Iron Sights Podcast

Summary

The Antihero Podcast – Iron Sights Episode Summary

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Antihero Podcast
• Host/Author: The Antihero Podcast
• Description: Part Delta Force. Part Street Cop. All Truth.
• Episode: Iron Sights Podcast
• Release Date: March 31, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Antihero Podcast, titled Iron Sights, hosts Tyler, Brent, and guest Scott Howell delve into a multitude of topics encompassing the fitness industry, supplement corruption, regional differences within California, and the complexities surrounding Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT). The conversation is enriched with personal anecdotes, expert insights, and critical discussions aimed at uncovering underlying truths in these areas.

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1. The Corrupt Supplement Industry

Timestamp: [00:00] - [00:36]

Tyler opens the discussion by highlighting the unethical practices within the supplement industry. He explains how companies like "Company X" fund biased studies that favor their products, misleading consumers about the efficacy of supplements.

Tyler: "Company X paid for the study that was done at the university on these products or on the ingredients that are in these products. And miraculously, it totally favors this particular product. There's money to be made there. It is dirty."

Brent humorously counters the notion of fat burners by suggesting that actual physical activity is the true fat burner.

Brent: "It's called your two feet."

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2. Regional Dynamics: Northern vs. Southern California

Timestamp: [11:23] - [20:00]

The hosts explore the stark contrasts between Northern and Southern California, emphasizing political, economic, and social disparities. Tyler discusses how Northern California, particularly the Bay Area, is experiencing artificially inflated home prices due to tech industry dominance, leading to the displacement of long-term residents and the deterioration of public schools.

Tyler: "The public school system in Northern California in general, but in Northern California is a disaster, total disaster."

Scott adds that the political leanings of major cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles overshadow the more conservative, rural areas, fueling sentiments of underrepresentation and calls for secession.

Scott Howell: "Northern Californians their tax money and you know, and the laws they abide by. And the political landscape is all dictated by Southern California."

Brent interjects during this segment with promotional messages, maintaining a balance between content and sponsorships.

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3. Fitness Industry Insights

Timestamp: [27:02] - [38:15]

The conversation shifts to fitness, where Tyler and Scott discuss the genetic factors influencing athletic performance. They touch upon the ectomorph, mesomorph, and endomorph body types, debating the extent to which genetics determine one's ability to excel in various fitness disciplines.

Tyler: "There's a genetic mold that you have. Some people are just predispositioned to be lean. Some people are predispositioned to carry more weight."

Brent brings up the persistent debate of “calories in, calories out,” questioning its validity in the modern fitness landscape.

Brent: "Do you believe in that?"
Tyler: "Depends on the context of what we're talking about."

They critically analyze the prevalence of fitness fads and the lack of consensus within the industry, attributing much of the confusion to financial incentives rather than scientific advancements.

Tyler: "People want to convolute it and make, give it some sexy shine or some new."

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4. Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) and Hormonal Health

Timestamp: [70:00] - [131:39]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing TRT, its benefits, challenges, and the stigmas associated with it. Tyler shares his personal journey with TRT, detailing his struggles with initial treatments like testosterone creams and pellets, which led to adverse effects such as elevated estrogen levels and infections.

Tyler: "Once I finally got it figured out, it's a game changer. Biggest change in my life. And I mean that in every sense of the term."

Scott Howell emphasizes the importance of strength in law enforcement and tactical roles, arguing that TRT can enhance performance when administered correctly.

Scott Howell: "I've always kind of feel like I've been right on this, the whole roid rage thing. And here's the truth about it."

The hosts critique the medical industry's handling of TRT, pointing out the lack of proper education among physicians and the restrictive insurance policies that make accessing TRT difficult.

Tyler: "Physicians are not educated on this. They don't get this education."

Brent echoes these sentiments, sharing his frustrations with doctors' dismissive attitudes towards optimal hormonal levels.

Brent: "My doctor was like, I went and got tested. I was at 417. And he was like, that's fine."

The discussion also delves into the cultural perceptions of TRT and steroid use, debunking myths such as "roid rage" and highlighting the legitimate benefits of testosterone therapy when managed responsibly.

Scott Howell: "There is no such thing as roid rage. Being a bigger person now allows that personality trait to shine through. But there's no roid rage."

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5. Personal Anecdotes and Experiences

Timestamp: [155:10] - [157:19]

Tyler shares a humorous yet embarrassing story from his early days as a gym trainer, involving a misunderstanding during a blood pressure check that led to an unexpected and awkward situation.

Tyler: "And then as I turn around, this lady had her shirt off. Sitting at the desk. She had pulled her shirt off, and she was butt. Ass naked from the top up."

Scott Howell recounts his own gym mishap, involving a failed bench press attempt that resulted in weights crashing over the rack, leading to a moment of humiliation.

Scott Howell: "I put all the weights back. I put the bar back up. I went to Drew...in the truck. I'll be in the trucker, worked out for an hour."

These stories serve to humanize the hosts, providing relatable content and lightening the intensity of prior discussions.

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6. Transition to the Firearms Industry

Timestamp: [157:19] - [162:09]

Responding to the socio-political unrest following events like the George Floyd protests, Tyler explains his pivot from the fitness industry to the firearms sector. Faced with threats to his gym from civil unrest, he took proactive measures to protect his business, sparking his deep dive into firearms training and preparedness.

Tyler: "So, grabbed a couple firearms, the couple that I had, and packed, threw them on my backpack...I was trying to be really pragmatic about my approach."

This transition sets the stage for the Iron Sights podcast, where Tyler aims to bridge conversations between fitness enthusiasts and law enforcement professionals, fostering a community grounded in mutual respect and understanding.

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7. Conclusion and Promotions

Timestamp: [162:10] - End

As the episode wraps up, the hosts continue to blend content with promotional segments, encouraging listeners to engage with their various platforms and products. Tyler highlights the importance of genuine dialogue and continuous learning, emphasizing the podcast's role in providing value through authentic conversations.

Tyler: "So we started having those conversations with people, which led to more conversations."

The episode concludes with final promos and a call-to-action for listeners to connect via social media and subscribe to the Iron Sights podcast across various platforms.

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Notable Quotes

• Tyler [00:00]: "Company X paid for the study...it is dirty."
• Brent [00:36]: "It's called your two feet."
• Scott Howell [07:36]: "It's what you're good at. No homo. Can we say that?"
• Tyler [11:24]: "The public school system in Northern California...a total disaster."
• Scott Howell [38:15]: "There is no such thing as roid rage."
• Tyler [70:00]: "Testosterone therapy...it’s a game changer."

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Insights and Conclusions

• Supplement Industry Skepticism: The episode underscores the pervasive corruption within the supplement industry, urging listeners to critically evaluate product claims and the funding behind scientific studies.

• Regional Disparities in California: The significant political and economic divide between Northern and Southern California impacts communities, leading to feelings of disenfranchisement and discussions about potential state division.

• Fitness Fundamentals vs. Fads: Emphasizing that foundational fitness principles like "eat clean, lift hard" remain crucial despite the confusion caused by ever-evolving fitness trends and fads driven by financial motives.

• TRT as a Legitimate Therapy: The hosts advocate for the responsible use of TRT, debunking myths and highlighting its benefits for those facing hormonal imbalances, while criticizing the medical industry's shortcomings in addressing these needs.

• Personal Accountability: Both hosts share personal stories illustrating the importance of self-awareness, proper education, and selecting knowledgeable professionals to guide one's fitness and health journey.

• Integration of Firearms and Fitness: Transitioning into the firearms industry allows the podcast to address preparedness and safety, aligning with the hosts' backgrounds and the podcast's overarching theme of truth and resilience.

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This comprehensive episode of The Antihero Podcast provides listeners with a deep dive into critical issues within the fitness and supplement industries, regional socio-political dynamics, and the nuanced conversation surrounding TRT. Through candid discussions and personal narratives, the hosts aim to educate and empower their audience to make informed decisions about their health, fitness, and safety.

Transcript

[Tyler]

You know, you got Company X, whose product has got all these things in it. Well, Company X paid for the study that was done at the university on these products or on the ingredients that are in these products. And miraculously, it totally favors this particular product. There's money to be made there. It is dirty. I mean, just go to any supplement store, you know, on the corner or whatever. We passed one of them on the way in, and you walk in there, there'll be a whole wall, an entire wall dedicated to, quote, unquote, fat burners. There will be. There'll be 50 bottles on that wall. And there's not an ingredient in there that actually burns fat.

[Brent]

It's called your two feet.

[Tyler]

Those are fat burners.

[Brent]

Hold on, we're not recording.

[Scott Howell]

Want to buy a raffle?

[Brent]

Do you want to buy a shirt to support military dancing? People want to see their sausage get made.

[Scott Howell]

An appropriate level of inappropriateness. Something happens in my family tonight. The Delta horse isn't. Isn't coming to rescue my. My family, my kids, like it is. First responders are going to save my. My family.

[Brent]

They want the culture to be down. They want people to not want to be cops. And the people that do want to be cops are now walking into the job scared to do the job.

[Scott Howell]

I'm going to try to act like it didn't happen, although we. We all know it did.

[Tyler]

JV team for life.

[Brent]

Have you ever linked up with a guy? Shots fired?

[Tyler]

No. Well, just over on Instagram briefly, but I know I'm familiar with the podcast.

[Brent]

Yeah, they're super cool dudes.

[Tyler]

That's what I hear.

[Brent]

That's where they're in Northern California flu.

[Tyler]

They're in, like, the sack area.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Which isn't too far. That's like three hours from us.

[Scott Howell]

That's short for Sacramento.

[Brent]

He's got it.

[Tyler]

Well done.

[Scott Howell]

Well, we just got done talking about nut sacks, so we don't want to confuse you.

[Tyler]

That was part of that joke. Or did I walk in? What did I walk into?

[Scott Howell]

Testicular cancer.

[Tyler]

What did I walk into? Discussion.

[Scott Howell]

It was about testicular cancer.

[Tyler]

Socks nonetheless.

[Scott Howell]

Sex nonetheless.

[Tyler]

A lot of sax.

[Brent]

Y'all ready?

[Tyler]

I would expect nothing less from the antihero. Something.

[Scott Howell]

Oh, El was gonna ask. Well, when you were recording at shot show, what was. What was the most recordings you did? And did you do like three recordings in one day?

[Tyler]

I've done three in one day there. I did not.

[Scott Howell]

I'm on my second and I'm done.

[Tyler]

We did. We did form one day on Monday that week. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was. It was. It was rough. They were. A couple of them were a little quicker, but it was rough. I can do three, but by the time I get to end of three. Yeah. Like, do you have the same energy, right.

[Scott Howell]

And focus? Yeah. Yeah.

[Tyler]

And the answer to that is no. It's a little bit of a struggle.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah. Now we can do. It's not bad doing two, being a recorded and a live because the live is so much different than the recording. Wakes you up. Yeah. You don't have to wake up for it. Yeah. So don't put us to sleep.

[Tyler]

Different feel. Different feel.

[Scott Howell]

Ultrona, no pressure. You going to go there? You know, pressure's on.

[Brent]

It's on me. The camera's on me.

[Tyler]

Oh, I got to my do. It's early.

[Scott Howell]

All right, let's do it.

[Brent]

All right, you guys ready?

[Scott Howell]

Did. We're good on. On the recording, everything.

[Tyler]

We're good.

[Brent]

Br.

[Tyler]

Sweet.

[Brent]

Welcome back to the Anti Hero podcast. Part delta force, part street cop. All truth. I'm Tyler, owner of Refractive Wolf Apparel. Use promo code Anti Hero and get yourself 15% off. The best in outsider culture. Graphic tees, stickers, hats, flags, ranger panties, zip up hoodies and beanies.

[Scott Howell]

We'll edit that out. I know, I. You always scare me when I like. We'll edit that out because like 5050 you will sometimes I need.

[Brent]

No, seriously, edit that out.

[Scott Howell]

We need like a code. Oh, here we go. I'm back. And I'm Brent Tucker, owner of First Responder Coffee Company and First Responder Cigar Company. Use code FRCC15. That's FRCC15. To get 15% off the world's best coffee and cigars.

[Brent]

And this episode is brought to you by Human Performance. Trt. Weight loss, ketamine and peptides. That's not what it's really called. It's just human performance. But that's all the things they offer. Go to HPTRT.com and get yourself 20% off when you use promo code Hero. So we use testosterone. It's a whole. The whole reason why this podcast exists is because of testosterone in some way, shape or form, whether or not be because we're on it, or a lot of the people that support us and listen to us are also advocates of dudes with high testosterone. So go to hptrt.com tell them anti hero sent you by using the promo code antihero and get 20% off.

[Scott Howell]

Don't forget our Thursday night live episodes. Every Thursday night at 8pm Eastern time, we have the Thursday night we get interactions with the audience via super chats. It's a very different environment. It's a, it's a very laid back, It's a, it's a really good time. So if you guys watch our recorded episode episodes, tune in to our Thursday night lives, you'll be hooked. And don't forget our Patreon. Our Patreon is 5 and $10, two different tiers, a lot of extra content, a lot of extra discounts. Giveaway, several hundred dollars a month. Give. Absolutely. Best deal in the market. Please go check out our Patreon and support us that way.

[Brent]

One of something that I notice about us is that we're pretty good, like, we're pretty good at doing things under pressure. Like with our jobs and the military and law enforcement and stuff. Like working under pressure is part of the job. You learn to do that. But when one of us starts fucking up and we're recording something and then every, and then everybody's looking at you, that's the worst. We'll go cut a commercial and we'll be starting off like we're going to cut this promo. And as soon as somebody fucks up, it's like, no, redo it, redo it, redo it.

[Scott Howell]

Too many to be messed up the way we do.

[Tyler]

114.

[Brent]

Yeah, you wouldn't get there.

[Tyler]

I mean, I probably listened to it at least that intro probably a hundred times in some shape or form. It's cool to hear it in person.

[Scott Howell]

And with us today, we have Scott Howell, host of the Iron Sight, Iron Sights podcast, which I've, I've been on. Thank you for having me. And the CEO of Red Dot Fitness brings over 25 years of experience in the health and fitness industry. Scott, thank you so much for flying out from lovely California. I said that with a straight face. You don't know how I meant that.

[Tyler]

I'll sit here and take long pauses before I answer, but I'm honored to be here. Thanks for having me.

[Scott Howell]

I'm looking forward to this. I know we, you know, there's always like the vets and you know, the combat stuff and first responders and law enforcement and firefighter and. But they, everything ties back together, you know, of, of those, of those fields, which is fitness, you know, and, and for you, for those other fields, I see this kind of loosely. Some people, some people, it is their priority, but it's a common denominator to say the least of all. What I'm saying is it may not be their priority, but maybe shooting is, but it's high on their list. And it's. And that it's a common denominator for you. It is your priority because it's all you do. Obviously, it's what you're good at. No homo. Can we say that? Yeah, you can say that.

[Brent]

Trump's in office. You can say that.

[Scott Howell]

So I'm really looking forward to this episode and having you on so we can talk specifically a little bit about your story, actually, and fitness. So thanks for coming on.

[Tyler]

Oh, man. Guys, I'm stoked to be here. Thanks for having me. I'm a huge fan of the show. And so sitting here in the chair, it feels a little weird being on. Being on this end of the microphone. Usually I'm the one asking the questions.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So we will. We will see how this goes. We'll see. I'll do my best here.

[Scott Howell]

I'll usually. Sometimes it goes one or two ways, I feel like. And it just goes really good. Or some people don't do a good job of coming out of the host seat. Oh, like they just, like, become the host on someone else's show asking us questions. No, it's not. They ask. They don't know.

[Tyler]

It's interesting. Like, I've had. I've had people sitting in the chair where, you know, they have, like a personality on, you know, on whatever it is, social media, and you sit them in the chair and they're like. I don't want to say they're a different person, but there's a different thing coming out of them, and it takes some work to actually pull it out. And I have been in a situation where I had somebody asking me more questions than I was asking them. I had to gain control of that real fast. Yeah. But every now.

[Scott Howell]

And this is my show.

[Tyler]

This is my show. I'll ask the questions around here.

[Scott Howell]

We don't get it very often, everybody. Every now and again, we'll have a guest ask us a question. And some and most. I'm actually going to appreciate it. I'm like, okay. Like, that's. That's different. I like being usually. Yeah, but it's usually well placed when it happens.

[Tyler]

Yeah. I mean, I always have lots of questions. That's kind of what the show is. I'll try to refrain.

[Brent]

Do you ever have somebody that just. I don't want to say they lock up, but when the cameras turn on and they just go, yes. You're like, whoa, hey, where'd you go?

[Tyler]

So, like, when we walked in here today, I was just kind of casual and cool, and we, like, do like a Little bit of a warm up. You know, just get people kind of in the groove. Tell me what's about to happen. Like, here's what's going to happen. We're going to sit down, there's going to be lights and cameras, you know, we'll sound check and whatever. And things are going good. Then you ask them and you tell them. Yeah, I'm just going to have you kind of go through the Reader's Digest version or whatever, your, you know, your little background, give us your little bio or whatever. And it, there's a. You ask them, they're like, yeah, okay, cool, that'll be easy. And then there's a pause and then they stumble and bumble and you got to kind of clean it up. That.

[Brent]

Or they won't talk about themselves.

[Tyler]

That's. Yeah.

[Brent]

I mean, you're like, you're the guy, you're the star of the show.

[Scott Howell]

I don't think we've ever had that. We've. But we have had people. It sounds, I mean, I know it sounds odd like you're here to talk about yourself.

[Tyler]

They're modest.

[Scott Howell]

It's the people who talk too much. There's not like, like you're just, at some point you're just going to have to put a, a bow on it and, you know, we're going to move on. Land that plane.

[Tyler]

Well, no, even when you sat down in my chair, you know, when I, when you were on the show not too long ago, the first thing you said was we were talking about myself.

[Scott Howell]

So I'll never, it'll never feel like.

[Tyler]

A little weird, but I'm open book, so anything goes.

[Scott Howell]

All right, well, let's you. And you're here with your wife?

[Tyler]

Yeah, that's C.C. my better half. She's my partner in crime, partner in life, partner in business. So partner in all the escapades.

[Scott Howell]

You're already off to, to a, to a good start here. You're a fit man. You're married to the opposite gender, but you're so, but being from California, like these are all things, you know, that, you know, I take indicators, if you will. And so let's talk, let's talk about California.

[Tyler]

All right.

[Scott Howell]

We joked about that a little bit before the show, but not everyone, and I'm not the California expert. I know enough to be dangerous. But now I've been to several places of California, but I do think it's an interesting to talk about. And if people don't travel very much, they don't really know about California. And this isn't my pitch to make everyone love California. Make, make them realize, no, California is great politically, they're a dumpster fire. But agreed, that's. But that's not the whole story of California.

[Tyler]

That is also true.

[Scott Howell]

Tell me a little bit about California. You want people to know about California?

[Tyler]

Yeah, it's obviously what you see and how I understand how it's perceived. I'm acutely aware of that. And a lot of what, you know, people think about it is true. But there's a lot there that I think people are misunderstood on California. I basically born and raised in California. I have moved around a little bit as a kid and when I say a kid from like 5 years old to 8 years old. So I was on the east coast for a minute. I was actually in Utah for a little while. My dad moved us a little bit.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Tyler]

He was an engineer and working for a big missiles and space company and it kind of popped us around a little bit. So I had some experiences outside, but I just turned 50 and I've spent basically, you know, 45 of those years in California. So I've seen a lot of places. I've lived all over the place I lived in. I currently live in the Bay Area, but I've lived in Los Angeles. I've lived in the Central Valley, which most people are completely disconnected from and don't really understand, and traveled all over. So I've seen a lot of it.

[Scott Howell]

When you say the Bay Area, is that San Francisco Bay?

[Tyler]

So San Francisco Bay Area, which consists of eight total counties that go through there and the ones people are most familiar with, you're going to talk about San Francisco, right? San Francisco proper, which is actually very small. I think it's like seven miles by seven miles.

[Scott Howell]

Oh really?

[Tyler]

The amount of impact that that makes on things politically and not only in that in our state, but outside is pretty impressive is the word I would use. And then you've got, you know, on the other side of the Bay you have cities like Oakland and lesser known cities that are also super, I would say, have a large impact as an example, like Fremont. Fremont. People probably never even heard of that. That's where Tesla is. That's.

[Scott Howell]

Oh really?

[Tyler]

That's.

[Brent]

I think that's the reason why I've heard of Fremont.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Brent]

Tesla.

[Tyler]

So when you think about that, and then you have, you know, in the South Bay you have. It's the Silicon Valley that really exists down there. And you have San Jose and yeah. Cupertino Apple. Right. You've got Los Altos and Menlo Park. Menlo park is probably like the, the richest soil on the west coast with in terms of like real estate and venture capitalism and things like that. So in that sense it's a bit diverse. Right. But it isn't really.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah. You may or may not know just because how close it is vicinity wise. But didn't Tesla pull out of California or. Not completely.

[Tyler]

They're not completely out, but yeah, no, they moved to Texas. There's Texas. They're also in Nevada and Reno.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah. For basically tax. Tax reasons.

[Tyler]

Essentially, yes. Same with a lot of other places. Is it Salesforce or. I think that moved out of San Francisco during kind of the COVID period there over about two years. Tons of. We were just reading about that actually and it really has to do with all the tax implications. There's no corporate tax there. Wow. Or the corporate tax is a, is a very small percentage compared to obviously what you pay in California.

[Brent]

You know, it's got to be bad when you uproot your entire billion dollar company that. Can you imagine how expensive that is?

[Tyler]

Well, like Apple moved to Austin, right. There's a. There's. Or Microsoft moved to Austin. There's a. Not moved out. But there's large. They have large facilities there that, that we know where they're doing business. So it's, it's even tougher for those business. I mean it's just. That's a, that's dollars and cents. It's a financial move.

[Scott Howell]

And there's. I read an article a while ago about, and initially when I saw the article about dividing up California, they talked about, if I remember the article right, I actually think they talked about dividing California and parts of Oregon into three or five different states.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I've heard that.

[Scott Howell]

And so, and one was called like Jefferson State. They're like. And they've, they've proposed these bills before, like haven't gone anywhere of course. And I thought it was kind of a, it was enough to get my attention, but I didn't think much about it. So I read the article but by the time I was done reading the article I was like, hold on. These guys at least have some sort of, of a case here, which is to break it down, I'll leave Oregon out of this. We'll just talk about the, the California piece which you already touched on is this Northern California and Southern California, just to generalize are two, are wildly two different states. Northern California is very conservative. Southern California is very liberal. And essentially Northern Californians their tax money and you know, and the laws they abide by. And the political landscape is all dictated by Southern California. And so they're essentially saying, we have no say in our own. We have no true representation in our state and our government, so they want to secede from it. And I was like, well, that's. That's a really good point to have.

[Brent]

Last time when they. They tax people with that.

[Scott Howell]

They weren't represented, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Tyler]

Over tea.

[Scott Howell]

So again, that's. You're from California. Is that, is that, is there a sentiment there or at least a case?

[Tyler]

I would agree with that to some extent. I think Northern California and Southern California are very different, but at the same time, it's still California. So I'm usually careful about when I talk about this stuff because it's still part of the United States. So we hear people all the time going, that place just needs to fall off into the ocean and, you know, whatever else. And I understand that sentiment, but at the same time, like, it's the United States and the things that happen in California, you know, and when we think of them more from, like, a negative perspective, you know, like kind of what happens with politics and policy and legislation, it trickles over. It's cancerous. Ask Oregon. Ask the people in Oregon, Ask the people in Washington, even ask some of the people in Nevada, as it crosses over the lines there. So it is. That is very true in terms of being different, in terms of, like, how that's been influenced. When you look at Northern California versus Southern California, this is my take on it, particularly in the Bay Area. So into politics in terms of the red and the blue line, you have Sacramento, which is where the politics really happen, like they're actually executed. That's where the state capitol is, which is in the north Central Valley of California. Then you have the Bay Area, and then you have Los Angeles. And those areas primarily dictate what happens from, like, a policy or legislation perspective. It's not fair to the rest of California, which is like if you, if you got on an airplane and flew 10 air miles outside of the Silicon Valley, you're going to be pretty exposed. And it's about as red as it gets. Yeah, you're talking about people that own property, own land, that have been there for a long time, they own. You know, they're business owners that are farmers, they're ranchers, things like that. And they think very differently. But it's all what they have to abide by, or what we have to abide by is very much influenced by what's happening in the city. The thing That I would say about Northern California, particularly now, when you look at things like home prices in California, how out of line that is. I would say this. I think it's the home values have been artificially inflated over a very long period of time. When you look at the history of it, I don't even think it's that long. Let's call it the last 25 years. Because primarily tech businesses that are there and what tech ends up bringing in is people from the outside. So there's not a really strong sense of community.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Which is the interesting part. We start talking about diversity. It's not really that diverse. I mean, yes, if you look at things phenotypically like where are these people from, are they Asian, are they East Indian, you know, are they Latino, you know that, that kind of stuff. Oh yeah, you're going to see a good mixture of stuff. They all vote the same, they all think the same, they all work for the same companies that all drive the same fucking cars.

[Brent]

Not true diversity.

[Tyler]

It's not really that diverse. I mean, what are we really talking about there? So going back to the. The artificially inflated home values that comes from the money that gets paid by these huge corporations, which then what that ends up doing is pushing people out that were maybe born and raised there, they can't live there anymore. And how does that impact things? Well, it impacts the schools, particularly the public schools. The public school system in Northern California in general, but in Northern California is a disaster, total disaster. So then you have these private schools that. These folks that make way too much money for my opinion, not contributing anything to society. Right. Then they end up pulling their kids out of school, which then runs down the school systems, which then makes the neighborhoods unappealing. And then that changes things over time. And ultimately you have a large population of people that are disenfranchised and ultimately want to leave. And that's what we saw happen probably in the last four or five years.

[Brent]

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[Scott Howell]

Cool.

[Brent]

They have the patented, they have the patented cooling technology.

[Scott Howell]

Nailed it. Nailed it.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Nailed it.

[Brent]

Goodsbed.com Android 50% off.

[Scott Howell]

Tyler, how many critical incidents do you think we've covered so far in this podcast, man?

[Brent]

At least five, six.

[Scott Howell]

And, and they're not going to stop. You know, there's you, you cannot stop them all. So they're going to happen. And you really have, you know, two charters of that. Obviously one is to stop them from happening, but since you can't stop them all from happening, you owe it to the people that you protect and depend on you to react to those situations and in the most effective and efficient manner. And right now, really, whether, you know, you're a fire department, ems, law enforcement, you're stuck with essentially radios.

[Brent]

And Apollo is the best way to manage resources during these events because it's designed by first responders for first responders.

[Scott Howell]

It gives first responders a common operating picture which allows them to see where everybody is in real time, overlaid onto a map to see where they are. You can drop pinpoints and let them know where they need to go. And without constant talking on the radio, everybody knows where the incident is, where it's happening and where they need to be.

[Brent]

Apollo is an app based application. This is just download and go.

[Scott Howell]

It's an app and so it works with androids, it works with iPhones.

[Brent]

Apollo makes sure on the back end everything works and you can just plug and go. They handle all the licensing, all the encryption compliance, all the security. It's all handled by Apollo. It's crucial to know where everyone is and what they are doing in order to effectively control chaos in one of these, either natural disasters or shootings or anything like that.

[Scott Howell]

So if you want to learn more about Apollo, scan the QR code and ensure your department is ready to react to any crisis in its most effective and efficient manner possible.

[Tyler]

JV Team for life.

[Scott Howell]

You know, the irony of that, the first thing I thought of when you're talking about, we'll just call them those types of people, you know what I mean? Yeah. Are the same type of people that call, you know, make stolen land, you know, don't, don't respect. What do you think your, what do you, what is, what do you think it's called when someone, an outsider comes in and forces out the locals one way or another, whether it be by violence, whether it be, whether by, you know, culturally, culturally forcing them out or through, you know, you raising up home prices, you would be the first one to fight against that. If that was happening in Africa, you.

[Tyler]

Know, you'd be sending money over there.

[Scott Howell]

Oh, yeah, they'd be protesting about it. Be all over their Facebook page, burning channel. But when they do it now, all of a sudden they're. I guess they're a little bit more capitalistic in their way of life than they are. They're. They're thinking, yeah, what's the.

[Tyler]

What's the saying? Like, what's good for me, not good for the. Or something like that saying goes.

[Scott Howell]

Absolutely.

[Tyler]

Yeah. It's an interesting place. But going back to the. Dividing it up into kind of five different states or whatever it is, like, it could be done because if you go across the Golden Gate Bridge and you go, you know, let's call it 50 miles above there, and then everything up to, like, the Oregon border, it's very different. I mean, you're talking about farmers, ranchers. It's very rural out there, and they think very differently. Same with the Central Valley. The Central Valley, by and large, is very conservative. Very about. And I would say this fiscally conservative, you know, as well as conservative in their values about the family, home, religion, that kind of stuff.

[Scott Howell]

So I say this as a half joke, and I'm. But also. Which means I'm half serious about this. The only way I would be for that. Let's say I am for it, because I am. So break it up. And of course, it'll never happen because the Democrats will never let the power of. Of the. The presidential delegates get split, you know, get split up. Like, you think about that. If California were to do that, you may never see a Democratic president for the rest of your life.

[Tyler]

What's. What. Sorry, Cece, what are the electoral votes that the California has? It's like 42 electoral votes.

[Scott Howell]

And. And they all just like Texas and. And the. And before the election starts, they just already give the. The electoral votes to the Democratic Party from California. Same with Texas, because they're just. It's.

[Tyler]

They already know.

[Scott Howell]

Sure fire thing.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

But the reason why I wouldn't let it just be that, because it would mess with our 50 stars on our floor.

[Tyler]

100.

[Scott Howell]

I can't have that. So I got thinking about that. I was like, so what's your answer? And my answer is, hey, all these little New England states that are the size of counties, if we split up California, some of you little New England states are going to have to meld together so we can keep 50.

[Brent]

Just call it New England for our flag.

[Tyler]

Yeah, get that yeah, yeah, just. It makes sense. It's solid logic, man.

[Scott Howell]

It is. You're not messing. There will be no 51st.

[Brent]

They have a say in it.

[Scott Howell]

No, it's for the.

[Brent]

No.

[Scott Howell]

We will always stay at 50. We just have to figure out how to.

[Tyler]

New England, Rhode island, like New York, they might have something to say about that.

[Brent]

Hundreds of thousands and millions of people being slaughtered in the Civil War only.

[Scott Howell]

So we can keep 50.

[Tyler]

There's a little history there, man.

[Scott Howell]

Again, I said, nick, I'm very serious about that. Like, we cannot. The stars have to represent the states. But, but you 51, you can't do 51 or 52. Don't you mess with my flag.

[Brent]

They would have to put them in their own little, like, portion of the flag. Like, kind of like the new stars.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, I don't like it.

[Tyler]

What happens if we make Canada the 51st state? Like, what do we do then?

[Scott Howell]

New England's gonna have. They're gonna have to. Have to go ahead and. Go ahead now and. And pick the. Pick the state you want to partner up with.

[Tyler]

We're talking a whole get ugly real fast.

[Brent]

Let's see how that gun control works.

[Tyler]

Yeah, exactly.

[Scott Howell]

Let's get on the fitness part of it. How did you know. How old were you and how'd you get into the. Into fit? Not necessarily the industry, but just in the fitness in general. It's a high school thing. In your 20s.

[Tyler]

Yeah, no, I mean, I got fitness and being healthy and just living a healthy lifestyle was always something that my. My folks always instilled in me and my little brother since we were little kids. I mean, I think at 5, I was on the first soccer team that I was on. Had no idea what we were doing. But that's. That's what it is, right? You go out there, you start playing. And was always involved in something my parents were very good about. Getting us involved in activities. Kept us out of trouble. Taught us a lot of lessons, a lot of values, you know, that we pulled away from that leadership stuff, all kinds of things, and that just followed us through. But I think the tipping point for me in terms of really being turned on to it was the presidential physical fitness testing that went on in junior high.

[Scott Howell]

Do they still do that?

[Brent]

I don't think so.

[Tyler]

Nope. California led the charge on that. So in fact, our current illustrious governor there was part of that. Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So at least there. I don't know how it worked through the rest of the United States, but, you know, part of that test was doing the pull up Test.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Tyler]

Which then turned into the hang and.

[Brent]

Then flex arm hang.

[Tyler]

Ultimately it's gone.

[Brent]

That was when I was in school.

[Tyler]

Yeah. So I think I was in, I was in eighth grade and we, they, they took the boys and the girls classes. Right. You had PE every day back then. You don't have PE every day now. It's not even compulsory in a lot of places. You go out there and they line them up, they have pull up bars out in the, you know, in the yard, you know, whatever. So you had two lines in jail.

[Scott Howell]

I mean, boys in the garbage.

[Tyler]

Yeah, more or less. It felt like that when I was in, you know, whatever, 12 years old, 13 years old. But you know, you have to basically they line everybody up and each person hangs from the bar and they got to do pull ups and.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So there's a bunch of people in front of me and I was watching them do it, doing, doing the pull ups. And some kids could and some kids couldn't.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

I don't know what I was thinking. I just figured I just go up and pull myself up a couple times and jump down past the test. But I got up there hung from that bar and I could fucking move. And the girl next to me did like five pull ups and I felt I came down off that bar and I was mortified. Yeah, yeah, mortified. And probably one of the best lessons I ever got started right there. Because I go, I, this has to, I have to fix this. There's a problem here, right. And it wasn't that the girl could do it and I wasn't, so to speak, it was just that I couldn't do the thing that I thought I could be able to do and clearly lots of other people could.

[Scott Howell]

Right.

[Brent]

The girl just drove it home.

[Tyler]

She, she put the pin in it right for me. Right. So at the same time we lived across the street from what was a vacant lot and the city turned it into a park and they used to put these like parkours, you know, in the park where you have all the exercise stations or whatever. Well, they put the pull up bar right across the street from us and it had gone in right about the same time. So I went home and I went out to that bar and I just started practicing pull ups all the time. By the time, by the time I got to high school and my midway through my freshman year was when I started wrestling, nobody could do more pull ups than me. And, and so the start was.

[Scott Howell]

Give me a number.

[Tyler]

What's that?

[Scott Howell]

Give me a number.

[Tyler]

I could do 20 pull ups. When I was, you know, 14, 13 years. What are you, a freshman? 13 years old or whatever?

[Scott Howell]

Damn, 20 is always good.

[Tyler]

It didn't start that way. I went into my freshman year 150 pounds. I came out at 175 pounds. Really? Yeah. That's when the weightlifting started. No, it was all good. I was growing up, I was growing, I was maturing a little bit, but I hit the weights like I was in the weight room every day. But it kind of started for me there, just learning that, like, you can make changes if you follow a process to doing the change. And I like the way it made me feel. I liked being able to do more than somebody else could. And it also translated for me as an athlete because I played football, I was on the wrestling team, I was, you know, on the track and field team. And so it just kind of spawned there. Yeah, that's where it started.

[Scott Howell]

I don't think. It's like this story isn't to deter any young, young person from working out, but when, when you're young. And for me, it was like 15, 16, 17. I was a late bloomer and my brother was on the high school weightlifting team and could put on weight what seemed like at will, you know, and at. Do you remember this? At 15, 16, 7. We had a. We had a home gym and I. And I, I worked out every night and I had, I had an older brother who's putting on weight to say, hey, like, you know, what are you doing? Like, how you put on weight? And I would eat potatoes, I would drink a gallon of milk, I'd eat straight out of the, you know, the peanut butter jar, eat as much as I could, which scientifically makes no sense. Like how you putting in 5,000 calories a day and not putting on a pound. And I'm telling you, I didn't put on a pound. That's a little bit of a dramatic statement. I got a little stronger, I got a little bigger, but I did. My body would not, you know, react to weightlifting the way all my friends did. Now, again, this isn't me to like, well, it did me no good. Don't do it. I was super glad I did it. I learned a lot. And eventually my body did react to weightlifting. Yeah. And I had a good base and I knew what I was doing and it responded very well at one point. But there's something weird about being a young man and wanting it so bad. And just some people. Yeah, either your body wants you to do it or your body doesn't.

[Tyler]

So There's a side story to that. And then my dad got heavily involved, was always fit. And he got into weightlifting after he got out of the service. But he was into like gymnastics. He grew up very poor, so he was never involved in any like real organized sports. Parents couldn't afford to do that. The schools that he went to, didn't really give them give him a huge opportunity, but he was very fit. Came out like more like a gymnast. He's. He'd go down, lived in Venice Beach. He would go down to the beach there. For people who are familiar, I don't even know if I don't think those apparatus is there anymore because almost would set up, you know, camp right there, probably, you know, whatever, because the half. It's a half built structure for him already or whatever. But then he got into weightlifting. He actually worked for Jack lalanne, if you know who that is. Jack lalanne is an icon in the fitness industry. He was like the guy back in the 60s who could do 100 push ups on demand, 100 pull ups on demand kind of guy. He was kind of a funky, enigmatic, you know, quirky dude. Would run around in these funky tracksuits or like jumpsuits, like onesie kind of things or where everybody was. He had a little TV show or whatever. My dad, he had gyms all through Southern California. My dad actually worked for him a little while ago. He was going to school, he went to night school to get his graduate degree, his undergraduate and his graduate degree. But the point of that was, is very early, he already had weights around and so I was always interested in that. He was in martial arts for a while, so there was that background too. But going back to the eating and gaining weight. My dad grew up in the gym when it was at the same time when he was in the gym that guys like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Lou Ferrigno and guys were working out and he would work out near those guys and around those guys and learn that you got to eat to get big. And so we had Joe Weider. For people that remember that guy, we had Joe Weider protein powder at the house. And my dad would build, quote, unquote protein shakes. Man, they had all kinds of shit in them.

[Brent]

And back when they didn't taste good.

[Tyler]

Either, no, they were.

[Scott Howell]

Oh, they were so bad.

[Tyler]

But I started, I would start every day with my breakfast was two scoops of vanilla or chocolate ice cream. Like two cups of like whole milk, right? Two scoops of Joe Weider's protein powder with whatever else I was putting in there and that's how I started my day. So I was already off as, you know, a 1500 calorie start for the day, hence the 25 pounds that I, you know, I was able to put on my freshman year. Yeah. So that's kind of, that's where it started. But again, those are, those are the influences that I had and kind of learned through process or, you know, experience that how it worked for me.

[Scott Howell]

Man, if I could, I'm so bad at the names, but if you can think of his name, you'd know exactly who it is. But I was watching a bodybuilder years ago give, give advice and it's like, hey, like, weightlifting and fitness is for everyone. But if, if you're, if you're a young man and you want to get serious about this, I, I'm going to get the, the numbers wrong a little bit. But he basically said if you don't put, if you don't put on 15, 20 pounds of muscle in one year, you're not going to be a bodybuilder.

[Tyler]

And as a, as a, as a young guy.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, yeah. And general statement, I'm sure you could ask some more questions. And he drilled down on that and, but I've always said this one, I think he's absolutely right about that. I think everyone has this, this way I describe it, a genetic mold. Like you have a genetic mold that, that you have. And some people are just, I'm not saying it's, it's exactly, you know, how you're going to be the rest of your life, but some people are predispositioned to be lean. Some people are predispositioned to carry more weight. And if you're one of those guys that are just, you know, predispositioned to, let's say whatever it is, a higher, you know, metabolic rate. You're just, you're not going to be a bodybuilder. That doesn't mean you can't, you can't move that, that needle 10%, 20%, you know, whatever it is. But that genetic mold is, you know, is your baseline hard coded? Yeah, it's hard coded.

[Tyler]

There's, there's a lot of truth to that. There's, there's what you got, you know, from a DNA perspective and how that works into your, you know, how you're built physically. And then there's how you express it and the steps that you take along the way. And some people get lucky, right. And can express it really well because they get, you know, enthusiastic about fitness, lifting weights, wherever, the whole bodybuilding thing. I certainly got bit by that bug. My dad had been. We had old, you know, bodybuilding magazines laying around the house. Like this is before the Internet. So we were. I'd go down every month to the 711 that's right around the corner and buy Muscle and Fiction magazine or, you know, Flex or whatever else as those things were coming out and you'd, you would try and learn what you could from those guys. But that was interesting then because that was a time where bodybuilding got really popularized and that's how people started to kind of pick and choose these camps of what fitness is and how they would define what fit actually is. So to your point, like, you know, a young man would see the big muscular guy and go, that's what I want to look like. You think you're going to get girls with that or he's going to make you feel more confident. And in some cases maybe that's true. But there were so many other things that people can do that they are, that are hard coded for from like a genetic perspective and be really good at running or swimming or cycling or bodybuilding or whatever. But how you're introduced to it and the motivations you have for going down that road, I think is what's where people go wrong in terms of like, use what you got, figure out how to be really good.

[Brent]

You guys believe in the ectomorph, mesomorph endomorph theory?

[Tyler]

Yeah, I think that's kind of what he was talking about. I think you are genetically predisposition there to some extent. And it's not that you can't modify that. Yeah. It's the steps or approaches that you take.

[Brent]

It's like the size engines in your car is not going to change. So you can make it faster all you want, but at the end of.

[Tyler]

The day, and there's process to that.

[Scott Howell]

I mean, here's a great. You know, we talk about extremes, you know, looking at extremes, you know, and outliers. Sometimes that's a bad argument for things, but sometimes it does, it does show that it's there. Let's talk about long distance African runners. They are, you know, they are genetically best in the world predisposed to that. And those same people, not this generation or the next generation, ain't looking too good to win Mr. Olympia.

[Tyler]

Nope.

[Scott Howell]

It's just not in their cards.

[Tyler]

Correct.

[Scott Howell]

But that being said, that's the great thing about fitness of sorts, is that fitness isn't just bodybuilding and fitness isn't long distance running.

[Tyler]

Correct.

[Scott Howell]

Somebody, there's something you are a little better at than you are at other things. And like anything else, what you enjoy is something you'll, you'll, you'll do more of. Yeah, more than, more than likely. Except for you. There's two, there's two sides of that. You probably didn't do pull ups because you enjoyed them. Sometimes, sometimes the opposite of that is true. Like, you do it just because you're not good at it. But if find what you're good at that you enjoy, push hard on that. But I always said, but don't ignore the other things.

[Tyler]

Correct? Yeah.

[Brent]

If you do, I always said if you do, if you can do two a day or every now and again, mix them up, like, do the one that you love and then do something that you don't like because that's gonna be the one that keeps you in shape.

[Tyler]

Yeah, we always encouraging people, that's diversity. Yeah. Do the exercise that you, you want to do that you enjoy doing. That's a great place to start. The other thing is, like I said, like, don't define it by. Fitness is not your deadlift. Fitness is not marathons. Fitness is not swimming. Fitness is a lot of things and encompasses a lot of things. And I think people pigeonhole themselves into something that probably they're not very good at because they think that's the thing they need to do in order to get a certain result. And that's what we spend most of our day trying to help people with, is understand how to get some kind of result. But what's really important and why, more importantly, why are you doing this? Yeah, like, what's getting you out of bed every day?

[Scott Howell]

I don't know why. Speaking of pull ups, that's the, the. I feel like there's this mentality in pull ups that people don't apply anywhere else. And they, you know, these complain to me in the gym, see me do a lot of pull ups, and they'll be like, man, you know, I'm, I'm not good at pull ups. I've never been good at pull ups. And so I say, well, how often do you do pull ups? They're like, well, well, I don't. Well, that's why you're not good at pull ups. I don't know why pull ups is the only thing in fitness where people, like, aren't good at it when they start and they're just like, well, I'm not good at pull ups. Did you, did you throw 315 on the bench, not do it and be like, well, I'm not good at the bench. It's the same everybody, every guy worked their way up in the squat rack and in the bench rack. But if they're not good at pull ups right off the bat, well, they're just not good at pull up pull ups. Like it's insanity.

[Tyler]

It is insanity. There's so many ways around that to get better at pull ups. Like I said, I wasn't good at them at the start. So what did I have to do? I had to jump up to the bar and pull my, through the jump, pull my, my chin over the bar, right. And then slowly lower myself so it wasn't falling off. Yeah, that was the process of getting better. Because you have what you have. Like you weigh what you weigh.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Right. So whatever that is, whatever that is, that's where you're starting. And obviously for a kid who's awkward and not fully developed and you know, his arms could be way longer than they, they're going to be for the rest of his life or whatever, like you figure it out. But yeah, like you do the bench press today and you expect to come and don't do it again for two months and you expect that when you come back you're going to be able to do more. That's stupid. Like, makes zero sense.

[Scott Howell]

I'm going to ask you what's probably an unfair question, right? But why? Why is it? Let's say because this is much more cut and dry. But in technology, there's been so much advances in the technology. We know it works in technology, we know it doesn't work on technology. It's kind of ones and zeros. It works or it doesn't. When it comes to fitness. Why, why are there so many fads? Why are there so many different things? Like why, you know, why don't we just accept that, you know, would it be high reps or a high weight or it has to be supersets or negatives or like, would everything that kind of like comes and goes. You would think when it, you know, eat. Here's another one. Eat six meals a day, it's better for you. They come back like, nope, just if you get everything out of three meals, three meals is just as good. Even six meals or the people that.

[Brent]

Defend one meal a day. There's science behind eating one meal a day.

[Scott Howell]

You can absorb all the why after as much in this current, you know, in the last, as much advancement there's been in just in humanity.

[Tyler]

Yeah, sure.

[Scott Howell]

What, why hasn't that come to like an agreement of like, we've been doing this for long enough, we have technology, we can document it, you know, we know it works, but it just, I don't think we've gotten a whole lot further than, than 50 years ago. And right or wrong.

[Tyler]

So here's the thing, the thing is, is there's always new things being discovered. The human body, human physiology is an amazing thing. The machine itself is amazingly adaptive. There's always being new things thrown at it. It's being tested in all kinds of different ways. So we learn new stuff about it. But here's the thing to that, to the point is that the experts, people that really understand this, there's, they have agreement. The fundamental stuff is known, like how to build muscle is known. How to improve your endurance is known. How to improve tissue quality is known. The reasons why it's so convoluted and it's so confusing for the general consumer or even not the general consumer, I would say the partly well informed consumer is because of money.

[Brent]

I was just about to say it's.

[Tyler]

Money every time, man. Like it's. People want to convolute it and make, give it some sexy shine or some new.

[Brent]

I give them my version of yours.

[Tyler]

Exactly. They have to be, because if I don't have an interesting story to tell or something like that, then we wind up, you know, then it's, it won't sell. And everybody needs this, you mentioned it before. Everybody needs fitness. It's a common denominator. So everybody at some level can relate to it, but whoever's selling it to you is trying to relate to you in a very specific way. And somewhere in there, man, what you have is, I have a lot of people that don't understand what it is that they're talking about. They know enough to be dangerous. That comment got used a little bit earlier and then that just gets perpetuated. And it comes from all these different camps too. Like we talked about bodybuilding. Bodybuilding has been awesome in terms of the advancement and the understanding of all this stuff, but at the same time is fuck people up pretty bad because most people are not bodybuilders. And again, like, what are we talking about here? We're talking about somebody that literally competes on stage as a professional, gets paid to do that or whatever, versus the person that goes to the gym every day and is building their body right, but is not an advanced, quote unquote, participant, athlete, competitor, whatever you want to define that. And they're using those methodologies at some point in their journey that are inappropriate for them. And when they're not getting the result that they think they should be getting, they go to somebody else and then go to somebody else and go to somebody else until somebody gives them the answer that they wanted. And then they buy that. Right. And then, well, somebody will buy this. That means somebody else will. And it just continually gets convoluted and this stuff gets perpetuated. So it is fairly known. I mean most of the stuff is fairly known. When you talk to the experts are the people that not only have an in depth knowledge, maybe from the institution, but also through that experientially working not just on themselves. That's the other thing. Somebody trying to sell you their solution and somebody else borrowing that solution as their own when it's not your solution. Like there's a lot of ways to do this, but fundamentally everything basically boils down to some very basic concepts. But they're very complex and with complexity things can get overly complicated.

[Brent]

Well, the money thing also there's the people that you're talking about that are constantly looking for their thing. The other ones are like, I want it easy. Like if I was like, you can have a six pack and eat a large pizza with my program, you're gonna go, I want that one. Or like Planet Fitness praying off of people that are lazy.

[Tyler]

It breaks down to like the human condition too there at some level it's like I paid for this, so I should get this result.

[Scott Howell]

Right, right.

[Tyler]

And that like there's so many different. This is that they can pay for. They'll just keep moving on and moving on. So it's the, it's the consumer's fault as much as it is the person that's selling it.

[Scott Howell]

And I think it has to do after you said about money when you're talking about magazines, I mean I remember at that age going to 7:11, I mean exactly what you said, going to 7:11, picking up muscle and fitness and thumb through the pages because the top of it said get massive arms, how to blast your biceps and 14 days and gain three inches. Like yeah, some like some crazy like thing like okay, you got me, let me read and see and see what you're doing now. Of course they're gonna have to tell you some like niche workout to do to do that. When at the end of the day the answer, and I'm gonna oversimplify it, but, but it is to some degree what I tell everyone. Eat clean, lift hard. Yeah, like there's smarter ways to do that, you know, as far as lifting. But in the day, eat clean, lift hard, and, and be patient and wait.

[Tyler]

All very true. So then there's nuance and all that, like, well, how much should I eat? And then of how much am I eating? How much protein do I really need? Right. And again, all those things are actually known. If somebody takes a step back and really starts to. Has a high level of self awareness, but also starts to self assess, like, where am I in this process? What are my limitations? Where am I trying to get to? What's my history look like? You know what, what, you know, what's realistic for me in terms of what can I really achieve here in a timeline that's realistic at the same time? So you're not wrong, but people are searching for like, okay, so if that's all I have to do, go back to the easy button, tell me the diet I have to have. Let me go rip that page out of the magazine. And I mean, the question I would ask is promised I wouldn't ask a bunch of questions, but tell me how what was being said in those magazines, what was being portrayed in that magazines is any fucking different than what you see right now when you open up Instagram.

[Brent]

It's just a different vehicle.

[Tyler]

It's the exact same thing.

[Scott Howell]

How old are you?

[Tyler]

I just turned 50 on Monday.

[Scott Howell]

50, yep. I think a bunch of listeners will be able to correlate with this. You're 50, you're a big man. How much you weigh?

[Tyler]

Probably about 240.

[Scott Howell]

240?

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

You don't lift. Maybe there's an assumption you don't lift the same way you do now that then you lifted when you were 25, 28, maybe even 35. Like back then. I lifted whatever I thought my tendons could hold. Exactly.

[Tyler]

Occasionally I make that mistake now, but I see where we were going with the question.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah. Do you, do you still do bench press? Straight bar bench press. You don't even do it.

[Tyler]

Nope.

[Scott Howell]

Why don't you do it?

[Tyler]

Because my shoulders at this stage are not in. It's not a great. So first off, I'm not married to that. Exercise is something that's going to give me a specific result.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Tyler]

There's many other ways for me to get loaded. Pressing if we want to. Loaded pushing if you want to call it that. My shoulders don't do well anymore. I have two torn labrums from doing exactly what you just said, among other things. Getting into some things I probably shouldn't have gotten into. Right. And have Some stuff that I'm dealing with. But no, I do not do it because I don't need to do it to maintain and. Or build any kind of muscle. And I'm not looking to build a ton of muscle. I'm 240 pounds. I'm too heavy. Like, I should be lighter. I'm working on getting the weight down. So, no, I don't lift the same amount of weight, and I certainly don't do the same exact exercise.

[Brent]

Nothing's better than a hammer strength day. Just hitting all that.

[Tyler]

Like, we just worked out before we came over here. We're out of town. Like, Cece and I always try to visit, like, out of town gyms. The first thing I go to is stuff that I don't have at our own gym.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Tyler]

Like, let me try something different today. And machines is something. We don't have a lot of machines. Mostly what we have is free weight. So I go and I mess around with the machines and stuff. Man, I'm already. I know I'm gonna be sore. Sore as hell tomorrow if I'm doing something different.

[Scott Howell]

Have. I don't half exaggeration, but there's a large port. Part of my workouts that I. That I do now is different then, and it's because I'm working around injuries.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

Like my. If. If I. If I do the. If I. If I go bench press 225 right now, give me two weeks, and my right shoulder will feel like it needs surgery again. And I probably should have got surgery on it, and I didn't. And I can. I can. But instead of getting surgery, I've learned how to work around it.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

And it's. It's so much.

[Tyler]

It's.

[Scott Howell]

It's just a little bit different. I can do inclined dumbbells, almost as. Almost as heavy as I want. And my right shoulder will never complain about that. And you know why? I don't know. But I listen to my body, and that's what I do. And that's how I try to end up getting the. The same. Getting a substitution around an injury. And these are things like guys are gonna have to deal with as they get older.

[Tyler]

100% going back to like you should. Like, doing what I do now at 50 is not the same as what I did at 25. And I have to be very careful when I say that. I don't mean like, I work out in fear or it's a danger zone all the time. But I know what my limitations are and I know the reasons I have the Issues I have, which is a thing like I. There's never a one size fits all to finding solutions for people, particularly when the injury side of things. But understand with that, what is it that you're feeling? Why is it getting like that? You know, you may have some very specific things that obviously I don't know about. But in making a few assumptions without making too many, what you just described is something again, going back to being relatable. I'm sure a ton of people listening to this within the audience can relate to a lot of dudes like, dude, I really want to get under the bench again because I remember the result it gave me when I was 25. So they're attached to that and go, I got to do heavy bench press and that guy over there can do more than me. And that's not okay. Going back to my pull up story story kind of thing. But as we get older, things change. Our activities, level level changes. I mean, the things that maybe you did in your career, the positions you were put in, the equipment you had to carry, the constant repetitive movement patterns that you may have involved in, set you up for what you tell me you're feeling. And without getting too far into the rabbit hole, because I could go on about this all day long. Mostly it has to do with shoulder mechanics for people and they have poor shoulder mechanics or they wind up with poor shoulder mechanics over time because they did too much of something or not enough of something else. And so what a lot of people probably should be focusing on is like what's actually going on on the backside and on the inside versus what's going on in the front side all the time. A lot of times that would clear things up for people. Not all the time. Some people have significant or acute orthopedic things that no amount of exercise is going to fix for you. But we deal with this all the time at the gym every single day. People kept shoulders, low backs, knees, but not as often as we deal with the low back, hip, right. And shoulder stuff. And it's because people just don't move as well or mechanically are not moving as efficiently as they could. And then they start to load that pattern up again. 225. You should expect exactly what you're getting.

[Brent]

Let me ask you a question. So like, kind of like tactical, we taught it last podcast. You said tactical athlete.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

Right.

[Brent]

And so like, I know a lot of my buddies are on the SWAT team here and they go to Virginia, I think, and they train with the FBI hrt.

[Tyler]

Yep.

[Brent]

They've adopted a program that they brought back down here and they work out and I'm watching their workout. I'm like doing like old people workouts, dude.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent]

And they're like, it's crushing my body. But it's, the results are amazing. And they're all leaving the whole weightlifting thing.

[Scott Howell]

All right, we can disagree on this. I don't know, I don't even know what you're gonna say but. And it's fine. Like that's, it's actually, I think disagreement is a good thing. That started entering special operations toward the end of my career. I actually hate it. And a lot of it is, is. And people are going to make fun of me for this, this archaic line of thinking. But a lot of has to do with the lawn. What they really focusing a little bit more on is the longevity of your career and performance. And what I found is they're bringing in these like new exercise, these new exercises. Like a one legged, you know, Romanian deadlift.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

And they're like, oh man, I'm, I'm. It's, it's crushing me. It's so hard.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

Because you've never done a one legged Romanian deadlift. Like that's why it's a new stimulus.

[Tyler]

It's.

[Scott Howell]

But it's just a different stimulus. And, and at the end of the day, I know I'm even going to say this and, and I get it. At the end of the day, depending everything's about like what is. And I'm sure you have the ask the same questions. What's your goal? Like what are you doing? Like work out to what, to what your end state is. And if you're on a SWAT team, I don't need you to be able to, you know, walk up a 10,000 foot mountain. Like in special operations, you're going to run from the Bearcat to the house. You're going to clear a structure. I don't need you to run five miles like I need you. I need you to sprint. I need your anaerobic to be high. And this is where the Neanderthal comes in. And I need you to be the biggest, strongest man in that house.

[Brent]

Bust down that door.

[Scott Howell]

That's what I need you to do. I need you to be the strongest, biggest man in that house. And so lift heavy. And guess what? Injuries are the byproduct of lifting heavy for a long time. And you're not, you're not going to be a SWAT guy forever. Like eventually you're going to get old. You're going to get off the team. But while you're on the team, lift heavy, lift hard, get the injuries. The injuries will eventually get you off the team. But guess what? You're not going to be a 48 year old guy doing swats job.

[Brent]

Suck it out.

[Scott Howell]

I know that sounds like the, like the, maybe the worst way of thinking, but it's how I feel.

[Tyler]

No, I don't think it's the worst way of thinking ever. So a couple points, couple things that stick out for me if you allow me. Yeah, no, give me some space here.

[Scott Howell]

Send it.

[Tyler]

First off, strength matters. 100% matters. It is the platform for all the things that you're going to try to express, right? Whether it's the sprinting, whether it's the capacity, your ability to do work over time, it's the power and the speed going back to the sprinting. But power would also be able to exert force right at a high velocity or a high rate. Punching, kicking, getting into that wrestling match inside that house or whatever and dominating another human being. Strength is right? That's what you're talking about, right? So I got you on my team. So let me go back. So let's go back a little bit. So what these guys are being taught now, the problem with it is it's happening too late in the process for them. What they're actually being taught is movement and how to move well. And that really is the basis for staying healthy, having longevity and being a performance athlete. So you look at operators or SWAT guys or whatever like they should be treated like performance athletes at the top level. They should get all that stuff. The problem is they get brought in after 15, 20 years of beating the hell out of them. And how did they get there? They got there from going all the way back to. In the beginning. I heard a little bit about your story and heard a lot of guys that have gone through the process of going through selection processes, whatever, and that is a battle of attrition, right? A lot of times, right? There's grit, right? There's mental intestinal fortitude and all those things that go in there. But a lot of that has to do with what can your body withstand, right? And joint integrity, tissue integrity has a lot to do with that. I mean, how many guys get rolled out because they got a shoulder thing or they got a knee thing or a back thing? Some of that could be they fall off of something that had a really cute injury. But a lot of it is just they don't have the strength or resiliency to not just do the thing one time, but do it for days and weeks and whatever on end. So going back, if they brought that stuff in that these guys are being taught now, that's quote unquote new and they put it at the beginning, I guarantee you you would have less of what you've seen in terms of broken bodies. Again, outside of the acute things, I mean sans that getting shot, blown up, falling off the back of an airplane or out of a helicopter, whatever the things are off a Bearcat or whatever it is, they would be in a better position to then continue to load their body over time to build, maintain that strength and even deal with an injury or a problem when it came up. Something I'm super passionate about because that's what we're dealing with on a regular basis now is you've got guys that are, that are on teams somewhere, particularly in law enforcement, they're on teams and they got there because they were big strong athletes of sorts. But they're missing major pieces. And one of those things is just knowing how to really move well. And they've overdone things in some areas and underdone things in other areas and it is kind of a recipe for disaster. You're kind of, I don't want to say you're ticking time bomb and never put together like exercise programs so that you don't get injured. Injury prevention is a, is a byproduct of all the good stuff that goes into putting together a program and staying on. I'm being consistent, but I hear what you're saying.

[Scott Howell]

You can reduce it but you cannot eliminate it.

[Tyler]

100 cannot JV team for life.

[Brent]

And of course we got to give a shout out to our boys in 09 holsters. Custom built ruggedized duty gear. Made in the USA for cops by cops. A Leo and veteran owned small business. They do an upgraded solutions for duty gear including cases for portable radios, body cameras, tourniquets and pretty much everything you need to carry on duty. So go to 009holsters.com and use promo code antihero10zulu9. That's antihero10z9 and get yourself 10 off your order.

[Tyler]

Revenge is an act of passion. Vengeance is an act of justice. Injuries are revenged. Crimes are avenged. Almost a century ago, big pharmaceutical companies re engineered medical school curriculum and faculty with one goal. Putting profit before progress. Anyone pushing back against the medical matrix they carefully crafted was threatened, silenced, censored, financially ruined or worse. They are the problem, we are the solution.

[Scott Howell]

Roger, look up that route.

[Tyler]

See how far Away Easy is okay.

[Brent]

Are you tired of using your standard issue flashlight? I know you're still using it because I was still using mine. But I have good news. We've teamed up with Cloud Defensive, the best in the game when it comes to weapons mounted and handheld lights. Go to clouddefensive.com, put in promo code ANTIHERO15 and get 15 off your entire order. Cloud Defensive pushing the boundaries in illumination.

[Tyler]

JV team for life. But going back to what you were saying, like, I hear where you're coming from there. Because at some point you have to give your body enough stimulus to build and maintain that muscle and, and if it's, it's not, it needs to be folded into again. All these foundational principles of building and maintaining muscle. There's a, there's a place and a time for all of it.

[Scott Howell]

I see what you're saying and I can probably verbalize it a little better, even though I am still a fan of the full run a little bit, lift a lot works, be high in testosterone and crush anyone in front of you. Part of the formula for sure, what I'm saying is, although I still mentally identify with that mindset, I'm not necessarily completely upset about this new way of thinking. But like anything else, I think the pendulum has swung too far to where instead of strength being your priority, mobility and you know, has become like your number one thing, like how, like how flexible and mobile can I be? And strength has taken a back seat. I think, I think we just, I think the pendulum just did need to swing a little bit. Let's, let's keep, let's keep strength and size as something important and add flexibility, mobility into that. It's not going to, it's not going to detract from it. But yeah, I don't think we, there's definitely something to be said about that. And that's where, that's where the argument, or I should say discussion like brings out something better. But I think the pendulum just swung too far.

[Tyler]

I agree with you 100%. And a lot of times what you see trying to be done is you're trying to get something that you never had, you're never going to get. Particularly like on the mobility side of things, lack of mobility tends to be because of a lack of strength somewhere. And then it limits how your body works on certain, without getting into the, to the detail, you're limited. And so if all you're doing now is spending all of this time, right, and you're putting all this emphasis and value on getting More mobile. Well, something's going to take a back seat, Right. And now you're not lifting those heavy weights and you're not getting bigger or stronger like you need to be. And there's this, I don't know, this weird mindset around, well, if I'm just more mobile, everything will be better. That is not true. That is definitely not true. You have to look at the big picture and where am I putting value? How much emphasis am I putting in each parts of these programs? There's a time and place for all of it. But going back to the pendulum. Yeah. What you saw is you saw it swing way different, way different direction. And you also hearing feedback, I think, from people that have spent time doing it. And yeah, they feel better. Right. It's. That was tough for me. Or I feel better in this workout now. Yeah. But you still have to do all the other things. It doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing this other stuff too.

[Scott Howell]

And I've said this before with you. I think it's even more important for American law enforcement to be bigger and stronger. Even more important, ironically enough, than I was in the Delta Force there. I never ran across anyone on target that I couldn't manhandle. And on my worst day, they're just not big people, you know, and that's just. That's just the truth.

[Tyler]

That's the truth. That was the nature of the thing.

[Scott Howell]

That was just the nature of it. I. I just enjoyed being a lot bigger than them and stronger than them. But even at my biggest, at 215, 220, I might walk into a 711 here in the United States and not be the biggest man in that 7:11. So here in the United States, where there's a lot of big dudes, a lot of muscular guys, but bad guys work out just as much as good guys like you. You have to be the baddest dude anywhere you go in America. That's a much. That's a much higher bar to set than what I did overseas.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent]

And I used to joke about it and it's kind of. And you need to have both. But the dudes that are mobile, fit, and can fight, nine times out of 10 are fighting because they're not big. The dudes that lift weights, look the part, get some tattoos, have a tight uniform, they're fighting one time out of 10 because just the psychology of it.

[Tyler]

You know, I agree. I agree on a lot of accounts there. Fitness in law enforcement for a long time has been very misapplied, and it's been left up to the officer to figure it out. Right. And some of those going back, back. Like, I figured out that the guys with the bigger. Bigger muscles, more tattoos, and the bigger beard tend to get in less shit. And also got selected for teams that got to do cool stuff. Right. Got to run around, chase bad guys, whether in some special unit or whatever else. And they're doing the cool stuff, so I'm gonna do that. They put two and two together there, and then they figure out when they're out there actually in application. Yeah. This is why these guys look this way. Right. Because they're avoiding things, but they're also dominating other human beings. The worst thing that can ever happen to you is being dominated by another man, right?

[Brent]

I would say so.

[Tyler]

Like, again, that's what that's sport taught me.

[Brent]

Burned alive and then being dominated by another.

[Tyler]

Both of. Both of those are a level 11 on a scale of 1 to 10. You don't want that, right?

[Scott Howell]

For sure.

[Tyler]

Just tell me what I have to do to avoid those two. Yeah, right. Don't play with matches and lift some damn weights.

[Scott Howell]

Well, I think that's a good segue into being bigger, faster, stronger, which people think. And I'm not saying it's true or not true. So I can't get that from what I eat. I'm gonna have to add something to it, I. E. Supplements. Yeah, let's talk about the supplement industry. From what the supplement industry is. What? Speaking of bigger, faster, stronger, did you ever see the documentary on YouTube?

[Tyler]

Oh, yeah.

[Scott Howell]

Changed my mind about. About steroids. That completely changed my mind about.

[Brent]

Oh, the guy that his brother was. Yeah, yeah, I've seen that.

[Tyler]

Yeah. His name is Scared.

[Scott Howell]

So good. And that's what kind of opened my eyes about the supplement industry. He goes and talks about supplements, and I'm like, that's cr. It's so. It's the wild. It's the wild west of nutrition. Like, there's no one, like, really regulates it. There's no one that you can say whatever you want to say. You don't have to be able to prove it. We'll just start wherever you want to start. Let's talk about the supplement industry.

[Tyler]

I mean, I've been in the business for, like, 27 years now of fitness. Right. Where I actually make a living in the thing. But long time, obviously, participating in all kinds of stuff. The supplement business is the wild, wild West. I will say this now more than ever, the consumer has way more options to choose something that is way cleaner. Right. Healthier While it might not be regulated, the dawn of, you know, social media and communication, the interwebs, I think keeps people a little bit more honest, you know, at times because there's more information out, there's more information and the consumer demands more information. So just because it says it on the label doesn't mean what's in the bottle. But all it takes is some dude with a little time and a little money to send that off to an independent lab or 10 other supplements and compare them. And the next thing you know, that's viral on the Internet and you found out this one that's supposed to be the cleanest says 10 rat turds per, you know, per ounce. And you know, this one that was the cheaper brand only had one rat turd per ounce, you know, kind of thing.

[Scott Howell]

They definitely do some dirty tricks, which is even when you go to Google something and you find what looks to be like a fitness nutrition article and then come to find out it was actually originated by them, you know, bought by them. So even that skewed, they'll go as far as pretending to be personalities and forms and on Reddit to say how amazing this product was and then come to find out like that they are the people saying it. It's not like a person, like it's a really dirty business and misinformation and that aspect.

[Tyler]

Follow the money. We already said that. That's the thing that I think drives. But it goes one step further. When you look at like peer reviewed studies on certain supplements or ergogenic aids or whatever, who paid for that study? It's the same as the pharmaceutical business in that sense. You know, you've got Company X whose product has got all these things in it. Well, Company X paid for the study that was done at the university on these products or on the ingredients that are in these products. And miraculously, it totally favors this particular product. There's money to be made there. It is dirty. I mean, just go to any supplement store, you know, on the corner or whatever. I think we passed one of them on the way in. And you walk in there, there'll be a whole wall, an entire wall dedicated to, quote, unquote, fat burners. There will be, there'll be 50 bottles on that wall and there's not an ingredient in there that actually burns fat.

[Brent]

It's called your two feet. Those are fat burners.

[Tyler]

Like, metabolically, there's nothing in there that actually burns fat. There are things in there. There's all kinds of stuff. We go down the rabbit hole on that, but bottom line is like, you can still put that on the bottle, right? And people will still buy it. Because again, if I buy this, it says that I should get this result. And it just, it's a multi billion dollar industry globally and it just continues to, continues to get bigger and bigger. Bigger for all kinds of reasons.

[Scott Howell]

I used to make this joke when some guys would make fun of me for like bringing supplements in or drinking a lot of protein shakes. Like, you know, that doesn't work. And whether it did or didn't, I kind of had the same like, you know, facetious joke back was like, well, whether it works or not, I know this. If I just spent 250 bucks at GNC, I'm going to eat clean and I'm going to go to the gym.

[Tyler]

Huge factor.

[Scott Howell]

So in a weird way, will they work or not? They kind of work because you just spent money on it. You're now going to change your life, you know, because you're trying to get more fit and you're going to have results. But there's most of those have no indication that what you took were part of any of those results.

[Tyler]

Yeah, we talk about this stuff all the time. You know, we do a few episodes a week and one of them is completely dedicated to like the health and fitness side of things. And we talk about supplements a lot because people ask us to talk about certain things and, and you know, we have our favorites and, and things that we do recommend for people for very specific reasons. But to your point, there's something to be said about routine or what I would call a regiment. And when you decide you're gonna do this and invest money and put these things in your face every day, which is at a specific, very specific time, that's what everybody wants to know. What's the best time to take this supplement?

[Scott Howell]

Right.

[Tyler]

It's gonna maximize my $250 here or whatever. You start kind of a regiment and that starts as part of a process. And part of that process is probably being a little bit more careful with what you put in your mouth, maybe working out a little bit more frequently or a little harder.

[Brent]

It's the same thing. It was like you're gonna deck out your rifle and all the attachments, the supplements. But if your foundation is awful 100%.

[Tyler]

That'S actually how I got in. We'll get to this later. But that's actually how when I got into this genre, if you will, like firearms training, preparedness or whatever, I looked at it. Cause the first place you go is The Internet, right? To get all your information. Cause everything's true on the Internet, you know, like, well, you know, how should I be training here? What equipment should I be buying? What's the best rifle, what's the best optic, what's the best light, what's the best sling? Right? You get on there. And I was looking at it, and after as long as I spent the fitness industry, I just went, this is.

[Brent]

Exactly, it's exactly the same money to be made.

[Tyler]

Yeah, it is exactly the same.

[Scott Howell]

I never made that connection. I knew where you were going. I started making that connection. I was like, oh my gosh, we're the tax. We're the same.

[Tyler]

Yeah. So if you have a question about like a software supplement or, you know, a product or a specific exercise or whatever, and you're very familiar with that industry, just look at it in that context and you'll probably come up with the answer pretty quick.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, it's the same. What, what supplements do you take?

[Tyler]

So, I mean, I won't go down the entire list, but like legal supplements, so. So when I say that they're all legal these days. They're all legal these days. But the, you know, like baseline protein powder, like, just to make sure that I hit my protein needs on a regular basis, right? There's a couple scoops a day that go into my system. There's a variety of multivitamins and minerals that go into my system on a daily basis. Stuff that people probably know about but don't give a lot of credit to, but have huge impacts. And I know this from data and having blood testing done or whatever, things like vitamin D. There's a fish oil product that I take, right? There's magnesium, there's zinc, there's a multivitamin that's racked and stacked with a bunch of stuff. So there's a handful of, you know, pills, if you will, or capsules that I take on a regular basis. I'm not. I take creatine. Everybody should be taking creatine. Yeah, everybody. Your kid, your 16 year old kid should be taking creatine. Your. Your care.

[Scott Howell]

Do you care which type of creatine?

[Tyler]

Yeah, monohydrate. Just get yourself basic monohydrate. Okay.

[Brent]

I went to gnc. My buddy Nate, he owns like, the way GNC is doing it now is they're realizing the franchises are way better than the corporate stores. So they're finding the best franchise guy and they're like, you're gonna run all these stores, so. And he owns a bunch and he was like, dude, I was buying the monohydrate. And he was like, dude, you gotta try this. And he slid it to me. I forget what it is. And I'm like, you don't have to load it. He goes, nope, dude, it's way better. And I was like, it just seems like when you take creatine, you have to load that's five days, five scoops, and it sucks. And then now there's this miracle creatine, right, that you don't have to do any of that.

[Scott Howell]

Even that. I have a question. Who says you have to load it? They said you had to load it to get through their product.

[Tyler]

That's market, man. So there's.

[Brent]

Dude.

[Tyler]

So there's also. There's been some studies have been misrepresented. And so we talk about, like, when you look at supplements, particularly like looking at multivitamins. Let's talk about vitamin D. Okay.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So let's say you go have a blood test done. You recognize your vitamin D is very low. And so you need. You want to bring your vitamin D levels back up. There is a, what you could call a repletion dose where you might be taking way more than what the recommendation is. We can talk about that if you want, but. But way more than what the recommendation is to kind of boost and really flood the system with that before you move to maybe more of a maintenance level. You could think about creatine the same way in the sense that, okay, so you're way under on creatine. And who would that be? That's somebody that's probably not eating very much protein, specifically from animal meats, because that's where you're going to get it from in nature. Your body does produce a bit of that on its own, but you're going to get it from animal meats. Let's say you're vegan and you're like, I need to get on this creatine stuff. I'm going to start doing this. Then you may want to, for a bit, load, as that term is called, right. To bring it up. But for the average person, you don't need to do that. The studies basically show, and they're kind of inarguable at this point, whether you started with 5 grams a day over a month, or you started for the first 10 days at 10 to 15 grams a day and then backed it off the 5 grams. Your creatine levels may rise in that first 10 to 15 days, but after 20 days, they're the same anyways.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So it's Just kind of a faster way to the end. You're spending more money to get the same result over time.

[Brent]

Gotcha.

[Tyler]

So I mean that's really what we know about creatine.

[Scott Howell]

I know your questions. Well, yeah, we're not gonna pay for your services, but these are like, basically they get argued over for.

[Tyler]

Oh, we get the ass. Ask the same question.

[Scott Howell]

Oh, I'm sure every day. So like, yeah, so like a, a SWAT guy that, that wants to be bigger, faster, stronger, wants to be that tactical athlete. But, but on the, on the heavier side of that spectrum, how many grams of protein do you need a day?

[Brent]

I was gonna ask that.

[Tyler]

Great question.

[Scott Howell]

A gram. Is it one gram per pound? Two grams per pound? Because it's one to two is a very small one to two. It's not much. That's a big difference in a 220 pound man to 220 grams and 440. It's a big difference.

[Tyler]

It's, it's a huge difference. I can tell you where the confusion came from. So there's, so when you look at, here's the basic answer. So real, real quick. So you should be eating. If you're looking to gain or maintain. All right, the muscle, any kind of muscle mass, you should be eating a gram per pound of your target body weight. Okay.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Tyler]

So if your target weight is 200 pounds, then you should be eating near 200 grams of protein a day. The whole 1 to 2 grams comes in. When you look at, in America we use, we have a problem with math, with metrics.

[Brent]

The American system, we did our own thing.

[Tyler]

So it used to be about 2 grams per kilogram. So that's where the confusion gets messed up. Now that doesn't mean you can't eat 400 grams of protein or whatever you need to. There's a deeper conversation on like, well, let's look at macro, total caloric intake, macronutrient intake and what. But if you're targeting a gram per pound of your target body weight and protein a day, you're going to be good. Is there, will there be reasons to eat more? Sure. Right. If you're trying to make adjustments, any reason to eat less? Probably not.

[Scott Howell]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Brent]

About protein.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent]

Right. Can your body only digest 30 to 40 grams?

[Tyler]

Again, another great question. A lot of confusion there. There's not, there's no science that says your body can actually only, only process X amount of grams of protein in a sitting. That there's so many. You have to remember the concept of the individual here. Like Everybody's an individual. Even if you ran a randomized control study, which they've done, there's no, like, empirical evidence that suggests that only, you know, you can only do 30 grams at a time or whatever. The question I would be asking is, why would you be eating this massive amount of protein at one time anyway? And there may be a need for that. You're trying to reach a total caloric intake. Your frequency of meals is only so many times per day. So you have to get that protein, that 200 grams in. If you're only eating two times a day and your target goal is 200 grams of protein a day, great luck with that. On the flip side, I think the question comes down, like, efficiency. Somebody said something about the five to six meals a day. The goal is to get the calories in and get the macronutrients in the proportions that should be there in order for you to be as efficient at doing the things you're supposed to be doing. And sometimes that means eating more meals throughout the day just to meet all of those needs. And to go back, the next question that comes up. So if I did do it all one time, ate 200 grams of protein at one time, what would happen? You're gonna have disaster pants, right? You know, like, you're gonna be. That's gonna be uncomfortable. And what else are you leaving off the table? Like, so, yeah, that goes back to the meal meal frequency question.

[Scott Howell]

Is there any negative effects from having too much protein? Is there like liver, kidney things? If you were like to eat 400 grams of protein for, for long period of times or any negative effects?

[Tyler]

There could, there could be, but it's not going to be just because of the protein. You can't isolate it to the protein intake. There's probably a lot of other reasons that go into that with regard to, I mean, you could boil it down to like, hydration, like, what else are you onboarding with that protein and things like that. But that's not something people should worry about.

[Brent]

I have a question.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent]

Calories in, calories out.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent]

Are you a believer in that?

[Tyler]

Depends on the context of what we're talking about. If you're looking to lose body fat or body weight, there is a caloric balance equation. I mean, that's how the human body works. If you're taking in less calories, but, you know, again, conventional wisdom will tell you you're taking in less calories than you're burning on a daily basis. Right. You're going to lose weight. You do that. That needs to be consistent. Right. And the next question that should come up is like, what weight am I losing, how much weight am I losing and what's the cost of that when people are trying to lose weight, I'll just throw this in there. Most people need to be eating more and they don't understand that because they're way below their caloric maintenance. And then they go, they've been in a deficit or they're right at maintenance and what they're trying to do is lose weight. So the first thing they do is two things. One, eat less. Okay. Caloric imbalance, move more, exercise more. Well, the problem is if you're underfed already and your body is down regulated in what we'll refer to as like low power mode, that down regulates a lot of other things in terms of your body's processes with recovery, hormone balance, energy levels, all that kind of stuff. So if you're moving deeper, deeper into a deficit than you already were and you're not getting like your protein needs or you're not meeting your protein requirement or other macro requirements, provide mineral requirements or whatever you're, you're going to be in now, you're digging yourself into a really deep hole and your body goes into what's called metabolic adaptation. And it will downregulate and it will get you through, I mean maybe your experience through, you know, the military or whatever, going through, you know, selection processes where all they're doing is just starving you and keeping you up all night and going and going and going. You're being depleted that whole time. But you went in with a really strong base so you can do that for now. But people do do this. They go into caloric deficit, calories in versus calories out. And they do it for this prolonged period of time. The body metabolism, if you want to refer to it, that will adapt to that. It's very plastic. It'll, it'll adapt.

[Brent]

What about, but like, like time, like if I were to eat four meals in a day, no matter what they were, is it different if I start off and then I don't eat past 6pm or can I eat a meal at midnight and go to bed? Does that matter?

[Tyler]

So this goes to the calories in, calories out equation. It's, it's still calories in, calories out. But what your, how your body responds to is as an individual can, can vary. Okay, in turn again, I would not try and save all my calories for 7 o'clock and a half. My, if I was trying to lose weight, my maintenance calories is 2000 and I'm eating 1500. You could eat 1500 calories before you go to bed. Is your body gonna be as efficient at doing what you're trying to get it to do? Which hopefully would be to lose body fat, not weight, because we could be eating lean tissue in that process. I don't recommend that. I don't recommend that. But you know, again, it looks all fine on paper, you know, when you're starting to work crunch math. But it goes to a much deeper level that again, going back to how it's gotten so convoluted, that's part of it. Like why would I try and do that? Or again, people try to fit things into feeding windows. When you talk about time restricted feeding or fasting and things like that, it still comes down to anybody that's having any kind of positive weight loss result, like an intermittent fasting. I would bet my next paycheck that is because you're actually just in a caloric deficit doesn't have anything to do with the eight hour window that you're, you just are eating less in that time than you were eating before in total. And as a result you wound up in a caloric deficit.

[Brent]

The reason why people fast and I was, I don't want to say a victim of it, but I did it, is because you don't have to have discipline with what you eat. Everybody thinks it's way easier. I cannot eat for the first part of the day. It's just easier for them discipline wise rather than just regulating what they eat.

[Tyler]

I mean these are the things that we're working with clients with on a daily basis every day. And it is. The humans struggle with this. They struggle. It's a tough thing to try and balance and figure out, especially with all the confusion.

[Scott Howell]

I think part of the problem is and, and when it comes to weight loss, let's, let's be, for the most part guys will cut weight a little bit, you know, when just they're already muscular, they're just trying to look better in that aspect or maybe they're really fat. There's a lot of the weight loss has to do with, with females and females that really aren't that again like the, the, the, like the, the main, the main culprit of this and they're not grossly overweight, they're just not happy with where they are. And I wish they would focus more on being healthy than just losing weight. Like they're so tied to what that scale is, is telling them. And if You're. And if your goal was to just be a healthier person, what you saw in the mirror, you'd be happier with in the long run than just losing 10 pounds in 10 days.

[Tyler]

You're 100% right. And I could not agree with you more. Like, chasing fat loss is a really tough place to live.

[Scott Howell]

Right.

[Tyler]

Chasing health is really what you should be focused on. And if you're. If you're doing that, fat loss is generally a byproduct. But I think there is a difference between loving yourself and taking care of yourself. There it goes.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, Max agrees.

[Tyler]

There's a difference between loving yourself and taking care of yourself, because I've seen a lot of overweight people that say they love themselves and, you know, feel good on the inside and spiritually and mentally and all those things, but they're not physically taking care of themselves, and they are using things no one else loves.

[Brent]

You.

[Tyler]

The scale is a tool. Right. It gives you a peek of what's going on, but it's not a good, good indicator of what's really happening under the hood.

[Scott Howell]

So this is a great segue into, like, supplements and something else we want to talk about. It's a taboo subject, which is kind of crazy to me. It's becoming less taboo. And I'll. I'll say it right, right here on the podcast. We talked. We. We tiptoed on a little bit bigger, faster, stronger, really talked about, you know, how skeptical the supplement, you know, companies can be. And at some point, like, I thought to myself, like, and I was very heavy in the supplements at the time. I'm like, so I don't know what I'm putting in my body over here. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. Well, now let me go look at, you know, over here and look at testosterone. It. I'll probably spend the same amount of money that I'm going to spend on those supplements I'm going to gain, depending on the dose, 10 or 15 pounds of muscle over. Over several months of time. It's a known quantity. And to me, just logically looking at it, I'm like, then why am I gambling over here? I'm just going to put my money on the surefire things. And so almost every deployment I was on, I took testosterone. And good. Yeah. And I'm back on testosterone now. Here's another thing that I realized. Being 44 and being in the, you know, health and fitness environment most my life, no one talked about it. No one wanted to talk about it. You. I look back almost every. Almost Every big dude in the gym, 20, 30, 40 or 50, for sure. You look at those guys like, oh, man, that. That. That dude's. Yeah, that. That dude's eating good and lifting hard. Well, guess what? He is like. He is.

[Tyler]

Yes.

[Scott Howell]

But here's something else he won't tell you because he won't. He'll tell you. He'll tell you that same good thing you have. Take your vitamins, you know, lift hard. But the one thing he won't tell you is, oh, and by the way, I'm on steroids. And that's why I'm this big. Like, which is a little bit, you know, which is a little bit, you know, misleading. Right. And so that's. So let's talk about it.

[Tyler]

Yeah, so trt, you know, so when we talk about, like, hormone replacement therapy, trt, however you want to. You want to phrase it, and the word steroids, and then you look at. It's a pharmaceutical needs to be prescribed from a doctor, otherwise you're getting another. On the black market underground, whatever else. I mean, obviously, we're already into, you know, the shadows. Right. Of that. Like, how do you get it right? Well, you can't just show up to the doctor. Like, most doctors aren't just going to write you a script. Things are different now, right? Things have evolved.

[Scott Howell]

Well, they. But they drove it underground.

[Tyler]

Yeah, 100%.

[Scott Howell]

I believe it was in the 80s steroids. You were legal in America up until the 80s. Or there was something that happened and they talk about this in bigger, faster, stronger. There was even whether it was legal or not, I believe it was legal, but there was definitely a crunch that happened on him that really drove it more underground.

[Tyler]

Yeah, that period of time was very interesting. If you listen to guys like RFK when he talks about vaccines and the Food and Drug Administration and all that, there's a lot of legislation happening to control things, and we're seeing the result of that now in terms of the health of America. Whole other rabbit hole, whole other topic. But when it comes to male hormone replacement therapy, somehow it's become taboo. And a lot of that is attached to how it's been driven through the media as a negative thing. And yes, there's some negativity to that because generally, and this is how dudes generally are, too, is that more is generally better? If this much gives me this result, then what if I just go, go, you know, full ham here, you know.

[Scott Howell]

Which is kind of what we've been talking about this whole podcast.

[Tyler]

Yeah, exactly. Let's just go bigger Right. So you know, you think about when you go back to like the, the 90s or whatever with, you know, what was going on in Major League Baseball and before that. Yeah, professional wrestling, even the NFL. Guys like, this is definitely dating me. Guys like loyal, sorry, Lyle El Zaino from the Raiders, right. Everybody trying to blame steroids for his brain cancer.

[Scott Howell]

Brains, they're crazy.

[Tyler]

So they were just driving fear into like this is bad. But at the same time, at the exact same time, women were getting estrogen replacement constantly. They were getting birth control that was estrogen based and that was based off some really shitty science, some really bad studies that were published that were falsified when they went out there. And that's not taboo. It's okay to give your 14 year old daughter, you know, birth control, but it's not okay to give a 40 year old male testosterone replacement therapy. So there's a huge dichotomy there kind of in all that.

[Brent]

Or it's okay to give a 14 year old boy estrogen.

[Tyler]

Here we are right at the other end of that. The pendulum has come back all the entirely different way. It's interesting. So yeah, with the HRT and testosterone thing, like more than ever there's. Do you guys know anybody that's died of an overdose of testosterone?

[Scott Howell]

Yes, an overdose of testosterone. Let me put it to you like this. No one dies of an overdose of testosterone. But when you hear things, when you know what to listen for, yeah, you're like, you know what, I got you. Let's someone. People have died of enlarged hearts. Where are they getting a lot? So they're going to say he died of enlarged art. They're not going to, to put that towards steroids. That's absolutely because of steroids. And so but I don't want to stop there because that would be disingenuous and misleading to say steroids enlarge your heart. You're going to die of a heart attack or an, or an enlarged heart. That's ridiculous. Go look at that person. And when you see that person was £300 and his test, you know, his free test was at 2000, you're like, oh, okay, well maybe, maybe he's taking way too much for way too long. And that's the problem. It goes back to this, what you just talked about. More is better. More is better. Which, better.

[Tyler]

So again, just like with supplements or whatever, everything gets completely blown out of proportion. So look, testosterone therapy for again, people will look at that. That's semantics. You're taking legal roids. You guys can call it whatever you want. I don't care. But here's what we do know through the science that exists now is that it is effective when applied properly, when monitored properly. And there's a lot of things that get monitored outside of just free testosterone. You should never get into this and just start pumping that, you know, pumping stuff into you. I did do that, you know, early in my days. I mean, there was. I experimented with a lot of different things.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

But I reached a point in my. And then there was a long period of time where I did none of those things.

[Brent]

Right.

[Tyler]

And then I reached a point in my life where I was like, I'm not right. Something's wrong. And there was, I think, maybe having a higher level awareness of my body and what was going on. I actually kind of self diagnosed. I had a thyroid condition. And because of some weird symptoms that I was having and I tried to do the right thing. Where do you go? You go to an endocrinologist. Those are the people that know all the things about your endocrine system. And let's get that figured out. I had a nightmare. I told nightmare story about how I finally wound up in hrt. And once I finally got it figured out for myself, it's a game changer. Biggest change in my life. And I mean that in every sense of the term. Like mentally, emotionally, physically. You cannot. I think that's the thing for a lot of dudes. Like, they just recognize something isn't right. Yeah.

[Brent]

You can't.

[Tyler]

They can't put your finger on it. Yes.

[Brent]

But you're like, you have to go through.

[Scott Howell]

This is the way I describe it. Here's the. You don't just wake up and you went from, you know, 800 level to. To 90. No, it happens gradually.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

And it happens very slow, very gradually. So it would be in a weird. It'd be better if they did because you'd be like, hey, something's wrong. So it just happens so gradually. This is now like your new. This is not your new normal. And you're living with it until you finally, you know, till it gets so low, you're like, all right, like something's wrong. And guys, and we talked about this is last episode with, with, you know, with. With him and his cancer. Guys will just. They'll, like, they'll just justify anything. I'm just, man, I'm just. I'm just really sick now. Oh, yeah, it's crazy.

[Brent]

Everybody's back hurts all day long.

[Tyler]

Stop being a. Let's just get over it.

[Scott Howell]

Right. I'm just older now. Like and if you. And when they finally get it fixed and look back, I e me, I look back and I make fun of myself like, what an idiot. Why would I do that?

[Tyler]

Why?

[Scott Howell]

Right. Why would I just suffer for that long rather than, than saying, okay, and I don't want the other side of that to happen where it's like the first time you don't feel good, let's run to a doctor. But at some point when you're living a certain way long enough and things aren't getting better, let's look into it.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And a lot of it is self induced. There's a lot of extrinsic things that can go into that. And you just mentioned one of them that's just kind of ignoring it. Just be tougher, man up, that kind of thing.

[Scott Howell]

Beat yourself up.

[Tyler]

You beat yourself up about it and go, you know, I'm, I just need to be tougher and kind of get through this thing. The other side of it is I think there's also blaming your hormones for a shitty lifestyle that contribute. So going back to the extrinsic factors, there are things that are happening naturally. Our testosterone levels are going to drop as you get older. It's just how the human body works. For some it could be faster than others. Things in life do impact how your hormones function. And being stressed out constantly, being underfed, undernourished, working out all the time, not recovering, being in recovery, debt constantly, those are factors too. There's emotional stress, there's psychological stress. There's all kinds of stuff that can impact that imbalance and get you there to that decrease faster or not, or maybe you can maintain a little bit longer. Certainly your diet and all that certainly has impacts there.

[Scott Howell]

But here's just something I want to point out, make fun of. That's always been real ironic to me towards the, as I got older, if vitamin. You mentioned vitamin D. Vitamin D is so important for your energy levels. Once you get low on vitamin D, like you will just be fighting for energy that, that no monster will, will help you get out of. Ask me how I know that's what so the. But if we went to a normal person, just normal person, and you're like, I mean I'm just, I'm really struggling today. And like, all right, well we took your blood work, you're low in vitamin D. That person's going to say, well give me vitamin D and they'll take that vitamin D all day long and not have any issue with it. Now we're talking about your hormones, your testosterone. Essentially the building block of so many things in your life. Performance, your sleep, your mental attitude, your libido. So important, it covers so much more than vitamin D. And instead of a doctor saying you need testosterone, the doctor or you or whoever is going to be like, well, here's all the different ways we can go about to raise your testosterone levels. They will indirectly give you. Yeah, they'll indirectly give you a bunch of ways to raise your testosterone level instead of just giving you what you're short on. Why is that? I mean, that's a little bit of a rhetorical question, but it's insane. It's insanity.

[Tyler]

It's a couple of easy, simple answers. I think first from the consumer side is, that's not the answer. Well, maybe they think they want that, but they really don't because it's been stigmatized, right?

[Scott Howell]

Absolutely.

[Tyler]

I don't want to take steroids. I use that in air quotes. Steroids and air quotes. That's one. The bigger problem is physicians are not educated on this. They don't get this education. They don't understand this. And it also depends on who you're talking to. I'm not making a blanket statement, all physicians, because I work with one who's fucking amazing. Right. But the problem is they don't spend enough time understanding how all of that works. And they're also feeling that stigma and there's liability attached with if I prescribe something that could kill somebody or make them so angry, they roid rage on their kids or whatever else. That kind of stuff that exists. That's true. But I think it largely has to do with the miseducation or misinformation about it.

[Brent]

Yeah, my doctor was like, I went and got tested. I was at 4, 17. And he was like, that's fine. And I was like. But I was like. I was trying not to sound cheesy, but I'm like, I'm not. I'm trying to be optimal in my lifestyle. Just look at my job. I'm a cop. I have to be optimal all day long. And he just was like, now he's like, considering that's probably good compared to other men. I was like, damn, we're lost.

[Scott Howell]

That's so subjective. It's so subjective. That's what you say. There's another doctor that'd be like, oh, you're at four, you're below five prescription right now.

[Tyler]

So that's another part of it is the goalposts on what is high versus what is Low has been changing dramatically over the last 15 to 20 years, even longer than that, but particularly in the last 15 to 20 years. So 417 might have been low 10 years ago, and now it's considered normal.

[Brent]

Because the stuff that they put in your food, they have to change.

[Tyler]

All kinds of reasons. All kinds of reasons. But the, the going in and having it tested and then who's testing it, like. And what do they actually. What do they actually know? That's very impressive.

[Scott Howell]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Tyler]

I wasn't sure what that was. I had to make sense of that.

[Brent]

Well, the attention's not on Brent. You just bust that out.

[Tyler]

That lighter is. Yeah, that's something, right? Yeah. So you. Can I tell you my story? Actually, I'll try and get. I'll try and get through my.

[Scott Howell]

It's your podcast.

[Tyler]

I'll try and get through the story fairly quickly. It was a nightmare for me. And that was, again, I give you a little background. Yes. I'd experiment with quite a few things when I was. When I was younger, and that was to get a result that I was getting right. And it was very effective. And they work. And I was being smart about it. I wasn't going apeshit. But where was I getting my stuff from? Same people place everybody else was getting from the dude from the trunk of his car, you know, the gym. So what was really in that, you know, kind of of thing? But then I, you know, I got to a point where I was like, it's not. Those aren't my goals anymore. I'm not going to do this. I don't need this for this. In fact, I was trying to take weight off. I was at £1.260 in lean and, you know, doing it and doing the bodybuilding thing. Yeah. And then monster. And then I got. I got to a point where I was. I got married and then we were on a trip and we were hiking, which is something I love doing. Going out in the. We're at the Grand Canyon or whatever the hell it was, and we're hiking out there. Get about two miles out. I get, bro, like a high five. Feel like, you know, my knees hurt. Like everything's heavy. Like I'm sweating. I feel like an elephant, you know, in this 90 degree heat or whatever. And it dawned on me, I'm like, this is dumb. I can't even do the things I love doing. Which included, you know, the guy was just in here, was talking about cycling. Something that I really enjoy doing, too. Getting out on my bike and doing.

[Scott Howell]

You were just doing a different cycling snowboard.

[Tyler]

I was doing much different cycling. And I was good at it. I was good at it. But that, that said, I got past that. And so for about 10 years there was none of that in my life. And so. And I was doing great. So career starts to take off, right? I'm. I'm busy getting in. I'm in this fitness business thing. And then I kind of find myself in some leadership positions and I'm traveling around the country and I'm doing some cool stuff and not sleeping as much. A little bit more responsibility. Kids on the way now. Now we got a kid, right? So I got a little liability and I got real smart with the money that I was making and bought a house and then bought a truck, then bought another one. Right. And then bought a boat, then bought another house, you know, got all that kind of stuff going on.

[Scott Howell]

Now you're in the rat race.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And now you're in the rat race. Right. And so that stuff's weird. And I'm training a lot, like. And I was into. So I made this massive shift into triathlon, or let's call it multi sport, because it wasn't just triathlon. There was some other stuff in there, like adventure racing stuff. It was popular kind of in the late 90s, early or early 2000s, triathlon.

[Scott Howell]

Sprints or full Olympics, Olympic and sprint.

[Tyler]

And so I really love the off road stuff. There was an event called the Xterra Off Road Triathlon.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Tyler]

And so it was all done. Like it was trail riding, it was mountain biking and trail running and swimming. Like the Western regional championships every year were in Lake Tahoe. It was my favorite time of year. That was pretty cool. Yeah, it was cool. And so it was a little different athlete. Like, it wasn't because I remember I was £260. So I had to come to the guys that were competing in these Olympics. Big road races and gazelles, man.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, they're 160.

[Tyler]

They're foot one, maybe, right? I mean, you know, six foot, six foot one. They're like albatross in the, in the, in the water. Yeah. So I was just not very competitive.

[Scott Howell]

But we give well the Clydesdale division. I bet you're a little competitive.

[Tyler]

That's another story.

[Scott Howell]

I showed up.

[Tyler]

I showed up at 230 because I'd gone into a couple of these things and I entered the Clydesdale that I was, you know, I was a lean230. And I remember that the people standing at the registration desk like, bro, Clydesdale, like, I'm like, what, dude? I'm 230 pounds. I go every time I come to these things, my ass kicked by the 180 pounders. I'm just trying to be, you know, competitive in my division. They gave me a really hard time. I was really embarrassed, so I never did that again. Which is interesting. But the, but the, the off road stuff was different. You had to be more of a power athlete to get through some of these mountain bike events. There was a much higher level of skill in the running and the riding. So I was like, I really like that. Or the end, you were off the road. And it limited the. When I say it limited the competition. It was a much different competitor. Triathlons, anybody can do that. Anybody can buy a bike, buy a pair of running shoes and swim and do the thing. This was just a little tougher. And for me it was something different. But anyway, my point being is I was pulling a bunch of weight off and I was training a ton. You're talking, you know, I was going from training in the gym an hour and a half, maybe two hours a day to doing like four hours a day of training. You're trying to get it all done. Divorce happens, right? Stressed out. Right. I started a new business, the one that, you know, that we have now financially getting hurt. You know, like, I'm selling houses, I'm getting rid of things, I'm feeling all this stuff. I was stressed out. I was training too much, not eating enough, not eating nearly enough because I was so busy all the time. And I was just kind of going, maybe didn't have an appetite or whatever else, and finally wound myself up into a situation where I'm not feeling right. Yeah, I had these weird kind of symptoms happening. Like I was like, very heat and cold sensitive. I was breaking out into the hives at times and had some issues. And so again, I went to a doctor, someone saw an endocrinologist, and what did my testosterone came back at 235. You're fine. That's what he told me. You're fine.

[Brent]

What year is this?

[Tyler]

This is. Well, that was going to be when I was about 38 years old. I just turned 50, so about 12 years ago. So go back 12 years, whatever that is. 2012, I guess. 2013. 13. 2012. 2013. So that's an important question to ask in terms of, like, where was TRT then? Yeah, so there was an interesting part about that in that, like, my estrogen was also very high and there was a. There was a Question. I'm like, she said you're normal on the. You're normal on the, on the, on the testosterone at 235. I don't know a lot of things. I may not be a smart man, Jenny, but I do know what love is kind of thing. I'm like, I don't. I don't know about that. Okay. But look at me like, I'm a fit dude. Like, I'm only 38 years old here. Like, I work out, I eat healthy, all that stuff. And then it. Then I looked over the estrogen. I'm like, what about that? Like, what's going on with that? Oh, well, that's probably because of some of the supplements you're taking. That's what this dude said to me. And I'm like, what supplements? At that point I was taking, I was on creatine and protein powder. I wasn't even doing as well as I was doing now with all that stuff. I'm like. And some pre workout on occasion because I couldn't get energy to find my workouts. I was looking forward in a bottle, you know, like, give me some pre workout. I'm like, dude, there's nothing in my supplements. So he sends me to an allergist because of the hives. Because we're going to send you over to the allergist. They do the whole thing with the allergies. I ain't got no allergies. That's not a problem. So I've gone. This takes months, right, to get through this whole process. Because now you're dealing with the modern medical sick care system.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So then meanwhile, I'm training all these clients and I have this one client, he's about five years older than me, and this dude is looking good, going back to who you're seeing in the gym or whatever. And he'd been very open with me about he was on HRT and he'd found this doctor. And he had also had a similar kind of upbringing in the bodybuilding side of things. So he'd been around the block so we could have this conversation. And he goes, well, I'm seeing this doctor. And at the time it was a urologist, because that's where a lot of this, A lot of the HRT stuff started, in urology because they're dealing with dudes that are having, you know, issues. Erectile dysfunction. Right. Prostate issues, testicular cancer, things like that. Like, it was starting to show up there and the TRT thing was starting to hit the scene. And these guys figured out they could make a lot of money. A lot of money doing it and, you know, prescribing the stuff. So I went in and went through my consultation or whatever and he looks at me and he goes, what's up, dude? You know, like because of my build and whatever else, he figured I was already on stuff. That's where my estrogen was high. And I come off of it and I was looking to pick it back up.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And he thought I was probably going to be double dosing it somewhere. Like I was getting it somewhere else too. So I had to kind of developed. I didn't know where else to go. There was nowhere else for God. And I didn't want to go to the guy in the, you know, go in the gym, parking lot.

[Brent]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tyler]

I was like, I got liabilities now. I don't, I don't want to be messing with that. I don't want to go to jail. Right. Or whatever. So I go through this process. He goes, well, we finally come to an agreement. He goes, all the blood testing, whatever. And he goes, yep, your testosterone's low. Which was the answer I expected to hear and I expected to hear from him. 235 was the, was, was the testosterone at 38 years old and the estrogen was very high. And he goes, that's a problem. And he. So here was the process. And you said the word before and that was, we're gonna start with the cream, right? So you get, so you get, you get the cream or the gel and you start with that. And then if that works with that was the process, then that you went.

[Scott Howell]

Has that ever worked for anyone?

[Brent]

I've never heard.

[Tyler]

Works for females. Females really well. But let me tell you what it does to most males and I'll tell you the reasons why. With most males it doesn't work. First off, because you're way under dosing what you need. By the time it actually makes it into the system, if it does, it's way underdosed. Which for a guy who's already down regulated and already has higher estrogen. Anytime you take exogenous testosterone for a period of whatever your number is, it's probably going to reduce whatever production to some extent is going to down regulate what you're already taking, taking or what you're already getting naturally it's going to lower that. But at 235, I don't give a right. I just want my number to be up. And I wasn't chasing a number, but I was hearing guys, I think you said, you said A number before, I was hearing guys like 1500, 2000. You know, I just was like, I'm at 235, so I just need to get the needle moving here. Long story short, he gives me the cream. That takes a couple of weeks, right? I go, we're going to test you in a month, right? It's retested. Now my shit's at 137, and my estrogen's even higher, and I feel like ass.

[Scott Howell]

Did your estrogen take. Was it hot? Was your estrogen ever higher than your testosterone?

[Tyler]

Yeah, well, their numbers are different in terms of how they're. How they're represented, but I mean, yeah, way higher than it should have been. It was very disproportionate.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So basically my situation had gotten worse. Right. And so then the next thing that. So I'm going, dude, we got it. We got to work our way out of this problem, right?

[Scott Howell]

You can have this cream back.

[Tyler]

But. But I'm already. I'm like six months. Yeah, I'm like six months into this whole process. I'm just getting worse, right. Feeling like ass. I'm trying to work, trying to live, trying to get through all this stuff in my life then. So the next thing that happens is it's like, okay, well, the next thing we can do is we can move to pellets. So pellets was really hitting the scene there. And. And that's what this client I was on, or I had, was doing, and it was working really well for him. And so I'm like, okay, but one of the things I'll just kind of pause here. One of the things that happens in what was happening for a long time, and I think it's less frequent now, is that these doctors that are prescribing HRT were way under dosing it. And again, if you're already low and you're not getting enough to raise it and continue to bump you up while down regulating what you already have have. You're not moving the needle, and you could be making it worse. And in my case, that's what had happened. So I'm like, well, how much? How many pellets do I need to get? He's like, well, I'll start you with, like, three. And I forget what the milligrams were. But one of the things with pellets is once it's in there, it's in there, right?

[Brent]

Where's it go?

[Tyler]

So for me, it was. It usually goes, like, in the. It's subcutaneous, and it goes like in your butt cheek or maybe in, like, your love handle area.

[Brent]

Wait, you put a pellet in?

[Tyler]

Yeah. So I've never heard about this process. Think of like a turkey base, like a needle, right? Like a hypodermic needle. And it's really large. So they make a little incision. They stick this needle, which is basically a hollow tube, right inside. Again, it's going to go underneath in your butt cheek, maybe in like your love handle, your side area here. And then they basically put these pellets inside the tube, and they use a plunger and they push them in, right? And then they close that incision back up. And then what happens is, and they're about this size, you kind of. Kind of looks like a small grain of rice. And for each pellet, obviously that costs money. Yeah, Right. So there. There's a X amount of milligrams, depending on what you're getting, who compounded it or whatever. And the. It sort of time releases over time. And the idea behind it was you don't have to get. You don't have to inject yourself, right?

[Brent]

That sounds worse.

[Tyler]

I'll tell you why it's worse in a minute, but. And why it was way worse for me. But you don't have to inject yourself. So if you're a cop, right, or you're a firefighter, you're in the military, you're not supposed to be using needles. Needles are generally looked at as taboo, right. This gets you around that. And you don't have to have the needles hanging around the house, the kids don't find them, the wife doesn't need to know, you know, all of that kind of stuff. And you get this time release, you know, dose of testosterone over time. Well, there's problems with this, not for everybody, but there was for me, in that you'll get like, you just like anything. There's peaks and valleys, right? And I got this dose, and in the first two weeks, I was like, oh, my God, go back to putting your finger on the pulse. I was like, I feel way better. More dry, better libido, right? Sleeping better, better mood, not having mood swings, all that. All that kind of stuff that's like basically PMS system or symptoms kind of thing. I wasn't having any of that. But all of a sudden, and I wasn't supposed to be back for three months. That was great. About two weeks in until about five weeks in, but then it started to go off the other side. So finally come three months go by, get my blood test before I go See, my, my doctor and I. My testosterone level was definitely up. My estrogen was still hanging out. Out. Basically what was happening was I was aromatizing, which is I was turning that testosterone into estrogen, right. Even on my own, my own levels. But now I've got more in there. So while my testosterone was going up, my estrogen was still hanging high. So then I was like, bro, what are we gonna do about this? It's like, well, I'm gonna give you an anti estrogen or an estrogen inhibitor, right?

[Scott Howell]

Remember what they gave you for it.

[Tyler]

Was Arimidex, which was the, which is basically the generic or the, the common term for it. So I got. He puts me on some Ariba Dex, gives me three more pellets or whatever it was. I'm gonna flash forward here. So then I go back. Now my numbers are like 750. And I'm like, this is great. And my estrogen's way back down. And physically, internally, everything's feeling way better. I'm like, okay, we found the deal. And then all of a sudden, I would get these peaks. It'd be great for about four weeks. And then it was, then it'd be gone. Where guys were going four to like six months or, sorry, three to six months of getting these pellets. And they were, you know, apparently doing fine, but my body not responding, wasn't liking it that way. Now here's the other problem with the pellets. Well, they make an incision in you about the third time I went in for this process. He's going to give me more this time. He puts those things in there. He stitches me up the next day, feeling a little sore. More sore than usual. Right. Day after that, way sore. Now I'm red and hot. Worst infection I've ever had.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, yeah. Susie said hot.

[Tyler]

I ain't good. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, yeah. So. And I, I, I was trying to keep. I do. I couldn't work out. Like, I was, like, debilitated. Like, it was so sore I couldn't move. And I'm just trying to tough it out, you know, let's get through this. You need that testosterone. So anyway, I look over because it was kind of behind me, like outside of the mirror where I had really had to look and look over and like, oh, my God, like, it just dawned on me. I woke up one morning, I go, this is really bad. And my body's pushing the pellets out, rejecting them, Right. Plus I got this infection. So now I got to go back to the doctor. And have the nurse practitioner basically squeeze all that pus out of that infection.

[Brent]

That felt great.

[Tyler]

And when I was done, I was like, immediately, like within seconds was like, oh my God, that feels so much better. But there go my pellets going out into the tray or whatever. I'm like. And I should back up just a little bit and say, look, dude, I really rather. Because every time I got this, I was hurting for a few days. My body just didn't like that process. I'm like, I really like to move to the injections. I've been there before. The problem is the doctor doesn't like that because he doesn't get to charge me $800 every time I have to come back for that doctor visit. And for those pellets, which he can jack up the price on the money again, follow the money at the time, at a time where again, TRT was just sort of becoming, maybe not a lot as, as taboo and so forth. I went through this process with this dude for like a year, trying to figure it out and finally found the doctor that I'm with now.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Tyler]

And you know, he's like, well, let's get you on injections. Number one, you don't get the peaks and valleys like you get with these pellets. Right. So we're able to keep you more level. We also, once you put those pellets in, they're in there and you got to wait to see what happens. Right. You can't make an adjustment mid week outside of surgery. Yeah, yeah. You're, you're. Or getting an infection or having to push on it, start the process all over again.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So anyway, long story short, as I finally got with this guy, again, full blood panel, he's looking at it, going, here's what we're going to do. We'll compound the testosterone with the anti estrogen. Right. We'll get it in there, we'll start this process. We're not doing creams. Your experience with the cream is the same thing I've seen.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

You know, that's why I don't do it. The pellets, I can give you the pellets if that's what you want, but it doesn't seem like your body really likes that. So here's the alternative. Let's just give you the, you know, the, the injections went through that whole process within about three months. Had it completely cleaned up. Monitored it closely with him for every couple of months for about the first year and then for the last, you know, call it like eight, nine years with him. I guess it's been more like 10 kind of at this point, because it was. Yeah, I was about 40 by the time I finally found him. Been the. It's a life changer. It's a game changer. And it's that going through that process really gave me a good understanding of the things that other dudes had been through up to that point and going back to, like, the tabooness and that a lot of. I think what this doctor's issue was is, number one, it was the money, but number two, he didn't know what the hell he was doing. He was just throwing shit at the wall, expecting it to turn out. And here I come on this, like this off case. And the reason I was an off case is because clearly I was taking something else.

[Scott Howell]

Right.

[Tyler]

You know, we're doing something else.

[Scott Howell]

The truth is, with your, with your background of, of. Of taking steroids before, you knew way more than he knows now about them. Yeah, unfortunately, that was a problem. And that's a.

[Tyler]

Because I was trying to have a conversation. That's all I wanted to do is have a conversation with the guy. I wasn't trying to challenge him. I was actually trying to be really cautious with that. But it got to a point where he started to get really chill. Should be.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And, you know, like, at one point he wanted to pull me off. He did pull me off the, the. Any estrogen. And the same happened again, and he was really hesitant to give it back to him. Like, oh, dude. Like, why are we having this fight right now?

[Scott Howell]

What would you. What do you think the cause of the high estrogen is? Any. Any guess on that? What's causing your body.

[Tyler]

A couple, Couple things. Like, and this wasn't. This could be happening. Like, if your body fat, if you have really high body fat, that, that, that could be a thing that they can challenge that.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Just me as an individual. I did not have that at the time. And my body fat's certainly higher now than it was then.

[Scott Howell]

But here's something else that you have taken your body changes as well one time as you get older isn't what it does now and isn't what it reacts to now. It's.

[Tyler]

Which is such. You know, that's the important part of getting with a physician or getting with. On a program where somebody's constantly monitoring you that can help you through this process that understands what you just said. Like, okay, well, we're gonna, we're gonna turn this dial and toggle the switch over here a little Bit and we're gonna find the right formula for you. We are not chasing a number. Like, I did get to 1300 with that guy on those pellets at one point, but that 1300 was like short lived. It was never consistent, which just made my situation that much more messed up. And now with this guy, like, I ha. I'm happy right around 725. Like 685. 725. That's my number. And so I'm not chasing somebody else's number. That's like, that's my number. And it works really well for me.

[Scott Howell]

Here's, here's the other part that I really do. I really do hate this about it. And it's the haters.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

Where they, where they, they look at a fit guy like, oh, he's on steroids. And like as if it's like some sort of magic pill. And, and he's in shape. And that's. And that's why. And that's why you're not.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

Steroids is, it's like. No. Which is odd. We're sitting here talking about it like it's like the magic pill. Because it is.

[Brent]

Can be.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, it can be. It rewards you for hard work and learning. And what was really difficult before, before I got back on it was there was no reward for me in the gym. Like, in fact, there was only disappointment to be had in the gym.

[Tyler]

Seemingly everything you tried was not working.

[Scott Howell]

Right. To come in dragging ass, forcing myself in the gym, getting no results from hard work. Which really. You keep doing that long enough. Which is what happened to me. Why am I going to the gym? Like as, as, as someone like, like you at the time. Family business. I got more things to do. You'll eventually just cut the gym out. Which is the wrong answer.

[Tyler]

That is exactly right. So now it's harsh.

[Scott Howell]

You actually get a reward for the work. You put in steroids alone. I'm not gonna say we'll do nothing for you because if you're, if you're, if you're low T. Like you need to get it anyway whether you're in the gym or not. But it really goes back to that, that guy that, that, that's really feel like, oh, he's on steroids. Yeah. He also eats cleaner than you do. He also works, gets here before you do, stays after you do. And yes. Happens to be on steroids.

[Tyler]

So many, so many compounding factors there. You're right. I mean, again, just like people blaming their hormones. Hormones for their problem. Right. When it's A shitty lifestyle. Stop with the hormone stuff. Like, let's look at your lifestyle and all these foundations or fundamentals that you're not applying or practicing. And the other side of that spectrum is, oh, the only reason that guy looks like that or he's in shape is because of hormones. Right. Because of the steroids. Look, again, I already said I was very honest about this. Yes, I've done other steroids, androgenic and anabolic steroids. They work. Yeah. Going back to how much do I want to pay to get a certain result? Did I feel great on those? No, I can tell you, I did not feel good on those. There was a lot of. There were things that happened there and people. The other thing, I think going back to stigmatism or stigmatizing, you know, the use of HRT is like, oh, you're gonna. You're gonna freak out, you're gonna be aggressive or whatever.

[Scott Howell]

I think you brought that up.

[Tyler]

Yeah. So, like, if you're already an.

[Brent]

You're just gonna be a better.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, you just.

[Tyler]

You might be a happier one, but you're just gonna be that much more of an asshole. Right.

[Scott Howell]

I'm. Here's my take on that. And the older I get, the, the more I believe. I've always kind of feel like I've been right on this, the whole roid rage thing. And as. As a younger man, my 20s, you know, people like, oh, like, you know, you have to be careful of this. You know, when, you know, all your other friends, that fear of it. And here's the truth about it. That dude that you're saying, oh, he's on steroids and. And now he's eat. Now he's in, raging out because. Because of steroids. No. I'm gonna talk a little bit in extremes, but it's true. That dude was 170 pounds and he was a weak, timid guy and. And was just an unconfident. Now he's £220 and boss getting attention. And he's getting attention. And now he thinks he can beat you up. And now he thinks you deserve to give him respect that, you know, that he's not getting. And now if he wants to dominate you, he can. He's not. He's not now. Right. Or think.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

Thinks he can. Yeah. Steroids, like higher testosterone didn't do that to him. Being a bigger person now allows that personality trait to shine through. But there's no such thing as roid rage.

[Tyler]

Yeah. I mean, again, if you're already a dick, you're probably it could make you.

[Brent]

It's just all HRT did for me was optimize what I wanted to do. So like I want dude. I was just a pathetic dude. I mean I can go into details, but I was not. Like, I look back and I can't put a. I can't put anything on. Like, I can't say I did this for X when I use. But when you take TRT and you look back at two years and you look at who you've become.

[Tyler]

The quality of your life.

[Brent]

Yeah, quality of your life. That your successes, how you treat people like. I mean I, I couldn't suggest it anything else other than that.

[Tyler]

Yeah. There's so many things again, going back to putting your finger on like what it is and the downstream effects again, having more drive is one of the major things that comes with it. That think about all the things that make you a dude. Right. That's testosterone is going to help you do those things. Right. Whatever makes you makes you a dude again. Like being an asshole is not being a dude. That's not part of it.

[Brent]

It's not, you know, that's not manly at all.

[Tyler]

It is like it's actually cowardly. Yes. In a lot of ways. And it's childish. Yeah, absolutely. So if you're already a man child, right. And you put that stuff into anabolic steroids or testosterone or whatever in any combination, put that into a man child. Well, now you just have a bigger man child. Right. And that's your. You're gonna have to babysit that person if they can't self regulate. Right. And so that's honestly obviously kind of where that comes from. And then there's the whole macho part.

[Brent]

Of it that I think is steroids. We've been. Because we know the difference between steroids and testosterone. But I want to make clear to anybody listening that I feel like if you take that type of person and you give them 2000 the level of testosterone, that's how they're. My belief system is HRT will long term change that childish man into a man.

[Tyler]

It's interesting where it shows up for people in life. So again, I told you I was like nearing 40. And there's a lot of things that are changing for people 40 and it's not for everybody. Not everybody needs this. Right. But for a lot of men, they do. Women need it too. Right. Testosterone replacement therapy for women can often offset the challenges that exist with estrogen and progesterone and the things that come along as they're aging too. Another Topic another podcast. But the, but the point of that being is you are right, it's coming at a time where they are fully matured and usually at a place in life where things weigh the heaviest, right? And they're challenged the most. They're not physically, they're not the same as they used to be. They don't have the same amount of energy. But they have stacked all this liability on their mid career. They have kids that are whatever, they're expensive, right? And they take a lot of time and they have a relationship that they've been in for several years and they have a, again, they have a boss that they haven't liked for 10 years. It's just kind of a bunch of compounding things. And if you, if you were doing a good job of dealing with things all the way up through that point, then you're probably going to be fine. But if you've been neglecting things, kind of putting things on the back burner, including yourself, that health, getting to the gym and feeling shitty about doing it and whatever, it catches up. I mean, again, it's not for everybody. That's what I would say in terms of my endorsement of it's not for everybody. You need to make sure you're with a good reputable doc or group of docs that knows what they're doing and isn't just willy nilly prescribing the stuff because that could have equally as detrimental effects. I just told you that, I just told you my story about how somebody that didn't know what the hell they were doing made it really, really bad for me over a couple of year period and now here I am. It took me a couple years to get myself out of that hole and now it's, you know, now I'm very, I'm acutely aware of where I am on a regular basis.

[Scott Howell]

Well, I respectfully disagree. It's for everyone. Everyone get on it. More testosterone, the better it'll change.

[Brent]

It'll make the world a better place.

[Scott Howell]

Well, I don't want to, you know, beat a dead horse, but I'm glad we spent that much time on it because it's so taboo that I think there's people that can, that can. It's getting less taboo and we're getting to a point where people can talk about it. So we should talk about it because of all the benefits it has.

[Brent]

Are we getting off? Trt, I just have one more question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think in the industry. I'm looking at both sides. My dad, he's like 60, and he's. He got all of a sudden his insurance. We're like, oh, we're gonna only cover this much now. And I'm seeing on one side of the spectrum, the industry's like, we're not doing this anymore. On the other side of the spectrum, you're seeing clinics pop up left and right. And so it's like, almost like you're in the middle. You're like, the medical world's telling me that we're gonna shut this down. This is bad. And then the free world. Not free world, but the market is saying, like, absolutely.

[Tyler]

So this kind of goes back to the supplement thing, right? In fitness, just in general. And, like, the information that's out there, because it's becoming a little less taboo. There's more information out there, which means it gets more conflated. Right. And more confusing for people. And they don't know where to go. And then they go to their buddy who's on it to get their information about it, and then that just, like they got about their supplements or whatever, that becomes a problem. Going back to the free market versus the medical complex that's doing this. Here's the thing, though, with TRT now, in terms of insurance and who's paying for it, first off, this is a bigger statement, but people need to stop depending on their insurance to take care of their health.

[Brent]

Amen.

[Tyler]

Just stop that. That's not what it's built to do. Yeah, it just isn't. And I'll just put a hard period on the end of that. Like it's not right.

[Scott Howell]

Do you expect them to buy your protein powder?

[Tyler]

Come on. Come on, man. The second part of it is now, in terms of how much it costs to go through this process and actually get a prescription for this and have the convenience of it delivered to your door or whatever, and the safety nets that are there now, in terms of total cost, what is your insurance really, really paying for? In the end, like, it's not much more than a copay. I can tell you right now. My monthly cost for my Testosterone prescription is $100 a month. That's what I pay, 100 bucks a month. Ask me what my copay is or what my co pays are, and my premiums that I gotta meet, my monthly health insurance payment is that I never use. I don't. The only reason I have a health insurance policy, in case I walk outside this building and get hit by a bus.

[Brent]

Yeah, right.

[Tyler]

Catastrophic injury or something. I'm afflicted with some horrible disease or Whatever.

[Brent]

And you're still gonna pay, still gonna go bankrupt.

[Tyler]

I was just talking. You're still gonna have to go fundraise, right. And start a GoFundMe. It isn't that much money. So on that, like, you're stepping, it's, it's kind of the old saying, like you're stepping over $100 bills to pick up pennies in the, in the, in the business world with this. Like, it isn't that much.

[Scott Howell]

Well, I think it's a natural progression really. Because if you think about it, insurance companies are going to start pushing back on it it. Because the more and more and more people who, who want to get on it, which is happening, the more they're doling out. And so at some point it was, it wasn't, it wasn't a big thing to them, like, yeah, we'll pay for this here and there and here and there. But as it becomes a, you know, holistically much bigger bill for the insurance companies, I, I do believe they'll pay less of it or, or drop it altogether.

[Tyler]

Yeah, it could be, it could be like what insurance does pay for is like some of the, the, the, you know, urine tests and, and blood tests that I do. So I, you know, on occasion, every few months, I pay for that. It doesn't pay for my co. Copay. I actually go see my doctor on a regular because I love having a conversation face to face conversation with them. I pay for that. I'm happy to do it. Why? I'm in the service business too. Right. Like, I'm paying for that dude's time. So tell me how much that costs and I'll write you a check every few months to get me right or keep me. Right. Like that makes sense to me.

[Scott Howell]

I looked into it it for what I pay for. Hptrt a month.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

I spend in white monsters.

[Tyler]

That's, that's my point. Go back to 100 bucks a month. What is that?

[Scott Howell]

And true. And if it's. And if it's that important, you know, I'm, I can luckily afford both, but if it ever comes to a point, I'm gonna cut one out or the other. Like, as much as I love white monsters, this is a big statement. White monsters have to go. Like you can find something you're spending that is way more of a luxury item rather than something that's truly beneficial for you.

[Brent]

I love how you said white monsters too. He does not. White monsters is the monster.

[Scott Howell]

I don't, I don't know why they make other ones I really don't.

[Tyler]

I feel you. Let me just add this one thing, too. I can tell you where you can find that money. It's in. You've been majoring in the. Not you, but people major in the margins or in the minors. And so if I bet if I walked into that person that's complaining about how much it costs, I can also walk into their kitchen and open up one of those cabinets or just look on the counter and you got 500 bucks worth of worthless supplements or worthless sitting there.

[Scott Howell]

Goes back to the beginning of what I said, why I went.

[Tyler]

That's what I want to say.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm really. I'm really glad you did. It's. With this podcast has gone. It's gonna be a little longer than a little bit of our normal. But I'm. And we're not in a rush. Yeah, I'll say that.

[Tyler]

That.

[Scott Howell]

But I do want to move to some other things that. About you that I want to. I want to highlight. So from a guy, a Californian that's, you know, in. Into. Into fitness, no military background, no police background, you get into guns. I mean, your podcast is called the, you know, the Front sights. I'm sorry, Iron Sights podcast. So it's something that's. That you really got into. How'd you get into the gun industry?

[Tyler]

So the story goes like, guns were a part of my upbringing, but not to a major extent. Like, we were taught to respect them, be safe, use them properly. That was about the extent of it. I always really look forward to going out and shooting with my dad and my uncles and stuff like that. Right. So I'm a gym owner. I live in California. We have a business. It was doing great. We were having a really great time, and we're starting to reap the fruits of our labor, you know, kind of thing. And then this thing called Covid comes along. In California, the businesses that were shut down or told to shut down first were salons and gyms. And so the governor comes over the top and said, every gym. And they start shutting down a lot of other businesses, too. But apparently gyms and salons were the reason Covid was spreading in California. That was a big problem for everybody. So having a gym. And so when I say gym, to give some context to it, it is a personal health and fitness services business. It's everybody. Every. If you come in, you're being coached through something, through lifestyle, nutrition, personal training. We have group training classes or whatever. So it's highly. It's not swipe your card Come and use the equipment, pay your monthly dues, and walk out.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Tyler]

A lot of my friends have those businesses. Nothing wrong with that business. That type of business. I worked in that. Worked in that business. My. You know, for. Again, it's been 25 years. So I was in. I worked for a very large company for 10 years in that business. Nothing wrong with that. That's the. That's the. The fundamental ends of our business. So when you shut that down, like, you are now taking away those personalized services from those people and taking money out of every person that works inside that business, because the clients aren't training, they're not coming to their sessions. Right. We're not getting paid. Right. And so that happened in, like, February of 2020. Everybody remembers Covid. We were drowning, just trying to figure out how we were going to survive.

[Brent]

And it was so sad.

[Scott Howell]

Dude, I know. God, I could complain for 30 minutes on that topic.

[Tyler]

It was so hard. We were scrambling. So looks like anybody else, we're like, we got to have some online business, which we had toyed around with in the past, but we had recently. Recently expanded our business, and we kind of stepped away from that. So we had to kind of switch all that back on all of a sudden, like every other person was doing, and try to put together some online products, services, get involved in the community. In fact, we did right away. So part of what we do, we do blood testing for or within the gym. We have some services where we send kits out in and kits out to labs and do stuff. And we were working with a lab that actually had a Covid antibody test that had just been given emergency use authorization. And so at the time we were being told, if you have the antibodies, you are likely. You likely will not get the virus. Right? And so people wanted to know. And I was like, well, people wanted to know. I want to know because everybody had been sick, like, the previous December and January. Like, we want to know if we're safe from this thing or if we need to can I see my dead, my dying grandma? You know, kind of thing, all that kind of stuff. So we actually ran some testing in the gym for a while in those first couple of months to help people understand that. Then the George Floyd events happened that summer, and things got a little nuts. This comes to the question of how I got deep into the firearms industry. So I'm watching on the tv, it's like the weekend after the George Floyd incident. I'm sitting on the couch about two blocks from the gym with. With CeCe and our two girls. And we're watching the news, which is happening, being filmed in front of City hall, and all the protesters starting to show up, right? All the law enforcement starting to show up and watching the helicopter views and some of the stuff that's going on in the street. And as soon as that first dumpster got lit on fire and that car got pushed out into the street, the local law enforcement handled that shit decisively. I mean, that's exactly what I said. Good. Look at that. We're talking. People are taking rubber bullets. There's. There's, you know, there's stuff happening out there. And I live in the Bay Area, and I want to be really clear about this. This part of the story. And that is what was happening in downtown San Jose, California, was not the same shit that was happening like in Kenosha or, you know, Minneapolis or, you know, some of those other. Other cities. And. But to me, what I was seeing, remember, I was just watching what was happening in those other places. They were burning cities down. I was looking at it, and as soon as those people started getting pushed out of the downtown area, we are exactly a mile and a half down the exact same street that city hall sits on in the. In the downtown area. And we started seeing those people start moving down. And I was watching, I was going, holy. In about 10 minutes, they're going to be in front of our business and they were breaking, slighting cars on fire, breaking windows and whatever in the downtown area.

[Scott Howell]

Like water. They're going to move to the path.

[Tyler]

They're going. Exactly, exactly. And we had already been, like, drowning and watching our. Our financial health get wrecked, our physical health get wrecked, that of our employees in the same way that of our clients the same way. You know, these are people, these are like family to us. I'm like, I'll be damned if I'm gonna let my business go up.

[Brent]

This is a lot. No, that.

[Tyler]

That's exactly what it was. No, that is not gonna happen. So, grabbed a couple firearms, the couple that I had, and packed, threw them on my backpack, threw in a couple of beers, some food, and I went down to the. To the gym. And I posted up in my front lobby, which is all plate glass windows, faces the main boulevard there, tv, which is above that front window, turned that out. I was just kind of monitoring what was going on. I put a full size H and K USP 45 on the. On the coffee table that's right there in front, full view of the front window. I stuck it right there on the Table. And I made eye contact with every shitbag that walked by my front window.

[Brent]

Good for you. God, that's the most American thing I've ever heard.

[Tyler]

Kind of, kind of, kind of, kind of.

[Scott Howell]

And this is what I hate about that.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Scott Howell]

You didn't have to use it.

[Tyler]

I didn't have to use it. Thank God.

[Scott Howell]

Thank thankful.

[Tyler]

Thank God. And that was kind of where the story turns. Because in my mind, I was going down there to protect my business. It was a very emotional reaction, but the decision in and of itself was very immature in a lot of ways. And I don't mean like protecting your business, your life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness is immature. My thought process was immature because it was not well developed ahead of time. I was not prepared for that situation. I had food at home. We'd already. We had plenty of toilet paper, in case anybody was wondering. Like, we had plenty of that during COVID Like, I had food at home. We had water. We had, you know, fuel. We had things. But I was not prepared for what may have happened.

[Scott Howell]

And I'm not even going down that road necessarily when I say kind of what you did 100 was morally right. Morally right. But if you had to use that firearm against someone that was more than willing to burn down your business, even.

[Tyler]

With you in it, I'd be in prison.

[Scott Howell]

You'd be in prison right now.

[Brent]

You'd be doing this over collect calls.

[Tyler]

I'd be in prison. Business would be ruined. My family would have been. My family would have been doxed. Like, it would have been all over the papers, and it would have been. It would have been.

[Scott Howell]

And you'd have been the. The villain for protecting what's. What's. What's yours.

[Brent]

And you work because people say it's a building. No, that's your livelihood. That's your whole life. It's everything, man, in that building.

[Tyler]

And. And keep in mind, for the previous four months, I was watching it getting taken away from us, right? Like, and I was watching how it was impacting my family, the kids and me, right? Really pissed off. Really pissed off. So, again, going back to being immature in the process. Like, it was an emotional slash visceral response to go down there and do that. And I camped out there for a few days and. But also realizing, like, dude, I just left my family two blocks from here, sitting on the couch at home, nothing. The hell am I doing? Right?

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Like, okay, let's say somebody, a group of people try to come through, like, how is this really going to work out? Like, I know how to shoot this thing, I know how to reload it, I know how to maintain it or whatever. But I'm not, I would not say skilled at this. I have some level of skill, but I was and I wasn't. I didn't have like, see preconceived notion of immediately turning to John Wick if somebody came in there. But my point being is like, okay, if I have to use this, I know how to use it. But the point is, is I recognize real fast. Like, I do not ever want to feel like this again. And yeah, what is it, what is it going to take for me to not feel like this again? That's kind of where the exploration of.

[Scott Howell]

The farms and you've had big names of, of shooters, tactical shooters, retired special operation guys like on, on your podcast.

[Tyler]

It's, it started with conversations. And you know, I jokingly said, you know, when I was recognizing that the fitness and firearms training industry was very much the same in the firearms industry at large. I'd gone to, I'd gone to social media to try to like, okay, where do I learn more about these guys that I see out there doing these trainings? And, and they're on Instagram or on YouTube or whatever else. And so it started just with conversations. Cause I was recognizing these weird conversations were happening and I was trying to be a little bit more pragmatic about my approach, not just jumping in head first to anything. So I was reaching out to those instructors or various people, all kinds of people, just going, hey, what are your thoughts on this? Why is that guy over there so pissed off at this guy over here? That guy wore a green beret and that guy wore a maroon beret and they hate one another. I can't figure this out.

[Brent]

Makes a very good pocket podcast.

[Tyler]

So at the time, we had also started the fitness side of the podcast again to promote our fitness products or whatever. And I was doing this training and going out and having these experiences while studying the people in the industry and all that stuff. And I was, I was having some really good, like intellectual, smart conversations. And I just kind of had a hunch. I go. Because I couldn't find them anywhere else. I was having them.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

But I was like, I got a good product.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

I wonder if anybody else would be interested in listening to this stuff. And as it turned out, I was right about the hunch.

[Scott Howell]

I like your, your mindset about it and that you did it because there's always reasons not to do something if you're, if you want to find Them. You'll find them. And you could have said, hey, like, I don't want to do this. Like, this isn't. This isn't my background. This isn't my forte. Like, I shouldn't be, like, someone with that background. And I look at it from the different perspective and say, sometimes, because that is, like, our background, there are times we don't ask certain questions that end up, like, in the comment section, like, what is this? What is this? And so you get to ask, like, all the questions that people who don't know about it are wondering, because you're wondering about it too genuinely, because it's not your background. It's not a.

[Tyler]

It's.

[Scott Howell]

It's not a negative thing. It's a. It's a positive thing.

[Brent]

And you know, you have a good podcast when people will tell you, I remember when I saw you, and, like, one was the Reuben one. I remember that was when I found out, like, found your podcast. And so, yeah, you're doing everything right.

[Tyler]

I appreciate it. I think it has been helpful just that it did come from a very. These words get, like, used as cliche or get termed as cliched all the time. But it is very genuine and authentic in the sense that I was just trying to be a student. I knew how to ask questions. The fitness industry, life, mom, dad, whatever. But fitness industry specifically taught me two really important skills. The ones I think that are the most important skills that anybody can have. Like, in communication, that's. Learn how to question skillfully and listen carefully. And if you just practice that, you will find out a lot about people, a lot about the thing you're trying to study, and it helps you formulate the right question to get the answer that you're really looking for. And so what I wound up doing was starting to have those conversations with people, which led to more conversations.

[Brent]

That's a sticker, by the way, just so you know. That's a good sticker.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Go put it on a T shirt. You can own it. You put a refractive.

[Scott Howell]

What is it again? I'm gonna try. I'm gonna screw it up.

[Tyler]

Question skillfully.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Tyler]

And listen carefully.

[Brent]

I like it.

[Tyler]

I mean, because that's what I was doing every day with clients or people coming into the gym that wanted to solve their problem, whatever it was. And so you have to go through this process. So that's really just what I've used. And it's led to this journey of being able to share other people's stories while I get to learn about it. And it's really touched a lot of people. I mean, I never thought I would be talking to, like, these guys in law enforcement about all kinds of different things or even, again, guys that have military experiences, tier one operators. Right. Guys that have worked on these really special teams that I was only finding out about kind of through the interwebs and trying to kind of figure it all out. So it's been an interesting space. It's been uber rewarding. And to your point, you know, deciding to do it, like, meant a very large investment in time and money. I do not make a bunch of money doing the podcast. It drives some traffic to my fitness products at the gym, you know, but more importantly, it's helped me build relationships. And at this point in my life, again, I already said, like, I'm 50 years old. There's nothing more important to me than how I spend my time and the people that I spend it with, with kind of thing. And as long as somebody else can extract value from whatever conversation I happen to have be having with somebody, then it makes it worth it for me. And we're trying to do some things from a monetary perspective to make it work. Make sense.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And I'm trying to do that again so it doesn't seem disingenuous, which is a very tough thing to do, particularly in this industry.

[Scott Howell]

Right.

[Tyler]

Because you don't want to marry yourself, anybody or anything you can't walk yourself back from or whatever.

[Scott Howell]

But it's been a cool ride on the podcast almost. In life in general. I like how you say question skillfully, because I think one of the. One of the dumbest quotes that people say is, there's no such thing as a stupid question. Absolutely there is. There's a ton of stupid questions. Stupid people ask stupid questions all the time.

[Tyler]

All the time.

[Scott Howell]

Don't ask the first question that comes in your head sometimes. Just shut up and. And if you waited five more minutes, you'll get it. Or don't you talk about time? Right? Like, when you're asking someone a question, you're asking, you're asking for their time and their knowledge. If it's something that's so silly that is clearly, just Google it, like I am. I will always answer the question, but that's it. It's tough. It's tough to field stupid questions.

[Brent]

You got to pay more than 199 on the Super Chat.

[Tyler]

Yeah. God, that Super Chat's such a great idea. But it's about respecting who you're asking the question of to and doing your homework and I don't mean doing your homework of that person, but of the things that they do. And you don't have to have done what they did. I'm never ever going to be a law enforcement officer. Like, I'm never ever going to be a Delta Force operator. Like, but I can learn about what it is that they do and ask questions that make sense not to hear cool stories. I'm sure you got a ton of them. I'm not really that interested in those. What I'm interested in is what makes the person tick. And there's always gonna be a specific route. I don't just have people on the sake of having them on always. My goal is to provide value to the audience. And I really believe, again, sticking to some basic principles, again, question skill. If you listen carefully, provide value to the audience. Do it from a genuine place of interest and, and, and curiosity. And I think part of the thing that's helped me with a little bit of that is maybe having a little bit of skill there. But at the same time, like, I'm kind of like Switzerland. Like, I haven't really pissed anybody off, at least none that I know of. Right. Being a white belt is actually a cool place to be. I really enjoy, like, sometimes knowing nothing about the top topic that we're going to go and talk about, about the thing that that person does and just be like, dude, tell me, tell me about this.

[Scott Howell]

So, yeah, absolutely. Well, now, now's the time to shamelessly promote yourself. Let, and I say it half, half jokingly, but let people know where people are going to hear you and they're gonna, you know, people do want to get advice from people that they, they trust and they're gonna hear you, you know, your story and everything you've said. Like, I want advice from that guy. How, you know, how do they contact you either in the fitness world and on the fitness podcast and the iron sights, tell them where to find you.

[Tyler]

I appreciate that.

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Tyler]

Yeah, there's a couple spots. So obviously the business is called Red Dot Fitness. You can find it on Instagram, redfitness. We got a website there. It's rdftrainonline.com super easy to find us. There's all kinds of stuff you can find out about us there and just contact us. You can contact us at any spot. The podcast, Ironsides Podcast is on all the platforms. So we're on the Spotify and Apple and certainly YouTube. You can get me on my Instagram. I'm pretty active there. Everything you see happening on the Instagram side on Ironsides is me. So I don't have other people responding or whatever. I do my very best to get back to people so they can always hit me there. The show, we drop three episodes a week. I don't think that everybody knows that Mondays is all health and fitness related.

[Brent]

Is this Iron Sights?

[Tyler]

This is. It's all on Ironsides. It's usually me and the crew from the gym. I have some highly qualified, super passionate coaches in a team that have been in the business a long time, had a lot of experiences. So we talk about all kinds of stuff. Supplements. I mean, you asked questions about the trt. We've done episodes on just about everything. Wednesday, I do an episode with another group of guys I'm working with called in Extremist Performance. It's human performance meets the shooting world, particularly for law enforcement guys. Law enforcement people really focused on helping that community understand what they need to be doing to be a higher performer. You know, you go back to the sprinting and the lifting and stuff. And then on Fridays is the After Dark episodes where we had Brent on and a lot of guys, or a lot of folks. When I say guys, that's just my colloquial term of saying people. All kinds of stuff, man. I mean, we've got law enforcement, firefighters, entrepreneurs, ex, you know, vets, all kinds of people. We talk about all kind of topics.

[Brent]

Dude, the most impressive thing in this entire podcast is the fact that you can have content for three episodes a week.

[Scott Howell]

Oh, I know you guys know the preparation.

[Tyler]

That's because. Let me give this dude a plug. That's Eli Elfman. Eli's 8482 media. You won't see him doing anything on Instagram because we keep him so damn busy in the background. He didn't have time for that. But if there was no Eli, there was. Would be no Iron Sights. Eli's a man. Yeah, you got to have one of those. Like you're Drew.

[Scott Howell]

Yes, absolutely. Well, the last thing I'll ask you is, do you have a funny story for us?

[Tyler]

So Cece. Cece's like, hey, you better be ready, bro. I like to ask this question at the end of the thing. So I honestly said to her last night, I go, I don't know what I'm going to tell. Do I have any funny stories? But since it was a lot of this was health and fitness related, just going back to my career path, I started as a coach, right? As a trainer, just like a lot of people do. And I made all the mistakes all kind of trainers make and then eventually ended up like managing crews and running clubs, until eventually I had worked with guys where we had. Over. There was four of us, and we ran over 400 health clubs. And so I had all these funny experiences, but the one that seems to always come up for me is one of the ones that happened in my first few years. I was kind of the lead trainer in this gym. We were in this little. For people that know San Luis Obispo, California, it's gorgeous little town. It's awesome. Yeah. You nine year old over there, you know about slow.

[Scott Howell]

I do. I've done research from people from that place.

[Tyler]

Yeah, it's an amazing spot.

[Scott Howell]

They gave us people like Tim Kennedy.

[Tyler]

We can talk about that. We can talk about that later.

[Brent]

So.

[Tyler]

But the. Anyway, so I'm in this little gym and it was. It was kind of a. It was a more senior community, and we were kind of making names for ourselves. Like, we were young guys, but they were. There were the trainers there, but we were. We could relate to the. To the folks and they were having a good time. So all of a sudden we were having this kind of. This influx of like, let's just call the over 60s come in.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Tyler]

So we'd always take people through this assessment process, right? That was the thing that, really the thing that I was learning that is like, how do you get people, get information, give information and then sell people shit, right? Sell them some personal training, sell them a gym membership. So I had this little. This little old lady, and I say old. She seemed old to me because I was only like 23 or whatever at the time. And I take her into the office, and we got the office and the door's closed, and we're going through all the questions. And part of what we did was we take blood pressure.

[Scott Howell]

Okay?

[Tyler]

So she's sitting, like, she's sitting on one end of the desk and I'm facing her, and the desk drawers are on my other side. So if I'm facing her on the left, the drawers are over on the right and the blood pressure cuff is down in the drawer. So I kind of prepped her. I said, hey, we're gonna go through this process, and then I am gonna take your blood pressure. He said, oh, yeah, I do that at the doctor's office all the time. You know, that's cool. I have good blood pressure. I'm like, great, this is gonna go good. So I get to that point and I'm like, hey, so, okay. So I'm Gonna take your blood pressure now. And as I'm telling her that, I'm also reaching over, kind of fumbling through the drawer, and I get the blood pressure cuff.

[Scott Howell]

Okay.

[Tyler]

Out of my hands. I stick it onto the desk. I reach down, grab something else that's at the bottom. By the time I got back up and turned around, this lady had her shirt off. Sitting. Sitting at the desk. She had a sweatshirt on, right. But she had pulled her shirt off, and she was. She was butt. Ass naked from the top up. And I turned around, and I don't know what the look on my face was, but I tried to keep it together. I was like, oh, it's okay. I can't remember her name. I was like, that's okay. You can keep the shirt. You can keep the shirt on. It's fine. She's like, oh, okay. Well, this is what the doctor makes me do when I go to the office. When she goes to the doctor, she gets into a smock. Yeah, right. But she's sitting there in my office with the door closed, Naked. Naked.

[Scott Howell]

And I. Oh, Martha.

[Tyler]

Yeah, exactly. That's pretty much what I want. So by the time I. I basically got myself together and could sweat off my brow or whatever. We got it. We got her done. That was my first experience. To make sure I tell people when they come in for their blood pressure. You don't have to take your clothes off for that. We could do this one fully clean.

[Scott Howell]

That's a little necessary information. No, you don't know.

[Tyler]

Someone's gotta say, you guys saw something about Mary. Remember that? Yeah, that's pretty much what it was.

[Scott Howell]

I'm gonna go off script a little bit just because it reminds me. And I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell you a funny story, and it has to do with the gym. Gym. So I told you I worked out at a home gym. We had a pretty decent home gym growing up. And Now I'm like, 18 years old, working at the feed store with my brother Drew. And we're going to a real gym now. So we. I think we plat. Yeah. Platinum gym. Because we lived. We moved out of the house. I moved out at, like, 17. 18. And so now we have to find a gym. We go to this gym. It's my. I think my first time at this gym. Gym. I go to the bench press, and I tell you, I wasn't a big man. I probably had 25s or 35s, you know, on. On the bench press. Drew, I want to know if you remember this story. First time there, Big Boy Gym. I go to the. The only bench that's open. And the arms it has are just like these little U arms where the. Like the back is just as high as the front. Not like the big. Where you can just throw it, you know, throw it back.

[Tyler]

Ask me, ask me how I know about those.

[Scott Howell]

So I'm done with my quick rep. I too quickly go to put it up on the rack, and one side of it completely misses. It goes over the rack, bang, bang, bang, bang. It falls off. Everyone in the gym stops and looks at the idiot who can't re rack his bench press. And basically I put all the weights back. I put the bar back up. I went to Drew, who drove us there. I said, drew, can I get the keys? I'll be in the truck. You're that guy sat in the trucker, worked out for an hour.

[Tyler]

Did you ever go back?

[Scott Howell]

Yeah, I did go back, but not that day.