James McNicholas (2:00)

What can I say? We're our own worst enemy. I'm writing from the Athletic for this game and so far, all I've got down on the page is the greatest threat to Arsenal's title challenge is Arsenal. And I mean, that has no disrespect to Manchester City or Aston Villa. Arsenal conspiring for a defeat here from a situation where they were totally in control. And it's worrying. It is very worrying because it's now three games without a win in the Premier League. There is a nervousness in the team, there is a nervousness in the ground. And I almost feel bad talking about it because it, you know, you almost don't wish to speak. It into existence.

Ayo Akimolere (2:38)

But it is.

Adam Kraft (2:39)

It is very real.

James McNicholas (2:40)

And I think anybody who says it's not has got their head in the sand. Frankly, at this point in time, I'm concerned. I'm concerned because it's only January, right? And if there's this level of tension and nerves and this level of wobble in January, what is it going to be like in March, in April and in May?

Ayo Akimolere (3:00)

Make sure you check out James's piece right now on the Athletic. Adam, should Arsenal fans be worried? Are Arsenal their greatest enemies?

Adam Kraft (3:07)

Yes, in the sense of, you know, it's three games. They've taken two points in the last three games, which isn't good, which I think they'll be naturally worried about. I think this anxiety in some of the home games, it's not the first time, I think that's fair to say. Even if you go back to. Was it the Wolves game just before? Was that maybe December, November, even. That seemed like incredibly frantic around that time. But then, you know, when they lost against Aston Villa in December, they responded really well and went on a really good run. So I think Arsenal's responses to defeats during this season, you know, both the Liverpool game early, the Villa one, now this one, has in general been pretty good. But I think they're fortunate that there actually isn't really a stronger challenger this season. Because, you know, if you did have a Manchester City that was fully on it, or a Liverpool that was fully on it, dare I say, even if Manchester United had eight more points on the board, given the way they play in the last two weeks, you'd start being a lot more anxious. Whereas I think at the moment it is still very much in Arsenal's hands. If you think about the games that they've played twice now, they've already played Villa twice, they've played Liverpool twice, they played Manchester United twice. So a lot of their hardest games are out of the way. And what I would say yesterday wasn't just about Arsenal. I think it was probably the hardest Arsenal could have actually had yesterday in the Premier League, which not many people have said often about playing Man United, but I think just this specific moment where all of a sudden Manchester United are quite confident again. And also Manchester United have for years really been uniquely suited to sitting back and counter punching. And they have a high amount of quality that can create moments like Kunya did late on. So I think there was a few things that went into it. But in short, yeah, Arsenal need to get their heads right because that is what is holding them back.

Ayo Akimolere (5:02)

What Adam says There about Arsenal getting their heads right is really interesting because in James's piece, there's a really lovely line that says, but this recent run has exposed a chink in Arsenal's psychological armor. Do you think there's something to that?

Art Durocher (5:15)

Yeah, I do. Because this isn't something that's just in isolation to this season, of course. Three games without a win. You see in the first one of those games, Liverpool at home, it was a very similar rhythm. I felt where they started really well for the first 20 minutes. And then something just changed. The energy changed and Liverpool were on top for the rest of that game. Against Nottingham Forest, it was similar where they didn't play as well, but there are moments where Mikel Arteta said after the game, they just lost composure in those moments where maybe there's a loose ball and they didn't take care of the ball well enough. And that's, of course, what led to Manchester United's equalizer in the first half. But when you look at previous seasons, there have been stretches of games. So if you look at the first title run, 22, 23, it was three draws and a loss in April that really, really halted their momentum in that season. The year after. It came at Christmas where they lost to West Ham at home and then Fulham away around the festive period. And then last season, you look at the. Really, I think it was at the start of the year, so October time, they. They lost to Bournemouth, then they drew to Liverpool and there was another game in there where they just. I think they went four games without a win in the league. So you've seen season on season, there have been moments where they've struggled to really reset. And it felt yesterday as though half time would have been a really nice opportunity for them to reset mentally. But they came out and they were arguably worse than they were at the end of the first half. So I think when you're looking at how this Arsenal team have played not just in this few weeks, but how they have these spells across seasons, it is something where you say, okay, how are you going to resolve that issue?

Adam Kraft (7:15)

Do you know what amazed me? I thought the first 20, 25 minutes thought Arsenal were by far the better team. I thought Rice was the best player on the pitch by a mile. I actually thought he was playing at, like a different intensity to even to his own teammates. He was just running the game. And when Arsenal went a goal up, I mean, I was watching it. Spoiler as a Manchester United fan thinking, arsenal have gone 1 nil up. Man United haven't done much for the first 20, 25 minutes here and, and nothing happens when Arsenal go one nil up in games. You know, Arsenal go and win that game. And it was like a really weird thing where Arsenal just became, I don't know if it was complacency that crept in and a sluggishness and a slowness, but they didn't use the momentum that they should have got from going 1 nil up in the game to just take that game be away from Man United. And if you saw after that half chance that Bruno Fernandes had where Saliba made a great challenge, Arteta was going mad. It was like, how dare you guys let Manchester United even have a half chance of goal. And it was like from that moment on there was just this momentum shift in the game and obviously the equalizer, etc. But really from the moment Arsenal scored until the end of the game, they didn't really look like the better team. And that was what was really strange to me. They didn't look in control or composed. And that was very unusual for a team that is basically built on winning games. One nil, two nil.

Art Durocher (8:40)

Yeah, I think that point's really important because it's not just something that was evident in the United game, but Wolves, as you mentioned before, Adam, and also Brentford. I think it was a week before that where Arsenal go 1 nil up and the nerves kind of set in inside the stadium because Arsenal haven't built on that momentum in a way that you would expect them to. And I think when, when you don't do that, and I remember writing at the time, I think Arsenal had the most one goal leads going into the final 15 minutes of matches. And while it's good to have a lead, it also keeps you in a game. And there are so many games this season where they could have killed it off much earlier than they, than they eventually did in some instances. And of course they weren't able to do against Manchester United.

Ayo Akimolere (9:33)

I want to talk about the style of play a little later, but back on that point, in terms of the crowd and especially the stadium, as an Arsenal fan watching it, I, I, I can't but think the amount of nerves I have watching this team potentially throw it away. Do you think there's an overarching conversation here about being scarred from years gone by? 20, 23, we'll talk about a bit later on and that trepidation that, oh, if we make a mistake here, it's over?

Art Durocher (10:00)

Yeah, I do. And I don't think it's a conversation where there's somebody at fault. So when we're looking at this, I think it's really important to say how natural those emotions are, because if you've been burnt once, twice, three times even, you're going to be even more cautious the fourth time you come along. And I think when you're viewing, I guess, Arsenal matches, it is something you can feel, as James said in his voice note, it is a real emotion. And I do feel like it feeds onto what happens on the pitch. There are moments where I think the fans or supporters are looking for one thing from the players, and then the players on the pitch actually are doing something completely different, completely opposite. And in those moments, you want them to be aligned on the same page. And it just feels like there's an internal kind of struggle going on between, okay, wanting to go out for the win, but then also maybe not wanting to lose what they already have. And I think that's a really difficult place to live within, because you're in between two places. You're not in one kind of zone, in one headspace. You're constantly fighting. And I think going into the second half of the season, that's where I guess the whole club really has to really align on what they're looking for beyond just results, because I think when the result is on your mind the whole time, that's when you get moments like that.

Ayo Akimolere (11:33)

Adam, how damaging could it be if Arsenal don't win the Premier League this season? Don't get me wrong, like, they're still firing on all cylinders and all the competition at this moment in time, but considering how Mikel Arteta was backed, you've got the players you want, you've got the depth in squad, and they don't leave with the Premier League at the end of the season. Does he have to question whether or not he's good to be at the helm of Arsenal, for instance?

Adam Kraft (11:57)

Well, that's skipping several steps ahead. Right. There's still four. I've never heard a fan base call for a manager to maybe leave while they're top of the League in January.

Ayo Akimolere (12:11)

From a journalistic point of view, I just wanted to ask the question. Imagine this as a presser. Imagine this is a press conference. I'm asking you the question. I don't believe it, but I'm going for it.

Adam Kraft (12:19)

Yeah. I mean, they're basically, they're going to be in the League Cup Final. You would think they are top of the Champions League, whatever that means. You know, they're going to go through to the next round of the Champions League League very, very easily. They've had some fantastic results in Europe. They could still win several trophies this season. So, I mean, if we're really getting into like hypotheticals, you know, if Arsenal were to win the Champions League and the League cup, that's an amazing season. It would be very weird from where we are now for that to be the way that it kind of pans out. I think if Arsenal was to end the season trophyless, there would of course be major questions at that point, mostly just because of the standards they've set, which is they are a team that hit 80 to 90 points. The thing that I noticed yesterday actually, and I actually saw it in point, this isn't just like someone saying this after a defeat. You know, I saw this being pushed by some pretty good sort of match going Arsenal fans online as well, was I was surprised how sort of the stadium sort of started to empty a bit before half. Time. You know, you had like, people. It was almost like the old prawn cocktail thing that Roy Keane would talk about 25 years ago, where like five minutes before halftime, at a very important point in the game actually for Arsenal, you kind of had like fans filtering out, going to get a drink, going to whatever's on the entertainment offer for Arsenal in the terraces. And I found that strange because that was arguably like one of the most important periods of Arsenal season potentially. And it's like fans aren't fully focused or if they are focused, they're kind of going insane to a certain extent. And I understand it because everyone's got this palpable desperation to win. And by the way, what I don't want to do and what I don't think should happen, this shouldn't be like a thing where it's like, oh, could Arsenal fans cost Arsenal the League? No. If Arsenal don't win this League, it's because of the team and it's because of the coach, because it is there for them to go and win. It wasn't Arsenal fans that caused Arsenal to give Manchester United encouragement in the game yesterday. It was the team on the pitch that didn't use the momentum. And also I think we're going to talk about the style a little bit as well. There are games where they don't offer enough from a creative point of view, where they are so structured and so coached that it holds them back in some way. And if they don't win the League, it's because of all of those things more than it will be because fans are understandably nervous because the game's never put to bed.

Ayo Akimolere (14:42)

Would you stand on that?

Art Durocher (14:44)

Yeah, I agree. When you look at how games pan out, and I think Mika Arteta has spoken about this before, sorry to use the phrase again, it's a two way relationship. So whatever's happening on the pitch is going to influence what happens in the stands and vice versa. So I think when you're looking at this Arsenal and where they've come from, some of their, I guess, most important moments where that relationship has been really aligned. You look at William Saliba, his first season, I think it was his first home game, he scores an own goal and the whole stadium reacts by applauding him. And I think it's moments like that where you see the importance of what a fan base can do. But then there are other moments where you need the players on the pitch to really drag, I guess, the fans into that mood as well. So I think it's one aspect of, I guess especially the game in England where that relationship is so important and it's not just dependent on one or the other, it's both of them.

Ayo Akimolere (15:52)

All right, quick one, guys. You like listening to us, but we want to hear from you. This time we're asking you to fill a quick survey out about your podcast habits by going to theathletic.com survey26. Three lucky entries will win $100 or pounds worth of Amazon vouchers as well. So whether you're a longtime listener or a new one, we want your feedback. Go to theathletic.com survey26 that's theathletic.com survey 26. The link is also in our episode Descript. Appreciate your time.

Adam Kraft (16:30)

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Ayo Akimolere (17:57)

Let's not lose sight of the fact that Arsenal are still four points ahead at the top of the Premier League. And look, that was the first home defeat this season to a Manchester United team that is on the upsurge. For now at least, we've spoken about how perhaps you know, what's happening on the field can contribute to the anxiety of the fans as well. Adam But I want to point out something and it's something I put in the athletic WhatsApp group in terms of how Arsenal have turned up especially in the big games this season. You look at the Liverpool game, you look at Arsenal vs Manchester City, of course it was a last minute equalizer. Chelsea 11 again against 10 men. Nil. Nil back the home leg against Liverpool. Arsenal losing 32 to Manchester United at home as well. Can we just have a little talk about the structure and how Arsenal potentially aren't adapting for the opposition? Because if you want to win the league surely you to show your credentials against the biggest teams and your biggest opponents in the league as well.

Adam Kraft (18:51)

Well look, first of all some balance that they did win at Old Trafford. They did opening day of the season, they did bat us Hottenham and they did batter Aston Villa who are, you know by the way, when I mentioned challenges earlier on I probably did a disservice to Villa who are also four points off still and had a fantastic result at Newcastle yesterday made that game look a lot easier than most other teams do. So there is definitely an element in these big games where often as a neutral you tune into these big games where you think Arsenal are going for the league and I think Arsenal fans probably feel similarly where you want them to just go and take that game and show everyone why they're going to go and win the league. I think some of that expectation is a bit unfair. I thought the reaction when they lost by an odd goal at Anfield early in the season was a bit harsh. But some of the other ones yesterday it was completely fair. The Chelsea away one against 10 men was very fair. Villa away I thought was more kind of like end to end Game it was. I didn't think Arsenal were that limited in that game. And the City one I thought was disappointing as well. So I think there is a bit of a block for either the coach or the players in these games where they have to do more in terms of the way the team's set up. There is clearly an issue because there's a lot of creative and attacking players who aren't getting numbers right. So it can't be the case that all of Saka, Martinelli, Trossard, Gyokeres, Jes, Odegaard, Eze aren't capable of scoring and making goals. They're too good. So there is a point then when there is a pattern that develops over a period of time where you then have to question is the way that they're being set up maximized to give them the best opportunity to hit those numbers. Octeta may take the view that we're generally getting to where we need to be without them doing that, and that's okay. But I do think we get into a very weird point where Arsenal are like the favorites to win the league, but if you're making a team of the season, you don't have an Arsenal creative player in the team. That never happens. Right. Like, I can't remember that ever happening. But you know who at the you're not having at the moment? Saka, Odegaard, Martinelli, Jesus Gyokeres, Eze. I want to talk about Eze a bit later as well, because I don't understand what's going on there. And that is strange. That is something that they need to fix because it can't just be that they're all out of form and all lacking confidence.

Ayo Akimolere (21:18)

Is it the style? Is it the system? You know, no goal for Saka in 13. Gabriel Martinelli hasn't scored in 13 Premier League games as well. Jorres has one goal in 11 Premier League games, a penalty away hit at Everton. Trossard has just one goal in 11 games. I mean, I've named all those players on paper. That's a very attacking forward line there. But the return doesn't seem to be the same.

Art Durocher (21:43)

Yeah, it's disappointing. And when you look at, I guess, Arsenal and how they've attacked in previous seasons, the standout everyone always mentions is that 22, 23 season. And I feel like the response to that from other teams Mikhail Tech spoke about before the Manchester United game and said, basically the game plans that you had then two, three years ago, throw them in the bin. Because the way teams set up now is Completely different. And they don't do certain behaviors unless they're losing. So they won't go for a game, basically, unless they've already gone behind. And I think you've seen, I guess, Arsenal struggle with that, not just this season, but last season, too, where they just kind of. They go into these patterns of play that are so predictable, where you know where the ball is going to move to. So, you know Saka is going to get on the right wing and then he's going to pass it back and it's going to work his way around. Whereas I think when you see the squad that they've assembled, as you've both said, there's so many creative players in there, there feels like there has to be a way for all of them to kind of coexist and really tear teams apart. But they're just, I guess the way they're set up is to be in control the whole time. Whereas, I guess if you're looking at football in its purest form, no team should be in control the whole time. It should be allowed to breathe more. And we haven't seen that. That's why, again, it might kind of feed into that nervousness, because you're almost seeing the same game play out every week and you're waiting for something different to happen. And something different did happen with Eze in the Tottenham game, as Adam mentioned. And I did actually look back to what Arteta said after that game, and he said that he wants to play Eze closer to the box. And if that's what you want to do, I guess the only place to do that is as a number 10. But then shortly after Martin Odegaard comes back from his injury, and then I guess that then it's a call. Are you going to drop your captain to play a new signing? I think that's an incredibly difficult decision to make unless you play them together.

Adam Kraft (23:59)

I mean, Arteta was at City when you would have. I think there was Fernandinho. I may be getting the players wrong, but Fernandinho, Bernardo Silva, Kevin De Bruyne as like a 4, 3, 3 or a Rodri and Bernardo Silva and De Bruyne could Arsenal not. I'm not saying you do that against Manchester United and leave yourselves a bit more open, but surely at home against, you know, bottom half of the table teams, they could try that a little bit more. Or you could have Eze from the left instead of Trossard. Maybe Adam Watcher, Arsenal as closely as you. Does Eze actually deserve to be starting based on how he's played the last couple of months.

Ayo Akimolere (24:34)

I think as a wide player, what I've noticed, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that he's been relatively ineffective in this system as a left sided player. From a Trossard perspective, I think he started there top end of the season. I think when he's more central is when he's shown that he's able to offer something differently. Also, I think he's also been caught in transition sometimes and given the ball away as well and been careless in those positions. Perhaps that's where you see the tussle between him and Odegaard. What do you think, Art?

Art Durocher (25:01)

Yeah, I think on the left I feel like Arteta just trusts Trossard and Martinelli a bit more because of what they can do, obviously in that final third, but also defensively. And then when you look at what he wants from Eze in terms of getting shots off just outside the box, to do that, you're going to have to play him as a 10. And he did try and play Odegaard and Eze together with Rice sitting. So what you were mentioning in terms of that kind of City setup, he tried it once against West Ham and Odegaard came off injured after 30 minutes and he hasn't gone back to that since. I did ask him after that game actually if he would and he said he would like to at some point, but we just haven't seen it yet. And for me, I'm personally quite interested to see when he does try that again, because if you look at how the season's gone, it's been Rice and Zubamendi holding basically, and then Odegaard as the creator. Zubamende's played more minutes than any Arsenal player, any outfield player for Arsenal this season. So there will be moments where he needs a rest or a breather. And I think having Eze and Erdogan together could just give Arsenal a different dimension because as you guys both said, like they're top of the league and we're still having these conversations about how they're not even at their best or their potential best. And I think there's so many different ways, I guess, that Arteta could potentially set this team up that, that it makes you think, okay, when are they going to hit, say gear, gear 3 or gear 4?

Ayo Akimolere (26:46)

It's so interesting when teams get into a situation whereby they need to get something back and they fall back into the same patterns. And I wonder, Adam, if the bravery does stem from Mikel Arteta to allow his players to do what they can do to do, what their abilities allow them to do, and just allow them to fly, dare I say, take the handbrake off. I don't want to go down that route, but in all honesty, I mean, just let them do what they're.

Adam Kraft (27:12)

I think there's a bit of that. I've also. I think I've said this in, like, previous seasons and maybe previous episodes. They are so good at these corners and set pieces.

Ayo Akimolere (27:22)

Yeah.

Adam Kraft (27:23)

But I think there is a point at which it might even be like a psychological hindrance for them, because it's almost like they think it's their way to score a goal. And they spend so much time sort of faffing about, getting in the positions, doing all their little. They'll run to the back post, then they cause chaos.

Ayo Akimolere (27:42)

It is effective, though. Of course it is effective. It does the job.

Adam Kraft (27:45)

Of course it is. But it shouldn't need to be this effective. The top of the League and too many of their goals are needing to be scored from these scenarios. And I'm not saying it's a downside that they score goals from set piece. Of course it's not. It's a great asset. But it's almost like, you know, when they're chasing that game yesterday, the only time I was worried watching the team that was defending was when the ball was out of play for a corner, which is really weird, which is a really weird thing against a team that's going for the title. Whenever Arsenal had the ball in possession. I mean, there was one save down low that Lohmans made from Saka. That was it. There wasn't another chance from open play. And it wasn't like Man United, you know, yes, they sat deep, but they weren't super negative. It was interesting when Dawgu got the injury, he brought Sesko on. He didn't bring on a Mazraui at that point. He actually went for it and thought, this slot aren't doing that much in open play. We can afford to have Kunya as kind of playing from the left. I thought that was revealing in terms of what it said about the threat Arsenal pose at a point in the game. Remember where Arsenal had Saka on the pitch, Madueke on the pitch, Ben White was overlapping and Michael Carrick basically said, yeah, Kanye can do a bit from the left where he's not very particularly sort of disciplined going back the other way. So, yeah, in short, they need to feel more free on the pitch. But it was also interesting last week, you know that clip that went Very viral. Of what Rice said at the end of the gaming aids Forest, which could have meant anything. Right? It could have been just a screech to the heavens. It could have been a screech about the decision. It could have been anything. But it did seem a bit like how Arsenal fans probably feel watching the game. You know, this sense of we're just not doing it. We're just not getting over the line in some way. It's going to be interesting the next few weeks, you know, the next few away games for Arsenal, Leeds, Brentford and Spurs. Away. I mean spurs. At some point they're going to win a home game.

Ayo Akimolere (29:47)

Preferably not this one.

Adam Kraft (29:48)

But they might have a new manager by then. You know, they might be on the team on the bounce by then. Leeds isn't an easy game at the moment. And by the way, Leeds and Brentford are pretty good at set pieces too. They have to do more from open play in these games.

Ayo Akimolere (30:02)

Okay, well, before we move on, talk about money, United for the two of you. Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. This trivia question is gonna lead us quite nicely into it, I'm hoping. So. Question is, Sunday was the first time Manchester United have won a league game at the emirates since the 31 win in December 2017. And who were the scorers on that day?

Art Durocher (30:22)

Jesse Lingard. Yep.

Adam Kraft (30:26)

Valencia.

Ayo Akimolere (30:27)

Yes.

Art Durocher (30:28)

Oh, yeah, that's the shout.

Adam Kraft (30:29)

I think that's it.

Ayo Akimolere (30:30)

Who was the Arsenal?

Art Durocher (30:31)

That was the day David De Gea made like a thousand saves.

Adam Kraft (30:34)

Lacazette.

Ayo Akimolere (30:35)

Oh, Adam. Come on. Naughty. Well done. Yeah, really good. Really good. Really good. You've actually been quite good on Arsenal stuff today. Very surprising, very interesting.

Adam Kraft (30:44)

Pogba Sanov. Pogba Sanov.

Ayo Akimolere (30:46)

Yes, he was. But Pogba was also in that celebration before he got set off with Lingard as well. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. Haunts me still today. All right, let's move on because we've questioned where things are going wrong for Arsenal. Next, let's discuss Michael Carrick's resurgent Manchester United.

Art Durocher (31:03)

This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akimolere.

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Ayo Akimolere (32:51)

What a sensational hit from Matos Ka. Okay, so I was at the pub yesterday watching the match between Arsenal and Manchester United, and over my shoulder, when Manchester United won, there was a Man United fan saying, iowa, Kimwlere, put that on your podcast. So it's exactly what we're doing now, giving Manchester United their flowers. Adam, what have you made of Michael Carrick's tenure so far? Two matches to win.

Adam Kraft (33:16)

It's pretty amazing. It's pretty amazing in terms of the results. Also in the fact that the results are probably just about deserved. You know, I don't think yesterday if it was a draw, people would've said it was like a travesty or anything. But I think what Carrick's done, and I don't mean this again as a disservice, but I think he's just made everything a lot more simple. You know, players are playing in, like, the positions they're meant to play in. You've got right backs at right back and left backs at left back and wingers on the wing. You've got Bruno Fernandes playing a number 10, like, stuff that, like, under Amarim. It calls this, like, almost like civil war in the fan base of like, how dare you suggest that Bruno Fernandes is not a deep, lying midfielder. How dare you suggest that it doesn't have to be three at the back again in every single game. So I think there's a bit of that, obviously Mainoo's come back in, done well. Casemiro's been really good alongside him with sort of less spaces to cover on the pitch. He's made some big decisions in terms of of Kunye on the bench for both games, but actually having a huge impact off the bench. I don't know how sustainable that is with Matthias Cunhe because clearly he's a character that will want to start games. And also Mbermo over Sesko as the number nine and playing Ahmad from the wing. So he's had to leave some big money players out, some big signings. Harry Maguire coming back in, doing really well. So I think there's a few things that have come together. One is clearly some of the players were just fed up of the last coach and wanted to change. So you get a bit of a boost that comes with that. He's setting up the team really well. You know, you beat Man City, that gives huge confidence. You take the lead. Having been behind at Arsenal, that gives you confidence. The other thing that really surprised me twice actually yesterday is, you know, something we've spoken a lot about on this podcast is how Man United concede goals in batches, you know, where often it'll be like they'll concede two in five minutes. So I thought, first of all, when they went one nil down, I thought that might become two really fast. And then when it went two two, I never thought Man United would go and get the third, you know, definitely as quickly as they did. So I think that is a kind of a mentality shift within the group. That is a big surprise. That has been really fast. So it's. Yeah, I mean, it's fantastic from a United point of view. I think next week, you know, they've got Fulham at home. That's a very different type of game in terms of how you set up that game. That probably have to be more space on the pitch, you know, maybe Maguire plays a couple of yards up the field and what does that pose to United? So that's one of the challenges, you know, that even in the, you know, the good times Under Solskjaer or 10 Hag, every time they try to become more of the. I guess you'd call like the protagonist of the game, that's where they would get caught out. So if you can unlock that, that then they're really onto something.

Ayo Akimolere (36:10)

Yeah. Carrick side, the first team to win at the Emirates this season. It was impressive from where I was sitting. Was it impressive from where you were sitting as well?

Art Durocher (36:17)

Yeah, I think what stood out most was they didn't start the game well, but as Adam said about Arsenal not playing free, they played free and sensed the moment to go for it. And I think they did the same against Manchester City. Even though that was a more kind of sustained, strong performance throughout both halves, I think they really sensed when it was time to go for it. And the Dawgu goal, I think, sums it up. I know Kunyu's goal was amazing as well, but the little interchange between Dawgu and Fernandez, I think it's just. It's as if they were playing football at, like, goals, playing five a side. And I think that's what people like seeing when football is just natural like that. So that was what impressed me most. It didn't seem like it was a rehearsed move. It was just football as it was supposed to be played.

Ayo Akimolere (37:15)

Is that what you mean by the simple things?

Adam Kraft (37:18)

Yeah, I think so. And I think also just the Kunyawan, as soon as he was on the half turn in space, it was like. It felt like everyone knew that was going to be a goal. Even though it was 25 yards out, it was like the gap was there. You knew he was a player capable of doing it. That was number. Unbelievable goal. The sort of speed of it and the. The pace of it, the little interplay. I'm curious from the Arsenal side, I rarely see Arsenal kind of give up those kind of shooting opportunities in the middle of the pitch, sort of 20, 25 yards out. And look, it's unlucky when two players do that in the space of half an hour, but for just from a defensive point of view. Oh, do you want the center backs coming out more at that? Do you want Rice and Subamendi not being played around? Is it a bit of both. Both, like, what stops those goals for Arsenal?

Art Durocher (38:07)

I think it's just coming from the source, basically. So a lot of times in the first half, what I thought Arsenal did well was shutting down any chance for United to break forward. So there's times where Erdogan's trapped back really well because everyone's seen the Manchester Derby. They've seen where the goals have come from, those fast breaks, and they shut them down really well. Whereas in those moments, I believe. I can't remember who it was for the Dorkugo, but for the Kunya one, it's Merino. He just kind of. He just gets it wrong and he, I think, just loses his footing and that's where it comes from. And I can't Remember who I was speaking to but we were talking about Gabrielle and how him actually trying to make that block almost made it harder for Raya because he gets unsighted by his body and it goes into the far post and that's not anything. I'm not going to say Gabriel shouldn't have done that because you want your defenders to try and engage the ball. But I think once the initial ball's lost, that's when Arsenal were dead.

Ayo Akimolere (39:15)

Basically it's fourth feasible for Man United this season. Adam Liverpool obviously dropping out of that recently, but I mean, who knows where it'll end up. But I mean this is decent form.

Adam Kraft (39:25)

Yeah, I think, to be fair, I think from the, even from the start of the season, you know, with the idea that they'd have a game a week, the quality that they have in the team, I think it should always have been a feasible aim. You know, you're not asking for the moon. For Man United to finish fourth or even fifth is almost certainly going to be Champions League. I actually think Man United have half a chance of being third in that group, to be honest, just because of the amount of games that Villa, Man City are likely to have have towards the end of the season. Clearly one of those teams could go and really challenge Arsenal and in which case fair enough. But like you're always wary of getting carried away with Man United. As I say they're about to finish third or second but I really don't think it's like beyond the realm of possibility if their squad is mostly fit because they've got a lot of really good players. Look at the quality. Are their forward options worse than Arsenal? You know, and Burmo Kunya Fernandez Sesco has shown sort of as many moments as Gyokerez has. Probably you'd say like maybe Gyokras slightly, slightly more Mason Mountain get on the pitch yesterday. They probably do lack another left sided player, you know, that is more traditional. That's mostly because of the way they kind of rebuilt the squad for Ruben Amarim and they, and they could get caught out if one or one of Casemiro or Mainoo pick up an injury as well because there's not many other options in there. But in general I think they've got a decent chance definitely of the top four or five. That should now be the aim because of the position they've put themselves in. The other player who I thought was really good yesterday because I think being a goalkeeper against Arsenal is so hard. Every set piece is an occasion. They crowd around you it's chaos in there. Everyone's nervous. I thought Lomens was really good. He sort of came for everything. You know, obviously he kind of half missed the one that Arsenal scored from for the second goal, but even after that, he kept coming. I think if you're a fan or a defender, that's exactly what you want because you basically haven't faced like 15 or 20 of them in the game. So if you're coming out with like a 98% success rate from those, I think that's really good. And he's sort of getting better and better, which is encouraging.

Art Durocher (41:45)

Just quickly, on the no Europe thing, everyone talks about that 22, 23 season for Arsenal as the kind of the start of this iteration of them. And I personally think he actually started the year before, which was 21, 22, when they didn't have Europe. And in the second half of that season is when they really started to click and find, I guess, different patterns that could work, different connections in the team. So I think, I think this period, whether or not Michael Carrick stays beyond the summer, I think could be really important to really inform what happens in, say, the first half of next season. Because we saw that happen with Arsenal, and I don't think Arsenal get to where they are today without that period where they basically had a full week to plan for games and really think about what they wanted to do.

Ayo Akimolere (42:40)

Before we go, Adam, we haven't done this for a while. Let's do the final whistle. You got a minute to beat the clock to see if you can tell us what caught your eye in the world of football this weekend. All right, let's go for it. 3, 2, 1. Let's have it.

Adam Kraft (42:52)

I'm going to talk about Iriola at Bournemouth this weekend and compare it to what we've seen from Oliver Glasner over the last few weeks. If you look at Bournemouth, kind of, they've lost a huge amount of key players going back to last summer and again in January. They lose Semenya, you look at Crystal palace, obviously lost key players, lost their European place, both coaches out of contract at the end of the season. Yet one we hear far more often is out of contract at the end of the season, which is Glasner, and clearly he's made clear he's going and that's his right. But I think the way Iraola has dealt with all of the which has been thrown at him, losing those players contracts up at the end of the season. Team, though, remains completely committed, focused, continues to always play the same way. And I think new clubs, potential new clubs will pay attention to how those two have kind of divergingly managed that situation.

Ayo Akimolere (43:46)

Not bad. 54 seconds. Iriola does deserve his flowers after beating Liverpool at 32 in the dying seconds of that match as well. Thoroughly enjoyed that, guys. Thanks so much for joining us. Adam, appreciate your time and also thank you guys for joining us as well. We'll be back soon.

Art Durocher (44:03)

You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beal with editing by Paul Iliff and Nick Thompson. The executive producer is Adey Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic wherever you get your podcasts. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe the Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.

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Nikayla from Side Hustle Pro (45:54)

Hey, it's Raj and Noah, and we're back with a new season of Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

Adam Kraft (46:03)

Because we're still doing a lot of stuff wrong.

Nikayla from Side Hustle Pro (46:05)

But who isn't? That's why each week we're talking about the topics that we could all use a little helping hit with, whether it's making new friends as an adult managing our emotions or even dreaming.

Adam Kraft (46:13)

We'll be talking to experts in their fields who are definitely doing things right, so the rest of us can be a bit wiser and a lot better equipped to handle whatever life throws at us.

Nikayla from Side Hustle Pro (46:22)

Subscribe now and listen to new episodes of Am I Doing It Wrong? Dropping every Thursday starting January 1st, where wherever you get your podcasts.

Adam Kraft (46:30)

And for the first time ever, we're gonna have full video episodes on YouTube. Because as long as there are things to get wrong, we're gonna be right here to help you do them better. Love y' all.