ICE SHOOTING UPDATES! What We Know So Far (01/26/2026)

Summary

The Antihero Broadcast Episode Summary

Podcast: The Antihero Broadcast
Episode: ICE SHOOTING UPDATES! What We Know So Far
Airdate: January 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the recent ICE-involved shooting in Minneapolis, offering the hosts’ real-time analysis as more footage and facts emerge. The panel—primarily veterans, former law enforcement, and blue-collar voices—breaks down video evidence, debates tactics and training, and explores the cultural and political fallout for ICE, protestors, and the broader law enforcement community.
The show also features a critical live reaction to Rob O’Neill’s appearance on Andy Stumpf’s podcast, dissecting his lawsuit against fellow veterans over defamation, with a detailed look at truth, narrative, and responsibility in the veteran community. Light segments on sports and the moon landing debate round out the episode.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Context and Disclaimer

• Mike (00:30): Emphasizes the panel’s expertise and perspective: "We’re not here to prove anybody innocent, not here to prove anybody guilty. We're here to show you what we see and what we think. And you guys make your own decision. I want to be very clear about that..."
• The hosts stress their experiences inform their takes, but much remains unclear, and they encourage listeners’ independent judgment.

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2. Breakdown of the ICE Shooting Incident

a. Video Analysis & Timeline

• Jimmy (03:14, 04:24): Walks through the newly surfaced “lady in red” angle and initial street footage, calling out the chaos: "This is chaos… these dog piles are bad."
• Multiple camera angles reviewed, focusing on the moment of escalation and the struggle over the weapon.
• Dog pile tactic criticized: poor communication, lack of organization, ineffective, and risky.

b. Training and Tactics

• Jimmy (04:45, 06:03): Points to lack of training among ICE agents: "We have no idea how they're trained… 10 guys on one, five guys on one, six guys in one. It's not effective. It's just too busy. There's too many things going on."
• ICE agents' handling of the gun is scrutinized; panel contends the first shot is an accidental discharge by ICE after taking the suspect’s weapon.

c. Sequence of Events/Escalation

• Suspect arrives armed, legally. What set off the escalation is unclear, but tension and dogpile ensue. The suspect is disarmed by ICE; a discharge follows.
• Jimmy (08:11): "Based on everything that's been presented...there is a gun. Gun is identified. Agent takes gun. Agent accidentally discharges gun, which leads to the other guy smoking him..."
• Majority of shots fired after the suspect is down; hosts debate justification and communication breakdown.

d. Law, Accountability, and Protest

• Differing views on the right to open carry at protests and whether antagonizing law enforcement justifies deadly outcomes.
• Mike (11:08): "You put yourself in a situation...and you antagonize law enforcement on purpose, and then something happens to you. It's like we blame the sharks when someone...bites a person. But we swim in their ocean..."

e. Political, Community, and Policy Fallout

• Panel splits over the proper response to organized protests against ICE.
• Multiple hosts express concern about the cycle of fatal escalations:
  • Jimmy (09:24): "I'm not saying who's right or wrong...just don't know how we can go on with questionable at best [shootings] over and over and over again."
• Lewis (14:02): As a 2A advocate, rejects comments from politicians blaming gun ownership alone: "The rhetoric coming out of ICE and the White House and a lot of Republican lawmakers is so egregiously bad..."

f. Law Enforcement Support for ICE

• Issue raised that local police are not supporting ICE, forcing undertrained agents to play frontline roles.
• Mike (16:36): Suggests incidents might have played out differently with experienced street cops.

g. Systemic Training Gaps

• Lewis (17:41): Reads out a comment: "No amount of multicam can hide a lack of skills or training..."
• Hosts call for tactical changes, better communication, and clearer use-of-force escalation.

Notable Quote

• Jimmy (11:11): "Planned agitation...all wrong. I would bring every ICE agent. I would arrest 3,000 people at once to make a point—you can't continue to organize an effort to stop legal deportation."

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3. Community, Responsibility & Rights

a. Right to Protest While Armed

• Argument over whether being armed at a protest is inherently antagonistic or a constitutional right.
• Jimmy (16:16): "You can protest all day with a gun...I'm damn sure gonna have a gun on me."
• Mike (16:35): Disagrees: "That's why I disagree...a 2A guy is minding his own business...not picking fights with law enforcement."

b. Tactics for Deescalation

• Hosts cite BJJ and jiu-jitsu tactics, suggest pinning hands and breaking contact as alternatives to escalation.
• Multiple references to real-life examples where law enforcement pin or control hands before drawing weapons.

c. Politics, Training, and Local Coordination

• Consensus building that local PD must be involved for ICE actions to be effective and safe.
• Mike (35:23): "Local law enforcement needs to be running the show."
• Lewis (36:23): Cites military/civilian task forces to illustrate need for layered, specialized roles on scene.

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4. The Media, Public Perception & Dangerous Narratives

• Jimmy (40:17): "Talking heads on TV lying about the situation, spinning us a crock..."
• The hosts warn against mainstream and social media sensationalism, calling for nuanced, experience-based, and apolitical coverage.

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5. Rob O’Neill Lawsuit Segment ("The Rob O’Neill Saga")

a. Lawsuit Background

• The hosts play and break down Rob O’Neill’s appearance on Andy Stumpf’s podcast, specifically regarding O’Neill’s defamation lawsuit against Antihero Broadcast hosts and others.
• Rob O’Neill (85:29): "Basically them calling me…a fraud and a liar for two straight years. And they've been making a living off of it…"
• Lewis (88:12): Counters, "None of that is [true]. Rob just defamed you guys on camera."
• Mike (89:43): "State what you think is right…because we all know what Andy thinks is right." [Referring to Andy Stumpf’s silent agreement that the veteran community must police its truths but won’t say it outright]

b. Analysis of O’Neill's Arguments and Tactics

• Roundtable picks apart O’Neill’s argument that the lawsuit is about “defamation,” though from their perspective, it seems rooted in hurt feelings rather than provable harm.
• Jimmy (117:00): Criticizes dragging O’Neill’s children into the lawsuit as witnesses: “So his kids are now witnesses… they’re going to have to say my dad’s not... have to provide date time... he’s drug his kids into a courtroom."
• Panel points to narrative inconsistencies and “over-detailed” responses as classic signs of fabrication under pressure.

c. Notable Quotes & Analysis

• Rob O’Neill (110:06): "This lawsuit is not about proving who killed bin Laden. It's about malicious defamation of character. They don't need to subpoena anyone...just about mean and rude."
• Jimmy (109:17): “I hope they do subpoena them, because I’m telling the truth.”
• Lewis (132:34): "Let’s be clear what he’s saying: He’s saying the best of the best Tier One operators can get on a target and see something they did not see and all agree that this is what we saw. But the truth, according to you, is what’s real.”
• Jimmy (133:30): “These are the top guys in the world, and he’s now saying, hey, those Tier One guys, they can see something and lie or ... not how it happened.”

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6. Recurring Broader Themes

• Coping with Dark Humor:
  The panel makes clear they use first-responder/military humor as a coping mechanism, not to trivialize tragedy, and that this show is their “3am conversation.”
• Media & Narrative Integrity:
  Strongly skeptical of both mainstream and alternative “talking head” coverage—insist experience-based breakdowns are crucial in divisive, rapidly evolving incidents.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

| Time | Quote | Speaker | |-------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------| | 04:46 | "Dog piles are bad... It's not good for communication. It's not good for relaying information. It's just too busy." | Jimmy | | 06:39 | "So there is the guy in the gray...based on everything I have seen, slowed down, recreated with highlights, that is the suspect..." | Jimmy | | 08:11 | "Agent takes gun. Agent accidentally discharges gun, which leads to the other guy smoking him..." | Jimmy | | 11:08 | "You put yourself in a situation...and you antagonize law enforcement on purpose, and then something happens to you. It's like we blame the sharks..." | Mike | | 17:41 | "No amount of multicam can hide a lack of skills or training. And no amount of Gucci gear ... is not going to change the fact..." | Lewis | | 35:23 | "Local law enforcement needs to be running the show." | Mike | | 85:29 (Rob on lawsuit) | "Basically them calling me…a fraud and a liar for two straight years. And they've been making a living off of it…" | Rob O’Neill | | 109:17 | "I hope they do subpoena him, because I'm telling the truth." | Jimmy | | 132:34 | "Let’s be clear what he’s saying: He’s saying ... Tier One operators ... see something they did not see and all agree...But the truth, according to you, is what’s real." | Lewis |

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Time | |---------------------------------------------|-----------| | Disclaimer & intro to ICE shooting | 00:30 | | Review of “lady in red” video & initial analysis | 03:14 | | Technical breakdown: Training, tactics, disarm | 04:24 | | Politics and protest rights | 11:08 | | Training failures & multitasking criticism | 17:41 | | Experiences in law enforcement & protest | 23:00 | | Media narratives & public confusion | 40:17 | | Rob O’Neill Andy Stumpf podcast analysis (lawsuit) | 84:00+ | | Detailed real-time breakdown of O’Neill’s legal and narrative moves | 109:00+ |

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Tone & Style

• Candid, irreverent, dark-humored — True to the “antihero”/veteran first responder brand (“If you want to be offended, probably not your show”).
• Deeply field-experienced, skeptical, and anti-political in the sense of resisting narrative “spins” of all flavors.

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For New Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

This is a rare, unfiltered look at how those with real public safety and veteran experience view a high-profile use-of-force case and the ensuing public, legal, and social reactions. The hosts leverage technical insight, hard cynicism, and behind-the-scenes expertise—unafraid to critique both agitators and law enforcement, politicians, or even their own veteran “heroes.”
The Rob O’Neill lawsuit breakdown is a masterclass in deconstructing reputation management and narrative-building within the veteran influencer world—a growing sector of public commentary post-GWOT (Global War on Terror).

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Host]

On February 13, Crime 101 hits theaters.

[Mike]

What is it that you do?

[Jimmy]

I take high value items and make them disappear. So you're a thief.

[Lewis]

This guy's a ghost.

[Jimmy]

There's no DNA.

[Mike]

He's in and out in seconds.

[Host]

Your guy's untraceable. Chris Hemsworth, Mark Ruffalo, Barry Keoghan and Halle Berry. One crime connects them all.

[Mike]

We're good at this.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Host]

Crime 101. Directed by Bart Layton.

[Jimmy]

Rated R. Under 17. Unmuted without Paris.

[Host]

Only in theaters February 13th.

[Mike]

SA. Team for life. Good morning. It's Monday, January 26, 2026. The antihero broadcast is the news entertainment broadcast for all veterans, first responders in all blue collar Americans. Hell of a show today. We've got ice updates, we've got everything compiled so we know exactly. Well, we don't know exactly what happened, but we have our opinions on what happened better than we had on Saturday. We've got the division playoff games that happened yesterday. We got Sports With Kids Canine to go over that. And of course, Rob o' Neill was on Andy Stump's podcast that dropped this morning. And we will be breaking down the lawsuit portion of it because it's filled with a bunch of nonsense, of course.

[Canine]

So.

[Jimmy]

Turn my headphones up. That was an attempt to do that without. Without doing it.

[Mike]

All right, so we have all the angles from the ice shooting ready to go.

[Jimmy]

Let's be clear, like you said, this is our opinion. This is not fact. This is not. Because we're gonna probably disagree on some things. We might. But this is a anti hero broadcast status update on what was seen. We're not here to prove anybody innocent, not here to prove anybody guilty. We're here to show you what we see and what we think. And you guys make your own decision. I want to be very clear about that because we're not here to say, see it our way or the only way. So that's my two cents. Yeah, I ain't got many cents either.

[Lewis]

So we should read your book if we really want to know.

[Jimmy]

I'm gonna write a book one day.

[Mike]

Let's start off with the first angle that came out on Saturday. Now, there's, if I'm not mistaken, there's three. Or is there four angles?

[Jimmy]

There's several angles.

[Host]

There's.

[Jimmy]

There's some breakdowns I've seen with actually highlighting the hands and the guns and all that. But the very first one was the one that's not it. It's the one from across the street.

[Andy]

Street.

[Jimmy]

That'S the slowed down version of the lady in red. Lady in red.

[Mike]

Well, let's watch that one.

[Jimmy]

Okay, so this is from when you watch the very first video. I'm sure we all seen it. We saw the. They pushing him. The video from across the street that everybody saw where the initial zoom in and all that. Everybody said, I want to see the ladies video from the red coat. She was behind everybody videoing. So this is not the red coats that tried to take over the United States. This is the red coat lady across the street. So let's play that one off to a blazing start.

[Mike]

That's cool.

[Canine]

Y.

[Jimmy]

You're good. You're good. We're off to a blazing start here. There we go. The rape whistles are being screened. Pause it for a second. So your first video you would have seen is across the street. Looking back, you see this lady in a red coat videoing. This is her.

[Mike]

We wanted. We wanted this angle the whole time we were breaking down Saturday is wrong with you?

[Host]

Honestly.

[Mike]

The.

[Jimmy]

Did you just do what the.

[Mike]

All right, so I saw nothing different in that one.

[Jimmy]

No, you and it. That's where, like, you know, all the speculation, all that. So now play that video again. Go back, and I want you to watch Liberal Mike break this down. Go ahead, add it back. I'll tell you when to pause it.

[Host]

Honestly.

[Mike]

All right.

[Jimmy]

Dog pile. Dog pile. Here comes more people. Pause it right about here. I want you to see. This is chaos. This. You've been on the street. You understand what it's like when multiple people are wrestling, taking theirs. And what I said on my show, I did yesterday was go to Jay Wadsworth, EF Combatives, go to Brennan, BJJ cops. I want you to find the seven guy takedown.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

You're not gonna find it.

[Mike]

No.

[Jimmy]

You're gonna find two and three guys effectively taking people into custody, extracting from vehicles. These dog piles are bad. I will. And I will go a step further and say we don't know the training. And you've said it time and time again. These guys aren't locals.

[Lewis]

They're ice.

[Jimmy]

We have no idea how they're trained. We have no idea the tactics. We don't know if they were just brushed through the academy. 10 guys on one, five guys on one, six guys in one. It's not effective. It's not good for communication. It's not good for relaying information. It's just too busy. There's too many things going on. So go ahead, keep going. That's what we have is a dog pile. Back a little bit of glue. Let's go back one more times. I wasn't ready.

[Lewis]

Further.

[Jimmy]

Go back to like when they're dog piled. Keep going, keep going.

[Mike]

Pause.

[Jimmy]

So the guy that turned and is walking away has the gun in his hand.

[Mike]

Okay, so he was disarmed at this point.

[Jimmy]

At this point he's disarmed. The first gunshot you see, based on everything I've seen, is an accidental discharge.

[Mike]

By the agent with his own gun.

[Jimmy]

With the bad guy's gun.

[Mike]

Okay, so from what you've seen, and this isn't officially put out yet, but from what you can see breaking down, that, that is an ICE agent.

[Jimmy]

One million. I'm show it to you on the next video. Okay, so guy comes to a protest, armed, legally. He's there, he's armed, he's doing whatever he's doing. Something happens. Scuffle.

[Mike]

What happens?

[Jimmy]

We don't know. We still don't know exactly. He's obviously agitating. There's a bunch of stuff going on. At some point, a gun is seen in his back because he has a real holsters in his back. And from other angles, you can see the holster and all that. They see the gun, obviously, because he grabs it, he takes the gun, unfortunately, he fires the gun, which I'm going to show you in the next post. That leads to the next chain of events, which is sympathetic firing and gun. If you notice, you never really hurt anybody. Yell gun. You never heard, like we would do, like if we see a gun. I'm trained to go, gun, gun, gun, gun. So go ahead and remove that video and go to the one you played originally.

[Lewis]

Wow.

[Jimmy]

So go to this. Slow down. This is from the donut. This is from back across the street. Don't let it play when it goes. Pause it real quick. So there is the guy in the gray that turns and walks away in his hand. Right. Now, based on everything I have seen, slowed down, recreated with highlights, that is the suspect. When I say suspect, some people are gonna say he's the deceased. Some say he's a victim, the agitator. The man who's deceased, no longer with us. I think his name. Alex Peretta.

[Mike]

I thought already Freddie. Freddie.

[Jimmy]

Jeffrey Pretty Jeffrey Pretty VA nurse, works at the VA clinic.

[Mike]

I'm glad you got his name right.

[Jimmy]

All right, Is it up there? So I thought it was. I've done this like for 30 times. I know his last name. I thought, you know, I said Alex. The UFC fighter, Alex Pereira.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Okay, so this is the agent's gun. I'm Sorry. This is the bad. The guy's gun removed from the agent that we saw in the video play. Go back. You're going to hear the bang and then you're going to hear your. This is where you're.

[Mike]

Do you see anything?

[Jimmy]

You can see the gun kind of.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Recoil. And this is where. And I'm. We caught some hell over it. This is where your Rocky theme song starts. Now you want me to throw the whole twist into it?

[Mike]

Sure.

[Jimmy]

It's a Sig.

[Lewis]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jimmy]

For now. We'll go back to it. So you have a Sig 320, but it's an HG. It's an HG Legion lower. It's a very, very expensive Sig. That one has not had the problems of going off like the standard 320. I'm just a guy. I worked a little bit on the patrol. I did a few things. I'm nobody special, I'm just a moron in the Internet. But what I see when I go to the totality of everything that's been presented, not why he was detained, not if he committed a crime before. Based on just what we've seen so far, dog pile. There is a gun. Gun is identified. Agent takes gun. Agent accidentally discharges gun, which leads to the other guy smoking him. And as you go further, the first two or three shots are like, pretty reasonable. That dude's dead. And you hear like another couple shots like he's stretched out dead. And then you hear a couple more and it's like I understand for science, I understand, like you make a decision to shoot, you make a decision to go ahead and go. And when you break it down, he gets shot point blank in the back by that one agent standing up. Bang, bang, bang, goes flat. And then there's a pause and then there's a couple more banks. I'm not getting into all that. My take on this is we're not going to sustain our country killing somebody every week in this matter.

[Mike]

Now you sound like the mayor. I just like the cheese.

[Jimmy]

I'm just saying good, bad or indifference, something is not going right. I'm not saying who's right or wrong. I'm not saying I'm not. I'm not being. Again, anti ice. I just don't know how we can go on with questionable at best. Over and over and over again.

[Mike]

Lewis, did you check the speed of the Internet when we started? Nope.

[Jimmy]

Doesn't matter.

[Mike]

Lewis, you have a checklist for a reason.

[Jimmy]

We're not going to make it go any faster by doing that.

[Mike]

Well, if it was going slow, we could have done our pre thing. Our. Our pre things. Lewis, what'd you do? You started playing your games before you got your checklist done, correct? Right. Okay, so let's check the speed of the Internet. Why?

[Jimmy]

Are we bad?

[Lewis]

Oh, yeah, we're. We're Minecraft potatoes.

[Mike]

And I really care so much about that. But we can't show videos in detail unless the videos go through. Clear.

[Lewis]

I don't care if the videos come through. Clear.

[Mike]

Okay, then we're checking. Upload as good as always. Or download as good as always. And upload is pretty high normal. So we'll. We'll work through this. It usually typically goes cleaning up. All right, cool. So here's the big issue that I have, and I think a lot of people have. You put yourself in a situation, you go out there, and you antagonize law enforcement on purpose, and then something happens to you. It's like we. We blame the sharks when someone. When a shark bites a person. But we go and we around with sharks and we swim in their ocean, and then we're like, bad shark. Like, you tell the dude, hey, man, might not want to snorkel where the tiger sharks live, but they do it anyways.

[Jimmy]

I agree that the planned agitation signal groups I've been seeing posted with thousands of members to go out. All. All wrong. All wrong. Those people. And here's my take on that. I would go. I'd bring every ICE agent. I would arrest 3, 000 people at once to make a point like, you can't continue to organize an effort to stop legal deportation. You can't. This is why it's so cloudy, is because we don't want. I don't. I don't care what you say. We all go. You go to church on Sunday. We all praise God. We don't want our people dying. I don't root for, like, ice. Got another one here to die. They have to die. But we don't want that.

[Mike]

Well, of course we don't want it, but we also can't allow Minnesota to be the way it is.

[Jimmy]

I agree. I agree. I agree that there has to be something done. So to me, it looks like more, like I've said from the beginning, you have government agents like the chief and the governor and the mayor antagonizing and organizing citizens to go respond. My analogy on this was the other day for yesterday when I said it was. I go armed. I go armed into Publix or the store, the grocery store. I see a fight. I Decide to interject myself into that fight. I see somebody getting the better of somebody. I pull my gun out. Cop comes around the corner and smokes me.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Is he justified? Well, not much information. There's a fight. He sees a guy standing over somebody with a gun.

[Mike]

Yeah, that's hard. I mean, very hard, right? It is hard in that. In that case, because he's protected under. What do we always say? They want to get rid of qualified. He would be protected civilly all day.

[Jimmy]

So let's say I. But who put themselves in that situation to get shot? I could have just walked away. I'm a civilian.

[Lewis]

I can all win fights you don't get into.

[Jimmy]

I said I'm gonna go ahead and interject right now. You'd probably feel more sorry for me when you hear that story, right? You'd be like, damn, Mike died. You know, he was trying to do the right thing. Now Mike goes to the store, and I'm the agitator, and I got a gun. I don't pull it out, but I'm getting in a tussle. You guys maga all that stuff. I get in a tussle. Same scenario. Cop sees a gun on me. I end up getting shot. You're probably like, cops that fall that Mike didn't even pull his gun out.

[Mike]

No, I'm like, mike's an idiot for getting to a fight with a gun.

[Jimmy]

There you go. There you go. But in the same scenario, I'm there doing. I'm a citizen. I can go either way. I can go to agitate. I can. Can go to not agitate the fact I have a gun. Yeah, I get it. Don't. The easy answer is, I wouldn't want to get in a fight with a federal agent knowing I got a gun in my back. Did he? We don't know. We don't know why they detained him. I know he's yelling. He's got the phone. The gun was seen early on. The gun was removed. I'm not saying ICE is at fault. I'm not saying he's at fault. I'm just saying it's a ugly situation. Dogpile, lack of communication, an accidental discharge.

[Mike]

Crazy.

[Lewis]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Mike]

Just put it all on SIG dude. Put the whole thing on SIG dude.

[Lewis]

I mean, what's worse about this, though, is. Is to me, is I'm a. I'm a 2A guy. The. The rhetoric coming out of ice and the white House and a lot of Republican lawmakers is so egregiously bad on.

[Host]

Yeah, he should.

[Lewis]

You know, you're carrying a gun in public. You, you're. It's like, what the are you talking about, bro?

[Jimmy]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's. It's, it's, it's.

[Mike]

But you. Here's the thing, Jimmy, is you can't. You can carry a gun around in public the way you're meant to for your protection. You're not. You can, yeah, you can carry a gun and go piss off the police.

[Lewis]

I, I'm not saying so.

[Mike]

He's not to me. He's not a two way guy. A two way guy is minding his own business, going to the store could bring his home to his family and trying to live the American.

[Jimmy]

I can be a 2A guy. I'd still disagree.

[Mike]

But you can't pick fights with law enforcement.

[Jimmy]

We don't know what he did.

[Mike]

That's a good point.

[Jimmy]

We have to stop because we don't know. Did he yell, did he agitate? What did he do? Even so, if I have a gun and I'm. I'm a 2A and I see a cop that's a liberal cop shows up, one of our enemies, right, where we don't like liberal people, and a liberal cop shows up, okay, call me liberal Mike. A liberal cop shows up and my buddy's standing there with American flag on the corner, and he starts going, get out of here with that American flag. You're out of here. And I'm like, you, dude, we're American. I got my gun, I'm an American. And I get in a scuffle with the cops. You're gonna go, oh, oh, Mike's wrong for getting in.

[Mike]

No, but that's not.

[Jimmy]

Mike's wrong for standing up for him.

[Mike]

In the most heated arena in, in modern time right now, Minneapolis, Minnesota. You really think that it's a good idea to go out there and film ICE doing that when they've had time and time, time and time again, made maybe bad choices in their way of detaining people and killing them?

[Jimmy]

So, I mean, you know, during the heated time of co, I guess we all should just lay down and like we did and take it.

[Mike]

But CO is, Is what ICE is doing wrong.

[Jimmy]

No, enforcing is the First Amendment wrong.

[Mike]

That's. I can't.

[Jimmy]

The First Amendment wrong.

[Mike]

That's.

[Jimmy]

I can't protest the government. Wrong.

[Lewis]

I don't. I. You can protest the government all day.

[Mike]

Long, but you cannot intervene and interfere.

[Jimmy]

We don't know. But we don't know that what. That version.

[Mike]

That's the that looks pretty obvious that it was law enforcement doing their job.

[Jimmy]

Correct. But we don't have any context about why law enforcement decided to detain him yet and then take it out of it. I'm still. I still disagree. You can protest all day with a gun. If I go amongst a bunch of anti American and I'm going to carry a flag around like at these no Kings rallies like Jay did, I'm damn sure gonna have a gun on me. I'm not gonna go in this crowd of people.

[Mike]

That's why I disagree.

[Jimmy]

Okay.

[Mike]

I disagree with you in the sense doesn't like guns. The Even the quality YouTube disagrees with you. Why we're bad again Y But I don't know. Conservative chocolate says the issue is local PD doesn't support ice. This doesn't happen in Florida. So they're forced to go ham. They are. They're forcing. They're forcing these ICE agents to go hands on without the training that they need to have. I don't. I. I don't think that shooting would have happened with street cops. I think. Here's what I think would happen if the street cops it the disarming. You work with those guys all the time. I got a gun. I have the gun. You remove yourself some of the situation. Does he get a ass whooping? Maybe. But he didn't communicate the fact that he just had that gun.

[Jimmy]

No, he fired instead.

[Lewis]

So I mean so I would let.

[Jimmy]

You guys know he had the gun. Yeah, it worked out.

[Lewis]

Apex Training Concepts. That's our. That's our bro over there.

[Jimmy]

Every post of the story.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Lewis]

My personal favorite is no amount of multicam can hide.

[Jimmy]

I reposted it this morning.

[Lewis]

Yeah. No amount of multicam can hide a lack of skills or training. And no amount of Gucci gear, cool guy plate carriers, all that that stuff you guys like to take pictures in looking like operators. It's not going to change the fact that what we look at up there is just what Mike said. There is no seven man take down like that was a complete lack of training. And I mean well we basic weapons.

[Jimmy]

Hooker off the trigger over and over and over. That's what I've been saying all along is it's obvious that these guys aren't trained and they're not used to dealing with this and shoving people back pepper spraying people. That's all easy. That's fun and games. I get it. You guys want to spray everybody now. But when you have to go hands on and actually arrest somebody there has to be some Training on how what? Or encountering a gun. Like what?

[Mike]

I think it goes, you've been involved. Gun.

[Host]

Gun.

[Jimmy]

You aren't swat. What's the. You see a gun, you yell. You make it known to everybody. Gun, gun, gun, gun.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Don't touch the gun.

[Mike]

To be honest with you. To be honest with you, this would be a way better shoot if they were to have backed off. Everybody. And then he went and reached for it. Yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy]

Don't go reaching.

[Mike]

And sometimes I'm. I. I mean, I. Me, personally, I don't know if I've ever. I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I was tussling with somebody and I saw a gun, but I would think that I would break contact and, you know, be like, don't reach for it. And then. Then it's a clean shoot all day.

[Jimmy]

You have two. You have two options. And that's where I go back to BJJ cops and.

[Mike]

And.

[Jimmy]

And Jay Wadsworth. You pin the hands and like the guy that. The cool video we have of the trooper that wrestles the black guy on the side of the car and ends.

[Lewis]

Up shooting him point blank.

[Jimmy]

Yeah. He's pinning his arm. He's using jiu jitsu. He's getting. When he realizes this guy's about to get that gun. Draw and kill.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Good.

[Mike]

It doesn't always work out that.

[Jimmy]

No, no, it doesn't. So breaking contact is one thing. Or staying on him to. Not. The guns in his back, the small of his back. They see it. The biggest problem I have is the agent taking it. Doesn't say disarmed. I have the gun. Gun. Like, what is his emergency to grab it and take off running across the street. I get getting rid of it, but it's just like, draw. If I see drugs on the ground, it's like, well, it's drugs.

[Mike]

Kill you.

[Jimmy]

Okay. I see a gun on the ground. I put you at gunpoint, right. I get you on the ground. I'm like, tyler, get on the ground. I see your gun. Jimmy grabs your gun and takes off running out the front door. I'm gonna get it far away.

[Mike]

You're surrounded by agitators.

[Jimmy]

You can't just leave the gun. No, no, that's. No, you pick it up. Stand there surrounded by agents beating the.

[Mike]

What's the issue with him standing there.

[Jimmy]

Excitedly grabbing that gun and going to run away? Fires the gun in that process.

[Mike]

He was too hyped up.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, just grab the gun. Be like, look, I got it.

[Lewis]

Those guys have Dump pouches on their equipment, which, by the way, Flatline Fiber co makes some good ones. But you got a dump pouch on there? Take that thing and stick it in the dump pouc.

[Jimmy]

Anything? I. Dude, I went to a murder suicide once where a guy killed his wife and then killed himself. The first thing the responding officer did was pry the gun out of the dude's hands, go down the hallway and put it in a drawer.

[Lewis]

That's different.

[Jimmy]

The gun can't go up by itself. Is where I'm going with.

[Lewis]

Unless it's a sig.

[Jimmy]

Okay. The gun, you point it in a safe direction, then. So you pick the gun up, finger off the trigger. I have the gun. I have the gun.

[Lewis]

Done.

[Jimmy]

I have it.

[Mike]

Damn.

[Lewis]

That's a question we actually don't know is do they know that they were tussling with an armed individual?

[Jimmy]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure. If you watch those videos back, you can see the holsters sticking out.

[Lewis]

Which, by the way, terrible place to put your gun.

[Mike]

Yeah, I'll get ahead of it. The. Where there's one, there's two. No, hold on. I don't believe that pertains to this because that's more for a vehicle or structure. On one's person, the likely that they're carrying two guns is very, very low to the point where I wouldn't let it alter my training.

[Jimmy]

Still good. Glad it's in your head, though. It should be plus one. So what do you do? You removed one gun. Everybody backs up.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Eight guns on them, like, pointing at them. You move, I'm gonna kill you. I'm go. I'm okay with hearing that out there. You move, you had a gun on.

[Lewis]

You move again, I'll put you in the back.

[Jimmy]

Yeah. Don't. Yeah, stop or I'll shoot you in the back. Yeah.

[Lewis]

Saying Jerry worms.

[Mike]

But here. Here's the thing. It's like I'm gonna argue the fact that none of these are pretty because, yeah, eight dudes pointing a gun at somebody, then what are we going to run into? We're gonna run into clear communication. There's nothing that horrifies me more than having eight guns pointed at me and not being able to tell someone. I'm not gonna resist. I'm not. Because I'm getting different. Someone tells you to move, someone tells you to don't move. Yeah.

[Andy]

What do you do?

[Lewis]

Video too.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Lewis]

Where two officers are looking at the same guy and guys are giving different commands.

[Jimmy]

I don't know what to do. So why. That's why we went to all this, you know, I.C. somebody establishes I.C. you know all that from squad? I'm the commander. I have hands and commands. You guys perform one person, but that. What you're seeing is lack of even basic communication training. Who the is in charge in that scrum? Who's the one going, all right, I'm gonna direct this. We're gonna, we're just, we're hitting them with cans of spray. We're pointing guns at him, we're pulling guns off.

[Mike]

I really wish we knew what, why they detained him. Do they have to have a reason? If they're in, if they're in a riot zone and they have a. If they're like, hey, I deem you an agitator, are they allowed to detain them?

[Jimmy]

I don't have a problem with that. Yeah, I don't have a problem with that.

[Mike]

So really what it boils down to is the lack of training that they have. And you're not going to be able to train up 3, 000 ICE agents and combatives in a reasonable amount of time.

[Jimmy]

Felony stops.

[Mike]

So what, what you have to do is you have to get the local PD back.

[Lewis]

Can I, Can I read what Jerry said in the comments? Yeah, sure. He said if one of the ICE officers during that scuffle yelled out gun, that would have sent the rest of the group into panic.

[Jimmy]

That's, that's, that's. I, I disagree because that's what we're supposed to do. That is what you're supposed to do. You don't go, man, me, Jimmy and Tyler fight.

[Mike]

It is definitely better. Got a gun.

[Jimmy]

But I'm not going to tell those guys.

[Mike]

Definitely better than knowing the bad guy has a gun, right? So at face value, every single ICE agent there, all 27 of them, dog piling on this guy, they know he's armed. At some point, they all go, oh, now whether or not one of them, they were saying like, hey, gun, gun, gun. We can't hear that part. We'll never know that. Right? But I would, I would be surprised if the majority of those ICE agents didn't know that that guy had a gun. Now, if I remove.

[Lewis]

They certainly were acting like he.

[Mike]

If I remove that gun. But none of the other ICE agents know that I removed that gun. And then I hear a shot.

[Jimmy]

Oh, yeah, that's my entire point.

[Lewis]

So, I mean, we, we, we trained that in at Department of State where you're online, everybody's looking at a target, and you're basically just doing what you're supposed to do. Pull security. And then one of the instructors comes up to one guy and whispers in his ear, you know, hostile intent, you know, so he's firing at you. He. One guy fires, everybody else fired. And he goes, hey, why did you guys shoot? Well, we heard our buddy shoot. Okay, well, that's. That's not okay all the time.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Lewis]

And Jerry just said, he goes, the supervisors of the ICE officers need to reassess their tactics on how they go about deciding who they're going to arrest.

[Jimmy]

It's like me, cut, me and you clearing this building. I come to that door, I see an armed guy, and I don't tell you he's armed, and we're getting ready to make entry. Or I. Or I see him put the gun down. And then we turn the corner and you're like, oh, he's got a gun right there. Yeah, so I'll put it down. That would be good information for you to know, like, he had a gun and he cooperated enough to put it down. Don't worry, I got him. Just versus me, just going, hey, Tyler, figure you. I saw it, but I'm not going to tell you what I saw. Come on in. Yeah, so when you grab a gun, it's. To me, it's very important to relay that point.

[Lewis]

Like, we live in Florida. Like, I've been pulled over before and by sheriffs, and they. They were like, hey, you got a.

[Canine]

Gun on the car?

[Lewis]

Yeah, man, it's right over there. Okay. Don't reach for it. They're so used to seeing it. It's not a big deal. I mean, I'm sure it is a big deal on some level, but it's like, hey, we. I. I've already kind of assessed what this guy is and what he's doing, so, I mean, these guys probably don't have that kind of experience to be dealing with somebody who is armed in the first place. They're not used to seeing it. I mean, how many people did you pull over? No, you didn't pull anybody over. You. You told me you didn't like pulling people over.

[Mike]

What the.

[Jimmy]

He said you're a parking lot.

[Mike]

Out of nine years, I did eight of them. Proactive.

[Jimmy]

This over here is talking. That wasn't meant to be a shot.

[Lewis]

But, I mean, it is funny.

[Jimmy]

I never once put a public records requested for you.

[Mike]

You could do all my traffic stops, baby.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Tons of dope, drugs, warrants.

[Lewis]

I mean, so like, speeding tickets is what I mean.

[Mike]

I didn't write speeding tickets.

[Lewis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike]

So it's okay, Your civilian brain.

[Lewis]

Hey, I mean, it's fair. Never been a cop.

[Jimmy]

Drill Bill right there. Bring that one up. Drill bill, that 11. Drill bill. Comment? No, no, no, no, no. It was the comment. Up, up, up.

[Lewis]

Hey, man, I'm only running on water now.

[Jimmy]

So this good. This is accurate in the angle in the pin coat, which we watch. The agent fishes the gun out of the dude's waistband, and the other agent, which ends up being the one that fires, pulls his gun all at once. So it's happening all at once. That part is like, bang, bang. He sees the gun coming out. You can see that guy pull the gun out. Booger, finger on the trigger, bang. And then he's the one that shoots him. Bang, bang, bang. So that's kind of. I mean, that's what happened. That's what happened in my mind.

[Mike]

Oh, you got the drill bit comment.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, we pulled it up.

[Mike]

Do you guys think okay? Yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy]

So that's what happened. And then there was response to that noise. Noise input. And it led to bang, bang, bang. And then it leads to a couple more bangs later on, which, I mean.

[Canine]

Yeah.

[Mike]

And CC says government employee protest. And government is wild. I mean, that to me is. We joke like I'm the anti government government club. Like, I work for the government, but I'm not. I always for the.

[Lewis]

I'm Ron Swanson.

[Mike]

Yeah. Like I always said, like, we're social contract theory enforcers. That's how I justify it. We work for the people, not for the government. But this show is brought to you about human performance. Let's see it, Lewis. Boom, boom. Go to hp-trt.com use promo code HERO, save 20 on your testosterone every single month. GLP2s, peptides, testosterone. Now they got Anavar and Deca. Low dosage will really help. Put on that muscle size and your dick will still work. Trust me. I do. So go to hp trt.com use promo code HERO. Save 20.

[Lewis]

Dude, that's awesome.

[Mike]

You don't want that decade, dude.

[Lewis]

Dude, no.

[Jimmy]

He'll know.

[Mike]

So. All right, well, what we do have is I have some opinions from some other people if you want to bring up this screenshots list.

[Jimmy]

I was asking a lot.

[Mike]

I know. No, no, it's those two right there. Pull up one of them.

[Jimmy]

All right, beautiful.

[Mike]

So this one is from. Oh, Matt Kubler. Matt Kubler is kind of an activist. He's been on Anti Hero a couple times. Very outspoken. Definitely got like Asperger's or something, but. But I'm very pro2a with that being said, responsible gun ownership is also important. I would never carry a firearm while drinking at a bar because that would be irresponsible and could put me and others at risk due to my altered mental state when intoxicated. Carrying a concealed weapon into an already volatile. Volatile and anarchist situation and interfering with police is also very irresponsible and clearly put himself and police at risk. Is that not a valid argument?

[Jimmy]

It's not.

[Mike]

It is a very.

[Jimmy]

I'm gonna kill it with one. One name. Kyle Rittinghouse.

[Mike]

Well, you got the name wrong. It's called Rittenhouse.

[Jimmy]

He shouldn't have brought the gun to protest.

[Mike]

Look what he went through.

[Jimmy]

But everybody loves him. Oh, everybody.

[Mike]

Dude, I would say, first of all.

[Jimmy]

The right loves him.

[Mike]

The right.

[Jimmy]

I can prove it with a meme I made about him. That's got 12, 000 shares.

[Lewis]

There's a very big difference between showing up to protect property and staying out of the frack.

[Jimmy]

Based on what he says.

[Lewis]

And based on what he says.

[Jimmy]

Okay.

[Lewis]

And agitating against law enforcement.

[Jimmy]

I haven't seen the guy.

[Lewis]

Now, look, I got no if open carry. I mean, first of all, I think carry should be legal everywhere because it goes to our two. But if open carry is legal, there should be no problems with us open carrying while we protest. If it's smart.

[Mike]

Not particular.

[Jimmy]

The nurse was. Open carrying would have been better.

[Lewis]

Would it have been. I think it. I think it actually might have in.

[Mike]

This case, and I'll tell you why I don't.

[Lewis]

Hey, put that down. You're detained.

[Mike]

Put it down. Well, then you have to go take it out of the holster.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, we don't do that.

[Mike]

Yeah, hold on. Let me put it down real quick.

[Jimmy]

No, it's. Hands up.

[Lewis]

Okay.

[Jimmy]

Don't move that down. Reach for the gun, I'll kill you.

[Mike]

What?

[Lewis]

We're talking about open carry.

[Jimmy]

Yes.

[Lewis]

Right. So if he's. I'm thinking. I'm thinking Kyle Rittenhouse. He's holding an AR258.

[Mike]

Thanks for joining, bro. Keep going.

[Lewis]

So if. Okay, let's. Oh, so he's got it in a holster. It's open carrying.

[Mike]

Hey. You're detained.

[Lewis]

Put your hands up. Turn around. Don't touch that guy. Don't go anywhere near it. One guy speaks everybody else.

[Mike]

Yeah, ideally, yeah.

[Jimmy]

What are you saying? Reach for this guy?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Woody. Or Woody from this one ain't big.

[Lewis]

Enough for the two of them.

[Jimmy]

For the sky. That's what you tell them when they have a gun on them.

[Mike]

Another one from Dan Crenshaw and I just grabbed these, I saw these people voicing their opinion. I thought it was very brave of them.

[Jimmy]

Doesn't look like Dan.

[Mike]

No, that's not Dan. Dan's commenting on a reel that he shared.

[Lewis]

That's, that's some liberal.

[Mike]

Yeah. CNN guy. But Dan Crenshaw says from a tactical, self defense perspective, the moment I realize a person has a weapon, I am immediately escalating my response. Even if it's true that law enforcement took his weapon, the man continued to resist. And it is unknown to law enforcement whether or not he has additional weapons. Don't bring a gun to a fight.

[Jimmy]

Nope.

[Mike]

With ICE agents.

[Lewis]

Nope.

[Mike]

I love, I love how he's standing. I, I respect his stance, people. Nobody's holding back on picking a side anymore.

[Lewis]

That's great. First of all, that's great. And you know, there are some things that, you know, Dan says that I, I can agree with, but like, I'm sorry, dude. Like, if you are going to, if you, I mean, first of all, what do we talk about when we talk about murder? Right? You have to have, you know, first grade. You got to have intent and premeditation. Right. So you went knowing you were going to get into a altercation with Ice Verbal, whatever you went on, I feel.

[Mike]

Like it's a fight for Jimmy right now.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Me and you are both fighting and Jimmy's like.

[Lewis]

Dude, last night I was, I was, I was on my own.

[Mike]

I was, oh, the real Josh Best. 5, 3, 8, 6. Thank you for joining, brother.

[Jimmy]

I, I, I agree to a point with what you guys are saying, but you can't just chalk it up to.

[Mike]

Our video quality always doesn't suck this bad. By the way. The OGs in the chat will tell you this is just a random fluke, but we're gonna work through it.

[Lewis]

It's, I'm blaming it on the ice storms. It's the ice storms.

[Jimmy]

Ice, ice is responsible for everything. You just, you just, you can't chalk every shooting up to, you shouldn't, you shouldn't have came with a gun. I understand that. How many more? 10, 15? 20 more deaths. Like, ah, that one's questionable again. But we're gonna argue about it on, we're getting ratings, we're gonna get views. But we have Americans dying. That is my biggest point is we are.

[Host]

We are.

[Mike]

God, we have Americans dying every day. Chicago. Why doesn't anybody care about that?

[Jimmy]

They do care about that.

[Mike]

No, they don't. Not enough. Not enough.

[Jimmy]

Oh, they do.

[Mike]

They do.

[Jimmy]

People care about that. People use that statistic all the time in their argument that it's society's fault.

[Host]

It's.

[Mike]

It's.

[Jimmy]

It's the hood's fault because they're killing each other.

[Mike]

Okay, great.

[Jimmy]

It's not on tv. This becomes a political disaster.

[Mike]

And now it's important, Mike.

[Jimmy]

Right, because two sides, Americans, are dying. One side says that. And what's the other side saying?

[Mike]

Kill them all.

[Jimmy]

This doesn't, like, guys, kill them all.

[Mike]

You can't have both sides.

[Jimmy]

It's too extreme. Both sides.

[Mike]

I don't really think anybody's saying I should kill them all. I think I could pull up 40.

[Jimmy]

Tweets that are like, fucking kill them all.

[Mike]

Oh, I didn't see that.

[Lewis]

Yeah, see that? That's. That's.

[Mike]

That's bad.

[Lewis]

Yeah. So remember, we. You've created a perfect storm where people are saying, we're going to kill them.

[Mike]

They're.

[Lewis]

They're brandishing their.22 AR pistols in front of the camera, which, by the way, is hilarious to me. And like, hey, we're gonna have a gunfight with you guys. It's over. It's done. And so now here we are. We're ICE agents. We. We have minimal training, but lots of multicam, and we're gonna go deal with this armed protester. And all I hear is a bang. Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Cold's joking. But if it's brown, it's down. If you reach. I teach. Like, those are. That's once what people are serious about that. That's not a joke. Like, there are people sitting at home going, him, him. He shouldn't have showed up that day.

[Mike]

That's me. I'm not saying he should have died, but do you think I care about Pretty Jeffrey Pretty? At least I know his name.

[Jimmy]

We have to care, though.

[Mike]

Why?

[Jimmy]

Because we can't.

[Mike]

If Jimmy's run. Goes out the door and starts running in traffic and we're like, jimmy, stop running in traffic. I can only care so much about.

[Jimmy]

Should have stopped her from drinking.

[Lewis]

Hey, Jimmy's on the water these days.

[Mike]

I'm gonna say, Jimmy, you know what? I. It sucks. It sucked. But I. I don't feel that anymore. As if Jimmy was just standing on the side of the road and got cream.

[Jimmy]

You didn't take. You didn't take an oath to protect Jimmy. Jimmy's on his own to run out the door. When you take an oath to protect the citizens, as an agent, you have to protect the city.

[Mike]

I do that. They're fighting me.

[Lewis]

All of these things can't just kill them. They could all be true at the same time. Everything what you guys are saying can. They can both be true.

[Jimmy]

I agree.

[Lewis]

Shouldn't have showed up to fight ICE with a gun. And those ICE agents should have had some better training and better tactics.

[Jimmy]

I think that's the truth.

[Lewis]

We're gonna argue.

[Jimmy]

But that the bottom line is. And somewhere in the middle is the right answer.

[Mike]

Yeah, but like I said, you cannot. Well, I know the right answer. The right answer is politics needs to stay out of it. Yeah. Local PD needs to be working hand in hand with ice. You cannot train up ICE on combatives in a reasonable amount of time to continue this operation. It's not. Not possible. Therefore local law enforcement and state law enforcement has to be working hand in hand with ICE needs to be doing him, him, him this investigation that 2/3 of them need to go back home. And local law enforcement needs to be running the show. Right.

[Lewis]

They need to be the rangers for the Delta Force.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Lewis]

Do it. Outer court on. Here's what we're going to do. Our operation, it's done. It's over.

[Mike]

And life can be doing things like setting up mobile. Mobile. Here's the things you have to provide logistics. Right. So a mobile or a temporary detention center. Right. That needs to be built in fast. Because Mike is right. We need to go through and spend one day sweeping up a bunch of almost people that easy targets that aren't going to put up a fight. And you start roping in hundreds and hundreds of people a day that are detained on some kind of weird federal law that we can just hold them until we're done with them. As much as that sucks. That would clean up a lot of the streets. To be able to do their job and ICE needs to have a. This is what we want to do. Because if you look at what they're asking ice. The only answers I've ever seen are we're here till the job's done. What does that mean? Yeah, that's like giving the emperor power. And then I'm going to give it back. Senator Palpatine. Yeah. I'll give the power back once I've done what I need to do.

[Lewis]

Justin's gonna love that in the chat. But I mean dude, these guys, these guys, I mean like you could create. I mean you were. Mike, I know was on a task force. You guys are on task force, right?

[Mike]

I wasn't.

[Lewis]

Okay, so you got a task force. Hey, you're gonna be the task force to ice. Okay. You're on the federal task force. Cool. Hey, here's your job. Outer cordon, crowd control, whatever the you guys call it. I don't know what cops call it, but once that's done, it's like, hey, we're going to do this hit. We're graveling these people up and we're leaving. We're, we're, it's a raid, we're going in, we're doing certain things and we're out.

[Jimmy]

You learn this and you know it. You learn this in the hood, dude. You learn these crowd control techniques by doing it. We how many times you've been on search warrant where the whole hood shows up and you're the screaming.

[Mike]

The new guy is always the one that loses the. And everybody makes fun of him like there's nothing you can do screen, you're rookie, but you're get the back, I'll you up. And everyone's like, no you ain't dog. Both your, your colleagues and them are.

[Jimmy]

Saying you can't do to me. So. But you learn those tactics by working the street, having real life experience. I feel bad for these agents that are going in. Their fifty thousand dollar bonus getting put right on the street, have no real training experience, never been in the hood on a warrant. A big crowd, they're already, what are they, college kids?

[Mike]

They get to dude, my first day in the hood. My first day in the hood, I, I left one agency to another one to go work the hood to get real cop experience. And my first day in fto, I remember I told this hood rat chick, I was like get the back or I will put you back. And she goes, the just start screaming at me. And I look at my FTO is just laughing.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, you get a fighter, you have to learn that like back and forth. And, and what we're seeing to me is not I am the government, listen to me. Although that is the law doesn't quite work because you're seeing it not really work. So you either go get everybody out of the way and continue operation or you pull back and go okay, this doesn't seem to be working. What is next? And is it untrained? And I'm not saying they're untrained. I don't know anybody on the scene. It appears to be based on dog piles and what I'm seeing untrained or not ready agents. Like I would look at that video if I was DHS and ice and I would go, all right, let's bring this in. We have to like, let's recreate this and say all right, we don't need six guys hitting a guy with a can of spray. Let's get two guys watching the crowd. Let's form a circle. Kind of like we're doing riot control. He's got a gun. Yeah, let's yell gun. Let's get him down. Let's prone them. Like, let's do some shields. Where the is his shield? Anybody got a shield, like ready? You can walk around. Just have one ready. The guy's got a gun. You smush him with the shield. There's so many tactics we learned in swat. You run into a guy, you see a guy with a good. You mush them with the shield, you push them down. There's so many other things but the dog pile, hitting them with pepper spray, screaming and yelling and unorganization is not working. I'm not saying that ice is doing the wrong thing.

[Host]

I'm not saying.

[Jimmy]

Taking aside. It just doesn't seem to be working. We need to do something.

[Mike]

You don't think ice in the streets is the answer.

[Jimmy]

I do. I just more organized and better trained. That's my. That's my personal opinion.

[Lewis]

You know, here's because you have to put like.

[Mike]

Are you going to train that many ice ages?

[Jimmy]

Okay, let's slow down it down for a second. Let's, let's. New York loses 5, 000 cops tomorrow. We're just gonna go, hey, these next 5, 000 dudes that walk through the door, they're going on the street. It does. So like, we've. I think they've admitted that most of the high profile targets have been apprehended.

[Lewis]

That's correct.

[Jimmy]

Okay, so cousin Julio down at this corner store that's here illegally, that's selling, you know, making tacos in the stand. He could probably wait. You could probably give him a little bit of a time to like catch up on the training. They supposedly went out, wrangled up all the gang members, all the high profile targets. They went crazy. They got all these people. The dude at Home Depot walking out with the 2x4 can probably wait a couple more days, a week, a month, till we get some better training dealing with the crowds. That's liberal Mike's opinion.

[Mike]

Air and Hall 6354. Thanks for joining, brother. And we've got another super chat from drill bit. How about the talking heads on tv lying about the situation, spinning us a crock of they're there to seemingly so division.

[Jimmy]

I agree. I agree on that's.

[Lewis]

That's the only reason you would come here. Even when we're Minecraft characters is because we don't have any interest in spinning it one way or the other.

[Mike]

This is through our eyes, through our experience. All right, so pull up the article that I sent Lewis. It's a link. I think he's got it. I can tell you right now, he don't got Instagram pulled up. That's all right.

[Lewis]

While we're doing that, I. I have a question.

[Jimmy]

I mean, running a video. We're supposed to be running the video.

[Mike]

No, it's a link. It's just a.

[Jimmy]

Okay, it's playing. Go ahead.

[Lewis]

Okay. So I mean, basically what we have happening now is ICE is going into the Bacara market and in the middle of broad daylight to do these operations. Did anybody talk about maybe doing them at night?

[Jimmy]

There's all kinds of things. That's what I'm getting at.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Like, and we know we've already proven that they're using technology to track everybody's phones.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Get them at 1am you get them.

[Lewis]

Get them at 2 o' clock in the morning in their house.

[Jimmy]

It's just. And that. That's a great point because what have you seen SWAT do? What did SWAT used to do? 1am, 3am and what was being said? Yeah, I thought, somebody's breaking in my house.

[Lewis]

So I shot.

[Jimmy]

They started right when the kids go to school. The kids leave the house for school all the time. Our SWAT ops were, little Johnny walks to the bus stop. Little Johnny call the school.

[Mike]

Little Johnny's at school, girlfriend's at work.

[Jimmy]

Bang, bang, bang, off we go. So we adjusted even those high risk drug search warrants to go. Let's change things a little bit. Once again, I'm not saying ICE needs to stop what they're doing.

[Lewis]

Let's just get it figured out a little bit.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Lewis]

Can we just have a conversation about tactics?

[Mike]

Yeah. So you don't need to pull it up, Lewis, because I think the font's going to be way too small in there. But CBS News reports two federal hearings Monday after Border Patrol kills Alex Preddy. Oh, his name is Alex.

[Lewis]

Oh, sorry.

[Jimmy]

You can apologize. Ask him to apologize to me.

[Lewis]

Hey, go ahead.

[Mike]

I thought it was Jeffrey.

[Lewis]

Yeah, it's. It's Alex.

[Jimmy]

Yeah. Micro.

[Mike]

Right. Trump sending Tom Homan to Minnesota.

[Jimmy]

Who the.

[Mike]

That.

[Lewis]

He's the. He's the guy in charge of deal.

[Jimmy]

And he was in charge under Obama.

[Lewis]

He was too. And he got the Presidential Freedom Medal.

[Jimmy]

Now he's a racist.

[Mike]

So federal judges will hear two separate cases on Monday related to the ongoing surge of immigration Blah, blah, blah. Monday morning, Pretty is ICU nurse who worked in the Minneapolis VA house. Also to put to rest rumors that he was. He traveled there to protest. He did not. No, that I saw that everywhere.

[Jimmy]

Taking care of veterans every day.

[Mike]

Oh, shut up. You even said it. Dramatic veterans.

[Jimmy]

It was. He's a competitor that's helping you guys out.

[Lewis]

I. I would like. He'll talk to some guys that have to go to that.

[Mike]

You know what? One of those ICE agents probably is trying to get to 100 and pretty said no.

[Lewis]

There goes my tinnitus.

[Host]

It's all over.

[Jimmy]

No. Now they all got PTSD. That's in 75 rating right there.

[Lewis]

Yeah, but you can't do PTSD and what do you call it? The TBI's easier.

[Mike]

U. S. District Court Judge Eric Toast Rud. God, these names. We were granted a temporary restraining order against the U. S. Department of homeland security over the weekend, barring the department from altering or destroying evidence connected to the killing of Alex Preddy in South Minneapolis.

[Jimmy]

Somebody's got a point there. Our faces are made for Minecraft. That's why we're trying to go to radio.

[Mike]

Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's interesting that they think that they're going to tell the federal government don't do.

[Lewis]

Do something.

[Mike]

I mean, I don't know. A supreme court judge. That too. I think they said it was. Maybe they do have that power at.

[Lewis]

At some point, though, if, if federal law. I said this the other day. If we can't enforce the federal law on immigration, I can go buy a machine gun or so.

[Jimmy]

Yeah. Or a can.

[Lewis]

Yeah. Like I, I, I can have. I can have a rocket launcher. Because if, where do you draw the line? Yeah, if, if the federal government, because that's who enforces that, though I agree. So that means atf, you're next on the job.

[Jimmy]

That's why it's tough. It's so tough for me because I agree with the law. You have to come here legally.

[Mike]

I agree.

[Jimmy]

And we let it get so far. And then the conspiracy, you know, kicks in. Why we're hiding stuff, you know. You know, the moon landing, all that stuff is a distraction. Distractionary blow from what's really going on. The Epstein files won't be released. Like we're gonna go to war with.

[Lewis]

Greenland and, and Iran all at once.

[Jimmy]

Actually, Greenland already launched their attack. Yeah, it's three degrees up there. Everywhere. Greenland said. All right, you want to play with us? We got you.

[Mike]

So did you guys see that the national guard has been deployed To Minneapolis, but it's a little confusing on what they're doing.

[Lewis]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's. I've seen a few LMTs.

[Jimmy]

Walt brought the National Guard.

[Mike]

Yeah, can you pull up Instagram?

[Lewis]

Lewis, I saw a few lmt.

[Mike]

I even gave you a layup and said, I don't think Lewis has got it up.

[Jimmy]

He didn't think of that. He didn't figure that out. Oh, there it is.

[Mike]

All right, so go. Let's do the routine. Do I got to walk you through it? Boom. You got to make it bigger so you can see. Make the whole. Make it so I can see the whole screen. Louis, I don't need to see that right now. I need to see that. There you go. Up, up, up. Keep going, keep going. It's the one where they're handing out donuts. Keep going right there, right there.

[Lewis]

Up.

[Mike]

We'll get to that one in a second. Keep going up. Right there. Boom. Oh, wait, no, that's not it.

[Jimmy]

It was the one below it.

[Mike]

It was a little. There's two of them, but whatever it. Right there.

[Lewis]

All right. Says, he was handing out donuts. Hot chocolate.

[Mike]

What are you guys giving out? You're with the Minnesota National Guard.

[Host]

Yeah, we are. Yes, we are.

[Mike]

Why was this important for you guys to do today?

[Jimmy]

It's a demonstration of safety and security. We're here to help.

[Mike]

That's it. That's the. That's the Minneapolis National Guard demonstrating safety and security.

[Jimmy]

That's like community affairs showing up.

[Mike]

Yeah, I did, but we've said that before that the National Guard from Minneapolis is not the same as the active duty coming.

[Jimmy]

No, no, no. You bought the 82nd airport.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Lewis]

That one is going to be 11th Airborne.

[Jimmy]

But that conversation's going. That conversation wouldn't probably go that way. Well, he's a major, so maybe first.

[Lewis]

Of all, you should have been like, yeah, we're just handing out donuts. Yep, yep, yep.

[Jimmy]

I mean, but even Karen has, like, a slick little attitude about, like, even them trying to do the right thing. Yeah. Like, we're trying to show some peace here.

[Mike]

Right.

[Lewis]

Well, this goes back to your point, like, the community engagement doesn't work. Should have dog piled her, beat her.

[Jimmy]

And then said she had a gun, so they could have done.

[Lewis]

I. I didn't see a.

[Jimmy]

She tried. Oh, I got even better. She tried to throw the hot coffee on me, so I smoked her.

[Mike]

I mean, at the end of. You're never going to win that argument that people are putting themselves in harm's way. They just Are I agree.

[Jimmy]

Called the First Amendment.

[Mike]

You can be stupid. Yep. But what you can't do is you cannot impede law enforcement investigation. You're not allowed to do that.

[Lewis]

You're not. Man. I, I don't think that you can even articulate in any way how, you know, saying you can't show up armed. And I'll be like, ah, let me point you to Lexington and Concord, my friend. If you understand what I'm getting.

[Mike]

I have no idea what the you're talking about.

[Lewis]

Those are the, those are the, the, you know, the shot heard around the world. Like, like our, Our founding fathers is my point. Our founding fathers certainly protested. They went out and protested the government. They protested with their guns and eventually it. It became a revolutionary war.

[Jimmy]

Is like. So this is, this is it. This is the one that made. This is the one that made conservatives anti second Amendment.

[Mike]

I know. No, here's the thing that. What, what. What's the point? Everybody wants to argue our rights. Oppressive government do. But they forget we're. We're rat. We're wrangling up illegal, violent immigrants.

[Lewis]

I mean, that's a fair point too. That is.

[Mike]

What. Should we just protest the government? Because we can not. Because what they're doing. I would think every American should be on board with getting violent, illegal immigrants out of our country. Yeah.

[Lewis]

I, I think people.

[Mike]

Let's go stop them from doing that because we can.

[Lewis]

I, I think that there's so many.

[Jimmy]

People that don't like saying everybody should protest. Everybody should believe in one religion, and they don't. Unfortunately, people haven't. Unfortunately, people have a right. It's like saying we should all like.

[Mike]

The cowboys do is we should have those bike those veteran biker gangs come out and just keep the protesters away from ICE for their own safety. Dude. That's. That's for their own safety. Stay away from ICE for your own. I'm doing this for you. I don't agree with ice, but nothing good's going to come from this. St. Make the wall that they do for funerals for soldiers when the psychopaths go out there. And we're gonna add another element.

[Jimmy]

Bad news written all over it, but.

[Mike]

Freaking the Hell's Angels.

[Lewis]

Yeah, we're in Florida. It'll be the Outlaws.

[Mike]

Oh, boy. You guys ever had any dealings with the Outlaws? Mainly Mongols.

[Jimmy]

Funny story. One of my buddies is on surveillance with the Outlaws, trying to watch them.

[Mike]

From down the road.

[Jimmy]

And they sent three guys over with food for everybody in the surveillance van. They're like, hey, good guys. They locked on the side of the van. They wouldn't answer. Of course. We're all inside, like pretending they weren't. So they left like a note on the side of the we appreciate you guys doing, keeping us safe. And they're like right outside the van.

[Mike]

That was at the town.

[Jimmy]

But it really happened because that's how good the guys were. It's a balance that worked there.

[Mike]

So some of the reflections that we have for this episode are we broke down on Saturday. We went live with this breaking news and I had made a reference that was just a fact. It's a fact.

[Lewis]

Now you're growling.

[Mike]

I. I may. Here's the thing is that I never want to hurt people's feelings, but also I don't all. I'm never going to apologize for making a joke. I got more, more feedback from people saying that was funny because that's that dark humor that we all do. We all vowed we were going to have the 3am first responder conversations or the military smoke bit conversations you wouldn't necessarily have in front of civilians that they, you know, or, or people that get offended, really. So you can't. But that's the type of show we are doing. So I stated a fact that the, the sound pattern sounded a lot in fact. Lewis, pull up, boy. You want it? In case anybody missed it. I don't think anybody missed it.

[Jimmy]

Page.

[Mike]

It's on YouTube right there. Just go over. Nope. Yep. It's not on YouTube. Sorry. It's on Instagram.

[Jimmy]

Yeah. And then go to the main page, like the anti hero page.

[Mike]

Or you can just go in the DMs. It's right up there. You got to be able to see the screen, Louis. There we go. All right, go up, up right there. Go up right there. All right, we got it. We're bringing it in now. You know what it sounds like? It sounds like Eye of the Tiger. Now play it.

[Jimmy]

Oh, my God. You're gonna. You're really gonna have everybody making music videos out of people? You can't unhear it, dog.

[Lewis]

It may have sounded different just because that's.

[Mike]

It made a little light of a tragic situation. Rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

[Jimmy]

Very wrong. Very wrong.

[Mike]

Notice what I didn't do? I never once said I supported ICE or anything. I just made life with that guy.

[Jimmy]

That's it.

[Lewis]

No, you just made maybe a joke. I mean, and I was, I was.

[Mike]

Feeling self righteous about getting around.

[Lewis]

I was in there white knighting for you. Like, dude, what the, bro? Like, people are like, I can't believe I commented.

[Jimmy]

Tyler said it, not me. And I left and I never came back to the comments. I saw some of them. Which were what? What exactly. What they are, who they thought that we thought they were. But, yeah, I. I bailed on it. But I. I do agree, if we're going to provide news, if we just. On all the, all the cops that have dark humor like we do, who's gonna watch? Liberals aren't gonna watch this show. Nobody's gonna watch. We have to have those guys watching in order to spread it.

[Mike]

Wouldn't be fun.

[Canine]

Yeah.

[Lewis]

I mean, look, man, we make.

[Mike]

I love pushing the envelope and watching my go.

[Lewis]

I mean, I mean, you did it that day.

[Jimmy]

You heard me. I was like, oh, God.

[Lewis]

I. I mean, we. We watched guys accidentally blow themselves up on, you know, through the remote weapon system.

[Jimmy]

Oh, yeah.

[Lewis]

And we made fun of them. Like, I mean, I. We wanted to do post blast after one and. And this guy was vaporized. Except his perfect, perfectly intact scrolls past that video.

[Jimmy]

Somebody blowing themselves sideways on Instagram. It kind of chuckles like, yeah, you dumbass. Like, that was a bad idea.

[Mike]

Yeah. Like going up against ice. Yeah. What? Oh, yeah.

[Lewis]

But I mean, and again, that's my point is that it's like if. If you have the people that say that. And there was one guy who, who, you know, claimed to have been a veteran, I'm like, bro, shut the up, dude. You've had these conversations, you know, you have. You shut the up.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah. Self righteous. Self righteous. Everybody's so self righteous.

[Lewis]

My personal favorite, though, was the guy that did laser engraving who was like, I can't believe you guys said this. And I was like, do you laser engrave those pearls or just clutch them?

[Jimmy]

You'll see that one.

[Mike]

So that being said, not changing anything about the program at all.

[Lewis]

Well, not.

[Mike]

We did have to shed some light on some. I. And even if I did say something that was. I mean, we wouldn't take it down because we're against taking it down. Yeah.

[Lewis]

We've already come out as a stance on that.

[Mike]

Yeah. We can't take it down because then they would attack the fact that we took it down.

[Lewis]

We, I mean, we, we, we. When we went out, when we broke down the. The shooting in Australia, for those that don't know the. That happened, like, the information that we got that, by the way, everybody had was wrong. And we went out and said, okay, we were wrong. Here's the corrected story. And then people were like, why didn't you take it down? It's like, no, because we it up if we take it down.

[Jimmy]

Getting things wrong.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Making a music video about a dead guy. Getting things wrong. Making music video about a dead guy. They're right, right, right here.

[Lewis]

And that's what makes it funny.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, it's hilarious.

[Mike]

We got a couple more. Well, a couple more big topics today after the commercial break in about five minutes we are going to talk about the AFC division championships. And after that that we've got Rob o' Neill's episode on Annie Stump. We're gonna break down where his lawyer allowed him to go on and talk. And I don't know what the hell their strategy is other than being idiots. But this episode is also brought to you by Ghostbed. Ghostbed.com forward/antihero. Save 10 on their already ridiculous low prices. Everything from pillowcases, mattress toppers, cooling, patented technology sheets and the award winning mattresses. If you got to replace something in the bedroom, go to ghostbed.com forward/antihero and you'll save 10 on all their comfy and it'll tell them. We sent you another reflection though. You guys went on Elizabeth Lane show last night, correct?

[Jimmy]

We did.

[Mike]

What did you guys talk about?

[Jimmy]

The moon landing.

[Mike]

Why is he laughing?

[Jimmy]

It's great. It was great.

[Mike]

Was it a good time for real?

[Lewis]

I couldn't watch it.

[Jimmy]

What's his last name?

[Lewis]

He said it like a bit a billion times.

[Jimmy]

Bart Cyborg.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

I never wished I didn't believe in the moon landing more than last night. I wish I did it. Like I wanted to argue with the guy because he's been on Joe Rogan, he's been on Candace Owens, he's on here. And I don't think we landed on the moon. But I wanted to like take Jimmy's side on this because the reasoning behind him is I made a video, I made a book. You didn't read it. You don't know what the you're talking about. And I think he says some really cool thing. He lost me with the CIA capturing like he, he went off the rails.

[Lewis]

I was like at some point during.

[Jimmy]

The thing he has, he writes a book called we didn't go halfway to the book.

[Lewis]

It was a funny thing happened on the way to the moon.

[Jimmy]

Funny thing happened on the way to cnn.

[Lewis]

Yes.

[Jimmy]

So funny thing happened on the way to cnn. He was kidnapped by the CIA. He had like a video that was going to prove it. They put a bracelet on him that made him feel like he was on lsd. Then he escaped. They didn't go back and get him. He escaped. He went to a drug test. He had his buddy take a drug test.

[Lewis]

Hang on, I got to do something. Escaped, over, set loose.

[Jimmy]

He escaped to CIA. They didn't go get him. And then he made. He pissed in a cup, gave it to his buddy to take to the lab to get drug tested because he was on some type of happy sauce to make him. Yeah, some true serum.

[Lewis]

True serum.

[Jimmy]

And then the weekend that he put the sample in the clinic, got broken into it, only that sample was stolen. Ah, so the government knew that he escaped, knew he went to his buddy, knew that he gave the sample, knew.

[Mike]

What clinic to go to, what clinic.

[Jimmy]

To go to, and then removed. But so he lost me there, because I would think he's alleging they killed a guy involved in the space program to shut him up.

[Lewis]

And he alleged that. That Gus Gr. Ed White and Roger Chaffee were also killed by the CIA.

[Jimmy]

Correct. So I do not believe we land on the moon. But this story, outside of, like, he does present some facts that I agree with, like there's some questions about the shadows, the technology. Could we go back? All that stuff. But then when he got into that version of it, I gotta see myself when I'm there, because I say about. I think I say about 50 words the entire hour and a half.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lewis]

I don't say I. Dude. First of all, Mike gave me my, My, My plaudits for word of the day.

[Jimmy]

Jimmy sat quiet for like, 20 minutes.

[Mike]

Good job. Yeah, I know that.

[Jimmy]

On, too. No, he's getting on too. And then the second half was even more. Jimmy finally stepped in the second half because the guy literally looked at Jimmy and goes, well, you don't know because you didn't read my book. He didn't say. He's like, you don't know because you didn't read my book. So you're uneducated. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Lewis]

And I went, that's true.

[Jimmy]

He was like, with all due respect, sir. And then it started to go back and forth. And, yeah, she kind of said the same thing. She basically said, jimmy, you're wrong. You didn't read his book. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Mike]

About.

[Jimmy]

She doubled down on it.

[Lewis]

Yeah, I mean, it was. It was one of those things where, like, I, I.

[Mike]

Well, keep in mind, Elizabeth Lane asked us to come on because she doesn't know anything about the moon landing, and she wanted to interview.

[Lewis]

But, but here's. I mean, her, her point of view was that, well, When I was in Georgia, you know, we. We learned all about the Soviet space program. And I'm like, okay, you're not an honest broker here. You know, the. So you're gonna talk the honey pot.

[Jimmy]

She said, flat out said to Jimmy, jimmy, you just heard him say he was captured by the CIA and all that stuff happened.

[Mike]

What do you mean?

[Jimmy]

What do you mean you don't believe it? That was her response. It would be like me just going on saying, I wrote a book about. I landed on Mars and I was kidnapped by aliens, and I wrote a book about it. You have to believe it because I wrote it. That was her argument.

[Mike]

Or, you can't even talk because you didn't read it.

[Jimmy]

And.

[Lewis]

And that was. I mean, finally it got to the point where, like, she was like, jimmy, you are not a. A physicist or a scientist, and neither is them, so let's just throw the science out. I'm like, well, if we're throwing the science out, then what the. Are we even talk here?

[Mike]

Was it. Are you glad you went on?

[Lewis]

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, it was. It was a fun time. I mean, it. I. I got to the point, though, towards the end, I was like, I. You know, the Bible talks about.

[Mike]

By the way, we got a Bible.

[Lewis]

Verse for the day, but the Bible talks about answering a fool in his folly. And a wise man is thought wise when he keeps his mouth shut. I sat there and just was like, this guy's gonna talk himself into looking very silly.

[Jimmy]

Honestly, I felt like, man, I do believe in the moon landing, but I want to argue with this guy. I want to flip my stance. Dude, I'm sitting there. I'm going, man, I want to jump in so bad. Until he's like, go off. And I'm like, I don't really know him. She, you know, he's a guest of hers. He's obviously a huge platform he's been on, but I'm like, he got kidnapped by the CIA, and you escaped, and you're kind of big and not very agile. Like, how did you run away? The capturing part where he was running in the median.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Jumped in. He was able to call a taxi. Yeah, probably. It's a good story. Yeah.

[Mike]

You guys will be able to see it on Elizabeth Lane's YouTube channel. It's not. It wasn't live, so it's not out yet. I think she puts it on her platform for a couple days before she releases it on YouTube, so you'll be able to see it there. This shows off to you. Brought. Brought to you by also brought to you by Elevated Silence. If you need a can, go to elevated silence.com use promo code ANTIHERO15. Get a suppressor for your weapon. They have everything from 22 cows to 50 cows. Jim will walk you through the process. It's cheap, it's easy, it's quick. It's not as bad as you think. The feds, the government, just kidding.

[Jimmy]

We support them.

[Mike]

But.

[Lewis]

But we all support tactics.

[Mike]

Go well, exercise your lawful right to get a can, Get a suppressor for your weapon. Go to elevatedsilence.com use promo code anti or 15. Jim will walk you through it.

[Jimmy]

When you get the can, put your put on a gun, put in your back and go tell us.

[Mike]

Yeah, do not go engage with ice though. When you get that candle, we'll be right back with a commercial break and we will be talking about the division championships with sports. Sports with canine. I guarantee you it's Monday and Lewis did not send canine the link.

[Lewis]

I was already going to ask him about that.

[Mike]

Every Monday. Lewis. Over a century ago, in 1910, the Flexner Report, funded by John D. Rockefeller and the Carnegie foundation, re engineered medical education from a holistic whole body approach which appropriately treated the body as an interconnected system to a compartmentalized approach under the guise of specialized medicine. They shut down or consolidated medical schools, marginalized naturopathic, homeopathic and chiropractic medicine, replacing them with symptom management and synthetic drugs. Allopathy is a marketing strategy rooted in fear and manipulated science. This philosophy carried into veterinary medicine resulting in over vaccination, unnecessary surgeries and manufactured food. Just like they did for people. They call it care, but it's predatory and based in profitability. The truth. Toxicity, compromised immunity and chronic inflammation. They're not fate, they're engineered. And so is your power to undo them. We built three targeted formulas to return the body to homeostasis for pets and people to detox, defend and restore. We are the correction to decades of corruption. We are vengeance.

[Lewis]

And we're back. Hey, guys. All right, so second hour, we gotta go ahead and do the one little ad read, Flatline Fiber code. We already talked about dub pouches, right? If you end up taking a gun off of some person that's protesting instead of running away with the gun and accidentally having an nd, maybe put it in a dump pouch. A dump pouch you get from Flatline Fiber Company. Go to flatline fiberco.com put in the code antihero15. Save yourself 15. They got slings, they got freaking dump pouches. Obviously they get IFAACs. They got everything you need, man. So go there, get yourself some good equipment, put it on your fighting kit and then we go talk to you. Mike.

[Jimmy]

Violent Provisions. Check out our boys. Violent Provisions Veteran law enforcement owned operated company geared towards the violent professional. Go to at Violet Provisions on Instagram or violetprovisions.com use code ANTIHERO for 15 off. And goon tape the best tape. Soft tape for rough work. If you're a tactical athlete looking for an edge, try some moisture activated goon tape. Put it on your gun but just don't take it to a nice rally. Put it on your, your pull up bar, your weights. Put it on anything. Put it on your lady, I don't know.

[Mike]

You can put it on an agitator. Wrap them up.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, you can use it as it'll detain them. It's tough. It's moisture activated so it performs when things are wet. It still stays grippy. Go to goontape.com use code ANTIHERO15 for 15 off.

[Mike]

All right, we're waiting on canine to jump in. He will be here shortly to go over sports. Let's get into this division playoff game day. That was championship games.

[Jimmy]

Yes. Yeah, one, one really rough game.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

The Denver game was.

[Mike]

Who won first off, who won?

[Jimmy]

The Patriots. Denver, Seattle.

[Lewis]

I mean the, the, I mean it was the, the Patriots game was like, okay, he's dead, dude. He's dead.

[Jimmy]

Yeah. If I show you the first half and the second half, you would think they were filmed years apart. The first half, the field's green, there's no snow and by third quarter it's. You can't see the field. They had to put like an overlay on the field. Literally at one point they said we don't even know where the ball is. We're waiting for the NFL to tell us where what yard line the ball's on.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Jimmy]

You couldn't see anything.

[Mike]

Can you imagine that chaos?

[Jimmy]

It was a shitty game. The backup quarterback for Denver played like a backup quarterback.

[Lewis]

Yeah, I mean it was, it was everything that you expect.

[Jimmy]

The Patriots are going to get mowed down by Seattle. Yeah.

[Lewis]

I mean look, shout out to Mike Vrabel. Mike Vrabel, who was a Patriot for a very long time as a player is now the, the coach over there. And he's a, he's a football guy. A lot of same vein as like Dan Campbell and guys like that Frames is definitely a dude that you would want to have.

[Jimmy]

He's a Warrior.

[Lewis]

Yeah, he's a.

[Jimmy]

He won Five games last year. Yeah, the Patriots won five games last year. Another in the Super Bowl.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

So they turned their whole with just.

[Lewis]

Because, I mean, I mean it's not just for apes, but I mean, he's sitting at the top, right?

[Jimmy]

Well, they have. What's his name too. Josh McDaniels is the offensive coordinator.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Great quarterback, second year guy.

[Lewis]

Drake. Drake May's great, you know, canine.

[Mike]

Yo, yo, what up, man? I thought you were gonna be here in studio today.

[Canine]

My son ended up getting sick, man. So I. I kept him home. I'm staying home with him. I honestly, I was the first one to get sick, man. But I thought it was from the weather. I went into work last Tuesday, dude, in the morning, 29 degrees. By the time I left it was 82. So we're talking like a 60 degree difference in one day. So I thought that's why it happened. But we've kind of all had a bug here at my house.

[Mike]

All right, so real quick, we recap on the championship games yesterday. We were already talking about the Patriots. The Patriots game.

[Canine]

Yeah. So the Patriots game, man, I. The Patriots won. The Patriots have had a cakewalk pretty much the whole year. Nothing against them. They're a good team, but I don't think they're a Super bowl winning team. But credit to them to. For making the Super Bowl. The biggest thing about this game to me was the difference in the weather from the beginning of the game to the end. If you watch the beginning of this game, it looked like they were in Florida. By the end of this game, it looked like winter and Russia. Like it was. It was.

[Mike]

Has that ever happened in NFL history?

[Lewis]

Oh, yeah, to the Patriots and they.

[Jimmy]

Showed the weather in New England was even worse. So had the game been flip flopped, it was just. It was. It would have been worse in New England than it was in Denver.

[Canine]

Yeah. So I mean, like I said, the beginning of the game it was sunny skies, you know, and then by the end of the game, it was a blizzard.

[Mike]

It was.

[Jimmy]

It was crazy to watch.

[Canine]

I've never.

[Jimmy]

Terrible game to watch.

[Lewis]

It was.

[Mike]

Yeah. Football.

[Jimmy]

Bad performance. Everybody was just.

[Mike]

Was it a blowout?

[Jimmy]

No, it's 10. What, 1310?

[Canine]

Yeah, 1310.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Lewis]

I mean, had they been able to throw the ball more, I think that it would have probably been a little bit more of a bad game.

[Jimmy]

It was just bringing out three and out three and out three and out.

[Lewis]

It was just. You can't even see where your receivers are.

[Mike]

You're.

[Canine]

If you bet the under. It was a Good game, though.

[Jimmy]

The NFC game was a shootout.

[Canine]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Yep.

[Canine]

NFC game was a shootout. You had Matt Stafford, who's probably gonna win another or win an mvp. I was rooting for the Rams, honestly, because I like Matt Stafford. But Seattle, man, they're a complete team. Good in all three phases of football, offensive, defensively, special teams. And I think the, the biggest turning point of the game was the muff punt from the LA Rams. That just, that just gave Seattle the game, to me, it seemed like. But yeah, it was, it was a really good game. It was. It was a lot more exciting than the first one, that's for sure.

[Lewis]

We're gonna see Seahawks and Patriots again.

[Jimmy]

Yeah. Think about the, what the Patriots score or the Seahawks scored, what, 40 in the. Against the 49ers. They scored almost, what, 30. Yeah, 30. I mean, they're, they're. And their defense is great. Their special teams is great. They returned the opening kickoff against San Francisco last week. It's almost a home game for them. They don't have to travel real far. New England's got to go across the country and play in la. So barring some miracle, I think the Seahawks are. I mean, they're, they're tough. Unless they decide to throw the ball at, on. At the one yard line with the.

[Host]

Game on the line.

[Jimmy]

I hope they make that mistake again. But it looks like that, you know, the Seahawks are gonna. And everybody. America's rooting for the Seahawks. Nobody wants to see the Patriots win.

[Mike]

No.

[Jimmy]

So they're going in the game as.

[Mike]

Like the overall favorite or Patriots, man.

[Lewis]

Well, I mean, like, it's.

[Mike]

They're like the anti hero broadcast.

[Jimmy]

I can like.

[Canine]

Nobody wants fans.

[Jimmy]

I can like these Patriots.

[Lewis]

I love Braves, man.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Lewis]

Frs is awesome.

[Jimmy]

Rabel's a guy you want to go get a bar fight with. You want him on your team no matter where you're at. Yeah, but I think they're gonna get.

[Lewis]

And, and really smart football guy. I mean, like. I mean, he seems like a meathead, but he's not. He's smart football guy.

[Jimmy]

Good team.

[Mike]

Hey, what, what was the, the, the deal with the referee in the UFC fight getting walked out. I sent it to you. Is there anything on that?

[Canine]

I don't know much about it, to be honest with you, but I did see him getting walked out. I don't, I don't know the details on it.

[Jimmy]

There was. Here, I got it. There was a fight. Canceled. FBI called in. There was a irregular betting on a fight that ended up off the car, and they had that. Not Too long ago where UFC got hosed in a fight where. Yeah, irregular betting. So right before. And I think the referee was in on it, there was a fight scheduled on the card where the gaming commission called and said, there's super irregular activity betting on this fight. Dana White pulled the fight. I think a referee got sent out, and the FBI is now investigating this. This gambling gate within ufc. It's happening all over sports now. But there was a fight completely pulled from the car due to irregular betting.

[Mike]

But the referee looked like he was being walked out due to injury.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, I. I didn't see that part.

[Canine]

That's what I thought, too.

[Lewis]

Dana White. Dana White.

[Host]

I know.

[Jimmy]

Like, okay, I missed that. I know that they're the hugest. The huge.

[Lewis]

Oh, you got it. I got the. I mean, I got the. The video on. On YouTube of. Of Dana White talking about it.

[Jimmy]

Gambling. I don't. Yeah, I'm sorry. The referee with. Thing must. Must have been different.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

I thought maybe they were tied together because the big story was a fight.

[Mike]

Being pulled from the card, but it wasn't a big fight.

[Jimmy]

No, but it was a fight. And they're on tv. Ufc. And it's like one of those things we talked about canine earlier this year where pitchers are throwing the first pitch of the inning four feet in front of home plate for a, you know, massive bets on. It's going to be a ball. So there was irregular betting. And Dana White was like, what was cool about the UFC this weekend was it was the first Paramount Plus UFC fight. I will tell you that on ESPN. The fight went out every 20 seconds. There was an issue with the connection. Paramount ran it smooth. It was 8. It's 8.99amonth now to watch UFC and versus 79.

[Mike]

How do you think that makes the UFC money? Does Paramount pay them to be on the network sponsors?

[Canine]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Mike]

So you think UFC makes more money than charging for.

[Jimmy]

The gate was 11 million just in the people coming in the door. The 8.99amonth is prorated. But what they were talking about I did see was they're showing commercials now during the corner men talking to the fighters, which pissed a lot of people off, because you're like, hey, bro. Like, we love hearing the corner man giving advice.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

And Dana White's like, hey, man, give me a break. It was our first event. These guys paid a lot of money to have UFC let us work through the kinks because people are like, oh, I couldn't hear the corner man over the commercials because. Because what they're doing is guys in the corner and a Bud Light guy in the corner and this ad. So they're kind of working through that. But he gave out the most bonuses ever. All the fight of the nights were $100,000.

[Lewis]

So the ref blew his ACL out.

[Jimmy]

Okay, okay. Completely different.

[Lewis]

Yeah, the ref blew out his ACL during the fight. And Dana White's like the first time I've seen any, anybody who was not a fighter blow an ACL.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah.

[Canine]

So the other cool thing now with Paramount Plus 2 and with Dana White, I don't know if you guys know this. Dana White actually started his own boxing prom. So he's not just doing MMA and ufc. He is now in the boxing world. So he started something called Zufa Boxing, which is also on Paramount plus so now he's trying to compete with Top Rank espn. So now on Paramount plus, not only does he have the UFC and the mma, he now also has pro boxing and he started his own boxing promotion. He's got Max Kellerman as one of the top guys on there.

[Mike]

So he's probably getting some kind of weird multi deal where they're gonna hook up his boxing promotion on. On Paramount. If they get USC.

[Jimmy]

The trickle down is Paramount charges cheaper. It's 8.99amonth. But you know, there was new sponsors monsters still I saw in the middle of the ring, but there were new sponsors. So those sponsors are paying a ton of money to have their logo in the ring. That's going to Paramount. So it, I'm sure it all washes out in the end where it's saving the consumer from spending 79amonth on a pay per view because there's actually another flight next this coming week. I think UFC 325 is right behind this one. There's another boxing. So now you're getting. Imagine I have to buy two a month.

[Mike]

I can't even maintain my bills.

[Jimmy]

That's what I'm saying.

[Mike]

Let alone run. Can you imagine making decisions like that? That's why I always wonder like, does Paramount pay them? Do they pay Paramount to be on there?

[Jimmy]

Yeah. So Paramount, I mean it's all. Everybody's making money. The sponsors are now picking up the tab. It seems like the, for the consumer and the, the trade off is, hey, they're going to buy Monster. They're going to buy this drink because they're seeing it for ufc and now they're more. I think more people are going to watch too. What I tell you, you, you pay 8.99amonth to watch UFC, or I need to bang you for 79.99 once a month. You're like, you know what? I'll just bootleg it or I'll just catch the highlights now. I'm gonna go it. I'll spend the 8.99amonth. Paramount goes, look, just like us. We're. Look at our numbers now. We got 25 million people watching the UFC fight. Bringing the sponsors. You're getting seen by way more people because we're allowing people to see it easier and more cost effectively. So I think it all washes out in the end.

[Mike]

All right, Jimmy, you had brought us something earlier about you thinking the. Were you serious about the NFL being rigged?

[Lewis]

Huh?

[Mike]

Yeah. What made you say that?

[Lewis]

I mean, the. The first of all, the. The Patriots are back again. When they. When they released the. The picture of, like, the season picture that they put out, it's like animated and stuff. The four quarterbacks that were going to be playing in the. The championship games. We're all right there.

[Jimmy]

It's crazy. Yeah, I saw it this morning. So the low. There's always a conspiracy about the logo.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Logo matches the two teams that are going to be in the Super Bowl.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

There is Seattle green in the logo this year. That real neon green, almost like the antihero. But he's right. The first four guys walking into the super bowl in the logo released before the season started are Bo Nix, Drake, May.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Stafford and Darnold.

[Mike]

And that was released at the beginning.

[Jimmy]

Of the season, before the season started.

[Mike]

The Florida season.

[Jimmy]

The four quarterbacks that played yesterday are the four guys in front of the line.

[Mike]

I don't know. Okay. And I want your response to that.

[Canine]

I seen the picture. Listen, I'm not. I'm. I'm one of those guys that I don't believe. Like, I just don't believe anything. I don't really believe too many conspiracy theories.

[Mike]

Like, I just want to watch my football, man.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Canine]

Like. And unless I see something in person, I don't believe. I've had so many people tell me. I'm just looking at them like, dude, you're full of. Now if I see it in person, you know, it's authentic, but I just. Oh, man, I just don't believe. I'm a hard.

[Mike]

I'm from the streets, man.

[Lewis]

Moon landing. Yeah.

[Mike]

You. You believe we landed on the moon then? I. I don't. I don't.

[Canine]

I don't know how to answer that, to be honest. I don't know if I really conspiracies were.

[Mike]

Unless you've seen it for yourself.

[Canine]

I didn't see it, though. I wasn't born in 1969. I mean, I wasn't around.

[Mike]

How would he know? So that. That's some. All right, canine. I appreciate you coming out. I guess there's no games next week. What the. We gonna talk about hockey?

[Jimmy]

Hockey's on, like, a Tuesday.

[Mike]

Hey, we're.

[Lewis]

We're almost to the Daytona 500. Guess who's got a car in the Daytona 500 right now?

[Mike]

DIY.

[Lewis]

It used to be called DEI. Now it's called Junior Motorsports.

[Mike]

Oh.

[Lewis]

Because I got killed by Teresa the Eyes.

[Jimmy]

What's got all the female cops working.

[Lewis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're going. We're gonna see Dale Earnhardt. We're gonna see an Earnhardt car owner. Back in the. Back in the mix.

[Mike]

Who's the racer?

[Lewis]

I'll. I can't pronounce the last name. They call him Alligator. It's Algr or something like that.

[Host]

He's.

[Lewis]

He's a. A championship winner down in the Xfinity circuit. He ran last year, and they ran ninth. Like, for a car that's, like, not like they have to race to get in. Other people are going to be allowed in. They have to race to get in. He finished ninth. That's awesome. I think Junior Motorsports came to play this year. Car looks amazing, which we could put up a picture of it when we weren't Minecraft. Yeah. Dale's proud dad moment right here.

[Mike]

All right.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Can I. We will see you next week, but you will be live tonight.

[Canine]

I will be live tonight, 7pm Eastern. Counterculture Sports live on the Counterculture YouTube. We're going to break down the football games, talk about all the sports going on. And I just want to say thank you to everybody that's reached out to me, because after you posted that clip on Instagram, I. It got like, 25, 000 views, right? I mean, I had so many messages. I had people literally, like, really worried about me. Like, I'm not. I'm not just hitting. Like, I'm not. I'm not joking. I had people messaging me saying, if you need somebody to talk to, you can talk to me. Will keep it confidential. I've been there, bro. I had someone else like, dude, how could they do you like that and make a video of you like that? And I'm just. I'm just like, yo, it's show biz. Like, you know, at the end of the day, like, we're entertainers somewhat actors, like, you Know what I'm saying? So as. As real and authentic as that was.

[Mike]

Yeah, exactly.

[Canine]

As real and authentic as all that was. It's all love. Like, it is what it is, man.

[Mike]

If it gets us more videos, as many followers as you did. Messages?

[Canine]

No, I got more messages, honestly, than. Than followers. Dude, I. Dude, it was crazy.

[Mike]

I don't really care about it.

[Jimmy]

I just messed up this message to make myself feel better. I don't really care about you.

[Mike]

All right, J9. We'll see you tonight. 7:00 o' clock kind of culture.

[Lewis]

Come on, man. Now you can do better.

[Mike]

All right. It is the moment we've all been waiting for.

[Lewis]

Yep, this is it.

[Mike]

It is the Rob o'. Neill. But what we're gonna do real quick is we're gonna go to stream will start soon. We're gonna take a two minute break, see if we cannot get this, this video quality back up and running. So do me a favor, pull that up and just remove us.

[Jimmy]

And we're back.

[Lewis]

And we're back.

[Mike]

We're back. Don't know if we were successful in the.

[Lewis]

And somewhat. Yeah, a little bit successful. A little bit. Oh, yeah.

[Mike]

All right, we're good. We lost. We lost a couple of years. That's okay. All right, the Rob o' Neill saga. Now, Lewis, you are going to pull up the link I sent you and we're gonna go to. So if you don't know Rob o' Neill was on Andy Stone's podcast, you mind talking about that while I pull this up?

[Lewis]

Yeah, I mean, Rob went on. I mean, we, we. I didn't watch the whole thing, to be honest with you either. I, I didn't really want to. The bottom line is, and, and this is the, the big takeaway, right? Rob. Andy asked him specifically, like, hey, the official report says somebody else shot him. And he's like, yeah, that's.

[Mike]

Well, we're gonna, we're gonna break it down. But yeah, just talking about Rob on there in general.

[Lewis]

Well, you know, I. That guy, I don't really know what his plan is because the whole thing, I mean, Mike, I don't know how much you saw of. Looked very staged to me.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, it's all.

[Mike]

Do you think he would have went on without. Without parameters being set about the lawsuit?

[Jimmy]

Not a chance.

[Lewis]

No way. We wouldn't have either, by the way.

[Mike]

Yeah. All right, so let's pull up. You're gonna go to 41 minutes, maybe around 42 minutes. 41 to 42.

[Lewis]

I mean, the best comments I saw and I saw a lot of these comments while he's looking for that is like, why doesn't Andy and Andy just moderate the conversation between him and Brent and. And be done with this?

[Mike]

Well, yeah, because they want. Everybody wants to keep that money train going. All right, pull it up now. Make us big, too.

[Host]

The anti hero podcast and what went down is basically them calling me in a very, very hateful tone, a fraud and a liar for two straight years. And they've been making a living off of it. They've been making a living off of calling out veterans. And they've. They've. They've done it to me. I think I was first. Yeah. And I did respond back when I was drinking heavily. Shouldn't have responded the way that I did. What was the response? No, just.

[Andy]

I didn't see it.

[Host]

I think it was something along the lines of, I don't even know you, bro. Yeah, something like that. And then whatever, back and forth. But they've been added after me, and whenever they use my name, the clicks go up. And then they did it to Tim, Ken, they did it to Jocko. They did it to Chris, Kyle, God rest us. So they did it to Marcus Luttrell. They did. I think they did to Dakota and what. I mean, whether this Tucker guy likes it.

[Lewis]

Some of those are specious lies.

[Mike]

No, we didn't do it to Marcus Latrell got done by another Navy SEAL that came on our show. Yeah. Jaco just got picked on a little bit for being bald. I think once by Brent. He did it.

[Lewis]

The same guy that was talking about Marcus Luttrell talked about Jocko. Yeah. And I disagreed with him and. And have said that I disagree with his assessment.

[Jimmy]

Can the guy who's done a lot of interviews speaking, like criminal interviews, the real big deep breath before he finishes lying. Yeah, Allegedly lying. Like, that's a. That's a dead giveaway. I'm not an expert. I'm not saying he's lying. I'm just saying for those watching at home, I have seen in my career, that's an indicator right before guys are going to lie. If I'm telling you the truth, I'm just rattling off. This is what happened, man. I got this out of the fridge, stopped this morning at a gas station, and I saw Michael Jackson there, like, right before you get ready to, like, fabricate, allegedly fabricate or what I've seen in my pat. I'm not talking about this interview. I'm talking about in general and other reviews. What I've seen is right before somebody gets ready to Give you a line of sh. A. A sandwich. They normally have to do something to distract that nervous energy that I'm going, I'm about to lie.

[Lewis]

I saw.

[Jimmy]

That was Presley too. When I was there. I saw Elvis. I saw Michael. It's crazy. Like, it's just an indicator that I've seen from interviewing other people. Not Robin. You know, I'll never talk to him, but other people I've interviewed. I've seen them take deep breaths right before they give you a sandwich.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Jimmy]

Okay.

[Lewis]

So my. My issue number one. Am I on, by the way?

[Mike]

I can't hear it. I can hear you. Okay.

[Lewis]

Is never. We never said anything about Chris Kyle. I mean, I. I've purposely not said things. And I do know certain things about Chris Kyle, but I haven't said anything about him. As far as Marcus Luttrell goes, you can go back less than a month and go. We all said we feel for that guy. It really sucks, man. You know, we.

[Jimmy]

So he just defamed you guys?

[Lewis]

Yeah. So none of that is.

[Jimmy]

Rob just defamed you guys on camera?

[Mike]

We consume.

[Jimmy]

I think so.

[Mike]

Oh, damn.

[Lewis]

So, yeah, I mean, that. That kind of pisses me off because I mean, I have been very careful and we all have. We. And nobody's been talking about this dude. Rob's the one that keeps bringing this up.

[Mike]

Sorry that. You're good. Go ahead.

[Host]

Or not. He will be known as the guy who made money off of trying to ruin veterans lives.

[Andy]

So let's. Let's parse this here for a sec because I'm curious. What are your thoughts on. Or should there be the ability to call other veterans out?

[Host]

Well, yeah, but not. Not. Not that way. I think so.

[Andy]

That's what I'm saying.

[Jimmy]

Anybody but me.

[Andy]

I agree with the phone call. I think if you are connected with the person, I think that the first move should always be to go directly.

[Host]

Yeah, I agree.

[Andy]

When you and I, we talked briefly on the phone.

[Lewis]

Shit.

[Andy]

Probably about a month ago when we were setting this up. And I think. I'm pretty sure I told you. My biggest concern in all of this is the external view of the veteran community and how. And how it erodes. The biggest question I get now is how do I know who to trust? And that's actually a really hard question to answer because there are public examples. And I don't want to harp on Tim too much. I think Tim is a. He's one of the nicest people that I've ever been around.

[Jimmy]

From my side too.

[Mike]

What. What we're doing is we're going to break down the entire anti hero lawsuit portion and what he has to say about this Osama line killing. So if you don't want to watch it, we are going to break down that portion. The rest is getting to know Rob, Navy SEAL missions. You know, the other.

[Lewis]

I was really cool. I was. I did cool things, all this stuff.

[Jimmy]

But to talk more about interviews, in other interviews I've done throughout my career, when somebody is not being honest, they, huh. They want to get to. Like, they're not comfortable in the conversation they're trying to get to.

[Mike]

They want to get to the hard part.

[Jimmy]

They want to get to the heart or they want to get past. They're not comfortable having it. It. So it's like, hey, did you. Were you there the day the guy got killed? No, man, I was good. Okay. But then you start asking, were you? Yeah. And you're like, getting ahead of the question because in your head you're thinking about what the detective is saying and then you're trying to come up with the whole thing. I'm not saying he's lying. I don't. I don't know the story.

[Lewis]

These are the.

[Jimmy]

Allegedly. I. I am talking about other interviews I've done throughout my career. When somebody is fabricating, they're trying to get ahead. Almost like they're planning what they're saying as you're speaking. And some of those nervous distractors. Yeah. And they're. They're ahead of you. So again, I'm not.

[Lewis]

I. I can tell you from experience, working with a bunch of cops, these guys, they've been lied to so much. Like, there's just no chance. My, My whole life is just. When I talk to any of them.

[Jimmy]

Call me a piece of.

[Lewis]

Tell them the truth.

[Jimmy]

Call me whatever you want to tell me. Call me. I was invited, like Rob o' Neill's website or a podcast through my IA that I was in. Out in front, you know, to me. And then it wasn't him. Call me a million things. I don't care what you call me. I've been in thousands of interviews.

[Lewis]

Yep.

[Jimmy]

I've been to classes and tech Read Technique and other interview schools, and I've sat across from people who have lied and then confessed and all that. I am just going based on not this interview. I'm just telling you I've seen similar behavior to that interview in my experience, where guys get ahead. Yeah. Even your wife. Your wife, your wife. When you know, you didn't take. Like, I used this last night yesterday when you know, you didn't take the garbage out and your wife's like, yeah, yeah, I'll get to it. You want to get ahead of her scolding you for not doing it because you don't want to hear the bad part. You just want to go, yeah. So it's like as you're in an interview, you're ahead of it. I've seen, in my experience where people get ahead of it because they're thinking about their answer ahead of time. Not just. Yeah, this is the truth, man. Let me tell you what happened. I went to the store, I saw the guy. I didn't see Michael Jackson or. Yeah, oh, no, I did, I did, I did. It's just getting ahead of it. Not that one. In my experience, I've seen that happen.

[Lewis]

So I'll let you do the Reed technique on me. I saw Bigfoot.

[Mike]

Really?

[Jimmy]

Jimmy?

[Mike]

Yeah, he did.

[Jimmy]

Okay. Where was he?

[Lewis]

So we were.

[Mike]

Did you see he did it?

[Jimmy]

Yeah, I know he did it. Because he's got to think about the lies.

[Mike]

No, I.

[Lewis]

But the thing is, is that what I'm about to tell you is the absolute truth.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Lewis]

We were walking. I live in, out in Ocala in Spar.

[Jimmy]

Jimmy saw Bigfoot living out Ocala and Spar and he doesn't believe.

[Lewis]

We heard please.

[Jimmy]

In the moon landing too.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Do you wanna.

[Lewis]

We heard something breaking through going. We had. We lived on a dirt road. We heard something going from one side to the other. We thought it was a hog. So I grabbed my ar and I was with my brother in law, Dean. We went down onto the road and as we're going there, I looked at Dean, I went, dean, did you fart, bro? And he's like, no, I'm like. Because it smelled like nasty rotten eggs. I'm waiting for questions.

[Jimmy]

No, I, I'm. I have to make it clear that Jimmy bleeds in the moon landing.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

And the. And Bigfoot all at once. Okay, but you, but hold on. But you really believe you saw him?

[Mike]

I do.

[Jimmy]

Okay, then. I mean, I can't because you're going to tell that you're telling the truth. You're telling what you believe is the truth.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

I would need you to be lying about something.

[Lewis]

Okay.

[Jimmy]

Oh, so it's a whole different.

[Mike]

You were just telling us a story about Bigfoot.

[Jimmy]

He really believes it. So it's like, here's.

[Lewis]

I was telling.

[Jimmy]

You at Crunch, when we got out of Crunch, we're talking about the re technique. One of the biggest tells was like at the end of the interview guys told you he didn't do it. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. And you'd be like, we used to be trained. I would go get a box of nothing, and I would put all this stuff in a box, and I'd walk into the room, and I'd sit down at the table after it. I put the box down right in front of the guy. There's nothing in it but my lunch, some paperwork. And like, no, he just sees the box. And I would go, hey, man, I listened to everything you had to say, and the evidence overwhelmingly says that you were there and you shot the guy. It does. That would be the answer.

[Host]

It.

[Jimmy]

It does not. Like, if I walked in and you didn't do it, you'd be like, take your evidence to get the out of here. Like, so a lot of the times, the presentation of the final thing would be bringing a box or bring in a folder. And, hey, man, by the way, we know. I listen to your story and all the evidence, everything we got from the lab, all the. Everybody says that you. You did indeed kill that person. It does. They're questioning. They're asking you.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, man, it does. Oh, and it's like that moment if, like, you may not even get a confession after that, we know we're on the right track. That's the point of that. I'm not saying it's flawless. You don't always get a confession. But if I looked at you and you know you didn't do it, and I told you, hey, man, all the evidence said, you'd be like, probably take your. Shove it up your ass, because I didn't do it, you would react differently. But when they look at you and go, it does. And they're like, oh, he's. He knows I did it, but I'm not gonna tell. But I didn't do it. It's like, you already gave me away. So that. That is. It's not flawless to get a confession, but it goes. We're interviewing the right guy.

[Mike]

That.

[Lewis]

And that's why I kind of, like, was like, hey, look, you can ask me questions about this paranormal event you and I didn't want to answer. Whether or not, unfortunately, I'm just honest. You're like, are you telling the truth? Yeah. Yeah, I am telling the quote.

[Jimmy]

My. My favorite comedian, Mitch Hedberg. Maybe Bigfoot is blurry. Maybe that's why he's always blurry in the pictures. Bigfoot might just be blurred because we've never gotten a clear picture I'll tell that story. I want to have that conversation.

[Lewis]

I'll tell that story on open mic.

[Mike]

All right, so let's continue.

[Andy]

But at this point, the volume of information around what he has been. In his own words, not what other people are saying. Yeah. Is at a point where it's like, man, the conclusion that I am coming to, that the evidence points to is that you lied repeatedly. Why you did so. I. I leave that to you to make up your own mind. But a phone call, I don't know, it fixes that one. And most of those things that were said were actually public facing. So how do you address that without being public about that? I'm not trying to compare the two situations.

[Host]

It's not my problem. That's what I'm saying.

[Andy]

I'm not trying to compare the two situations. I'm just. I'm thinking out loud. Should there be a mechanism? Because vets, unfortunately, are probably the only people that can sniff out the bs.

[Host]

Oh, no doubt about it.

[Andy]

Call out other vets. I think it's. It's the how.

[Host]

The how definitely needs to change.

[Jimmy]

How do we do it?

[Andy]

Because when the. When the end state of people, let's say coloring outside of the lines is public, does a private phone call solve that or does the response actually have to be public too? And I don't necessarily have an answer to this.

[Host]

I don't know. I mean, I don't think it necessarily needs to be public, especially like when they're comparing to me. It started with Tim Kennedy with a bronze Star without valor.

[Andy]

Yeah, it was a slick BS versus.

[Host]

Bv, but a lot of people don't realize there is administrative award for a bronze star. And then the V means you're in combat. And he didn't have a V. And that's where the argument started. I don't know all the stories he told. I'll be. To be fair, I've met him a few times and I like him personally. And he's a black belt in jiu jitsu. One UFC fights. I'm taking his word. That's how we started. Bronze started with V. I have four of those with V. Same don't give a. That's what the argument starts. But then we start saying Tim's a fraud. Rob. Just like Rob o'. Neill. It's like, hold up. Yeah, four bronze stars. About two silver stars that don't come with valorous. Assume gallantry. Like another one, Val. Another one like that. When you. When they start lumping me in maliciously saying they're all liars. That's. I mean, you're broad breast stroking. It's not calling Rob o' Neill and saying, hey, here's the issue.

[Mike]

Pause. Dude, this guy.

[Lewis]

We never get my head hurt.

[Mike]

We never once lumped Rob in with Tim at all. About Rob lying about valor.

[Lewis]

I. I can back.

[Mike]

In fact. In fact, we've talked about it multiple times where Rob has done heroic missions and has, as far as I know and as far as everybody knew, has earned all of those valorous awards, the Silver Star, including. There's no. Like he said, there's no V device because it's assumed gallantry. Yep. So there is no doubt in my mind he's won all those awards. Now what he's trying to do is get a bunch of allies in when he's throwing smoke on the battlefield right now, trying to confuse people. Like, were they really compared? No, he wasn't compared at all. It was two totally separate things. The Ben Lan rain was a year and a half before Tim Kennedy.

[Lewis]

Yeah. I mean, the number of times that. I mean, just recently we've said Rob o' Neill probably a really good guy to have in a gunfight. That being said, the story about the raid seems. It seems fishy to me.

[Jimmy]

The story that other people have written is.

[Lewis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jimmy]

The story that other people written books about.

[Mike]

That's fishy.

[Lewis]

Yeah, there's that story. Yes, there's.

[Jimmy]

But you guys, this. This podcast ruined this.

[Mike]

We're mean and hateful. Oh, keep going.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Andy]

And again, I'm not trying to.

[Host]

You know, I've never been asked about what happened in the room by anyone there except the point man in. In my bedroom.

[Andy]

Well, give me, like, a few more minutes. We'll get to that.

[Host]

I'm just saying. I'm just saying that's a very important question.

[Andy]

I know, and trust me, I'm not.

[Host]

Saying you didn't do your research. I'm just. Hey, I interview people, too, man.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Andy]

No, the veteran. The veteran public facing positives and negatives. That's. There has to be a way to. And again, I don't have the answer to this. And. And so separating the two, because what can happen is that. And I agree with you on this, you can develop a following, let's say, and the first ones you have a history of, you find something and you talk about it, and it's true and it grows.

[Mike]

Right.

[Andy]

So then you find something else and you talk about it, and it's true. Maybe your business model even shifts. So that's what. You know what I mean. Then it becomes that. Then you're looking for more salacious, you're looking for more controversial. And then you get one wrong, Right? I don't know. And this is where it just gets lost. And people are like, I'm so tired of seeing vets attack each other.

[Jimmy]

What do we do?

[Andy]

Which vets telling the truth, which one's not? And I don't have answers to any of this. I'm just trying to paint the picture of what I, what I see in front of us.

[Host]

Why would they.

[Mike]

I, I really, I get. Everybody's riding the train. Ryan, the Rob o' Neill trainer. Everybody is going to get theirs, Their, their little moment to shine for the interview or talk about it. But I really don't agree with. I don't have the answer to this. But let me bring up a problem. Like, state your, your Navy SEAL dude. State what you think is right. Because we all know what Andy thinks is right.

[Lewis]

Yeah, we do.

[Mike]

Andy thinks.

[Lewis]

And he's been on record saying it.

[Mike]

Yeah, I, I would, I would be led to assume that Andy think Rob o' Neill is wrong and everything he's doing, but he can't say that. Whether or not be because he's a polite host, he's trying to stay neutral, or he was told, we will not cover these topics.

[Jimmy]

I would assume there was discussion about.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

How it's going to go.

[Lewis]

Well, remember too, like, I'm not a confrontational guy unless I really get pushed to be confrontational. I don't like doing it. So there's a very good chance that he's sitting across the room from him or across the table from him and going, I, I don't know how much I want to actually make this a huge deal.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, that was me last night.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

And then me last night. I could have gone off the rails on that guy with the moon landing stuff. And it's like, do I really want to, you know, do that?

[Mike]

Essentially, what people are doing, they're just letting these people paint.

[Jimmy]

Here's what I hear him saying, though. It's kind of like, almost like suppressing speech. If somebody says it happened, you're supposed to just assume it happened. You're almost saying, you can't question.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Anybody. Or we worry about what happened or.

[Lewis]

We need to do it the way Rob o' Neill wants us to do it. And first of all, Rob, there's two stories, bro. I'm, I'm sorry.

[Mike]

Rob o' Neill says that you. He's allowed to put stuff in the spear, in the public, but you Switch the cameras loose.

[Host]

You.

[Lewis]

I'm just trying to find our timeline.

[Mike]

What timeline? Because I lost it in the video. Just. No, you don't get. You can play it. No, no, don't play it right now. I'm saying you don't really need a timeline. I have no idea what the you're talking about anyways. What was I talking about?

[Lewis]

We were talking about Rob o' Neill and putting things out there in the public sphere.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Oh. Oh, yeah. And then he wants it to be addressed to him privately, so I get to say whatever I want. And if Mike, you have a problem with, you come call me. But I'm gonna continue like. That's not.

[Jimmy]

And he blocked you, didn't he?

[Mike]

Oh, yeah. Okay. He hasn't blocked me.

[Lewis]

Really has not.

[Mike]

Every time somebody. He says something dumb, someone sends it to us, and it says unavailable. All right, keep playing.

[Host]

What happened in the room by anyone there except the point man in. In the bottom bedroom.

[Andy]

Well, give me, like, a few more minutes. And again, I don't have the answer to this.

[Host]

And.

[Andy]

And so separating the two, because what can happen is that. And I agree with you on this, you can develop a following, let's say, and the first ones you have a history of. You find something and you talk about it, and it's true, and it grows, right? So then you find something else, and you talk about it, and it's true. Maybe your business model even shifts. So that's what.

[Mike]

You know what I mean?

[Andy]

Then it becomes that. Then you're looking for more salacious. You're looking for more controversial. And then you get one wrong, right? I don't know. And this is where it just gets lost. And people are like, I'm so tired of seeing vets attack each other.

[Jimmy]

What do we do?

[Andy]

Which vet's telling the truth, which one's not? And I don't have answers to any of this. I'm just trying to paint the picture of what I. What I see in front of us. And it's. It's rough.

[Host]

Well, the. When I checked into Red Squadron In 2004, Wyman Howard was a CEO. And I remember. I'll never forget. We're. I mean, we're standing against the wall, fresh out of Green. Team don't know shit about this place. I remember him saying, you know, let me listen. People working together would get rid of some of the questions that come up for. He goes off some reason. And I don't know where the stories goes back to. Some stories is built on each other. I don't know where they come from. But there's a better way than just saying this guy's a fraud. Kill him or not kill him, but ruin his life like you think. I mean, Tim Kennedy had a lot of.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Andy]

I don't know. And I for Tim, I think he has done more net positive than net.

[Host]

Without question.

[Andy]

The problem with, in my opinion, which counts for nothing, the problem with the situation with Tim is that he won't own it.

[Host]

That's if you, if he would own it off the bat, it would have been a better call.

[Andy]

It would have. And I mean, if you look back at the first video, he basically at the end said, you know, you guys, the anti hero guys.

[Host]

I'd heard that too. I didn't see it.

[Andy]

I, I saw, I watched it. He made the video and it's like, dude, you went after the messenger instead of the message. And then when he did try to own it, I forget the exact verbiage, but I unintentionally some. I would like to take unequivocal responsibility.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Andy]

And he didn't.

[Mike]

And I understand why because I don't think. First off, I want to give props to Andy Stump for doing the timeline things where we could find this. You don't have to watch the whole episode. You just literally click to the section of the thing. But yeah, I disagree. If Tim Kennedy had done that, it, like look at Rob. I don't know what Rob's game plan is, but he's riding this one out and I, I think he'll take it to a his grave. I honestly do. And Tim Kennedy kind of did. The one thing I wouldn't do was not own it, but also just go away. He just like went away.

[Jimmy]

Well, kind of apologized, but not all.

[Lewis]

The way chat GPT apology.

[Jimmy]

I shouldn't have done what I'm not going to say I really did, but if I did do it, I shouldn't have.

[Lewis]

Yeah. I mean, again, that, that, that's so done and over with. Tim Kennedy is a, is no factor.

[Mike]

I think in six months things come back and no one care.

[Lewis]

I, I agree. I know.

[Jimmy]

You stop this. Just go do your job.

[Lewis]

Go your job and shut the up.

[Jimmy]

I'm sure that's what the point man did.

[Lewis]

Positive. That's what the point man did.

[Mike]

All right, let's go.

[Andy]

Because I think there are probably cascading legal consequences from that. He might be in risk from his publisher. From a book.

[Host]

Oh yeah.

[Andy]

Things of that nature.

[Host]

That's my advice for anyone writing a book. If you, if you've talked to someone in the military. Get it approved.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Andy]

I mean, that is an approach that is.

[Host]

I get.

[Lewis]

I mean, that's just so everybody knows approval from DOD for your book is not about whether or not it's factual. It's whether or not it contains sensitive or classified information. That is the only thing that getting your book approved does. It is not. That is. It is still the history according to you. And now you can say whatever you want about. I'll use mine. I can say whatever I want about the battle of Solder City. I could write a book about it. I could hand it over to the DOD and the Department of the army and they can. They can approve it because I didn't release anything classified about tactics, techniques, or procedures of being a sniper. All of it could be a lie.

[Mike]

All right, let's keep going.

[Host]

Well, my book came about funny, because my. My father's convinced that I do everything and has been like. He's convinced. He's still in Montana, right? Yeah. Here's the point. When I joined the military, I was in the delayed entry program.

[Mike]

And we asked to get him back to the point.

[Host]

GI Jane was coming out. Demi Moore just been down there to check it out. We were at home and there was a Life magazine depicting buds. And inside was drown proofing. And my father said, see, that's you right there. I can tell that's you by your calves as he was facing dad. I'm literally not in the Navy yet.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, Like, I'm not.

[Andy]

That could potentially be me in an evolution one day. But I, like, I saw you yesterday and this article was written last month. Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

It's just so. It's funny. No, what was the first question? I was making a point about my father.

[Andy]

I don't know if there was. I was talking about how owning.

[Host]

Owning it. Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Host]

So. So anyway, sorry. So getting a book approved when I got to buds. I remember, check. I'm in my whites again. Same day. Someone is up at 602 yelling at someone else to just finish the 5.5 nautical mile swim or whatever. I'm like, what am I doing here? And my dad said, keep a journal for sure, because someone's going to want to read your book one day. And I remember, I'll keep a journal, but who the going to want to read my book? Yeah. But then I had a journal. It's like, well, I'll just get this approved. And I did.

[Lewis]

That's kind of how that came about.

[Mike]

Yep.

[Jimmy]

A little bit.

[Andy]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

I've heard horses one Number.

[Host]

They made me say army special Forces instead of a. A different unit.

[Andy]

Interesting. I wonder what that.

[Host]

Because I was impressed with them. There was this. There was a time.

[Andy]

Because they're amazing.

[Host]

When I ran into Delta the first time was that. Well, not ran into Michael.

[Andy]

Redacted like.

[Host]

Sorry about that. I remember seeing them. Them and I think, like, I'd work with them at the command.

[Mike]

And I saw a little fast. That's.

[Host]

And I was impressed with those dudes.

[Andy]

Those guys are awesome.

[Host]

I don't give a step off a little bird after a gunfight. You're a cool.

[Andy]

Yeah, no, I did a cross training.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Host]

Sign me up.

[Andy]

Yeah, there are a few jobs.

[Mike]

Talk about jealousy.

[Host]

Jesus. I don't. I want to go to court. They're trying to move it to federal.

[Andy]

Goes from here, hopefully to court.

[Host]

They're trying to get it dismissed right now. They want to dismiss before discovery?

[Mike]

Yes.

[Host]

I don't. I don't.

[Mike]

Stop Closet. There's no. There's no grounds for defamation. We're gonna get. You're gonna see that in here. Of course, we're not trying to go to court when there's no grounds to go to court. There's no defamation here. All he says is that we're mean and hateful. All right, keep going.

[Host]

But all three defendants are in. Or the. The. All the defendants are in Florida. It doesn't need to go federal. We're going to keep it in New York. We moved to keep it New York.

[Andy]

How do you think the discovery process would impact that? If they wanted to subpoena, let's say everybody that went up to the third deck.

[Host]

They. If they. They could subpoena everyone. Well, I mean, they could if they wanted. There's no reason to. Yeah.

[Jimmy]

Because why? Because I said so. I already told you, they're good.

[Mike]

They're good. I talked to them. They're good. They don't need to.

[Jimmy]

Oh, there's a reason. I would say it gets better. You know what I would say, I hope they do subpoena him, because I'm telling the truth.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

That would be my answer. That was me in that interview. And you said, what if they're gonna subpoena everybody who saw it happen? I would say, let's go. Let's do it. Because I said what I said is true. That would be my answer to that. That's. Hypothetically. If I was in an interview and I did something and he said, I'm gonna bring everybody that was there, I'd be like, great. I want everybody there. Because I'm gonna prove them wrong.

[Lewis]

These are all my teammates. These are all my bros. Let's go.

[Jimmy]

They all saw it the way I did.

[Mike]

All right, let's go.

[Host]

People in the room saw what happened. The third guy in the room it told. He said he didn't see what happened. And the third guy in the room was not the number three man in a stack. He was the point man of a second stack.

[Jimmy]

Really?

[Host]

Yes. That's where the confusion comes in.

[Andy]

How did he end up the point man of his second stack? Is there distance between them now?

[Host]

And I need to clarify also just for people listening, this lawsuit is not about proving who killed bin Laden. It's about malicious defamation of character. They don't need to subpoena anyone to see how mean and rude and taking. Trying to make a living.

[Jimmy]

Mean and rude.

[Mike]

First off, yes, the. Unfortunately, because of the. What the context of the lawsuit is based on, it is unfortunate that it is who killed bin Laden. It is. And that's where the. The problem with all these military special operations commands getting involved and all these secrets and all this. Yes, it does matter. It really doesn't. If it gets dismissed before the. Defamate the before it. Because it's not defamation. But mean and hateful. They're just mean and hateful guys.

[Jimmy]

Yeah. So it's not. He's not suing you for defamations because he's. He doesn't like what you're saying.

[Lewis]

So. So my alleged. We heard. I heard his feelings. I mean I. Again, I wasn't even here when we talked about Rob o'.

[Mike]

Neill. Yeah. All right, let's go.

[Host]

Enough ruining me.

[Jimmy]

What's the bar.

[Andy]

The burden of proof on that for your lawyer?

[Host]

Probably the lawsuit. If they read it, they would see how much stuff I have depicted over the. Even the past year. Which is statute of limitations.

[Jimmy]

Okay.

[Host]

Just malicious. Jealous.

[Andy]

So it's essentially.

[Host]

It's about your being a dick and you're gonna stop. I've told the story about my daughter.

[Jimmy]

My neighbor was a dick. Used to cut my grass too far over. I should sue him.

[Mike]

Sue him?

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Mike]

You're a dick and you're gonna stop.

[Jimmy]

He's mean. He's mean to me.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Mike]

All right.

[Host]

In college.

[Jimmy]

Now that we're.

[Host]

And I'm not disparate. Like that's what they say now too. Oh, what about the veterans who didn't come home with their kids? I'm not saying anything about them. I'm saying my kids, my 4 year old daughter at her preschool at Rollingwood Elementary. I Was at her tea party on my birthday. Good Friday, April.

[Andy]

She's not currently at this.

[Host]

Not anymore.

[Andy]

I was gonna say what he's doing.

[Mike]

Is real quick because we got, we got. What he's doing is he's now trying to counter the counter when we went on there and said you're not the only one that's deployed or has a job that's dangerous with children. Right. So now he's trying to say, well that's not what I meant. So keep going.

[Andy]

Be like Michael, make a note of that time because we are bleeping that out.

[Host]

But no, no, this was 2009. Okay, so I'm interrupting.

[Andy]

Make sure you're not doxing your own child right now.

[Host]

We've done some security stuff for that too. Four years old, my birthday, we get.

[Jimmy]

A call, gotta go.

[Host]

Rich, rescue Richard Phillips, give her a kiss, leave for war. From her.

[Jimmy]

Okay.

[Host]

Three year old, my other daughter, I gotta leave to go on the bin Laden raid. Haven't even told my wife where we're going because we just got back from deployment and I'm telling her I gotta go now. This is a one way mission. The bin Laden, we're gonna die on the way in. Get blown up when we get there. There, this is it. I gotta tell her goodbye. She's three. She told me to wait. Went upstairs, put Mr. Elephant and a pillow in a hello Kitty carry on and said well you're however a three year old can say you're gonna take me on vacation when you get home. Okay. Now they're in college and they're proud of me and they have tick tock and everywhere everything they've ever been proud of. Their your dad's a fraud. He's a fraud. He's a liar and a fraud.

[Andy]

Do they get that in person or online?

[Host]

They get it online, but then they call me at night, they can't sleep. They've been proud of me their whole lives that I'm stopping that. I get that as I get a defamation lawsuit. For people listening, it's not about who killed bin Laden, how much you're taking pleasure in maliciously defaming me, how much of the responsibility.

[Andy]

And again this is a way upstream question. How much of there is. I'm not saying you're responsible, but your actions or decision to come forward with who you are and the book and putting your name out there.

[Lewis]

Good shot.

[Andy]

If you hadn't made that choice.

[Host]

My name was out the second I pulled the trigger and I heard the.

[Andy]

Cops into the military worlds.

[Mike]

Andy tries Asking him this question about three times. But what I'm saying is, Rob, if you hadn't done this, do you think you'd be dealing with all this? Do you think maybe this was your own fault?

[Jimmy]

Correct. All right, keep going, civilian.

[Host]

Here's how it started. Even on the second deck, I ran into Will Chesney on the second deck with Cairo, and he asked me who got him. I heard other guy who got this at Nizro. And I. One of the answers I heard was, oh, great, we're never going to hear the end of this because I tell stories, I talk. So people were asking. And then on. Then we get back and there's a. We go to the cbs, there's the Internet, stuff like that. On the flight over, people are, you know, we got Virginia, we got some guys in D.C. we got Coronado. Hey, don't tell anybody. But then you get back and it's like, you're a bartender. Don't tell anybody. So my name's out. Someone that was a fellow at the White House called to say, hey, we heard it was you. Yeah. Names out.

[Jimmy]

Well, how come nobody else is written that he did it?

[Mike]

It wasn't out. This is all. This is why I'm lying.

[Lewis]

This is why.

[Jimmy]

Where's all the other people?

[Mike]

You're gonna hear all this thing where, like, a guy put his arm around me and said, congrats, he's the guy that did it. It's all fabricated. Allegedly. Who?

[Lewis]

Nobody's. And by the way, nobody's saying mean things about you.

[Mike]

We're.

[Lewis]

We're literally just saying, dude, this is not the truth. We can. We know it's not the truth. We can prove that it's not the truth.

[Mike]

Well, I mean, allegedly. Allegedly. That we. There's other stories.

[Lewis]

Yes, that. Let me rephrase. We can prove that other people say different things than what you are saying.

[Mike]

All right, go ahead, Lewis.

[Andy]

Well, that's out. But that's inside of at least the bubble I'm talking.

[Host]

I didn't. I didn't know. I didn't release it then. Yeah, we're gonna be the best friends forever. Doesn't matter.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Host]

And there was just. Just getting back. It just. There was. There's butthurt people. Butter. Like, we went out drinking the night we got back.

[Andy]

Yeah, I'm not saying that, though. What I'm saying is publicly coming out and acknowledging.

[Host]

Well, I mean, later on, like, I stayed in the Navy.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Host]

I went to JSOC to put in. I wanted to be a master chief. Dude started Happening.

[Mike]

He goes on for another two minutes about his goals in the Navy, and Andy has to bring him back. Go ahead, keep playing.

[Host]

I went to Jason to put in a warrant package. I'm still going to stay in for 30 years.

[Andy]

Yeah, okay.

[Host]

I'm down there. JSOC and then extortion went down. Obviously everything morale can. Yeah, we were having some issues at Red Squatter and it was being a JSOC didn't help that.

[Mike]

What's this? I wasn't around the command with you putting your name out there as the guy who killed bin Laden publicly. Rob, you're still dodging the question. Go ahead.

[Host]

This was going around, starting a lot of going to see the master chief every Monday morning, talking about me saying I'm signing a book deal, going to D.C. like, I went up to D.C. i was dating a girl. I was separated, getting divorced, and I get a te on a Saturday night. I get a text saying, you need to be back in Virginia Beach Monday morning at seven for like a reprimand because miss Tattletail love me.

[Andy]

What were the problems that Red Squadron was having?

[Host]

They didn't like. Well, they didn't like the way the bin Laden thing went down at the end. Started shady.

[Andy]

It was almost like a draft.

[Lewis]

Hold on a second. So he's already painting the picture that him and Bis have problems and that. That and. And that this said, hey, this guy's signing a book deal and blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, like this. This sounds like again, dude is firing it at everybody now, you know, you.

[Jimmy]

Know who else is going to have to be involved?

[Lewis]

Matt pissing that.

[Jimmy]

His kids. Oh, he just brought his kids into it. Like, they're gonna have to say my dad's not. It's not hearsay. I actually went to my dad and said, I'm being made fun of or I have mental strain from this. So his kids are now witnesses.

[Mike]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jimmy]

So he just drug his kids into court. You can't make a statement that your kids are the reason that you have these issues because they saw videos and they got made fun of. So his kids are going to be deposed and have to provide date time. This. This is what was said to me. This caused me like, he's drug his kids into a courtroom.

[Lewis]

Jesus, man.

[Andy]

After I heard like they pulled like the senior most people and everybody kind of took a step down. Like, the skipper became like the troop commander and I offer to go on the raid. Had seniority, had some lasting impact on the be there. But they weren't ch before.

[Host]

Yes.

[Andy]

Because of that, because of the, a.

[Host]

Lot of the structure with the senior leadership. And I'm not trying to bad about this, the guys are running the show, but they're trying to pick any from a deployment. I was in jb. I was running the Al deployment. Good deal.

[Andy]

That's a rank structure. One being the highest inside of the team.

[Host]

I don't like the new build. I was the old building.

[Andy]

I've never been.

[Host]

You're not missing out. It's just, it's like a skiff. The whole second deck's a skiff. So you got to go to that end of the mile long building or that end to go upstairs to walk a mile to your team like that. But they called us into room, a conference room behind the conference room and lock the door so no one else can come in but these 28.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Host]

And these are all SEAL team six guys.

[Jimmy]

So.

[Host]

What'S going on then?

[Mike]

You come out in the lawsuit. Oh yeah. Do you want me to go to the next section? No, no, no, no. Is it still on? The defamation and lawsuit? Okay, keep going.

[Host]

You found a thing in a house in a bowl in these mountains and you're gonna go get it. What's the thing? Can't tell you type. And so dudes didn't think it was real missing.

[Andy]

So like they had your name out publicly.

[Mike]

Oh, go back.

[Andy]

If you hadn't had put your name out publicly. Do you ever sit back and wonder the difference?

[Host]

I was at a point, I was at a point where my name was out was enough.

[Lewis]

So my dad has made this point, point to me probably every time we have to talk about this lawsuit, which is that if he had done what we were all supposed to do and been a quiet professional and not wrote a goddamn book, he wouldn't be worried about.

[Mike]

Yeah, that's, yeah, that's what we're gonna.

[Host]

Get into now that I decided, well.

[Andy]

There'S a difference between your name being out and somebody coming forward.

[Host]

And yeah, there's also a difference between admitting they know who you are or putting your head in the sand and saying, well they'll never know because I didn't say anything yet. Yeah, that's where I was at. It's. People know this, this. I have to, I mean I, I'm not even going to get into the. They've moved a lot since the bin Laden. My kids have. And it's been bad. Like not fun.

[Andy]

If you hadn't been as public as.

[Host]

You have, well, if I wouldn't have been picked for the Bin Laden.

[Mike]

That's the fourth time Andy's tried to ask him about that. If you hadn't done this, do you think you'd be dealing with this? And he cuts them off every time with a bunch of keep going.

[Host]

And I would probably be a master chief at San Diego right now and they'd be fine.

[Mike]

Sure.

[Andy]

But also things like, you know, the Esquire magazine and stuff like that. If you chose not to participate in things like that, that was, that was.

[Host]

A different reason for that. And no, my whole point is, though.

[Andy]

But like the choice to exist publicly is a choice.

[Lewis]

Do you ever.

[Andy]

I'm not arguing against the defamation. What I'm saying is the biggest.

[Host]

Being a public figure.

[Andy]

Being a public figure and the choice to do so, even though in the military circles your name was out. I was at trade at, at the time when the operation went down in a. I'll tell you the name of the master chief afterwards, but he was a previous red guy and your name came up. I mean, this was within days. So, yeah, in the military for sure. But that's different than being a public figure. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's. Do you ever think about if you could go back in time, I guess the question is, would you still decide to be a public figure based around that particular operation? Not that your career is defined by that, but.

[Host]

No, my career. Career is defined by that.

[Andy]

Now, would you make the same choice as far as public figure, your desire, not design?

[Host]

I would have changed. I would have made a lot of different decisions.

[Andy]

What would you have done differently?

[Host]

I would not have provided the top cover in the after action report that I did.

[Mike]

Stop. This guy's going on talking about what he would have done different in the mission. Andy's like, no, what would you have done?

[Jimmy]

Would you want to be a movie star, write a book and be the guy if you could do it all over to keep your children from dealing.

[Mike]

With all this, that big of a deal.

[Jimmy]

Even other people from writing books saying, you're liar. Yeah, did you need to do this is what he's asking.

[Mike]

And so I would have provided better cover.

[Andy]

The keep going, don't jump ahead.

[Host]

You're asking.

[Andy]

I mean, we're getting there.

[Host]

Look, I'm not, I'm not unhappy that I gave a squeeze to the appointment going upstairs when I was. There was no one behind me. I'm not unhappy, happy. When a troop chief behind me before I went into bin Laden's house said, let's clear the garden. I said, the garden's good, let's go in bin Laden's house. I would have kept doing that. I wouldn't have given as much talk cover though. I I doing what happened after the bin Laden raid. I remember saying into myself I'm gonna regret this. This is going to come back to haunt me.

[Jimmy]

Okay.

[Host]

It has.

[Andy]

What do you mean by top cover?

[Host]

I can explain to you what happened because the, the big thing they talk about is an after action rule report.

[Andy]

I have heard or read that there exists a cell phone audio recorder.

[Host]

Yeah I've heard there might be two but I know the commanding officer recorded.

[Andy]

One so and for clarity before you even start talking about this, I have never been on an operation that was at that level of neither had I so what I'm saying is like the AARs I have done well that's what.

[Host]

That'S the point I was they're like.

[Andy]

Around the table like you know what I mean because they were like super low level and if we really needed something to focus on or like change something we would sit and talk about. I've never done something like this structure.

[Host]

That's what I'm saying too on this level. Brief to the Ranger colonel. Let's get our together yeah that's there's a debrief and then there's probably.

[Andy]

So the boys got together, talked about.

[Host]

The first, the first debrief was over Bin Lan's body in Jalalabad.

[Andy]

Okay.

[Host]

So we got back, I was on the 47 and this is how weird it was. I mean this is a. I'm in, I'm in a new area now. Like we get off the bird. I, I had a piss bottle in my pocket. I didn't want to use the new diapers they gave us in the flight end because I just never used them. Same reason I carry the old school nods not the quad knives because I've jumped with these. I know they work. I know where the battery goes. I'm not going to with new way less heavy too. Yeah. So I also had a diaper but I'm excuse a piss bottle. I'll remember to throw it out. Forgot to just I chopping a lot of piss in my pocket cargo pocket.

[Mike]

Oh my God.

[Host]

When we get back we land I'm going to put the pisser cops real quick.

[Lewis]

Sure do when people are lying do they tend to give you way more details?

[Jimmy]

Yeah inflation. Yeah A collusion if I tell you more so if you're, if you're asking me a very direct question and I first of all if I answer a question with a Question. I don't want to answer the question. That's like day one, fto. Hey, man, what were you doing here? What do you mean, what I was I doing here? Like, what you were doing here?

[Lewis]

So.

[Jimmy]

Yes. And then the other collusion is like, over inflate the story. Did you go to your cousin's house and pull knife on Tiny?

[Mike]

But.

[Jimmy]

Well, you know, I was over that way. And when I was on my way, I stopped at McDonald's and I got a hamburger. And on the way from the hamburger. No, dude, I didn't ask you what you did. I want to know if you went inside and did xyz.

[Andy]

So.

[Jimmy]

Yeah. And most in my experience answering a question with a question is buying time and overinflating the detective's mind or the interviewer's mind with other facts. Get you away from what? Actually, let's get. Let's get to talking about giraffes. Jimmy Giraffe, you know. Yeah. I was at the raid. But, man, giraffes are really cool, dude. They're really tall. They have a bunch of like. They're a weird animal. Right. Like, I'm gonna get you away.

[Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

From the topic. So that's my experience.

[Mike]

All right, let's go.

[Host]

At the back, there's a trash can.

[Jimmy]

In the back of the hangar where.

[Host]

We park the helicopters, and there's these mechanics from TF160 pointing at them. Me, that's the guy that got him. Throw the thing away. The other bird comes back, run into the point man. We have a discussion over here. And then Bin Laden's body's over here. So we go over that. And the ground force commander said to Bill McRaven, Admiral Bill McRaven, do you want to meet the guy that killed him? He brought me. Brought him over to me. He put his hand on my. On back of my neck like this. And it was like almost a fatherly yet uncomfortable.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Host]

Looking up in law and he says, your life just changed forever.

[Andy]

Where was the ground force commander?

[Host]

He was right next to me.

[Lewis]

No, no.

[Jimmy]

Oh, no.

[Host]

In the. In. Yeah, in the. He was. He wasn't in the room either.

[Andy]

Yeah. I mean works which for any ground force commander out there, you better not be the. I was gonna say see one of.

[Host]

The best ground force commanders I've ever had. And again, this goes to the theory. Not the theory. The practice of a debrief. When we were in Iraq in 07. The best summer of my life, by the way. And we're hitting target, target, follow and follow.

[Lewis]

Follow.

[Host]

We're waiting. The sun's going to come up. I need to call in the birds, but we got, you know, the GRG things, whatever. And then my troop commander gets. You're in charge. Don't. That's.

[Andy]

Yeah.

[Host]

Ask me the two questions.

[Mike]

How fast are you going, though? So you just clicking.

[Host]

Yeah. And every.

[Mike]

Wait. Wait for me to say again.

[Host]

Me meaning go do your. Go do what you have. That's exactly how it went down. Perfect. Everyone's safe.

[Andy]

Yeah.

[Host]

I've been. I've done hundreds of them. Reaction report. When something could be incriminated, you don't just throw it out for them to record.

[Andy]

Would you and the poor man talk about away from village that.

[Host]

He asked me the two questions. The two questions anyone from that team has asked me about the room, other than an email I got from Bis later. And he asked me where the. Was everyone?

[Andy]

The one man asked. Okay.

[Host]

And then he said, was he hit when you went in there?

[Andy]

So he had taken shots.

[Host]

He took a shot.

[Jimmy]

Okay.

[Andy]

And was asking you whether or not.

[Host]

He was hit when I saw him.

[Andy]

When the debrief went down, yes. What was the difference between those two?

[Host]

The difference was the shot hit him on the top of the head. And then what we said was. And then I went in and he was circling the drain. That's the story. That's clean. Clean meaning there's no questions. That's their debrief.

[Andy]

Is that what happened?

[Host]

No, I. I'm prepared to tell you what went down. And I've never told your face.

[Jimmy]

It's crazy.

[Lewis]

Dude.

[Host]

Told anyone before.

[Andy]

We'll get to that. But.

[Host]

So, okay, this is an exclusive.

[Andy]

First off, you might want to give it to somebody else because I'm kind of a retard. I don't know if you've read the.

[Host]

Good news is I'm a retard. Well, here's a couple of retards with a good microphone.

[Andy]

And here's the thing, too. Like, I'm not. I'm not a provocateur.

[Mike]

Right.

[Host]

Never thought that.

[Andy]

And I think actually one of the first things I told you on the phone was like, dude, I don't care who killed.

[Host]

I believe I said, I don't either.

[Jimmy]

Yeah, but.

[Andy]

Because what this means is in the official debrief, the truth wasn't told. Which another way to put that is somebody somewhere lied.

[Host]

Yeah, possibly.

[Andy]

Well, if the truth wasn't told, I'm going to connect the two on that. Right. If the story that was told in the official debrief is not what happened on the ground then?

[Host]

It was kind of close.

[Andy]

Yeah, but you know as well as I do, that doesn't mean anything.

[Host]

Well, at a debrief, it really doesn't either.

[Andy]

Unless that debrief is used to paint the official narrative moving forward.

[Host]

Possibly.

[Mike]

Boom. Schwartz was watching that, like.

[Lewis]

Yeah, shut up, Rob.

[Mike]

I mean, Andy for the layup, too, by the way. That was a. That was a bro move. I don't even know if he did that, but that was. That was pretty much going. I'm gonna let you walk into this room and make yourself look like an idiot.

[Jimmy]

Yeah.

[Mike]

By saying this thing. I'm not accusing you, but if that's the narrative that the military put out. Is that defamation?

[Lewis]

Yeah. And again, again, like, I mean, his face when all this was Mike's face was just priceless because it's just.

[Jimmy]

Mouth open.

[Mike]

I got it.

[Andy]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Lewis]

We got to get rid of this guy.

[Mike]

All right, give me one second.

[Jimmy]

It's like I said, I've been through a few things. I know I'm not a Tier one operator. I'm just a cop. And I've been through some interviews. I've written some documents. You know, I didn't shoot anybody in the face. I didn't do anything cool. But, you know, some things just don't.

[Mike]

All right, go back.

[Jimmy]

Seem cool.

[Lewis]

Hey, man, we get spammed.

[Host]

The good news is the appointment for the second stack, who was three men in the room, everyone, him and behind, doesn't need to be subpoenaed because they didn't see it. They didn't see in the debrief. The appointment for the second stack, who was three men in the room, everyone, him and behind, doesn't need to be subpoenaed because they didn't see it.

[Mike]

Stop it. Stop it. Are you kidding? They're good. They don't need to be subpoenaed.

[Jimmy]

We don't want to hear their story. Don't.

[Mike]

Do not subpoena. I talked to him, actually. I talked.

[Jimmy]

He's fine.

[Lewis]

He's fine.

[Mike]

He agrees with me. Let's not speed.

[Jimmy]

We don't want to have anybody else in there. Just these.

[Mike]

Just.

[Jimmy]

These are good.

[Mike]

They do not need to be speaking.

[Jimmy]

That's like saying we have 20 witnesses at the scene, but we're only interviewed.

[Mike]

Three agree.

[Jimmy]

They could have information, but we're just going to say. Never mind.

[Lewis]

I'm just going to tell you boys right now, the last people you want to tell some lies to is a bunch of cops.

[Jimmy]

You don't want to interview Them. What if I walked out of the room and said, he's lying to the fifth guy in the stack?

[Mike]

He's.

[Jimmy]

What he's going to tell you is a lie. Didn't happen that way. Would you not want that guy subpoenaed to at least know maybe somebody told him something. You have leaving.

[Mike]

If they're gonna say I don't have anything to say, they have to be subpoenaed to say it on record. You have to get on the stand and go, I have nothing to say. I didn't do it.

[Jimmy]

Didn't see it. Or somebody walked by and said this. They did. What did they say? Well, they told me this. That's. That's rel. That's not hearsay anymore. That's somebody who left and told somebody something that just happened.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Jimmy]

You have to at least interview them. You're right. And say, didn't see anything, didn't hear anything. Okay. You're dismissed.

[Mike]

Yeah, and I don't think there's a deposition for civil hearing. I think that's. Anyways, keep going.

[Host]

Interesting, Louis. And what some guys saw, they just. They. They didn't see what they think they saw.

[Lewis]

Veteran. Hold on.

[Jimmy]

I told you, dude.

[Mike]

I told you it got better. This what some guys say they saw or think they saw. They didn't see what they saw.

[Jimmy]

This is last night all over again. Yeah, this is last night. This is last night's interview all over again.

[Lewis]

I.

[Jimmy]

You think you saw that. But I, that's not how I, I want you to say it so you don't. You didn't see what you think.

[Mike]

Isn't this the most sociopathic thing you've ever. First of all, let's convince millions of people that you. Oh, I guess if Rob says they.

[Jimmy]

Don'T interview these people and they don't call it. But you didn't see what you think you saw.

[Lewis]

I mean, like, let's, let's be clear what he's saying. He's saying that the best of the best of the best Tier one operators or can get on a target and see something that they did not see and all agree that this is what we saw. But the truth, according to you, is what's real. And they're the. They.

[Mike]

They don't think.

[Lewis]

They don't. Because they're. These are guys trusted with.

[Jimmy]

You know what this does. This, this interview does. And he's talking about bad for veteran community. This is Rob O' Neill basically saying here 1. Guys make up things, lie and didn't see what they saw. These are the top guys. In his own words. Right now. The top guys in the United States government can be liars can see something and lie about it.

[Lewis]

Lie to their chain, lie to their.

[Jimmy]

Chain of command, write an after action report. That's not true. These are the guys that we make movies about.

[Mike]

About.

[Jimmy]

These are the guys that did the coolest things that would never lie in my brain. This guy is now saying, hey, those tier one guys, they can see something and lie or they can see something and go, that's not how it happened. We don't. Again, back to police. I don't have that option to go. I saw Tyler shoot that guy, but I didn't see that. Yeah, I'm gonna change that. Or I didn't really. We are responsible for what we saw being put on a report, going to court and testifying to it. If in any of those steps I change my story, fabricate or lie, I am committing perjury and my job is I cannot work as a police officer anymore. These are the top guys in the world that he's now saying guys at that level of training and, and buds and, and, and all those classes and all those missions. The top guy can see it and they're wrong about what.

[Mike]

And he's saying they're incompetent and they, they don't know what they saw.

[Jimmy]

That's what he's saying.

[Mike]

Yeah, let's keep going.

[Host]

When, when people are on TV admitting they shopped in Laden while he was dead and the appointment was always in front of me. They didn't say how far he was in front of you.

[Andy]

So what actually happened when we were.

[Host]

I was eight guys. Well, now I need to.

[Andy]

Talk me through. Yeah, talk me through because we can skip the garden.

[Lewis]

Well, we had to take a break.

[Jimmy]

This guy, man, that's it.

[Mike]

That's actually in a nutshell.

[Jimmy]

Go watch the rest of it.

[Lewis]

We can, we can do it again. Jesus.

[Host]

Come on.

[Mike]

Andy Stump did a good job being a, a moderator.

[Jimmy]

Just think one more time, one more time. He asked them directly what happened and Rob deflected to something else.

[Mike]

I don't know about the story.

[Jimmy]

I'm just saying.

[Lewis]

Hey, just remember, we, we don't need to subpoena anybody. We don't need to go get any. None of that. We just, just talk to Rob.

[Mike]

Rob already verified. These guys are good. They don't know anything.

[Jimmy]

All right, so.

[Lewis]

All right.

[Mike]

Anyways, that is the end of the broadcast. We went a little bit over, but we had to cover these topics. It was a hell of a day. Thank you guys so much for the engagement. We will be back tomorrow, but Patreon Tuesday. So if you haven't signed up for our Patreon, we go on there, we do the same thing, but only Patreon members have access to it. We can engage with y'. All, we can ask, we talk about some wild taboo that doesn't get put on YouTube, you know, it's just Patreon. So join us Tomorrow Patreon Tuesday. 11 Good. Sign up for our Patreon right now if you haven't. And then we run it five days a week. We got Guest Wednesday, we got sinister coming up. 11 Bravo grunt that's now a rapper. We actually went to a show and then Thursday is back to the flagship broadcast and Friday is Casual Fridays with the boys. So we will see you guys tomorrow Patreon Tuesday. Take care.

[Lewis]

Later.

[Mike]

Sav team for life.