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Morgan Chase
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- [02:59]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [03:07]
Morgan Chase
Hello, I'm.
- [03:08]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Ayo Akimwaleri and welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast. Things are looking good for Chelsea in the Premier League. Neto onto it despite the efforts of Share Jackson. Absolutely brilliant by Chelsea. Despite this, their manager Enzo Maresca has urged captain Reece James to show more leadership. So is a proper leader what Chelsea are missing? I'm joined by the Athletics Chelsea writer Liam Toomey and also lead writer for the Athletic FC's newsletter, Phil Hay as well. Liam, you're in a car park of the Chelsea training ground having just been at Enzo Maresca's press conference. Chelsea sitting fifth after beating Newcastle on the weekend, just one point behind Aston Villa and Arsenal. Are they surprising people right now?
- [03:59]
Morgan Chase
I don't know if surprised is the word, because we know there's talent in this squad and there was a feeling around Stamford Bridge that things were coming together towards the end of last season. They ended on a run of five straight wins. They finished sixth. And the thing that really nixed that as far as supporters were concerned, was the fact that Chelsea then decided to mutually part ways with Mauricio Pochettino and to it felt like start again to choose revolution over evolution. But I don't think that's actually been the case on the pitch. I think people felt coming in that Mareska would be a little bit more dogmatic in terms of his style than he's ended up being. And what we've actually seen is, yeah, I would call it an evolution from what we saw under Pochettino. A little bit more control, but still quite transitional in the way that they attack thrillingly. So for that first goal against Newcastle with with the vision of Cole Palmer and the speed in front of him, and I think a lot of this group are benefiting from the fact that they've had a year together. Yes, there were signings in the summer, some notable ones, and some of them have made an impact, but the chemistry between Palmer and Nicholas Jackson, for example, that is something that has built up over more than 12 months and I think these are things that have ensured that Maresca has not been Starting from scratch with this group and, and what he's done around that is make smart tactical tweaks from week to week. Manage the squad in interesting ways, including that challenge to Reece James that we mentioned and I think continue to, to try to evolve this team style. You know, he mentioned after Newcastle we don't want to be in basketball games. There's a feeling that Chelsea are still a bit fast even for him at times. So it's still a process. But they weren't expecting results to be brilliant under Maresca immediately. So for them to be sitting fifth and looking relatively on track to be the fourth best team in the Premier League this season I think is an encouraging sign for everyone involved.
- [06:11]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Yeah, Phil, seven wins in their last nine in all competitions. I remember us doing a podcast on Mareska and you weren't that sold. Phil, are your opinions changing a little bit? Are you lightening up on him? You thinking you're seeing something that a top Premier League manager so far?
- [06:28]
Liam Toomey
Yeah, I'm not so sure. I wasn't sold on Maresca so much as not sold on Chelsea and dubious about them and how it would work on the basis of the squad building undeniably and how it had gone under Pochettino, who himself was and is a very elite high level coach. I saw a lot of Maresca last season. I was covering Leeds United in the championship and he was coaching Leicester City and it was very obvious from what he was doing and how the season went for Leicester, Leicester that given strong crop of players which he undoubtedly had, he was able to implement a plan that worked. And there was a wobble for Leicester towards the end of the season but they deserved to win the title, which they did by, you know, a fairly, or at least finished up to buy a fairly comfortable distance. They did take the title, but you know, Ipswich were in the running right the way to. To the end. What was strange about Leicester and particularly the crowd there was that his football seemed to cause quite a lot of dissatisfaction or at least didn't satisfy them in the way that it should have done given how good and you know, consistently impressive results were. Chelsea, I think have been a really good watch this season. And I don't get the sense, Liam can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't get the sense that there's been an awful lot of grumbling down at Stamford Bridge about Maresque's football. It feels as if the, the warming Tim. It feels as if they're quite happy to be patient with him and, and to let him, you know, get his feet under the table and, and get to grips with what isn't and wasn't an easy job when, when he took it. And I think the biggest compliment you can pay to him is that he seems to have made sense of what looks from the outside like a pretty complex dressing room or at least a pretty complex player list. Picking your strongest or best 11 out of that set didn't seem easy, nor did doing that while at the same time keeping others fairly content or fairly happy given that the minutes were going to be limited for them. And I think he has put his finger on who the best players in this squad are. I think he's managed to establish some really strong combinations, particularly the Palmer Jackson axis which is so efficient, effective and you know, again against Newcastle really did help to, to make the difference. And I think we've probably gone from that conversation you, I and Liam had about can Chelsea finish top four or will they finish top four? And all of us saying really not sure to be honest, maybe, maybe not to thinking actually they're very much in the running. And what I thought was really interesting on Sunday was that Newcastle and I think it was Jacob Whitehead for the Athletic wrote this afterwards, very much looked like a mid table team in that game. The passing out from the back I thought was extremely poor and really intermittent and unreliable. And compared to them, Chelsea looked far more like a fourth place contender. I don't think they'll finish higher than that in the table, but I think for them they'll feel at this early stage that the Champions League is on.
- [09:11]
Morgan Chase
Maresca's got two big things going for him. One, he didn't use to coach Tottenham and two, he's Italian, which has always played well at Chelsea as, as a coach. And I think, I think the, the positive vibe thing is generally true at Stanford Bridge. I mean, getting positive results always helps. And the only murmurings that you've heard in recent weeks about the style at all have generally been directed at Robert Sanchez because his distribution has continued to be a bit erratic. He's a bit error prone in his decision making as well as actually the passes that he ends up playing. And there's very little trust for him among Chelsea supporters. You can feel it in the ground and it can get to a point where it becomes a bit of a downward spiral where he makes a mistake, the crowd get on his back, then he's more likely to make another one. But Maresca has been absolutely steadfast in his support of Sanchez to the point where I would Be surprised to see him dropped anytime soon. And that's been an example, I think, of him putting his arm around the player in public. You know, there haven't been too many examples of that. He's tended to be a bit more of an iron front, I would have thought, in terms of, you know, the way he was talking about the players who weren't involved towards the end of the transfer window, the way he publicly challenged Rhys James and some of the other players in this squad to show a bit more leadership. He has been firm when, when he's felt he's. He's needed to be, but there is a sense that he's got the players with him.
- [10:44]
Ayo Akimwaleri
I'm interested in this sort of feel good factor. I wonder if it's the fact that Chelsea fans are actually finally seeing sequences go together with the team. You think about that beautiful pass telegraphed by Palmer and then it went to Neto and then Nicolas Jackson finishes it off nicely. I look at the Palithanikos game. Jewsbury hall picks it up in the midfield, pings it out. I think it was to Mudryk and then to Joao Felix and then goal. They are finishing chances and we are seeing clear counter attacking football.
- [11:11]
Morgan Chase
Yeah, I think the structure has a couple of big benefits. One, it's easier for fans to see what the plan is. And that wasn't always the case under Mauricio Pochettino. It did look a little bit chaotic, a bit ad hoc at times. Sometimes for better, but sometimes for worse. And I think it's also really benefited a lot of the players. I mean, Cole Palmer doesn't need it. He thrived in chaos last season. I think just put him on the pitch and let him do what he does. And he's shown now that he is a Premier League superstar. But in terms of the players around him, I think you're seeing a lot of examples of, of players really growing because they have defined roles and they're in a system that makes sense around them. Moises Caicedo has been playing really well for a long time now in Chelsea's midfield. And he looks better when he's got at least someone within 10 yards of him when Chelsea lose the ball. And the fact that Chelsea are inverting a fullback usually or keeping one of their midfielders deeper means that he's got that little bit more protection. And I think you look at, you know, players like Pedro Neto, I think, has been more impressive on the left or the right. After a start where he was getting up to speed, Nonny Madueike, I think, has really benefited from the targeted way that Maresca has used him. You know, at the start of the season, it wasn't clear what the plan for Medway was because Palmer started on the right wing against Manchester City. But then as soon as Maresca moved him into that right pocket, as he calls it, it created room for Mare to play outside of him. And that combination of Palmer's passing and Mode's directness and speed has been really, really potent. And it was almost flipped against Newcastle because Maresca moved him to the left pocket and then weaponized Neto on the other side. So he's got really good options to do that. The balance of always feels quite coherent. I think that's benefited Nicholas Jackson, made him feel more confident in what he's doing. You're seeing that in his finishing. And even defensively, Marc Cookerea, Malo Gusto are playing more confident football. Levi Colwill and Wesley Fafana are a consistent partnership. Whenever they've both been fit, they've played in the Premier League and I think that really helps. Chelsea's defence is still not at a point where they're really shutting anyone down. That's something they need to work on. But you can see the chemistry building there and there is something of a unit emerging.
- [13:39]
Liam Toomey
Nobody can reasonably say to Maresca, you need to finish above Villa, for example. Villa, really good team. And then when you go above them, you've got Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester City, who are all going to finish top three. I made the same point about Liverpool recently, that you look at City and Arsenal and you can feel the weight of the title race sitting on them. It's just there all the time. And they know that if they don't win the title, nobody's going to going to speak positive their seasons. Whereas for Liverpool, they can have a stab at it. And again, they're not going to be criticized if they don't get there, but they can feel that they're kind of in the running and they might just. Just have a shot at it. And I think Chelsea can see that with fourth place as well. And it's good for Moreschi because he's new to the job, but he can almost go. He can almost go at it. Softly, softly. He can do what he needs to do. He can make the changes that he needs to do. He can. He can be patient with the partnerships he tries to build and the team he tries to build and it might well end up in fourth. But I think there's leeway for him this season if it doesn't, provided that they still look competitive.
- [14:33]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Yeah. Let's finish on this before we move on Cole Palmer and both of you, please jump in when you can. That beautiful past. Some have said pass of the season so far and Nicholas Jackson finished it off beautifully. But I think something Maresca said, which I thought was really interesting after the Newcastle game, was that this is the kind of player that people come to stadiums to watch. And I think at a time where Chelsea need a bit more good vibes, this is the kind of player that, you know what I want to see Cole Palmer play. Don't you think, Liam?
- [15:03]
Morgan Chase
Yeah, absolutely. And I think for long stretches of last season, when things weren't going so well under Pochettino, he was the reason to go. When fans weren't being offered many others, he was worth the price of admission. He was the reason that you'd sit your bum on the seat and engage in the game. Because in every single match he would do something and often it was a goal or an assist. But even if it wasn't, there were other things against Newcastle. The little touch around Fabian Cher, which completely destroys him, and he just receives a pass on the half turn from Levi Colwill. He senses that someone's coming and the touch is just sublime and sets him away. Chelsea suddenly are on the attack again. He's so direct. He's always looking forwards to try to hurt the opposition and create a final third opportunity really, really quickly. And he's very creative in how he does it. And I think probably the smartest thing Maresca's done, and let's not forget he knew Palmer well from having coached him for a season at City's development squad, was that he has to be central to Chelsea's attacking. Even when Pochettino started him on the right wing, it was something of a false starting position because he would always end up as their 10 in possession. Malo gusto would be bombing up the right flank. It looks slightly different with Maresca in that he's actually starting him nominally in the midfield three and he basically becomes a 10 or in that little half space when Chelsea have the ball. But every attack goes through him and that's vitally important to Chelsea's success because they're not an elite defensive team. They have to be an elite attacking team in order to generate the margins to pick up regular Premier League points. And he is the engine of that elite attack. He makes so many good decisions that he creates a platform not just for himself, but to get lots of goals. And Assists, but for his teammates to be elevated in their production as well.
- [17:03]
Liam Toomey
I wouldn't compare him to Wayne Rooney stylistically because anybody who's watched them knows that they were different players. But he reminds me a lot of Rooney in that every time you watch him, he impresses you. Every time you watch him, he does something that you like. And as far as his game goes, he's as an attacking player anyway, he's absolutely got it all. The thing that's probably gone a little bit underrated with Cole Palmer is his passing. You know, everybody is fixated on his goals, but that was our stats guys would say as a secondary assist, but it was a killer ball that from the really difficult, difficult position. And I get the feeling with Palmer that even though you've got Bellingham, you've got Foden, you've got others like that, that there's every chance that in four or five years time, perhaps sooner, he is England's best player. Cole Palmer, he looks like he's, he's got that talent and without going back over the, you know, the move from Manchester City and we, we all said, you know, at the time you weren't really arguing with the fee and you were almost wondering if, if Chelsea were slightly over overpaying. He's already worth considerably more than Chelsea paid for him. He's the most valuable member of the squad clearly. And I can totally see in his case why they've got him on a long contract and it doesn't mean that he'll see the duration of it because it is kind of ridiculously long by the standards of football. But he is 100% somebody who you need to commit to financially and you need to keep on board. And I think if Chelsea are going to become title contenders again and serious Champions League contenders again, then he will be at the center of it because there won't be many better players out there in Europe as the next decade goes on.
- [18:29]
Ayo Akimwaleri
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Accamulere.
- [18:36]
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- [20:10]
Morgan Chase
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- [20:13]
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- [21:11]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Well, we've just spoken about Cole Palmer and his continued influence at Chelsea, but Sunday also saw Rhys James play his part in Chelsea's win against Newcastle. You focus your match piece on him, Liam titling it Captain Leader left back look. Amazingly he's first full 90 minutes since the 18th of April 2023. What are your thoughts on him as Chelsea captain, Liam and is he a captain for the future as well?
- [21:40]
Morgan Chase
Well, first of all I didn't come up with that headline but I did like it. Newcastle was surprising in a lot of ways and an important moment in a lot of ways. I think for Reece James. One of course his starting position. When we saw the team sheet we expected it to be a continuation of what Maresca had done at Anfield with Gusteau on the left and James on the right. Instead, it was the other way round. And so you have this situation where not only has James been publicly challenged by his coach, I know maybe Maresca didn't mean it in that way, but that's certainly how it came across. Even though I think the conversations between the two of them privately about this happened some time ago. And Mareska said, you know, James has been moving in the right direction in terms of his leadership since. Having those headlines, having those, those quotes out there, I think did constitute a bit of a challenge when he's just returning to the team and trying to build up his fitness. So you add to that playing in a completely unfamiliar position on a different side of the pitch against, you know, a very capable, very motivated, very intense Premier League opposition in Newcastle.
- [22:47]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Phil Maresca said he expected more from him. Rhys James in terms of leadership. And it got us thinking, me in particular, you know, has even had time to become that leader yet. You know, we look at a player who's really struggled with injury and he's just finally finding some sort of bout of fitness, but he's still quite young as well. Is it too early to start asking for that, or do you think Maresca was quite smart in what he was saying publicly?
- [23:12]
Liam Toomey
It's a really fair question that in terms of age, he isn't old. I mean, I remember Ryan Sessignon coming to Leeds with Fulham when he was 16. So I'm wary of saying that 24 makes him young, but you would say that he's still to really hit his peak years as a footballer. Reece James, I think also his captaincy is in its infancy as well. We're only a year or so into it. And more to the point, as you referenced, he hasn't really played. So when it comes to having sort of tangible influence as a leader on the pitch, that's been difficult to the point of being impossible for him because he hasn't been there often enough. And I think we can deduce that what Maresca must have been getting at was that he wants James to be more of a presence, whether that's more vocal, more of a heartbeat, just more, you know, more influential behind the scenes and around the squad when they're training, you know, just in kind of day to day activity. He wants him to be there and he wants him to be seen and he wants him to be heard. Mareska is not naive. So it makes me think that the comments were fairly Calculated, because he'll have known that speaking like that about his captain and he wasn't polite about him, he wasn't offensive about him, but it was a challenge to him and he'll have known that there was going to be coverage on the back of that. I mean, I totally expected Liam's piece on Monday to be about James because of what had been said. And as I was sitting watching the Chelsea Newcastle game, I was thinking constantly watching James making his goal in clearances and that clearance over the crossbar as well, thinking to myself in the context of what had been said about him. And I think the best thing about Sunday was that it was a really good answer back from James to that. But it was done in absolutely the right way. It was done, you know, professionally and quietly. And I think he did make a point and I suspect Moreschild will be really happy with how he played. But you have to say as well that Chelsea's dressing room, and Chelsea as a club has not been an easy place to captain recently. It hasn't. It's in flux constantly with players and coaches. I actually think now they've got a chance to properly build up some of the familiarity and camaraderie that you really need in a dressing room that's going to function well, and therefore a dressing room that you can captain quite easily or captain effectively. But to this point, James hasn't really had that, and he hasn't had the right levels of fitness or availability either. Whether he's the answer for Chelsea long term is a really difficult question for me to answer, but I don't feel that at this stage you can really judge him negatively.
- [25:32]
Morgan Chase
In that sense, build is the key word because this is what Maresca said. He said, when you don't have a proper leader, he doesn't believe they do. In the current Chelsea squad, you have to build them. It's not necessarily inherent in every person's character to be a leader of men at 23, 24, you know, John Terry was. Was ready for it when Jose Mourinho gave him the armband at 23. I think Rhys James is on a different journey, but that doesn't mean he won't arrive at a similar point. Even if he's a different personality, he is quite reserved, he is quite introspective, but you see him on the pitch, he doesn't shirk from a challenge. He plays with real steel and determination. He can be an intimidating and an inspiring presence. But Chelsea haven't seen that enough since he became captain because he's barely had a chance to wear the armband on the pitch. But what Maresca is ultimately looking for, I think is not just for James to be more of a leader, but for Levi Colwill, who he called out and praised for his growing leadership. For Moises Caicedo, who's worn the armband a couple of times and is kind of growing in stature in midfield. Forenzo Fernandez as well, whose captaincy has been controversial but will continue to have a lot of prominence in this team and in this squad. For Cole Palmer, who leads in a very different way in the way that he demands the ball and demands to make things happen at all times. For Nicholas Jackson, who can occasionally be a bit impetuous, but is absolutely relentless in the way that he tries to help the team and is increasingly effective in high level Premier League games. These are all different ways for players to lead. And I think when you have such a young squad, the youngest squad in the Premier League league, it's going to take a group to grow together to, to actually take Chelsea to where they want to go.
- [27:26]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Yeah, when we think about leaders of the past, Phil, I mean let's look at Chelsea for instance. John Terry, Rhys, James are two very different types of characters. I even look at Arsenal sack up Odegaard, very different kind of characters to those all much older, you know, captains of the past. Do you think that that has evolved? What, what is asking for from leadership? You know, Liam just alluded to it. It takes various people perhaps at Chelsea now because it's such a young squad, like those sort of alpha dudes who are like, yeah, you lads, let's, let's rally around the team. The Drogba's of this world, the Terriers of this world. It's not quite the same these days.
- [27:59]
Liam Toomey
No, I suspect not. I mean, talking about Terry and Drogba, I suppose you'd add Lampard into the mix as well. Three of the most elite players Chelsea have ever had in probably the club's best era ever too. And I think beyond that, to go back to what I was saying previously, in periods when, when those three were at the club, you had a lot of continuity in the dressing room. You had a lot of high level performers who were there for a while stuck together and, and it meant that it was a dressing room where people understood each other, where the relationships were established. And I think that helps massively. And it's probably something that, that James doesn't have at Chelsea at the moment, but it might actually start to come now. I mean, part of me feels like it's a little bit of a blind spot that Chelsea haven't looked for somebody who can fill that role, saying, to listen to what Liam's saying, you know, about the process of young players developing and Chelsea kind of trying to make this peak a little bit further down the line, then I guess there is scope to build a captain from within the squad as it is at the moment and to let to nurture somebody like James to the point where he feels 100% comfortable in that role. You do still have people like van Dijk, for example, who seem quite old school in the captaincy style. I feel like more and more these days it comes down to personality rather than necessarily top thumping, you know, So I think you mentioned Odegaard, but you know, we've seen Saka at Arsenal captain them as well. Even though he's young, I can imagine Saka being a really engaging personality, being quite a leader of men in the way that he plays, in the way that he trains, in the way that he carries himself when he's, when he's away from the pitch. So I don't think there's a exact science to this and I don't think there's a one size fits all. And again, to go back to the previous point, I wonder if this is less about James and more about the way Chelsea have been and actually what he's going to find from here on is that this is suddenly a much easier club to captain.
- [29:50]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Liam, you've spoken about Levi Colwill as well and I'm just wondering for optics alone, especially with this new Chelsea, how important it is that that captaincy or the leaders are people that have come through the academy.
- [30:05]
Morgan Chase
I don't know if it's essential. I think it does help for the identity of this team and for the ease with which fans, particularly in the stadium, will identify with the team. I mean, when you look back to those great Chelsea teams, it wasn't just Terry that they identified with. Drogba was beloved. Cech was beloved. It doesn't have to be someone who's come through Cobham, but when you have characters like James, characters like Colwill, who. And characters like, you know, Conor Gallagher, who was here last season and very often captain. When fans feel like they've been invested in their journey from the very start and they see them grow into not just a squad player, a legitimate Premier League player, but then an actual consistent difference maker and leader within the group, I think it does enhance that Bond and I think it does help to a degree internally as well. Because when you have a player that identifies so strongly with the club, whether they've been brought in or not, if they feel that connection so strongly, I think it does put them in a stronger position to then set the standards, to maintain the culture in the dressing room, to hold teammates accountable over a long period of time. And I do think, following on from what Phil said, captaincy's probably changed over the years. The average personality of a Premier League player has changed from generation to generation. But some qualities are relatively timeless, and those are the qualities that do mark out captain. And I do think, in this case, I do think James has quite a lot of the qualities that can make him suitable. And Colwill does too.
- [31:43]
Liam Toomey
Do you think that James minded Maresca speaking like that? I mean, have you got any sense of whether it was an issue for him to be. Wasn't called out really, but, you know, to. To kind of have that put on his.
- [31:52]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Spoken about publicly?
- [31:54]
Liam Toomey
Yeah. What did he think?
- [31:55]
Morgan Chase
I genuinely don't know because more than most players, I think Reece James has always been someone to keep his counsel. He's a very quiet guy. I wouldn't have expected any kind of public reaction from him, but I think you could see from the way he played, he played like he felt he had a point to prove. And I think he probably felt like without going too deep into amateur psychology here, he probably felt like he had a point to prove to his teammates as well. Because as. As good as he's been for Chelsea when he's played for them, and he. He was at the point where he was a star for Chelsea when the injuries really began to derail him. That was a long time ago, and most of the squad has changed since then. And you can imagine that with the best will in the world, there would have been some other players in that dressing room looking at him going, we need you on the pitch. Like, you know, are we gonna. Are we gonna be able to count on you? As much as players don't blame other players for injuries, you know, it's a natural human thing. I think when you're dealing with the weekly pressure of results.
- [32:58]
Liam Toomey
Yeah, I think that's true of a crowd as well. Not everybody and not the majority, but there are always people who, when good players, talented players, even top players start to get injured and start to be missing from the team, becomes a source of frustration. And it. It kind of manifests itself in frustration towards that player and that need for them to demonstrate again why it is that they're in the squad at the club in the team and I thought he did that perfectly on Sunday.
- [33:21]
Morgan Chase
Yeah, I think it was a really good reaction in every way. And he's, I think the crowd are naturally inclined to like him. So if he gives any encouragement in terms of his performances and his week to week availability, they will be behind him.
- [33:48]
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- [34:44]
Ayo Akimwaleri
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akimolera. What do you think? Maresca's public handling of this whole Reece James situation tells us about how he likes to lead as a coach. You know, you've spoken about it before. This is someone that Chelsea really wanted as the manager of this club. And he seems, especially in press conferences, anywhere from where I'm sitting, someone who kind of carries himself and doesn't seem to seem shy or feel like weathered by the situation as yet anyway.
- [35:16]
Morgan Chase
Yeah, he's been very good consistently at projecting a confidence and an authority publicly. And you get that sense internally as well in terms of the way the players react to him, that he does seem to have an aura. And it's not necessarily easy to do that when you might have won the league last year. But it was the championship and it was Leicester, it wasn't Chelsea. It wasn't the scrutiny and the expectation and the level of talent that you're dealing with now. And I think, you know, the James case specifically, I think it, it highlights that he's prepared to be publicly, quite honest publicly, not afraid to challenge players in a way that I think is quite different from Mauricio Pochettino, who was very much more of the arm around the shoulder type of management style. And you know, I think in lots of ways that was positive for where that Chelsea group was. But it also yielded maybe a lack of structure and authority at times, most notably with the constant arguments over who got to took penalties. You know, you couldn't really imagine that happening with this group now under Maresca. He's been very, very clear where everything stands and you get the impression that every player knows where they stand. He's been very honest, very direct with them in private as well as in public. And I think what the club will appreciate is he's also been a good company man. You know, he's owned every decision, even when the decision in question has been dropping Raheem Sterling, taking his squad number off him, alienating Ben Chilwell for a while. Decisions which certainly have also a financial aspect in terms of their contracts and the way the club view them. He's owned all of those decisions and he's not been afraid to be the, the public face. Yes, give me the questions, I'll answer them. And I think the club appreciate that. And, and he certainly, I think, carries himself like someone who has a five year contract. Not every coach does because I think they know the realities of the industry and you're, you're only a bad run of games away from pressure. But he, he carries himself like someone who feels he's a secure part of this project and that the club are building around him and it's, it's helping, I think, quieten some of the noise that's been around Chelsea over the last two years.
- [37:34]
Liam Toomey
He's had some great apprenticeships as well. I mean, he was at West Ham, he was with Guardiola at City. So it's not as if the Premier League was a brand new environment for him. And I think a year at Leicester in the championship was almost perfect in the sense that he was thrown a big club at that level and a very talented squad. And the directive was basically get us out of this league. And the expectation around the club was, you, you, you should get us out of this league. Which he did. And he's moved on to a club who again would demand plenty of him. I think as time goes on will demand more and more, but with an increased level of talent in that squad to give him a better chance of, of doing that. So it's almost been a, a good career path for him, which has set him up nicely for, for the job that he's in now. When he got the job at Leicester, I spoke to Robert Snodgrass, who I'd got to know at Leeds and had worked with Mareska at West Ham, and He was really effusive about him and said, he's. He's massively intelligent. He's a great communicator as a coach. He used to speak to us lots, he used to push us lots and try to make us think more about the game, develop about the game. Snodgrass sort of said as a result of working with him, I thought more about football, you know, thought about it properly as opposed to just played it more than I ever had in the past. And he said to me, because he knew he was going into Leicester, Maresque, he said, mareski will win the title there in the championship and he will go on to a pretty big job after that. And that's exactly what's happened. So I think people in the game can see what Moresque is and what he can do. And I do think the start to the season has been a really good public demonstration of that.
- [39:03]
Ayo Akimwaleri
Yeah. Liam, an opportunity to make it into the quarterfinals of the Carabao cup this week for Chelsea. Do this new regime at Chelsea, do these owners need a trophy?
- [39:17]
Morgan Chase
Well, I think it's not the only way that they're measuring the progress of this project, but ultimately their aim is to take Chelsea to the top. That is the bar that they're trying to clear to not just match, but maybe even exceed the standards of the Abramovich era, or at least the kind of last half of it when Chelsea were no longer perennial title contenders and putting them in a position where they are trying to win the Premier League, they're trying to win the Champions League. I mean, they're in the Champions League. That would be a positive step. And competing for these major trophies goes along with that. And the Carabao Cup's a difficult one because I think all the big clubs are still in it. Newcastle is a challenging game in a challenging week because they've then got the presumed new coach bounce at Manchester United, Old Trafford to follow immediately. So the way Maresca navigates that with his selection will be fascinating. He's got no shortage of options. Basically. Been playing a completely different 11 for cup games so far this season. But, yeah, I think he. I think he will be judged in the long term on trophies. I think this season, top four is much more important. Chelsea want to be and need to be back in the Champions League as soon as possible. And while Maresca has repeatedly said publicly, you know, no one said to me, you have to get into the top four, there is a widespread belief at the club that there is a top four level of talent in this squad and I think the way the Premier League is shaping up with United slow start, spurs and Newcastle struggling a bit, Aston Villa adapting to balancing a Champions League campaign with the Premier League. The window is open for Chelsea to get that fourth place and to really take a step forward. And that will be, I think, Maresca's number one priority for now.
- [41:08]
Ayo Akimwaleri
All right, gents, let's leave it there. Liam, Phil, thank you so much for your time. We'll be back tomorrow. We'll catch you then.
- [41:15]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
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- [42:33]
Morgan Chase
ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.
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Chase
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Phil Hay
Hey folks, it's Mark Marin from WTF. It's been more than 15 years now and I'm still talking to all kinds of people in my garage every week. Sometimes it's Bill Burr, sometimes it's Ariana Grande. She just looks at me because she's always going like, dad, it's not that big a deal. Yeah, I go, sorry, I. I lost my temper. I go, I still love you. You know, Daddy has issues.
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Morgan Chase
Well, I don't.
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Phil Hay
I think about it all the time.
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network
How are we here already?
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Phil Hay
Listen to WTF with Marc Maron twice a week on your favorite podcast app. Or get more WTF with a WTF plus subscription. Just go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF.
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Chase
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Morgan Chase
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