software is pretty solid, you know? It is.

[B]

Did you like it?

[A]

Is that. Yeah. But again, it's. It's that whole. It's different.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so. And is that only because I'm just. We've just been so conditioned to Adobe. Is this the Adobe cult that has brainwashed us? Like, I. I don't. Because in all fairness, I did download the app. I liked it. It was very different. Okay. The one thing I appreciate is the very first thing it asked me to do is it's like, hey, are we allowed to save your, you know, save your usage save, you know, use this for training this. And it gives me an option. Very first thing. Yes or no? I'm like, I can. And I was just like, no, screw it. Actually, I said yes.

[B]

You did? I was sure.

[A]

Why not? Because they asked for it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you know what?

[B]

There you go. There you go.

[A]

It's just like they asked for it. So I was like, you know, do it right. I'm happy, then I'm in there. It's kind of neat because, you know, as opposed to jumping from Photoshop to Illustrator to this, like on my bar.

[B]

It'S all in one thing.

[A]

It's all in one. There's, there's like buttons at the very top that just. You click the button and you can just flip between one. But, but the thing is that your artboard stays the same. It's still the same image. You're layering it up, but then it's like you want to, you want, you know, a Adobe Photoshop type tools. You click on photo, you want your layout, you click on layout. And then it just, all it does is replace the tools, your images, images in the same. Because again, I'm still. I'm constantly flipping between Photoshop and illustrator. Totally. Okay. InDesign is. Yeah, I don't touch rap, but that's okay. Use Illustrator for that.

[B]

Walking InDesign.

[A]

That's a cult all to its own. Yes. I respect you guys. It actually has virtually everything that is in my day to day Illustrator, you know, interface in my toolbox. It's all there. So, you know, it's. Sometimes the icons look a little different, but they're similar enough that I know exactly what they're supposed to do. I know what my overlap tools, my exclude tools are. I know layers. Within like 10 minutes, I was already up and just like, okay, yeah, this is fine, I can do this. I do suspect that there'll be a little bit of a learning curve when you then want to go into Photoshop layers and this and that. I'm sure there is. And then the third. So like I said, there's three, there's four buttons at the top. There is your Illustrator like toolbox, your photoshop like, your InDesign like. And the fourth one is their AI tool. So all their AI stuff is a button. So you don't have to use it, don't pay for it, you get it for free and you get a pretty powerful thing. That you can create any logo you want, you know, any. I guarantee, I know that, you know, in the right hands that this thing is just. It's perfect.

[B]

It's going to be good. Yeah.

[A]

It's going to be great. And it's going to be perfect for that next generation of designers.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I know that any designer who wants to make that jump and is willing to work at it for a couple days, I guarantee you that's all it's going to take, is a couple of days. And then we're not getting paid for this. I'm just saying, you know, legitimately. This was my first reaction of using it and I'm like, you know, I'm going to try and I'm going to try to use, you know, to do all of our angry designer stuff. Stuff. Yeah. If it works, I would challenge somebody else here to see if we can do client work for it. And I mean, best case scenario, we start saving like 30 grand a year and get rid of fucking Adobe. And I would be happy to.

[B]

I would be happy just that alone. So what happens with Adobe stock?

[A]

I don't really want to use it, however.

[B]

You don't? Okay, hold on.

[A]

However, if you do upgrade to Canvas AI, they have like a hundred million images of their own. So again, you know, Adobe stock thought of everything. In all fairness, every other image in Adobe stock right now is AI generated.

[B]

It is.

[A]

I spent half an hour today looking for a nice image because everything I liked was AI generated. So what does this tell you? Like, they are corporate, greedy fat cats. They don't. And just the fact that a photographer. Exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And yet they claim that they are for. They're for creatives, you know, who is actually for the creatives here right now. What. What Canva is doing, it's a pretty big, bold move. Move. And while I question if they actually know what designers are and what. And you know, and again, in all fairness, because, you know, I got my, you know, at least they're willing to give something back to designers and there's.

[B]

Something noble about that.

[A]

I agree. Right. It feels like, wow, somebody actually just like, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And that's the vibe I'm getting. If that's their brand part, the. The part of the brand that they're trying to do, they have done a good job of that. I.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm not a fan of Canva. Never ever will be. But that's. That's pretty solid.

[A]

It is. It is pretty solid. I think that's solid. I think giving people this choice is solid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think giving people a professional tool for free is bold. Is admirable. Huge. It really does stick it to them. It really does stick it to a movie.

[B]

Speaking of which, apparently, and I don't know, I'm just talking out of school here, I've seen people that the suffix when you save it is your job title dot fu. No.

[A]

And I don't know getting this dot fu today.

[B]

Okay, so it wasn't that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That was a rumor going around so far.

[A]

And again, one weird thing is it's, it's. Though almost everything I did in there I had to export. It wasn't allowing me to save as. That was a little quirk that I.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm still trying to learn this software.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I thought that was a weird thing. There was no simple save. It seemed like it was a constantly, you know, export as. But right again, this could be because of their whole, you know, their ecosystem, they want you to kind of upload into their cloud.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It doesn't force you to do any of this stuff. So again, I, I wish they did that though, the dot fu. If that was the case, I would have switched tomorrow. Everybody here would have been forced. You know, everybody's on a three day return. Yeah. Learning how to use this. So. So again, you know, my concerns I think aren't even that, that bad. You know, I. Look, if they're forcing you to upgrade to a 15amonth plan, you know, in all fairness, it's cheaper than AI platforms that you're going to use. It's so much cheaper than what Adobe's using.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I don't like the fact that they're trying to redefine what creative freedom is because that's not really. It's not. But you know, at the same time it's, you know, what they're doing is, is if anybody is going to move the needle on behalf of designers, this is the company that's going to do it.

[B]

These are the guys.

[A]

They didn't have to do this. They really didn't. And granted, I know that it's a long term plan. I know that they're trying to define what the next level of gen, you know, the next generation. I know that it's clear as day. Right. It's just logical. It's a business move.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But in the short term, designers now have a choice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think that's pretty fucking cool. And you know, depending on what, what your reasons are for, you know, wanting to try something new, you know, you now have a good Choice, you have an opportunity, solid choice.

[B]

And we have not had that in years.

[A]

Forever, it feels like.

[B]

Forever, it feels like.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

Even when we're coming up, it was always Adobe products.

[A]

It's been really the past couple years, ever since Affinity really kicked ass and then they were acquired, but prior to that, no, you were stuck on the Adobe and God knows how much we had to pay them. And it wouldn't have been bad if they didn't feel like. Like they didn't give a shit. We were, we are just, you know, their customer. They're not a design, you know, they're not trying to do anything for designers on behalf of designers. Designers are their customers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's it. They have just learned how to market well to designers to make designers feel like, you know, they're for designers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, you know, let's make no mistake here. They're totally not for designers. They're for that bottom line.

[B]

They're for money. Yeah.

[A]

And. And this whole jump to AI and all this that happening and using our material to train their AI, and now this stock is all AI and they're cutting designers, they're cutting, you know, photographers out of the loop. If you saw Adobe, Max, all their great AI tools are just to remove the designer out of the equation. Okay. It's like, it's. It's basically like, I don't know how it's going to help designers be more creative. You know, some of the stuff is pretty cool. But in all fairness, they're. They're not there for designers. They're there for their bottom line.

[B]

For the bottom line.

[A]

They just done a really good job at branding the cult of Adobe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And more so than the cult of Mac. You know, at least Mac still feels it still stays true to the fact that it's going to be simple and make complex simple and make technology simple. You know, Mac has still held true. Apple has held true to that.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

To me. No. I don't even know what they're doing anymore, so. But yeah, so.

[B]

And there's so. And you know, the funny thing is too is like, I think this is the only play for Canva, because Adobe is so ingrained in what we do that free is the only option.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

And it's definitely a bold one. And it's a bold one because you're right. In all fairness, it's just like right.

[B]

Down to the bottom.

[A]

Infinity wasn't expensive. It was under a hundred bucks.

[B]

Oh, was it?

[A]

It was under a hundred bucks to buy I know, and that's what I mean. It wasn't. And you still got a free license to try it, use it, whatever. Right? So you're right. This is just that next iteration. Yeah, but. But this is a long term play. There's no question this is a long term play. Yeah, but at least now we have a choice. We have a free choice. And we have choice by a company that is claiming that they're trying to give back to creative creativity. They're not saying designers, which is interesting, and that's great. I'm glad they removed that from their words. But they kept on going on about, you know, creativity. Creativity. So. So good for them in that sense. Yeah. So I would say go for it, is my opinion.

[B]

Okay, well, I'm gonna try too. Maybe I'll do that with band stuff then.

[A]

You know, it's just. It's worthwhile. Something new, and it keeps us sharp.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, guys, I hope this answered some questions for people, and we are going to be using this in our agency. And I'll give you guys an update for sure in the future about this. But again, we're not sponsored by this. We had nothing to do with these guys. And even though we have friends who are sponsored by this, we're not asking for anything. We didn't even reach out to them because we didn't want to put them in an awkward spot. Exactly. This is purely our feelings based on our industry, our experience, our business. And I'd recommend using it and say you guys be crazy not to at least try it. Done.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

All right, don't forget to hit up our newsletter. Anger management. More of this, but in newsletter format. And it's not too annoying. Yeah. All right, everybody. My name is Massimo.

[B]

My name is Sean.

[A]

Stick rude up and stay angry.