Should Wisconsin Get Ready for PROTESTS After POLICE Shooting? (07/23/2026)

Summary

The Antihero Broadcast: "Should Wisconsin Get Ready for PROTESTS After POLICE Shooting?" (07/23/2026) – Episode Summary

Podcast: The Antihero Broadcast
Hosts: Tyler, Mike, Dominic Izzo, Ryan
Date: July 23, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the recent police shooting in Madison, Wisconsin, exploring whether major protests will emerge and the factors that lead to public and media outrage after such incidents. The hosts review the situation, dissect officer tactics and body camera policy, and engage in spirited debate about use of force, public trust, and systemic failures. The latter half features a fierce discussion between guest host Dominic Izzo and recurring contributor Ryan, contrasting law enforcement views with those advocating for more systemic reforms.

---

1. Wisconsin Police Shooting: Immediate Analysis

Key Details of the Incident ([05:13]-[10:48])

• Incident Recap: A Madison, WI police officer fatally shot a man who reportedly produced a fixed-blade knife during a physical struggle after fleeing an attempted car burglary. The man injured an officer before being shot.
• Context: This was captured on multiple bystander videos but not by officer bodycams—MPD does not have widespread bodycam deployment, a point of contention.

Hosts’ Breakdown & Opinions

• Mike: “You did hear a female yell ‘taser, taser, taser’... But it was not her that fired the rounds.”
• Tyler: “I don’t really know what it is about this shooting that’s getting people more upset than usual… Trying to open car doors is a felony. Is [that] attempted car burglary.” ([08:16])
• Bodycams: Debate over why MPD lacks them; the chief had called for them, but funding stalled implementation.

Legal vs. Social Optics ([10:48]-[13:20])

• Legal Perspective: Shooting likely justified, given the man had a knife and already injured an officer.
• Social Backlash: Lack of bodycam footage invites suspicion, social media outrage—and potentially protests.

Tyler (on bodycams): “If 95% of law enforcement around the country has them, you need to have them. If they abolished them, I would be all for it.” ([09:57])

---

2. Use of Force, Officer Tactics & Public Perception

The Role of Training and Teamwork ([14:47]-[19:42])

• Physical Alternatives: Discussion whether BJJ (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu) or better team tactics might have prevented the shooting.
• Realities of Knife Attacks: Even well-trained officers wouldn’t be expected to risk their lives against an armed suspect, especially with bystanders present.

Mike: “You don’t have to disengage. You do not have to get stabbed. Use of force is ugly. Don’t try to stab the cops, and everything will be good.” ([19:01])

Media & Protest Dynamics ([20:07]-[24:50])

• Why Some Shootings Go National: Hosts point out how the race of suspect, agency (e.g., ICE vs. local cops), and available video affect media amplification.
• Protest ‘Nucleus’: Tyler notes covering this case in real time offers insight on how protests grow and how narratives form, referencing past incidents (e.g., Michael Brown, Ferguson).

---

3. Broader Law Enforcement Issues

Body Cameras & Axon Monopoly ([10:48]-[13:20])

• Cloud Storage as a Cost Driver: Axon sells cheap hardware but charges departments high fees for mandatory storage, likened to Apple iCloud.

Mike: “It’s the Axon ecosystem...we need body cameras. Just don’t get caught with your pants down not using one; that’s when you’re jammed up socially.” ([13:20])

Pursuit & Command Decisions ([28:13]-[35:13])

• California Pursuit Example ([28:13]): Dissection of a recent pursuit terminated by a “beta” watch commander despite clear evidence the suspect was shooting from a moving vehicle.
• Tactics vs. Policy: Debate over when to override policy to protect the public, and who should bear responsibility for difficult calls.

---

4. Memorable Quotes & Engaging Segments

• Tyler (on BJJ and knife defense): “You don’t BJJ a knife.” ([14:47])
• Mike (on officer risk): “Disengage, he turns around and stabs a civilian—you’re right back, you know. You do not have to get stabbed in this job.” ([16:19], [16:59])
• Tyler (on media spin): “Now we get to see the nucleus forming in real time of how the media would want to push this narrative.” ([20:07])

Notable Segment Timestamps:

• 05:13 – Tyler summarizes incident details
• 08:16 – Legal context for attempted burglary
• 09:57 – Bodycams policy critique
• 13:20 – Cloud storage/technology cost
• 14:47–19:42 – Tactics vs. reality debate
• 20:07 – Media/protest formation

---

5. Secondary Discussion: Systemic Issues and Debate

Dominic Izzo vs. Ryan: Systemic Reform vs. Personal Responsibility ([78:01]-[103:47])

Dominic’s Position:

• Stresses personal and cultural factors, skepticism about effectiveness of giving “handouts” without accountability.
• Uses “rags to riches” anecdotes and personal examples from police work.
• Calls out hypocrisy in both liberal and conservative ideologies, and highlights human nature as a limiting factor.

Dominic Izzo: “Bottom line, you give people shit for free, they’re always going to take advantage of it and they’re never going to improve anything.” ([85:21])

Ryan’s Position:

• Advocates for “housing first” and expanded social programs, citing experience in San Francisco’s marginalized neighborhoods.
• Points to corporate welfare, systemic inequality, and the mechanics of “engineered poverty.”
• Emphasizes collective responsibility, cites evidence-based outcomes from subsidized housing.

Ryan: “We have to acknowledge that… serious mental health challenges [affect engagement]. We have to acknowledge that the system is designed for poor and working class people to fail.” ([101:24])

Key Clashes:

• Handouts & Motivation: Dominic presses for specific success stories; Ryan responds with broader systemic context.
• Personal Responsibility vs. System Responsibility: Heated argument over where to place blame, both in policing and welfare policy.
• Scope of Fraud: Ryan repeatedly redirects to corporate abuse, while Dominic insists on day-to-day human behavior.

Dominic: “For the most part, you feed the narrative of a generalization that pulls on the heartstrings of people that don’t see how the sausage is made.” ([85:21])

Ryan: “Street level crime and so called fraud is like a drop in the bucket in comparison to corporate fraud, government fraud, corruption, white collar crime.” ([111:11])

Memorable Debate Moment:

• [95:01] Ryan: “The solution is eliminate billionaires. You reach $999 million, you’ve won capitalism and everything that’s earned beyond that is redistributed.”
• [103:32] Ryan (sarcastically): “Yeah, the guy with the status quo… so just aware. Thanks, dude, for your insights.”

---

6. Viral Police Content & Humorous Interludes

Social Media in Policing ([46:23]-[51:43])

• The hosts review a PR video by Sebastian Police parodying “I left my car unlocked” complaints—praised as genuinely funny, despite a trend of “cringe” police social media content.
• Reflection on the evolution of police PR, with Mike referencing his own past viral videos and the mixed reactions they received.

---

7. Community Engagement & Show Dynamics

• The hosts regularly plug community spaces: Discord, Patreon, their antihero app—the show positions itself as a “tribe” for veterans, blue-collar workers, and first responders.
• The comment section is lively and often more oppositional than the hosts themselves, giving regular contributors like Ryan a unique platform to spar against mainstream or pro-police sentiment.
• Several references to the show’s participatory nature, with input from regular listeners and audience votes on new content and contributors.

---

8. Conclusion & Takeaways

• The Wisconsin shooting is unlikely to kick off significant national protests unless additional footage or a larger political narrative surfaces; the hosts emphasize its “cut and dry” nature.
• The broader debates on policing, accountability, and economic inequality are ongoing—and the show strives to tackle these with both humor and raw, sometimes contentious, honesty.
• Memorable moments center around the real-time formation of outrage narratives, the persistent tension between systemic and individual responsibility, and the role of media in shaping both public opinion and protest potential.

---

For listeners seeking a balance of hard-boiled cop analysis, irreverent banter, and challenging socioeconomic debate, this episode stands out as a lively, often combative, but always engaging microcosm of America’s current divides.

---

Selected Timestamps

• 05:13 – Wisconsin shooting incident breakdown
• 09:57 – Bodycam policy, Axon critique
• 13:20-19:42 – Use of force, BJJ, tactics
• 20:07-24:50 – Media and protest narratives
• 28:13-35:13 – Pursuit policy, "beta" command
• 78:01-103:47 – Izzo vs. Ryan: Systemic debate
• 46:23-51:43 – Police PR video breakdown
• 118:17-119:19 – Social class, criminal justice system reflections

---

Notable Quotes

“You do not have to get stabbed in this job… Don’t try to stab the cops and everything will be good.”
— Mike, [19:01]

“If 95% of law enforcement around the country has them, you need to have them. If they abolished them, I would be all for it.”
— Tyler, [09:57]

“Use of force is one of the most dynamic things out there. If done, practiced, and studied right, it could be so beautifully defended for law enforcement.”
— Dominic Izzo, [75:59]

“The solution is eliminate billionaires. You reach $999 million, you’ve won capitalism and everything that’s earned beyond that is redistributed.”
— Ryan, [95:01]

“Bottom line, you give people shit for free, they’re always going to take advantage of it and they’re never going to improve anything.”
— Dominic Izzo, [85:21]

---

Show’s Tone: Irreverent, combative, unfiltered, with gallows humor and a heavy emphasis on “calling it as they see it.”

---

End of summary

Transcript

[Mike]

Starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify.

[Dominic Izzo]

They have the tools you need to

[Mike]

start and grow your business.

[Tyler]

From designing a website to marketing, to

[Mike]

selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need.

[Dominic Izzo]

There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into Sign up for

[Tyler]

your $1 per month [e-mail] specialoffer the entire broadcast is live. We're going to break down the shooting. Are there going to be protests? Probably not, but there was one a brewing. If there is going to be one,

[Mike]

well, like I always say, don't bring a knife to a gunfight and you'll be just fine.

[Tyler]

Here at the Anti broadcast, we'll say what you can Information provided by the speakers and presenters on the Anti Air broadcast platform is for general informational and entertainment purposes only. Information does not represent the broadcast network and all entities involved involved. All information is provided in good faith. However, we make no representation or warranty of any kind, express or implied regarding the accuracy, adequacy, validity, reliability, availability or completeness of this information. Hurt feelings is not defamation. JV Team for Life Good morning. It's Thursday, July 23, 2026. The entire broadcast is the news entertainment broadcast for veterans, first bonders and all blue collar Americans. We go live Monday through Friday 1pm Eastern. Stand on YouTube, Facebook and X. You're a fan of the show. Please subscribe. This show of course is brought to you by Elevated silence. Go to elevatedsounds.com Use promo code ANTIRE15 Save 15 on your suppressor. They have cans from everything from 22s to 50cals. Exercise your Second Amendment right. Get yourself a can. The process is not that hard and Jim will walk you through elevatedsounds.com use promo code ANTIRE15 save15 and vengeance v e n j E-N-Z.com use promo code ANTIHERO save15 on all of their products including they're brand new protein sourced out of New Zealand, made here in America. No soy's, no GMOs, no artificial flavors or sweeteners and no growth hormones. This is the premier protein. If you watch what you put in your body, this is it. This is not your $20 jug of chocolate protein powder. This is the elite protein. And if you use antihero at checkout you'll get 15% off. And of course join our discord. That's where all the boys hang out Discord is free every night. Everybody's in there. Me and Mike come in there when we can. It's a good chance to get to know the community, get to know the guys, get to know the hosts of the Counterculture Inc. Network. And of course, if you want to go even farther, join the Patreon.

[Mike]

Come to Patreon where we post behind the scenes stuff, have exclusive meetings with the boys to talk about things behind the scenes that nobody else gets to see. Schools of events in there, we plan the meetups, all that stuff in there. If you want to be one step better than Patre. Oh, we do a giveaway every month as well. You get a free prize. And if you want to be one step above the Patreon, you go to the anti hero app.com that is our own social media network with inside our network. The screen's going to change in a minute. Show the antihero app.com, chiron. I just know it. And you're going to go to that website.

[Tyler]

Well, we didn't. Oh, go ahead.

[Ryan]

All right.

[Mike]

And we're going to go to the antiher app dot com. We're gonna do a giveaway in there as well. And you'll get all the real deal stuff for the OG's 99 boys in there. What do we do? Not do.

[Tyler]

We didn't. Well. So my Instagram completely took a on me, huh?

[Mike]

I'm live on mine.

[Tyler]

You're live on your Instagram?

[Dominic Izzo]

Yep.

[Mike]

Yours didn't work?

[Tyler]

No.

[Mike]

And then what I do is I go take the link to the show, I put it in my live Instagram. And they were really cool.

[Tyler]

It does? Oh, yeah. I still got to. I don't know how to add anything. I don't think you can. Can you? Yeah. There you.

[Mike]

Go.

[Tyler]

Give me two seconds.

[Mike]

Go ahead, man. Got two hours. We can do as much as we want. Yeah, I link the show into my little thing there. Look at that, we're here. So anyway, don't forget to join Patreon or the Anti Hero app because it's the coolest place other than the other side of the pillow. We're gonna break down some video. We got a couple really OG foot pursuit videos to go over. So we're gonna have a hell of a show. We got the communists, we got Dominic Izzo. We're gonna be.

[Tyler]

I'm good now.

[Mike]

Now we're good.

[Tyler]

All right, let's break down. So in case you've been living under a rock the last 24 hours. Well, there's all kinds of police Shootings everywhere we're pretty much used to now. We break them all down all the time. But this one in particular is in Wisconsin. A man was shot, he had a knife on him. The police had him surrounded as far as physically and somebody shot and killed him. So let's watch that video. All right, so first and foremost, I

[Mike]

want to make it very clear that you did hear a female yell taser, Taser, Taser. She did not shoot him with a black T. Black. So it was not her that fired the rounds. Although taser, taser, Taser. From a high pitched female voice and bang, bang, bang go together very well. That's not the case in this shooting. So let's make sure that's clear right away.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I don't really know what it is about this shooting that that's getting people upset, but what, what we're going to do is I'm going to read getting people more upset than usual. Wisconsin officer kills. Oh, go ahead.

[Mike]

No, I was gonna, I, I, I would guess it, this is one of those cases, I'll let you read it. Where just to some people it may not look good. And like we talk about looking good and being legal are two different things. But go ahead. More.

[Tyler]

All right, so Wisconsin officer kills man armed with knife. Police say as shooting sparks protest. Madison police said that after the chase and a struggle, a man who was being sought pulled out a knife and injured an officer, which led to a deadly shooting. So so far I feel we're good to go on this shooting. Let's share the screen real quick. In case you guys are wondering, Eli has a day off.

[Mike]

Oh, he does. See, I didn't know that.

[Tyler]

Yeah, yeah, it's me doing everything. I felt the heat when you were talking about that that you didn't tell me he's spending time with his grandparents today.

[Mike]

Ah, I could have hit it.

[Tyler]

Police officer fatally shot a man who was alleged to have pulled out a knife during a struggle. A port of the Someone checking vehicle doors. So attempted car burglary Wednesday afternoon in Madison, Wisconsin. Police responded to the Marquette neighborhood about 1pm after report of someone checking parked cars. Madison Police Chief Patterson said at a news conference the person fled on a bicycle, but officers re encountered him around 1:35pm Patterson said. So right now we have a felony checking on checking. Trying to open car doors is a felony. Is an attempted car burglary.

[Mike]

If he was lost and he thought it was his car.

[Tyler]

Yeah, that's, I'm sure, I'm sure he, he thought maybe all seven of his of those cars were his. The man either fell off or was taken off the bicycle by officers and there was a struggle with police in the intersection. During the struggle, the man, we are told, pulled out a knife or produced a knife, a fixed blade knife. And an officer was injured by that. An officer was injured by while attempting to arrest him. Patterson said that a stun gun was done gun. A taser was used during the struggle but that it was not effective and that the officer who was injured by the knife was the officer who fired his gun. Videos of the shooting were captured by bystanders and recirculated online. One of them verified appears to show officers holding on to the man as someone yells let go. Multiple shouts he's got a knife. Can be heard. The video also shows what appears to be an officer yelling taser as the man stands while being held by police. About three seconds later, while the man is on the ground, a male officer standing over him appears to fire three rounds and the man stops moving. Patterson said that he has seen some videos, but added that other video has not been circulated online and is being reviewed. I caution everyone, this is one perspective. It is not full overview of everything that is visible from different angles, certainly not visible from the officers. Here's where it gets dicey. The shooting was not captured on body camera video the Madison Police Department does not widely use. We do not have body cameras on any of the officers involved. There was a 90 day body camera pilot program for the department 2024. Patterson has pushed for the cameras last month calling them an essential tool for modern policing. But funding has been an issue. The person who was killed was not identified. I want to take a moment to honestly sincerely offer my heart heartfelt sympathies to his family for his loss. The police were placed on admin leave. The city's officials were in contact. My priority is to make sure the community remains safe. All four officers were placed on admin leave. So yeah, all right. So that's a big one right there. We always talk about the importance of body cams today. Although I don't agree with them. I think if 95 of law enforcement around the country has them, you need to have them. If they abolished them, I would be all for it.

[Mike]

But I'll go on a side note here. It's Axon is a monopoly so we knew do need them. I don't know you need Axons. But on a quick side note before we go into the shooting, what Axon is doing is they're collecting all the data, right? And they're making. Where they're making their money is in evidence.com, because you have to upload all those body cameras, and all those have to be stored for an infinite amount of time. Most of them, if they're critical incidents, eventually that storage starts to fill up. So just like Apple hit you with that, hey, bro, all your pictures are about to get dumped unless you spend an extra 999. Axon keeps raising the price on the storage on the cloud. So it's not the product anymore. Here's a body cam.

[Tyler]

We'll give you 12 pieces of plastic.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, we'll give you the body cam. It cost us 98 cents to make this thing in China. So we'll give you you this. But it's going to cost you X amount of dollars. And they got a fancy name for it now, their neighborhood. Or it's one of those names that's not a name, but it is. It's for their environment. I can't remember it off top of my head.

[Tyler]

Neighborhood.

[Mike]

No, it's not neighborhood. It's called the Exxon. There's a name for it. But anyway, it's like their little place. It's kind of like the cloud, their own version. So they're selling storage now because it's like, oh, you captured it. We need it for court, maybe in three years. But you want 4K video to show in court, you're gonna have to pay this money monthly. And they keep jacking that price up. But. So that's Axon. So we do need body cameras. But what do you think about this one? What's your take on this one?

[Tyler]

Well, obviously, the shooting's good if the information is correct and a knife was produced. I think everybody did a good job of voicing. Right. That's why they teach us. Young cops always say, say it. Say things, knife. Say things like, you know, let the public know why you did something. Although some people might not believe they should. It's always good, you know, hey, like when you do a warrant and people go, I heard the cops for three minutes straight telling him to come out. They're bashing on the door. Identifying themselves as law enforcement. So, you know, if they. If the neighbors could hear it, you could hear it. It's kind of the same concept. So. But I really think what's going to jam them up socially, not really legally in any way, is that I said, Axon always warns you, don't get caught with your pants down. Don't get caught not using our product. And it seems like this Chief Came out there and said it. I've tried to get body cams and it's a city funding thing. So now it's going to be the blame game of, you know, whose fault it is.

[Mike]

Yeah, I mean obviously it's captured on video, so it's not terrible. It's, it's the ecosystem like Brad said there. It's the, it's the Axon ecosystem that created this ecosystem. And again, the products are cheap. Here's your taser, here's your body camera. Take it, man, it's cheap. We'll give you, we'll give you a deal. Two for one. But you have to store it right? Eventually it's like, well, you can't not keep storing it. So that's where they're making their money. But yeah, this is one of those ones where if I, if you want me to play like blue haired liberal, I could say, oh my God, you mean four cops that, you know, four cops can't control one guy? This is horrible. Look at, they should have used a taser first. Oh, they yelled taser. Then they didn't, it didn't work. They didn't give it time to work. Like you can play the blame game all, all day long. The bottom line is law enforcement is ugly. It's not a pretty game. It's not made to be fun. It's not a fun job. Although these girls dance around and with their pink handcuffs and lip gloss and all that make it seem like it's fun. This is really what law enforcement is. This is what the reality of it is. And the bottom line is you don't get to swing a knife around when you're getting taken into custody and, and stab a cop and you're gonna end up shot. That's, that's it. I mean, hate it, love it, whatever 50 Cent song said, love it or not, whatever he said. But it's, you can't bring, you can't have a knife swinging around at the cops. They have no duty to get stabbed. They can disengage and shoot you. And that' that's your fault.

[Tyler]

So I'll play, I'll, I'll play blue haired liberal. So we have to take, I am going to remove BJJ from this situation because had those officers been trained a little bit better physically to take once a nice produce it, they would just bj, you can't BJJ a knife. So understandably, if we were breaking down this call and it was like a lawsuit against them and the guy didn't die and he was beat up. I, I'd be sitting here arguing. Four dudes taking down a dude like this. Could they have known some BJJ or some team tactics to get him into custody? Sure. But I'm not going to use that because a knife was produced and that's the, that's the what, what's in question. So the only thing I can think of would be disengaging. I'm trying to appease the public. I'm trying to think like what was devil's advocate say? And appeasing the public would be disengaging and giving warnings to drop the knife.

[Mike]

Here's. Yeah. That being said, I don't, I know you're not serious. You're just using some type of argument. Because if you pause it at that one point right here coming up, you'll see, keep going. I'll tell you, I'll pause it when it's ready. You'll see that if you do disengage in view of the camera are multiple innocent civilians behind this guy. So you disengage, he turns around and stabs the civilian. Take somebody hostage. You're right back, you know, there you go, right in the background right there. You'll see to the right.

[Tyler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike]

There's people. I mean there's. You can't, you can't. This is one where it just doesn't, it's not gonna look pretty. And you could BJJ a knife if those four guys were trained or had training and pinning the arm down and absolutely they could. But I still wouldn't ask even a BJJ expert to risk getting your jugular sliced.

[Tyler]

Hell no.

[Mike]

Dying and bleeding out just because you know some tactics. It's all cool when you have a blue knife in a room and you have the fake plastic knife and you train it and you do, you do the two handed grip grab and you pin it and you pin is on that dude. That's all cool if it's feasible, but you do not have to get stabbed in this job.

[Tyler]

Well, let's, let's look at this. Mike, you're, you're responding. You are black belt in Brazilian Jiu jitsu, right? You're. You're the head cadre, adjunct head cadre for training. But this is your beat and it's just you and this guy with a knife. Let's just say you're feeling froggy and you're like, I'm going to just like you're, you're hands on with them already. And he produces this knife and you make the conscious decision, I'm going to continue staying hands on and get the knife right. That's your call. I wouldn't advise it, but that's your call. You start mixing three of your buddies in there who are all hands on with them, and you're looking at that knife and you're like, I don't know where this knife blade is going to be in the next 15 seconds.

[Ryan]

Correct.

[Tyler]

I can vouch for myself that it's not going to go near me, but I'm trying to control it. If they pull the arm I'm controlling away and then he gets now leverage, they take that control away from you and you can't control him touching them with that blade. So it's almost like, yes.

[Mike]

And that's an argument for me, and I know Joanna makes this argument too, is when people, when the cops fight against each other, like we see it all the time in using forces where they do to tug a war against each other. If, if only one is trained in BJJ and the other three aren't, the one might not. Might as well not be either, because everyone around him is not going to perform anything that's, you know, any necessary tactics. It's going to be a free for all. At that point, you're in probably more danger than you were if you were one on one. If you're one on one, a black belt and BJJ is going to have a huge advantage. You put a black belt in there with three idiots just flailing and swinging and grabbing and pushing. You're right. You might have a perfect arm bar or a kamora lock or, or some type of pin on this knife. And next, you know, when the dude's elbows you in the skull and, and dazzle, you know, rings your bell. Next thing you know, you're like, oh, and the knife is swinging. So you would be better off one on one as a BJJ black belt than one with three dudes who have no idea. And you know, they're kicking out, they're kicking them, they're doing.

[Ryan]

You saw that.

[Tyler]

That's the first time. I saw that too.

[Mike]

That's the first time I noticed, you know, the old, the old cockroach stomp there. But yeah, I mean, unless everyone was trained equally, I, I just. You do not have to disengage. You do not have to get stabbed. And hey, man, it is what it is. I mean, we're pretty hard on cops when they do something stupid. I know. We're pretty fair. And in this case I. I just. Man, if that female wasn't there, I don't know what else would happen, man. Good thing she was there. And then, you know, the guy does the job with, with the gun. So, hey, man, you know, use of force is ugly. Don't. Don't try to stab the cops and everything will be good.

[Tyler]

Yeah, dude. I mean, I don't really know any way to swing that. So now the, the one thing that's happening is I don't know about anything about Wisconsin. I know Nick in the comments said that it's based. I also don't know what that word means. I've tried to figure out what base means.

[Mike]

Good.

[Tyler]

What?

[Mike]

Based, I think means good. Oh, he said if you're based, I think he means you're okay.

[Tyler]

But the reason why I wanted to cover this extensively is because you get to see in it, like the nucleus forming in real time of how the media would want to push this narrative. Now, we were never aware to start looking for this when it happens because as law enforcement officers at the Times and now retired, we never once thought that some of these shootings would even be challenged, let alone have the country divided. So now it's interesting to see these shootings in real time and watch it as protesters start coming to the streets and seeing how it's going to be spun. This is a clear shoot all day in my eyes.

[Mike]

I think here's where I can tell you it's not going to be a big deal. One, it's. It's not on national news. It's on, you know, we're seeing it on Instagram too. But here I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw a curveball, replace those four cops with ICE agents. This is now national news. Same scenario. Yeah, same scenario, same everything. Everything across the board. That's a, That's a illegal immigrant getting detained to go get detained by ice. Pulls a knife, shoots them. This would be all over cnn, everywhere, Fox News. This would be the biggest story in America. But you. That's what I'm saying. These little things just change the scenario out. It's local Wisconsin cops, probably, you know, I mean, it's pretty cut and dry. I mean, you could spin it ugly. Like I said, I can sit here, make it. Make a case for it to be terrible. I mean, if I want, you know, I'd be wrong, but I could do it. Yeah, but I mean, you know, your hands on already. It's not like officer induced jeopardy. It's not. You put yourself in that situation. You also have a Public to defend. You know, around you, I'll just speak

[Tyler]

real street cop real quick. Usually when you're taking down a drug addict car burglar on a bike, I'll be honest with you, dude. You're not thinking firearm call. You're not thinking, I'm gonna need my gun. You're thinking, he's gonna run, I'm gonna have to fight him. And I honestly think that even if you're. I'm on. I'm the first one to say, guys, I'm always thinking how I'm gonna get shot or who I'm gonna shoot, even when I go into the 7 11. But in this scenario, shooting somebody, really, it's not. It's just not the type of crime that typically happens. So when you got four of the goons out there, just. Or three goons, and they're made. No, I'm just kidding, guys. You know, like this. We see this all the time. And then when. When it becomes a deadly force situation in a matter of a second because he produces a knife. That's why it looks kind of ugly. But I mean, I think it looks ugly because there's four cops. I guarantee you that kick's gonna get thrown into the media. I don't really know what that guy was thinking. It wasn't effective. It might have kicked him in the leg. But

[Mike]

that's good.

[Tyler]

But I mean, I don't know.

[Mike]

I was trying to leg sweep him. He was kicking his leg back.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Pointed out the hilariousness of. If you watch the guy in the background that pulls up at the black guy that pulls up. When you see the other angle, you'll see him, like, hear the shots and then look back at his car. Like, I should get. I should leave. Like, this is a bad. If you watch it from the. The guy pulls up behind in slow motion, he'll look, he'll get out. He'll like, look, the shots go off. And then he kind of looks back at his car, like, watch. He'll be like, oh, let me get in the car, leave. She pointed that out this morning when we were watching it. She's like, this dude did not want to be there. He's like, man, I pulled up.

[Tyler]

That's hilarious.

[Mike]

Now he's involved in the whole thing. So.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, and the protest thing, like you said, it might just. It might have. Protests might have to catch fire quick for. It's obviously got to have a political agenda to it, a national political agenda. It's got to be covered by the major agents the major news agencies. Huh.

[Mike]

He looks white, the suspect. Yeah. I can't tell.

[Tyler]

No, he's black.

[Mike]

Is he?

[Tyler]

Yeah. Light black. All right.

[Mike]

It's hard to tell. He's got, he's got a hoodie on or a hat on.

[Tyler]

It's hard to tell. He's getting his ass kicked by the police.

[Mike]

His legs look white.

[Tyler]

He's light skinned, bro. All right.

[Mike]

But usually the headlines lead with race. That's what I'm, that's why I'm asking. I don't, I didn't see it.

[Tyler]

The protesters already have Black Lives Matter signs out there.

[Mike]

No way.

[Tyler]

Yeah, so. And they're, they're starting to come. And I wanted to cover this because we've never covered something in real time that had the potential of. Because obviously on site protests then turn into big, large scaled protests which turn into civil unrest, which turn into rioting and destruction over a matter of 48 hours. So. And if you remember Eric Brown, I don't know if any of you guys remember that case, but I know you remember the hands up, don't shoot narrative that was completely, completely falsified. Eric Brown was trying to take the firearm away from a cop and overpower that cop. And Eric Brown was shot for it. Eric Brown died. Michael Brown.

[Mike]

And then Michael Brown.

[Tyler]

Michael Brown. Oh, I'm thinking of Eric Garner.

[Mike]

Michael Brown, Ferguson.

[Tyler]

Yeah, Michael Brown. The hands up, don't shoot thing was, was completely falsified by witnesses saying they saw him. And then all those witnesses went back on it and said, no, he didn't say that. So autopsy, the autopsy showed he didn't have his hands up by the way the rounds hit him.

[Mike]

No body cam.

[Tyler]

That's going to be the only issue

[Mike]

I see with, I'm saying, in Michael Brown, right?

[Tyler]

Oh, yeah, right. Yeah. I think that was cell phone video. Was that even cell phone video?

[Mike]

I'll video that one.

[Tyler]

Is there Michael Brown, BWC. When did that happen? 2015.

[Mike]

2014 was right around the. It started with. It was.

[Tyler]

Hold on, it was Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, the Kid.

[Mike]

August 9, 2014.

[Tyler]

Gray in Baltimore that died in police custody in the paddy wagon. And then the big one was George Floyd. Those were the big five that really was spun by the media. So, yeah, I mean, that's, that's essentially it. We'll see if anything comes from it. But like I said, protesters were autumn already moving in with their little gay signs. White people, of course. So maybe it won't go anywhere. I don't know. Madison, Wisconsin, I don't know about that city? I don't really know about Wisconsin. Period.

[Mike]

There's a hero up there if they need them. Right?

[Tyler]

George St. Floyd.

[Mike]

No. Your buddy.

[Tyler]

He's down there.

[Mike]

Your friend. Reading House isn't anything around that written house. Isn't he up there?

[Tyler]

I don't know. Should. No. He went into Wisconsin. Right? Huh.

[Mike]

He lived close by. I thought.

[Tyler]

I'm sure he's moved since then. You know.

[Mike]

Somebody sent me before that. He's wearing a anti hero shirt. I got it yesterday.

[Tyler]

He's wearing an anti hero shirt. Yep. Cece sent me one of him wearing a counterculture ink shirt too.

[Mike]

Okay. Yeah. My man.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Shooter man. There's a shooter in the club. I don't know. Like I said. I. I don't know how you get. This one is just too.

[Tyler]

It's.

[Mike]

It's too obvious. It's not. It's not a problem.

[Tyler]

So what is your. What do you have any videos? I've got a couple I wanted to watch with you all week. We just haven't gotten to them. There's always casual Friday. So don't feel rush.

[Mike]

It's up to you.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Tyler]

All right.

[Mike]

Hold on. There we go. Let me go into my vault here because I'm well prepared today. Let's go with a Beta bot commander.

[Tyler]

Right on.

[Mike]

Ain't it?

[Tyler]

That's mine.

[Mike]

Okay. So this is. Let me set the scene for this. This is a shooting suspect in California where you'll hear them calling it out and that they're telling the watch commander that they saw this guy shooting from the vehicle. I want you to rate this guy's performance as the watch commander.

[Dominic Izzo]

Shooting suspect.

[Tyler]

Gray Tesla Cyber truck.

[Dominic Izzo]

One of her adw. Possibly armed.

[Tyler]

Now making a U turn back to south. The vehicle has a bullet hole on the driver's side door.

[Dominic Izzo]

They gonna 90 have all van go pursuit. Hey. 9l 90 before I knew that. I have CHP right behind him. Do you mind if I get him into this pursuit? My van.

[Mike]

I can get out of that pursuit.

[Ryan]

Okay.

[Dominic Izzo]

And we are giving up the shooting CU that there was shooting vehicles on the 210. What I believe to be muzzle.

[Mike]

Just want to make sure you got

[Dominic Izzo]

the whole picture that you came in. There is no shooting suspect.

[Mike]

It's just evidence of a little hole in the vehicle.

[Tyler]

That's all they.

[Mike]

But on the display.

[Dominic Izzo]

You know I observe muzzle blast coming from the vehicle. I just wanted to make sure that was clear.

[Mike]

Cancel the pursuit.

[Tyler]

Cruising down the street in my six fold. Slapping the hoes.

[Mike]

I can't My legs broke. So if you're listening close, what. What you have is of the watch commander, you have a guy who says, initially it comes out that they have a shooting, like the vehicle's been shot. And that what that officer is trying to relay, he's a city cop. And then CHP California patrols out there. He says, I got highway patrol behind me. I'm behind the car. Watch commander, you can tell. I don't care what you say. You did it long enough. You know, a voice of a Beta cop, you can hear right away, you can hear the Beta.

[Tyler]

You could be like, he's got a gun in my face. And they're gonna be like, kill the pursuit.

[Mike]

Yeah. So he's saying, kill the pursuit. And he says, I want you to understand that I. You know, it's a shooting suspect. No, they don't have a shooting suspect. They have a bullet on his car. And then the dude says, no, I saw the guy shooting from the moving car myself, my own eyes. Terminate the pursuit. I mean, we talk about pursuit policy. We disagree. Like, we're a little bit. You know, we chase cars, but there's. There's always. You know, there's a little leeway in there if a family gets killed. But you have an active guy that was actively shooting from a vehicle recklessly. He has to be stopped, he has to be chased, he has to be taken out. I would agree with that one. It's nighttime, and obviously CHP ended up doing it. But I think that's a. That's a real telltale sign of the direction of law enforcement, especially in a dangerous place like LA area, very congested, you know, to have a guy actively shooting from a vehicle and your officer's giving you a layup, like, hey, man, this dude was act. Because that one's always in there. The one that you never. The shooting a deadly missile from the vehicle or whatever that one is, like, that's a layup, dude. You have to stop that car.

[Tyler]

Well, I mean, I. I commend that. So I'm assuming that was an LAPD bird.

[Mike]

I'm not sure who it was. I don't know if it was lapd. I don't know which other agency was involved.

[Tyler]

I commend. So typically, pilots of those. Those are law enforcement guys who have been in the agency for a while, so they've got some tenure. They've also in a very specialized position where you can't just get rid of aviation guys. You can get rid of a canine guy. You can get rid of a SWAT guy. You can get rid of. Aviation's one of those ones where a lot. A lot of money and time are invested into the person that's in that cockpit. So you really. They're not just. I'm not saying it can't happen, but they're not somebody to be trifled with. And I really respect him going, I just want. He essentially was like, I just want to make sure you are being a. You're being a. And I want. I want to make sure that's what you're being. I commend that. Dude, that was awesome.

[Mike]

I mean, it's. It's. There's like the whole. I think the guy in Hillsboro or Lee county got fired. We haven't even gotten to that one. Last week he pulled the. He tried to hit me head on. You know that one? He tried to run to me in a car. And I think they watched the video. And I still don't know that he. I haven't looked into it enough, but, you know, that authorized the pursuit. And then they watched it after the fact and were like, well, it didn't really appear that way when you got a guy on the radio saying, I saw muzzle flash gunshots. This is a shootout coming from this vehicle. Again, that is like every pursuit policy I've ever seen covers that. Firing from a moving vehicle, like drive by. That's like dangerous.

[Tyler]

Very dangerous.

[Mike]

We got like u turning and all that where they could have just plowed into him when he was u turning or tried to vet or pit. But yeah, I mean, I.

[Tyler]

That.

[Mike]

Dude, I'm sure you know that watch commander is going to come back and be like you.

[Tyler]

I told you the first time.

[Mike]

You made me look like an.

[Tyler]

I'm sure that's coming, dude. Let's. All right. I like scenario scenarios. All right. Your. Your crime suppression, Corporal Dilks, right? You're. You're out there. This is your agency. You're a supervisor, but you're not a supervisor of that shift. You just happen to be out doing your. And. Huh?

[Mike]

That's how I got demoted.

[Tyler]

You hear this going on the radio, you hear the birds saying, I saw muzzle flashes. And you get an opportunity to wreck this dude into the wall and end it. Are you doing it?

[Mike]

Yes,

[Tyler]

my man. That's why you're not copywright. I mean,

[Mike]

so. And. And I don't know their policy. Our policy pit is your own decision. You don't have to ask for it as long as it meets the qualifications, which is under 60 miles an hour and all that good stuff. Paved road. I don't remember all of it. It's been years. But you don't have to ask. In this case, you would almost be inclined to do it just because. Just because this beta is like, no, don't. You know, Terminate the pursuit. Terminate. I think they learned that in the FBI academy or those advanced leadership class. I think they. Every morning they come in and go, ready, go. Terminate the pursuit. Terminate.

[Tyler]

Together. Together. Say it. Together.

[Mike]

You're guilty of violating the code of conduct. You're guilty of violating the code of conduct. I think they practice all those at de escalation. De escalation. I think that's part of the FBI academy and all those training academies they go to. But at the end of the day, bad guys have to go to jail. And there's certain times when bad guys go to jail regardless of what other some other says on the radio. And you're like, hey, bro, I don't care what you say. I'm taking this guy out. Like, I have to. And that's that.

[Dominic Izzo]

That's why I'm.

[Mike]

That's why I'm sitting on a podcast.

[Tyler]

Nick says, for me, the individual trumps the agency narrative. You have to hold yourself accountable. Yeah.

[Mike]

Think if you take that dude out, you're gonna end up on our show. You're gonna end up on a lot of shows if you get terminated for that and you do the right thing. You're that guy, that lieutenant, whoever he is, man.

[Tyler]

I just. Sometimes I think, like, you know, do you have an argument? Let's say you pitted, like, not even our legal pit dude. He does that U turn and you're coming up like this and you say it and you crush that driver's side door into that concrete wall that he passed by. Right? Let's say you did that and you're like, I heard that he's firing into passing vehicles. He's about to pass more. I made the call because that watch commander is incompetent and he's going to get people hurt. I wonder if you'd have like a. An argument.

[Mike]

You're going to violate the policy all day. The argument is going to be the interest of the public. And would. I don't know how their procedures work. Would a board find you. You're. I mean, you violate policy driving into work in the morning every. Every second of your day. You're violating one of their billion general orders. Right. You're doing something. But I know before Pitt was a thing in this county, going back all the way back to Sheriff Roy Raymond. You're going back like 2001 or two. We had a very similar situation where dude was driving the wrong way. We didn't have a pit policy. We didn't have. We had a kind of a weird pursuit policy. And one of the dudes just did that. He T boned the guy at an intersection. Going. He was going. And the sheriff called him, hey, dude, you violated the policy. Here's your letter of counseling. The minimal amount of discipline. He handed it to him and he said, great job. Like, I'm glad you did it. He's like, I can't get around that. Just saying, you get away scot free, right? You have to get something. You violate the policy. But he handed him a letter of counseling, which is the same as like being 30 seconds late for work, and then told him, great job.

[Tyler]

Like, well, and also you get to say. I mean, there is, I think, a good form of leadership where you get to say when they want to hammer them. Oh, no. He's been officially disciplined. Anything outside of this official discipline is now subject to union stuff.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, you call him in immediately and give him. I verbally counseled him. He's already been. He's already been. At that point, we're all going down together. But for something like this, it's. It's worth it sometimes to like, take a stand. But that's the problem we talk about with cops, is they're not willing to stand up for anything. You're gonna get your buddy who you went, you know, you thought you were cool with, and he's like one rank ahead of you, and he's gonna go, hey, man, I'm sorry, dude, but you know, I can't. My mortgage is due and the kids, you know, my kids are going to college. I got football. You know, I'm gonna have to write you up, man. And you're like, bro, like, we talked about this our whole career. This is what we're here for. We're goons, right? And he's like, yeah, but, you know, I got. I'm a sergeant now, so I gotta. Yeah, man. So I gotta do it. And that's. That's the wrong. That's why I'm gonna. Let me start over. That's why I'm gonna make sure that a command staff is extremely competent in real life application of pursuits, use of force, shootings. Because without that knowledge and experience, they cannot judge you. And I don't want to watch commander that's like this. I. I would. I don't want this guy.

[Tyler]

Some people are Asking us if we have the. I don't know how to. I don't know where this video is. Oh, here it is.

[Mike]

What is it?

[Tyler]

Nothing. Some people are asking me, do you have the video on hand of the guy like that was bashing his wife scoling with a baseball bat. And the cop.

[Mike]

Yeah, Joanna sent it. It was his dad, Nick.

[Tyler]

I saw. I'm not gonna lie. I saw Shot Timer Live cover this. I did not watch it. I saw the real.

[Mike]

The real.

[Tyler]

I didn't even. Well, I saw that there was a reel. I'm not gonna lie. I was super busy at the time. I didn't watch it. I don't think I've seen this video in full. I'm a little perturbed with somebody getting their head smashed in with a baseball bat. I think it's kind of. Involved. Did the cop. Didn't.

[Mike]

He missed a lot.

[Tyler]

Hit him. He missed. Okay.

[Mike]

A lot.

[Tyler]

So we're gonna put that up on the screen and break that down.

[Mike]

I gotta navigate the pages that I'm not blocked from. Hold on.

[Tyler]

Police post. You gotta have it, right? I got it.

[Mike]

I got it.

[Tyler]

Nick said I clipped it out of context. First off, gold star for Nick's. That. Nick, that's how you do it, bud. Clipped it out of context. We didn't cover the instance, but it fit the narrative after the fact.

[Dominic Izzo]

Fact.

[Tyler]

And I know Anthony talked about it on Counterculture, Health and well or Health and Fitness last night as well.

[Mike]

Did he have that echo?

[Tyler]

Yeah, he did. He had a bad echo his first show.

[Mike]

I don't understand how it happened.

[Tyler]

He's been a guest a billion times on podcast, so I don't know what happened last night.

[Mike]

All right, I got a couple views here.

[Tyler]

Matt Prinka posted it.

[Mike]

I got it. I got it. My license. She listens. Actually got two views of it. Look at me.

[Tyler]

All right.

[Mike]

Boom. I think we both do that, right? We're doing something.

[Tyler]

Yeah, it's. It's stressful. Got everybody. You got the whole show waiting on you. I know how it feels. All right? You're kind of subconsciously trying to let people know that it's coming.

[Mike]

It's coming. All right, I'll play this angle first. I'll play whatever angle pops up first. This one.

[Tyler]

Here we go.

[Mike]

Ready?

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Shoot him.

[Tyler]

Well, he's missing. He's missing. There's a lot.

[Mike]

So let's go back.

[Tyler]

Holy.

[Dominic Izzo]

How many shots?

[Mike]

Shoot him. Shoot him.

[Tyler]

Well, he's missing. He's missing.

[Mike]

Holy. All right, so that's.

[Ryan]

Shoot him.

[Mike]

That's from the neighbor's view. And then I'll play the body cam.

[Tyler]

Dude, that is brutal, by the way.

[Mike]

Yeah, it is pretty brutal. He's really not swinging that hard, though.

[Tyler]

He's kind of like to hit somebody lying down with an aluminum baseball bat to the head that many times. See, that's brutal.

[Mike]

Stone Cold used to do it all the time with Undertaker, and neither of them ever got hurt.

[Tyler]

Yeah, right.

[Mike]

There we go.

[Dominic Izzo]

Put it down. 63.

[Mike]

Step it up.

[Tyler]

Put it down.

[Ryan]

I'm gonna.

[Tyler]

He's like, oh, I'm out.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Holy cow. What's the context of this call? Does anybody know?

[Mike]

I think it was a son and a dad.

[Tyler]

Son was dad killed his son.

[Mike]

Beating dad up here. And I'm not an expert. I'm just a dude.

[Tyler]

Could you imagine me as such a psychopath? You murder a family member with a baseball bat.

[Mike]

I mean, I'm going to point out something that the officer said that makes me realize he was not ready for that day.

[Tyler]

I'm gonna shoot you.

[Mike]

I'm good with that. That bit up. You're one on one, dude. This is the. This is the backyard. This is Steph Curry in the backyard. This is Michael Jordan in the backyard, Kobe Bryant in the gym. This is five, four, three. In your head, you're shooting that three pointer to win the championship. This is the day you trained for. This is the day where you went through the police academy, when you got the free lunch at Chipotle, when Chick Fil? A gave you that extra biscuit. This is the day when you put on that uniform that you were called for. This is the one. This is the call, is it? You have a guy being murdered in front of you. This is the day all your training and experience comes to fruition and you're ready to perform. When you get on the radio and say, step it up, you're asking for somebody else to come help you.

[Dominic Izzo]

You are the guy.

[Mike]

It's almost like there's no 911 for you. We are the 91 1. It's not like I'll time out. Step it up. I need somebody else here.

[Tyler]

You.

[Mike]

That is you, man. That is the day when you put that uniform on in the badge and you. You stood there. When your mom and dad took the picture and you were swearing in, that was it, man. This is all the checks, all the ink, all the money in the bank. This was the day you were supposed to perform. You missed every round, and I'm not knocking the dude. This is. This is not. This is knock on the profession.

[Tyler]

You have my permission to knock on that dude, man. If you can't, if you're so stressed, right? His body camera did seem to be that make the distance look a little bit different. It looked a little farther away. Close it, close it. Run, run. He's got a fixed object. Dude.

[Mike]

I talked about this and I was talking to Jojo, like, and when we were in SWAT and we did the hr, the hostage rescue stuff, when we bend the corner in a room where there was like a knife to a head or a knife, whatever, our training was to push towards both and do a contact shot to the skull, if you could. Your goal is to get close. Now, in this case, I'm not saying you have to run all the way over there, but you. I mean, you should be able to take that shot, but you. If you can't and you should be. So the guy I'm talking about that performs and is ready, perform, would be able to take this shot, but close the distance. When you get on the radio and say, send units, whatever he said, I need help, you're not ready. You got to close the distance and get to a comfortable range where you can make that shot. I'm not asking to take a sniper shot from 25 yards with a pistol in a high stress situation. That's not it. That's not practical. For even excellent shooters are going to have a lot of stress that you can't control. But you have to drive close and you have to kill him. And Dom hates that word. But this guy needs to go. And the only way to stop this one is not body shots. This is lights out. You have to incapacitate his brain. T zone shot right between the eyes, right to the side of the head to make sure this guy stops beating that dude with a bat. So this is the one. This is the one, man. This is the one you. You're supposed to be ready for. This is your Uvalde, right? This is your. This is your big call. And when you. Your first thought out of your mind is send more units. You weren't ready for this call, dude. You weren't ready. So I don't know the hit percentage. It looks bad. Everybody's knocking his marksmanship. I get it. And I'm not even. I'm not even concerned about any of that. I'm concerned about every person watching that video, every girl getting dressed and camera setting up the tripod, Everybody doing whatever they're doing. Your day's coming with this call, man, and hopefully, hopefully you're ready for It.

[Tyler]

All right, let's. I have. I have a question for you. I want to know your take on this. We broke this down while you were out of town on open mic. I want to know your thoughts. Now. This is the PR video. I think it's a good video. I. I said I'm okay with this one because it's actually funny. It's not corny, but I want to get your two cents on it.

[Mike]

Hey, good morning. What's going on?

[Tyler]

Good morning. So my car was broken into last night.

[Mike]

Was anything taken?

[Dominic Izzo]

Yeah, my purse is gone, my wallet's gone. Like, everything that was in there is pretty much gone.

[Mike]

Any windows broken or anything? How'd they get in?

[Ryan]

No.

[Mike]

Oh, I just left it unlocked. Oh, I just left it unlocked.

[Ryan]

Just left it unlocked.

[Dominic Izzo]

Oh, I just left it unlocked.

[Ryan]

Just left it unlocked. Unlocked, unlocked, unlocked.

[Mike]

Every time someone leaves their car unlocked, a police officer dies a little inside. No, but seriously, listen, lock up your cars, take all your valuables out, and help us prevent these vehicle burdens worries in the future.

[Tyler]

What do you think?

[Mike]

You know that's in my county, right?

[Tyler]

Oh, for real?

[Mike]

Sebastian Police Department, which is in Indian River County.

[Tyler]

Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know where that was. I thought it was in, like, they

[Mike]

make a lot of cringe. They. They jump on all the trendy cringe. Like, what's their police car make sound in the. In the. Does he open doors for you and all that stuff?

[Tyler]

Yeah, those are gay. And I've seen that cop doing those.

[Mike]

Yeah, he does. He. I know him.

[Tyler]

Oh, you know him?

[Mike]

Yeah, I mean, I worked here. I worked with him. That one, I. It's. It's kind of like the one I. I'll show you in a little bit. I brought a video where the problem is they don't. They're not really doing. How do I say this? It's video after video. So if you're going to put up a bunch of. If you're going to put up 50 cringe videos, one of them. I'll give it to you, that one's funny. That one is funny. It resonates. You want to strangle people when they say they left their car locked and you're like, he did what? Like, so that is. That. That one's funny. I'll give it to you, it's funny. I like. I can't knock that one.

[Tyler]

It's.

[Mike]

It's good. But they do the ones like laying down, looking in the window, and when you're texting on your phone. And all the trendy ones.

[Tyler]

It's.

[Mike]

And it's like, man, here's the thing. I got destroyed for doing this, dude. I got put in the international news for making these videos.

[Tyler]

What did you do?

[Mike]

I was doing the same, dude.

[Tyler]

No, it wasn't sanctioned. You didn't do it for the department.

[Mike]

I was a. I was a rogue PR guy. I was doing the. And actually the current sheriff, Eric Flowers, bought me a Ring Light because he loved the videos at the time and was encouraging it.

[Tyler]

He ate it and abetted you Until.

[Mike]

Until the Daily Mail got involved. And then I was a rogue piece of garbage. So I was cool. I was doing this really cool stuff way before it was cool, man. I was making these videos. I was taking my shirt off. I was doing all kinds of cool things. But no, that's what's funny. I mean, if you mix this, in my opinion, and then this is what I'll get to when we watch the video, I'm going to play later when you mix this in with real police work. I don't think this is a terrible video. But this is a. The reason I also like this. This is. This is original content. There's nobody else made this one like these guys. So it's not like a rip off. Right? You get the Netflix one right now, my documentary, you get the what does the police car make? And then they replay it. They're biting off each other. This. I'll give it to them. This was original content. This is funny. This is. You're right. Every time you say I left the car open, you want to. You're like this motherfucker. Yeah, like, I get it. So I'll give it to him. This one was good. They got some other ones that are horribly cringe and not good, but this one's funny. Please give me my.

[Tyler]

JoJo said you were cool before, it was cool to be cool.

[Mike]

Now they rip off the Savage Love dance that I pulled off the, you know, the Jason Derulo dance with no shirt and just skinny jeans on. Then I'll get impressed. Like, that's where it really gets interesting.

[Tyler]

So I'm proud of this comment section for seeing a cop in a turban and leaving it alone.

[Mike]

He's a good dude. I mean.

[Tyler]

Oh, is he?

[Mike]

Yeah, he's a good dude. And. And I'll like, you know, he always backed. He was good about backing up the county guys when we were in the city and listening to radio. So I'm not. I'm not gonna knock that.

[Tyler]

Is he a cop? Yeah, for Real?

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, he's on swat. All that in Sebastian Police department. But they get a pass on this one, right?

[Tyler]

I've.

[Mike]

I've critiqued them before. I've commented on their videos. They had a couple really bad ones. And I was like, yo, bro, what is this? And I. I don't know if I get the cold shoulder from those guys, but I can't be a hater and say it's not funny. I mean, that one is. That one hits home. That's a good one. There'll be another bad one. I'll send it to you when it comes out.

[Tyler]

All right, we're gonna take a quick commercial break, guys. We'll be right back. We got a couple more videos. We also got Dominic Izzo gonna. Gonna pick his brain about some stuff. And then of course, we've got the communist Ryan, a Marine communist. Coming up after the break.

[Dominic Izzo]

Over a century ago, in 1910, the

[Ryan]

Flexner Report, funded by John D. Rockefeller

[Tyler]

and the Carnegie foundation, re engineered medical education from a holistic whole body approach, which appropriately treated the body as an interconnected system, to a compartmentalized approach.

[Ryan]

Under the guise of specialized medicine.

[Tyler]

They shut down or consolidated medical schools,

[Ryan]

marginalized naturopathic, homeopathic and chiropractic medicine, replacing them with symptom management and synthetic drugs.

[Dominic Izzo]

Allopathy is a marketing strategy rooted in fear and manipulated science.

[Tyler]

This philosophy carries into veterinary medicine, resulting

[Ryan]

in over vaccination, unnecessary surgeries, and manufactured food, just like they did for people.

[Tyler]

They call it care, but it's predatory and based on profitability. The truth, toxicity, compromised immunity, and chronic inflammation.

[Ryan]

They're not fate, they're engineered.

[Dominic Izzo]

And so is your power to undo them.

[Tyler]

We built three targeted formulas to return

[Ryan]

the body to homeostasis for pets and people to detox, defend, and restore.

[Tyler]

We are the correction to decades of corruption.

[Ryan]

We are vengeance. Foreign.

[Tyler]

What up, guys? This show is also brought to you by Counterculture, Inc. Go to countercultureincthreads.com and use promo code antihero. You save 15 on the real graphic tees. Mainstream's over. Let's kill the trends. Countercultures here. The new 2026 logo is in. We make them in house. Plus all of the other graphic design tees we have, like prepare for war. What's the gun one I have that I like forever hold your peace. Memento more. I mean, we have all the OG ones. Lots of sales because we're making room for the new stuff. But this was the first new design launch this month, Counterculture Inc. And then we call it the 25 shirt. But you use a promo code, you're going to get it for even cheaper. So go to counterculture inkthreads.com and use promo code ANTI. Air save 15

[Mike]

and copvillog.com go to copvil og.com use code ANTIRE15 for 15 off. If you've noticed and been watching my story, I'm back to actually working again. I dropped like 10 new stickers in the last two or three days. So if you go to kavalogi.com use code ANTIRE15 for 15 off. You'll be able to save money on those stickers. I dropped it. Don't flock me, bro. Said it. Don't tase me, bro. I dropped a suspended sticker and I reached out to those guys who made that video and sent them some stickers. So go to cavillo g.com use code ANTIRE15 for 15. You're off your order. Don't be dumb. You got them. Goon tape. Goon tape provides the softest, no slip grip. For tools you count on most. Our premium RAID tape felt recoil wicks, moisture, and covers attachment rails so you can stay on target and in the fight even when the work gets wet. It's made proudly in America, so raid responsibly. Go to goontape.com use code anti or 15 for 15 off. Don't get mad at some of the stories they post. They're a good company.

[Tyler]

All right, anybody in yet? We got time to mess around.

[Mike]

My wife told the biggest lie she's ever told.

[Tyler]

Was that in history.

[Mike]

She said, am I coming on? I said, I don't care. She's like, but you guys already talked about everything. She says, I don't have anything to say. And I was like, you don't have anything to say? That's a lot.

[Tyler]

That's genetically impossible, Joe.

[Mike]

It's fully impossible. And the funny thing is, I think she's outside because I see the door. So she doesn't even hear me saying that. But, yeah, Jojo lied today. She doesn't lie ever. But she did tell a lie today because she said she had nothing to say.

[Tyler]

All right, let's talk about this one. This was sent to us multiple times. I'm sure you've seen it. I think this was my old agency, maybe an sro. Why do you let those kids get away with this?

[Dominic Izzo]

They are not supposed to be here.

[Ryan]

If you don't lower your voice, I am going to put handcuffs on you and I'm going to take you to a Bakery facility.

[Dominic Izzo]

Lower your voice. Try it.

[Ryan]

Are you threatening me?

[Dominic Izzo]

You're threatening me?

[Mike]

Are you threatening me?

[Dominic Izzo]

I'm going to just.

[Ryan]

Cuz, cuz, cuz. Cuz I'm here right now to deal with a stolen vehicle. I ain't got time to hear you screaming and yelling.

[Dominic Izzo]

I. I don't have time to constantly be abused.

[Ryan]

We'll get. We'll get OPD down here then. Cuz I got to.

[Tyler]

I got to work this stolen vehicle.

[Dominic Izzo]

What do you mean?

[Tyler]

OPD?

[Ryan]

Alpha 73. University.

[Mike]

Alpha 73.

[Ryan]

Can we get another unit to deal with Jay Lee here? He is having a break.

[Dominic Izzo]

Just say the right pronoun.

[Ryan]

What'd you say?

[Tyler]

Oh, my God.

[Mike]

Pepper spray. Stop.

[Tyler]

Oh, yeah, it gets worse. It's. It's bad on both sides. I. I could critique. I could definitely critique this, but we'll get down on the ground right now. No, no, you're about to get sprayed.

[Ryan]

No.

[Tyler]

Get down on the ground right now. Leave me alone.

[Ryan]

I can come in there.

[Tyler]

Leave me alone, please. Okay, are you gonna calm down?

[Dominic Izzo]

I'm.

[Tyler]

I'm getting my phone out.

[Ryan]

I've got.

[Tyler]

I have to film this.

[Ryan]

I'm telling you.

[Tyler]

Are you going to calm down?

[Dominic Izzo]

I will calm down.

[Tyler]

I will calm.

[Mike]

You know what this is?

[Dominic Izzo]

Calm down.

[Tyler]

Will you get the pepper spray out of my face?

[Dominic Izzo]

Leave me alone.

[Ryan]

I. I have.

[Dominic Izzo]

Stop pointing the pepper spray at me.

[Tyler]

I will calm down if you do that.

[Dominic Izzo]

Stop frying me.

[Ryan]

Lower your voice.

[Tyler]

Leave me alone. Leave me alone.

[Ryan]

Do you want to get tased?

[Dominic Izzo]

I want.

[Mike]

Stay alone.

[Dominic Izzo]

You have been particularly abusing me.

[Tyler]

If you come.

[Mike]

If you come towards me one more

[Dominic Izzo]

time, follow me, you are going to accept your bills.

[Tyler]

And I.

[Ryan]

You don't tell me, all right?

[Mike]

I would have walked away at that point.

[Tyler]

Long story short, I would have body

[Mike]

slammed it much earlier and taken it in.

[Tyler]

I think there's two ways to deal with this and you just said them both. Walk away. Let the school handle it. The school? He's having a mental breakdown. It's not anything criminal. If the school requests you to Baker, act them or request you. I bake rat. Criteria to me doesn't fit it. If the school's like, this is how he is all the time. Oh, okay, then maybe it's not Baker at criteria or you just go hands on and slam him on the ground. And maybe next time he'll think about screaming at a cop. There's two ways to do it. I like, but.

[Mike]

Well, I don't think they're ever going to learn their lesson about Screaming at a cop because they've been. Their mind has been altered that they think they can be a gender that they're not. So that's. That's out of the question for any type of semblance of reasoning. But yes, you take them into custody. Take. Cuff them. Take them. I would Baker, act up. I wouldn't arrest them. I would Baker, act them. Obviously they have a severe mental problems and in crisis. But yeah, if you also. If they were like, we do the arm barricades all the time where there's nobody else in the house. We just leave, right? We just go. It's 45 minutes is up, we're out of here. We're not making entry to. So, I mean, the peppers, like, come on, man. That's where I'm getting.

[Tyler]

Does the old man inside of us. Inside of you. The wise. I shouldn't say old. The wise man inside of you, the father with kids. Does any part of you feel bad that that kid is mentally deranged and mentally ill and he's running around probably without a father getting.

[Mike]

How do I say this?

[Tyler]

I feel bad for people like that. I really do.

[Mike]

Unfortunate that we have failed those people because if they were told at a young age, like, there's boys and girls, that's all there is. Like, if, like, I'm sorry, like, I wanted to be a millionaire, man, too. Really bad. I really did. But I can't take money to myself and call myself a millionaire.

[Dominic Izzo]

Right.

[Mike]

I can't change what I am. Yes, I do feel bad. I believe society in the country has failed the people. We allowed this to get too far. And I mean, I know what. The girl that pointed the other day, the basketball player. Yeah. She caught more hell for saying it was not right for biological men to play sports with women. And now it's all a problem again, like, it's like nuts. So, yeah, you always feel bad. Like, I. You don't want to see anybody in that kind of crisis. But I believe the country and our. And half the country that supports this has failed these people significantly. And who's left to take care of it? The mean cops, right?

[Tyler]

The police.

[Mike]

The catch all.

[Tyler]

Dominic.

[Dominic Izzo]

Hey, can you guys hear me okay?

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Dominic Izzo]

Do you hear me coming through this?

[Mike]

Yes. But you can tell, like, you're a little further away from. But it's fine.

[Dominic Izzo]

Well, I just want to make sure you guys are hearing me clearly. That's all beautifully great, man. Thanks. Appreciate it. Yeah, that kid that gets nuts.

[Tyler]

Yo, Dominic, I. I was recently contacted by a page called Delete loss. And you know, it's. I talked to him. I can vouch. I talked to. I could talk to him and you know, he wants to collaborate. And he asked me, essentially, he asked me. He's like, I don't think Dominic Izzo thinks very highly of me. And I said, dominic Izzo's never trash talked you. He just said he doesn't agree with the fact that you don't really make it a goal to hold change policing. You don't seem to. To go. And he was like, oh, I do, I do. I. I made these. He's got this thing called. And I'm gonna get. I'm gonna go on his show camera detention or something like that.

[Dominic Izzo]

Okay.

[Tyler]

Where you arrest someone and you tell them on camera that they are arrested and they are to follow you to the police station so that you don't have to handcuff people that are compliant. It's called like video detention or something. It's nuts.

[Mike]

Police are doing the police. Yeah.

[Dominic Izzo]

No, it's a lot like, oh, crap. I can't recall who has it. I think it is. I think. I don't want to associate him with some. Nothing to say it. There's a very well known first amendment otter who has legal shield that you get pulled over. You set your dad, your camera up and you call your lawyer and your lawyer kind of sits with you on a traffic stop, if you will. Because one of those apps. Here's my thing with Chili de Castro. I will trash talk him as a human being. I. I think Chili de Castro is a piece of. I do not like him as a human being. I think he is a brilliant man who has a lot to offer the benefits of educating police. He just chooses not to. It is capitalism at its finest. I don't have a problem with how he makes his money. He's doing very well. He's got over a million followers on all of his platforms. Extremely well educated. There is no going to argue that he is trying to help law enforcement improvement. If he was, we would see the aftermath. We would see him going up and attacking the police. Hey, pig. Hey. What? Dunce cap. Or those are the two words he loves to say all the time. You pig. I'm a constitutional scholar. And then after the issue was over, he would say, listen, I want to have a conversation. I came at you aggressively for a specific reason, because I wanted to sit there if I can get your goad. And if I did, I want to make this a training point for my audience. And he would show how the Sausage is made. Where Chili and I had an issue is that we did a over two hour podcast together, 2022 I think it was. And the second he was very cordial, very cordial. The second I brought up how asinine every politician who supported the barring of the Rear Naked Choke was, he went off the rails calling me bootlicker. I'll never change all this because I advocate for cops to use the Rear Naked Choke as the safest single technique in all of history to take somebody to custody. I think Chile is just, he's a great source of knowledge. He's extremely educated. I think he's just a piece of shit human being.

[Tyler]

So I'm going to get, am I going to get ambushed when I go on there?

[Dominic Izzo]

You, if you support police, of course you will, but you have to know what you're walking into. You should go on because it's great advertising, it's great connection. You should, if you have the ability to stay very calm and focused and, and you stand by what you say and you don't back down, you're, there's nothing you can't do. I just, I, I think he's disingenuous in his approach of I want to change law enforcement. No, you don't. You, you have no desire to do it. So plus, not to mention the fact I love the video of him crying in court. He's such a big bad guy who tells everybody I shoot cops for a living. And then when he got sentenced, even though it got overturned, he was crying in courts.

[Mike]

Him, okay, all right, well, and that's, I was talking about it. I saw, you know, and I watched some of his stuff and you're right, like if you really wanted to make law enforcement change, I, I agree that the highlighting of the bad, but you can't just capitalize on all the bad things because you're just basically watching the bad continue and making money off of it. When do you step in and go, let's, let's change this. Let's, you know, even like Sean Ray is offering to go to agencies and educate them on the Constitution and the detention laws and the First Amendment. You know, that's not his primary function, but he's willing to do it. I don't really know the guy. I, I, I've never, I've seen some of his stuff. I just make your own judgments. It's capitalism. You're never going to make money doing pro police. You're not going to be very popular amongst pro police because cops are cheap anyway. They're not going to spend money to watch you, but if you're anti cop, those people will spend money to hate cops and you're going to make more money doing it that way. So that's. It's a capital capitalism at its finest.

[Tyler]

Like, yeah, he went on, he went to the. It was weird. I told, I cut like a promo for the T shirt line had nothing to do with anti air. And I was talking about how, you know, like, the, the essential podcasting model is going to die out because everybody's trying to be in a podcast interviewer and just relying on guests and had nothing to do with police work whatsoever. And he commented on it and it was, it was pretty like, aggressive. And he's like, check your dm. So the person that runs the counterculture account was like, I, you know, maybe message anti air. But I saw what he put. It was pretty long and lengthy. And I don't air out DMS or text, but it was definitely like, you're not going to do this. You're not going to do this. You're too scared. And I was like, I, I sent him a message back. Like, why wouldn't I. Why would. I was like, to be honest with you, dude, if we probably agree on at least half of the things you're saying, you know, we, me and my co hosts always break down and hold cops accountable that violate people's rights. So, yeah, I mean, that was my plan is, is I'm going to go on a show and, and stand my ground and remain calm. And your goal is to, Even if it's 10 of those viewers, go, dude, this guy's pretty logical. Like, I'm anti cop, but he's pretty logical.

[Dominic Izzo]

Your goal in everything is education. That's what it is. But you can't, there's, there's three E's and anything, right? You've gotta engage, you know, by entertaining and then to educate. So ultimately speaking, it's like anytime we do podcasts or whatever, even in my content, right, you bash on female cops, you do all this stuff. Why? It's to educate people about what's going on. But unless you entertain people, you're never going to get their engagement. You can't go up and give a lecture on something else, dry, whatever. So there has to be sensationalism. What I can't stand about Chile is he's the biggest waste of talents. He has so much potential to do a world of good in this profession. And every, every academy on the planet should be contracting Sean Paul Reyes. And they should have, but I don't ever endorse it. Chili de Castro. But Chili de Castro has proven time and time again that he does not have the mental fortitude to advocate for proper change. So yeah, I will talk about him. Him for being so talented, for being so, so having so much potential and choosing to waste it is. He is a dunce cap.

[Mike]

Well, I think, you know, the bootlicker thing is always the first thing for anybody who supports the cops.

[Tyler]

Right.

[Mike]

I don't know what the term is, but for when you're always against the cops like there is, you can't look at all of them go with every, every contact is wrong. And a lot of those people refuse to acknowledge any good things the police do. And that's where it's like even Steve, Steve's a great dude. Steve comes in my comments, but you'll never see Steve ever give a positive comment about anything. And I think Steve's an entertainment genius because the comment section always stays engaged with him. But he just sticks his ground that it's always wrong. There's never any right. And I guess some people, especially if you're making a ton of money, if he were to even turn the needle towards the middle a little bit, I believe he would lose maybe some of his people that go, yeah, you know what I'm saying?

[Dominic Izzo]

Steve is brilliant. And that's the one thing that I, I had to make a decision on firsthand when I first started Cop Talk Live on YouTube is it was when I first started it, 2017, it was pure 100 closer. Yeah, I shelved it, I shelved it for years. I was doing ton of content, didn't touch it. It was all pro police. When I came back in March of last year, 2025 to start doing it again, it was, it was very negative. Police, right? It was coming back going, I can't believe what's going on, blah, blah. The day that I did my first pro support of a police shooting, it was the 17 year old autistic young man who had a knife behind a chain link fence. I, I could not believe how my audience turned against me. But I sat there and said, I don't give a shit. I have to be the person that is down the middle will call balls and strikes. This was great. This was bad. And people like Steve again. You and I go back to Steve all the time. I think he's the most consistent representative of what the peanut gallery is because Steve will even go, I don't like what you just posted. I don't agree with you. But X, Y and Z, he doesn't get personal. So that was the biggest decision I had to make was my channel. Probably could be a lot bigger if I was 100 anti cop. But I have to throw it in with, hey, you guys may not like this, but this is about why this was a lawful shoot or lawful use of force. And a lot of people hate it, but I don't care. My goal is to educate, not entertain.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And I mean it takes our conversations. I messaged you about this this morning, Dominic, but I haven't, I don't know if you saw it. I think it was like right before the show. But we talk about things like what's right, what's legal, like, can you. We broke down like a guy with a snow shovel that got shot or whatever. And then there's this one right here. And you're talking about someone that's confident in their abilities, looking at someone that is probably not capable of doing anything. But this is what I'm talking about. This is to me is good cop work once it works. He just saved that chick's life, dude. Because I believe all day he would have been justified in a court of law plugging her 100.

[Dominic Izzo]

And this is, this is, this is the bad of this circumstance. That was Chicago Police Department. That's phenomenal. Well done. It's the totality of the circumstances. Right here you have a cop and what's he going to do? He can, he can articulate in a report the subject was, you know, I knew them to be female, weaker than me. All of this blah, blah, blah, goes in, grabs a shovel. But on the baseline, on the baseline of that circumstance, you have subject, armed weapon. And the problem that, that people don't seem to understand is you. You're going to get cops who are like. And they're never going to say it right. I would have drilled or I would have done this. Because they're looking for the simplest, most common denominator that is easy that they can all get away with. Hey, I'm gonna shoot her. Don't, don't train me any new tactic where I have to go up and grab a shovel with one hand and the other hand, push, twist, throw all this. So that's the one thing I can't stand with people, especially who they don't know, which is most people don't. The they're talking about, which is use of force, is that cops are absolutely protected under the whole concept of objectively reasonableness in using deadly force at some of the most Easiest of circumstances. And when you keep putting in more and more shitty, inept candidates, you're going to have the landscape change where we're not going to have big bad tough cops like that anymore that are justified and going, hey, I'm going to put my hands on, rip the shovel up. We're going to have people go, no, shooting them is 100% justified. And it's going to be the new standard that citizens will accept. So you put, you put any one of the females that I post every single day in that same circumstance, have them shoot that woman and not an eye will bat about it whatsoever. You put any three of us in there, it's a five foot, 300 pound female with a shovel and we shoot her. We're.

[Mike]

Yes. You look at Bruno up in Jersey, he, he's a dude the same size as him with a baseball bat.

[Dominic Izzo]

Oh, wow.

[Mike]

And half the cops in America turn their back on the guy and all over him.

[Dominic Izzo]

Yeah, what happened yesterday? But what happened yesterday?

[Mike]

Which one?

[Dominic Izzo]

What, what video is going around now, right? Yeah, we watched it 100 and you can see all those cops. Well done, well done. Well, my argument would be, well, the guy's already incapacitated or dead, so why should the cop has shot him in the first place. Why couldn't he just bum rush him and tackle him like all of you said during Bruno? See, this is why I can't stand cops either because they pick and choose their battles.

[Mike]

The Bruno this is. You're right. You put those two videos together and what Bruno did stopped that next action, which is one of the cops getting their skull bashed in or an innocent person. So prior to that happening, Bruno took the appropriate action to stop that next step ahead of time and everybody had a problem with it. But when it's already in action. Oh God. Oh God. Kill him. Kill. So you're right. It's, it's. I talked to Bruno this morning, man. I talked to that guy regularly. I feel terrible for him.

[Dominic Izzo]

And well, that video, that video not only does a world for good for him, but that video singly. That video is one of the most important videos going around for law enforcement right now. And I've got a ton of content lined up on it. It is going to make such a difference how important social media affects after based on that video alone.

[Mike]

Yeah, I agree, but it's, it's, it's, it's amazing that that's what happens with cops is they don't see that next step every, they stop it at that. Well, he shot him before, he didn't. Well, he didn't shoot him before he did anything, but he was in the process of it leading to that. And I get. You can't just go, well, there's a gun three doors down in the back dresser. I thought he was going to go get it. Like, that's him. You know, you can't stretch that. But a guy actively doing all those things for eight minutes with a bat and then takes an aggressive stance, it's like, it's all there. I. I just don't understand it. And you're right. This could have been the same scenario. And you don't shoot him right away. He turns around, starts beating the. Out of a civilian. Now you have a dead civilian or a severely incapacitated civilian, and everybody's gonna go, you should have shot him two minutes ago when he was raising the bat over there. That's what they would say. But 100.

[Dominic Izzo]

Exactly those same council, the same cops are the ones who have justified somebody taking a boxing stance and you shooting and killing them, because what if. So, yeah, that's. Use of force is one of the most dynamic things out there. If done practiced and studied. Right. It could be so beautifully defended for law enforcement. The cops are their own worst enemies when it comes down to advocating for it.

[Mike]

And I also say, like, your. Your location, unfortunately, you talk about national lives and police a lot, and your location determines the outcome. We had the girls in Miami we haven't even talked about ever again. The girl shot the unarmed guy in the back in Miami. Five female officers. That's gone. Dude, that is absolutely gone. It never happened. There's no problem with it. And then you got Sal El Drati sitting In, you know, 1157 days, he's been indicted for a clear, perfect shooting. And because he's standing in New Jersey and Bruno standing in New Jersey and the other guy up and with the machete up there. They're standing in a. In a place where they don't support the police. They're all indicted. And then you got five chicks in Miami that blast a dude in the back unarmed, and they're completely fine.

[Dominic Izzo]

Yeah, I think federalizing police might be a good thing. Either that or just actually eradicate or eradicating all municipalities and going solely to sheriffs.

[Mike]

Joanna. Federal standards, like, because. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. How can a cop in Jersey encounter a guy with a gun and it's indicted? And then in Florida, you can pretty much shoot anybody. Anybody. It looks like they might have a. In Florida, it's going down. And you're not going to get indicted.

[Dominic Izzo]

We're screwed. Yes, it's clear. Clearly, clearly the answer to save law enforcement is to do more faux mock. My Netflix special series is about to premiere.

[Mike]

Yeah, I'm gonna make one later. You want to be in it with me? You can help me.

[Dominic Izzo]

Give me a key grip position. I'll get your coffee.

[Tyler]

Hey, Dominic, do you want to stay while we. I don't know if you've ever formally met Ryan the. The Marine. A Marine communist.

[Dominic Izzo]

No, I'll stay, I'm sure.

[Tyler]

All right. I want you guys to meet. He done doing his medicine. There we go. Ryan, what's up, man?

[Ryan]

Good morning, comrades. Thank you so much for the invitation to be here. Really glad to be present and in community with my fellow landless rent peasants.

[Dominic Izzo]

And

[Ryan]

yeah, thank you. What are we talking about? Good to meet you, Dominic. Thank you for your.

[Dominic Izzo]

You too. Appreciate it.

[Ryan]

And I think to, you know, fix policing in the United States, we need to increase social services. We need to have access to living wages and dignified employment. We need to have access to housing, health care. And this would, you know, help alleviate a lot of the working class and poverty class pressures that inform tension in our streets.

[Dominic Izzo]

What are you doing to progress that?

[Ryan]

I work in community mental health on San Francisco's 6th Street. And so I'm directly working with the most impoverished community in that is surviving engineered inequality in the city of San Francisco.

[Dominic Izzo]

And what, what are some of the main challenges you see?

[Ryan]

So income inequality. San Francisco has some of the richest people in the country. I think we have about 12 billionaires that live here. And so all of their political power that comes from that which we call what's the opposite of grass, like turf, right. Where they try to have perceptions of grassroots, but it's really like astroturf billionaire sort of desires that gets perpetrated in our news and in our system. And so one thing I'll share with you specifically is in San Francisco we had a policy where new construction, new housing construction had to have 15% of it low income housing right under market rate housing. And so San Francisco does have the highest rents in the entire country. And the city of San Francisco, in their infinite wisdom, reduced that quota from 15% to 5%.

[Dominic Izzo]

Have you been able to house anybody, like, as you have anybody directly in your care that has needed subsidized housing or, or any Type of Section 8 or anything, and you've been able to put them in a position to see them, the effect on them?

[Ryan]

My entire caseload are people that lived in subsidized housing.

[Dominic Izzo]

And so what's the, what progression? Is there any been any length of time? Meaning you got somebody who was in a circumstance, didn't have a job, drug addiction, came from some kind of background, then they had an opportunity. Has there been any level of measurable progression between the day when you got them that housing and any type of effects that you've seen from them since?

[Ryan]

Absolutely. And that's why housing first is the evidence based practice.

[Dominic Izzo]

What are some examples that you've seen of a progression of people getting. Here's my question. That's going to get you on a gotcha. Everyone should know that when you get stuff or handouts for free, the, the character, one of the biggest things and there's everything that you've seen. I've heard yourself your stuff before, it's awesome. I, I don't know what I identify as, liberal or conservative. I know that conservatives are some of the biggest hypocrites on the planet. Right. But liberals have some idiot ideology and I think that there's a lot of things out there that are fantastic. Free health care 100%. I grew up with my father in the grocery business. He ran grocery stores forever. And he would get so pissed off because I know it's law. Day old milk or day old bread you have to throw out. You cannot donate day old bread. You can't donate day old milk because if somebody eats a loaf of bread that's expired after a day or a gallon of milk, they'll get sick. They can sue the company, right? So instead of feeding the homeless, which we could do, instantly, our government steps in on that. I think free health care, free education, all of that is a phenomenal idea. But then I'm like, well, who's going to pay for it? What I do know from being a business owner, and I've seen this in practical application, I owned a gym for several years and I was very passionate about what I taught. What I taught was so important to me that I had two groups of students. Those who could pay, those who couldn't pay. And I taught them the exact same with the exact same patients. Those who could pay were my best students. They saw value in what I did. They paid tuition. They were the ones that the skill was evident on them and I was very proud to have them wear my name on their backs when they represented me. The ones who couldn't pay, man, you know, I can't pay this month. Come on in. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Their skill set was in the toilet because they did, they took advantage and by human nature they don't have to work for it. So ultimately speaking you, you work with people from the section 8 homes or whatever it is called now. I did too. It was always, not sometimes, always the case. Anytime you have someone that gets something without having to work for, does not have value in their eyes and they take advantage of it and shit goes downhill. So what I'm asking specifically is even if it's one case, have you seen anybody gone from rags to riches? They were in a shit situation, you gave them an opportunity. They're no longer on drugs or model citizen. They've climbed all the way up to the corporate ladder. Or is it still people who feed you the handful of bullshit excuses every single day because they pull on your compassionate heartstrings? I mean, does that make sense?

[Ryan]

Thank you for the question. I think that yes, the rags to riches is definitely part of like the American dream in a lot of ways. And this is why a lot of us have joined the military, part of the socioeconomic poverty draft to go from rags, get the GI bill, get the job training, get things like this, get socialism basically so that we can pursue, pursue riches. This was my case, you know, my hope and I know I'm not alone. And so I think we do have to examine that. The mythology of upward social mobility is just that we have more social caste and not as much social class. And so this idea of like people don't sort of take advantage of things unless they have, you know, sort of a buy in like a skin in the game. Right. I think that's curious. And I wonder how you sort of frame this in the context of, you know, the 2018 bank bailouts and the fact that corporate.

[Dominic Izzo]

I'm not. I don't mean to finish, bro.

[Ryan]

Please, I didn't interrupt you.

[Dominic Izzo]

You're right.

[Ryan]

Corporate welfare vastly exceeds social welfare in the United States. So where's your take on this? Unearned, unearned income.

[Dominic Izzo]

It's, it's deflection. You can't answer the question. I appreciate that. The bottom line is if you gave me a car, I, I would. Okay, I drive it this and that. If I had to buy a hundred thousand dollar plus car, I would baby the out of that. Wash it every day. It's value, it's perceived value. And that's an inherent innate human quality. You cannot remove move of socialism. It's very simple. People operate, especially males every single. This is a very big reason for the downfall society with males as well. Out there too. We stopped having our boys earn things. I don't know how old you are. I watched the whole participation award, trophy, award with sports ruin our masculine men, our men don't earn things, don't fight things. We have a very, very unhealthy male society mentally and physically. So ultimately, and I'm not trying to disrespect you, I'm just saying you give a canned answer, which is safe, right? And that's an us against them mentality. Believe it or not, I agree with a lot of what you say. But for the most part you, you specifically are boots on the ground dealing with everyday real cases. But you feed the narrative of a generalization that pulls on the heartstrings of people that don't see how the sausage is made. Bottom line, you get people shit for free, they're always going to take advantage of it and they're never going to improve anything. And I wanted to know if you have any specific measurable cases of where you've seen someone turn their life around because they were given an opportunity versus how many people suck off the government heat and take advantage of the situation.

[Ryan]

No one sucks on the government teat more than private contractors, more than so called entrepreneurs. So let's be real, right? I noticed how you didn't answer that question, right. What is the value of nepotism and the oligarchy where born into wealth and you're just the investor class, never have to work a day in your life. And these are the people that run the country, comrade. And so yes, what I will say though about 6th street in San Francisco was built after the 1906 earthquake and it was built for low income people, people that worked on the ships in the ports and low income senior citizens, day laborers. It was not built for long term residency, which is what it's being used for now. Where people live in these cells where you can touch both walls and you have to use a community bathroom to be able to pee or. Right. A lot of the elevators don't work and people with like amputees from diabetes have to crawl up and down stairs. Right. Just to like lay their head. And so this is not really free handouts or really this is marginalized housing. Right. Where it's not exactly like dignified living. It's inadequate.

[Dominic Izzo]

Do they pay, do they pay rent or any type of rental space a

[Ryan]

third of their income? Yes, sir.

[Dominic Izzo]

Okay. Again, you'd make a great politician or a great pharmaceutical rep that is massively talking about the symptoms that should terrify everyone. Without any, Any. Any curable case whatsoever. It's a very simple question. What do you think the ratio is if you have a hundred people that you're working cases? Watch. What is the percentage of those who have benefited from what your service offers? And then what is your opinion? Because your. Your compassion, your love for these people, it should not be brushed under the. Under the carpet. It shouldn't be recognized. But you can also be taken advantage of. Right? So what percentage of them has said, my God, thank you for helping me, and then you've seen a measurable improvement in the quality of their contribution to lives and others versus how many people sitting back and just taking advantage of you? Have you had any personal experience with that?

[Ryan]

Substantial. Tremendous. And this is why, like, why I'm so underpaid and why I'm so. Why I, like, risk my life literally, to help these folks. Right, Because.

[Dominic Izzo]

So that's a great question. I'm talking about you. You are compassionate, you are. You are caring, you're articulate, you clearly care about something, but you're underpaid. You can't give what you don't have if you don't eat for a week. But you want to feed others, your body is not going to have the strength in order to go out and make the dinner or even shop, let alone for those people. Right? So here's you. You are advocating a voice. You're on podcasts, you're doing all this, and you are underpaid. Do you think that your. Your. Your work, your work ethic and your contributions have value? And if so, do you think that you should be compensated for the Sam Gordos, or do you just donate your time? And if so, do you think that's a problem?

[Ryan]

Living wages is the conversation we need to have. Profit is unpaid wages and labor exploitation is the bedrock of capitalism. So absolutely, there is a delta. There is a gap in the value of my labor and my wages. Right?

[Dominic Izzo]

How tall are you?

[Ryan]

How tall I am.

[Dominic Izzo]

No, how tall are you? Legitimately?

[Ryan]

5? 10?

[Dominic Izzo]

You're taller than me. How much do you weigh?

[Ryan]

218 pounds.

[Dominic Izzo]

Okay, I outweigh you. How old are you?

[Ryan]

46.

[Dominic Izzo]

Okay, you're younger than me. If you. If you and I have the exact same bare base income, right? Food allowance, if you will, and that's it. And we are only allowed two pieces of bread and a glass of milk per day. That will sustain me. But you're younger, you're bigger, you. You burn more energy, and you work harder. You need two glasses of milk, four pieces of bread. But the government says, hey, with your money, you only get a living wage. You did not get any profit to spend any excess how you feel you should. Do you think that is right?

[Ryan]

I don't think it's right that we are limited to two slices of bread when that's what.

[Dominic Izzo]

That's what it is, right?

[Ryan]

Livable wage on the other side of town, right here.

[Dominic Izzo]

Forget about them. Nothing's ever going to change. Right? Let's change our mindset first. Right? Let's change the boots in the ground. What we could do. We could. Why not?

[Ryan]

That is why learned helplessness. Forget about these billionaires. Forget about the Epstein list. Forget about these forever wars for the benefit of the Zionists and the military industrial complex, because that's never going to change.

[Dominic Izzo]

So if you're stranded. If you're stranded on a desert island learning how to fish and hunt, you want the billionaires to come and bail you out, right? I just learned helplessness. I don't need to. I don't need to learn how to adapt to the circumstance.

[Ryan]

These, like, the creativity of your hypotheticals is remarkable.

[Dominic Izzo]

But they're. But they apply. Correct.

[Ryan]

I don't live on a desert island. I live in San Francisco.

[Dominic Izzo]

No, but people live. People live in poverty. Correct.

[Ryan]

Where do you live, Dominic?

[Dominic Izzo]

I live in Chicago and I supply my time between Sacramento and Chicago.

[Ryan]

Chicago has a lot of similarities.

[Dominic Izzo]

Garbage and. Yes.

[Ryan]

Gentrification, redlining. Right. Outcomes of engineered inequality.

[Dominic Izzo]

Okay, and what happened to those people? So I, I worked the police department. I worked for, got a. A bunch of the people who were relocated from the Cabrini Green housing projects. Have you heard of those? Cabrini Green.

[Ryan]

I've seen the Candyman. Candyman.

[Dominic Izzo]

Candyman. Right. Well, so if you go down to where Cabrini Green was now, it's like, damn, you could walk at night. Those people who moved up to our area were some of the biggest problems that we had. Right? But they were given almost next to nothing. On the apartment complex that they were given, it was called Cedar Villas. If you went in through Cedar Villas, you would see every single door had dent marks on them from search warrants that we had to serve or doors we had to kick in. And that was. That was the place in town you didn't want to go to. So is it nurturing nature, society, culture? You've got some great solutions. You really do. But the one thing that you personally refuse to acknowledge is not everybody thinks like you or me, and they have individual viewpoints and culture significantly has a hold on them. Right. The Black community will never agree with you. The Asian community will never agree with you. Right? There's always that. So, ultimately speaking, the one thing that is going to be the downfall of your argument, my argument, anybody else's, is human nature and human behavior. You just can't stop it, no matter how good your intent or solutions are.

[Ryan]

I think that we sort of oversimplify human nature. We allow colonial and con histories of conquest to inform what we believe is human nature.

[Dominic Izzo]

Brother, until you have a solution for. For how to stop human hunger, lust, greed, any of those things, until you can plant a chip in people's heads that says, hey, men, they're gonna stop raping because of their lust issues, or people are gonna stop robbing because they want X, Y and Z. Until you put a cap on that, none of your solutions are ever gonna work.

[Ryan]

I have solutions. The solution is eliminate billionaires. Right? You reach 999 million, you've won capitalism and everything that's earned beyond that is redistributed.

[Tyler]

I have a question. Like that theory, is that just like, ideally, or is that like a reality in a communist mind that we could ever get rid of billionaires? Like it, obviously. I really think you're smart. I know you know, that's would probably practically never happen. So is it more just like. What's that?

[Ryan]

Ask Luigi.

[Tyler]

Well, he just killed. He's just killed a guy, and then he's gonna spend the rest of his life in prison.

[Ryan]

Damn. Altman has had two Molotov cocktails thrown at his home in San Francisco in this year. I'm not advocating.

[Tyler]

My bad. So you mean eliminate. I'm not gonna put words in your mouth, but could it be said that while when someone says eliminate billionaires, they mean kill them, not just get rid of. Not just, like, legally sanction them to not have a billion dollars, we're talking, like, killing them.

[Ryan]

I would say, like, part of it is the work we're doing here, right? To sort of take wealth off of its pedestal. You know, we grew up on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous Cribs, right? These sort of propaganda films that made ostentation wealth, ostentatious wealth, some sort of, like, aspirational value, right? Rags to riches, like my guy Dominic mentioned. And I think we have to take that off its pedestal. We have to acknowledge that this is actually greed and this is wealth and

[Dominic Izzo]

property, which you're defining human behavior.

[Ryan]

Hey, bro, like, we've had a, like, respectful conversation. I didn't interrupt you one time, my man. So please, like, if I know, keep it burying yourself like I'll excuse myself bro, if this is how it's going to be like I don't need to like I'm here to help. I'm unpaid label careful.

[Dominic Izzo]

Because what, what if we're in a socialist society and you've got three loaves of bread and you face someone like me who can take them from you? You're going to talk your way out of it. If these are problems you have, everything you're just describing is literally sans the responsibility of you putting onus on the fundamental human behavior out there. You want to blame advertisers for recognizing that we as human beings are knee jerk reaction slobs will do whatever they say. How about having us saying hey, have some self pride, educate yourselves better and don't fall for every trap that the media puts in front of you. I haven't heard you accept or advocate for personal responsibility yet.

[Ryan]

Just pausing to make sure that you are complete. There's absolutely and this is what I do in my work, I practice liberation psychology. So I look at the political, the historical, the economic, the cultural factors that create individual outcomes. And then I also look at individual choices. And for some people I help them disentangle guilt and shame and I point their personal like guilt towards actually this is a political, social, historical, economic system that created your specific outcome. And there's folks where that do kind of point to the external, these external forces and maybe avoid personal responsibility. And that is my work to develop the relationship and help folks discern between what is their personal responsibility and what is a systemic. And so the question I think comrade is what is the collective responsibility to one another, right? Do people that are unhoused deserve felonies for living on the street? Do they deserve all this homeless architecture of spikes in park benches and all the anti poverty architecture that's out there. Like what do poor people deserve in this country, Dominic?

[Dominic Izzo]

Yeah, but you we agree on that. I don't think that homeless people should be given felonies for putting out a park, Spence. And I don't think anybody's ever done that. If they did that, you're right, that's stupid. But where is the onus? Hey dummy, don't sleep on the street. Chicago, we had a winner. Winner Vortex. I think it was maybe 2019 or something and they had an additional like 400 beds set up for the homeless people in Chicago. 3 the News reported the three people took a up. You can create the most ingenious system on the planet. You have to acknowledge and I'm telling you, if you don't acknowledge this because you've seen it in San Francisco, then I am calling you a liar. People, doesn't matter how much opportunity you will give them. I'm going to give you a shave, a haircut and education train you. Hey, I've got a trades job lined up for you. You're good at math. I've got an accountant's line job alignment for you. I'm going to get you in this door, blah blah. How many times have you personally set someone on the path to taking the first step to bettering their lives and they don't even show up for the interview the next day. If you can't acknowledge that, then everything you're arguing with which I support is nothing more than political theater and you are part of the problem.

[Ryan]

I think that yes, I have my own moral injury for participating in the non profit industrial complex that does try to provide therapeutic services to folks where actually like revolution would benefit their outcomes better than me. Helping folks feel better about their systemic inequality and their engineered poverty.

[Dominic Izzo]

And that's not what I asked. Question does it does it hurt when you bust your ass as high as you do when you take the criticism from the comment section of this podcast every week and I'll to come on this podcast every week takes some serious balls when you know that you're criticized. You put your heart and soul out there every day. Does it hurt when you offer somebody an opportunity to improve themselves? They spit in your face, they don't show up anything. And then you have to come on the next week and go well it's about the socioeconomic imbalance of billionaires. Instead of saying this motherfucker hurt because I worked with this guy for 12 weeks and he stuck it up my ass when he didn't show up when I vouched for him for a job interview or housing. Does the humanity of you ever acknowledge that sometimes people fucking suck and the system will never change because they will never change change.

[Ryan]

I think the system sucks more than people and I practice soft on people, tough on systems. And yes, no shows is a big sort of phenomenon in our population. And there's even white paper, there's evidence based science, contingency management programs to help folks engage, right? And man, I know when I'm in my own mental health challenges, I don't respond to text messages, I don't answer my phone, people knock on my door, I'm not answering it. So like we have to acknowledge that there are serious mental health challenges that do we agree.

[Dominic Izzo]

We agree. And that's a problem with the generation that you came after. I was beat. I have a very loveless. I have a lovely.

[Tyler]

It is.

[Dominic Izzo]

It is. My generation was raised by Dr. Spock and we had very heavy handed parents. We. You cannot be soft. You cannot be soft on those participating in the system when the system is designed for them to fail. The fact. And what you just said is the primary reason why we fail. We lead with compassion instead of preparation for people to go to a proverbial war every day in a society that God has it out for them. Your love, your compassion will set people up for failure and they will never succeed because you're not tough enough on them.

[Ryan]

Hey, man, I agree with you that this system is designed for poor and working class people to fail. The system is designed for property owners, billionaires, to extract everything that they can. It's not Reagan's trickle down neoliberal economics. It's a siphoning up from the bottom. Nick. Yo, my guy. I have not interrupted you one time.

[Dominic Izzo]

Go ahead.

[Ryan]

I think this is probably a good place to pause, you know, I'm so glad.

[Tyler]

Yeah. I'll tell you, I'll tell you what, Ryan, we have a couple minutes left. If Dominic, if you wouldn't mind, he hasn't.

[Dominic Izzo]

I'll jump off.

[Mike]

Right.

[Dominic Izzo]

It was, it was good to talk to you. You gotta. I appreciate you, but hopefully someday, you know, you'll, you'll, you'll wake up. So you guys.

[Ryan]

Yeah, the guy with the status quo, the empire's narrative, the middle aged white guy is so woke and so just aware. Thanks, dude, for your insights.

[Tyler]

Well, all right. So, Apollo, like, I don't want to say apologies because you're a good debater. He's a good debater, but we didn't really get to have you come on. And there was a time issue, so we were like, oh, let's just have them come on. But I wanted to say this whole time, today I realized half my. Oh, Mike, he can't hear you.

[Mike]

I gotta go out.

[Ryan]

No, it's just when we interrupt each other, it's hard. Okay.

[Tyler]

Oh, I was gonna say, I just realized today half my paycheck goes to health insurance for my family. That is infuriating. When you don't have some kind of retirement or government assistance to get. If you don't qualify for government assistance and you're stuck in this weird, like you're not poor enough, but you're not, I don't want to say lucky, because people that earn people that earn health insurance out of retirement I do believe deserve it. They earned it. They I'm not But I'm in a weird conundrum with a lot of people. I have to pay for private health insurance in order to make sure my kids can go to the doctor. It is half of my paycheck every month like one paycheck for two paychecks for what I do.

[Dominic Izzo]

Yep.

[Tyler]

This media goes right to health insurance.

[Mike]

I agree that the people's health should have never been part of capitalism. Making money off of the downfall drugs cancer like cancer drugs like all those things that they put money insulin things to keep humans alive should never been allowed. And one thing I was thinking the whole time you guys were going back and forth was the 28 you said the 2018. But what about the 20082009 bailouts that saved all those companies we spent I think any may got $90 billion on bank of America got a hundred billion. If they would have failed. If they would have failed the only repercussion would have been a bunch of Americans would had a free house. We couldn't let that happen.

[Tyler]

Right.

[Mike]

We weren't going to let the banks fail. So the government spent like $700 billion to bail out car companies banks AIG got money and every day Americans fail all the time. We fail. And you go you live on 6th street in San Francisco or do the fent walk and all that. And some of that is their own choices, some of that is lack of resources. And it shows me that the billionaires are more important. Nobody with that kind of connection to a government like Obama or George Bush was going to go hey I'm going under. My entire billions and billions are going under. They said no we're going to bail you out. We're going to make sure you stay alive. And what really like I said the only repercussion from like bank of America going down may have been some light savings but it would have been millions of houses would have had no mortgage. And but I'll take a right so it's, it's proof that there is a certain level you get to you achieve a status in this country where you can't fail. You can't fail. They won't let you fail because of politics and and government and and that 1% club is never going to let a member fall out of graces. I mean some argue Epstein might still be alive. Right. He was part of that 1% group and he disappears out of a prison and hung himself. So they I, I, I Do agree with you that unfortunately the average citizen can die on the street and nobody really cares. But the 1 percenters will not allow themselves to go down.

[Ryan]

Michael, I really appreciate this generous conception, right? Because most folks that are capitalists or anti communists won't acknowledge any of the cracks in this sort of Faberge egg of the bourgeoisie. And so I really just appreciate that because we can like work with that, right? We can keep dropping little drops of water to help kind of that, that grow because. Because yeah Tyler, you're onto something, right? Why do we pay so much in our income taxes? Why do we pay so much for healthcare when look up how much Bezos paid in taxes, right? These billionaires give themselves $1 salaries so they have no tax liability and they grant themselves stocks, right? And so we have like no capital gains taxes which is how the wealthy stay wealthy and why, right? Us, we pay for everything. And so there's this idea of like socialism for the rich which is basically what you were just describing and brutal capitalism for the poor. But actually this is really just capitalism. This is just how it's designed to.

[Mike]

I don't know that I could concede like money all the way. I would concede health care 100 there's nobody should suffer and not have to worry that I'm, I can't go to. I have a horrible cough, I feel sick, my kidneys are hurting but I can't afford to go get help. That is, that's mind boggling that we're living in a country where that is an option. So that when you get into like wages and hard work that's where I think Dominic, I go a little bit with him that if you give people too much they're going to by nature people are not, they don't have good intentions a lot of people so they will take advantage of the system. But healthcare, I can separate healthcare completely and say no one should have to worry about going to get health care and get taken care of. That's ridiculous.

[Ryan]

Love that. And I, I agree with you, right. We should not be giving people too much. And the people that are receiving too much which we really need to focus on are the trillionaires now and billionaires. It's not this poor, you know, poverty class person that's getting 600 bucks a month from the city of and county of San Francisco. And I think we're down to like $200 in EBT now. So poor people can only have $200 a month for food, right. Like Dominic was talking about restaurants have to Destroy food. I think we destroy about 40% of our food in the United States. So there's so much waste. Right. So much fraud, so much abuse that all benefits the top. And so hopefully we can have more respectful conversations where we allow each other to be heard and we can you know disentangle and disrupt a lot of the Empire's McCarthyist Red Scare propaganda that misinformed poor and workingclass people to demonize policies that benefit poor and working class people.

[Mike]

Yeah. And I think we can, like I said we can take our small steps. I'll get there with you. On healthcare it's just I am more. I'm sure Tyler is too. We're more jaded by what we've seen in the police world from places where people are given a lot of benefits and a lot of opportunities. And I'm not getting the house. I understand the housing side of it and all that stuff. Stuff too. But I can. You're just gonna have to deal with the fact that we're so jaded in that area that we've seen people with massive amounts of free income and free things that choose to take advantage of them and not actually use them. What they're for. I mean like I said there's a common thing in the, in the, in the lower class neighborhood where you'll go to a store and you'll ring up a candy bar and they'll charge you, they'll give you cash back like a thousand dollars whatever your EBT card was worth. They'll do like cash transactions ring up fake. So there's a lot of fraud that goes on in there. But I will concede on healthcare there is no one should suffer 100 and

[Ryan]

I appreciate these things and I'll agree with you. Right. That they do occur.

[Dominic Izzo]

Right.

[Ryan]

Poor and poverty class people have to get creative to meet our basic needs. Right. But I want to just acknowledge and hopefully we can acknowledge that street level crime and so called fraud is like a drop in the bucket in comparison to corporate fraud, government fraud, corruption, white collar crime and the system. I think that you're talking about the particular mechanism that makes all this possible is called Citizens United and it basically granted corporate personhood where there's. Corporations can contribute unlimited to political campaigns.

[Mike]

I agree. And across the board I can see that those type of crimes are always harder. That goes right into like child sex trafficking because it's difficult to investigate and often we picked what the dumbest thing I used to hate this guy say but we picked a low hanging fruit. Right. The easiest arrest to make are drug arrests on the street. Investigate little small crimes, drug crimes, shoplift. We, we tend to, because it's so complex to avoid those large scale scale fraud schemes and, and hedge funds and all those things that are really, really bad and then trafficking of children and all that stuff tend to get ignored because it's just more difficult to investigate. And I think we don't, we don't do a good enough job with that. And I think that trickles down to we know these millionaires are doing all these things but it's really difficult to get in their circle because they have so much protection and there's so many loopholes for them that we, the, the poor stay poor and we continue to you know, pad our stats for per se with arrest numbers in a, in an easier, easy, easier crime to investigate. It's harder to investigate that fraud type stuff on the high level because there's also protection. They all have friends in politics. It is, I'll give you that. It's a, it's a club and if you're in that club, you're pretty well protected from failing. They're going to all protect each other.

[Ryan]

So the Sacklers are still rich and free.

[Tyler]

Right.

[Ryan]

Let's remember Oliver north and Iran Contra. Let's remember that Southern California officer that uplifted how the CIA invented crack and distributed it in Southern California as a specific way to target populations for mass incarceration. Let's acknowledge Afghanistan and Operation Enduring Freedom. That was a 20 year American heroin colony. To really acknowledge that the United States is probably among the biggest dope dealers. Right. Was the, the Iron river is American weapons that flow into Mexico to the so called cartels. And so you know, but yeah, let's, let's demonize the poor person that's in the fentanyl fold because they, they had horrific trauma in their childhood and they're self medicating. Right. Rich people avoid a lot of the systemic traumas and they have resources, rehabs, therapy to help them process trauma that a lot of our community on the street self medicates through street drugs.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Well Ryan, one thing I want to do is say you know, you know me, I'm very upfront with you. I, I did not want you to. I don't, I wish I would have given you some a couple hours notice like hey there might be a debatable style thing going on today. Dominic's very knowledgeable like you and so

[Mike]

you're being, knowing you're walking in Ryan, right now you're.

[Tyler]

I should have told you to bring a shield.

[Ryan]

Yo, I'm open to it. I never know what to expect on this ride, and I'm just glad to be on it. And I think the dude is smart and he has a background in, you know, mass incarceration. And so I think we could have some good conversations if we hold it in a container. But I do want to acknowledge, right, we're talking about the same topic, people getting free handouts. And he described it as a deflection when I was pointing us towards corporate welfare, which vastly exceeds social welfare. And he didn't respond to it. And he described it as a deflection when. No, this is the same thing. It's just the other side of the coin that you refuse to look at.

[Mike]

I agree. The bailouts on the, on the corporate side far exceed, I believe, the money that's been given to, you know, everyday Americans by a lot.

[Tyler]

I will say this too. When you're broke, you start looking at things a little differently. Like, I never, you know, health care was healthcare. We always paid it. Taxes, healthcare, this, that, and the other thing. Then when you got no money, you see, start going, what the wait, yeah, like, my. Your kids can't go to the doctor, you know, Then you're like, my kids can't eat. What are you talking about? Like, we have to budget. Like, you have to tell your kids, like, hey, we can't. We have to eat this, this. And it's like, that was never in my life. I never had to do that.

[Dominic Izzo]

Yeah.

[Mike]

The words I can't afford the medicine should never be uttered by an American or anybody, anybody, honestly. And honestly, we make fun of it. You make fun of me wanting to go to Thailand and all these other places, but. But they have the most excellent healthcare system. They call them third world countries. But for 50 bucks a month, you'll get tip top healthcare because they made that a priority from the start. So there's no reason an American should utter the words, I can't afford that drug. I can't afford that procedure. That should be pretty, pretty obvious that we should take care of that for people.

[Ryan]

And let's acknowledge that more Americans are retiring in Vietnam because they can't afford to. In the United States, they call themselves the racist and classist term of expat instead of immigrant or refugee because we are, we're different. We're not them. Right? And I just want to acknowledge, right, in the wealthiest country in the world, we have elders, right? Seniors, probably the most precious part of our culture, eating cat food so that they can Afford their prescriptions.

[Mike]

Well, if you're here in Indian river county and you're eating cat food and you go to Target and grab a couple hundred dollars, a couple like 100 worth of groceries, the cops will arrest you even at 90 years old. So that shows you that there's a problem, right? Like, we can't take care of our elderly. And that happened, actually happened here in this county where an elderly, elderly woman was arrested for taking food who had no food available. And that seems a little extreme to me. Me as well.

[Tyler]

So taking a jail.

[Mike]

Yep, taking a jail.

[Ryan]

And it's interesting, right, that in outside of nearly every grocery store that I've been to here in San Francisco, there's a cop car right out front and there's an officer right at the door. The Apple Store, also, same thing. They put their big RV command center right in front of the Apple store. And so think about this, right? We're not trying so hard to disrupt this Epstein list and hold these people accountable. Sacklers are free, like we just discussed. But hey, hey, poor person. If you steal a loaf of bread just to be able to eat and survive the day,

[Mike]

Hammer, God forbid you grab that iPhone that's marked up 390, 300,000% that cost, like 87 cents in China to be made, and you steal it, we're gonna make sure you go to jail.

[Tyler]

Right?

[Mike]

You're going.

[Ryan]

So, in closing, thank you for inviting me to be here. Look forward to next week and the comments section especially. I will just say there's a California rapper named Bamboo. He's also a Navy veteran, and he's made a song about if you see anybody stealing food.

[Tyler]

No, you didn't.

[Dominic Izzo]

All right.

[Tyler]

Hey, thank you for your contribution. You. You were right on that. Thank you so much. And we'll see you next week.

[Ryan]

Much love. Thank you.

[Tyler]

Later, man. It took us right up to the end.

[Mike]

Yeah, here we are.

[Tyler]

It was good, man. Watching them two debate was good.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

I think me and you being hosts, it's our business. This is literally our business. We have to not be. So we can't always be the other side. So when Ryan comes on, most the time, he's hit with zero opposition. And so I did not know that the debate was going to happen.

[Mike]

No, that was good. I mean, that's unplanned. I mean, you're right. Like, the chat is really the opposition at this point. And, you know, we can't. The guy's going to be a regular contributor. I wouldn't want to show up if I know that Mike or Tyler's going to scream at me for 20 minutes. I think we're fair, though. We debate, we get into it. And. And, you know, I think. I think that was a. An excellent debate. Him. And I think Dominic has enough patience, even though he did interrupt a few times. It is. It is what it is, but he has enough patience to listen. You know, Dominic will debate anybody. Obviously Ryan will. So that's always a good time. That would be a. I guess I didn't see it.

[Tyler]

So what'd you say?

[Mike]

I didn't see G Money and him go at it last week.

[Tyler]

They didn't. G Money. I told. I said to. He was hosting. And I said, as a host, okay, you have to play neutral. This isn't a you versus him. And so. And then, you know, G Money's sitting there essentially with his metaphorical hands, ties to his chair, just taking hits because Ryan got personal with him, started challenging him as fatherhood or. Yes, I. It. I think Ryan wasn't used to G Money being handcuffed. Metaphorically. And so Ryan came out swinging and

[Mike]

G Money had to take advantage of the situation, huh?

[Tyler]

Yeah. Yeah. But I appreciate G Money honoring my request to stay neutral and act as a host. And he did so. Fd. Ffd. Oh, sorry, man.

[Mike]

Yeah, I was gonna read it.

[Tyler]

Go ahead. First time catching a live. Great show, you guys. Hopefully the new schedule, I can catch more. Hell yeah, man. Thank you so much.

[Mike]

Yep, thank you. We appreciate it.

[Tyler]

Get to know all these guys in here, man. If you got. If you know anything about Discord, which I didn't until last month, these guys will walk you through, man. It's a good community. We call it the 99, as you probably heard me say it a million times. But it's good to see you in the live, man. We're trying to get more people in the live so we can engage more. That's the whole point of the show, is audience participation and engagement. It's always good when the comments are rolling through so fast, I can't even keep up with putting them on the screen. So appreciate all of you guys. Just remember, we go live Monday through Friday, 1pm Eastern Standard Time. YouTube, Facebook, Instagram and X. And if you haven't subscribed to the channel for whatever reason, please do subscribe. But tonight on the Counterculture Inc. Network, we have counterculture live at 8 o' clock with me. I'll figure out the theme here in about an hour. Also a lot of audience participation. So later.

[Mike]

Get in there,

[Tyler]

Noah. I'll Sign up. Yeah, man. The, the. These guys are all in the discord. Discord's completely free. There's. It's like the discord. Then you, if you want to know more, you move up to Patreon. If you want to be part of the OG Council, which is where we essentially use it as a board of advisors. Anytime we kind of make a business decision, we hit these guys up, we have a meeting, a non recorded meeting. Get their, get their, their take on it. It's always good to have a controlled group of people that will tell you straight up if something sucks or it's a bad idea. I'm usually the ones with good ideas. Mike does not have the best ones, but sometimes he contributes. Eliminate billionaires. So millionaires are now.

[Mike]

Then we eliminate millionaires.

[Tyler]

Then we. And I didn't know this. I didn't know he was talking about like killing them because my innocent brain was like, how would this logically work? Work? You put sanctions on people. They would move their money around. They would still be billionaires. They would just move it around. And he was like, well, we have Mario. I'm like, oh, you're talking about killing people.

[Mike]

Okay, can't do that.

[Tyler]

No, I can't do that. Thanks Dominic, for your coming on today. Great debate. As you can probably tell by the comments that I think you won. They called it a burial, not a debate. Later. Great show, dudes. I know Mike is starving.

[Mike]

See, when it flows like that, I mean I'm in it. Plus I have my crave creatine. I was telling everybody while they're fighting over the bread and milk that if you take.

[Tyler]

I don't think I worry about that.

[Mike]

You get creatine, you'll get even your bread milk goes a little bit longer because you're gonna grow muscle.

[Tyler]

I still haven't talked to Ryan about having a show on the network. I think that's that, that right there. If you guys are wondering how, why, why go to the app? Why be part of the OG Council, which is what the app is. That will probably be a scheduled meeting with everybody to either come on a non recorded. You come on virtually. We have a panel. You can be in the comments. You can just be audio if you want. That is something where we would pull everybody to see is it a good business idea Idea. Whether you hate it or you hate him, business wise, we can trust these guys. The OG Council, they want to see the, the broadcast grow. And they would be very honest. Like even though I hate this guy, it's a good business.

[Mike]

To me it makes sense because if you, I know if you bring his audience to a show, it's by nature

[Tyler]

it makes sense to me because it's counterculture free speech. You can say whatever the you want. But we've also done things where were like, yeah, people resonate with this, right It. And then group think happens and we just get slaughtered and so edit. You know, it's just good to, to pull the guys and you know, we're, we're, we're moving so fast like this thinking about the business that sometimes we don't slow down and think about anything. So anyways, that's it for the day, guys. Tonight at the on the Counterculture Inc. Network on YouTube, the YouTube channel We Are the Counterculture Inc. YouTube channel will be Counterculture Live. Tonight at 8pm Eli will be back from hanging out with the grandparents. So I have a producer.

[Mike]

Beautiful.

[Tyler]

Tomorrow's Casual Friday, 1pm Eastern Standard Time.

[Mike]

Super chat.

[Tyler]

Oh six. I'm in the process. I need a couple more days. There's a lot of configuring.

[Mike]

We'll have another meeting about it.

[Tyler]

No, we're not. No. That was awful. You weren't there. That the dumbest idea ever. It's not against any one person. It was just. It's not a good idea to ask 30 people what their take is on something because it was, it was just nuts. But. All right, tomorrow, 1pm we'll see you. Jv team for life.