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- [00:00]
Podcast Host (T. Rowe Price)
This podcast is brought to you by T. Rowe Price. Join me as I chat with Chris Murphy, their head of ETF Specialists, to unpack what ETFs are, how they work, and how T. Rowe Price is helping investors make more informed decisions. So as a pure investment tool, as an ETF versus let's just say a mutual fund, what are the advantages and disadvantages between those two?
- [00:22]
Chris Murphy
The ETF structure itself allows for the costs to really be materially lower, and so on average, an ETF is going to be a lot less expensive. Expensive from an expense ratio perspective.
- [00:33]
Podcast Host (T. Rowe Price)
Let's talk about the philosophy that differentiates T. Rowe Price from other organizations that are in the ETF space. What's that secret sauce that you guys have?
- [00:41]
Chris Murphy
It comes back to kind of the core principles of our firm, which is curiosity around what can we do to find an edge or where can we innovate?
- [00:50]
Podcast Host (T. Rowe Price)
Listen in to discover how T. Rowe Price's active ETFs can help you add an edge to outperform the index. Learn more at tprice.com/explore ETFs this holiday.
- [01:01]
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- [01:34]
Athletic FC Host (Ayo Akimwaleere)
This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by LinkedIn. If you've ever hired for your small business, you know how important it is to find the right person. That's why LinkedIn Jobs is stepping things up with their new AI assistant, so you can feel confident you're finding top talent that you can't find anywhere else. The best part is those great candidates are already on LinkedIn. In fact, employees hired through LinkedIn are 30% more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor. And that's a big deal when every hire counts, and hiring doesn't have to be complicated. With LinkedIn Jobs AI Assistant, you can skip the confusing steps and recruiting jargon. It filters through applicants based on criteria you've set for your role and surfaces only the best matches so you're not stuck sorting through a mountain of resumes. Because when you have a business to run, you don't have hours to spend on hiring and you don't want to just wait around hoping the right person stumbles upon your job. That's why LinkedIn Jobs AI assistant suggests 25 great fit candidates daily so you can invite them to apply and keep things moving. So hire Wright the first time. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com athleticfc Then promote it to use LinkedIn Jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates. That's LinkedIn.com AthleticFC to boost your job for free terms and conditions apply.
- [02:50]
Ayo Akimwaleere
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwaleere A year ago on Friday, Everton's takeover was complete. Since then the club have been rejuvenated. So how far can they go under the Moissae? With us today we have the Athletics Everton correspondent Paddy Boylan. We've also got Greg o' Keefe who covered David Moyes first spell at the club as well. Later on we'll be joined by former Everton midfielder Leon Osman.
- [03:23]
Leon Osman
Look how hard that trio of Grealish and Jai and Trisby hall and working from what are usually your luxury kind of positions because they're working so hard with the they've got, you're going to get results.
- [03:33]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Now before we catch up with Leon Paddy, let's get into this Friday marks one year in charge of Everton for the Friedkin Group. How has the mood changed since their takeover from Fahad Mashiri?
- [03:46]
Paddy Boylan
Yeah, I think it's just a different club. I think back to what it was like to cover Everton 12 months ago or 18 months ago and there was this sense of turbulence behind the scenes that Everton really could not shake and I think at times the concern was almost existential for the club move. 12 months on and a lot of the financial worries have dissipated. The freaking group have stabilised the club financially. They're in a new stadium, so there's another big difference. And on the pitch they've kind of flirted between that kind of fifth, sixth, seventh place on the table and kind of lower mid table. So a sea change really for a side that was imperiled financially and battling relegation every year to what is relative stability right now.
- [04:34]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Greg Paddy touches on it. A year ago Everton were three points above the relegation zone. You remember that. Now they're only four points off a place in the top four. We'll delve into what the future looks like for Everton a little later on but you know, in your eyes, how have their fortunes changed over the last 12 months?
- [04:51]
Greg O'Keefe
I think the main thing was, as you said in the intro, really was the change of ownership and this sense of hope that that gave the club, you know, putting behind them the constant fear of being docked points by the Premier League because of PSR breaches. As part he alluded to this kind of away from the field existential crisis that was long in the brewing really and it was always, well, whatever happened on the pitch, good or bad, and it was largely bad in the background, there's this chance that the club could, could just completely implode. So the new owners have brought stability. They've been very kind of soft touch so far. Then of course they've moved to the Hill Dickinson Stadium. The massive change of leaving Goodison park had been navigated quite smoothly I would say, on the whole. And that coupled with David Moyes coming back, you know, at the time I must admit I wasn't sure, you know, is it the right thing to do, to take a step back and look backwards towards someone who's already had a big part in the past. But actually it's worked and clearly, as you know, padd to work quite impressively to go from what they were the last few seasons to a club that before the weekend when they go in Stamford Bridge, people were talking about their ability to climb into the top four is just remarkable really. So his safe hands have been really important as well.
- [06:06]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, I was just thinking some of the conversations we've had Paddy, in terms of who the potential bias could have been for Everton and you know, you remember that story. But you know, this is what, 12 months or so? I mean to try and give a club that level of stability perhaps we have to say actually in of custodianship, this is quite a decent one as far as football goes anyway.
- [06:27]
Paddy Boylan
Yeah, I think one of the things that came through very early on with the Freecon group is that they were well funded and well intentioned. Now for Everton, given their financial problems behind the scenes over the last few years, that was a really great thing to add to the club. More or less overnight when the takeover was completed, they refinanced the debt on low interest long term rates. That obviously has a big impact on their spending power. They've invested in the squad to the tune of over £100 million over the summer and there's just this general sense that they are steady custodians. I don't think we necessarily are going to go anything beyond that right now. I don't think they've set the world on fire, but I think there's a steadiness about Everton that just simply was not there with Farhad and Mosheari. And I think to Greg's point, David Moyes helps with that as well. He's been around the block. I think he's come back to Everton. A different manager to the one that went away. More mellow for sure. Certainly when dealing with media at times, more mellow with his players I think as well. There was a comment in the press conference a few weeks ago where he was told what Jack Grealish had said in a post match interview. I think the manager has come out and says, you know, a few times, it's not, it's not down to me, it's down to Jack, which sometimes I disagree with because, you know, I've come here and he's been so, so good with me. You know, I've absolutely loved playing for him and I've said before, you know, in interviews, as soon as I spoke to him, I just knew that I wanted to come and play for him. So, yeah, I thank him, you know, for giving me my love back, you know, and waking up on a match day and wanting to, you know, smile and play again. Moises response was, I'm not really sure how to take this because usually the players sort of fear me and I quite like having that fear factor, that fear element in this. It felt quite fitting that Moyes was there to help Everton see out Goodison, what was a really crucial chapter to then bring them into the new stadium. And I think he sees his role as well as a custodian. He joined Everton actually at quite a similar period to when he first arrived with the club. Low down on the table, not particularly financially secure, and then obviously first time around built Everton up to be a perennial European qualifier. That's the aim this time, but I'd argue it's a much more competitive league this season for sure.
- [08:48]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, I'm with you on that one. I'm just thinking about, and I think I've asked Paddy this before, Greg, is how important is it that Everton are getting this version of David Moyes as well? Because you think of the street smarts he's probably picked up, the Man United experiment, the sauciedad experiment. You also think about the West Ham moments he's had, you know, bringing a cup to West Ham, European cup, and now Everton get a guy who is probably fired up after actually what happened to him at West Ham in the way that I Guess he was ushered out a little bit towards the end.
- [09:20]
Greg O'Keefe
Yeah, completely. I mean that's one thing you have to say about David Moyes is the fire is still burning. Yes, he's more mellow, a bit more rounded in how he kind of his kind of people skills perhaps, you know, with some players, younger players and as Paddy said, the media as well. But make no mistake that he's clearly still got aims and objectives. You know, just because he's one of the older managers in the league now is certainly he's not in any way kind of old fashioned in the sense of he's actually come back and you know, you spoke about his time at Sociedad, he went and managed in Spain, won a trophy which was a huge thing for him. That sort of. Well, he's a good manager but he can't get over the line. And that was something that certainly played his first spell at Everton, his definitive spell at Everton which kind of made him got in the United job obviously helped him and it also helped Everton fans think y. Well, all right, we're getting like a revamped Moyes 2.0, you know, maybe he can do that with us as well. And certainly it's too soon to speak for in terms of silverware and it was an inauspicious start with the Carabao cup this season when I think one of his very rare missteps was putting out a weakened team in the early rounds of that and Everton paid the price against Wolves. But you know, let's see what happens in the cup against one of FA cup, against one of his other former teams, Sunderland in January. But I think David Moyes is definitely somebody who's come, you know, he's come into it with an evolved version of that manager and you know, even in the progressive football the team have played, it's like he's picked up from the end of his Everton tenure the first time around when he had got to the point where he was embracing players with a bit more technical aspect, bit more of a flair players. You know, he always liked Leon Osmond but he was almost like the exceptions to the rule initially it was players in and around him but he was definitely wanting to play more expansively in the final third without ever, ever sacrificing those defensive principles. And you know, that worked for him back then and it's working for him now.
- [11:18]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Do you reckon this could have been a risk though, Paddy Friedling group bringing Moyes back? I mean sometimes these things can work sometimes. Actually, you know, some might say football's moved on in a whole new way since David Moyes was at Everton.
- [11:29]
Paddy Boylan
Yeah, I didn't see it as a risk, to be honest. And the reason why was that David Moyes for Everton's almost like your warm comfort blanket. He's the thing you go to, you revert to when other things have failed and you need to give the fans a bit of a lift. One of the things right at the end of Sean Dyche's tenure was that there was real angst among the fan base at the style of football. And Goodison was a tough place to play for Everton players at that time. The manager wasn't particularly popular. So to get somebody in and here I think they've probably learned a few lessons from Roma, one of the other clubs in their stable. One of the things they did at Roma was bring with the results going poorly on the pitch. Last season they brought in Claudio Ranieri who was a club legend in Rome and that went well. I think they've almost adapted that playbook here. They brought in Moyes, a similar kind of figure for the Everton fan base and immediately the change in the atmosphere around the place was really quite notable and you could just almost see kind of long term staff who'd been at the club for a while and were quite downtrodden. You could see the smiles returning on the faces. That's a big thing for morale and actually it makes a difference I think in the stadium and to the players as well because the players kind of have to feed off that atmosphere. I think just throwing this forward, I think where this actually gets really interesting in terms of the freaking long term ambitions, medium and long term ambitions for Everton is where they go after moyce because he's 62. In his first press conference when he joined he said I'm not going to be here for another decade or more. As he had been in his first spell at Everton, this is the period of stability. But what follows when his contract expires. He signed a two and a half year deal last January is really quite interesting. Where they decide to take the club, what direction long term beyond the warm comfort blanket of Moyes.
- [13:27]
Ayo Akimwaleere
I definitely want to dig into that a little later on but I guess my thing as well is with this portfolio of the Friedkin Group. Paddy, where does Everton fit in? Are they top of the tree next to Roma? You know, I know they've got Cannes as well but like where does it fit into that sort of small little pyramid that they've. Got?
- [13:41]
Paddy Boylan
Well, if you believe the external and internal briefings the Friedkin Group will tell you that Everton and Roma are at the top of the tree together and there's no difference. What would be interesting though, and the only way to test this, I suppose, is if the two clubs got to a position where they qualified for the same European competition. Now, I don't think we're there just yet. Roma are doing very well in Serie A this season, looking like they could qualify for the Champions League. Everton, I still think will have a push for Europe, but I would probably expect them to finish somewhere around 8th to 12th based on injuries and everything else and whether luck goes their way. So we're not there yet, but there will be an interesting test of that at some point in the future, you would think. So far they've invested in both clubs and I think that was the big question mark when they arrived at Everton. It was this club leads them a lot of work, a lot of financing, behind the scenes, loads of potential, but to get it back to what it was, it needs that level of finance. And they'd already spent a lot of money at Roma at times not particularly successfully. So to throw more into Everton, I think a lot of people were questioning whether this could work, whether they had the resource to do both of those things and even wanted to. But the early signs are, and we can only take the early signs are that they are prepared to invest in both clubs.
- [15:14]
Athletic FC Host (Ayo Akimwaleere)
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- [17:43]
Podcast Host (T. Rowe Price)
This podcast is brought to you by T. Rowe Price. Join me as I chat with Chris Murphy, their head of ETF specialists, to unpack what ETFs are, how they work, and how T. Rowe Price is helping investors make more informed decisions. So as a pure investment tool, as a an ETF versus, let's just say, a mutual fund, what are the advantages and disadvantages between those two?
- [18:05]
Chris Murphy
The ETF structure itself allows for the costs to really be materially lower. And so on average, an ETF is going to be a lot less expensive from an expense ratio perspective.
- [18:16]
Podcast Host (T. Rowe Price)
Let's talk about the philosophy that differentiates T. Rowe Price from other organizations that are in the ETF space. What's that secret sauce that you guys have?
- [18:25]
Chris Murphy
It comes back to kind of the core principles of our firm, which is curiosity around what can we do to find an edge? Or where can we innovate Listen in.
- [18:33]
Podcast Host (T. Rowe Price)
To discover how T. Rowe Price's active ETFs can help you add an edge to outperform the index. Learn more attrowprice.com Explore ETFs.
- [18:49]
Leon Osman
Here's Osmond Johnson wants it played down the inside right channel. They're standing off him at the moment.
- [18:54]
Paddy Boylan
It's Leon Osman. Oh, fabulous. That's lifted the lid at Goodison Park.
- [19:03]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Joining us now is the man who made more appearances under David Moyes than anyone else, former Everton midfielder Leon Osman. Thanks for joining us, Liam. Really appreciate it. Greg's already alluded to the fact that maybe you're a bit of a teacher's pet, but I ain't saying that his words, not mine, but, you know, we've just been speaking about the importance of David Moyes and bringing him back to Everton and you should know more than anyone really what he's like, you know, what have you made of his return? And also, you know, he's had to overlook this transition into a new stadium. What do you think he's done for the atmosphere around the club as well?
- [19:36]
Leon Osman
Well, I think it's been a brilliant return from him. I think it was a clever choice from the freaking group in terms of a safe pair of hands and security. In a time where you're joining a league for the first time and you want to make sure you, you're being led by somebody who's, you know, very experienced, not only in the club matters and the running of the football club, but the league itself. But then on, on top of that, I think David Moises, I think he's probably exceeded expectations as regards to probably most people that had an opinion on him. He's took the club from fighting against relegation when he, when he joined to be at the top, near the top of the league at the moment. And it's not just a click of the fingers. It's work on the trainer pitch, it's work with the squad, it's getting that feel back within the football club, the demands of the fans, the demands of each other every single day on the trainer pitch. Speaking to some, some of the players, you know, those levels have gone through the roof of expectation on each other, but also, you know, a moment that people weren't quite sure David Moyes was so capable of in his first deal. The recruitment has been, has been terrific. In one transfer window, he got it right, I think at Everton Oberlin in his first spell, over a few transfer windows, one or two didn't go right. But, you know, in this window, to have to sign the players he has especially obviously Keenan, Jewsby hall and Jack Grealish getting them into the football club. In only one year since the Freega group took over, not even that since David Moyes took the helm, Everton have gone from a team that weren't really enjoyable to watch. You went into the game thinking it was counterattack football and set pieces at best and trying to dig results. To Evertonians actually go into the football match expecting, not even hoping anymore, expecting to be entertained with, with the quality players on show. So it, it has been quite a big turnaround.
- [21:34]
Ayo Akimwaleere
I mean Paddy, it has been quite a big turnaround but there have been some high points but also some very interesting points. You know you remember Everton losing to Leeds on the opening match of the season. You know we spoke about, you know, the league cup exit against Wolves who are right at the bottom of the Premier League right now. And even when they did play Wolves away, it was a really close call. You know, three two to Everton. There have been some moments where you feel Everton could have capitalized this season which probably shows that actually for all we're talking about there's still a fair bit of work to do.
- [22:05]
Paddy Boylan
Yeah, I think there is. And I'd actually say that of anybody probably from Manchester City and Arsenal down. The league is more saturated than ever this year partly because the promoter clubs have done so well. So there's just this kind of big blob in the middle where everybody's beating everybody. Results are quite volatile I think in the space of a week Everton went away to Old trafford and with 10 men beat Manchester United for the first time since 2013. Then at the weekend lost 41 at home to Newcastle who hadn't won an away game in the Premier League all season. Manchester United who had lost to Everton with 10 men at Old Trafford then went and beat Crystal palace who've been doing really well away at Selhurst. So I don't think that's just an Everton problem but it's one that obviously they need to work on themselves and get right. They are to me performing like a mid table side. A pretty solid mid table side that has those fluctuations but in the main is pretty solid. The way I would describe the progress is speaking to the players and the manager after Saturday's defeat at Stamford Bridge, lost 20 at Chelsea. They were all really disappointed that they hadn't capitalised on the chance to go fourth and they hadn't beaten Chelsea. They went into that game thinking they had a real opportunity and I think that shows you that the level of expectation even in the dressing room has changed. Those wins against Manchester United and Bournemouth and a few other sides so far, Brighton have given them a real sense of confidence that they can do better things, that they have loftier aims this season. I think that that shows in how they're approaching all of these games, to be honest.
- [23:48]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Greg, I'm going to come to you in just a second, but as we're talking about where this team is at right now, I just want to touch on something with Leon. Obviously, a man who's been selected a lot under David Moyes, is that, you know, we talk about players like Grealish, Dewsby hall and Endive, for instance. I mean, great window for Grealish and Dewsby hall fundamentally. But what do you think it is about David Moyes that he's able to get the best out of these attacking players in particular?
- [24:12]
Leon Osman
I think it's a combination of making them believe in themselves, but also making them realize their importance to the team and the importance of their performance with regards to the team getting a result and how people rely on on each other. It makes you believe that the team can't get a result unless you, you are one of 11 players that play well and suddenly you realize the significance of of that you're wanting to make sure you give your all. And we all know that going into every single football match that players have real quality. But you can't expect a 10 out of 10 performance from every player every week that will fluctuate levels of performance, always will. But what he demands is that your level of effort doesn't. So if you're playing well, you might give him a 9 out of 10 with regards to performance. But if you're not the worst, you're going to give a David Moyes team is a six out of 10. You're not going to be a drifter. You're not going to be someone who's in and out the game and give a level of a 2 or a 3 out of 10 if you're not playing well. Those kind of players don't take part in a David Moyes team. And that being said, that then makes it, you know, even if you're not playing well, you're still part of a team that's going to be difficult to beat and maybe someone else will come in and play well that day. But if you're then asking players with real quality to do that, to work hard as they are in dies, you do some holes. You're Grealish, James Garner as well I must mention who's been outstanding for a year now is as well as. If you get these players that have got real quality with the hard work and the desire, I mean, look how hard that trio of Grealish and Jai and Jusby hall and working from what are usually your luxury kind of positions because they're working so hard with the quality they've got. You're going to get results. And the results Everton have got have been great. They bring a level of, as Paddy was just saying, a level of expectation on yourself moving forward. You know, you've been away, you've worked hard, you've been to a difficult place. We've got a result. Why can't we do that again? We can. We just need two or three of us to really be outstanding because there isn't anybody in the team that's going to let us down. So it's knowing that you're part of a real team and unit and you're knowing that, you know, if you, if you're working hard on one side of the pitch, you don't even need to look behind in knowing that your teammate is going to be there. That real understanding that he brings in, you know, I've seen that develop over the year that he's. That he's been at the football club and I always just know that every time he signs a new player, first of all he would have done his homework and whether their attitude towards the football team and that unit mentality is going to be there and then before too long you'll see that transition onto the pitch. You've definitely seen it in Jack Grealish. He's the one you probably say, I mean I've never seen and work so hard defensively and then when you get what's quality on top, you're going to get the reward of that. And I see that with Everton at the moment.
- [27:05]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah. Do you see many similarities here, Greg, to, you know, players that Leon would have played with and the time you were covering Everton, you know, Pina, Arteta, Cahill, when he talks about this sort of industrious nature of Everton and a team being hard to beat, I can't help but think that was very similar to, to that rendition of Everton as well.
- [27:23]
Greg O'Keefe
Yeah, certainly the back end of Dave Moyes tenure, like I said earlier, there was still a defensive stability but Everton were playing some really, really attractive football, particularly in the final third. I think often that they might hit a diagonal, Phil Jagielko might hit a diagonal ball to Fellaini who invariably win it and then you'd bring in players like Leon, Steven Pienaar, Mikel Arteta and sort of three really gifted technical players. And all of a sudden we'll talk about it, I'm sure later. Maybe at times they're missing that final piece in terms of a centre forward, you could reliably score good numbers, but they certainly were attractive to watch. And I think, you know, initially it's quite an easy comparison. But I think initially watching Illuminandi, he did remind me of Steven Pienaar, you know, sort of similar stature, you know, kind of the sort of the bustling kind of work rate with the quick feet and the. Really it was those quick feats actually and ability to go past players. And I loved watching Steven Pienaar play for Everton. But I almost think, you know, ndai's got a bit more. He kind of. Look, he's not. He's not going to finish every chance he gets. Possibly a little bit more clinical. He scored some really good goals this season, Steven, and probably only chip in now and then. Although when he did like that goal against Arsenal away in the Emirates.
- [28:43]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Absolutely, mate. Yeah, don't tell me about that.
- [28:46]
Greg O'Keefe
Oh, what a goal in the snow.
- [28:47]
Paddy Boylan
Cahill Pienaar has made a cracking run through the midd.
- [28:50]
Leon Osman
He's onside, he's got half the field to himself. Stephen, Peter.
- [28:57]
Paddy Boylan
He'S done it.
- [28:59]
Greg O'Keefe
And it's really interesting listening to Leon there talking about that because you think, what is it that about Moyes that has got that he's got these gifted players but he's making them to a man, provide that work rate. And I don't think it's anything like. I mean, Lyon will know more than me. I don't think it's, you know, Mikel Arteta's light bulbs or bringing pickpockets in in team meetings or anything that it's almost. It's built around Moises own intensity and his values and that emphasis on team. It's this fundamental thing that you do not let the other man down. And as Leon said at times, fair to say, Jack Grealish's levels have just dipped from that start of the season when he looked like, oh my goodness, he's nine out of 10 every game. He's running the games. But he hasn't dipped in that work rate. And that's to a man across the three of them, not one of them in games has gone missing. And even if you look at Keenan, Jewsbury hall, that were Craig, the ability to bring the ball and progress, it through the central areas, I think they're really close to being a very, very good sort of side that qualifies you a bit like they did, you know, towards the first end of David Moyes tenure. But there's a familiar gap in their armoury, I think.
- [30:13]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah. Leon, just very quickly, could you take us beyond the curtain just a little bit? Then just following on from what Greg said, what would he be like in the Benjamin, for instance, how would he basically speak to the players? Because, you know, it's very different to a Mikel Arteta who likes to bring the fighter jets in and all that kind of stuff, but you know what I mean.
- [30:29]
Leon Osman
Yeah. No, David always wanted to, you know, as I think it was Greg had touched on earlier, he wanted the players to sort of be a bit scared of him. So he wanted to bring that. That attitude. But ultimately, if I'm trying to break down how he builds a squad, he wants the players to demand it off each other. So he sets it. He sets up the environment. Environment so that when you go in at halftime, at the end of the game, the manager shouldn't even need to dig you out at that point. The players know when somebody within that team or within that squad hasn't given the role. So it's the players that start to demand it of each other. And that just brings a different level of feeling within a squad. You're not just letting one man down now. You're not just letting the manager down. You haven't performed for him. You've actually not performed for the other 10 players that you're in the team with. And then you start realizing, well, that's the case. I shouldn't be in the team. So it's an environment that demands it off you, the players, your teammates. That's. That's how I think that is his special talent to create that environment that. Where sometimes he doesn't need to say that much because we all know ourselves and we all know each other when someone's let you down.
- [31:39]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Paddy, can we talk about Keenan Jewsbury hall as well? I know you've written about him. I'm really fascinated by this guy because the move to Chelsea, I think a lot of people thought, why did he do that? But I've got to. Also a really good cricketer. I played cricket with him when I was at Leicester. Yeah, for the Premier League. And the guy can hit a ball. He can hit a ball and he can hit a football as well. I mean, he seems rejuvenated. A bit like Jack Grealish at Everton can you just tell us as to why that might be?
- [32:06]
Paddy Boylan
Yeah, I think he came with a bit of a point to prove that the spell at Chelsea obviously yielded two trophies, but certainly with the club World cup, he was a peripheral figure at Chelsea. He obviously went from being the main man at Leicester City, his boyhood club, to Chelsea, I think followed Enzo Maresca basically, and was seen by Maresca as somebody who could very quickly help the rest of the dressing room understand what was expected of them in terms of standards and tactics. So he's come to Everton a little bit older, 26, 27, with that point of proof, and very quickly set about showing what he can do. I've been really impressed with him in terms of his work rate, but he's also brought this composure to Everton in the final third. Even in more difficult moments for him and more difficult moments for the team, Moyes has been pretty steadfast in picking him and praising him. There was a comment in a press conference a few weeks ago where he spoke about maybe Dewsbury hall going slightly under the radar with fans. And since then, actually, over the last month, I would say Dewsbury hall has stepped it up another notch and probably been Everton's best player in that time. What's been really interesting is that they've had to contend with a lot of absences, injuries, suspensions, and at times they've been really stretched. I mean, talking about that win away at Bournemouth, by my count they had 15 fit senior outfield players. And I think what Dewsbury Hall's done is he's at that point in his career now where he sees himself as a senior player, sees himself as somebody who can contribute in a leadership sense and has kind of taken up that mantle with other players missing and really kicked on. So it was a bitter, bitter blow for Everton on Saturday when he limped off with a hamstring injury early on in that game against Chelsea. But bear in mind, Everton are also missing Illiman and Jar now, who I think is probably being the standout player across the whole season so far. The thought of going without those two out of a busy, festive schedule is quite a tough one.
- [34:23]
Leon Osman
One of the things about Dewsbury hall, though, is, or with players in general, is that assurance that no matter what I try, I'm going to play next week. I've got the confidence of the manager.
- [34:34]
Athletic FC Host (Ayo Akimwaleere)
When you.
- [34:34]
Leon Osman
When you're at a football club like he was at Chelsea and you get in limited game time and you suddenly feel every time I go on the pitch, I have to actually do Something or a mindset of I can't give the ball away or I'm going to have to take loads of people. Your mindset is influenced by probably the minutes you're on the pitch or, you know, whether it is going on. They think, well, I can't give the ball away. Which means now he's not trying passes or I'm going to have to shoot from everywhere to try and score. Now you're. You're doing that and I might be out there the team the next week anyway, because the managers obviously got me as part of the squad. He's come to Everton, like where he was at Leicester, and there's a feeling that he's pretty much going to play every single week. Even if he's had a bad two games, he's still going to play in the third week. And that just gives you as a player sort of an extra bit of confidence that, you know, you can stick your chest out, you know, you're an important part of the team, but also that I could try things. I can. I can have a shot, I can cut across, I can force passes at times, even though I might give some away. And that's when you start seeing the better part of people because you start to see that where their mindset is, what the. Their ability to see passes is, whether they're brave enough to be able to do it, whether they've got the ability to drop a past 50 yards or, you know, see some of the goals he's hit. I think we're seeing a real calm and assured performance. I'm not surprised his levels have gone through the roof because the more he plays, the better he looks.
- [35:56]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Okay, before you go, thought we'd get our money's worth and get you to do a bit of a trivia quiz for us. Leon, get yourself ready. I'm sure Paddy and Greg are going to be waiting just to help you out just in case. But I reckon you should be able to get this. I got quite a few of them, so. All right, let's do it. As we've mentioned, you've played more games than anyone for David Moyes. Who are the next five players to have played the most for David Moyes?
- [36:21]
Greg O'Keefe
Oh.
- [36:24]
Leon Osman
Tim Howard.
- [36:25]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yes.
- [36:27]
Leon Osman
You gotta go for a goalkeeper. They're always up there, aren't they? Jags, maybe?
- [36:30]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, definitely. Do you know, I thought Jaglielka, but no, another defender, Nigerian.
- [36:36]
Leon Osman
Oh, Joe Yobo.
- [36:37]
Paddy Boylan
Yobo.
- [36:37]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yes.
- [36:38]
Leon Osman
Joseph Yobo.
- [36:39]
Paddy Boylan
Yes.
- [36:39]
Leon Osman
Of course, I forget about the. The year before I. Before I was playing, before he gave me before he gave me a chance. Tim Kale.
- [36:50]
Greg O'Keefe
Go on.
- [36:50]
Ayo Akimwaleere
I'll give you that one. I'd give you another one. His brother's quite a famous pundit now.
- [36:55]
Leon Osman
Oh, Philip Neville.
- [36:57]
Greg O'Keefe
Yes.
- [36:58]
Ayo Akimwaleere
You got it, you got it, you got it. And the final one. I didn't get this one at all.
- [37:03]
Leon Osman
Oh, yeah. Don't think it was Hibble Jags, Baines, Jolie and Sylvan.
- [37:08]
Ayo Akimwaleere
You've actually said it.
- [37:10]
Paddy Boylan
Yes, yes.
- [37:12]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Tony Hibben.
- [37:13]
Leon Osman
There you go. He'll go mad at me. I didn't say that first.
- [37:21]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Didn't even need the help of Greg or Paddy. Honestly, Leon. Honestly. A real pleasure to have you on. And a real fruitful conversation as well. Let's see how Everton end up at the end of the season.
- [37:31]
Leon Osman
Cheers, guys.
- [37:36]
Athletic FC Host (Ayo Akimwaleere)
This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by LinkedIn. If you've ever hired for your small business, you know how important it is to find find the right person. That's why LinkedIn Jobs is stepping things up with their new AI assistant, so you can feel confident you're finding top talent that you can't find anywhere else. The best part is those great candidates are already on LinkedIn. In fact, employees hired through LinkedIn are 30% more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor. And that's a big deal when every hire counts and hiring doesn't have to be complicated. With LinkedIn Jobs AI Assistant, you can skip the confusing steps and recruiting jargon. It filters through applicants based on criteria you've set for your role and surfaces only the best matches so you're not stuck sorting through a mountain of resumes. Because when you have a business to run, you don't have hours to spend on hiring. And you don't want to just wait around hoping the right person stumbles upon your job. That's why LinkedIn Jobs AI assistant suggests 25 great fit candidates daily so you can invite them to apply and keep things moving. So hire right the first first time. Post your job for free@LinkedIn.com Athletic FC. Then promote it to use LinkedIn Jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates. That's LinkedIn.com AthleticFC to boost your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.
- [38:53]
Podcast Host (T. Rowe Price)
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Chris Murphy
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Podcast Host (T. Rowe Price)
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- [41:09]
Athletic FC Host (Ayo Akimwaleere)
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akamolera.
- [41:13]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Yeah, Paddy, we've, we've touched on the stadium, the Hill Dickinson Stadium. But let's dig a little deeper. Actually, you know, you sometimes see teams struggle to settle into new grounds. I'll say Arsenal going from Highbury to the Emirates was a a big jump, and it took them a while to find some sort of Consistency but so far what it's four wins, two draws and, and, and two defeats. How have they managed to. To avoid that?
- [41:34]
Paddy Boylan
I think the big thing about the new stadium is that it's football first in a way that certainly the West Ham stadium is not an athletics track with a football pitch in the middle. And I think a pretty terrible spectator experience for fans certainly in comparison even to Upton park. This Everton Stadium and we saw it almost emerging from the dock to steal the stadium architect Dan Mies line and I think there was that initial anxiety as to whether it would be able to replicate the noise of Goodison, but it was designed in such a way so as to take advantage of that pretty fervent Everton support. The sound kind of bounces off the metallic roofs and circulates around the stadium. When it's good, when Everton are doing well, it can be really quite special. It can't be Goodison. It would take 133 years, I think for it to feel like Goodison because Goodison was a place for memories and generations of Everton fans to go. But what it has done really well I think is bring Everton into the 21st century. It's really, it's a modern facility but it still has the atmosphere and everything else.
- [42:50]
Ayo Akimwaleere
You talk about bringing Everton into the 21st century. Is that lady still knocking around giving toffees to people like the little mints? Is she still there?
- [42:58]
Paddy Boylan
Yeah, yeah, there was period at the start of the season where the toffee lady was not present and certainly the people I spoke to had picked up on that. It's one of Everton's most cherished traditions and I think fans were hoping that would come back. The toffee lady returned after a pretty brief hiatus where they were trying to work out how this would work, the logistics of it for the Newcastle game and will now be present. At least one toffee lady will be present at every game for the rest of the season and beyond. I think fans like that idea of bringing a little piece of Goodison with them. It's obviously a kind of a typically Everton quirk. I did a piece on this recently, was researching it and one of the things I found remarkable is that in the olden days the toffee lady would have a big basket of toffees to throw into the crowd. Everton mints as they were, that now health and safety regulations dictate no, they can't be thrown, they can't do it, no, they have to be taken out of the basket or handed to supporters. So I mean It's. We've got a bit mad there, I think.
- [44:06]
Ayo Akimwaleere
I know I'm not condoning like, you know, hitting someone in the eye with a sweet, but still, there's something quite romantic about just tossing them up and landing. Greg, were you. Were you apprehensive of the move? Because, you know, this such a. I still say it now, such a special atmosphere at Goodison park, the closeness of the. The fans to the footballers. You know, one footballer I've interviewed has said, sometimes when you're not playing that well, they tell you and you'll hear it. And then you go to this grand new stadium which is, yes, we know it's modern football, but, you know, losing that spirit, losing that fight, losing that authenticity. Were you worried about that?
- [44:40]
Greg O'Keefe
Absolutely, yeah. For all the reasons that you've. You've outlined, really. No one ever took what Goodison was all about lightly. Nor did any of us think that leaving that stadium would be easy and seamless transition. And there's probably been times when you kind of think, is the atmosphere going to be the same? Are they going to be. For example, the logistics, getting into new stadium, it's a whole different kind of fish, but they're not quite ironed out yet. There are sometimes issues for fans getting to and from games because of this unique location on Liverpool's iconic waterfront. And it really is, it's going to be such an asset for Everton, but there's been little, you know, like I say, little teething problems. But the most important thing is, and it sounds a little bit cliche and corny, but if you. If you'll bear with me, those Evertonians who were there for the last game this season and all last season, and dragged at times, dragged the club over the line and kept them afloat. You know, the 1878 Fang group with the banners and the flags, they're all still there. The generations of blues are still there. I haven't gone and been in the Hill Dickinson environment. I thought, this is all the corporate fans, it's day trippers, it's people filming corner kicks on their iPads. It's still Everton. It's still got that working class roots. It's not actually, as the crow flies all that far from Goodison park and it's in an area itself that is growing along with the stadium. Bars, restaurants, Everton themed this and that.
- [46:12]
Ayo Akimwaleere
It's quite industrial around there, isn't it?
- [46:14]
Leon Osman
Yeah, it is.
- [46:14]
Ayo Akimwaleere
I've seen the shops emerge slowly with the new stadium, which is so nice.
- [46:18]
Paddy Boylan
Yeah.
- [46:18]
Ayo Akimwaleere
And hotels as well, actually.
- [46:20]
Greg O'Keefe
Yeah, well, Precisely. But no, the atmosphere has been brilliant and there'll be more iconic moments as it builds its own identity, similar to Goodison. But I think it'll. I think everything will be okay. I think they've bypassed any West Ham fears, if you like.
- [46:34]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Paddy. What more does this stadium need to unlock? Is it European football? Because you know, this is a crown jewel for the Friedkin Group, you know, something to bring to this club in terms of ambition, desire and potentially future proofing this club.
- [46:46]
Paddy Boylan
Yeah, I think sustainability and self sufficiency is really quite important to the Freakin Group. Researching a piece over the last week on their first year at Everton, one of the things that consistently came back was this idea of the club washing its own face, being able to wash its own face. It's still loss making year on year, which is problematic from a PSR perspective. It'll be problematic from a squad cost ratio when that eventually comes in. They're going to have to be mindful and prudent in their spending there as well. So the idea, Farhad Mushiri, the old owner, his whole Everton project all those years ago was basically predicated on Everton getting into Europe early doors, increasing those revenues and then being able to spend more money on players. This kind of virtuous cycle where things improve year on year and snowball the Freakin Groups project is a little bit more thought through, I would argue, than what Moshiri was trying to do. But there is one similarity. There is that European football is going to be really important. They're obviously growing commercial revenues massively as it is. Gate receipts 13,000 more or less, extra seats and a lot more corporate capacity. They've got new partners, Budweiser and Pepsi. We've neverton have a soft drinks partner, which I thought was the domain of Manchester United, where you'd see.
- [48:12]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Don't say it. Corporate or not, mate, it is football. It is what it needs to be.
- [48:16]
Paddy Boylan
It is, it is. And I think the mindset is they have to eke out every penny and then reinvest that in the team and that's the way Everton will improve.
- [48:24]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Greg, before we go, I didn't know about this, but our producer guys dug it out of the archives because I'm thinking about the January transfer window and he actually spotted that on the Athletic. You were banned from press box at Goodison at the end of David Moyes first spelling charge for suggesting a big money center forward signing could have made the difference in a push for the top four. Look, I don't know if you're The Messiah or the oracle. But I feel like history is repeating itself right now. I feel like Everton could do with a big center forward and put their hands in their pockets to buy one.
- [48:58]
Greg O'Keefe
Look, it was ever thus. Seriously, the parallels as you just said, are just clear. David Moises last season, right, Everton finished sixth. They scored in the end 55 goals, they conceded 40. Moyes defensive acumen unchanged. Tottenham who finished fifth above them and qualified for Europe scored 66 goals, right? Everton's top scorer that season was effectively an attacking midfielder, Marijuana Fellay and he got 12 nil competitions. Tottenham's was Gareth Bale, 260 composition more than double that figure. David Moyes was hamstrung by lack of a center forward. He had strikers who contributed at times, you know, Andy Johnson, Yakubu, but generally speaking he didn't have that reliable big money sense forward. And I think when he'd moved on, I wrote a think piece that, you know, maybe if he'd had that player in the January window before he went, if the club had found the money to back him, it might have made a difference in keeping him then. The then chief executive Robert Elston was not, not particularly impressed by this. So he said, right, that's it, you're banned from the press box for the final game of Moises Reign. Credit to my sports editor at the time and a deputy sports editor. We just went and sat in the buns, robed our laptops on our knees and covered the game, nevertheless bought tickets. But look, this season again they scored 18. I think they're the joint third lowest goal scorers in the league for a team that's ninth. The team that we were talking about getting into the potential, into the top four before the weekend.
- [50:27]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Is it Dewsby hall the top scorer? Is he not a midfielder again? Is that what you're saying?
- [50:30]
Greg O'Keefe
Precisely. And we've said a lot of positive things about the Friedkin Group in this podcast, but I would challenge the structure they've brought in above David Moyes recruitment wise to up their game when it comes to January and the following and next summer in terms of finding players that can make that difference. Finding a goal scorer, it doesn't have to be a 2025 goal a season player. We'd love one. Even at 15, 12, 15 goal a season player would make a big difference. This.
- [50:56]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Really appreciate that gents, really great conversation on Everton. Greg, Paddy, appreciate your time and also Leon who joined us a little earlier as well. Thank you guys as well for listening. We'll be back soon.
- [51:10]
Athletic FC Host (Ayo Akimwaleere)
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beal. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Aid Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production. This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by LinkedIn. If you've ever hired for your small business, you know how important it is to find the right person. That's why LinkedIn Jobs is stepping things up with their new AI assistant, so you can feel confident you're finding top talent that you can't find anywhere else. The best part is those great candidates are already on LinkedIn. In fact, employees hired through LinkedIn are 30% more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor. And that's a big deal when every hire counts and hiring doesn't have to be complicated. With LinkedIn Jobs AI Assistant you can skip the confusing steps and recruiting jargon. It filters through applicants based on criteria you've set for your role and surfaces only the best matches so you're not stuck sorting through a mountain of resumes. Because when you have a business to run, you don't have hours to spend on hiring and you don't want to just wait around hoping the right person stumbles upon your job. That's why LinkedIn Jobs AI assistant suggests 25 great fit candidates daily so you can invite them to apply and keep things moving. So hire Wright the first time. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com athleticfc Then promote it to use LinkedIn Jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates. That's LinkedIn.com AthleticFC to boost your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.
- [53:01]
Omaha Steaks Advertiser
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- [53:21]
Greg O'Keefe
Alright, remember the machine knows if you're lying. First statement Carvana will give you a real offer on your car.
- [53:27]
Leon Osman
All online.
- [53:28]
Ayo Akimwaleere
False.
- [53:28]
Paddy Boylan
True.
- [53:29]
Ayo Akimwaleere
Actually you sell your car and minutes.
- [53:31]
Greg O'Keefe
False. That's gotta be true again. Carvana will pick up your car from your door or you can drop it.
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Ayo Akimwaleere
Off at one of their car vending.
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Athletic FC Host (Ayo Akimwaleere)
Machines sounds too good to be true.
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Greg O'Keefe
So true. Finally caught on.
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Paddy Boylan
Nice job.
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Greg O'Keefe
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