From Rangers To DELTA FORCE (Josh Burton of Elevated Operator)

Summary

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The Antihero Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: From Rangers To DELTA FORCE (Josh Burton of Elevated Operator)
Date: August 25, 2025
Host: The Antihero Podcast
Guest: Josh Burton, founder of Elevated Operator, former Army Ranger, Delta Force operator

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the life and career of Josh Burton, tracing his journey from a troubled Ohio youth to Army Ranger, through Delta Force (“the Unit”), and ultimately into entrepreneurship and advocacy for operator wellness. The conversation is full of irreverent humor, soldierly candor, and honest reflections on military life, transition struggles, and personal growth. Josh shares war stories, lessons learned from elite units, the impact of plant medicines on mental health, why he left the military when he did, and his new life with Elevated Operator.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life and Getting into the Rangers

• Troubled Youth to Ranger: Josh grew up in small-town Ohio, got in legal trouble (GTA), and joined the Army in 1994 via a Ranger contract with advice from his WWII vet grandfather:
  “Join the hardest outfit they'll let you get into.” [10:50]
• Narrow Escape: Almost ended up in jail but was sent to the Army thanks to a sympathetic judge and Marine detective. [12:06]

2. Ranger Regiment Experience

• From Basic to RIP:
  • Basic Training was chaotic — “This motherfucker's got the drill sergeants in this big drug ring.” [17:49]
  • RIP (Ranger Indoctrination Program) was brutal; half the class dropped out.
    “It was three weeks of non-stop getting scuffed up, but it was what I needed.” [26:11]
• Ranger School:
  • Explained the three phases (Benning, Dahlonega/Mountain, Florida/Swamp).
  • “Sleep, sleep and inflammation in your body is the root cause of everything. It really is.” [106:47]
• Ranger Battalion Culture:
  • Not a “real” team member until earning the Ranger tab; harsh hazing stories (“Bowling for Privates”).
  • “Back before hazing was a bad thing.” [38:44]
• Leadership Lessons:
  • Was fired as a squad leader for letting hazing go too far, which helped him grow:
    “It was actually really good for me ... I'm the type of person needs a lot of change. Every few years.” [43:48]
  • Stint at LURS (Long Range Surveillance) broadened his network and skills. [44:39]

3. From Ranger Recon (RD/RRC) to Delta Force

• RD Selection & Elite Culture:
  • “You don't really know it until you've done both ... It's a respectable selection. Understatement of the day.” [46:27]
• Overseas Operations:
  • Worked closely with ST6 (SEAL Team 6). Realized respect and mission access required being in the Unit.
  • “The respect equals missions. I know my guys are just as, if not more, capable than half you.” [49:31]
• Transition to Delta/‘The Unit’:
  • First attempted Delta selection at 21; broke his foot and was too immature then. Came back years later, more seasoned and successful:
    “When I was 21 … I was a stud, but I wasn't mentally ready.” [59:00-59:21]
• Unit Culture:
  • Noted the “magic” of the Red House and differences even after high-level SOF experience. [75:32]
  • “There's no place like it; it's a magic place.” [75:34]

4. The Cost of Elite Service & Transition

• Burnout & Health Crisis:
  • Malaria nearly killed him; deployment stress, TBIs, sleep disruption.
  • “I was absolutely 100% ready to leave. ... my time as a team leader was probably my worst time in the Unit just because I was so mentally and physically [worn out].” [77:32]
• Leaving the Mission:
  • “We have got to save guys from themselves.... When it breaks, it's going to break quick, and it's going to be bad.” [82:37]
• Transition Struggles:
  • Post-retirement anxiety, depression, substance abuse (especially during business school in LA):
    “I'd sit in my beach house and drink a handle of vodka a night. ... I was just self-medicating.” [95:32, 96:21]
  • A critical turning point: “Next week will be my one year [sober] anniversary ... It's one of the best decisions I’ve made in my life.” [96:24]

5. Healing, Reinvention, and Elevated Operator

• Academic & Corporate Foray:
  • Finished his undergrad, then earned a Duke MBA with a focus on international business:
    "I went to Duke because they had the best international business program ... [and] because of all the traveling we did in the military." [98:17]
  • Briefly worked at Tesla: “Monday morning I’m signing out of the unit. The next Monday morning I’m signing into Tesla.”
    Experienced intense culture shock and realized he didn't fit corporate life.
• Love and Plant Medicine:
  • Met his wife—in his words, life-saving; started exploring and advocating for plant medicine (psilocybin, ayahuasca, ibogaine).
  • “I really got into plant medicine then. It’s changed my life for the better ... and saved my life.” [102:12]
• Elevated Operator Mission:
  • Founded Elevated Operator to promote holistic wellness—focusing on sleep, diet, and especially plant-based solutions for operator health (e.g., mushroom teas).
  • “I eat a lot of mushrooms for just my own sanity and dealing with society ... I’m gonna be 48 years old next week, and here I am a year later and I am in the best shape of my life.” [106:21]
  • Gave props to Special Operations Care Fund (SOC-F), supporting alternative treatment funding:
    “They are truly saving lives.” [118:28]
• Moderation and Extremes:
  • “There's no moderation in our world ... We're all extremists. Everything we do, we're extremists.” [108:37]
• Product Plug:
  • Night Ops mushroom tea—aids sleep; new day and travel versions now available.
  • “If you're having problems sleeping: Night Ops. The old one-two punch, if you will.” [120:21]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Join the hardest outfit they'll let you get into." — Josh Burton quoting his grandfather [10:50]
• “You’re not really a fully qualified member of the team. And they might let you know it.” — On Ranger Regiment's unique gatekeeping [32:09]
• “Back before hazing was a bad thing.” [38:44]
• "It was actually really good for me, but I'd spent almost six years there, and I'm the type of person who needs a lot of change. Every few years. Ask my ex-wives.” [43:57]
• “The respect equals missions. And so it equals me.” [49:24]
• “I was ready [physically]. But you weren't mentally ready.” [59:20]
• “We have got to save guys from themselves ... When it breaks, it's going to break quick, and it's going to be bad.” [82:37]
• “Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow.” — Host [96:09]
• “Sleep, sleep and inflammation in your body is the root cause of everything.” [106:47]
• “There's no moderation in our world ... Everything we do, we're extremists.” [108:37]
• “You learn, you earn, and then you return.” — Quoting Denzel Washington on life philosophy [117:38]

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Timed Breakdown of Important Segments

• 00:00–09:00 – Banter, sponsor mentions, and guest introduction.
• 09:21–13:31 – Josh's route to the Army and the Rangers—teen rebellion, his grandfather's advice, and near-miss with jail.
• 14:01–27:36 – Basic, RIP, and early Ranger experiences; adapting to military life.
• 27:53–44:39 – Ranger School, battalion life, hazing, and leadership challenges; moving around within the Army.
• 44:39–56:12 – RD/RRC selection; the drive to excel; transition to Delta Force; first failed Delta selection attempt and lessons.
• 56:12–77:32 – Getting into Delta/the Unit; OTC challenges; unit culture; career satisfaction and burnout.
• 77:32–84:23 – Health crisis (malaria, TBIs) leads to retirement; mental health in transition.
• 84:23–90:49 – Post-military journey: undergrad, Duke MBA, work at Tesla, and the mismatch with civilian/corporate life.
• 91:05–102:12 – Coping with transition; substance abuse, loneliness, and finding purpose.
• 102:12–113:38 – Discovering plant medicine, healing, meeting his wife, and founding Elevated Operator.
• 113:39–120:39 – Details on Elevated Operator products, philosophy, and support for veteran-focused nonprofits.
• 120:47–126:36 – Closing story: Josh’s encounter with small-town police after accidentally running over a cat (with a punchline twist).

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Tone and Style

The conversation is lively, darkly humorous, and raw—full of friendly ball-busting, explicit language, and vulnerable reflections. The tone oscillates from laughter about military hijinks to sober admissions of pain, trauma, and the drive for personal transformation.

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Further Listening

• For more on post-military wellness and operator transition, check out Josh Burton’s work at Elevated Operator.
• Learn about alternative therapies for veterans at Special Operations Care Fund (SOC-F).

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This summary was created to provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the episode. All key themes, personal stories, and product mentions are included for your engagement and context.

Transcript

[A]

That was fun time, man.

[B]

Oh, those were. Those are really, really fun, fun parties.

[A]

But you guys were actually. People probably don't know that about you. You're a good karaoke singer. You can rock it out.

[B]

It's it. I'm really good. Unfortunately, there are also some videos of out there. Not every song's my song.

[A]

Yeah, you know, we all got those songs. Especially in the car. By yourself?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Or heck, maybe not every night's my night.

[C]

It.

[B]

It depends.

[C]

Hold on.

[D]

We're. Do you want to buy a shirt to support military dance? People want to see their sausage get made.

[B]

An appropriate level of inappropriateness. Something happens in my family tonight. The Delta Force isn't coming to rescue my. My family, my kids. Like it is first responders that are. That are going to save my family.

[D]

They want the culture to be down. They want people to not want to be cops. And the people that do want to be cops are now walking into the job scared to do the job.

[B]

I'm gonna try to act like it didn't happen, although we. We all know it did.

[C]

JV team for life.

[B]

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[C]

JV Team for life.

[A]

We are recording, so whenever you guys want to begin.

[D]

I don't like it when he tells me what to do, so I'm gonna wait.

[A]

You guys like to, you know, talk, maybe ask questions a little bit about what you're gonna do and then we'll get going. Tyler, do we need the glasses?

[C]

Brad.

[D]

This is a dawn of a new age. You know who you look like?

[B]

Look at that.

[C]

I was right there.

[B]

Look at that.

[D]

Know who you look like?

[B]

So close.

[D]

Who's the. Oh, who's the ranger turned musician that was in the Blackhawk down documentary?

[B]

Kenny.

[D]

Yeah, you kind of look like him.

[A]

Kenny Thomas.

[C]

All right.

[A]

He got.

[D]

He got mad at us once in the comments for.

[B]

Oh, what do we. What do we do?

[D]

I cannot remember. It was like Marcus Luttrell or something and he was.

[B]

Oh, yeah, he'll get over him. Are you not of. Of reader's age?

[D]

Oh, I have. Oh, no, I can see clo. I can see up close.

[C]

Far.

[D]

I can't Read. I can't read. I can't read that tv. Like, when I read comments, I have to use them for my phone.

[B]

That's right. I knew that's where you have your phone up how long? So you have glasses? I'm gonna screw this up. Is that called. Is that far? Is it farsighted when you can only see far or when you can't see far? I never question near sighted or farsighted.

[D]

I think near sight is when you can see close but you can't see far.

[A]

Drew blind since I was a kid and I still don't know the difference.

[B]

Okay, there we go.

[A]

We got things mystery. We're overthinking it.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

Have you always been that way, Tyler?

[D]

Yeah, since school. I couldn't see the board, so.

[B]

Oh, really?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That was the same way.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

When I was a cop, I couldn't read. Like, I had to have a pair of glasses because I couldn't read license plates.

[B]

I don't remember ever seeing you with glasses on, though.

[D]

Yeah, I like to function without them.

[B]

But you do contacts.

[D]

I can't do contacts. I rubbed my eyes too.

[B]

Josh, you do contacts?

[A]

I did as a kid, and then I made the army give me the surgery.

[D]

Oh, I would love to do that.

[A]

Yeah, I couldn't see the board at school either because of all the girls.

[B]

I don't think anyone can hear you, Drew.

[A]

Oh, cuz they're all so fat. Am I talking?

[B]

No, you're not talking in a microphone at all.

[A]

You guys don't have headphones on?

[D]

No, for the recording.

[B]

Yeah, for the recording. We're still recording.

[D]

I think they probably get you. They can get it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Drew wants to stay.

[D]

Drew says I couldn't see the board because I was a dork. He couldn't see the board because he was looking at chicks.

[C]

All right. You all right?

[B]

Come on, come on, come on, come on.

[D]

Welcome back to the Anti Hero podcast. Part Delta Force, part street cop. All truth. I'm Tyler, owner of Counterculture, Inc. Threads, go to countercultureincthreads.com use promo code Anti Hero and save 15 off the best encounter culture. Graphic tees, sticker hats, team room flags, ranger panties, zip up hoodies. You need it. We got it. Counterculture Inc. Threads.com promo code anti hero save 15%.

[B]

And we're gonna edit this. A little bit of.

[C]

Little bit of.

[A]

No, we're not.

[B]

If I'll make it long enough to where you're gonna want to edit it. Have to edit it like hardball, huh? All right.

[A]

Look like you're starting a crack pipe.

[B]

Your position there, Drew. What do you know about crack pipes?

[A]

I watch tv.

[B]

What you know about cracks? What's as much as I know about crack?

[A]

I have. I have a couple black friends. Are you gonna edit that out?

[D]

I don't know.

[B]

I grew up in Sanford.

[C]

Tyler.

[A]

Going already? We can't.

[D]

We don't know why we can't get on SiriusXM.

[B]

Josh, if you just want to come back for the live, I understand, but it won't get better for the live.

[A]

Well, hey, if it's any consolation, on the way here, I passed Florida, man. 1, 2 and 3 right down the street.

[C]

Oh, yeah, they're.

[B]

They're close to us. And, And I'm Brent Tucker, owner of FRCC. That's First Responder Coffee, Cigar and Cask Company. Go to frcc.shop and use promo code FRCC15. That's FRCC15. To get 15 off the world's best coffee, cigars and bourbon.

[D]

And of course, this episode is brought to you by Human Performance TRT. Go to hp-trt.com and use promo code HERO and save 20% not only off your initial purchase, but every single month you're a member with HPTRT, you'll save 20%. If you've gotten blood work done by your private doctor or the va, you could submit that blood work and they'll waive all the lab costs for you.

[C]

We.

[D]

We take testosterone. Testosterone is very important in our industry, in our way of life. So go to hp-trt.com use promo code HERO, save 20% and get the testosterone that you deserve.

[B]

And please consider supporting us on our Patreon. That definitely helps pay the rent and keep the lights on. We have several different levels to memberships, but in our Patreon, you can direct message us, get behind the scenes footage, join one of our forums. There's a lot to do there. Get extra promotions and discounts. Please consider supporting us via Patreon. And don't forget, every Thursday night at 8pm Eastern is our Thursday night live squadcast. That one's for the boys. Tune in every Thursday night, 8pm Eastern for that with us today. Is that all?

[A]

That's it.

[B]

We've covered it. All right.

[D]

Probably added more on later, but the.

[B]

Our guest with us is Josh Burton. Josh has been a friend of mine for 15 years. Have been that long? 2007.

[A]

Gosh, 2008.

[B]

2008. Yeah, for a hot minute. Josh is a former ranger. I don't hold that against him. I'm still friends with him. Unit member. And he's been. He was. He was one of the first person to give me advice and say, hey, would, you know, you retired? I'm like, yeah. He's like, I don't know what you're gonna do, but everything's gonna be okay. You got any questions, ask me. And I know that sounds so simple, but that was. That was great. You know, I still haven't forgot that. And he's done a lot since retiring, and so we'll. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about his military stuff a little bit. But really, you know, there's. There's a ton of. There's a ton of former special operation guys out there. You can go listen their stories. Yes, they're all unique and they're great, but I don't think we talk enough about the transition work and the guys who have done it right. And you can probably laugh and say, well, I don't know if I did it right. But you. No one does it right right off the bat. But I feel like he got there eventually. Or we'll figure that out. Maybe we'll see where you ended up still alive. So what? And here's. Here's questions that I don't know the answer to. Did you go right into Ranger Bat, or were you somewhere else before that?

[A]

I did.

[B]

I just go right into that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I signed up right out of high school, junior year of high school with a Ranger contract.

[C]

Really? Yeah.

[B]

So you're 22 years old? Junior in high school.

[A]

I did grow up in Ohio, so that's. That's feasible. Just like Florida here.

[B]

That's true.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It is crazy. There's. There's a lot of rednecks in Ohio.

[A]

Yeah, well, we called it Little West Virginia.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And we couldn't be any further apart. North and south, you know, in. In one aspect. But culturally, you know, there could be some. Well, I was about to say culture. It could easily be called Ohio, man. But.

[A]

Yeah, not far behind.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You're not far behind.

[A]

Well, you know, fun fact, you know, almost 10 years ago, when I was at work with you, probably about a quarter of the guys there were from Ohio.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Very high number. And there's a reason for it. Like, everybody wants to get the.

[B]

So why. Why Rangers?

[A]

Is it something.

[B]

You knew that. That I didn't. Because if. If I could do it all over again. I've said it before. I mean, my career worked out the way it should have, but if I could do it over again. I would have went rangers first, but I didn't know any better.

[C]

How.

[A]

I didn't know any better either.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

How'd you luck out then?

[A]

I wouldn't call it luck. It was more advice from my grandfather.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

World War II vet, harder, woodpecker lips, you know, he was Normandy battle, Bastogne, you name it. He was there, man, for like, four or five years straight. Really tough, man. But when I was getting ready to join, he was like. His exact words were, josh, join the hardest outfit they'll let you get into. So I went to the recruiter, actually. I was gonna. I was gonna join the marines.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Luckily, yeah, those guys were out to lunch. That's how it works.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Who else is in here?

[C]

God, life is funny. And.

[A]

And literally the dude from the army office saw me, like, looking around through the windows.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And nobody was there, and he came and snatched me up.

[D]

Was this pre 9 11?

[A]

Oh, yeah, this was. So this was in 1994. I was in my junior year. And I was also in a lot of trouble, so.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Go to war, go to jail?

[A]

Pretty much.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I. I got rolled up for gta. Oh.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Luckily, the only thing to save me was the. The detective that busted my ass. He was an ex marine.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

He told the judge, this guy's already got a ranger contract. So luckily it worked out, man. I had three months before I was supposed to leave. And he's like, you need to pay this kid back for the damages to his truck. And you can still go. Otherwise, if you don't, by the end of this summer, your ass is going to jail for a year. So I worked it off, man, and paid the kid back some of the money and still left somewhat unscathed.

[C]

Wow.

[D]

They don't. I don't think they do that anymore, you know.

[B]

You know, a little bit embarrassing at the time, but, you know, what. What. What was it that. What was. It was your mindset then, like, I need this guy's truck. I just.

[C]

You.

[A]

He's. I hope he watches this, because I hated the kid.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

You're the number one suspect.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I just didn't like the kids. He was a little rich kid.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And honestly, it was a. It was a low rider truck, like an extended S10. The whole bed. The whole bed was full of high end speakers. And so we just took this thing and, like, out to a cornfield and had fun with it.

[C]

Okay. All right.

[D]

So, I mean, that's not really. Yeah, I don't think you're not out there Boosting cars and.

[A]

No, but I got caught. I boosted the car. I got busted.

[B]

The end result's the same. Yes, yes.

[A]

It's not like I was doing it every 15 minutes in Detroit or nothing.

[C]

Right. Yeah, yeah. The.

[B]

What you Pride think that far ahead? Maybe you did. What was your plan? Were you just gonna leave it and then. Oh, and okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

The only problem was it was at a party and we were the last one seen in the area, so I wasn't thinking that far.

[B]

Yeah, no, no, no, no.

[C]

The.

[A]

This was pre.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Is pretty sneaky. Black ops, Josh.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

The. When you go, when the armor recruiter scoops you up, like, do you. Do you say those words? So I'm like, I want the hardest thing you got.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What was it?

[A]

Yeah, he's like, you know, gives me that look. He's like, well, I can get you a Ranger contract.

[C]

That.

[A]

That's it, man. That's. That's the hardest thing. This is back before they even gave SF contracts. Yeah, right.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, that was it. That was like the cream of the crop.

[B]

Well, heck, at least. At least he knew enough and. And. Or cared enough.

[A]

Yeah, he was an. Actually an ex armor guy, so he had dismounted armor, so he knew. He knew about infantry dudes and probably.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

82Nd Ranger Battalion. Heard stories.

[B]

Anyways, nothing's worse than. Than, Than, you know, the cliche recruiter that has to fill quotas or whatever. The reason is like, oh, yeah, you want the hardest thing.

[A]

Rigor.

[B]

You're gonna be. You're gonna be an artillery. Try putting 155 millimeter mortar into a. Yeah, it's a. It's 100.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Let'S, you know, church something up to make it sound, you know, not what you really wanted to do. And you're young. More than. More than likely. If. If that's.

[D]

That's.

[B]

If the guy in the uniform tells you this is what we need you to do, you know, more than likely you'll do it.

[D]

Brent got duped into air defense because.

[B]

That'S what happened to me. Yeah, because that's what happened to me.

[A]

Back to your point, man. Like, I didn't have a clue what I was getting into. I never even heard of Rangers before. Like, I wasn't a historian, man. I was smoking weed in high school. Like, yeah, I didn't know about even Panama invasion, which was just a few years before. I mean, I saw. It was a blip on the news to me. Right?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Ranger regiment just jumped Into Panama.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And actually the year before I signed up, Somalia went down.

[C]

Yeah. I had barely.

[A]

I heard about it.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Like, that was not the reason I joined Ranger Regiment. I was just dumb and didn't know what else to do.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, Black Hawk down wasn't out yet. No. I mean, no one really knew a lot about.

[A]

You saw it on the news as a bl.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And, you know, back then, we had three, five, and eight with some rabbit ears. Like, it wasn't.

[B]

We had three. We had two, six, and nine.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like you didn't have 24.7news in your face.

[D]

I remember when my parents got cable. I remember we had, like, 80 more channels, but it was the four, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

3, 7, 10, 13, 80 channels.

[B]

Still. Still nothing to watch.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Except MTV. When we finally got cable, I did love me some mtv. Well, it was cool.

[A]

Back in the day, they actually played music videos. I know Beastie Boy is in Metallica.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You couldn't wait to watch, like, one of your favorite songs videos and pair them up. Oh, man, that's. Oh, I could still remember, like, all. All the different, you know, the. The Headbangers ball.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like, the different MTV needs to go.

[A]

Back to that reality.

[B]

They have mtv too, right? Just.

[D]

I think that's turned reality to.

[B]

To one music, to the other. Like, what's. What's going on?

[D]

It all happened with the real world.

[A]

Everything's so gay now.

[C]

Yeah, it is.

[B]

True story. This is a true story. Oh, gosh. The. By the time you get to. To basic training, we'll just put that out the window real quick. So I want to get right to. I want to get right to. Rip.

[A]

I haven't talked about basic training forever, bro.

[B]

Have. Have you? You? It's. It's. It's not about me, but I do have. We'll share them after this. I do have some basic training stories. Do you have any basic training? The only thing I remember, Adam, you got him. Half.

[A]

Half the cadre got arrested. There was like, this huge fucking FBI investigation. This. This black kid that was going through basic with us, he was in a different platoon, but it turns out this was, like, the biggest drug dealer in Atlanta. And here we are just down in Columbus, right? An hour and a half away. This motherfucker's got the drill sergeants in this big drug ring.

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[D]

You gotta pay him so you can leave.

[A]

Well, no, they were all dealing drugs and doing drugs with him, so next thing you know, you got this whole basic training company that's a big drug ring and, like, work.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

I'm a stupid 18 year old just going, yeah, I gotta worry about shooting tomorrow, right? And what I'm eating, and next thing I know, the FBI's in there busting a few of the drill sergeants and they're hauling them off to jail in the middle of the night. It was crazy. Oh, yeah.

[B]

I'm glad we didn't. I'm glad we didn't just skip over training.

[D]

Did they? Did they?

[A]

I hadn't even thought about that in like 30 years. No.

[D]

Did they bring in new ones? They go like.

[A]

I actually had a really good drill sergeant. I. I respect that guy. Both of them.

[B]

Did yours get rolled up into it?

[C]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

Who was who? I can still remember. I can still remember my drill sergeant's names. Do you remember your drill sergeant?

[A]

You put me on the spot. I. I actually do.

[B]

I was.

[A]

But I'm trying to remember it right now. Yeah, I'm getting old, Brad.

[C]

I know.

[B]

Tyler, were your drill sergeant Sams, Drill.

[D]

Sergeant Vance, Drill sergeant Lopez, Drill sergeant Wolf, and another Hispanic. I can't remember his name.

[B]

Do you have good drill sergeants?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I would love to find the. Our head drill sergeant threw our trophy across the wall and quit. Because the other drill sergeants, when we went to shoot at the range were like, trying to teach us life skills. And they were like 40 out of 40. Do you not see those extra rounds sitting next to you, dumbass? Like, why would you not use those? So guys were loading them up. I guess they were just trying to teach us to use your head. And he was big on integrity, and he found out there was a. There was a company investigation and they brought us all in. Like, did they tell you to pick up rounds?

[A]

And we're like talking about.

[B]

Yeah, those are, those. Those are. Those are tough. Those are tough things to handle out of at a young.

[A]

I'm thinking about my peanut butter in my wall.

[D]

This isn't about the peanut butter, Right?

[A]

I was hungry.

[C]

JV team for life. Oh.

[D]

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[C]

JV team for life.

[B]

By the time you got to to rip, did you. Did you know more about. About what you. What, a little more of all you signed up for or.

[A]

Bro, I still had no clue what I was getting into other than. Other than like, you know, in ait, you get this, you get these spec fours that come back in for like, reclass. We got this kid that was like a mortar guy or some. Now he's becoming infantry. And he'd been in the 82nd.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Homeboy already had a ranger tab because he went to school, right?

[C]

Yep.

[A]

He's like, bro, you're going to Ranger battalion. He's like, you better get ready. And there was like four other dudes in my class that all had Ranger contracts. And even the drill sergeants were like, get ready. And then it got worse, man. Like, after we graduated basic in ait, you go to airborne school.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And now you're, you know, you're there for three weeks and you're listening to these chumps that are teaching you how to jump out of an airplane.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're just laughing and joking about, oh, you're going to rip, because it's right down the street.

[C]

Right.

[A]

They're just building this whole thing up.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Sure as man. They weren't lying.

[B]

Did it, did it drive you, you know, to work out harder, run faster?

[A]

Oh, absolutely.

[B]

Because you were worried about the unknown of what everyone keeps telling you to get ready for.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean, again, not. Not only was I blessed in getting the, the contract to go there, but, you know, I was pretty athletic in high school, played a lot of sports, and I thought I was in pretty good shape. And, you know, it definitely helped out.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Because there were a lot of guys that were not ready for that. And even then it was still. It was pushing my limits that I've never experience before.

[B]

Did you max the PT test coming out of basic? Do you remember that, by chance?

[A]

Not the run. I was a horrible runner.

[C]

Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.

[D]

They usually the. The Rangers and 18x Rays guys, they were like, if you're not in a group, you're done.

[A]

Yeah, well, they changed that real quick.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

A year later, I was running like a low five minute mile.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so the first thing after airborne school, like your first real introduction to Ranger battalion was.

[A]

Was rip.

[B]

Is that the, The.

[A]

Yeah. So let me tell you about day one.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Please do you graduate airborne school? And again, this is right after Somalia. This is. It was 96, but it would have been, I want to say March, March of 96. So we're, you know, three years after Somalia.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

The dude that shows up to pick us up, and this is at Airborne school. You got your duffel bag on your back and a rucksack or a rucksack on your back and your duffel bag on the front.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Everything you own in it, right. For the last six months.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

He's like, all right, boys, pick your bags up. But the dude that shows up is just like a, you know, six foot two, skinny, like, big jawed. And I find out later who he is. Great guy.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

He's actually was a chaplain afterwards, but Sergeant Struker, who's very famous in the Blackhawk down operation and in the movie, in the book, great guy, but he was an evil. He just won Best Ranger literally like I think a month before he picked us up.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So it might have been like the end of April. And I. I believe he won Best Ranger a couple times. But the guy was an animal. He was a freak, a physical specimen. So he runs us down the road from Airborne School. I believe it's about a mile and a half. It was the longest mile and a half in my life with my bags on.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And then we get down there inside the. The compound, which is all fenced off and you can't see inside there. And it was just three weeks of non stop getting scuffed up, but it was what I needed, man.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The during rip, just a couple hours of sleep every night.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it's kind of standard.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Honestly, I've probably blanked most of it out at this point.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

A lot of hard road marches, obviously. A lot of PT and smoke. But they also teach you, like you're learning, obviously, the ranger creed, Ranger history. You have to take tests and then you go out to the field. You're doing land nav. You know, you go out to the. The rip course for a week, do patrolling.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

But mainly scuffing you up the whole time do.

[B]

And so do you remember how many guys you started with and ended up with?

[A]

I don't.

[B]

You lose about half the class.

[A]

It's at least half.

[B]

At least half.

[C]

Yeah, man.

[D]

Just. Are they. Are they cut or they dick quitting?

[B]

Both.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Most of them quit that, you know, in the first three days. That's where you get most of your quitters. And then you got the guys that want to be there and are up for the challenge and then, you know, those. The attrition still keeps going just because of. Mainly because of physical.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, they can't pass certain tests. Yeah, it sucks for those dudes because they, they mainly get reassigned throughout the army. They come worldwide or whatever, right?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And you know, they might be hanging out around regiment for two months like raking leaves and picking up trash before they actually get orders.

[B]

That's got to be the worst. I'm so glad I never got to feel that feeling. I don't say that. I don't say that as a, like a dick like that.

[A]

I'm just.

[C]

I am.

[B]

I'm glad to watch friends that you went to basic training with airborne school, you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, you're just as good as them. And even when you are the guy who didn't quit, you know that they're just as good as you.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You're just in it still and they're not. And yet, you know, every now and again you catch eyes with that guy, you're like, yeah. I don't know what to do or say. Sorry.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I mean, it would be different if it was just the quitters, but I mean, to, to be like, hey, man, you just didn't love the heart, but you. You don't have it right now.

[A]

I think that could be said with any selection. That's right.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, we saw it in.

[B]

Anyone can mess up.

[A]

And even there, like, some of those guys that got cut out OTC were good friends of mine that I went to war with. Great dudes in Ranger regiment.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

They don't, man.

[B]

It only takes. It only takes a bad day at the land nav course to get your mind wrong. You know, it only takes. And sometimes it's just the matter. I say this all the time. Of all the. Whether it be, you know, selections or courses that we did, just the fact that we were able to stay healthy through. Yeah, you could do everything right and just not be healthy. And you twist an ankle, twist a.

[A]

Knee, that's half the battle right there.

[B]

Get sick, you know, get. Get a, get a 48 hour flu, see if. See if you make it through. Probably not.

[C]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

It's just so much luck goes involved too. I don't. It's one of those things. You don't think about it at the time, but then you look back and you're like, yeah, that's crazy.

[D]

You were one step away. Yeah, life, life.

[A]

Get bit by a rattlesnake.

[B]

I believe it was a water moccasin that killed a guy out of SFAS a few years ago. They found him dehydrated they initially, I believe, thought it was dehydrated for they found out. Oh, well, yeah. Snake bite.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Happens.

[C]

One of.

[B]

One of the best dudes in my Q course, Johnny Riggs. Better than. Than all of us. There we were doing immediate action drills and break Contact with. With 80 pound rucksacks. He goes to plant and turn so he can lay down a base of fire. Snaps his acl. Never, never, never, never the same again.

[C]

Just.

[B]

And that could happen to anyone.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But anyway, that's. It is. It is crazy. I would say the longest three weeks, but you've blocked out most of it, so it doesn't seem like a long three weeks looking back.

[A]

No, I mean, you know, it's. You take everything one day at a time and everything's another step in the process.

[C]

Right.

[A]

It's not like you show up to. To Ranger Battalion after RIP and you're like, oh, I made it. Hey, guys, I'm here.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

No, it's just getting started.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And for the listeners, this. And not everyone really gets this.

[C]

And.

[B]

And Ranger battalion really is the only one that I can think of off my head, the top of my head, that does this. So when you show up to Ranger Battalion, you're not fully respected or fully qualified because you just went to rip, but you didn't go to Ranger school yet. You know, as a Green Beret, you went to the school. So, like, you are like a fully fledged part of the team when you're Navy seal. Like, you get your trident. Like, you are at least a fully qualified member of the team when you get to. To Ranger Battalion, you've graduated rip, but you're not really a fully qualified member of the team. And they might let you know it.

[C]

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. And.

[A]

And yeah, you're. They're prepping you for ranger school for six to 12 months.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

If you're on the fast track.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Which you want to be.

[A]

You want to get the Ranger school and get that tab as fast as possible.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Trust me.

[B]

And, and how. How. How can you do that? How. How can you make. How can you jump in front of other people or ensure that it gets done as fast as possible? Is it in your battle back pre.

[A]

War, pre 9 11, you know, mid-90s when I, when I got there, it was mainly based off of pt.

[B]

What, What Ranger baton did you go to first?

[C]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So it's basically based off of. Of PT scores, obviously.

[A]

Can't be like full retard either. Like, they're gonna put you through you know, we had the Ranger Handbook, and you're always. When you're not out at the range shooting or training, you're. You're back in the rear, like, learning from the more senior guy, the more senior privates or the guys that just got back from Ranger School giving classes.

[C]

Yeah, it's.

[A]

So you're learning all about patrolling and warning orders and op orders.

[B]

That's.

[A]

That's. That's your bread and butter as a Ranger.

[B]

You know, it's funny, you talk about the Ranger Handbook. I haven't thought about this in a while. But, you know, our slightly Shorter Ranger School, NSF, is our SUT. It's. It used to be 60 days and cut it down to 45 days. But the Ranger Handbook is the Bible there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's all you learn in SF is the Ranger Handbook, and that's. And that continues throughout your career. You know, SF even regards the Ranger Handbook as this. This is the bible of small unit tactics.

[C]

Yep. Yeah.

[A]

So you learned that. But the big thing was like, can this guy pass the PT test? Like, no question. So that's. That's how you would get bumped up on the omls. Whoever has the best PT score at the time, they're going next.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So I. I got there pretty quick. I became a runner.

[B]

How long did it take you to go to Ranger School? Remember, within the year?

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Six months. A year?

[A]

I think I was like, seven months.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Do you. Winter class, Summer class. Good for you.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

What do you. What do you remember about. What do you remember about Ranger School? We don't get a lot of Ranger school stories. We've had a couple, you know, several Ranger school qualified people, but we don't dig into Ranger school a whole lot. Just. Just go over the phases of Ranger school length. Just real quick for.

[A]

Yeah. You got Fort Benning, which. The first week of Fort Benning is really just doing all your PT tests and your quals and making sure you're supposed to be there.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that drops, like, probably a third of the people right there.

[B]

It's crazy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they get down to business and.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, you do the. I think it's called Victory Pond.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, where you run across the big log and zip line down in the water. You know, you do all your land nav and the O course and all that. Do a little patrolling and. And get your go there. Then you go up to Dan, which was my favorite phase in the mountains. You're just walking up and down mountains all night long. And for, like, two weeks straight, doing your patrols and. And hopefully getting to go. It's a lot of luck, man. It depends on the guys around you, number one. But when you get up to bat, like, you got to know what you're doing, obviously, in whatever position they put you in. But even then, like, can go bad. We all know that, you know, 60 gunners asleep on the ambush, whatever.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It doesn't go down.

[B]

That's right. You still expect everyone. You could know everything that's supposed to happen. You can do your best to lead it, but. But. But you're not walking point. You're not leading it.

[A]

You can't do everything.

[B]

Do everything.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You still have to have everyone care. Everyone has to care about you passing to some degree.

[A]

And on top of the fact nobody's eaten, you know, everybody's had one meal a day for the last two weeks and one hour of sleep for the last two weeks. And so, like, just trying to keep dudes awake is 90% of the battle.

[B]

And we all know the shitbag who. Who turted it up through everyone else's patrol. But now it's his patrol, so now he cares.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I was like, you didn't care a whole lot during my patrol.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, now you got all this energy.

[B]

Now you can stay awake for the whole thing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's your graded patrol in the 82nd.

[D]

You can't have a platoon as an officer unless you've been to Ranger school. So we had this guy who is. They put it was a. Who's a second lieutenant, the gold bar. And they suck him in, like, S2 or S3. And one day he went to Ranger school, and he never came back. Nine months, they recycled him. He lost, like, 60 pounds. And he finally got his Ranger tab so he could have a platoon.

[B]

So that was back.

[A]

So we lived in the barracks, and I figured that out back in the day. And I don't think they do this anymore, but the guy that lived next door to me did the same thing. He was gone for, like, a year. I found out he was getting paid per diem the whole time he was gone. I was like, that's a smart dude right there.

[B]

He came home to a check. Because we.

[A]

Back then, bro, we didn't make. Yeah, I think my first as an E2 or any three. I was getting, like, $386 a month.

[B]

I was about to say per diem. Would. It could have. Could have been more than that. More than your base pay?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, that's crazy.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

You ain't spending anything there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I do remember coming out of basic training in AIT and like looking at my bank account being like oh man, I haven't spent money. I don't really, I really haven't.

[C]

I.

[B]

And, and actually not being that impressed like ah, I thought it would be a little more than that.

[A]

$2300 in the checking account. I'm rich, right.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

So bending phase, Dahlonega Mountain phase and.

[A]

Then Florida and then Florida phase, swamp phase.

[B]

What'd you think about that?

[A]

It's good.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Just at that point, whatever, whatever it takes to get it over with.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And get back to battalion and be like I arrived.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All you untapped people, watch out.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's funny man. Like I was a prick as a Spec 4 and I, I hate to say this because obviously being older and more mature now, but I was an 18 year old tab spec 4.

[B]

Oh nice.

[A]

And Ranger battalion, that wields a lot of power.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And this was back before like hazing was a bad thing.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Still not aware it's a bad.

[A]

We got away with a lot.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

In those days for sure. But I look back man, and I would have done things completely different. Honestly just the way you know, you.

[B]

Say that but at the end of the day I don't and you know, only you really know the answer to that. Oh. How bad you were.

[A]

But you know.

[B]

18 year old Josh was probably who 18 year old Josh needed to be at that time. But, but like, but 25 year old Josh can't still be right? 18 year old Josh.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Raging hair on fire.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And 30 year old Josh can't be what 25 year old Josh was. You know I think we, I think, I think they all serve. Serve their purpose to some time and place. Do you, are there any hazing stories that, that stand out in, in your mind to put you on the spot? Because here's one of the reasons I always said if I go back I'd, I'd. I'd enlist in Ranger Regiment because whether it be, you know, SF teammates that came from reg arrangement Ranger Regiment teammates at the unit that came from Ranger Regiment. Their private stories are. That sound a little sexual.

[C]

They're.

[B]

But their stories of their privates didn't. Didn't get better.

[A]

That works.

[B]

The lower enlisted stories that Ranger Regiment are some of the funniest you will hear in the military. And the hazing stories and the barrack stories in range Regiment, they just seem over the top.

[A]

I'm sure none of this happens anymore. So I could. I'll probably be okay saying it, but we used to go out down in Savannah, man, and 18 year olds, we'd get wasted out at the bars and nobody checked IDs back then. Come back to the barracks at 3 in the morning and just start waking all the privates up. And we would do. We get them out in the hallway, which was like the fatal funnel.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we make them put all their body armor on, their helmets, their goggles.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then we played a game called Bowling for Privates.

[B]

That's what I'm talking about.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then afterwards they had to pick up all the smashed glass in the hallway.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So right around the time we were done playing games, it was time for pt. At 5:30 the morning.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Poor guys. They're.

[C]

They're.

[B]

They're at the barracks, they're sleeping. They're doing the right thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No.

[B]

No good deed goes unpunished.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Fun times, man. That was my, what I like to call my college days.

[B]

Right, right. Yeah.

[A]

Most of us skipped college back then and went right to the army.

[B]

How many years you spend in regiment?

[A]

Total? Almost 12.

[B]

Yeah, that's a long time.

[A]

Not just 1st Battalion. I ended up getting RD. Ranger recon.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

That's a long time to be in. In regiment. That's. That's awesome. So the, the whole cliche thing. Where were you in September 11th? Either.

[C]

What, what.

[B]

What part of. Of regiment were you in? And then. And then where were you?

[A]

No, you asked about the hazing and another not so funny story.

[B]

But I'll take all the hazing stories.

[A]

You got part of my life. I was actually fired as a squad leader from 1st Battalion.

[C]

Whoa. Yeah.

[A]

A lot of people don't know this.

[B]

I did not know that.

[A]

My guys, my team leaders and my spec force that I let run rampant were. We just had this private that was a shit bag. We were trying to get rid of them. He went AWOL for six months. He comes back and tells the first sergeant, company commander, hey, I just spent the last few months smoking weed. Like, get me the out of here. They're like, no, you're going back on the team and the squad. So I had to deal with this guy. Well, we were trying to break this kid hard and just to get him out of there. Yeah, my spec fours at the time and my team leaders were smoking him and he gets hurt. So next thing you know, there's an incident report, first sergeant's up my ass. I ended up getting fired over it because I was in Charge of these dudes. So this was December of 2000. So I go up. I go up for my little purgatory stint up at 18th Airborne Corps, and I'm hanging out with Zimmerman and a couple other dudes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Got fired from battalion at the time. Funny story is the guy that actually did the hazing ended up becoming the regimental sergeant major years later. I'm not naming any names because I'm still. Still friends with them, but.

[B]

Oh, that sounds about. Yeah, that's. It's always. It's how you deal with things in life. And that story comes across this podcast time and time again, you know, and, you know, generally speaking, if you're telling your story on a podcast, you ended up doing something right eventually and you dealt with adversity.

[A]

You know, it was actually really good for me, but I'd spent almost six years there, and I. I'm the type of person needs a lot of change.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Every few years.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Ask my ex wives.

[B]

But the turd that needed to get fired, he did get fired. The guy who really put the screws to him didn't get fired. Who, you know, the. The squad leader, you know, gets fired. And I. I know there's a condition.

[A]

There was other stuff going on at the same time. The. The sergeant ended up getting fired. Him and the first sergeant had a riff. It was. It was bad. But I look back, man, for. For me personally, it was a good thing for me. I was up at LUR for a little. Little stint. That's where I was at when 911 happened, and I knew damn well we weren't going anywhere.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

How'd you like lur? How'd you like that from.

[A]

There's a lot of good dudes there.

[B]

From a. I don't want to say anything derogatory, anyone, but, I mean, when it comes to infantry, I mean, the Rangers are the top. So it is one that I feel like one of those few things that most. You're one of the few people that could step down to lur, you know, if that. If that makes sense. And that might offend some people. Most people, that's something, you know, you aspire to and step up.

[A]

What was good about it was there was already a lot of Rangers there that were in the same boat as me. And Zim was a good buddy of mine. Yeah, he was there, and I was like, man, you can go to HALO school from this place. I actually.

[B]

They're always badged out.

[A]

And t. Yeah, I learned a lot there, man, about reccending and so I turned around. I. When I went back to regiment less than 18 months later, I went straight to RD.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And that was good. So the lurse was just a. Another stepping stone. And again, there was. There was a lot of great dudes there. And man, at least 10 of those dudes ended up in the unit with us later. At least 10, if not 15.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

There's. I feel like it got less and less, but for a while there, there was that stigma and not stigmas. If it's a bad thing. There is that kind of understanding that that was. You go to rd, like you're gonna end up at the unit.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because a lot of those guys did for a time frame and won't ask you about specifics of. Of RD selection. So don't. Don't. If that's what you're waiting on me to do, guys, you'll. You'll be waiting around a while. But I know this from. From talking to you guys. It's a kick in the nuts. And so I've always kind of thought of like, after hearing that, I'm like, well, why would you go if. If that selection's so bad?

[C]

You know, not.

[B]

Not. They're not that. They're like talking about.

[A]

You don't really know it until you've done both.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And they're like, well, why don't you just go to the other one? Just go to the other one. If they're gonna make it that hard, they do that.

[A]

It was.

[B]

We'll say it's a respectable selection. Understatement of the day right there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But you know, guys, guys, get it done.

[A]

So it's.

[C]

It's.

[B]

It is doable. And of course they've changed. RRC now is that.

[A]

They did actually right after I left in 2007. Time frame, they became a company. That's the same time like everybody in JSOC was expanding to the fourth. Whatever.

[C]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

How was. But you're in. You're kind of. And you're. You're in a niche group which sometimes is good, sometimes is bad. Was with. With the war kicking off and I'm.

[A]

I assume so that was O3. Iraq invasion happened. Afghanistan was already underway.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Were you in a good place for war in that unit? Because just not a lot of people know about them.

[A]

You know, everybody that that is in RD is a stud.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're there. You know, it's. It's a mini specialized unit within Ranger regiment and you work directly for the commander. And man, those early years in Afghanistan, we Just kind of ran around, did whatever we wanted. Love is nice. Yeah, we had a lot of free reign. We'll put it that way.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What. It may sound like an obvious answer, but, but in this particular one, it may not be because you're a specialized unit within a specialized unit. You're, you've, you kind of got free reign. Like what, what's your incentive to go to the unit at that point? You know, I mean, what, what, what made you decide to, to take the next step?

[A]

Yeah, there was a couple things. Honestly, it's, it's kind of like once you decide you get over that 10 year mark and you're going to be like a career dude and you make that flip mentally and you know you're going to do your 20.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You always, at least in our world, like, we want to be at the pinnacle. Right. It's always a competition and with yourself.

[B]

With yourself. Absolutely.

[C]

Yep. Yeah.

[A]

So there's that aspect of it and then there's, you know, being overseas. A lot of times my team and the other RD teams, especially in Afghanistan, we were always attached to ST6 and doing a lot of work with them. And you look down at like, hey, they Rangers are here, right? And they're like, no, bro, we're like, we're special.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Yeah, they, they, they didn't. I bet they didn't.

[A]

They didn't.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a different world to them.

[A]

And they. I had one of the team leaders, I got pissed off and got into it with him over a mission one night. They didn't want us going on, and one of the team leaders pulled me aside. He's like, man, I get it. You guys are, you guys are some good dudes. But he's like, you just need to go to the unit. He's like, that's the only way you're gonna get any respect. And it wasn't about the respect. It was just like, well, the respect.

[B]

The respect equals missions. And so it equals me.

[A]

Yes. Like, I know my guys are just as if not more capable than half you.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

The shot.

[B]

Is RD considered a tier 1 unit? I hear them thrown into that mix. It goes back and forth. I never know what to say or where the official list is for that.

[A]

Yeah, it changes daily, I think. I'm not sure myself.

[D]

The real question is, did you still have to have a high?

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

So that was the downside to being an rd even back then, you know, you got your lifelong Rangers, the, the regimental sword major and like, they're, they're giving you dirty looks, man, because you got long hair and a beard, but.

[B]

It'S because you're doing your. Because you're prepared to do your job.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Right.

[A]

We got to go over to Afghanistan and fit in with the locals as best we can.

[C]

Right?

[A]

Everybody's got dyed hair, red hair, beards.

[B]

From a distance, it works.

[A]

It works from a distance, especially when you're out in the mountains all day.

[D]

Imagine those Ranger sergeant majors, though, like.

[A]

Oh, they were they. Absolutely. Luckily, there was a big shift in regimen as a whole, for sure. There was a legend that came from the unit, came back to Regiment. Greg Burch, okay, One of my mentors, probably one of the most solid dudes I've. I've ever had the privilege of working for. He came back and took over 3rd Battalion and then took over Regiment. And he was the guy that said, rangers will no longer have high end tights. Change the policy for the whole regiment. And dudes were just loving it. I mean, a simple little change like that can change the mindset for sure. For sure.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But it was wartime. He's like, you know, we're not Marines. Like, it's time for the high and tights to go. And that was a big change. He changed a lot of other stuff in the regiment that was, you know, for the better.

[D]

When did they get the tambourines?

[A]

That's a whole other story.

[D]

Oh, I know.

[B]

Oh, were you in Regiment during the. During the changeover? Oh, that's a good. Speak on. Speak on that for a little bit because someone. Some people probably don't really.

[A]

I don't know if I even want.

[D]

Because the whole army said, we're going blackberries. Rangers.

[A]

You can suck your dick.

[B]

Because the Rangers were the. There are only two people that wore berets back in. And I'll call. I will go back to the 90s, right? Like, is it as far as the 90s? When. When did the Black Berets come around?

[A]

You know, I should know this, but as far as I know, before Regiment was formed, Regiment was formed in 84.

[B]

By SF guys, but go ahead.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

That's. That's actually true.

[A]

I don't know why that was quiet.

[B]

That's just so.

[A]

You know, that's actually. You know, I'm trying to think if. If Regiment had the blackberries back then. I believe they did, but it's.

[B]

Drew, can you look that up while.

[A]

I'm kind of embarrassed I don't know this.

[B]

That's right. I get it.

[C]

The.

[B]

The braids. They're called the Green berets, it's a really big deal in our world.

[A]

And rangers were known for the black berets, and obviously 80 Saga had their Cameroon these things.

[C]

Yep, yep.

[B]

And essentially I'm gonna get this name right. I think Sinchecky was like, you know what?

[A]

He saw a ranger parade. I think it was on St. Patty's Day in Savannah.

[B]

Loved it.

[A]

Oh, my God, those guys look so good. Everybody in the army needs to look that good.

[C]

Right?

[B]

But what he. What he failed was they looked good because they were all studs and they wore their braids with pride. And they had crisp uniforms. Crisp uniforms.

[A]

Shine boots.

[B]

All of them. All of them were in shape. You just can't give a beret of people. And now they look professional because then we got these chef hat pancake berets on fat people and like, oh, good job.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

On pregnant women, like, okay. And now they all look like rangers. No, you just pissed off the rangers. But I would say in hindsight, I mean, it's. The blackberries were. Were cool when. When you guys warm. But the tambourise was a. Was. Was a good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was a good change. The tambour.

[A]

If they had to go anywhere, they picked the right color.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But black beret was awesome. But also living and growing up in Savannah, Georgia, where it's hot as. And humid, the tambourine was kind of a nice switch. Not as hot.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't think about that till.

[A]

You brought it up.

[C]

The.

[B]

The old black beret debacle.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, I'm sure you still have your.

[A]

Your black beret. You got.

[B]

See, you got your black beret, your tan beret.

[A]

I actually have them hanging on a skull.

[B]

Oh, do you. Oh, nice.

[A]

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

[B]

Nice.

[D]

Wait, so when you're. When you're in the unit and you don't come from the green berets, when in you officially, if you ever did wear class A's, would you wear a tan beret?

[B]

Correct. You wear.

[A]

Well, now, I thought everybody in the unit wore the tan beret. You guys wore your green beret.

[B]

Yes. You wear. You were. Because it's a joint unit. You. You. You wear the.

[C]

If.

[B]

If you came from the 82nd, you'll wear your maroon beret.

[A]

Not once while I was in the unit for almost 11 years did I ever put on my class A's. I even had my. My sergeant major photos for the board. I had those photoshopped.

[B]

Yeah, my. My last board photos were the last ones to get photoshopped. And after that, it came down like, all right, guys with the. The.

[C]

The.

[B]

The Photoshop. They weren't called the Photoshop department. Whatever they were.

[C]

They're like.

[B]

Their job isn't. Like they're. They're busy enough. Their job is at the photo. The photo.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Their job is at the Photoshop your bad haircuts into good haircuts. If you want to get promoted, go get a good haircut, and it'll grow back. That email.

[A]

I really cared more about my beard and my hair than I did getting.

[C]

I did.

[A]

I swear to God.

[B]

I believe that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Before we move on one to. To clear up the. The black beret question, because I was interested as well. The US Army Rangers were authorized to wear the Black Beret on January 30, 1975, when the modern 75th Ranger Regiment was established. The 5th. The official authorization followed years of unofficial wear by various reconnaissance and armored units.

[A]

There we go.

[B]

They eventually switched to the tambourine. 2001.

[D]

2001.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Officially, but the. So basically the. The decision to go to another selection in your life, as if you. You haven't proven yourself enough. Yeah.

[A]

Funny thing is, I actually went to unit selection right before I ended up leaving 1st Battalion.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I was like, 21 years old.

[B]

Oh, did you really?

[A]

Yeah, I ended up breaking my foot up there.

[B]

I didn't know that either. I love interviewing friends because.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And we had some people in my class that made it kid.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah, he was in my class. Him and I trained together.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

We both.

[B]

Another really young guy.

[A]

He was reasonable.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so. So that was. You've been doing reconnaissance, you know, for a while. So that. That first trip to West Virginia, like. Like. Like my first trip, I. I consider a reconnaissance so I could. Yeah, so I could. So I could go back and get it done. Did they say anything to you about your. Your huge lapse selection?

[A]

They did. Yeah. It was like eight years.

[C]

Yeah, that's. And.

[A]

They'Re like, why? The only. The only excuse I had was I was having fun.

[B]

That you were.

[A]

Yeah, that.

[B]

That you were. Well, you're definitely busy. It's not like you weren't doing anything for. For those eight years. So I. I know they.

[C]

They.

[B]

They respected that, but, you know, it's.

[A]

Like anything else, man. Everything in life happens for a reason.

[B]

Happens for a reason.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

There's all about how you deal with it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You just got to go with it. And it's. It's timing, and when the time's right, you know, you go with it.

[B]

Like I said, I don't.

[A]

Good or bad.

[B]

I don't get to say this a whole lot, but, you know, the, the OTC that, that we were in, I actually didn't finish that OTC and another reconnaissance and was one of. I thought was one of the worst things ever happened to me in my life.

[A]

I was even bombed.

[B]

I was, I was not as bummed as I was Josh. But, but everything happens for a reason. I came back to otc. I ended up going to the squadron that I should have went to the time I should have went there and, and, and I had an absolute blast. But you know, every, Everything happens for a reason. You go back the. Not as. You know, not going to ask you any specific selection or really any unit stuff. Olocks. We're gonna get to transition here very shortly.

[A]

Let's talk about our first OTC together.

[B]

Well, I was gonna ask you have.

[A]

A fun memory of us.

[B]

Oh, gosh. Well, I was gonna ask you since it was eight years, but those are things you don't. It's. It's a, it's a. Even when you're 21, like that you don't forget the time you go to Delta Force selection when you're 21. So when you go back eight years later, you'd done a lot of stuff does. Was selection what, what. You know, kind of what, you remembered it or were you like, I've don't remember.

[A]

It hasn't changed.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But you remembered it.

[A]

The only thing that was different was the hills were harder. I mean, I don't want to like boost my ego here, but when I was 21, I was ready.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I was a stud.

[B]

I was crushing, physically ready.

[A]

I was running up and down those hills.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's also why I broke my.

[B]

That's right. But you weren't mentally ready.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, honestly, even if I would have passed, I was so dumb and immature back then, I would have hoped that they didn't even let me pass the board.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Or at least, hey, go serve a few more years.

[A]

Come back 10 years.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know, three to 10 years. But it's not too, too uncommon. For once you come back in a couple years.

[A]

But I would have been proud of that. Like as a 21 year old, come back in two or three years.

[B]

Oh, you, you hang your head high and you go back to Ranger regimen. A stud. Basically. Like, I'm just here for a couple years.

[A]

I was.

[B]

I was too good too soon. See you suckers later in a couple years. Enjoy My presence while you had it.

[A]

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[E]

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[D]

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[C]

JV team for life.

[A]

I mean, you know, looking back, I think it would have been nice to be in the unit prior to 911. They were still doing stuff back then, but yeah, you know it was, there was obviously a shift as there was everywhere in Ranger regimen and ss.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know those first three to five years of the war was.

[B]

It was figuring it out.

[A]

Yeah, it was huge.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And some, some units figured it out quicker than others. Yeah, but, but, but yeah, and, and, and true, you know, give credit, credit's due. The whole American military really did like figured out what they were doing, you know. As, as, as, as, as ground.

[A]

And even the unit lost a lot of guys those first couple years and maybe that's why I was. Wasn't supposed to be there.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I could have been one of them.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The. What. What do you remember?

[C]

What.

[B]

What story do you have about us as a otc?

[A]

So we didn't have much time to get together outside of training. But I do remember the one time we did and you had a few of us over to your house and I saw a side of Brent Tucker that I never knew existed. You and I were friends because you had the, The Batmobile back then.

[B]

Yeah, I had my C6 Corvette. Oh, man. Heads.

[D]

You got rid of it.

[B]

Yeah, I did hate that I got rid of it. It really was awesome.

[A]

I had. I. I'm a muscle car guy myself.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And I got my. I still have my 69 Camaro. That's all.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But Brad had this Batmobile. I called it the black C6 and it just sounded amazing.

[B]

They do kind of look like a bat after nothing. Nothing was better. After a hard day of getting your dick kicked in and otc, being reminded that you're not good enough at everything you do.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Only to pretty much. Only to pretty much prove them. Right. And then. And then get near, you know, 600 horsepower Corvette and drive home. That, that 30 minute drive home kind of. It does reset. Yeah. The. The back roads of, Of North Carolina. By the time you get home, I was ready to take on another day of work.

[A]

So after selection, you know, basically they give you a month to pack your PCs to brag, and you know, within days, you know, we're all driving in there and getting our issue and all this. And I see us, I see the Batmobile, I'm like, I'm gonna be friends with that.

[B]

I love that car. So fast forward.

[A]

I think we're. It was probably shortly before you were asked to leave.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Invited to leave.

[A]

Invited to leave.

[D]

I like that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good one.

[B]

I was invited to leave.

[A]

You had all of us over to your guys's. I think you were living an apartment.

[B]

That's right. We're living in a.

[A]

You and the wife and.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know where all the 12 kids were.

[B]

I didn't know it was just me. It was just me and the wife at the time.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But I show up with Tom Habanek and a couple other people and we're just gonna have fun. It's a karaoke night and I show up and. And Brett answers the door and I can't even say who he looked like. Like the singer from skid row.

[D]

Oh, he takes things seriously.

[A]

Leather, black leather pants, silky shirt on, and a wig.

[D]

This doesn't surprise me. Out.

[A]

No, no, but I didn't know this about him.

[D]

Did you see the July 4 episode he did here? No, I was on vacation, so he.

[B]

Did the whole thing.

[D]

And he. And they. He made everybody dress up. Like colonial character.

[B]

Yeah, like colonial. Big white powdered wigs, big blue jackets.

[A]

Classic.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So that wasn't even the surprising part.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

You know, there was an hour later, we're all. Everybody showed up or, you know, we're pounding some drinks and eating some food and laughing. And Brett's like, it's karaoke time. And I could tell, like, he was really into this. I'm like, I ain't singing these guys no way.

[B]

Well, him and his wife, and she's decked out too.

[A]

I don't know if you ever met his ex wife. Yeah, Ellie May. She's a hammer.

[B]

That was a fun time.

[C]

Yeah, she.

[A]

Beautiful woman. No offense.

[B]

No, she. Yeah, she was. She is.

[A]

They. They were decked out in this 80s.

[B]

80S, 80s rock garden.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

They look like they were in Poison. Were they the only ones dressed up? Absolutely.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, I forgot to send that text.

[B]

So do you remember the old video game Rock Band?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So they. They pump it up on the tv, bro. And they start kicking off some tunes, and they're really good. Yeah, he's got it. He's got the Ross guitar out and he's just rocking out with this out, and Ellie May's right there going with it. They're saying it. They're good. I was impressed.

[B]

We. We. We bought a mic stand and everything. So it. So, so it looked like you. So you could play guitar and have the rock and have the. The mic stand and I'd have like the. The leather print scarf on. On the. On the. On the mic stand and. Oh, Ryan E. Was over. He was always. Ryan loved to be the drum. He was always the drummer.

[A]

Yeah, he was a great dude.

[B]

Oh, we. We had some. So that by the time you got there, it kind of grown like, bigger and bigger and bigger and that kind of turned into like a. Like a. A class wide, you know, party by. By that time.

[A]

So that started as a team party.

[B]

That started as a team party, and then a couple more people got invited and at some point, like, let's have. Let's have the band over everyone. And usually we started out at Mikasitas And. And then headed over to the. Headed over the apartment.

[A]

That was fun time, man.

[B]

Oh, those were. Those are really, really fun, fun parties.

[A]

But you guys were actually. People probably don't know that about you. You're a good karaoke singer. You can rock it out.

[B]

It's.

[C]

It.

[B]

I'm really good.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Unfortunately, there are also some videos of me out there. Not every song's my song.

[C]

And.

[A]

Yeah, you know, we all got this. Especially in the car. By yourself?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Or heck, maybe not. Every night's my night.

[C]

It.

[B]

It depends. But those nights I was on, for sure.

[A]

That was a good time.

[B]

I. I didn't know you were gonna bring up the rock band.

[A]

That was probably the funnest night in OTC I had.

[B]

Oh, yeah. And. And almost. Did it happen that night? Did the cops show up? They usually would let us party pretty. Pretty hard. Pretty long.

[A]

And then the cops not have been there when that happened.

[B]

And then cops would show up, and they were always super nice about it.

[C]

It.

[B]

You know, they'd like, hey, just getting. Getting some complaints, like, all right. Like, we're. Because we're not looking to. To get in any sort of trouble, right? We. You just want to pass this course. And so the cops would always show up around 1. Whenever they decide to show up. You're like, well, fun. Fun's over. Cops showed up.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So respectful to them. Of course. I'm sure it looks odd when I open the door. No shirt, black leather pants, black. Big black wig. And they're like, not sure part you guys have here, but. But you're awful respectful about it, so.

[A]

That was a good time, though.

[B]

A bunch of dudes in here, huh?

[A]

One chick, leather pants, the.

[B]

Oh, gosh, I will. I will tell. I tell one story. I don't know if you. If you remember this, so.

[A]

Oh, we were.

[B]

It didn't really have to. You know, you're really a. A gray man of sorts. Like, you know, I don't try.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I don't. But there was one man that just wasn't as much as a gray man.

[A]

It was Zach Spicer, my roommate.

[B]

Zach.

[A]

Matter of fact, I ran into Zach two weeks ago in the Chicago airport, like, in the night.

[B]

I still try. I'm not very well, but I still keep. Keep tabs on Zach, and he's doing great. Yeah. This farmhouse every day. Zach's one of my favorite people in the world. Zach is a funny guy. He's kind of. He's a little bit goofy. If. If he'll show that side to You. But. But. But he's got a. He's got a dark switch to him. He's got a dark switch to him.

[A]

One of the best operators.

[B]

Oh, such a good dude. So we're transitioning from. From.

[A]

From.

[B]

From one house to another house. And. And I think I was in the lead going, and I. And I remember Zach being like, hey, Brent, let me get this off you. And I don't know what he's doing, but. But I know what he's asking for because I can hear him, like, you know, grabbing some flashbangs on my back. And he throws his flashbang on the move. We're like 30ft away, and it. And it's a perfect throw. Goes in. We clear this thing. What I thought was pretty awesome. It was a good run to what I thought our standards were. And we had a. We had a very special, large, muscular, angry man for. As our cadre and I worked for.

[A]

For many years after that, he goes.

[B]

Bring it in, guys. And I'm telling you, I'm giddy. I'm like, he's gonna have to tell us.

[A]

No, he's gonna have to tell you did anything right?

[B]

He's gonna have to tell us.

[C]

We did good.

[B]

Like, we crushed that. Like that, like that. Like, Zach pulling that off my back on the move. That was some operator stuff right there. And he goes, who the f threw that flashbang? And I look at Zach. Zach's had a smile on his face. I remember talking about to Zach after this, because Zach's thinking the same thing. He's like, time to get my time to get my go. Time to get my time to get my credit. And he's like, what the f were you thinking? That was the stupidest flashbang throw I'd ever seen. He goes, you're going to throw it from 30ft away, have it go off way before you make entry, and then make entry about three seconds after that. You think that's a good use of a flashbang. You're an idiot. And we're all like, no, we're back to idiots. But, yeah, that was. But, man, I could. I could actually go on and on with just really the. The funny things when you do that many hits as. As a student and as a. As an inexperienced student, we just did so many things wrong. But that's how you learned it. You know, you screwed up and you tried, and that was you. The moniker of otc, right? You can screw up. Just don't make the same mistake twice. But we were really creative on our first mistakes. We Did. We had. It was. It was so stressful. We had a. That was a good time. That was a really good time. And when I went back to otc, one of my biggest concerns was like, I, I love those guys. My first OTC so much. Like, there's no way.

[A]

It's never gonna be the same.

[B]

It's never gonna be the same.

[C]

Yeah, it.

[B]

And. And it was, but it wasn't for a while.

[A]

How long did you have to wait to come back?

[B]

Two years.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

And I came back two years on. On the dot and. And it goes back to it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I walked around depressed for about six months, figured out, well, this ain't gonna do it, and ended up going on the best deployment mile. And one of my top three deployments was without SF deployment that I would not have gone on if I didn't get to do go do that. So good.

[C]

Every.

[B]

Everything works out. But, man, I've got to miss you guys. I still keep in touch with that. Most of that class.

[A]

Yeah, that's good.

[B]

And then when we're done with this, I'll tell you. I'll tell you some more stories and, and with. With some more names. But what was coming from. I didn't know you were an rd. I don't. Maybe. Maybe I did. I must have forgot that. But you were at a high level before this. And this is really like the question that ever since you said that I've been. I've been really wanting to ask you, like that is if I really thought about it, maybe them and maybe the sif, but like, those are the, those are the top level units outside of the unit.

[A]

It's the second best place to be outside the unit.

[C]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

How did it. Did it have the same effect on you when you showed up to the unit for the first time and you. And you saw the training and the training program and you're like, this. Is this, this is drastically different. Or do you like this? This is different. But you know, wasn't as drastic to maybe me who came from a regular oda.

[A]

I mean, I wouldn't say we had that many more resources that Ranger regiment.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

We didn't really in rd, still had to use the same thing as all the battalions.

[B]

You did get like a double issue of uniforms. And I know, I know that that was.

[A]

We had extra gear. You had a lot of gear, extra comms gear and all that stuff.

[C]

That.

[A]

That's what we had. But training wise, you know, we went to some cool driving courses and different types of stuff, but when you show up to the big red house. There's no place like it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So it is magical.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's a magic place.

[B]

So on. On. That is actually probably a good time to transition.

[C]

It.

[B]

It is. It is a magical place. And there's. And you're only.

[C]

If.

[B]

If you're lucky enough to spend a career there, you're pretty much only leaving two ways. Mentally, which is, mentally, you're ready to leave because it's. It's beating you down, or at the end of the day, like, that's your identity, and you are not ready to leave.

[C]

What.

[B]

Which. Which side of the fence did you fall on? When. Is when it was time to hang it up? Because essentially. Essentially you got to be on a team almost your whole career.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, which is what I wanted.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I never had any desire to move up past that team level. Like, never wanted to be a platoon sergeant. I never wanted to be a troop sergeant major. So my entire goal was stay on a team as long as possible, which.

[B]

Goes back to kind of the gift that it gave you by coming back eight years later. That was eight years of team time you got. And then your team time reset and you could finish out your career as. As a team guy, which is.

[A]

I think I might have been the oldest dude in our OTC class.

[C]

How. You.

[B]

You were older than us and you not. Didn't look. He's like an old guy necessarily.

[A]

I was 32.

[B]

You're 32? Yeah.

[A]

I also was like an E8 by then.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was. I was 30 and I was. I don't think there would have been anyone. Frank maybe.

[A]

Frank maybe.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, that's. It's. I mean, you're. You're definitely a seasoned person when you get the unit 32, which is a good thing.

[A]

And I already had, I think I want to say, eight deployments under my belt before going there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, that's. That's awesome. Yeah. So were you ready to leave when. When you left mentally, were you not ready to leave or. A little. I guess. I guess there could be a seek. That could be a bit. Little of both.

[A]

No, I. I was definitely ready, man. I was. We can get into this more because this kind of talks about the. The whole transition and where I'm at today, really. I was. I was absolutely 100 ready to leave. You know, my time as a team leader was probably my. I hate to say this, because it's supposed to be the best time, but it was probably my worst time in the Unit just because I was so mentally.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And physically. And my guys will tell you this too. Like, I was kind of like Brett Favre, trying to play one more year and hold on to the glory days. Just trying to crawl across the finish line.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that's all I wanted to do, man. I wanted to be a team leader and then. And then retire. But what happened to me was. But what happened was back in 2014, I was a 2 IC and I freaking got malaria on a deployment in Africa. And it, it couldn't have been worse timing. I came back from that deployment two days, two or three days before my, my first kid was born. My daughter.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And up, up half the night with my ex wife in the hospital, my daughter's born. You know, it's supposed to be a great day. We were also moving houses that weekend. So I came home from a deployment, six, five month deployment straight into moving houses. Just sold our house. I'm actually getting ready to thinking about retiring.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

We already had our retirement house out in Asheville.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

My daughter's born. Like life's supposed to be good, right. Well, that same night I like got sick as went in the hospital for the next six months. Like, oh, I had malaria. And it almost killed me. The drugs they gave me to kill the malaria killed my liver. Poison my liver. So they sent me to Duke for a few months. Then I was in Mayo Clinic in Phoenix for a few months. Hadn't seen my newborn daughter at like at all for six months.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Almost died. I was. I went from £190 down to like 115 in a month. And I was bright yellow. We actually had a couple. One of my buddies, I won't name his name, but he had cancer at the time. He's going through chemo in the unit.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And he looked normal. And everybody's like, dude, what's wrong with you? But I almost died from it. So that up my sleep so bad. Like I, I went a year of like ranger school. Not sleeping just because of the poison coming out of my body. My liver trying to recover.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So it really me up bad. And I just, you know, I wanted to get back in the fight. You know. We had a really big mission about to happen when I was just starting to get better.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And the unit sent me off to go do down here to Florida to basically work out for a few months and get healthy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Put some weight back on.

[B]

Trying to think about that program.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Exos.

[B]

Exos.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I went down there. But even after I got back, man, I was never, never right again. Like, just because of the sleep deprivation, I think, and my head was messed up. It was just a culmination of years of deployments and just being a lot of TBIs. And I think when I got sick with the malaria, it really compounded my tbi, which nobody really knew about back then that it was really even a problem. Hey, let's suck all these charges up 80 times a day. And it's normal, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So we've got these smaller chargers.

[A]

Yeah, we really do. Or get rid of the. The walls that reflect all the blast back into you. We could talk about this for days. But to answer your question, I left in a really bad spot. I left because I was broke. I was done.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And, you know, people ask me all the time, you miss the job, you miss being in the unit, and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, no, I don't. I don't miss a day of it. Yeah, I missed the guys.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I missed my. My tribe and. And my bros, which I keep in touch with a lot of them. But do I miss the job? No, man. I was broke the down bad. And it took me years to recover from that after I was out. So you're right. You know, there's one of two ways you're leaving. I. I left on the downside.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But on. I will tell you, I've.

[A]

I've.

[B]

Because I had a similar experience in a similar path as far as my whole time was on a team. And we have got to. We've got to save guys from themselves, and we have got to say, hey, I know you think you're in great shape right now.

[A]

Mandatory break.

[C]

You're.

[B]

You're gonna go to CDD for a year, whether you like it or not. Like, for guys who, you know, some Green Berets, before they came here, you know, were squick instructors, and they got that mandatory break or, you know, whatever it is. But if. At that time, if you've truly been on a team for that long, when it. When it breaks, it's going to break quick, and it's going to break fast, and it's going to be. It's going to be bad.

[A]

And you don't need to be the team leader when that happens.

[B]

No.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't. I don't know how to fix that, because that's the type of guys that will always be at the unit, and this is the type of guys you want that have to be.

[A]

It was me, man, because that. That was all I wanted to finish my career out. And you know, it's like, it's always like, hey, I'm good, but really, you're not.

[C]

No.

[A]

And looking back. Looking back.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Not good at all.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The. How'd you end up had, you know, you went to. When I met you at the Sly Fox. Remember having lunch with me at the Sly Fox?

[A]

That's when I think you were just retiring.

[B]

Just retiring. And that's when the car jealousy thing got to switch. And I saw your first gen Camaro and I was like, damn, I don't have a Corvette anymore. I was like, retirement be a lot cooler. Like when I was in OTC and got the driveway and something cool. Retirement would be a lot cooler if I had his silver and black stripe.

[A]

But now you're just an old dude driving a Corvette.

[B]

I am. I'm going to rebuy the C8. Corvettes come calling my name every day. But you went to the Duke School of Business.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

At some point. Was that. Was that one of the first things you did? Big steps you took after retirement?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So that, you know, luckily I had half a brain. And one of the things I. I always told myself I was going to do is get my undergrad degree before I retired. It took me like 20 some years.

[B]

But yeah, I did it just right. Doesn't matter how long it takes. That's not on your. On your. On your certificate.

[A]

No, no. But I did it and I'm very proud of that because nobody in my family ever went to college ever. And it was a big deal for me personally. And yeah, I went to this transition program. You know, we. I don't even think we had the office stood up yet or they maybe just stood that office up.

[B]

Apex just stood it up. Yeah, yeah, they just stood it up.

[A]

So they were trying to help guys transition and starting to get involved in all these programs. And one of the initial programs we did was the Commit Foundation. Anne Marie Craig was still running it back then. Some. I think a X Ranger runs it now. Maybe I don't want to say his name because I'll get it wrong, but great program. But she actually talked some sense into me. It was. We were out in Whitefish, Montana for a week.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

She's like, what do you want to do when you get out? And I said, I don't really have that many options. I'm a counter terrorist specialist.

[B]

Just not a lot of things directly rescue.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So I was like, I'll probably be like everybody else and go do this same job. As a civilian and make three times as much.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You know, ground branch or whatever and. Or security for somebody. She's like, you guys are all the same. She's like, you're in the most elite, at least elite unit in the world. You guys, you know, you brief the president, for Christ's sake, and ambassadors and generals all the time. Like, you guys can do anything you want to do.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

She's like, if you could go work anywhere, any company, and do whatever you want, what would it be? And at the time, you know, I was really interested. Tesla was just coming out. I was really interested. I was following Elon. I said, well, if I could do it, if I could do anything, right, I want to go work with Elon at Tesla. She's like, why don't you.

[B]

Such a simple question. That's true.

[A]

And I. It got my brain going. I'm like, you know, you're right. We are badasses. We could do whatever the we want.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I got my brain going, and next thing I know, I applied to business school. I was just wrapping up. I still had two classes to go to finish my undergrad degree. When I got accepted to Duke's MBA program, I was very proud of that. I had a lot of help from people to help me with my resume and, like, my. All my essays and just getting in. I very thankful for the people that helped me along the way with that. And.

[B]

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

To go from the Delta Force to the. To get an NBA at Duke is. Is. It's just. It's just another. It's just another phase of a wild ride.

[D]

Probably no one else just used in that in the entire world, right?

[A]

Oh, no, there's been. There's been a lot of guys do it after me. There was one or two before me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I was about to say, when you did it, though, that was the beginning of that.

[A]

We had another guy going. I don't want to name his name.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Friend of mine. He got out just in front of me, and he went to Stanford. Okay, man.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

GI Bill. Cover that.

[A]

Not all of it. Some of it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But obviously there's, you know, there's scholarships out there and other stuff. Yeah, man, it was a big deal. It really wasn't.

[B]

How challenging was that for you? Because at the end of the day, we academically do whatever you want to do.

[A]

It was the most challenging thing I've ever done academically. But also it was like, again, I look back and my head's like, completely at this point.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like I should have never went right into that program, but on top of it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Not only did I get accepted and start the Duke program, but I was like, I want to do an internship at Tesla. So I. I got on LinkedIn and I just started sent blasting out some cold emails to people that worked at Tesla. And the one guy that replied to me like literally a day later ended up being my boss there. He loved my background and.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And loved the fact I was trying to do something different.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that was my mentality. I walked out of the team room and I. I wanted to be as far away from the government as possible. I don't want anything to do with the government. I'm changing my life, my network, everything. So cold. Emailed this dude. He ends up becoming my boss. He hires me right away. I sign out of the unit and I'm driving across the US in a U haul to LA to work at the Tesla design studio.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And what was your job was.

[B]

That was the job that.

[A]

So I was actually working on a couple cool like R D project projects to improve the cameras on the car.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

You know, they were still working on. They had it nailed down. But it was a very simplistic system. The cameras on the Teslas for the autopilot.

[C]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

And I said, hey, we can upgrade these cameras and get better night vision, you know, using IR and.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Near ir. Different spectrums.

[B]

How's that for two completely different business models, but they actually intersect with night vision and ir.

[A]

So that's what I was doing there. Got to. We're the model. Y was in clay on the floor. I didn't have it any, but it was cool.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

They had the two roadsters sitting there that they still haven't built yet. We were. The cyber truck was in conceptual design at the time. I got to have some input on that. And it turned out nothing like what we were working on at the time.

[C]

Yeah. The.

[A]

The Tesla semi truck was about to hit the road.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

It was exciting times, man. For sure. In the corporate world, there was no place I would have rather done an internship. But it also made me realize, like, I want nothing to do with corporate world.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That's just not our personality.

[B]

So one way you got to figure that. And I feel like the. And it could be wrong. And that's got to be the most. How do I say this. Lenient of corporate worlds. Because Tesla has.

[A]

It was still kind of startup. Startup mentality out there at that time.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Even though they were full production on the Model 3.

[B]

Okay, it was start.

[A]

You could see it starting to turn big corporate, right? But Elon was always, you know, ran things like a startup and you know, super impressed with that guy. But obviously that was eight, seven years ago. But what I will say, you have to. You can't even imagine the culture shock I went through. So literally Monday morning I'm signing out of the unit. The next Monday morning I'm signing into Tesla, right? And of all places, I sign into the design studio, which is a very, very creative people. So I walk in there, I get badged in. It's very secure place inside of SpaceX.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So I get badged in there, meet my boss and the team, and the first thing I notice, man, the chow hall in there, there's a massive, probably 50 by 25 foot rainbow flag.

[B]

Oh, what? Why are we bringing sexuality into the workplace?

[A]

Dude, it was just what you are culture shock for me.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And literally there was, there's a couple hundred people working in there and mostly dudes, handful of women, I would say there was four, maybe five of the guys there on my team, including myself and my boss, who were not gay, that were straight, I should say, right?

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then the next thing that happened very quickly after that. I don't know if you remember this, but back in 2018, Tesla was not profitable back then, okay? They were on the cusp. So as a businessman, the quickest way to become profitable is to cut your salaries and your employees. So Elon said, hey, first of many to come. 5, 000 people are getting cut. It's like by the, by Friday. So figure out who that is.

[B]

Guacamole.

[A]

And it was like a 10% across the board from the factory to the gigafactory to even down to the design studio. So it met like one guy off of our team and everybody's team.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Next thing I know, man, I'm going into the the gym. They had a pretty decent little gym there. I was the only one that used it. So I go in the locker room to change and there's like 15 dudes in there huddled around each other and they're all bawling their eyes out because one of the one or two of those dudes just got fired on a Friday afternoon. And I'm like, what the is wrong with you guys? Like, go find another job, who cares? But it was the end of their world, bro. End of their world.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

So as you can imagine, like coming off the team, literally just came back from a deployment right? Before that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And next thing I know, I'm watching.

[B]

This isn't life or death, guys. It's a job teen.

[C]

Dude.

[A]

It's crying their eyes out because they just lost a job at Tesla. And I'm like, Jesus Christ, man, what am I, what did I get myself into? Yeah, so I did almost a year there. School got the best of me, I would say towards the first, end of the first year there and I, I said, hey, I'm really, my whole goal in life right now is to finish this business program and if I, I got to do whatever it takes. Yeah, it's like getting through otc.

[C]

Right, Right. Yep.

[A]

So I, I took off work, didn't have a paycheck coming in, paying child support, living in an expensive apartment on Hermosa Beach. You know, a little one bedroom apartment near the beach is like 3, 500 bucks a month. That's my whole check.

[C]

Right? Yeah.

[A]

So get Slim there for a while. But yeah, that was also a really bad time in my life. You know, a lot of people tell you this, that have experienced it. Like LA is, it's a big city, but it's also the loneliest city to live in. Especially as a single person and with my mental state at the time, it was not good. I shouldn't have been there. It was, it was a rough two years.

[B]

So how, how'd you, looking back, how'd you cope with that?

[A]

Just a lot of drugs and alcohol. Yeah, a lot of, a lot of vodka.

[B]

A lot, a lot of that. Kind of in the isolated atmosphere as well.

[A]

Oh yeah, dude. I'd sit in my beach house and drink a, a handle of vodka a night. Yeah, it's by myself some nights.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, one of my favorite. Someone else said this and it just really resonated with, you know, with heavy drinking and, and drinking for, for those type of reasons, which is drinking is barring happiness from tomorrow.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's, and it's really true. Like you'll, you'll feel a little better, you know, get your worries away for a little bit. But you're barring happiness from tomorrow and tomorrow, tomorrow's. Tomorrow won't be better because of it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

End of the day I was just self medicating.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But we still do it.

[A]

Yeah, I don't anymore actually. Next week will be my one year anniversary and I'm very, very proud of that. And it's, it's probably one of the best decisions I've made in my life. One of the top five.

[C]

Yeah. Good for you. Yeah.

[A]

And trust me, I love drinking. Love it, love it, love it. Since I was like 15.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I'm to the point now, man. I don't miss it. And even all the work I do, I'm out with people all the time. That's part of my job is to be social and host people and, and frankly, get them drunk sometimes. But yeah, I've gotten to the point now where, like, I can order a ginger beer.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Or ginger ale. That's my go to. They think I'm drinking because it has a little color to it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm good, man. Like, it doesn't bother me. And, and actually the cool part about it is I, I found that most of the guys I hang out with because they're like tier one dudes from all over the world, they actually respect it a lot and they're completely cool with it.

[B]

Yeah. No one ever cares. Yeah. You're the only one that, that, that cares. A source until you realize that no one cares.

[A]

And end of the day, I don't give a anymore what everybody thinks. That's what it boils down to because it's, it's about me and my health and my family.

[B]

So you go back to focusing on, on the MBA.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

How long is that course?

[A]

18 month course.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Almost 20 months. It was a really great program. And you know, I tell people I. Because of where we came from in the unit and the connections we had. And I had, I did have a good GPA on my undergrad because it took me 20 years to get it. Very easy to get a high gpa. I could have went to Harvard. I could have went to Stanford. I chose Duke because they had the best international business program and all the traveling we did in the military.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I said, if I'm going to be in the business world, I already know people across the world, Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I want to do international business. And part of their program was every quarter we would go to a different part of the world that's the biggest business hub. Like, we went to Berlin, Germany. We went to Santiago, Chile. We went to Shanghai, China. I'm missing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Missing one here. Anyways.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Those are awesome.

[A]

That was part of the program.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And on top of it, I. We had to be there for two weeks, but I would add two to three weeks to that trip just for like, explore, exploration and kind of make a little vacation out of it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was part of the, you know, the team did that as well. A few of us would meet up and we went hiking Around China. It was cool. So, yeah, it was a great program, man. And, you know, being in tech now, sometimes I have regrets. I didn't go to Stanford and Harvard and all their policies. I'm glad they're getting fried right now, but Stanford's maybe the only other school I would have went to, and at that point, I'm glad I didn't, just because it was California and, Yeah, I would have had more roots to California, which I don't want.

[C]

Right. So.

[A]

Well, Duke was a great school. It still is a great school. I'm glad I went there. I made a lot of good friends outside of the military. And really, that's what an MBA program's about is, is your network and the friends you make in that class because they sure as don't teach you how to run a business.

[C]

Yeah, well.

[B]

Well, luckily for Tesla, they ended up pulling up shop and moving to. To Texas.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, but what. What'd you do after your. Your mba?

[A]

So, yeah, man, funny. It was a. It was really a turning point in my life. And I'd say spring of 2019, my. My drinking had gotten so bad, my whole focus. She's gonna kill me. But my whole focus at that time was pretty much getting laid in la. And it's very easy to do. I. I had an addiction to women as well, so I made the best decision in my life and I said, I gotta get the. Out of la, because I was drinking a lot, doing drugs and womenizing.

[C]

And.

[A]

We got back from China and I said, I'm out of here. I. I picked up and one of our buddies, Dave B.

[B]

At the time, one of my favorite.

[A]

People, he was over in Phoenix, and we had some friends there, and I moved over there just to maybe have. Have a little network and some tribe.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

I remember when he was there doing that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so, yeah, just got back from a trip and I said, oh, I was in India, matter of fact, and I. I moved to Phoenix, like, the day after I got back. And sure, as man as. As luck would have it, I met my wife there that same weekend. Oh, yeah?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

How'd you meet her? It was the.

[A]

The online story.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

But I met her. I. I take this back. I didn't just get back from India. I moved to Phoenix and I left for India for a month.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So I met her that weekend, or we hooked up, connected, and then we talked for a month and actually met up the day after I got back from India, and the rest is history.

[B]

That's a great foundation right there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Actually.

[A]

But I couldn't have got luckier, man. That woman has changed my life for the better. And now we have a couple kids and we have a great life. I'm blessed.

[B]

I love to hear it.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But that was, that was kind of the turning point. Now don't get me wrong, the next couple years we had some issues and I had a lot of issues I was dealing with, which, you know, luckily I was ready to try something new to fix my life. And I, I really got into plant medicine then.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And it's, it's changed my life for the better. And a lot of guys that we know and it saved their life, it saved my life. You know, it was also at a time my ex wife left me. We had a three year old together and she was constantly telling me to kill myself because she hates my guts. And little did she know I was, I was probably in the bedroom an hour before that with a Glock in my mouth and then she's texting me, just go kill yourself.

[B]

You know, so hold on.

[A]

I was at that point where I almost did it a couple times. And like I said, luckily I met my, my wife and not only she saved my life, she's made me like into a much better person with her help. And the plant medicines played a big part in that.

[B]

When you say plant medicine, what do you mean by that?

[A]

Yeah, so there's, it really is a gamut of different things. Medicines that have been around for thousands of years and we as Western society have pushed them away and, and made them bad. You know, the whole war against drugs and blah, blah, blah from when we were kids in the 80s. You know, you got ibogaine that comes from tree bark in West Africa. They've used that for, since man was around to solve almost all their health issues and problems. It's, it's great. You know, we've just now been studying that in the US and it's in university and clinical trials now for treating addiction. It's really good for. But also there's a, there's another spiritual side to it. You know, it's, it's very similar to like ayahuasca. You know, they call ibogaine the grandfather drug because it's very hard. It's like your grandfather, right. It's very harsh and it's, it's not going to give you what you, it's going to give you what you need, not what you want.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Is what they say. And then you got ayahuasca, who's the grandmother and she comes from South America, and they've been using it in the Amazon for thousands of years. Right.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So these, These plant medicines have been around and, you know, we just shunned them here in Western society, and they're starting to come back around and I'd love to see it, but in my opinion, and from what I've seen the last six, seven years, me personally, they. They really are the. The magic and the keys to the kingdom, to helping our guys out from everything we've been through, which I think's.

[B]

A great time to talk about. You know, it's easy to see, well, while you're on the. The path that you're on now with. With Elevated Operator, and I'm. Something tells me that has a. A huge impact and into what you're doing now.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And why you're doing it. And so tell us about Elevated Operator.

[A]

Yeah, so we just started this company up back in January, friend of mine. And really it's, you know, we take a holistic approach to life now, and it's everything from your. Your sleep to your diet to everything. And, you know, I know you're. You guys are into coffee and cigars and, And. And booze now, which. That's. That's cool, man. Like, the guys love that. That's just not me anymore.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

My wife is a big nerd. She's. She's all into. She's actually a. A pa. So she's in the medical field. She does a lot of work with the guys and hormone treatments and therapies.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

That's what she does for a living. But she's also really big into biohacking and her. And I listen to Dave Asprey all the time. Podcasts and. And, you know, last year when I quit drinking, I. I just got to a point in my life, and it was also the. The plant medicine. I, I do a lot of. I eat a lot of mushrooms for just my own sanity and dealing with society. But I got to a point where not only was the medicine telling me like, hey, you need to get yourself better, I said, hey, man, it's time to quit around. I'm gonna be 48 years old next week.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And when I was turning 47 last year, I said, hey, for once in your life, man, see, why don't you just try to optimize yourself, do it for a year and just see the best version of yourself you can be, mentally and physically. And it starts with getting rid of the booze.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because we all know that's not good for Your brain or your. Anything in your body or sleep. So I said, hey, I'm gonna give up the boost for a year, see how it goes. And, man, did my sleep get so much better. And sleep, sleep and inflammation in your body is the root cause of everything. Yeah, it really is. It's the cause of all your pain and like your bad thoughts and everything. Man, sleep. Sleep is the, the root cause. And then so my sleep's improved drastically. Man, I'm sleeping like a baby. Except for when I travel, I. I don't sleep good. But when I'm home in bed with my wife, like, I get a solid eight hours. And I got the aura ring a while back and I track all that and yeah, REM and deep sleep. And so I just said, hey, I'm gonna give this a year. And, you know, here I am a year later and I am in the best shape of my life. I feel better now at 48 than I did when I was 20.

[C]

Yeah, you know, the.

[B]

I'm a huge advocate of. And don't get me wrong, like, if you want to go completely clean, go completely clean. Like I said. That's not saying that by, by any means. I don't, I'm not saying. This is what you're saying. Don't get me wrong. But there's, you know, I live my life in a. Out of, you know, everything. Everything within reason. So if you want to have a cup of coffee in the morning to get you going, do it. You want to have a cigar in the afternoon, you know, to keep you going, do it. You know, you want to have a drink at night, do it. The problem comes when people have two cups of coffee in the morning and they have two cups of coffee in the afternoon, you know, and then, and now you're smoking all day and then at night.

[A]

That's the problem with us though, Brad.

[B]

I know.

[A]

There's no everybody that I know. Yeah, we're all extremists, right. And everything we do, we're extremists. There's no moderation.

[B]

No moderation was world.

[A]

It took me 47 years to figure that out. Like, bro, you can't just have one drink. It doesn't end there, you know, Next thing you know, you're. You're up at 3 in the morning and you're 15 old fashioned deep. That was every night.

[C]

Right?

[B]

It gets expensive too.

[A]

Not on the company. I even told my old boss, I was like, bro, I just saved you 20 grand a year. That's no joke.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, but you know, I, I, I, I do, I do all that in, in, in moderation.

[A]

Good for you. I'm happy for you that you're one of the, that can do that because I couldn't the.

[B]

But you know, but you know what I have at night? Every night I have night ops. Mushroom tea from elevated operator.

[C]

Yeah, I do.

[A]

Well. So, yeah, there you go.

[B]

That's every night.

[A]

One of the things that helped me.

[B]

It's, it's, it's my reset and I have a really hard time. Yeah. I didn't bring you on here to, to plug your stuff. I believe in yourself enough. We have it on our website, you know, and I take it every night. If, if I'm traveling and I don't take it with me, it, my brain just doesn't turn off at night. And if I don't have something that induces a little bit of tiredness, a little bit of sleep, a little bit of. That kind of gets you over the hump a little bit to get you to sleep. And there's been a lot of things that I've taken for sleep that make me really groggy in the morning, hangover the next day.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I can't have that. And so that's the one thing I've used that, that's a weird way. It gently gets me to sleep and the next day I feel recovered.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And, and ever since I started using that, I drink it every, I try to drink it every night and I, and I hate it the nights that I don't.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So we just, we just launched the individual serving tea bags. So you can take them on the go now.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

That's, that is one of the reasons I don't take it on the go because I had to go buy those little. Yeah. Tea strainers. But you know, it's just part of my, my settling down at night. But yeah, we're, we're going to carry those next because they're, they're convenient.

[A]

So. Yeah, how that came about, man, is I, I'm like you and everybody else, man. I've tried everything. I've. I 20 milligrams of melatonin, which is, you know, they recommend three.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Or we take sleeping pills. And I actually started having seizures after I retired. My wife, I think we were dating for like three, four months. She found me in the bathroom having seizures. She heard me hit the, hit my head on the floor. Next thing I know, I woke up in the er.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I quit taking the trazodone and all the shit. The va was pumping into me. I just got tired of all the drugs and, and the antidepressants and sleep pills. And on top of it I was, you know, drinking so psilocybin specifically and, and micro dosing that has gotten me off all my meds, even Adderall. And I still feel great. Like before, I couldn't get my ass out of bed without taking Adderall or even function with the brain fog.

[B]

And the brain fog.

[A]

Yeah, the worst. So once I got my sleep right, and I was actually doing a retreat with one of my shamans and he's a big herbalist and he, he told me about some of the other ingredients that we put in the night ops that I never knew about. You know, every sleepy tea you see on the shelf is like chamomile and one or two other ingredients. But he told me about like three or four other things. Passion flower and a couple other things we put in there that nobody else was doing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's the, that's the magic stuff, man. That really like in, in 15, 20 minutes you're like, I can't stay away. I can't keep my eyes open now. But you're right, it'll get you to sleep, get you over that hump and there's nothing the next day. And so I, I discovered that like a year ago, I put it together for myself and I was like, my bros need this. Like.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, none of these dudes sleep. If I could just get this out there to them, put a cool label on it and help some guys out. Because that's, that's a lot of the other work I do is I work with a couple non profits and, and actually we started Elevated Operator and we're going to give a lot of the funds back to sock f Special Operations Carefront.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Which, you know, I, I need to give them a plug because Jeremy, my brother, he's not only is he the one that kind of. When I was in a really bad spot, he reached out to me just to catch up, number one. And then secondly, he got me a job at CRY working beside him. And it was like Jeremy and I were privates together back in 1st Battalion, 18 year olds together. So I'd known that dude.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Longer than most people I. Most family I've known, you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And he is one of. One of the top five best humans in the world. And you know, after working with him at CRY for three years, he moved over to become the director of Special Operations Care Fund. And there's not a better person in the world to run that organization. They were growing, the need was growing. And really what they do is they pick up different modalities of cares for our guys where the VA just doesn't have a clue. Or, you know, alternative medicines.

[B]

That's right. Or, or they think they have a clue and they're going to send you down the wrong path.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That may have short term benefits, but will actually put you down a worse road than you were on.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, end of the day, my experience with the VA and I'm sure a thousand other guys will tell you this is they're just going to give you meds and.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Kick your ass down the road. They're all about giving you sleeping pills and antidepressants and bro, I felt like a zombie for six months and I had to get off that. And again, the plant medicine is the only way I was able to, to move on from that stuff and really saved my life.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I love that you're doing that and with, with tea because I know it's, it's, it's, it's a great niche because even though I know coffee company, I wouldn't believe the amount we've already sold out of our first batch of your stuff. There's a lot of people that won't drink coffee. They'll drink tea. We get it all the time. Hey, do you guys have tea? And at first, like, what, I'm a coffee company. Why would I have tea? And then when you reached out to me and told me about that, I was like, hold on. I get enough people, you know, asking us about tea. It's. And I think it's. And if someone's looking for that, you know, I've tried to cut down my, my monster intake. That's just another thing. That's just a bad habit.

[A]

Well, again, it goes back to. It messes up your sleep. End of the day.

[C]

Right? Yeah.

[D]

Running out of it doesn't count as cutting back.

[C]

But. Yeah.

[B]

But again, it kind of goes back to, you know, it's just hate everything within. I already forgot the word.

[A]

We used it earlier.

[B]

Moderation.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, don't drink three a day. Drink one a day and then supplement that with tea. You know, like, there's a lot of things you can do to that. I think that we just, we, we get down this road and they're like, well, this, this one monster helped me, so two's got to be better.

[A]

It's gonna be a tough day.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, Exactly. That's right. And then you're up to three a day and then, and then you're at a spot where like this is what I need to get by and say, well, hey, maybe you don't have to go cold turkey on something. But. But hey, we can change something. Change something in your routine and just don't expect things to get better out of hope and no change. So that's, that's usually my, my, my advice to. To people and they'll. And they'll find out that it works.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So is there the. What. What do you have the. The day t. The night tea and then they're. They're loose leaf. And coming out is the.

[A]

We already released.

[B]

You already released it.

[A]

We just had a company make us little pyramid sachet bags. Individual servings.

[B]

A little closer to the mic.

[A]

Yeah, we just had a company make individual serving pyramid sachet bags for us. Real nice. But that was same problem I had. I wanted to take it on the road with me and I got tired of my tea strainers getting demolished in my travel bag.

[B]

I love that you picked up another business partners if you're not busy enough between. Between the rest of your work. Hey, let's, let's. Let's start a company from, from the ground up.

[A]

So, I mean, I got a really good partner. It's easy and it's fun. It's kind of a side hustle. We're not looking to make any money on it really. We just want to support the guys and if. And give back. You know, I heard it. I really like this dude named Denzel Washington.

[C]

Heard of her.

[A]

He, he actually had a really good quote the other day. They were asked, you know, talking about his life and where he's at, and he said, you know, your career and your life path goes this way. You learn, you earn, and then you return. Yeah, right. And I think that's very simplistic way to put things, but, you know, yeah, we're also, we're in our earning years, really good earning years right now. But I'm also in the phase where I want to return and, and help guys that need it. And I've been doing that for quite a while with Jeremy and soccer and trying to fundraise. We've been successful and, and really end of the day, it boils down to getting guys the treatment they need and well, they are truly saving lives.

[B]

Like I said, I've once, once I started using it, it's, it's a part of my routine now.

[C]

You know, be, be, be.

[B]

Be careful what you. What, what you don't wish for.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

As well. It'll turn from. From a side hustle to. It'll grow into something bigger than you ever expected. And that's. That's actually what. What I expect from that.

[A]

Yeah, we'll see where it goes, man. Like I said, it's fun. My partners are great and we have fun with it and we're actually. It's funny you brought up Gray man earlier because the one we're getting ready to release here next month, we're going to release a third tee that's called Earl Gray Man. And of course we got a really good logo for that one. It's a dude kind of standing on the side of the street, blending in.

[C]

Oh, man.

[B]

Well, have you already settled on. On that? Let me know if you want to use me as one of your.

[A]

We might do that.

[B]

Yeah, we could change the picture. Yeah, man. Will you stick around for the Live tonight?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. So you guys will. You guys already know who. Who Josh Burton is from the Live and you get looking forward to it and watch this.

[D]

It's a different animal.

[B]

Josh. I. I can't wait to hang out with you some more in between now on the Live and. And trade some more stories.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Thanks for having me. This has been fun.

[B]

Real quick. Website, Instagram pages and anything that you can. You can plug for.

[A]

Yeah. Instagram's Elevated Operator. It looks like a little Buddha Operator, dude. And then elevated operator.com. and obviously you guys are carrying it.

[B]

On your FRCC shop. You go to our product page. Go to T. It's right there.

[A]

Yeah, it's good stuff. It's. You know, get rid of the monsters and drink some of the day Ops. It's. You'll find it's a very clean, nice energy throughout the day. And no crash. You can still go to sleep at night. And if you're having problems sleeping. Night Ops.

[B]

Night Ops.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

The old one, two punch, if you will.

[A]

And then the third product we have, it's a mushroom blend tablet, Lion's mane niacin, and a little proprietary blend in there to help your Call it a mood tablet. It's also very good for your brain.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So yeah, that's. That's also on there. The Battle Buddies tablets comes in a cool little tan. It's a. It's a hot item as well.

[C]

Nice. Awesome.

[B]

I'll try those out too. I've seen them on the website.

[A]

I'll leave them with you.

[B]

Yeah, I'll double dose them right before the Live, see if my mood changes.

[C]

It will for sure.

[A]

I can guarantee that.

[B]

No, we have to end every episode with the same. The same final question. Tell me a funny story. Seems more like a demand than a question. Do you have a funny story for us?

[A]

I don't have a funny story, but I got a story that's. It's a little strange. It actually happened last week to me.

[B]

I'll take a strange story, okay.

[A]

And honestly, Brian, you've known me for a long time. I'm really not a funny guy, okay? So I'm horrible with jokes. Ask anybody. But strangely enough, last week I was in Ohio. I only get to see my family about once a year. You know, it's. It's the military thing away. So I go home. I'm going to visit my mom, right? And she's making me dinner, and my sister's coming over with her kids. The place I grew up, man, is a very, very small town south of Cleveland. And the cops there are horrible. That's one of the reasons I left, right? They would pull you over and give you a ticket for doing like, two miles an hour.

[B]

They're all accuse you of stealing trucks. Trucks. They're just. What the.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

This mushrooms.

[A]

So, sure as man, I'm pulling in, I'm driving through the country, and I'm pulling into the edge of the town, very rural area, and there's a cop behind me. And I'm like, having flashbacks from high school. Like, this motherfucker's gonna pull me over just for the of it. Because that's what they do to see if you're drinking or smoking pot or whatever. So I'm looking in the rearview mirror, and next thing I hear is a thump under my tire. I'm driving a rental car, okay, Cadillac, Yeah. And I hear a thump. I'm like, what the was that? And I kind of hit the brakes. Next thing you know, the sirens go on. I'm getting pulled over, okay? And the cop comes out. I pull over the side of the road. We're still out in. Just outside the city limits. In the. In the cop goes, hey, I saw you swerve and hit that cat. I literally chuckle. And I'm like, I. I was actually hoping I knew the cop, maybe somebody I grew up with, right? Because that's the police force now is dudes I went to high school with, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Didn't know this guy. And I chuckled. I'm like, bro, I was looking in the rear view mirror at you, and I heard a thump. I wouldn't swerve it. Trying to hit he's like, man, that's up. He's like, you just ran over somebody's cat. And he goes, look at it. It's got a collar on it.

[B]

Someone's cat's in the road.

[A]

Like, it's a cat.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I like cats, but there's squirrels.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Right. And then there's dogs.

[C]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

And then people.

[B]

Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not swerving to hit them, but I'm not, not gonna cry over.

[A]

So he's arguing with me or I'm arguing back that I didn't swerve to hit the, the cat.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, I don't do that. And he's like, I'll tell you what, he's like, there's a house right there. Go and see if there. It's their cat. I'm not, I'm not going to write you a ticket if you at least go tell them you just ran over their cat.

[D]

Like, for what? Hitting a cat?

[C]

Where's the tick?

[D]

What's the state statue for that?

[A]

I know, man. I'm not going to argue with this.

[C]

Right? Yeah, yeah.

[A]

He's obviously a clown. So I'm like, all right, I'll go see if it was their cat. So I go up and not bang on the door, door, it's the only house around. And this little old lady comes to the door. I go, sorry to bother you, ma'.

[B]

Am. Did you have a cat?

[C]

No, I didn't do that.

[B]

The bell jingling.

[A]

I go to, did you? No, that, that would have been up. Did you have a little black and white cat? And she, her face, her jaw just.

[B]

Dropped and she goes, did you have like past tense?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you have. And she's like, yeah, that's my little Muffy. And I go, ma', am, I'm so she saw the cop sitting out there in my car. And I go, I'm so sorry. I just ran over your cat. It was probably yours, you know, he's down here, you can come and look. She starts bawling and I'm feeling horrible now. It's like this 90 year old lady. And I was like, I didn't know what to do. And I. So I, I reach in my pocket and I pull out 20 bucks and I give it to her. That's the only thing I can think of to do.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

So I gave her 20 bucks. I said, I'm so sorry, ma', am, just go to the shelter and buy a new cat. They're like, 20 bucks.

[B]

She's like, I've had that cat for.

[A]

15 years and I'm just feeling horrible. I give her the money, I walk away, and the cop's down there waiting on me. And he goes, was it her cat? And I said, yeah, bro, it was hers. That she's really upset and I feel horrible. Thank you. And he goes, so what'd you do? He goes, I said, I didn't know what to do, man. I gave her $20. I said, go to the. Go to the pound and buy a new one. You know, whatever. I had to replace her cat. That's the only thing I could think of to do to make it right.

[C]

Right? Yeah.

[A]

He goes, sir, I'm gonna have to ask you to turn around, put your hands on the car. I'm like, what? He's like, I'm gonna have to take you to jail.

[B]

I go, what the for?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

He goes, son, you know you can't sell in Ohio.

[B]

That was pretty quick witted of him.

[A]

Yeah, sorry. My jokes are horrible.

[B]

That was a joke the whole time.

[A]

I'm sorry. That was me.