10/30/2025 Honoring Deputy Nunez, New Court Attire, Cops Kill Monkeys...

Summary

The Antihero Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Honoring Deputy Nunez, New Court Attire, Cops Kill Monkeys...
Date: October 30, 2025
Host: Mike (The Antihero Podcast)
Co-Host: Mike
Guest: Gary Windheim (Retired Captain, Eustace Police Department)
Occasional Panel: Jimmy

Episode Overview

This Halloween-themed episode of The Antihero Podcast is "all truth" and delivers a candid, sometimes irreverent, look at recent events particularly impacting law enforcement, first responders, and veterans. The core theme centers around honoring the fallen Deputy Andrew Nunez while simultaneously exploring the complexities, challenges, and absurdities encountered in police and military service. The episode also includes guest Gary Windheim sharing his experience with critical incidents, shootings, and the lackluster institutional mental health response faced by many officers.

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Episode Breakdown

1. Honoring Deputy Andrew Nunez (Starts [02:35])

• Discussion: Details surrounding the recent tragic shooting of Deputy Andrew Nunez, San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department.
  • Deputy Nunez responded to a domestic threat call and was shot upon arrival.
  • His killer was apprehended after a high-speed chase, aided by an off-duty officer.
• Important Quotes:
  • "You are already behind the curb in something that's going on and could be very dangerous to you. And unfortunately, this fucking coward was able to take the life of Deputy Nunez." – Host Mike ([06:07])
  • "I just wish there was more of a separation because the guy took off on the bike, led with a California highway patrol on a high speed pursuit." – Host Mike ([05:01])
• Notable Moment: Concerns that Deputy Nunez’s heroism is overshadowed by news of the chase and the killer’s capture.
• Charity Info:
  • Legitimate donation link provided: PORAC.org – Peace Officers Research Association of California ([13:38])
  • "Donations is paramount in something like this. Because yes, life insurance will pay out. But how long does it take?" – Host Mike ([14:45])

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2. Broader Law Enforcement Reflections ([15:40])

• On Domestic Violence Calls:

  • "Well, we have several shootings from domestic calls and you know, tensions are high. People do irrational things." – Co-host Mike ([07:32])
  • All co-hosts stress the unpredictability and dangers of “routine” police calls.

• On Benefits & Division in Society:

  • Heated discussion about public assistance programs, with concerns about dependency and social division.
  • "It's become expected... Expectations." – Gary Windheim ([17:14])
  • "It was never meant to be a lifestyle." – Gary Windheim ([18:57])

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3. "Cops Killing Monkeys": The Mississippi Monkey Incident ([20:04])

• Story Recap:
  • Truck carrying 21 test monkeys crashes; early, incorrect reports say monkeys are infected (COVID, Hep C, herpes).
  • Deputies on-site, misinformed about infection risk, shoot five monkeys.
  • Later, the university denies the monkeys were infectious.
  • Three monkeys escape into the wild.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • "Turns out so the monkey though the monkeys did not have any diseases, and the sheriff corrected the record later today..." – Host Mike ([21:20])
  • "I'm not shooting a monkey." – Co-Host Mike ([23:20])
• Segment Tone: Mix of dark humor and incredulity over media coverage and agency overreaction.

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4. Use-of-Force Cases: The Boiling Water Cop ([29:07])

• Incident Recap:
  • Police respond to a mentally ill woman; during the encounter, she throws boiling water at an officer and is shot and killed.
  • Debated whether lethal force was justified.
• Perspective:
  • General agreement it was an avoidable tragedy; could have been handled by retreating/disengaging.
• Standout Quotes:
  • "If you have the opportunity to get out, get out." – Co-Host Mike ([33:04])
  • "This old lady in her moomoo and slippers... I'm out right now." – Jimmy ([34:37])
• Discussion Point: Consequences for officers, bad training, and societal expectations.

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5. Critical Incidents & PTSD: Guest Gary Windheim’s Stories ([39:11, 43:35, 75:06])

• PTSD in Law Enforcement:

  • Gary discusses being involved in several shootings (including out-of-jurisdiction incidents and being shot himself).
  • Sheds light on the emotional and psychological toll these incidents have on officers and the inadequate institutional support available post-shooting.
    • "It's not an easy thing to do... but it sounds good until you're the guy that does it." – Gary ([56:44])
    • "I didn't feel the love from the department... It's apartment love." – Gary ([56:28])
  • Lack of Aftercare:
    • "Nobody came to my house. Nobody called my wife. She sat on the back porch until I came home." – Gary ([62:59])
  • How Departments Should Respond:
    • Consensus that aftercare is overlooked, with leadership often unprepared to support officers or families in the aftermath.

• Notable Quotes about Critical Incidents:

  • "We train on use of force incidents up until the point that you pull the trigger. And then we go in scenario, and then it gets..." – Gary ([58:40])
  • "They don't train on how to respond to your worst day." – Co-Host Mike ([60:21])

[Gary’s Shooting Stories Begin ~43:35, 75:06]

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6. Levity & Satire: Detroit Underwear Cop ([84:02])

• Segment: Detroit PD officer appears in Zoom court wearing only a shirt and boxers; gets called out by judge.
• Clip Reaction:
  • "How do you go on court...with your pants off?" – Host Mike ([85:01])
  • Panel laughs at both the absurdity and the officer’s candor.

---

7. International Tension & Military Analysis ([88:20])

• Topics:
  • Trump, Russia, and China nuclear posturing.
  • The South China Sea incident (two US aircraft fall from the sky, laser warfare rumors).
  • Triad explanation (ICBMs, bombers, subs).
  • Historical take on deterrence; military anecdotes and possibilities of new global warfare technology.
• Quote:
  • "China claimed that they could have a nuclear weapon in any city in America in 20 minutes." – Co-Host Mike ([90:35])
  • "I think what we're actually seeing is...mutually assured destruction." – Jimmy ([95:01])

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Notable Quotes (With Timestamps)

• "You are already behind the curb in something that's going on and could be very dangerous to you. And unfortunately this fucking coward was able to take the life of Deputy Nunez." – Host Mike ([06:07])
• "It's become expected." – Gary Windheim ([17:14])
• "If you have the opportunity to get out, get out." – Co-Host Mike ([33:04])
• "It's not an easy thing to do... but it sounds cool until you're the guy that does it." – Gary W. ([56:44])
• "Nobody came to my house. Nobody called my wife. She sat on the back porch until I came home." – Gary W. ([62:59])
• "How do you go on court...with your pants off?" – Host Mike ([85:01])
• "I think what we're actually seeing is...mutually assured destruction." – Jimmy ([95:01])

---

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:35] – Deputy Nunez memorial & case rundown
• [20:04] – Cops Kill Monkeys (monkey truck incident)
• [29:07] – "Boiling water cop" use of force debate
• [39:11] – Gary's first shooting story (out of jurisdiction; pedophile)
• [75:06] – Gary describes being shot in the line of duty
• [84:02] – Detroit underwear cop Zoom court segment
• [88:20] – Trump, China, and international power posturing

---

Overall Tone

• Language and Style: Unfiltered, irreverent, and plainly honest.
• Mood: A balance of tribute, frustration, black humor, and camaraderie.
• Panel Dynamic: Candid peer-to-peer conversation, seasoned with military and police anecdotes, policy criticism, and gallows humor.

---

Summary for Non-Listeners

In this episode, The Antihero Podcast team pays tribute to slain Deputy Andrew Nunez, scrutinizes the way police shootings are covered and processed both by the media and within law enforcement culture, and shares first-hand stories of trauma and survival from the front lines. The banter is frank and occasionally off-color, but the insights into police procedure, trauma, and the reality behind the badge are sobering. The hosts also don’t shy away from poking fun at the absurdities of modern policing—like attending court in underwear or being ordered to shoot monkeys based on rumor—reminding listeners that behind every tragedy or viral news byte, there are real people facing complicated, dangerous, often thankless situations.

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For further insight:

• Check out Gary Windheim's extended interview on “Locked Up With Copville” (Cobalogy YouTube).
• To donate to Deputy Nunez’s family: https://porac.org
• For more, tune in to the Night Shift on the Counterculture YouTube, Thursday nights at 8pm.

Transcript

[Host Mike]

Sateen for life. Morning. It's Thursday, October 30th. It's our Halloween episode. The AJR broadcast is here to bring you the best in information, entertainment relevant to the first responder veteran community. And a lot's happened in the last three days since Monday. We've got everything from the boiling water cop. He was convicted. Yes. The Detroit underwear cop, the cops killing monkeys, Trump testing nukes, and of course, the story of Deputy Nunez out of San Bernardino County. Jimmy. Jimmy is going to be here, but he's going to be 20 minutes late due to traffic. I gave him the. I already gave him the nickname Jimmy the Joe.

[Co-host Mike]

Jimmy the Joe.

[Host Mike]

Jimmy the Joe.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

We have a special guest today.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, we have. You want to do self, Gary? Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

I'm Gary Windheim. More introduced.

[Host Mike]

Oh, Gary.

[Co-host Mike]

He was wandering the plaza out front.

[Gary Windheim]

We were looking.

[Co-host Mike]

Jimmy was late. So we found it. No. Well, I feel bad.

[Gary Windheim]

I didn't bring my sunglasses or. So I don't know what to do. I'm Gary Windheim, retired captain from the Eustace Police Department. I did almost 27 years.

[Host Mike]

God.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, he was on my episode Wednesday, if you want to check that out. On Locked up with Copville. On the Cobalogy YouTube, Gary talks about his entire career and a common theme which is PTSD and the agency not being very helpful when it comes to ptsd. Throughout the episode, we'll kind of highlight some of the things Gary was involved in because they're pretty wild. Man.

[Jimmy]

Someone misses Jimmy already.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, yeah, he'll be here. He'll be here.

[Co-host Mike]

Maybe, maybe, maybe. Don't forget our Patreon. Please join Patreon. We're very active in there, and today is Thursday. So tonight on the counterculture YouTube and anti hero broadcast, YouTube. Later tonight, you'll have the night shift, which is the boy for the boys tonight, laid back at the other studio, breaking down videos, shooting the shit from 8 to about 10, 10:30. So make sure you tune in tonight on YouTube as well.

[Host Mike]

Somebody says our microphones are louder than normal. Louis, did you mess with something?

[Co-host Mike]

He's always fixing something.

[Host Mike]

Y' all just lower it, huh?

[Co-host Mike]

He'll just lower it.

[Host Mike]

Okay.

[Co-host Mike]

He's pushing buttons. He does whatever he wants.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

Interesting.

[Host Mike]

There you go.

[Co-host Mike]

All right.

[Host Mike]

Better. Let's see, let's see. All right. Phil texted me and said, hey, man, Mike's pretty loud, but I'll wait for his. For his feedback. So I will kick off the episode with Officer Nunez because what happened was there was two really good stories to COVID Positive and law Enforcement and they happen to be the same story because. And when I say good, I mean meaningful. That needed to be covered. So the first one was Officer Nunez responded to a man with a gun threatening a female. And I'm gonna read it. Deputy Sheriff Andrew Nunez was shot and killed near a residence in the 12300 block of Hollywood Holly Hollyhock Drive in Rancho Cucamonga. He was responding to a call of a woman being threatened by an armed man in Rancho Cucamonga. When Deputy Nunes arrived, he, the armed man shot him in the head and fled on a motorcycle. Deputy Nun was immediately transported to Arrowhead Regional Medical center in Colton where despite life saving efforts, he succumbed to his injuries. He had served with the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department for six years. He has survived by his expected wife, two year old daughter, his mother and four siblings. So the most tragic of tragic and the reason why I say it's, it's two, it's two things is because very rarely do we get to see a, what would you call that, the capture of a cop killer immediately after it happens. But the guy who murdered Deputy Nunez, and we don't have any details yet, I don't think there's anything out there yet about exactly what happened. Like a actual breakdown from the chief explaining, you know, timestamps and what happened. But you know, he was murdered and immediately the guy who killed him took off on a bike. This is where the second story hits because this Deputy Nunez's death and his heroism is kind of being overshadowed by another great story which was the capture of his killer. And I want to make it clear that, you know, we should be giving because when I researched this, it was all about the takedown. And I get it, it's, it's in its own way, the off duty cop was a fucking hero too.

[Co-host Mike]

Yes.

[Host Mike]

I just wish there was more of a separation because the guy took off on the bike, led with a California highway patrol on a high speed pursuit.

[Gary Windheim]

I'm pretty sure probably mostly everybody in that area. Exactly.

[Host Mike]

A cop killer. You got people probably coming from every, every region of California. They, they get behind him, he's running in an off duty cop who apparently is tracking the situation. Probably had his radio one squared away. Guy just merged over and caused the motorcyclist to wreck. Had a set of nut sack like none other did. Real cop work seems to be backed by administration for this one due to the fact that lethal 4 probably authorized due to him being a threat to the public and they were able to capture him and now he is in the hospital being, you know, given his rightful treatment that he apparently deserves. So. But just wanted to give, shed some light on Andrew Nunes Nunez and his, and his heroism because you know, that's what cops do every single day. I can guarantee you. I know and I, I would imagine he responded to that call just like any of us would. You have, you have your radio going off, you have your in car going off with the boys, chatting it up about what's going on. You have the computer blowing up with Updates. And about 50 of that is information that you need and you're rolling up and you don't know what's going on. It's vague information. And that's when you're a responder. When you're a first responder, you are responding. You are already behind the curb in something that's going on and could be very dangerous to you. And unfortunately this fucking coward was able to take the life of Deputy Nunez. So we're looking for a way to give. The problem is, is that the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Office says on Instagram that it's the links in the bio to donate. Yet it's not in the bio and their website doesn't have anything up. And if you Google the GoFundMe, it. It's not. I can't verify that it's him. It doesn't. There's things about it that are kind of red flaggish. I could be wrong. It was a couple hours ago. So if anybody out there does know how to donate to the family, whether it's GoFundMe or something set up by the department, let us know. So we can put it on blast and we can donate.

[Co-host Mike]

Absolutely. Yep. And it's, you know, just the regular call. That's what everybody goes to. Regular little dispute between how many times.

[Host Mike]

I've gone to call like that.

[Co-host Mike]

Well, I mean, honestly, in our, in my, in my area we have several shootings from domestic calls and you know, tensions are high. People do irrational things and, and that's where, you know, those, everybody goes like, oh, here's another argument between a, you know, we're just gonna show up and, and here's another call and it's unfortunate that probably ambush, probably had no chance to respond. Nothing, you know.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah, I'm not seeing him put out anything about the actual shooting. And if it was a. Yeah, I mean they're, they're being kind of quiet on that, which I understand they got the whole investigation to do and it leads to what you said that the, it's being kind of overshadowed by what the off duty officer did. Well, that's, there's the video of that. I mean that's the flash 150 mile an hour chase.

[Co-host Mike]

Well, and if any, and I'll say this, if anything it, I know it's a separate but it puts some positive on a really bad situation. So maybe for like mental health, like hey, we, we caught the bad guy and that's, that's, you know, let's. Yeah, he's, he passed and obviously we don't know him. He's, you know, in our profession and we care about him. But for his local people that are obviously mourning and they're having, you know, if you have to plan funerals and young kids, all that there's probably like, that's the good right now that's keeping their minds from.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

Going deep and dark.

[Host Mike]

Because typically we see, we see the marshals, you know, a couple days later with, I mean, know what the. I don't even think we're privy to what the marshals and the Marshall task force across the country are able to utilize to get information and finding people held up in shacks in the woods. But that's typically what we see a couple days later, maybe a day later, two days later, we see some bearded warriors dragging some piece of out in handcuffs and then we get to see the slain officers. Handcuffs put on the bad guy. Which is a tradition in law enforcement that. I'm sorry for being cynical, but I'm sure that's going to end up being not fair and we're not gonna be able do that anymore. But traditionally we put the slain officer's handcuffs on the bad guy and that's just how it goes. So yes, you're right. I think it's, it's better we caught him in real. It kind of, it kind of gives hope.

[Co-host Mike]

So yeah, the marshals get involved, but now your local agency is looking for a guy that killed so many things. No, your mind is, I mean, you know, you've been involved in critical incidents, your mind is in a thousand places. You lost your buddy, you're thinking about his family and now you gotta sack up and go do the hard work. But you can't tell me like going and knowing the guy's gonna be armed and probably wanting to shoot out, but you're mourning your, your buddy all at one. All those emotions that nobody puts in the, you know, that go in the blender. For us as cops, it's now you're out hunting this guy and Then you have to make sure you don't make a fucking dumb decision like I'm gonna smoke this dude when I see it. Like, you know, I'm saying, yeah, it's.

[Gary Windheim]

Hard enough when you're already, you know, in that mix, going in with a clean head and the only thing you're thinking about is, you know, what you had discussion with your wife before you left work or you know, what your kids are doing in school. But now you've also got the weight of your buddy, your co worker, your friend who is gone.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

You know, and the realization of that could happen to any of us at any time.

[Host Mike]

But so yeah, this, this episode is obviously dedicated deputy Andrew Nunez and his family and his expecting wife and his, his two year old and his future child. Give us shout outs to our sponsors. HP TRT. You go to hp-trt.com use promo code HERO and save 20 on your testosterone and other supplements like peptides, G, GLSP, GSLP to whatever the, the one, the, the one that, the rave that everybody's using to lose fat. They've got it all. You go do your own blood work if you want. From the VA quest. LabCorp doesn't matter. You get it. Make sure they test your test and your just. What do you call that? The other opposite.

[Co-host Mike]

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[Host Mike]

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[Co-host Mike]

So I got the link. Direct link to donate Deputy Nunes sent in by a listener is porac p o r-a c dot org that's Peace Officers Research association of California. P o r dash dot org you click on that takes you right to Deputy Nunes.

[Host Mike]

Let you know. Copy and paste and put it.

[Co-host Mike]

I said it. There's that girl in the. In the inbox.

[Host Mike]

Go ahead and pull that up.

[Co-host Mike]

Can you go the Instagram DMS of From me cop bill to anti Hero. You'll see the.

[Host Mike]

When he just threw Lewis out of his routine, man, he just looked at you and gave you the death Star.

[Co-host Mike]

Trying to get what he was getting. A sip of water.

[Host Mike]

Hey Louis, how do you drink water with your mask? Do you cut a hole in it? No, I just.

[Gary Windheim]

Louis is.

[Co-host Mike]

I am advocating for Lewis to be a character on the. Like a full time. Actually is full time now.

[Host Mike]

Character Louis producer. What's his name? You guys let us know what you guys.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, click on that link right there. If we can get that up.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, we're.

[Co-host Mike]

There you go there. It's on the screen.

[Host Mike]

No, I'm just gonna put window capture.

[Co-host Mike]

Wait, I'll just do whatever you want. Lewis, we're just here.

[Host Mike]

This is your show.

[Co-host Mike]

Tell me when it's up. Is it up?

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

Okay, so here's the link. Here's the donation for Deputy Nunes right there. Website Porak Porac P O R-A C.org please donate. We're gonna donate and the goal is 100 000. But we need to blow that away.

[Host Mike]

I mean because here's the thing with the you're good donations is paramount in something like this. Because yes, life insurance will pay out. But how long does it take? Life insurance?

[Gary Windheim]

Right.

[Host Mike]

It takes a Minute groceries, grieving. I guarantee you his wife can't do anything right now. No, she's got family and friends support. True. But, you know, bills rack up. She's having people come in and help pay the electric bill, the rent. She's a. She's mourning the loss of her husband and the father of her children. So, you know, having this type of funding really, really helps. So go ahead. And if you can give a little bit, it's very. It won't go unnoticed, trust me. Absolutely, man. What do you guys want to talk about first? Let's do some. The only really reflections that we have since Monday is the SNAP ebt, because it seems to be slowly progressing where people are like, this could be a problem.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

I don't think it's come through yet. VA benefits came through, did they? Yeah, yesterday. Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

No, I think you must get paid early. You got a different bank.

[Host Mike]

I got usa.

[Co-host Mike]

That's why.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

I don't get mine till tomorrow. Yeah. And then, you know, you have two polar opposite sides of this. You got, you know, people threatening to loot and burn and steal and like, it's a right. It's like you're taking away a paycheck and it's not a paycheck.

[Jimmy]

It is a.

[Co-host Mike]

It's a benefit to assist, to help assist. It's not. It's not a form of life. It's not a.

[Host Mike]

Because there's already. There's already videos going out there of people saying, like, we're rallying at this day and this time we are going to steal groceries. We are going to rob people of their groceries. Like, it. It's not. It's just the. It's so hard to talk about this without.

[Co-host Mike]

It's because we're told not to talk about it. It's not hard to talk about it.

[Host Mike]

I think that everybody realized that we were right down the middle. What we said was very truthful. We weren't. We did. Me and Mike gave our opinions personally about who we believe should be getting government assistance. We're not sitting here saying, take it away from what everybody. Mike said, I don't want people starving on the street. That's not what I want. No. I said, I don't want single moms working two jobs and three kids suffering. No, that's what that's for. But when you're born into a generation generationally, and you got Section 8 housing, you got unemployment, you got food stamps, like, it's creating a massive problem because we just started giving it out to people.

[Gary Windheim]

It's become expected.

[Host Mike]

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

Yes.

[Host Mike]

Nailed it. Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

That's what I'm saying.

[Gary Windheim]

Expectations.

[Co-host Mike]

Not a. You don't you know. It's not a God given right. Not Social Security. Was. That was when you worked your whole life.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

And contributed taxes your whole life. There was something for you when you were older and not able to work.

[Host Mike]

Do we even get that anymore?

[Gary Windheim]

Is that still got them open.

[Co-host Mike]

I put 62. I'm getting it as soon as you can get it. I don't care.

[Gary Windheim]

There's no guarantee it'll be there when I'm 63.

[Host Mike]

Exactly.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

So.

[Co-host Mike]

But that was something they designed as a. It's a retirement plan fit for working your life. It's a retirement plan you're born into free everything. Somebody's got to pay the bill. And that creates diversity. Division. That creates division.

[Host Mike]

Yep.

[Co-host Mike]

And no matter what with that division there's going to be conflict. So there's. It just creates a conflict where half America or whatever the percentage are. Some portion of America is going to.

[Jimmy]

Say I've worked my ass off two.

[Co-host Mike]

Jobs, you know, to keep everything. And one half America just doesn't do one part. Doesn't do anything to. Except get free benefits. No matter what your feelings are. One is gonna. Why am I working so hard when somebody else doesn't? That's. That's at Publix. That's at any job. That's at the bakery. That's on a lawn service. If the lawn guy is. One guy's off and the other guy's doing all. They're gonna argue about somebody not doing the right amount of work.

[Gary Windheim]

That is pulling your weight.

[Co-host Mike]

Exactly.

[Gary Windheim]

Yep. That's why I'm getting what I'm getting.

[Jimmy]

Correct.

[Gary Windheim]

And I'm doing all the work.

[Co-host Mike]

Correct. I don't. I feel bad that they can't eat. I don't want people to go hungry.

[Jimmy]

Like I said.

[Co-host Mike]

But it's not fair for one group of people or somebody to do a portion of the work and the other people not have to do anything and get it for free.

[Gary Windheim]

It was never meant to be a lifestyle. No.

[Host Mike]

Don't let him sneak in, Lewis. Don't let him.

[Co-host Mike]

Sneak him out. Call him out.

[Host Mike]

Put him on camera.

[Co-host Mike]

How do I.

[Host Mike]

How do I.

[Gary Windheim]

This is my first time here. So I'm not supposed to. Am I announcing when people walk in? What's going on here?

[Host Mike]

Jimmy's got a five year old ear infection. He hasn't.

[Gary Windheim]

I mean they have treatment for that. You don't have to suffer for five years. Man.

[Co-host Mike]

We're here. We're here.

[Host Mike]

All right, Jimmy's here, everybody.

[Co-host Mike]

Viewership should go up now. Make the announcement. Jimmy's here because.

[Host Mike]

Where's your. Anna? Where's your costume? You forgot Tattoo, didn't you?

[Co-host Mike]

He's an average Joe with an ear infection.

[Host Mike]

Put your helmet on. That's what you get. We're gonna go. Army rules.

[Gary Windheim]

You forgot something.

[Host Mike]

You got to wear the helmet.

[Gary Windheim]

You're gonna have to do laps as well.

[Host Mike]

Where the.

[Jimmy]

We're gonna give you the pink rifle.

[Gary Windheim]

To hold.

[Jimmy]

All right?

[Co-host Mike]

You had a spare mask?

[Jimmy]

Well, the good news is we got tested. It's not Covid.

[Co-host Mike]

It's not a flu. You get bit by a monkey? Did you?

[Jimmy]

No.

[Gary Windheim]

Okay.

[Jimmy]

Did we cover that already?

[Host Mike]

No. Yeah, man, that. That's. Let's cover the monkeys. Okay, so it came out yesterday that a truckload of monkeys crashed. One would and one. And they were. They were. They had Covid. Hepatitis C. Hepatitis C. They had all these things. That one was on the loose.

[Gary Windheim]

Right now they're saying they didn't have.

[Host Mike]

I got it. I got it.

[Gary Windheim]

Come on.

[Host Mike]

This isn't my first broadcast. That's what came out yesterday, correct?

[Co-host Mike]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Host Mike]

That's what came out.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

So we're all waiting to see if, you know, Resident Evil is gonna start here or, you know, the Walking Dead. And so I found tmz. They compiled everything. I think Fox News kind of stopped following it once they realized how ridicul it was, but. Mississippi monkeys. Cops shoot kill 5 on site based off bad disease info. The mystery behind why five monkeys were killed by police after a truck carrying the primates overturned in Mississippi has been solved. Jasper county sheriff tells us he contacted one of the deputies who responded to Tuesday's truck accident along a highway in rural Heidelberg, and he asked the deputy what kind of threat the monkeys posed to the public. Johnson said the deputy had two truck occupants contact their supervisor, who warned. The cargo contained 21 test monkeys infected with COVID herpes and hepatitis C, and as a result, they needed to be handled with protective gear. The supervisor also recommended the monkeys be put down, and that's why police destroyed the animals, according to Johnson, who described the monkeys as aggravated and aggressive towards people. Turns out so the monkey though the monkeys did not have any diseases, and the sheriff corrected the record later today after Tulane University, where the primates were transported from, issued a statement saying the animals were not infectious. In addition to the five dead monkeys, Johnson said 13 others survived the crash and were corralled by the authorities, while three others Escaped into the wild.

[Co-host Mike]

You know what?

[Gary Windheim]

This week.

[Jimmy]

You know what this reminds me of?

[Host Mike]

Talking to the mic.

[Jimmy]

Oh, you know what this reminds me of? Freaking the Dark Knight Rises. No, they expect one of us. In the record.

[Host Mike]

Johnson said the authorities are now looking for the three monkeys in the dense wood, laying down traps with food in them. Johnson also said he's concerned the monkeys might end up in someone's backyard and bite a person trying to capture them. Meanwhile, here's the thing. The university's denying everything. They're saying, yo, the monkeys were not being transpired. Transported by Tulane, not owned by Tulane, and not to lay in Tulane's custody.

[Co-host Mike]

Because you know why? Because they're abusing animals optics. And they don't know. They don't want you to know that they do inhumane testing on these poor animals. Five monkeys got killed for no reason. And it's. I fucking hate it, dude.

[Host Mike]

Well, do you? Okay, but you're saying. Do you. Okay, first off, I wouldn't have shot one consistent consensus to the room because. Because we went down the timeline. We said, oh, they're. They're infections. Oh, they're not infectious. It was a big mistake. Do you think they were actually infectious and they're trying to just be like the cops killed them. Fine. It. Let's just say it's not.

[Co-host Mike]

I think there needs to be more research done, but either way, I'm not shooting a monkey.

[Jimmy]

You're not.

[Host Mike]

What if it was patient zero and you can save them?

[Gary Windheim]

I'm dropping it.

[Co-host Mike]

Nope. Because I don't believe any of that.

[Gary Windheim]

I'm dropping.

[Co-host Mike]

There's no way you're just willy nilly down the street in a truck that's not well protected if you got some resident evil.

[Jimmy]

Disastrous world.

[Host Mike]

That's how the government works. The university is already trying to say it's not their fault. They had nothing to do with that.

[Co-host Mike]

They don't want the investigation coming to. What are you guys doing to these things? It's terrible, dude.

[Host Mike]

It's terrible, dude.

[Co-host Mike]

It's terrible, dude.

[Gary Windheim]

All right, you get the call truck over on its side on a highway. You pull up and there's monkeys running around everybody.

[Co-host Mike]

You put them down.

[Host Mike]

Here's my gun.

[Jimmy]

Your circus.

[Co-host Mike]

No, it's your circus coming right for me.

[Host Mike]

I'm not.

[Jimmy]

I'm not a. I'm not bite either.

[Host Mike]

They're little.

[Co-host Mike]

I've seen them in Honduras and you go pet them and stuff. They're not.

[Host Mike]

Unless they're infectious.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah, they weren't test monkeys.

[Jimmy]

Okay?

[Co-host Mike]

If they get near You. We have. What state was that?

[Jimmy]

Mississippi.

[Co-host Mike]

Mississippi. Every motherfucker's got a gun in Mississippi. Hey, boy, I saw this.

[Host Mike]

I just comes near you. Of a cop beating one with a baton.

[Gary Windheim]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Host Mike]

That would be. No, no, no.

[Jimmy]

I mean, we've got monkeys down here. We have herpes. Monkeys that are Silver Springs.

[Host Mike]

How do we know? Yeah, there's just footage.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah, they just put the videos out on there.

[Host Mike]

And no one could get the story straight on those monkeys because the story I heard was that. That. And this is true. They filmed the 1940s, black and white Tarzan there. And they brought it. And there was no rules back then. So when they were done filming, they were like, release the monkeys. They release the monkeys. And that's why they're in Florida. There's a lot of people that say, that's not true. That's just a man you go to.

[Co-host Mike]

I go on a cruise. You go to Honduras. They let them out, but they let them out and they know to come back at, like, for work on time. They know to come back to the. To the cages at like 9am every day because they know the tourists are coming. They're gonna feed them. They're very intelligent. So they. At the end of the night in Honduras, where you go visit, they just open the cages and they all go.

[Host Mike]

Out in the wild.

[Co-host Mike]

And then in the morning, they know I want to eat. I'm going to show back up at that.

[Jimmy]

Let me go get locked in the cage.

[Co-host Mike]

And they come in. And the other thing, those are tourist monkeys.

[Gary Windheim]

These are. These are test monkeys.

[Host Mike]

These are Mississippi test monkeys, man.

[Co-host Mike]

Let them go.

[Jimmy]

I mean. I mean, given what we went through during COVID Lock them up. You'd think that, like, any monkey that was possibly infected with anything would be like, all right, guys, armed guards. Yes. Like, you know, we. We got to be ready to put them down if. If this truck, if anything happens, you.

[Co-host Mike]

Would think it would be steel reinforced.

[Jimmy]

Oh, yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

Bed that only fuel could melt, like, something like that. You would think that. Yeah.

[Host Mike]

This is the government there. That university is being contracted by the government. And those truck drivers would be a. Contracted by the university. Everybody is able to go like this up the chain. Hey, man, that's not what. God. Lowest bidder don't make a big scene.

[Co-host Mike]

No, they did.

[Host Mike]

Well, do you think the truck flipping was actually part of the plan?

[Co-host Mike]

No. Mississippi.

[Gary Windheim]

I don't think the truck driver even knew what he was hauling. Yeah, you hook up the trailer and you go to here yeah, but the.

[Host Mike]

Truck driver is the one that gave the cops the fact that they were infectious. That came from the truck.

[Gary Windheim]

Well, yeah. He made a phone call when he flipped over. Hey, I just crashed the truck. They're like, you know what you're carrying?

[Co-host Mike]

He made up that story. He called somebody, and they were like, bro, those monkeys are infected. You need to wreck, like, you know, the guy at the other end of the phone is just trying to come up with any story to make him hustle.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, that poor cop called a supervisor, Ms. sarge. Apparently, the monkeys are infectious, and that's.

[Co-host Mike]

They got hippo Titus. I mean, put them down, Chuck. There's a hippo tightness around, too.

[Jimmy]

I mean, so. I mean, if you were on the call, though, I mean, like, I'm. I'm going like, I'm not animal Control.

[Co-host Mike]

I'm not shooting it.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

I'm like, I'm not. I'm not blowing away some little.

[Co-host Mike]

Tell you my worst. My worst animal. Can I tell you my worst animal story? We had a bunch of hogs get ran over by a truck.

[Host Mike]

I thought it was gonna be your dog. Pass.

[Co-host Mike]

No, that was it. I'm talking about witnessing, like, this type of. So we got hogs running over. They're all like. Like, jimmy. Jimmy's keeping them alive. They're dying. Like, they're blown up. And I'm like, this is traumatic. I'm like, this is horrible. So I. We gotta.

[Host Mike]

Trapper is that hog.

[Co-host Mike]

You're like, hogs, like, yeah, but there's. Some are alive, some are, like, running around. They're hit by car. Like a whole patch of. Whatever they call them. Flock of them geese, whatever they're called. So I'm like. I'm like, this is terrible. So I call, like, a trapper guy, and he's like, yeah, man, I get down there, help you out something, and he's gonna, like, come and take him humanely and all that. He walks up. No, worse than that. He picks the first one up with a knife and just slices his throat right in front of me. And he's like. Throws it on the truck, grabs the next one just like. And I'm like. I literally walked in my car. I was a supervisor. I walked in my car, got my car and just drove away. I left the other dip. I'm like, I'm not witnessing the rest of this. He just picked him up one by one, and just off he went right on the side of the road.

[Host Mike]

Well, that's how they make our.

[Co-host Mike]

In front of a school. I Get it. But I just didn't want to see it. But, yeah, that was like my. I'm like, you know, I. I kept a deer in the back of my car for, like, five hours once to get somebody to come get it.

[Host Mike]

To rehabilitate one.

[Co-host Mike]

No, it was a lot. It, like, got injured, hit by a car. So I, like, put in my car and waited and wa to go respond to some calls.

[Host Mike]

Hang on, buddy.

[Co-host Mike]

But so, yeah, I'm a little over the top with animal.

[Host Mike]

You're sitting there taking a report.

[Gary Windheim]

Did you not watch Tommy boy? You never put a deer in the.

[Co-host Mike]

Back of your car? No, I had. He was good.

[Host Mike]

He was good little.

[Co-host Mike]

He was a. Yeah, he jumped. He got injured on, like, a reserve, and I was able to wrangle him up and throw him in the back.

[Host Mike]

And the animal shelter's like, thanks, Mike. And as you walk out the door.

[Gary Windheim]

They'Re like, this is going to be delicious.

[Co-host Mike]

No, I actually got updates from the lady who rescued it.

[Host Mike]

He lived.

[Gary Windheim]

You get pictures. Christmas time. Yep.

[Host Mike]

Yep.

[Co-host Mike]

I'm going to dinner. They're having fun.

[Host Mike]

All right. So that was. I. I could not wait to cover that story. We got a bunch of other topics to cover. So, Mike, the boiling water cop. Yeah, this. Actually, this broadcast back when it was a podcast, did cover this, and it was a huge controversy. Because if you don't know real quick, and I'm sure you do, but just in case, recap. You don't know. Cops respond to a mentally ill person. Any cop in the right mind would have been like, this person's mentally ill. Through their investigation, they realized that what she was saying was not true, and, you know, she's just mentally ill. Well, at that time, it's just time to go back to work. Right. There's no point. Well, these cops were. What would you. They're not proactive. They were kind of almost pushing their constitutional rights by making her identify herself in her own home. Right?

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah. Dom and I talked about it last night, and I get like. So when you work for a small agency, they're crazy about, like, I don't know how you guys did. When I worked for city, you had to get everybody's information every call. You had to almost write a report on every call. So Microman.

[Gary Windheim]

Oh, yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

You got to the sheriff's office, and it was like, you don't want us here. You got your legs missing. Like, you don't want us. I'm leaving. I don't care. So I can imagine where he brought up. Dom brought up the Point that maybe there was some requirement to get name, to put in some CAD notes or some whatever. I look at that. When I did my stance on that was from the beginning watching that every cop in America wants to get back in their car and drive the away from that call. Because you're like this.

[Host Mike]

And she's about to say something stupid.

[Co-host Mike]

Yep. And then goes to the hospital. So when they went into the house, I was like, why did they want to go in? Like, why did they want to go. And then from there, listen, call me liberal Mike. There was no reason you can't shoot.

[Host Mike]

No, there was.

[Co-host Mike]

You can't shoot that well.

[Host Mike]

So they put themselves. And we. When we get down. And I'm so excited because I have not researched this at all. So Mike's got what happened in court, but when he got down to it, we were debating on. You take everything away up until the use of force incident.

[Jimmy]

Right.

[Host Mike]

So if you took. If you stripped everything away the. The prior 20 minutes, and you just talked about the use of force incident. She grabbed a pot of boiling water. I think she even said, I'm gonna throw this on you or something, puke.

[Co-host Mike]

You in the name of Jesus and all that stuff. And then he said, don't, don't, don't.

[Host Mike]

And then she threw it, laughing. Because of my wife. But yeah. So she threw the boiling pot of water. Did they shoot her after it had been just thrown out?

[Co-host Mike]

I think it was in the blank. In the process.

[Host Mike]

In the process, they shoot and kill her. So can you kill someone over boiling water? It can. It can take life. Limber eyesight. So in the right circumstances. Yeah. If I was in your home and I'm like, hey, you're going to jail. And they go to grab a boy. And I know it's boiling, Right. I know because you told me. And I could see it's boiling hot. And every indicator and I can articulate, you're about to throw that at me.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

And there's no reason you're not like, hold on, let me move this pot. While I go to jail. You're just like, bitch. And you go, I can shoot you. Would I rather back out in that situation? Because it's an old lady with a boiling pot of water, and I can move faster than she could probably throw it.

[Jimmy]

Sure.

[Host Mike]

That's probably what I would do.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

But we're arguing use of force, and it was a big split down the middle when you just took the use of force out. What should happen and what happened in court.

[Co-host Mike]

So he was convicted of the lesser charge, they tried to go first degree, like premeditated, full blown. Kind of like the George Floyd, Derek Chauvin thing, where I think they went over the top with the charge. He was convicted of second degree murder, which doesn't have any intent. He's. And of course the family is not happy about that. And he's facing four to 20 years in prison at sentencing for that conviction. So he was found guilty of the lesser charge. He still. He took the stand and he stand that his life was. He was in fear. You're right. Boiling water can cause very bad injuries, eyesight loss. Be able to get your gun taken away in those. In those situations where we talked. We talk about a lot. Mental illness. You just leave.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

What is she gonna do? You're at the point she doesn't have a. I mean, even if she. I mean, a knife. I look back at some calls where I was at work, you know, mentally ill people grab knives and it's like just if you have the opportunity to get out, get out. She wants to stab herself in the house or even shoot herself in the house. That's her prerogative. We don't kill her for her. Now she comes outside, puts the community in danger or comes out and then puts. That's different.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

I mean, if you can get out. He could have got out long before she had time to ever touch him.

[Host Mike]

All right, let's. Let's pull on our heartstrings. Everybody in the room. This is your. This is your decision as a copy. So it's you. You. Absolutely. Let's say it is a justified situation. She comes out of the house and starts walking at you with a pot of boiling hot water. Let me ask you first, what are you doing as a cop?

[Gary Windheim]

What's the temperature outside? How quickly are we losing the boiling? Because I'm sorry, a pot of boiling water.

[Host Mike]

Are you thinking that at the time.

[Gary Windheim]

No. At a pot of boiling water. That's the best weapon you could come up with? I'm.

[Host Mike]

Do you think you could retreat faster?

[Gary Windheim]

Absolutely.

[Jimmy]

We're not taking out hijackers on an airplane.

[Host Mike]

No.

[Jimmy]

You know, where it's a confined space, there's nowhere to go. And this is actually a legitimate weapon.

[Gary Windheim]

Thank you.

[Co-host Mike]

Even outside. Yes. That. That weapon is not justified to shoot anybody. Do you have. Like you said, what do you have about a minute, minute and a half until it's back to Nor if it's. It's cold out.

[Host Mike]

It. You have.

[Co-host Mike]

What are you gonna do with it? And then you got to Carry it. You gotta be careful not to burn yourself. You're gonna run with a pot of boiling water. And I mean, it just doesn't. It doesn't.

[Jimmy]

Old lady in her moomoo and slippers. Like, I'm. I'm out right now.

[Gary Windheim]

It doesn't pass the test.

[Host Mike]

When he told her to get back and she didn't.

[Co-host Mike]

Oh, here it comes.

[Host Mike]

Here it comes.

[Co-host Mike]

Here it comes. Should have gave her. She gave her distractionary strike.

[Jimmy]

Is it possible. Is it possible that the. The litigiousness of our society.

[Host Mike]

What's legitious list mean?

[Jimmy]

Litigious. I mean, it's very legalistic. Like there's a lot of laws and, and we, we adhere very specifically to the letter of the law and we use each other. We use the, the law quite a bit. So let's remember the lady that sued McDonald's.

[Co-host Mike]

Oh, for the coffee.

[Jimmy]

For coffee.

[Host Mike]

Different.

[Jimmy]

Okay, but is it possible that this is the, the natural progression of thought? Like, hey, if I can sue McDonald's for boiling hot coffee, which I expect to be hot, and it burned me. Can I not shoot someone who's about to throw something boiling at me? I mean, I'm.

[Host Mike]

I'm. Jimmy, I love it. Jimmy, let's get you on the civilian review board.

[Jimmy]

What I'm saying not is that is. Is it justified? That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, is that this is the natural outflow of that thought process where we have become so litigious to certain things, we rigidly adhere to it that now we can actually look at a cop and go, maybe so.

[Gary Windheim]

It'S given them the ability to articulate.

[Jimmy]

That's. There you go. You put that better than I did.

[Co-host Mike]

And a jury listened and they're decision. And I'll here, I will take a stand on this. Of course it's to be called a racist. You had nothing to do with her skin color. Yeah, I don't buy that for a second that part of it.

[Host Mike]

Ben Crump on the case there were.

[Co-host Mike]

The family was saying it is a black woman shot by a white cop. That's all trash. Bad, bad decision. Bad policing. And I don't. I just don't understand like. And I know we joke.

[Jimmy]

I'm liberal Mike.

[Co-host Mike]

But I'm very on the side of the police. Tough job. It just doesn't make sense.

[Host Mike]

Okay, that kind of, kind of goes into the question I was asking you when you. You're very hard on police officers and you have high standards for them.

[Co-host Mike]

Correct?

[Host Mike]

Do you. Is It a. Do you feel like. Yes. Or do you feel remorse for this cop who was given bad training, bad information, bad ways of handling it, or do you think this guy was a piece of shit?

[Co-host Mike]

I don't want to judge that part.

[Jimmy]

And I want to.

[Co-host Mike]

I don't know. I'm just saying that with. When your brain is going through scenarios and you're. I've been there. And critical incidents. I know Gary has. You're assessing escape routes, ways to get out of this situation, not get injured, not get. I just. She's standing here to walk away. It took her like 20, 30 seconds before she actually grabs the pot.

[Host Mike]

Do you think. Do you think if I. If that cop had said, stop moving and she said no, and she walked and he gave her distractors to the face, that would have solved this whole thing and she'd still be alive today?

[Gary Windheim]

Oh, wait a minute.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, that scenario. Yes.

[Gary Windheim]

Still go hands on.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Because there's a boiling pot and I'm joking with the distractors. Obviously, that's a good joke. But when she goes. When you're like, hey, ma', am, stop moving. There's a. There's a bunch of stuff in the kitchen. I don't want to. And she doesn't stop when you go, ma', am, bam, bam, stop. And you put her in here.

[Co-host Mike]

Here's the problem with. Because you can go hands on, you can taser. You would not want to tase her in that situation because she falls into the pot. That's so at the point where he was at. The best option is to get away, back away. Hey, dispatch, I got a crazy lady with a boiling water. She's yelling about Jesus, she's mentally ill.

[Gary Windheim]

Call the.

[Co-host Mike]

What do they call them now? The. The mental health people.

[Host Mike]

Behavioral health.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, get one of them over here with a.

[Jimmy]

Get a social worker, a pot, a.

[Co-host Mike]

Boiling pot, water resistant vest on. Call them over, and I'm leaving. I'm going to deal with crime like I fight crime.

[Jimmy]

That's like, I. I'm out. I'm out. I 100 agree with that sentiment. Right.

[Co-host Mike]

I'm out.

[Jimmy]

You know how many guys played cops and robbers versus how many people said, let's talk the crazy lady off the edge with the boiling pot of water. You're. If you're a police officer, you should be trying to go out there and bust a bad guy.

[Co-host Mike]

Because even if, let's say, that distance, a knife. Yeah, you're justified. But do you really need to. Do you want to shoot that old lady because she's having A mental. She picks up a knife. Yes, you're justified a thousand percent. I get it. But do you want to.

[Host Mike]

Does that want to be the one striker. That's it.

[Co-host Mike]

I know you want to give her. She wanted to put a seatbelt around her neck so you can hit her. But in. Is that the one you want?

[Jimmy]

Like when all of the gunfights, you don't get into that.

[Host Mike]

I think that's great.

[Co-host Mike]

Speaking of gunfire, let's transition, because he's got. I want. I want you to tell the one of your story. We got a guest, and you've been in two shootings where you tell the one about the pedophile.

[Gary Windheim]

Yes.

[Co-host Mike]

This is Mr. What's that?

[Jimmy]

Was there a wood chip?

[Co-host Mike]

Even quicker. I like it. Because you're not even supposed to be there. No, it happened. Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

So tell us about that.

[Gary Windheim]

So I'm. I was in the detective division at the time. I was sergeant, and I got a call from the Leesburg Police Department, and they had had a reportee. It was a. A juvenile female who reported that her mother's boyfriend had been.

[Co-host Mike]

You called it in a relationship?

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah, they've been dating. They'd been dating for like four years. She was nine. Oh, look at the dude's Facebook. And it's pictures of him and the daughter. And then every once in a while, there'd be one with mom. So. I mean. Yeah, bad. And they lived in Eustace, so we had a tie there. And we had had a prior complaint before that was investigated, and the victim at the time rescinded everything that she said, which is common when we know that. So Leesburg's not taking the report. They called me up. They're like, hey, we're going to go interview this guy.

[Host Mike]

Do you want to go?

[Gary Windheim]

Absolutely. You know, I'll ride over, go with you, tell my lieutenant. I'm like, hey, I'm going over to Leesburg. I'm going to interview this guy. Which is.

[Co-host Mike]

Which is already strange that a detective actually leaves office and goes and does some work, but.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

Well, good for you.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah, it still happens occasionally.

[Host Mike]

Were you a detective?

[Gary Windheim]

I was detective sergeant, so I was over the detective division.

[Host Mike]

I know you know this, and I want you to be honest because Mike's going to pass judgment on you. Did you wear a vest when you went on the field?

[Gary Windheim]

Always.

[Host Mike]

Always. But we do have a super chat. We have a super chat from my wife Heather that says, mike, are you not wearing a vest?

[Co-host Mike]

I'm not. I mean. I mean, I'm in the Office.

[Host Mike]

I would have loved it if you went. I always.

[Co-host Mike]

I haven't I looked at it before I left. Do I have an extra one?

[Host Mike]

I always wear a vest, even on Halloween.

[Gary Windheim]

This is his dress. Dress uniform.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

That's very good.

[Host Mike]

Do you ever wear. Okay, is there ever a time we're gonna get back here story.

[Gary Windheim]

Okay.

[Host Mike]

Yeah. Yeah. Is there ever a time in your in that you would justify right now not saying when you were a dumb stupid cop, but you would ever dress in uniform for a funeral or anything and not wear a vest anytime?

[Co-host Mike]

Me?

[Host Mike]

Yeah. Would you ever wear that Identifiable policing.

[Co-host Mike]

If I'm in a uniform? As much as I hated that class A polyester because we went to that real comfortable outer carry on always wore it. And that was. I'm my wife. My wife ingrained that into me and it does. I could not tell her. She says, in your coffin, I want you to look up and tell me why you didn't want to wear your vest that day. You were in a uniform. You're identifiable. You were driving to and from wherever incident you were going to orever funeral or tell me and your kids why you decided to die today. Because the brown hit you in the chest and I couldn't come up with it. And I watch her go to all the time. It's miserable. She has to change everything over because she has. Yeah, she has a class seatbelt, which is ronin and all that. Oh yeah. She has to go to the basket weave and the fan. And I watch her as the only person that goes to these award ceremonies and all these grip and grin functions in a vest in a class A. Everybody else is no best so that I can't lay in a coffin and tell you why I would not wear a vest when I'm in a uniform and I was wearing it wearing a gun and I have no good reason. So my easy answer is where you're identifiable. So you were wearing it.

[Gary Windheim]

Well, it's funny, my. My wife just texted me and reminded me that I was not wearing a vest during this incident.

[Host Mike]

Really?

[Gary Windheim]

And never again after that. I have the text right here on the after that. You never let her.

[Host Mike]

Oh, that. Yes.

[Gary Windheim]

You see it.

[Host Mike]

I can see it now.

[Jimmy]

You know when you.

[Gary Windheim]

You did not have a vest on during that and trust me, her memory is much better than mine.

[Co-host Mike]

So you weren't wearing a vest. But I was not. Continue on the story.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah, so I. I go over. We go over to this apartment to meet this guy. The mom and daughter were out of the apartment on purpose. We Knew this. So myself, the two Leesburg detectives go in, we make contact with him. And up until this, I always thought, you know, never let him in the kitchen. Go back to what we were talking about earlier. Kitchens are bad. Kitchens are dangerous.

[Host Mike]

Every room.

[Gary Windheim]

Every room in somebody's house that you're not familiar with is dangerous.

[Jimmy]

So you're going from known to unknown.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Gary Windheim]

Absolutely.

[Co-host Mike]

On any call.

[Gary Windheim]

On any call.

[Co-host Mike]

The towing call, the civil call, my neighbor's loud call.

[Gary Windheim]

Yes.

[Co-host Mike]

You don't. You walk into an unknown environment where there could be a thousand guns.

[Gary Windheim]

Yes.

[Host Mike]

Weapons.

[Co-host Mike]

And you have no idea.

[Jimmy]

One of the. One of the things that I normally do. I mean, like, I've had cops come to the house for perfectly benign reasons. Sure. And, you know, like, hey, can you tell us about this thing that happened down the street? And, you know, like, yeah, okay, whatever.

[Host Mike]

I have the cops going to my house for a lot of reasons.

[Gary Windheim]

I.

[Host Mike]

Yes, yes.

[Jimmy]

I. I always go. It's normally, like, in the. You know, normally you get interviewed in, like, you know, in the morning time or around afternoon, and you're like, hey, man, do you want to come in? Do you want to. Do you want some water, dude? Like, because he's sitting out there taking notes, and about what time did this happen? And you're like, hey, dude, why don't you come inside? It's boiling hot out here. And they're like, no. And I never, never thought about why they said, no, no, I know.

[Gary Windheim]

I'm not going into the environment that you control.

[Host Mike]

Yep. Yeah.

[Jimmy]

And I'm. I'm literally just trying to be a nice guy. Sure. You know, and so now I'm like, I'll never invite you into my house ever again.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

So getting back to it, we go to the guy's apartment, and we had information that he had child pornography on his phone and on his psp. So we wanted those two items, and the whole goal was just to kind of do a quick interview with him, get those two things. DCF was going to put him out of the house, and then we were going to continue on with our investigation. He shortened the investigation considerably for us.

[Co-host Mike]

The whole thing.

[Gary Windheim]

The whole thing. We were able to handle it all.

[Host Mike]

In that one day.

[Gary Windheim]

So I'm talking to him, and he's. He's making eggs because he's getting ready to go to work at a deaf academy, by the way. Target rich environment. He's. He's making eggs.

[Co-host Mike]

And I'm matured after those comments.

[Gary Windheim]

Sorry.

[Co-host Mike]

Good doing.

[Gary Windheim]

Doing his thing. We're talking to Him. And he's getting more and more nervous. You can tell.

[Co-host Mike]

Miami show.

[Host Mike]

Yeah. Okay, good.

[Gary Windheim]

He's getting more and more nervous. So his, the dog, juvenile victim had run away a couple weeks prior, and he had gone to the house and picked her back up where she ran away too. And, and he had a phone number for that person. And I knew he had it, so I said, hey, man, I need that phone number. Do you have it in your phone? He's like, oh, yeah. Because I didn't see the phone laying anywhere. Pulls a phone out of his pocket. As soon as he pulls it out, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna need that. So I take his phone and things changed. I mean, things just changed, I would imagine. And I look over on the, the coffee table and living room, there's PSP sitting there. Say, is that your psp? Yeah, it's mine. Going to need that too. So I walk over and pick it up and the best way I can describe it, I've told a lot of people about this is he literally was humming. He didn't, you know, not humming, but the energy, energy, energy level just amped in the room. He was just, you could tell, wound out at that point. So the two Leesburg detectives, and tactically this was terrible. I didn't even know that this was going to happen. They're like, hey, we're going to step out real quick and get DCF because we're putting him out of the house and DCF's in the parking lot downstairs. So hang here for a minute, we'll go get them.

[Host Mike]

We'll be right back.

[Co-host Mike]

I'm like, okay.

[Gary Windheim]

So they stepped out. Meanwhile, he gets out of the kitchen and he has stopped communicating. I asked him a question. He's not saying anything. I'm like, hey, man, you all right? He positions himself, he goes and sits down on the couch. Now, it's a two bedroom, it might have been three bedroom apartment. So it's good size. And there's a hallway right across from the house where the TV was on the wall. So I kind of go over to the hallway because I got. You're an apartment, you got nowhere. I mean, there's. If things are going to go south, is a terrible place to have it happen. So he sits down and, and he had been actually sleeping on the couch because he was arguing with his girlfriend. So his pillow was out there. He sees the pillow on the corner, he looks at me and he looks at the pillow. He starts reaching and I'm like, no.

[Host Mike]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Gary Windheim]

So I pull out a draw down on him, and he reaches under the pillow and pulls out a.45. So I'm like, this is not good. You know, this was the way the afternoon was supposed to go.

[Co-host Mike]

Real bad.

[Gary Windheim]

And the next thing I'm thinking, because I yell, gun. Because that's what you're supposed to do. Actually, neighbors in their interviews heard me yell gun. In the apartment. Yeah. So I yell, gun. And then my next thought is, well, these two Leesburg detectives are going to walk in the door, run in the door, Because I just yell, gun. And he's. Where he's sitting on the couch is beat it. Right across from the front door. So I'm like, he's got to drop on them. This can't happen. So I put two in him, and just as the detectives were coming in the door. So they actually didn't fire when they walked in. They saw him sitting on the couch. And then I dispatched him. So. And then the two rounds were effective. It ended right there.

[Co-host Mike]

And you had to call back to the station where you're out of your jurisdiction and say, yeah, by the way, that follow up. Yeah, that follow up I did was done.

[Gary Windheim]

I look at those guys and I'm like, hey, get on your radio. You know, get everybody coming, because this is going to so be.

[Host Mike]

Wait. Did he die? Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy]

Quick question. What weapon were you carrying?

[Gary Windheim]

Glock 40.

[Jimmy]

Okay. So sporty Cal.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Shot placement was good.

[Gary Windheim]

You know, I'm firearms instructor or swat. I was SWAT commander when I left. I've shot a lot, and point shoots a real thing. Yeah, you're not looking down. You're not getting your sight picture and all that. You are looking where you're shooting. Yeah, I hit him once in the throat and once in the cheek. Both of them were. Were lethal.

[Host Mike]

That.

[Jimmy]

That's.

[Co-host Mike]

You know, and in training, it's actually. You're talking about point shooting it. You're not looking for a group at that point. It's actually better to spread them out as you come to the target. One in the abdomen, one in the ribs, one in the chest on your way up. And that's what you.

[Gary Windheim]

I remember when he pulled it out, I remember he had it sideways, and he was kind of looking at it and looking. He was trying to figure out if he wanted to do it, if he wanted to point it at me and get me to do it.

[Co-host Mike]

He thought about killing himself.

[Gary Windheim]

Oh, yeah. Oh, he knew he was cooked. He knew he was cooked. So I can't put myself in. This guy said First, I wouldn't want to put myself in this guy's head. Disgusting.

[Host Mike]

Human.

[Gary Windheim]

But the first detective that they interviewed said when he came in, the guy.

[Co-host Mike]

Was pointing the gun at me.

[Gary Windheim]

And I never. I don't recall that. You see what I'm saying?

[Jimmy]

Oh, no, no, that's. That's why I'm asking.

[Gary Windheim]

But you have enough training. We've been through enough training that you know the guy who holds himself self hostage with a gun, he can point that gun at you.

[Co-host Mike]

There's no.

[Gary Windheim]

That quick.

[Co-host Mike]

There's no still.

[Gary Windheim]

There's no question.

[Co-host Mike]

That's not a pot of water.

[Gary Windheim]

No, but I was looking. I was looking him in the face and where he was looking, what he was doing when I pulled the trigger.

[Jimmy]

So let me. Let me ask you some questions. Just, I mean, like I. I was. I was in there. I don't know if you know my background.

[Host Mike]

I don't.

[Gary Windheim]

I know you got here like late.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, I got here.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, very late.

[Co-host Mike]

Command staff man.

[Jimmy]

Oh, yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

Hey.

[Jimmy]

He slid that right in.

[Gary Windheim]

Sorry. You wearing a vest?

[Jimmy]

No, no, actually not.

[Co-host Mike]

He wasn't a cop.

[Jimmy]

I was not a cop.

[Host Mike]

Okay.

[Jimmy]

I was a.

[Gary Windheim]

He calls him to his house all the time.

[Jimmy]

I. I was in the army for 10 years. I fought in Iraq and Afghanistan. I just. The reason why I'm asking is I've. I've had some engagements in a room with other people, with bad guys, where we had to shoot them.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

And so I'm always curious, what do you remember seeing? Like, if you can go back to that moment, like right before you put the control pair not center mass, but pretty much in the face, in the tee box.

[Host Mike]

What.

[Jimmy]

What did you. What do you remember seeing?

[Gary Windheim]

That last craziest thing.

[Host Mike]

You ready?

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

He had tile floor. I heard the two rounds hit the floor. I heard those two rounds hit the floor.

[Jimmy]

Wow.

[Gary Windheim]

So audio exclusion, man. Everything else, you know, I wasn't. You don't have earphones and all that, guys. Yeah, hold on. I gotta put on my. My safety glasses and all that. No, I didn't. You don't hear the gunshots?

[Jimmy]

Yep.

[Gary Windheim]

You don't hear the. I heard the rounds hit the floor.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

A lot of times. I. I like when I think back on some of the things that we did. I lose color.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

I lose color. And I really can only see.

[Host Mike]

Like.

[Jimmy]

It's like you're looking at a straw.

[Gary Windheim]

That's tunnel vision.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah, that.

[Jimmy]

That. So the memories.

[Gary Windheim]

That's adrenaline.

[Jimmy]

Yeah. And so I. I mean, it's interesting to me Just like, when you're thinking about it, you're like, okay, hey, man, here's. Here's what I got to do. And you made. How fast do you think when you were going through that process, you're like, okay, there's the gun. I'm drawn down on you. He's got a bead on that. How fast did it take you to process and go through that and then make a decision?

[Gary Windheim]

You know, everybody says cops have to make split second decisions, right? Yeah. That's a split second decision.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

I mean, really? Yeah. Hold on. I'm gonna see if I can go down this hallway anymore. I'm gonna check things out.

[Host Mike]

No.

[Gary Windheim]

Dude just pulled a gun on me. Yeah. And that's not gonna work.

[Host Mike]

No. What? And I've been. Not in those situations. Not nearly as bad as that, but, you know, when you're just. You're. You're looking at him and your experience dealing with human beings for as long as you have in this job, you're going, this isn't right. And you're, like, wondering, like, it goes to your head. Clear channel. Guys, come back upstairs. I need people up here right now. And you're. You're, like, trying not to go too far over because you're freaking out, but something's telling you, like, this is. I'm reading him, and this is bad.

[Gary Windheim]

This is bad. He's acting weird. And we. So we had asked his girlfriend if he had any firearms in the house. And she said that because you do all the questions before you go in. And she said that he did have a.45 somewhere, and she thought it was in the closet. Excuse me. Up on a shelf. So she didn't know where it was. And that he had been in the Navy for, I think she said four years. And that he was a Navy seal. Oh, well, no, if you were in the Navy for four years, you probably weren't a Navy seal.

[Jimmy]

Probably not.

[Gary Windheim]

But I knew he did have a.

[Co-host Mike]

Medicine or a hospital worker.

[Host Mike]

Yeah. Nurse in the hospital. Those guys are dangerous.

[Gary Windheim]

At somebody, so. But yeah, and, you know, pop the two rounds off, the first thing you do is, okay, I got a render aid, and I went over and tourniquet around. Yeah, you can't tourniquet that. No, I found out when I got shot.

[Co-host Mike]

Yes, he got shot in the neck.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah. You can't tourniquet that.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, you can't. Well, your chief would have approved it, right?

[Gary Windheim]

Well, 100. Yeah.

[Jimmy]

I mean, at that point, I think.

[Host Mike]

I think people, pedophiles, should get tourniquets around.

[Gary Windheim]

Around the.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, well, death penalty for pedophiles, you.

[Gary Windheim]

Know, and it's interesting because this was on the news for about two days. Of course, because it was because he's a middle aged white pedophile and I'm a middle aged white cop and he pulled a gun on me after.

[Co-host Mike]

If you read the statue far enough, you're just. It's right in there.

[Gary Windheim]

I think it is.

[Co-host Mike]

It's legal.

[Gary Windheim]

Yes.

[Co-host Mike]

Middle aged white male can shoot another middle aged white male. News or houses burning.

[Gary Windheim]

Without the narrative.

[Co-host Mike]

Yes, you're good. It's right in there. You got to just dig. You got to read a few lines down.

[Jimmy]

I mean, did. I mean, pretty much everybody said that was righteous. Shoot 100. Yeah. I was like, okay, but you don't.

[Gary Windheim]

Get that right away. No. And this is something I talked about on Copville is you, you don't ever get told, hey man, good job. You know, because you can't get, you can't get atta boys for taking someone's life. I mean, that just. You don't.

[Jimmy]

Not as a cop.

[Gary Windheim]

Not as a cop. You get. You did your job. You did what you were trained to do and we're not going to prosecute you.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

I mean, you can't win officer of the year for that one.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

No, you don't. Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

I mean, most, most chumos killed in one year.

[Gary Windheim]

We'd like to bring Gary up. He shot a pedophile earlier this year.

[Co-host Mike]

Congratulations.

[Jimmy]

Servant of the community.

[Gary Windheim]

Right.

[Jimmy]

I mean, legitimately though, like, did they.

[Co-host Mike]

Give you a medal?

[Gary Windheim]

Oh, no, no.

[Host Mike]

What?

[Jimmy]

What?

[Gary Windheim]

No, there's no recognition.

[Co-host Mike]

No, no.

[Gary Windheim]

You did your job.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

I mean, yeah, Roger, you did your job. But I mean, like, let's, let's think about this. The way that you articulated that the reason why you fired was, okay, yeah, you were in danger, but like, you were more thinking about if this guy turns, he's got a clear line on the other, on the other two officers. Which means I'm not protecting myself, I'm protecting the backup that's coming. Correct that. I mean, I could, I would put you in for a life ending.

[Co-host Mike]

You get both. You get the life saving and ending award right there on the scene.

[Gary Windheim]

I did get awarded. I got the medal of gallantry when I got shot.

[Co-host Mike]

Okay.

[Gary Windheim]

There were members of the department who voted against it.

[Host Mike]

All right, let's get it.

[Gary Windheim]

There were members of command staff who voted that didn't feel I, it was warranted because what did I do that was. I survived a gunshot.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

How do you feel about it?

[Gary Windheim]

Well, my neck doesn't hurt as much anymore. It's. All the nerves are severed, so.

[Jimmy]

No, let me.

[Co-host Mike]

Let me.

[Gary Windheim]

Let me.

[Co-host Mike]

Let me. Let me lay. We'll tell the next story. Let me just lay the groundwork. Eustace has 40.

[Gary Windheim]

40, 44.

[Co-host Mike]

It's a town about this big at 22,000. We were involved in three shootings.

[Gary Windheim]

Yes.

[Co-host Mike]

You. Well, one. Well, one. One guy killed himself.

[Gary Windheim]

One guy that. Yeah, that was the first one.

[Co-host Mike]

And then you have this one and.

[Gary Windheim]

Then the one I just talked about. No, that had another one after that.

[Co-host Mike]

Okay.

[Gary Windheim]

Were shot a young man in an AutoZone parking lot.

[Co-host Mike]

That's right. That's right. So you in.

[Gary Windheim]

In.

[Co-host Mike]

So most people in, like New York City or Chicago, these massive cities won't even get one.

[Gary Windheim]

Every department.

[Co-host Mike]

And you were involved in four critical incidents.

[Gary Windheim]

Every department has that.

[Co-host Mike]

Did you ever shoot anybody in your own jurisdiction?

[Gary Windheim]

Yes.

[Co-host Mike]

They finally got one.

[Gary Windheim]

Yes. So let's. I shot my own jurisdiction and I did do a shooting in my jurisdiction.

[Co-host Mike]

Talk about. So. But this. Let's talk about this. You definitely. Even on this one, it was a pedophile. You still face some PTSD from that?

[Gary Windheim]

Absolutely.

[Co-host Mike]

And you made the department aware of that?

[Host Mike]

Oh, yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

Okay. And I mean.

[Gary Windheim]

Well, I mean, they sent me to go to the psychiatrist to get the.

[Co-host Mike]

Release, but did you feel the love from the department? Did you feel like they genuinely cared about you or was it like apartment love?

[Jimmy]

Yeah, like.

[Co-host Mike]

Like you took a guy's life.

[Gary Windheim]

I didn't.

[Co-host Mike]

And that's not. That's not.

[Gary Windheim]

It's not an easy thing to do.

[Co-host Mike]

We know we have. Might have to. Yeah, but it sounds good.

[Gary Windheim]

That's a tough decision.

[Co-host Mike]

Yes, it sounds cool until you're the guy that does it.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

I would imagine 100.

[Gary Windheim]

100. You know, and then you're always that guy when you're out on the range and when I'm. Got his gun, look out, you know.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

The jokes come out. So you always have that. Is there a stigma after that? 100.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

So it never leaves. So tell us, the one time about.

[Gary Windheim]

The time you were shot and we. The department failed. I mean, my wife sat on the back porch. I called her because, you know, as soon as you get done calling your command staff and saying, hey, I was just involved in a shooting, you call your wife.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

And great. Cops. Wife. First question. Good shoot. Absolutely. She's like, okay, question.

[Host Mike]

Because it's always the second question.

[Gary Windheim]

Oh, man.

[Host Mike]

I'll say it if you don't want.

[Gary Windheim]

To, but she'll probably text me and let me know.

[Host Mike]

I don't. What.

[Gary Windheim]

What was the second question?

[Host Mike]

What color skin was he white? No, I'm saying that's usually. Oh, no, no. The question when I love you. Mike called me right now and said, I just shot a guy. I'd go, was he black?

[Co-host Mike]

Because that seems dramatically so. When I. When I went through my use of force IA where I got railroaded, when I called my buddy, I said, he's like, was he white? I says, a white method. He's like, yeah, you're good. Well, I wasn't good. But that. That unfortunately, in law enforcement, you have.

[Host Mike]

To ask the narrative they're gonna push. Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

And she'll text me. I'm sure I'm 100 think she did ask me that. Because that's a fair question.

[Co-host Mike]

It is a fair question.

[Gary Windheim]

I mean, that's gonna change the dynamics.

[Jimmy]

Hey, are you okay? Are you okay?

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah. It's not. And it doesn't change the fact because.

[Host Mike]

When they're calling you, you got.

[Jimmy]

You get.

[Host Mike]

You do want to ask you.

[Gary Windheim]

Do you gotten clarification? The first question was, are you okay?

[Jimmy]

Okay.

[Host Mike]

Okay.

[Gary Windheim]

So second one was, is it a good shoot? And then I think we discussed the.

[Jimmy]

Logistics, because if you called me, my first question was, hey, bro, are you good?

[Gary Windheim]

Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy]

You know what I'm saying? And then I would have been like, all right, you know, good shoot or not. And walk me through it.

[Gary Windheim]

And where we fail as departments and continue to fail as departments. And I tried to break this cycle. It's just very hard to break into. Is we train on use of force incidents up until the point that you pull the trigger. Correct. And then we go in scenario, and then it gets.

[Co-host Mike]

It gets just. I remember the ones where my buddy. My buddy Chris Lester was shot, and it was like, chaos.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

I mean, and it's like, I got a call from a lieutenant, said, Chris Lester was just shot. Can you come back to work? And I'm like, is he dead?

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

They're like, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, do you need me back? I don't know. And I'm like, why the are you calling me? And it was like, everybody's in chaos. And then we had the one.

[Host Mike]

We.

[Co-host Mike]

We've showed the video on the one where the chief shows up wanting them to put the gun back.

[Host Mike]

Yes.

[Co-host Mike]

You know, it's like all the. No, but you're right.

[Gary Windheim]

We don't train for it.

[Co-host Mike]

I'm going on it. I'm going, all right, Horse Right here. Because these sit around the station and micromanage and treat you like over F word. You were going 40 in a 30.

[Host Mike]

Hold on.

[Gary Windheim]

I was one of those.

[Co-host Mike]

You were, you were a good. I know that because you're on SWAT and you're a captain and you're out doing follow ups. You didn't wear your vest, but we'll let you slide on that one. But they sit around all day telling you, you did this wrong, you did this wrong, you did this wrong. And then there's a critical incident where somebody's dead and you got to deal with it as a cop. And they show up.

[Host Mike]

They're like, what do we do?

[Co-host Mike]

I know it for a fact. In the last shooting that happened in my agency, they killed somebody. One of my good friends was one of the that shot the guy. The captain that showed up had no clue what to do.

[Jimmy]

He's a.

[Co-host Mike]

And they don't know who the scene commander is up, should I go to the command post? Do I go to the scene? What do we do for it? They have no idea. They don't train on how to respond to your worst day.

[Gary Windheim]

Look at their belts.

[Co-host Mike]

Yep. They got one.

[Gary Windheim]

They got a gun.

[Co-host Mike]

Yes. So their job is, we got the policies, we're doing all this leading. They have no idea. I didn't even think about that. They have no clue what to do when they show up.

[Gary Windheim]

Nope.

[Co-host Mike]

And you don't know what to do because you just been involved in the worst thing that's ever gonna happen.

[Gary Windheim]

What do we train in? Scenario.

[Host Mike]

Okay.

[Gary Windheim]

I. I pulled the trigger. The scenario is over. Yep.

[Jimmy]

If I.

[Co-host Mike]

You're done, you guys are supposed to come tell me what to do.

[Gary Windheim]

Right?

[Co-host Mike]

Like what, hey, man, what am I going to do?

[Gary Windheim]

Yep.

[Jimmy]

If I can bring this back to the army.

[Gary Windheim]

Is. Are you. Are you back down off yourself?

[Co-host Mike]

I'm good.

[Gary Windheim]

Oh, yeah. I just want to.

[Jimmy]

I want to make sure he's off.

[Host Mike]

I'm good.

[Co-host Mike]

Very often when I start with, that's when, you know, it's like, it makes me so mad.

[Jimmy]

When we, when we train in the army, right. When you, when you do, like, your, you know, assault across the objective, you do everything. We assess casualties. And when you're out in, like, the big training areas, you'll even do like the whole, hey, we got to take them to Mortuary Affairs. Let's get their battle roster number. Let's do that. And we train all of that until the paperwork is done. And then when the paperwork is done, it's like, okay, guys, back out. You Know, okay, we've done all the casualty stuff that we have to do.

[Host Mike]

That's a good point. And.

[Jimmy]

And nobody is going like, hey, man, Jimmy's best friend just got his head blown off. Can we talk about that?

[Gary Windheim]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

I think the difference between that is that in combat, casualties are more expected in the sense that morally, just like by society, it's just by warriors, you're expecting way more casualties. A police shooting is something that's typically not very expected.

[Jimmy]

Right.

[Host Mike]

A lot of them happened within seconds. And that officer has. We talk about this all the time. Two and a half minutes prior to taking someone's life, you could have been.

[Co-host Mike]

Sipping a coffee, talking to a fancy initials. Did you go to the FBI Academy?

[Gary Windheim]

So I was class of 280 and the canceled with code.

[Jimmy]

That's right.

[Co-host Mike]

You told me on the episode so.

[Gary Windheim]

That you were supposed to go, I've got the letters. Congratulations.

[Co-host Mike]

Those morons in that class, you got to go learn all this stuff. Here's the other thing. You go to active shooter instructor class. Okay. Because we're training for the worst of the worst.

[Gary Windheim]

I was an active shooter instructor.

[Co-host Mike]

I was at 2. I went to NTOA active shooter instructor. The day I got started with my ia, I left for Alabama. Again. They teach you up until the point that you evac everybody. And then it's endex and scenario and scenario. What happens next? So when all these morons are going to these fancy academies and all these leadership classes to get the 17 initials after their email, when are they learning to take care of an officer that.

[Gary Windheim]

Killed somebody to write papers? I think they just.

[Co-host Mike]

When are they worried? When the wife is. When the wife's sitting at home and nobody shows up, right? Like failure.

[Host Mike]

Nobody. It's pretty simple.

[Co-host Mike]

Nobody went to his wife's.

[Gary Windheim]

Nobody came to my house. Nobody called my wife. She sat on the back porch until I came home. Nobody called her. And we did. We. I called the chief. I said, we can't do this. This is ever how we do business.

[Co-host Mike]

What initial. What are all those initials for at the end of your. What do you make all that money for when you get to. That's the day your job is important.

[Gary Windheim]

And we did. We. We went back and taught an in service training. We. We taught past the in scenario because you it. And that's the scariest part, man, I just took this guy's life.

[Host Mike]

But that's really everything that they teach.

[Gary Windheim]

You in law enforcement, that this is about to be a problem for you.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, we're not even talking about that. You need. So when the for people have that have never been cops, the scene's got a bit. Once the scene is secure, right. The bad guy secure. Whichever was everybody's getting their aid rendered to them. Whether it's on scene, whether they're being transported, that all comes. But the next big in my eyes as a cop is somebody in his direct line of command and supervision goes. Come here. You're coming over here. Jimmy, you're sitting with Mike. Nobody is to talk to Mike unless I am standing here because I'm his sergeant. Union gets there. Union knows the rules. Union knows admin gets there. Sometimes they don't play by the rule.

[Co-host Mike]

Oh no, they don't know them.

[Gary Windheim]

There you go.

[Host Mike]

And.

[Jimmy]

And you know, this is a great point. Like so if. If you were a staff sergeant and I was a sergeant and you know we got a Joe that we've got to deal with and you said arnett this guy. Nobody talks to this guy unless I'm there. Do you understand? I'd go Roger, Sean. And I don't care who comes. The battalion commander can come.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

Don't talk to him.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, you. Sorry, sir.

[Gary Windheim]

I self isolated. I went to my car.

[Jimmy]

These are my. These are my orders. Doesn't sound like that's the way it works with Leo's.

[Host Mike]

It's just. What there's not the brotherhood slowly fading away. So having the sergeant that would have the wherewithal in that in the middle of all that to go. Mike, I need you separated from everybody here. I need you safe. Are you good? I need someone to sit with you. Union reps on his way. But I care about you Right now I might not know all the details because I just got here, but you just killed a guy or you just shot a guy. And right now, at some point we do have to start worrying about you. Yeah, you have to have, you know, make sure your rep is on his way. They called your wife. Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

Need a donut?

[Host Mike]

You want water?

[Co-host Mike]

What?

[Host Mike]

I mean, you want me to call your wife?

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Are you too shooken up or a.

[Co-host Mike]

Friend who Somebody who. Who's who? Who do we call?

[Host Mike]

You know his wife?

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, you know his wife. All right, give her a call. This is what I want. He's okay. Start off with he's okay, right? He's just not able to talk right now. But he's totally fine. He was just in a shooting. We'll get you more information as soon as possible.

[Jimmy]

And that. That sounds like. I mean we just came up with that on the fly. I don't know that that needed to be taught anywhere like that. Just seems, unfortunately you would think that.

[Gary Windheim]

This is what happens, but it's not.

[Co-host Mike]

Because what is does. We go through all the training. We have to go to the range, we have to go put a tourniquet on. We do cpr. We have to do ad. We have to do all. What the. Does command staff have to do. They come to work late, they go home early, they eat. They do. When are they going? Okay, today we're going to have a mock officer involved shooting.

[Host Mike]

Ready, go.

[Co-host Mike]

What do we do? And then they plan. Okay, I'm the scene commander. I'm gonna call this. We're gonna make sure the officer's resources are here. We're gonna make sure you. They don't do that. No, they just wing it.

[Gary Windheim]

No, it's a great idea.

[Co-host Mike]

They wing it. Of course it is.

[Gary Windheim]

I mean, get command to come to. In service training you.

[Host Mike]

You could. But no, no, Command gets to go to their own special if at all.

[Co-host Mike]

Oh, we don't fall at all.

[Host Mike]

I've gone to the range and I walked up, I'm like, why? The. Everybody from command here is one of the things you don't want to be there. They're qualified. And one of the range people goes, oh, it's their in service day. I'm like, oh, so they have a very special. We're going to deliver it to you differently. The boss.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, yeah. You're going to miss 30 of your 40 rounds. We're going to sign the paper anyway and we're going to send you back and you'll come back next year. And when do they go, okay, mock. Mock critical incident.

[Host Mike]

Know what? Also you'd hate my old agency. When we did in service training, they did this out of. Just because they're tired of dealing with it. They would take the employee identifier numbers and they would go. They would do the first half. They would split us into two to cover more ground. So two half days. And they would take all the younger guys by their EID and they would put them in a group and they take all the older guys because the older guys always bitch the whole time about everything and they got sick of it. And so the older guys would hang up and up on stuff. So they taught them differently. They delivered it to him differently.

[Co-host Mike]

Why do we gotta do this?

[Jimmy]

Why we gotta do that?

[Host Mike]

Why do I gotta be here? Why? You know, the young guys are like, hey, I'm a cop. This is what's expected of Me, they just shut up and did what they were supposed to do. So, you know, expectations.

[Jimmy]

Well, I mean, based on what you're telling me, you. I mean, you guys all know this way better than I do. Seems like it would cost you $0 to go, okay, we're gonna have a mock command staff. Just.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, because the problem is, I mean, maybe in a small agency, yes. But when you get into big departments, those start turning into dog and pony shows, and it becomes more about a show because now all of a sudden, city council wants to come in, the mayor wants to come. See, the news wants to come because the mayor wants to come. Wait, now you got all. You got all kinds of people. Now you got tape. And now all I've seen.

[Gary Windheim]

Now it's a production.

[Co-host Mike]

Have to leave the building for what we're talking about. Put it in the agency gym or the Tick Tock, the. Whatever it is.

[Gary Windheim]

I agree.

[Co-host Mike]

And you could just say, okay, what do we do? You're seeing Commander.

[Gary Windheim]

What are your.

[Co-host Mike]

What are you going to do for the officer? What are you going to do for.

[Host Mike]

And on top of that, I see comments in here from EMTs.

[Co-host Mike]

Real.

[Host Mike]

We're. We're trying every day. We are now mixing scenarios with EMTs, firefighters, because guess what?

[Jimmy]

Did you. Did you see the video that I sent about the drone where they went and rescued that kid in the cornfield?

[Co-host Mike]

Oh, yeah, I saw it.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

And then firefighters, EMTs and cops all. And a drone operator.

[Host Mike]

Yep.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, they found that kid quick, too. Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

Oh, we put them in. All the active killer training. We put them in now because they're the active killer.

[Host Mike]

Sounds awesome.

[Gary Windheim]

Isn't that what they are?

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, no, you're.

[Host Mike]

It's an active killer when you're serving. When you're serving a warrant on pedophile. Is that what it's called? An active killer?

[Gary Windheim]

It wasn't at the time, but it turned.

[Host Mike]

All right, get back.

[Co-host Mike]

I want you to finish your shoot when you got shot.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, sorry.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, no, no, that's.

[Gary Windheim]

Are we going to skip over the other shooting, the 2018?

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, you have to watch Cobville to see that one episode. We gotta have something. That one sucks. I know.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, he talked about your episod. Showed up.

[Co-host Mike]

He, like, sucked. He was the guest, so if he sucked, it was my.

[Gary Windheim]

Dude, I'll tell you, I got the best comment from a friend too, who was. Who was in law enforcement. Is. He said, man, I remember when I was a rookie, I went in and I cleared the gun and put it away.

[Co-host Mike]

Yes, yes.

[Gary Windheim]

Yes, because that was the other thing. When, When FDLE gets there and does the investigation, they go in, they get his gun. It was sitting on the edge of the couch with the magazine out of it and empty because, you know, somebody always runs in and disarms the dead guy.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, and I told you that I had a. I had a murder suicide in a.

[Host Mike]

In it.

[Co-host Mike]

And one of the first thing that was two days old. Two day old Mercer's I responded to. And the first guy on scene, Pride the gun out of the dude's hand, cleared it, put it in a drawer, and closed the drawer on the other side of the room.

[Host Mike]

And I'm like, I like your initiative, son.

[Co-host Mike]

Did you think he was gonna like.

[Host Mike]

I'm.

[Jimmy]

I'm. I'm going off again. So if you, if you engage somebody, right, and so there's more of us in the room, do you do security rounds or pylon shoots?

[Host Mike]

No, not.

[Jimmy]

No, no, no.

[Host Mike]

Execution style. No.

[Co-host Mike]

A couple extras.

[Host Mike]

Ben Laden. No, no Bin Laden rounds.

[Jimmy]

I mean, no.

[Host Mike]

I mean, remember, we're trying to.

[Co-host Mike]

We're trying to stop the threat, not eliminate.

[Jimmy]

Now there's.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, eliminate the person.

[Host Mike]

There's. There's studies done because. And a lot of shooting.

[Jimmy]

Have a follow up.

[Host Mike]

Okay, well, there's a lot of studies done because when you watch a police shooting, it'll be bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, and they'll be on the ground and the cop will keep firing. And people like, that's inhumane. The threats down.

[Gary Windheim]

And it's your science, man. Look into four. Science.

[Host Mike]

Stop it. And there's all kinds of science.

[Gary Windheim]

That's why people get shot in the back.

[Co-host Mike]

And we.

[Gary Windheim]

Because when the officer initially sees the threat and goes to start squeezing the trigger, the dude turns to run at that time and the round comes out and hits the guy in the back. Oh, you shot him in the back. Well, I wasn't shooting him in the back when I pulled the trigger.

[Co-host Mike]

And of all things, I'll say my G did well. Was. We actually trained those shots.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

We had multiple targets where it would be engage, engage, and then there'd be a target lane. And you continue to engage as it went down. Because that's what you're supposed to do.

[Gary Windheim]

Eliminate the threat.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, yeah. So my, My question is, like, I get it, okay? The optics are bad. But, like, if I decided to shoot this guy, I've decided to kill him.

[Co-host Mike]

Nope, nope, nope.

[Jimmy]

What?

[Co-host Mike]

No, I'm not shooting him to kill him.

[Gary Windheim]

I'm shooting him.

[Host Mike]

You're not shooting the wound Just like you're not shooting the wound, you're not shooting to kill. You're shooting in effective places that are probably going to kill him.

[Gary Windheim]

Correct.

[Host Mike]

But your goal isn't to kill him.

[Gary Windheim]

If the outcome is death. That's just. That's a result of you stopping the threat, man.

[Jimmy]

This is why I asked the questions.

[Gary Windheim]

Because rules of engagement, totally different.

[Co-host Mike]

And that's where these dumb cops get on social media and say, I'm gonna kill somebody, I'm gonna take. And that, that is the worst thing you could ever say because when you get in that shooting, they're gonna find that video from 12 years ago where you said you're gonna kill somebody and they're gonna play for a jury and go, he was gonna kill him.

[Jimmy]

It's. It's funny, I. I've actually trained Leo's to do active shooters to do room clearing. I always talked about control pair, center mass. You're trying to kill this guy. You're trying to put him out of the fight as fast as you stop the threat and. But nobody had any problem when I.

[Co-host Mike]

Was talking about it. They're not gonna speak, those guys.

[Gary Windheim]

They're in class, man. They just want to get through it so I can get.

[Co-host Mike]

Trying to get the lunch.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

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[Host Mike]

People.

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[Host Mike]

All right, we're back. Officer, our guest left.

[Co-host Mike]

Let me pants on. That's a good segue.

[Host Mike]

Let's talk about. We're gonna go back to his. His story. He's got another. Is it another shooting story, or were.

[Jimmy]

We in this war? He got shot.

[Co-host Mike]

He killed. He got in another shooting, but then he got shot.

[Host Mike]

Okay, so talk about what?

[Co-host Mike]

Getting shot real good.

[Gary Windheim]

Good.

[Co-host Mike]

It's not important. Good man. Command staff.

[Host Mike]

You want to wait for him to be done peeing, we can. No, no.

[Co-host Mike]

God's trying to pour his heart out to you about critical Internet, and you're just like it.

[Host Mike]

We just interrupted him about 27 times.

[Co-host Mike]

Off to the next one.

[Host Mike]

All right, well, then we'll wait for him. No good. No, we'll wait for him. It's fine. Like your passive aggressiveness.

[Jimmy]

Mike, Good grief. I mean, we got a lot of. There's a lot of other stuff to talk about.

[Host Mike]

Well, let's do the Detroit underwear copy. All right, so.

[Gary Windheim]

Oh, he's back.

[Host Mike]

All right, we're gonna finish your story.

[Jimmy]

And I won't interrupt. It's my fault.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

All right.

[Jimmy]

Finish your.

[Gary Windheim]

Took off for a minute. Some more Time to bash command stuff.

[Host Mike]

I didn't hear anything.

[Gary Windheim]

All right, where was I? What story?

[Jimmy]

Oh, this is where you got shot. You never even started how. Like, how that all happened.

[Host Mike]

Like what?

[Jimmy]

Except that you were involved in a shooting. Yeah, so several shootings in your tiny town around. So you're really.

[Host Mike]

So you're really a movie. Several shootings in your tiny town.

[Jimmy]

All right, Raylan.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

So.

[Gary Windheim]

No.

[Host Mike]

No. God, no.

[Gary Windheim]

My shooting. We had a guy do an armed robbery at a convenience store on the north end of town, and he stole the clerk's car, which. The clerk was more upset about his car being stolen than anything else, and I'm pretty sure there was a lot more involved in that than just your standard armed robbery. He was a. He was a homeless guy, but he grew up in the town. I knew who he was, and he knew who I was. So the car pinged off of a Bridge in St. Augustine, so we figured he was gone. And so about three days after the armed robbery, and I was going to Walgreens to get Christmas lights for the Christmas tree in the police department, because these are things that command staff cares about, you know, everybody Got their Christmas.

[Co-host Mike]

Tree and all that in your car, burning up the gas. But you're getting it for the.

[Gary Windheim]

I was getting it for the agency. I was on duty. I had my vest on.

[Co-host Mike]

We're gonna have our annual Christmas party where we tell everybody how much we love them.

[Host Mike]

Right. We're getting to the story.

[Co-host Mike]

Good.

[Gary Windheim]

So I'm at the intersection of 19 and 44, and I hear gunshots. I'm on the phone with my wife, and she's like, is that gunshots? I'm like, yeah, that was gunshots. So I might want to go see what's going on. So, you know, I, of course, called comm center. Hey, we got a report of anything? I just heard gunshots. And I'd come around the corner on 44, coming up the entrance of a Winn Dixie that's right there, and this SUV comes flying out. So, you know, I've been kind of a detective at one time. Gunshots, car flee in the area that may be involved. So I'm running up on it, catch up to it. Didn't even have my lights on or anything. And he saw me, he knew who I was, and whipped over on the.

[Host Mike]

Side of the road.

[Gary Windheim]

So I pulled in behind it, but I stayed, you know, 15, 20 yards back because still don't know what I have. And I'm calling it in. Hey, send me some units. I'm not sure what's going on here. Well, he jumped out and put eight rounds on the front. Front of my truck. So he had gone back to the store. The guy who did the armed robbery and picked a bag up from underneath the air conditioner in the back of the store have no idea how it got there, why he was going back. And there's an auto repair shop. The store had a. A car wash behind it, and the car wash has been turned into an auto repair shop. So the guy who owns that place comes out, confronts him, says, hey, man, what are you doing? And he sees Tim, says, you want to die today? Pulls out a pistol. Well, Tim didn't want to die. He's like, no, I won't die today. He takes off running, and he popped about six or seven rounds off in the parking lot. That's the gunshots I heard. So when he saw me pulls over, he finishes his magazine on the front of my truck. So when I. When he jumps out, and I see, crap, that dude's got a gun in his hand. I go to lay down, but I had the F150 with the big center console, so I couldn't get down. Down. So I kicked it into reverse, stabbed the gas, and that's when the first round came through the top of the windshield. And I saw the round come through. I'm like, oh, crap. Second round. He was using a 9 millimeter. Second round came through and hit me in the neck, took off the lower part of my ear, went through the neck and lodged at my spine.

[Jimmy]

Jesus Christ.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah, that's what I thought. No, I'm in a bad spot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've already been hit once. I can't stay there. So I bail out. And he jumped back in his SUV because he got into lock back and took off. So now you.

[Jimmy]

Like, how. How functional are you at this point?

[Gary Windheim]

Fully functional.

[Jimmy]

Okay. Did you. Did you.

[Gary Windheim]

I was wearing a vest.

[Jimmy]

Did you. Did you think to, you know, start shooting back, or were you just like, hey, I'm driving this truck.

[Gary Windheim]

The minute I laid down, the first thought is I'm laying on my pistol because, you know, I lean over to the right, and it's like, I can't, because I'd have to. I'd sent rounds back through the windshield. Right. But my. My first thought when he. He's obviously got the drawdown on me. You know, law enforcement gunfights, we're always at the back end of it, aren't we?

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

And the bad guy is. Is setting the action that we get to react to.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

So I'm already behind the curve as soon as he jumps out and starts dumping rounds on the front of my truck. So I got out to engage him. I really wish he'd have stayed. He ran out, so he went to lock back. That's why he left. I wish he'd have stayed. Reloaded, we could have, you know, figured it out. Yeah, we could have worked that out. He jumped in, SUV and took off. I'm not chasing him. I've got other things to worry about.

[Jimmy]

Like, do I have a hemostat?

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah, my. And my first thought is, you can't tourniquet this. So I'm like, how bad am I leaking?

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

Well, there's a lady who'd pulled in behind my truck. She actually saw something going on, so she pulled over to the side of the road, and I. When I started backing up, almost backed into her truck. So I walked over to her, and she. She put her window down. She got her phone. She say, I'm on the phone with 91 1. I said, Ma', am, I've got everybody coming. Don't worry about that. I just need to know how Bad am I leaking? You know, do I need to stick my thumb in somewhere? And she's like well it's not pouring out. That's a good sign. So I put a jacket on it and about that time everybody showed up the cavalry.

[Jimmy]

So about how long from the time you. Because I'm assuming you got on the radio at some right away.

[Gary Windheim]

So yeah. My. My first is Eustace. I've been shot. I've been shot in the neck. I need EMS send me. Send more units. And I described the vehicle and the direction that he fled.

[Jimmy]

So you two guys hear that over the radio? What is what's going through your mind if you're. If you hear that come over the radio.

[Co-host Mike]

That's tribe as reckless as possible without taking myself out of that like crashing. But yeah you're going. That's.

[Jimmy]

That's no question.

[Co-host Mike]

That's the one you don't want to hear. And that's the one.

[Gary Windheim]

That's the.

[Co-host Mike]

You're.

[Jimmy]

And this is broad daylight.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

It was 12 o' clock in the afternoon. Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Very. I mean most cops go their whole career without ever hearing something like that on the radio.

[Gary Windheim]

You don't want to.

[Host Mike]

Right. Yeah.

[Jimmy]

I mean kids. So I mean I imagine.

[Host Mike]

I know your voice octaves were probably through the roof.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah. I mean I've got the radio transmissions and all and it's like it's actually. I'm sorry. Surprisingly calm. It's.

[Jimmy]

That doesn't.

[Co-host Mike]

FBI Academy calms you down.

[Gary Windheim]

I didn't get to go.

[Jimmy]

Oh that's right. Damn it.

[Gary Windheim]

No but I other. I did some other leadership classes so. And I was command staff. So.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

And then we'll speed through that when the ultimately he's no longer with us.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah he. He fled into a junkyard, ran off into the woods. We're still in Lake county but Marion county at the time had a helicopter that they're their optics. Yeah fantastic. It's. And they did a. They did a show on this Marion.

[Jimmy]

County Sheriffs are awesome.

[Host Mike]

Oh yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

So they showed up with their helicopter and found him hiding and in the woods directed in the SWAT team to him he still laid down with the gun. Didn't want to give up so they took care of fight he one sided.

[Jimmy]

Oh it was just a one way.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Okay.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

When you shoot one.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

You've already shot a cop. So I remember. I think I remember remember this as they found them in the woods right.

[Gary Windheim]

And they.

[Jimmy]

And there was like 15 of them. What year was this?

[Gary Windheim]

2019.

[Jimmy]

Okay. Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

Hundreds yeah, they showed up.

[Jimmy]

Freaking unload.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

Oh, yeah. And it's on. It's like helicopter cops or something. It's a TV show because they're like.

[Jimmy]

Basically like online and almost like a semi circle around this dude and just.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

There was two teams that had converted on him, but.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

And I know they just re. Aired the thing because the V. I got the call so. Good. Whenever they re. Air those things and my phone.

[Co-host Mike]

You want to see the rest of it? Go to Copville. YouTube and you can watch his whole episode over there. It's terrible, right?

[Jimmy]

What did you say?

[Co-host Mike]

It was terrible episode.

[Gary Windheim]

Terrible.

[Jimmy]

So. So after you get. You talk to this lady.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

And you go like, well, I'm not dead. I'm. You know, it's a necklace. Probably gonna bleed a lot. What happens next?

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Okay.

[Gary Windheim]

Pissed you. Nobody wants to get shot, but. And didn't hurt. Everyone asked me. Did hurt? No, didn't hurt. Felt like somebody punched me in the.

[Jimmy]

Neck when I got. When I got tagged up here. It felt like somebody hit me in the head with a bat.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

It just cracked you.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

And you got that minute of whoa. That. That sucked.

[Co-host Mike]

Well, but you were wearing a vest. I was, but we're gonna transition to a guy that wasn't wearing no pants.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

In his official capacity. Lewis, can you go to that video? And I sent it to. I love this anti hero. This was a Detroit police officer going to virtual court. Virtual court through zoom.

[Host Mike]

Okay.

[Co-host Mike]

Right above there. That next one up, that video. It's right there. Oh, yep.

[Host Mike]

Please. Yes. Officer Jackson, batch number 39. 19 out of 12 precinct.

[Co-host Mike]

As you can see, it's blurred.

[Gary Windheim]

The look on his face.

[Host Mike]

You got.

[Jimmy]

You got some pants on, Officer Cop.

[Host Mike]

No, sir.

[Jimmy]

Miss Lee. That's it.

[Co-host Mike]

So as you.

[Host Mike]

Is that it?

[Co-host Mike]

That's it.

[Host Mike]

All right.

[Co-host Mike]

I mean, that's.

[Gary Windheim]

That's.

[Jimmy]

Wait, wait.

[Host Mike]

Okay. Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

No pants.

[Host Mike]

I love.

[Co-host Mike]

There's a lot.

[Host Mike]

There's a lot of gauged.

[Co-host Mike]

There's a lot of angles to go with that one.

[Gary Windheim]

Love this.

[Co-host Mike]

That's Detroit.

[Host Mike]

How do you go on a. How do you go on court?

[Co-host Mike]

All I can think is he thought it was zoomed in enough that it was just gonna be like you could.

[Host Mike]

See what's on his screen.

[Co-host Mike]

I. I don't know.

[Host Mike]

I mean, that almost sounds. That almost looks like he lost a bet. And they were like, dude, you won't get.

[Co-host Mike]

You gotta go to court with your pants on, dude.

[Host Mike]

I'm telling you. Like. Yeah, like, look at. Stand up, Mike. This is how this Guy dressed. But for real, this guy had nothing on.

[Co-host Mike]

It was blurred.

[Host Mike]

Like he had his balls hanging out.

[Gary Windheim]

No, he was wearing boxers.

[Host Mike]

Boxers. Yeah. But like, you would feel. Look how goofy you feel right now.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, I feel terrible.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah. We should blur him, honestly.

[Co-host Mike]

So. I mean, I almost wore just underwear. I was.

[Host Mike]

I was gonna.

[Co-host Mike]

But I'm not. I'm not. Well, I mean, well off enough to do. Pull that one off.

[Host Mike]

I just feel like you're gonna feel. Feel so awkward with no pants on. Like, I feel like when I would put my belt on with no vest or my vest on without no belt, I would. You feel weird. You feel odd. So it's like, what was his mind?

[Gary Windheim]

That's not the first time he's done it.

[Co-host Mike]

No, no.

[Gary Windheim]

And look, not all of us are tech savvy.

[Host Mike]

Is this old? Is this like.

[Co-host Mike]

No, this just happened.

[Host Mike]

Why. Why is. Why are they going to virtual court?

[Gary Windheim]

Still doing.

[Co-host Mike]

Probably to keep overtime down. Still doing driving.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Virtual court's still a thing.

[Host Mike]

I've been a depot virtually, but all that stuff. Traffic.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

I mean, it could have been a depot. Could have been anything. But. Yeah, I mean, we've all seen. I mean, it's gotten bad. There was the one that somebody got caught yanking.

[Gary Windheim]

Are you looking at my.

[Host Mike]

My Alabama Black Snake.

[Co-host Mike]

I don't think he can you say that.

[Host Mike]

That's from Vietnam. That's from Vietnam. That's from a full metal jacket.

[Jimmy]

It ain't too goddamn.

[Co-host Mike]

But yeah. I mean, he looked unshaved.

[Host Mike]

Like.

[Co-host Mike]

He just looks like. Like all around.

[Host Mike]

He did look like. But I don't know. I don't know. Their standards in Detroit. They're not high.

[Gary Windheim]

They can't be, man. They can't be with everything they got going on.

[Co-host Mike]

There's some good guys in Detroit that I know follow us and. And reach out.

[Gary Windheim]

But you know what I love about this guy? His honesty.

[Host Mike]

His don't give a.

[Co-host Mike]

Whatever you're gonna say. No. No.

[Host Mike]

Are you lying in a court?

[Co-host Mike]

I mean, I guess if I did any smiling about podcast I wear. I mean, I haven't done a pocket my underwear yet. Even at my house where I have my own studio, the table's there. I still. I don't know. You're right. It just doesn't feel right.

[Host Mike]

It feels weird. But it's like he said, he's probably done it so many times that it feels right. That's his court. Feeling like I'm sitting at home, I got no pants on. I got a stupid shirt on. I just. I feel like, you would see your image. Image down in some kind of screen, but maybe not. Maybe the software himself.

[Co-host Mike]

I mean, there's a female involved. Like, it's all. It's all there, man. It's all there. You got any pants on? Like, where's your pants? Like, cop.

[Host Mike]

Cop, Dumbass cop.

[Jimmy]

You know, he was shy.

[Co-host Mike]

The judge was just shocked.

[Jimmy]

He was like, what? Yeah. I mean, what is happening?

[Co-host Mike]

I don't know, Di. I don't know.

[Host Mike]

That poor guy is never gonna let that down. You thought it was bad at the range.

[Jimmy]

I mean, assuming that he still has a job.

[Co-host Mike]

He'll be fine.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, it's Detroit.

[Co-host Mike]

He'll be fine. Oh, yeah, yeah, he'll be fine.

[Host Mike]

All right. What's up with. I got you guys talking about Trump testing news.

[Co-host Mike]

I'm sure Jimmy was paying attention to this.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, I was.

[Host Mike]

All right, let's go.

[Jimmy]

All right, well, I mean, here's the deal. Russia has an annual test of their nuclear triad.

[Host Mike]

If nobody knows, how does that mean?

[Jimmy]

The nuclear triad is the three ways that nuclear weapons are delivered. So that would be through ballistic missiles.

[Host Mike]

Land.

[Jimmy]

Right. The other one is through bombers. Right. And then the other is through naval, specifically submarines.

[Host Mike]

Right.

[Jimmy]

So that's your.

[Host Mike]

Wait, what is how. Oh, they would shoot up out of the water.

[Jimmy]

Yes.

[Host Mike]

Okay.

[Jimmy]

Submarines will go deep. You know, like, you ever seen the hunt for Red October?

[Co-host Mike]

That.

[Jimmy]

The Red October was a boomer, man. It was. It was made to launch nuclear weapons in World War iii. So Russia does this every year. Basically, they will launch a ballistic missile that doesn't have any nukes in it. They'll go through the whole process from the president. Like Vladimir Putin says, yes, push the button. And everybody goes through the process of it. Well, at the same time, you know, North Korea is like, we have nukes, too. We'll fire them off. And Russia's like, fine or not Russia. Trump's like, fine. It. Every time you guys launch one, we're gonna launch one. Just. Just for gp. You put a nuclear bomber in the air, we're gonna do it, too. That's all this is. This is just tip for tat. This is just.

[Host Mike]

And you need to do that with this stuff.

[Jimmy]

Well, I was. I was listening to Victor Davis Hansen last night as I was going to bed, who, if you don't know, is a really, really well thought of historian, specifically does World War II. And he said, you know, one of the reasons why the Japanese decided to attack Pearl harbor was because the United States does not do. Did not do a good job. And Historically has not done a good job of showing what deterrence looks like now. We had 20 years of what deterrence looks like now.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

But we historically haven't done it. And Trump's actually pretty good at it. He's pretty good at showing you the stick. Like, hey, bro, we got bombs.

[Co-host Mike]

Really good bombs. They're beautiful.

[Gary Windheim]

They're beautiful bombs. Most beautiful bombs ever.

[Co-host Mike]

I think everybody.

[Host Mike]

I know a lot of bombs.

[Gary Windheim]

I'm friends with a lot of bombs. These are the best bombs. The most beautiful bombs everybody's got.

[Co-host Mike]

I find this interesting, though.

[Gary Windheim]

Easy to do.

[Co-host Mike]

I saw a sound bite or a clip that said China claimed that they could have a nuclear weapon in any city in America in 20 minutes.

[Jimmy]

Oh, you're missing out on the. The. That technically probably true, but, like, is that.

[Co-host Mike]

You think that has anything to do with Trump being in China? And then he says he's going to test.

[Host Mike]

Who's Trump meeting with in China?

[Co-host Mike]

He met the president. He wiped the tariffs. Yeah, 100 tariffs on China.

[Jimmy]

So here's. You got. You're missing out on the big one. Did you know that the USS Nimitz lost two aircraft within 30 minutes? I talked about, you know what, in the South China Sea, a helicopter. And.

[Host Mike]

Wait, what is that? They were shot down.

[Gary Windheim]

Well, no, hold on. How you lose these things?

[Jimmy]

Yeah, they fell out of the sky.

[Host Mike]

Okay.

[Co-host Mike]

They're no longer up.

[Jimmy]

They are no longer in the air. They are.

[Host Mike]

Do they have pilots in them in the sea? Yeah, the pilots.

[Jimmy]

All the air. Air crews were rescued. So within 30 minutes, an FA18 Super Hornet and a Blackhawk both fell out of the sky for unknown reasons. And it's in the South China Sea. And the rumors that. You guys put on your tinfoil hats. Yep.

[Gary Windheim]

I didn't bring one.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

Damn it.

[Host Mike]

That China.

[Jimmy]

China shot them both down with a laser.

[Gary Windheim]

A laser?

[Jimmy]

A laser.

[Gary Windheim]

A laser.

[Jimmy]

I mean, and that's why Trump came out and was like, we think it's a fuel problem. We have nothing to hide. And now he's in China. Tariffs are waived. That's. That's the big. That's the bit. Long pole.

[Host Mike]

Wait, so do. Do we know for a fact that other people have that technology?

[Jimmy]

China says that they do. They've tested it.

[Host Mike]

Do we? Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy]

I mean, dude, we were. We're talking about putting them on a destroy. We actually used one from a destroyer. There's a. There's a I. Infrared video of a. Of a Harley Burke destroyer firing a laser at a drone and blowing it out of the sky. So weird. Weird.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, I did see.

[Host Mike]

Wow. So that's just. Okay, so this turn of events is these two aircraft mysteriously fall out of the sky at the.

[Jimmy]

Trump goes in 30 minutes of each other.

[Host Mike]

Within 30 minutes of each other. Over the South China Sea. Yep. Trump. Then a week later.

[Jimmy]

No, no, this. This happened two days ago.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, he happens to be in China. China makes a claim that they can send a nuke anywhere in the world in 20 minutes.

[Jimmy]

And.

[Co-host Mike]

And 20 minutes they can have a nuke anywhere in the world.

[Host Mike]

Did Trump go to China after the aircraft. Was he in China already?

[Gary Windheim]

He's already planning everywhere right now anyways.

[Jimmy]

Right. The trip was planned.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Two days before he shows up. In a day before he shows up in China, 2. Two aircraft fall out of the sky, and China makes a threat that we could have nuclear weapons in your country in 20 minutes, and then the tariffs go away. That's the conspiracy.

[Co-host Mike]

That's the chain of.

[Host Mike]

How is that a conspiracy? That's just common sense. That's probably what happened. That's politics.

[Jimmy]

Is it, though? Because, I mean, like, so when do we let.

[Co-host Mike]

We let. When do we let people shoot our planes down?

[Host Mike]

Well, we're in the South China Sea. Are they over the Atlantic or the Pacific in our area?

[Jimmy]

No, no, they.

[Gary Windheim]

They trying to see.

[Jimmy]

Oh, oh, you mean China.

[Host Mike]

Is it the China Sea?

[Jimmy]

Yeah, the South China Sea.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

South China Sea.

[Host Mike]

Yeah. So we're flying over them if they flew over.

[Jimmy]

Well, that's international waters. I mean, and freedom of navigation.

[Gary Windheim]

Didn't they put a balloon over us?

[Jimmy]

Yeah, yeah, they did do that.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

Like, over the entire country.

[Jimmy]

Not only that, but, like, they've been doing joint exercises off the coast of.

[Gary Windheim]

So why didn't we laser their balloon? Well, different. Well, there's that auto pen. Doesn't reach.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, I mean, like. Like, that guy was basically a turnip.

[Gary Windheim]

Well, he was shaking hands with the flag.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

About to be shaking hands with Jesus. I mean, he is getting up there.

[Co-host Mike]

He's not going there.

[Jimmy]

He's gonna have to shake hands with him regardless.

[Co-host Mike]

Somebody.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, but, I mean, I don't know that I. I feel like with Trump, if it was like, if Xi Jinping came down, was like, yeah, we shot those planes down, Trump would have been like, okay, bet. Well, I. I got something for you.

[Host Mike]

Big.

[Gary Windheim]

Not with China. Not with China.

[Host Mike]

No, we're playing. We're playing smart with China.

[Gary Windheim]

Too big.

[Host Mike]

Yep.

[Gary Windheim]

Too big.

[Host Mike]

Like, they're not a threat. The Russia is not a threat. Like China is.

[Gary Windheim]

No, I don't believe.

[Jimmy]

I. I No, I.

[Co-host Mike]

China's the only threat.

[Host Mike]

Yep.

[Jimmy]

Historically speaking, North Korea, China and Russia both have the same problem, is that they. They historically do not fight well outside of their own country.

[Host Mike]

The Chinese.

[Jimmy]

The Chinese.

[Host Mike]

But their swords and ninja stars can't reach us from there.

[Jimmy]

I mean.

[Co-host Mike]

They'Re actually technology. They just jumped guns and went straight to the lasers. I think they're usually small people, too. Right.

[Jimmy]

I think what we're actually seeing is that this mutually assured destruction idea that Trump has been kind of, you know, banging on the table like, they don't want to trade war with us and we don't want to trade war with.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

Nobody. That's like. Yeah.

[Jimmy]

That doesn't help anybody.

[Co-host Mike]

No.

[Gary Windheim]

Together, those two control the world economy.

[Co-host Mike]

Was like a UFC fight then. You want to see him fight? Other than that, we don't want to see.

[Jimmy]

Why can't we just do like. Did you guys ever see the movie from the 80s, Robot Jocks?

[Host Mike]

No.

[Gary Windheim]

No.

[Jimmy]

Oh, man. It basically.

[Host Mike]

Okay, well, then never mind.

[Jimmy]

So, okay, here's the premise. Instead of wars, they have big robots that fight each other. And your best pilot versus our best pilot, your best robot versus our best robot. And they're like 15 stories tall, and they beat the. Out of each other.

[Host Mike]

And that's how that was.

[Gary Windheim]

That was called Real Steel.

[Host Mike]

Real Steel. Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Robot Jocks did it first. I remember watching.

[Co-host Mike]

Well, they remake everything that show on Saturdays where the kids built a little robot. No, kids built a little. Oh, you're talking about they ran in each other.

[Host Mike]

No, that was like Nickelodeon.

[Jimmy]

That was where Grant Imahara came from.

[Host Mike]

No, but remember. Remember BattleBots? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

That was cool.

[Host Mike]

Yep. Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

So.

[Jimmy]

So, I mean, that's what's going on with the. The nuclear stuff right now. I mean, Trump. I mean, it's just nobody.

[Co-host Mike]

I think the economy's coming back.

[Jimmy]

Yeah. Freaking fed up.

[Co-host Mike]

The interest rates. We're coming. Those are coming down.

[Jimmy]

Wait, I mean, did you see how much Halloween candy is? No, Halloween candy is ridiculous.

[Host Mike]

We just bought.

[Gary Windheim]

I live in an old person.

[Co-host Mike]

I have an old person neighborhood where I don't have to worry about it.

[Host Mike]

I want to come over and get out candy. Nope.

[Co-host Mike]

I'll be at the poker room.

[Jimmy]

Ebony's are screwed.

[Gary Windheim]

Hooking up the camper tomorrow. I'm gone.

[Host Mike]

There you go. Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

Retired command.

[Host Mike]

We got too many kids at our house.

[Jimmy]

I got too many kids in my house.

[Host Mike]

Yeah. Halloween is. It's like a festival. And our. We live in suburbia, dude. We're talking like hundreds, if not a thousand. Kids roaming around everywhere.

[Jimmy]

Did you guys see the video where DJ Shipley got. Not DJ AQ Shipley. AQ Shipley on the Pat McAfee Show. Got all of his wedding decorations stolen in the middle of the night.

[Host Mike]

Wedding decorations?

[Jimmy]

Halloween decorations. I'm sorry, Bill.

[Co-host Mike]

Long morning.

[Host Mike]

No, no. Is that. Who's A.K. shipley?

[Jimmy]

AQ Shipley. Was he. He's one of the guys on the McAfee, a big guy, was a center. We played in Tampa for a while.

[Host Mike]

Jimmy thinks that we should talk sports Monday nights.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, we can talk sports on here.

[Host Mike]

I mean, it's Thursday during the day. There's really not much to talk. Yeah, no, no. And.

[Co-host Mike]

Well, you got tonight's game.

[Jimmy]

Tonight's game.

[Co-host Mike]

But I have no idea who plays tonight.

[Jimmy]

I don't care. But I. I just was along the lines of like, criminals stealing Halloween decorations. Like, how do you wait till tomorrow?

[Host Mike]

That happens all the time tomorrow. Well, I'm just. Just sticking to how. I guarantee you a lot of day shift cops will be going to houses to tomorrow because of stuff stolen tonight. It happens during Christmas. I'm the type of guy where I'm not gonna notice until I'm putting it away. I'm like, where'd all this go?

[Jimmy]

Shipley? He was like, dude, I Woke up at 7 o' clock in the morning. My daughter was like, the skeleton's gone and the other one's broken and. And Halloween is ruined. And he's like, what. What is happening right now? And he had a ring camera of these guys taking it away. And he's like, I'm pretty sure it was the frat guys from.

[Co-host Mike]

From the college.

[Host Mike]

Well, speaking of sports, on the Counterculture Inc. Network, we have on Monday nights, we have sports with canine. Counterculture sports. The canine. He actually had his first professional sports guest. Retired baseball player.

[Co-host Mike]

Yes, yes, that was on Monday's episode. Yeah, we're getting there. I'm trying to get him over on a Monday. He's actually off on Mondays. I'm trying to drag him over to come on here and push his show. But he does a good job, very knowledgeable on sports and good story too.

[Jimmy]

From.

[Host Mike]

He's just a lovable character. I. I like watching podcasts delivered by the host and canine is just. He's. Hey, man. Man, he's so cool. Like, I just like. He's like. He's a good host.

[Jimmy]

All right.

[Host Mike]

What else we got?

[Co-host Mike]

See Boiling Water Detroit.

[Host Mike]

That's it, guys.

[Co-host Mike]

Let me see if there's anything developing that we can break.

[Host Mike]

I did the did the monkey story and any developing in the monkey story.

[Jimmy]

I mean dirt.

[Co-host Mike]

Let's.

[Jimmy]

Let's take a look.

[Gary Windheim]

And you're still a no with eliminating diseased monkeys.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Now Mike's an animal lover. Even if so carry diseases.

[Gary Windheim]

So am I.

[Host Mike]

What if a monkey was attacking a human? Would you eliminate it then? Mike? I'll grab it.

[Gary Windheim]

Which human?

[Host Mike]

Any human.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah, it depends on which one.

[Host Mike]

I mean have you seen the one where the chimp pretty much tears the face off of.

[Co-host Mike]

We're getting different, we're getting bigger. You're talking these little things that they're like little.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah, they're hard to hit. You need buckshot lasers.

[Jimmy]

Well, I mean I. How many videos of there are cops killing raccoons and possums that have brains.

[Gary Windheim]

You never had to dispatch an animal when you were on Really?

[Co-host Mike]

I killed alligators. I mean I went alligator hunt.

[Jimmy]

Well, alligators not.

[Co-host Mike]

As I looked at before.

[Host Mike]

He was now a social.

[Co-host Mike]

As I look at the story now, it says large alligator seen with dog in his mouth in Florida. Like I don't want to worry about that.

[Host Mike]

Yeah. Oh, so who do you pick now, Mike? You're two animals.

[Co-host Mike]

Alligators gotta go, dude. When we hunted alligators and I.

[Host Mike]

Well, okay, well I will say this about alligators when. When somebody. I don't feel bad when someone kills like a six or seven footer but man, when you get a prehistoric beast, a 14 footer and they're like yeah, we just killed it. And I'm like, I. There's a part of me that's like yes, this cannot be in suburbia, but it's also.

[Jimmy]

It survives.

[Host Mike]

So dude, that's just. It's been. It's probably like 60 years old. More than that, dude. We just.

[Co-host Mike]

They got turtles that. They got a turtle that's like 300 years old, dude.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, but turtles don't eat people.

[Co-host Mike]

No, they could. I mean in your world, everybody all animals or could kill somebody. You got to give it elbow strikes if it comes near you. 300 year old turtle strike.

[Jimmy]

If there's a hurricane though. I mean think about how many alligators get launched into people's houses and yards during hurricanes.

[Host Mike]

Is this a movie?

[Jimmy]

No, it's a real life thing.

[Host Mike]

Hurricanes do not launch.

[Co-host Mike]

They launch two Cherokees. Of course they do.

[Jimmy]

What are you talking about?

[Co-host Mike]

That killed it. Cuz that's how fish end up all over the place. Damn place. They blow around. They end up in your like fish.

[Host Mike]

Versus a 300 pound alligator.

[Co-host Mike]

Dude. They throw it's 250 miles per hour wind. Sometimes they can move a.

[Host Mike]

Did you see the eye? The AI in Jamaica people are saying that. Dude, the comments are amazing. So somebody made an AI video of Jamaica. They're getting. They just got destroyed on. And there's sharks swimming up the streets. It looks real until you really look at it. And like, that's the same concept as alligators flying like sharks.

[Co-host Mike]

They can fly.

[Host Mike]

All right, can anybody verify that that's actually happened before? That an alligator has been verified thrown from a hurricane into somebody's yard?

[Co-host Mike]

I'm sure it has because we.

[Host Mike]

We've found out recently they can climb fences. That.

[Co-host Mike]

That's not crocodile.

[Gary Windheim]

That's.

[Jimmy]

That's not new. We know.

[Gary Windheim]

We do have a friend who was attacked by a sea turtle. So.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah, see.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Gary Windheim]

Attempted to mate him.

[Co-host Mike]

Elbow strikes. Distractionary blows.

[Gary Windheim]

It's a true story.

[Host Mike]

Croc, NATO.

[Jimmy]

Let's see here.

[Co-host Mike]

Sal just text me during hurricane. Why did Tyler dress up like me?

[Host Mike]

We're in the same boat, brother.

[Co-host Mike]

Next week we'll have Jack on both week. Both days. Jackson Town.

[Host Mike]

So we have a. We have a convict on tonight's the night Shift.

[Co-host Mike]

Yes, we have former trafficker and pill.

[Host Mike]

Mill target of Mike. Mike's arch.

[Co-host Mike]

I didn't actually target him, so. But he thought I did, so that'll be interesting.

[Host Mike]

He's the one that ran counter on you. Yeah. That's crazy, dude.

[Co-host Mike]

So we'll have him on tonight. He was going to talk about some of his adventures in the trafficking world and he's gonna do a lot of recorded show for me next for next week.

[Jimmy]

By trafficking, you don't mean. You mean people are.

[Gary Windheim]

Drugs.

[Co-host Mike]

Drugs.

[Host Mike]

Yeah. We wouldn't be having people. Traffickers in here. No.

[Co-host Mike]

Traffic.

[Host Mike]

What?

[Jimmy]

Dude, when I hear traffickers these days, it's always humans.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, because drug capping is just dropped to possession nowadays.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, well, that.

[Gary Windheim]

Unless.

[Jimmy]

Unless you're trafficking it across the international body of water and then you can get a drone on your head.

[Host Mike]

Well, that or you can. You can be trapped. You can be. I. I knew soldiers. We had a guy on here on. On anti hero once who had. He had steroids. He was in the military and he got hit with international drug trafficking because he brought it from Iraq back home. And it was a mixture because he did have prescription testosterone. But he also.

[Gary Windheim]

Like.

[Host Mike]

I did have like. We were all doing it. I was just a dumbass that brought it back and got caught and international drug trafficking. What are you guys looking at? You guys trying to find.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, I'm looking for Alligators just thrown. And there's a great.

[Host Mike]

There's.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, but I mean, they are. They obviously. Okay, so maybe they're not flying through the air, but they are obviously backing out.

[Host Mike]

Micah, you still gonna stand by that?

[Gary Windheim]

They're flying.

[Co-host Mike]

There's an alligator that was in Orange county, and he's like, bro, how'd I get in Vero beach, man?

[Host Mike]

He's like, to have been sucked up by a funnel first and then launched into the hurricane and then displaced with a hurricane into another guy.

[Gary Windheim]

But a lot of things to have to happen.

[Jimmy]

Okay. All right, so this is your Black Swan event, Rob.

[Co-host Mike]

They say they let. We say we landed on the moon too, but a lot of things had to happen.

[Jimmy]

Hey, look, I'm. I. I get down with a lot of conspiracy theories, just not that one. But obviously, during flash flooding and everything else, alligators will be washed out of wherever it was that they were residing. People's homes.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, they have.

[Gary Windheim]

We just had flash flooding, 2, 300 pounds this week in Lake County. There were no alligators.

[Jimmy]

Really?

[Host Mike]

Yeah. Not a one.

[Gary Windheim]

Not one.

[Co-host Mike]

Canes move cars.

[Host Mike]

You guys are all just going off of sci fi movies.

[Jimmy]

Maybe they. Maybe they just. Maybe alligators are just cool like that. Maybe they're just chill.

[Co-host Mike]

I think they're really good.

[Host Mike]

They have nests. They don't. They don't just like, float in the water and go, hey, whatever it takes me. Like, they. Yeah, they have homes.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

So they're like, hey, I gotta. I need to go back home. I may have been. I mean, there's been alligators, like, going up and ringing people's doors.

[Host Mike]

What we don't do is they're not like sharks. They're actually nooses kind of in. In Florida. And so we don't tag them. I'm sure they do, but it's not a cool thing. Like, are they.

[Jimmy]

That's my point.

[Gary Windheim]

They're delicious.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, but you can't get them bigger than, like, five feet. Otherwise, it's not good.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah, it's true.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, that's. That's why killing the big ones makes no sense to me.

[Host Mike]

Wait, so what, you can't. You're not allowed to kill anything you want?

[Gary Windheim]

You can eat them, but they're not good to eat.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah. Florida does, like, a lottery. You put in for, like, a permit, and then you went like, a lottery goes off, and then you're not. If you either select or not, then you get to hunt a certain water at a certain time. Yeah, but you only get two, and you can't like catch them, though, and go. I don't want this. When I throw it back, it's like a fish. It's yours.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Especially wildlife. Especially in Marion County. Like, they are not the people to with because there are a lot of people out there that are catching gators illegally.

[Gary Windheim]

They will take your. They are the one law enforcement agency that will take your shit.

[Host Mike]

Right.

[Jimmy]

Civilization.

[Gary Windheim]

I'm gonna need your poles. I'm gonna need your truck shoes.

[Host Mike]

Is there a special tool that you use to kill alligators? You just hit him in the head.

[Gary Windheim]

It's 12 gauge.

[Jimmy]

12 gauge on a stick.

[Host Mike]

Well, you can.

[Co-host Mike]

We used to 357 plus P. But.

[Host Mike]

You catch them and then snag it.

[Co-host Mike]

What I did was you snagging with a big treble hook and a fishing pole. Then you harpoon them with like a metal lead, like milk jugs.

[Host Mike]

And.

[Co-host Mike]

And then you just follow.

[Gary Windheim]

But he won't shoot a monkey.

[Jimmy]

That are actually good eating. You can just pin them down over the top of a mouth. Put a knife. Right. I've. I've lived in. I lived in Ocala. Not even Ocala. I lived at Spar.

[Host Mike]

If you don't know what you're into.

[Jimmy]

Okay, so Mike is.

[Gary Windheim]

Yes, you did.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Mike is an animal lover. Jimmy's the guy that will take the family dog out back because it's cheaper than taking him to the vet.

[Co-host Mike]

And he was in the army. He like.

[Jimmy]

Tell.

[Co-host Mike]

Tell them what you did.

[Jimmy]

I was. Or I went to the live tissue trainer. So they put pigs under general anesthesia and they shoot them and stab them and everything. And you've got to keep.

[Gary Windheim]

Right, right.

[Co-host Mike]

And they're bro.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, that's the thing.

[Gary Windheim]

Training on people is frowned upon.

[Jimmy]

You can't even do that to pedophiles. Right.

[Host Mike]

I'm down for it. We're potential petitioning to take all animal. Live animal training, whether it be for cosmetics or war.

[Co-host Mike]

Pedophiles.

[Jimmy]

If.

[Host Mike]

I mean, because death row inmates have it. Nice.

[Co-host Mike]

Beautiful.

[Host Mike]

Because they're. But death row inmate. Really. That's what I would say. Pedophiles. Convicted pedophiles.

[Co-host Mike]

They have it the worst. They're.

[Host Mike]

No, but we use them for. Yes. And if they live through it, then they. They can stay incarcerated forever.

[Co-host Mike]

No, we do it again.

[Jimmy]

There's no double jeopardy.

[Co-host Mike]

We bring their family in. Don't live through it. The family of the victim in to finish it off.

[Jimmy]

Jesus Christ. I mean, hey, they tell you when you go to the live tissue trainer, like, this pig's gonna die.

[Co-host Mike]

Yeah. Because you're killing. You're blowing it up.

[Jimmy]

I'm not doing anything. I'm the one that's rendering.

[Host Mike]

While they're giving instructions, Jimmy's killing it. They're like, right now, dude, they just.

[Gary Windheim]

Maim the pig and then hand.

[Jimmy]

The first day. The first day, we had a guy who was a. An 18 Delta as a special forces medic. And he comes in and he's like, all right, so the pig's under general anesthesia. And he's like, all right, guys, first thing we're going to do today is we're gonna learn how to work on a femoral artery. He pulls out a knife and slashes open its femoral artery right there. Blood goes shooting across the GP medium tent. He's like, what the are you looking at? Fix it. That was day one.

[Gary Windheim]

This is what our government's doing.

[Co-host Mike]

That's terrible.

[Jimmy]

And. And it, dude, best.

[Host Mike]

Did it save lives on the battlefield?

[Jimmy]

100.

[Gary Windheim]

There you go.

[Jimmy]

That pig probably saved several.

[Gary Windheim]

Did you have a pig roast that night?

[Jimmy]

No, they won't let us eat them because they've shot them and.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

They've stabbed them and blown them up and they're full of bullets and everything else.

[Host Mike]

So I think that should be a right of passion.

[Co-host Mike]

Remember, let's eat it. We're warriors. We're soldiers.

[Host Mike]

Yeah, you gotta eat them. I want some bucking, though.

[Co-host Mike]

Noah loaded two pigs on that ark.

[Host Mike]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

Didn't say blow them up. Didn't say smash their arteries. Noah said, let's put them on here.

[Jimmy]

Because, you know, he brought the mosquitoes too, so.

[Host Mike]

And wasps and hornets, cockroaches.

[Jimmy]

There's plenty of stuff that got on Noah's ark that I'm not so happy with at all.

[Host Mike]

Nope. You don't need to work.

[Co-host Mike]

No, I won't touch it.

[Host Mike]

Why?

[Co-host Mike]

Because of that. I did the pigs. I got into the reels one night, and all of it was for an hour was pigs at the slaughterhouse and running out of.

[Host Mike]

So more chickens gotta die.

[Co-host Mike]

I didn't see it, dude.

[Host Mike]

I. I give it. I give it six months before blown vegetarian.

[Jimmy]

I gotta. I got a one planner.

[Co-host Mike]

I'm.

[Jimmy]

I'm getting rid of cashews. I'm getting rid of pork too, but it. I'm getting rid of it for religious reasons.

[Host Mike]

Mike's gonna be one of those guys claiming to get 200 grams of protein a day off his yogurt.

[Co-host Mike]

And green protein, bro. It's plant based. 28 grams of yogurt or protein in a serving. 400.

[Host Mike]

Okay.

[Co-host Mike]

400.

[Host Mike]

Grams of you think maybe they're lying to you.

[Co-host Mike]

They're lying to you about why they're killing those pigs, too.

[Gary Windheim]

Man, if there's not bacon on the plate, it's not breakfast.

[Jimmy]

Dude. Man, I, I. Dude, I love bacon.

[Co-host Mike]

Very good.

[Jimmy]

I love sausage. Yeah, it's terrible. You know, I got. I got to do what the Lord says on this one. Like, I hate this one.

[Host Mike]

God, but.

[Jimmy]

All right, I get it.

[Host Mike]

All right, we'll wrap it up. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much, sir.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Host Mike]

Thanks for having me on.

[Jimmy]

Coming on.

[Co-host Mike]

Make sure you check out Gary's episode on Locked up with Cobville. Gives you all the details of those other incidents. Also breaks down the failure of administration when it comes to mental health, which is a huge problem. Lost more law enforcement. And tonight, 8pm you'll have this on the night shift on counterculture.

[Host Mike]

Join us. We'll be here tonight and then Monday, we'll be back 11am if you could, man. If you like the show. Tell your friends we're growing.

[Jimmy]

Tell a friend. Be a friend.

[Host Mike]

And I just want to thank Jimmy for showing up.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Host Mike]

Yeah. Appreciate it, Jimmy.

[Gary Windheim]

Yeah.

[Co-host Mike]

No, I'm not. No, I don't have shoulder pads on. Somebody was talking.

[Gary Windheim]

This is me.

[Host Mike]

All right, guys, we'll see you tonight. Thanks. Later. SA Team for life.

[Gary Windheim]

Sam. SA.