Tim Kennedy: The Book Of Lies Part II

Summary

The Antihero Podcast: Tim Kennedy - The Book Of Lies Part II

Episode Information:

• Title: The Antihero Podcast
• Host: The Antihero Podcast
• Episode: Tim Kennedy: The Book Of Lies Part II
• Release Date: January 6, 2025
• Description: Part Delta Force. Part Street Cop. All Truth.

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Introduction

In this pivotal episode of The Antihero Podcast, hosts Brent Tucker and Tyler delve deeper into the controversies surrounding Tim Kennedy's book, The Book Of Lies. Following up on their initial episode that sparked significant attention within the special operations community, the hosts aim to address and debunk several allegations and inaccuracies presented in Kennedy's narrative.

Background: The Initial Episode and Tim Kennedy's Book

The first episode featuring Tim Kennedy's book had a considerable impact, notably receiving attention across various platforms within the Special Forces (SF) community. While many listeners found Kennedy's account to be sensational, Brent and Tyler noted that the episode resonated with those who had prior reservations about Kennedy's credibility.

Brent Tucker [06:02]: "Why do you hate Nickelback? Well, because I was told to hate Nickelback, you know, so it kind of validated, you know, I think their reasons."

This analogy underscores Brent’s skepticism regarding motivations behind disliking Kennedy's accounts without substantial evidence.

Introducing the Guests

To provide a comprehensive counter-narrative, Brent and Tyler bring in key figures who were part of the convoy mission described in Kennedy's book:

• Travis Warlock: Ground Force Commander and Team Leader
• Kevin Wolf: Senior Echo (Communication Sergeant)
• Matt Jenkins: Canine Handler

These guests provide firsthand accounts, challenging the veracity of Kennedy's claims by presenting their own experiences and observations.

Main Discussion

Discrepancies Between the Book and Actual Events

The core of the episode revolves around identifying and addressing inconsistencies between Tim Kennedy's portrayal of events and the accounts provided by his fellow team members.

1. Allegation of Tim Calling a Colleague "Pussy":

   Travis Warlock [00:00-00:23]: "Irregardless of the Geneva Convention... it did not happen."

   Travis recounts a conversation where Kennedy allegedly insulted him in the book. However, Travis vehemently denies any such interactions during the mission.

   Brent Tucker [13:06]: "He lied in. And we'll get to some of that stuff. But, but the..."

2. Exaggerated Attacks and Combat Actions:

   Kennedy's book describes extreme combat scenarios, including large-scale grenade throws and unnecessary engagements with unarmed civilians.

   • Iranians and Sabotage Claims:

     The book claims frequent Iranian sabotage attempts and a horde of 400 Iranian fighters ambushing the convoy.

     Travis Warlock [39:42]: "There's so many things wrong with what you did. You... have little fortitude."

     The guests refute these claims, stating there were no significant Iranian threats or sabotage incidents.

     Kevin Wolf [16:00]: "No. I don't remember any sabotage. We did have to stop for other reasons, though."

   • Grenade Throwing and War Crimes:

     Kennedy narrates instances where he allegedly threw grenades indiscriminately, resulting in civilian casualties.

     Brent Tucker [51:19]: "This is a blatant war crime."

     The guests recount how such actions never occurred and emphasize the professional conduct maintained during the mission.

3. Misrepresentation of Medevac Operations:

   The book claims that American medevac teams refused to assist Afghan civilians, painting a picture of negligence and cruelty.

   Travis Warlock [52:48]: "He made a statement about our medevac operations being heartless."

   The podcast guests firmly counter this, asserting that medevac operations for Afghan civilians were handled promptly and professionally.

   Brent Tucker [53:27]: "I've never seen medevac get denied for an Afghan."

4. Valor and Stolen Valor Accusations:

   Kennedy's narrative purportedly includes false claims of valor, such as multiple Purple Hearts and heroic acts that did not transpire.

   Brent Tucker [127:26]: "He did not have any Valor rewards... That is stolen valor."

   The guests highlight the absence of such honors and the ethical violations associated with falsely claiming military awards.

5. Fabricated Combat Scenarios:

   Descriptions of mass casualties, use of advanced weaponry like the Carl Gustav grenade launcher in unrealistic scenarios, and battles resembling movie plots are thoroughly debunked.

   Travis Warlock [76:36]: "Nothing like that happened. It was just normal operational procedures."

   The guests provide concrete examples of standard operating protocols, contrasting sharply with Kennedy's embellished accounts.

Impact on the Special Forces Community

The episode underscores the ripple effects of Kennedy's book on the SF community, highlighting frustration and disillusionment among team members who feel their integrity and professionalism are being misrepresented.

Brent Tucker [118:47]: "If you have bad ones, they're in charge. So... we have to correct the record."

The hosts emphasize the importance of maintaining accurate representations of SF operations to preserve the honor and reputation of its members.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode draws to a close, the guests collectively assert that The Book Of Lies is a distorted portrayal of their mission and undermines the true spirit and dedication of SF teams. They advocate for truthful storytelling and caution against narratives that sensationalize or fabricate combat experiences.

Travis Warlock [145:35]: "This is how a Green Beret team operates. It did not happen."

Brent and Tyler express gratitude towards their guests for courageously sharing their truths, aiming to restore integrity within the community and inform the American public accurately.

Notable Quotes

• Brent Tucker [06:02]: "Why do you hate Nickelback? Well, because I was told to hate Nickelback... But it really crushed... the civilian people who really looked up to him..."

• Travis Warlock [12:30]: "No, not even close. And, you know, the book, he kind of made me out to be a cherry captain... it's just so ridiculous."

• Kevin Wolf [29:05]: "I do remember [the book's claims]... but I have no recollection of that whatsoever."

• Matt Jenkins [142:05]: "This was an extraordinary mission on its own merits, by itself. And not everything needs to be made into a TV or movie."

• Travis Warlock [145:35]: "This is how a Green Beret team operates. It did not happen."

Key Takeaways

• Authenticity Matters: The podcast reinforces the significance of accurate storytelling within military narratives to uphold the honor and reputation of service members.

• Community Solidarity: The episode showcases the unity and collective effort of SF members in addressing misinformation and defending their integrity.

• Critical Evaluation: Listeners are encouraged to critically assess sources and seek firsthand accounts to form informed opinions about military operations and individuals.

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Disclaimer: This summary is based solely on the provided transcript and aims to accurately represent the discussions and viewpoints expressed during the podcast episode. It is intended for informational purposes only.

Transcript

[Travis Warlock]

Irregardless of the Geneva Convention, Article 12, 14, 15, 16, and Rule 47, which, Tim, you know, just. You filleted yourself, brother, when you did that. So I'm doing you a favor by telling everybody that did not happen so the international criminal courts won't come after you. It did not happen.

[Brent Tucker]

I'd be expecting that thank you letter. The thank you letter's in the mail. Just like his purple heart. No comment. Oh, he didn't kill Big.

[Tyler]

Probably blame me for being an idiot, but.

[Brent Tucker]

And which you were. Which we all were. You have to make it to where crime doesn't pay. You have to deter crime. Whether it's crime or terrorism, it's the same principle.

[Tyler]

You have to clash with supervision. You have to or nothing will get done. Supervisors can't learn how to supervise, and you can't learn how to respect a supervisor without confrontation. It has to happen.

[Brent Tucker]

Do not take that out.

[Tyler]

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[Brent Tucker]

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[Tyler]

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[Tyler]

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[Brent Tucker]

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[Tyler]

You guys ready?

[Brent Tucker]

So ready.

[Tyler]

Welcome back to the.

[Brent Tucker]

Hold on. Uh, go back to his camera. Oh, hold on. Sheesh. We're looking at you. That's my camera.

[Tyler]

Ah, it's the door.

[Brent Tucker]

What's wrong?

[Travis Warlock]

Oh, yeah. Halfway there.

[Brent Tucker]

All right.

[Tyler]

We good?

[Brent Tucker]

What a Start.

[Tyler]

Let's try this again.

[Brent Tucker]

Don't worry guys. We're professionals.

[Tyler]

The lives even crazier. Welcome back to the Anti Hero podcast. Part Delta Force, part street cop. All truth. I'm Tyler, owner of Refracted Wolf Apparel. Use promo code antihero and get 15% off. The best in outsider culture, graphic tees, stickers, hats, flags, beanies and even ranger panties.

[Brent Tucker]

And I'm Brent Tucker, owner of FRCC that's First Responder Cigar and First Responder Coffee Company. Use FRCC 15, that's FRCC 15 to get 15% off the world's best coffee and cigars.

[Tyler]

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[Brent Tucker]

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[Tyler]

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[Brent Tucker]

And don't forget our Patreon. We have the most affordable Patreon in the business. We have three dollars and five dollar levels and it's what allows us to keep this place up and running. The lights on, the equipment, in fact, that we just moved into a new studio.

[Tyler]

I know it's amazing.

[Brent Tucker]

We won't look like it to you guys. It looks very much like our old one. But if you're a Patreon member, you'd know what the rest of the studio looks like. And we also do the Thursday night Live episodes every Thursday night at 8pm Eastern, Eastern. So be sure to follow us on YouTube and tune in there.

[Tyler]

And we will be in Philadelphia for our live show. There was a chance that there was going to be a blizzard. However, that is not happening or if it is happening, it's happening later. So we are currently scheduled to be in Philadelphia on January 11, Saturday doing a live show with conduct Unbecoming, the Unbecoming podcast and Good Cop, Bad Cop, they're our host podcast in Philly. So come party with us. $5 cover live show. It's going to be amaz foreign.

[Brent Tucker]

Let's get right into this episode. This is a, a follow on episode to our initial Tim Kennedy episode that kind of broke the Internet. It didn't. It didn't. I don't think it. I know it didn't. It didn't do anything negative to, to guys in the community. Because guys, the community were like, yeah, it doesn't surprise me. But what it did for them was I kind of like validate the reasons that they didn't like him. But I'll tell you this, I'm, I'm not a fan of just not liking someone because you don't like them. You know, heck, it kind of goes back to Nickelback.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Why do you hate Nickelback? Well, because I was told to hate Nickelback, you know, so it kind of validated, you know, I think their reasons. But it really crushed, you know, a lot of the civilian people who really looked up to him and had no reason to, you know, to question anything in the book. But at the end of the day, we did as much research as we could and we used his book as.

[Tyler]

A source of information.

[Brent Tucker]

Well, we used his book and his teammates. And at the end of the day, Tim came back with a less than truthful rebuttal. It's just not casting stones. And we're going to be, as we always are, professional doing this. But that is the way to describe that. Even his rebuttal about being a liar, he lied in. And we'll get to some of that stuff. But, but the, and so rather than make it more of a he said, she said thing, we actually have his teammates, which I talked to, you know, before recording the first podcast. But what really, I think energized him, but I'll let them explain as well as this goes on, you know, Tim's unwillingness to come clean and come forward, you know, kind of, you know, brought some of these guys out of the shadows because, you know, guys in special operations don't want to come on podcasts generally. And I get that. So his, his, you know, again, his lack, his lack of, of integrity and forthcomingness about this, you know, kind of, I wouldn't say force their hand, but got to encourage them to like, you know, if he's not going to do the right thing, then, you know, you push us so far, then we Will. So that being said, with us we have Travis Warlock. Travis was the ground force commander and the team leader for the convoy that is in Tim Kennedy's book that we did the episode about. Again, we didn't do. We didn't cover the whole book. We just covered two chapters in the book. Yeah, there's way more to cover, but these guys were there on the. In the convoy with Tim. So we have the team leader and the ground force commander here with us. Travis Whirlach. Thank you so much for flying down and being here in person. We also have the senior echo for that convoy. The echo is the communication sergeant. You have two of them. You have a junior and a senior. Usually he was the senior echo. And with us we have Kevin Wolf. Thank you, Kevin, so much for joining us remotely. I really appreciate it. And we also have Matt Jenkins, who was there during the whole duration of AS the convoy. He was their canine handler. Thank you guys so much. I know it's a big ask to come on the show, but I really appreciate it.

[Tyler]

JV team for life.

[Brent Tucker]

Tyler, how many critical incidents do you think we've covered so far in this podcast, man?

[Tyler]

At least five, six.

[Brent Tucker]

And they're not going to stop, you know, there's. You cannot stop them all. So they're going to happen. And you really have, you know, two charters of that. Obviously, one is to stop them from happening, but since you can't stop them all from happening, you owe it to the people that you protect and depend on you to react to those situations in the most effective and efficient manner. And right now, really, whether you're a fire department, ems, law enforcement, you're stuck with essentially radios.

[Tyler]

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[Brent Tucker]

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[Tyler]

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[Brent Tucker]

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[Tyler]

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[Brent Tucker]

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[Tyler]

JV team for life.

[Brent Tucker]

Let's start here. Some people have some questions because you actually did a interview with Tim. And let's just. Let's just get to the. What was the genesis of that? Let's. Let's talk about that.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah. So, Brent, when you contacted me about the book, that's the first time I'd ever heard about it. And you were asking me, hey, was this stuff really going on? I was like, ah, man, this is a pretty big stretch, you know.

[Brent Tucker]

But you knew about the book. You knew about the book or you didn't even know about the book? You said, I don't think I knew about the book. Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah, I don't think I knew about it.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

And you gave me a call, said, hey, man, I just had some questions about some of these accusations that Tim is making. I said, all right. So we. We were talking and back and forth, and it was just kind of going one after the other. And I kind of saw he was just layering it on. I was like, ah, he's trying to build a movie script. He's just. I got it. Little bravado, right? No big deal. And probably about an hour into our conversation, like, hey, I didn't want to lead with this. You did. And you're like, hey, I wanted this to be, you know, your honest response, but, you know, I've got to tell you that, hey, the dude called you a pussy in the book and said your actions were just, you know, typical of a. An officer looking out for his, you know, mission instead of the men. And I was like, oh, my God, there's no way. I'm thinking to myself, there's no way he said that.

[Brent Tucker]

I remember that conversation vividly. And I mean, you were also. You were almost in denial about it. You're like, there's no. He didn't say that. And I said. I said, I'm read it from the book right now. I don't know if you remember. You're like, take a picture. I was like, send that to me. Like, you were such in denial. That's what, you know, because it was so over the top. I'm like, absolutely. You know, of course it's the truth. Of course I'll take a picture of it.

[Travis Warlock]

Absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

And I remember how taken back you were by it, because he really, essentially, he does call you a pussy, and he calls you essentially a coward. And, you know, he, you know, talks about how he dressed you down, and let's take a step back just for a second, and it was over. What he said in the book was. And we'll get to this chronologically as well, but where he said, you wouldn't drop bombs on a school, and he was pleading with you to drop bombs on a school, and you're like, no, because of ROE and political reasons, I can't drop bombs in a school. And Tim basically said, you're a pussy, You're a coward. You don't have the, you know, the intestinal fortitude to do what's right in war. And he dressed you down and walked away. But that didn't happen, did it?

[Travis Warlock]

No, not even close. And, you know, the book, he kind of made me out to be a cherry captain, and later I told him. I was like, hey, dude, you know, I had more time as an SFNCO at that time, as I did as an SF officer, but, you know, it was just so ridiculous. I mean, had he known that we started that. That deployment cycle, unfortunately, One of our 18 Bravos, he was wounded on the previous deployment, and he got a little lippy on the first time we came into troops in the contact, and we just had to move him back to the B team.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

And then on that convoy mission, I mean, I don't want to. I'm not gonna use the guy's name, but we had a warrant officer on the team that was getting kind of squirrely. A lot of the guys didn't have confidence in him, so we left him at the fire base. So, I mean, to think that Tim would have walked up there and said something like that to me, and I wouldn't have just ruined his career. I mean, you just can't let. I don't care if you're in a leadership position as an E5.

[Tyler]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

You can't let that happen, especially in the intensity of that situation. Yeah, I would have just killed him. I mean, literally. But I would have been on a Blackhawk. He would have left at Anaconda. This would have happened.

[Brent Tucker]

Absolutely. Kevin, I'll bring you in just real quick, because unless our viewers were on an ODA or a small team, just in general or maybe Special Operations, I think they don't understand how quick news travels on a team. Just insanely quick. Like, no one does anything that the whole team doesn't find out about. Did you. Did you ever hear of, of. Of Travis getting dressed down by Tim or Tim calling a pussy or this did. Did. Well now I gotta, I forget. I gotta take a step back. Was there ever a call for fire mission on a school that even happened? Do you. Was that.

[Travis Warlock]

No. What Tim did throughout the book is he took. You know the perfect lie has a little bit of the truth in it.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

So yeah, there was a school as we were coming over to the village that was out in front of Anaconda. And there was a hardened school. You could see it was built by probably USAID years earlier. And we had some guys in man dresses with AK47s running in and out. I think we had one of our bravos dropping some shooting some 60 millimeter mortars at it. It was light fire, nothing heavy. But thank God Tim wasn't the team leader because he would have probably dropped a bomb on it and we could see what happened probably within 10 hours. Later I gave him the option to throw a five pound grenade instead of dropping a 500 pound bomb. And he came out with an entire family. And his decision making was so flawed that. Thank God, you know. But I never talked to Tim about why we didn't drop the bomb on that thing. But once you're into the AO of another team.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Travis Warlock]

I mean I couldn't imagine if another ODA came into Argendab where Kevin and I were working at and Matt and they came rolling through and dropped a bomb on the school. We were all sf the guys did it us there.

[Brent Tucker]

It would have been without absolute clear reasons of why he did it. Sporadic gunfire Parv was gonna do it and you guys did engage it. Cause you said you were engaging it with mortar. So it's not like you just ignored it.

[Travis Warlock]

No, but you had no idea who was in there.

[Brent Tucker]

But that's right. You don't know if they're. If they're using kids, you know inside there.

[Travis Warlock]

Right?

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Kevin, what do you remember about. About that?

[Kevin Wolf]

I. I do remember talking about engagement orders. But I will say for that entire mission I am maybe 3ft away from Travis pressed inside that same vehicle next to each other. There was a time he was dressed down. Ah, I'm sure he would have vented about it inside the vehicle probably for the rest of the mission.

[Matt Jenkins]

Man.

[Kevin Wolf]

I just don't recall that at all myself traveless and then our delta got very close in that vehicle. I'm sure it would have come up at some point in that mission for sure. I don't recollect anything.

[Brent Tucker]

So the. So that was the catalyst of really, I would say, like, you getting involved into it. And in fact, I'm glad you brought that up. And I'm glad, you know, that you were the one that. That broached that subject when I called you. I was never on a. Like, on a. On a hit piece mission, like, tell me all the dirt.

[Travis Warlock]

No, no.

[Brent Tucker]

The way you just described it was the way I did it to everyone, where I said, hey, I'm just looking for the truth. If you don't know the answer, then I don't care. Like, don't, you know, don't make anything up. Just, you know, just yes or no. And here's. Here's a list of questions I have. And I knew that I feel like I would have lost a little bit of validity by leading in with the, you know, Tim. You know, Tim Kennedy called you a pussy. Right. You know, I mean, like, that. That would have lost some levitic. Some.

[Travis Warlock]

It would have been biased after that.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, it would have. Yes. Right. It had clearly been biased. So I waited to talk to you until we got to that point, you know, till we got to it, you know, chronologically, because, you know, it was very important, you know, to me to get this done the right way. And, you know, hopefully Kevin and Matt feel the same way when I got a chance to talk to you guys as well. I'm glad you brought that up. So what is it that again, like, you know, they're gonna. People would have either would have heard you originally, you know, by name on our original podcast that went viral, and then if they would have followed the story, they would have seen you sitting down with Tim on an interview. So tell us about that.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah, so Tim came out, and first I called him because I know you were wanting me to come on the first episode of the 101, right?

[Brent Tucker]

Yep.

[Travis Warlock]

And I thought, you know what, man? I'm going to just. I'd rather try to find peace than make war. So I called Tim up, or I got in touch with Tim, said, hey, give me a call.

[Brent Tucker]

He.

[Travis Warlock]

He called me back, and I kind of exploded a little bit and said, hey, look, man, there is. I can't believe you did this. There's just so many things wrong with what you did. You just don't have the maturity level to understand it. Aside from just insulting me, what you did was you basically made a statement and defined every 18 Alpha out there as being a nitwit that a staff sergeant's gonna run over. So for every defense attache around the world, when jsets or FID missions are coming up. If they didn't know any better, and they just read Tim Kennedy's book, they're like, who in the hell are these people, this oda, coming into this country to do FIT or jset. And apparently their officers suck because they're letting staff sergeant run all over them for not bombing a building. Thank God he didn't do. And it's just insane. So I told Tim, I was like, look, man, you need to correct the record. You need to come just make a podcast or whatever and just simply state that you didn't say that about me. It's ridiculous, right? No one believes it anyway. Secondly, hey, I'd really appreciate it if you'd come out to my range and endorse it. Come out here and shoot with me and endorse it for kind of like, punitive damages because you damn sure incurred them. And I'm letting it go. And I'll just be a quiet professional, and I won't come on the antihero podcast.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

She's like, hey, I'd love to, Travis. I'll come out there. Came out with a video guy. Not a crew, but just one dude in the video camera. Competent individual, shot the course, loved it, said, I'm gonna make you a promo in exchange for me having said this. He apologized to me and my wife. And I'm like, God, man, that's really cool. Right? So he goes, at the end of it, I'm gonna do a podcast, and I'm gonna first form our video a intro to it to make it absolutely clear. I did not say that to you. So here I am sitting in this podcast, and he starts bringing up, goes, hey, you know, and there's this time, Travis, I started talking shit about you. And I'm like, man, I don't want to rip this dude down. He came out here, asked for forgiveness. He did exactly what I asked him to do. He didn't have to. I wasn't extorting him or anything, Right. Just said, hey, man, I'd appreciate it if you do it. And he did, right? And so we start going through the podcast. He's like, ah, you know, I started talking shit about you. And at that time, I'm like, don't worry about it, Tim.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

And just kind of downplayed it. I'd forgiven him, right?

[Brent Tucker]

And of course. And the version he released, he. He makes it sound like the, you know, the talking shit he did was very vague. Like, it could have been behind your back. It could have. It could have Been just, you know, him venting to another teammate. Like, there was no context of it. But I understand now that, you know, as you're explaining it, there would have been context to it if he would have. If he would have done what he said he was going to do, which was start the video out with. With the correcting of the record of the book where. Where he says he dressed. You're down, you're incompetent. You were junior. And he was going to address that. But since he didn't do that completely left that off his video, it made what he said look, look very. What he said. There was no context to what he said correct.

[Travis Warlock]

And I kind of just. I knew where he was going with it. I thought he was wanting to open it up. And at that time, I'm like, hey, man, water over the bridge. You know, you apologized to me and my wife. You came out here, did this promo. I don't want to beat you to death with this thing. Hey. And I think I just went into haste, like, locker room talk, whatever, and just let it go, thinking that was going to be the end of it. Until he released the podcast without the intro filmed. And when I sat back and looked at the context of it, I was just like, oh, my gosh, man. And I sent Tim a text. I was like, dude, why didn't you put that on there?

[Brent Tucker]

Right?

[Travis Warlock]

And I don't know. He had some ridiculous excuse. He always has excuses. I've got text after text after text. Tim, thank you for coming out here, doing a promo for me. It was great, man. You did a really good job. I even shot a cop and admitted to it. Right?

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

And it's kind of humble about it. And actually, really, when you sit down with Tim Kennedy, he's got a great personality, very likable individual.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

So are the best used car salesman.

[Brent Tucker]

Right, right, right. And at this point, you feel like you've been bitten twice by him.

[Travis Warlock]

Totally. Oh, was bitten twice by him.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. It didn't feel like it. Yeah. You were bitten twice by him.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah. At first, it was just. This was insult to the injury. And so at that point, I think I got in touch with you. I'm like, man, I've had it with this dude.

[Tyler]

Did you know that he was going to ask you and ask you to corroborate his details on the mission? Like, he was shivers. You remember this? You remember that? And I saw you kind of, like, lacked nervously.

[Travis Warlock]

I don't.

[Tyler]

Did he say he was going?

[Brent Tucker]

No.

[Travis Warlock]

There was no prearranged conversation other than he had his video guy. After we shot the, he goes find a place we can sit down. And we just walked over with a couple of chairs, sat down and they started rolling the tape.

[Brent Tucker]

And this will get me to my next point. And there are other things that he did talk about, like he wanted to talk about the grenade throw, which we'll talk about. I've never underestimated Tim. I've always thought that he was a very smart person, cunning, that he wasn't to be taken lightly. And I didn't think he was going to take this light lying down. I had hoped that he was going to come clean but. But I wasn't surprised when he didn't. So he's done a good job of circling the wagons on what is true. Like he did throw a grenade. You guys did get into several gunfights. You guys were in, in, in bad guy country. There are so many things, but that's what frustrates me. And we, and you know, Kevin and Matt, we talked about this as well. The truth was good enough. It was an amazing mission. It was a massively successful convoy that went right up the gut of Taliban country. But that wasn't good enough. And so he's done a good job of circling the wagons on what is true and not really addressing at all the bigger allegations. And even when it did look like he had a chance to address one of the bigger allegations, he, you know, he did, he didn't, he didn't do it in a stand up way.

[Travis Warlock]

No, not at all.

[Brent Tucker]

That's the best way I can say that professionally.

[Travis Warlock]

So there's gotta be a reason why to everything. I'm just assuming there's a tremendous amount of liabilities on, you know, publishing that book, nonfiction, as if it was a documentary. I mean it's like you could almost see everybody that bought it filing into a class action lawsuit for recovery of their investment.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. And, and since, and I know a lot of you guys have already seen the, you know, the three hour podcast that, that really dives into detail, you know, about these, you know, the two chapters we did cover. We're not going to check, we're not going to, we're not going to do that all over again. But we are going to rehash some of it and, but we're now we're going to get to rehash some of it with the guys that were actually there and on the ground and we'll take the he said she said out of it and you're not hearing it. From one guy, you're not hearing it from two guys, you're gonna hear it from three guys. And in fact, there were more guys that wanted to come on, but they were active duty still, and they actually asked for permission to come on. And I get it, that, that they didn't get that. But if, if you can't take three people's word for that. Was there then. Then, yeah, there's, There's. There's no hope for you. So, Kevin, let's, let's start it out with. We'll stay chronological again. Like I said, we're just going to hit the wave. You know what? Before. Before we start that.

[Tyler]

Want to reference the book real quick.

[Brent Tucker]

I said we weren't going to reference the book.

[Tyler]

Just one quick thing.

[Brent Tucker]

But I think there are two quick things. I just.

[Tyler]

And actually Travis brought this to my attention.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, Travis brought this up. I was like, you know, let's lead out with that.

[Travis Warlock]

Sorry, Tim.

[Tyler]

Alright, so on page two in the introduction, Tim states, you don't want to be dumb. Your life only gets better when you do a few things. And he lists some things. The first thing that he lists is take accountability for it. It's your fault.

[Brent Tucker]

He hadn't. He had that opportunity to practice what he preaches multiple times, and he did not. What's the second thing in the book? Very next page.

[Tyler]

Yeah, I did my absolute best to corroborate every single story in here, but the fog of war is a real phenomenon and that is their claim to fame. And I also talked to Travis and that is not true. Nick Palmisano and him both stated that they talked to everybody they could, multiple members of the team and multiple people that were there. And that's just clearly not true.

[Brent Tucker]

I said I'd go to you. Kevin, just real quick, Travis, did he call you about the book? Did he call? Of course. Because you said you didn't even know he wrote a book, so you would know that. Kevin, just real quick, did. And I don't know the answer to this, I assumed you'd have told me, but did he ever. Did anyone ever reach out to you in regards to the book? Just trying to verify the record.

[Kevin Wolf]

Oh, no. Several of the team members that I've talked to since the podcast came out, their phones were silent too.

[Brent Tucker]

How many? And I don't know. I know this doesn't sound humble, but it is true. The video we did ran rampant throughout the special operations community and the Green Beret community. And, you know, particularly how. How'd you find out about the Podcast.

[Kevin Wolf]

So one of the combat weathermen with the Air Force attached with the team at Anaconda effectively texted me and said, have you seen this? To a certain extent, they're not all.

[Brent Tucker]

That excited about Tim saying he was.

[Kevin Wolf]

A sniper and savior of Anaconda. That was really not the case there. But in some way, I really got to thank Tim. This has been some weird way to reunite everyone. I haven't talked to Travis in 16 years, and I've spoken to other team members more now than I have in the last decade. Thanks, Tim.

[Brent Tucker]

You want to. You want to throw a. A bad number out there of roughly how many people you've talked to, you know, since this podcast or regarding it?

[Kevin Wolf]

I. I've probably talked to about 15 or 16. Oh, and I'm relatively removed from the SF, right.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. And I'm trying not to ask a leading question, so I just don't know how else to ask it. Although your answer is exactly the answer I want it to be, which is the truth. Did any one of those people come back out and be like, well, you know, they really got it wrong, and this, this, and this were wrong. Was there anything. Was there anything that we got wrong that was Ever talked about?

[Kevin Wolf]

No, no, I. I would say there wasn't anything. There was one additional detail that you threw out in your live cast.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Kevin Wolf]

She didn't make it into the first one. And I wouldn't say you got it wrong. It just wasn't included. But it was actually for me.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Kevin Wolf]

Genesis of why I reached out to you right in the first place. He was talking about rocking the baby in his arms. Tyler or Tyler or someone brought it up. And when I heard that, I got sick to my stomach because it's so incredibly not true. And I know, and I know we'll get to that later.

[Brent Tucker]

It's funny you mentioned that. I'm glad you mentioned that. We actually originally recorded that into the podcast and then into the original podcast, and I told. And I told Tyler, I said, hey, I'm like, 98% on that one, but we have to be absolutely right in every aspect, so be prepared to cut that one out until we can really, really, really get verification on that. We got verification on that story, you know, within the week of the live, and that's why we brought it up on the live. We actually recorded that. That. That story. Yeah, but that's how, you know, again, like, that's how. Right. You know, we wanted to be. And I kind of wish we would have left it in there, because I ended up being right. But we couldn't take the chance. We just couldn't take the chance. And Matt, I'll throw it over to you. Did anyone reach out to you about this book? In fact, you spent a decent amount of time in the truck with Tim?

[Matt Jenkins]

Yeah, I spent a short time with them and no, no one's reached out to me. I mean, I've talked with one or two guys over the course of the years, just maybe two or three times, but I kind of, after I got out of service, I.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. And disappeared and you know, just obviously it's, it's obvious because you guys are talking to us, but I didn't even serve with you guys and I was able to get a hold of you, so it's, it's not it. For a guy that did serve with you would have been very easy, you know, to get in touch with you guys. Did you happen to see the podcast or hear about the podcast, Matt?

[Matt Jenkins]

Yeah, I was kind of just scrolling through, you know, Facebook one night and saw it and I started looking in and that's when I saw Travis on there and, and kind of reached out to him and you know, the next day we kind of talked and I think I started out with, hey, I'm still alive.

[Tyler]

JV team for life. And of course we got to give a shout out to our boys in 09 holsters. Custom built ruggedized duty gear. Made in the USA for cops by cops, a Leo and veteran owned small business. They do an upgraded solutions for duty gear including cases for port radios, body cameras, tourniquets and pretty much everything you need to carry on duty. So go to 09holsters.com and use promo code ANTIHERO10ZULU9. That's ANTIHERO10Z9 and get yourself 10% off your order.

[Brent Tucker]

Revenge is an act of passion. Vengeance is an act of justice.

[Travis Warlock]

Injuries are revenged.

[Brent Tucker]

Crimes are avenged. Almost a century ago, big pharmaceutical companies.

[Travis Warlock]

Re engineered medical school curriculum and faculty with one goal. Putting profit before progress.

[Brent Tucker]

Anyone pushing back against the medical matrix.

[Travis Warlock]

They carefully crafted was threatened, silenced, censored, financially ruined or worse.

[Brent Tucker]

They are the problem. We are the solution. You are clear to engage with weapons. You're clear to engage with weapons.

[Tyler]

JV team for life.

[Brent Tucker]

Being, you know, former ODA guy, I know how cool it'd be to actually, you know, end up talking, you know, about one of our missions, you know, together after not talking to each other for years. So I do get how cool that Bart could be. We'll start at the beginning. Kevin the correct me on the number 186 vehicles started. I'm off by one or 200.

[Travis Warlock]

Just over 200 after I saw the vignette that are briefed to USASAK.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

I think initially I told you 180, 190.

[Brent Tucker]

So it got. It got to 200 is like 202. That's crazy. So 202 vehicles start this convoy, which again, ironically enough, he got that wrong in the book because he added at like 80 something. And even then, of all the things that he exaggerates in the book, he decides to underdo the numbers. And again, my reason for that is that this is opinion I give out. I have to take Warren's opinion that he was again, like such a junior guy in the convoy that he, he didn't know the numbers. Like he wasn't that involved in the planning probably at all. But you'd have to tell me that.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah, absolutely. His main responsibility was being the LNO to the checks off, which he called a company. It wasn't. It was just a team, but it was basically the embedder he had on him because we didn't share frequent or crypto.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Travis Warlock]

With checks.

[Brent Tucker]

Yep.

[Travis Warlock]

So the reason Tim was there was simply if we had to maneuver or had to communicate with the checks off, we could call Tim and Tim would relay the relay.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Yep.

[Travis Warlock]

So it kind of goes back to the first general order. I'm never going to leave my post until properly relieved. Right.

[Brent Tucker]

Yep.

[Travis Warlock]

So when he's in his book saying that he was running up to our vehicles, essentially what he was doing was leaving the entire Czechoslovakian special forces team in the blind.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Travis Warlock]

I mean, it was crazy. I mean if you have an array of weapons out at the ODA, say we would just call that a 45. The Czechs off, man. They. They came with some Russian up armored vehicles, some things that look like rail buggies with 50 cows on the top. So they came for. They were. They brought some. They brought some toys.

[Brent Tucker]

They brought some toys, huh?

[Travis Warlock]

It was. We never worked with them before, but worst case scenario, if we had to pull them up or have them hold position.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Travis Warlock]

Once Tim left their vehicle, which I understand I probably would not want to be with a coalition force in the midst of that especially I think he was. Most of the time, I remember him running around in these things called dingoes. It was like a rail buggy, open aired.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

So, yeah, going through Chocozoi Pass and something like that, that would have scared the hell out of me too. I would have wanted to Be up with my, you know, oda, no doubt. But as soon as he took that upon himself to leave, he should have at least notified me or the team that, hey, look, you now have. You're in the blind. The checks are in the blind.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. Yeah. You're not doing the job that you're assigned to do. And the team only works if everybody does their job.

[Travis Warlock]

Absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

The. So when the convoy, this 200 vehicle convoy, rolls out into the heart of bad guy country, you know, he talks about there immediately being problems with. With screwdriver holes punched in the radiators, that they're already trying to sabotage this convoy. Kevin, do you remember having to stop the convoy at all due to screwdriver holes?

[Kevin Wolf]

No, I don't remember any sabotage. We did have to stop for other reasons, though. A lot of wear and tear running through these mountains of Afghanistan and jingle trucks.

[Brent Tucker]

Right, right. And that's. That's a huge. That's a huge difference. So. No. No sabotage of. Of vehicles. The Iranians is another wild one to me. How he. He talks about the Iranians constantly. Travis, we didn't talk about this beforehand. I'll put you on the spot, you know, a little bit. What. What is it that would be super unique and unbelievable about Iranians being there? You want to take a stab at that?

[Travis Warlock]

You know, so we, at that time in Afghanistan, we started seeing EFPs coming in.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

That were made in Iran, right?

[Brent Tucker]

Yep.

[Travis Warlock]

Other than that, I mean, we found.

[Brent Tucker]

Explosively formed projectiles, EF EFPs. And. And those EFPs. Just so people know, because we throw out acronyms all the time. We get hit up in the comment section, like, you guys. I don't know, you guys are talking about. And an EFP is this molten lava of metal that can. That can push right through armor. Yeah. So it's. So it makes your armored vehicle, you know, almost useless.

[Travis Warlock]

Absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

To IDs.

[Travis Warlock]

Sure.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

So the. There was. I listened to all the intel briefs. There was not the first word of Iranian freedom fighters in any case, or capacity. I mean, it was just literally dreamed up. You know, I was reading through some of his chapters, and I was marking the place every time he made a reference to a movie.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

And I gave up after about 30. I didn't even make it through the first chapter. And it was unbelievable. So you can almost see that who's ever writing this or orchestrating it is thinking, this is going to be movie material. That's all that was.

[Tyler]

This is a movie script.

[Brent Tucker]

It is a movie script. Here's we're not just talking about some, some Iranians. This is Tim talking about a horde of 400 Iranians charging you guys. You run out of ammo within 20 minutes. Oh yeah.

[F]

Be surrounded by 400 Iranian freedom fighters. They're kicking her ass. I'm like crawling on the ground eventually trying to find ammo, but the vehicle in front of me explodes. RPGs skipping off of my hood and rounds are like, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. Mike Irish, who is driving, he's like, oh my God, those guys are still alive. So he like hops out of the vehicle and Mike, where are you going? So he runs back down to where we just got blown up. I'm carrying my sniper rifle at this time. I have an SR25 sniper rifle with a suppressor on the end of it. We're trying to pull these bodies out from underneath this overturn Humvee. When the assault line of the Taliban run across the, the ambush zone. All this Taliban, are they like 10ft from me. And I'm trying to move my sniper rifle as I'm holding this half cut off body that is Mike Keller in the 50 Calum 2 machine gun turret position. This is God. Like I don't care what you believe. There's only one way that you can describe how Mike was able to use a 50 caliber machine gun and shoot rounds around Mike and I vaporize this assault line. There were people right here and then there were no more people. They just disappeared.

[Brent Tucker]

So not only did you not hear of, of any Iranian fighters on the ground, Kevin, that I'm assuming that would rule out a horde of 400 storming you guys.

[Kevin Wolf]

Yeah, not, not a force of 400.

[Brent Tucker]

How about, how about 200? Maybe just got the number wrong. Did 200 Iranians come after you guys?

[Kevin Wolf]

I, I can't, I'm, I'm unaware of.

[Brent Tucker]

Any Iranians, so it doesn't matter what number. If I keep going lower, it's not going to help.

[Kevin Wolf]

Maybe one or two snuck in there.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, so I, I even served out in, in Herat and Herat. You know, I don't know if you guys ever served out out west in Herat. Sure did. That was on the Iranian border. And we still never saw a single Iranian fighter on, on, on the border. Now there were foreign fighters, you know, at, you know, Chechnyans is the first thing that, that, that comes to mind. But you know, Iranians is just movie material and it just adds. And, and again, if this was just about radiators, if this was just about Iranians, to be honest with you, we wouldn't be doing a podcast over it, but it's, it just, it just adds to this ridiculous. When you put the whole thing together, it just adds to this ridiculousness.

[Travis Warlock]

And it begs the question too, how did you know. Come to the determination.

[Brent Tucker]

They were Iranians, they weren't wearing flags.

[Travis Warlock]

How did you know that?

[Brent Tucker]

Did you guys, as you guys took off from the convoy, did you guys ever get like SIGINT pushed to you guys that ambushes were coming?

[Travis Warlock]

Yes, but it was just that. The main ambush in Chakozoi Pass, it was just. We were getting some SIGINT from there, but other than that, that was it. No, we didn't get any sigint. The drivers were making a bunch of cell phone calls, nor did we stop the convoy and shake 200 trucks down. Yeah, it was just, Just one. I don't know.

[Brent Tucker]

Here's an. I'm not saying the Afghans were great. By no means is. Is that what I'm saying. But at the end of the day, you know, we give credit where credit's due, you know, and we put the blame where. Where the blame is. And I'm, and I'm also not saying on. On that mark that how many drivers, I mean, out of 200 vehicles, you know, how many are Afghans or Afghan vehicles? Make a number, you know, make. Just make a close number.

[Travis Warlock]

180.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, 180. I'm not saying the. Of 180 of those vehicles, you have 180 Afghan drivers. I'm not saying all of them were clean. I'm not. But if they didn't poke holes in the radiators and they weren't making cell phone calls and they weren't actively trying to get you guys killed, I think it's a really dirty thing to throw that on them and saying this is what these dirt bags were doing when at the end of the day, they, they actually did their job. But, Kevin, I'll let you either rebut that or fill in the blanks on that one.

[Kevin Wolf]

Yeah, you know what? I completely agree with you. I also think it's not a strong incentive to do that. They're in this convoy with us.

[Travis Warlock]

Exactly, exactly.

[Kevin Wolf]

Was there one or two believers out there? Possibly not. 180 of them.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Kevin Wolf]

With that, they would be in the same fight as us in the same convoy path, getting ambushed. I just don't see the incentive. Most of them are just Afghanis trying to make money off of this crazy convoy.

[Brent Tucker]

Matt, Matt, this one's for you and it. It seems like a softball now because we've already established what these drivers did and did not do. But we have to talk talk about it because it was, because it was brought up. Did you. Did you or see any ODA guys ever put a pistol to drivers faces to make them get back in the truck and make them continue going because they were trying to abandon the convoy?

[Matt Jenkins]

Not at all. Didn't see it. Didn't hear about it.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, you sure as heck would have heard about it. You know that's, that's again, some, some. Some. I don't like a. This seems like the apocalypse Apocalypse now like out of a movie. And it's one of those things. I'm not saying that would never happen that and that it has never happened. If it did, my gosh, it would be so far and few between and it'd be such a, you know, a, I don't know, just such a pivotal moment for that to happen. But in this convoy it just never happened. And it goes back to making Green Berets look like these cowboys that'll stick a gun in their partners faces to get them moving.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah. You know, here's the other thing. Looking at the. If you. The trucks were the safest place to be. The Taliban were not shooting Afghan truck drivers. And it was very much. I mean you know how corrupt everything is with there is in the government. I mean this was like the. Not to say the teamsters are corrupt, but I'm saying this was like an Afghan teamsters union.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

These trucks were. I mean I doubt, I don't know how many of them actually own their trucks or this was like some warlord that was paying. But there was a lot of hands in the pot. But these truckers went out there, they knew they were getting paid but probably they were being told to drive too.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. Yeah. This is their livelihood. This is their paycheck.

[Matt Jenkins]

Sure.

[Brent Tucker]

And, and I, and that that checks out. The Taliban is, is playing the same game we are as far as hearts and minds. Sure. Now they play a very different way. But they also know if they go and just shoot up, you know, 180 Afghan trucks that those, those are the people that they're expecting to give them information and to work with them. They're. They're here for you guys. Absolutely not. Not for them. The, the next thing we'll, we'll talk about is the We. You know, the Chacozoid Pass is probably the next thing. This is something that absolutely happened. The IED happened and the vehicle in front of Tim and he had the. And as far as I could tell, I've talked to most of them. He calls Irish Mike, Mike Keller and Mike Goble and him were all in the truck and said this truck flipped. The IED hit so hard it flipped the truck.

[Travis Warlock]

Right. So what happened? And that.

[Brent Tucker]

It did.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah. There was rg, Kevin and I were in and the second team RG was behind that.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

And then as we started going through this Chocozoi Pass, what we did is we, we pulled security element up from our rear oda.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

It was a Humvee and it had Afghan national army in it. So what we did is we put them right behind our truck because wheelbase difference between the RGs and GMVs.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

So they were kind of the sacrificial limbs.

[Brent Tucker]

And I hate to do this again. It's. But the RGs, the RG. Explain the difference between RG and a GMV because people are, you know, they're not going to know that the terminology difference. The.

[Travis Warlock]

Your best up RG looked like a. I guess if you were to see a Wells Fargo truck. Armored truck. Yeah, it looked like something like that except for a four wheel drive configuration with a turn on top.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, but it's huge.

[Travis Warlock]

It's huge. Yes. Absolutely massive. £40,000.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, I remember. And, and the GMVS are like a. The back is an open air.

[Travis Warlock]

It is back.

[Brent Tucker]

But the front, but the front half looks like a Humvee.

[Travis Warlock]

It does.

[Brent Tucker]

And it's called, it's called, called a gmv.

[Travis Warlock]

And they got turrets on the top of this.

[Brent Tucker]

And they got turrets on the top too. The, the problem with that story is he says that it, it flipped and it flipped on top literally like a. What is like the old like Top Gun, like you know, right on top of them and that it, it landed on their roof and they had to reverse out and, and shake this thing off the roof. Now that can't be true because if it landed on your roof, there is a 50 cal gun up there that Tim says goes up and saves their life eventually. Well, there'd be no 50 cal gun up there if a GMP landed on it. And then he says in the book that him and Irish Mike move up and, and pull the, and pull the Afghans out of the vehicle, which very well could have happened.

[Travis Warlock]

I confirmed that did happen. I didn't see it. Kevin and I were ahead of this by now.

[Brent Tucker]

The problem isn't that. The problem is this, is that, you know, he says he, he runs up there with his SR25 and he's hip, firing it like Rambo, keeping the Iranian horde at bay. And then as he's pulling this, you know, has this legless Afghan that's bleeding all over him and he's got guts and blood and everything all over his kit and that he would have died if it wasn't for Mike K getting on the. Getting on the 50 cal gun and just red misting, you know, like going right over his head and just, you know, red misting the Iranians. Again.

[Travis Warlock]

This is a. This is a perfect example of Tim taking a little bit of truth and expanding it. The truck did flip and it landed on the bumper of their gmv. They just kind of had to back out to what the. It drop.

[Brent Tucker]

Let it finish dropping.

[Travis Warlock]

I mean, it was. It was horrific and everything that happened and had he just.

[Brent Tucker]

Just tell the truth.

[Travis Warlock]

Truth. It was fantastic enough. It didn't need all that extra. But, you know, the. And I know, Tyler, you do too. You. The. The hoods on these things are fiberglass. Yeah. You throw a Humve on, well, it's going to be just destroyed.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Travis Warlock]

So none of that happened. I saw these four Afghan Afghan national army soldiers as we made it to like a casualty collection point just out of. Out of Chaka. Way past. Everybody had their legs.

[Brent Tucker]

Really?

[Travis Warlock]

Everybody had their legs. It was just the front half of the vehicle was blown off. And the only way that somebody would have lost their legs if they had them outside the door, maybe.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. But everyone had their legs. He's not covered in blood. Blood and guts of a legless Afghan. And the other thing, it's. It's just like the point he tries to make with you where he makes up a story and then he uses that story to get like a point across. And what he does on this one is he gets really upset that American aviation medevac would not fly for these Afghans.

[Travis Warlock]

Totally false.

[Brent Tucker]

And really makes a. Just a really long winded point about how messed up that is. Which if that were true, he would have a point. But the fact that you are now going to discredit the whole US army and dust off and our medevac aviation units to say that we were so heartless we wouldn't medevac Afghans is an absolute lie. So those Afghans got medevacked.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah. There was one time where we had just a truck driver wreck and we had to stop out in the middle of the desert and call in a medevac for him. I mean, there was no difference.

[Brent Tucker]

And that was how it was in my career. As well. You know, I've never, I have never seen medevac get denied for an Afghan.

[Travis Warlock]

No, not at all.

[Brent Tucker]

And the, the next one, big one will. We'll hit up is after the.

[Travis Warlock]

Well here, if you don't mind me.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, what you got?

[Travis Warlock]

Actually, Tim knew this because the, the very civilians that he, he, that he fragged. Fragged with a grenade.

[Brent Tucker]

I know I was going to get to that.

[Travis Warlock]

They brought in a medevac for him.

[Brent Tucker]

Right? Yeah. And we'll, we'll get to the details of, of that, but it's fine. As soon as I said that I thought, I thought that was. I'm going to talk about that when we get to that. There we go. Because it did happen on, on the mission. The, the, the, the next one that I really want to talk about is the. You guys ronned overnight, which I guess is redundant. You guys rested overnight or rond. And there was another, according to Tim, Mongolian horde that's coming down the mountain and almost, almost wipes you guys out. You know, if it wasn't for the JTAC saving you guys. And you know, he also says at this point he's sleeping under a Humvee and like he's out of ammo. He has no ammo in his M4. He's, he's almost Winchester on his, on his sniper weapon and he's about to go out and recover, you know, do like a battlefield recovery from aks because he's so low on ammo. You guys is.

[Travis Warlock]

We were a rolling resupply.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

For the firebase and we had more than enough even for, I mean, for the most part, Kevin, if you could probably help me out here. It was most of the belt fed weapons, the heavy machine guns and the Mark 19s that were doing all the fire. We really weren't even returning fire with our own weapons. We were buttoned up inside armored vehicles and trying to keep them off and using cast. Right.

[Brent Tucker]

Of course that's almost, that's very Afghan war heavy, which is always, it seems like it's always at a distance. It's always crew serve weapons or cast that's, that's coming in. And Kevin, that's, that's true to this point as well.

[Kevin Wolf]

Yeah. And on top of that, when we first got in the country, we did a whole bunch of welding and bolted on all these ammunition carriers onto the RGs and GMVs. So there was no shortage of ammunition. Our bravos, they made sure we were prepared. So kind of that statement that we were ever black on ammo. It's a discredit to them because the Bravos.

[Brent Tucker]

That's a great point. Were ready to rock. That's a great point. Yeah, that is a great point. Again, it makes it sound like you guys weren't prepared when it just wasn't true. In fact, before we get to the cast thing, I'm gonna take a step back just for a second because I got a question for Matt. This is where the beginning of his. Of the grenade frenzy comes in. And if you guys have been tracking this and all the grenade memes on the Internet have been crazy, just. And they won't stop.

[Tyler]

50 shades of grenades.

[Brent Tucker]

Oh, gosh. And they just won't stop. This is where Tim and the. And the Czechs. It's before the Ron. After the. The Chocozoid Pass where they. They see some Taliban out in the. In the. In the mountain pass or, you know, just off. Off at a distance. And him. And the checks go on this. On this just fast furious direct assault where Tim hops out and, you know, they. They gun him down with. With M4s. The first three close distance, and he finishes off the other nine that are in this mud hut structure with what he says is half of his grenades. And he says he throws 25 grenades in this hut, and then they mow it down with machine guns after that and just make it rubble. We talked about on the podcast how ridiculous that is, and the structure of those mud huts are absolutely impenetrable. Impenetrable. So that's. That's not true. The. At this point of the. Of the convoy, Matt, you. You are. Are you with Tim and Tim's truck at this point in the convoy that you can remember?

[Matt Jenkins]

No, not. Not yet. It was the next day.

[Brent Tucker]

It was the next day. At any point, do you remember seeing Tim running around with. With a backpack. Any backpack or a backpack that may have held 60 pounds of grenades in it?

[Matt Jenkins]

No, he was not running around with the Santa Claus sack of grenades.

[Brent Tucker]

We'll play the same game. How about 40 grenades? Was there. Is there?

[Tyler]

That was what they tried saying is like, it was a number. Like, we don't really know. He joked and said 50. I put 50 in the book.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Tyler]

You know, and so they were still implying that there was a lot of grenades.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. At the end of the day, he's. He's. He's trying to make light of the exact number, but he didn't say, I was just messing around. I. I never ran around with a backpack full of grenades. He's just arguing it wasn't 50. He's like, it was, it was a lot, but it wasn't 50.

[Tyler]

And I wish we, I almost wish we hadn't even brought that up. It's such a moot. Silly point. And it was what they got to use to go, okay, one thing, one thing we got wrong. And it's like that's the least. The valor, the purple Heart, like all. That's the one that everybody cares about. No one really cares about it.

[Brent Tucker]

It's just funny. It's just a funny thing to lie about. But he never took it back and said I was never running around with a backpack full of grenades. He just argued the number. Which, which begs the point, you know. Matt, did you ever see him again running? You said you never even saw him with a backpack.

[Matt Jenkins]

Yeah, never saw him running around with a backpack. Just, just his kit, him running around.

[Brent Tucker]

And, and, and the pictures that we do have of them from the convoy. He doesn't have a backpack on by chance Kevin or Travis, you guys ever see him running around with. With a backpack?

[Travis Warlock]

I couldn't imagine how nervous I would be with 50. Even five grenades rolling around.

[Brent Tucker]

Throw whatever, throw whatever number you want.

[Travis Warlock]

Out there, much less 50. I would just leave the thing down the ground. I wouldn't even pick it up, much less run around.

[Brent Tucker]

Had to because it was so meme heavy. Had to cover the first grenade heavy part of it. And now we're back with the, you know, with the cast on the. Ron, tell us, tell us about the cast. Like what do you remember about the. You know, the cast that night?

[Travis Warlock]

So that was after the Chocozoid Pass.

[Brent Tucker]

After the Chocozoid Pass. Yep. Yes sir.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah. So the, the. We had AC130s on station. I don't remember how they got there. Definitely our jtac, Matt was probably amazing. Yeah. He just really say that? Yeah, absolutely. So they were buzzing around all night. I have no idea how many were on stationed or whether they were dry on ammo or Winchester or out of gas and had another one had to come in. Kevin might be able to add some more fidelity here on this.

[Kevin Wolf]

No, but I do remember the AC130 keeping us safe all night.

[Travis Warlock]

It was like all night just. It was constant shooting. I mean maybe every 30 seconds you were hearing either a chain gun going off or 105 millimeter howitzer coming out of it. It was just something all night buzzing around us.

[Brent Tucker]

And that's far and few between. But I've been on missions like that where the AC130 you know, seemed to always have something to shoot at. But was. Were any of them ever close enough to do a battle, even. Even do a bda, a battle damage assessment where they're close enough like, all right, I'm gonna send some guys out. We're at least gonn. You know, for pocket litter.

[Travis Warlock]

No, we had.

[Brent Tucker]

See if there are Iranians something.

[Travis Warlock]

The next morning when the sun came up, we had all the trucks kind of corralled like cattle.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay. Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

In this open area. And when I got up, I could see anybody laying around. I mean, the hillsides went up all around us from what I can remember. And there was no bodies. No one even mentioned that.

[Brent Tucker]

So this next part would be difficult for it to happen where he says he was using the crow system of the vehicle to identify the sea of dead bodies, their heat signatures, and using his sniper weapon to just. I believe he said, and I don't believe I know he said for hours he had to engage either dead bodies or people pretending to be dead or people who were wounded for, you know, on. Off this sea of bodies. Cuz he had to make sure they were all dead in order to protect you guys so you guys could leave without them jumping up and, and playing dead and, and, and attacking you guys.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah. So he made the reference to painting this picture as a. Here's another movie take of it out of Braveheart with all the bodies. Yeah. Just laying around everywhere.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, right.

[Travis Warlock]

And you know, this is something that, Gosh, Tim, you know, even if you did do that, man, why in the hell would you talk about it? You made us look like idiots. I mean, back to imagine one day after Trump, if we have another Democrat presidential president come in, when you understand how ambassadors are given out, the only thing they are are just people that made extravagant campaign consciousness.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Travis Warlock]

That's all they are. And they're, they're their cronies for the most part. So you can imagine some of these little third world countries that we would go into for fed J sets and an ambassador not having any idea what an SF team is until their little Ivy League assistant came up and said, well, sir, I read this book by Tim Kennedy, and apparently they just shoot people laying on the ground with barely a heartbeat as long as they had a gun around them. Irregardless of the Geneva Convention, Article 12, 14, 15, 16 and Rule 47, which, Tim, you know, just. You filleted yourself brother, when you did that. So I'm doing you a favor by telling everybody that did not happen. So the international criminal courts won't come after you. It did not happen.

[Brent Tucker]

I'd be expecting that thank you letter. The thank you letter's in the mail. Just, just like his Purple Heart. The. And, and just, just to make sure in case both of these guys have bad memories. Matt, do you ever remember that that happened, that story?

[Matt Jenkins]

No. No, not at all.

[Brent Tucker]

Matt, do you think you would remember that?

[Matt Jenkins]

I'm, I'm pretty certain I would remember that because just like Travis said, that's with the criminal courts and whatnot. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that's a war crime.

[Brent Tucker]

The. Now you actually do have some history with, with Tim Kennedy's sniper weapon. Iraq, ironically enough, don't you?

[Matt Jenkins]

Yep. The next day when he was running around in the jump in the back of the truck with me and you know, me being just a dog handler, he took over my 240 that I had and told me to use his sniper weapon because it has a scope and all I had was a red dot. And I employed it one time and he said, did you get him? And I said, I think so. I mean, I don't know.

[Brent Tucker]

50.

[Matt Jenkins]

50. Either I did or didn't.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Matt Jenkins]

And then he kind of gave me another saying, man, I haven't even got a kill with that one yet.

[Brent Tucker]

Oh, that's not gonna, that's, that's not, that's not gonna go well with his, it doesn't cooperate. Yeah. With, with his, with his story. And it's gotta, not to make light of it, but it does, it does hurt when the, when the dog handler potentially gets a kill with your sniper weapon and, and you haven't. Which again, at the end of the day is fine. Like if that's the story, that's actually a funny story. Throw a funny story in the book.

[Travis Warlock]

Absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

But you know, but, but you can't.

[Tyler]

Tim's gotta be the superhero.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, but. Yeah, but that doesn't make him the star of the, of the movie that, that he wrote. We'll fast forward up a little bit again. I said I wouldn't make this a three hour podcast. The next thing that that happens is, is the school in the book. And we've, we've, we've talked of, we, we jumped ahead. We already talked about that. Unless there's anything, you know, you guys want to interject that we didn't cover. We can talk about the, the school real quick. The second thing he covers that we actually didn't cover in the book. But I'll make it a, a special one here. Just because we had so much things to. To cover. There is a moment where they're taking fire in the book from a, from a, from a PKM and he gets this idea that he wants to shoot the Carl G into, into this cave and this he does throw some humor in and he goes and he gets to Carl G and he sends. They only have a couple rounds and he sends one and he misses. And however many rounds he throws, he misses and the, the Bravo from the team gets it. And Tim in a weird way is hoping that the other guy doesn't get a hit because he missed it and the other guy gets a one round hit. Do you guys ever remember employing a Carl G on a cave with a, with a P cam?

[Travis Warlock]

I don't, I can't imagine someone grabbing a Carl Gustav and two at fours in one time and trying to manage that. Not to mention. Where are you carrying the rounds for the Carl Gustav?

[Brent Tucker]

This. That's. I know. It was, it was just a, it was so silly and we had so many other things to cover. Didn't even cover that one.

[Travis Warlock]

And I don't. We never attacked a cave, did we Kevin?

[Kevin Wolf]

I don't even remember a cave.

[Travis Warlock]

I don't either, let alone attacking a cave.

[Brent Tucker]

The, the next one is, is a big one. And this is where we come up to the, to the, to the village where, where the, the guys, the team from Anaconda comes down pluses you guys up, you guys start clearing a village. Give us some context of why they came down here and why you guys cleared that village.

[Travis Warlock]

So yeah, they just met us out. I mean this is their ao. You got Anaconda within the distance and this village out in front of it. We are just coming over the hill and they want us to go straight through the town, the village for our route clearing team to clear it. And man, we're taking mortars back from the Taliban small arms fire. And it was just like now this is crazy. We can see the fire base is off to the right and we got this wide open desert. So I'm like, hey, let's just swing this whole thing to the right. Stay out of that green zone. And the team finally came up and.

[Brent Tucker]

We'Re a resupply mission. That's our job.

[Travis Warlock]

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

And as we were, we had to eventually get close to the green zone because that's where the. It was kind of like a funneling process to get into the gate. Correct me if I'm wrong, Kevin.

[Kevin Wolf]

Yeah, that's spot on.

[Travis Warlock]

So we started just Getting closer and closer and closer. The fire started coming out and we just turned into them to push them back and just move down into the green zone, for lack of a better part. Just trying to look for targets to hit and hopefully just to be an intimidating force with these massive vehicles and than any, you know, ground troops with AK47s.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. At some point you gotta send a message. You gotta, you gotta look, you gotta look like a hard target.

[Travis Warlock]

True.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, true. So you guys did end up clearing part of this village to ensure that the convoy could go through unscathed because you guys were concerned that the convoy had been close enough to the village that it would have caused a problem.

[Travis Warlock]

The truck drivers would eventually stop. When they're starting to hear that stuff, they just stop. They knew they weren't taking fire.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Travis Warlock]

But they would just stop moving.

[Brent Tucker]

But they're not going to push their luck.

[Travis Warlock]

Right, Exactly. Or that's, that would be a good assumption.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. So this is the part of the book where he goes back to his grenades and he, he's throwing grenades into rooms and following the grenade, you know, and, and, and killing everyone in the room. The, of course the, the problem with that is you don't follow grenades into rooms because it creates a massive cloud of dust that does not go anywhere anytime fast. So that's, that, that's, that's right out. But the point to this one is the, the controversial, him and Mike Goble, just two guys on a compound wall and they were going to go into the, the vehicle gate. Most people, everyone's been Afghanistan, every compound so similar, they have a vehicle gate, they have a walk through gate, they always have two gates. One's again a walkthrough gate, it's a man sized gate. The other one's for their vehicles. They have this idea to go in through the man sized gate. And Mike Goble's on one side, Tim Kennedy's on the other side of this door. And apparently as Tim goes to walk into the door, Mike Goble reaches across the threshold and pushes Tim to the ground. And Tim says he thought Mike just wanted to go into the door first. And so he's going to get up and punch him in the mouth for, for, for doing that move. And then he realized that Mike saved his life because somehow, miraculously, he knew there was a PKM on the other side of this wall. And the machine gun fire ripped the door to shreds. We'll stop there for a second. So do you remember Tim Kennedy and Mike Goble being the only two Guys up there to clear this compound.

[Travis Warlock]

So I had.

[Brent Tucker]

And Mike having a sixth sense of.

[Travis Warlock]

Right. I called several people on the team that was there at the time. I came up later with the RG or Kevin, and I rolled up later, they were already taking fire.

[Brent Tucker]

Who called you up? Do you remember?

[Travis Warlock]

You know, I think it was the team sergeant.

[Brent Tucker]

The team sergeant.

[Travis Warlock]

I think it was the team sergeant. And am I right, Kevin? Do you remember that? You were listening to everything on the net. The same thing I was hearing. And we just. We started headed that direction, found them. I just. The memory's blurry now and. But I remember them saying they were taking fire from the rooftop.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

So they ran up next to the wall to, you know, to shield from it. Yeah, I looked at the pictures. I had several of them. I don't see a secondary gate. Secondly, Mike Goble was manning a turret in another gmv. Why would he have gotten out off that main gun, out of the turret to run down there by the wall? So a couple.

[Brent Tucker]

That would be another abandoning your post. Right.

[Travis Warlock]

And I can't see Goble doing that. He was just. He was a. He was. He was leaning forward in the foxhole always. That guy was amazing.

[Brent Tucker]

Now, Matt, at this point of. Of the convoy, you're in the vehicle with the team sergeant, Is that. Is that correct?

[Matt Jenkins]

Yes, I was with the team sergeant, Mike Goble and that gmv.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay, what, what do you remember about this part? Did, Did. Do you remember seeing Mike Goble and Tim Kennedy, two guys taking machine gun fire? Just two guys up along the wall?

[Matt Jenkins]

Like I remember like, you know, some guys going up to clear it and whatnot. And where we getting fire from the compound? Yes. Was it coming from the door, the roof? I'm really not sure.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. Was it. Was it. Was it half the team? Was it four guys? Was it. Was it just two guys? Take. Taking that fire. Does. Does anyone remember who. Who was on that wall?

[Travis Warlock]

Hey, Matt, if I've got it wrong, man, just we. You and I haven't talked about this. So if my memories. You got a better memory of this? I don't. It's no bad on me, man. If you correct me.

[Matt Jenkins]

Copy that. Yeah. Mike did get out of the truck and was up there and I actually got in the turret while he was up there.

[Travis Warlock]

Okay, good.

[Matt Jenkins]

Because I remember like, which is right.

[Brent Tucker]

He'D have left the gun, but he had made sure someone else was on.

[Travis Warlock]

That would make sense. Yeah.

[Matt Jenkins]

Yes.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah.

[Matt Jenkins]

Because I was in the trunk and I wasn't facing, you know, where we were getting fired from.

[Brent Tucker]

But do you remember how many people were on the wall receiving fire?

[Matt Jenkins]

Was this, like, before or after, like, you drove the RG through the door?

[Brent Tucker]

Before? Yeah, yeah, this would. This would have been before. Because if Mike. Because if Mike would have got. Got out of the truck and I'm not trying to lead you. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just asking, you know, I'm putting two and two together, you know? You know, in real time. That means only Tim would have been against the wall, getting ready to, you know, to go in as a. As a singleton, which would have basically never happened. And. But that would have explained why Mike, you know, needed to go be with him. But that would make a lot of sense that he would have had to go plus up a, you know, a singleton out, you know, up against a wall.

[Matt Jenkins]

Yeah, I do remember, like, the. The man door and that there was two guys there. So I know one of them was Mike. I'm not 100 certain who. Who's the second one?

[Brent Tucker]

Right. You remember seeing that guy get pushed on the ground?

[Matt Jenkins]

I do not recall that.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay. All right. And then what. What called you up to ram the gate?

[Travis Warlock]

We were moving the RG up to it because we could just. I mean, you didn't. Like we talked about before, the GMVs were open in the back. That was always our concern is the two. The two. The half. The team that were in those two GMVs just scared the hell out of me the whole time.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

And so we just. We went up there, and that's the last thing I'd heard is we're taking fire from the gate. And so I'm expecting the worst on the other side of this thing.

[Brent Tucker]

Do you remember who's calling that we're taking fire from the gate?

[Travis Warlock]

I thought it was the team sergeant. I remember it being the team sergeant saying, we're taking fire from the rooftop. I don't know if he said, hey, we need some help, or whatever, but we just moved to the direct to the sound of gunfire. Right.

[Brent Tucker]

Did the team sergeant ever get out of the vehicle?

[Kevin Wolf]

I. I don't think he would have. He'd be driving, I believe.

[Travis Warlock]

That's right.

[Matt Jenkins]

We. We were stationary. And he was, like, right next to the truck. He wasn't far from the truck at all.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Did he. Did he move up to that. Can you remember? Do you remember him moving up to the wall, or do you stay with the truck?

[Matt Jenkins]

He stayed with the truck.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay, and then what. What. What pushed you to. To ram the gate? That calls like, hey, we need help. And then.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

So how could you tell what, what. What compound needed help?

[Travis Warlock]

Well, I saw the. I saw the GMV there and I saw the guys on the wall.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

Right next to the two. The double gate.

[Brent Tucker]

All right. I'm just trying to get the bottom of this because no one's really said it, so I'm not looking for it. So you said you saw guys against. Well, how many guys you see against the wall? Was it two? You just don't remember.

[Travis Warlock]

You know, if there would have been three there, it wouldn't surprise me.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

And came up and I was just inside the rg. You cannot hear gunfire, right? Everything's diesel's roaring. You got the comm suites going off. And it was like, you know what, man, let me just use some violence of action here and just start drilling this gate. And if nothing else, it's probably going to scare the hell out of them, which maybe that's what happened, maybe it didn't. But we just went ahead and breached the gate because the. There were some guys against the wall. They were. They appeared to be pinned from our perspective of the windshield. And do you.

[Brent Tucker]

Do you. Did. Did you guys take fire? Did the machine gun see the RG and swing your way?

[Travis Warlock]

I couldn't tell if we were getting. I couldn't tell in there. Had no idea. Kevin, do you remember us taking fire?

[Kevin Wolf]

They definitely noticed us coming through the wall. I'm sure that drew their attention, and I'm sure we exchanged fire and were fired on.

[Brent Tucker]

So one of, you know, one of the details of that and what. And what he says prompted him to be quick with the grenade is that you guys. The GMV was taking the, you know, direct fire from this machine gun now and getting chewed up. And he thought you guys were in danger and he had to do something right now because that machine gun was. This would have been. You would have been probably, I'm just guessing, 40, 30, 40, 50ft from anywhere in that, you know, of a. Of the building because the, the courtyards aren't usually that big. Right. So like, you'd have known if you were taking PKM's to the engine block and to the, to the windows.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah, I mean, we. We'd taken it before where we've gotten out and seen, you know, just the little sparkles in the glass, the rear glass. And I mean, those things are just. God, once you're inside of. Yeah, it's just you're. You're in a little vacuum almost. I never could. Could tell if we were ever getting right. You know, like, you see some of the stories of ping, ping, ping going off. I never heard that. Did you ever hear that stuff? Kevin hitting the. The vehicle? No, I never did that.

[Kevin Wolf]

In fact, most of the time we had to be told that we were.

[Travis Warlock]

Sure. Absolutely. Or the Afghan National Police would go bailing out of those hiluxes. And that's how we know I was taking fire.

[Brent Tucker]

What do you remember about the infamous grenade incident? So it doesn't seem like. Unless he thought it was some. Well, that wouldn't be true because in this particular. So let's rework this event. He says the GMV is getting chewed up and that's why he throws a grenade, you know, to save you guys. But that wasn't exactly how the grenade throw went.

[Travis Warlock]

No. I remember looking out once we knocked the gate down, backing up and looking at the guys on the wall to my left. And I was like, hey, is it good? Can I come out? Because I can't hear anything. Right. I don't remember it, but I'm assuming someone said yes, cool, come on out. I got out, joined the guys on the wall, and there's Tim. And he's looking right over the rubble. He's like, hey, I think I see a machine gun barrel or a gun barrel or something. He goes, should I throw a grenade? I'm like, yeah, let it fly.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. So he wasn't this grenade throwing machine juggernaut. Juggernaut that is the apex of violence, of action and just gets after it whenever he sees it.

[Kevin Wolf]

Right.

[Brent Tucker]

He actually asked for permission to throw a grenade.

[Matt Jenkins]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

From the same guy that he said he dressed down and called a. Is now the guy. He has to ask for permission to throw a grenade.

[Travis Warlock]

You connect the dots, man.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, right. Yeah, but of course, that's. That. That's not. He didn't write the truth in the book, so, you know, you wouldn't have been able to make those connections in the book because he didn't. He didn't. He didn't say it properly.

[Travis Warlock]

Very true.

[Brent Tucker]

Where does he throw the grenade from? Does he throw the grenade from that. From that walk in door that. That Matt remembers, or does he go over to where you guys made a. Punched a hole?

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah, that's right where he punched the hole. He was right off the front of the vehicle. The. Some of the rubble wall was almost coming down at 45 degrees.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay, so there's another reason we know he didn't throw it to save your guys's life. Not only. Not only because he asked you for permission, but he went to the same hole that you guys were right. Had made.

[Travis Warlock]

And I definitely remember there was no machine gun fire coming out of that compound at the time. None. Because I remember sticking my head around, looking across it. He's like, it's that window I saw. Saw a barrel or whatever. I'm like, yeah, throw it.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. And then what he. What he ends up doing is. Is. Is hurting a family. And. And then this is where it does. It gets just. I kind of use my words, right, because I don't want to sound, you know, unprofessional. It gets to a level of. I guess we'll just call it narcissism. I don't know what to call it. Where he, again, goes into great detail about hearing screams, stepping into a room, seeing a bloody mess, and, you know, and the. And the. The rounds on the. On the floor, and knowing that these bastards, you know, use these innocent people as a human shield, and he had to clear the building and. And walk into this mess that he created when. That's. That's not. That's not true. That's not how you guys got the family out. How'd you guys get the family out? Did Tim go in and. And clear it?

[Travis Warlock]

No. No. Well, I have no idea to go find it.

[Brent Tucker]

Did he go find the family?

[Travis Warlock]

No, no, no. They. We. So he threw the grenade. We both back behind the wall, hear the boom, Right. Look back, don't see anything. Not hearing any more machine gun fire. I hadn't heard any since I got out of the truck. And it's like we came back behind the wall, and for some reason, we looked again, and there's. The whole family had already come out. They're away from the building, out in the middle of the courtyard, and we can see this woman holding the child in her hands.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

And I think that's when I said on Tim's podcast there, the little video we made, I made the dumbest thing ever done in my life. And it was just an emotional decision to run out there and grab the child. It was. The wound was just horrible. I've never seen anything like it in my life.

[Brent Tucker]

So you were first American hands on that child?

[Travis Warlock]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

Not. Not. Not Tim Kennedy.

[Travis Warlock]

I don't think he ever touched.

[Brent Tucker]

Clearing. Not Tim Kennedy. Clearing. Clearing. A structure, you know, like a. You know, he describes it again, it's like, wow, we'd have never done this in a SIF team. It's just me and one guy clearing all the way to the screams and to the blood. That's not how it happened at all.

[Travis Warlock]

How crazy that would that be to do that? Anyway? Just insane, right?

[Brent Tucker]

When you have the manpower. So. And you guys were there, so why wouldn't you grab someone and say, hey, this is what we're doing. So this. Do you remember, Kevin? Do you remember what. What was the. What was the. The system on top of the RG? Was it a 40 mic mic or a. Or a 50 cal? Do you remember?

[Kevin Wolf]

So we had a 50 cal on Travis and I's vehicle, and the other RG had a 40 mic.

[Brent Tucker]

So did. Were you in the vehicle this whole time or did you come out after. With. With Travis? Do you remember?

[Kevin Wolf]

So I came out. I remember coming out when the family came out. I'm still, you know, in the vehicle, making sure if we had to maneuver the vehicle into a different position, if someone showed up or whatever, we would still be able to mobilize. But once. Once I saw the family come out, I was like, we need to render aid.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Kevin Wolf]

There was, if I'm remembering correctly, about half a dozen people came out.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, sure.

[Kevin Wolf]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah, you're right.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. He sent the pictures. Yeah, we saw the pictures and posted. Why post them again for. For this episode to show. So you would definitely remember this, I believe Kevin and his. In his book, he. He goes and gets the medic, who he calls the ginginator and gets them to start rendering aid to the kids. And he said the ginginator was on the 40 mic mic, and that's when he replaced the ginginator in the CROW system. That's when he saw the bad guys flee out of the back of the building. And it was his turn. It was his turn to get sweet justice for them, using them as a human shield. And he lit them up with the 40 mic mic and, you know, sent them both to Allah. Do you remember? Well, one, it wasn't a 40 mic mic. You guys had the 50 cal.

[Travis Warlock]

He had the medics wrong, too. It wasn't the Ginginator.

[Brent Tucker]

It was. It was. It was Dan. It was.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah. Dan was the medic in our. So he was gunning.

[Brent Tucker]

Do you. Do you remember, you know, Tim getting on the gun and start lighting the bad guys up? No.

[Kevin Wolf]

Also, after we went through the wall, the temperature of the situation came way down. It came way down. There was still some firefighting out in the distance because we had the other team with us from Anaconda, but the temperature came way down. We were walking around, obviously rendering aid. It was Not a high stress situation. So hearing mic. Mics go off. I, I don't remember that.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, well, it had been the. It would have been your vehicle. It would have been your vehicle at the 50 cal. Or it could have been the, the maybe you got the vehicle wrong. Etc. Yeah. And say, and you know, I don't want him to go, well, I got the vehicle wrong. You know, it was.

[Tyler]

That's what he did with the mic.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah, that's what he did with the mics. Say. No, it was the, it was the other vehicle that was parked right behind it. But it would have had to been in close vicinity and you would have heard the thumping of it, you would have heard the explosions of it, and you sure as hell would have heard the story of it. That said, yeah, I messed up when I hurt those kids, but don't worry, guys, I, I made up for it and killed the bad guys. You're a small team. You'd have known about it.

[Travis Warlock]

Absolutely.

[Kevin Wolf]

I'm sure you've seen the picture of Travis and Dan working on the child doing it on the steps of the rg. So if someone was three feet behind them laying waste, you'd notice. But which. That could have been a different story. But I, I don't recall.

[Brent Tucker]

We're going to get a little bit out of chronological order, but because, but we're going to stay with the little girl for a second because we didn't go into great detail about that on the, on, on our original podcast. He says, when you guys get to Anaconda, don't worry, we're going to come back to your actual entrance in Anaconda. When you guys get to Anaconda, he feels so unbelievably bad about just how, how messed up war can be. And it's. Again, it's another instance he uses to go on this rant about just how these, the. The tough decisions of war and how. And how war is just so messes with you. When he's on Jack Carr's podcast, Jack Carr is sitting there telling him, like, oh, man. Like this. You were so brave to be so honest about this and so open and how war really affected you and the things you had to deal with. And you know, he goes on and on, on both on podcasts and in this book about how he. The first thing he did was. Or one of the first things he did was go to the medic tent and hold that little girl until she fell asleep all night long.

[Tyler]

Six hours.

[Brent Tucker]

Six hours. Yeah. And his arms fell asleep and his Legs fell asleep. But he didn't have the, he didn't have the, you know, the courage to wake this little girl up because he did this. Travis, did that happen?

[Travis Warlock]

Not at all actually as soon as we got rolled through the gates of the firebase intercondo it wasn't long after that that we heard the inbound Blackhawk the medevac to take them. It was maybe an hour maybe. Kevin.

[Kevin Wolf]

Matt I remember the novelty of getting there and unloading stuff and the Blackhawk coming in almost simultaneously. Probably 45, 55 minutes later.

[Brent Tucker]

I can't even again I have a hard time verbalizing what I'm trying to say. Like to get into the mindset of someone who will go into such great detail of holding a little girl all night long only for it never to have happened because the medevac bird came in and grabbed this little girl almost immediately. Which goes back to our, you know, our, our prior stories. The medevac will absolute. If they'll come rolling in for an injured civilian you better believe they're going to come rolling in for an, for an injured Afghan soldier.

[Travis Warlock]

Absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

It just, it's, it's mine. It's mind boggling and it's disturbing. It just is. Before we get into you guys rolling into the gates, Matt, do you ever remember seeing dozens upon dozens upon dozens and in several occasions of a wrecker coming up and just throwing broken down jingle trucks off the side of the mountain to clear a path?

[Matt Jenkins]

No, no, I only remember like one jingle truck. There might have been more but I only clearly remember one that like rolled off the crappy road that we were on.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. And it, and it roll us. You have a picture of that Travis, don't you?

[Travis Warlock]

Several.

[Brent Tucker]

And it was like, it was like a five foot mate like maybe kind of clips. It didn't like roll off the cliff and it sure sack didn't get thick. Thrown off the cliff by a record.

[Matt Jenkins]

Yeah, more like just kind of thing.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Flopped over on the shoulder of the road. So just, just want to make sure again it's a very small point but it's a needless point. It's a needless thing to say and if we'd have gone with, with Tim's story again it makes you guys look very unprepared. He says Tyler do you remember the exact number of, of trucks? Roughly 80 of that's what he said that that made it to anaconda 20 something. I want to say 30.

[Travis Warlock]

He said 30.

[Tyler]

He said it had to have been over 100.

[Brent Tucker]

That. Yeah. But so he says 30 trucks actually make it. If 30 trucks would have made it to Anaconda, that would have been a fail, an epic failure of a mission. Anaconda would not have been able to sustain themselves with 30 trucks. The Czechs wouldn't have been able to get up and running with only part of those trucks making it for them. And it would have continued to be a very dangerous, possibly dangerous aerial resupply mission of Blackhawks after Blackhawks after Blackhawks flying in. So the safest thing was that massive. There's an ironic statement, the safest thing was a 200 vehicle convoy up to Anaconda. So how many vehicles actually made it? Do you remember?

[Travis Warlock]

I think we lost in the Matrix. I had. I looked at. I think we lost 16.

[Brent Tucker]

What do you remember losing those trucks.

[Travis Warlock]

To the rollovers like Matt was talking about? We had several that just rolled over. I mean these roads were horrible. Which. There's no way you could get a wrecker up there to them to throw them off if you had to. It was just a single lane road the entire way, wasn't it? I mean, Matt, Kevin, I mean, it was never any more than a single lane donkey path for the most part.

[Brent Tucker]

So when the single road. So what do you do with a truck when it breaks down on a single road? Do you just tow it up to a place you can.

[Travis Warlock]

The wrecker was towing them for some time where. I don't know what that. We had a detachment or an attachment from hsc. We had a chief warrant officer, a mechanic is there. So I think he was bringing parts. And of course, you know, the Afghan truck drivers, they. Between all of them, my God, they could probably build a truck.

[Brent Tucker]

That's true. For as much as you can make fun of them for, you know, for, you know, we're talking about like, you know, and these Afghan trucks are. You aren't going to make it. Right. But they, but in a weird way, they kind of always do. Like they find a way to jerry rig those things back. Back to. If you give them enough time, they'll. They'll get it. So you guys do successfully bring. And that's. That's what. That's less than a. That's a. Around a 10% loss.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah. Just under it.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

Which is 10%.

[Brent Tucker]

Which is. Which.

[Travis Warlock]

I think it was all mechanical or driver error.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. That's what happened. And it was none of them because I hate to rehash some things. It wasn't because screwdrivers and radiators. It wasn't because. Because the the drivers ran out into the woods because they were scared. It wasn't because they were sabotaging the mission. The trucks just mechanically didn't make it. So you guys get to Anaconda, do you? And this is when I say a small team would know this story. I feel super confident asking this, this question. Just straightforward. You guys would have known if anybody in your element went up into a tower and sniped 20 dudes. And in 36, 48 hours, just up there is just a wrecking ball. Do you remember hearing reports that, man, your boy that you guys brought with you, Tim Kennedy, he's up there, he's up there doing the Lord's work.

[Travis Warlock]

You know, there was. Of the fire bases I was on for a couple of deployments. Never at any time or anyone was it commonplace for a security element to just randomly start firing from a tower without getting everybody up in arms. And especially, as you know, Tim alluded to that base had almost been overrun three times. So if you have a tower, someone's just cranking off rounds, it's going to get everybody's attention.

[Tyler]

R up.

[Travis Warlock]

Everybody.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Not again.

[Travis Warlock]

I mean, if I was just, you know, woke up and going to the latrine or something like that and heard a round or two going off, man, it would, the adrenaline dump would happen immediately.

[Brent Tucker]

Right, because everyone wants to run to a gunfight. It's what you guys train for. Like, it's, it's not necessarily a bad thing, necessarily. It's like a. Hey, like where, where do I need to be now? Let's. Exactly, it's on. Let's do this.

[Travis Warlock]

Absolutely, Absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

Kevin, do, do, do you remember Tim killing 20 people from the tower while you guys were there?

[Kevin Wolf]

No, I, I do remember the tower. I remember the camera. I can't.

[Brent Tucker]

We called it, but it was called something else at times.

[Kevin Wolf]

I, I remember, I remember all of what Travis just said and, and this would be drawing all the attention of three ODAs there. It would not only be, you know, the novelty, but people would be running to join the fight, whatever it might be.

[Brent Tucker]

This would single handedly make him a legend at the sodic committee. And this story would be told every class of a Green Beret that went up there and killed 20 guys with a sniper weapon in essentially, you know, one, one, one period. It's just, it's one of the most outlandish of the outlandish, which is hard to do with in this book. It's hard to pick. It's hard to pick.

[Travis Warlock]

Mike Goble would have been Just he was the kind of guy, if that would have happened, man, he couldn't have stopped talking about it. We would have heard that over and over again.

[Brent Tucker]

The other thing, again, I don't think he intentionally does it, but he doesn't know what the consequences of certain statements are, which is this. He said he had to do this and he had the ability to get all these kills because that ODA didn't have a sniper and this place desperately needed one. We were lucky enough to, you know, to do a podcast that we already said ran rampant across the SF community and guys from that base reached out to us and said, nope, that absolutely never happened. It was our base, we know that. And oh, by the way, we had snipers at that base. So for Tim to say that there were no snipers at that base and that's why it was such a target rich environment is just absolutely a lie.

[Travis Warlock]

I talked to the team sergeant, I got in touch with him and I asked him about it and he was like, first of all, Americans didn't go in those towers. That was the, what we call them, asf.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, Afghan Security Force. I think so, yeah, Afghan Security.

[Travis Warlock]

He said they were too dangerous to be up in. So he goes. But while he was telling me, he's like, man, if that would have happened, I would have known about it immediately. Somebody engaging, you know, well, if from those towers.

[Brent Tucker]

Not to make light of it, because it sounds like I'm going to, but I'm not. This is serious. This is a serious comment. The guy says that he has a valor award for every deployment he was ever on. And if you think for a second he goes up and single handedly takes out nine guys in a mud hut with grenades and then, you know, and then leaves him to, leaves him to rest. If he goes up into a tower and kills, you know, snipes 20 guys, like these are valorous actions. You would have the valor rewards that you claim you have, but you don't have any valor wards. And I'm not knocking him for not having valor wards. That's not what it's about. It's about saying that you have them. It's about saying that you have so many of them that you got one every deployment and that you don't. That is stolen valor. That is textbook stolen valor especially. And that's every one of these instances we're actually talking about is stolen valor and, and probably would have gotten you a, a valor medal if any of these things were true. But it just, it just didn't. It just didn't happen. We'll, we'll, we'll keep pushing right now. And if you guys didn't see it, didn't see it. You know, I only want, I only want the truth. But he says he has to get rid of his uniforms and essentially burn them because they're just covered and drenched in blood and guts. You know, from the convoy and from the legless soldier, that he's like, that uniform's garbage. Do you guys on the way up here to Anaconda ever remember seeing that and just, you know, you were in the truck with him, you know, Matt, did you ever look at him like, my God, what happened to you, Tim? You're covered in blood and guts.

[Matt Jenkins]

No, he definitely didn't look like he walked out of a horror movie.

[Brent Tucker]

And, and you were, and, and you were there. Like you would know. You were in the truck with him. You know, at some point you guys are getting together to, you know, during this trek up. Oh, this is nothing. That absolutely surprised me. I think I was talking to you after the podcast. How long did it take for you guys to make it to Anaconda? This one blew my mind. Or if you remember, the whole duration of the mission.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah. So once I looked on the vignette, it was 18 days total.

[Brent Tucker]

18 days. And this isn't a hit on the books. There's plenty of things to hit on. It sounded like it was a couple days up, a couple days, you know, on Anaconda and a couple days back. He never says the total amount of times. That's just, you know, an opinion basis, just, you know, by reading it. But when you find an 18 day mission, this actually reminded me that kind of drives home the point. For 18 days, you would have seen Tim over and over and over again. Like you would have got together, you know, during security halts, you would have got together during briefings, you would have got together during cross loading of, you know, of rolled over vehicles. You'd have seen them time and time and time again, you know, during clearing buildings. You would have seen him so many times drenched in and blood in his kit. Yeah, and you can change the uniform all you want, but you still got the same kit, that body armor stays with you the whole time. So you would have, you would have seen that. Like that's something pretty unique that that happens. And what is, you know, I believe would have stuck out in your minds. But no one has a, no one has a different story than, than. No, he was, you know, he's probably, he's probably pretty dusty but blood and gore is probably, well, not a good description.

[Tyler]

The picture. The picture, that's right.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, I know.

[Tyler]

Well, we haven't gotten to that village yet, right?

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. But, yeah, we do have pictures, you know, of them, you know, during this convoy.

[Matt Jenkins]

So.

[Brent Tucker]

You guys, you guys. Yeah, yeah. What you got, Kim?

[Kevin Wolf]

I was going to say Travis may have shared it. Maybe it's the picture Tyler was just talking about, but there's a picture of him in his DCUS from the same day we were at the compound and got back to Anaconda.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, it's. And we know he can't say, well, that was the ones I changed it into because. Which ones did he change into? Do you remember? Because we talked about it.

[Tyler]

Yeah, he changed the ACS.

[Brent Tucker]

He changed into ACUs. And what he said. What do you talk about? ACUs. What do you say? Them.

[Tyler]

He said the biggest lie in the book.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. He said ACU's one of the best uniforms the army ever did.

[Tyler]

Nobody in the army ever said.

[Brent Tucker]

I was like, what? No one ever. No one ever liked the acus from, From. From the get go. They were the worst uniform. Like, you know, the DCU's was. Was the. Was the uniform for Afghanistan. The multicams were. Were good. But, man, the ACUs were an atrocious uniform to go in any environment. Is there anything you guys want to. Before we move, give it. Give you guys a chance? Is there anything that I didn't cover, you know, so far that you wanted to cover or anything particular in Anaconda?

[Travis Warlock]

I can't think of anything like we. The highlights, for sure.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, the back half of this is, you know, goes a lot quicker than the front half. But there's still, still a couple things to be said. The owl. I'll go back just to mention it, you know, when you guys. I'll go out of order. But I just remember this one. When you guys left that village where you hurt the. The family.

[Travis Warlock]

Okay.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, that's the part in the book where Tim's like, hey, it's. It's go time. Like, we're killing everyone. If you're. If you're. If you look at us the wrong way, you're getting it. If you're a fighting age male, you're getting it. He just, you know, goes on and on about, you know, you guys basically are tired of, of playing defense and you're going to go into offense and just give it to them, which goes back to, well, that's a war crime, and that's not what SF does. And that's really. And you've mentioned this before in the podcast. We mentioned it in our podcast too, because, you know, that's not something you do in someone else's backyard as well, because they're the ones that are going to have to deal with the, the fallout of you shooting a bunch of unarmed men in that movie.

[Travis Warlock]

There's a collateral effect to this too. And when SF is operating on battlefields, we're always in someone else's battle space, the big army. And when you paint these pictures of us, these just tyrants running around, just slaying people covered in blood and guts, oh man, that presents such a huge complication for the command when you've got to work with these adjacent units to your left and your right in their, truly their battle space, just trying to operate within it.

[Brent Tucker]

And this goes back to a bigger question because we're talking about it right now. So I'll bring it up. You know, that's another. And that's a blatant war crime. That's a blatant one. And who approved this book? Like, I still haven't got to answer that.

[Tyler]

Well, other than going to prison before for something he didn't even do.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you'll go to prison for something you didn't even do. You shouldn't have lied about that. The, you know, the DOD didn't approve this book. How do you write a book? He's still a Green Beret.

[Tyler]

Well, I wanted to ask you, is that, is there any updates on the army taking action on this?

[Brent Tucker]

The they. I do know for a fact it's gone up to a USASAK level and there are a lot of Green Berets that are still current active duty. And now these guys are battalion sergeant major, command sergeant majors. They're, they're high ranking people and they're very upset about this. They want to pull his tab as they. And you know, again, that's not me being vindictive about it. If you're going to write this type of book with these amount of lies and you're going to have stolen valor, you're going to say you got injured when you didn't. And you say, you know, you should have Purple Hearts when you don't, valor medals when you don't, admitting to war crimes that you didn't even do. It's not just the book. You also did this on podcast, the largest podcast in America. You did this on the Joe Rogan Experience. You did this on Jockos, you did this on Sean Ryan you did this. So it's amazing to me, honestly, that he still has this tab. Travis, no.

[Travis Warlock]

You know, you gotta almost wonder when.

[Brent Tucker]

You were still in, had you written this book and went on podcast, you think you'd still have your green Beret?

[Travis Warlock]

You know, I would have been. Probably been in jail. Absolutely would have been a jail, sure.

[Brent Tucker]

Kevin, what's like on that particular subject? Like, what's, what's your take on that?

[Kevin Wolf]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I agree. And, you know, in preparation for this podcast, I told my wife about this convoy and she. She had no idea what I was talking about. SF is full of quiet professionals, so writing a book never crossed my mind.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. Yeah. And not to get off topic of the storyline, but it just fits. During this narrative, I'm completely taken back to some degree. Two things. One, as we said it time and time again, the amount of people who didn't read this book, the only people who could have truly combated this book never read the book. So they wouldn't even know how upset to be about this book. But when we did the podcast, and we were the first ones to do a full, like, true deep dive kind of, you know, expose podcast on this, you never know if anyone's going to come in your corner or not. And the amount of other social media, green Beret platforms and podcasters, like, really, really rallied behind this. And we're like, you know what, what the anti hero just did was crazy. And we. And we have to talk about it in the community. It caught. It caught like wildfire.

[Tyler]

Except for that. That old man, he's a marine who breaks down videos. And he goes, he goes, what do you think about that? What do you think about that? Travis said this.

[Travis Warlock]

I can't think.

[Brent Tucker]

His name.

[Tyler]

He got our names wrong. Power move, by the way. Yeah, he bought your name wrong and he didn't even know my name.

[Brent Tucker]

I can't think of his. I know exactly you're talking about.

[Tyler]

Then he went on embarrassing.

[Brent Tucker]

He has like a million followers.

[Tyler]

He went on JT's podcast this time for Pie. I haven't watched that.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Tyler]

Yet, but that was pretty recent.

[Brent Tucker]

But. Yeah, well, and. And the thing is. And this is where he gets back and this is so important, you know, I can't thank you guys enough is that he. He broke down our original podcast was like, this is pretty damning. And then, you know, he broke down your interview with him and he's like, well, he's kind of bringing receipts. But it goes back to the only receipts he brought were. Was him circling the wagon and, you know, rehashing things that did happen. He never addressed anything that didn't happen. That's not bringing receipts. Like, he didn't address anything that, that we brought up, you know, and so he. This is bringing receipts. You know, three guys that were there that are fed up enough about it to say, hey, like, true, let's. We will. We will correct the record. And this is bringing receipts. And I truly cannot thank you guys enough for doing this.

[Travis Warlock]

It needed to be done. It really needed to be.

[Brent Tucker]

It's long overdue, honestly. Yeah, to a point. The thing that we were the first, you know, pod. Well, the first podcast to question Tim by any means, but we were the first ones to really do what we did. And I can't believe it lasted that long, to be honest with you.

[Tyler]

The only naysayers, the only people that didn't agree are the ones that said, even if he's lying, I still support him. There are people that say, I don't care if he's lying. And you're not going to change those minds.

[Brent Tucker]

Well, having people that were there, you know, will definitely help. There's still a lot of people on the fence that were like, well, it's kind of a he said, she said thing. Like, they said they talked to the teammates. But, you know, how do we know that? And I hate to say that it's a. It's a valid question. You know, I don't. I'm not even, you know, necessarily mad at that, at that question. As, as we come back, you know, into the. Into the convoy, getting home. There's only a few major things that. But they're very.

[Travis Warlock]

Let me just make one comment. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

I've talked to track down every team member on 7131 except for two guys as Irish Mike and Horus. The other 18 echo haven't been able to track them down. Everybody is so frustrated at this account of the convoy. Not that anybody was looking for credit, but it was just like, you know, it was almost sitting in its perfect form where no one saw it, no one knew about it. At least with the team. It was just. It was amazing what we pulled off. Truly the impossible. Yeah, it was the most. It was the most ridiculous ambition you could ever imagine.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, I'd be hard pressed. I'm interested now. Like, I want you to sock to look into this. Name me a bigger convoy that, that, that Odas were. Were asked to deliver. And I don't know if you could find one.

[Travis Warlock]

There is, if you don't mind. Me just giving some prompts to. There's a couple Jamie and Scott Headley that work for the ARM Lifestyle magazine and they reached out to all of us and they're writing the true account of what happened.

[Brent Tucker]

Oh, so they found you. Yeah, it seems like everybody can find you guys except, except Tim Kennedy.

[Tyler]

Well, they said they did.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Tyler]

Fair. They said they talked to their team.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, and, you know, and he even said, you know, on his rebuttal that were lies. He's like, I reached out to, you know, to the, they didn't talk to any of my teammates or any of my friends. Like, that's, you know, it's just, it's complete fabrication when that, it's just not true. You know, Again, all you guys have already said there are people on this podcast that, that couldn't make it, but you have talked to all those guys as your teammates and there's not a single person going, no, they're just haters. You know, that's the, you know, the. Tim's book is correct. They're, they're, they're, they're just being haters and trying to tear down a fellow veteran. So, I mean, if, if someone's looking for receipts, I don't know how to get more than that.

[Tyler]

The tear down thing is something that people say when they're financially tied into Tim Kennedy and they have to say something. They say, we don't tear down people to, to. We have to build things. So the tear down thing is, is essentially a go to.

[Travis Warlock]

After you had the first podcast, I was talking with, with him, obviously came out to the range. I was begging him to come on here. I was like, Tim, you know, you're going to be the first person that they targeted for the most part for justifiable reasons, but just to man, be man up and come on here and just explain it.

[Tyler]

What'd he say?

[Travis Warlock]

Face the music now. He wouldn't do it. He said, nah, if I come on there, it's going to bring them more of an audience. If I come on there, that's all this is about. I was like, tim, it's not, man. Man, they've got, I mean, they've. I'll be honest with you. When I was first talking with Tim, after you spoke with me and we went through a lot of this stuff chronologically to build up to the 101, I was in such a selfish mindset because I was just concerned about recovering this whole state that he called me a pussy in the book, that I was letting everything else off. To the peripheral.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Travis Warlock]

But it's pretty.

[Brent Tucker]

It's a pretty personal attack. May I understand why you focus in on that? It's no one else, to be fair. No one else got attacked like, like that as personally as you did Kevin Keys. Not even close to it.

[Travis Warlock]

Right.

[Brent Tucker]

But you know, Kevin, he talked about Kevin like he was a junior, you know, officer that didn't have very much combat experience. And that couldn't be any further from the truth either.

[Travis Warlock]

And, you know, but at least in some way I understand it. Writing a fiction book. It's sanctimonious. Right? It's what it is. And having been an nco, I got it. There is always going to be that healthy debate between NCO and officers. And that's what I saw it as. But I'm like, dude, man, you just can't go out there and say something like that. I understand that. You know, the rubbing. You know, rubbing up against each other and keeping just a healthy replacement poor going. Right.

[Brent Tucker]

But the problem is there's plenty, man. And there are. There are plenty of real instances you could have found or use. Sure. Officers are just like in enlisted. They're people. And you're gonna have good ones and you're gonna have bad ones. The unfortunate thing about officers, when you have bad ones, they're in charge. So.

[Tyler]

So it's a lot.

[Brent Tucker]

It's a lot easier to be really mad at them because they, because you have to do it. They. Yeah. The day what. What they say.

[Travis Warlock]

True.

[Brent Tucker]

You can get mad at your, at your senior Bravo all day, but end of the day, he doesn't really run the oda. So, you know, so the truth is that stuff does happen. Unfortunately, there are politically driven officers out there. He just picked the wrong one to try to make an example of because all the teammates not, not to sit here and, you know, and, you know, blow smoke up yet. But I did. Well, that's not true. I don't even know if I had to ask. Every single one of them had nothing but good things to say about you.

[Travis Warlock]

It was. You know, being an officer in Special Forces is truly the easiest position for any officer. It should be because you have the most competent NCOs. It is just unbelievable. The selection process, the training. It procures the most amazing soldier on the battlefield field.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Travis Warlock]

Is the easiest job in the world to be an 18 alpha. Yeah, absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

So the. We'll, We'll. We'll finish this thing up by. On its way back. This is just a unique, again, just needless lie. It goes Back again to. To etiquette in someone else's space. You know, he talks about, like, as soon as you guys leave the gate that, you know, he knows troubles are brewing because he sees the. This fighting age male, little bit older, but military age male guy, mean muggin, has a. Has a radio within arms distance, calls it out and takes a warning shot right above the guy's head. And the guy doesn't even flinch. Just stares back at him. He's like, oh, like, we're okay. We're. We're still in it. But that is not something you would do in someone else's. In someone else's battle space. And I can't remember who. Which teammate I talked to. One of the teammates is like, yes, I remember that happening. Mike Goble made a call about that, but I don't remember anyone shooting over it. And I don't know if you guys remember. You even remember that. That call coming, the radio, or someone taking warning shots at people as soon as you left the wire?

[Travis Warlock]

I remember the call, but I don't remember the shot. Yeah, but as some other teammates say said that a shot was.

[Brent Tucker]

No, no, no one remembers the shot. They. They remember the call, and they thought Mike maybe that's what I was confused on, that they thought Mike made. Made. Made that call. And it's just interesting that whenever something unique happens, usually Mike Goble's involved.

[Travis Warlock]

Oh, yeah, I get you. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And that's what really got me fired up. Like, when. When you're all alone against, you know, against a compound wall, it's Mike Goble that happens to be there when you're sniping 20 guys in a short amount of time. Mike Goble is the one who's there. And of course, you know, Travis, let. Let him. Let him know what's unique about that and why that fires me up.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah, that fired up everybody in the team, too. I mean, there's a few guys, if you would have had on this podcast who couldn't come because they're still active duty, they would have probably been flipping this table open over right now because.

[Brent Tucker]

My Goble is not with us anymore.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah, it is. It appears very. I mean, it really appears that that's what he was doing, was just being advantageous of a fallen comrade. Sure enough to expand a story, which, you know, there was no checks and balances, and he's.

[Brent Tucker]

He's done it. And I'll say, I think maybe for the first time about Sodic. And what really fires me up about it is he's done this Three times now. He did it with Mike Goble. He did it with Sergeant Major Fernandez from the SIF in his rebuttal video saying, he told me that I could fail Sodic. That's right. Yeah. Well, Sergeant Major Fernandez is no longer with us, so it's really convenient again that you picked a dead guy to be your sole witness. Which is also crazy because we know you didn't intentionally fail the shoot in for Sodic because you have teammates that went on that video and on the comments. And I say teammates like sodic teammates.

[Travis Warlock]

Right?

[Brent Tucker]

And said, tim, I was at sodic with you when you failed. You failed. You failed the very first unknown shoot. That was like two to three weeks inside the course. Don't use, you know, a dead sergeant major to be your sole witness because we were there. We were there with you. We know you did it. And the third time he did it was in his book when he. He says a guy quit sodic. His. His teammate, his. His. His partner, his sniper partner in the schoolhouse quits in the middle of the stalking lane, gets up and the. And the instructor is like, well, I guess. I guess you failed Sodic, you know, because he's like, I didn't quit. My teammate quit. And before his teammate quits in his book, he's like, the reason why this guy quit is because he wasn't like me. He didn't have the drive. He didn't have the ambition. He didn't have the focus. He didn't have what it takes to be a sniper. And as a Sodic graduate, Sodic isn't that hard of a school. It's kind of a gentleman's school. Like, it's not a hard school. The standards can be hard, but no one quits over stress. And so of course I wanted to look that guy up and talk to him. Why do you think I couldn't talk to him, Travis?

[Travis Warlock]

He was dead.

[Brent Tucker]

He's also dead. This is the third time that he's done this. And if that doesn't drive Green Berets crazy, and if that doesn't get your tab pulled. As if stolen valor wasn't enough. I don't. That one really, really gets me. So we're going down the convoy at some point. Really the next big thing in the book is, is the tick you guys get into and some A10s come in and save your ass on some danger close air support. I'll have you walk us through that. What happened?

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah, so we're leaving the fire base. The day or two before we tried to Provide or pull off a feint. Where we started, we had everybody kind of saddle up and we took all the ODAs out and we just kind of moved to contact back down the route we came. That's the way the battalion initially wanted us to go. But I think everybody was pretty clear come hell or high water. We're not going back through Chacozo Pass.

[Brent Tucker]

Only once.

[Travis Warlock]

Right. So we had some, you know, local intel that there was this pathway, you know, come out of Anaconda and take a left instead of going back that we think the trucks could make it, but we're not sure.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay, but you had to try.

[Travis Warlock]

Had to try, yeah. And so we, we hook left coming out. The day or two before we went out, moved to contact.

[Brent Tucker]

Because you're not hiding this. It's a two. Well, it's well on the way up. It's a 200 vehicle convoy. There's just no hiding it, you know, no way. What are you guys on the, on the way back, do you, do you remember taking a little bit less.

[Travis Warlock]

The, the cargo trucks were with us. We dropped off checks off Afghan National Army.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. They're just unloaded now. But you have. It's still a massive convoy.

[Travis Warlock]

Oh, absolutely. All the trucks are coming back.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, we're talking miles long. Like how long does this convoy stretch for?

[Travis Warlock]

Well, every now and then, Kevin, remind me, we would look at the Blue Force tracker and see the rear oda and just with the accordion effect going up and down the hills or something breaking down. We probably stretched it out a couple of miles. Sometimes I'm just, just a shot in the dark. What would you think, Kevin?

[Kevin Wolf]

Oh, yeah, I remember when we left Anaconda and, and the start of the trip, we would say we were leaving and the last truck would let us know when they were moving. He beat maybe 45 minutes later. So there.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah. There's no hiding it. There ain't nothing you can do.

[Travis Warlock]

So that was probably one of the most amazing close air support encounters we had in that mission. One, I've never had anything like it happen to me before. It's like I was telling you before on the phone, there's three types of cast, right?

[Brent Tucker]

That's right.

[Travis Warlock]

It's pre planned. There's own call and there is divine intervention. And to understand how those A10s came over to us, it was just as I was talking to Matt, the jtac, he told me that they were up in the air and I think battalion had stopped all operations just so they. In case they were expecting the Worst just.

[Brent Tucker]

They could push assets to you.

[Travis Warlock]

They could push assets to us.

[Brent Tucker]

Yep.

[Travis Warlock]

Couple A10s were in the area. And I guess they heard the only thing making any noise on the satcom was us.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

Getting ready to leave out. So my understanding is the lead pilot said, hey, let's just go see what's going on. Nothing else is happening. They come into the. The airspace and he checks in with Matt, the jtac. And they just kind of do a handshake. Hey, you, this is me. And as he's coming around, he looks down and sees there's just rows of fighters on each side of us.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

And he's screaming. From my understanding, he's just screaming for the jtac, saying, give me the commander's initials. They are right on top of you. And I had talked to the JTAC previously. I'm like, look, man, if we get into it, for the love of God, do not try to call me on the radio and ask for my damn initials. They are tsw. If it looks that bad, immediately just send that to the pilot. We'll deal with the aftermath later. And that's what he did. I mean, he made the call, he made a good call, and he gave them my initials. And I mean, all of a sudden it was just. We came out. I remember Kevin, remember that little smoke trail went across the hood of an rpg. It blew up on the wall next to us. The Afghans in front of us are bailing out of their hiluxes, so we know we're in it, Right. And almost immediately, it was like. Only thing I could imagine is like a cheap mattress in a hotel room you put quarters in to have it vibrate.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

That 40,000 pound vehicle just. And I'm like, what the hell is this?

[Brent Tucker]

Like an earthquake?

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah. And on the left side of us, above this high mud wall is a spew of sand.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

You can almost imagine seeing stuff, videos from the Navy, you know, shooting 50 cows in the water. Shows the spray. Yeah, yeah, that's what I have. Just this massive dust tail comes up and I'm looking over the hood of the vehicle and Here comes a. A 10. It goes up and he kind of stalls, rolls back and comes down the other side of the convoy.

[Brent Tucker]

So badass.

[Travis Warlock]

And I mean, it was just. It happened so fast. When I said divine intervention, there's nothing else you could account it for? Yeah, nothing. It's unreal.

[Brent Tucker]

Those guys up there just. Just killing massive amounts of enemy and never missing a meal or a workout. No, I'm not jealous. I'm not jealous at all.

[Travis Warlock]

But this is a point where Tim's said he was jumping out and running up through some windows, tossing grenades. But we were so buttoned up. I mean, had you run out of the, out of any vehicle left or right? I mean, how far were the, how far was that cast coming in? It was 20ft from us.

[Kevin Wolf]

Oh, yeah. And as you said, the walls were shoulder height, so not anywhere to go from there.

[Brent Tucker]

Nowhere to go and nothing to do.

[Kevin Wolf]

Right, right. You know, and the vehicles were in the perfect position. Right. Height, had a good line of fire. Why would you get out of the vehicle?

[Brent Tucker]

Right, that's, that's actually a really good point. What you needed the height of the vehicle to, to even see anything over the wall. Why would you come down to ground level and not be able to see anything over that wall? And it goes back to kind of what he said. Now, some of the Afghans dismounted, but that's what an untrained force does. They get out with no plan and expose themselves. That's not what a special forces soldier does.

[Travis Warlock]

Had Tim run off left or right of that convoy, he would have been mowed down by that a 10 fire. And that's where Dano, we think, pretty sure just got some. The only person injured had a little flak through his hand.

[Brent Tucker]

Well, he wasn't the only person injured according to, to Tim Kennedy's book. I don't know if you guys knew this, but at this point, Tim's, Tim's on his deathbed. He takes shrapnel to his neck, his shoulders, his back, his arms. You know, one was, what do you say, centimeters away. From his corted artery? Yeah, from his corotid artery. And again, Mike Goble is begging him to get on the bird with Dan or one to see the medic and to. And to get on the bird with. With Dan. And Tim says, you know, basically in his book says, hey dude, I'm. I'm the baddest dude here. And there's not a single person that can force me on that bird. I came in with you guys and I'm leaving with you guys. And Mike says he goes, he's so concerned about his, his injuries that he goes up to, to the medicine and says, hey man, you need to, you need to look at Tim. He's hurt pretty bad and he's, and he's not getting on the bird. You guys, you guys remember, you guys, I'm sure you, you remember seeing all that.

[Kevin Wolf]

I, I have no recollection of This. I remember seeing him at times throughout the rest of the mission. I don't recall any injury to his neck. And the medic in our vehicle never, never mentioned him.

[Travis Warlock]

The, the medic that he talks about in the book.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Travis Warlock]

Called him yesterday.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

And said, hey, man, I'm coming on the show now. He wants nothing to do with this whatsoever. He's still active duty.

[Brent Tucker]

He's still active duty, right? Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

So we had two medics. I'm just gonna say it was one of the two of them for his anonymity. So he said there was absolutely. He does has no recollection of that whatsoever. None. And you know, Tim also said there was body bags being put in the Blackhawk. Dano, who was hurt. We were. I was right there at the, at the Blackhawk. We were putting him on there. And now it's kind of like Tim took Dano's story because Dano was telling me, he was actually asking me. He's like, hey, sir, can I stay? Can I stay? And I'm like, I just saw his hand bandaged up. I'm like, yeah, sure, I don't care. And I turned to the medic and I'm like, what do you think? He's like, he's got to get on there. I'm like, sorry, dude, you got to go. He's. This is the medical professional right here.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. And I hate to say it, what seems like an insignificant injury, you know, if it's deep enough, which it was. I blew a knuckle out, right? Yeah. It's not that he needs to get on the bird right now, like for life saving purposes now.

[Travis Warlock]

Right.

[Brent Tucker]

But you continue on for days in a dirty environment and let that thing get infected and, and then go septic, you will be fighting for, for your life.

[Travis Warlock]

Sure.

[Brent Tucker]

So it was absolutely the, the right call. It's one of those things as you get older, like you look at those things, you're like, that's right. That's. That's why you make those calls. Well, that was. That one. It. Tyler made a really good post about that because in his rebuttal he was like, well, if you look, if you look at my videos of me fighting and you know, and, and, and me throughout, you know, kind of history, if you look at all these brown spots on my neck and my shoulder and my back, like, that's what that's from, is, is my, is my injuries. And that's why I kind of joked around, you know, the purple hearts in the mail. And Tyler, you, you found a, A Was it a commercial he did for a wobby company? Yes.

[Tyler]

And he gets, he takes it off to get in a ice bath and it's his back and then he turns and it's those right side.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

And it's. There's, I mean obviously there's nothing there.

[Brent Tucker]

This is clean as can be. And I did go back, even though I knew the story, I still went back and looked at some old fights and to see if there's anything like that maybe happened that he can try to say that was it. It's. You were on TV with your shirt off a thousand times after that. And that's a story you want to go with. And don't think we can go, you know, check your story. It's insanity. On top of. He probably didn't think that his teammates would. He's betting that his teammates aren't going to go on and he, and he lost that bet. And that's another one that really gets me kind of going because you know, every, everyone who really laid it out there and ended up unfortunately getting hurt by the enemy and really earning that purple heart. To lie about that is a slap in the face of guys who were, who were injured in combat. To pretend like you were when you weren't, that's another, that's another massive stolen valor. And one of the things he said was, well, I was an attachment to you guys and basically like you guys didn't put him in for it or you know, didn't take care of him because he was just an attachment because it was you guys. Matt, I want to talk to you for a second. As a K9 handler, you were attached to the team as, as well, correct?

[Matt Jenkins]

Yes. Yeah, that's correct.

[Brent Tucker]

How do they, they, they take care of you?

[Matt Jenkins]

They, they. This team was so, you know, well oiled, worked together, they were professionals. They took care of me. I had a silly little pay issue after they made fun of me about it.

[Brent Tucker]

They took care of it on Brand.

[Matt Jenkins]

Yeah, they, they put me in for a cab and an award. Even the team sergeant when you know, you guys were getting ready to leave and I was going on my little two week vacation mid tour leave, he even took the time to help me and teach me a little bit on how to write an ncr. So they took care of me. Not just financially, awards, but you know, the team started trying to develop me as a leader too and give me some education.

[Brent Tucker]

So they were capable of putting you in forward as attachment, but apparently they were incapable of putting in a fellow Green Beret in In for water or taking care of him.

[Travis Warlock]

You should have been a prosecutor, brother.

[Brent Tucker]

It just, you know, it just. Well, it's. I. I wish I was that smart, but the. Like, this is. Like, this is child's play, you know, like, this isn't even hard to. To. To uncover. It's. It's that bad. The other. The. I guess the last one I really want to cover. And again, this one is. You probably should end on the Purple heart one because that'll. That should piss off everybody. If you're not mad by now, you should be mad at this one. And it's. It's the final village, and it's just a weird story at the. Basically the final village you guys go to, and everyone's friendly and there is a dead guy hanging from the tree. And it sounds like, you know, a scene out of 300 where this rotting corpse is there. And he goes up to the village elder. He's like, are there any. Any Taliban here? And he's like, nope. He's like, there's no Taliban here at all. He's like, well, there's one, and he's hanging from that tree. And. And then, you know, he talks about how he's so overwhelmed with all this emotion from all the murder and chaos and, you know, almost losing his life from the close. Air support is finally, like, all off his shoulders, and he starts weeping uncontrollably. And this is where he has this again, this, like, this human moment that he goes. Almost anytime he goes into great detail, he's lying, which is very unusual because usually when anyone goes into great detail, you're like, oh, well, that must have really happened.

[Tyler]

I looked into that, and that's actually what narcissists and liars do is they. They. They create all these details where you're like, well, they wouldn't make up all those details, and that's just their way to get, you know, a lie through.

[Brent Tucker]

And, you know, and that's where the girls come up and wash all the body parts that are. That are on him.

[Tyler]

This is where the picture was taken.

[Brent Tucker]

If I'm not saying, yeah, the very.

[Tyler]

End of the whole thing, he's in not. Not ripped up from, you know, gunfire or anything like that. Shrapnel. No blood.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, but. But in the book, like, little girls come up to him and. And wipe off all the blood and guts and body parts that are hanging off of his kit from. From the. From the close air support. It seems silly, but I got to ask it, because you guys were there. Do you Remember seeing Kevin? Do you remember seeing a dead guy hanging from a noose? 1. Do you remember this village that he's talking about?

[Kevin Wolf]

So I will say I do remember. I do remember a village that was just beautiful, super peaceful area, little kids coming out.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Kevin Wolf]

And he was correct in saying that this experience was overwhelming. I remember feeling that maybe, maybe this is what it is all for. The rest of Afghanistan could be like, I do not remember gallows. I do not remember kids coming out to wash the blood of our enemies off of us. I don't remember any of that. But I do remember this being, you know, surreal moment.

[Tyler]

It made Tim cry.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Did. And hey, and this is, this is, this is a personal question. Did, did you break down uncontrollably and cry, though?

[Kevin Wolf]

No, but I do remember having this feeling, hey, hey, maybe this is it making it, you know, all worth it.

[Brent Tucker]

Are you, are you dead inside?

[Kevin Wolf]

No, I, I didn't break down. Maybe just a little bit.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Kevin Wolf]

It was an experience of we've been fighting for the last couple weeks and crossing this valley and was just, it was an opportunity to exhale. I think maybe we're going to be all right.

[Brent Tucker]

But, you know, like I said, and I've said this at, at times too, like, this is a couple mile convoy. So unlike what Tim said, you know, he's like, you know, you know, there will be Jurassic stories. Any, you know, when you, when you, when you ask three guys, you get four different versions. I have never gotten a different version from any one of you or anyone else that I've talked to that didn't come on this podcast. I may have got a different perspective for someone that was at a different part of the convoy, but never when two people remembered the same incident. Never got a, you know, a different story. And so, you know, so, which is why, you know, I got to ask you, Matt, because maybe you were somewhere else in the village. Do you remember seeing a, a rotting dead corpse with the skin falling off of it hanging from a tree in that village? And then Tim getting washed clean from little Afghan girls, all the body parts that were still on him?

[Matt Jenkins]

No, No, I, I don't remember. I, you know, guys swinging from a tree or the local villagers giving us bass. So. No.

[Brent Tucker]

Do you? Did, did. I know it's going to sound bad, but it's just, it does make me laugh a little bit. Did you cry a little bit?

[Matt Jenkins]

I, I, I think Kevin said it best.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, but, yeah, that, but I mean, I get that, that, that feeling of, yeah, this is, this is this is what we're here for. We do feel like we've been putting our lives on the line this whole time. And for. For once in three weeks, I don't think I'm going to die here. And that's got to be. That's got to be. That's got to be a good feeling.

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

He was talking to the village elder at this time. Some tells me use a ground force commander and the team sergeant would have also been there because usually the KLE is just that key leader engagement.

[Travis Warlock]

He said he was talking to the village elder.

[Brent Tucker]

Yes. And you were a key leader and should have been there. Do you. Do you remember any of this? No.

[Travis Warlock]

That was. I think we ran. That village was in the Ghazni district. It was a Hazara village. And it was just like Kevin was saying, it was beautiful. We couldn't believe we were in Afghanistan. It was unbelievable. Certainly there was no talent. There's no one hanging from a tree that would have been just so out of place for this. I mean, you actually. The children running around were just. Everything was so clean. It was just. It was amazing. It seemed like every dwelling had a huge satellite dish on top of was modernized desert dwelling.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Travis Warlock]

And it was a lot of green zone in there. They were moving water around. It was just beautiful. So, no, I don't. There was none of that.

[Brent Tucker]

Well, after that, the final nail in the coffin to me, the Purple Heart, he finishes up in the book and says that he has to go look and get. You know, was told he has to go look at the medic down in. In. In Bog almost at Bagram and Kandahar where he was really based out of because he was a soft lno. And I'm certain his job was to stand up and give the last 24. Next 24 on the jock floor for. For the checks and outside this random like this is probably so excited to get because this is one of the few times he probably ever left the wire was to. To get out and. And do this with you guys might have been. Yeah, yeah. And so he said he had to go. You know, they. They told him he had to go look at the medic and to go to the med shed in Kandahar. The med shed in Kandahar, Absolutely. If you guys didn't take care of them, the med shed and Kandahar would have taken care of them.

[Travis Warlock]

Oh, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Green Berets don't. Don't take that any amount of shrapnel without giving Purple Hearts. We're not. And I do know there's sob stories of the infantry and there. You know, there's our sob stories in the military. They're far and few between. Yeah, I never heard of them, but, yeah, it's. It. I tell you, it's not the Green Berets. The Green Berets will give you a Purple Heart if you get injured 10 times out of 10 times. They take care of their own. Well, guys, that's. That's. That's what. Yeah, we wanted to rehash and rehash it with you guys on the ground. But I. I do have one last question that I'll ask you first, Matt, then I'll ask you. Kevin and Travis, you can take the final answer on this. But if you had something that you wanted to tell the American people about this book and the portrayal in this book or the. The embellishments of this book and, you know, and tell the American people something's like, hey, like, take it from me, some guy's in the ground. This is something you should know. What. What would you tell them?

[Matt Jenkins]

Yeah, I thought about this quite a bit and kind of short and sweet. This was an extraordinary mission on its own merits, by itself. And not everything needs to be made into a TV or movie.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. That's a common theme, for sure. There was. There was enough valor. There was enough. There was enough good things happening. There's. There was enough danger. They didn't have to make up more of it.

[Travis Warlock]

Plenty of it.

[Brent Tucker]

The. The true story was a. Was a good story, and I'm glad you guys are getting a chance and someone else is reaching out to you to tell it without having to interject all the Tim Kennedy embellishments to explain away. You can actually just tell the story right and how it goes. Kevin, what do you think about that question?

[Kevin Wolf]

Yeah, very similar to what Matt said. It was an amazing experience on its own, and one of the things that I really want to kind of rehash some of the things we talked about here. Some of the elements that were added by the embellishment made the teams seem far more inept or unprepared than they really were. A lot of the mission went as well and was a success because of the successful preparatory job that I got to participate in. Great people on the team. Our Bravos ensured we were prepared with ammo. Travis made sure we were headed in the right direction, had air cover. Everything was set up for success. It really wasn't a situation for a lot of those embellishments. To ever happen is we had a lot of the preparation in place.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, I had a teammate at the unit that. That summed it up for me, and I thought it was. I just thought it was really true. He's like. He's like, brent, you know, I don't have a Valor award. And I was like, man, that's kind of. That's kind of crazy. Like, he was in Ranger bat for four years, and he was. He was at the end of the surge with the unit and, you know, most a career in the gwot, and he goes, and you know what? We've always. Every team I've been a part of has been really good at planning and executing that plan or adjusting when that plan needed adjusting. And no one ever had to do anything valorous because we were prepared and we did it. Most time that valor awards are giving out is because someone screwed up and someone had to do something amazing to undo that. True. And you know what? He could, like, the. He couldn't have been any more right. Like, he's. It's not 100%, but, man, let me tell you. I don't know. Eight times out of ten, nine times out of ten. That's absolutely true.

[Kevin Wolf]

Sometimes boring means everyone did their job.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, absolutely. Travis, what do you got? We'll end on you, man.

[Travis Warlock]

The. For the American public, this is not how a Green Beret team operates. Even though we were in kind of sort of conventional infantry mounted mode doing that. The mindset and the Special Forces teams, the maturity level, we just don't go around throwing grenades at windows. We just. The embellishments are. I mean, that's a kind word for a lie, but it really. It just denigrates the sacrifice of everyone in those units that are kind of the quiet professionals. They're not looking for the limelight. And like you said, it's tough to come on here sometimes. It goes against everything.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Travis Warlock]

It's always, stay away from the media. You know, we just. You're the quiet professional now. But this was. This just had to happen. I would. I would be remiss if the American public were to think that this is how United States Army Green Beret operate in any capacity. It's an absolutely horrible narrative, and it did not happen. Did not happen.

[Brent Tucker]

I actually got one more. I did, you know, because it was my wheelhouse. You know, I got to do a lot of this research and all these calls, but you've got to be on all these podcasts, you know, and you've got to hear all the updates and, and sit on it and now, you know, and sit it on the, on the teammates doing it. But you're, you're, you're a combat veteran as well. What is, what's. I know we get a mic, you know, to say this most time, usually you're just interjecting and talking about specific things. I don't know if you've ever had a chance to weigh in on this. Holistically, what do we. And for you, it's not, you know, just to the American people, just what are your thoughts on this book and the stories and how this has unfolded? Did. Just holistically, what are your thoughts?

[Tyler]

I thought it was a great book and I said it before. It's a great book. If it was fiction, it reads like a Tom Clancy novel. And my biggest gripe is with all the people that have financial ties and with Tim Kennedy and they are bedding down in this and they're. I don't know what's going to happen because this, they seem to think it's going to wash over and more and more people are, you know, they're like, oh, everything's going to be the same for Tim Kennedy after this. And I don't think it is. And I really wish people would just go, hey, I was, I was fooled. I had no idea. There's no shame in that. You should have looked into a little bit more. And it seems a little crazy, but, you know, if Sean Ryan said, hey, you know, I didn't do my research, my bad. Right. That's all you have to say, you know, oh, I'm financially invested in Tim Kennedy. I co wrote his book. This is what he told me.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Tyler]

Those types of people I wish would. Would step up.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, I agree with that. I keep saying last question, but we really, in this show, one way and one way only. One way and one way only.

[Tyler]

I told the super chats 10 minutes, 20 minutes ago we'd be there in 10 minutes.

[Brent Tucker]

I know, that's fine. This is, this is important enough. Travis, you got a funny story for us?

[Travis Warlock]

You may have to cut this. I already like it.

[Brent Tucker]

I already want to keep it.

[Travis Warlock]

So flying down here was the worst experience of my life.

[Brent Tucker]

Well, who's. Who's.

[Tyler]

Wait. Whose idea was it to book a 4pm flight in?

[Travis Warlock]

I did.

[Matt Jenkins]

You did?

[Travis Warlock]

Yeah. I just got a lot of stuff happening back home.

[Tyler]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

Had to come in, shoot in.

[Brent Tucker]

I will take it.

[Travis Warlock]

So thank you all for affording me this opportunity to correct the record. So I'm flying down here and I'M in the window seat and you might have to cut this.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Travis Warlock]

I'm sitting next to a transsexual that's not getting cut.

[Tyler]

No.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay. Yet.

[Tyler]

Yet what you do, Travis?

[Travis Warlock]

Jeez, man. I have never in my life felt so uncomfortable for an hour.

[Tyler]

Oh, yeah, you're, like, touching. You're trying not to touch.

[Travis Warlock]

Oh, gosh. It's unbelievable, man. The. The nails were just.

[Brent Tucker]

The nails. The Adam's apple, the beard.

[Travis Warlock]

It was the most. Oh, stop it.

[Brent Tucker]

How are we doing that?

[Travis Warlock]

The size 12ft and size 6 sandals.

[Tyler]

Her little princess sandals.

[Brent Tucker]

Big man.

[Travis Warlock]

Feed in them.

[Brent Tucker]

Gosh, man.

[Travis Warlock]

I have never in my life. And. And I go to the. The stewardess and I'm like, is there any seat out here available? I will pay right now. And they're wanting.

[Tyler]

You know what's funny is we actually plan that.

[Travis Warlock]

Next time we ask you to come on the podcast, do it the.