← The AOFAS Orthopod-Cast
The AOFAS Orthopod-Cast
Safe and Appropriate Use of Social Media
00:16:51
The AOFAS Orthopod-cast Committee hosted by Dr. Anish Kadakia with committee members Drs. Matt Conti, Bret Smith, Joe Park, Nick Strasser, and Pam Luk talk about their experiences and reducing stress with use of social media. For additional...
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to AOFAS Ortho Podcast, where leaders in foot and ankle orthopedic surgery discuss the issues that affect you and your practice. Please note that the views expressed on this podcast do not necessarily represent the views of the AOFAS or its members.
- [00:28]
B
So welcome to the AOFS Ortho Podcast. Today we're going to talk about social media and really online presence with Google Reviews and how we all try to manage that ethically, safely and without stress. My name is Anish Khadakia, ankle man on Instagram. With my great crew, I got Matt, Brett, Joe, Nick and Pam. We're gonna talk about our experiences. So, Matt, you're the, I think you're the youngest one here and you're in New York, where people are a little bit more difficult, I would say, to deal with. How do you manage your social media? Do you have an Instagram Facebook account?
- [01:04]
C
Yes, when I started, I did have an Instagram account and then I talked to HSS marketing and then they told me that everyone that goes on my Instagram account needs a consent. And so that was the end of that. Basically, if you imagine every time you like, if you like took a picture at AOFAS and then there's like someone speaking, I'm like, not if I can go up to that person, get a consent. And so then I got nervous about it and I was like, maybe I don't need this because for me, I feel like there's a lot of pitfalls and I don't maybe know them all and I just don't want to get in trouble. And so I've really, I thought it was going to be great, but I've been busy enough at hss, so I just, I just really stopped doing it because I'm scared.
- [01:40]
B
That's it. So that's a valid concern 100%. You should be scared of Instagram. I think if you look at, for those of us that do some Instagram and if you look at some of these high profile, high flyers, a lot of them gotten fired, some have gotten their license taken away. Not, not Ortho, but there are some who've lost everything because of Instagram and not understanding how serious it is when you start posting things, which I'll get into a little bit, so everybody knows. I think part of it is if you do Insta, you should have some sense and limitations.
- [02:12]
D
So, Brett, I am probably the worst social media influencer in the world. I probably have influence over nobody, especially my kids. I really am not huge on social media component. I kind of just think that it's my life, need to see it. I'm fine with that. So yeah, I don't do a ton of it from that standpoint. Personally.
- [02:34]
B
Perfect. Joe.
- [02:36]
E
Same here. I don't do anything on social media. I told my wife one time that movie the Usual Suspects, I kind of wish I was like Kaiser Soze. And then she was like. She pointed out though that he kills people. So it's not quite the right.
- [02:51]
D
Well, there's a downside to it, I guess.
- [02:53]
E
It's not quite the right analogy.
- [02:54]
F
All the negatives exactly.
- [02:56]
E
But, but I think we talk, you know, when you talk about separating your work from your life, it's for me hard to do that if I'm introducing my work life into social media.
- [03:08]
B
But it's a great, it's a great point because remember in social media people can evidently dm. I've learned that over the last few years. They can message you directly now all over the world and it can become annoying. So I think, you know, plus I just want everyone in the audience to know Brett and Joe are really AARP members in the next week.
- [03:24]
D
I've got my card right here. Hold on.
- [03:27]
B
So I think the older generation is not familiar with it, doesn't want to do it and we're kind of trained to keep our life out of everybody else's eyes. So Nick, you're younger, not ARP yet.
- [03:41]
F
Closer than you think.
- [03:43]
D
I'll get you a discount.
- [03:46]
F
I'm on predominantly on LinkedIn and then a little bit on Instagram, but actually done a little bit more on YouTube and that's kind of an interesting avenue and it's kind of very general case based discussion of generalities of how we approach some different things. But it's been interesting just to kind of see like the different interest from different people who interact on that. But to your point, you do have to be careful because that was one of the things I really struggled with is what kind of things are worth posting or I feel safe posting, trying to be sensitive to not reveal anything that would be sensitive to anybody but still putting stuff out there that's meaningful. But there's a lot of kind of self promotion that goes on with it too. And I think that's the part that there's a balance there to do stuff that's, that's helpful for, for education and, and still not like oh, look at how great I am because that, that gets annoying and I think people see through that.
- [04:49]
B
What's your goal with your social media? So some people's goal is glorification. I think all of us are guilty of that at some level. There's education for patients, there's getting patients education to other surgeons. What, what's your, what makes you do it? Financial direct gain, as far as I can tell.
- [05:10]
F
Yeah, that's a great question. And I kind of ask myself all the time, you know, what that looks like. I have kind of developed a niche, if you will, within targeting like education, specifically for those who are in medical sales. So kind of approaching it from like the perspective of why we're doing what we do from just the understanding. I mean, because there's all these like, we're here at, we have all the exhibit hall, there's all these shiny widgets that are out there, but instead kind of like nobody really, I think, gets the story behind what's going on, what we're thinking as a surgeon as we get into the case. So it's kind of talking through, hey, this is what we're seeing on the workup, the pre op, the post op. This is what we're trying to get and look at on the fluoros. This is plan A, this is plan B. And just trying to get some sense for like how you pivot in those spaces. And the goal of it, I guess was basically just to figure out a way to generate content. I was trying to build up a little bit of, I think it's a little bit of practice promotion as well as you try to. Because I just switched jobs three years ago and let patients find me. And I think that's kind of the genesis for me. And I'm still trying to figure out where I want to take it, but it's been kind of an interesting journey.
- [06:34]
B
Pam, do you do any.
- [06:36]
G
I don't do anything. I have LinkedIn and Instagram, but I don't really post. And to kind of Nick's point, if I were to do something, I think I would really want to do it for patient education to maybe just minimize the repetition of showing how to put on an ankle brace or an ankle wrap. And I think it would help just kind of be a little bit more efficient or even just doing something like a YouTube video or something short to tell patients like how to prepare for a clinic visit. I find that they don't retain a lot of what they like, we tell them in an office visit because they're just so anxious about it. And so if they know to bring their discs, bring their copies of medical records, it would just make their visit so much better for both of us. But I'm not sure again with the fear factor of what the pushback or what it would do for me, the problems of it. So I haven't really gone that route.
- [07:37]
B
So, you know, I obviously do a lot on Instagram and I initially started it just to promote the fellowship, that people knew what I do and that I'm good at the job and we should at least know who we are and you can make a better decision. And then it turned into the nonsense that it is now that people across the world, you know, wanted more of what you do. And so I do it mostly for surgeon education. It's kind of where I ended up. And there's some promotion, right. I'm an arthrex consultant, so a lot of it is arthrex stuff that I put on there. So I think, you know, all of us have to be honest with ourselves. You know, anybody that says to do everything egalitarian is a liar. No one's egalitarian. Not even Gandhi or anybody was. In the end, if you really look at it, we're not. We have a little selfishness, but most of it is trying to be honest and educate. I did this, it didn't work. And it's been a lot of fun. Patients around the world will ask me, hey, what do I do here? What should I do? And initially I was really involved and that's a terrible idea because there's no limit and filter on that. So you have to be a little cautious on answering the direct messages from patients on social media, because all the barriers you've designed, which I've designed to stop patients from bothering me constantly so I can maintain my sanity, that goes away. So now I tell a patient dm, like I'll give them. I'll tell you, this is what I think. And you should find a local surgeon. I'm happy to help you find someone locally, anywhere in the world. I know enough people, I'll help you find someone versus trying to get them through all of their care. And it's fun. I feel like interact with lots more people. So I think there's some joy to it. But then patients find you. And I will tell you, ultimately, most patients that find you off Instagram, if that's your main goal, which Nick does some of that, it's actually a problem. The Instagram patient may not be the best patient for you. I'm not saying they're all bad, but if that's your goal is to get patients and too much self promotion, like, I do this and nobody else is ever, I'M the best. I would caution everybody to do that. And your fear is my hospital. Same thing. We have to get a consent from every patient. I get verbal consent from. Can I just use it on Instagram? But you gotta be, gotta be careful. Once it's out there, it's out there. Right? And be careful what you post, be careful what you say. You know, these are all permanently out there. So, you know, if we used in a court of law against you, you don't want to, you know, if somebody has an X ray like Brett has an X ray if he did post. And I'm like, well, that's a. That implant from that company is no good. Well, remember, you now put everybody at risk. You said something bad about Brett, that implant. You could put yourself at risk for libel. Like, you know, just keep your mouth shut is my answer. I don't comment on anything except cars. Like, great car, but otherwise, if you're on social media, don't comment. Keep your mouth shut because you're owned by the hospital system too. So just let sleeping dogs lie. If it doesn't look good to you, you don't need to say anything to like puff up your chest because it can get the other person in trouble who may not be intending to make a mistake, and it can put you a liability too. So it's, it's.
- [10:43]
D
I think Anish puts nice car, but mine's cooler and posts that back up to us.
- [10:46]
B
Hey, there's a liability.
- [10:48]
G
So. So, Aneesh, how did you kind of, when you made the decision to kind of be more involved in that arena, are you self taught or did you. What did you go through to kind of make that decision to know the.
- [11:00]
B
Right things to do, just self taught. I started posting some random stuff. I asked some residents, but then I just followed a bunch of people. Like Caitlin would post stuff, Dan Patton would post stuff, and a couple other people would post. I was like, how do these people, like Kevin Martin, like, how do you post? What do you post? And I just. Then I downloaded a bunch of apps and so I do all. It's a, It's a tremendous amount of effort and work to do this, and I have no idea what the value is. I don't know what your return on investment is.
- [11:32]
E
What are, what are some of the most dangerous things you've seen? Like other surgeons posting? For example, I see people post X rays from their surgery that they just performed, which to me is insane. And sometimes the X rays look terrible and they're out there and then people are making comments about that. But what like from your perspective, what are the most dangerous things you've seen?
- [11:54]
F
Well, I think the ones that get really annoying is the post of the media post op without any follow up. And that's what I love, that's what you do so well Aneesh is that you show the case and you show it from beginning to end. And I think that's what's so much value in what you do because you see actually the full outcome. So I think that gives a lot of credibility to what you're doing. The comments section I think is, is interesting. I commented, I think on one of your posts or somebody else's. I actually had a patient come in and tell me oh I found you because you commented on like your post and he was like it was a good patient. Like he was a bad patient and.
- [12:32]
D
Ruined his practice by the way.
- [12:34]
F
But it was interesting like his comment to me and I don't know if this is true and how other people, other patients perceive it, but he said if you care enough about your job to like do something like that and comment about that on somebody else's stuff, I thought that's who I want to go see. And is it true or not? I don't know. But it's just, it is interesting to see who sees it and who doesn't, you know. So I think the kind of going back to your original question though, what's the most dangerous? I think it's the stuff that's out there that really doesn't have any follow up and you don't see what the overall long term outcome is because they just post this crazy case. You need to have some follow up to it. And unfortunately some of the worst are going to be I think it's the med device companies that will say oh congratulations to Dr. So and so on completing this case without any long term follow up and any data behind it. So that's the stuff that gets annoying.
- [13:31]
B
To me I think when you look at that same question from a different perspective, what's the most dangerous for you as a poster? I don't think posting intraoperative videos and I've talked to friends of mine and I've given them my two cents. Posting an intraoperative video of you talking to the camera while the patient's in the or doing anything goofy fun sound. But you should not do that. If you look at any of my posts I'm not telling you I'm like some sort of dull weather for this but I'll have interoperative Pictures and stuff like that, which I show to the patient immediately afterwards. But you're not taking away. You're not goofing around and talking to a camera while the patient's anesthesia. And I've told people like, look, you need to stop doing this because. And if you're a patient, back to what Matt said, what would you want your doctor to be doing? Patients, they tell you, can you take pictures of what you did? So the rep will take pictures or somebody takes pictures for me. Like, take a picture, take a picture. Half second pause is okay. But if you're doing surgery, like, hey, look at this, what I'm doing here. Your only job when you operate is that patient and perfection. Anything else is nonsense. You can take videos of it moving, like, look at the motion. But I share that with the patient. These are all for you too. And can I post it on Instagram? But when you start doing this by personal beef, it's taking away from the patient. So if God forbid, the patient had a bad outcome and you posted you talking on a video or doing something nonsense, you're done.
- [15:04]
D
Think about how it looks in court.
- [15:05]
B
Yeah, you're done. So that's. I would advise any young surgeon, don't do that. Don't put yourself at risk. It's pointless. You're not here to have fun. Patients don't like that. So I think so. Long story, social media, I think, you know, get permission, post your X rays with follow up. Like Nick says, you know, don't post a crazy case that you are. You remember, you influence people. So somebody does what you did and then it goes wrong in six months and you didn't do a good job and it went to hell. Like, you should make sure people know, like, hey, this didn't go well before you post it. And be careful what you post while you're taking care of patients. Like, remember the opportunity was sacrosanct. Nobody videos us, nobody watches us. Patients are suspicious of us for the right reasons, evidently. And so don't put anything out there that shows that you're doing something that's not all about the patient. That's my best advice, you know, and I, I think it'll keep you safe and it's the right thing for the patient. Our job is them and no one else at that given moment.
- [16:04]
D
Our job is not to be an influencer.
- [16:07]
B
Do it on the side. All that matters is that patient's outcome. That's your job. You know, it's an interesting topic. It's going to change as we get more younger surgeons out there. I think it'll change a lot. So thank you for listening. We'll redo this in a few years and see if maybe, you know, Joe and Brett and Pam join the bandwagon or not.
- [16:28]
A
Thank you for listening to the AOFAS Ortho Podcast, a Convey Med production. To learn more about joining our dynamic community of highly skilled orthopedic specialists, visit aofas.org.