Are Liverpool still the team to beat?

Summary

Summary of "Are Liverpool Still the Team to Beat?" - The Athletic FC Podcast

Release Date: August 11, 2025
Hosts: Ayo Akimolene, Adam Crafton
Guests: Simon Hughes, David Archuleta

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Are Liverpool Still the Team to Beat?," The Athletic FC Podcast delves deep into the current state of Liverpool FC as they navigate a tumultuous transfer window and prepare to defend their Premier League title. Hosted by Ayo Akimolene and Adam Crafton, the discussion is enriched by insights from football analyst Simon Hughes and special guest David Archuleta.

Liverpool's Performance in the Community Shield

Community Shield Match Overview
Liverpool, the reigning Premier League champions, faced off against Crystal Palace in the Community Shield. The match ended in a loss for Liverpool, sparking immediate questions about the team's readiness to defend their title.

Simon Hughes on Team Structure
Simon Hughes provides a critical analysis of Liverpool's performance:

“I think the performances of the players individually, each one of them was pretty encouraging. The problem was the structure of the team really. So at this stage of the preparations for the season you'd be hoping for a little bit more cohesion.” ([03:30])

Hughes highlights that despite strong individual performances, Liverpool struggled with team cohesion due to numerous personnel and positional changes over the summer. Players like Florian Vertz and Johann Frimpong showed promise but were still adapting to new roles and systems.

David Archuleta's Take on Crystal Palace
David Archuleta counterbalances the criticism by praising Crystal Palace's execution:

“By the end of the 90 minutes, I thought they were probably the better team. They finished the game stronger. They sort of stayed in it, exposed the weaknesses that are sort of in this kind of lack of cohesiveness at Liverpool.” ([04:33])

Archuleta emphasizes Palace's stability, attributing their success to minimal squad changes, which fostered better team understanding and performance on the day.

Liverpool's Transfer Window: Big Signings and Expectations

Massive Summer Transfers
Liverpool's transfer activity has been the most significant since 2014, with high-profile signings like Wirt Ekhatike and Frimpong Kirkes. The club has invested heavily, spending approximately £200 million, with discussions hinting at an additional £200 million needed to solidify the squad.

Pressure of High-Profile Signings
Simon Hughes discusses the pressure exerted by Liverpool's ambitious signings:

“These are players that maybe Liverpool haven't targeted in the past. They've been out of their reach to some extent in terms of the cost and the spending that they made to the players.” ([05:17])

The expectation is that these new talents will quickly integrate and perform, given their quality and the financial commitment from the club.

Adaptation Challenges
Hughes notes the challenges these players face in adapting to Liverpool's system:

“Frimpong ... didn't seem to know when to go forwards. He chose reasonably well. But he's used to playing as a wing back or as a winger where he's playing as a fullback for Liverpool. So that's going to take a bit of time.” ([07:29])

Similarly, Wirt Ekhatike is adjusting to a new role:

“Wirt actually played the system ... as a number 10. So he is adjusting to that as well.” ([07:29])

Tactical Adjustments and Team Dynamics

Changing Roles and Pressing Strategy
David Archuleta addresses tactical shifts, particularly in Liverpool's fullback positions:

“I actually thought yesterday ... Trent Alexander Arnold ... ability to just switch the play, the ability to put his foot on the ball and dictate the game ... that kind of ability to just switch the play.” ([09:25])

He expresses concern over the balance in the team, noting that having two aggressive fullbacks may put additional pressure on central midfielders to maintain control and dictate the game.

Simon Hughes on Versatility and Pressing
Simon Hughes provides a counterpoint, highlighting positive aspects despite early setbacks:

“His touches were ... his assist for the first goal ... it was the sort of pass that maybe Liverpool midfield player last season would have made.” ([10:58])

Hughes remains optimistic about the long-term potential of the new signings, believing that technical proficiency combined with hard work will lead to eventual cohesion and success.

Financial Implications and Future Signings

Spending Balance and Future Investments
The discussion shifts to the financial strategies behind Liverpool's spending:

“Liverpool have spent a lot of money this summer, ... sixth in the Premier League based on what they've recouped as well.” ([15:54])

Simon Hughes explains that while Liverpool's expenditure is substantial, it's balanced compared to other top Premier League clubs like Manchester United, Arsenal, and Manchester City.

Need for Additional Strikers and Defensive Reinforcements
Both Hughes and Archuleta agree that Liverpool may need to bolster their attacking options:

Archuleta: “I sort of came away from it thinking probably a holding midfielder would be useful and also another centre back.” ([17:06])

Hughes: “I do think that they need another striker because it's purely down to numbers.” ([18:46])

The departure of key players like Darwin Nunez and Diogo Jota underscores the necessity for Liverpool to strengthen their forward line and defensive backline to remain competitive.

Emotional and Fan Impact

Tragic Loss of Diogo Jota
The episode also touches on the emotional toll of Diogo Jota's untimely passing:

“For a lot of people in Liverpool and Liverpool supporters, it's just still hard to process... It certainly hasn't been a summer anybody expected.” ([25:20])

Simon Hughes elaborates on the profound impact this tragedy has had on the team and fanbase, highlighting the challenges of maintaining focus and morale during such difficult times.

Rival Analysis: Arsenal, Manchester City, and Chelsea

Arsenal's Title Aspirations
James McNicholas joins the conversation to discuss Arsenal's potential:

“Can Mikel Arteta take the final step in his evolution as a manager? Can he change?” ([28:24])

The focus is on Arsenal's recent transfer activities and whether their new signings, including Noni Madueke and Martin Zubamendi, will finally propel them to Premier League champions.

Manchester City's Legal Troubles and Performance
The podcast briefly touches on Manchester City's ongoing legal issues:

“Is it strange and awkward that we're starting the season not knowing how that's moved on?” ([36:03])

David Archuleta explains the uncertainty surrounding the case, noting that the Premier League continues to grapple with governance challenges as legal battles persist.

Chelsea's Squad and Future Prospects
Chelsea's recent performances and squad adjustments are also examined:

“I think they are looking better and better... they are really strong, but they may just be one year, one season away from it rather than this season.” ([43:29])

Simon Hughes praises the signing of Joao Pedro as a pivotal move for Chelsea, suggesting that while the squad is improving, key areas like goalkeeping and defense still need reinforcement.

Season Outlook and Predictions

Liverpool's Title Defense Viability
Adam Crafton summarizes the key points regarding Liverpool's chances:

“But I don't see Arsenal slipping away over the next couple of years... I think Arsenal, Liverpool above City this season because I don't think the players City have signed are quite on the level of the players that they replaced.” ([32:14])

The consensus is that Liverpool remains a formidable contender, provided they overcome early-season challenges and integrate their new signings effectively.

Arsenal's Potential Breakthrough
With improvements in their midfield and attack, Arsenal is poised for a potential breakthrough under Mikel Arteta. The key will be maintaining consistency and minimizing defensive lapses that plagued them last season.

Manchester City and Chelsea's Paths to Success
Manchester City's legal woes and Chelsea's ongoing squad enhancements suggest that while both clubs are strong, their paths to immediate success may face obstacles, positioning Liverpool and Arsenal at the forefront of title contention.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a balanced perspective on the Premier League's dynamic landscape. While Liverpool faces significant challenges in defending their title amidst substantial squad changes and emotional setbacks, other top contenders like Arsenal, Manchester City, and Chelsea are also navigating their own complexities. The Athletic FC Podcast underscores the unpredictability of the season, emphasizing the importance of team cohesion, strategic signings, and managerial prowess in determining the ultimate champions.

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Notable Quotes:

• Simon Hughes ([03:30]): “I think the performances of the players individually... the structure of the team really. [...] they're sort of getting used to those changes.”

• David Archuleta ([04:33]): “By the end of the 90 minutes, I thought they were probably the better team... everyone understood what the coach wanted to do.”

• Simon Hughes ([05:17]): “These are players that maybe Liverpool haven't targeted in the past... the pressure comes from the quality and profile of the player.”

• David Archuleta ([09:25]): “Trent Alexander Arnold’s ability to switch the play and dictate the game... that’s where Liverpool might struggle.”

• Simon Hughes ([15:54]): “Liverpool have spent a lot of money this summer... but only the expectation rises a bit.”

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This comprehensive analysis provides listeners with an in-depth understanding of Liverpool's current form, transfer strategies, and the broader competitive environment of the Premier League, making it an essential listen for football enthusiasts aiming to stay informed about the season's unfolding narratives.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

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[Simon Hughes]

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[Simon Hughes]

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[Ayok Akimolene]

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[Adam Crafton]

The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayok Akimolene. Title holders Liverpool have been the talk of the transfer window but couldn't claim name the Community Shield against Crystal Palace. So are they ready to defend their title? So ahead of the new Premier League season this week we'll be focusing on a number of key themes and we start with a look at the champions Liverpool. So let's get into this. We've got Adam Crafton. We've also got Simon Hughes who was at Wembley on Sunday for the Community Shield. Right Simon, We've been waiting for it. Liverpool have made some massive signings. Wirt Ekatike, Frimpong Kirkes. What did we learn from the match over the weekend?

[Simon Hughes]

I think the performances of the players individually, each one of them was pretty encouraging. The problem was the structure of the team really. So at this stage of the preparations for the season you'd be hoping for a little bit more cohesion. But I think Liverpool got caught on a number of occasions because the personnel on the team has changed and the functions of those positions have changed and they're sort of just getting used to those changes. But certainly, I mean Florian Vert I thought the first half was outstanding. Just a few touches of the ball here and there bringing other people into play. But I think the number of changes that Liverpool have made over the summer has impacted obviously some of the long standing players that they've had as well. So you could tell that this is not a team that's used to playing with each other I think yesterday and that that contributed towards the outcome in the.

[Adam Crafton]

Yeah, we're going to go on and talk about Liverpool, Adam, but I mean you've got to give some credit to Crystal Palace. Back to back wins at Wembley. I know many people might think the Charity Shield or the Community Shield isn't that important but for them, come on, that's another trophy in the bag.

[David Archuleta]

Yeah, and I thought they deserved it actually by the end, by the end of the 90 minutes I thought they were probably the better team. They finished the game stronger. They sort of stayed in it, exposed the weaknesses that are sort of in this kind of lack of cohesiveness at Liverpool. And I think the fact palace actually haven't signed that many players probably played into their hands because it meant everyone knew what they were doing and everyone understood what the coach wanted to do. So it was, it was almost like a team that was very finished compared to a team that is perhaps just starting out a little bit.

[Adam Crafton]

Simon as for Liverpool and we'll talk much about the spending in just a second but how much did I guess the pressure of delivering increase given just how much they have actually spent this summer? Because everyone wants to see it click but this is going to take some time surely.

[Simon Hughes]

I think the pressure comes more from actually the quality and profile of the player that these signs rather than the actual money that they spent. I mean I think we'll get into the figures shortly because economically what they've done in terms of buying and selling more or less adds up really based on you know, sort of the position of the club financially. So I can understand the conversation around it when you make you know, 100 million pound signings and Hugo Akatike 70 million pounds not even guaranteed to be a starter if Alexander Isaac signed. So they're really eye catching for those reasons. But these are players that maybe Liverpool haven't targeted in the past. They've been out of their reach to some extent in terms of the, the cost and the spending that the or the financial commitment that they made to the players. So I just think that you know these are players that you'd expect to sort of to click pretty soon because of the age profile, because of the experience where they come from and that that's where the pressure comes from really. I mean I didn't expect them to bounce into the, to the season performing, you know, in a way that you think oh God, they're going to run away with the league. Because Liverpool over a long period of time being a team that hasn't changed that much has been maybe two changes every two summers really there hasn't been a massive revolution of players whereas this has been the biggest summer of change possibly since 2014. Albeit you know that that summer they didn't buy well at all. I think that the players that they've signed this summer will, will come good. But as without anything it does take time. And I think that Florian Vertz Frimpong I would say maybe caught the eye the most the first half but even they're playing in a different system to what they're used to at Leverkusen. Frimpong I think sometimes didn't seem to know when to go forwards. He chose reasonably well. But you Know he's used to playing as a wing back or as a winger where he's playing as a fullback for Liverpool. So that's going to take a bit of time. Meanwhile, Wirt actually played the system, the Crystal palace played by A Leverkusen as a number 10. So he is adjusting to that as well. So that it is going to take a bit of time. I wasn't overly concerned but by the same token, last season Liverpool did look prepared for the season when they started the campaign and they don't this season. So that should give the clubs that are trying to compete with them a bit of encouragement, I'd say.

[Adam Crafton]

Yeah. I mean you buy that, Adam. They don't look ready to compete, but you can also understand that. I think on a slot even said it recently, you know the amount of changes they've made in the summer, considering they haven't made so many changes over the last couple of years could be a mitigation to that.

[David Archuleta]

I actually thought yesterday watching them and he's kind of someone that everyone's just forgotten about because Liverpool have signed so many big players. I thought yesterday they really missed on the ball Trent Alexander Arnold. In terms of the control that he. He can give at certain periods and games. I think it's going to be a big change for Liverpool to have two fullbacks that are constantly bombing on and not having that little bit of balance where one is a little bit more moving into midfield, a little bit more in control of the game. I think is going to have a bigger impact actually. Not just from a kind of creating goals point of view, which is what I think most people think of with Alexander Arnold, but just that, that ability to just switch the play, the ability to put his foot on the ball and dictate the game for a couple of minutes. I think that's going to be where Liverpool just struggle to adapt slightly. I think it puts more pressure on some of their central midfielders to dictate the game in a way that we've not always seen them be completely able to do. And the other thing with Wirt and this, I hope this isn't an unfair take on him. When I think of the way Liverpool have played over the last few years and I know it's changed slightly under Slot where he's been a bit more possession based, a little bit less direct than it was under Klopp. To me he looks like a Manchester City player playing for Liverpool. When I watch him, based on the sort of first few bits that I've seen of him which is one of those players that's like. Almost like a David Silva, Bernardo Silva, very intricate between the lines. And I'm fascinated to see how that fits in with Liverpool because I still think Liverpool are at their most exciting and dynamic when they are that little bit more direct. And I'm not sure he's that kind of player. Now they have to adapt because he's a huge expensive signing and they have to make it work. But I don't know Si.

[Simon Hughes]

Is that very unfair based on the performance yesterday? It's fair because yesterday he didn't really run with the ball. His pressing wasn't a feature of the game, but I think his touches were. And you know, his assist for the, for the first goal, you know, it was the sort of pass that maybe Liverpool, no Liverpool midfield player last season would have made. Dominik Szoboszlai I thought last season did a very good job leading the press but certainly in terms of goals and assists you may be expecting a bit more from essentially your number 10. And obviously with Liverpool becoming champions, it just becomes harder again. You know, I think that they see Florian Vert as somebody who will. Press didn't do so much of it yesterday. It's only early days and him getting understanding, getting an understanding of what Liverpool's press is because people talk about this press like it's a. You know, there's just one way of doing it. Managers will ask players to do very different things in different systems. So I think that will come from what I've been told. You know, people who've watched him closely in Germany say that he's. Yeah, he's a very technical player but he's a very hard worker as well. He didn't see so much of that yesterday. But I think, I think that the encouraging signs, the little sort of touches, the little passes, the little threads of passes that you, you sort of think in a few months time once he's got up to speed with the Premier League, with the system that he's playing in, you know, it's pretty exciting. I would say he tired quite quickly at Wembley yesterday. So that's another challenge as well, you know that the Premier League does demand a lot.

[David Archuleta]

There was a 15 minute period, I think just before half time where he ran the game. But then second half, as you say, he just sort of tired and palace really just sort of took over the.

[Simon Hughes]

Thing that maybe hasn't been spoken about that much. I think since the game there's been a lot of focus on the fullbacks, understandably. I mean I actually thought Kirk has yesterday we didn't see so much of him getting forward certainly in the second half. I mean as you say I think palace played very very well. Their system is very very hard to break down. You know very solid and he will counter attack quickly. I thought the fullback on the right side Munoz had a really good game again he always affects the game and he's a real out left for them. And Liverpool struggled to stop him a lot of the time Cody Gapo was having to play almost as a fullback to and and Kaz would tuck in field to take the second number 10 if you like. But yesterday Liverpool's two holding midfielders were different to what they ended with last season and the real base of Liverpool's team last season I I thought was was Ryan Gravenberg and Alexis Mallister consistently playing with one another throughout the course of the season. Obviously they didn't play yesterday so I think we, we probably get a clearer picture with Liverpool aware Liverpool are at when those two get back together again because Dominic's obviously it's going to be really interesting for him because as I say I think he did a really good job in terms of the work rate last year but you probably want a bit more from him. I don't think he gets in front of the two guys who are behind him and if anything actually thought yesterday he suddenly thought oh Florian Verta making these nice little passes I'm going to try and start doing some of that and kept on giving the ball away. And that was a real problem for Liverpool because it gave Palace a lot of encouragement that they could actually, you know, put them under pressure.

[David Archuleta]

So in summary Liverpool have what spent 200 million so far what they need to spend another 200 mil to get to get close.

[Adam Crafton]

All right Adam, hold that thought because they are spending a lot of money. Next let's talk about what might be still to come.

[Ayok Akimolene]

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[David Archuleta]

Listen up.

[Simon Hughes]

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[Ayok Akimolene]

Fine.

[Simon Hughes]

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[Adam Crafton]

Yes Simon, we've got to come to you on this one. Adams has been talking about the money they've spent, but actually probably need to spend a bit more. Where do you think those signings need to come?

[Simon Hughes]

Liverpool have spent a lot of money this summer, of course, but in terms of, you know, the balance of spending, they're actually sixth in the Premier League based on, you know, what they've recouped as well. I should just add right at the Top of that list is Manchester United who haven't really brought much back in other than saving money on you know the, the wages from Marcus Rashford, Arsenal, Man City, Tottenham. You know in terms of the balance sheet I've spent a lot more than Liverpool so I can understand why though obviously the focus is on Liverpool just because it's not, they're not a club really that sort of leads the markets very often that they're usually sort of second or third if that makes sense. You know that they've had the most eye catching summer despite those figures. You know with the players that they're bringing in. Very ambitious. So you know it's only right, you know that the expectation rises a bit. You know they're having a real go there doing spending 70 million on a, on a striker who's not even necessarily guaranteed to start games although he's a, he did play. I thought he had an encouraging debut yesterday.

[David Archuleta]

I didn't watch yesterday thinking they need, they need to spend 150 million on a striker. I sort of came away, I came away from it thinking probably a holding midfielder would be useful and also another centre back.

[Simon Hughes]

A lot depends on Virgil van Dijk at Liverpool. It always does. And Virgil van Dijk unfortunately had spent five days ill in bed I believe made a very uncharacteristic mistake for the penalty. I mean I couldn't believe it to be honest. It's the sort of mistake that you know, you'd see junior level football just hanging a leg out and giving the player the chance to go down. So Ifanzijk performs better yesterday. I think Liverpool probably end up winning the game to be honest. He's still that good and still that important. But Liverpool's success certainly from a defensive point of view sort of hangs on his availability. They've sold Jarrell Quanza for a lot of money. They've got good money for him and I can understand the focus on it because Joe Gomez his injury record is bad. Obviously Konates situation looks like it's going to unravel next summer and he'll go elsewhere. But the reality is Jal Kwanda didn't play that much for Liverpool last season. If you keep Van Dijk fit you're probably going to be okay. But it's just whether Liverpool have a problem with Van Dijk at some point I think that it then obviously becomes a problem. I do think that they need another striker to be honest because it's purely down to numbers. I mean they've obviously sold Darwin Nunez for a lot of money. They haven't recouped all the money that they got that they spent on them three years ago. But they have recouped a decent figure for somebody who hasn't done that well for the club. And obviously sadly Diogo Joss is no longer with us. So the two strikers down, they brought one in in Akatike and Diaz is left as well in that, in that time. So I do think that they actually need another striker because Liverpool strength last season, a lot of it that they add more forwards than most of the competition and I think, I think it really helped them over the course of the season.

[David Archuleta]

When you say Canate's situation will unravel next summer, is that Real Madrid?

[Simon Hughes]

It looks like it, doesn't it? I mean he hasn't signed a contract, he's had offers to stay. It just feels quite ominous, doesn't it? That's not said with any I guess level of certainty but it sort of feels it's going that way. I mean it from Liverpool's perspective. Bearing in mind Mark Gay, he is available next summer. It would not be a surprise if there was a swap there, you know with Gay coming in and Canate going out and you haven't really lost any money there, you know, it makes a lot of financial sense. I mean yesterday I've never seen this. I've got to say, you know, Steve Parish after the game apparently in the, in the, the mixone giving interviews, almost encouraging people to make a bid for him this summer. He's the captain, just played very, very well. The only question mark I have with him in relation to Liverpool is that you know, he's a left sided center half. So where does that leave Virgil van Dijk because that's his position, you know. So the balance might be a little bit off if he, if he comes in because he's not going to displace van Dijk, you'd assume he'd remain the number one center half. And I mean in an ideal world you'd want both. But my priority would be the striker. Albeit knowing that there's a risk going into the season with one player down in, in the defensive areas.

[Adam Crafton]

That's interesting. If I put that to you Adam, if you were Liverpool right now, who would you go for? A centre back or a striker do you think is most pending for this team?

[David Archuleta]

I think just as says with the numbers, they definitely need a forward. I'm not sure they need a forward of the level of Isaac and I'm also not sure whether they need center forward. I Wonder actually whether they need someone who kind of more naturally plays from the left side a bit like, you know, a Diaz Amane kind of player. I'm really interested to see how when it's all said and done he does get Ekatike and Isaac in the same team. Because I think they do probably both want to be the center forward and it will look a bit strange. And then Jamie Carragher said it the other day, like the idea of having, you know, someone that Liverpool worked very, very hard to beat Newcastle to get Ekhetike through the door and it wasn't just Newcastle, you know, Man United were in for him as well. So that will be interesting. So I get the sense that Isaac is someone who's going to want to be rotated between big Premier League and Champions League games. And I'm not sure that either of them will naturally want to be kind of accommodating, you know, the other by. By playing from the left. So that is going to be a challenge for Honestly I do know that when Liverpool were recruiting for a head coach last summer when Jurgen Klopp left, one of the things that they really did factor in with slot was the amount of churn and change that he experienced in in his first summers final where there was a big turnover of players and they, you know, Liverpool I think knew for much of last season that there was obviously this big risk of losing Trent Alexander Arnold, that the forward line was going to have to be revamped and I think Slot's ability to handle change I think played into him becoming the Liverpool manager and now we have to see his ability to make that happen.

[Adam Crafton]

Yeah, I mean the dream is Isak and Nikitike together, Simon. But the reality can be quite challenging. As Adam points out, that's always been my head scratcher. On a previous podcast I said Liverpool greedy going for Isak because I just don't know if Liverpool need a player of that stature considering the kind of money they've already spent. What are your thoughts on if he does come through and the dream does happen? How would they play together?

[Simon Hughes]

Well, I think Isaac would be. He'd take the number nine shirt but.

[Adam Crafton]

You'Ve just spent 79 million quid and some land who just come in.

[Simon Hughes]

Well, I think maybe some of the thought process behind it is Isaac's injury records and also why would you spend.

[David Archuleta]

150 million if you're concerned about an injury record?

[Adam Crafton]

Good point.

[Simon Hughes]

It's a good question. I mean Liverpool always look at everything in terms of the numbers, don't they? So they may have calculated that Isaac, if he can get him playing 80% of the games, it guarantees you 20, 25 goals, which is going to put you in a good position at the end of the season. Meanwhile, Eka TK I would not be surprised in terms of the framing around this. Ekhetike may play off the left occasionally because it's actually going to be a really big season for Cody Gakpo because it's his position now though I can't see changing the shape of his team, the 4, 2, 3, 1. I can see him tweaking the functions of certain roles within that team. He's come out and said, hasn't he, that he wants Liverpool to be more expansive this season. He I think will eventually deliver quite a technically intricate team which is maybe more sophisticated than we saw last season when he actually just wanted the fullbacks to do the jobs properly really. And I think as time goes on he'll be asking more of the fullbacks, more of the number 10 to do, to do things slightly differently, more of the wide players. And it'll evolve, it has to evolve because otherwise the other teams catch up with you and figure out and find out ways of stopping you. So I don't see the shape of the team changing at all, but I do see the roles in the team changing and Liverpool have been very clear on, you know, the left sided position. They signed Rio and Gamoa, you know, moved a lot of things around to get him into the club, you know, from Chelsea. You know, Chelsea are at a time where they're signing all the best young talents in the world. You know, they've let one slip through really to arrival and they feel that if they sign another left winger that will block his path. He's only 16, but I can understand that logic. So if you're thinking, well, got Ekatike, you've got Gakpo, you've got Ngomoa who can play that role, you probably fill in that space. Which leaves, I still feel that you need that number nine as you say, Adam, it's a lot of money, you know, that they spend and for somebody who might not necessarily play every single game, but if he scores between 20, 25 goals a season, he will, it will inevitably put Liverpool in a good position because Darwin Nunes wasn't really able to do that. Diogo Jota last season delivered important moments but didn't actually score that many goals and was injured quite a lot. So if you can get those two players getting between 10, 15, 20 each, you know, it's going to help Liverpool a lot. But I just think it's going to take. It will take time for all that to settle down because there's a lot of moving parts, isn't there? Almost every area of the team seems to be changing.

[Adam Crafton]

Okay, I just want to mention something really quickly. You did mention Diogo Jota and you know, it's been quite the summer for Liverpool and Liverpool fans in general. The passing of Jota and his brother Andre Silva. Simon, you've written about this on the Athletic and I guess it's. It's probably quite difficult to quantify just how this will affect this team moving forward. And also the fan base itself.

[Simon Hughes]

It's first and foremost, I guess the players that I think of because they were closer to him than anyone, you know, guess seeing him on a regular basis. It's still quite strange, you know, to see the Liverpool team walk out without him being there. I sometimes wonder, you know, the effect of singing his name all the time. Although, you know, it's done for good reasons. And I don't know if I was a player I sometimes think, you know, I find it quite distracting and maybe upsetting that I don't realize that that player's no longer, you know, on the pitch with me. But I just think it's still very hard to sort. And I know the way the world is now, you know, bad things happen and people move on very quickly, don't they? And it's like, oh well, that's yesterday's news. It's like high profile player. Why does that matter so much? But I just think for a lot of people in Liverpool and Liverpool supporters, it's just still hard to process, you know, the image of him wheeling his scarf around his head running towards the cop one week and then a few weeks later haven't got married in the middle of all that and won the Nations League with Portugal. It's not hard to envisage him as a World cup winner this time next year. And then you unfortunately see the image of the car and it's just really, really hard. And I, you know, I, I understand why people say, oh well, you know, people pass away all the time, all the footballers have passed away. But you know, every circumstance is different, every set of circumstances difference. Just, you know, because the ending is the same, it doesn't mean that everybody should react the same. So I think supporters are still processing it really. But with all the transfers that have happened it sort of almost feels like he's been, he's just moved on at the moment a little bit, but yeah, I mean, football is relentless, isn't it? And the seasons are starting next week and Liverpool, after a good victory, I think. I think it will help people move on with their lives. But it certainly hasn't been a summer anybody expected. You know, when you, when you think how the season finished, the victory over Spares, that's when it really finished, really, because he won the league. To have the parade incidents and then. And then Diogo Jota, it's just unimaginable. Like, nobody would have thought that that was. No, nobody would have ever begin to even think of these events happening in front of them. So it hasn't been a. I wouldn't say it's been a glorious summer that everybody was expecting, but yeah, soon enough they'll be in the throw of games and celebrating goals. And how do you think that helps the process of coming to terms with it? To some extent.

[Adam Crafton]

Okay, well, let's move on from Liverpool and look at their rivals this season. Arsenal finished second for the third season in a row last time out. Here's James McNicholas, the athletics Arsenal writer, on whether Arsenal are ready to finally deliver the title.

[James McNicholas]

Are they ready? Well, they've certainly got to be close. This is Mikel Arteta's sixth season as Arsenal manager. There's been a remedial dimension, I would say, to their transfer activity this summer. You know, everybody said they needed enough number nine. They've gone out and got one Invictor Yokerez. They lost Picayo Saka last season and that really hurt them. So what have they done? They've gone out and bought Noni Madawake, a player who they believe can offer them some cover in that situation, can rotate with Saka, hopefully protect him a bit more, as well as providing an option on the left. The major surgery in the team has arguably happened at holding midfield. That's where they lost Thomas Partey and Jorginho, who were both out of contract. They brought in Christian Norgaard from Brentford and then Martin Zubamendi, who I think is an upgrade, frankly, on anything they've had in that position in recent years. So that should take the team forward. I think the final question really is, can Mikel Arteta take the final step in his evolution as a manager? Can he change? And I think he may need to. I think he may need to. If you look at Arsenal last season, too many draws. They need to win games and that may involve Mike Arteta maybe loosening the reins at times, unlocking the potential of Jocherez finding a role for efficient players like Ranieri or Madueke. Maybe not from the start, but maybe later in games. That will be a really fascinating narrative. You know, can he. This be the season in which he. Not just Arsenal, but Mikel Arteta take that step from perennial runners up to Premier League winners.

[David Archuleta]

Yeah.

[Adam Crafton]

James referencing Arsenal, bringing in Victor Yokares. They've been waiting for a number nine. And also Martin Zubimendi on a piece on the Athletic, which landed today. Actually, Adam, you've tipped Arsenal to win the League. I mean, what's the logic here? I mean, I want to believe you.

[David Archuleta]

The logic is it's just about time. I think sometimes is as much about that as anything else. I also just look at their summer business and they seem to have filled at least the obvious gaps that they had in the squad. You know, two new central midfielders. So I think you now look at them in central midfield and they look pretty solid and tough to play against. The center forward issue that. I mean, of course they've still signed a defender because Mikel will always sign another defender if he possibly can. They've got a goalkeeper that's good enough. I think that's probably the difference between them and Chelsea, that you actually have a goalkeeper that I think is good enough to win the League. So I just look at them and think if the center forward works, a lot hinges on him. But if that works, then, then I do think they're good enough. I found last year that Arsenal were very. I thought they were sloppy in games where they. Where they shouldn't have been. You know, there was a lot of, like, blaming of. Of other things, whether it was, you know, red cards here or a decision here or. They've got to get out of that mindset this year. They can't start the season like they did last year, where it was like the world had fallen in because Declan Rice was sent off against Brighton after, you know, two or three games. And I don't think that mindset ever really shifted. It was almost like there was always someone. Someone or something out to get them in some way. And I think they just have to be better, you know, they have to be better at taking chances and they have to be better at keeping clean sheets as well. And. And if they do that, and I think I'd still think Arsenal's highest level is higher as a team than any other team in the League when they're really on it. So we have to see that week in, week out, and if they don't do it this year then I kind of struggle to see what the next evolution is for this set of players under Arteta.

[Adam Crafton]

Adam makes a good point, Simon. Mikel Arteta's only trophy really. I mean other than the community Shield. It's the FA cup in 2020. Look, the board have backed him. He's clearly got the players that he wants and this team has gone through various evolutions. Is this a make or break season?

[Simon Hughes]

I still don't think it is. I mean I think a lot of the pressure on managers does it comes from the supporters and how the Arsenal fans feel about him. And the Arsenal supporters that I speak to are pretty happy with the job that he's done. You know, I know that the frustrated he hasn't got them there but he's more or less in the conversation every year. He's not that far away. Yes he spends a lot of money but I actually think what will determine who wins the league is who keeps the key players fit. It's as simple as that. And Liverpool for example last season they did have injuries to players like Alisson missed quite a big chunk of the season. But Liverpool at Virgil van Dijk fit more or less all the season. Salah fit all the season. Arsenal had some of their key players as James mentioned, not available to them and I think that costs them ultimately. So you know, just as Liverpool suffered over in several sea or in some seasons when Jurgen Klopp was the manager due to the, you know, the injury records, I think if they keep the players fit certainly the key players just gives them a much better chance. And I don't see Arsenal slipping away over the next couple of years. You can just see them building slowly sometimes. You know, it has taken a long time to sort of a lot a longer time than people would have liked. But you know, not so long ago Arsenal were a bit of a joke, weren't they? And they're not now. They're a serious club who you'd expect to be in, in the mix. For me it's, it's still between you know, Arsenal, Liverpool or Man City but it's actually put Arsenal Liverpool above City this season because I don't think the players City have signed or quite on the level of the players that they replaced and I think it's going to take them time to still adjust as well. You know the, the players that they signed in January just don't think are quite at that, that level of you know, obviously de Bruyne very hard to replace him, isn't it? But a world class player over a long time. Gundogan again, a very influential player. I'm just not quite sure that they're quite at that level and if they are, it's going to take them a bit of time to get there. Whereas Arsenal, you're expecting Jocherez to come in and really hit the ground running given how much he spent on him, given his age profile, if he does prove to be a good sign and it's just going to give him a really good chance, I'd actually say Gurcares is probably the player, the signing of the summer who's under the most pressure because of the conversation around Arsenal for such a long time about the striker and not having one and now they have one and now they sold all the shirts, the number 14 shirts, all those things. He's the last piece of the jigsaw. So he is the player. I think despite all the money that Liverpool have signs that has to do well. Really can't afford not to mind games.

[David Archuleta]

Mind games.

[Simon Hughes]

I don't think Method Lastetta cares what I think, to be honest.

[Adam Crafton]

I don't know, man. You talk about the fan base, Simon. This is a very emotionally, how can I put it? Volatile fan base at times and I just think that those first few games will really tell us to how the rhetoric of the season might go, as Adam sort of pointed out. Right, let's move on because we still need to talk about Manchester City, which we've touched on. Chelsea, can they stop Liverpool?

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[Adam Crafton]

So we've spoken about Liverpool and Arsenal spending. Both Manchester City and Chelsea have spent more than £150 million this summer. Adam Simon's referenced City already. We need to talk about the 115 charges. Still yet to know what's going on with that. Is it strange and awkward that we're starting the season not knowing how that's moved on?

[David Archuleta]

No, because it's the same as it has been for five years, six years.

[Adam Crafton]

It feels like we're just back here again.

[David Archuleta]

Yeah. And the reality is, every so often you'll see these stories written that a verdict's due in two weeks, a verdict's due in three weeks, result in two months time. The reality is nobody knows, except for the three judges who are working on this case. An incredibly small amount of people actually know where this is heading at the moment. You know, to the extent where I was with the Premier League during the, the summer series tournament in the States, and they were basically on standby to be called home if this suddenly broke out. You know, because you had Richard Masters, the CEO, out there and they, they don't know what's, what is going to happen. And I think there's a lot of kind of speculation within football about, you know, this could happen, this could happen. I think what we are increasingly seeing, not just in football, but also in sport at the moment, which is this real pattern of when football regulations and football governance is tested at the highest possible level in the courts, sporting governance is finding it really hard to get the result that it necessarily wants. I don't really want to sort of get into specific cases because it is also legally sensitive. I think organizations that have thought themselves to be on pretty solid ground in terms of the cases that they're bringing, are finding it really hard when you have a sort of a team of lawyers working against rules that have basically been designed from a sporting point of view for people to go into in the spirit of and to follow. And when those rules are kind of pushed to their limits in any way whatsoever, when they are then tested in court, I think it's really hard for these sporting organizations to get the results they want. And I think that is a, a fear that is possibly developing within the Premier League. So I think on parts of it, like non cooperation, which is one of the things Man City are accused of, I think there's a lot of confidence within the Premier League, but in terms of those More serious charges that that would really potentially end people's careers. A lot of, you know, major companies. I think there's maybe a little bit less optimism.

[Adam Crafton]

Simon, just before I was starting the podcast, I read something that Diddy Haman basically said he doesn't think that Manchester City will win major trophy under Pep Guardiola, which I thought was absolutely insane. What do you think to that?

[Simon Hughes]

I've got to be honest, I did not expect you to reference Diddy Haman.

[Adam Crafton]

The legendary.

[Simon Hughes]

Is. Yeah, yeah, I didn't see it. Mind you, he's a former Manchester City player, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, I see. Yeah, yeah, he'll never. Sorry, he'll never win a trophy at City again.

[Adam Crafton]

Not a major trophy at Manchester City because he's been. He says he's been there for 10 years or so.

[Simon Hughes]

You know what I mean? He's made so many changes. City as a club have made a lot of changes over the last six months and he's made changes to his backroom staff. When I see a manager who's been at a club for a long time and suddenly he just cuts a lot of people, I always get a little bit worried for that manager because clearly he's not happy with a lot of things and clearly he sees everybody else as the problem and not himself. So he has quite a bold thing to say, I guess, because obviously Pap Guardiola's is the greatest, one of the greatest manager of the. Of the 20th, 21st century. Sorry, but will he win another trophy? I think he will win one more trophy. Yeah. But I just. I just don't think it'll be the Premier League this year. I don't think so. And, and whether that, whether that is enough to satisfy him, I suspect it might not be. Unless it was the Champions League, of course, which I'm sure he'd be delighted to win again. But yeah, I think the Premier League might be bit a. A bit beyond them this season. I just. A lot of train at City. We'd spoken about the chain at Liverpool and various other clubs. Argley, Arsenal, probably the. Maybe the best place club in terms of the ones at the top, in terms of retaining a bit of consistency, adding to it without changing a great deal. But then, you know, I read a lot about Arsenal becoming much more of a direct football team. So, yeah, going to be very interesting season. I can't really. Very hard to predict how it ends, I think.

[Adam Crafton]

What about Chelsea, Adam? What were you thinking after the cold World Cup?

[David Archuleta]

They were very good. I mean, they're very good in the final. Didn't really play anyone until the final, to be fair to them. That's a bit unfair on, you know, a couple of Brazilian teams who were. They were okay during the tournament, but they didn't have the run that PSG had. So they did get the favorable side of the draw. I think where the Club World cup could be positive for Chelsea is just. It just, you know, having won the Conference League, then you win the Club World cup, you just start to build good habits of winning trophies. Squad comes a bit closer together and I think the Club World cup also forced them to do some business a bit earlier. So, you know, Joao Pedro is now pretty well adapted. Liam delap, they got in very early as well. I still think Chelsea's problem is they've not got a goalkeeper. Well, they've got. They've got a lot of goalkeepers, but not a goalkeeper that you would put on the level of a. An Alisson or a David Rya that I think, I do think it's really hard to win the Premier League without an amazing goalkeeper. I don't think it's happened for a very long time now. And I think they also need a high quality centre back and an experienced centre back. Almost like a Thiago Silva was when they got him in a few a few years ago. Someone that you really trust in that backline. Because they're still going down this road and I think it is working better than we all thought it would, to be honest. You know, if you look at results and the general trajectory of the team, I think they are looking better and better. And I think, you know, they're still looking at trying to bring in Xavi Simons and also Garnacho. I think for Man United will happen as well. So they're not going to be sure from a forward position, but I do think just that center back and goalkeeper. If they were to go and do the way that Liverpool went and got Alisson and Van Dijk, I don't know who these players are that would do that. If they did that, I think Chelsea win the league. I really do. Because you look at the rest of the team and I think they're really strong, but they may just be one year, one season away from it rather than this season.

[Adam Crafton]

Yeah, attacking wise. Simon, you and I are in an agreement. Joao Pedro signing of the season. I'm really excited to see how he slips into this Chelsea side and how it works out. He's already sitting quite well with quite a few goals and how you contributed on the piece saying he was your signing of the season. What do you make of that business? 50 million potentially well spent.

[Simon Hughes]

I think he is a really good player. I'm surprised other clubs there wasn't greater competition for him, to be honest. I mean, there's been a lot of focus as we discussed on, on Gyokeres, understandably, given the needs at Arsenal, but it was similar at Chelsea, really. The conversation was similar about how, you know, what do we do about the center forward position. And I think the number nine, if you like, has become almost the hardest position to solve now because there's so few of them. It's always been the hardest thing to do in football, right, score goals. But particularly now, the way football's evolved and the expectations on forwards in terms of what they do, it's got even harder to shop for the right one. But I do think that he is the right one and I think Liam Delap offers, offers something slightly different. So I think they've got a nice bit of variation there as well. They both seem to have settled pretty well, so I'd expect Chelsea to do better again. But I agree with Adam. I just think the age profile of the team isn't quite there yet. You look back, it's the, even the Abramovich era that the key players that they brought in were like the 24, 25, maybe 26 age group, whereas the players that they've shopped around for over the last two or three years have been 20, 21, 22. And it's just going to take a little bit more time for them to get there, I think. But yeah, the goalkeeper is still a problem for them, definitely.

[Adam Crafton]

Right, Adam, before we go, a little something because I'm looking forward to you joining us this season a little more and I've also really enjoyed, I'll put this rather cynical and insightful takes on football on X. Right. So once a week through the season, I want to check in on you and also want to find out who are the winners and the losers from the world of football. I know you can talk, so I'm going to give you a minute. When you hear the referee's whistle, you have to stop. Okay, Adam, what has caught your eye this week?

[David Archuleta]

So the big winner, well, certainly of the start of this week is Nottingham Forest, who have found their way into the UF UEFA Europa League rather than the Conference League after Crystal Palace's appeal failed. However, although they look like a winner, they haven't actually won a game in the whole of preseason as far as I can tell they've scored one goal in seven games, struggling big time, having actually ended last season quite poorly as well. I think two wins in their last eight Premier League games. And I do wonder whether the the balance of having Europa League football and also the Premier League could actually mean that Mr. Marinakis Nutskin Forest, which is their new official name, means that there's quite a lot of pressure early on on Nuno because they've not made a huge amount of signings lost Anthony Elanga and I worry slightly as to whether that drop off will lead to run out of time.

[Adam Crafton]

Lead to come on, you got to give me that one.

[David Archuleta]

Well, it will just lead to an element of pressure on the head coach early in the season.

[Adam Crafton]

Job done well, nice. Like a true professional. Let's end it there. Simon, I'm going to ask you anything. You're all good. You're off the hook.

[Simon Hughes]

I didn't get a big intro like Adam there.

[Adam Crafton]

Let's wrap it up. Adam, Simon, appreciate your time and also thank you guys for listening. We'll be back next time.

[Simon Hughes]

You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beal.

[Ayok Akimolene]

The executive producer was A.Y. moorhead.

[Simon Hughes]

To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic.

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