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- [00:00]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [00:08]
Stephen
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [00:12]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [00:21]
Stephen
That's right.
- [00:21]
Unknown Caller
Hey.
- [00:21]
Thomas Hill Lopez Mencheira
Hey.
- [00:22]
Stephen
So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [00:26]
Hayden
And along the way we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler Al he'll be wrong.
- [00:33]
Stephen
News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy Fan Fellows wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:40]
Paige from Giggly Squad
Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. And if you've been thinking about tackling any home or yard projects lately, this is your sign. Lowe's Spring Fest is on Lowe's Spring Fest is happening right now at Lowe's, featuring great deals to help you refresh your homes and outdoor spaces. Just in time for spring. We talked about airing out your home, and Lowe's is just taking it to the next level. You can save up to 40 on major indoor appliances and help supercharge your chores. Springfest is happening now, and our best lineup is here at Lowe's, valid through April 22, 2026, while supplies last selection varies by location. See Lowes.com for details. Mulch offer excludes Alaska and Hawaii.
- [01:25]
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- [01:59]
Ayo Akamolere
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimwaleri. The fallout from that AFCON final way back in January continues to rumble on On Saturday, Senegal paraded the trophy in Paris despite having their title stripped and handed to Morocco. So what happens next? And how much has this saga damaged the reputation of Afcon? In with us for this one, we've got Thomas Hill Lopez Mencheira in the studio, and we've also got Simon Hughes as well. All right, Thomas, talk to me about Paris. On Saturday, Senegal paraded the AFCON trophy at the Stade de France ahead of their friendly against Peru. What was the atmosphere like? Because this felt like a really defiant moment.
- [02:49]
Thomas Hill Lopez Mencheira
Yeah, it was kind of surreal, as you say, because it really felt as if that decision by the caf Appeals committee had never happened. I mean, chatting to Senegalese fans around the Stade de France, around Paris, which obviously has a really strong Senegalese community, France in general has a really strong Senegalese community. Nobody really seemed to seem to accept it. Everyone, everyone called themselves champions of Africa. The coach, Paptiel, the players did similar in the press conference that week. Paptiel said, everybody knows where we're champions of Africa, but clearly it is in. In dispute as things stand. So, yeah, it was, it was an amazing atmosphere. They showed a montage of the AFCON final before kickoff. You can imagine there were whistles when the, when the penalty was given, cheers when Brahim Diaz missed all the, all the usual stuff, big cheers when, when Pap Guy scored what seemed to be the, the winning goal at the time, and, and everyone was there for, for the trophy being brought out. So when, when that was carried out by, by Kalidou Koulibaly, massive chairs, they parade it to each corner of the stadium, bring it up to Senegal dignitaries. Edward Mendy does this to two fingers gesture to show two AFCON titles for, for the one in 2021 and, and this one this year, which is in dispute, and then it kind of stays there in front of the Senegal dignitaries. I was kind of trying to get a look at the trophy as much as I could, and at halftime, it was even seemingly being guarded by someone which, which was, you know, I mean, I suppose, safety. Safety first. Right.
- [04:22]
Ayo Akamolere
Well, just in case the Moroccos came and took it.
- [04:24]
Thomas Hill Lopez Mencheira
I mean, you know, you never know.
- [04:26]
Ayo Akamolere
You know, it was so interesting watching the build up to this. And I don't know from your perspective, but from my perspective, there's a part of me that thought, they're not going to do this, are they? And they actually did. Were you surprised that they actually went ahead in such huge parade to get it done?
- [04:40]
Thomas Hill Lopez Mencheira
Yeah, I suppose I was. I guess there were, there were reports in the build up that, you know, maybe some kind of action could be. Could be taken that. That hasn't materialized into. Into anything concrete. But yeah, certainly when the moment the trophy came out was one of those slightly unbelievable moments where you think, wow, they've really just gone and done that. And as you say, a really kind of defiant moment. I would also point out that at the end of the game, I saw the man who seemed to have been guarding that trophy stuffing it into the front of his backpack to bring it down onto the pitch to get to the players. So it was just a couple of bizarre things which you kind of pick up on. And, yeah, it was really interesting to be there on Saturday.
- [05:19]
Ayo Akamolere
Okay. Well, Simon, this trophy, since Senegal I've had hold of it, has made its way to the president's office. The Senegalese army have had hold of it. I've even seen a lion paraded around it as well. I mean, look, take us back to January. I was there. You were there to that final. Some might say it was a rather contentious and controversial final, but just break it down to us. For anyone that doesn't remember exactly how Senegal managed to lift this AFCON trophy.
- [05:49]
Simon Hughes
Right. I think you've actually got to take it back even further, because what happened on that night happened for a reason. And it's the first time, I actually think that conspiracy has manifested itself into the reactions of people inside a football stadium. Unfounded conspiracy, I must say. So if you wind it back to last summer at the women's afcon, Morocco played a final against Nigeria, which Nigeria won in Morocco. After that game, Morocco put in a complaint about the standard of refereeing in that final. The head of the Moroccan fa, Fuji Leksha, went onto the pitch after the game, and you could see there was some discussion going on with the referees after that. The referees. The head of referees in Africa was fired, not to be replaced. And then ahead of the men's AFCON in Morocco again, at the start, sorry, at the end of 2025, there was lots of conversation about the role of referees even before the tournament started. I remember sitting in a press conferen with the caf president, Patrice Matsepe, who addressed this issue. He brought it to the forefront, almost questioning sort of the credibility of the people in charge of these games. And all the way through the tournament, there was a lot of focus on the decisions. The referees are hyper focus. I've never seen anything like it, particularly around the Morocco games. So Morocco reached the final against Senegal. It's approaching injury time, potentially going into extra time. Senegal score what they felt to be a legitimate goal in front of their own fans, which would have, in theory, won them the AFCON in Rabat against Morocco. But the referee overruled that decision. I think it was the right decision, actually. But what he didn't do was go to Var. You know, given the magnitudes of the moments, you would anticipate most Referees would use Var just to be certain, but he didn't. Moments later, Morocco go up the other end of the pitch and get a penalty. After a long Var wait, which nobody was really appealing for, but again, I actually felt it was probably the right decision, but it was the fact that the Var came into play for Morocco and it didn't for Senegal. In a moment where people couldn't actually see, you know, they couldn't see the footage as well. So this all fed this idea that it was favorably leading towards Morocco. Morocco missed that penalty, of course, but only after there was a mass walkout by the players, led by the head coach. And I mean, obviously that weight must have made it a bit harder to take that penalty in that moment by Brahim Diaz. So in the mean, in the middle of all this, you know, there was fighting broke out on the terrace terraces amongst the Senegalese fans and the security services. This was happening just as the penalty was going to be taken. And once things had sort of settled down a bit, Senegal went on one. So it was a remarkable. A remarkable end to the tournament. I mean, I've never seen anything like it. Still trying to process it, really. And I was watching it back the other day, the final, you forget little moments, you know, of actually how that all unravels. You know, it was just chaos, chaos. So, yeah, that's what's led to this moment. You know, we. We now have a situation where Morocco has obviously put in a complaint and it's led to cash and its appeal boards overturning the result.
- [09:08]
Ayo Akamolere
Yeah, I mean, you haven't even mentioned what happened with the towels and the goalkeeper and all that drama. I mean, that there's so much to go into. But I guess what makes this even more dramatic, Thomas and I say drama loosely because there's actually a documentary being made of this final by Netflix. I don't know if you guys know, which would be incredible watching 57 days after the final, Kaaf reversed the resulters, Simon said, and declared Morocco the real winners. I mean, this is an extraordinary decision. Did you see that part coming?
- [09:42]
Thomas Hill Lopez Mencheira
No, I don't think anyone saw it coming higher. I mean, it was during. During a Champions League night. I think that was when Madrid were playing City and Chelsea were playing psg. I. I was working. So you're kind of, you know, keeping across various things and suddenly that pops up. And I think reading the statement initially, you kind of have to have to read it a few times before you really realize what. What has happened there. Even one of the Senegal midfielders I mean, camera the other day told reporters that he was, he was just watching Chelsea's game against psg and he only found out through the commentators saying that Senegal had been stripped of their title. So if even the players are finding out in that way, then, yeah, imagine how us as journalists feel. It was, yeah, totally, totally unexpected. And, and I think speaking to, to those Senegal fans in Paris, that was the main, that was the main issue, really how long it took. I'm sure they'd still have had problems with it if it had happened in the immediate aftermath of the game, but 57 days later, that's a long time to then make a decision of, of who the winner of that final is.
- [10:43]
Ayo Akamolere
Yeah, Simon, you know, it's so interesting because I was looking at the, the appeal by Morocco and it's a really powerful appeal based on AFCON rules. I mean, there is a ruling in place whereby if players do walk off the field, that actually you forfeit that match in many respects. But, you know, it's so fascinating. What's been a sort of counteract to that is that the ifab, the International Football association board, these are the guys who are the independent self regulatory body, are responsible for determining and maintaining the laws of the game, have also said in many respects that you know what, the referee's decision once it's made counts. So you can't retrospectively, once a referee's decision has been made, then make some sort of appeal because what happens on the pitch at that time, which is 5.2 of the decision of the referee in their sort of framework, basically counts, and then you sort of move on. Is that where you feel. Senegal feel a little aggrieved by this right now? Because what happened on the pitch happens on the pitch. What happens after football shouldn't really be done in a courtroom in many respects.
- [11:45]
Simon Hughes
Well, yeah, I mean, it opens up a conversation that I don't think anybody really wants to have about how we decide football matches. I mean, it feels like the ultimate VAR decision, doesn't it? It's like we're waiting. We're waiting and you know, that big tournament that you've just won, you actually haven't. You know, it's, it's really an unpleasant way to decide anything, I think. And it should, in theory fall down on the referee's decision. That law does overrule the CAF statutes and the CAF handbook. So two points that are keen, that I'm keen to sort of stress is that Morocco, throughout this process have been very keen to say is that they're not attempting to take away from the sporting performance of both of the teams, but, you know, rules are rules and they need to be applied properly. But Morocco, of course, are the prime beneficiaries of these technicalities, and the perception is that they sort of strong arm their way to this decision. Now, Senegal's response to that is exactly as you say. It could simply come down to that. But there are also various other things that I think Senegal can. Can challenge. I mean, are they challenging the procedure behind the decision or the substance? That is the result itself. The result itself is exactly what you mentioned. But, you know, there are various other things at play here. So we saw last week that Varon Masonga Wamba, the caf General Secretary, he resigned last week at the age of 66 in the caf statutes. There's been a lot of conversation about this online amongst various followers of African football and journalists. It says that the general secretary cannot be older than 63, except if the caf President extends that period once for three years. This all happens after that period, you know, so when he turned 63, Masongo Amber, who is. Is around this decision, should have left the conversation is, you know, should every decision that subsequently fell under him now be considered null and void. So it's going to be interesting to see really how. How Senegal approach the appeal, because it could be really simple. It could just. Just be that. It could just be exactly what you say. But there are various things that they can poke holes in potentially in the actual procedure as well, in terms of how they arrived at this point. It's going to be fascinating to see how long this takes as well, because I know, I know Cass have said, you know, that they realize that there's a. There's a. There's a public interest in this matter and it needs to be resolved pretty quickly. But usually something like this can take as much as six to nine months. So we might not even have an answer until late this year after the World cup, which I think people a satisfactory resolution would be before the World cup. So because it sort of distorts the sporting integrity of the next tournament follows as well, I think. In some ways.
- [14:35]
Ayo Akamolere
Let's think about the players because there's clearly a lot of emotion surrounding this situation, and I felt you could hear that in what Eduard Mendy said in the mix zone.
- [14:45]
Unknown Caller
My question is, why should I not feel as African champion? Why? I don't know. Yeah, but I ask you.
- [14:54]
Simon Hughes
Because. Because maybe Morocco will.
- [14:57]
Unknown Caller
Yeah, but. But even you. You say you don't. No, because you don't have any reason to give me that, to feel like not a champion. What you feel is like, what everybody feels. Everybody feels that Senegal are the champions. So there is no question about it. There was like a game on the field. We won it. There is another game, but on another field, which we cannot control, unfortunately. The football on the pitch made by the African footballers is going faster than these people in the offices.
- [15:30]
Ayo Akamolere
Yeah. And alternatively, this is the view of former Nigeria captain William Truce Ekong in regards to the trophy being given to Morocco. He says, I would feel ashamed to win like this. It wouldn't feel right. You have to earn it on the pitch. I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer to this, and I guess it depends on which camp you're sitting in. But for the players in particular, it's quite a tough position to be in.
- [15:55]
Thomas Hill Lopez Mencheira
Yeah, I think it's a tough position for. For both sets of players to be in, because I can fully see why Senegal players would call themselves champions of Africa, having played out the rest of extra time, having. Having won the final on the pitch, as. As they see it. But I can also see why Morocco players would feel very aggrieved that most of the Senegal players, I think, apart from Sadio Mane, left the pitch, you know, before that penalty by Brahim Diaz was taken, as Simon says there. That must have impacted his concentration before he. He takes that. That Panenka penalty. So, yeah, I can see both sides.
- [16:29]
Simon Hughes
It's.
- [16:29]
Thomas Hill Lopez Mencheira
It's really tough and I'm not sure there is really a satisfactory outcome here. Senegal will always feel aggrieved if. If that title is confirmed to be stripped of. Of them and given to Morocco. And likewise, Morocco fans, really, do they really feel fully like AFCON champions having won in this way? I'm not sure.
- [16:50]
Ayo Akamolere
Yeah, that's a good point, actually. And let's talk about the Moroccan perspective. Simon. It's worth pointing out that before this match, Morocco hadn't won this tournament since 1976. We're looking at just over 50 years, really. What's their reaction been to the latest developments? Because I keep going back to it. There was a moment that Morocco could actually have won this tournament by scoring the penalty.
- [17:15]
Simon Hughes
Yes, there was. And in the game itself, you know, Morocco did miss all the chances. I mean, it's a shame because it was actually a great final as well. I thought even though it was nil. Nil up to that point, both teams were attacking each other. You know, there was lots of chances. I actually thought Senegal were the better team. But Morocco created the better chances. They missed some, some really guilt heads opportunities, you know, and then as you say that they had the opportunity to score, the penalty. I mean the decision to take a panenka in that circumstance I still find incredible. When the decision was revealed by Kaaf, you know, I saw footage and photographs of people in Morocco celebrating. You know, they were out on the streets of Rabat and Casablanca in the cars. But it probably wasn't done with quite the energy that you would have seen if it was done in real terms. And all the way through the tournament, you know, that the pressure on Morocco was incredible. You know, there was this sense of they had to win. And it was almost as the tournament
- [18:11]
Ayo Akamolere
progressed, it felt, where does that come from? Is that because of the infrastructure that was built around it, all those stadiums, the amount of money that pumped into it? Morocco will be co hosting the World cup in 2030. Is that why you're thinking that?
- [18:22]
Simon Hughes
Yeah, definitely. I mean, let's not forget Morocco got to the semi finals, the World cup in 2022. And that was a surprise to the rest of the world. And you know, it should still be considered a surprise, but quietly. Morocco have been putting a lot of money into football and getting things right. Huge investments, infrastructurally the way ahead of most African nations. The facilities that they have are in keeping with European standards. They've engaged the diaspora. Coaching standards at domestic level have improved. If they, for example, went into European competition, I'd fancy Morocco to do pretty well. For example. I'm not saying that Europe is vastly superior to AFCON in any way, but all of the standards are really high in Morocco. And because of all this, that the Moroccan public thought, you know, that, that this was going to happen, you know, that they're going to win, make new history and it sort of made it a bit joyless in some ways, I have to say, you know, because there was this impression that Morocco will get all the way to the final, albeit, you know, Senegal, their opponents, a very interesting country in football terms because they are regarded within Africa, I'd say as level with Morocco in terms of the structures that exist there, in terms of the governance as well, in terms of how things add up through the levels. But it's done in a different way. There's a lot of state investments in Morocco, there's a lot of private investment in Senegal which has worked closely with the authorities there. So it's a really interesting final for all those reasons and the two countries as well. It was put to Me during the course of the tournament, they're actually quite close relations and siege other. There's a sort of a brotherhood between the two of them because of the trade routes that used to go from West Africa up into, into Morocco. And I could see this, you know, as the tournament was going on, you'd be going on trains and Senegalese people in Moroccans would be having conversations about football. It was a. There was a really nice sort of harmony between both nations. You know, let's not forget in the final, it wasn't, you know, there wasn't fighting involved involving Senegalese and Moroccans. But this relationship's being tested now, right? It has to be. So, yeah, I mean, it was a huge moment in Moroccan football history to lose the final at home in these circumstances, particularly when you're expected to win, when everything's in your favor, really to lose it was, was. Was bad, you know, that that chance, you know, might not come around again very soon because before the tournament it was announced the AFCON is going to be held every. Every four years rather than every two. So that changes the possibilities for Morocco as well. And I sense that the state and people in Morocco want proof of this sense of status that they have now. As we've said here, I mean, winning it in this way, it certainly doesn't give them that. But by making the appeal, it shows that Morocco won't be messed around with.
- [21:14]
Ayo Akamolere
Yeah. We should also say, as well as the Cass appeal, the Senegalese Football Federation has also filed a corruption complaint against five individuals, although not against the Moroccan federation. CAF and Morocco have always denied any allegations of corruption.
- [21:30]
Podcast Narrator
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- [22:56]
Paige from Giggly Squad
Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. And if you've been thinking about tackling any home or yard projects lately, this is your sign. Lowe's Spring Fest is on Lowe's Spring Fest is happening right now at Lowe's, featuring great deals to help you refresh your homes and outdoor spaces. Just in time for spring, we talked about airing out your home and Lowe's is just taking it to the next level. You can save up to 40% on major indoor appliances and help supercharge your chores. Springfest is happening now, and our best lineup is here at Lowe's, valid through April 22, 2026, while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See lowe's.com for details. Mulch offer excludes Alaska and Hawaii.
- [23:40]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [23:48]
Stephen
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [23:52]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [24:01]
Stephen
That's right. Hei hei. So each week you'll get my unfiltered RA reactions to every single chapter.
- [24:06]
Hayden
And along the way we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [24:13]
Stephen
News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy Fan Fellows wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:26]
Ayo Akamolere
Let's move on, Thomas, because we've spoken about the chaos of what happened with the men's AFCON final, while the women's edition was actually postponed fewer than two weeks before it was actually due to begin. Jay Harris has spoken about this on the Totally Football Show. He's also spoken about it on this podcast. What's happened here?
- [24:43]
Thomas Hill Lopez Mencheira
Yeah, so it was due to take place, as you say, IO in Morocco from March 17, less than two weeks before it gets postponed at short Notice, Kath said it was to ensure the success of this important women's competition in the light of certain unforeseen circumstances. But. But they've never elaborated really on what those circumstances were. So we know it's now going to take place in the summer. Unclear if that's going to be in Morocco. Clearly, in terms of talking about those unforeseen circumstances, that leaves kind of space for fans to speculate. As you said there, Catherine, Morocco have always denied any allegations of kind of undue influence, but this was just after Morocco had faced sanctions for that AFCON final, before the decision to overturn the final had taken place. So it all adds up to a slightly worrying image for African football, I think, and probably comes back to some of what Eduard Mendy said there about the governing body seeming to be a bit behind its teams who can clearly compete on the pitch.
- [25:43]
Ayo Akamolere
Thomas makes a really good point there, Simon. In terms of the credibility of African football, but also the credibility of afcon. And I'm sitting here as a fan of football in general and watching an amazing tournament and having watched a tournament develop over the years. The standard of football is great, the pitches and the stadiums are looking fantastic. And yet again, regardless of all these movements, we have tournaments being postponed, we have corruption claims, we have situations where one team has won the trophy, yet it's been given to another team. Again, how damaging can these events be, not just for the tournament, but for the credibility of CAF and AFCON moving forward?
- [26:23]
Simon Hughes
Well, I think, again, you've got to rewind a little bit in terms of how we got to this point. So the perception around Morocco and Moroccan power stems from Morocco's ability to host. You know, it stepped in on several occasions for CAF when they haven't been able to place tournaments in other countries. It also acts as a host of training camps for countries that don't have the facilities or the stadiums to host CAF matches or FIFA matches. So CAF's power has grown over a long period of time. That's not great. Certainly. I'd say that that is not great for the image of African football and that, you know, that we have a situation where, you know, FIFA are expecting, you know, certain facilities to be built in certain countries, and we are, you know, the governing body is essentially allowing one country to monopolize the reaction to that. This is all fed into this idea that Morocco has a bit more sway than other countries. Whether fair or not, that perception is there. You know, I'm a bit conflicted about everything, really, because on the night of the final, I was thinking, oh, my God, like, this is obviously bad. You know, you can't have a team walking off at this moment because, you know, if you don't punish that team in the future, you know, anybody can try their hands at it. And in that moment, I've got to say I was worried about the security situation because things were getting really, really bad. And I can understand why people, maybe on tv, found all this quite entertaining as well, because they couldn't see exactly what I could see throughout the whole process. The more I thought about it, you know, I sort of. I could understand the Senegalese reaction. Whether it had foundation or not, they firmly believed at that time that something was wrong. And I think there's actually something incredibly powerful for saying, you know what, at this moment, we're not happy with what's going on. We're going. You know, I think too many people and too many government bodies sometimes just put up with this, whether they. Whether they have. Whether it has foundation or not. I can understand the reaction in that moment now. Now, I actually think, for the image of Afcon, I think people, certainly viewers and listeners and people who are following the tournaments, I think this will be good for Afcon in some ways, because people want to see this unscripted drama unfold in front of us. I remember the day before the decision was reached, I received an email off CAF saying that viewing figures were higher than ever. You know, they're really pleased about this. Caf increasingly is judging itself on its performance around viewing figures and investment and stuff like that. But the problem is, obviously people like. Or television companies seeing this, they might invest in this sort of. This product, if you like this sort of unvarnished product. But then there's also the issue which we just discussed there, the women's afcom. You know, that tournament has definitely taken a hit in terms of the confidence around it, because which broadcaster is going to invest in women's football when there's every chance the tournament gets cancelled two weeks before it's due to be played? It doesn't elicit confidence in the thing that CAF is sort of judging itself on at the moment. So, again, there's lots of contradictions here. I think it is undeniable that it's. The decision that's being reached, you know, is not good for the image of caf and the governance of African football. You know, there's all sorts of theories swirling around at the moment, and you sort of reluctant to place too much value on all them because, you know, they're improvable. But some people are saying to me, you know, the caf have had to invoke this punishment, almost knowing that Cavs would overturn it to ensure that a walk off doesn't happen again. It reminds the referees of their responsibilities. The referee really should have blown his whistle in that moment. He didn't, which means that it would probably, probably will get overturned. And then you sort of placate Morocco to some degree. But nevertheless, it leaves the image of KAF in a bit of a mess, really. So, yeah, there's all sorts of levels to it, really. I mean, I certainly think that, you know, viewing figures, people will be tuning into the next AFCON final, to be
- [30:27]
Ayo Akamolere
honest with you, from the British broadcasting perspective, it hit record figures for Channel 4, so. And I was privy to that. So it's really interesting because, you know, even by landing back in the uk, my luggage was still left in Morocco. I'm talking to the ladies in charge of my luggage and they're saying, where have you come from? I went, Morocco. They went, did you watch that final? And I was just like, how did you watch the final? And then heard about it on social media, that I started tuning in at the key moments, which is really interesting because it's the first time it's reverberated beyond the world of football, if that makes sense.
- [30:59]
Simon Hughes
Well, again, it poses a question. Is all content good? That is the question. What happened here? Is it good for African football? Probably not, but people might want to be a part of this. But then I must stress again, the big problem for Africa as a continent and football is the gap in terms of money. And caf clearly thinks that to increase standards, it needs more money, being committed towards it. And they have generated record revenues, ones that Patrice Motsepe, the CAF president, he's professionalized a lot of elements of the operation around how they generate wealth and then put that back into the sport. But the problem is, if you have situations where tournaments are getting cancelled, you get finals that are going to the courtrooms, I think long term, our sponsors really want to get involved and be associated with this sort of uncertainty. Really, probably not. So I think while in the short term, people, it starts the conversation about AFCON and its place, and it should actually lead to a lot of serious conversation about what is happening in Africa generally. And then. And then the football's role within the continent, it should lead to sort of sensible conversation about this, which could be a good thing. But there's no doubt that, you know, that the image of certainly caf has taken a hit because you know, you can't have a final that has been decided. As we've all said, you know, the penalty was taken, the referee did blow the final whistle. You can't, you know, five, six weeks later say, well, actually, that, that never happens. I mean, I keep on looking at my, my press pass for the final where I'm, I'm thinking, is this real?
- [32:40]
Ayo Akamolere
Did it happen?
- [32:41]
Simon Hughes
Does it really happen?
- [32:51]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fan Girls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [32:59]
Stephen
And I'm your bookish Internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [33:03]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [33:12]
Stephen
That's right.
- [33:12]
Unknown Caller
Hey.
- [33:12]
Stephen
Hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [33:17]
Hayden
And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [33:24]
Stephen
Newsflash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy fanfellas wherever you get your podcasts.
- [33:33]
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- [34:01]
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- [34:37]
Podcast Narrator
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akamolere.
- [34:42]
Ayo Akamolere
Let's look ahead to the World Cup, Thomas, because you know, the last World Cup Morocco were the first African team to reach the latter parts of of the World Cup. I think that came forth in that tournament, which is a huge achievement and part of what we've been talking about today. And the rise of football infrastructure. Let's look at Senegal. They are in quite a tricky group. They've drawn France, Norway and Bolivia or Iraq in their group. Kylian Mbappe has spoken publicly regarding the threat Senegal pose in this group. Are they one to watch for the World Cup?
- [35:13]
Thomas Hill Lopez Mencheira
Yeah, I think they are. I mean, you know, trophy or not, from, from that AFCON final, you can't deny this is a really exciting Senegal team. I was really impressed by them on Saturday. Clearly it's a friendly against a very, very low ranked Peru side who haven't qualified for the World Cup. But even without some of their key stars in Mendy Koulibaly Mane, they put on a really impressive performance. Linking up really well. Ibrahim Mbay, the 18 year old from France, born in France actually, who, who plays for Senegal, was the big star, also plays for psg, so was pretty obvious why he would get such a great reception in Paris. But yeah, I was impressed with them and I think chatting to those players afterwards, you really do get the impression they think they can go very far. Clearly they're in a tough group, as you say, but Bolivia or Rack, obviously you'd expect them to beat them comfortably. Norway, apart from Erling Haaland, I think, I think, you know, you'd argue that Senegal have, have a better team there, really. And France, yeah, we'll see. They're clearly stacked with attacking talent. But everyone remembers that opening match of the 2002 World Cup.
- [36:19]
Ayo Akamolere
I was going to mention that when
- [36:20]
Thomas Hill Lopez Mencheira
they lost to Senegal and I think Senegal will, will feel confident of possibly doing something similar, getting a result. And as you say, Mbappe is not underestimating them, so I don't think we should underestimate them either.
- [36:31]
Ayo Akamolere
Off the pitch, Simon, Senegal is one of the countries that are going to be impacted by some really fascinating in this World cup. It's a US policy which essentially requ a deposit of up to $15,000 in bond payments for a tourist visa. Now, it could also impact players, but I wonder if there's an irony to this because FIFA president Gianni Infantino has basically branded the 2026 World cup as the most inclusive in the history of the tournament, yet certain players and certain fans might not be able to actually be present for it.
- [37:06]
Lowe's Advertiser
It.
- [37:07]
Simon Hughes
Well, I, I'd counter that by saying at the moment it feels like the most enclosed tournament that's ever been. It's the actual opposite. And you know, Infantino has a track record of saying things that are opposites. It really troubles me, to be honest, because when, when I think about the 1994 World cup, which I can vividly remember. It was full of colour nations from all over the world. Obviously, in the us it was a really exciting tournament. And this one, it feels like to play a role in it, you have to have a significant amount of money to be involved. And I just think it sends out a terrible message, really. And not enough's been done to challenge this as well. I mean, Infantino obviously has this bromance with the US President. It doesn't feel like the real issues that really matter in terms of getting people earned are being focused on at all. In fact, it's being let slip. And, you know, I know quite a lot of fans from different African nations who would like to go, but they just can't afford to go. And, you know, it's not just the African nations, you know, like sort of a stand, just. Just getting there alone. You know, if you don't have to pay these bonds, the prices are just astronomical, you know, in terms of accommodation, getting around the country tickets, you know, before you've even started with that. So it's closing the door to this decision around entry has closed the door to a huge number of people. But, yeah, I mean, whether anything will be done about it before the World Cup, I can't see it at the moment, but it makes me feel sad because it could be an amazing tournament if it was done on fair ground, but it doesn't feel like it is that way.
- [38:51]
Ayo Akamolere
All right, I'm sure there'll be more from us, definitely on the World cup and most definitely on this decision by Caf for Senegal and Morocco. All right, gents, let's leave it there. Thomas, appreciate your time. And also, Simon, thank you so much for joining us. And thank you guys for joining us as well. We'll catch you soon.
- [39:09]
Podcast Narrator
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroo and Jay Beal, with editing by Paul Iliff and Nick Thompson. The executive producer is Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic wherever you get your podcasts. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [39:46]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [39:53]
Stephen
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [39:58]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [40:06]
Stephen
That's right. Hey hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single joke.
- [40:11]
Hayden
And along the way we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [40:18]
Stephen
News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find fantasy fan fellows wherever you get your podcasts.
- [40:27]
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- [40:55]
Farnoosh Tarabi
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