National Tactical Officers Association (Washington DC)

Summary

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The Antihero Podcast: National Tactical Officers Association (Washington DC)

Date: September 15, 2025
Host: The Antihero Podcast Team

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Episode Overview

This episode takes listeners inside the 2025 National Tactical Officers Association (NTOA) conference in Washington, DC—a gathering point for law enforcement, military, and tactical technology industries. The Antihero Podcast crew brings their signature irreverence (“an appropriate level of inappropriateness”) and honest discussions through lightning-round interviews and firsthand explorations of new gear and technology—from cutting-edge K9 tactical equipment to innovative drone-based site modeling and more. The episode captures a boots-on-the-ground look at the current climate for tactical officers, how technology is impacting field operations, and the evolving culture of law enforcement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Current State and Culture of Law Enforcement

• Recruitment and Morale:
  Early banter highlights a tough recruiting environment and cultural headwinds—“People want to see their sausage get made. They want people to not want to be cops, and the people that do want to be cops are now walking into the job, scared to do the job.” (Phil, [00:38])
• Pride and Camaraderie:
  Repeated shouts of “JV team for life” and playful SWAT trivia echo the value of brotherhood and humor in maintaining morale.

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2. Lightning Rounds: Knowledge, Camaraderie, and SWAT Pride

• Inside Jokes & SWAT Lingo:
  Ongoing quick-fire questions blend levity with testing SWAT credentials:
  • “Curls or bench?”
    “Bench.” / “Wrong. Curls.”
    (Tyler & John, [02:07])
  • “What does SWAT stand for?”
    “Special Weapons and Tactics.” (multiple, [03:07], [17:21], [27:45])
  • “Who’s better, Delta Force or SEAL Team Six? And why is it Delta Force?”
    “Delta Force and integrity.” (John, [03:00])
• History Trivia:
  “Name the first three presidents of the United States.” A surprisingly tough one for SWAT officers on the floor. (Multiple, [04:26], [17:53], [27:45])

Memorable Quote:
“Curls or oxygen? Because you need oxygen to do the curls. You got it. You watch the show.”
—Tyler & John, [02:23]

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3. Technology & Gear Showcases

a. K9 Tactical Equipment – Dark Systems

• K9 Helmets & Hearing Protection:
  Lena from Dark Systems details modular K9 helmets for various breeds, including passive and active hearing protection—“Their ears are more sensitive than ours, so it makes sense to protect them.” (Lena, [06:54])
• Integrated Cameras & Marking Systems:
  Stabilized dog-mounted cameras, ATAC compatibility, and tactical markers to track search/rescue dogs or mark hazards.
• Defensive Lighting:
  Strobe systems to protect K9s in room-clear scenarios—“…can just give him some more seconds by blinding the enemy.” (Lena, [10:54])

Memorable Quote:
“It’s really hard to imagine what the dog is seeing. So now… you see like through the lenses what is going on in front of the dog.”
—Lena, [08:16]

b. Human Performance / TRT for Operators

• Testosterone & Stress:
  Discussion about how tactical stress, shift work, and adrenaline dumps affect testosterone levels—
  “You are already way behind the power curve. You should be between 900, 800 to a thousand at 30.” (Tyler, [13:34])
• Navigating Healthcare Roadblocks:
  Barriers to treatment, insurance denials, importance of finding supportive practitioners.

c. Camera and Entry Tools – Tactical Electronics & Holmatro

• Pole & Under-Door Cameras:
  Curtis demonstrates compact cameras combining thermal/visual sensors, allowing safe searches without physical exposure—“Instead of an operator sticking their head in an attic space… we designed this to be Superman portable.” (Curtis, [19:57])
• Hydraulic Entry Tools:
  John presents the T1 and a hydraulic ram, combining multiple breaching functions for rapid solo entries.
  • “100 to 1 mechanical advantage versus a 15 to 1… on a classic Halligan Bar.” (John, [23:00])
  • “One guy does the whole system. You don’t need a second guy to run a sledge.” (John, [23:55])

d. Advanced Site Modeling – Reveal Technology

• 3D Mapping from Drone Feeds:
  Mike showcases “Farsight,” quick-deploy 3D modeling for tactical planning and after-action analysis—
  • Planning public events (e.g. President Trump rally site post-incident)—“I can drop the pin where the President was and enable his line of sight… now I get a true representation of what his line of sight [was].” (Mike, [38:07])
  • Noting vulnerabilities: “Anything left in green are gaps… literally, the sliver where security can’t see. And we have technology that could have kept this from happening.” (Mike & Tyler, [41:07])

Memorable Quote:
“It almost be impossible to get that type of information without it—it’s amazing.”
—Tyler, [39:15]

e. Weapon Lights & Illumination – Cloud Defensive

• Company Overview:
  Matt runs down Cloud Defensive’s trajectory from switches to full weapon lights, featuring ambidextrous design and redundancy for field reliability.
• Upcoming Products:
  Discussion of pistol lights, concealed carry adaptations, and built-in cable management—“Door frames are going to be your number one enemy when it comes to those cables.” (Matt, [31:46])

f. Training Tools – Unit Solutions

• Non-Lethal Training Systems:
  Zach describes CO2-powered marking rifles and pistols offering realism and safety—“Not a drop-in bolt conversion kit… only fires pneumatic CO2 powered projectiles. Nothing on the market like it.” (Zach, [46:31])

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4. Community, Counterculture, and Inside Jokes

• Law Enforcement Humor:
  Interview with Mike from Copville, a meme creator and podcaster—“I make a meme about it. So it’s been really cool. Really good reception. These guys are great.” (Mike, [49:12])
• Value of Levity:
  The importance of “clownery” and memes in diffusing job-related stress for tactical officers.

Memorable Quote:
“It brings some light and some clownery to the job where everything is so serious.”
—Mike from Copville, [49:12]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Doctors will tell you the insurance won’t cover it… If you’re at 400 and you’re over 30, you are already way behind the power curve.”
  – Tyler, [13:34]

• “The truth, Toxicity, compromised immunity and chronic inflammation—they’re not fate, they’re engineered. And so is your power to undo them.”
  – Tyler, [32:56] (in a monologue on holistic medicine)

• “Instead of guys sticking their head up in an attic space, sticking a pole camera instead.”
  – Curtis, [20:49]

• “This little ruler over here… you can measure all the way out… and it’s over a thousand feet and I can convert that to yards, meters, whatever…”
  – Mike, [38:07]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------------|------------------| | SWAT culture, morale, and lightning questions | 00:25–05:00 | | K9 tech with Lena (Dark Systems) | 05:21–11:54 | | TRT (Testosterone) discussion with Phil | 11:54–14:22 | | Tactical Electronics (pole camera, under-door cam) | 17:07–22:02 | | Holmatro hydraulic breaching tools | 22:40–25:42 | | Cloud Defensive (illumination, product line) | 28:26–32:56 | | Reveal Technology (drone-based 3D site mapping) | 35:44–42:59 | | Unit Solutions (non-lethal training weapons) | 46:03–48:18 | | Copville memes & law enforcement counterculture | 48:21–50:10 |

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Tone and Style

• Authentic, irreverent, and direct—the “all truth” style is maintained by casual, sometimes sarcastic exchanges, inside jokes, honest vendor reviews, and playful but insightful interviews.
• Blends technical specifics with approachable explanations, making it useful to both tactical operators and the wider audience curious about law enforcement culture and technology.

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Takeaways

• Technology is rapidly improving the speed, safety, and effectiveness of tactical law enforcement.
• Morale and identity remain top priorities for officers, with camaraderie and humor crucial for resilience.
• Vendors at NTOA are innovating not just for cool factor, but with real-world safety and mission success in mind.
• Transparency and counterculture voices (memes, honest podcasts) are valued inside the community.

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For pictures, product links, or to learn more about the people and gear featured, check out the show notes or visit the vendors and contributors mentioned throughout the episode.

Transcript

[Tyler]

Curls or bench curls? Correct curls are bench curls are back curls. Correct curls or squat curls? Correct curls are oxygen curls. You gotta do the buys for the guys. You. You are swat.

[Phil]

Hold on, we're not recording. Do you want to buy a shirt to support military dance? People want to see their sausage get made.

[Tyler]

An appropriate level of inappropriateness. Something happens in my family tonight. The dope horse isn't coming to rescue my family. Might get like it is. First responders that are, that are going to save my. My family, they want the culture to be down.

[Phil]

They want people to not want to be cops. And the people that do want to be cops are now walking into the job, scared to do the job.

[Tyler]

I'm going to try to act like it didn't happen, although we, we all know it did.

[Lena]

JV team for life.

[Tyler]

In today's high stakes world of emergency response, efficiency, speed and seamless communication are essential.

[John]

Introducing Apollo, the next generation tactical software.

[Tyler]

And communication tool designed for first responders.

[John]

Its effortless integration through both mobile and desktop applications makes onboarding simple and straightforward when every second counts. Apollo's clarity, simplicity, next generation communication operations and adaptability allows first responders to act.

[Tyler]

Quickly and effectively in critical moments.

[John]

Apollo empowering those who protect and serve.

[Lena]

JV Team for life.

[Tyler]

It talk about your shirt at all? Yeah, a little bit. Stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Here we are continuing our street interviews inside the Bearcat at ntoa. The lightning round continues. Here we go. Are you ready, John? Ready. These are serious questions. All right. Curls or bench? Bench. Wrong. Curls or back? Back. Wrong. Curls or squat? Curls. Curls or oxygen? Oxygen. Because you need oxygen to do the curls. You got it. All right. You watch the show. You have a. You have a good grasp on special operations. So tell me, what is better? Delta Force or SEAL Team Six? And why is it Delta Force? Delta Force and integrity. How about that? We'll. We'll take that one. And even though you didn't say the words Rob o', Neal, I. I heard it, Tim, with. I saw it in your eyes. What does SWAT stand for? Special Weapons and tactics. Correct. What does SRT stand for? Special Response team. Correct. What does Tim Kennedy stand for? Somehow Correct. Here we go with SWAT tactics. High port or low port? Low port. Correct. Strong wall or points of domination? Points of domination. Correct. Riser or no riser? Riser. Sorry, man. Incorrect. Green Beret or Navy seal? Green Beret. I take in the house. That's good enough for me. And here, this one's just for dc. No one's got it right yet. Let's See if you can be the first. Name the first three presidents of the United States. George Washington.

[Phil]

Thomas.

[Tyler]

George Washington. Correct. Thomas Jefferson.

[Phil]

Third.

[Tyler]

There you go. He is third. James Madison. So close. James Madison was fourth. But you're. You're on. You're on the right page. I'll get. I'll give you one more try. I'm at a loss. John Adams. John Adams. Close. Close enough. Thank you, sir. Thanks, sir. Hey, Lena. This is Lena with Dark Systems. They are. Their American distributor is through Aardvark here in the US Continuing down our unique businesses and unique ideas for law enforcement. I mean, you see this layout, you see this dog mock up and you can't help but think like this is. This is pretty unique. So Lena, tell us what you guys got.

[Lena]

Okay, so first of all, we have the protective canine helmet for our like special officers. We can say the same helmet, just different sizes. Mlxl. So M for female Malinois, this is like the most Malinois and German Shepherds mainly, or husky dogs. The same thing, just different colors, different sizes. The system is so modular. You can add some protection for a hearing. So this is the passive ear covers. You have also active ear covers. These are falcons. Then you have, for example, Peltor on our Melissa dog.

[Tyler]

Yeah, let's come over here and look at this one. I don't get into the. The canine world a whole lot. I've worked with a lot with canine handlers, but getting this deep end is pretty unique to me. I don't know if I've ever seen anything like this with the Peltors on the dog.

[Lena]

Actually they are used for mainly helicopter transportation because, you know, it's noisy, so it just not to. To hurt the dogs. So we use it mainly for transportation, but also for shooting ranges and breach, not only for operations, but also for training. Especially for trainings because it's repetitive action.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I mean, that would make sense. I mean, if we wear them to protect our hearers, our hearing and our ears. Let's give them the same. The same thing exactly.

[Lena]

And their ears are more sensitive than ours, so it makes sense to protect them.

[Tyler]

There's some other technology you guys have here on the vest. What else do you guys have for the dogs?

[Lena]

Okay, so we have many different camera options. This one is like our new, brand new, we can say dark mesh Max system. This is a gimbal camera. So you have this gimbal version so it's really stabilized, especially when ducks is running, you know, so you have a lot of movement. You have also the Possibility of rotation up and down with this camera. So you use your finger on the screen and you can just for example, staircase or you can look up when the dog is on the staircase and things like that. What is really interesting about it, it's you have the mesh option here and it is ATAC compatible. So it's really like for guys that need this equipment, it goes with a smartphone, but we have also like more basic equipment and more like on a budget as well. So this is like our built in camera analog version with electronics on the collar. So you have the point of view of a dog. So it's really stabilized. You can see what the dog is seeing actually.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I like that a lot.

[Lena]

Yeah, this is really awesome because it's really hard to imagine what the dog is seeing. So now you can use it and you see like through the lenses what is going on in front of the dog.

[Tyler]

Right. What's this? Show me. This one you guys showed me earlier. I thought this was really unique as well.

[Lena]

Okay, so this is like our system just to explain why we use it some light sticks, of course, you break them before putting it inside. And what we use it for. So here you close it, you mount it on the. Usually on the chest on the harness of the dog. Because when the dog is seated, it's better to use it in front and you can use it like on the side. But it can be like an obstacle when the dog is in the corners or something. So it's better chest mounted. And then you have a remote control to do it. And for example, let's imagine this scenario that you have a detection dog. You send it to detect some explosives or something. And you see your dog detected something. So you can just show it to the team or just moving it. Okay. You mark the place the dog detected something. So the team can go and search for an explosive or something.

[Tyler]

So you can both leave a breadcrumb trail of where your dog is. If he's on leash or if he's sitting on an explosive, you can go ahead and start marking that location from a distance so everyone knows where the dog was.

[Lena]

Also, for example, for rescue dogs, when you let the dog go like in the forest or something, you can also mark the trace of the dog. So you can follow the dog with the markers so you see where he was looking for a person or somebody or you know, you can track the dog. What we can use the remote control controller for as well, we have a strobe light system. This is really interesting. Just let me check. Yeah, so first of all, we mount it on our helmet like here. So you have two screws. You just insert it from inside. And this is our. We can say, like a thing that saves dog life. We can say. Because. Can you. You can imagine that a dog is, well, like in. In a room with an enemy, okay. And he's attacking the enemy, but the guy, for example, has a knife or a gun, and he wants to hurt the dog. So we can just give him some more seconds by blinding the enemy.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I like that.

[Lena]

So. So the guy is like that. He. He's protecting his eyes, but the dog has just more. Some more seconds to attack him. So this is very important. Perfect. When. When there is, like, a risk to. To hurt the dog in. In the operation. So this is our, like, equipment to protect the dog.

[Tyler]

I love it. You guys got some really unique equipment for. For K9 stuff. And that's why we wanted to come over here and kind of showcase some of the things you do. I'm sure you guys have a lot more online. Again, this is Lena with Dark Systems through. Through their distributor Advark, if you're interested in more. How can they get a hold of you?

[Lena]

You can contact us on Instagram. On Instagram as well, by sending us a direct message and through artwork and mainly on social media. We are so active, so we post every day, so you can just follow us.

[Tyler]

Awesome. Well, I hope you guys had a good time in the show, and thanks for your time.

[Lena]

Thank you so much.

[Tyler]

Yes, thank you. Thank you much. So, so much. Thank you.

[Phil]

All right, we're here live at NTOA 2025, Washington, D.C. i'm here with Phil from Human Performance TRT. How would you sell TRT or not sell? How would you explain the. The need for TRT to someone that serves on a SWAT team?

[Tyler]

So men innately now over the age of 30 are all losing their testosterone levels at an exponential rate. SWAT guys are under constant stress. They're under constant working out, so their hormones are going crazy all the time.

[Phil]

So the cortisone levels are going up.

[Tyler]

Down, up, down, up, down with their cortisone levels. Their. Their adrenaline dumps are a lot more. So you guys are always on the clock. So if you go from being SWAT to being a street cop the next day and then back to swat, you're. It's going up and down because you're getting keyed up and keyed off. Keyed up, keyed off. So it kills your testosterone. Those are the two main killers of testosterone in men.

[Phil]

It's Important. It's important to be optimal. So being optimal means, like, yeah, you'll have, like, oh. Like, when I went, I was at 417 and I was gonna try out to be on the team, and my family doctor was like, Hey, 417 is not bad, man. Lots of dudes function at 417 or lower. And I'm like, doc, I'm not trying to function. I'm trying to be optimal. I'm trying to be on a tier one SWAT team. Like, the best SWAT team in central Florida. And he was like, well, there's nothing I can do for you. So I had to turn to a clinic, like hptrt. I'm with HPTRT now. But you have to go outside because a lot of insurances and a lot of doctors won't cover this.

[Tyler]

Doctors don't. Doctors will tell you the insurance won't cover it. They'll tell you straight out. If you're in some states, if you're at 196, even though the cutoff's 195, nope, they're not going to do it. So you have to find a doc that will help you. There are some that will actually help you that still care and are taking their oath seriously. But when it comes down to it, if you are at 400 and you're over 30, 30 years old, you are already way behind the power curve. You should be between 900, 800 to a TH000 at 30.

[Phil]

Where can they find you?

[Tyler]

Hp-trt.com Use promo code HERO and save.

[Phil]

20 on every single month.

[Tyler]

That's right. Or you can give us a call at 720-262-8414.

[Phil]

All right, there you have it. Thanks, man.

[Lena]

JV team for life.

[Phil]

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[Lena]

JV team for life.

[Tyler]

All right, doing some street interviews. Here at ntoa, we call this the lightning round. Are you ready for this? Just a series of questions. You let me know what you got. Curls or bench press? Bench press. Wrong curls or back? Back. Wrong curls or squat curls? Correct curls or oxygen? Yeah, that's a tough one. I get it. No cap. Oxygen to do. Curls. Got it. Speed Round continues. What does SWAT stand for? Special Weapons and Tactics. What does SRT stand for? Special Response Team. What does Tim Kennedy stand for? How to write a Book. I don't know. Yeah.

[Phil]

Okay.

[Tyler]

All right, all right. Follow on question. And I feel like you watch the podcast. You. You have a. A fairly good grasp on special operations, correct? Yeah, somewhat. Yeah. Okay, so here's my question. Who's better, the Delta Force or Seal Team 6? And why is it the Delta Force? Oh, man. This one is in spirit of being here in D.C. and I'm interested to see who gets this right. You're the first one that gets this line of questioning. Who were the first three presidents of the United States? George Washington. Correct one. Oh, man. You know you're talking to a cop, right? I know this one isn't easy. I'm surprisingly enough, this one is not easy. Jackson. Incorrect. I'll let you keep trying as long as you want. You got me. Don't worry. I assure you, you're not going to be the. The. The only one. George Washington. John Adams. Thomas Jefferson. There's. There's your first three. That's right. You nailed it. You nailed it. Besides that one. That's right. And you won't be the only one. Ask me questions like, do I like glazed donuts or sprinkle donuts? Like, that's, that's. That's. I knew I had your strong point at the curls questions. All right, thanks, brother. Yeah, no problem. All right, continuing around the show, we have Curtis with Tactile Electronics. He's got a. A pole camera he wants to show me, and then a. None of the door camera. These types of technology I'm always very interested about. Like, this is the type of things that. That both saves lives and can be the difference between mission success and potential disaster. And I don't. I don't normally get dramatic about that, but that is how I feel about equipment like this. So tell me what you got.

[Curtis]

Yeah, absolutely. So, like you said, this saves lives, right? So instead of an operator sticking their head in an attic space or crawl space or around a corner through a stairwell, you know, we designed this to be Superman portable. If you look at the screen here, I'm not sure how well you can see it on there, but you've got a visible sensor and a thermal sensor at the exact same time. So if you've got a suspect that's hiding somewhere, if you're clearing corners in a building, you Know you don't want to stick your head around there. This thing extends from 18 inches all the way up to about 6ft. So it gives you a good look. We have some longer ones, some shorter ones, but this seems to be the most popular.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I really like that as well. With the thermal and the. And of course it being on a pole and not having to expose yourself. Things like when guys get up in the attics and start hiding. That's. That's a thing that happens in Florida fairly often, I'm sure across the nation. So there's. There's a great use for it right there.

[Curtis]

Right, exactly. So that's kind of why we. The perfect use case for why we designed it. Instead of guys sticking their head up in an attic space, sticking a pole camera instead. So let me show you the under door.

[Tyler]

All right, let's go under door. All right, hold on, say it again.

[Curtis]

This particular one fits in a pocket. Everything's self contained here. It's hardwired. You've got a forward view and a view upwards. So you can see behind the door. If he's got it barricaded with something.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Curtis]

Connects to your Android phone or to a tablet or to the pole camera. So it's powered by this device. So it'll last a long time. I mean it's going to last as long as your phone does. You can switch the views from here or you can control the IR leds that are both forward and upward.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I love how compact that is. Like I said, you roll that up, put in your cargo pocket, pull it out when. Pull it out when you need it. I love how it has the, the, the upward facing camera as well. Because at some point, once you know who's in there, you're gonna have to make entry. So you gotta. You want to know what you're up against. How do, how do people find you?

[Curtis]

You can find us on our website. It's tacticalelectronics.com youm can find us through any of our distributors that are also here. Who I'm sure you've talked to.

[Tyler]

Yeah, awesome. Love you guys. Products, please go check it out. They are truly are useful. I think this is pretty appropriate. Next in the list after doing the under door camera, which is you. You know what's on the other side. At some point we're gonna have to make entry. And we came across your booth. You guys, some really interesting ways to make entry. It entry, of course can. Can halt a whole operation. And at times it's also the most dangerous part of an operation. So if you can't get in, we, we got problems. But you guys got solutions with that? We do, we do.

[John]

So the first tool I'm going to show you is the T1. It's a one man operation tool. You got sledgehammer, bolt cutters, spreader, and a detachable wedge.

[Tyler]

Right.

[John]

And easiest way to show it is just do it.

[Tyler]

All right, sure. Show us.

[John]

All right, so what I'm going to do here is I'm going to gap my door initially.

[Tyler]

Right.

[John]

So I take my tool, come up against the door and I get my wedge and I hold it there. Now the door is a little bit loose, so that's going to come loose. So I'm just going to reattach it right away and I'm going to get my spreaders in. So I'm a step over, get my tool in place. So the two stage hydraulic pump gives you 100 to one mechanical advantage versus a 15 to one mechanical advantage on a classic halligan bar. And all I'm doing is pumping here. The most back pressure you ever feel on the tool is 66 pounds. And you get that 100 to 1 mechanical advantage.

[Tyler]

Yeah, that's, there's not a whole lot they can do to stop you from, from getting in there if you want to. And I love that it's all encompassing. At the end of the day, instead of having to go back for several tools to make this happen, you can both get your purchase and get your spread in one. One tool that's, that's, that's fairly mobile.

[John]

Yes. And the nice thing about it too is one guy does the whole system. You don't need a second guy to run a sledge on your Halligan. It's one man operation. So that solo officer response, he can get in.

[Tyler]

All right, show us the other tool we talked about. So tell me what this is and then, and tell me the, the different use case for. To use this over the, the last tool you just showed me.

[John]

So where it took me several seconds to get in the door there. This is going to give you speed and I have a longer throw on the ram. If you take a look at the ram, I'm going to get 11.8 inches of spread on that and 15,000 pounds. So twice as much force on that tool.

[Tyler]

Right.

[John]

This will work on inward swinging doors and outward swinging doors. The T1 does that as well. But this is going to give you more speed, so less time in the door.

[Tyler]

Okay, show us a demonstration's worth a thousand words. Right.

[John]

I Get my purchase.

[Tyler]

All right.

[John]

If need be, I can strike in here.

[Tyler]

Right.

[John]

And then I'm just gonna run my tool.

[Tyler]

That was significantly faster.

[John]

So what's nice about the tool is you're able to stay jam side. Okay. It's not much protection, but it's better than being right in front of the door.

[Tyler]

I love it. John, thanks so much for giving us your time. Tell the audience where they can find these tools at Hamatro.

[John]

So go to hamatro.com and you'll be able to find us on the web. Google Hamatro law enforcement on YouTube. And there's a page there that you can see a bunch of videos of stuff that we've opened.

[Tyler]

Okay. And that's how H O L M A T R O. Yes, sir. Thanks, John.

[John]

Thank you, sir.

[Tyler]

All right, we continue the speed round here at N2A. With us we have Patrick. Patrick, are you SWAT or are you not? You're SWAT or you're not? That. That. That. That. Just. That is. That is. Okay. All right, this is what I call inside the mind of swat. This line of questioning. High port, low port, High port. Wrong. Strong wall or points of domination? Strong wall points. Domination points. Domination. Correct. This. The answers are. Are through the. Are through my eyes. So. Yeah. Yeah. Riser or no riser? No riser. Correct. Green Beret or Navy seal? Green Beret, Correct. Next round, here we go. Round two curls. Revenge curls. Correct. Curls. Curls are back curls. Correct. Curls or squat curls? Correct. Curls are oxygen curls. You gotta do the buys for the guys. You. You are swat. Here we go. What does SWAT stand for? Special Weapons and Tactics. What does SRT stand for? Special Response Team. What does Tim Kennedy stand for? Douchebag. But you may not be in the military, but you understand the hierarchy. Green Beret, seals, you know, all that stuff. Like, like most people. Delta and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Okay. Oh, that's awesome. Okay. All right, so you should have the background for this next question. Just, Just. Just by. Just. Just by being related. Who's better, Delta Force or Seal Team 6? And why is it the Delta Force? Delta Force, because it's got the baddest dudes from everybody. And Seal Team 6 is just a bunch of Navy guys. Correct. Last one. This one's just for being here in D.C. no pressure. No one's got it right yet. Anyway, you could be the first name the first three presidents of the United States. George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson. Get out of here. And you, sir, are swat. That's right. I knew you were on Par. When you got John Adams. No, everyone skips John Adams. Yeah, I mean he's not really talked about, but it's. I don't understand. He's one of the.

[Phil]

One of the first.

[Tyler]

You know what I'm saying? You want to know it? That's right. He was one of the best, greatest political philosophers of our time. That's right. And a great Christian man, by the way. All right, man. Thank you, brother. Appreciate your time. Thank you. Guys.

[Phil]

We're here at the Cloud Defensive booth. Cloud Defensive has been with us, I'm assuming for almost a year because we came in contact with Cloud Defensive at NTOA last year and I don't. Was it Matt that was there?

[Matt]

Was it you, Matt, Sean and myself?

[Phil]

Okay, you guys, guys were there. So like a rundown of how Cloud Defensive started your. Or how old is a company and stuff like that.

[Matt]

So officially the company started in 2013. They started making products for Streamlight and surefire switches so that you didn't have to use Velcro anymore to put them on the handguards. From there we progressed. We actually made what everybody knows us for, which is. Was the owl. It was the all in one unit. Had the tape switch built into the light itself was ambidextrous for each side. From there we moved on. We now have our rain series of lights. We have a pistol light that's coming out this fall. These are actually the production grade units and so we're making a little bit of everything. That's the number one thing that we're trying to get. That's what everybody's excited about.

[Phil]

So you guys before this haven't delved into the pistol light. Okay.

[Tyler]

It's our.

[Matt]

It's a long time coming venture.

[Phil]

But our first one, because I carry these on patrol. This one I think actually. Exactly. It wasn't the mini one. It was a big one. So you guys have. This is the bigger one. And then you guys also have a smaller version.

[Matt]

So we have a couple different versions of handhelds. You carry the Duty, which is actually meant for Leo and Mill. It's a user replaceable bezel. Glass is going to be replaceable in field. Then we have just what's we're referring to as an HC3. These are going to be rain outputs as far as handheld goes. So you're getting everything out of our full size weapon light handheld version. And then we have micros. The micros are just going to be a little bit less power. The main thing here is run times. You go from an hour plus like hour 20 to like 45ish minutes just because of battery size. But yeah, everything when you purchase from us comes straight in the box. You could charge your battery light. When you buy weapon lights, you get the switch, the mounting for the switch.

[Phil]

The battery charger now and the one I got, it came with a battery and a battery pack. All of them do.

[Tyler]

Yep.

[Matt]

All of them come with batteries and battery packs. As far as the EPL goes, that's actually going to be using what is an 18350C. So that battery, it charges like a cell phone. It's got a little port built into the head of it. You can charge it that way or on a battery bank. So you have options.

[Phil]

Well, yeah, and me and Burton both run the black, not that gold one, but this one right here. Yeah, we run it on our, on our rifles as well.

[Matt]

Yeah, they're solid. Couple things that are cool about our reins. The switches and the buttons on the rear are two different circuits. So if you're out in the field and you take a tumble or anything and that gets severed, your light's still going off this button alone. We're big fans of redundancy. All of our switches have built in cable management because we want to try to make that as clean as possible. This is actually the dual lead. So we're now plugging into crane systems. We can actually run with PEX or pretty much anything besides an end goal. We can play with those lasers now as well.

[Phil]

No and no one if you, if you don't know, if you're not on attack team or anything like that, or a SWAT team basic dumbed down routine. Things are key to when you need a light, when, when you got wires everywhere or even if you switch it up, it's. It now takes multiple reps to get that down. And so when you said keep it simple, I don't know the word you use, but it was essentially like, you know, if, if my wire goes out, which it will. The light still works.

[Matt]

Yeah. Door frames are going to be your number one enemy when it comes to those cables. I ripped several off. It's nice to have that redundancy feature built in.

[Tyler]

So.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Phil]

And then in the future, Cloud defensive, what's the plans, what's the goals, what's going on?

[Matt]

So right now, number one goal is that pistol light. Once we get that out, we'll move on. We'll do some colors in the pistol light. We'll have to do a concealed carry version of it. So smaller version of that light as well. I know what people are asking us for, which is another version of an owl. I don't want to say that's going to happen, but big thing with our company is never say never. So we'll look into that. Yeah, that's the main goal. So pistol light and then concealed carry version of the pistol light.

[Phil]

Right on. Thank you, man. I appreciate your time and it's a pleasure working with y'.

[Tyler]

All.

[Matt]

Seeing you again.

[Lena]

JV team for life.

[Phil]

Are you tired of using your standard issue flashlight? I know you're still using it because I was still using mine. But I have good news. We've teamed up with Cloud Defensive. The best in the game when it comes to weapons mounted and handheld lights. Go to clouddefensive.com, put in promo code ANTI HERO15 and get 15% off your entire order. Cloud Defensive Pushing the boundaries in illumination.

[Tyler]

Over a century ago. In 1910, the Flexner Report, funded by John D. Rockefeller and the Carnegie foundation, re engineered medical education from a holistic whole body approach which appropriately treated the body as an interconnected system to a compartmentalized approach. Under the guise of specialized medicine, they shut down or consolidated medical schools, marginalized naturopathic, homeopathic and chiropractic medicine, replacing them with symptom management and synthetic drugs. Allopathy is a marketing strategy rooted in fear and manipulated science. This philosophy carried into veterinary medicine resulting in over vaccination, unnecessary surgeries and manufactured food. Just like they did for people. They call it care, but it's predatory and based on profitability. The truth, Toxicity, compromised immunity and chronic inflammation. They're not fate, they're engineered. And so is your power to undo them. We built three targeted formulas to return the body to homeostasis for pets and people to detox, defend and restore. We are the correction to decades of corruption. We are vengeance.

[Phil]

And of course we got to give a shout out to our boys in 09 holsters. Custom built ruggedized duty gear. Made in the USA for cops by cops, a Leo and veteran owned small business. They deal in upgraded solutions for duty gear, including cases for portable radios, body cameras, tourniquets and pretty much everything you need to carry on duty. So go to 09holsters.com and use promo code antihero10zulu9. That's anti hero10z9. And get yourself 10% off your order.

[Lena]

JV team for life.

[Tyler]

Before we start, you said you. You're giving this TV away?

[Mike]

Yes, sir.

[Tyler]

Who's. Who's doing the drawing?

[Mike]

We are.

[Tyler]

Who's who's we? I do drawings. I Know how they work.

[Mike]

Oh, you know, what am I? You do the drawing. Would you do the drawing?

[Tyler]

Yeah, I'll do that drawing. I'll put my business card in my hand like a pro and be like, oh, my gosh. But I'll let Drew win so it doesn't look like. Okay, we'll talk about this off camera.

[Mike]

You got it.

[Tyler]

Here we are again. Antihero podcast at ntoa. We like to walk around and show you some of the new emerging technology side of the house. And I ran across Reveal over here and I wanted to show it to you guys. Mike, tell us what is Reveal?

[Mike]

Well, thanks for stopping by, sir. Reveal Technology produces technology 3D drone modeling technology called Farsight. And Farsight is just used or created with 3D models with a simple drone flight, generally an autonomous flight, it'll build you a model and then there'll be analytical tools you can use on that model for a preplanned event, an in progress type event, a search and rescue type event, any kind of terrain that you're trying to get from point A to point B, AI technology will help you route a correct path that you can get to it, whether on foot or in a vehicle. It's capable of doing that.

[Tyler]

All right, so it, it is a 3D mapping software. And you said it's regardless of it's not tied to one drone or another. With any drone with a camera, you guys, you said you could, you could utilize this software on. Right?

[Mike]

That is correct. Any drone with a camera, a decent camera, and it, it can work with, without connectivity. So you can land your drone, pull your SD card, put it into your tablet with the software, and build your model. It's used significantly through the throughout the DOD and now it's been introduced to public safety.

[Tyler]

And you said you can process this at the edge, which means you can process it in real time while you're there. You can do it, you can do it off grid. And it's compatible with common operating pictures like atac, Apollo, things like that.

[Mike]

Yes, it's a direct ATAK plug in. And when you say processing, one of the true advantages of this technology is how it's processing speed. So it's a matter of a drone flight that could literally be done in under five minutes and building a model within five minutes, and then that model continually can be upgraded in the background while working with your hasty model. And the more improvements you make to your model and allow the program to refine it, the more analytical tools are available.

[Tyler]

Do you have, do you have a case in Point of an area you've already flown over that you can show us and show us some of the tools.

[Mike]

I do, sir. In fact, if you guys recognize what I have casted to the screen from my tablet, some of you may recognize what this is and the significance of this property. And Brett, let me ask you, do you recognize this?

[Tyler]

That is where Trump got shot. Is that where that is?

[Mike]

That is correct. Butler, Pennsylvania, check me out. So as I pick up this tablet and I, I'm gonna zoom out just a smidge and you guys can see the size of this model. This is obviously after the investigation concluded, but to kind of show you how fresh this model was, you can start to see and you'll see where I'm tapping on my tablet and see appearing here, you'll see the imprint of where the bleachers, the grandstands were and where the President was standing when this occurred. The analytical tools are really key to this software. So if the President was standing on this, and this is an example of a preplanned type event, and if I drop the pin where the President was and I enable his line of sight and it defaults to about a six foot high human, but he was on a six foot platform and I change it to 12ft. Now I get a true representation of what his line of sight. So anything that he's potentially exposed to, and then there are measurement tools and I can use this little ruler over here, you see to the right and I can measure all the way out to this roadway and it's over a thousand feet and I can convert that to yards, meters, whatever I decide I want.

[Tyler]

I'll tell you that's, that's mind blowing for planning purposes. Every, every city, every law enforcement has, has, whether it be parades, public speakers, someone's going to come in, give something high, high profile individuals, I mean that's the traditional way. It almost be, it almost be impossible to get that type of information without it. It's amazing.

[Mike]

I agree with you. And if you're doing your groundwork correctly, in addition to using this technology, this will fill or seal any of the gaps in your security operations plan. So you can rest assured. And if your model, the beauty of this, if this model isn't encompassing everything you want, you can fly it again with a drone and build more to the model and just add it to your existing model, not have to recreate a new one.

[Tyler]

Did you, did you have anything else that that's where he was, where the can you build out? Did you know where the shooter position was? Secret Service position. Do you continue to have that information too?

[Mike]

I do have that information. So if you look where the President is represented by the green, I'm going to drop a couple of long rifle guys, I'm going to change their symbol to red and enable their line of sight on these rooftops behind where the President was standing. And we can refine their positioning. So as I move my finger here, crosshairs appear in the upper left hand corner and I can refine their positionings on their rooftop. Now, as far as the color coordination, as you see, anything in orange is overlapped, so it's line of sight of the President. But your long rifle guys can cover for that. That's presuming they're looking in that direction. Anything exclusive in red is to the long rifle guys. Anything left in green are gaps. And if you look, I'll zoom in right here. This is where our opponent, our adversary, wears on these rooftops. So we do have clearly a gap in our security on that rooftop, literally.

[Tyler]

The sliver where security can't see. And we have technology that could have kept this from happening. But of course, hindsight's always 2020 and there will always be gaps in security. We are humans, but there's no reason to make the same mistake twice.

[Mike]

I would agree with you, sir. And our measurement tools. So if you wanted to see respectively, distance here, 475ft. And anybody capable with a rifle, you could even argue capable with a pistol, could potentially take that shot and make that shot and be successful.

[Tyler]

Yeah, it's absolutely amazing. Something worse didn't, didn't happen that day. But hopefully with technology like this, it we won't have, there's no reason to have this again happen in the future. And so I'm glad we got to showcase this and people can hopefully use this and reach out to you guys to prevent it. How do they, how do they get ahold you guys?

[Mike]

They can go. They can email us direct. Reveal tech or revealtech. They can google it, reveal deck AI. They can find it on the website. They can email us direct with our email addresses, which we'll have a recording of. And we can do remote demonstrations, we can do in person demonstrations. But there are so much more analytical tools than we just showed you. We just showed you more or less just a snapshot of what this technology is capable of. But we can use all these tools, including AI routing. If we had the President who was mobile and he's walking from A to B, we could look at his line of sight and its Exposure as he's in transit and we can potentially sure up that security operations plan to ensure his protection.

[Tyler]

Well, awesome. If you guys are interested in more information, hit him up. Thanks, brother.

[Mike]

Thank you, sir.

[Tyler]

Yep. I forgot where I was going it.

[Zach]

Shoot the white ones underneath the green lights and they'll light up and they'll. They'll die. Some of them are two shots of drawing. I think it's two skill.

[Tyler]

I don't know. Can you hit the reset this real quick?

[Zach]

Yes, sir. If we double tap on all of them, they'll basically they all die. They're sort of connected. There's a lot of different modes.

[Tyler]

Oh, so you want to double tap on.

[Zach]

Yeah, I double tap head, double tap chest. You want to do 1, 2, 3 and just kind of transition through the target.

[Tyler]

You said double tap head and double tap chest is what it's requiring right now.

[Mike]

But what the.

[Zach]

One shot for the head I believe and two shots for chest I believe. Two for drawing. You can modify it. So that's just running the gas, guys. They fire non marking rounds and they fire paint based round too. Okay, so like that's like taking your dry fire game up. You're doing dry fire work at home.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Your fraction drawn from concealment presenting and putting rounds on target. You can actually use this to get recoil. Same with the rifle. You can introduce it with just the blanks and then you can siphon the bolt. You'll get the full recoil profile assistance. Most law enforcement units are using these because they're safer, they're more realistic and more reliable than sim in ways that, you know, other Airsoft systems haven't been able to kind of solve that issue. Tim Kennedy. No, don't say I can't pronounce his last name. Alphabet.

[Tyler]

That's close. Tim Alopoulos.

[Curtis]

That's right.

[Tyler]

Spelled. Spelled just like it sounds. That's. That's for you, Tim at Delta Strategic. It does great stippling work. Absolutely. All right, we have.

[Zach]

I'm Zach with Unit Solutions. Zach Lloyd, Unit Solutions, Executive vice president of the company.

[Tyler]

First thing, I don't like starting things out with a negative note, but you do have ugly people on, on, on your. On your marketing and advertising. But. Oh no, that. Oh, that's Kyle. Oh, my bad, Kyle. That's. Oh, okay. All right, we'll edit that out. We'll have to edit that out. Tell us what you got. So if Kyle, obviously Kyle's a good friend of mine. If Kyle's supporting you guys, he's doing it for a reason. Tell us about what you guys got?

[Zach]

Sure thing. We've been working with Kyle about three years, so with Blue Bearing Solutions. He's been running our rifles in his active shooter response training classes. And he said TQB type training. He runs our rifles. The reason he runs them is they're 100% non lethal. So it's not a drop in bolt conversion kit. It's not a slap on upper. It only fires pneumatic CO2 powered projectiles and you can fire blanks. Non marking or marking. There's nothing on the market that's like it. That is the hybrid of realism and safety. So can't chamber a live round. You could never introduce a live AR magazine into our system. As you'll see on our magazine here, it's got a little step here. Real AR magazine is just too wide, you couldn't chamber it. So it's got the best recoil profile of any non lethal trainer on the market. Fires marking, non marking and blanks. And so you can use it from everywhere in the classroom setting all the way to kind of force on force engagements.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I loved it. I got to do a little bit of shooting work here real quick and I love the realism of the gas, the, the recoil management. So it's not just a normal trigger manipulation laser type simulator. It's. It's kind of, it's, it's as close as you're going to get to, to being on the range.

[Zach]

That's right, yep. And so a lot of guys are used to dry firing. This is our pistol here which will be introduced this fall. And so if you're already a guy who takes dry fire serious, this really will enhance your experience because you can introduce the gas, it will give you the full slide action. You can have laser work with it and so you can actually work on transition work where you're not going to have to manually continuously manipulate your slide or with the rifle, manipulate, you know, your bolt carrier group.

[Tyler]

Awesome. How do people find you guys?

[Zach]

You can find us in all of our [e-mail] the Unit 9 will be out in October, November time period. And so if you go to unit9comproxit.com, we've got all the information on the pistol.

[Tyler]

Awesome. Thank you so much.

[Zach]

Thank you.

[Tyler]

Yes Sir. Awesome.

[Phil]

Washington D.C. nTOA Mike from Cotteville and how many people have not realized that you are the man behind the memes?

[Mike from Copville]

It's funny, I get a lot of people know the Cottonville page. They think it's a team. They're like, oh, the team you guys are Great. I'm like, no, it's me. I'm the moron. Big reception up here. We've been walking down the street. People have been coming up to us. Hey, Copville. Hey anti hero. And real good reception at the booth. So we appreciate it. This is a target audience. The SWAT guys, the guys that are like working hard, doing and they're getting screwed with by their administration. That's what cop is about. We're here to protect you and have you give you a voice. And that's what counterculture is as well.

[Phil]

Yeah. And SWAT dudes are easy targets, but they're also good sports. So most of. I shouldn't say most, but a large chunk of your memes are making fun of SWAT dudes who all intern because you used to be swat.

[Tyler]

Yes.

[Phil]

So you kind of have that. You, you, you the ability to do so.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Mike from Copville]

And the coolest thing I think and is them saying I send it in the group chat. It's part of our day to like send a Cobbville meme and it brings some light and some clownery to the job where everything is so serious. So these guys are, you know, running high risk search warrants. They're doing all this high speed shit. I did it. And now they have somewhere to send around memes making fun of them. You know, dudes rolling around on the floor together. I make a meme about it. So it's been really cool. Really good reception. These guys are great.

[Phil]

And where can they find anything Copville related?

[Tyler]

Yep.

[Mike from Copville]

The Cobville page@cottville OG you have the YouTube channels. YouTube.com for the podcast and www.cog.com for all the swag and merch.

[Phil]

And your. Your podcast is locked up with Cobbille.

[Mike from Copville]

Locked up with Cobbville. And then obviously the counterculture one we do together. So you can find them kind of neck and neck. Counterculture Inc. Kalog on YouTube. Come check us out.

[Phil]

I found. It's weird I'm interviewing you like a professional interview. But we rode up here in an RV and we're still sleep in the same hotel room together.

[Mike from Copville]

You're doing really good swinging the microphone.

[Tyler]

Back and forth so.

[Mike from Copville]

And you both snore like.

[Tyler]

And that's it. From Washington D.C. here ntoa I I really can't thank into a enough for everything they've done for us. They've been a supporter of our podcast. They. They made this happen and to be able to come out here and do the things that me and Tyler get to do and represent the anti hero podcast for the N2A truly is an honor and we can't thank you guys enough. Please support the na. They put out some of the best information out there. They have some of the best people working for them. I. I couldn't think any higher of this organization. So thank you to ntoa.