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- [00:02]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by Threads. The best part of football isn't just the matches. It's the conversation. The hot takes, the debates, the back and forth that goes on before kickoff, during the match and after the final whistle's been blown. And this summer, that's all happening on Threads. We'll be discussing all the biggest news and stories directly on Threads every single day this tournament. On each episode of the Athletic fc, we be getting stuck into the biggest talking points and discussing all of your comments and opinions. For your chance to be featured in the next episode, head over to Threads, follow our account heathletic and join the conversation. Football on Threads. Get into it
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- [01:20]
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- [02:16]
Emma Payton
hello and welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Emma Payton. England are off to a flyer. A 42 win over Croatia and two goals for Harry Kane. But it wasn't quite so good for Cristiano Ronaldo. And with all 48 teams having played well, who has impressed so far? Here in the studio today, we have the Athletics Liam Toomey and Liam Tharm. All the Liams. How are we doing? I feel like we might need nicknames today because Liam and Liam T. It's not going to cut it, is it?
- [02:47]
Liam Toomey
Yeah, this is the problem. Liam T Doesn't even work. We noticed this shortly after you joined.
- [02:52]
Liam Tharme
Yeah. I've received emails that were for. For Liam and I'm sure he's received some for me, so it's a long time.
- [02:57]
Emma Payton
What are we doing today?
- [02:59]
Liam Toomey
I think so you could go surnames. Yeah. Or squad numbers, but I don't think that works.
- [03:03]
Emma Payton
I'm not sure I'll remember that either, so. Right, guys, only one place to start. England finally got their campaign underway with a 42 win over Croatia. What an entertaining game. Game of the tournament so far.
- [03:16]
Liam Toomey
I think so, yeah. I think it's quite strange to be talking about England as the entertainers of the World cup, particularly after the Southgate era, which, as successful as it was, I don't think you could accuse it of consistently setting pulses racing. But England were really good and. And also deficient in some ways, which I think made the game more interesting. But they didn't have a lot of control in the first half, had more in the second, but they had this explosive scoring power. And we saw Harry Kane really turn up. We saw Jude Bellingham have a quiet first half, but then produce maybe the moment of the game right at the start of the second. And you saw the quality that they have off their bench as well with Marcus Rashford. So I thought it was a good statement because Croatia also showed enough to show that they're a good team.
- [03:59]
Liam Tharme
Yeah, they've been a great tournament team as well recently. Croatia. It's a real banana skin, I think, of a first game in a tournament where Spain have tripped up early on, Netherlands have tripped up early on. It's been difficult, actually, for some of those top teams. Even France, kind of similar to England, had a good result and kind of a bit of a sketchy performance along the way. And four very different goals. I think you always want your striker to get off the mark early. Came, you know, with two goals inside the first half and then kind of two very different goals again later on in the game. So having those different threats, I think
- [04:25]
Emma Payton
is really important, not just us being biased, because. This is an excerpt from Jacob Whitehead's Day Seven recap. And this is from Bild, the German tabloid, who said that was the best game of the World Cup. Thank you for these 19 minutes. What a spectacle. What a festival. Not going to Argue with that. No one could say it wasn't exciting, could they? Before we chat more about England, let's check in with our England correspondent, Jack Pittbrook.
- [04:48]
Jack Pittbrook
I'm here outside the Dallas Stadium where England just got their World cup campaign underway with I think a pretty impressive 42 win over Croatia. It was an interesting game, like England were pretty poor in the first half, much, much better in the second half after Tuchel told them that it doesn't really matter if you lose, it's all about playing our way. And England came out and they did play the Thomas Tuchel way. They were intense, they were aggressive, they won the ball back quickly. They played with that kind of high intensity style that Tuchel's been talking about ever since he took over. The big question really is, can they do this in their next few games? Next up it's Ghana in Boston and then it's Panama in New Jersey. They won't have the benefit of the air conditioned stadium here. And I just wonder whether they will be able to play with the same running, the same pressing, the same high intensity that they showed in this game. Because if they can't, then I just wonder if some of the defensive issues we saw particularly in the first half here could get shown up. Don't think any of England's back four looked particularly comfortable. I think the decision to not play Mark Gahey, I'm not sure if that worked. You know, John Stones was very much at fault for the first goal. I know that he's a fantastic player who brings in a lot in the build up, but I wasn't that convinced with England defensively. Even O'Reilly at left back, even Rhys James at right back wasn't really his best. So I just wonder if a quicker opposition with a bit more speed in their attack might be able to exploit that a bit more. But overall I think it was a very good way for England to start their group. You know, this is the hardest group game. They started with the three points and a bit of a vindication for Tuchel's ideas and everything Tuchel has said. And I think that probably counts them in good stead going into the next game.
- [06:21]
Emma Payton
Well, we'll unpick everything that Jack talked about there, but I feel like he was keen to point out the difference between the first half and the second half. Touched on Thomas Tuchel's halftime team talk as well. Tharm, what was the big difference for you? Because England, it felt like they were energised in that second half and had a real intensity.
- [06:41]
Liam Tharme
Yeah, I Think we saw bits of that intensity in the first half. Kind of the counter press was quite good. They're actually really good. I think when they lost the ball, kind of making those quick regains. The problem was too many of those turnovers and I think when they then got into pressing situations, they got a bit stuck. Kane was quite deep a lot of the time. We had both Gordon and Madwaque quite high, marking the center backs, but no one really putting pressure on the goalkeeper. And they came out and I think Kane said it after the game as well, that they kind of went full throttle, full gas. Were really kind of pushing up for some turnovers which they could have scored from, I think at 3:2. But it's something that Anthony Barry spoke about at halftime. He was speaking to ITV and was probably quite critical of the performance. He spoke about nervous energy kind of in the build up, build up being there, playing out from the back, not kind of before the game and that kind of. They were playing short when they should go long and vice versa. They were going long when they should go short. They fell back into these kind of bad, bad habits and were kind of a bit too deep. They really did step it up. They basically scored not direct from kickoff, but from kind of the regen they got after Croatia kicked off 23 pass move, which was really tidy in the end, was a lot of kind of working the ball left and right up and down. That pass in behind early on wasn't on. They waited and waited for their moment there. And then Anderson obviously hits it in behind and finds Bellingham a pass. They've been looking for a lot in the first half and kept kind of turning it over. Bellingham, I think, was trying to find Rhys James with a similar run earlier on. So the ideas were there in the first half. It was more about executing, I think, in the right way.
- [07:59]
Emma Payton
And Toomey, you already talked about Bellingham's goal. Just how crucial was that goal, the timing of it, as well as a few minutes into the second half just felt like maybe it set the tone for that second 45.
- [08:09]
Liam Toomey
Yeah, it was massive because I think Anthony Barry's halftime comments you mentioned there, they were quite candid, surprisingly so from a tactical point of view, I thought. And it created the impression that England really needed to get elements of that first half out of their system. And I think what that Bellingham goal did, not just the manner in which he converted it, which I thought was absolutely brilliant, but the move as a whole, it was a real vindication at the entire game. Plan and, and I think from there you saw them growing confidence, you saw them secure the ball much better, control the game much better. Just as I think Croatia's energy levels maybe started to wane and the gap started to grow. And then of course, they took them apart clinically, really in transition for the fourth goal. So I thought the second half performance was very impressive. It felt to me quite a European style game. I think the closed stadium really helped with that in terms of the intensity that both teams brought. But England, as Kane said afterwards, had too much for Croatia to live with.
- [09:10]
Emma Payton
We'll get onto Kane, but just to stick with Jude Bellium for a minute, did last night settle that number 10 debate? Because there was so much chat, so much narrative going into this first game. Who should start? Should it be him? Should it be Morgan Rogers?
- [09:20]
Liam Tharme
Yeah, Tuchel seems to really like Morgan Rodgers and I think they're. They're slightly different profiles. If you want someone that's kind of going to receive the ball back to goal, really strong, really physical, I think Bellingham can do that. Rodgers is probably one of the best in the world at doing that. Likewise, the way Bellingham was breaking into the space, making those runs in behind, kind of even on transition, he was really trying to get the ball and drive out the defense at times. He should have passed when he kind of kept possession. So there's different options there. I think it's a good problem to have. It's one you probably want to have as a coach. But I don't know if we're going to see kind of just Bellingham play the whole tournament there as the starter or Rodgers come in and completely displace him. I think Tuchel will use both kind of equally.
- [09:54]
Emma Payton
Let's talk about Harry Kane then. To me, because of course he was dropping deep again, it felt like he was everywhere. And maybe that was epitomised by the fact that he blocked that shot in stoppage time as well. But there was so much movement around him. Does it almost feel he was as effective as he is in that role when he's at Bayern Munich?
- [10:11]
Liam Toomey
Yeah, and I think that was the theory of the squad that Tuchel picked. I think that's why it made sense from the outset. You comp with two years ago where you had Phil Foden playing on the left wing, trying to restrict his number 10 instincts. Fullbacks, not really going forward. There was no one running beyond Kane, no one for him to aim for. So he was doing a lot of the same things, but it looked completely different because England were making the pitch small. That isn't happening under Tuchel because even though Anthony Gordon had quite a quiet game, his presence there and his tendencies create space and add value to what Kane's doing. And then you had Madwaque on the right, who is an imperfect player, but he's consistently aggressive and direct, and so he offers Kane another valuable outlet. And you saw early in the second half, Bellingham's willingness to run beyond him as well, which Morgan Rodgers will give when he plays. So I just think he's surrounded by players that do the things that he wants to do and allow him to act as the 10 as well as the 9, depending on the circumstances of the game.
- [11:14]
Emma Payton
Is this now Tharme Tuchel's template for England moving forward? Jack posing the question there, saying, can they replicate it? Can they do it again?
- [11:21]
Liam Tharme
Well, I think they won't necessarily need to replicate it in the next two games. They're going to play Ghana and Panama, who played out quite a stale game for most of the match before a late Ghana winner. So it's going to be, I think, maybe more like a Southgate kind of performance of kind of grinding a team down, having to break them down. But that's the kind of display you'd want to see in a knockout round game. And Croatia are a knockout round opponent. England have played them in a World cup knockout round, obviously, eight years ago. So it's what he wants. He spoke, I think it was last March about kind of wanting that intensity, basically wanting to replicate the Premier League with this England team and kind of, you know, bring that style that they're playing at their clubs week in, week out, which makes perfect sense, rather than trying to kind of reinvent the wheel when they get to the national team. So, yeah, I think we saw really, really good signs of that. And also to, I think do it late in the game counts for a lot. Not just doing it for the first 60 minutes while players are fresh, but sustaining it. And I think England were already convincing in the end, which is probably the best compliment you can get in addition to the win.
- [12:10]
Emma Payton
Yeah, like that. Toomey. Talk to me about Rhys James, who obviously started at right back, moved into midfield when. When Declan Rice went off. What did you make of his performance?
- [12:18]
Liam Toomey
Probably not his best, but I think we saw enough of the qualities that persuaded Tuchel to. To not only pick him, but really envision him as the starting right back for this team because he does have that ability. As the circumstances of the game change, as the requirements of the squad dictate to move into midfield and I think actually when he started playing that role for Chelsea, he looked quite awkward there, but he's, he's really adapted to it. He's got much more of a 360 view of the game when he's in the middle of the pitch now and he's much more reliable receiving the ball. I think we can see a little bit more of him as an attacking force. There were times when I was a little bit worried for his hamstrings because he went on some pretty long bursting runs, which Chelsea I think have tried to limit, honestly in the way that they've used him. So that's maybe something to watch as we go through the tournament, but we know he's got that quality in the final third as well, so that's potentially another outlet, shall we say, that England haven't really scratched the surface of yet.
- [13:17]
Emma Payton
He's got Tuchel's trust, hasn't he?
- [13:18]
Liam Tharme
Yeah, I think so. Some good stats on commentary last night about this being the most experienced England team ever. I think a World cup in terms of previous World cup experiences, and quite a lot of these players have won trophies in recent years as well. So I think that's, that's really, really valuable.
- [13:33]
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- [16:11]
Emma Payton
Well, we can't move on from England without talking about the center of defense because a couple of goals concede in the first half. It felt like they were loose at the back and if this is something to clean up for moving forward for the rest of the tournament, this is maybe the issue at the moment. It felt like they were open even in the opening moments there was a little bit of worry.
- [16:28]
Liam Toomey
Yeah, and I think it was clear coming into the competition that John Stones was probably Tuchel's single biggest call in terms of the level of faith that he's got in him versus how little he's played in the last year or so at Manchester City. He really values what he can bring to England in possession, but England weren't at their best in possession in the first half, so the focus was really on the defensive shortcomings and I think Stones maybe looked a little bit rusty, a little bit limited in moments, but also I don't know how seamless the chemistry is between him and ESRI Konsa yet. I think Konsa is a very solid centre back in his own right. But Mark Gay could certainly count himself very unfortunate not to start that game after the season he's had and how well he adapted to playing for Manchester City. You know, he's big enough for Games
- [17:13]
Emma Payton
like this or Gay return for the Ghana game.
- [17:16]
Liam Tharme
Yeah, I think we'll see some rotation partly to keep players fresh. And you don't just want to have the same team. You're going to have to use your squad. We've seen that from, you know, I mean, all teams, but especially the tournament winners. You go back to Argentina, France in years gone past, you need to use those options and kind of bleed them all in.
- [17:29]
Emma Payton
How good is it to see the players that did come on make an impact as well?
- [17:32]
Liam Toomey
Yeah, I think it was because I think it again justifies the hierarchy of roles that Tuchel has established in this squad. He wanted players who were not going to be sitting on the bench thinking, I should be out there starting. I mean, some players all believe that to a degree, but if you have players that buy into the role that they've been called up to play, as Rashford clearly has, then they're in the right mindset to come on and affect the game. And, you know, Bukayo Saka won't be a substitute, I'm sure, for the whole tournament, but he came on and created a moment and Rashford did exactly what he was supposed to do, which was hold the width, become the open man and then finish clinically. It's really encouraging that England have a working hierarchy of roles that can stand him in good stead, not just in the group stage, but as we get into the knockout rounds.
- [18:21]
Emma Payton
What rating would we give England's opener then? Because I feel like you almost don't want the perfect start. You want a few things that you can tweak and make adjustments to moving forward.
- [18:29]
Liam Tharme
We're going out of 10.
- [18:31]
Emma Payton
Let's do that.
- [18:32]
Liam Tharme
Probably an 8. I think the first half counts a couple points against them, but they recovered it really well and obviously winning is this kind of level the most important.
- [18:39]
Emma Payton
What do you reckon? To me?
- [18:41]
Liam Toomey
Yeah, well, can I give a first half and a second half ratings? I'd probably give us maybe a 6 for the first half and an 8 for the second half. So a 7 overall, I think. I think they can click into a higher gear than this. But there was plenty of encouragement and I think plenty of theory of the case for how Tuchel wants this team
- [19:01]
Emma Payton
to play well elsewhere. On day seven, Luis Diaz scored and assisted in a 31 win for Colombia against Uzbekistan. Ghana in the same group, of course, as England needed a stoppage time winner to see off Panama 1 nil. But the shock of the day saw Dr. Congo get a 1 all draw with Portugal. Before we talk about that. Nick Miller was in Houston. Let's hear from him now.
- [19:24]
Nick Miller
It's not quite the level of shock that Cape Verde drawing with Spain was, but it's not too far away. Congo playing their first World cup since 1974. Portugal theoretically one of the favorites, for better or worse. A lot of the debate and the discussion after this game and during it, to be fair, was about Cristiano Ronaldo, who for probably about 70 minutes, didn't do a thing. It's not as even if he did things badly, he just didn't do anything at all. Then he missed a couple of chances, very similar chances, but not complete sitters around the 70 minute mark. Then after that, he did nothing again, which it's difficult to say that it's his fault, any of this. It really should be Roberto Martinez who is still picking him for reasons that aren't entirely clear, although he did say after the game that it wouldn't make sense to drop someone who's one of the greatest goalscorners in football history when they needed a goal. I think the key word there is history. A lot of the debate possibly should be about Conga, who defended brilliantly. Johan Whitter, scored their equalizer and got a fantastic point for them.
- [20:31]
Emma Payton
Yep, cannot argue with that either. Nick's column over on the Athletic is titled, Cristiano Ronaldo looks a sad shell of the great footballer he once was. It's a really good read, but I like what he was saying there about how Ronaldo didn't really do too much wrong. He just didn't really do anything. Is that how you saw it?
- [20:47]
Jacob Whitehead
Yeah.
- [20:48]
Liam Toomey
I mean, I think throughout his prime, we became very accustomed to seeing Cristiano Ronaldo bend games to his will increasingly. I mean, the last couple of international tournaments for Portugal, it's felt like games happen around him and the team is playing around him, and he's almost a spectator with the best view in the house, but doesn't get the ball that much, and when he does, can't really do much with it physically. You know, he can play as a nine. He clearly. He keeps himself in great shape. He can head in across, you know, he can attack, attack spaces in the box. But does he play like a nine? Does he do the things that a team like Portugal need their number nine to do? I think those are. Those are really pertinent questions, and they become even more pertinent with every tournament game that's like this. I just wonder if they're going to get back to a point where Martinez starts to look at Gonzalo Ramos and thinks for, you know, for all his limitations, he's not necessarily the perfect solution. He is a natural nine that would maybe create some more balance in this team.
- [21:50]
Emma Payton
It felt like all the players were just trying to find him, constantly trying to find the ball to him.
- [21:55]
Liam Tharme
Which works when he scores, right? And it obviously really doesn't work when he doesn't score. And you look at the options then that they leave on the bench because of that. Rafael came, came on late on Joao Felix, an unused subs. So there's quality there, there's options there. I think we were probably having the same criticisms of Roberto Martinez back as Belgium coach as well. When you say how do you kind of balance this talent? And I think it's even more suck when you look at how the other major European nations have started, probably Argentina as well, that have also built teams around their kind of talisman, their. Their high scoring player, which I think to an extent you do have to do, because goals are really precious. You need players that are reliable, that have scored them. But when Ronaldo hasn't turned up and other players have sure only one game in, I think it does make it look even worse for them.
- [22:34]
Emma Payton
What does Martinez do then?
- [22:35]
Liam Tharme
He's just, I think, a little bit more kind of pragmatic than some of the others. A little bit more kind of reserved in how they play. This is kind of the same, I think, a bit with Belgium where you look at the talent. They had kind of real good dribblers, real good creative players. And they just seem. Perhaps the criticism you give of England under Gareth Southgate as well, that could be a bit more shackled, probably a little bit more focused on how do we not concede, how do we not lose games rather than going out and trying to blow teams away and win by big scores.
- [22:59]
Emma Payton
And Toomey, obviously it didn't happen for Ronaldo last night. Is it time to drop him?
- [23:04]
Liam Toomey
I mean, you've almost nailed your colours to this mast coming into the tournament now. So I don't know whether it's a sunk cost or you cut your losses. It's just tough because the point that thar makes is that building around the star player is what you have to do to a degree in international football. But it's very different Argentina building around Lionel Messi because the type of player that he's become in his late career, he's the rising tide that lifts all boats. Certainly in the final third, the team is geared to give him the ball and then run off him In a slightly more extreme way to maybe Kane with England, where you're using them as a creative engine, whereas with Portugal, you've just got this statue of a legend up front and everyone kind of maneuvering around him. You've got one of the best midfields in the tournament, creation, control, some very good wingers, but it's all in service of a player who's maybe too limited to actually capitalize on it.
- [24:02]
Emma Payton
Does it feel like as well? Obviously we were here 24 hours ago talking about the exploits of Messi Mbappe Haaland. We're here talking about Kane today. But those performances almost emphasize Ronaldo's drop off even more.
- [24:15]
Liam Toomey
Yeah, and it's fair to note that he's comfortably the oldest of all of those guys, so there's the. It's understandable that he wouldn't be at that level, but it just underlines even more so just how far away he is from that top tier now.
- [24:28]
Emma Payton
Hard not to compare, isn't it? What a race for the golden boot we have shaping up. By the way, this is after just one round of games. Eight players have two or more goals. Messi, of course, leading the way on three. We've got the likes of Kane, Mbappe Haaland, Havertz, all on two, as are Baligan, Elijah Just and Yassin Iari as well. So shaping up nicely, isn't it?
- [24:49]
Liam Tharme
I think Baligan's been really good for the US as well. I mean, there's probably an alternative universe where he's in that England squad or starting for England, and a player that was really good at age group levels as well, really, really promising. And he's really, I think, solved a lot of problems for the USMNT in that respect in terms of having a clinical number nine, the second goal, I think he scored as well. That almost in a mold of cane of that kind of striker that can score so many different kinds of goals. So I think obviously don't expect him to be the guy that wins it, but I think kind of how many goals he continues to get is going to be the real difference maker for the US going forward.
- [25:21]
Liam Toomey
My. My prediction is that by the end of this tournament, the, the all time record for World cup goals will be at least 20.
- [25:28]
Emma Payton
Wow.
- [25:29]
Liam Toomey
So that would require Messi to get four more, Mbappe to get a few more. But there are more games in this tournament for some of these players if they go the distance.
- [25:37]
Emma Payton
Yeah. Okay, we'll roll the tapes on that and come back to it. So now that we've Seen everyone play once in this World Cup. Then I've got a few quick questions for you. First of all, to me, which team has been most impressive so far?
- [25:50]
Liam Toomey
I'm still inclined to say France, because I don't think Senegal quite got enough credit for how strong they. They were in that game. And also generally, yes, France were a little bit sort of milquetoast in the first half, but when they really clicked into gear, I think they showed a higher level than anyone else has in this tournament so far in. In the way that they just blew Senegal away. So, yeah, yeah, I like that.
- [26:11]
Liam Tharme
I'd probably agree, but I'd put Argentina very, very close to that as well. I think a similarly convincing performance you want your superstar to deliver, but the way the whole team functions around Messi as well.
- [26:19]
Jack Pittbrook
The.
- [26:19]
Liam Tharme
The runners off the ball that Liam spoke about, the defensive block as well, really, really solid and obviously they conceded a. A goal in inverted commas that was offside early on. That looked really, really strong and that. That will carry them quite far, I think.
- [26:31]
Emma Payton
Which team has been the biggest surprise this could be for good or for bad? Tharm.
- [26:36]
Liam Tharme
Well, I was quite disappointed by the Netherlands in their draw against Japan. I thought they were just really quite timid in terms of some of their approach play. A few kind of square pegs in round holes as well. Having Van De Ven out wide as left back, I know he's played that role before at a kind of national level, but it meant Cody Gakpo looked really disjointed and just kind of on his own on the left. Having Somerville was a really good left winger at West Ham this season. Playing on the right didn't seem to. I know we scored, but didn't seem to quite work kind of as a. As a tactical solution. So I thought they were just a bit of a shame that there's so much talent in that team that, you know, and in the need of a good tournament for them. I think it's been a while since they've had a really good tournament against a good Japan team. It should be said it's a very good Japan team, but I thought that was a game they should have won and obviously were twice pegged back and dropped points.
- [27:16]
Emma Payton
I'm glad you said that. I was going to say you've got to give props to Japan, of course.
- [27:19]
Nick Miller
Yes.
- [27:19]
Liam Tharme
Big Japan fan.
- [27:20]
Emma Payton
Toomey.
- [27:21]
Liam Toomey
I'd say Ivory coast because I, along with seemingly everyone else in the world, picked Ecuador as dark horses primarily because of their defense. And I know Ivory Coast Kind of rode their luck at times in that game. But they look really, really solid from back to front and they have a player in Jandia Mandy who can carry a threat against any team in the tournament. I thought what he did against what I still think is one of the most talented defences in the competition was really, really impressive. And they've got a great chance of getting out the group stage in quite a favourable seeding now and seeing what they can do in the knockouts.
- [27:56]
Emma Payton
What has been everyone's favourite moment of
- [27:58]
Liam Tharme
the tournament so far, I enjoyed Monday having a bit of an upset with Spain dropping points, goal restore against Cape Verde. I always think, I mean that is an upset.
- [28:07]
Emma Payton
World Cup's about story.
- [28:08]
Liam Tharme
Yeah, it is. And I think you always want teams. I know it's a thing of okay, three teams are going to go through. It doesn't really jeopardise Spain's chances of getting through to the knockout rounds, but that's probably going to completely change if it means they finish second. Going to completely change what their route to the final look like. Might put them on a completely different side of the draw. So I think that shouldn't be underestimated as well. That you want to finish, like we said, kind of in the Champions League this season as well. In the league face of that, you want to be kind of clear and out the way of all. Kind of the madness that's going to come through.
- [28:35]
Liam Toomey
For me, I think it was the day of Superstars when you had Mbappe Elise and then Haaland and then Messi. I just thought that was a really. That was a stretch that really lit up the World cup and really got things moving.
- [28:47]
Emma Payton
Yeah. And we were lucky enough to be in here yesterday morning talking about it, so. And just last one goal of the tournament so far, been some good goals.
- [28:56]
Liam Toomey
It may not be the most spectacular to the eye, but I France's opener, I thought against Senegal, Elise's pass is pass of the tournament for me so far and it was actually a really impressive finish from Mbappe on, on the move, moving at a speed that only he can. So I just thought that that goal, not just for the quality but for what it showed about what that connection can do in this tournament.
- [29:19]
Liam Tharme
I really enjoyed Yassin Iari's brace as well. It's been a good kind of chipping in with a few goals at Brighton this season, a good couple strikes from distance. So here's hoping you can add to that as well.
- [29:27]
Emma Payton
If you do want more on the first week of the tournament, check out Michael Cox's piece, which is entitled the World cup so far surprisingly excellent. That is of course over on the Athletic
- [29:41]
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Nick Miller
For that.
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- [33:01]
Emma Payton
Okay, time now for our do you know your daily Trivia on day 8? The question today is do you know who Captained Argentina at France 98 Wearing the number 8 shirt?
- [33:17]
Liam Toomey
The number 8 shirt.
- [33:18]
Liam Tharme
My excuse here is I wasn't even
- [33:20]
Emma Payton
born, but think memories of this tournament, I suppose.
- [33:24]
Liam Toomey
Yeah, I do have them. I do have memories of this tournament.
- [33:27]
Emma Payton
Things that stood out.
- [33:28]
Liam Toomey
Very faded number eight shirt. I'm thinking midfield.
- [33:31]
Liam Tharme
Yeah.
- [33:31]
Liam Toomey
Central midfielder.
- [33:33]
Emma Payton
Let's just say a manager in La Liga at the moment couldn't be more La Liga.
- [33:38]
Liam Tharme
I was thinking Simeone.
- [33:39]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [33:40]
Liam Toomey
Of course, of course.
- [33:42]
Paige Desorbo
The.
- [33:42]
Liam Tharme
Of course.
- [33:43]
Emma Payton
That's what I was saying. Memories. Beckham, the Rock.
- [33:45]
Liam Toomey
Beckham's Croc tonight.
- [33:46]
Emma Payton
Yes. Well, as well as reporting on all the action at the World cup, our team of reporters have also been breaking some incredible off field stories. On Wednesday, Jacob Whitehead exclusively revealed Ivory Coast Elahi was arrested on suspicion of fixing offenses less than two weeks before the tournament. Well, Jacob is with us now. Jacob, bring us up to speed on this story.
- [34:09]
Jacob Whitehead
So this all surrounds Elia Wahi, who's the starting striker for Ivory coast at this World Cup. He helped him to a one nil victory over Ecuador a few days ago and he actually spent the second half of last season on loan at Nice for Meintracht Frankfurt. He's had a fairly sort of winding career in the French leagues before that, but he's still only 23. The story which we've reported is that just two weeks before the World cup started, Wahi was arrested by French anti corruption police. The allegations surround alleged spot fixing in a game which Wahi played in against Metz on May 17, in which he's accused of deliberately getting a yellow card in the 34th minute. After that, 12 days later, Nice had a relegation playoff against St Etienne. Wahi had been suspended for the first leg a few days before, but in the second leg he actually was man of the match. He scored two goals. But straight afterwards he was arrested then by French police on suspicion of these fixing charges. Now, it should be stressed that Wahi, while he's been arrested in connection with this and the investigators, they've been told by the Marseille public Prosecutor's office, are looking at allegations of organised fraud, organised sports corruption and handling of proceeds of crime. Wahi has not been charged and he's been released from custody after a few days, which means that Wahee has been allowed to travel to the United States for this World Cup.
- [35:26]
Emma Payton
For those that might not know, explain a little bit more about what spot fixing, especially in football, actually is.
- [35:33]
Jacob Whitehead
So spot fixing is really a form of match fixing. Match fixing is the process of, or as we generally know it, match fixing is trying to, I guess, manipulate the overall results of a game. So for example, deliberately losing a match. Spot fixing relates to any sort of market within that. And because of the growth of gambling industry and especially the data companies which power it, there's so many of these markets available now, people know that you can bet on next goal scorer, a number of yellow cards, number of corners, and spot fixing is effectively manipulating any of that latter group. It can be much easier for fixers to organize spot fixing, the match fixing, because rather than potentially having to get a whole team in on it to concede X number of goals, you only really would need one player to deliberately get a yellow card or to potentially contribute towards having a large number of corners. And there can be pretty lucrative markets to do with this just because of the specificity of some of the potential outcomes.
- [36:27]
Emma Payton
Is there a sort of precedent for a story like this in football? And which sports are most affected by spot fixings?
- [36:35]
Jacob Whitehead
Yeah, there are a few. I mean, to start with a number of sports. I remember I did a series about fixing earlier this month and I spoke to one expert who said it's in every sport in every continent. Now, the only reason that we can't find it is because we may not have the monitoring systems yet. Now, while we might not have found those examples in every sport, there's been dozens, especially in lots of U.S. sports. There's one really interesting case in football recently which happened in the Australian A league, and that was to do with the team in total earning a total number of yellow cards or conceding a certain number of corners. And when you go through, I got access to the court documents of these and you can sort of see the mechanisms through which this really unfolds. So there's a ringleader who was in contact with a Colombian source. And then the ringleader, the captain, who was actually a former Chelsea trainee called Ulises de Villa, was then recruiting other players who they gave nicknames to, like the Butcher. They're communicating via emojis. And all three players ended up pleading guilty to the offenses in that. The second two, I suppose, less integral members have already been sentenced, and De Vere is currently awaiting sentencing now. But it just shows, I guess, how easy it is for this kind of corruption to overtake a football club.
- [37:45]
Emma Payton
And just how much of a growing concern is spot fixing in sport?
- [37:51]
Jacob Whitehead
Definitely a growing concern, mostly because of just this evolution of both the gambling market and the data market, who are then selling that information to the bookmakers. The specificity of some of the markets on offer are so minuscule in a way that means that the potential profits are even larger. Think about sports like tennis or baseball, where after every play the odds effectively reset. A player could potentially manipulate that without even needing to lose the game as a whole. If you say to a tennis player, I want you to lose the seventh game of match, but then go on to win the game and win the match overall, that's a lot easier to sell to a player than potentially saying lose to match altogether. So effectively, it's supposed that when you have this blank spot, when there's more opportunity for athletes, and when it's difficult for regulators to keep up with this explosion in information, something not helped by the rise of US prediction markets, which currently aren't covered by the existing regulators, then it means really that it's a real scramble to. To prevent cases, potential cases of spot fixing occurring.
- [38:51]
Emma Payton
Thanks, Jacob. Yeah, a complex story. If you do want more on this, then check it out over on the Athletic. Okay, before we go, it is time now to look ahead and focus on today's star of soccer. And we are focusing on South Korea's Lee Kang in his profile, I'm told, was written by Liam Vahm, but that is not correct.
- [39:13]
Liam Tharme
No. So Tom Harris, one of our great data tactics writers, he's actually written it. I have written on Lee Kang in before, but I don't know how this mix up has occurred, so I will give Tom his flowers as a lovely piece or his profile if anyone wants to read that.
- [39:26]
Emma Payton
Okay, well, South Korea play Mexico in Group A. Both teams in a really good position after winning their opening matches. So this actually could be the standout game of the day in terms of Lee Kangan then got an assist in his team's opener, a 21 victory over the Czech Republic. What else can you tell us about him?
- [39:43]
Liam Tharme
Yeah, the assist kind of typifies the way he plays. He's quite a diminutive midfielder. Really nice, kind of chipped passing behind. He's a really talented, really good technical left footer. One of the unsung heroes really for PSG in recent years as well. Since he moved over from from La Liga. He plays a lot in Ligue 1 because I think kind of the physicality of the Champions League is. Can be a bit kind of much for him. He can get a bit swallowed up in those games. There was even a period a couple years ago where Lewis Enrico played him as a false nine and it just, you know, didn't quite work at all. Of course, going to the French League where it's, I think, still quite intense, but not quite a Champions League level, he really kind of thrives and shines there. So he plays really regularly and is a really key part. So a real kind of phenomenal technical player who was good at youth level as well. Played for South Korea at under 20 level. Had a really good World Cup, I think, back in 2019. Yeah, it's a really, really good, really promising. And often actually I think you don't tend to get that many players that perform that well at the youth level kicking on and always achieving a senior level. Sometimes it's the late bloomers that that do best. But yeah, he's a really promising player.
- [40:40]
Emma Payton
He won the Golden Ball in that tournament. Erling Haaland won the Golden Boot in good company to me. Is his role all about supporting Heung Min Son? Because I think, you know, he's their star player, isn't he?
- [40:52]
Liam Toomey
Yeah. Although I think there may be a little bit of a changing of the guard there. Lee Kang in is clearly the future and maybe the present of this team. It's a shame really that we don't see more of him, as you say, in the Champions League because I think if he were playing for a slightly lesser club, he would be a key player on the European stage as well. I just really like him. I think he's a really elegant, tidy technical midfielder who's got a real eye for a creative pass. So hopefully we see a bit more of that in this group stage.
- [41:22]
Emma Payton
Yeah, looking forward to seeing him in action later and I feel like we've had this has been good guys because we've started on a real positive today after England.
- [41:28]
Liam Toomey
Yeah, that's what you get when you
- [41:30]
Emma Payton
get Liam to Liam's tier effect.
- [41:32]
Liam Toomey
Yeah.
- [41:33]
Emma Payton
Well thank you to the both of you. Thanks to Jack, Nick and Jacob as well. And a reminder for you watching that the athletics coverage throughout the World cup is completely free over on our app, so don't miss out. You can watch or listen to us wherever you get your podcasts and do subscribe as well to our YouTube channel if you haven't already. Because like I mentioned yesterday, we are closing in on 300,000 subscribers. Ian Irving will be with you tomorrow. Catch you soon.
- [42:05]
Paige Desorbo
Foreign.
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Foreign.
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