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- [00:00]
Brett McKay
The holidays are stressful for everyone, but if you run a business, that stress gets cranked way up. I still remember the first time I sold products for the Art of Manliness. During the holidays. I was living in this tiny apartment with a newborn baby, staying up late in the kitchen, trying to be as quiet as possible, packing orders, printing shipping labels and hoping I didn't mess anything up. That was before Shopify. Once we switched, everything changed. We've used Shopify for over a decade now and every holiday season runs smoother because of it. Their site templates make it easy to get a great looking store up fast. The built in AI tools help write product descriptions when you're exhausted. The marketing features keep your products visible when everyone else is shouting for attention and shop. Pay makes checkout quick, which means more completed sales and fewer abandoned carts. If this is your first Black Friday or Cyber Monday, make it easier on yourself. Start with Shopify. Sign up for your free trial@shopify.com manliness that's shopify.com manliness shopify.com manliness do you.
- [00:56]
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- [01:43]
Brett McKay
Hey, this is Brett. We're taking a break this week from a new episode because it is Thanksgiving here in the United States. So we're going to rebroadcast Episode number 973, A Butler's Guide to Managing your household. Hope you enjoy it. Happy Thanksgiving. Eat lots of turkey. Lots of pie. We're grateful for you for listening the show. We'll see you next week with a brand new episode. Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness Podcast. It's a tough job to manage a household. Things need to be regularly fixed, maintained and cleaned. How do you stay on top of these tasks in order to keep your home in tip top shape? My guest knows his way all around this issue and has some field tested insider advice to offer. Charles McPherson spent two decades as the major domo or chief butler of a grand household. He's also the founder of North America's only registered school for butlers and household managers and the author of several books drawn from his butlering experience, including the Butler Speaks Return to Proper Etiquette, Stylish Entertaining, and the Art of Good Housekeeping. In the first part of our conversation, Charles charts the history of domestic service and describes why the practice of having servants like a butler and maid ebbed in the mid 20th century but has made a comeback today. We then turn to what average folks who don't have a household staff can do to better manage their homes. Charles recommends keeping something called a butler's book to stay on top of household schedules and maintenance checklists. We then discuss how to clean your home more logically and efficiently. Charles shares his golden rules of house cleaning, a cleaning task you've probably neglected. Go take a look at the side of the door of your dishwasher is a pricing choice for best product to use to clean your shower, how often you should change your bed sheets, and much more after the show is over. Check out our show notes @AWIM is Butler. All right? Charles McPherson, welcome to the show.
- [03:41]
Charles McPherson
Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here.
- [03:44]
Brett McKay
So you have served as a professional butler for over two decades, and you now run an organization that trains butlers and other professional domestic staff. And I think most people, when they think of butlers, they think of butlers as men who served English aristocrats and American robber barons, you know, the 19th and early 20th centuries. But Butlerine is still alive and well today. And I want to talk what it looks like today. But before we do, can you kind of give us a brief history of domestic service? What was it like a hundred years ago? When did it reach its peak, et cetera.
- [04:18]
Charles McPherson
So that's a great question because I think understanding history allows us to really understand where we are today. So let's very briefly, let's start back, you know, 150 years ago or so. We're in the Victorian era. Queen Victoria is on the throne, and there is a huge amount of domestic staff. In fact, it's the second largest employer, if you will, in the United Kingdom compared to farming after. Right after farming, which is number one. And so these people are required that the amount of domestic staff are required because the homes of the day didn't have running water, didn't have electricity. And so for the wealthy to live, as we all know, when we watch PBS and, you know, watch, you know, Agatha Christie and so on. That took a mountain of people to be able to undertake. And so that's the height of the most number of domestic people. And then we go, you know, Queen Victoria dies, her son, King Edward, you know, so we go into the Edwardian era, World War I, and now for the first time in history, we have people leaving domestic service. And so all of a sudden, this is when men start to leave domestic service, really. And so now this is where, you know, women are starting to really become prominent in domestic service. And they're now serving at the dining room table, which society is shocked by to see a woman in the front of the house. And then all of a sudden, you know, we go through World War II. Now we're into the 1950s, and all of a sudden the world has changed. And, you know, there is now the modern conveniences based on the war. So we have clothing that's available, we have food that's available. We can go to groc. And so being in domestic service is a dying art. And as we go into the 60s, into the 70s, there is no one going into domestic service. It really has come to an end, and it's just the very few that are left. But then we get into, you know, 1980, and Ronald Reagan becomes president, Margaret Thatcher becomes Prime Minister, and we have Reaganomics. And now all of a sudden, we have a huge amount of wealth that's being created by a very small group of people. And so as they acquire their wealth and they start to acquire toys of homes and boats and airplanes, you know, they want to live comfortably. And so all of a sudden there's, you know, well, let's hire a butler. But there really are no butlers except some old timers. And so all of a sudden there's this demand for butlering, and people start to go back into private service. And so all of a sudden, you know, as we get into, you know, 2,000 and up, all of a sudden there's a huge amount of demand for private service because the wealthy continue to be wealthy and to generate money. And so it's incredible the career that it's become. And so now it's really a career where you can make a lot of money and where it's no longer being in servitude like you were 150 years ago, but being in domestic service today is actually an honorable career. And so it's really interesting how it went from the height to almost being extinct in the 60s and early 70s. And now all of a sudden, here we back are at 20, 24. And there is more demand for domestic service than can actually meet. So the supply, we just don't have the supply.
- [07:07]
Brett McKay
That's interesting. So at its peak, you know, when, in the Victorian era, when you had just a household of staff, if anyone's seen Downton Abbey, they've probably. That's. Probably that's what people typically think of domestic service. Like, how many people did a typical aristocrat have in their home?
- [07:23]
Charles McPherson
Well, so, I mean, you know, when you think about it, it really comes down to what was the size of the house. But I mean, some people could have, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 or 100. So it was all, you know, remember, you know, farming was all done by hand, so there was a huge am amount of people on the estate just dealing with the farms, which generated income for the estate. But to run the inside of the household, you know, there's no microwave, there's no fridge, there's no electric mixer, so, you know, just in the kitchen alone, to be able to produce the meals they did, you needed an army of people. And then the washing of all the dishes and all that stuff was done by hand, of course, because there are no dishwashers, there's no electricity. And so those houses, you know, often had 20, 30, sometimes 40 people, because that's how much staff it took to be able to make all that happen.
- [08:04]
Brett McKay
And the butler at that time, like, his job was just to oversee that, manage all that.
- [08:08]
Charles McPherson
So the butler at the time, so if we go, you know, in that in the 1800s, the butler at that period is really, yes, he's running the household and he's the one who serves that table and he's the lead, but he's really running the front of the house. So he's running everything that the guests and the family see. And it's the head housekeeper who runs the back of the house who is dealing with the housekeepers and the laundry and all that kind of stuff. And then chef was responsible for the kitchen. And if you were really fancy back then, you had a French chef that was de rigueur of the time. So butler really is front of the house, head housekeeper is back of the house and chef is the kitchen. So it's still interesting that there's still three very senior positions, but the butler ultimately was responsible for overall everything.
- [08:50]
Brett McKay
And then you highlight in this history that you did of domestic service, that in the 19th century and early 20th century, there's all these really detailed guides really written by butlers and other domestic servants on how to do what they do with the professionalism. Like they really took their job seriously.
- [09:07]
Charles McPherson
Yes, absolutely. And I think that. Well, you know what's interesting is that when Mrs. Beaton wrote her book on household management in 1861, that's considered the first self help book to ever be written. And that was as we've gone through and we get the first industrial revolution, we're getting into the second industrial revolution in the 1870s. So all of a sudden we have the birth of this middle class and so they to live. But the problem is they don't know how to live. And so Isabel Beaton writes this book on household management, teaching the middle class how to run a home and if they are lucky enough to have a servant or two, how to manage them and so on. So it's actually quite interesting. So as that first book kind of takes popularity and is still in print today, which is quite interesting, and that is then, you know, we have other people who see that and everyone kind of jumps on the bandwagon and everyone says, well, if she can write a book, I can write a book. And so that's where you have all these books being written in the late 1800s, early 1900s.
- [10:05]
Brett McKay
But I think it's interesting, speaking of how domestic service started to WANE in the 20th century, I think it's interesting that whenever I read biographies or histories of famous people who were, they weren't rich, they were probably solidly middle class, maybe upper middle class. Even in the early 20th century, they would usually have a maid and a cook. And you rarely see that today.
- [10:29]
Charles McPherson
Well, I mean, when you think about it again, those homes were hard to manage. They didn't necessarily have running hot water. A lot of things were still, you know, oil lamps and so, or candles at nighttime. So all that had to be taken care of into the dust and the soot, which is actually how, you know, spring cleaning came to be because everything was closed up all winter. And so you had all this soot and dust in the house from your lighting implements. But you know, if you were middle class, you usually at least had a housekeeper, or I should say a maid. A housekeeper is different from a maid. They're two different things.
- [10:57]
Brett McKay
What's the difference?
- [10:58]
Charles McPherson
So a housekeeper is truly a professional who is able to manage the household, if you will. You know, employees can report to her. Where a maid is just the worker bee, if you will. The maid isn't, isn't in management position. So the management position is really the housekeeper or the head housekeeper.
- [11:15]
Brett McKay
Okay. And so, yeah, through the mid 20th century, many middle, upper middle class families had that. But then eventually it went away.
- [11:23]
Charles McPherson
Well, it went away because, you know, the world is changing and first of all, you know, the cost is becoming prohibitive. But what's fascinating is that During World War I and World War II, we were able to mass produce, to be able to keep the war machines going. When the war comes to an end, there's this excess of capacity for production. And so that's why all of a sudden foods and clothing and everything become so readily available after World War II, because the capacity to, of these factories is there and they have nothing else to do. And so they start producing for the mass markets. And as we get the, you know, the birth of the middle class that continues to grow in the 1950s, it allowed you to be able to function without staff.
- [12:02]
Brett McKay
Right, because you have washing machines, dryers, vacuum cleaners.
- [12:06]
Charles McPherson
Exactly. All those things are starting to come in. And so, you know, those appliances that are saving time, you know, at the time, when you think about it, particularly in America, you know, the dream was, you know, 2.2 kids and a dog and a white picket fence, and mom stayed home and took care of the house while dad worked. And so she kind of fairly or unfairly, you know, becomes the mate and takes over, but at least she has the appliances to be able to make it easier. It's not easy, but to make it easier.
- [12:29]
Brett McKay
Okay, so domestic service started going down throughout the 60s and 70s, but then in the 80s you started to see the revival of it.
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Charles McPherson
Yeah.
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Brett McKay
How did you get involved in butlering and then how did you learn how to be a butler when like, it kind of became a lost art?
- [12:42]
Charles McPherson
So what's fascinating is that in the 1990s, you know, I was in the catering business, I was in the off premise catering business. And one of my clients was one of Canada's wealthiest families that every Canadian knows and loves. And I had mentioned to the lady of the house one day, just in conversation, that I was thinking of maybe leaving the catering world and to do something else. And she said, oh my God, what are you going to do? And I said, I haven't figured it out. And she said, well, you know, Rick, my butler is going to be leaving soon, so why don't you come and work for me? And so I said, well, let me think about it. And I told my mother, my mother said, absolutely not, I don't want you to be a servant. I said, well, I think it's a good job I thought about it and of course I did the Opposite of what my mother recommended. And I took the job. And so it was the lady of the house who taught me how to buttle. And so that, you know, that is a verb that is you can use correctly. And so every week she would give me lessons on, you know, how do you drive the car so the person in the backseat isn't nauseous? Or how do you get the grass stains out of her children's T shirts and jeans? What's the difference between a breakfast table, a luncheon table, a dinner table? Where does the oyster fork go? How do you open the door for someone? How do you take their coat? How do you put their coat back on? How do you walk with them with an umbrella? It was quite fascinating. So after a year, I was the major domo for the household. The family had three homes. I had up to 30 full time staff that were reporting to me throughout the year. And it was really an incredible opportunity and I call it my Shirley MacLaine, you know, moment. I don't know if there really is reincarnation, but if there is such a thing, if I am fortunate enough to be reincarnated from a previous life, I was very lucky. I was either a butler or a nobleman who had a butler. Because the career, this career just seems so logical to me and so evident of just what to do. It was never a mystery as I was learning. It just I realized that what my job was about was logic and just to think about what's logical. And that's really how my, my education became, was because of this lady and just continuing to learn on my own and, and meeting others.
- [14:31]
Brett McKay
So back 150 years ago, the duties of a butler was to take care of the front of the house. What are the duties of a butler in 2024?
- [14:37]
Charles McPherson
What's a typical. So, you know, in 2024, the butler is now an expensive commodity, but the butler is actually managing the household. And so some households, the butler may be in the front of the house for serving. In some households, the butler doesn't serve. The butler is purely an administrative position. But when you think about it, the butler is actually managing the household. From a perspective of that, the average household spends more money and has as many or more employees than very small businesses in the U.S. so you're really a business person taking care of a business. And so you're taking care of everything from whether it's staff management, whether it's, you know, putting together operational manuals of how the household's going to run, when are things cleaned and when Are things maintained, taking care of accounts, you know, when plumbers are coming or electricians to fix things? Because things always break down in those homes. Making sure that those bills are authorized for payment and that that work's been completed, you know, making sure that the household is running. And so the butler today really is trying to be at least one or two steps ahead of their employer, to always be think, thinking and anticipating what's going to happen, what needs to happen for the family. And so it's quite fascinating, actually, but it's not as much of a service role, but it is a very detailed role that keeps you really busy. When you think of these large homes, they're actually commercial facilities with the amount of. When you're talking about 10, 20, 30, 40,000 square feet, we're talking about commercial cooling units and commercial kitchens. And so it becomes complicated. It's not just the little furnace that, you know, you and I grew up with and probably still have in our homes today.
- [16:14]
Brett McKay
So it sounds like a butler today is like a chief operations officer.
- [16:18]
Charles McPherson
That's a great way to put it. Absolutely.
- [16:20]
Brett McKay
Does domestic staff still live with homeowners like they did a century ago?
- [16:24]
Charles McPherson
Oh, great question. And so the answer is no. Domestic staff today have a life, they have a family, and so they don't live in. And in fact, it's hard to find people who want to live in. And if you're going to live in, you actually can make more money than if you live out, because that's considered a premium to be able to live in versus live out.
- [16:42]
Brett McKay
Okay, the way you've made it sound like, is that being a butler or being on domestic staff like this could be a lucrative, very fulfilling career.
- [16:48]
Charles McPherson
Oh, absolutely. I mean, where can you go to butler school, which is, you know, four, six, eight weeks? And, you know, you walk out with a job starting at 65, $70,000 a year, and a good butler by the time they're within five years, with the right experience, they're at 125,000, plus benefits, full benefits, and a retirement plan. And we have butlers that are making anywhere from a quarter of a million to $350,000 a year based on the home that they're managing and the work that they do. So you can make a lot of money if you're good at it. And there's nothing to be ashamed of. I think it's an honorable career to be able to manage a household. And what I love is, as I jokingly say, but it's. You're kind of seeing history happen from being a fly on the wall and watching the movie stars or the captains of industry or the politicians that are coming to the household for, you know, seeing what's happening and knowing what's going to happen before the rest of the world knows what's happening. And I think it's pretty fascinating. I think it's a really great career, and I think a lot of people don't actually think of it as a genuine career.
- [17:50]
Brett McKay
So you've written several books based on your insights and experience as a butler that can help the average person who might not. Might not be able to afford a butler, how they can improve different facets of their lives. And I want to focus on this conversation today, on what we can learn from butlers about managing a home and making it not only a place that runs efficiently, but it's pleasant to spend your time in. And I start off, you talk about that. Butlers traditionally had this thing called the butler's book. What's the butler's book? What sort of information does a butler keep in a butler's book?
- [18:23]
Charles McPherson
So the butler's book is really the bible for the butler of how the household runs, and it keeps track of everything. So whether it's, you know, contractors, telephone numbers, or how do you use the remote control to go from the DVD player to the satellite disk dish to regular cable television so that you've got the kind of like the cheat sheets in there, or you've got household schedules of when employees are working. You have things like inventory. So, for example, in my butler book, one of the things that I used to keep was all the inventories of the different chinas. So that when we were entertaining and when I'd be sitting with Mrs. In a meeting and the chef and we'd be discussing about a party that would be coming up, and, you know, everyone would say, well, you know, let's. It would be nice to use the green dishes for that thing. And then I'd be able to look in my butler's book and say, well, there's 36 people coming for dinner, and we have 35 dinner plates. So we're short a plate. So either we have to change to a different service, or I have to go buy some more of this green service, if I can find it kind of scenario. So, you know, you keep cheat sheets like that that are there for you or master things on, you know, when are you taking care of certain inventories or mechanical things around the household, or what are the spring cleaning projects and all that kind of stuff. So all that's in the butler's book. So the butler's book really is the bible. It's the one place when you need something, that's where you go.
- [19:32]
Brett McKay
And I can see this being useful for just anybody who has a house.
- [19:35]
Charles McPherson
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
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Brett McKay
Yeah. My wife and I've run into that. That experience where, you know, we're hosting a party and we think, well, do we have this thing? And like, well, I don't know, we kind of. We have to spend 30 minutes looking for it and like, well, we can't find us. Let's go buy another one. So you buy another one and then after the party happens, like, oh, here's this thing that we were looking for. We just wasted money.
- [19:55]
Charles McPherson
Exactly. No, but I think the butler's book would be able to tell you kind of thing where you keep those things. And as long as you put them back where you're supposed to, then you're in good shape. But the butler's book is really this tool that makes you more effic and more successful at doing what you want to do.
- [20:11]
Brett McKay
So what sorts of information do you think just a layperson should keep in their own butler's book for their household?
- [20:16]
Charles McPherson
I think that just keeping simple things like all your telephone numbers for, you know, the plumber, the electrician, you know, where is the electrical boxes if you have more than one in your household, and where's the main disconnect to turn the power off? And, you know, when do you open your pool, if you have a swimming pool, and when do you close it? You know, so kind of keeping a calendar or when do you want to clean the eavesdrops? When do you want to be able to deal with certain things in the yard? Or when do you want to clean the windows or put the storm windows on or take the storm windows off? When do you want to do a bit of a deep clean inside the house? And so what's interesting is that when you start to look at all these projects, when you look at the calendar, it allows you to be able to spread it out throughout over the year so that there isn't one month where you know, you have nothing to do. And in the following month, you know, you can barely keep up. So that's what's great about the calendar within the butler's book is that it allows you to kind of to plan things. So that way, you know, you can plan things ahead of time. So you know that, you know, you want to have your windows washed in April, and so in January or February as you're just kind of looking ahead of things that you know you want to do, you say, oh, you want to. Let's schedule the window cleaner now and let's get it done so that at least they're scheduled so it's not the last minute when you're trying to get a hold of them when everyone else is. And so the butler's book is really there as a tool to help you plan and just to remind you of what needs to be done.
- [21:29]
Brett McKay
Where do you recommend keeping your butler's book? Is this in a physical book that you keep around?
- [21:34]
Charles McPherson
Well, traditionally, the butler's book was always kept in the butler's pantry, which is between the kitchen and off the dining room kind of scenario. But most of us don't have butler's pantries today. So I always love it in the kitchen somewhere because I think that's where everyone can find it. And I'm also a really firm believer that, that the butler's book is a living, breathing document. And so you shouldn't be afraid to write in it when something changes or when you learn something. And so maybe it's something that just is always kind of handwritten, or maybe, you know, once a year you sit down and you type out all the changes and then you just print off a clean copy. But I think that the butler's book needs to be in a place where everyone knows where it is, everyone has access to it, and where you're not afraid to write in it to update information.
- [22:16]
Brett McKay
And I was doing some research before this conversation about modern butler's book. There's actually software that, that modern butlers can use these days where they basically create a butler's book, but it's in the cloud. So I know a lot of butlers for really affluent families who have maybe two, three, four homes. They have to know what's going on in all these different homes. So they have all this stuff just on the Internet.
- [22:41]
Charles McPherson
Yes, but I'm not a firm believer in things becoming overly computerized in a household. I think that it becomes overly complicated and you end up being a data entry person versus a manager. And so I'm actually a real firm believer that, you know, the butler's book, for example, as an example, should just be in a three ring binder that's in a place where everyone knows where it is. Now, you can keep the master document, you know, in a Word file, for example, that's in the cloud, so that, you know, you can check it from wherever you are if you need to look something up. But I'm not a firm believer that everything should be in the cloud because, you know, if the power goes out or you can't turn the computer on for whatever reason, how are we going to access this information in the cloud while we're in this emergency kind of scenario? You know that I think the theory is always really great and, and this great fantasy, but I don't think it actually works in reality. And so I think it's much easier to be able to have it printed where, you know, you can take the book with you to the mechanical room that's telling you how to do something so you can follow the steps. I think just makes it easier.
- [23:45]
Brett McKay
So you mentioned one of the things you can keep in a butler's book is a calendar of home maintenance. I know it's going to vary from location to location and home to home, but generally what, what sort of home maintenance regimen do you recommend people keep to keep their home running in tip top shape?
- [24:02]
Charles McPherson
So I think you need to first of all think about where you located. So for example, you know, if you're going to be, for example, in Florida or you're going to be somewhere warm, you're going to have obviously very many different requirements than if you are going to be up in the north, where there's snow, for example. So first of all, based on your physical location, if so, let's, you know where there's snow, which is where I happen to be right now. You know, the butler's book would say to me in October, for example, okay, so you need to get a ready because winter's coming. So do you have salt? Do you have sand? Do you have a good brush to take the snow off the car? Do you have enough windshield washer fluid? So it kind of gives you those checklists of things to do as you get ready so that once you have that first snowfall, it's not a panic kind of scenario of not being ready for it or you know, you're going to the hardware store to go and get sand or salt or whatever and it's all sold out because everyone's, you know, thinking at the last minute. And then when you're down south, you know, simple things like, you know, how do you get your house ready for hurricane season if you're in Florida, for example, or what do you need to think about if you're in Arizona, you know, from a temperature perspective, you know, from the outside of the physical house, what are you going to do for the air conditioning unit? Does it need an overhaul? Once a year, and if so, what time of the year are you going to do that? So I think you start with the location of where your house is and then the kind of home you have. You know, whether it's an apartment or whether it's a physical house or a townhouse or whatever, everything needs some kind of maintenance. And so the other thing, the reason I like the binder concept is that, you know, as you put your calendar in the butler's book, you might not think of everything right away. And so you can start to fill it in over the year as you go through the life in your household. And so when it's the first day of that first snowfall and you're not ready, you think, okay, now I know I need to get ready. And so now you make a note in your book of what you need to get ready for that particular item. You know, or when do you. When are you going to open the pool? If your pool closes in the winter because you're in the north, and when do you open it again kind of thing, or when do you want to be able to fertilize or do what you need to do to your roses that are in your garden? So I think there's always something, and I think it comes to you really easily as you go throughout the year in the life of living within your household.
- [26:10]
Brett McKay
Okay, so your household maintenance routine, it's very seasonal and as you say, it's going to vary by where you live, but you have a good annual list in the book that can apply to most everyone. So, for example, in winter you have things like vacuum your fridge coils, flip the mattresses, spring change batteries on smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors, wash the outside of the windows, have AC inspected, get your outdoor grill ready. Summer, you've got clean out and organize your garage, wash out garbage and recycle bins. And then fall, you've got have chimney cleaned and expected and then clean the dryer vent. We're going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors. So one of the things that can suck up a lot of bandwidth in your life is figuring out what to eat for dinner. And it's one of the reasons why we've used HelloFresh over the years in the McKay household. It just takes that question off the table. You pick your meals, they send the ingredients, and dinner comes together in 30 minutes. They even have some meals that can be done in 20 minutes. And this isn't the hellofresh you remember. It's gotten an upgrade. They've doubled their menu. You can now choose from over 100 different options every week, including high protein dishes, veggie packed meals, and even global recipes inspired by flavors from Thailand, Italy and beyond. And what's nice about factory meals? You get all the ingredients in the box. It's fun. The kids want to get involved, help cook the meals, and they're also more willing to eat what they help make so they get to try new foods as well. You get the exact ingredients you need, nothing goes to waste and you don't have to make a grocery run at 5pm 91% of HelloFresh customers say they feel healthier and three out of four parents say their kids eat more veggies when using it. It's no wonder hello Fresh is the number one meal kit in America. The best way to cook just got better. Go to hellofresh.com manliness10fm that's hellofresh.com manliness 10fm so 1.0fm you'll get 10 free meals plus free breakfast for life, one per box with active subscription new subscribers only. That's hellofresh.com manlight 10fm a few of my friends run small businesses and I've heard the same complaint from them all. Hiring is hard. You post a job and then you wait and half the time the applicants don't have the skills you need. That's why I've been pointing people to Indeed Sponsored Jobs. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the search results so the right people actually see it and apply. According to Indeed data, jobs sponsored directly on indeed are 90% more likely to result in a higher than non sponsored ones. That's a real edge when you need someone qualified and fast. Over 1.6 million companies sponsor jobs on Indeed and you only pay for results. No monthly fees, no long term contracts. And in the time it's taken me to read this, about 27 hires were made on Indeed Worldwide. Spend more time interviewing the right people. Go to indeed.com aom to claim your $75 sponsored job credit. That's indeed.com aom I n d E-E-D.com aom terms and conditions apply. Hiring do it the right way with Indeed.
- [29:12]
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Charles McPherson
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Brett McKay
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- [29:45]
Brett McKay
And now back to the show. Something else I'm curious about, but one of the things I've had problems with managing my own home is finding good contractors and maintenance workers. Do you have any advice on that?
- [29:58]
Charles McPherson
So, you know, finding a good person, you know, they're worth their weight in gold if you can find them. But once you do, you need to be able to stay in touch. And so that's first of all, you know, when you are looking for a tradesperson, go to your neighbors, go to people you trust, Read reviews online, but you need to be able to be clear about what are you looking for so that when you actually speak to the trade person, you can actually ask them intelligent questions because you've thought about what do you need or why, you know something needs to be fixed or repaired or why you want to build something. It doesn't matter what the situation, but you need to have a clear plan of what do I need this person to do so that you can be clear to them, so that they understand what your needs are so you can compare. And I think that, you know, when you interview two or three people, you kind of get a gut feeling right away who's the good one and who's not. And listen to your gut instinct. And then make a note of things in your butler's book of, you know, okay, so we tried John the electrician. He was really good, but he wasn't really clean. So the next time he comes, I need to make sure he knows to take his boots off before he comes in my house and so on and so forth, because the work is good, but he just was a bit messy. And so just to remind yourself that the next time John comes over, you say, okay, John, remember, I need to take your boots off. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, no problem. So I think that being clear about what you're looking for is really important because I think that's where the relationship breaks down, is that both parties aren't communicating well with each other.
- [31:21]
Brett McKay
Okay. And yes, if you find a good one, make sure you put that in your butler book.
- [31:24]
Charles McPherson
Put it in your butler book. But also, for example, you know, pay them on time because then they'll want to come back, you know, kind of scenario. So you got to Think of things like that, too, and being nice to them and offering them a glass of water on a hot day or a cup of coffee. I remember as the butler, what we used to do is we used to make muffins and coffee for every trade that would come to the house every, every day. And so we became the popular house because they all wanted to come to us first thing in the morning to get their coffee and their muffin for free. That's how I kept the trades happy. And so being nice to trades, you get it back tenfold. First of all, you should just be a nice person and they're doing a job that you need. But second of all, if you keep them happy, they're going to be more willing to come back the next time you need them.
- [32:02]
Brett McKay
Let's talk about managing the inventory in our home. So you mentioned dishes or things for parties, but I was actually having this conversation with a friend the other day, and he wanted to know, like, how much toilet paper do I really need to keep and how do I know when I need to restock? Because I'm tired of having to. When I need it the most, it's all gone. So any advice there on managing just household inventories? Could be dishes, cleaning supplies, paper towels, toilet paper, et cetera.
- [32:28]
Charles McPherson
So you're talking about two different inventories. And so, you know, if we're going to talk about furniture, fixtures and equipment, you know, which we call FF&E, that's stuff like dishes and furniture and art and all those kinds of things. So that's one kind of inventory that you're keeping. So, you know, usually we do a picture of it, and then we record how many of that item there are in inventory and where it is in the household. But the inventory that your friend is talking about is what we call a consumables inventory. And so what we're actually consuming. So everything within the kitchen, whether it's a spice or a meat or anything that's in the freezer, but then that's also cleaning supplies. And, you know, there'll also be toiletries. It'll also be makeup and shaving cream and all that kind of stuff. So those are all consumables. And so the easiest thing to do, first of all, so let's take the toilet paper. Let's answer the question to your friend, how much toilet paper do I need? So first of all, you need to figure out, you know, how many bathrooms do you have? So you have two bathrooms or three bathrooms. So right away, that's going to be one roll in each of those bathrooms, and then you want to have potentially a couple of rolls that are there for a change underneath the counter. So if we have three bathrooms, we had three rolls, plus we have two extra, so that' rolls already just to keep the bathrooms full. And then on average, you're going through, for the sake of the argument, you know, you're going through a roll a week. And so you'll know at the end of the month kind of how much you're consuming and how much you need, or, you know, you're using two, three or four a week or a month. And so what we do is we do what's called a minimum maximum inventory number. So what's the minimum number? We know we never want to have less than nine rolls of toilet paper, but we never really need more than 24. And so once a month or every two months, you count the toilet paper. And when you get down to nine, then you know, you need to order the balance to get you back up to 24. So you need to order 16 kind of thing. So it's actually simpler than you think. Once you come up with the minimum maximum, then you just set an inventory date and maybe it's once every three months kind of scenario.
- [34:20]
Brett McKay
Yeah, and I thought this, that was really interesting. You mentioned the ffe, the furniture, fixtures and equipment inventory. Yeah. This would be good for any household to do because this is important for insurance purposes. Right. You want to know if you have art or furniture. You want to have a picture of it and, like, you know, value of it. Because if your house, you know, God forbid, burns down, you'll be able to have a reference to your property. You say, here's what I had, and you start making claims.
- [34:48]
Charles McPherson
So what's interesting is that most people are underinsured and the insurance companies will tell you. And so nobody really wants to spend their weekend doing, you know, a household inventory. But let me tell you, God forbid you should ever need it. You'll be the happiest person in the world to have that. Because if, God forbid, something happens to your house and you need to make an insurance claim, they're going to want to see all that kind of stuff. And you know what's interesting is the insurance company, you know, if you're insured, for the sake of the argument, for $100,000, the insurance company doesn't just write you a check for $100,000, you have to actually go and buy the stuff, and the insurance company reimburses you. So that's, I think, important. To know right there. And second of all, you know, maybe you're insured for $100,000, but maybe you have $150,000 worth of stuff that you didn't think about. And so now all of a sudden, you. You have less than when you started. So, you know, do you have a stamp collection or do you have china or silverware or jewelry? Do you have books kind of stuff? What kind of art do you have? What kind of household tools do you have? All that kind of stuff is important. And so doing an inventory really helps you understand what kind of insurance coverage you need and then what you have in case of an emergency.
- [35:57]
Brett McKay
Okay, we talked about home maintenance, talked about managing toilet paper inventory, talked about managing your big inventory in your house. Let's talk about keeping our homes clean. First question is, what do you think are the pros and cons of cleaning your own house versus hiring someone to clean it for you?
- [36:14]
Charles McPherson
I think the main thing is if you're going to do it yourself is do you have the time to do it properly? And if you do, and if you want to do it on your own, then I think that's great. Then go for it. But if you don't have the time and you want to hire someone, that's okay, too. But the biggest mistake is that people aren't clear about what they want. And so a cleaning person will come in and do what they think needs to be done. And then you're upset. Well, I can't believe they didn't clean the chandelier. Da, da, da. Well, well, you know, they only had three hours to be in your house. They can't do everything or, you know, they didn't iron the sheets. Well, are they supposed to? Did you talk about that before you hired them? And so most people don't have a proper job description in place. And that's, I think, where things fall apart the most is that the expectations are one thing and the deliverables are another. And no one's speaking to each other about what they're going to do. And so people are disappointed. So I think being clear about what your needs are if you're going to hire someone. But I think that whether you hire someone or you do it yourself, I don't think there's a right or wrong way. I think it just comes down to time. And if you can afford that.
- [37:17]
Brett McKay
Yeah, in the book, you make a distinction between house cleaning, housekeeping, and deep cleaning. What are the differences between the three?
- [37:25]
Charles McPherson
Yeah, so deep cleaning is really when you're pulling Something apart. So you're cleaning the chandeliers, you're wiping the baseboards, you're lifting the carpets, you're taking the pillows off the couch, and you're vacuuming inside the couch and underneath the couch. And so you're really pulling the room apart is a deep cleaning. House cleaning is really just taking care of the house on a weekly basis, usually or twice weekly, where you're vacuuming, you're dusting, but you're just keeping things going. You're not doing the deep cleaning. And then housekeeping is really making a house, a home and making it feel inviting that things are where they should be and that you need. So, you know, the housekeeping is everything overall. How do you feel within that space? House cleaning is what we do on a weekly or bi weekly basis or twice weekly. And then deep cleaning is those special projects, you know, when we flip the mattresses, when we turn carpets around so that they wear evenly in every direction. So those are always the big jobs.
- [38:24]
Brett McKay
Let's talk about just house cleaning. You have these golden rules of house cleaning. What are some of those golden rules of house cleaning?
- [38:30]
Charles McPherson
Well, the golden rules of housekeeping or cleaning are really about making sure that you're organized and that you have the right tools, that you have the right chemicals, and that you're working methodically throughout the household. And you're starting in one place and you're working towards another so that you know where you are at any one point. And so the golden rules are making sure that, you know, we don't cross contaminate. And so making sure that, you know, we understand that we have different cloths for different locations. And so we're not using the bathroom cloth in the kitchen or in the bedroom and so on and so forth. And one of the golden rules that we remember also is remember that you know, when you're cleaning from a room, you always start from the top and you work your way down because dust, of course, falls. So that's why you don't want to work from the bottom up. And so the golden rules are just about being logical about what we need to do.
- [39:16]
Brett McKay
So one of the ways you recommend being logical and efficient about cleaning your house is to have cleaning list. So just as your butler's book should have a maintenance list for your home, you have different cleaning lists broken down by daily, weekly and monthly. So here in the book, you got daily cleaning on the list, tidy clutter, wipe down counters and stovetop weekly. You want to give each room in the house a good cleaning. Dust all the surfaces, vacuum all the floors, clean the bathroom. That includes cleaning the shower, toilet and counters, replace the sheets on your bed. And a point you make on the weekly cleaning is that you don't have to do all this in one day. You can break it up throughout the week. So, you know, one day you do the bathrooms, another day you do the bedrooms and you know, the next day you do the kitchen. And then for the monthly list, you have things like, you know, scrub shower grout, descale shower heads, clean doorknobs and handles and dust vents.
- [40:10]
Charles McPherson
So to your point, it's, you know, weekly, monthly, yearly, kind of scenario, whatever. But it's about, you know, what do I need to do every week in my bathroom? So, you know, I know every week I'm going to need to be able to clean the shower and the sink and the counter, and I'm going to need to clean the toilet and the floor. But I don't need to every week pull the medicine cabinet apart or I don't need to take the shower curtain off if it's cloth and wash it, you know, kind of scenario. I don't need to wash the walls down every week because, you know, the humidity actually captures dirt, or the light fixture above the sink doesn't need to be cleaned necessarily every week. You know, you might give it a dust with it with a duster, but you're not pulling it apart and really cleaning it that thoroughly every week. And so that's what you're really kind of keeping track of is every week, what do we need to do every month, what do we need to do? And then what are the special projects that we want to do if, and sometimes there's no special project for that particular room.
- [40:58]
Brett McKay
Gotcha. And one job I saw on these checklists that people probably don't think about a lot is clean the dishwasher.
- [41:06]
Charles McPherson
So what's interesting is that, you know, you think to yourself, what do you mean, I need to clean my dishwasher? But that to me would be something that, you know, I would put on my quarterly list. I would say, okay, it's March, I do it every three months. It's time to clean the dishwasher. And so, you know, the side of the door. So when you open the door and the door is open, there's the edge that runs on the three sides, the top and the two sides that gets really dirty. Because as you're putting dirt, dirty dishes into the dishwasher, food product falls in that area and it doesn't get washed when the dishwasher door is closed. So you actually need to clean that. You need to, you know, if you have filters in the dishwasher, in the bottom of the dishwasher, sometimes they need to be emptied and cleaned out. Sometimes, you know, if you have a very fancy dishwasher, it'll do it by itself, but you need to keep an eye on all that kind of stuff. I'm not a really big believer that you need to run a chemical through your dish washer, although there are those that are available. But you need to actually clean the filter if it's necessary. And you need to actually clean the door, the sides of the door.
- [42:04]
Brett McKay
Okay, so for your weekly cleaning. So this is when you're kind of. It's not a deep clean, but just kind of the maintenance cleaning you're doing to make sure everything looks nice. You recommend to be efficient with this, to have a butler's caddy. What's a butler's caddy? And what do you keep in it?
- [42:17]
Charles McPherson
So a butler's caddy is the caddy that you're going to carry around. So what are you going to have when you're cleaning throughout the house? And so the caddy is going to have your cleaning cloths in it. It's going to have, you know, whatever chemicals that you happen to be using your tools. So, you know, for example, do you need soaps or do you need any sprays to disinfect something? Or do you need a squeegee? Do you need paper towel? Do you need baking soda? Do you need, like a cream cleaner? For certain, you know, ceramic things that you're cleaning. So it's about thinking about where you're going to be cleaning and what are the things that you need. Because the worst thing is, is that, you know, as you're cleaning, you're kind of carrying everything in your hand, and then you realize you've forgotten something and you don't really want to go back to the closet, wherever you keep all your cleaning supplies, or under the sink or wherever it happens to be. And so you don't really do it. You know, you just go home, I'll do it next time, and you just kind of forget about it again. So the Caddy just makes it easy. If everything's in there, then no matter where you are in the house, you have what you need. You know, even, for example, like the different color cloths. So. So I always have said blue for poo and pink for the sink in the kitchen so that we don't have cross contamination. So that, you know, we're using blue cloths in the bathroom and pink cloth in the kitchen, and then a different color cloth everywhere else in the house. All that's just in the Caddy. And so it makes it really easy as you're moving around the house, that you have the right tools.
- [43:34]
Brett McKay
So you mentioned about cleaning a room effectively and efficiently. One thing you mentioned is you clean from top to bottom. Any other tips on cleaning a room effectively and efficiently?
- [43:45]
Charles McPherson
So the most important thing is, as you've said, is to start from the top and to work your way down. But then you always want to work in a circular direction. Now, it doesn't matter if you go clockwise or counterclockwise, but you need to be in a circular direction because at some point you may need to stop. So you know exactly where you were in that process, so where you know where to go. But if you're doing what I call the zigzag method, where you're just kind of moving all over the room, you tend to forget some because it's not logical. But when you're going in a circle, you know exactly where you are and what you're doing. And I find that very helpful.
- [44:17]
Brett McKay
Gotcha. Do you dust first, then vacuum?
- [44:20]
Charles McPherson
So it depends on what kind of vacuum you have, because some vacuums actually put dust out. So you have to think about it. So sometimes you're going to want to vacuum first and then dust. Sometimes you're dusting and vacuuming. In my house, for example, I have a central vacuum. So for me, I would dust a room and then I would vacuum the room as I kind of work my way out of the room. So that's how I do it. But, you know, you need to have a good vacuum to make sure it's not putting dust in the air. What you want is a good filter on your vacuum.
- [44:48]
Brett McKay
Any tips on dusting?
- [44:50]
Charles McPherson
So dusting them. The biggest mistake that people make is that they use too much water. You don't need a chemical, you know, you just need to have a really good cotton cloth. Cotton T shirts, you know, as they wear out in your house, are great to be able to cut up for dusting cloths. And so what you do is you wet your hands under the running sink, you give them one shake, and then you dry them off in that cloth. And then that cloth at that point is the perfect humidity level to be able to dust, because you just want it to be able to grab the dust. But I think that we tend to use too much water, which actually does more Damage than good.
- [45:21]
Brett McKay
Let's talk about bed making. How often should you change the sheets on your bed? I know this is a contentious.
- [45:26]
Charles McPherson
Oh, my God, it's such a contentious issue. And so, you know, there's surveys, for example, in the UK where the average man changes his sheets every three to four months. You know, holy cow. Exactly. And that kind of shocked the nation when those surveys came out last year. But you need to do it at least once a week. And the reason you need to do it at least once a week, even if you are the only person sleeping in that bed, is the average person sweats, give or take a liter of fluid throughout the night. And so you've got this liquid that's going into the bed, first of all, and you just have, you know, skin that is falling off. We all have natural skin, dead skin that's falling off. It's not because you're not healthy or sick. It's just as normal. So we have that dead skin that's falling in the bed. We have the humidity that's in the bed, and we all drool at night. We don't like to think that we do, but we do. So all this kind of stuff is important. And so minimum, once a week is when you should be doing your best.
- [46:22]
Brett McKay
Any advice on making a bed?
- [46:25]
Charles McPherson
Well, you know, I wouldn't make my bed as a kid. My mother and I thought about that bitterly until finally my mother said to me one year, she said, oh, I'm going to give you a present. I said, you are? She said, yes, I'm going to buy you a new duvet for your bed. So let's go shopping. So I was all excited and I went and I picked out some new sheets with my mother. And my mother changed the bed recipe for me. And so what she did is she put a fitted sheet on the bed and she gave me a duvet that had a duvet cover on it. And that was it. And I was told every morning if I wanted to come down for breakfast, I had to just give the duvet a flick so that my bed was made. And it was so simple, I actually did it. So I think it's about being smart about the bed recipe versus maybe parents want to have a more complicated bed. So maybe you have a fitted sheet and a flat sheet and a blanket and a duvet. All that's really great. It's just a lot more work work. And there's not one right or wrong way to do it. They're just different. So I think it's about Thinking about the application of who sleeps in the bed, who has to make the bed, and who has the time, and ultimately, what do you want?
- [47:25]
Brett McKay
Do you recommend letting the bed air out a little bit before you make it?
- [47:28]
Charles McPherson
Oh, absolutely. For that exact reason that because of the humidity that's in the bed, the bed needs to be able to air out. And bed bugs. And bugs, they love that moisture and they love that humidity and they love that warmth. So if you make the bed right away, that humidity stays trapped in the bed, which is something you don't want.
- [47:45]
Brett McKay
Okay, I'm gonna ask. This is a. A greedy question.
- [47:47]
Charles McPherson
This is from me.
- [47:48]
Brett McKay
I clean the showers in our home. So I'm always looking for advice on how to do this job better. Any advice on the best way to clean a shower?
- [47:57]
Charles McPherson
So I think the best way is, first of all, is to have a squeegee in the shower. And not the one that you buy for showers, because they're not good. Generally what I have in my shower is I actually have a squeegee that you buy at the hardware store for windows. So it's got a proper black rubber tip on the end so that it squeegees perfectly. So first of all, I think you need a professional squeegee. But second of all, if you have the ability to somewhere, either, you know, under the kitchen, the bathroom sink, or somewhere to be able to keep some soap and a brush so that you can actually brush down the shower on a regular basis and then rinse it and then squeegee it, it becomes really easy, because the more often you do it, the easier it is to do, and the faster it becomes. The mistake that people do is that they wait too long, then the buildup starts, and then it becomes really difficult to clean, and then you resent it, and then you don't want to clean it. So having the ability to rinse down the shower, having the squeegee right there, that's a good one for windows, allows you to squeegee whether you're doing tiles or you're doing a glass shower door or glass shower wall, which is what I do. It makes it really easy so that, a, the bathroom always looks good, but B, I never get enough buildup that I never really resent that once a week when I use the soap or twice a week when I use the soap, because it's really not hard. It's just a quick rub down.
- [49:18]
Brett McKay
Okay, so you recommend squeegeeing after every use?
- [49:21]
Charles McPherson
Absolutely. Because the problem is the watermarks. Go onto the glass, and they don't necessarily come off when it gets wet again. And so that just makes it harder to clean. And the problem is, of course, nobody ever wants to squeegee after you shower. Everyone likes the ability to be able to just have a shower and thank you, goodbye. And so that's what you need to think about. You know, are you prepared to squeegee your shower? Or if not, maybe a shower curtain's the way to go.
- [49:43]
Brett McKay
Best product for cleaning your shower.
- [49:46]
Charles McPherson
Well, I think the issue is that, you know, you need a soap. And so I'm a really firm believer in dish soap because it's got a low PH balance, so it doesn't really affect anything. It works fine on metal surfaces. It works really well on tiles and tubs and all that kind of stuff. So a dish soap actually is a great cleaner. But if you need a bit of a chemical, Pine Sol is very good at getting rid of water stains, is a great way to go. I'm not really a believer that you need to bleach the shower because there's no bacteria, per se, in the shower, unless you've got buildup that's been there for years and years, and then you've got mold and bacteria. But if you're doing it regularly, there really generally isn't a need to be able to use a harsh chemical. And so the most important thing is making sure that the bathroom airs out, that the door is open, and if you have a window that the windows open every once in a while to let the air out and the humidity escape.
- [50:38]
Brett McKay
One tip that I picked up recently, that's been a game changer for cleaning the glass, at least in the shower. Vinegar seems to be really awesome at, like, a vinegar mixture.
- [50:48]
Charles McPherson
Vinegar and water is a great mixture for certain things. Absolutely. And, you know, there's pros and cons to what they call green cleaning products, which, you know, is the. In this particular case would be the water and the vinegar. So I think that again, then it would be having, you know, a squeegee bottle with the vinegar and the water already mixed in it that's somewhere handy so you can grab quickly, give it a little bit of a quick spray, and then you can rinse it and, you know, use your squeegee. So again, it's about the easier you make it for yourself, then the more likely you are to do it, and the more often you do it, the easier the job becomes.
- [51:23]
Brett McKay
So, final question in the Butler Speaks, you wrote that being a butler is about Giving people the little luxuries in life. So after you've taken care of the big stuff of keeping a house right, you're doing the maintenance, the cleaning, managing inventory. What are some of the little luxuries people can give themselves to make their home a joy to live in?
- [51:41]
Charles McPherson
I think it's about thinking of anticipating. So, for example, if you like to have a cup of tea in the afternoon, then you know that cup of tea can be a real pleasure. If you have a nice teacup and you have a nice little teapot, you have some of your favorite tea, so that becomes a pleasure. So whether you're making it for someone else or you're making it for yourself, that becomes something really enjoyable. Or for example, you know, my mother, you know, she likes to have a glass of wine, you know, in the evening. She uses a nice glass. She uses one of her crystal glasses from the dining room. Not because she's trying to be particularly fancy, but she just really enjoys that glass. And she says, well, I have to wash the glass by hand, no matter what glass it is. So whether it's just an everyday glass or a crystal glass, it's the same thing. And so she gets more pleasure out of using the crystal glass. Or a simple pleasure can just be, for example, just having your bed made so that when you come home and you crawl into bed, there's nothing, I think, nicer than crawling into a freshly made bed. So to me, those are the little things that are enjoyable to try to think about.
- [52:39]
Brett McKay
So this has been a great conversation. Charles, where can people go to learn more about the books and your work?
- [52:44]
Charles McPherson
So the books, you can go to Amazon, which is anywhere in the world, and the books are available there. And you can go onto our website@charlesmcpherson.com and that's where you can find out about a lot of things there, too.
- [52:55]
Brett McKay
Fantastic. Well, Charles McPherson, thanks for your time. It's been a pleasure.
- [52:58]
Charles McPherson
The pleasure has been all mine. Thank you.
- [53:01]
Brett McKay
My guest Here is Charles McPherson. He's the author of several books, including the book the Butler Speaks. It's available on Amazon.com you can find more information about his work at his website, charlesmcphearson.com also check out our shownotes at AOM is Butler, where you find links to resources when we delve deeper into this topic. Well, that wraps up another edition of the AOM podcast. Make sure to check out our website at artofmanlist.com where you find our podcast archives as well as thousands of articles that we've written. Over the years about pretty much anything you think of. And if you haven't done so already, I'd appreciate it if you take one minute to get us reading Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It helps out a lot, and if you've done that already, thank you. Please consider sharing the show with a friend or family member who you think we did something out of it. As always, thank you for the continued support. Until next time's Brett McKay remind you tonight, listen to podcast, but put what you've heard into. Before you go. Here's another one to queue up. Next I talked to Ben Aldridge about his book Seriously Happy, where he takes the big ideas from ancient philosophies like Buddhism, cynicism, stoicism, and turns them into real, doable challenges for becoming a better, happier person. We get into everything from cultivating virtue to walking a banana and taking a Wu way adventure. It's fun, practical, and surprisingly deep. You can check it out at AOM is Seriously Happy Again, that's AOM is Seriously Happy.