Trump REFUSES To Apologize To Pope Leo-Patreon Tuesday (04/14/2026)

Summary

The Antihero Broadcast – Episode Summary

Episode: Trump REFUSES To Apologize To Pope Leo – Patreon Tuesday
Date: April 14, 2026
Hosts: Mike & Tyler, with Stassi Schroeder (guest host/contributor)

---

Episode Overview

This episode of The Antihero Broadcast dives into several current events and policing issues, with an irreverent, blue-collar tone. The hosts riff on Trump’s latest viral AI controversy (him as Jesus/Doctor/Red Cross worker), the nuances of media coverage around police-involved incidents, and a deep-dive on recent court cases where officers are scrutinized for their in-custody conduct—particularly, the line between reasonable force and neglect.

Patreon and broadcast audience engagement is front and center, and the tone remains humorous and combative, especially as the conversation moves from topical news to in-depth debate about standards and training in law enforcement. The hosts balance mockery and insight, with a focus on issues that matter to veterans, first responders, and blue-collar listeners.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. Trump’s Viral Image & Response

• Topic: Trump posting then deleting an AI-generated image depicting himself as Jesus (or a doctor/Red Cross worker).
• Hosts’ Take: They lampoon the absurdity, Trump’s WWE past, and America’s “showman” politics.
• Timestamps:
  • [07:06] Stassi: “Mr. President, did you post that picture of yourself depicted as Jesus Christ?”
  • [07:13] Mike (as Trump): “I thought it was me as a doctor and had to do with Red Cross... Only the fake news could come up with that one.”
  • [09:51] Tyler: “There was a lot of confusion yesterday whether or not he shared this, but it turns out he did share this at some point and then took it down.”
• Memorable Moment:
  • [08:44] Mike: “Stone Cold Steve Austin has stunned, like, 80 of the people in this picture to include the president... how do you explain that to future kids?”
• Tone: Satirical, mocking, almost affectionate in acknowledging the surreal nature of modern politics.

---

2. Police Sponsorships, Community, and Inside Jokes

• Topic: Updates on podcast’s Patreon, care packages, and humorous asides about their listeners.
• Timestamps:
  • [04:00] Mike: “Starting May 1, one Super Chat for the month, over $10, and one member of the Patreon will receive a care package from us... done by me out of spite that Tyler doesn’t think it’s going to happen.”
• Notable Quotes:
  • [05:29] Mike: “If you got loyal members now... I can spend a couple hundred bucks. And now you’re wearing our brand out in public... that is the point.”
• Attitude: Self-deprecating, wry, focused on building community with a dose of friendly bullying.

---

3. Media Framing and Police Shootings

Case 1: Lake County family grieves man killed by deputy during 911 response

• Discussion: The media headline omits key facts (the deceased had stabbed his cousin), leading the hosts to rail against clickbait journalism.
• Timestamps:
  • [14:53] Mike: “Here is the headline: Lake county family grieves man killed by deputy during 911 response.”
  • [16:36] Mike (summarizing article): “They don’t... say the dude stabbed his cousin to the point... now it’s ‘things happen.’”
  • [18:41] Tyler: “The entitlement of that culture is they think that an ambulance driver is going to come risk their life to someone that was just stabbed...”
• Memorable Quote:
  • [19:30] Mike: “What normal brained human being would think the police aren’t coming? Like we’ve all seen tv... To be so silly, just...”
• Takeaway: Hosts argue the media and public intentionally (or ignorantly) distort the dangers and complexities first responders face.

---

4. Bodycam Review & In-Custody Deaths

Case 2: Frank Tyson – Police accountability and standards after a death in custody

• Discussion: They play and analyze recent footage of officers restraining and leaving a suspect prone for ~5 minutes, mirroring echoes of George Floyd.
• Timestamps:
  • [23:20] Mike: “Here we go... (plays video) Please get him out of here now. You ain’t killing me tonight. You ain’t killing me.”
  • [29:56] Mike (as video is analyzed): “Notice... knee across the back, looks like in the middle of the back right now... there you go, there is his knee.”
  • [31:13] Mike: “So, I missed that part... now it’s five minutes later and he’s still in the same position by himself.”
• Breakdown & Debate:
  • Stassi (Police Trainer) Insight:
    • [35:53] “It’s a logical fallacy that if you’re breathing, you’re talking. By the time you stop talking, what has happened? You’re dead...”
    • [39:04] Mike (joking on resistance): “We know the feeling of talking and feeling the life sucked out of us because we both argue with our wives.”
    • [44:06] Stassi: “Every decision you make post handcuffing is going to be a little bit more scrutinized...”
  • Tyler's Take:
    • [33:27] Tyler: “Here’s the problem. I’m not good at articulating what’s right and wrong... He did all that. He called the cops to fight...”
    • [43:03] Tyler: “We’re really only debating where they left you for five minutes, right?”
• Memorable Clip:
  • [38:31] Stassi: “Once that person’s in handcuffs, you do have an obligation to protect them. Whether they created that situation is irrelevant... it's now your responsibility to make sure they're okay.”
• Consensus: The real issue isn’t the initial restraint, but the critical lapse in monitoring and aftercare—which opens the door to legal and ethical consequences for police indifference.

---

5. Police Training, Standards & Recruiting Crisis

• Debate: How can we expect cops to be expert fighters and tacticians given declining hiring standards and a shrinking talent pool?
• Timestamps:
  • [54:23] Stassi: “That falls into the this is the way we’ve always done it mentality and that doesn’t mean it was right.”
  • [55:22] Stassi: “You should have to shoot well. When I say don’t be a cop, it’s the wake up call to up your game... you have to meet the standard.”
  • [58:08] Tyler: “Mike fluctuates from defending cops to turning into an admin episode. And now I’m like the union leader...”
• Notable Quotes:
  • [59:14] Tyler: “Until 99.99% of the rest of the country... builds morale and starts doing good training, we’re gonna hang out the lowest end of the totem pole out to dry.”
  • [61:34] Stassi: “It usually requires a tragedy before people go, ‘huh, guess we should do something...’ weak men are not going to make changes...”
• Tone: Frustrated, pragmatic, at times impassioned—but with an undercurrent that current dysfunction is self-perpetuating until systems collapse force improvement.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [08:44] Mike: "Stone Cold Steve Austin has stunnered like 80 of the people in this picture to include the president. Like, it’s epic, dude."
• [18:46] Mike (on media coverage): "We just wanted an ambulance because of something that happened, which was like attempted murder, man. We wanted to get in trouble. We just wanted an ambulance."
• [35:53] Stassi: "It’s a really dangerous slippery slope for cops to immediately equate talking with viability... You can still breathe and get enough information out to say, I am losing my breath, and eventually the breath is going to be gone, which means my talking is going to be gone because I’ll be dead."
• [44:06] Tyler: "We're debating what happens after you get the person under control and in your custody. I see nothing wrong with how they got him into custody."
• [50:28] Tyler: "Why don't you think this is a problem for the last, in the last 20, 30 years? It's just now becoming a problem since 2020. And when I say becoming a problem, it's obviously highlighted when this happens, very rarely it's a very highlighted topic."
• [56:22] Stassi: "You don't have to be a blue belt. Just understand how the body works, how biomechanics works, leverage and pressure."
• [59:14] Tyler: "Until 99.99% of the rest of the country in law enforcement gets rid of shitty admin, builds morale, and starts doing good training, we're gonna hang out the lowest end of the totem pole out to dry."

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [07:06] Trump AI image as Jesus/Doctor and his “explanation”
• [14:53] Media coverage of fatal police-involved shooting in Lake County
• [23:20] Review of Frank Tyson in-custody death video
• [35:53] Stassi on “I can’t breathe” and post-custody police obligations
• [43:03] Debate: Acceptable police restraint vs. gross negligence
• [54:23] Policing culture, standards, and “always done it that way” logic
• [58:08] Recruiting/training crisis and administrative failures
• [61:34] Systemic inertia, tragedies, and the pressure for change

---

Summary & Impact

This episode digs deep into the gap between public perception, media framing, and police realities, underscored through humor, sarcasm, and personal war stories. The crew delivers both catharsis and constructive critique for front-liners and anyone concerned with the future of American policing. While they lampoon the circus of American politics and vloggers, they convey urgency about the need for better leadership, training, and honest standards inside law enforcement—because unless things change, tragedies and lawsuits will persist.

Listeners seeking an unfiltered, boots-on-the-ground perspective—plus laughs—will find this episode quintessential Antihero Broadcast.

Transcript

[Mike]

Feeding the fam isn't easy, but we got you. With Denny's slamming meal deals starting at 5.99 full meals for everyone like a Grand Slam burrito for Grandpa and a Super Slam for Super Mom. Get to Denny's now. Ballot participating locations for Dinein or Denny's.com, limited time offer. Additional restrictions may apply at some locations.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I am your host, Stassi Schroeder. Welcome to Tell Me Lies the official podcast. What's the most unhinged thing of season three? Steven because he's so evil I do

[Mike]

think he is misunderstood.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You see everyone face consequences. It's intoxicating. The writers just know how to trick. Yeah, there's always a twist in this show, so nothing you would expect. Tell Me Lies, the official podcast now streaming and stream the new season of Tell Me Lies on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus.

[Tyler]

The information provided by the speakers and presenters on the Anti Air broadcast platform is for general informational and entertainment purposes only. Information does not represent the broadcast network and all entities involved. All information is provided in good faith. However, we make no representation or warranty of any kind, express or implied regarding the accuracy, adequacy, see validity, reliability, availability or completeness of this information. Hurt feelings is not defamation. TV Team for Life Good morning, it is Patreon Tuesday, April 14, 2026 the Anti Air Broadcast is the news entertainment broadcast for veterans, first spawners and all blue collar Americans starting on time and sharp at 11am today. This show is of course brought to you by Ghostbed. Go to ghostbed.com forward/antihero. Save 10 on their already ridiculously low prices. Pillowcases with mattress toppers, cooling patented technology sheets and their award winning mattresses. 60, 000 5 star rating and reviews in house, customer service and free shipping on those big ass mattresses. So if you got to replace something in the bedroom please go to ghostbed.com forward/antihero. It'll save you 10 and it'll tell them that we sent you and of course Elevated silence. Go to elevatedsounds.com and use promo code ANTIRE15SAVE15 on your can. They have suppressors from everything from 22s to 50cals. Exercise your second amendment right. Get yourself a suppressor. The process is not hard and Jim will walk you through it. Go to elevated silence.com and use promo code ANTIHERO.

[Mike]

Save 15% and go to try crave.com use code ANTIHERO15 for 15 off. You want to look jacked and not bloated like Tyler might look on night shift. Creatine is good for a magnitude of reasons. It puts water on the muscles. Look at that's water on the muscles. Improves brain function. Gives you lean muscle, not that other kind of muscle. Boost strength up to 30 now and studies are showing it helps with the brain which I think you guys can see Tyler getting slightly smarter. I think somebody said he was smarter last week. So take three gummies a day. They're easy to travel with. They're good for on the go. So go to try crave.com use code anti or 15 for 15 off your order. And if you don't like something and you're not happy with it, they will give you a full money back guarantee. That's pretty good.

[Tyler]

All right.

[Mike]

And everything just like slid it right in.

[Tyler]

That was like, it was like it came natural to you.

[Mike]

It's a good thing we don't get mad at each other. Making fun of each other. That's a good quality to have.

[Tyler]

Yeah. So this first hour is obviously the regular show covering a lot of topics, covering a lot of videos, covering a lot of stuff going on. And then the second hour, if you haven't already, if you join our Patreon, any paid tiered membership will be able to watch the second, the second hour of Patreon. And so that'll be a good time. We got some topics to cover on that as well.

[Mike]

So don't forget one guest From Patreon and one guest from Super Chats of over $10 will get a care package. I teased some product yesterday, a Zen 10 holder. There's some knives, there's some other stuff, engravables. We got a lot of other companies that we will absolutely highlight when they donate these Items. But starting May 1, one super chat for the month, over $10 and one member of the Patreon will receive a care package from us done by me out of spite that the fact Tyler won't doesn't think it's going to happen. I will make sure it happens. So make sure you join our Patreon. And our newest member was Sal yesterday. Man, we love Sal. So he's part of the OG Council which is our top tier. They get all the back, back door information. We want backdoor information, all the inside information and everything good to go with the any hero broadcast. So don't forget to join.

[Tyler]

Yeah, and Patreon's a good way to get a hold of us. We're obviously me and Mike are separate companies or we're sponsoring two shooting Teams that are happen to be in our.

[Mike]

Maybe three. I might, I might add a third. Oh, two for sure.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Money bags. Mike over here, he's got it all.

[Mike]

But my last name's not Juver, so.

[Tyler]

So that's a good way, you know, like we just build the community there. I don't really know if I, I mean, to be honest, I don't really know. We're not looking. I don't really know. I can't speak for Mike. I'm not. I wasn't really looking to sponsor anybody at the moment. And they hit us up and they're like, hey, we'd love to represent you. And I'm like, least I can do

[Mike]

is it kind of goes like the gaming. So we added counterculture gaming. Right. We have a great bunch of dudes doing that and it's like, why wouldn't you want if you got loyal members now at some point I can't pay for your kids tuition to school or like college or their lunches. Like we're gonna have to draw a line somewhere. But in the interest of keeping the Patreon guys what they are, our OGs is, yeah, I can spend a couple hundred bucks. And now you're wearing our brand out in public just for the fact that somebody goes, who's that team you're shooting for? Oh, these are the guys. Check this out. Like that is the point. So we absolutely will do all we can to sponsor our OGs and our people that are going to be out doing things and that support us like no one else.

[Tyler]

Who do you wanna, you want to talk Trump first? We want to do.

[Mike]

Yeah, you want to play that video? So you want to put the picture. You have anything ready? Obviously, I'll just go in. Trump got the picture. Everybody knows the picture. I've seen so many versions of it. Northern Provisions posted one today with Epstein in the clouds above Trump and Clinton. Yeah, Copville Team Cavill last place again. Yeah, but, but I'm not posting if you guys finish last. By the way, they participated in this week's shooting. I'm gonna do media does where I say the team participated in this week's event and they gave it a valiant effort. They finished 97th out of 97. Not gonna bring that part up. We're just gonna glaze over. But yeah, Trump, all kinds of versions of this AI image he shared. So there is actually video of him giving his response as to maybe why, what, what his thoughts were. So Here we go.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Mr. President, did you post that picture of yourself depicted as Jesus Christ.

[Mike]

Well, it wasn't depiction.

[Tyler]

It was me.

[Mike]

I. I did post it and I

[Tyler]

thought it was me as a doctor and had to do with Red Cross,

[Mike]

as a Red Cross worker there, which we support. And only the fake news could come

[Tyler]

up with that one.

[Mike]

So I, I had. I just heard about it and I said, how did they come up with that?

[Tyler]

It's supposed to be me as a doctor making people better.

[Mike]

There's your president, man. There's your president, dude. There's nobody, like. There's nobody like him, dude.

[Tyler]

No, no, we were. I was watching. I'm finishing up the Mr. McMahon documentary on Netflix again, because it's just so fun. Nobody liked him either, but Trump was on there and the, the, you know, they were interviewing wrestlers and stuff on the documentary, and they're like, dude, Trump had already shown his propensity for the talking he can do. He was on WWE and he. His pay per view, that he was part of him. And Vince McMahon had a Billionaire First Billionaire match, and they had two wrestlers wrestle for them and the loser had to shave their head. And they're like, it was the most gross pay per view ever in the history of the WWE because Donald Trump.

[Mike]

Yeah, and McMahon lost and got his head, obviously. But I love the picture of the first term of the president, and it's got the McMahon family and Trump and all and a couple other people in it, and it says, stone Cold Steve Austin has stunned. Stone cold stunnered like 80 of the people in this picture to include the president. Like, it's. It's epic, dude.

[Tyler]

I remember that.

[Mike]

Yeah, he stunned Linda McMahon. He stunned Stephanie McMahon, Shane McMahon, Vince McMahon, the President. Like, what a. I mean, I don't care what you say. At the end of these eight years and. And maybe before I die, 10, 12, 15 more years, people are gonna be like, bro, you remember that it was president. Like, how do you explain that to future kids? Like, yeah, this guy came along out of nowhere and, like, said the most, like, ridiculous. I don't know. I think that presidency is going to change over time. I think they're going to be more and more generation. Like, we see people now more Mamdani and, and. And weird. More showmen, not more showman, but no life experience. And then hiding behind, like, social media, where Donald Trump obviously has been all over the world, done it all. There he is. Dr. Trump, man. Paging Dr. Trump. Paging Dr. Trump. Emergency room nine.

[Tyler]

You know that they do this spirit Halloween costume memes.

[Mike]

Oh, my God.

[Tyler]

There's one that says Doctor. And it has, like, the red robe, and it's. It's like, clearly, it's Jesus. But it's a doctor.

[Mike]

Oh, my God.

[Tyler]

So, I mean, there was a lot of confusion yesterday whether or not he shared this, but it turns out he did share this at some point and then took it down.

[Mike]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dr. Trump. I say that. And that little Chinese kid from What, Indiana Jones.

[Tyler]

Dr. Jones.

[Mike]

Yeah. Paging Dr. Trump. Paging Dr. Trump.

[Tyler]

There's a. There's another one of him. There's a. It's an ER room, and there's a bunch of doctors looking at him, and he's standing there in this garbage, and it says, sir, can we help? He goes, no, I work here.

[Mike]

I know Northern Provisions posted a new one, and it's got. We might get canceled, but it's got Epstein in the clouds and all kinds of.

[Tyler]

I mean, dude, y' all with a whopping $99. Thanks, bud. Says all over him, dude, sponsor CC I don't really know what that. Okay, Tristan, member for two months to sponsor CC What? What is cc? What?

[Mike]

Yeah, I'm not sponsoring CC Till he starts to go fund me for me.

[Tyler]

I'm not sure what he's running. I must have missed the.

[Mike]

I want an aerosol mural. So I want to. I want CC to spot. To start a GoFundMe for an air Assault mural in my house.

[Tyler]

Nothing is here, guys. I said it was fake news. I don't. What am I. What are we sponsoring guys?

[Mike]

I don't know.

[Stassi Schroeder]

It's.

[Tyler]

Next PT test. We got you, Cece. Whatever you need, man, just let us know.

[Mike]

John wants his $2 back. That's another the same kid, right? And then somewhere, the whole movie the kid wants is $2 or it's $5. What the movie was that?

[Tyler]

Oh, man. Better off dead.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Paper boy.

[Mike]

Yeah, he wants his $5.

[Tyler]

The whole movie chases them down. Yeah, CC can you sponsor a. Oh, there you go. Ask CC to sponsor some people Cornhole tournament. Yeah, there you go.

[Mike]

I like it.

[Tyler]

Yeah, C.C. you should do that, man.

[Mike]

Sponsor Clint's drinking team for this week in South Carolina.

[Tyler]

Is he gonna. I wonder if Clint's gonna actually do the live show with us.

[Mike]

I don't know. I think we have to keep him a secret. I mean, he is, like, a spectacle of our show.

[Tyler]

Like, he's the guy sponsor Pride Assassin. You know what's funny is Pride Ass is one of the. One of our big supporters in here. He's in Patreon, and I was thinking of People, when we were talking about sword thing yesterday, about, you know, combating a guy in the middle of the road with a sword, and I'm like, what type of dude owns a sword? And I was like, I bet you Pride Assassin owns a sword. He gives off the vibe of like, I own a sword. Yeah, I practice in my dojo and my ninja robe or my samurai rope, but I could be wrong.

[Mike]

God damn it.

[Tyler]

There he is. He's in the chat.

[Mike]

Find this article.

[Tyler]

So what are we covering first?

[Mike]

So I'm gonna go into this. Why is everything so difficult in my life?

[Tyler]

Like, Justin has a sword. Did that surprise you at all?

[Mike]

Justin has a what sword? No, no.

[Tyler]

If he's got one sword, that means he's got 10 lightsabers.

[Mike]

There we go. All right, cop. Oh, I can do this.

[Tyler]

Put Dylan's chat on screen. Well, there's like two Dylan's, and I didn't see a chat from either one of them. Tell Dylan to send it again.

[Mike]

Send it again.

[Tyler]

Pride Assassin said I've owned several over the years. And axes. I have a sort of wolverine claws.

[Mike]

Let's get the. We'll get that chat up and then we'll go to my new conspiracy.

[Tyler]

Josh says Justin has a Roblox sword. Like foam.

[Mike]

Oh, boy.

[Tyler]

Oh, that's funny.

[Mike]

All right, so Lee County. I'm gonna. I'm. Put the headline up.

[Tyler]

This is the sheriff. That's one of the many sheriffs in Florida Center.

[Mike]

But, yeah, he's. But it's not him. I'm not going after him. This is a. This is a situation in there, and I want you to just look at the headline, and then we're going to go from there. So the headline says as soon as it works. Maybe not.

[Tyler]

Want me to put it up?

[Mike]

No, hold on. Before preparing a screen, remove the other media streams from the stage. I don't understand what that means. Hold on, let me. Let me. Let me. Let me produce. All right, try it again. Oh, maybe remove that picture.

[Tyler]

What?

[Mike]

Remove that picture. I don't know what the. Is going on. Okay, it's gonna be some. There we go.

[Tyler]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike]

So here is the headline. Lake county family Greaves man killed by deputy during 911 response. If you read that, you can't.

[Tyler]

My computer screen.

[Mike]

No maybe. Yeah. Hair or no maybe. Like previously hit with a brick or object or beat up. So when you read that. What. Anybody. What is that? What do you think happened?

[Tyler]

Family Greek man killed by a 911 response. It makes me sound like it was a bad shoot. You Know that's where the vibe it goes off.

[Mike]

Okay. Yeah, exactly. Right, so.

[Tyler]

Oh, he's in a suit, Mike. He's good.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The man fatally shot by law enforcement. Lake county is speaking the family to Matthias Reed, Montclair, Leesburg. Deputies responded to a. To the block.

[Tyler]

Hold on. Wait, Mike, we can't glaze over.

[Mike]

Timothy.

[Tyler]

That is a real name.

[Mike]

That is.

[Tyler]

Timothy is. Oh, I did. He. Dude, he runs with John Tavius. Used to run, probably. So John Tavius and Timotheus Reed.

[Mike]

Okay, so they only released the part where they. They tend to this man after he shot. But I want. I want to scroll down here to where it says they. They do not believe Reed was armed. The sheriff's office said the knife was located in proximity the area. So here, start right about here and I'm going to read it. They didn't call police. They called for an ambulance. Reed's sister said. The family said Reed got into an altercation with his cousin prior to the shooting. The caller said she was trying to get help for the cousin. They were out partying. They got back to where they were and they were just having an argument and, you know, things happen. Things that settled down. They called for an ambulance. We just want.

[Tyler]

That happened. Got it.

[Mike]

They don't. They completely glaze over that the thing that happened was he stabbed his cousin with a knife. So nowhere in that article, you got the suit, we got the sister and the brother. The police are bad. Nowhere in that article does it say the dude stabbed his cousin to the point. Things that. Now it's things that happened, things that happen. We didn't want police. We just wanted an ambulance because, I mean, technically, something that didn't happen, they did happen. But yeah, the media. Like, where I'm going with this is the media is to me, it goes right with the SWAT thing you posted this morning. Like they're zooming in on this cop's phone. They're ruining his life. So that's cool because it's a cop. It's a story. Let's make it bad. Here's a shooting. Sounds tragic. We don't want anybody to die. Not John Tavia is not Timotheus. I don't want anybody to die. But when you put the guy in the tie, you know right away that the article is going to be interesting. When you see a dude in a certain tie, they found the picture. And then you say, we only wanted an ambulance. Well, guess what. No ambulance is pulling up and getting out to any crime scene where there's Any type of injury or obvious problem and then to glaze it and post it. I keep using that word way too much. My wife hates it to keep. To just go omit the fact that he stabbed his relative. Like he's almost like it's common like that. You know, things happen. We were at a party and things happen and then. But we didn't want to investigate in police. We just wanted an ambulance. So the ambulance does not come. Now the shooting part I'm not going to get into because I will say suspiciously. Lee county released only the portion where they show them helping Timotheus. They don't show the shooting. They don't show that what led up to the shooting. They just show him on the ground and everybody helping him. So I just found it interesting that again, media creates tricky headlines. Clickbait. And then interviews people and puts in there like they completely omit that. This dude committed aggravated battery with the deadly life and maybe attempted murder one or the other.

[Tyler]

Yeah. Holy crap, man.

[Mike]

We're just gonna forget.

[Tyler]

Things happen, man. Things happen.

[Mike]

And that's what I'm saying. And you, you work there, you know that neighborhood where there is things. The dudes will be laying dead, you know, and everybody's like nah dog, I'm gonna let the street handle it. Like I'm not talking to the police.

[Tyler]

Here's the. Here's the. The entitlement of that culture is they think that an ambulance driver is going to come risk their life to someone that was just stabbed without just things happen.

[Mike]

No things just happened.

[Tyler]

He wasn't no dispatch. Things just happened. Send us an ambulance there. Just tell the ambulance driver and the fireman that things just happen. Don't worry about it. They're not. I wouldn't if I had no gun. Dude. Firefighters shoot all the time. They're avid shooters but they're not allowed to carry guns as their job. I'm not they're. And they're smart enough to not show up to a scene where someone just stabs somebody.

[Mike]

And. And here's where the dumbing of society. And they want us to believe you stab somebody. There was a stabbing. What normal brained human being would think the police aren't coming. Like we've all seen tv. We all grew up. They were. They live in a neighborhood where I'm sure there's a lot of police activity. To be so silly. To be so silly. Just. I looked up the address and I saw that there was a lot of calls in that area. It was in the gated community behind the Polo and racquetball club.

[Tyler]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike]

So I. To be so stupid or not to think, like, police aren't coming. We know they're gonna have to come. And we didn't want police. We just wanted an ambulance because of something that happened, which was like attempted murder, man. We wanted to get in trouble. We just wanted an ambulance. So again, that's where the cops show up. And honestly, let's put it to that perspective. They don't want our help. Right, but we have to, by policy, by procedure, we have to go. How many times would you like to go? Okay, you guys want to stab each other and you don't want the cops. We ain't coming. We're good to go. Like, I don't want to go first. Now these. Somebody shot this guy because of an attempted murder or stabbing, and they didn't even want the police there. So, like, put that into your head, did they?

[Tyler]

I know they didn't release any body cam, but they released a statement about what happened.

[Mike]

No, they just went very vague.

[Tyler]

And so they're just gonna leave it at letting the family dictate the narrative. That's not smart.

[Mike]

Well, that's where the sheriff comes in. He's an absolute Carmine Marcino who isn't seeking reelection and isn't running for any type of other political office because I think two terms. Yeah, he's good. And he was getting outed when he was. He said he was going to run for Senate or, like, House, and then all the dirt started kind of like Sawwell in California. All the dirt started really coming out. He's like, ah, never mind. I'm not running for office. I'm just gonna.

[Tyler]

Just.

[Mike]

This is my last term. Take care. So Liz with 499 says they just wanted a ghetto lawsuit. And I will tell you.

[Tyler]

Did she say wanted to get a lawsuit, or did she want to get a lawsuit? Let us know if it's a typo, because it's still pretty good.

[Mike]

This one just happened. The one. The other one we're going to talk about is older, and I believe there's already been a lawsuit settlement. D.C. actually posted the video. I have. Let me just. You're gonna love this one. I'm gonna get mad at CC too, for he should be giving us this stuff first exclusives.

[Tyler]

What are we doing?

[Mike]

I'm gonna go into another story, then I'm gonna play the video of the incident. So this is.

[Tyler]

Sing a song while you sing the

[Mike]

song where the piano man. All right, so here is this. I don't know how we know this one didn't. I didn't see this one. I called Dom. Dom had kind of seen it, but not much. Trial date set for two can officers indicted in the death of Frank Tyson. Bless you. A trial date was set Tuesday in the case of two CAN officers charged in April 24 with the death of Frank Tyson while in police custody. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They ruled it a homicide. But the. Just like the George Floyd incident, it was drug induced. Yeah, heart attack and all that stuff. Of course, they call it a homicide. According to the Star, Canton police called to the scene. When they arrived, he was struggling inside the club. After taking to the ground, he was handcuffed, lying on his stomach when he said he couldn't breathe.

[Tyler]

Oh, thanks, media. Thanks for letting us know that.

[Mike]

So here we go. I will play this video and you guys will make your decision.

[Tyler]

Oh, we got the video of it.

[Mike]

We got the video. Courtesy of Conservative Chocolate. Maybe did it go. Oh, there it is. All right, here we go. Please get him out of here now. You ain't killing me tonight. You ain't killing me. No, no, no. They try to kill me. They try to kill me.

[Tyler]

So this guy, keep in mind, if I'm not mistaken, is causing a nuisance in a establishment.

[Mike]

He's acting like a. They called to get him removed.

[Tyler]

Yes. So this, this isn't the police out here looking to oppress. They were called for a call for service for a business that wants a guy removed. And look how. As soon as they walk up, look at them.

[Mike]

Let's go down the list. Now, the checklist because I don't know where Dom is going to fall on this one, so I want to get there. George Floyd, right? Called for a $20 bill. One of Dominic's big arguments is the police did not even investigate long enough to determine if a crime had been committed. They took the word of the initial call that he did attempt to pass the 20 bill. I can see that argument. I don't think it changes anything to me, but I can see this case, this is a 9:1 call for a disruptive patron in a business that they want removed. And as you can see from the initial onset, he is acting crazy. So initially, immediately, that whole like, did they investigate to see if something.

[Tyler]

No cops in here. If they. The people that aren't cops in here. Understand trespass is trespass. Trespass is I own an establishment or I represent an establishment accomplishment and I want you gone if you say no. I called the police. The police show up and say, dude, I mean, this is. They. Technically, there's case law and stuff, or statutes that say the police don't even have to tell you if you've been told. And it can kind of be written on a statement and kind of proved and articulated that you were told and you didn't leave that. You don't. The police don't even have to tell

[Mike]

you, but as long as they work

[Tyler]

99 of the time, the cops walk up and go, hey, man, you gotta go. And they're hit with that. So there's no investigating. The fact that he's standing there when you say, let's go, is. That's. That's the whole case. That's the whole investigation right there.

[Mike]

Trespass after warning is not an exception. So what a lot of cops mess up to go on Joanna's high horse because she's very good at this stuff, is if that happened and then the police arrived and he was across the street standing there, they can't arrest him. They can't. They can try to get his information, detain him. They can detain him, get a. Get his information from. I mean, you have a. You have a reason to believe a crime was, Is. Was or about to be committed. It was committed, but you can't arrest him. You need. It's not an exception to the misdemeanor rules. You can attempt to get his id. Well, I'm pretty sure, remember, his was or is about.

[Tyler]

But we had to go through all kinds of briefings and legal. When, let's say, because this happens, guys, a lot. I'm a trespasser at 7:11. I mean, I have those calls every 20 minutes. You know, I walk up there, it's a black male, or. Okay for. It's a white male, black shirt, blue jeans. Right? White male, black shirt, blue jeans, long gray hair. I'm driving up and I see that same guy walking away. And I'm like, oh, yeah, he. That's Marty. He trespasses every day. All right? I know most likely it's him. And I go and I talk to them, and they're like, yeah, it was Marty. He's walking down next to Winn Dixie over there. I was told, like, we were told, we cannot even stop him. We cannot even detain him. If he wants to talk to us, that's fine, but we can't detain him. We say, we can't say, come here. Because he's not on the scene of the way he was trespassed. That could have changed.

[Mike]

Well, so the difference is like, we get confused on trespassing, which is somebody calls in and says that guy was trespassing, or we want him trespassed. If you don't witness him at the scene and on scene, that's where, like detaining him, he left. If I say leave my property, he goes, okay. And he leaves. And then he's across the street. He has not committed a crime. He's not detainable. In a case where you tell him to leave and he stays and then the police see him there. When they get there, a crime is committed. Trespass after warning. If he's still in the area and a crime was committed, which is trespassing, you can't arrest him due to the misdemeanor exception, but you have a right to detain him to. To invest. I'm getting the. The. I got the expert coming.

[Tyler]

All right, never mind. I back up.

[Mike]

I got the expert coming in.

[Tyler]

So what is that called? I. I recede.

[Mike]

Concede. Concede. Receipt is your hairline.

[Tyler]

Hey, by the way, you can detain it. Keep in mind, we're talking about Florida here. That's. I'm assuming it's pre. It's probably the same in most states, but we're specifically talking about Florida. So, Hank, if you're talking about anywhere else, I can't 100 debate you without knowing what state you're in. But. Yeah.

[Mike]

So in this case, what I was going back to was Dom's argument about they didn't even know if he really attempted to. To pass the bill. In this case, they have a call. He's trespassing. He was told to be removed or has to be removed. He's still in on scene. So therefore, trespassing is being committed in their presence. They can go hands on and make an arrest if need be. That's where we're at right now. I don't know what the expert has on this, but I'm going to continue. Play the video and we'll go from there. Maybe you're gone. I'm back. Somewhere in here is this one. All right, here we go. Share. Call the chair. Mom, the chair. Get on the ground. Then it gets grayed.

[Tyler]

I don't get.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Call the chef.

[Tyler]

Then it gets sprayed. Don't.

[Mike]

Don't spray.

[Tyler]

Call the chef.

[Mike]

Don't spray. Call the chef.

[Tyler]

If I kill me, call the chef. Bob, I got him here.

[Mike]

You want that one. You say when you're good.

[Tyler]

Needle of your hand.

[Mike]

All right, so now I want you to notice he's. They're cuffing him. Actively. He's on the ground. You can hear his voice change a little bit. He's obviously got some weight on him. You're gonna see the. The knee area similarity start to appear in the picture. There you go. There is his knee. His head is behind the knee. So the hand is in the screen. He's got the knee across the back. Looks like in the middle of the back right now. And they're actively handcuffing him. Calm down, calm down. OK. Morning.

[Tyler]

I can't raid.

[Mike]

2029. Stop fighting.

[Tyler]

I can't raid. I can't. I can't get out my neck. Every

[Mike]

fastest doors right there. I'll be glad. All right, so now it was about a little under a minute pressure and now it's off. Okay.

[Tyler]

I can't breath.

[Mike]

You're fine. Yeah, you're good. Appreciate you guys.

[Tyler]

All right.

[Mike]

Okay, so I missed that part.

[Stassi Schroeder]

What?

[Tyler]

What?

[Mike]

It's now five minutes later. So I didn't notice that. Okay, so now. Now I'm gonna have to change a little bit. But let's keep it playing. This is five minutes later and you're. I guess now we're gonna see. I missed that little part right there where he's still in the same position by himself.

[Tyler]

Stand up.

[Mike]

Yeah. This is a horse of a different color now. I missed the minor details.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Major details.

[Tyler]

Minor, minor, major.

[Mike]

Oh, boy. You start heading out for. Consciousness.

[Tyler]

You think he's his pants right now as probably.

[Mike]

So let's. That's about. That's it. So let's go with I missed the part about the five minute break and I'm not going to be what I said in my video. I'm not gonna be what I said in my video.

[Tyler]

But Instagram police. Here, Instagram. Please. Here. No, Instagram police. I just want to make sure.

[Mike]

I mean, you saw it. What do you think?

[Tyler]

Did you.

[Mike]

Hey.

[Tyler]

Did you actually look at the time stamp and make sure? I mean, you probably didn't. I know we're trusting you can see 99. It was five minutes later, but there's a chance that they. Someone just puts it on screen to call.

[Mike]

Let me just add it back because I don't know that.

[Tyler]

I don't know that you see the time switch?

[Mike]

So there is. It's hard to see. Let me blow it up. So there's 2035. So let's go back. 20:35. 20:35.

[Tyler]

That dude does not care that that dude's dead. We're about to hit the five minutes

[Mike]

later mark right there and there is 29. Okay, 29, 20, 29, 33. And then 20, 35, 09.

[Tyler]

We gotta cut out boring stuff. We gotta keep everybody entertained.

[Mike]

Almost maybe more than five minutes slightly. All right, now it's your turn.

[Tyler]

Me?

[Mike]

Oh, yeah. Let's hear it.

[Tyler]

Here's, here's the problem is that I'm not good at articulating what's right and wrong. Right. Now I go back to, like, an ideological standpoint where that he, he did all of that. He calls the cops to fight. He did all that. He is like we always say. I think everybody can agree the first person to blame is George Floyd in the George Floyd scenario. That being said, then we can break down every part after that. But I mean, I, I don't, I, I Again, it's more of an ideological thing. I don't see anything wrong with it. Those cops did nothing wrong other than the fact to catch their breath because they weren't in shape and they weren't bjjing each other before shift, whatever it is.

[Mike]

But here it comes, dude. Here comes. Commandant, I want you to wear a red hat.

[Tyler]

I want you to wear red hats as a CNN on it. That's what I want you to do.

[Mike]

I'll get one. I'll get one. All right. Commandant Tyler from the Third Reich says the dudes were outside catching their, catching their breath. They, they had a rough fight, weren't in shape.

[Tyler]

At any point, does anybody know? Not trying to, are you?

[Mike]

There are only two were indicted.

[Tyler]

Well, but did anybody show up during that five minutes that could have been like, yo, get him up.

[Mike]

Or like, maybe that dude that was kicking in the corner with his hands on his hips, just watching the guy

[Tyler]

get him in the face.

[Mike]

Hey, bro. But. So we'll let the expert speak now.

[Stassi Schroeder]

An expert. But Justin brought up something Donut shop said whenever they said, you know, I think after he was saying I can't breathe, whatever he said. And Justin made a comment about indifference to life. That's kind of a key observation. The other things that there was someone in the chat said is, you know, kind of being tired of people saying they can't breathe if you're breathing. You're talking during my stint in the training unit and watching a plethora of videos and drowning in videos, trying to create scenario training ideas for in service and to keep it realistic from things that I was seeing out in the real world. It's a, a logical fallacy that if you're breathing, you're talking. So to put it in terms, if I think that breathing equals Talking, then talking equals viability, right? Like if you're talking, then you're alive and you have the ability to be alive. So then by the time you stop talking, what has happened,

[Mike]

you're dead.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You stop resisting, probably also, but then you're dead. And then is it not too late to change whatever application of force or change the environment that is leading to the not breathing? Now, anybody who's done any kind of. If you fought with a brother or a friend, if somebody laid on top of you like three of your friend, your friends were dogpiling you, you probably had a moment of where, like, it felt like you couldn't breathe, where the life was slowly exiting your lungs. And although you could talk, not great, you know, the words were a struggle, you could still talk and get out. The fact that, hey, I can't breathe. I can't breathe. So it's a really dangerous slippery slope for cops to immediately equate talking with viability. You can still breathe and get enough information out to say, I am losing my breath and eventually the breath is going to be gone, which means my talking is going to be gone because I'll be dead. So it's just a slippery slope to just equate those two things. The other thing is, once that person's in handcuffs, you've significantly reduced their ability to resist. Not entirely. I realize you can headbutt, spit, kick, still flail around, but it's significantly reduced and the whole duty to protect actually becomes a consideration. From the Castle Rock versus Gonzalez, right, where there's three special circumstances where cops do have a duty to protect. One of those relationships, special relationships is being in custody. So once that person's in custody and is in handcuffs, you do have an obligation to protect them. Whether they created that situation is irrelevant. Is now your obligation and responsibility to make sure that they are okay and they're well taken care of. So the whole. Well, you know, cops say when someone runs from them and they're on the ground fighting them, and they finally get them in the handcuffs and they say, I can't breathe. And cops will notoriously say, well, you shouldn't have ran. Well, that's the business that we're in. That's the bad guy. They run. We're the good guys or the cops. We chase them and catch them. It's a business transaction, right? They're gonna run, we're gonna catch them. But then it's not personal. It's not that that that creates this personal almost volume or narrative that like, well, you ran and now you can't breathe. Well, you should have thought about that before you ran. We're not these people's parents, although it feels that way. They ran, we caught them, and now it's our responsibility to make sure that we set them up. There's. There's nothing wrong with setting that guy up on his rear end and making sure that he can breathe appropriately now that he's in custody.

[Mike]

I got two things.

[Tyler]

I just.

[Mike]

One. Well, go ahead. You go first.

[Tyler]

Well, I'm just gonna ask. I mean, I don't think anybody disagrees with anybody here. It's whether or not these two cops should be indicted for. I'm assuming let. At least manslaughter. I'm assuming that that's what's probably.

[Mike]

They were charged with. They were charged with two cops reckless homicide, which I think is like Ohio's version of manslaughter. They didn't cause a death, but their recklessness led to the death. Two things. One, I know we know the feeling of talking and. And feeling the life sucked out of us because we both argue with our wives.

[Tyler]

We're married here, here and there.

[Mike]

So we know that even though we're talking, we're breathing, so we're skewed a little bit. Two, what I wonder is, do you. Do you have any issue with the incident up until that he's cuffed all the way and they get off of him? Do you think what they did up to that point was sufficient?

[Tyler]

Yep.

[Mike]

Okay, so it's the lack of five minutes of treating him.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yes.

[Tyler]

Okay.

[Stassi Schroeder]

And so. And while he's saying so, here's what he says. I can't breathe. I can't breathe. And he's telling him to calm down. And I think he even says, shut the up or something. Completely dismissive.

[Tyler]

Right.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I think we've. I think people have fallen that coffin. Yeah. And that's. It starts to become personal. This cannot be a personal interaction with these people where you're angry at them for doing what they did. Like, again. And I think it was. Who was it? Iced tea or who. What was the old school rapper that had an interview and said that like this. He never hated the cops. He understood that there was this business between him being a criminal and the cops being cops, and it was not. Yeah.

[Tyler]

If I'm the one in the wrong, I'm gonna say, dude, it's just business. Why are you getting personal? Like, if I'm gonna go someone over financially and go, hey, man, I mean, it's just business. Like, why are you getting all Upset dog. Like, I'm the one that victimized you. Don't worry about it. Like, I mean, at the end of the day, that sounds like a really good narrative for somebody that wants to commit crimes.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Well, no, I think, I think. Narrative that cops can adopt, though. I think cops make bad decisions when we allow our emotions to overtake our logic. And we know that in general, throughout life, even again with your. With your spouse. Right. When you're allowed your emotions to overrun your logic, you start to make bad decisions. And so if it becomes personal, you're mad at him for fighting you. Well, you shouldn't have made me fight you. That's. That's childish. That's an infantile approach to a job that you're paid to do.

[Mike]

What you just pointed out was if you lay this on top of the George Floyd one, they almost run together. Like, if you were to be able to turn the George Floyd take down in the knee, this one's identical, you would think after watching the nation burn, and I'm not crucifying these dudes, I'm not making any convictions on anybody, you would think the last words that would fly out of your mouth are it, you, you, or, yeah, you can breathe. You're talking, like, any of those sequences of words. Just like you said, the final nail in the coffin is like, you watch George Floyd. You watch what happened. And during a guy saying, I can't breathe, you're like, you it. And then he dies. It's like, oh, God, why did I even. Why did I even go in that park? Why did I even get close to saying something?

[Tyler]

Yeah, because what I'm gonna say is, this is. I was watching this scenario when he started resisting. I stopped it in my brain and went, how would I have handled this? I walk into a bar, even with another dude. But this is 10 years in. Nine years into my career, I see that I'm gonna be like, hold on a second. I'm gonna go call my supervisor and be like, I get it. Calls are stacked. We're spread thin. This is going to be a use of force. I'm just telling you right now, based off nine years experience, I'm. There's. This guy is not going to respond to verbal judo. I'm going to have to put hands on him. Would you rather eight or nine people be here in like, 30, 40 minutes when we can get it? And kind of like when someone's at the jail and they're showing their ass, and then nine jailers come down and go like this with their Gloves. And then they're like, actually, you know what? I'm gonna comply. Because it's just that seeing all those people, he's like, oh, they're not around.

[Mike]

Remember, he's on drugs, though. This dude's on cocaine. So I get it. Mental health, cocaine, drugs, they kind of both act the same. I don't know that that's going to change it. I see where you're going with it. But that fine line of what we talk about, which is, you know, this job is dead, is you got to make that decision. You can walk away, you're gonna get fired. Your job's gonna be like, you coward. You get, you know, you're not going to get arrested, you're not going to be indicted, but you've got to make that decision. And then it goes back to like, two guys should be able to control a guy. I don't think 8 is going to get in the way. But I understand what you're saying. Like, show a force. Like almost the escalation is we show up with eight dudes with gloves on and go, hey, bro, come on out, man. It's gonna be ugly if you don't. So I, I get your angle, but I think it's okay. I don't see any problem with what they did. In my opinion, until they sit at

[Tyler]

five minutes, we're really only debating the, the last. Where they left you for five minutes, right?

[Stassi Schroeder]

We're debating what happens after you get the person under control and in your custody. I see nothing wrong with how they got him into custody. The decisions you make, what's different, you know, And I'm not crucifying either. We're talking about just different talking points. But, you know, what the back cop did was in the moment, real time. Things unfolding, threats existing, assessing the threat level. In that moment, this guy's in handcuffs. The severity of threat has diminished significantly. So every decision you make now post handcuffing is going to be a little bit more scrutinized because it's not under the microscope of there's this threat, right? Rapidly tense, evolving situation where you're looking and making decisions in, in microseconds. But now everything's calm, he's in handcuffs, everything's cool and everything's chill. And you still made appeared to be negligent in your care for the person whom you now, by law, have an obligation to care for.

[Tyler]

Here's the thing. I talk to my son all the time about me and my wife, like every day. Pushing your chair, Pushing your chair. It's like, okay, these cops, clearly, it's not that they wanted him to die. It's that they forgot to set him up. So it's their fault. Let's just all put on the fit. This is their fault. He. His death, for the sake of argument, is their fault. Right? They left him there. But what would fix this is super easy. I agree with you. It's training, but it's hard training. It's a simulator where you go and you do five rounds of. You fight somebody, not. You don't have to get punched or anything. You are going to exacerbate yourself to the point where a trainer is going to go now, and that person is going to submit. They're going to give you your hands and you're going to be like, all sweating and hating that you're at mandatory training. And then you have to sit them up. And if you don't, you got to go another five minutes. And then you're eventually, at some point, it's going to be burned in your head that at the end of this, priority number one, before I catch my own breath, before I get on the radio, before I do anything else, is to get this guy set up. Because I've been trained that I don't like the circumstances of when I don't do that.

[Mike]

And I agree. And I this is where. And I'm not saying in my history, when you make a lot of arrests and you make a lot of cases, it's almost like repetition or training. I can think of one incident where we chased a homicide suspect for a while through canals over. And when we got him, he was in this condition. He was absolutely exhausted. I didn't leave him on the ground. It was my human nature kicked in. I went, this dude's gonna die. And we're in the back seat pouring water over top, and we're getting water out of our trunk. We're feeding them water, and we'll call 91 1. Yeah, we're 91 1. Let's go. He's wanted for murder, so it's easy to go, oh, it, this guy's one for murder. Let him lay on the ground. I'm not knocking these guys, but just in general. As soon as the guy was in cuffs, my next thought was always like, this guy looks like he's gonna die. Like, he's not breathing well. He's not doing well. I'm not going to prison. Like, in my head, I went, I'm not. Not on my watch. Right to the car, right on camera. Hey, man, you want what you, you're not getting no water. You ran from this dog. I can see people saying something like that. No dog. I'm like, go get the old, I got like a 12 year old water in my backseat. I don't care what it is, go get it poured on this dude. Like, let's get him a towel. Like just naturally I had the thought like I'm not letting this guy die. And I mean, yeah, I mean that's

[Tyler]

like disproven or anything like that. Like I know we have retreated back from that idea because excited delirium does come almost very suddenly. Excited delirium goes from raging to beep. And there's like not a lot.

[Mike]

We had, we had a case where a guy was out of control on Molly, they tased him and he died like two hours later completely no problem. And they did everything right.

[Stassi Schroeder]

I think to be fair, I don't think any of us are crucifying these dudes and saying they are responsible for his death. That's not, that's not what the point of this is. However, if we can have a dialogue and a conversation where cops are watching and they can make a mental note of maybe a headache they don't want to live through and they can say because I've had guys run and I've had my guys with me and the dude's saying I can't breathe and I'm going, hey, let's set him up, everything's good now, we got him. But if we can have these dialogues to plant these seeds in cops heads and go, I'd like to avoid this headache if I can. And it's pretty easy. What's difficult is in a use of force moment of do I shoot this guy with a bat? Do I tase this guy with a bat? Do I de escalate more with a bat? That's different. But now that the obvious level of threat has been minimized and we can slow down and think. If you're so winded after five minutes that you still can't make a rational thought, probably shouldn't be a cop. We can go that route. If you're so fat and out of shape that you can't think about the well being of the person you just put in custody, that's a massive failure.

[Tyler]

That's always y' alls to go to though. That is always y'. All.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Don't be. Yes, yes.

[Tyler]

I mean at the end of the day. It's going to be like, well then maybe you shouldn't do the job like at some point people are, yeah, like, okay, like I don't even want to do.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Hold on, hold on. Do you think that everybody is, do you think everybody is qualified to be a cop? That just right off the rip they should just. We should let 82 year olds and people that are 300 pounds be like, yeah, give them a chance.

[Tyler]

But that attitude is letting all these people in and keeping people that are like, fine, it. I won't be a cop. If I, like if I was watching this right now as a third, as a third party person, I'm just watching this podcast, I'm like watching two dudes, I'm like, yeah, I'm not doing that profession that looks like. But you're gonna get. I was training 67 year old, now 57 year old people as a trainees. I'm like, I remember asking them, I'm like, I don't mean to be an. But are you gonna do 30 years or like you're probably gonna die before you retire, right? Like, how do you ask that question? They're that old, right?

[Stassi Schroeder]

That's why. I don't know. I think because I'm fairly certain we, we agree. But I, if you can't meet. I had a sergeant say that to me, right? Because I have a slick mouth. Surprised. And in my first couple years I had an issue with not understanding that I need to, to censor my mouth. And I couldn't just be a smart ass to everybody on scene, victims, traffic stops. And I was getting complained on because of my slick mouth. And my sergeant said to me, if you can't get it under control, maybe you shouldn't be a cop. And that stabbed me in the heart. But it's what I needed to go, yeah, I just can't just do whatever I want under the guise of like, well this is how I am and I have to conform.

[Tyler]

But you can't have a slick mouth in any job. So maybe, I mean again, I think that maybe you shouldn't be a cop. Thing is probably just toxicity passed on through mouth.

[Mike]

I mean maybe this is the job. What I think you have to look at relative, not anybody. We're talking to other cops just like you. If you work at Walmart, you're gonna look at the Walmart guy and go, hey, maybe you shouldn't work at Walmart because you like to steal things or you like to do whatever. So we're talking to cops when we say this. So we're talking, we're assuming who we're talking to is already in the job. Not if you have a slick mouth. You should never become a cop because maybe you can unslick it, like not say slick things when you're at work. But we're talking essentially two cops. This is a first responder like podcast. When we say it out loud, we're kind of talking to the guys that are already in the job going, hey man, if you can't watch a guy lay on the ground and not say I don't give a, or you can breathe, you're fine, and then walk away. The part for me is walking away for five minutes. I can't imagine my head where I would put a guy, even in the back of my car and not be really close to make sure he's not dying or, or not point a gun out that I might have missed or flipping his handcuffs over. But why don't you think this is

[Tyler]

a problem for the last, in the last 20, 30 years? It's just now becoming a problem since 2020. And when I say becoming a problem, it's obviously highlighted when this happens, very rarely it's a very highlighted topic. But before 2020, this excited delirium, people dying in police custody thing, other than the thing in Baltimore that was, but that was kind of sketchy in the back of the paddy wagon, I don't really remember that. But you know, this wasn't a thing and now it is a thing. So.

[Stassi Schroeder]

And I think it, I think it, I think like if anything else, it depends on the amount of exposure. I think it was a, I think for science. I went to a, for science that week long instructor class back in 2020 or 2021 and they had a lot of data and studies about asphyxiation and positional asphyxiation and how it wasn't a thing and how you needed about 700 pounds on top of a person in order for it. So kind of like putting into perspective how, how plausible the positional asphyxiation was where people were putting back, they were put in the back of a car in like a hog tie position. Was it reasonable to assume that because of that they suffocated? So I think it has been a thing. And I only say that because there was years of data they had collected in order to come to these conclusions. I just think at some point like a flavor of the week thing kind of catches on and it becomes hyper exposed because it's like when you get a blue car, you notice more people have blue cars. And so when you start talking about something, people start to notice something more not necessarily that. It's occurring more

[Tyler]

interesting.

[Mike]

Yeah, that. And obviously, when something happens like George Floyd, I think again, if you hear I can't breathe the rest of your life, what do you think of immediately?

[Tyler]

Every. It's Every black person I put in handcuffs couldn't breathe. That's what I.

[Mike]

But I'm saying, but what is the one right?

[Tyler]

All the way.

[Mike]

Did that start, though? When did that start? It started after George Floyd.

[Tyler]

George Floyd. Yeah.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Tyler]

Everybody, when they're getting handcuffed, is now going to go, I'm dying. We got to give him

[Mike]

on the ground, though. I'm not gonna leave them on the ground.

[Tyler]

What do we do? Stand them up? What if they're limp? How do we stand them up?

[Stassi Schroeder]

I'll even.

[Tyler]

We put them in the back of a car now. We're not aiding to them. And I remember George Floyd. Everybody wanted. Everybody said, you just should have thrown him in the back of the car. He would have died in the back of the car, and they would have been just as much trouble as if they just left him there maybe.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Potentially. Yeah. So to reference the. The situation that Mike and I were in where we took the guy to the ground in our IA1 of that. One of the things that dude says was, I can't breathe. So I had the bottom half, the legs. Mike had the top portion. And kind of like guiding that situation, I. When I heard that guy say, I can't breathe, I told Mike, lessen your pressure slightly on his chest. Don't get up completely. Just lessen it. Let's modify and alter a little bit of our application of pressure a little bit. But it takes such a higher level of awareness to be able to do that. And I'm not mad. I'm not taking this personal, but I can hear him saying, I can't breathe. He might be full of crap, but I can move my position slightly because of the level of control I have and still feel confident that I'm not going to lose control of this person. Even though I'm telling Mike to shift his weight just slightly.

[Tyler]

Like, I. I just. I mean, I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I don't think it should be a precision Brazilian jiu jitsu surgery to get somebody into custody. That. That being said, I don't want again. And. And then when I say stuff like that, the go to is then don't be a cop. And it's like, okay, nobody's gonna be a purple belt and BJJ and go fight people and be that articulate. With a resisting suspect to just be able to go. Even though I know he's full of. I'm not. I'm going to alter what I'm doing for the sake of wanting to make sure I'm not doing what he's saying I'm doing. And it's just at the end of the day, we. We were beating people with mag lights 20 years ago. So that does.

[Stassi Schroeder]

That's. But that falls into the this is the way we've always done it mentality. And that doesn't mean it was right. I'll ask you just to. For, for fairness, because I totally get. We don't have to agree on everything, but for fairness. Do you think you should be a good shooter if you're a cop?

[Mike]

Or.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Or can you. Is it okay to just be bare minimum you qualify?

[Tyler]

Obviously it's yes, but we aren't even getting good shooters anymore. So now we're gonna go on top of being a good shooter. You also have to be a ninja or. Don't do the job, bro. Don't do the job, bro. I mean, that's what it is. We're saying these people can't even shoot. And now we're saying also you need to be a like martial artist.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No, not a martial artist. You need to be effective in controlling humans because that's the whole thing of putting someone in handcuffs. So not a ninja.

[Mike]

Hold on. No. You sound like you're yelling at a baseball player who can't hit a baseball and can't throw. What do you mean? You. You have to throw a baseball. You have to hit a baseball. Yeah. If you're gonna be a baseball player, you have to be able to do all those things. And I think these are the qualifications of being a cop. It's basic stuff.

[Stassi Schroeder]

You should have to shoot well when

[Tyler]

the dugouts got no baseball players in it. Mike, we can't do that anymore. We're living in.

[Mike]

They pay them well, so.

[Stassi Schroeder]

And I'm not. When. Here's what I'm saying by not being a cop. When I say don't be a cop. And I revert back to my reference about when someone said that to me. That was a wake up call and it made me up my game. People who want to be cops will increase their performance to meet the standard. What we have is a multilayeral, multi layered problem of not only with the standards are not being enforced, but trainers, the training unit administrations are not even creating a culture where the standards are being defined. So how can we enforce standards that aren't even being defined where we're just. Do you have a heartbeat? Great. Here, go sit in this car. Here's some handcuffs and a gun. Good luck to you. But the expectation of being a good shooter being. Being a good fighter. Not a black belt. I'll take a six month white belt. All day. Just six months a white belt. You don't have to be a blue belt. You don't have to be. Just understand how the body works, how biomechanics works, leverage and pressure.

[Tyler]

Never been. There's never been a large community of the law enforcement. Let's say there's never been a large percentage of law enforcement that were good fighters. And now in a time when the applicancy pool has dried up to what we have now, we're going to say also need to be good fighters. It reminds me of those memes where it's like, hey, I'm putting in for an entry level job position. And they're like, you need a doctorate's degree. You need to also have 12 years experience. And you're like, this makes no sense. Like this makes no sense whatsoever. But again, I'm thinking more ideologically and big pictures.

[Mike]

Think of the process though. What do we do in the academy? You've been through it. It's a joke. We learned like arm bars and hitting people with sticks. If you included those basic things into like a six month academy. And at. Why. Why don't they train every day and take downs. Why don't they train every day in some form of pt we did in the military. Got up every morning and did pizza.

[Tyler]

Taking calls in the military.

[Mike]

No, no, I'm talking the academy. I'm talking the academy. Hear me out. Academy. Why aren't we going six months? That entire time you have these kids isolated for a job they want to do, they train.

[Tyler]

I don't think you should every academy because I think pretty strenuous.

[Mike]

Yeah. And I'm sure that. And I think Orlando has a pretty good police department. Right.

[Tyler]

Like, I mean, that's where you see it.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Yeah. That's where you see a difference in some agencies are implementing good standards. You talk about Sandy Springs and you have Ennis over there saying that their standards are pretty high. So there's such a deviation from one agency to the next. Where you have an agency that performs well, has really high standards. People that are well versed in case law and statute, they actually understand law and how to apply it. And then they have the ability to shoot and run and fight. I say fight. I just mean can you Just adequately control a human. So it doesn't have to be jujitsu. It doesn't have to be. It can be humans is part of

[Tyler]

the Mike fluctuates from it seems like defending cops to go turning into an admin episode. And now I'm like the union leader, like, hey guys, I mean we should be doing this. And then the next day it's like, you know what? I'm pissed off. We shouldn't be judging cops, you know,

[Mike]

so it's situation by situation. I mean, I've always said cops should be trained. I've never deviated from that. And I, I don't think.

[Tyler]

But it's getting worse and worse. It is not only training.

[Mike]

I want to put you in perspective. Sandy Springs Police department has about 160 people. That's a pretty good sized agency or outside of Atlanta, all of them trained. Jiu jitsu. You are basically told when you get hired, you're going to come into the station, you're going to train on your work time or let you do it. That's a huge agency outside of Atlanta with a lot of crime. So it's not impossible for that model. It's not impossible for that to happen. It just to me starts with the, the agency, the leaders and making that the priority. I want you to go to your kids games, I want you to have all those things. I want you to go do all that other stuff and have a life and. But when we, when you work 8 hours, 12 hour shifts, there's no reason to not implement in the things required for the job.

[Tyler]

And I agree with that. And I agree with that. But at the end of the day, we're sitting here saying, okay, well, we're going to take this city that no one's heard of unless you know who Jordan Ennis is. And this needs to be the standard. And it's like, yeah, everybody agrees on that, right? But until 99.99 of the rest of the country in law enforcement gets rid of shitty admin, builds morale and starts doing good training, we're gonna hang out the lowest end of the totem, pull out to dry. Until that happens, that's what's going to happen, is that you not getting the training that you need, not, not not being called out for the expectations that you should be setting or you should be achieving, you are going to be hung out to dry. That's going to be the model so far.

[Stassi Schroeder]

And it is unfortunate. It is an unfortunate circumstance.

[Tyler]

Admin answer right there.

[Stassi Schroeder]

No, no, no. It's very unfortunate.

[Tyler]

And sorry about that.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Can I finish? So it's unfortunate that administration there will not be changes until there's dead bodies or there's no one or, or there's no one signing up to do the job. People in a department that should have 500 and then more important people go what in the heck is going on here? And then there's a force change. Weak men are not going to make changes based on observable data and observable observable success unless someone forces them because they've created a situation that's unsustainable anymore.

[Tyler]

So I, I, I, that's what I proposed last week. I said everybody should not be cops. Everybody, everybody should quit. And it's and at the end of day what did I say? I said let the sheep fend for themselves if they're going to take the sheepdogs fangs away and okay then you're on your own. Everybody. And then that's going to be the only way. And like you said in a 500 man department when there's two applicants for the year and they've got 50 people retiring it's those people in admin are never going to go dude this is my fault. They're just going to stay there. It's going to take people, it's going to take a lot of crime in the cities and it's going to take people electing new leaders who are Republican and people those people electing new chiefs and sheriffs or I guess you can't elect a sheriff but getting new police admin in there who want to create the Sandy Springs model and then that but that'll take 100 years usually requires

[Stassi Schroeder]

a tragedy and my, my biggest point is it usually requires a tragedy before people go huh I guess we should do just like the Tasers not being in that situation with the bat. They don't standard issue tasers in 2026 where it's at that intermediate and it's not an answer, it's not a catch all. It's not going to apply in every everything but it is an a tool that has proven to be effective sometimes and to not have that there and cops getting hung out to dry because they didn't have tavern but they go someone has to look at the agency

[Mike]

and go what are you guys honest to you if you, if I told you that like it almost when when Sal told me they don't have mdts, they don't have computers in their cars where he works because does that not in your. It's insane that's what I'm saying. It's not. I'm not blaming the cops. I'm blaming. Ultimately my biggest enemy is the administration. It's like you've created kind of like with the guy we talked to yesterday about the NYPD and how all their administration is just politicians doing what's best for them. Same thing. Can you. If I pulled cops and said can, do you think there's a nation left in our agency left in this nation without computers in the car? I believe we'd be in the high 90. That says not possible. I got a computer in my car in 2002.

[Tyler]

Mid-90s.

[Mike]

Exactly. But we have police agencies in probably the worst state in America as we're seeing for cops getting over, doesn't have computers. And everybody was like, taser, Taser, Taser, Taser. Well, the guys on the back call don't have them. As much as I hate the Taser and I hate Axon, you still probably should have it available for the times it does work and it's a good option to get to if you decide to. But to not have them in an agency like that size in a disaster state like, it blows my mind. And who sits. Some dude is elected or appointed who sits up there every day goes, gets his coffee and donuts and has a good time at the. With all the politicians going, hey, sir, your agency doesn't have Tasers. Doesn't matter. Been a great day. I'm going to go golf or whatever. What the are they doing? Like, what is their job?

[Stassi Schroeder]

They don't even have long guns. Long guns are not standard issue to everybody. How are you responding to active shooters? The potential. I'm not saying a long gun is the answer and everything, but it's definitely a tool you'd like to have case that the equation calls for it. But one of the things you said also is that we keep going back to more training, more training. And I think that's becoming more of a default answer because even you, Tyler, myself, we both have 10 years. What have we even noticed in the hiring standards? They've declined. We know that we're like back 20 years ago, they weren't hiring as many soup sandwiches as they are now. And the more you hire soup sandwiches, the more you're going to see a default answer of poor performance that could be fixed with training. But these people that are hired under poor standards are now getting into leadership positions and continuing the cycle of poor standards because they never saw the. They never saw the, the, the value in standards and performance and you're going

[Tyler]

to get soup sandwich calls like this and it's going to happen more and more and more and more again.

[Stassi Schroeder]

Which is why to Justin, his podcast, I thought it was great where that guy was talking about exit strategies. If you don't have something a backup where you are marketing yourself outside of this job. You are absolutely.

[Tyler]

I think Mike said that on our broadcast. Yeah, well.

[Mike]

Oh, we're over.

[Tyler]

Yeah. We got to start the Patreon portion if anybody's watching or. Or I guess you can't listen live. But if anybody's watching live and you want to catch the second hour where we go a little bit more in depth than the broadcast and we shoot the with everybody, you got to get on Patreon. Any paid tier membership will. We'll get you in. So it doesn't matter which one is as long as it's paid. And we'll see you in there for about what, 12:15?

[Mike]

Yeah, that's good. All right.

[Tyler]

All right, JoJo, I'll see you later. Are you coming to the Patreon one?

[Stassi Schroeder]

No, I gotta go study Study case law.

[Mike]

Just gotta go study case law for the next episode.

[Tyler]

I just pumped her up, dude. She's like, now I'm gonna. All right, guys, we'll see you in 1215 and Patreon only. JV team for life.

[Stassi Schroeder]

High interest debt can be a real vibe killer. Credit cards, personal loans, and more can make you feel uncomfortable even in the sanctuary of your own home. Well, what if you knew that SOFI could help you leverage your home's equity to feel more at ease? It's called a SOFI Home Equity Loan, and it could consolidate your debt at a typically lower interest rate than existing debt with lower monthly payments, and all while keeping your existing mortgage rate. View your [e-mail] payoff debt today. Mortgages originated by SOFI bank and a member FDIC NMLS 696891. Terms and conditions apply. Equal housing lender.