The North Hollywood Shootout

Summary

The Antihero Podcast: The North Hollywood Shootout – Detailed Summary

Episode Information:

• Title: The North Hollywood Shootout
• Release Date: May 12, 2025
• Hosts: Brent Tucker and Tyler (The Antihero Podcast)

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1. Introduction

In this episode, Brent Tucker and Tyler delve deep into one of the most infamous events in law enforcement history: the North Hollywood Shootout of 1997. They aim to provide a comprehensive understanding of the incident, exploring not just the event itself but also the backgrounds of the perpetrators and the subsequent impact on police tactics.

---

2. Background on Bank Robberies

The hosts begin by contextualizing the prevalence of bank robberies from the 1930s through the 1990s. They discuss how economic downturns, like the Great Depression, spurred a rise in bank heists, turning some robbers into legendary figures.

Tyler [09:23]: "These two guys are a lot like those guys in Pain and Gain. Dumber than hell and they think they deserve everything."

They highlight how technological advancements and increased law enforcement coordination have since made such crimes more difficult to execute successfully.

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3. Profiles of the Shooters

Larry Phillips Jr. and Emil Matasarano are introduced as the main actors in the shootout.

• Larry Phillips Jr.: Born on September 20, 1970, in Los Angeles, Larry developed a deep-seated hatred for law enforcement from a young age after witnessing his father's arrest on his sixth birthday. His father, a career criminal, instilled in Larry a passion for guns and a disdain for authority.

  Brent Tucker [07:48]: "Larry's father was a career criminal, and he hated cops. The cops came to the house on Larry's sixth birthday and arrested his dad right in front of him."

• Emil Matasarano: Born in Romania on July 19, 1966, Emil faced bullying after moving to Los Angeles. He found solace in computers and guns, completing a three-year course in electrical engineering before starting his own IT business. Emil's short temper and immature mindset complemented Larry's manipulative nature.

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4. Criminal History and Escalation

The duo's criminal activities began to escalate in the mid-90s, with multiple bank and armored truck robberies:

• June 14, 1995: Their first robbery resulted in $122,500 from an armored truck.
• March 27, 1996: An armored truck hold-up ended with the truck escaping after they opened fire.
• May 2, 1996: They robbed a Bank of America, securing approximately $755,000.
• May 31, 1996: Another Bank of America heist netted them $794,200.

These successful yet increasingly violent robberies showcased their growing boldness and disregard for law enforcement.

Tyler [28:22]: "So, here's the infamous scene where I believe it's Larry starts taking shots at the helicopter. That's when I think everybody's like, these guys are out of control."

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5. The North Hollywood Shootout: Execution

On February 28, 1997, Larry and Emil executed their most notorious robbery at a Bank of America branch in North Hollywood. Their preparation was extensive:

• Weapons: They carried illegally modified rifles with thousands of rounds of ammunition.
• Armor: Larry wore full-body armor, while Emil had a ballistic plate.
• Diversions: They ingested tranquilizers to remain calm during the heist.

Upon entering the bank around 9:17 AM, they immediately engaged in a fierce gun battle with responding police officers. Despite aiming for swift dominance, their lack of strategic planning led to prolonged violence.

Brent Tucker [32:03]: "This is what killed. Did. They probably didn't. Did they say what? He got pulled over for speeding."

6. Law Enforcement's Response

Cops initially equipped with standard-issue pistols and shotguns found themselves outmatched by the robbers' firepower and body armor. The ensuing shootout lasted 44 minutes, during which over 1,700 rounds were exchanged.

• Injuries: Eight civilians and twelve police officers were injured, two of whom sustained career-ending wounds.
• Destruction: Twelve patrol cars and eighty-five civilian vehicles were damaged or destroyed.

Law enforcement eventually called in SWAT teams equipped with rifles, marking a significant turning point in the engagement.

Brent Tucker [38:03]: "And then the anti-theft devices explode, covering all the money in red ink. Their money is now useless."

7. Technical Factors: Weapons and Armor

The shootout highlighted significant gaps in police firepower and tactics:

• Larry's Body Armor: Nearly impervious to the standard ammunition used by the police, making him exceptionally difficult to incapacitate.
• Police Weaponry: Standard patrol rifles proved ineffective against the robbers' armor, necessitating the urgent upgrading of police equipment.

Brent Tucker [39:05]: "Cops have to have the ability to match the bad guys. The second Amendment gives citizens the ability to match bad guys, to match cops, to match a corrupt government."

---

8. Aftermath and Changes in Law Enforcement

The North Hollywood Shootout served as a catalyst for significant changes in police protocols and equipment:

• Armed Police Patrols: Introduction of AR-15 style rifles in standard police patrols to match the firepower of heavily armed criminals.
• SWAT Expansion: Increased deployment and training of SWAT teams for handling high-intensity situations.
• Body Armor Upgrades: Enhanced body armor standards for law enforcement officers to ensure better protection against high-caliber firearms.

Tyler [58:50]: "Yeah, but when you use it was SWAT. It was bomb. It was just a lot of specialty units."

9. Broader Insights and Conclusions

Brent and Tyler reflect on the broader implications of the shootout, emphasizing the ongoing arms race between law enforcement and criminals. They discuss the detrimental effects of unrestricted access to firearms and body armor, arguing that it endangers both police officers and civilians.

Brent Tucker [39:50]: "Cops have to have the ability to match the bad guys... If everyone’s on equal playing fields and no one’s outmatched, I guess we should probably talk things out."

They also touch upon contemporary issues, such as the rise of extreme factions on both the right and left, highlighting the persistent threat they pose to societal stability.

Tyler [63:01]: "If you’re going to chase somebody like that, but they made no attempt."

In conclusion, the North Hollywood Shootout remains a pivotal moment in law enforcement history, underscoring the necessity for continuous adaptation and preparedness in the face of evolving criminal tactics.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Brent Tucker [07:48]: "Larry's father was a career criminal, and he hated cops. The cops came to the house on Larry's sixth birthday and arrested his dad right in front of him."
• Tyler [09:23]: "These two guys are a lot like those guys in Pain and Gain. Dumber than hell and they think they deserve everything."
• Brent Tucker [39:50]: "Cops have to have the ability to match the bad guys... If everyone’s on equal playing fields and no one’s outmatched, I guess we should probably talk things out."
• Tyler [58:50]: "Yeah, but when you use it was SWAT. It was bomb. It was just a lot of specialty units."
• Brent Tucker [62:32]: "It’s a powder keg... The ultra left is dangerous, but the ultra right hates cops just as much."

---

This episode serves as a crucial reminder of the complexities and dangers inherent in high-stakes law enforcement encounters, emphasizing the need for preparedness, appropriate equipment, and strategic planning to protect both officers and civilians effectively.

Transcript

[Brent Tucker]

Requesting assistance. We have a possible 211 in progress at the bank of America. Bank of America, we have shots fired.

[Tyler]

Hold on. We're not recording. Do you want to buy a shirt to support military vets? People want to see their sausage get made.

[Brent Tucker]

An appropriate level of inappropriateness. Something happens in my family tonight. The Delta horse isn't. Isn't coming to rescue my. My family, my kids. Like it is. First responders that are. That are going to save my family.

[Tyler]

They want culture to be down. They want people to not want to be cops. And the people that do want to be cops are now walking into the job scared to do the job.

[Brent Tucker]

I'm going to try to act like it didn't happen, although we. We all know it did.

[Tyler]

JV team for life.

[Brent Tucker]

Did you want to do a test one first?

[Drew]

No, we're pretty good. Well, I did. I did run a test on mine. It is recording.

[Brent Tucker]

All right, So I like it. I like the confidence. Love the confidence. That's how far we've come now on this recording.

[Drew]

We've never had rain. Rain this hard, so I don't know.

[Tyler]

This is our first rain in the studio. The first rain in, like, all year.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Drew]

So it picks up a little bit, but we'll see.

[Tyler]

I don't think so.

[Brent Tucker]

And there's no massive leaks that we know of.

[Tyler]

Yeah, that's good. I was waiting for tonight. I'll test it.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, that. That seems.

[Tyler]

Or it would have been yesterday because it rained hard yesterday too.

[Brent Tucker]

At this. At this point, just. Why not? Air conditioners, leaks.

[Tyler]

Is that why you said whatever? Lol. I was like, hey, just so you know, the freezer's broken. Fridge still works, but the freezer part.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

I mean, I gave in. I'm like, what is that noise? You could hear it from up front. And I followed all the way back, and the freezer was like. I was like, holy.

[Brent Tucker]

So tell. Yeah, it's just sometimes you want, like. Like a good part of life. Like, nothing go wrong. Like, we're on the. We're on the. I. I'm on the other side of that right now. I'm on the other side of that. Nothing's going right. But also, in Austin, it doesn't last forever. No, I'm all. I'm just riding this storm out. Highs and lows.

[Drew]

It's gonna last a long time.

[Tyler]

Thanks, Drew. Thanks, Drew. Hey, brother. I love you.

[Drew]

Just try to even out the negative and positive here, positive there at the end.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Welcome back to the anti hero podcast. Part Delta Force part Street Cop. All truth. I'm Tyler, owner of Counterculture Inc. Go to Counterculture Inc. Threads.com and get 15 off. The best and outsider apparel, graphic tees, stickers, hats, flags, ranger panties, hoodies. Use promo code antihero15% off.

[Brent Tucker]

And I'm Brent Tucker, owner of FRCC. That's First Responder Coffee Company and First Responder Cigar Company. Use promo code FRCC15. That's FRCC15 to get 15% off. The world's best coffee and cigars.

[Tyler]

And of course this episode is brought to you by HPTRT Human Performance Testosterone. Go to HPTRT.com use promo code HERO and get 20% off. Not just your initial order, but every single month after that it's 20% off. If you've done blood work within the last six months, whether it was a VA or your own personal doctor, you could submit that blood work and they'll waive the lab fee cost. So go to hptrt.com promo code HERO and get 20% off your testosterone or peptides or whatever you want to get.

[Brent Tucker]

Or what else? What was that?

[Tyler]

Or the weight loss peptides. Ketamine.

[Brent Tucker]

Get crazy. Go ketamine.

[Tyler]

Why not?

[Brent Tucker]

Well, the. Don't forget our Patreon still have the most affordable Patreon in the business. Two different levels, direct access to us, different forums, different topics. Discount codes, giveaways to our. Directly to our Patreon members. Lot of benefits for a very low buy in. And of course, our Thursday Night Live episodes every Thursday night at 8:00pm Eastern to 10:00pm that one's for the boys. It's always a good time.

[Tyler]

All right, you ready?

[Brent Tucker]

It's been a while since we've done a history episode. We're due. I'm excited about this, actually.

[Tyler]

These are fun. Well, I, I realize it's more fun when you don't have to do all the work for looking at this, but.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, Tyler's doing the heavy lifting on this one. Man, am I appreciative of it. It's been a hell of a week. It's been a hell of a couple weeks. And I'm actually, we've talked about this episode several times. We knew it was coming.

[Tyler]

Yeah, we have a lot of the ones we want to do. I think it's like with the George Washington one and then we had just a, A lot of, I guess law enforcement related incidents, but.

[Brent Tucker]

Oh yeah, there's, there's some big ones and, and this being one of them.

[Tyler]

And the topic is the North Hollywood shootout of 1997. So.

[Brent Tucker]

Love it.

[Tyler]

Yeah, this one. I remember seeing the footage as a kid. This incident right here goes to show you that urban warfare is not off the table for SWAT and patrol. It's very rare where you have to. Where SWAT or patrol has to worry about bounding and, you know, overwatch. But this was essentially a war zone for 44 minutes in North Hollywood out of bank of America. It is the reason why law enforcement now has AR15s. At the time, I think they were M16s, but in their car. But, yeah, we'll get into all that. But I figured, like any history lesson, just breaking down the incident isn't enough. We'll go back a little bit and learn about, you know, learn about the players, why they did it, how they operated, the history of robberies in general and bank robberies. And. And then they together have an extensive history before the incident even happened. So break down all that. Then we'll get to the incident. Last part of the show.

[Brent Tucker]

I love it.

[Tyler]

All right.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, just not. But I love that you did that because when we did the Waco, everyone knows everyone. Everyone liked Waco. Yeah. When. When we dug into the beginning of who was David Kressh, that was. That was what I learned the most.

[Tyler]

That's what. That's what everybody's feedback was. It was like, I've heard the Waco story a million times. Never heard.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

The wise.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. The why behind it.

[Tyler]

And. And you had the David Koresh that we know. And then you went. They were like, there's a whole another David Koresh. That is not. For some reason, you have to look and search for. And that's what I thought. That was really cool. But the North Hollywood shootout happened on February 28, 1997. So let's reverse back. The two people involved were. And I'm going to try to put up still images and some videos and post edit. Larry Phillips Jr. And Emil Mata Serrano. I'm hoping I said that right. Larry Phillips Jr. Was born on September 20, 1970, in Los Angeles, where all their stuff happened. Larry's father was a career criminal, and he hated cops. The cops came to the house on Larry's sixth birthday and arrested his dad right in front of him. So that already set the tone for his, you know, view of law enforcement. And Larry grew up to hate the cops. And the only. The only things that his dad did with him was take him to shooting ranges and teach him about guns. So, you know, you know, I always.

[Brent Tucker]

I always think that's interesting because I, you know, I ended up Telling SWAT cops a lot. And even that that happened, like, I, I stand by this. And I'm like, hey, like quit. I'm not telling you to underestimate, you know, the enemy, but let's not, let's be realistic who we're dealing with as well. Like, do you think that guy went and did up drills at the range today before you hit his house? Do you think he did it last week? Do you think he did it last month? Has he ever, you know, went to the range, you know, and, but again, that's why it's always like, plan for the most likely course of action, but be prepared for the most dangerous. And I say this, and I literally just got done telling guys in Indiana that. But I'm not saying it's off the table. I'm just saying it's just not normal. And here's this kid whose dad's taking him to the range.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Essentially to, to do gun work.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

They're out there.

[Tyler]

This, this story, this incident, I mean, we, we train for a lot of, I don't want to say domestic terrorism, but we train for like people with motives and active shooters. Right. A lot of those people, their end goal is to not engage law enforcement. That is not on their parameters at all. They're going to take as many innocent lives as they can and then they're going to self terminate or try to get away. In this instance, these guys were just straight up bad guys. Straight up bad guys that did not mind shooting police. So Larry wanted to get. He had one of those mindsets where he wanted to get rich quick. He didn't come from any money, but he would see a lot of that movie. Like you ever seen that movie Pain and Gain?

[Brent Tucker]

Oh, yeah. This is a.

[Tyler]

These two guys are a lot like those guys. Dumber than hell and they think they deserve everything.

[Brent Tucker]

My favorite part of the movies where they go, this is still a true story. A true story. I forgot about that movie. You mentioned it. Yeah.

[Tyler]

Was cooking the Hands in the grill.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Oh, man.

[Tyler]

Larry was first arrested for theft in 1989 and he was also arrested for real estate crimes. But he wasn't arrested for anything violent or gun related. He blamed society and everybody else for not attaining this American dream or not having the things that he believed he wanted. It was a more of a the world's against me mindset.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And Larry's brother goes on record everywhere and talks about Larry because he was like, Larry was like an insane, manipulative person. So that's how they know so much About Larry, Emil Matasarano. Not as much as known about him. He was born in Romania, July 19, 1966. He had a difficult childhood, but it was due to bullying because they moved from Romania to Los Angeles. He spent a lot of time on the computer because of the bullying. Spent a lot of time on the computer by himself, which is kids these days anyways, and became obsessed with guns. However, on the con, on the flip side, he finished a three year course in electric engineering and opened up his own IT business, which is a little different than Larry. But he, Emil had a very, very immature mindset and a very, very short fuse. So he wasn't. I don't know if he wasn't all the way there, but that's, you know, they don't know much about him because he only had his parents. The thing about Emil and Larry is they both got into guns and bodybuilding. That was their. They both by themselves were into those two things. And then they met at a Gold's gym. So in 1989 they met at a Gold's Gym and they bonded over the hatred of society. And then on the little sub things of guns and bodybuilding. So when you take those three things and you have something in common with.

[Brent Tucker]

Somebody, a lot like the military, huh? Fitness, guns, hatred of everyone else in the world. It creates a tight bond. It does in the military, sure. This was no exception.

[Tyler]

That's a good point. It has been said, like by Larry's brother, that Larry easily manipulates Emil psychologically into everything that he wants to do. He was just. Larry was known to be a mastermind when it came to dumb people. Not so much a smart guy, but he could manipulate dumber people. So I figured now we know the players. There's actually a history of bank robbery and why it happens and why it's so, why people choose to do it. So bank robberies became very prevalent in the 1930s due to the Great Depression. Once that happened, bank robbers became cause there was no, there was no way to stop them at the time. So bank robberies would happen and these guys would hit multiple banks. There was no investigation back then as far as federally and bank robbers became legends. They with their face and names and everything and people love them. There was. I was trying to think of something in today's time where you can compare it but you really still can't because it's just the bad boy. It's the, it's the outlaw. Kind of like how people love outlaw.

[Brent Tucker]

Motorcycle clubs or you know, one of the other episodes we didn't you know, Pablo was. Escobar was horrible, but he did just enough good in the, you know, the community for those who weren't affected by his violence that he also had a cult following of people who. Who loved him. You know, he was anti establishment. He was. He was Robin Hood, you know, of. Of sorts. I can. I can definitely. I can definitely see that and the lack of technology. I mean, really, like, how you gonna. How are you gonna stop him? Like, without video cameras? I mean, it's such a weird thing. No one wants video cameras on. On every street corner. AI following your face, face recognition, you giving up all your information. But that's. That's what stops a lot of it either. Stops it because it's just so much harder to get away with it. So that alone just stops you from trying to do it.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Or they. Or they get caught and that stops it eventually because they get caught so they don't have the opportunity to continue. But yeah, I'd imagine back in. Back in the 80s and 90s, like, really, what are you gonna. Yeah.

[Tyler]

If you know you. Nowadays, you covered your face.

[Brent Tucker]

You're good.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And that's like, just like you said today's times, you can't get away with anything. There's. You're just monitored everywhere you go.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

I mean, that's how they piece together the. The Boston bombers was. They just started using surveillance footage.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And made a timeline.

[Brent Tucker]

I mean, you don't have cell phones to track these guys to see where they are and where they've been and their text messages and, you know, and really, you know, start to unravel this. Yeah. No license plate readers. I mean, if you really think about it, I mean, from. From the bank robberies of the 30s all the way up to the 90s, not a whole lot changed.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And especially in the 30s, there was no. There was no government entity that like the FBI obviously handles bank robberies. However that. Until that's when the FBI got involved because they're like, these guys are crossing state lines, so they're just. They're robbing banks and all these things are becoming popular. And then they'll go away from that area and then, you know.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And then the authorities put a kebab to that. But it re submerged in the 1960s. When I say the authorities, the FBI finally got involved. And I think there's. There's a really cool movie about it. There's all kinds of. The Dillager escape plan movie with Johnny Depp. The. The Highwayman was, I think it was Bonnie and Clyde.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. What's the. I hate that I forget names so fast. The guy that plays, gosh, the lead role in Yellowstone, Kevin Costner. Didn't Kevin Costner play a lead role? That. He was the guy going on Highwayman. Was that.

[Tyler]

Was that the highwayman went after Bonnie and Clyde? Was that.

[Brent Tucker]

No, no, no. He was. He was it. We're gonna have to stop this here in a second. If he wasn't he also the guy, or I might have the wrong one. Who's Al Capone? Didn't they eventually actually get him from like, tax evasion because they couldn't get him from anything else for everything else. Who. What movie was that? Do you. I thought, I'll find out here in a second.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And that goes to show you, they had nothing on Al Capone. So the federal government's going to win no matter what in any. In any war, if you, whether you're good or you're bad, if you go to war with the federal government, they will win. And they got Al Capone on tax evasion. They got him on white collar crime because they couldn't pin him any murders on them. But I, I want to say it was Kevin Costner and. Oh, man.

[Brent Tucker]

Untouchables. Thank you. Which was that? The Al Capone movie? Was it Untouchables? Yeah, it was that one. Yep. That's what I was thinking of.

[Tyler]

But yeah, we just gave you three solid movies. Check them out. So, yeah, the authorities put it into bank robbery, by the FBI, getting involved and all that stuff. So it kind of. It kind of went away. But then it resubmerged in the 60s and every single year bank robberies went up. So in 1965 they only had 800 bank robberies. To 1985 they had. In 1985, they had 5,500 bank robberies throughout the country. 5,500 bank robberies. So that jumped in just in 20 years. There was 7,900 bank robberies in 1990 and 9,388 the year after that. LA became known as the national capital of bank robberies. Just in LA alone, there was 2, 355 bank robberies in 1991, and that grew to 2,641 in 1992.

[Brent Tucker]

So you think, you think some of that's what's spawned some of the 90s bank robbery movies?

[Tyler]

Brent, this is why we're co hosts. Listen to this. With this hype means pop culture is going to make it appealing again like they did in the 1930s, which they put out the two best bank robbery movies.

[Brent Tucker]

Point Break and. And he.

[Tyler]

Yep, Nice. Yep. They came out right before this happened. Okay, JV Team for life. As you guys know, we drink way too many energy drinks on the Anti Hero podcast. That's why we partnered with Tasty gains. In this one container of 30 gummies is over a hundred cans of pre workout. This is our new replacement for energy drinks. It's a lot more convenient. Obviously, energy drinks you have to keep cold. They taste like warm. I keep these in my gym bag and in my, my, my duffel at work with all my meals in it. And it's just, I mean it's bright colors. You see it, you take it right before your workout. It's perfect. These things taste like candy, so be careful. Listen, guys, we wouldn't be suggesting things that we don' recommend and take ourselves, like the creatine gummies. No one really knows how creatine works. It's the most confusing thing in the world. But yet it's the safest supplement to take and the most effective supplement. Creatine helps your endurance levels and it helps traumatically with recovery. Creatine, though, is powdery and tastes like and is really annoying to when you're loading it and have to do all this stuff and mix it in your water. And then of course, if your water is not warm then it doesn't mix well. These things are the definition of convenience right there. Bright colors. Put them in your gym bag, put them in your lunchbox. Creatine gummies. This one's blue raspberry. I prefer the, my favorite's the strawberry creamsicle. These are a no brainer. Tasty gains is a no brainer. Pre workout and creatine. The things you need to lift and get big. Go to tastygains.com use promo code antihero and get 20% off your order. Ooh. The boys over at Ghostbed did it again. They lowered everything on their website more than half the cost. Now you're going to get even more savings because they took each item, they lowered it more than half and then they're still given anti hero 10% off. So it used to be 50% off and then they were like, hey, we're just going to cut our prices down. So now when you go on the website, Anti Hero promo code antihero will give you 10% off. Ridiculously reduced [e-mail] so go to ghostped.com forward/antihero and get 10 off the extremely reduced prices. These Guys are awesome. These guys have been, are. They were our first sponsor. I talk with them all the time. They're big supporters in what we do, what we stand for, just like all the other podcasts that they, that they help out and they support. If it's. If you got to replace a mattress in the house, if you got to buy new sheets, if you got to buy a new pillow, go with ghost bed because you're gonna save money. And they help us out so much. They're part of the anti hero family, just like me. And just like you are ghostbed.com forward/anti hero or use promo code antihero at checkout and get 10% off your order. JV team for life. So the next point in history for as far as bank robberies go was the bank robbery on September 5, 1991 in LA by the West Hill Bandits, which was a professional hit. And they got away with $437,000, which was a record in LA County.

[Brent Tucker]

I don't want to get crazy. I figured I feel like it's just a little low. I'm not saying 400,000 isn't, isn't a lot of money, but, you know, if you're putting your neck on the line for the boys and you're in like LA Hollywood area with all these big rollers, I mean, I don't. I'm looking for millions maybe.

[Tyler]

Yeah, but maybe it's because it was in the 1990s. I don't know. I would imagine. Now banks don't carry cash like that.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure they don't carry that much cash on hand, you know, especially during, during this time frame where, like, could.

[Tyler]

You imagine robbing a bank and they're like, we have $4,000. It's gonna be so disappointing, which, which actually kind of happens in the North Hollow shootout. But I'll get you.

[Brent Tucker]

All right.

[Tyler]

So this wet West Hill bandits hit with $437,000 was taken. It showed every potential bank robber or what they could get in a heist. So everybody whose wheels were turning on and they were living in the, in the criminal element and they needed money. They're like, holy. They gotta. We're gonna start robbing banks. So but even with that, the numbers dropped from 2,641in 1992 to 749in 1993. The reason why is because technically in LA, there was a string of robberies in that year. That was, it was. I think it was Crips related. It was one shot caller and he was sending in all the juveniles into these banks, and they're just robbing the shit out of him. And of course, they. They caught a couple doing it, and then they flipped on everybody. He went to prison for the conspiracy side of it. And then because the num. His numbers made it 2,641, the next year, it dropped down to less than a thousand because of him. So we'll get into the history of Emil and Larry. Right. So they meet at the Gold's Gym. They're pumping iron. They're. They're talking about how their lifestyle isn't what they want it to be. Again, this is just like that Mark Wahlberg.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. I'd like to think they met in the squat rack. Yeah, Specifically.

[Tyler]

And it's your story.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

[Tyler]

The origin story. You make it how you want. So they. The North Hollywood shootout was not their first gig together. In fact, I think it was like their fifth. On October 23, 1993, four out, just shy of four years before the North Hollywood shootout, they got pulled over. And law enforcement finds a gun on Larry. Upon a search of the vehicle. Oh, found a gun on Larry. Upon a person search, they pulled him out. They searched, and they found a gun. I can only imagine the gun laws back then in la. So upon a search of the vehicle, they find an arsenal of weapons in the trunk, along with bulletproof vests, explosives. I think they were. They were labeled IEDs, smoke grenades, and California. California license plates, two or three of them. And hair dye. And now those. That's not a clue, Larry.

[Brent Tucker]

So this is. This is what killed. Did. They probably didn't. Did they say what? He got pulled over for speeding.

[Tyler]

He sped out of a. They think. They never admitted it, but they think that they were heading to stash all this stuff because they got it all just then to go statue for the first robbery. But why drive like that?

[Brent Tucker]

That's right. Yeah.

[Tyler]

Why? He peeled out of a gas station parking lot and took off, and the cops pulled him. Also, why stop?

[Brent Tucker]

But, yeah, we've already. We've already established the type of guys we're working with here, so let's. Yeah, so let's not put him up on a pedestal. There's no reason to ask why. We. You know why.

[Tyler]

So they were sent to jail for 100 days for conspiracy to commit robbery. However, this is the big one. They were giving back most of their arsenal.

[Brent Tucker]

I can't make it up, dude.

[Tyler]

I. Yeah, I don't know how that decision was made. I don't know if that was a judicial decision, if that was the law enforcement side did not use, like, a percentage of them for the case. So therefore, if it's not evidence, they had to give them back legally. Yeah, but there goes to show, not everything's black and white, people. Just because you. There's nothing saying you can't keep the weapons doesn't mean you should give them back to people like this. So their first robbery on June 14, 1995, because, mind you, they served 100 days in jail and they probably had to, like, redo their plans.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Tyler]

They did an armored truck hold up in broad daylight.

[Brent Tucker]

Nice.

[Tyler]

They started shooting at the armored truck without even giving demands. They just started blasting it.

[Brent Tucker]

They'll figure it out, but we're not.

[Tyler]

Supposed to shoot first. And they did this in front of a ton of witnesses. So this is the first thing. And keep that in mind, because that's going to kind of become their movie. They shot one of the two security guards and made out with 1,201. $122,500. So $122,000 from an armored truck, to be fair, you don't have to enter a building. You do the takedown right on the roadway. You know, that might be a good, good haul for that. I don't know.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, I'm a little bit. I'm okay with that. And not the. Not the 400,000, because it's, you know, it's. Yeah, yeah. A lot more riskier. We'll get on the same approach and give the. I feel like at the end of the day, what you're really concerned about, like, especially in this time, like how you're going to get caught is. Is if the cops show up. So as long as you know their reaction time and get ahead of that. Here's the hard part about their reaction time. Cops move, they have. They're on patrol.

[Tyler]

Yeah, it's a crapshoot.

[Brent Tucker]

That's right. So how did. So how do you.

[Tyler]

How you do.

[Brent Tucker]

How do you control that?

[Tyler]

Well, Larry had police scanners.

[Brent Tucker]

What's that?

[Tyler]

He had police scanners.

[Brent Tucker]

So I would say it's part of it. Just. Just for me, just spitball. And as. As. As I. Now I'm getting into the. The bank robber mindset is you have to call in a diversion area to get the cops moving the other way to buy you. Because it's all about time right now.

[Tyler]

Again, I don't think these guys are the caliber of men to think like that. Strategic. Because other than that, if you're listening to a police scanner. You have to know how many cops are in those zones and what zones are around you. You would have to be like, those cops. Do a call here, here. We're good. But if you're not tracking every single unit.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Tyler]

That'd be really hard. So. Yeah, so that was their first robbery. Their second robbery, March 27, 1996. About nine months later, they take down another armored car. They immediately started shooting into the windshield of the truck as it approached them. But the truck got away. So just choose not to stop. Yeah, they got out of the car, the truck kept going, so they dumped it. Truck got away. So they burned their car. Much like a scene from heat. That's the second robbery. The third robbery is May 2, 1996. Just a couple months later was a Bank of America that walked in and started firing into the air and got away with 7, $755,000. So that's closer to a million.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah. Because I'm thinking before this, if I'm just for. Just run the numbers when they got away with like150,000. If they don't get another successful haul for a couple years, well, you got to split it two ways at this point. You might as well just be working a job. You don't get me wrong. The hours are low. Yeah, but, you know, you might. You could have made that same money.

[Tyler]

That's $70,000 for the year.

[Brent Tucker]

You could have just made the same money working construction.

[Tyler]

And that's a good point.

[Brent Tucker]

But hey, you don't. You don't get the excitement. They don't get the same excitement. Yeah.

[Tyler]

So the fourth robbery took place May 31, 1996. Just weeks after their third robbery, they hit another bank of America. They got away with $794,200. So right now, if they didn't spend anything, they're sitting at $1,671,700 divided by two.

[Brent Tucker]

Because it's both of them. They're sitting on 800,000. They don't have to pay taxes. Thank you, Drew. I mean, you can live, especially in the mid-90s, you can live a while on that.

[Tyler]

Give yourself some time to plan the next one.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give yourself some time when people off.

[Tyler]

You know, you know, do it Ocean's Eleven style.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, but here's what. But if you just live. If you just live a normal life, that that'll go a while some. Something tells me it's the same story every time, right? Yep. They're not capable of that.

[Tyler]

Drugs.

[Brent Tucker]

That's why they wanted to get rich quick. Yeah. Drugs, girls, boats.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Hoes.

[Tyler]

I mean, every man wants it, but we got it. We got to think logically here.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So at this point, the FBI now has profiles on them because they have the same MO Every time. And they also have this very, very nonchalant move to it gives the pressure. They don't care if they get caught. And so that's how they profile these guys as every bank robbery. Two guys, a ski mask, AK47s, and they have a care. They don't have care in the world. So they were able to start putting these guys. They never gave them an official name like the Wet Bandit.

[Brent Tucker]

But.

[Tyler]

So we'll move into the North Hollywood shootout. So like I said, that happened on February 28, 1997. They brought several. They brought several rifles, most of them being illegally modified with thousands of rounds of ammunition. Larry had head to toe body armor, while Emil only had a metal ballistic plate for his vital organs. Prior to, they had ingested tranquilizers to take off, to take the nerve off. So they, they, I guess they got.

[Brent Tucker]

Some planning in them. Yeah, you know they do. They got a little bit of planning in them.

[Tyler]

I don't know. I've never heard of anybody taking a tranquilizer, like in a pill form, but.

[Brent Tucker]

Man, I don't also.

[Tyler]

What if that didn't work? What if it, like, put you on your back?

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Tyler]

You're sitting in bank of America in your car like this.

[Brent Tucker]

I mean, maybe they did. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know how much credit to give them. But that's, that's something you gotta, you gotta practice beforehand. Like, hey, we're gonna take this tonight. So am I. Mentally, there's gonna mess me mentally.

[Tyler]

Yeah, and there's, there's other. I've heard tons of other drugs. I heard that they did mdma. I've heard that they did, which is Ecstasy. I've heard that they took painkillers.

[Brent Tucker]

So.

[Tyler]

No, I guess really, no one really knows. But the, the thing I read said tranquilizers.

[Brent Tucker]

All right.

[Tyler]

Unless they're considering the pain pills to be tranquil in nature.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Tyler]

But at night, 9:17am they make their approach to the bank. After listening to the police scanner, the two force a customer into. Back into the bank as they were leaving. And. But guess what? The whole, the whole reason why the shootout happens is because a squad car was sitting right there and watched it watch them enter the bank. Just like they dress and force a customer inside. And then we'll play and we'll play right now the, the audio clip of the transmission of the cop because you could tell he wasn't ready to see that.

[Brent Tucker]

Requesting assistance. We have a possible 211 in progress at the bank of America. Bank of America. You spill my mind. We just talked about. I just pulled back a little bit. I was like, well yeah, maybe they're doing some planning here. Like maybe that was, you know, we just made fun for being kind of dumb. But some of the things they were prepping for sound like it made sense. And day of on their. On execution on, on, on go time. They don't even sweep the, the street to see if there's no corner check.

[Tyler]

Nothing.

[Brent Tucker]

There's not a squad car right in front of the bank.

[Tyler]

Yep.

[Brent Tucker]

That's crazy.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I know that. Yeah. So the two, they walk in their same mo they begin shooting into the ceiling to keep everybody face down. A mule begins to collect the money and fires rounds into the security door to gain access to the, to the money vault. They thought it was going to be over a 700,000 haul. 700k thousand home. But they ended up with about half that, which pissed them off. And that's, that's. I don't know how people know that, but all the sources I read said that the reason why this took place the way it did is because they were mad that they didn't get the haul. They thought. So they threw essentially a giant temper tantrum.

[Brent Tucker]

I gotta, I got. I mean how do you, how do you. What's your guess? How do you estimate how much you think is in the vault? I mean how do you get to that number? I'm sure there's a way, there's a reason they thought there'd be so much money in a bank.

[Tyler]

Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know. I mean that can't be public knowledge. Private industry, private banks.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, I don't think you'd want that to be out there. And the other maybe silly question I have is, are police scanners a thing of the past?

[Tyler]

Is yeah, everything's going encrypted now.

[Brent Tucker]

Everything's encrypted. So there's no, there's no like police scanner of today.

[Tyler]

I, I believe that you can still. Oh man, there's so much to that.

[Brent Tucker]

Because everything was in the open back in the day. Right.

[Tyler]

And there's arguments that it should be because it's, it's public record. But I think the Counter argument is that things like this happen. So allowing the public to have access to the police communication and emergency management communication.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. And, and I agree with that. They should have access to it anytime they request it. But that doesn't mean that they, they deserve to have access to it in real time.

[Tyler]

Yeah, that's.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, that's completely safe. Yeah. Remember when, when ways was.

[Tyler]

Is it not a thing anymore?

[Brent Tucker]

Oh, it's still a thing. These all the time.

[Tyler]

They tell you where the cops are.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, they tell you where the cops are. And that was something that, you know, that, that they were fighting back against because cops were getting shot, you know, first. They still do, unfortunately for just sitting in their car doing paperwork and what they were worried that if you want to shoot a cop, just get on ways, you'll see where one's parked, you know, all over the place.

[Tyler]

I never, I never thought about that.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

People know right where a cop is sitting.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, they, they lost that and they weren't able to shut that down. But when I, when I first heard that, I was like, wow, that's actually, that's a good point. I don't know. For their own safety, it's funny, they.

[Tyler]

Can shut down TikTok for two days. Can't shut down officer safety stuff.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So Emil begins shooting into the ceiling of the vault while Larry is monitoring the hostage. So Emile's in charge of getting the money, Larry's doing the hostages. Larry peeks out the window, is noticed something he's never seen before. It's a ghost town because the police are starting to surround the building. However, Larry doesn't think anything of it. Yeah, he just goes back to business as usual. I'm assuming that they, they interviewed every single hostage in there and they're able to come up with this reasoning because obviously they can't ask Larry or Emil. So the police have surrounded the bank, however, and we all know this, they're only equipped with nine millimeter pistols and, and they said close range shotguns. I've never heard of a shotgun called that, but shotgun.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

So you got a long range shotgun.

[Tyler]

Maybe they're trying to emphasize that it's just short range weapons. But Larry orders security to take all the hostages to the vault while they make their way to the exit. Larry exits first and opens fire on police. The bullets begin tearing through the squad cars with these, forcing all the cops and all the civilians in the area. All they could do is just drop face down because Larry starts engaging anything that moved. Larry was shooting at. There was no Target discrimination. There was no only cops. It was everything. Larry retreated back into the bank after wounded two civilians in that, that barrage. Both then re exited the bank with the bag of money and more gunfire erupted, resulting in a cop getting shot in the thigh. The cops gunfire was seemingly ineffected and ineffective as it was quote unquote, bouncing off them. They were like, they, they, they were radioing like our rounds are literally bouncing off their body armor.

[Brent Tucker]

That's got to be trippy for cops. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean like, that's got to be like straight out of a nightmare. You can't. A nightmare and goes back a little bit. You know, there's, I love that we're doing this episode because there's, there's some crossover here with, with our, with our History of SWAT episode, which is, you know, that's why SWAT teams, you know, were proliferated across the country was the, the, the, the shooter and the tower in Texas and like, hey, he had a higher power rifle, we had pistols. There's nothing we could do. And so that's why they had SWAT teams and it's taken us this long. Now there's a lot of officers and patrolmen with rifles and rifles in their trunk they can easily get to. But man, that's a pretty newer thing with law enforcement. Law enforcement has been outgunned or the ability to be outgunned for a long time.

[Tyler]

It's like you said, law enforcement has to have the ability to match the bad guys.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Tyler]

And everybody's like, oh, cops don't need these tanks. They don't need this. Like you have to be able to fight.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. And it's such a weird dynamic. And I'm going to say two things that I believe. Cops have to have the ability to match the bad guys. And you know what? The second Amendment gives not bad guys, but citizens the ability, the ability to match. I mean, it's not, it wasn't meant for cops, but that's what it does, you know, it gives you the ability to match bad guys, to match cops, to match a corrupt government. So it's crazy if you think about it. So. But hey, if everyone's on equal playing fields and no one's outmatched, I guess we should probably talk things out.

[Tyler]

At this point. Some of the cops went and went to a local gun store down the road and commandeered a bunch of rifles. They never, as far as I could tell, and everything I read, they never actually were able to use these rifles. But that's, that's what they were forced into doing.

[Brent Tucker]

Love the problem solving though.

[Tyler]

Yeah, like you know, hey, put it. Bill it to the city. JV team for life. Are you tired of using your standard issue flashlight? I know you're still using it because I was still using mine. But I have good news. We've teamed up with Cloud Defensive. The best in the game when it comes to weapons mounted and handheld lights. Go to cloud defensive.com, put in promo code ANTI HERO15 and get free 15 off your entire order. Cloud Defensive pushing the boundaries and illumination. And of course we got to give a shout out to our boys in 09 holsters. Custom built ruggedized duty gear. Made in the USA for cops by cops, a Leo and veteran owned small business. They do an upgraded solutions for duty gear including cases for portable radios, body cameras, tourniquets, and pretty much everything you need to carry on duty. So go to 09holsters com and use promo code ANTIHERO10ZULU9. That's ANTI HERO10Z9 and get yourself 10% off your order.

[Brent Tucker]

Revenge is an act of passion.

[Tyler]

Vengeance is an act of justice.

[Brent Tucker]

Injuries are revenged. Crimes are avenged. Almost a century ago, big pharmaceutical companies re engineered medical school curriculum and faculty with one goal.

[Tyler]

Putting profit before progress.

[Brent Tucker]

Anyone pushing back against the medical matrix they carefully crafted was threatened, silenced, censored.

[Tyler]

Financially ruined or worse.

[Brent Tucker]

They are the problem. We are the solution. Alpha, you are clear to engage with weapons. You're clear to engage with weapons.

[Tyler]

JV team for life. A meal begins to lay down cover fire as Larry makes his way to the car with a bag of money. Then the anti theft devices explode, covering all the money in red ink. Their money is now useless. So.

[Brent Tucker]

The however they were bad before.

[Tyler]

Well, and. And at this point, they still seem oddly calm. They don't really attempt to flee. In fact, they attempt to break into an ATM outside the bank in the middle of the gunfight.

[Brent Tucker]

They're still in work mode.

[Tyler]

We gotta leave with something. Gotta make it worth it. And this is the infamous scene where I believe it's Larry starts taking shots at the helicopter. Okay, that's when I think everybody's like, these guys are out of control.

[Brent Tucker]

No, hey, we got a big party planned tonight. We're gonna celebrate. We got to come up with something.

[Tyler]

Yeah, we're in debt. So at this point, Emile is not doing good. Emil's wounded. He's been wounded multiple times. And he went again. I don't know how they know this, but what I read, they said he. I guess by his body movements, he was in some sort of, like, shock, and he literally went and just sat in the car and took himself out of the fight.

[Brent Tucker]

I'm a head out.

[Tyler]

Yeah, that's. I think that's maybe that's just weirdly odd behavior in the middle of a good fight to get down because he wasn't injured to be incapacitated. He just was like, went and sat down. So I'm assuming that's where they were. Like, maybe he's just.

[Brent Tucker]

And he was the one with just the front plates.

[Tyler]

Just the plates. So it's believed at this point, the two could have made their getaway attempt in the vehicle. They were both sitting right there. They both had their getaway car. But Larry was so pissed and hates the cops so much, he just decided to stay and fight it out. Like. Like you can see actually in the helicopter footage, you can see Emile, he's driving. He reaches over and pops open the passenger door to tell Larry to let's go. And Larry hits it shut and keeps shooting. Right. So, I mean, I don't know if maybe they were like, hey, we're not going to be able to get away with from 40 cops. But they made no attempt.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

So Larry stays in the fight at this time. At this point, SWAT shows up. This is where everything changes. SWAT was everywhere at the time. And the infamous video footage of those guys in their gym shorts. They were training when this call came out. So they put on their. Their gear and they showed up on scene. So SWAT finally arrives, and I say, finally, like, oh, swat finally. But finally somebody's here that can to match these guys. So Larry and Emil split. Emile begins driving the car down the road, and Larry is going on foot. This is when Emil tried to tell him to get in. Larry, shut it. So I guess Larry was now taking cover behind a meal, driving slow, and Emil, I guess, is just going to start taking rounds with his little plate while he drives. Larry takes a knee to fix his gun jam behind a tractor trailer. So Emil keeps going down the road. Okay, Larry takes a knee because he's got a gun jam. One cops. One police officer shoots Larry in the clavicle, causing a major wound. He's not able to operate his. His primary weapon anymore. So he pulls out his Beretta and he begins aggressively shooting that cop. Almost like he's like walking towards that cop. While he's doing that, another cop shoots Larry in the hand and he drops his Beretta. Larry picks up the pistol, puts it under his chin, and self terminates at 9:56am so Larry's out of the fight. Larry's dead.

[Brent Tucker]

This is 9:56. Do you remember what was the time you said they walked in? There was like, 9:17. 9:17 to 9:56. We're almost 40. Yeah. And SWAT's already on scene.

[Tyler]

Yeah, that's pretty quick.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, that ain't bad. Yeah, that ain't bad. Yeah.

[Tyler]

So three blocks away from where Larry Self terminates, Emil's vehicle has two flat tires and the windshield is completely covered in bullet holes. He attempts to carjack multiple vehicles.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay?

[Tyler]

And then he finally approaches a Jeep and fires out of his windshield into the Jeep, causing the driver to flee. However, the driver activated the kill switch to the vehicle, and Emil found this out after downloading all of his weapons from his car into his Jeep. Took all that time sat in the thing, and it wouldn't start. So now he's sitting in a dead Jeep in the road. Probably. The next part is probably the coolest thing I've ever seen. All of a sudden, you see this black and white barreling down the road towards these guys. There's three SWAT cops in this car.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay?

[Tyler]

Obviously, I would think that people would watch this tactic and be like, this is not what to do. But these guys, I think probably knowing that they're the only ones that can stop this, and maybe they know he's at a disadvantage, they barrel down the street in this black and white and pull right up to Larry and his Jeep. Now, Larry's in. In his Jeep, he's sitting. We call it 56 in the cop world. But he's like this with his getaway car, okay? So he exits the Jeep and he runs around to the front of his getaway car, which is because they're, like, facing like this. And he takes a posturing position to engage those three SWAT cops. They essentially enter vehicle CQB with three of the SWAT cops and Emil. And then Emil is shot several times in the chest. In this engagement, however, he's still fighting the cops. Then have the idea to go underneath the vehicles and shoot Emile's unprotected legs, which in turn, Emile falls to the ground. In total, emil is shot 29 times.

[Brent Tucker]

Damn.

[Tyler]

And finally gives up. He loses a lot of blood at this point, however, he still manages to smile and talk to the cops and even says, why don't you put a bullet in my head? He. He died of blood loss. I'm assuming that getting Emil medical attention was not priority due to the priorities of life. There was wounded civilians. That's number one. There was wounded Cops, that's number two. So when you got to think the priorities of life when you're bringing in, first off, the scene's not secure. So fire and ems, the only people that are getting treated are people that the cops are running and grabbing with their cars and pulling out. So then once the scene is determined secure, then they have to prioritize life. And I'm sure Emuls was on the very end of that, so he ended up dying of blood loss.

[Brent Tucker]

Is. Were any cops killed?

[Tyler]

No. Gosh, Brent, you're in my head. I'm telling you. The altercation took 44 minutes.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay?

[Tyler]

Over 1700 rounds were exchanged, 1100 coming from Larry and Emil.

[Brent Tucker]

Wow.

[Tyler]

Eight civilians. And 12 police officers were injured in the exchange, two of which were career ending for the police officers, really. 12 patrol cars were completely destroyed and 85 civilian vehicles were hit, which I didn't think about putting that in this. And then I was like, you know what? That is such a pain in the ass. When you're done with a scene and you got to track every bullet that was fired.

[Brent Tucker]

Like, oh, could you ever imagine? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't. Yeah, that's. That was a lot of. Here's. I, I don't get it. Like, I really don't. Like, there's, there's. And the, like in the two way community. And it was just gun nuts in general. Like, they love full auto. Whether it be a bump stock, there's a new trigger that's out you again where like the, the, the, the, the, the buffer like kind of resets and, and it's. Apparently it's, it's legal, but I'm always like, what is the fascination with full auto? I've never used full auto.

[Tyler]

Well, I mean, maybe once at the.

[Brent Tucker]

Range just to do it or maybe for a Spindex, you know, so never useful. That's a good way to miss everything you're shooting at ammo.

[Tyler]

Well, they, I don't know if they ever said anything, but I remember Vietnam. They, they only had 20 round. Most of them only had 20 round magazines and they had full auto M16s. And I remember I just watched an interview where they were talking to somebody and they were like, man, if they had had semi. Learned to shoot semi automatic back then, it would have engaged their targets a lot more effectively and not ran out of rounds.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, they used to do this thing called the, you know, the mad minute, which, which is. I'm not saying it happened all the time. It was attacking Vietnam like they, they used to. If they thought an attack was imminent. Basically it was a recon by fire. And there's. And, and for a minute and when the sunlight comes up, they're just gonna, just gonna throw bullets in, into the, into the woods. If you're there. Hopefully you're not anymore. But I mean like things like that, like that's a waste. But it's such, I know it's such a waste. Like, I don't. Yeah. And again, I just don't see the fascination with it. And you know, things like this and I get, I'm not trying to, like, I'm not trying to think like these guys needed to be better tactically. But, but, but it goes, it goes to both sides. Yeah. Honestly.

[Tyler]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

To the, it's to the police mindset and it's to the, you know, to the, to the bad guy mindset, but to the police mindset is just returning. Returning random fire does not suppress fire. Returning accurate, returning fewer accurate rounds is what was. It really gets people to, to change. Change their mind, change their actions and think about what they're doing. And it really seems of sorts just by the round count. The cops did do obviously a much better job than, than the bad guys. But the, the amount of damage, like the amount of missed shots is just, is, is crazy.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

But, but that's what happens in these incidents. Again, it's just something I'm, I noticed I'm not, It's not a, it's really not a hit on anyone.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Something that's still kind of mind boggling if you think about the amount of hits and amount of rounds.

[Tyler]

Yeah. And I mean, I guess there's no way of knowing how many times Larry was hit. I mean, I guess they, they probably do. I probably should have researched. They can go through his body armor and look at it.

[Brent Tucker]

You ever, you see his, his, his body armor, what it, what it looked like? It's like a ninja suit.

[Tyler]

Yeah. They have a display of a museum. It's in. That display is about the size of this room in a museum.

[Brent Tucker]

And, and that I'm sure. Where does a guy like that get that from back then? You don't Google it? Like I've never seen a full body armor suit. Like I don't even know where you get that.

[Tyler]

Maybe in the 90s, maybe he may, I don't know. You would have thought they took it from the trunk when they arrested him.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Army Navy surplus stores.

[Brent Tucker]

Armor isn't illegal, you know. I suppose. And nor should it be.

[Tyler]

Those were always fun to go to as A kid. The big surplus stores.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Oh, man.

[Brent Tucker]

Owls. Army, Navy. Remember that? Yeah, I still remember that one.

[Tyler]

Well, us in the. When the conventional army, when you got out, everybody dreaded, I think it was called cif, where you go and every piece of equipment that was ever issued to you, the army wants back. And I remember getting issued like three sleeping bag systems. And I'm like, I don't want any of this. I have to store this now. If I lose it, I got to give it back. So you'd get your list and you and your buddies would go through your list. You spend a whole Saturday doing it. And anything you didn't have, you'd go to the army Navy surplus store down the road. And it was still cheaper to buy it there than it would be to let the government charge you for it. But yeah. So this incident is the primary reason, sole reason why patrol, much like the bell tower incident, was a reason for SWAT patrol being equipped with rifles was because of this incident. Because no city wants to ever have that happen in their city.

[Brent Tucker]

That's right.

[Tyler]

And I feel like, like you said, cops with well placed shots could have ended that. I mean the damage that those two police use. 223 or 556, I also don't know.

[Brent Tucker]

What the difference is, but maggot we've had. I know it's crazy. People think I'm a gun nut because I was in the Delta Force. I only know like what, I don't. I'm not, you know, I'm not that into guns. I know more than the average person, but only know like what I use. And me and Magnet have had this conversation before. We'll keep this in because it's interesting. The, the main difference, if I remember right, is, is the, is the pressure. Right. The 556 is a NATO round and the 223 is the civilian version. But it really has to do with the amount of, of pressure. So since, since The NATO round, the 5, 5, 6 is a much higher pressure round. You can put a 5, 5, 6. Sorry, you can put a 2, 2, 3 and either one because it's lower pressure.

[Tyler]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

But if, but if that gun isn't exactly meant to take a higher pressure. The barrel. Yeah.

[Tyler]

Okay, so 5.56 is too much for a two, two, three barrel.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Do you remember the pressure? The. But it's, it's significant. We looked it up that, that night and it's significant. But other than that, the shape and, and everything else is the same. Yeah.

[Tyler]

So I would imagine that those Little. And we've all shot 9 mil. Like you shoot 100 yard target with a 9 millimeter rifle and then you. And it's like, it's almost like you threw it.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Lob it in.

[Tyler]

So those rifle rounds would have been much more effective and just a stopping power in that firefight for the cops. So. And the last thing that I thought was really ironic is that they did. Obviously they did a search warrant on their home.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Tyler]

After this happened like anything. Larry had a copy of Heat in his VHS player.

[Brent Tucker]

Which is I, which is ironic because what do you remember like the, the cool line that he says and he. I'm a butcher.

[Tyler]

It.

[Brent Tucker]

And I'm gonna have to ask for like a lifeline. Make sure I don't. When he's given advice and it's kind of at the end of the year. Yeah. He's like don't, don't. Basically don't have anything in your life that you can't drop in 10 seconds or less when you feel the heat.

[Tyler]

Yep.

[Brent Tucker]

But that's, but Larry knew that and that's not what he did. When he felt the. What he felt the heat. What'd he do?

[Tyler]

Got mad.

[Brent Tucker]

My man. Stuck around.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. He could have, he could, he could have used that. You know that he could have used. He could have, he could have used that advice that he knew.

[Tyler]

But he didn't get that far into the movie.

[Brent Tucker]

But there was really no, there's no different. They might as well have. There was no different outcome. When the helicopter's overhead and you have that many police show up. Yeah.

[Tyler]

You're not getting away from them because back then the police could chase. In today's time we would have chased somebody like that.

[Brent Tucker]

Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tyler]

And I, and I like to think those caught the reason why SWAT did what they did. And, and when you watch the video I'm sure you've seen it but when you re. Watch it.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

You'll be like man that's brazen. But they are in a neighborhood. Those guys now are. Now they're more of a threat to the public than anything. So it might have just been violence of action.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. And here's another thing people aren't going to want to hear. I don't know what the pushback is like really over this. They haven't truly accepted them as good as they should. Shields.

[Tyler]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

Rifle rated shields. The only thing that's going to allow you to close with and put. And put hands on someone. Agree. Even if, even if you had a pistol A brave guy in a shield could have ended that. Really?

[Tyler]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

It's a bold move. I'm not saying it's an easy, but at least it's an option is what I'm saying. At least was. It's an option. And if you don't have rifles and you don't have shields, you're, you, you're, you're stuck hoping you don't get hit behind your car, get hopefully, hopefully you're aware enough to get behind your engine block because that's the only thing going to save you.

[Tyler]

And I think honestly, back then, probably not a lot of people knew that.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And I think my personal opinion after doing this is I really do believe that if you work not, you can't put this on the cops. This is more of an admin thing. You need to once a year, or at least once every two years, have an urban warfare exercise where your uniform patrol division practices. Because you think, oh, it hasn't happened. This did happen in Dallas, Texas.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And I remember watching that footage live, and I watched on live tv, one of those Dallas cops get gunned down behind a pillar because he was too close to it. And the gunman came right around and killed him on live tv. And they, they went to it and the reporter's eyes were like this and they kept rolling.

[Brent Tucker]

But when it comes to every major city has to do that, you know, they have to. But that'll go down. A whole nother long thing of things we get on our soapbox all the time about that means it costs money to do that. You're going to have to, you're going to have to shut some things down. But, you know, but if we're willing to do other things for the greater good, you're not willing to do that.

[Tyler]

You're willing to pay $60 million out, $60,000 out to a, to a family in a justified shooting.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Or, or. And that's a low end, you know, they're so quick to dole out millions of dollars to, to say sorry to something that they've already investigated internally and said, nope, we're good. And then they'll turn around and, and give, you know, the family money. I have no problem giving a family money if the cops are wrong. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't change anything. But I understand that. But they, so they have money. Let's, let's give, let's give the cops the training because this should never happen again.

[Tyler]

Yeah, but, and I mean, it's, you know, it's, I've been To training like this. It was, it was critical incident training. So UPD really wasn't involved. But when they used it was swat. It was bomb. It was just a lot of specialty units. But guess who outnumbered all, all of the actual role play cops. It was the dog and pony show people behind the tape, all the city people, everybody there was watching. And it became. We remember training and we're like, this is why it took 12 hours to set this up. Everybody was so worried about impressing everyone. Right?

[Brent Tucker]

It's not for you guys. No, it's, it's for, it's for the cops on the ground. It's for the guys actually doing the training.

[Tyler]

And you can't send it uniform patrol division to a MOUNT site. Right.

[Brent Tucker]

So I mean, I'm, I'm surprised the world has not gotten better. And in the 30 years, you know, since, since this event, I am surprised. There's obviously some other things we can point to, but this one is we covered it for a reason. Because it was so historical, it was so outlandish. I'm kind of surprised we haven't had more like it. But there, there will be another one. Yes, there will be another one. And especially with the type of people we have in this country, whether they should be in this country or not, something we're going to cover on the live, the type of people who are very emotional, emotionally upset about world events, about, about cops, about a bunch of things that social media has in their head. That this is wrong and the world is falling apart. Elon's great one day and now Elon's. Elon's Hitler. And this is another problem I have with using those type of names. You call someone Hitler, you better mean it. Because if someone's truly Hitler, what do you feel like you have a moral obligation to do?

[Tyler]

Take him out of power.

[Brent Tucker]

Take him out of power by any means necessary. So the rhetoric is just getting worse. And I'm really glad you decided to do this one because I'm afraid it's going to be relevant and I hope with, you know, the hundred something thousand, you know, follows we have and the amount of first responders, they remember this and they go, you know what, let's, let's, let's put this back on our radar.

[Tyler]

Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I was gonna say something totally forgot because I was like probably.

[Brent Tucker]

Rambled for too long.

[Tyler]

No, I have ADHD brain. But, but yeah, so it, this type stuff, it's not just. Oh, what I was gonna say is it when you were saying that I was Immediately, my brain went to the extreme right rallies where people walked around with guns because they could.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Tyler]

And you walk around and you parade 100 people with assault rifles, and that pops off. That's gonna be powder keg. Yeah, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And as we've talked about before, we're fair about this. The ultra left is dangerous, but the ultra right hates cops just as much. And they're dangerous, too.

[Tyler]

Just. I just watched you say that on one of our shows. I don't know if I was editing something, but. Yeah, you said. You said that. Oh, it was with the Chris, Chris blah we just released. Blah. You were talking about how, you know, the extreme right is just as dangerous as the extreme left, if not more. Because they. The extreme right, the 3 percenters, I guess, kind of. They get mad. Sorry, but that percentage of the right hate cops just as much as BLM does. They hate because they. They see them as the government.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And you were saying that they, you know, you got messages from.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

What do you call that? Fringe.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. From the friends. Right? Yeah. Like, how dare you say that? That you're, you know, Pro 2A and you're pro law enforcement. It blows their mind. Like, you cannot be. You can't be both. Like, cops are coming for your guns. Cops are coming the devil. Like, they. They. They celebrate the same way the ultra left do when. When a cop gets shot or dies, they. They love it. So let's. Let's hope they never realize that they basically have the same agenda and never. And never join forces. But their hatred of other things will keep them from that. And. And the world. World will. Will be okay.

[Tyler]

And, yeah, most fun fact, the end of the episode, most of the over $1.5 million stolen was never recovered.

[Brent Tucker]

I think they'd have to recover at a dollar at a time from the local strip clubs. Oh, man. Tyler, you got a funny story.

[Tyler]

Damn. No, I do.

[Brent Tucker]

Just gonna put you right on the spot with that one.

[Tyler]

Damn. Yeah, I should have had one ready. Damn. Now I give our guests so much, I'm not even ready.

[Brent Tucker]

I just thought about it. Now I don't. And in fairness, I don't think we've ever ended a history episode with a. With. With a funny story from us.

[Tyler]

Dang.

[Drew]

I got a funny story if you want.

[Brent Tucker]

Drew for the win. Better be funny. Okay. All right.

[Drew]

Well, we talked about Army Navy stores. Talk about Al. Army Navy store. Yeah, I don't remember this, but you and Lee, fresh back from, you know, being in the army. You guys, I don't know, 20. I was in my early 20s. And we're over there shopping, and you guys asked me to go ask the army Navy guy. Do you remember what you told me to ask him?

[Brent Tucker]

No.

[Drew]

If you guys have any batteries for chem lights, he army nerds picking on your older brother. And the guy just looks at me, starts laughing. He's like, someone's pulling your leg, dude.

[Brent Tucker]

Drew pulls full, pulls through in the clutch.