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- [00:01]
Brent Tucker
The first group is called 10th group as a psyop campaign to make the Russians believe that we had nine other units just like this one. That's why the first One wasn't called 1st Special Forces Group.
- [00:10]
Tyler
That's what people say about the SEALs. And I don't know if they stole that from SF or if the SEALs do the same thing.
- [00:15]
Brent Tucker
Anything good the seals do, they stole from sf. You can just. You can just assume that right off the bat.
- [00:23]
Tyler
Hold on, we're not recording. Do you want to buy a shirt to support military people want to see their sausage get made?
- [00:31]
Brent Tucker
An appropriate level of inappropriateness. Something happens in my family tonight. The adult forces isn't coming to rescue my. My family. My kids. Like it is. First responders that are. That are going to save my family.
- [00:42]
Tyler
They want the culture to be down. They want people to not want to be cops. And the people that do want to be cops are now walking into the job scared to do the job.
- [00:58]
Brent Tucker
I'm gonna try to act like it didn't happen, although we. We all know it did.
- [01:01]
Tyler
JV team for life. It's weird filming during the day. I haven't. The only thing I've done feel like a day walker. I haven't done anything yet. Really.
- [01:10]
Brent Tucker
Yeah, I know. I haven't done anything yet. Except get late to the podcast when you were like, I'm five minutes late. I was like, I don't want to. I was like, I'm good because I'm three minutes late. We wrote a tight ship here. Oh, no. Oh, that almost took off everything.
- [01:33]
Tyler
Okay, I'm just gonna ask. I've. You've. I asked once and you kind of laughed. Are those real?
- [01:40]
Brent Tucker
Yes, those are real. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're. No, I'm just kidding. They're from Arizona. Yeah. The first time I put them out there in the comment section was like, oh, look at them flexing with the quads.
- [01:52]
Tyler
Yeah.
- [01:53]
Brent Tucker
I can't remember who showed. I bought them because we were going to a. An event with cigars, and I was. I wanted to do like a display with the Delta Limited cigars. And so we were. We were getting, you know, helmets, nods, some other things just for, like, the display at the show. And. And that's. That's where I. That's where I got them from, like Amazon. 40 bucks replicas. But they do. And there's a bunch of guys at the show that pick them up. Yeah. And try to put them on. And I'm like, well, one, you're kind of lucky. They're they're fake, but. Yeah, but if they're real, why would you. Why would you pick up someone else's $40,000 nods and just put them on your face?
- [02:34]
Tyler
They'll ask you $40,000 nods make grown men turn into children. Don't touch that.
- [02:39]
Brent Tucker
They do. I think they've come down in price. I think you can get some non military standard ones, like 20 grand now. But that's still. That's a car. I mean, that's a car that you're wear. That you're wearing on your face.
- [02:54]
Tyler
Yeah. Did you. When's the first time you got the coolest set of night vision? When you were like. Yeah.
- [02:59]
Brent Tucker
Oh, it was, it was those for sure. I think I got them. I can. I think I had them the whole time I was at the unit. I think they had just come out when I got to the unit, so I think I had quads the whole time I was at the unit.
- [03:11]
Tyler
Not a Green Beret thing.
- [03:12]
Brent Tucker
No, no, I don't.
- [03:15]
Tyler
At that time.
- [03:16]
Brent Tucker
Yeah. Some Green Berets might have it by now, but to be honest, I, I doubt it. They're so expensive. It's, it's, it's really. I think. I, I don't know. I'm sure the comment section will tell us. Yeah. I don't know if I've seen people outside of tier one units with quads still to this day.
- [03:35]
Tyler
Man. What is it? Okay, again, we're learning. What do quads do? I'll ask for all you guys that don't want to ask.
- [03:40]
Brent Tucker
Oh, yeah, that. You know, that. That is a good question. You know, so of course, when, when you look through regular dual tubes. Yeah, Yeah. I went through the whole, the whole progression of nods from Sing. Well, Seven Deltas, which were dual to your eyes, but, but a monocular coming out. And those sucked because you couldn't. You could. You know, it's like living through one toilet paper roll. And then those were seven Deltas when I first got. And then the, the PVS 14s came out and they were the, the true monocular. Now, those were great because you still had a night vision eye and you had a, you know, an eye that you could see in the dark and you were used to where you're, where you're at. And then the duels came out. Everyone thought, you know, nothing's cooler than that. Like duels. Yeah. And it was cool because it doubled up. Now you can see twice as much and you're not bumping into as many things. And then when the quads Came out. So not only do they. The. The second. Well, we'll call them the third and fourth tube. Not. They don't just look forward. They look sideways. And so you get peripherals. Yeah, it's all you almost get. So peripherals, you know, obviously all the way out to here. I can still see my hands, but you get. You get at least this much.
- [05:03]
Tyler
So is it two things split two.
- [05:05]
Brent Tucker
Ways each, so both of them come into one screen? And so it's. So it's like a really wide screen for your left and right eye. And I'm telling you once. I mean, when you're running through a house at night and you can only see this far, you know, you're bumping in the walls. You're bumping into teammates like you. You know, there's open doors you might miss. And so to keep from doing that, you're constantly swinging your head left and right so you know what's around you. And with Panos, you. I mean, it's the closest thing, really, to feeling like, you know, seeing at night with. With your own eyes, because you can see so much more.
- [05:40]
Tyler
Whoa.
- [05:41]
Brent Tucker
Yeah, it's. It was a game changer. And the few times I didn't wear them, I used some. Some night vision that had some thermal overlays to them, so it was night vision. And I could see the outline of heat signatures. I'd use those every now and again, but every time I did, I was like, it's not. I'd rather be able to see. Yeah, yeah, I got. Yeah, I'd rather be able to see the other ones. And you. If. If I wore dual tubes, usually it might be for, like, a jump, you know, because in a halo jump, once. Once those risers come up, now you have that. That wide night vision. That's. That's hitting. That's hitting your risers. And so sometimes it's easier to fly without them. But even with that, I usually still even jumped with. With Panos. I just. I just loved them. Loved them so much, man. Yeah, they were a game changer. They really were. They were. I think. I think they were. I think they were one of the biggest leaps in technology and special operations.
- [06:45]
Tyler
How. How long were they in operations before we, as civilians knew about them?
- [06:50]
Brent Tucker
I will. Not long. And this is my guess, and this is why. I tell you why not long. Because members of SEAL Team 6 did some consulting for a video game, Call of Duty. And that video game had some really oddly. Oddly very specific gear in it. Everyone's like, what is that? Um, so that's, that's. I actually, that's a half joke, but I actually kind of believe that's. That's one of the things that kind of, you know, let it, let it out there that, you know, this. We, we were using that type of equipment. So, yeah, we. If it wasn't for that, I, it have been a long time really since, since the public would have known that. And I'd say. I remember the first time I saw him, which was right before that video game. I was like, what are these guys wearing? I. I mean, if they look normal now, but you look like a fruit fly. You look like, what is, what is all that on that dude's face? So weird looking eyeballs is this guy. Yeah.
- [07:52]
Tyler
Can you imagine being in a third world country and seeing that in your house? You're like, is, are these aliens?
- [07:56]
Brent Tucker
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You have to think about that. That's got to cross their mind. I mean, it is, it is. In fact, until, until you just brought that up, I forgot how goofy they looked like the first time or just how, how odd now they look. Yeah, now they look. Yeah, yeah. And now, and now, now they're the standard.
- [08:15]
Tyler
Well, I totally forgot to do the intro because I was into that story. So. Welcome back to the Anti Hero podcast. Part Delta Force, part street cop, all truth. I'm Tyler, owner of Counterculture, Inc. Go to countercultureincthreads.com use promo code ANTIHERO and get 15 off all of our merch. All of refractive wolf apparels on there, hat stickers, flags, ranger panties. We're gonna have some new ranger panties up here shortly. Team room flags, any. We got it. Counterculturing threads.com promo code antihero.
- [08:47]
Brent Tucker
And I'm Brent Tucker, owner of First Responder Coffee Company and First Responder Cigar Company. Use FRCC 15. That's FRCC 15. To get 15% off the world's best coffee and cigars.
- [09:01]
Tyler
And of course, this episode is brought to you by HPTRT Human performance. Go to HPTRT.com use promo code HERO and get 20% off your order. Not just your initial order, but every single month after that, you get 20% off. Testosterone's big in. In everything we do. Every person we associate with essentially takes testosterone. As a man, you need testosterone. But they also offer peptides, mental health counseling, weight loss programs, weight loss supplements. They. They offer everything to be healthy and to be optimal. So go to hptrt.com use promo code HERO and get 20 off your order.
- [09:43]
Brent Tucker
It's gotten to A point. I feel like if, if you don't take testosterone, I don't know if we can be friends.
- [09:49]
Tyler
Yeah. How are you?
- [09:53]
Brent Tucker
Because I don't have a lot of 20 year old friends. You know, that would be, that'd be weird. So why would I.
- [09:59]
Tyler
You know, you almost assume that people are as opposed to not. It's kind of like 20 years ago you could have been friends with a different Democrat, but now you're like, I don't know if I knock. It's a different. It's a difference between opposing viewpoints. Now it's a, it's a lifestyle ideology.
- [10:14]
Brent Tucker
Yeah, it, it almost is. That's, it's, that's. It's kind of a weird statement to make. But it's not wrong. But it's not wrong. The. Don't forget about our Thursday Night Live squadcast episodes. Every Thursday night, 8pm to 10pm Eastern Standard Time. That one's for the boys. It's definitely a change of pace from our recorded episodes. If you have not seen them, please go check it out. You'll really enjoy them. And our Patreon. Please subscribe to our Patreon Help support this. This channel keeps the lights on, keeps the rent paid, keeps producers happy, keeps the pizza coming in. On Thursday nights. You get access behind the scenes access, access to. To the shows. What's coming up. Input on that. Direct messaging to me and Tyler, special discounts to all of our sponsors and vendors that you won't get anywhere else. So please check out our Patreon and consider supporting us.
- [11:12]
Tyler
Are you ready for 40 more questions like that Pano question?
- [11:15]
Brent Tucker
I am.
- [11:15]
Tyler
This is my free chance. No judgment.
- [11:18]
Brent Tucker
I haven't done one of these in a while. I really enjoyed the last one. You did, and so did the viewers. We're back to a history episode. Yes, they take so much work, but they're so much fun. Like they really are.
- [11:30]
Tyler
I'm surprised we haven't done this one.
- [11:33]
Brent Tucker
Yeah, I know. We, you know, we were talking about what episode should we do. I kind of hit the easy button with this. But even with some of these things, I was like, man, I. Some of. I knew. I'll tell you this, you know, Marines are really into their. Their history, which, which they should be like, I love that. The Green Berets are very similar. Like the. I, I got taught a lot of this. And the history of the Green Berets is that the regiment's proud of. And you're about to find out that they absolutely should be. Yeah. These are things I Wouldn't say every Green Beret knows to this extent, but. But they know. They know most of this. They may have forgotten it. They have to. Knew it at one time. They knew it at one point. So, yeah. This episode is the history of the Green Berets. A look inside Special Forces, where they came from and a little bit of where they are now. And they really tie together in some unique ways. We'll start out with one fun fact right off the bat. I feel like you may know this one, but it irritates me when. When the news does this. Did you know the term Special Forces only refers to the Green Berets?
- [12:40]
Tyler
Yes, but they, they. It's. It's kind of like someone says, like, oh, you need a Kleenex. Like, no, I need a tissue.
- [12:45]
Brent Tucker
Right.
- [12:45]
Tyler
I need Special Operations.
- [12:47]
Brent Tucker
Yeah, the news will do that. You know, just. I won't call civilians will do that and be like, oh, were you, you know, were you in the Navy? Were you Special Forces? You know, like referring to seals. They don't know what they don't know. But a SEAL would never call themselves Special Forces. A Ranger would never call themselves Special Forces. The term Special Forces is uniquely designated to the Army Green Berets, so we'll start off with that. The term Special Forces only applies to the US Army Special Forces, better known for their unique headgear, the Green Beret. The Green Berets officially became a unit in 1952, founded by Colonel Aaron Bank. The 1st Special Forces Group was actually 10th Special Forces Group. But before we get into that, let's see who Aaron bank was. Colonel bank was part of the OSS in World War II. The Office of Strategic Services. It was actually more of an intel agency with an action arm that could conduct sabotage, support resistant movements, and conduct psychological warfare. The OSS was headed up by Wild Bill Donovan, who later became the father of American intelligence, who was a strong influence on what became known as the CIA. And the first CIA Director was Alan Dulles, who was also an OSS veteran. So the OSS is really, really important in. In our military and intelligence heritage because a one organization literally brought us the CIA and the Green Berets. And I think that's. I think that's another reason why the Green Berets, we'll talk about here in a little bit. They're very intel heavy.
- [14:27]
Tyler
I was gonna say they. I see.
- [14:28]
Brent Tucker
They collect their own intelligence. They have level three intel collectors, level two intel collectors. They're very intel heavy of gathering their own intelligence, drumming up their own intel packets. And I really think that has to do with the OSS being, being their origins.
- [14:45]
Tyler
Do you, is it. Does the CIA like to utilize special forces because of that? You know, they're intel, you know, they're not just direct action.
- [14:55]
Brent Tucker
They're so there are like. We'll call them the. I won't go into too much detail honestly, just because it's boring, it's a lot of legal jargon, but we'll just. Level 3 Human or Human intelligence collectors that, that Green Berets can be. It's really, it's really one of the, one of the highest cert search you can have for being an intelligence collector. And so level three Green Berets, not all of them by any means, but they do go work while they're still Green Berets, you know with and for the CIA. So there's still absolutely a close relationship there. But you know, but the CIA still for the most part that they don't really play well with others. They'll accept a few into the mix but they don't, they don't really play well with other. Even though we, we, we came from the same place. The oss. The first director, like I said was Alan Dulles who was an OSS veteran. And I thought for a second I was like is that where Dulles Airport came from? Because his last name is Dulles. His brother was John Foster Dulles who was a Secretary of State. That's who the Dulles Airport is named after. But even the Dulles Airport has, has ties to the OSS. The CIA was founded in 1947 and they kept the intelligence and COVID side of the OSS and the Special forces took the role of guerrilla warfare and direct action. Aaron bank was a blueprint for Special Forces. A hard nosed New York native that was fluent in German and French which would be crucial for his OSS work. Before joining the military, he traveled Europe further giving him insight into the culture he would have to eventually blend in with. He joined the OSS in 1943 and worked on Jedburgh teams. Jedburgh teams were small three man teams that parachuted into Nazi occupied France and armed and trained resistant elements behind enemy lines conducting quick strike and sabotage missions that were hard to defend and wreaked havoc on the Germans physically and mentally. Jedburgh teams were SF guys know about that in our lineage and they know about Jedburgh teams. Jedburgh teams, that could be a whole episode. Oh, it's crazy. So yeah, they did just that. Three man teams jumping behind enemy lines. When Germany had occupied all of France and they had. So the OSS intel arm would basically make, make connections with resistance elements and say hey, you guys want to resist? Like yeah, we'd love to, but we can't. And they're like, but what if we brought in like these three commandos full full of ammo, food, medicine and training? Then would you resist? Like, well yeah, we'd probably resist then. And so that's, that's a oversimplification. That's essentially how Jedburgh teams went. And they would just jump in in the middle of the night, link up with their resistance elements, do just that, train them, arm them, plan missions, do sabotage.
- [18:13]
Tyler
That kind of became like the starting point for like how like a, even a 12 man SF team is not looking for contact.
- [18:20]
Brent Tucker
It really is. And these, this civilian population would essentially just go to work during the day, like, you know, like, like always, nothing out of the ordinary. And they sneak out of their house in the middle of night, link, link up with their, their Jedburgh team and be like, all right, what's the mission tonight? Go wreak havoc. And then, and then hopefully, you know, go back to, go back to their house and go to sleep and pretend like nothing happened. When wind of the Jedburgh teams hit the Nazis, when they started realizing, hey, like what is going on here? Like we are getting hit all over the place. They, they initially thought it was a much larger enemy force in, in their, in their own backyard. And when they eventually, because the Nazis were good, they were good with intelligence. They, they were not dumb. When they figured this out. Jedburgh's had a price on their head. I mean there's, okay there was, it was directly from Hitler. It was ordered that Jedburgh's were not to be captured. They were to be killed on the spot, executed immediately.
- [19:26]
Tyler
How is, but that's, to me, that's not smart. Like why wouldn't you want. I mean I'm sure they were trained in not giving information, but I would want them alive.
- [19:36]
Brent Tucker
I think, I think he was just trying to send a message, you know, hey, we're going to send a message, you know, on, and make them think twice. But let's be honest, if it's the type of guy that's willing to work in a three man team and jump behind, you know, enemy lines, he's accepted his fate. You know, the, the getting, you know, getting killed honestly is something he's already accepted. So that's not going to deter, you know, any of those guys. Yeah, they were, they were, they were a force to be reckoned with. With, with within that JV team for life.
- [20:08]
Tyler
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- [22:47]
Brent Tucker
JV Team for Life bank was also assigned towards the end of World War II to Operation Iron Cross. You may have have at least heard of that. That was where we took German POWs that were sympathetic, sympathetic to, to our cause. And we essentially trained them to infiltrate the hierarchy of Nazi Germany. And they were going to get us close enough to Hitler so we could kill Hitler. And so that was.
- [23:15]
Tyler
Do you think when we do that as a government or as an intelligence agency, the OSS, they knew like 2% of these guys are going to cross us once they get like, do you think they plan for that or do you think they really like all of.
- [23:29]
Brent Tucker
Them were like I from.
- [23:32]
Tyler
How do you vet that?
- [23:34]
Brent Tucker
You can never truly vet it. I've worked with, not at such a high level like you're taking out a leader of a country, but I've worked in the LTEL community as well and dealing with essentially double agents. You're really looking for motive. I mean what's, that's, that's what you always like you're, you know, they would have had hundreds of candidates that they could have picked from. And so they're always looking for how they act, what their story is, what's their backstory. Like why were they forced to, you know, to join, you know, the Nazi army. Do they, do they ethically and morally agree with it? And you're finding this out way before you're picking them for this, for this mission. So that way and still it's never a guarantee. But if you can get the right person motivated, that doesn't align up, you know, morally. And they're looking at life in jail anyway. Chance of giving that guy at least a second chance at, at, at life really of clearing his name, I think is a good, is a good starter of, of how to, how to pick the right people.
- [24:49]
Tyler
I know for a fact there's going to be requests for a Nazi party like Hitler, like what could have been historical episode. Like I love how close we got. How many different plans there were and it just went down the way it went down.
- [25:05]
Brent Tucker
But God, there are so many close calls that Germany could. I don't think people understand how close Germany was to take over the world. And that is. I don't know if we want to use the word cool.
- [25:21]
Tyler
Interesting.
- [25:21]
Brent Tucker
Interesting. Thank you. Gosh, that, that, that it's such an interesting thing to think about and talk about. It's like what would, what do you think the world would look like today, 80 years later had Germany won? Like it's, it's crazy to think about. Like it really is.
- [25:39]
Tyler
I think there's a show on Amazon about that and like life today.
- [25:44]
Brent Tucker
But yeah, someone told me about that. I haven't watched it, but I need to be honest with you because I'd love to see what their take is on it. But that's the other cool thing. You could have about 17 different takes and all of them, and all of them are possibilities. It could have gone absolutely horrible. Did it? It could have. Maybe. It could have gone. Okay. I mean not for, not for the Jews.
- [26:08]
Tyler
Yeah.
- [26:08]
Brent Tucker
But you know, I don't mean to say it as a joke, but I mean that's, I mean it's. Anyway, it's, it's definitely a crazy, a crazy topic to think about. I also think was crazy about that is one man completely ruined a last name. I don't know if anyone's last name has been Hitler in the last 80 years. That last name just doesn't exist anymore.
- [26:28]
Tyler
If not, they changed it.
- [26:30]
Brent Tucker
And that's crazy. There's. There's a bunch of serial killers with last names that you can probably still find and you know, and in the, in the white pages. How's that for an old reference? Anyway, even though they trained up and they had that, that operation, Operation Iron Cross in the, in the books it never launched. But it further showed the knack for high risk missions that bank was willing to take on. Now there was another special Operation wing in World War II, the first Special Service Force. It was made of Americans and Canadians and it gets an honorable mention for sure. If you look up their, their badge, their, their patch, it's a, it's an arrowhead and at the very top of it it says USA across going left to right and it says Canada going, going down. It was a, it was a unit made main. Only of American and Canadians. But they got. They're better known as the Delves Brigade.
- [27:33]
Tyler
Okay.
- [27:34]
Brent Tucker
And I listened to a podcast on the Devil's Brigade. It was like a four episode series. A Couple years ago. Absolutely enthralling. They essentially got like their job. They did a lot of different things, but they essentially had commandos working for him, including nuclear scientists working for them. And they were the, the element. It was a race. It was a race to the atom bomb. I mean that's what it was. And we knew that there had. That you needed one very specific thing to make an atom bomb, and that was what's called heavy water. Heavy water is just like H2O but it has an extra. Has an extra element to it that makes it heavy water. And so they found out the only places in the world that that manufactured it. And they, they did their, their best to try to find out like where those shipments were going. They did, they did some really cool things to disrupt the, the distribution of heavy water to, to slow down the Nazis getting hands on what it took to make an atom bomb. The Devil's Brigade is podcast worthy for sure.
- [28:56]
Tyler
Okay.
- [28:57]
Brent Tucker
They, they did, they did things that. That was just movie worthy. I mean you're talking about small houses that were like small warehouses out in the middle of nowhere that were storing this heavy water to try to make sure no one finds it. They find it. They parachute in and just murder everyone in there and you know, and empty out the. Oh yeah, they, they did. They did some. Just small teams doing movie like stuff. So the first Special Force. First Special Service Force absolutely gets honorable mention because they played a huge role in developing tactics, molding future special operations. Like I said, the error head of their patch, as you probably know with the, the SSI for this for Special Forces. Or do you remember what SSI stands for? No shoulder sleeve insignia. It for real? Yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah, your shoulder sleeve insignia. That's. That's. That's your unit patch. It's your ssi.
- [30:02]
Tyler
Okay.
- [30:03]
Brent Tucker
It, you know, the Special Forces has an arrowhead on it.
- [30:06]
Tyler
Yeah.
- [30:06]
Brent Tucker
But we actually, Even though Aaron bank was from the oss, we actually. The origin of that arrowhead being on our is, is from the 1st Special Service Force.
- [30:16]
Tyler
Okay.
- [30:20]
Brent Tucker
Speaking of that, the Special Forces shoulder patch was introduced. So we said the Green Berets came out in 1952 and it took three years. 1955, Captain John Fry submitted what is now the current SSI and was subsequently approved by the Army. It got its, it got its design from the. The error from the 1st Special Service Force. A knife and the three lightning bolts, which is. And the airborne tab on top. The standard SF patch that everyone knows today. So the arrowhead represents swift and silent way American Indians arrows traveled. The knife is. Some people think it's a. I got a V42 or V22 dagger. It's not. It is a. And I'm gonna screw this name up. It's a fair Baron Sykes knife. It was carried by British commandos and commando units in World War II, which represents unconventional combat. And the three lightning bolts. That one I feel like is fairly common knowledge. Do you remember what the three lightning bolts stand for by chance in the SF patch? So the seals were not the first one to be sea, air and land.
- [31:43]
Tyler
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [31:44]
Brent Tucker
The three lightning bolts stand for the three means of infiltration that Green Berets can come in by sea, land, air or land.
- [31:51]
Tyler
I don't think anybody would really take that away unless they were told that three light mold something cool. Don't know.
- [31:57]
Brent Tucker
Yeah, yeah. The.
- [32:02]
Tyler
Did Congress have anything to do with the formation of sf?
- [32:06]
Brent Tucker
No, not with the formation of. Of sf, but we'll get to here in a second. The President United States had a lot of, had a, had a lot of sway and in the development of the Green Berets. But even with the connection to 1st Special Service Forces, the official standing of the OSS being the SF lineage is clear with Aaron bank being from the SS OSS and starting the 1st Special Forces Group, which is called 10th Special Forces Group. First, the 10 Special Forces Group was originally out of Bragg. They're currently out of Fort Carson, Colorado. But the very first unit of 10th group was out of Fort Bragg. And the unit was forward deployed to a place called Bad Tolls, Germany to be closer to our potential next enemy, the Soviet Union. And that's crazy. We're only talking about the early to mid-50s here. We just got out of World War II. One of our biggest allies was the Russians.
- [33:19]
Tyler
By default, though, the common enemy.
- [33:21]
Brent Tucker
Right is right. Yeah. And in less than a decade, we're already positioning to, to fight them. But General. Oh gosh, General Patton knew this. He knew this in World War II. Really?
- [33:38]
Tyler
That's never going to be a problem.
- [33:39]
Brent Tucker
Yeah. General Patton. It's a little bit of a, of a bold statement to make. But if you understand who General Patton was and what he means by this, I get it. General Patton really respected the Nazis. They were a well trained force. They were, they were organized. They. And I know people are going to argue by this. They essentially they more times than not on the battlefield, like honor and, and the unwritten rules of battle.
- [34:20]
Tyler
They honored that.
- [34:21]
Brent Tucker
They honored that. Yes, yes, the SS did horrible things and yes, you can talk about, you know, the Jews wasn't very honorable in battle. But from what he saw with the 3rd army fighting a conventional war against those guys, he saw a force that was well organized, well trained, and, and he respected that. He hated the Russians. He thought the Russians were just savages. And that's, and the Russians were, you know, the Russians raped, pillaged, murdered through history, right. On a large uncontrolled scale. And he really disliked that about the Russians. So when the end of the war happened, Patton, I don't want to get too much into War two history because it's Green Beret history, but we'll, so I'll save that for another time. But Patton essentially said this, hey, this is what we need to do to Eisenhower. We need to stay here, keep the armies together because we're here, and just turn east and move over to Russia and just go ahead and take care of her next problem. That is literally what he said. And, and he was absolutely right. He was absolutely right because none. Not less than 10 years later, there's the Green Berets positioning themselves in Europe to, to, to, to fight off a Russian, a Soviet union invasion. The first group is called 10th group as a psyop campaign to make the Russians believe that we had nine other units that, just like this one. That's why the first one wasn't called First Special Forces.
- [35:55]
Tyler
That's what people say about the SEALs. And I don't know if they stole that from SF or if the SEALs are the same thing.
- [36:01]
Brent Tucker
Anything good the SEALs do, they stole from SF. You can just, you can just assume that right off the bat. The second special forces group was actually called the 70, 77th group, which eventually became seventh group and then fifth group and, and then third group was a combination of them. But we'll, we'll get into, into the different groups here in a little bit. The concept of these, of this group was very similar to OSS teams, just like you'd already mentioned. But the teams grew to 12 man teams. The early teams were made up of OSS veterans and foreign born World War II veterans. That was just like the OSS. It was language and being able to immerse into seamlessly into another culture was obviously what kept them alive during those Jedburgh missions. And it was something they, they took very serious and carried with them. It's why in Special Operations the Green Berets are the only ones that every Green Beret goes and learns a foreign language to this day. Okay, foreign language is a heavy emphasis and carried over to this day the Early Special Forces members would commonly work with other special units from various European countries, notably British commandos that also wore berets and often the color green. They adopted this headgear to blend in and form. And form camaraderie. And they started to make their way back to team rooms in Fort Bragg. They would wear the Green Beret in and around their building. And base commanders tried to crack down on this blatant disregard for uniform. Could. Again, it's hard to imagine in this day because everyone wears a beret. Could you imagine a general seeing an American wearing a European headgear in an American uniform?
- [37:56]
Tyler
Oh, imagine the sergeant majors.
- [37:57]
Brent Tucker
They probably lose their mind. It was such a bold maneuver. Like, you know what?
- [38:03]
Tyler
But. But the. But their chain of command approved it. So it's just. It was just like, I don't like this, but there's nothing I do about it.
- [38:09]
Brent Tucker
It was. When I say they approved it, they allowed it, but they couldn't approve it. You know, it was not an approved headgear in the United States military. It was. It was really a blatant rebellion for the regard of. Of. Of. Of the. Of the American of conventional uniform. Re. And I'm sure it stuck out like a sore thumb. Like, who are those guys wearing those pancakes on their heads? Like, that's got to be a crazy look. Yeah, the. The beret was very un American at the time. But the headgear rebellion continued until one day in 1961, a supporter of Special Forces named John F. Kennedy came to visit. And this is a. And I'll give credit where credit's due. A bold general by the name of General Yarborough met him with unauthorized headgear. The Green Beret. A general met the President of the United States with unauthorized headgear from a. From a European unit. That's a bold maneuver.
- [39:14]
Tyler
Yeah.
- [39:15]
Brent Tucker
We have so many yes men that fill our ranks these days. Could you imagine that ever happening? You know, these days, the visit went so well and the President was so impressed with the young unit and it's men he named the Green Beret. The official and authorized headgear of the US Army Special Forces. That's where he got it from. JFK loved it and was like. And loved us and was like, you know what? I'm gonna give you that.
- [39:38]
Tyler
So I got to see firsthand what that generation of Green Berets, the respect and high regard they hold JFK in. Because I messed up our last episode. Did you catch that?
- [39:52]
Brent Tucker
No.
- [39:53]
Tyler
So. Oh, it wasn't our last episode. It was one before that, where we had the gentleman from Mac V. Sog.
- [39:59]
Brent Tucker
Okay. And I remember us talking about jfk.
- [40:02]
Tyler
And he, he, he politely said like, hey, you know, like he didn't even say it. He was just putting off, like he respects JFK because we made a, we made a joke, but we made like a dark humor joke. We're like, probably not podcast worthy. Well, did you keep that in? I didn't see it when I was editing. Somehow missed it.
- [40:21]
Brent Tucker
It was such a dark joke.
- [40:22]
Tyler
Yeah. I was like, oh man. I remember because I didn't see it, but I remember thinking I didn't see it, which means I didn't take it out.
- [40:28]
Brent Tucker
Yeah. If you're wondering what the joke we're talking about is, you have to go watch the Mac V. SOG episode. And if you haven't speaking of the history of Green Berets, you better go watch that episode anyway.
- [40:38]
Tyler
Yeah, watch that. I'll put that one as the ending video for this.
- [40:41]
Brent Tucker
All right. This is what this is. This shows how much respect John F. Kennedy had for the Green Berets. He gave a speech shortly after his visit and authorized and authorizing it. He, he talked about this. When describing or referring to the Green Beret, he called it a symbol of excellence, a badge of courage, a mark of distinction in the fight for freedom. This mutual respect for each other is why the center for training for the Green Berets is called. And you were on Fort Bragg, so you probably just noticed. Swick.
- [41:22]
Tyler
Yes.
- [41:22]
Brent Tucker
Do you know its full name? You. It is United States Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare center and School.
- [41:31]
Tyler
Okay.
- [41:31]
Brent Tucker
That is the, the Special Warfare center, which they shorten it to swic. It's full name again is the US Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare center and School. That's, that's, that's, that's how much mutual respect.
- [41:44]
Tyler
That's when you let, when you let an entire essentially division of people wear the headgear they want, they're going to give you. They're going to get some respect.
- [41:58]
Brent Tucker
The Green Berets went on to show their necessity in Vietnam. Allowing 12 man teams to run A camps. There was over, at one point, there was over 100 A camps in Vietnam. And each a camp could act as essentially a hundred man force. So them together with their partners, they ran covert missions or threw back vsog. They pulled off one of the greatest hostage rescue raids ever, called the Sante Raid. The raid was so perfectly planned and executed that Delta Force itself would use it as the standard for planning and executing hostage rescue raids. Years later. Okay, that's another podcast worthy episode. It's a horrible ending as far as this. They didn't save a single hostage yet. It's described as the greatest hostage rescue mission America's ever pulled off. For this reason, they came back, they did a full mock up of the camp, and just for months, they just. They hit it and hit it and hit it and hit it and hit it. And then they went to contingencies. You know, they're like, okay, we can run. We can do this in our sleep. What if this happens? Can we, you know, can we. Can we shift and hit it like this? What if this happens? What if this bird goes down? What if they're there? What if they're over here? They just went through all the contingencies. And night of the contingencies did matter because one of the birds crash landed and they had to deal with that contingency. They went in, they had just moved the hostages either the day before or two days before their hit. If they had planned this for months, if they had just launched a little bit sooner, they would have rescued every single person there. Their. Their consolation prize was they killed every bad guy on the compound, including Russians, and no one was hurt.
- [44:14]
Tyler
I have a quick question about that. Kind of. And it's just something that all of us wonder. When intel has gathered a compound, like, okay, this is what we have, this is what we know. And so they want to do a hit. Who builds it? Obviously it's not like the contractors that you get off like, you know, Craigslist. Like, are these engineers that are. Are they subcontractors? I'm assuming they have the biggest clearance you can get. Like the actual guys that build, like the whole setup.
- [44:55]
Brent Tucker
Yeah. So usually combat engineers, okay, had. I had to double check something because I just said Russians and then, you know, that were killed, I was like, was it Russians or Chinese? The Sante Raiders, which I've met a few, Will. They will tell you to this day that they were either Russian or Chinese, but the official statement is that there were neither Russian or Chinese there. That the Sante Raiders just falsely believe that due to what. What the people look like. But the Sante radios would tell you, oh, yeah, there are Russians and Chinese there. We. We killed them both. But anyway, just had to make sure that was put out there. Yeah, Combat engineers are. Will usually get called upon to. To. To. To do those mockups, build it.
- [45:42]
Tyler
That's always impressed me.
- [45:43]
Brent Tucker
Yeah. Oh, for sure.
- [45:44]
Tyler
You know, being able to see from satellite imagery, this is the type of door that you're gonna and then. But if it's not this type of door, we got to build a couple to see, you know, JV team for life. And of course we got to give a shout out to our boys in 09 holsters. Custom built ruggedized duty gear. Made in the USA for cops by cops, a Leo and veteran owned small business. They do an upgraded solutions for duty gear including case for portable radios, body cameras, tourniquets and pretty much everything you need to carry on duty. So go to 09holsters.com and use promo code ANTIHERO10ZULU9. That's ANTIHERO10Z9 and get yourself 10% off your order. Are you tired of using your standard issue flashlight? I know you're still using it because I was still using mine. But I have good news. We've teamed up with Cloud Defensive. The best in the game when it comes to weapons mounted and handheld lights. Go to cloud defensive.com, put in promo code Anti Hero 15 and get 15% off your entire order. Cloud Defensive Pushing the boundaries and illumination.
- [46:55]
Brent Tucker
Revenge is an act of passion. Vengeance is an act of justice. Injuries are revenged. Crimes are avenged. Almost a century ago, big pharmaceutical companies re engineered medical school curriculum and faculty with one goal. Putting profit before progress. Anyone pushing back against the medical matrix they carefully crafted was threatened, silenced, censored, financially ruined or worse. They are the problem. We are the solution. Engage with weapons. You're clear to engage with weapons. See how far away easy is.
- [47:36]
Tyler
Okay. JV team for life.
- [47:43]
Brent Tucker
And the as Sante raiders are legendary because there's, you know, there's not a lot left. But the th. Those are the guys. Like if you're at a Green Beret function or you're in Robin Sage and one of your like lane, one of your like G chiefs was. Is a former Green Beret acting as a G chief. At the end they'll tell you like, hey, that guy was a Sante Raider. And then, and then all the Green Berets around will go, oh, like it's a big, it's a big deal. It's a big deal. See here and Vietnam now they were still a very small force. Almost 800 Green Berets would lose their life in the Vietnam war.
- [48:33]
Tyler
That's a lot. That's a lot for them being such.
- [48:36]
Brent Tucker
That's a lot. For the size of the Green Berets to lose almost a thousand guys, it just shows you. It just shows you what they did and where they. And where they put themselves.
- [48:49]
Tyler
Do you know now we learned a little bit about, like, the 1980s selection process from Almatos when he came on. But what. Do you know what the selection process was like back then?
- [48:59]
Brent Tucker
I tried to look at the history of selection process, and I could not find something that I was willing to put out in the podcast. I. I don't. I don't know. Besides the 800 Green Berets that gave their life, they earned over 4,000 Purple Hearts in the Vietnam War, over 400 Silver Stars, 93 DSCs, Distinguished Service Crosses, which is the second highest award, and a staggering 12 Green Berets won the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War. I mean, gosh, did they? There's a reason why. And we'll get into that here in a second. There's a reason why Green Berets earned, Earned their, their name and their reputation. The Vietnam War did it. Man, did they do some amazing things. Not only are there 12 medal of honor recipients, there was one that was actually nominated three times for the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War, and his name was Robert Howard. His other two. So he did get one Medal of Honor and the other two got. One got downgraded to a Distinguished Service Cross and the other got downgraded to a Silver Star. So one Green Beret in Vietnam won all three of the top awards. That's insane.
- [50:28]
Tyler
Yeah, he's probably got a lot of buildings named after him.
- [50:31]
Brent Tucker
Oh, he should. Gosh, he should. It said when he was getting his Medal of War, as Medal of Honor given to him in the White House, he said he was so nervous that his. He thought his knees were going to give out. And the President asked him, he goes, hey, are you okay, son? He goes, yeah, I'm sorry if you can tell I'm nervous, but I won't fall down or let you down. You know, something like that. And it's just crazy. These are the type of men America produced during that time frame. This guy got nominated for three Medals of Honor, and he's so nervous to accept it. He's so fearless in the face of combat that he'll do amazing things. And he's so humble to receive it from the President and from the President. I mean, where, where, where did we get these men from?
- [51:27]
Tyler
I think around after that time is where we divert.
- [51:29]
Brent Tucker
Yeah, I mean, I just. It's just crazy. So not only did, if you're wondering, just told you, green brays earned 12 medals of honor during the Vietnam War. That's compared to seven Medals of Honor won by the Navy seals. So we basically doubled Them up. Not a big deal. I'm not. I don't know who's counting. I am not.
- [51:56]
Tyler
Like we're gonna put it on a podcast.
- [51:59]
Brent Tucker
This type of willingness to face the enemy won the attention of the country and Hollywood with movies like John Wayne and the Green Berets earning the number one movie in America in the box office when it came out. Could you imagine that? Like, these days, movies do well and. And they. We still have an affinity for special operations movie. But that when that came out, it was hands down the most popular movie and in all of America. Not only that, the song the Battle of the Green Berets was the number one song in the country.
- [52:33]
Tyler
Really?
- [52:33]
Brent Tucker
In 1966, that one surprised me. I figured it probably would have squeaked onto the Billboard chart. It was number one.
- [52:43]
Tyler
I wouldn't even think that. I would think, like, in the military community. Absolutely. But to be like pop culture in.
- [52:50]
Brent Tucker
A time that Vietnam wasn't a popular war as well. In the mid-1970s, a green Bray by the name of Charlie Beckwith was causing a commotion about something called terrorism.
- [53:04]
Tyler
Okay.
- [53:05]
Brent Tucker
The DoD said we already had a counterterrorism called the Green Berets. Beckwith was adamant that was one of the things they did. And to do counterterrorism, right, you need a dedicated unit. And he was absolutely right about that. Special Forces created blue light teams as a stopgap while Beckwith was given a chance to stand up Delta. Have you ever heard of blue light teams?
- [53:30]
Tyler
I think through our conversations, I've heard them. I don't remember.
- [53:32]
Brent Tucker
Yeah, it's. They're not well known, like, in the. And common in common knowledge. But in Special Forces, they're. They're well known. But I would even. I would. I would press a lot of Green Berets and like, hey, what were the special counterterrorism teams, you know, stood up in the mid-70s to. To compete against Delta Force? To be like, I know we had them.
- [54:00]
Tyler
It was an episode with Kurt. I think we were talking about those.
- [54:03]
Brent Tucker
So they. They stood up. And I tried to find out why were they called blue light teams. No one really knows. There's some speculation to that. You know, one person, they're called blue light because it was a generic term that didn't really mean anything. So. So if anyone found out about them, they couldn't really be considered cool. Another said the way emergency lights are blue and spin, they were like an emergency unit. So, like, the blue light being an emergency would. Would and that. Yeah, I can buy both those actually. But they were a stopgap to be stood up. While Beckwith was given a chance to stand up Delta, ultimately, Blue Light was actually given a chance to compete for the title, but lost to Delta Force. It was one essentially graded event mission. They both gave him the same mission and said basically whoever does the best on this mission gets, gets the job. And I think that, I think that's tough, to be honest with you. There's so many variables. But Delta did so well during that test run. They were like, delta's got the job. But every now and again, as a Green Beret, I think about this. That's right. Just like, what about World War II? Yeah, I wonder. It only takes sometimes one small thing for a young Delta guy to do to screw up the, you know, the whole mission. And if one graded mission had gone differently, Delta would have disbanded and our premier special missions unit would have been made up entirely of Green Berets.
- [55:42]
Tyler
That's crazy to think about.
- [55:43]
Brent Tucker
And we. You never even. You would have never even it had been. They'd have been what blue light is. They'd have been a note in a, in a podcast about, hey, did you know the blue light, you know, almost could have been called Delta Force like no one would have ever known the term. The 80s brought about some scarce known and almost ghost like teams that were really hard to, hard to pin down. Big wars had gone away, smaller conflicts and training for smaller conflicts became the norm. I know there are teams that were trained to carry tactical nukes that were man portable. These teams would be, would train to halo in and hope to walk out far and fast enough to escape the fallout.
- [56:33]
Tyler
Which probably aren't good chances.
- [56:35]
Brent Tucker
Probably aren't good chances. I actually know one of the guys that did the job. Yeah, his name's Norm Hooten. He's a former Green Beret and Delta Force operator. You may know him from Blackhawk Down. Why you do it. Hoot. Yeah, that's Norm Hooten. In fact, just saw him in Atlanta at the NRA convention. I've been trying to talk him into coming onto a podcast and he says, he goes, hey, he's very hesitant about doing podcasts, which is kind of crazy because there's a movie that, well, it's a fictional movie, but it's pretty close to it. But he's real protective of what he says, you know, about the unit. I said, norm, I don't, I don't need you to come on and even talk about the unit. Let's talk about the old days of sf. You know, we'll introduce you as, because it's no secret, like we'll introduce you as, you know, you know, a Delta Force Blackhawk down survivor.
- [57:29]
Tyler
But I almost said alumni, but alumni.
- [57:31]
Brent Tucker
Yeah, sure. Neither one, neither one feels right. I can't think of the right word and say. But hey, if you want to know more about that, there's the History Channel just put out a three episode special on it. Let's talk about what you don't know about Norm Hooten.
- [57:42]
Tyler
Yeah, exactly. So that would, everybody would watch that.
- [57:45]
Brent Tucker
Yeah, so I think that's, I think that's got him. I think, okay, he's going to come and talk about those things. And the 80s also brought around the, the Contra controversy where Contra rebels, we, we backed them and were covert, covertly had them running missions to overthrow the government of Nicaragua. Between the history of the Green Berets and the mystery of, the mystery of their operations of the 80s brought about more movie notoriety like Rambo, who was a Green Beret, obviously and several mentions in Arnold Schwarzenegger movies like Commando and Predator.
- [58:28]
Tyler
Yeah, they never say it, but you.
- [58:29]
Brent Tucker
Can they in Predator when they're, when they first start going around the jungle, do you remember they run across some guys hanging in a tree, skinned alive and Arnold Schwarzenegger stops and goes, I know these men, they're all Green Berets from Fort Bragg. He mentions Green Berets being, being in, in the jungle of, of South America and that. And Commando, one of the bad guys was a Green Beret. He was like this Green Beret is about to beat your ass. And he puts out the cheesy movie line back that says I eat Green Berets for breakfast. So Green Berets continued to be a well known and, I don't know, iconic figure of badassery. The Green Brays became their own branch in 1987. Do you know what I mean when I say that? Their own branch? I, I, the only reason why I know this is because this is an sf. I don't say controversy, but point of contention. Yeah, we talked about it a little bit with the back Vsau guy. Well, he didn't have his, his own mos. He had an identifier. So prior to 1987 the Green Berets were not an mos. After 87, now they're an 18 series mos which means when you have your own mos you control your own, your own promotions. Essentially when you're your own branch, you have to have your own pldc, your own B knock your Own a knock. Yeah, yeah. You have to have your own board. Yeah. You have to promote and it's, it's a good thing because you can, you, you're in charge of your own people at this rate.
- [60:20]
Tyler
You don't have big armies saying you have to do this for your little section.
- [60:23]
Brent Tucker
Which means before that if you came from the infantry and so when you wear your class A's or an officer wears his branch on his collar, he would have still maintained whatever branch he came from because there was no Crossed Arrows branch. Well, the bad thing about that is, and it's really officer related, when they would leave their branch, which they are, they're technically still owned by their branch, but they're going to work for another community and they're leaving their branch, they would get, they would get ostracized and they would get punished for their original branch from, from their branch. It was almost career suicide. But the good thing about that was the only people that, the only people that were coming over to do the job weren't career minded guys. They were guys that love to do the job and wanted to work with the best and love the mission. I love that and I loved it too. And it is, it is a really, a well known fact that a little bit of, I don't say the downfall the Green Berets because the Green Rays went on. We'll talk about it when I'll do amazing things in the gwat. But a major culture shift in the Green Berets happened when they became their own branch and careerism started creeping in. Now officers can come here and they can have their own full career without, without fear of punishment. So it's bittersweet. It, it really is. It really is bittersweet. And I talked about this already, but it's true. A lot of the older Green Berets believe that this was a downturn for the brotherhood as career driven officers could now come over and thrive and career and careerism overtook what was best. Nevertheless, the Green Berets rose back to prominence during the war on terror. Despite career hungry officers. They were the first ones to see action in Afghanistan and did the lion's share of the work taking down the Taliban. The premier special for the premier special missions unit that you would think America looks to when things go wrong. They were watching Green Berets take it to the enemy.
- [62:40]
Tyler
Now question, did those guys agree with that mission or did they think that they should be?
- [62:46]
Brent Tucker
No, absolutely. It was because it was your standard Green Beret mission. Green Beret mission by, with and through partner force. The guys that were there knew the language, knew the culture. They were there dealing with hundreds of foreigners and, and driving them as a force. That's their job. That's what they trained to do. The Delta Force is a, for the most part, a very unilateral mission. That doesn't, that doesn't do that. They're a quick strike mission, you know, very, very strategic. And the hits that they do now, are they capable of doing it? Absolutely, because I did that in Syria. But that was a Green Beret mission all day long. And they, and I don't know of anyone that disagreed with that. And the results, and you know, the proof is in the pudding because the Green Berets absolutely got results. They, they killed so many Taliban. So crazy time. If you think about the beginning of, of the war, I mean, what's more iconic than those initial Green Berets, bearded Americans wearing tribal clothes, riding horseback into war? I don't know how else to say this, but they made war look cool. They really did. They were on posters. People were flooding to selection. Now they're like, those guys, those guys are cool. Those guys are doing great missions and they're cool. I wanna, I wanna be a part of that. That's what got me.
- [64:27]
Tyler
Did they have to learn riding horseback there or. Serious question.
- [64:31]
Brent Tucker
That's, that's like.
- [64:33]
Tyler
Learn how to drive stick.
- [64:34]
Brent Tucker
Yeah, exactly. It's just a man skill that we used to know. It's just a man skill that, that men used to know.
- [64:41]
Tyler
So true.
- [64:43]
Brent Tucker
Good question.
- [64:44]
Tyler
All you guys know how to ride horses?
- [64:45]
Brent Tucker
Good question. Yeah, I can ride horses.
- [64:49]
Tyler
Not right now with your tank. You got to see the live.
- [64:51]
Brent Tucker
You have to do a mechanical bull. But I could ride horses. Much like the rise of fame in the 60s, they gave young American men something to strive for again. They continued their presence in Afghanistan, leading partner forces on direct action missions and clearing operations. Like their Vietnam brothers before them, they took a heavy toll by leading from the front, performing high risk missions, and never allowing the enemy to overrun a single fire base. Even if Tim Kennedy says different, it never happened. How dare he say that that ever happened.
- [65:31]
Tyler
That's crazy. They said that.
- [65:32]
Brent Tucker
What a slap in the face. It's a slap in the face.
- [65:36]
Tyler
That's like essentially the same thing as you going around telling people that somebody just beat my ass. Like, no, they didn't, Brent. Like, why are you telling people this?
- [65:43]
Brent Tucker
Like, absolutely. They also had a role in spearheading the invasion of Iraq, which was, which was very different if you think about it. You're talking about. The invasion of Afghanistan was a true Green Beret mission. The invasion of Iraq was. It was essentially a support role within conventional forces. They had no partner force. Yeah, it was. It was a unilateral mission. And they, they did what they've. What they've always done. And, and they absolutely. They nailed it. They took significant terrain with small teams and that proved invaluable. Directing airstrikes, taking out companies of tanks with Javelin missiles, and again, being a key role in operation after the invasion.
- [66:36]
Tyler
I have a question.
- [66:36]
Brent Tucker
Yeah.
- [66:37]
Tyler
The infamous night vision footage. I use it sometimes for one of my shirts as. Do you know what that was? I mean, it's a. It's like five minutes of footage of a convoy, just all, you know, then they hit a compound and it's the cool. It is the coolest thing ever.
- [66:53]
Brent Tucker
Hopefully someone leaves a comment and tells us about it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what that is. But these, these teams, when they went into planning, so there are. At this time, there were five teams per company. Okay, five teams per company each. Each company that went into the Iraq invasion in their planning. So they. You have an acceptable loss. Like, okay, well, if we lose this many people, in fact, we kind of expect to lose this many people. How are we gonna. How are we gonn x off of that? Their expected loss for the invasion of Iraq? Each company was. We're just going to lose a whole oda. They just, they just, they accepted that we're going to lose a whole ODA is just going to fall off the map and. And we're going to. And we're. We're okay with that, and we're going to keep pushing. So, you know, we look back at the Iraq wars, we rolled over them on the evasion, which is true, but we didn't know that going in, like, going in, they were like the fifth or largest army in the world. Like, we. We went in ready for an absolute fight. The. There's a whole book about the third group team that literally took out a. A tank company with. With Javelins. That's a crazy story. There's so many amazing stories that came out from both Afghanistan and Iraq from. From the g. What they played a key role in the operation after the invasion. Training, advising, accompanying small Iraqi teams to conduct raids at a high rate that helped overturn or that helped turn the tide of the war during the surge and both Afghanistan and Iraq, the ability for Green Berets to conduct human intelligence at a high level sets them apart from others in the Community and shows their connection to where it started, the OSS in Syria I worked with. Jedburgh teams might recognize them from the from the beginning of the episode.
- [68:53]
Tyler
Wait, so they.
- [68:54]
Brent Tucker
They brought them back?
- [68:55]
Tyler
They brought them back.
- [68:56]
Brent Tucker
They brought them back and we'll talk Jedburgh teams what some people thought were new small now they were three man teams that brought them back as four man teams that were picked for their ability to speak a foreign language at a high proficiency and had even more technical training and focus on guerrilla warfare. These teams were great to work with.
- [69:16]
Tyler
I have a question. How little low key jealous were you that you didn't have the opportunity to be on one of those in your career like when you found out you were already in the unit?
- [69:25]
Brent Tucker
Yeah, they weren't even an option. They weren't an option during my kind.
- [69:28]
Tyler
Of like I wish that would have been an option.
- [69:31]
Brent Tucker
They did some cool stuff. They really did with some of the best Green Berets I ever worked with in combat while at the unit came from the Jedburghs. Once again, the Green Braves use their heritage to form a unique team whose concept was already proven. The first special forces group is still in existence today. 10th group. It stood the test of time and is still aligned with Europe. Since then four more active duty groups served to round out the regiment. 7 Special Forces Group, aka the Red Empire due to its red flash, is aligned with South America and Central America. Fifth group, whose nickname is the Legion is aligned with the Middle East. Third Group with Africa and first group with Asia and Southeast Asia. The languages spoken by each group correlate with its area of operations. And There are also two National Guard groups, 19th and 20th. I still believe this. The most lethal force on the battlefield is a team of Green Berets whose mission is only to get results. The amount of training, various skills from commo, medic, demolition engineering, foreign weapons, heavy weapons, mortars, sniper, human intelligence, specialty insertion skills, foreign language planning, unconventional warfare, direct action, special reconnaissance, the list goes on. Everything. That whole list I just gave you can can be done by one 12 man ODA and can be done by essentially every 12 man ODA. That one team can do it all and with little logistical requirements. They are and always have been America's most unique and capable fighting force. History of the Green Berets.
- [71:22]
Tyler
How much of unofficially of the other jobs did you choose to learn or were you kind of not. I don't want to say pressured but expected to know. Like you know, obviously yours was Como.
- [71:35]
Brent Tucker
But cross training is heavy in Special Forces. Even though I was the commo guy, whatever it was, once a quarter, you know, every other month I'll reluctantly, the other guys would have to come over to me and learn how to fill their, their com sec and learn how to use their embedders and learn how to make a commo shot. Even though there's two of us, you know, we talk about it something like two is one and one is none. Even there's two of us, we will. And even in my, my career we did split team operations. They're 12 man teams. I'm telling you the beauty of the 12 man ODA, just until you really do, you don't understand how, how much they got right. So that 12 man team can split into two equal six man teams that are just as capable as each other. You just don't have the redundancy. But once you do split team operations, now you're down to one combo guy and someone else better know how to be proficient at Como. So the whole team cross trains on Kamo demolition heavy weapons. We all learn about mortars. Mortars are a lot more complicated than I ever imagined. At no point did I have any business setting up mortars, but I knew enough to help them out with mortars. So cross training is huge. And the longer you're on an oda, the more proficient you will become at everyone's mos.
- [73:08]
Tyler
So a heavy weapons sergeant, they also knew mortars pretty well. Like they could set up.
- [73:13]
Brent Tucker
So the Charlie's, which is the, the demo guys, they do mortars and so, and so do the Bravos.
- [73:18]
Tyler
Okay?
- [73:19]
Brent Tucker
Yep. And what's really cool about the Bravos, again, you don't understand how important it is until you go to foreign countries. Foreign weapons is a huge thing, you know, with the Bravos. So we, we came across some crazy weapons and every time our Bravo was like, oh, this is a such and such and such and such. It uses this ammunition and it, it has this capability. Whether it was a heavy weapon, a foreign weapon or a small one, they just know it all. It's crazy. And they know how to disassemble it, reassemble it, make it work. They know everything about it. The, the MOS phase of the Q course truly is impressive. That's they every medics there's always this, you know, argument about who's the best. This, there's no argument. 18. And this is until everyone will tell you this, the best medics in the military are 18 Deltas. Yeah, they're the best. If you're shot, you better pray to God you have an 18 delta around you. They're the best medics in the world, I don't think.
- [74:23]
Tyler
I think medics are the best way to describe the importance of knowing, you know, if your medic's gone. Somebody's got to know how to be a medic. You know, if he's. I mean, people forget the battle very easily.
- [74:35]
Brent Tucker
Could.
- [74:35]
Tyler
You could lose both medics fast.
- [74:37]
Brent Tucker
Yeah. Really, it is an operator level task to treat a gunshot wound. Every member of a team should be able to confidently treat a gunshot wound. The medic really should just be there managing it.
- [74:53]
Tyler
Yes.
- [74:54]
Brent Tucker
Yeah, that's what the medic's really for, is to manage it. And if it's just lucky enough for it to be small, he'll get on the weeds too. But he's managing the. He's managing it all. He's. He's triaging he's line. He's making sure that, you know, the medevac is coming in and is coming in with the right equipment and that they're prepared for what's going on. He's already, you know, creating a tactical plan to move, and he's thinking one steps and two steps ahead. The last thing he really needs to be worried about is something as simple as a gunshot wound. Like, it would have to be a very complex injury to warrant the medic really getting his hands dirty.
- [75:35]
Tyler
How much humanitarian aid does special forces do as far as missions?
- [75:40]
Brent Tucker
They do a ton. We used to do things called medcaps. We would just show up to villages and the medic all day long would just set up shop, our two medics, and just see sick and hurt and maimed Afghans all day long. They're also. Here's a. Here's a fun fact. They're also trained in veterinarian medicine. So not only can they help you out, they can help your animals out. I know on surface that may sound really weird, but if you're trying to win the hearts and mind of people and get them on your side to be able to treat their goat.
- [76:19]
Tyler
Just kidding. Just kidding.
- [76:20]
Brent Tucker
Their goat, their horse, their cattle. Those things still are what, you know, provide, you know, for. For these third world countries. It's super important.
- [76:30]
Tyler
Well, you came very prepared, but I want to see how prepared you came. So do you have a funny story pertaining to being in the green brace? And I've heard a couple.
- [76:40]
Brent Tucker
Okay. Oh, man, I got. Okay, here's. I'll give you two. Just. Just right off the bat, when we were in Robin Sage, and if anyone knows the Q course is a special Is the nickname for the special forces qualification course SFQC or just nickname the Q course. One of the last things you'll do is a unconventional warfare exercise called Robin Sage. Also known to some who didn't pass as sob and rage. The infill into Robin Sage is 100 pound rucksacks walking all night to link up with your resistance force. It's brutal.
- [77:28]
Tyler
Yeah.
- [77:30]
Brent Tucker
We were told to carry this chicken because that was going to be our gift to the resistance force leader, this live chicken. And that was going to get us immediately some, some credit. And so not only are we carrying 100 pound rucksacks and our weapons, we're carrying a chicken and it's done all night. So all night long we're walking, you're slipping, sliding slip and sliding. I actually, I actually fell so hard my rucksack hit me. So I got knocked out really on infill and the, and our medic from, and our medic from our Robin Sage team ended up at the unit with me as well as an operator. A small word, but anyway, we keep on falling, keep on falling. One time some so, so know this. We're already having the background. You know, we've been falling and some people have gotten so hurt they've been knocked out trying, trying to walk in. Someone falls and you hear this just weird. You ever, you ever seen someone knocked out? And they just start making like weird noises. Like, yeah, like just the, just weird moans. This moan starts happening and we'll just call him Adam. Adam starts, who's hurt? Who's hurt? He's trying to be tactful about it. He's running, who's hurt? Who's hurt? And he's trying to follow this voice, but it seems like this voice is bouncing off like in the woods and, and this blood curdling moan continues. At some point he's like, okay, real world white lights. I need to know who's hurt. I like, no one's answering me. Like, real world white light. And we turn on the white light and we look and we all look at each other. I'm like, who's hurt? We're all looking at each other. Yeah, right. And then that, that moan starts happening again and we look over to the chicken. Someone fell on the chicken and the chicken and it broke its neck. The chicken is running around, running around the woods and that's why he can't like find who he thinks is hurt. It's everywhere to him because the chicken keeps on running around. By the time we ended up to the G. Chief. He was promised a live chicken. Of course, it's an exercise. But we had to bring him a dead chicken. Yeah. And he's like, why is my chicken dead? This. I didn't. I didn't want a dead chicken. I wanted a live chicken. We needed eggs. And we're like. Because we suck. Oh, gosh. That's.
- [80:02]
Tyler
I've never heard that story.
- [80:03]
Brent Tucker
God. Yeah, that. That. That's a. That's. That's. That's a weird one. We were on target and in Afghanistan, and we had gone up to the, you know, cupola is on an Afghan compound. Like, in Afghanistan, they have those flat roofs that they would sleep on.
- [80:24]
Tyler
Okay.
- [80:25]
Brent Tucker
There was essentially, like, a big doorway. It just. It's just a doorway where the stairs go up, and then you walk out of that do. And you're on the roof. So we're clearing this compound. It's time to come to. We know we're about to exit the cupola and onto the rooftop. I'm the second guy, and. And it's just me and this other guy. He goes left. I go right. I collapse my sector down, and. And he's gone. And I'm like, oh, shit, he's fast. I thought that he just came up, collapse, collapsed the sector really fast. And then. And went back downstairs. And so now I go. I go back in the house. I'm not really looking for him because I figured he was fast. And. And I'm like, but he's not here. Like, where is he? And then I see him later. He's like. He's like, pulling security outside. I'm like, oh, Jason had you outside so fast. He's like, what? I'm like, nothing. I don't know. It's time to reload the helicopter. We all start loading the helicopter, and Jason's got. Gosh. And this guy has this hellacious limp. Hey, you okay? He goes, I'm good. He goes, what happened? He goes, ah, turn my. Turn my. My ankle on a rock. Which happens all the time. Like, you know. I'm like, okay. And at some point, he's. We're getting off the helicopters. Limps even worse. I'm like, you sure? You okay? He goes. He goes, was that you up on the rooftop with me? I said, yeah. I was like, man, you cleared that fast? Maybe rolled your ankle running down the stairs that fast. I was like, why? My class, my sick. You're gone. He goes, oh, I was gone. Like, don't tell anyone, but I fell off the roof. He went left, and under night Vision. Yep. You can't see, you know where. Where it ends. And apparently there was only like 2 or 3ft of roof space. He just walked right off in the middle of night and fell off. Like a. A1. At least one story. If not, it's got to be more than likely a two story house and landed and damn near broke his ankle. And he's like, brent, don't tell anyone, though. I just want you to know. But because you were up there with me, like, that's. Don't tell anyone. Next team meeting. You know, I got the ISR footage. Just disappears. Just disappears off the roof.
- [82:44]
Tyler
Ah, that's awesome.
- [82:45]
Brent Tucker
Oh, there's so many that it was like. Oh. Of those, like, small stories, something stupid happens on almost every objective. Yeah, they're. They're. They're a blast. I mean, they're dangerous and they're really.
- [82:56]
Tyler
Fun and they make the funny things even funnier.
- [82:59]
Brent Tucker
And they do. That's right. They make the funny things even. Funny even. Even sometimes they may not be that funny at the time.
- [83:03]
Tyler
Yeah.
- [83:03]
Brent Tucker
But they, they. They definitely become a lot funnier after the mission and with age.
- [83:07]
Tyler
Wait, he's just like standing outside. You get out there. He's like, hey, what's up, man?
- [83:13]
Brent Tucker
Just played it off. Where were you? No, just bow security. You okay? I'm good. Okay. All right, we'll play your silly little game. And that's the last time he probably confided in me.
- [83:27]
Tyler
Have you ever met him since?
- [83:28]
Brent Tucker
Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, he's. He's. I. I keep in touch with that. With that guy to this day. He is one of. If he wanted to go to the unit, he could have went to the unit. Yeah, he was one of the best Green Berets I ever worked with. And I've said that on podcasts several times. I wanted the unit. And I wasn't even the best guy on my team. I don't think I was. I was probably the third best guy on my team.
- [83:50]
Tyler
Is. It is a unit kind of like where I work, you know, like as a cop. Dudes, which just. I know would be killer SWAT cops. I just know it. But they. They're just like. It's not the lifestyle I want. Yeah. I just don't want either.
- [84:03]
Brent Tucker
Not the lifestyle. I. They're just content.
- [84:07]
Tyler
Or the job.
- [84:09]
Brent Tucker
Yeah. Didn't want the job. Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, I think that's a great correlation. There's a ton of cops that. It sucks to some degree. Because if you think about it, that means your city or county SWAT team isn't actually the best it could be. So here's a question. If you have that type of talent, do you, we'll just keep it SWAT team related but it works out to anything. Do you have an obligation to at least try out to, to make sure that that team answers the call on the city's worst night?
- [84:48]
Tyler
I almost want to say yes because you're in a selfless service profession. You know, like it's, it's hard. You don't want to judge somebody for not doing it.
- [84:58]
Brent Tucker
That's right. And if you don't want to be there, if that's not where your passion is and I don't want you there in a weird way, but if you're capable of it, you should. I don't know the right answer to that. That really is a tough one. But yeah, it's funny you say that. I completely agree with that.