10/13/2025 Chief Sexually Assaults Dispatcher, People pointing lasers at Police chopper, Fat troops get pulled from deployment, Peace for Gaza, Trump pays troops during shut down...

Summary

The Antihero Podcast: Episode Summary

Podcast: The Antihero Podcast
Date: October 13, 2025
Hosts: The Antihero Podcast panel (C, B, E, D, and others)
Guest: Lance Fisher, retired Deputy Chief, Palm Bay Police Department
Episode Focus:
Wide-ranging breakdown of policing and military culture, leadership failures, administrative accountability, recent law enforcement controversies (including a chief caught on video sexually assaulting a dispatcher), and ongoing social dynamics around policing standards, community trust, and public safety narratives.

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1. Main Theme and Purpose

This episode centers on the complex issues facing policing and first responder culture in America, offering a blend of commentary, critique, and insider perspectives—especially on holding police administration accountable, recent viral incidents, and the real impacts of leadership failures. The discussion critiques both traditional and contemporary policing and investigates how policies, culture, and personal choices shape public trust and officer behavior. The episode is also notable for its focus on reform, with guest Lance Fisher advocating for greater transparency and transparency after his own experience battling internal department issues.

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2. Key Discussion Points and Insights

A. Police Administration and Accountability

• Lance Fisher’s Role:

  • Retired Deputy Chief from Palm Bay PD, forced out for pushing back against administration (“Me and the chief didn’t come... see eye to eye with some of the administrative stuff that was going on. So for 15 months, him and I have been battling it out in the council chambers.” [03:46])
  • Started public audits, “Thin Blue Lie Audits,” to expose and challenge police mismanagement.

• Culture of Silence:

  • Problems stem from administrators protecting each other, perpetuating bad leadership and shielding misconduct.
  • Auditing administration is vital for fixing deeper issues: “Bad cops come from bad administration and bad leaders.” (B, [04:19])
  • The “thin blue line” has turned from solidarity to a mechanism for silence and self-preservation.

• Public Accountability Theatrics:

  • Unions and “votes of no confidence” are often toothless.
  • Chiefs sometimes allowed to resign instead of being fired, preserving pension and reputation even after egregious behavior.

B. Headline Incidents in Law Enforcement and Military

1. Chief Sexually Assaulting Dispatcher (Cordova, Alabama)

• Chief caught on video physically touching a young dispatcher against her will.
• Mayor’s evasive and dismissive response:
  • “Nobody wants to be in a position like that. Flesh is weak...” (Mayor, [78:01])
• Panel notes this is widespread, systemic abuse enabled by insular leadership.
  • “You cannot tell me that chief walked in there and that was the first time he had ever... done that to a female. It’s probably hundreds.” (B, [79:11])

2. Lasers Directed at Police Helicopters

• Antifa-linked activists allegedly encouraging use of lasers against police and military choppers during protests.
• The hosts decry the lack of federal punishment and equate this with domestic terrorism.
  • “It is absolutely terrorism.” (E, [20:37])
  • “That’s a hundred lasers on a helicopter... at an antifa rally.” (C, [21:15])

3. Texas National Guard Troops Pulled for Failing Fitness Standards

• Viral image of overweight soldiers, public ridicule, and an official statement about dismissals “for not being in compliance.”
  • “The zippers were holding on for fucking dear life.” (E, [11:25])
  • “I mean, just think about this as, like, an optics... At what point do you go, hey, man, we’ve got three or four individuals and the Secretary of War, Defense, whatever he’s calling himself...” (E, [10:55])

4. Trump’s Role During Shutdown and Middle East Updates

• Panel notes Trump paid soldiers during a government shutdown—unlike previous administrations.
• Progress in Gaza: Israeli hostages released, though regional instability persists; skepticism that peace is sustainable due to historic and cultural complexity.
  • “He’s taken the wind out of the sails of everybody that hates Trump when he brings peace to the Middle East.” (C, [68:53])
  • “Peace in the Middle East is not a thing... it can never be because of the way their culture—that they’re so divisive...” (C, [69:07])

C. Police Training, Standards, and Qualified Immunity

• Training Gaps:

  • “Look at some of the training budgets... less than $2,000 for 100 cops for the year. That’s crazy.” (D, [58:17])
  • Money gets diverted into conferences/leadership trips rather than meaningful, routine scenario-based training.

• Qualified Immunity Debate:

  • Idea that immunity only protects officers’ families from civil ruin, not cops from criminal/departmental consequences.
  • Guest and hosts advocate: fixing hiring and training will naturally reduce the errors that feed lawsuits.
    • “Wouldn’t it be better to train than to have lawsuits?” (E, [57:46])
    • “That’s a big problem in law enforcement because we can’t hold individual officers accountable even when they clearly violate policy, violate law.” (D, [56:58])

• Propaganda and Fluff:

  • Critique of “shop with a cop” and PR efforts used to mask inadequate policing rather than acknowledge failures.
    • “The police department comes into a propaganda machine... pretending or trying to convince you that we’re good because of all the other things that are going on.” (D, [40:21])
  • Need for honest admission of error and stronger focus on constitutional, consistent law enforcement.

D. Leadership Pathways and Corruption Cycles

• Promoting from Within vs. Outsiders:

  • Promoting chiefs internally often rewards silence and perpetuates a corrupt system; outside chiefs more likely to expose problems.
    • “When you move people up the ranks, that means they’ve been silent. They’ve never bucked the system.” (D, [94:44])

• Discipline as Scapegoating:

  • Leaders often use discipline to “set an example” rather than truly reform behavior, resulting in fear, not progress.
    • “Discipline is not supposed to be like everybody in this room. See what happened to him? Off with his head.” (B, [44:20])

• Challenges to Whistleblowers:

  • Whistleblowers often face retaliation and isolation while complicit staff are promoted.
  • “I lost my job because I came out... he's going to be the chief of police in April 2026. The guy that sat silent.” (D, [92:08-92:23])
  • “When you watch fellow employees getting railroaded... but you’re like, lieutenant’s list. I'm on the sergeant's list.” (B, [98:42])

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3. Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Audit Activism
  • “When chiefs aren’t held accountable, how do they hold their department accountable? ...That’s the problem.” (D, [05:01])
• On Law Enforcement as a Social Contract
  • “We represent the people. We work for the people. We do not work for the government.” (C, [29:44])
• On Pandering and Community Relations
  • “They think that I’m gonna go have coffee with people all day, every day. I’m never gonna have to pull this gun. I’m never gonna get punched in the face…” (C, [35:09])
• On Use of Force and Video
  • “Use of force is ugly. It’s ugly, it's not pretty... It could be completely justified... but what it looks like on camera to the public should never drive the outcome.” (B, [54:27])
• Mayor’s Reaction to Chief’s Assault:
  • “Nobody wants to be in a position like that. And flesh is weak and you know, people get caught up in stuff sometimes that they don’t intentionally or don’t necessarily want to do. And I’m not making excuses for anybody. I’m just saying everybody gets caught up in situations that aren’t good.” (Mayor Pate, [78:01])
• On Qualified Immunity
  • “I don’t believe that the way things look should be the precipitate or this is why we’re going to discipline this guy because it just looks bad. No, absolutely not.” (D, [56:38])

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4. Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:46] - Lance Fisher explains his fight with Palm Bay’s administration and starts his auditing effort.
• [11:25] - Discussion of overweight National Guard troops pulled from deployment.
• [18:16] - Anti-police protests and people using lasers against police choppers.
• [21:02] - Photo analysis: hundreds of lasers aimed at a Blackhawk.
• [24:39] - Leaders (e.g., in Chicago) ordering police not to help other cops in danger.
• [40:21] - Propaganda vs. honest accountability in police PR.
• [56:38] - Deep dive into qualified immunity and department discipline.
• [74:31-79:19] - Video and analysis of Cordova Chief caught assaulting dispatcher; mayor’s dismissive response.
• [92:08] – Real-world impacts and costs to whistleblowers; silence rewarded with promotion.

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5. Episode Flow and Tone

• Language/Tone:

  • Unfiltered, candid, with frequent humor and camaraderie.
  • Frank, critical, occasionally profane.
  • Mix of anecdotal storytelling and pointed analysis.

• Audience Experience:

  • The episode delivers strong, often harsh critiques of policing from experienced insiders and a military vet.
  • Discussion stays engaging, with running jokes, historical asides, and callers (including a comic “gayest thing I ever saw in the infantry” [102:15-107:49]).

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6. Closing and Next Steps

• Call to Action:
  • Listeners encouraged to follow “Thin Blue Lie Audits” on YouTube/Facebook for more admin transparency efforts (D, [120:01]).
  • Panel promises continued focus on exposing systemic law enforcement/leadership issues on future episodes.

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7. Summary Table: Quick Reference

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Police Admin Failure & Audit Need | Culture of silence, real change means holding brass accountable | 03:46+ | | National Guard Troops Pulled Report | “Fat troop” optics, lack of transparency on standards | 10:55-13:10 | | Lasers on Police Choppers | New protest tactics, lack of fed consequences, public danger | 18:16-21:32 | | Viral Use-of-Force Video Breakdown | Propaganda, misapplication of discipline, transparency issues | 44:20-47:27 | | Cordova Chief Assault Case | Systemic abuse, mayor’s weak response, panel outrage | 74:31-79:19 | | Qualified Immunity and Lawsuits | Training vs. litigation, public misunderstandings | 56:38-62:13 | | Panel’s Critique on Police Hiring/Promotion | Perpetuating incompetence, insularity, coverups | 94:44-97:12 | | Whistleblower Costs | Silence rewarded, truth-tellers punished, lack of union support | 98:05-100:24 |

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This summary outlines the breadth of discussion, the major controversies tackled, the hosts’ and guest’s strong reformist stance, and a selection of powerful quotes reflecting the episode’s tone and urgency. It serves as a thorough guide for listeners new to the issues or seeking a digest of this highly topical and candid conversation.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[C]

All right everybody. It's October 13th. It's 1111 11am Pushed it back for you guys. Yeah, info and entertainment for the over caffeinated and underpaid because it's cheaper than therapy, right? I knew you were going to say that. Good.

[B]

We didn't plan that.

[C]

We didn't even plan it. But I didn't.

[B]

10 minutes late.

[C]

I didn't want to be like say.

[B]

This.

[C]

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[B]

That quick, huh?

[C]

That quick.

[D]

Just like that.

[B]

Yeah. The benefit to that is before we introduce our guest is a lot of doctors are super, super conservative. Your local doctors, their insurance doc. These guys are actually looking to optimize you. So if You're. They say you're in the normal range, but you're still 20 points from like, optimal or the top range. These guys will put you up near the top of that. You don't want to be at the bottom of the year levels. You want to be at the top of your level. So with us today is Lance Fisher, who's become a very good friend and an activist here locally in the Palm Bay area, former deputy chief of Palm Bay. If you want to give us a little rundown of how the viewers can get in touch with you and how they can see your stuff, I know you're. You're coming along good with the podcasting and YouTube videos and auditing of administration. So tell us about it.

[D]

Yeah, so, as you know, I retired from the Palm Bay Police Department as a deputy chief there. Me and the chief didn't come up quite see eye to eye with some of the administrative stuff that was going on. So for 15 months, him and I have been battling it out in the council chambers. And, you know, about three people show up. So this last week, I tried to put together a Thin Blue line or Thin blue line audits. And so it's just my first week. I think I looked like a.111 subscribers. I got four views. So I was pretty excited about that.

[B]

Where's Brett? We only got four views, too.

[C]

Yeah. Thin Blue Line is apparently racist, too.

[B]

Now, let me tell you. Let me tell you the importance of what Lance is doing, because one of the biggest things everybody gets on Cops for is saying we don't hold each other accountable. So when we criticize cops, especially me, for their gear and all that other stuff. Oh, you're just a hater. No, I'm being honest. And then Lance is taking it to the next level with auditing the administration because you guys complain about cops and this down the other. Well, bad cops come from bad administration and bad leaders. So if you're auditing and keeping track of them and holding them accountable, you'll give them no choice but to hold their own accountable. So I really think what you're doing is great. It's kind of the same thing that I do with my page, but I can't. I do a lot of comedy stuff. You're being very serious. So I think it's very important what you're doing to hold admin accountable. And who better to do that than an admin guy?

[D]

Yeah, and I appreciate that. And I think that's the problem. When chiefs aren't held accountable, how do they hold their Department accountable. I think, I think that's the problem.

[B]

Yeah. That's the topic of the day.

[C]

Or you can be like Jimmy and just hate cops all together.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Hey, hey, I, I'll, I'm gonna have to. Just go ahead and stand by it, man.

[B]

I'm just gonna have to, I think.

[E]

Unless you're in first.

[C]

Are you okay?

[E]

Yeah, yeah. I'm not walking it back, bro.

[B]

To quote, I think he said he's the most anti cop person.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Of all. Yeah.

[E]

For Largo pd, Ben Crump.

[B]

And, and then.

[C]

Oh, yeah. Let's give a shout out to Largo pd.

[E]

Largo pd. Man, I got, I got, I got lit up coming back from the podcast and I. One of the guys was in 25th.

[C]

Really?

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

He was in the same division you were.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

So he came in, he came up to the vehicle, was like, hey, what, when were you there? What battalion were you in? And I told him. And, and then they gave me challenge coins, which I actually have right here.

[C]

Get you a little challenge coin.

[E]

It gave me two of them. One of them's got a rat on it because they were his internal defense. Internal affairs. Wait, you got Office of Professional Standards.

[C]

Whoa. You got.

[E]

And then the DUI with the, the motorcycle.

[B]

How do you think a Delta guy would break down that traffic stop? Would he be able to understand it? Because the show's not the same without a Delta guy. So we're talking about traffic stop. So I wonder how that would be broken down. They do a lot of traffic stops, don't they?

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

No, they don't do any.

[E]

Yes. So. But you know, the only organization, the only police organization. I have had nothing but fantastic interactions with Largo pt. I've had to deal with them three times. This is the first time I was the subject.

[B]

But yeah, we talked about them on the podcast.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you came on and.

[E]

Yeah. When we had that other Margot pd.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Jimmy hates all cops. Anti cop. Unless it's Largo pd. You guys are good.

[D]

Until he gets pulled over.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Line shirt comes on.

[B]

Yeah. He's like, man, you know Copville.

[D]

No.

[B]

Jimmy's a great dude. He does not dislike. I think he was just having a moment there.

[E]

I, I, I've got some problems with certain agencies, just like pretty much everybody in this room.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

And I. Here's my issue. You cannot hold cops responsible for bad actions if you have zero to no, I mean, like bad to no training. You trained them poorly, they reacted poorly in real world. So whose fault is that?

[B]

Yeah, we got a lot of that to break down today too. By the way, don't forget, please subscribe to the patreon. We appreciate you guys being in the Patreon. We do giveaways. We just dropped a new patreon video or.

[C]

Oh, wait, it's probably still uploading.

[B]

Still uploading. But please join. Give us some love. We interact in there. And this Thursday, Thursdays for the boys. We have Sergeant Major Bass, formerly of the 25th ID and 82nd Airborne Combat Vet that Jimmy knows very well.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

So he will be the guest this Thursday night. Sergeant major Bass from the United States army.

[E]

So he was my first sergeant.

[B]

He wasn't delta though, was he?

[E]

No, no, just a regular. Just a regular one guy.

[B]

Just a guy, right?

[E]

Just. Just.

[C]

No, there's.

[E]

I mean, he's so. I mean, like, I. I can do my impression of sar. Major bat or first armed Bass when.

[B]

I do it in front of him.

[E]

I. I will. I will.

[C]

I will do it at parade rest.

[E]

I will do it at parade. With all due respect, I won't even do that because we're both out now. What are you gonna do?

[C]

Some reflections on this. Last week. So we. I. I caught a lot of heat for. And I will stand by it. I still like my whole adult life until last Monday. Did not know that Germany had a military.

[B]

Yeah, you caught hell.

[C]

Oh, my God. They were like, this is why you cancel the show is because Tyler didn't know that.

[E]

We gotta get a German army guy.

[B]

Can we find one?

[C]

A German army guy. There's a guy in the Ukraine that was a u. S. Marine that he's fighting over in Ukraine, but he says because of he. He can't do it. He's like, but there's a Ukrainian soldier that he's friends with that speaks English. That would come on remotely.

[E]

That would be.

[B]

We gotta work. That's our next trick, Getting a remote.

[C]

No, no, we have one kink we gotta work out.

[E]

We got. We have VTC problems.

[B]

I can't imagine that build up.

[C]

What.

[B]

Trying to make sure that's working before the show starts.

[C]

It's just. It's. It's one little tiny detail that we could do it without it. But it's for the guests. But once we have remote capabilities. Game over, dude.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's it. But game over.

[C]

No, it's game over labor. We win.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

More like we win, not game over. Because when I hear game over, I think of Bill Paxton. Game over, man.

[C]

No.

[E]

On a Cincinnati, Ronnie.

[C]

So the only other thing is, like the fat Soldiers kind of. I mean, we. We filmed that on Thursday night, and then I cut it, what, Saturday into a real. But I think by the time it was cut, it was already being worked on by Texas National Guard or Texas military. Jimmy's gonna fill us in. But essentially the fat. The fat soldiers got pulled from.

[E]

Well, it. So I mean, 200 of them. I mean. And by the way, okay, so just so that I don't get slayed on October 13, 2025 at 11:12am this is the best news I have, you fuckers. So they pulled 200. 200 National Guard members were sent to Illinois, and they pulled a few of them for. What is it. What is it called here? They released a message, man. So they had this photo. I sent it to you in the email. You want to pull that photo up real quick? I mean, this is what we were getting slayed for. Look at these freaking guys.

[B]

Oh, sure.

[E]

I'm gonna have to.

[C]

Yeah, give you. Give Louis a second. It's. Yeah, yeah, he's got. Put it up.

[E]

But so. So they were not in compliance. That was the only statement that was said there. Nobody said what the compliance was. The compliance might have been the fact that the zippers were holding on for fucking dear life. But regardless, I mean, just think about this as like an optics. You know, like, at what point do you go, hey, man, we've got three or four individuals and the Secretary of War, Defense, whatever he's calling himself.

[C]

Is the camera on Jimmy? Poor Lewis.

[E]

Poor Lewis is over there freaking multitasking in the weeds.

[B]

We were in the weeds.

[E]

Yeah. And I mean, like, good God in heaven, man. Like the Secretary of Defense just talked about, like, hey, we. We got standards for physical fitness. I'm tired of seeing fat troops. First thing that happens is Texas National Guard.

[C]

I mean, that was bad timing.

[E]

That was.

[C]

I really don't think anybody would have batted. And I had Pete Hegseth not said, we're not going to have this anymore. And that's what I said. I said, you know, if you're. If. I mean, you're the Secretary of War. That's his new. That's his title, right?

[E]

Yeah, that's what he's calling.

[C]

And so you. You. Your Secretary of War says that your boss of bosses underneath the President, and then you, as a sergeant major or a commander, send those guys into conus, into hot news areas where there's cameras everywhere. Yeah, like, what do you think was gonna happen?

[E]

I mean, I mean, look at. I mean, look at these guys are. They're Bigger. The duffel bags look tiny compared to them. And I mean, like, I mean, okay, maybe I was a stick when I was in, but Jesus Christ.

[C]

Yeah, we like to get.

[B]

Everybody's carrying their gun differently.

[C]

I mean, just those guys haven't shot a rifle probably in 10 years.

[E]

And, and you know, according to Kevin from guys on the ground, I mean, that's a squared away unit, the Texas National Guard. But you know, look, man, you can be a squared away unit and have substandard troops and, you know, I had people tell me, well, the National Guard deploys way more than everybody else. And it's like, well, it doesn't fucking show. And your deployment cycle doesn't tell me how good you are. Your enforcement of the standards is. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, it's part of the NCO creed, for God's sake.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

People are asking about the shirt.

[C]

Counterculture Inc. Threads.com. make sure you use promo code antihero. You'll save 15% on your purchase. Lots of good sales in there. You got the silkies that are on sale, I think for 20 bucks to end summer. To start summer. Our zip up hoodies are 25. Pullover hoodies are 20. So we got a lot of sales going on in that shift from summer to fall. So go check it out. Grab yourself an anti hero shirt.

[B]

Don't forget, we got the call in.

[E]

I was gonna. I was just about to call you to put it.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, let me, let me post that. What's the number?

[B]

Hold on. Every time you ask me that, I gotta text myself. So I know the number. We're, we're here.

[E]

We just need to pin it at the very beginning.

[C]

Yeah, but other than that, I think that's, that's the only. I mean, I call he. I'm just starting to post like, you know, people calling me stupid. But then I say, God, he's so stupid.

[B]

7727-7221-7217-5453.

[C]

And we've also had a lot of people messaged us. And I mean, I'm saying a lot. It's, it's because it's obviously when people voice themselves, they're always the silent something like. And I think that we've just had a handful of people reach out to us and say, hey, listen, I, I like your show. I'm not gonna lie. I fucking hated the breakup. I. When Brent left, I was, I was, I was super mad. People have been apologizing for what they said and essentially it's like, dude, I. I knew this was gonna. It's like your kids hating you when you get divorced. Like, hey, they're gonna be mad at somebody. One of the parents is gonna win that battle. And then it takes a little bit of time. Then they go, I don't hate you, Dad. I was just mad at you.

[B]

Yeah. What I've noticed is obviously different platform, cop Bill Cops. But a lot of the cops now are saying, hey, you got this other platform now to help push the stuff we're talking about with, like, what's going on at Lance and administration. So all we did was, you know, the audience kind of flips, but the message is the same.

[C]

Never change. It never, never changed. So it's supporting the veteran community.

[B]

Firemen, we really. You know what? Firemen, that's a big thing we keep talking about, like, they're first responders with everybody. Like, we got it. We want to get them. So you have a fireman, somebody wants to come on, like, get that part of the.

[C]

And. And we've let. That's why I tell Jimmy, you need to know we still have the veteran community in this podcast. That's why I like, Jimmy. You're the. You're the fucking their face, dude. I mean, we're veterans, but I think our. Naturally, the cop stuff just kind of takes over because we were cops after veteran.

[E]

Yeah. And I mean, like, right now, my. My buddy Danny Cortez from, you know, he was my song here in Iraq. He's in the FDNY right now. And I told. I was texting today. Like, Danny, he's listening right now. Danny, get your ass over here. It's like, man, we haven't seen each other in so long. I can't just come on a podcast.

[C]

Yeah. Call in and say, explain to me how firefighters aren't second responders. I'd love to hear that now. I'd love to hear the argument.

[B]

I'm open if you're gonna call in or text. Like, give me a text first. Kind of give me an idea what it is. And, you know, you gotta get to that punchline if you're gonna tell us this story.

[C]

I also. Yeah. And I also want. If you're gonna. I want you to be critical of us, too. Like, there was a guy, man, I'll never find it, but he. I mean, he. He was very open and honest. You know, he had. He had his issues. His. His handle is stu S T U lightning bolts. And I was like, man, you need to call in with that stuff. You know, we'll Debate, we'll talk.

[B]

Yeah, and I've been. I kind of been saying that, too, on my show. Is arguing in the comments. Is it just. I tell you over and over, I don't read your comment. You don't read my comment. All you write is the next thing you think of. You don't even read what the other person wrote. But if we can look at each other and have a dialogue now, if you're just going to scream and yell and people think that's what I'm going to do. No, if I say, hey, you can be on Wednesday, I'll send you the link. You want to come on and debate something, let's debate it. But, you know, Googling my name and then, you know, saying, I got demoted, or I've been, you know, ticked up. That stuff that's five, six years old that I've already addressed on 30 podcasts. And it's always that, I got you.

[C]

That's going to be one of the shirts. Google me.

[B]

Yeah, it's like. It's that. It's the gotcha moment. When I uncovered the dude that was scamming everybody out of money. The first message was, oh, you like throwing old men on the ground? And then it's like, okay, you know, and then it's like, oh, you've been demoted. Okay, which. Which 500 episodes of podcasts you want me to point you to. To talk about that talking shit, we can do that. But if you want to have a general, real conversation about what our topics are, what we're saying, by all means, come on. Come on, get on the. Get on a show, get on live and say it. Because nobody's reading those comments. You and the person you're arguing with are reading them back and forth. Everybody else, like, look at these morons arguing. And they're on to the next. They're on the Cincinnati. They're on the next topic, and it's talk. Let's have a healthy debate.

[E]

All right.

[C]

Anything else from those. Those soldiers, Texas soldiers being pulled from the line.

[E]

I mean, Task and purpose just ran it down. I mean, all they said was that, like, hey, some guys were pulled, but they didn't say why. Like, oh, they just didn't. You know, there were some standards issues. Like, jesus, I wonder what the fucking standard was? And they said, here's the best part is they said a small group were pulled. It's like, dude, they weren't that small. They filled up the big. They filled up the picture.

[C]

Yeah. Another thing we brought up, and I think there's a. There's a photo. So Jimmy recently sent me an article where they were people, I don't know if who they were getting orders from, but essentially they were shining lasers at choppers in ice operations, which we all know being a cop world, that I think it's a felony.

[E]

It's a federal crime.

[C]

It's a. You know, you can't shine as a police helicopter. You cannot shine.

[E]

You can't shine it at an aircraft, period. Because it's the faa, right? So, I mean, especially, I mean, just that alone. I mean, I'm not a cop, but like shining lasers, I mean, that's, you know, hazard to airmen, you know, people can crash. Yeah, you die, you know, but so the, this comes from. So this is where the orders are coming from. It's, it's. I don't. I can give you the website. I just don't want to shout these fuckers out. So basically. No, it's. It's the, it's the antifa website that.

[B]

Not only does Jimmy hate cops, he's on the website.

[E]

I just said I didn't want to shout them out. You did.

[B]

Well, you.

[C]

In order to know where the, where the order came from. I know for a fact from experience that Antifa has a very, very well connected email system at best. At best. And they can, they can, especially online, they can oversaturate and, and kind of over, like, what would you call it? Oversaturate and like really quickly take over something and they can shut pages down. They can kind of like, like I said, I went through it personally. They have orders that they follow when it comes down, hit this website or hit this Instagram or, or send this flyer out. Now the thing is, physical rallies is a different story. Yeah, they were talking mad shit when I went through mine. I did my event anyway. I was like, let's see if they show up. Not one antifa person showed up.

[E]

It was all to come out of the basement, man.

[C]

Yeah, they. Antifa isn't going to do shit physically, but they will over saturate anything online.

[E]

Yeah. So I mean, and here they have done some of this stuff and some of the stuff that they're doing.

[C]

Louis, do you have the image?

[E]

Yes. Yeah. So look at this helicopter, man. This helicopter is getting lit the fuck up. And I mean, I looked at it again.

[C]

So that's the flyer, right?

[E]

Yeah, so that's the flyer, right? It's on the website, right? They. They're posting it all over the city. And I mean, like terrorism, dude. It is absolutely terrorism.

[C]

Dude, aren't they. Aren't they determined domestic terrorists like they should.

[B]

That's like.

[C]

They won't.

[E]

I mean. Well, then go to the second picture, Louis. I mean, look, they've already done this once.

[C]

What's the second picture?

[E]

Look at, look at this. Look at this. Blackhawk, dude.

[F]

Oh, man.

[C]

So that's a million lasers on it.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Wow. I don't know who can see what at what time. I know Lewis is working like triple time back there. So when it. When you're moving it around, is it visible to everybody?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Okay, cool. As long as they can see it. So that's like a hundred lasers on a helicopter. Yeah. That has to have been at an antifa rally.

[E]

Yeah. So that's probably an aircraft that's going over one of the, you know, riots. Let's just call them what they are. They're not protests. These are riots.

[C]

We need to learn how to dump OC like they do water on forest. Just dump OC on AN.

[E]

Jesus Christ.

[B]

I'm still with the A10.

[E]

I mean, I don't. I don't know about all that.

[B]

Here's where force. The reason I say force is needed.

[C]

All right, you can take the picture.

[B]

Off in that scenario is if that thing crashes due to those lasers. You're putting thousands and thousands of people saw a helicopter. Yeah. And if that thing goes into a.

[E]

Residential neighborhood, I mean, well, and you're.

[B]

Putting the pilots at 100 story building could crumble, man, if that jet fuel catches on fire.

[E]

I mean, I mean, the good thing about Blackhawks, I mean, that's a Blackhawk. But, you know, if it does crash and it lands belly down, you know, all the fuel lines are going to snap and it's going to shut itself off. And I mean, we had a movie about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

So.

[B]

Well, I mean, crashing into a city. Yeah.

[E]

I mean, can you imagine, like, hey, that thing goes down and now, I mean, cops are already not responding and to. I mean, so now we have a helicopter down. We've literally got it. Blackhawk down in the middle of Chicago.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, all that technology is a problem.

[C]

The cell phone, that would be like Blackhawk.

[E]

It would be exactly like Black.

[C]

You have to. You guys would hand off the savages. We could say that now. Or not. I commented on one of my buddies posts about how in Orange County, Florida, in the Orlando area, there was a shooting at a basketball court. And guess who died? A little boy. And he posted it, and he's a cop. And I posted, it's nice to Be able to call these people savages. It is what it is. And not have to worry about getting in trouble. Yeah, it really got quiet, you know?

[E]

I mean, all of us, I think all of us are just spinning the whole idea.

[B]

Like, like I keep. Let's, let's. Let's get the Chicago roundup the weekend. Oh, yeah, weekend in Chicago. We had.

[C]

Apparently our Philly show is not in a nice area.

[B]

Nah, that North Philly's not terrible.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

I mean, you ain't concealed carrying there, homeboy.

[C]

No, yeah, yeah.

[E]

I mean, but last week in Chicago.

[B]

It was a very slow week.

[C]

How many? Only.

[B]

Only seven shot and killed.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[B]

24 wounded and nine total homicides. So two regular homicides, seven shooting homicides, and a total of three. 31 people shot last week.

[C]

Just. Last week.

[B]

Just.

[C]

All right, good analytics.

[B]

So.

[E]

So let's. I mean, let's walk this out. Right? We already saw that. The, The. Was it the watch commander from the chief of police, whatever the, the superintendent, whatever he calls himself, basically said, hey, don't respond. Don't go help these guys that are in trouble. Now a Blackhawk crashes and you're. What are we doing? 10th Mountain ain't coming to rescue you now, boom boy. You're on your own. You know, you're gonna be, you know, Mike Durant. We won't leave you behind in freaking Chicago. Yeah.

[C]

I mean, and do you think that, like, when Covet hit, they were trying to blame. Like, you know, everybody was blaming deaths on Covid? They're like, oh, it was a COVID death. Do you think they tried blaming some of the murder rate on Covid so the stats would go down? Because I always think of the Uniform Crime Report or FBI, whatever it is, where they would be like, oh, that's not a burglary. That's a theft.

[B]

And he got shot 11 times. But he had Covid, so co. There was a lot of those. There was a lot. How do you. Lance, as a, as an upper commander in an agency, how do you feel like, obviously we're in a Republican area, but can you imagine having to give an order to say, don't help other agencies or don't help other police.

[C]

Other cops?

[B]

How do you feel about that?

[D]

That is, to me, that's crazy to even think that you're not going to help out your fellow. Right. And we're all, we're all first supporters, but to think you're not going to help out.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Even just a regular citizen. I mean. But now you're not even going to help out your own brothers and sisters in blue. To me. That's crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And, and what's even crazier is nothing's happening. It's like, yep, okay.

[E]

Yep, he did that.

[D]

No big deal.

[B]

Yeah. And that's, that's very. You say nothing happened. That's very accurate because all these viral videos go crazy where they take five seconds of a cops interaction. Let's say the Jacksonville ones or whatever. Good, better, indifferent. It's immediately like everything's a problem. But you have an agency that tells an entire city of cops to not go help a group of cops under attack. And it's just like, whatever.

[D]

And I'm, I'm curious. Did, did some. No. Did some cops go over there and help out now? Are they, Are they gonna be held? Yeah.

[C]

Oh, more updates on that.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So that's what I'm curious about. I haven't.

[C]

Oh, yes, I'm glad we brought that up because there is an update. I guess the FOP held a note, was like voted no confidence. No confidence in the. So there's. Okay, so Chicago also, they have chiefs of divisions. So the patrol chief is who made the call. But I guess they have a superintendent in Chicago that's the chief.

[B]

And that's. It's. The city of Chicago's fraternal police issued a no confidence vote for the supervisor who told the officers not to respond to the shooting. Now that's cool. That's kind of like saying we don't support him, but he's still supported by the administration. So there's really just, you know, there's sheriffs all over Florida that are getting in chiefs that are getting votes and no confidence. And it doesn't mean they're going anywhere. It just shows. That's because the politics. I always said that the agency, the support or non support of a sheriff is not going to sway an election by his guys. Even if they hate him, it's not going to get him out. And even if they love him, it's not going to keep them in. It's just too small of a group. So for the FOP to go, hey, we don't support this guy. But. But Chicago, the city hires these people, hires these terrible people and these terrible leaders. So even though you say, hey, we don't support them, it'll catch our headlines, we'll talk about it. They're not going to change anything. No.

[C]

The only, the only unions that have any poll are the unions in the Northeast, I think are the only.

[B]

There's few left. They're just there's no power left, man. The politicians control all that stuff now.

[E]

Well, I mean, that sort of, again, makes us same argument that I've been making, which is that, you know, the PD has become just the muscle of corrupt politicians. And what do we do about that? Deputy Chief, I.

[C]

Well, I wanted to ask your opinion on this. So answer that question and then I want to ask you something.

[D]

No, absolutely. Because, you know, like, if you followed my story at all. For 15 months, I've been going to city council. They don't care about me. The mayor supports them because the chief protects the mayor. He's had incidents in my city where he's protected. Look at Melbourne Police Department right next door. My sister city where Long Island. Oz just came in because the mayor had an incident with his deceased brother's family outside of the jurisdiction. Yet Melbourne officers respond out there. Right, and then it's on video, too.

[B]

We've talked about that.

[D]

Yeah. And then when he. When he goes to the council meeting to sit there and confront the mayor, the mayor uses his Gestapo to remove him from the council meeting. And so that. And that's what. You're absolutely correct, Jimmy, that these chiefs are loyal to their politicians and their city managers. That's it.

[E]

But that's not what it says on the side of your cruiser.

[D]

Not at all.

[C]

Okay, so here's what I want to ask you, Lance. I try to explain this all the time to people that are. Are seeing police work in today's times the way. And I always wanted to be a cop, I just never knew how to explain it to people. Is that law enforcement officers or deputy sheriffs or whatever, they enforce social contract theory, which means that they are essentially supposed to be elected extensions of elected personnel by the people. So if they. If the people elect a mayor, the mayor appoints a chief, the chief hires a cop. That cop, by through a long, like, pipeline, is essentially from an elected official. So when you look at it like that, I believe that the police are here to enforce social contract theory. I'm not here to enforce what the government says. Because if you go and you look outside and your sheds broken and you see a guy walking away with your lawnmower, right? You're just an average citizen. If you go tune that dude up, guess who's also gonna go to jail, right? Maybe. Possibly. So you can't do that as a citizen, Jimmy. You can't take the law into your own hands. God forbid something happened to your family. And you want to you trust that the police are going to enforce almost like, tribal mindset. Like, if we were all to get together right now, all. All eight of us, and we decided to start a tribe, we would have unspoken rules that you cannot do in that tribe, and then we would have to have some kind of outside or person inside the tribe that has been given authority to enforce. Social contract theory, which means that it's a contract we all live by in order to live in a healthy environment. So that's what I always say, is that the police are an extension of the people. We represent the people. We work for the people. We do not work for the government. The government just pays us because you need it. Right? Just like the roads, the guys making the roads that you need roads to drive on. Somebody's got to pay for it. Taxes pay for it. Therefore, the government has to, like, orchestrate it and has to pay them. But at the end of the day, they're doing the roads for you.

[D]

Yeah, no, and I think so. Like, Palm Bay is not. It's not a. It's not Mayor Strong, so it's city council, but you actually work for the city manager who hires the police in chief. So. But as far as the social contracts. Yeah, I get that. I think where the. I think where the lines get skewed is when you break that social contract as the enforcer, right? When the police department takes their. And they go above and beyond what they're supposed to do, or they violate their own laws or their own. Or what the people expect. And, you know, I think that's where. That's where the problems lie. And then that's where you start losing trust in the very people that are supposed to protect you. So that's like if your shit gets broken into and the police come out and you as the victim are all of a sudden laying on the ground in handcuffs, you know, being smacked off the face, you're not calling the police anymore, and you've lost all accountability in that social contract. And I think that's where. I think that's what is hurting law enforcement right now.

[E]

Well, it's not just hurting law enforcement. It's hurting who is going to be the future of law enforcement. You're not going to get the kind of people that you want.

[B]

And I couldn't agree more. And here's what we've done with law enforcement. We've made it too cute. The TikTok video. The TikTok videos and all those specialty units we need. I get it. Community affairs and. And all those. But we got away from. What were police here for? To Enforce the law.

[C]

Law.

[B]

It wasn't cute, it wasn't fun. It was, you know, go back to the western days. A guy's got a wanted poster, you're getting in shootouts, trying to pick these guys up. You know, 100, 150 years ago, that was what law enforcement was designed to do. When we brought politics and cuteness and all these other programs in, it changed the scope of law enforcement.

[C]

We also allowed this, the community to see how their sausage was made.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If you're not, you're never going to eat McDonald's again. I promise you. If you see how your chicken and.

[B]

Your, your, your hamburgers, some things are better off just letting.

[C]

And there's also always going to be human error. They are not robots. That's why there's not cyborgs walking around and voicing the law, because it's a human being behind a badge. So yes, when you. Let's look at the 70s, I don't want to date you, but when did you start. I know it was in the 70s, but you started law enforcement when? The 90s.

[D]

99.

[C]

99. So let's look at the 70s where that, that's just how they did it. You go into the 90s where you, you're, you're policing high crime areas and areas where people don't like you, you have to be a lot more aggressive. It was aggressiveness that went unchecked for sure, but it's just different. And so now we take away all of the aggressiveness and now it's like it wasn't like we didn't try to fine tune it, we just went, whoa, that policing is really bad. Which maybe it was. So we just took it all out.

[B]

We did. But here's the other thing is when you watch athletes and everybody always cops, whenever they want money or whatever, anything, they always talk about athletes. What do athletes do? They train for one thing, every single day, even in the off season. What do they do? They train to be a better baseball player, better football player. They train the craft cops. We've diluted it within the building because you have 900 different units of all these feel good. But if you just train cops to be cops. If you took a group of cops and said we're going to let these guys do this job and this is all they're going to do. They're going to train, shoot be they there. You could make an agency and start from the ground up and reform policing. Back to don't. I'm just talking about bullies beating people up in cages. I'm just talking about doing just the job. That's it. None of this other fluffy stuff and feeling good. Hire somebody else to go to McDonald's and have coffee with people and they can tell everybody how great the cops are. Hire somebody else to do all those things. These, you know, these mental health people that follow cops, run. Yes, there's a time for mental health and all that stuff. But if cops were trained in just the job, do your job. It sounds so stupid when I say it, because people are like, oh, they're human beings. We are. But why are we worried about 900 different tasks? When we go, I want this group of guys to go around and police the law. I want to do it right. I'm not talking about, again, not beating people up. But they're so good with the constitution. They're so good and they're so trained in everything that all of a sudden everybody goes, well, we're not really paying attention to the cops because they're pretty much doing everything right. They're very well trained. They're handling everything accordingly. There's no story here. That's what I think the problem is. There's so many bad cops and untrained cops that you see story after story after story. But it's important to go coffee shop with a cop. Let's walk around with the community.

[C]

And I do.

[B]

I agree with that wholeheartedly. Yeah. But that is, to me, a lot of those agencies and places fluff up the department. As if you should trust us because we go shopping with you. But every cop we have is a piece of shit or not trained or the hiring. Yeah.

[C]

People get. They think and they think that I'm gonna go have coffee with people all day, every day. I'm never gonna have to pull this gun. I'm never gonna get punched in the face. I'm never gonna have somebody break away and go like this to me, like, that's never gonna happen. Because that's all I see on Facebook.

[B]

Posted a picture of a lady other day at a shopping with a cop. She had a bag with her items in it on her gun.

[E]

Yeah, I saw on her gun.

[B]

She's got the bag. Her gun is the holder for her bag.

[E]

Her Glock 7.

[B]

An officer on duty standing in the middle. She's got her arms crossed. She's standing in the middle of a business and the bag is hanging from her gun like it's a decorate. And I use that old. It's a decoration from that old YouTube clip video.

[D]

Let's.

[E]

I Mean, but let's not just think.

[B]

About the mindset to even get to that point that think that's okay.

[E]

But let's. I mean, let's not bury it too far. Politics has been invested in law enforcement since the shootout at the OK Corral. If you go look at any of that stuff that happened leading up to and after the Gunfight at the O.K. corral, Wyatt Earp was on one hand going, you know, getting slayed by the sheriff and the judges and everybody else. And the. The local people that actually wanted him to go have his gunfight, they were.

[C]

Wyatt Earp was the sheriff.

[E]

No, Johnny Behan was the sheriff. He was. It was Wyatt's brother Virgil that was the town marshal, and he deputized his crazy. No, his brother was not crazy. Wyatt Earp had never been in a gunfight. He was a. Basically a bouncer at a biker bar in Kansas. I mean, that's what it was. I mean, I can go deep on the history on that, and I don't know if we have time, but, like, he had never been in a gunfight before that.

[B]

Well, back. I mean, obviously you had to start somewhere. So I get back then, but now with what is there, 5 million training this company, those initials that. I mean, there's no reason not to be a good cop.

[C]

Now, here's a goal, right? A goal. So I get it. We have to do shop for a cop at Christmas. If you're the agency that's not taking poor kids to go to Walmart to get Christmas stuff, you're wrong. I just. You don't want to be the agency that's not doing that. Unless you're so small and so busy, then you have to prioritize. Prioritize fighting crime before that, sure. But shopping with a cop, I feel like is so much us begging people to see it. It needs to shift back to at. People want to see it in a way that, like, all right, let's say you're a pro athlete, right? We're using the pro athletes. Mike, I'm. I'm sick or I'm in the hospital or whatever. Like, I'm. I want you to come to my. I want you to come to my door with a bag full of gifts in your jersey and say, like, I care about you. I care about the community. We need to get back to that rather than begging the community to forgive us. And so that's why we're doing this. And I want people to want it.

[B]

That's two parts. One, yes. Two. That means we don't pander anymore. Anymore. We just do our job, but we do it right. So the community goes, hey, that guy's doing his job. Right? It's not always pretty. Like, law enforcement is very violent, but if it's done correctly and we don't do some of the things like you're pointing out and like punching ladies in the face and, and making these silly arrests that make it all over the news, it's like, I see where the public has a complaint with some of the stuff we see on tv. But my point is, if we're trained very well, and that's all we do is worry about community and, and the statutes and policing, it doesn't mean that it's like a, like North Korea. It just means we have a bunch of well trained, in shape, squared away people walking around that everybody can go, okay, I can trust that guy or I can. And there's always gonna be a bad interaction and the cops are crooked or this because you don't want to go to jail. Just like when your mom and dad yell at you and you go in your room and hope they die, you're like, but I hope that, you know, mom gets driver by car tonight because she took my Game Boy away or whatever. We all think that, but they're saying it on that.

[C]

What's your take on it?

[D]

Yeah, I think what happens, and I think you hit it on the head. One, we have bad hiring practices, right? So that leads to bad policing. Two, you don't train them and so then you have all these bad encounters. And then the police department comes into a propaganda machine. It's going to spend so much time letting, pretending or trying to convince you that we're good because of all the other things that are going on. And you talked about the Shop of the Cop and all that stuff, but yeah, but look how much money and stuff we spend just on that one day. Because Palm Bay does it as well. But then law enforcement, we can't say we messed up, that we did bad. We need to do better. And so when those videos do come out, no chief ever comes out and says, unless they're firing the guy, hey man, we screwed that up. We'll get this, we'll try to get it right next time and try to, and try to tell the people, hey, we are human because we do make mistakes. And I say that all the time. Cops are human. Their emotions take place. You know, yeah, they're trained for these high encounters and what citizens are not, you know, citizens aren't trained to have their windows Smashed out and chased their house, their doors kicked in, punched in the face while they're handcuffed. But yes, citizens aren't trained, but cops are. And then, but when our training fails or our lack of training, then, then the machine has to do so much propaganda to try to convince their citizens for the politicians because. Right. It all comes back to the politicians. So I think Jimmy nails that one. But sometimes you just say, hey, we messed up.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And then when you, when you see that an agency is continually screwing up, you got to do a leadership change that's from an outside chief. And that's the same thing is we hire chiefs from the inside over and over and over. They, they have friends, they have buddies, and there's no change. That culture just, just gets developed. But yeah, officers, I think when they, when they sign up, they just want to do their job. They want to go out there and, and be police. But then they find out it's not like that at all. It's a completely different world. You know, for the first day that you're there, you're not. You're right. I thought I was just gonna be, you know, helping old ladies across the street and that's not happening. I'm having arrest people.

[B]

I'm gonna throw myself on the bus real quick.

[C]

We're at audio. Louis, did anything change in the last. When the audio start time?

[E]

No, I mean it's been like that from the beginning. I'm looking at the chat, everybody's saying the same thing. We're out of sync, so.

[B]

All right, let me go.

[E]

Just a latency. Just a latency, brother.

[B]

Probably it's not you.

[E]

Yeah, it's. I mean, poor kids doing the best he can. Let us know if we're out of sync again.

[B]

Oh, hello. Because I change it just now.

[E]

Okay, cool. I mean, so if I.

[D]

Hold on.

[C]

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[B]

It's good. So whatever he did, he needs to remember it. All right, because everybody's. But back to what we're saying about discipline and politics. I'm going to lead you with. The sheriff wrote about my discipline that he sent to the news. As sheriff, it's my job to set parameters on what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior. By holding our deputies accountable, we set the lines and boundaries. In this case, the actions seen on body camera unacceptable and inconsistent with our policies, procedures and mission. Here we go. Therefore, discipline was necessary to correct the behavior and send a message to the other deputies that this would not be tolerated. Yes.

[C]

Sacrificial.

[B]

Yeah, so. So what they did was I. I gave that entire file to many people, Carl Anderson being one of them, independently let them review it. The highest discipline I heard out of anybody was maybe an eight hour suspension. And I'll admit that I handled things wrong. Tactically. I did a lot of things wrong. But as far as discipline, the job of discipline is not to set an example for the rest of the agency. The job is to correct that deputy's behavior and then continue to, you know, train. I was ordered mandatory retraining in the two years I stayed. Never was, never was retrained because they had so much wrong with it, but they never offered any retraining. My point being is that discipline is not supposed to be like everybody in this room. See what happened to him? Off with his head. This will happen to you.

[C]

Scare tactic.

[B]

Yeah, that's what it was. And again, I released it went on. You know, I always gave something.

[C]

It's like a bug's life.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

He's like, there's a 10 million ants and one ant can't do it.

[B]

But if they are, if it was that bad, like, you know when something's really bad, you see a video and you go, oh God, that's bad. When you see a video and guys are like, I've seen worse. I've seen. That was a problem. When they started showing it to the other people in the agency. They got a lot of. I saw you guys do that. You administrators have done far worse to people.

[C]

Oh, back in the day. Yeah. So.

[B]

And I didn't have to say it. So it was like. But that is, that's a statement from a coward that doesn't really, doesn't really pay attention either. Because.

[C]

And also, let's look at things. Let's talk about things that look bad. Right. But we don't know the entire backstory. Like the dude that got in Jacksonville that got punched for not getting out of the car. You remember that, Mike?

[E]

Yes.

[C]

So there was a lot more to that story. A, it had already been cleared by the department. It had been cleared by everybody. So that came out later. Now is it, is it okay to talk about whether or not it was good policing? Sure. But that was spun like it was brand new.

[B]

Yes, they had already cleared it. Yeah, I don't think they had seen. They only saw the body cam though. So they didn't have the video, the civilians video yet. Doesn't really change much. I mean it still happened maybe a little different angles, but.

[C]

But what I'm going at is that they wanted to retry. Everybody wanted this cop held accountable. He was already held accountable.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

By the standards that goes.

[B]

If you go into like Greg, Tony down in Broward. I did an episode with Greg Lacera that made national news where they tried to spin it. Ben Crump came down there and they tried to say they were smashing this black kid's head in the ground. And it was a big fight. Outside of a business. Krikovich and Lucera respond. Street crimes. They don't have any backup. Pepper Surrey, a crowd. Greg Toney has an 11 man use of force board that are civilians and cops. Yeah, the board cleared both guys completely free and clear. Ben Crump shows up, one gets fired and arrested and one sits on admin that for three years.

[C]

That, and that's what me and Mike are going to start doing. When you guys, when you guys see me and Mike outside with signs like it's WWE outside, you know, and, and I'm sure, Lance, that's what you're already doing is I want to show up and bring attention to the reason why I want to talk to somebody who can explain why all of a sudden now these guys who were cleared are now not only back under the spotlight because of fear tactics and kneeling to the mob, but they're fired all of a sudden now. Oh, now they're fired. So we change our standards overnight because Ben Crump comes in.

[B]

Yeah, that's what they did. The rest of the guy fired him.

[C]

Or did they fire him? And I guarantee you this guy will sue.

[B]

No, he did.

[C]

Yeah, he'll sue and get Cricket all.

[B]

His money back, plus overtime, plus his job back.

[C]

But they have money set aside for that. As an Abigail, I want to talk to you about that. Lawsuits, there's always room for lawsuits, but they're not meant for your guys to sue you to be when you're fired wrongfully. But I know there's sheriffs that are like, get rid of him. We'll just fucking. We'll deal with the lawsuit. We'll pay out in two years. But he's gone, and he's a problem for me. And he criticized me and he critiques me.

[D]

He's gone now, I'll tell you. And. And that does happen, right? So there's things that are justified, and some will come in and look at him and be like, well, now they're getting been crumbs in town. We got to take a look at this. But I know, remember I was admin. I was a deputy chief. So I sat at the table and we had some incidents to come in, and we would all be like, okay, man, we. I think we can survive this one.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And even though. But even though when we look at them, we're like, nah, this isn't right. This is the third instant this guy's had. You know, we talked to like, chief and I talked to this one guy out in the parking lot, and after, he'd just pummeled some guy's face, and Chief asked him, hey, what happened? He's like, well, I dealt with this guy before, and he pissed me off. The next thing you know, it's a UFC mountain and he's pummeling the dude's face, and that's a problem.

[C]

And the report says, this isn't 1997, son.

[D]

And the report says, well, he broke away and he was tased. And when he fell on his. When he fell on his face, his orbital socket was broken, but it didn't mention the swings to his face. But. And so. And so those could be the case where sometimes we. We. As admin, I've been there justify It. Hoping nobody ever comes across it. We forgot about the ring camera on that one, guys. And so. So I think. So you'll see that as well, where police departments will just say, trying to help out. Yeah, I mean, I.

[C]

Just not to fry their guys.

[D]

I mean, I just highlighted a report where. The same one you just talked about where the. The lady gets handcuffed, she gets struck in the face with a forearm and, you know, he's choking her. And our police department literally says in the use of force review the video. And these things never happened. So they don't even want to acknowledge it. Not to say it was justified.

[B]

Right.

[D]

If it happened. Okay. Having it justified, they're literally saying, even though it's on our own body camera, it didn't happen. And to me, it's crazy.

[C]

I want to get Jimmy. I want your take as a. As a. As a civilian that understands brotherhood, that understands. What I brought up was that, you know, hey, I've obviously these guys are cleared. Like, there's a. There's a. There's an instance of circumstance forces use. Cop is cleared by his agency. You know, whoever has cleared him, he's done. He's back on the road serving. It was investigated. Boom, bing, bong, boom. It's done. Right, Right. So then all of a sudden more people get involved and now they pull the cops back and they fire them. And it was just explained by Lance. And because I, I say this, I don't know if you're. If you're picking up the police.

[E]

Oh, I'm picking it up.

[C]

But like, they were. He was saying like, hey, maybe that agency was not trying to fry this cop, maybe handle it a little in house, but because they were trying to do that cop a solid and keep the brotherhood from the admin down now. And then it catches fire. Now you have to go back. So would you rather have admin just fry at the start? Would you rather have that?

[E]

So we don't. We don't live in a binary black and white world. Every situation is different and every situation needs to be treated as such. Now if you. And I'm going from, you know, what I dealt with in Iraq, like there were times that snipers were out doing stuff on the battlefield that was completely wrong. And. And when it came to light, it made us all look bad.

[C]

Were you one of the snipers?

[E]

No, I was not.

[C]

Okay. Gotta ask.

[E]

No. No, I was not. All right. I mean, it just. It happened. I mean, it happened all over the place.

[C]

Yeah, but.

[E]

But that does not necessarily mean that every Every cop or every sniper or every soldier is bad. We had. We have a serious problem in this country as a whole by. Because of the litigious nature of our society.

[C]

What did. What did Brass do about those snipers that were doing things that were out of line? So did they. Did they hem them up to dry publicly in front of.

[E]

So some of these guys. And you can go look at it, they were. They were basically baiting is what we call it.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

They were leaving. IED making material out in the street.

[C]

We call that. What do we call that? Entrapment. Entrapment.

[E]

So they were leaving. They were leaving. IED making material out in the street and shooting anybody that came to go pick it up.

[C]

Is that wrong?

[E]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Is that wrong?

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Because legally you're saying we could put drugs in Middle street and just start picking them off.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I mean, you knew what that was.

[B]

Fentanyl zombies.

[E]

So.

[C]

Right.

[E]

You guys are gonna kill me, man. I mean, that's. That's completely wrong. You don't know what that, that Iraqi citizen was doing. And so. Okay, that's a. That's a situation where it's like, okay, that's wrong. But then we. We have other situations after that because it's on the national news. People are talking about guys are going to freaking courts Marshall over it. As well they should. But now everybody who does this job is under a microscope from the brass. Yeah, that's not okay.

[B]

And that's what. I got a message here.

[C]

Lance just blew my mind the last. I don't know if you guys are tracking this, but I now I'm questioning whether or not it's. It's the worst thing in the world that it's pulled back and now it's looked at like, okay, we tried. We tried not to fry this guy. Whether or not that's wrong or not, we're all cops at heart. We don't want to see cops go down.

[B]

But it should never be based on what it looks like because it goes both ways.

[C]

So you're saying stand their ground.

[F]

Always.

[B]

Always.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Like. Like this. Discipline has to be corrected rather than punitive on a case by case basis to avoid exactly what you're talking about. This is a text message from a listener. Body cams are available to everyone to see. Unfortunately, it breeds a pack of mentality that non government workers want to govern. So it's like when you're watching your favorite football team, you're like, oh, they should have called a play action there. Instead of, you don't know all the mindset and the planning. When you see a video use of force is ugly. It's ugly, it's, it's not pretty. It could be completely justified where a cop walks into a room, has to take a hostage shot and blow somebody's brains out. It's not going to look nice. And oh, he should have shot. You're gonna. People say shot him in the leg. He should have shot him in the, should have shot the gun out of his hand. It's never going to look nice. But what it looks like on camera to the public should never drive the outcome of what the agency does as far as policy, procedure. And we, and Dom makes that argument all the time. A 6, 6, 300 pound dude. It starts attacking a, a 5, 100 pound female. She's pretty much justified to go to gun immediately to save her argument. But for the case of this, yeah, okay, let's say it's a male anyway. Male. He's immediately gone. I'm 5 11, 205 pounds. If that same sick, sick dude walks up to me, I'm probably, they're gonna look at me like you are you, you're, you're, you think you're a big bad dude. You should have fought him first. So it's going to look different if I just pull a gun out and shoot him or if this little small dude goes get back and back. Boom. And I can tell you that my sheriff actually watched. There's a video in California. Homeless guy walking up to a female deputy and she over and over he says, I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill you to trespass. She's like, sir, get back big dude. And she's a little female, sir, get back. She pulls out a gun and kills him. And completely justified. And our sheriff actually said the words. Well, I don't know if I could defend that. It looks really bad. It doesn't matter what it looks like. Either way you could do something that looks good on camera that could completely violate somebody's civil rights. Like these auditors. Looks like the auditor is an asshole, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But you take them to the ground and everybody like great, take his ass to jail. We didn't violate the law. You stand on the sidewalk legally. Use of force look great. But it was an illegal contact. The same way that if it looks bad doesn't make it illegal. And that's what these agency chief and these bosses go to is what looks bad to the public. Oh well, like, oh well. And, and, and I don't mean that like we get the way we, we get our free reign to beat people up. I mean that it may not look great. It's still by policy what was. Okay, you can't let what it looks like influence your discipline or your application of discipline to a police officer.

[C]

Either direction, keep it light. Someone says, Mike Tom talked Wyatt Earp into getting into law enforcement.

[E]

I, I was gonna make the, the argument that he was your fto, but damn.

[B]

I mean you went there that in my case that's what happened. They thought it was going to look bad. He was told it was going to be bad in the public. And when everybody saw it, they went, you went through six months of this and that's what, that's what it was. But it was pitched as if it. And that's what happens. They go, oh my God, look at this video this guy shot. This guy got to be guilty and I'm guilty of it. There was one not too long ago where it was the same thing. The guy went right to firearm. And it's justified. Well, it just doesn't look good, but it's justified. But the one the other day was not. We agree. The murder that we witnessed.

[E]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Is not.

[E]

So let's. If I, I mean, I have a question for you. I've never gotten the opportunity to sit across from somebody who sat in your position. What do you think about qualified immunity?

[D]

It's funny, I was just talking about the other day. I think you know, that's where you know. And I'll go back to chiefs, right. As a admin guy. This is why I believe that we do have some of the issues we have because the officers and chiefs believe that they're not getting held accountable. Taxpayers are held accountable. When you're, when your police department screw up, when they bad hire they, they, they negligent retain. In those kind of circumstances, it's not your chiefs or your officers that pay the price. It's your taxpayers. And I think qualifying immunity is crazy. I think the, you have to be responsible. And I do agree with Mike says there are things that just look plain ugly, but there's absolutely justified. And I'm 100%. I don't, I don't believe that that the way things look should, should be the precipitate or this is why we're going to discipline this guy because it just looks bad. No, absolutely not.

[E]

That's piss poor leadership.

[D]

100% and that's where leadership has to own it.

[B]

It's also what you said where if the chief doesn't like that guy. And he beats the brakes off. The chief goes, I can't stand that civilian. Who cares?

[D]

And that's the problem. Yes, that's the problem is that we're not consistent.

[B]

Correct.

[D]

Because what they did to you, Mike, they'll do that. Their best friend. They're not going to do anything to.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And it's not about that. So qualified immunity, that. That's a big problem in law enforcement because we can't hold individual officers accountable even when they are clearly violate policy. Violate law.

[E]

I want to. I want to postulate something to you.

[C]

You.

[E]

I'm gonna go on my soliloquy.

[C]

I don't even know what.

[E]

Postulate bad posture.

[D]

I don't have my phone to Google, so I'm gonna.

[E]

I'm gonna ask you a question.

[B]

There you go.

[E]

Okay. And give you a theory. You said you have money in the budget for your lawsuits, Correct?

[D]

We don't. I'm sure. I'm sure there are city attorneys do. Right there. I think the seat. I think the League of Cities, like Palm Bay is under the League of Cities. I just saw an article where they settled because the League of Cities said, you're literally not gonna be out any money. It's gonna be. Our insurance company's gonna be out. So. So I'm sure we do have money aside for that.

[E]

Okay, what about for trading?

[B]

Now?

[E]

I understand that, like, logistically speaking, it's really hard to train one day a week. You know, as a. You gotta put these guys on the road. We got it. We got stuff we've got to do. We can't. We can't just pull guys out and say, hey, this squad right here is going to train this or going to train that. But wouldn't it be better to train than to have lawsuits? If you have better training, won't you have less lawsuits? I mean, that does. Am I making sense here or am I talking out of my ass?

[D]

Nah, it makes tons of sense. And. And you look at. Look at some of the training budgets. So again, because I know Palm Bay, if you go to our. Our uniformed services, I think three or four years ago, been less than $2,000 training for. For 100 cops for the year. That's crazy. So we were able actually to get that up, get them that money pushed. Pushed up. But the problem is then we start using that money for conferences.

[B]

I think that's about the big thing. Yeah, the money gets moved around.

[D]

Training gets conferences, leadership.

[B]

We got a fly to California to go to this one.

[C]

And the accreditation I want to touch upon something you brought up because I don't, I think he touched upon an aspect of it. But you're as you're asking about qualified immunity and, and why cops need it. Right. And I want, I want to hear this because I've made this argument many times but I've never had somebody that's been prior admin kind of tell me how they think about it. The way I look at qualified immunity is that you, although I can be fired and although I can do prison time, you can't take the house from my family. Right. You can't as the victim or the victim's family can't come and go. Like let's say like, oh, I respond to your house, it's a home invasion, it's dark. And I'm an, I'm a new guy. I'm not, I'm not trained. And you know, I say this because it's happened just recently and you open the door to go, dude, I saw and I put five in your chest and you're dead. Right. That's human error. That's, that's going to happen. That's not because you had a robot that can't do data analytics within a millisecond and know that you're not the threat.

[E]

Right.

[C]

And that's going to happen forever in law.

[B]

I don't know that that's a training issue though.

[C]

Well, I mean you're getting away. Yeah, yeah. That's qualified immunity. Right.

[B]

His family shouldn't suffer because he made a stupid decision.

[C]

He, he, he is going to face from everything from a write up to incarceration. Right. That cop can face anything. But qualified immunity means that you can't come after his family for his house because of something that he did to you. Right. Where if it was, you know, a lawsuit in the civilian world you can come after anybody, all their assets and everything. I think that's the, that's what qualified me. It's not to get cops out of trouble and that's a big thing. When they're like I want to get rid of qualified immunity. Nobody is going to put their family at risk. Like hey, I'm, I'm at risk for I'm one bad call away from being jobless and also losing my house and, or I'm one bad call away from going to jail and then my family also loses their house. And so it's just going to be a judgment call. Hey, this profession isn't worth it. I'm putting myself out there every day for these lawsuits and typically 98% are all lawsuits where they sue the agency and the cop does not get sued even though there will be a lawsuit put on that cop. The agency has covered it, covers it all. But it's all under qualified immunity, correct?

[D]

Yep.

[E]

Okay, well, and, and here's the thing. The reason why I asked the question is I, I've done the, I've done my deep dive on it, but I've never actually sat across from somebody who's like, hey, I can tell you what it's like from the admins side and this is what it actually means because there's a lot of knuckleheads out there that put their face in front of a microphone just like we do and will tell you that qualified immunity means that the cop is basically not held responsible, only the taxpayers. Just what he said, right. And I, if that's the truth, I don't believe that that's okay. I mean the taxpayers should not have to deal with problems that were made because there's no fucking training and that we have bad leadership and we have bad hiring practices. All of the things that you just laid out. We should, the taxpayers shouldn't have to do that. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

[B]

Yeah, I, yeah, I mean I, Yes, I don't see the argument from the public as well, but that goes, almost goes back to what I said. The beginning is if we were putting our cops through the right training and focused on all those right things. The amount of errors which I think the one you're talking about is just an error. That dude, I mean, I mean he shoots a guy, you know, it's a hot call, it sucks, it's an error. But there are so many we see that aren't errors that are just poor application of the law and poor training.

[C]

And that just by itself. Jimmy the chance and everybody, we Monday morning quarterback a lot. We don't really like to like that call. I wouldn't sit there and say if we watch that body cam, I wouldn't sit there and say about that cop because I don't know what was going through his head. I don't know the background, I don't know the story, it's awful that it happened. But just the profession where that's you, you're at 7:11, you're talking to the wife, it's 2 in the morning, you're like, man, I get off in a couple hours, it's amazing. That's you now you are responding to the home invasion. You are, you can't even hear the lights and sirens. It's just you and it's somebody in there and you gotta go and you were just drinking a coffee, talking to your wife and that's how fast that trigger you have. No, it's not a 12 hour mission where you're studying analytics, you're studying terrain, you're studying the enemy. You know what you're going to do. It goes that fast. And now you're in a home invasion call and that happens to you. And it's like, why would you choose the profession a. That that's you. That, that, that. But that's been cop work forever. Let's take, let's say society and politicians support us. That's already a heavy profession to take on. And, and then you want to take the backing away from that profession. It's almost like you look at it not like we're talking about. If somebody showed you this is how actually police work is, they go, I'm not doing that job.

[B]

Yeah, that's why the TikTok movement has all these dances going on because they trick them into the job and they get into it. But you just take. Even if it's not your fault. And I was thinking about this in the way here, all of us here and you, you know, overseas and seen things that you didn't want to say. See, think about just by, by random chance of God and your job, you end up at a juvenile drowning or your buddy gets shot. Can you say drowning, drowning, drowning. Or just those calls that like, you really don't think they stick with you until you're like just. I'm like cruising over and you start thinking about. I'm thinking about the topic we're talking about. I'm thinking, man, think about me. Shitty calls I've been on where like you're the bearer of bad news or you're the, the first person this person sees, they have a family member dead in your face. And it's like you're over there like, how about the Mets this weekend? Like, you know, it's just over and over and over and over exposure to those type of incidents. But then you got people that don't take it serious. And those are the times usually like use for like mental dumps. And like, man, I'm really having a problem here. Not, you know, I need views on tick tock or this. I'm gonna sell my product. And it just to me is a big problem of all that stuff.

[D]

Save it for that call you need to talk about. You go to the shitty call, right? You go to the Infant death, the draft, the baby drowning and that. You go to that call and then your radio goes off. You just got toned to that home invasion.

[B]

Yeah. Now you're at the home.

[D]

Now you're going from there to there with no break. And then that's another failure. Supervision to know when your guys need to break, set them down.

[E]

Listen to.

[C]

The radio and respond to these calls and get out and go, hey, son, go home.

[D]

Absolutely.

[B]

And think about that. Until we talk about ptsd, that call is probably with you the rest of your life. They're drowning. And an hour later, after you smashed a subway sandwich in the middle of. You get the next call, and you haven't even digested the fact that some kid just died. And now you got your gun pointed at some dude that's not listening and acting crazy. That can all happen.

[C]

But that emotion from that kid is now behind the trigger. Absolutely right. Wrong or indifferent, it is a fact.

[B]

And that's an argument. Throw an argument with your lady in there or disagree with your zone partner that you just got an argument over not taking a report, or you just.

[C]

Came out of your supervisor's office, you.

[B]

Were speeding on your way to your last home invasion. You're going too fast.

[E]

I. I can. I can. I can come at this from a completely different direction. So, I mean, when we first got.

[C]

Me, bro.

[E]

Okay, bro. When we first got to Iraq, the first firefight that we got into, my. My, My. One of my soldiers was looking at me going, hey, Corporal, can I shoot back? I'm like, yeah, dude, fire it up, man. Let's. Would you please open fire? And. And so, like, that level of discipline is there, but also the level of fear of, like, if I fuck this up, like, I'm going to jail, I'm going to Leavenworth. I mean, we had the same issue because of the rules of engagement and everything else that we had on us. And that was in Iraq, where, I mean, like, yeah, absolutely. But then you spend, you know, by the end of 15 months in combat where you've got, you know, you know, Humvees getting blown to pieces, and, you know, you're seeing all the bad stuff happen. You got guys that are like, bro, you are getting a little bit too close to the edge on shooting people. I had a. I had a guy in my platoon that I. I swear, up and down, he liked killing people. He really enjoyed it. And at the end, I couldn't blame him because we had lost so many dudes killed and wounded. He was just angry, and there was nothing I Could do to pull that guy off the line. We're here. This is what we got to do. So I can look at that and go, hey, man, we definitely. This is a human problem. This is a human problem. The only thing we can do to mitigate it is understand the problem, have good leadership and have good backstops for mental health and things like that. But we also have to enforce standards. And if you're a, you know, if you're a knucklehead out there, bro, you gotta go, man.

[C]

All right, we got to. We've got to get on some mini topics, and then we got to talk about the topic of the evening, which is the. Well, the topic of the eating is lands. But the thumbnail.

[B]

And we also got. We got some good videos in there.

[E]

Too, but we'll check what we broadcast in the morning.

[C]

Yeah. What?

[E]

Yeah, you said evening.

[C]

Oh, my bad. I'm sorry. I'm gonna say that forever. Let's talk. Let's talk. Trump. Two things. Trump, Peace in Gaza. And Trump paid all of the soldiers during this government shutdown. Because I. When I was in. When I was in the army, the government got shut down, and they were like, yeah, you are going to get paid. That's not a thing that. But you're gonna go. And we had to. You. The banks now had to offer advances because, you know, so I've been there. And the fact that Trump paying soldiers, like. So let's talk about both things. Let's talk about peace and Gaza first.

[E]

Okay. Peace in Gaza. Well, we've got a couple of issues. Number one, that the Israeli. Apparently, they got the last 20. The Israelis got their last 20 hostages back that have been hostages for God knows how long. And it was over a year now. But the Israelis are again going, well, you didn't give us all the bodies back. So it's. You're not. You're not keeping it. You know, you're not keeping your promise. So that's a freaking issue. So we'll see, man. I mean, I'm personally of the opinion. It doesn't matter what either side does. They want to fight, let them fight. And do you think it's funny?

[C]

He's taken the wind out of the sails of everybody that hates Trump when he brings peace to the Middle east.

[B]

Literally immediately find something else.

[E]

It's. It's like, dude, like, it doesn't. I mean, this guy could fucking cure cancer.

[C]

The guy did. The guy did the impossible.

[B]

We joke.

[C]

Peace in the Middle east is not a thing. Like, it can never be because of the way their culture that they're so divisive and what. We drew the lines after World War I. Yeah. Did not care about what we just did as a world.

[E]

Yeah. Well, anytime you see. I mean, I'm a history guy. Anytime you see straight lines on a map, there's problems. If you go look at a place that has a straight line as a border, there's freaking problems.

[C]

Was it World War I where we all got.

[E]

So post World War I, where we.

[C]

All said, this is the new territory?

[E]

And then, I mean, first of all, the biggest problem with Israel. So just. Just so people understand it, is the.

[G]

When.

[E]

When Britain.

[C]

What? Mike's gonna say something. He looks at me, and then I start laughing. Is that the biggest problem with Israel?

[E]

The biggest problem with. With Israel.

[C]

Right.

[E]

And it's not Israelis and it's not Jews. It's the fact that when Britain pulled out, when England pulled out of there, out of, you know, Lebanon and all these places. What. No, France was Lebanon. They just basically went, okay, we're out. Have at it, guys. And then the. The Jewish state Israel immediately declared independence and said, okay, we're Israel. And then five minutes later was in.

[C]

A war.

[E]

Where nobody was really helping them. I mean, they had, like, these guys. I mean, you think about the irony of this. They were flying German Messerschmitt fighters with British and American pilots that were blowing up American M4 Sherman tanks that were being used by the people that were trying to destroy Israel. It was nuts. And nobody stepped in. And we just went, okay, guys, have at it. And the Israelis won. And, you know, so the Palestinians were told, hey, just get out of the way. The other Arab nations are going to come in, we're going to crush the Jews, and then once. Once you guys leave, you can have your land back. Well, they didn't win. The Israelis won. So the Palestinians.

[C]

That was a problem.

[E]

So they were like, hey, my bad. Yeah, so they didn't win. And now the Palestinians are like, hey, we are supposed to have this place. It was. It was ours. And from the Jewish perspective, they're going, you left. We won the war. Therefore, it's ours. And you start seeing this over and over and over again. Well, now we're at the point where the Israelis are the most powerful country in the region. I mean, they have everything that we can give them and then some. There's nobody out there that can fight them and win, at least not connect conventionally. So they've got to use unconventional tactics. Okay, well, what do we do now? I mean, at what point do we just go, hey, this is a problem and somebody's got to step in and fix it. But there's no. There's no good answers anymore.

[C]

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[C]

And we're back. So the thumbnail, right? The reason why I made it a thumbnail is because this, you know, we're talking about brass and admin that go unchecked, right? We're talking about, we're talking about chiefs and sheriffs that are. But the, this goes way beyond unchecked. This is like, how did this guy become chief of police?

[B]

Yes and no. Because once you see this, this is going on in agencies right now unreported. Maybe not the chief level, but stuff like this has happened around all lot of agencies that people won't come forward and talk about. But go ahead.

[C]

All right, so let's go to the Instagram. Let's actually watch the, the video of this. This is a chief of police visiting his dispatchers Right. And proceeds to sexually assault the dispatcher by grabbing her head. Now, all clothes were on, so I. I really don't know the context. I don't know if they dated. I don't know if they flirted. I don't know if she did the dispatcher thing and flirted. Then he took. He. It was like, oh, chick's flirting with me. And went right up there. I don't know any of the background, but I do know what I saw on camera is that he took her head and was like, you know, kind of like. What would you call that?

[B]

Let's watch it.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I don't want to describe it.

[C]

I know. I don't either. All right, so that's it then. This is the YouTube video after it went viral. Obviously, the computer commissioner or the mayor or somebody, they were having a town meeting the day after. This is in Alabama, right? So policing in places like Arkansas, Alabama, all these states. My personal opinions are a little bit behind in the times, so. And I don't just mean in police work. I just mean, like, in general. So they have a meeting, and in the city council meeting, I don't think it was about that in particular. But then the reporter came up and asked, hey, is this because. Did he resign due to the video that surfaced? And the mayor, whoever it was, like, I don't really want to talk about it. And she goes, this video right here. And he goes, yeah, I have a video. So here's the YouTube video.

[G]

Before we take roll, I want to read a short letter says, as of 10, 6, 2025, I resign as police chief of Cordova. I hope the city of Cordova the best and keep moving on forward. Jason Hare.

[I]

A brief resignation letter from Jason Hare read aloud before the swearing in of interim Police chief Harold Cox.

[G]

I, Harold Cox.

[C]

I, Harold Cox.

[G]

Do solemnly swear.

[D]

Do solemnly swear.

[I]

Once the council meeting was over, Mayor Jeremy Pate spoke to us on the sudden departure of Hare. Though he wouldn't confirm the reason behind Hare's resignation.

[G]

There's been chatter on the Internet of, you know, an incident. And so we were just saying that we handled things in a swift manner.

[I]

When you're referring to an incident, are you referring to this one? Is this Jason Hare in this video?

[G]

Yes.

[I]

This video, sent to ABC 3340, appears to show an interaction between a man and a woman. Mayor Jeremy Pate confirming to me that the man in this video is now former Chief Jason Hare. In the video, you can see Hare walk up to her, pat her head, and she appears to swat him away. Later on in the clip, he's seen leaning over her, appearing to briefly guide her head towards him. She again swats him away. Is there anything that you wanted to say to the people of Cordova who may be confused or shocked to see a video of their chief like that on Facebook?

[G]

Well, only thing I can say is that, you know, nobody wants to be in a position like that. And flesh is weak and you know, people get caught up in stuff sometimes that they don't intentionally or don't necessarily want to do. And I'm not making excuses for anybody. I'm just saying everybody gets caught up in situations that aren't good.

[C]

Unmute us real fast.

[B]

That reminds me of our biggest.

[C]

Holy shit.

[B]

Reminds me of our biggest fan.

[C]

Yeah, and we'll get to that. But the accountability. So first off, she said, is this the video? And he smiled and was like, like that is not.

[B]

You're.

[C]

You're mate, you're. You're making light of it at that point. The way the whole world sees it is that you're like oh yeah, that video. Like no, that's. Am I. I feel like I'm the only one that's like this is insane because beyond he says that and then he's just trying to dodge the question and he's like no, no one wants to be in that particular. Of course they don't.

[D]

Absolutely.

[B]

You know, position. The girl's 18. You know who doesn't want to be in that position is the 18 year old girl.

[C]

Was he talking about her?

[B]

No, he was talking about him.

[D]

My opinion.

[C]

I bet you they're friends. They've got to be friends.

[B]

Yeah, that's a. But that is man from firsthand knowledge that is going on and on and on in agencies as we speak right now. That type of behavior. There's predators that we. The badge. There's predators. We have a. We have a stalker that's a predator and, and he has partaken in the same type of conduct.

[C]

Go check out if you want to know what we're talking about. Obviously if you don't live on a rock. We have somebody that's obsessed with us. He is a stalker at heart. He was terminated because he was a stalker. He's. He doesn't stop and what he do. He's mentally ill.

[B]

But go to Dom Izzo. Domezzo did a. A reel on it.

[C]

It's just so hard to jump around.

[B]

It is. But anyway, let me get back to this topic. Is this is common and you see we're talking about the whole protection in the image. They're trying to protect their little image in their little town and almost making light of it or making it as if it's not a big deal. You cannot tell me that that chief walked in there and that was the first time he had ever assaulted or done that to a female. It's probably hundreds. That type of behavior, it just like child predators and everything else, you're kept.

[C]

In the tip of the iceberg and.

[B]

You'Re not ever curing that. He finally got caught and he'll be online in three months with his own page talking about accountability and how. How you need to hold everybody accountable.

[C]

Heroes of the profession.

[B]

Correct. And he'll attack everybody else because he is a monster. And that is that type of behavior. If you take women, domestic violence, women, like that type of behavior is you're.

[C]

In a position of power, correct?

[B]

Yep, correct.

[C]

And badge.

[B]

Yes. And when you do that, you are exploiting the entire profession. And you're showing a chief. A chief. He's in charge. Think about. And like Dom said, think about how many traffic stops or citizen contacts where he pushed it. And we're finally, with social media and, and body cam and videos, we're seeing people finally get caught. The guy locks himself in the back of the car with a chick. Yeah, dude. In an apartment complex getting in the back seat with a chick. I'm gonna go on a podcast in a couple weeks and I'm going to talk about some of the guys at my agency that did that, that kind of stuff. But it's, It's. It's unfortunate and that you can imagine how many victims are. Are out there under that. Chief.

[C]

All right, so Jimmy. Let me. We'll go to Jimmy and then we'll go to Lance. I mean, you have young daughter. I do two.

[E]

Yeah, just one.

[C]

I mean, I say. Oh, just one. So when I say young, I don't mean like. I mean like young as in just.

[E]

She's 15.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. 8. 18 year old. Dispatcher. 18 years old.

[B]

Completely undeveloped.

[C]

I mean, like, what, you're a citizen of this shitty town in Alabama. What. What do you expect that to happen to this guy?

[E]

Well, I. First of all, whatever the. I mean, there's a law for this, right? That's so probably a.

[C]

So you are.

[E]

You are. I mean, that looks like a sexual assault to me. I mean, I know that the Supreme Court talks about this stuff. I can't define it, but I know it won't when I see it. I mean, like, that is clearly a violation of the law. And if you're going to enforce the law, chief, shouldn't you be held to a higher standard because you're supposed to enforce the law. Yeah.

[C]

There's abuse of power laws, too. Yeah. And there's.

[E]

I mean, so if you're not going to go, I mean, like, what should have happened immediately was, I'm assuming that, like, hey, if you're the chief, you have a deputy chief. Right. Okay. So you're going to step into the chief role until you either get hired to do it full time or somebody else gets brought in. Right. You should immediately come out and go, this is what happened. This is what we saw. It's completely unacceptable. He's got to go have his day in court. But this right here, I can absolutely fire him for cause. And we're going to go ahead and investigate this as if it was any other crime. I mean, is it that hard to say?

[C]

Standard. And I didn't get the feeling. Feeling from that.

[B]

Yeah, here's what happened. Here's what happened. That incident. And you know this. That incident, if not leaked to the press, gets brushed under the rug within the agency. There's some talking to. And then that dispatcher is probably fired or let go in the next few months. That's exactly what would have happened. That's the power of what Lance is doing and what we're doing and getting these stories out so that the agency, that dude, that guy they interviewed at the end there, he. He was part of it. They were going to cover that up. They knew the video got out. That's why that became an incident. If that video is not leaked, that poor dispatcher is now, stay away from her. She's gonna report you for this or that or watch out for her. And then she starts getting joked about in front of her probably. Ooh, don't. Let's not go around you. We know you like to tell on people. She's gonna get treated like a piece of garbage because it's not out where she can actually go, look, it happened. So if that video didn't exist and that incident happened and she tried, even when she tries to report that incident without the video, she's going to be the problem. And you know it.

[D]

Absolutely. You know it.

[B]

You know how she's going to be treated in that building. But that is a result of that video getting out. And then they have to deal with it. And even when they have to deal with it, you can see how they make light of it and how they really try to still save face for A predator.

[E]

Look, I mean, let's. Lance, let's talk about the irony of this. Right? You are a deputy chief of a sheriff's department. Correct.

[C]

Police.

[D]

The police department.

[E]

You are over here going. We have bad leadership and we have standards issues, and we've got to bring this to the. To the public. That's where we are right now. Let's not lose the. Let's not bury the lead here. There's a deputy chief of the. Of a police department who's saying, we got problems, and he's sitting here in the studio. Yeah.

[C]

Why.

[E]

Why is this even happening? It doesn't make any. I mean, like, as a citizen, I'm getting pissed off.

[C]

And that's what I think. That's what Lance is. Is kind of dedicating his life now. Right. I have the insight. I have the knowledge. I have.

[D]

I have their secrets. That's what I say. That's why they hate me. I have their secrets. And just not interrupt. But Mike, I think you mentioned it. How many times this guy did this? Because was that. Now, was that a department camera that everybody knew about, or was that one set up? Because I'm tired of dealing with this. Because the two issues are, if it was a hidden one, well, then this happened a ton of times. And if there's an apartment one. He didn't care. No, he didn't care. And then he gets to resign. That's the beauty of law enforcement, Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

We get to resign. We don't get to get fired. Well, we give people the opportunity to resign.

[C]

Resigning also, then when that puts a negative. What is that word? Connotation on that word. Because everybody resigns. Right. Oh, law enforcement officer resigns. Right. CEO of company resigns for the kiss cam. Resign. Resign. Resign. Other than quit. Retire early like there's no other.

[B]

But in situations like that, and in the situation that happened, me personally, there shouldn't. The administration should take a stand. There's no option to resign. Don't accept your resignation. You're fired.

[D]

Absolutely. 100% fired and charged.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[D]

Because that's a crime.

[C]

That would be firing somebody without an investigation. So you can't. You can't set that precedent.

[E]

So here. Here's a question.

[B]

I think there's certain things that.

[C]

I mean. Yeah.

[B]

Things that.

[E]

Let me ask a question. Do you guys.

[B]

Here's. Here's a caveat.

[C]

One.

[B]

One. And I don't know. It goes both ways, but I know our sheriff pulled this trick in the policy. There is an exception to. To bypass the entire invest IA Investigation if the sheriff witnesses something himself, himself. So in this case where the county or city video witness it themselves and can go, okay, that's pretty obvious what it is, you're fired. So there are exceptions for incidents where they're observed and the seriousness of it.

[C]

I mean if you worry about you.

[B]

Walk up and kill somebody, you're going to get fired immediately, like murder. So in this case, I mean, to that poor 18 year old girl. That's, that's right.

[C]

I don't think so. I think this is more cut and dry than a murder.

[B]

It is, but I'm saying it's on video though. So I think you go, you're fired. And what are you gonna do? I'm gonna fight for my job back. No, he's gonna make an Instagram.

[C]

I mean they make an Instagram. The risk of, they just run the risk of setting a precedence and then wrongful termination.

[B]

Certain things though require just like use of force doesn't apply. You're right. In the most cases they're setting a bad precedent. But these are the ones where you go, this is pretty obvious. This guy has to be fired.

[E]

I here's, here's my question for you. Do you guys know about the Battle of One? I'm bringing it back to the Army. Do you guys know what the Battle of Walnut was? Hit it, okay, Battle of wanote was in 2007 in Afghanistan. They put a platoon of infantry guys at the bottom of a valley surrounded by three mountains. They were attacked by over 200 foreign fighters and were almost completely overrun. There was nine killed and 27 wounded. The whole platoon, 100% casualties. The army went to do the investigation on the company commander, the battalion commander and the brigade commander. And it was pulled from the army and they said, no, you can't do the investigation. The Marine Corps is going to do the investigation. We're going to completely outsource it. So why can't we as, as an organization, why can't a police department go, hey, you can't investigate this. You, you.

[C]

Well, I mean they wouldn't be able.

[B]

To cook the books.

[C]

It's the oldest, it's the oldest joke in the book. Internal affairs professional standards. You have the coin sitting right there. They're, they're supposed to be like, it's almost like they take another oath, you know, saying I'm gonna be even more upholding of the, like I'm gonna hold cops responsible. And of course there's, there's a need for internal affairs. But is there a great argument that it should be a different entity. Yeah, I mean, I shouldn't even be.

[E]

From the same state.

[B]

The higher you go, though, the more acceptable that behavior becomes. Dude, the old sheriff of St. Lucie county had an FDLE investigation done. He violated every election law there was known demand. They printed it out, they looked at, they said, yep, he's guilty of all those. We're not going to arrest him. He's the old sheriff. He resigned anyway. We'll just forget it. Let you or me go out and commit 11, 12 crimes and violations. You think they're going to go, yeah, well, he quit anyway. We're just gonna let him slide. No, they're gonna arrest you. They're gonna. There is just. As you go up higher, there is more leeway for. Nah, it's, you know, we don't, we don't want to rest the sheriff, you know, even though he's breaking like nine public, public record laws and he's, you know, hiding his conversations and he's not following these. And we'll just let it go. But let you do that. Well, you're done. Let me do that. I'm done.

[E]

I want to know what Lance thinks about this, to be honest with you. Like what, what would be the, the argument to saying, hey, I'm in Florida. The chief of police is charged with these crimes. So we're going to go to, I don't know, New York or Virginia or someplace completely have different laws.

[B]

FDL is the.

[C]

Should be the one for department law.

[E]

We're not talking about the law. We're talking about, did this guy violate the standards of conduct?

[C]

Well, they have different standards of conduct.

[B]

Well, even if you go in state, we have the ethics commission. We have entities in Florida that are responsible for that. Nobody does any, you know, it. Nobody. That ethics commission should be investigating Palm Bay with everything you've brought forward, some entity. Even if, let's say Lance's office rockers crazy. He's made up every allegation. It doesn't matter. You can't walk up to a victim of a crime and go, yeah, that probably didn't happen. I'm just gonna not even take a report. But they are made aware. You go make the city council aware of what you know is illegally happening. And you've been gone how long?

[D]

Since September 2nd. Okay. Over a year. Yep.

[B]

And nobody has investigated them or even looked into it?

[D]

Nope.

[B]

You have agencies in Florida that are supposed to be doing that?

[D]

Yeah, I sent a 17 page letter to FDLE. My response was, there's not enough information in here. Just do an investigation.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

I put, I put text messages about my chief and my deputy chief on conversations about buying a pellet rifle and shooting children. I have patrol logs and I have text messages of command staff where the chief sent our entire police department to attack his neighbors. Disabled neighbors. Yeah, it's a sober living facility. But they, they wrote up this patrol log saying we had all these narcotics complaints in nine months. They were targeted 200 and some times and there was one marijuana arrest for a guy that was walking on the.

[B]

Wrong side of the Weaponized the government against 100. And you made it clear to the other government agencies.

[D]

Absolutely.

[B]

There's not enough here to look into it.

[D]

I have the text messages of him laughing. You know, he's pissed off because there's a, there's a resident being rolled out on a stretcher, but yet he puts a, he puts a statement out there when he makes a fentanyl. A murder arrest for a guy's fentanyl. We, we hold, we look after our, our citizens and, and we, you know, even those that are addicted. But yet I put the text messages right there in that, that news article says here's where he's calling his neighbors, basically targeting them and how he's pissed off because they're addicted. They're addicted. Right. Disabled.

[B]

And now imagine you're an 18 year old girl who has the chief do that.

[D]

No way.

[B]

You go tell somebody about that.

[D]

I lost my job because I came out and you know what, and you were the deputy chief and you know who's still in my place? A guy that didn't say a damn, damn word. And he's going to be the, he's going to be the chief of police in April 2026. The guy that sat silent.

[B]

Yep.

[D]

He's going to be rewarded for his silence because he knew of everything that I've, that I've spoken about. But he's going to be rewarded by becoming the next W chief or becoming the next chief.

[B]

The same what I dealt with with the last year during.

[C]

Hold on. We gotta, we gotta take Collins.

[B]

Do you have anybody calling Dan might have a story. We got to get to that Broward county video too. But that's in working video.

[C]

No, that's for Thursday.

[D]

We're gonna save it.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

But while we. But look at Kissimmee Police Department, right. They went through the kind of same. I talk about Kissimmee Police Department because they had an excessive force case and, and it was covered up. And I think they just put their deputy chief on Administrative leave just a couple weeks ago because they brought in a whole new chief. There was indictments, There was all kinds of stuff. And so they had. They brought in an outside chief that's literally. I think he's fired. And. And maybe some of that's because of the perception, right. We talk about. Well, because the public wants that. But you know what? They're making a change, and he's trying to. He's trying to make the change. And their deputy chief is on administrative leave. Well, we're going to promote ours. We're going to make him the chief because he was silent.

[E]

Okay, well, then let me. Let me ask you this. Right?

[C]

So who.

[E]

Who hired you to be the deputy chief of police?

[D]

My chief.

[E]

Your chief.

[D]

The chief is currently chief now.

[E]

Okay, so you started out as a patrol guy. You started. You started from the bottom. Work your way.

[C]

Same agency.

[D]

Same agency.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

Okay.

[D]

I worked for two. I worked for North Carolina for four and a half years, and then I went to Palm Bay in 2004.

[E]

Okay, so do you can still move your way all the way up the ladder without being brought in from outside?

[D]

Absolutely.

[E]

Because it seems like a lot of chiefs are, like. It reminds me of, like, the NFL coaching carousel.

[C]

Like, oh, you're right. You're right. And there's pros and cons, but I can see. I can see where you're.

[D]

You're.

[C]

As a. As a civilian, you're like, why do. Why are so.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Right. Like, you retire from a big, huge agency, right? Like, as, like a. A deputy chief or chief deputy, however they want to say you're. Or maybe even a major. You know, you're. You're up in the echelons, but you never really make it to chief or sheriff in this big city. But when you retire, tons of towns and cities want to hire an outside chief. And I'm assuming that's because the city council can say, this is who we want. Are you okay with doing this? Having somebody come up through the ranks they're not going to be able to mold and manipulate?

[D]

Yeah, well, I think you have. I think you have two different things.

[E]

Right?

[D]

So. Yeah. So when we move people up the ranks, that means they've been silent. They haven't. They haven't. They've never bucked the system. And. And then when you stay inside, you get to protect your secrets. So you don't think that Chief Fagello and Chief Spears have secrets on my city council? Absolutely, because I do. I was there, right, when a guy filed a complaint because the mayor was brandishing a firearm during a ride along. So. So by keeping inside, we keep our secrets. Because like, like Kissimmee, they went outside. Now all their secrets are exposed. So. And plus, and I say this, you know, Chief Spears, his wife is an FBI agent. I filed complaints with the FBI too.

[C]

Nothing.

[D]

And so when you stay inside, there's no more accountability.

[C]

Are you, Are you pro bringing in an outside chief?

[D]

I am, I am. When your agency is like Melbourne did it. Melbourne's agency was upside down. They did the vote of no confidence. So about 10 years ago, they brought an outside chief and he brought in a whole outside command staff. That's how jacked up they were. And I think when you have somebody like me, a deputy chief that sat in those meetings, and I'm telling you, we justified use of forces that were not justified. I'm telling you there are text messages about your chief and your deputy chief about shooting children with pellet rifles. How can you stay inside when that culture, when that culture, I mean, is just as brutal, you know, and, and you have your. And that's funny. I'm assuming that was the mayor on that video, right?

[C]

Mayor or somebody.

[D]

Yeah. Kind of laughing and, and you know, and he's trying to push aside, I think he said sins of the flesh. He's trying to justify. But I'm not trying to make excuses.

[C]

Yes, you are.

[E]

You just did.

[B]

And because you know what?

[D]

If that were your daughter, if that were your daughter, you would not be sitting up here smiling.

[B]

And the difference between the cities are the cities can just keep. Keep that in house. At least the sheriff's office have an opportunity for an election or what happens in an election if you say, oh, it's a broken system to bring people in from the outside. Well, every four years a new sheriff wins and he brings in an insider.

[E]

Commander, Sheriff Bob Gaultier. He's been the sheriff. And yeah, they don't.

[B]

But. But I'm saying there's an opportunity for change. The citizens get to at least make that. It's still politically based, is still. Who's the most popular. All the money. But in a, in a city you could like Vera beach police department is like third generation Dave Curry brought up from the old chief brought up. And they have voted no confidence twice in the city of Vera Beach. They've written 10 page memos about it. They have multiple employees have written the same thing. They're almost identical, you know. Yeah. So they have the exact same problem going on in Vero Beach. That's in Palm Bay. Nobody will do anything about it, at least.

[C]

Well, here's the problem. Here's the problem is that you're talking about this. If this was another culture or any type of other industry, everybody would be rallying it. But they're looking nationwide. The cops that are watching now and the cops that will watch, that goes. That's your problem. That's Vero Beach's problem. That is that the brotherhood is gone. So the fact that that could happen in a. Everybody works for a local agency. Right? I mean, you could work for the state, but at the end, I don't really hear feds bitching too much about the job. I don't think that's really changed. And so they don't have to worry about cultural issues. But like, a cop sitting in his cruiser in California needs to feel that that is a cultural thing. It's not just Vero Beach. It's not just Palm Bay. It's everywhere. So I think people, when they hear specific places, they go. Well, that doesn't pertain to me. It absolutely does pertain to you.

[B]

But my DMs are full of. The same thing happened here. Same thing, multiple stories. Again. The problem is, like Izzo has just recently said, and I even experienced locally, is he's saying, now you guys keep filling my DMs with complaints. When are you going to have a backbone and stand up and say, well, I need a paycheck. Well, then I guess you don't care bad enough.

[D]

It's funny, I get the same stuff. I got two anonymous letters, which my city manager said, well, they're anonymous letters, but you're right, because we need a paycheck. Listen, I lost my job.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I sold my house because I didn't know where my next check was coming from.

[B]

I.

[D]

That's how I survived for nobody care about your months. I didn't have a retirement.

[B]

And now you get steam and guys are reaching back. Hey, man, Lance, you're doing a great job. Hey, you need to bring this issue up. It's like, you bring it up, you say something about it. Yeah, you say it. Because at the end of the day, I get the paycheck and all that, but, bro, this gets me so mad. Like, to have a spot spine. When you watch fellow employees getting railroaded and you know it's wrong, but you're like, lieutenant's list. I'm on the sergeant's list.

[C]

You are. You were a government employee for almost 10 years.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, so you understand that when you and your family and. And your lifestyle and Your mindset when you've relied on a government paycheck, right. Wrong or indifferent, that's just. That's. That's what you know. Since you were a young adult, that's what you've known. Now, law enforcement is the same thing. Luckily, firefighters don't have to deal with all this shit. But law enforcement. You're a cop for 10 years. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

[D]

Corrupt.

[C]

Corrupt.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You're a cop for 10 years, and now you have people like me and Mike saying, fuck your paycheck. This is do what's right. Do what's right. Well, it's different because it's like I've always said this about the COVID thing. I was. You know, everyone's like, all these cops. People like me and Mike are like, hey, these standards are no go. You need to quit your job. You need to quit everything. Can you imagine looking your wife 19 years into your 20 year career and going, I'm gonna stand up for what's right and I'm gonna get fired. Do you think your wife's gonna go, oh, good. Good idea. I wanted to sell the house, actually. I didn't even want kids to go to college. I don't want any of this. Right. So it is a fucking problem. So to just sit there and tell cops, don't do this. You need to be a man. You need to put your integrity first. Of course that's the right answer. It's just not that easy.

[B]

It's not what they have unions, and the unions can collectively say without having to be one individual.

[C]

The. You just said unions don't have anything, but you have.

[B]

At least you can get the message out. A unique. Our local union.

[C]

All right, hold on.

[B]

But, Jimmy, go ahead. Good.

[E]

So there were. The reason I got out of the army was because I had problems with what was happening. So this is my own story. By 2010, the writing was on the wall on what the rules of engagement were going to be like, how we were going to deploy, the way we were even. We were changed from a brigade combat team to an advise and assist brigade. There was so much political bullshit that was coming down the pipe. And I could see. Because I had been in an army that had only known war, I had. I could see the. The petty tyrannies that were coming down, and I didn't want any part of it anymore. Was it. Was it bad? Yeah. Was there anything that I needed to really do?

[C]

No.

[E]

It was just the way it was changing. And I didn't want to be A part of it. So I absolutely did go, hey, I'm done. What I didn't have was reprisal, and that's what he's talking about.

[C]

What's reprisal mean?

[E]

That people.

[C]

I can't. I can't. I'm sorry, guys. You're gonna call me stupid, but I.

[E]

Need to know what's reprisal means that, like, not only did you say something and you're doing the right thing, but now you're being attacked because of it.

[C]

Okay, so.

[E]

And that's what he's talking about.

[C]

Like, I knew that by the way.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

He just reminded me. Yeah.

[E]

So that's a. That's a completely different animal. Yeah.

[C]

Do you.

[E]

Do you need to go ahead and do the hard right over the easy wrong? You absolutely do.

[C]

Answer. Oh, they're on. Okay.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

It's our. It's our weekly infantry story.

[E]

Oh, God.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

I. Clint.

[B]

We're going to transition to a Clint's story.

[E]

Oh, God. It's Clint.

[B]

All right, Clint, Mike's yours.

[E]

All right. Hey, Good night. Good.

[B]

Good afternoon.

[F]

Afternoon. Yeah, it's afternoon.

[B]

Hey.

[F]

So it's been a great show this morning. It's been a little bit on the serious side, I feel like. So maybe a little brief break for a little bit of humor. So I wanted to tell the gayest thing I ever seen in the infantry.

[D]

Oh, my God.

[F]

So I was the squad leader at Fort Stewart, and we had been in the. In the field, and we had done like a company movement to contact, live fire range. And so the entire company had been up in that whole night before we came back, and we did a. We did an 18 mile road march back. And then when we got to the company, we cleaned all our weapons and everything. And then we were waiting to get, you know, the word. And then that's when we found out that one of the vehicles that we had rode in earlier in the field, problem that the support unit had lost a single. So the entire. The entire battalion was locked down, and we were probably going on about 36 hours, 40 hours awake. So it was like five in the morning. Everything's turning. We're all standing there. And the. You could feel your hair growing. That's how long you could like this story.

[E]

Paint is drying.

[B]

I need to shave. Good. Keep going. Good.

[F]

Yeah. So, you know, all the team leaders are starting to trip and just smoking Joe for no reason. And, you know, it's kind of. They're doing the games. All the games are starting. And so I'm walking by a group of, you know, junior enlisted guys are sitting there. And so 3rd ID, especially the. That light unit, we get all the DUIs from 1st Ranger Battalion. So our company had seven Ranger bat guys from 1st Ranger that had DUIs, or they had beat up their platoon sergeant or whatever their story was. And they were. They were savages in the field and on deployment. But, you know, every weekend, you got your fingers crossed. Cause here comes a DUI or some domestic or whatever they were. They were problem kids, but they were awesome, you know, on the line. So I'm walking by this group, and the one dude is kind of known as being a, you know, a pretty funny guy. Joker. And he stopped me. He said, you know, sergeant, Love, you think you're pretty funny, don't you? And I said, well, that's what people tell me, or whatever. And he said, how about me and you have a roast battle? And we just go back and forth insulting each other, and, you know, we just leave rank out of it, and we just go back and forth. You think you want to do that? And this is a specialist that got booted from Ranger Bass. And I said, yeah, man, that's cool. I mean, I. I was exhausted, but I was.

[C]

So am I.

[F]

You know, I needed something to do. So me and this dude just started going back. And I mean, we had probably. It was a couple people from each platoon, so we probably had 30 people watching us.

[B]

This is the first time I've been excited to get to the gay part. Okay, I put a rope. I have a. I have a rainbow.

[C]

Shirt on right now, doing Jimmy, you.

[B]

Okay?

[F]

We're going back and forth, and we're insulting each other. And he. You know, he's saying, you know, it. Some of the. The things are weak.

[D]

Like, I.

[F]

He said he. He picked on me because I wasn't the best runner at the time. And I. And I said that he was like two people. Back on the evolutionary chart of man, you know, where it shows, like, you're progressing from the monkey to the.

[B]

You said it.

[F]

He was two people. He was two people back or whatever. And, you know, everybody. So at the end, everybody said that I won.

[D]

So I.

[F]

You know, and everybody cheer.

[C]

You know what's funny? So viewership goes. People like Clint.

[B]

Yeah, I was. I was thinking. Heather's right. I was thinking the spongebob meme. Three hours later. Go ahead. I've now converted fleet. I'm completely gay at this point. I'm just still waiting, but go ahead.

[F]

Here comes here. Here comes the. All right, so me and. Me and My. My buddy, another squad leader, walking around, and the sun's getting ready to come up. So we walked by that same group of guys, and the one, the guy that I had the roast battle with, he's sitting in a chair, and he looks me in the eyes, and he's just looking me in the eyes, and I'm looking at him, and then he looks down at his crotch.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[F]

So I look down, and homeboy has got a raging hard on in his acu, right? I'm looking, I look down, I see his. His heart on.

[C]

Don't make Jimmy laugh. He's gonna die.

[F]

I thought he had his hands in his pants making it look like a dick. And he was throbbing it like he was making it move. And so I look.

[E]

Look at.

[F]

I look at him in the face, and I'm thinking that he's got his hands in his pants, doing it with his hand.

[D]

And he's got.

[F]

Shook his hands behind his head, lean back, and he's just smiling at me. And I mean, I busted out laughing. So then one of the other rangers runs over and sits down on it.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[F]

He looks up at everybody else and he goes. He's still moving it.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

That is the.

[C]

That was the gay.

[B]

Thank you, Clint, for the gayest thing I've heard. June. It's now June 1st.

[E]

Thank you for calling it that story aged me.

[C]

Yeah. Like Heather said. I think people are already, you know, talking Clint, Pretend Clint, at all costs. You know, he's the most.

[B]

He is the.

[C]

I've never even met this guy. I've never really had a conversation with him other than heard his dad stories. And he's the nicest guy.

[E]

He's so nice.

[C]

I want Clint to practice telling a story with a timer. Right. On your free time, much like we practice our draws and our. And stuff like that. I want Clint to practice telling a story and put it on a timer.

[B]

And then maybe, yeah, I could. I mean, but here I'm gonna start with the guy with his hands behind his. I mean, that story's good. Like, that 45 seconds is the gayest thing you're gonna hear. So you almost made it straight by telling in all the other. All the other parts.

[E]

It's all the superfluous details that just.

[B]

Like what he said, snuffle up against details.

[D]

Was he the. Is Clint the mayor from that video?

[B]

Clint's got some good stories. The problem is they're just slow developing. They're good, though. And I know his accent. Look, we lost it. It went up and down. When Clint was on.

[D]

That was his family. His family just flew.

[E]

It's like a. Joel.

[B]

Yeah. His family was just for that. Who? Clint for mayor. Yes, Clint for mayor. Clint for mayor. That was pretty good.

[E]

So what. Lance, what are. I mean, aside from the auditing, I. I mean, I'm. Your story is fascinating to me because, like, there's just. We need more people to do this. What. Can you run for office?

[D]

Actually, I was. No, I probably could. I just don't think a lot of people like me. Right. Because when. Well, when you. Critical law enforcement. One law enforcement, they're gonna. They're gonna start targeting you as anti cop. Defund the police. Right. For me, you'll see some of the chiefs in some of the articles that I've spoken. He's a disgruntled employee. They don't say I'm lying. They just use every adjective in the world to describe me. Well, I mean, I have no interest. Right, because you're. I've seen it. You look at Titusville. So they have their. Their police department is jacked up as well. I mean, they got a. They got a major right over there that made a phone call to a community meeting, basically saying, you didn't take that social media down, does a countdown on them. But they have one city council person, you know, one that's one vote. Can't make change. That's the problem.

[B]

I think, honestly, you're right, because if you. What you're doing, and I think you're gonna notice this because it's starting to flip. My way locally is if you're a politician, you can try to change it, but you don't. You can't say the things you can say is not a politician, not a cop. But slowly you're gonna see that because you. You're very good at. You're very calm. You're not screaming and yelling. You're providing facts, and you're providing accurate information. Eventually enough people are gonna go, all right, he's just a disgruntled fire deputy chief, whatever. Then they start to see the facts. And then more people get. Because I'm noticing now I'm about a year ahead of you. And now my videos on my local Facebook are going up to a thousand twelve hundred views. And I'm not screaming and yelling. I'm going, here's the fact. Here's the budget. I know what they're doing with the budget. I know. And you do as well. I know how they're hiding money. I know how they're saying, we need more money, but they're not. They're already being funded for 15, 20 open positions that they've been getting for 10 years that they haven't filled. Like. So when all these. When you start presenting the facts calmly that what you're doing is. Is more effective, in my opinion, for the community, and then the community can be informed and start electing people that align with what you're saying, going, hey, Lance is right. Lance is right about what he's saying. I'm going to run for mayor and I'm going to change things. And that's what you need to happen.

[D]

I mean, when I. When I enlist in the marine Corps in 1994, it took me almost.

[E]

What was your MOS?

[D]

03.11 infantry.

[E]

So everybody's a grunt. Everybody's a.

[D]

So it took me. It took me over 30 years to get my First Amendment, you know, my right to speak back. So I'm going to keep it for a little bit.

[C]

So. Yeah. Doesn't it feel good?

[D]

Yeah, 100 good. Because, you know, I can sit there and like, I went to mascot two weeks ago, and I stand in front of their chief, who hired officer Sean Rollins, who's terrorizing Palm Bay, three different agencies, that this guy is absolutely terrorized. And I get to tell that, chief, you failed, man. I'm looking him, dreading his face. He won't look at me, but I'm like, you failed. You failed. You failed Mascot. You failed Palm Bay. You failed to look at his. His training packet from Columbia, South Carolina, says he was terminated for four excessive use force cases. Put his hands, you know, around pushing down handcuffed prisoners and things like that. So I get to look them in the face and, and what I do, and they. They hate this. I say, guess what? I'm an FBI national graduate of a session 279. I'm one of the elite law enforcement officials.

[B]

And they hate it. You know, they don't expect. They don't expect it. And that's kind of what I saw at my agency. They don't expect you to hate it, to tell the truth, but they expect you to stay in the line.

[E]

This is. This is the Cash Patel argument, right? Cash Patel made a living. And who was the other guy? It was a. I can't remember. Somebody who became ATF director and Cash Patel became FBI director, right? They made a living off saying, hey, this organization is jacked up. Then they got put in charge of it, and we're going like, hey, dude, it's still freaking jacked up. What. What the fuck over.

[C]

Absolutely.

[E]

So, I mean, that's a fine argument. And I mean, but I've never heard anybody articulate, articulate why it's happening.

[D]

Well, I say this a lot, that chief of police and sheriffs, they believe that their first, their first thing, their first purpose in life is to protect their officers, their deputies. When it's not, it's to present, to be transparent. Present the truth. Whether it's good or bad, the truth. Protect your community against that one or two rogue officers. Right? Because law enforcement is a brutal job from the day you get into it to the day, day you leave. I called a meat grinder, I went in his lance and I came down a jumbled mess of Alphabet soup. Right? I mean, I remember calls from 12 years ago that I still dream about. But when chiefs start protecting individuals, that's when they fail their police departments because it's the good officers. You're 98%, because we're not pizza delivery guys. We don't get to deliver one burnt pizza. And all of a sudden Washington, Oregon, Alabama, New York all hates pizza delivery guys, right? But you screw up one thing in Minnesota or perceivably screw something up, every cop in the entire nation is now criticized for that. So when chiefs protect one individuals, they're failing their entire profession. And that's what I'm trying to preach.

[B]

Would you agree? And I know you're going to go into. But when you make it to the level that you were at, you're not supposed to leave. You're supposed to stay part of that system that everybody and brushes all the stuff under the rug. They're never supposed to lose a Lance Fisher.

[D]

I was the next chief.

[B]

You were supposed to stay and stay corrupt and let that continue to go on.

[E]

And I don't think he was ever corrupt.

[C]

I don't like that.

[B]

Well, stay corrupt. Stay corrupt with them. Like he didn't is what I'm saying. He was supposed to.

[C]

You weren't supposed to buck the system.

[B]

You were supposed to. You were supposed to stay in line and go, oh, we're brushing all this under the rug. We're gonna. Okay, hey, Lance, we're gonna be the next chief, right? You know, he got you. This is okay that you're like, wait a second, that's not okay.

[D]

But had I stayed, I probably would have been just the same.

[B]

And that's what I mean when I said what I said, because you would have been conditioned to continue so.

[D]

Because from day one, you talk, you know, you listen to all. Every chief that's ever sworn in their officers. First thing, talk about, welcome to the family. Because you got your family.

[C]

They have the meeting.

[D]

Yeah, welcome.

[C]

Welcome to the family. That's them putting in your head, hey, don't ever leave us, because you.

[D]

And you can't. What goes on in your house stays in your house.

[C]

Right.

[D]

And then you. Then you get hit with the thin blue lie.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Thin blue lie audits. So you get hit with the thin blue line. Right. You can't speak out about it, you know, And. And that's why, if you see my. I turn it upside down. Because we have a profession that's in distress right now because of failed leadership from the top. And I was a part of that. I don't hide the fact that I was a deputy chief and I was a part of a failed system. And had I become the chief, the system would have completely failed because I was. I was. I grew up with. Inside the Palmy Police Department. And that's why I'm demanding an outside chief. And my. My day changed when I sat down with Maury Jo and I told him, I'm struggling mentally. I will not be the next chief here. And he said, I'm sorry, you're. You're not gonna be part of my secession plan. His secession plan. Then I don't need you as a deputy chief. That's where the tides turned on me.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

So we have the same problem in the military, by the way.

[B]

Absolutely.

[E]

It's the exact same problem. Guys that start out as, you know, platoon leaders and privates, they move up, they become the command sergeant major. They become general officers. And now they're a part of a system that is very powerful, that takes care of itself, but doesn't take care of the organization and the mission that it actually has. You know, I mean, like, I can go on and on and on about that. This is. Is a systemic problem, not just within law enforcement. It's in the United States.

[C]

The beautiful thing about federal agencies or the military is that when you move up in rank, you go to a different spot. And that's a very, very easy way to keep corruption.

[D]

Absolutely.

[C]

And shit like that to a. To a dull roar. Because you become. You're up for first sergeant in the army. Guess what? You're going across the country, baby, orders, just like the feds. You now you're moving to a supervisory role. You're not staying in the office you came up in.

[E]

Dude, they wouldn't even let squad leaders stay in the same company. Like, if you were a team leader.

[C]

Like, hey, Like I said, you're going.

[E]

Over to Alpha Company.

[C]

That keeps corruption to a dull roar.

[D]

We did. Even in law enforcement, when you get promoted, rarely do you ever stay on that same shift because you worked alongside those guys. They've seen what you've done, you've seen what they've done.

[C]

Human nature.

[D]

But yet when we go to a. But when we want to promote a chief. Right, And I'm glad you brought that up, because I am. I didn't even recognize that. So we make it a point when we promote sergeants and lieutenants to move them off their shift, put them in a place where they could hold other people accountable that aren't their friends. But yet when we. But when chiefs retire, they want to promote from within. Why? Because I don't know why. There's the law enforcement culture. Chiefs believe that they fail if they have to go to an outside chief. But you. But that's. I mean, that's a great point. When we promote, we always move somebody because we want.

[B]

There's a.

[D]

We don't want to put them in.

[B]

There's a facade in law for all those silly initials that go with your name, like fb. Do you think the FBI made you a better. That the class made you a better person?

[D]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

Absolutely not.

[B]

But we. We're told. And then when you see a job qualification come out for people who said, why don't you run for chief? Because you don't have all those classes that mean absolutely nothing when all you need is integrity and really common sense. The applications to say, do you have integrity and do you have common sense? And that pretty much should be who's in charge of an agency? But when you start colluding with all these government initials and program, you have to go to this and you have to go to that class to be, you know what basic. I have a GED Basic of a GD and not even a college degree. I had a very successful career working informants, doing stuff because I have common sense and I know how. I know what I was doing. I didn't need a class or some FBI leadership academy to teach me to not treat people like.

[D]

And that's what. How do you treat people?

[B]

That's what it comes down to, really.

[D]

And if you look at. And so when we talk about use of forces. So one of the things I try to get my supervisors do. Look what happened the five minutes before that use of force. Did we create that. Did my officer create that use of force? Were they just a complete asshole? And they escalated it because that's what you see. And then what call did they come from? Did human factors. So. And we always want to focus on it was justified. But we never look at the five to 10 minutes before that you force before we punch that person in the face or before we chase and tase them. Did we. Do we let them walk around the parking lot or did we contain them? Do we handcuff them and contain them like we should have?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Do we create the very scenario that look now looks bad?

[B]

Look at the one I just put out for Mini River. A guy gets smacked in the face. Yeah. And that guy's allowed to run and yell and act crazy for.

[D]

Right. And so.

[B]

Or you, you're like you said walk right up and just.

[D]

Yeah, but that goes down to training. That comes down to training and talking to people. And that's what it comes down to treat, just treating people right.

[B]

No class you can go to to learn integrity and just that, that interaction skills that takes to be a good cop or a good leader. And you know, that's where elections are dangerous, man. Anybody could run for sheriff and win.

[C]

So we're, we're going to wrap this up. But where do you have a YouTube channel?

[D]

I do.

[C]

What's it called?

[D]

It's called Thin Blue Lie Audits. Oh, so I have that.

[C]

I didn't know that was your YouTube.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Yeah, that's my YouTube and Facebook as well. So it's, it's like I said, it's in the baby stages, the infancy.

[C]

Are you gonna go with us with me and Mike when we physically start going to these places and he's already started.

[B]

He's ahead of us.

[D]

I took a two and a half hour trip to Mascot and they loved it. They loved me up there. City manager welcomed me in. Then the next day I get a phone call from the city. Another employee says the city manager is well aware of his hiring history because you can Google search him. He was fired from Columbia, South Carolina for 5, 8 use of forces in five months. But yeah, absolutely. And like I said, I'm in the infancy stages. But you know, I went to my city council for 15 months. You know, one time I got. When I showed a video of the chief berating Melbourne cops threatening them. It's in a police report, official documents. My city council berated me for 12 minutes. Literally got challenged by the deputy mayor run for election. I'd challenge it, blah. And then a couple weeks go, I, I got. The chief gets up there and he's talking about rebuke. You in the name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. And I denounce that on video. Oh, absolutely.

[C]

Is it on your YouTube right now?

[D]

Not yet, but again, it takes me about nine hours to do a three hour clip. So. But I'm going to put it all together because I got so much stuff and that's why they hate me. And, and you know, I got tired of, of the city council just ignoring it. So I was like, you know what, maybe I'm wrong. And, and that's a lot of it is am I so jaded with law enforcement, with my own police department that I'm looking at things all messed up. And so that's what, that's what I'm out there. And I'm just trying to put it out there because unfortunately I do have a different perspective that you don't see where you know, when you, when you do 20, 25 years in law enforcement, you make it a deputy chief. They expect that you, they've groomed you well. They've the thin blue line, they've wrapped you around family, they put their arms around you. But you know, when my chief threw me out of the building because I was outspoken about some use of force incidents, I said, you're not going to treat me like everybody else, brother. I'm not just going to walk away. And he, and he and I, and I've kept my promise. That's how it is.

[B]

I didn't get a chance to say that, but I think they realized I kind of said that on the way out as well. I mean, you got it.

[C]

Little do they know I say this all the time. Copville was created. Created their own enemy. So this week we got the. Obviously the squad cast. Kona8 if you guys can go give Counterculture Inc. A YouTube a follow because there is going to be some changes in the next couple months with everything. Good changes though. Lots of good shows on there. We are looking to broadcast more. That's on the, that's on the, the meeting table here shortly. So yeah, thanks for tuning into the broadcast. Go to thin blue live YouTube channel for Lance's. I'm excited to see this. I hope you get it up in.

[B]

Next reason it's up.

[D]

I like I said I got nine views so that'd be awesome.

[C]

I want to see the one where the guy rebukes you in the name of Jesus. Oh that. That's a clip right there. I'm telling you. Social media is a tool. Clip that.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, I will.

[B]

Even if you don't know Jeremy as an army. Just clip it.

[C]

Just clip it. All right, guys.

[D]

I appreciate it, guys. Thanks for.

[C]

Thanks for joining it. JV team for life.