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- [00:01]
IO Akamwalere
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- [01:22]
Chase Advertisement
Before boarding, there's only one place to go. The Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club. There you can recharge before the big adventure or enjoy a locally inspired dish. You could recline in a comfy chair to catch up on your favorite show or order a craft cocktail at the bar. Whatever you're in the mood for, find the detail that moves you with curated touches at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club Chase. Make more of what's yours. Learn more@chase.com SapphireReserve cards issued by JP.
- [01:49]
JP Morgan Advertisement
Morgan, Chase bank and a member FDIC.
- [01:51]
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Subject to credit approval.
- [01:52]
Aura Advertisement
This podcast is brought to you by Aura. Imagine waking up to find your bank account drained, bills for loans you never took out, a warrant for your arrest. All because someone stole your identity. Hackers aren't waiting. Why are you? That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Your personal data is a goldmine for hackers, and Aura helps lock it down. Aura monitors the dark web, blocks data brokers from selling your information Includes a VPN for private browsing and a password manager to secure your accounts before criminals break in. For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety that's Aura safety to sign up and start protecting yourself and your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [02:48]
James Pearce
The Athletic FC Podcast Network hello, I'm Iowa Kimwaleere and welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast. Arne Slot has settled in nicely at Liverpool and his side are top of the Premier League. Gako into a great area where it's tucked in, polished off eagerly, gleefully by Diogo Jota and it's taken eight minutes for the league leaders to strike, but they are yet to be anyone in the top half of the table. So how serious is Liverpool's challenge for the title? I'm joined by the Athletics, Ollie K and our Liverpool writer James Pearce as well. Gents. Really good to have you with us, James. Nine wins from his opening 10 games in all competitions. It's the best ever start from a Liverpool manager. I was going to ask the question, are we surprised at how quickly he settled in or should we be asking how impressed should we be?
- [03:47]
JP Morgan Advertisement
I think when Liverpool went for Arna Slot, the more I learned about him and heard about people speaking to people that had worked with him, you could see the sense in going through him in terms of the style of play, the way in which he kind of exceeded expectations at Feyenoord compared to the resources of some of their rivals. And we knew that he'd obviously turned down bigger jobs previously. But yeah, he just looks the part, doesn't he? And I think the caveat, which of course we'll come on to talk about is, and even he has held his hands up to this, that Liverpool have been given quite a kind start in terms of the fixtures and the teams they face so far. But even saying that he's exceeded all expectations, let's not forget if you rewind, what, three or four months people were talking about, you know, are we going to see a kind of post Ferguson style drop off at Liverpool like we saw at Manchester United? Because you know, that's always the fear, isn't it, when you lose such an iconic figure, you think how on earth can you possibly replace someone like Jurgen Klopp? But at the minute the transition has been seamless.
- [04:53]
James Pearce
Yeah, Oli, we've seen, you know, a heap of foreign coaches come into the Premier League. But did you think it would take slot time to adapt? Are you surprised by how quickly he's found his rhythm in the Premier League? With obviously the caveat that, you know, there are bigger teams still to come.
- [05:07]
Oli K
I think that you normally get this sort of slight culture shock with with coaches coming from whether it's from the Eredivisie or Bundesliga or La Liga. Anyway, there's normally a shock in those first few games. It's not necessarily against one of the big teams. I can remember Guardiola talking about it after after games at Leicester and about watching Swansea v. Stoke or something like that, where he was just alarmed by the style of football that was being played here and how it was all fighting for second balls and so on. And I know the style of football has changed a lot anyway the last since Guardiola's been here, but it feels like nothing has shocked slot. Uncomfortable first 25 half minutes, half an hour at Ipswich, maybe the odd uncomfortable 10 minutes against palace the other day. But generally speaking, it's been pretty plain sailing and I would even say plain sailing compared to last season under Klopp, because last season under Klopp they were in the title race, still in the hunt for four trophies until the final weeks when the wheels came off. But everything was really frantic. There weren't very many really controlled, serene performances and that's what we've seen most of the time under slot. It is impressive and I say all of this again with the caveat that much bigger tests to come, particularly over the next couple of months after the international break.
- [06:29]
James Pearce
James, I think we've spoken about this in the previous podcast and I think what's been really impressive for me is how he's managed to carry himself. You know, he seems like his own character, but also I guess with all that was going on in the background at Liverpool, it makes it even more interesting how he's managed to come in and quiet in the noise in a very strange way. What has really impressed you about him so far?
- [06:52]
JP Morgan Advertisement
I think that self belief more than anything in terms I think he's also struck a really good balance between being respectful to the previous era. He's know he's eulogized about, you know, Klopp's achievements and especially he keeps on saying, you know, I was very lucky to have inherited such a talented squad of players. Which I think is an important point because it is a rare situation for a job as big as Liverpool to come up when they're not in a state of Flux, he inherited a really talented group of players. So yeah, that of course is part of it. But he's also put his own stamp on it. You know, you watch Liverpool now and you know, you can see it already looks like a slot team in terms of the greater control they've got in games. You know Oli mentioned then about the title challenge kind of wilting last season and obviously Liverpool suffered, you know, that chasing in Europa League defeat to Atalanta. And you know, you think about the FA cup defeat to Manchester United. United where suddenly from thinking about winning four trophies they had to settle for the Carabao Cup. And they were just so open at times. It was like basketball. And then you look at Liverpool now and you know, the structure looks so much better. Obviously a lot was made of the fact that he's, he's the head coach rather than the manager and I think you can see that really suits him. He's obsessed with coaching and improving players and is more than happy for to have other people around him to take care of those other elements that come with being a manager and things that Klopp took on, on his shoulders. So he's an impressive individual and the feedback I've had from, from players is they, they just love his training sessions and not just him but the staff as well. And again that kind of puts into perspective what he's done. You know it was, it wasn't just the manager change and it was the entire backroom staff. You had a new sporting director coming in and Richard Hughes as well. You know the entire football operation structure was rebuilt at Liverpool over the last six months. So that makes it even more remarkable that we're going into the October international break with them looking down on the rest of the Premier League.
- [08:50]
James Pearce
Now Oli, this style of play he seems to have created and I guess contrasting to the heavy metal sort of football that Jurgen Kot played. You look at this and you see this from my perspective anyway as a, as a manager who's always clearly built a style for himself, an understanding of what he wants to achieve on the field, but also this sort of possession based style. Do you think it came at a really good time for Liverpool where you sort of fel felt the back end of Jurgen Klopp's tenure at Liverpool. You sort of felt like his powers are weaning. Perhaps a little bit more structure was needed for this Liverpool team?
- [09:25]
Oli K
Yeah, if you look at, if you look at the last two years of Klopp, I mean it's. I don't want to Sound revisionist, like everything was terrible under Klopp because it wasn't Klopp. Klopp was brilliant for Liverpool and as I said, they were in the hunt for everything going into, what was it, March, April. But I mean he spoke himself about. His energy was fading a little bit and he wasn't sure he'd be able to do it again. I think there was. There was always a slight sense with. Not so much with the season as a whole, but often with individual performances. That live ball were papering over the cracks a bit last season. I think this season it looks like the whole thing is more structured but also more fluent. Again, the caveats about the fixture list because, you know, I don't think it's been a toughest start, but I would also say that their two best performances have been away to Manchester United in a way to AC Milan, which admittedly those two clubs aren't performing brilliantly this season, but they are two really difficult games and Liverpool had difficult games at Man United in the past when Man United has been no good. So it's, it's. Yeah, I think the fact that they've risen to those occasions and tactical challenges and I guess psychological challenges, mental challenges suggests that there is more to this than just playing, you know, a bunch of duffers in the, in the opening weeks. They have been tested in these first couple of months and they've come through every test so far very well. And now the tests get harder. Naturally.
- [10:42]
James Pearce
James, you spoke about him making players better and it's definitely something from some of the pieces that are on the athletic right now. That was highlighted when, you know, the hierarchy at Liverpool were looking at, at this coach Ryan Gravenberg we have to talk about. I wouldn't necessarily say a player renewed because you did see glimpses of what he could potentially do under Jurgen Klopp, but a player that seems to be thriving in this role under Arne Slot. What tweaks has he made, do you think, structurally or tactically that really suits this player?
- [11:17]
JP Morgan Advertisement
Yeah, I think. I think the system definitely does because, you know, the balance of that midfield has changed and because of the difference in the style of play. I mean, you go back to the, the summer window when of course Liverpool pursued Martin Zubimendi from Saucy Adad. They wanted that player to fill that particular role and it was very clear that, you know, the profile of say a number six that Liverpool have been. That had changed from the clock era. When you think of the type that Fabinho was, who was so effective for so long before his form fell off a cliff and he was more of a destroyer type. Whilst Slot wanted no, a kind of a ball playing number six who could operate in really tight areas. So I think, I think that has helped Gravenberg obviously. You know, the irony being if Liverpool had got Zubamendi, we probably would have seen very little at Gravenberg so far because I don't think he would have got in ahead of Mac Allister. And it is more of a kind of, you know, a lot of the time, although it is fluent, it's kind of McAllister and Gravenberg deeper with you know, either Szerboslayo as it was on the weekend, Curtis Jones operating ahead of them. So I think those changes that Slot has put in place have helped. But I think a lot of the credit just has to go to Gravenberg himself. I mean he looks absolutely transformed in terms of just the confidence in himself. He did only show flashes last season. I think it was difficult for him because, you know, you go back to, you know, he obviously leaves Ajax for Bayern Munich and barely played for Bayern Munich. So it's, you know, it's, it's very difficult when you come to a club as big as Liverpool and you've got so little kind of rhythm and match time under your belt. And then of course he didn't get that run of games for Liverpool. He was a bit part player in the slot system. It was difficult really to see where he fitted in because you, you felt what he was probably a bit too lightweight to play deep and not really effective enough creativity wise when he was given chances further forward. But he just looks perfectly suited to this system. And the other thing that strikes me about him is his stamina and maybe that is just from having like a, you know, a good preseason and then kicking on and playing regularly as he has done. But you know, I think he only completed 90 minutes twice for Liverpool in all competitions last season. Which just showed that, you know, even, even when he did have good moments, it was just never sustained over a full 90 yet, you know, now he's gone from there to you looking at him being ever present in the Premier League and the Champions League so far, and not just that he's been so effective and so influential in Liverpool's success so far this season that you almost think, well, how could Liverpool cope without him? And that is, that is a remarkable leap to have made from, you know, Liverpool went into this season with, you know, a lot of gnashing of teeth amongst sections of the fan base because they hadn't bought a holding midfielder yet, you know, and again, we know there's tougher tests to come, but it looked like things have, you know, fate has clearly played a part there and Gravenberg has grasped the opportunity given to him.
- [14:12]
Oli K
It's not just a guy who was previously slightly written off or slightly underestimated playing well. He's playing really well. He's one of the best performers in the Premier League so far this season. I think it's fascinating when it's the one position Slot was desperate to strengthen the summer and it's clearly because he looked at that, that squad and thought, well, this is where we're slightly deficient. And it reminds me a little of how, say, David Moyes arrived at Manchester United 2013 post Ferguson looked at that team and he wanted that kind of midfielder. He wanted Fabregas, he wanted Thiago, who obviously ended up at Liverpool many years later and he didn't get him. And they panicked at the end of that first transfer window and ended up signing Fellaini, who took the whole team philosophy in a totally different direction. It meant that no real sort of new Manchester United style ever emerged. And it probably got to about, what was it nine years later where 10 Hag came in? His former Ajax coach. And who did he want as his cornerstone of his, his team? He wanted a player like Frankie De Jong, who's that type of player in a way, he's that sort of box to box, light touch, playmaker, similar in some ways to Gravenbirch, not identical, but similar. And he just wanted that certain player the same way that Slot did with Zubi Mendy. And Ten Hag wasn't able to get De Jong. And what does he do? They panic. They go in a completely different direction. They sign players like Casemiro Ugarte this summer. They've never gone after again that sort of type of midfield player. And they've never shaped their midfield that way. Whereas with Slot at Liverpool from the start, he said, this is the way we want to play. If I can't get Azubia Mendy, that's fine. We'll do the same with Gravenberg. The difference, I think, you know, that word philosophy that we hear a lot about managers? Slot has shown there's a difference between wanting a certain type of player and being committed to a certain type of playing style.
- [16:10]
IO Akamwalere
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamwalere.
- [16:17]
Dermot Corrigan
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- [17:32]
Chase Advertisement
With an hour before boarding, there's only one place to go. The Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club. There you can recharge before the big adventure or enjoy a locally inspired dish. You can recline in a comfy chair to catch up on your favorite show or order a craft cocktail at the bar. Whatever you're in the mood for, find the detail that moves you with curated touches at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club Chase. Make more of what's yours. Learn more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by.
- [18:00]
JP Morgan Advertisement
JP Morgan, Chase bank and a member.
- [18:01]
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- [18:03]
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This podcast is brought to you by Aura. Imagine waking up to find your bank account drained, bills for loans you never took out, a warrant for your arrest. All because someone stole your identity. Hackers aren't waiting. Why are you? That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Your personal data is a goldmine for hackers and Aura helps lock it down. Aura monitors the dark Web, blocks data brokers from selling your information. Includes a VPN for private browsing and a password manager to secure your accounts before criminals break in. For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and start protecting yourself and your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [19:01]
James Pearce
Of course one of the things hanging over Liverpool's head right now, James, is the contract uncertainty. You know their three most important players. Van Dijk, Salah, Alexander Arnold. What have you made of the way Slot has handled the questions around what's going on with those contract conversations especially when they've been put to him. Because even listening to him it's clear that his distinctively showing that he's about the coaching and all that other stuff is being taken care of in the background.
- [19:27]
JP Morgan Advertisement
Yeah, yeah. He's just absolutely steadfastly refused to, to get involved in it. Yeah. And it was in Friday's press conference that he was kind of laughing saying it doesn't matter how many times you try and ask me the same thing in different ways. I'm not going to discuss contract situations in, in public. We know that situation with that key trio. Dialogue with their representatives remains open and ongoing. You know there has been some progress on other contracts. You we reported last night that Jarell Quanza is set to sign a new long term contract reward for his development and they've opened talks with Konate again. He well and truly fits into that bracket canate of a player who'd lost his way towards the end of the Klopp era that has been transformed under Slot. So his current deal runs till 2026 and they want to get that tied down to a longer deal. And I'm sure we'll come on to talk about this about Richard Hughes. You know these are complex negotiations and I think you know, obviously the noise online is well what you know, why are they doing these deals when they should be doing these deals and it's like well it's, it's not as simple as that. You know these are, these are complex negotiations. Even the Kwanzaa one which you know you would imagine would be very straightforward in terms of you know, rewarding someone whose previous deal that he signed 18 months ago was before he'd even made a, a senior appearance. Now he's an established member of the first team squad and they want to reward that. Those discussions started in June so that, that gives you some indication of how long these things can take. Now of course the issue with Salah Van Dijk and Alexander Arnold is the clock is ticking because you know we're getting ever closer to that January, the first date when if this impasse continues they could potentially sign a pre contract agreement with a club overseas.
- [21:13]
James Pearce
Oli Richard Hughes, we have to talk about it arrived as sporting director in the summer I guess immediately. This is a big one to address. It's a bit tough to kind of come in there, try to reshape this team, try to lock down your key players. It's a bit of a handful this one, isn't it? Because Alexander Arnold's probably still young enough to carry on at the club. Mo Salah with his greatness is probably the other side of his career. And Van Dijk is in a particularly interesting situation where he's also won a lot with Liverpool and you wouldn't dismiss him from wanting a newer challenge.
- [21:48]
Oli K
Yeah, the, the, the sort of new challenge aspect is, is one that I think we can sometimes underestimate in these cases with all three of them they've, they've been part of something extremely special over the last five, six years at Liverpool and players do sometimes think well you know what, I fancy a change of scenery. But I think that they're more inclined to feel that way when they're coming towards the end of their contract. And I think the mistake Liverpool have made is nothing to do with Richard Hughes or Michael Edwards or Arnold Slot. It's the fact that these three contracts, Alexander Arnold in particular because of his age have been allowed to run down so far with no new deals. And I think I've certainly written about it before. James has written about it before. There was this period where Liverpool had no continuity whatsoever. Sporting Director There was a period where Mike Gordon was sort of away working on other projects and investments and so on and wasn't really having much involvement day to day. And that is why Liverpool are in a situation where a player like Alexander Arnold was already in his year, final year by the time Richard Hughes and Edwards returned and Arnold Slott arrived as well. It's an inherited problem which is so much harder to resolve now or even in the summer than it would have been a year ago if they'd started contract talks with Alexander Arnold 12 months ago or 18 months ago or even two years ago. I'm sure there would have been very little problem. The dynamic changes completely when somebody's in the final 18 months, never mind the final year. So he's now in a position where it would probably be natural if he's aware and the market has made him and his representatives aware of what his value might be if he moves elsewhere. And Liverpool have never been the biggest payers. That's not to say they're stingy or working on a shoestring budget but I think Liverpool have never been the ones who have said look you'll get more money here than anywhere else. They're in a difficult situation. And it also reaches the point with moving away from Alexander Arnold and more back towards Salah and Van Dijk. They will be 33 and 34 by the start of next season. You can't just do what you would have done when they were 28, 29 and say, I'll give them what they want. It's difficult. I, I look at Van Dijk and I think, well, has there ever been a better 33 year old Central defender? You know, I think back to what Rio Ferdinand and John Terry were like at the same age and they were creaking, they weren't at this level. It's so hard to replace him. Yet it's also possible to say, well, if he ends up wanting like a three year deal on big, big money, it's not as easy as just saying, let's just sign it off. I think that becomes difficult. Same with Salah. We can all say how well he started this season, brilliantly, but he's not the player he was perhaps three years ago. He's a different kind of player. He's not as explosive. When he scored that brilliant goal against Bologna the other night, I was thinking, God, I haven't seen him do that for a while.
- [24:39]
JP Morgan Advertisement
This is Salah, almost Salah.
- [24:42]
James Pearce
Brilliant.
- [24:47]
JP Morgan Advertisement
That is a terrific goal from Mo Salah.
- [24:51]
Oli K
The cost of replacing, that level of output and that level of efficiency and consistency, attitude, availability, even the commercial stuff, which I hate even having to acknowledge, but it's, it's. The cost of replacing these players will be enormous. But there is a calculation to be made in terms of, certainly in terms of the older two, how long can you continue to pay them at that top level? And I do think it's just a really, really difficult situation for Richard Hughes and Michael Edwards to walk back into because it should have been done, it should have been a year done a year ago.
- [25:25]
James Pearce
Well, joining us now from Madrid we have the Athletics La Liga writer Dermot Corrigan. Dermot, we've just been talking about the contracts of Trent Alexander, Arn Mo Salah and obviously Virgil Van Dijk. Trent Alexander Arnold is an interesting one, especially from a Madrid perspective. Anyway, you know, Carvajal has now been ruled out for a fair bit of time. Any conversations around Trent Alexander Arnold potentially going to Real Madrid or anything in the press over there because he's a player that might not be a Liverpool player next year.
- [25:54]
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I was at the Bernabeu at the weekend on Saturday night when a Carvajal got injured and it was immediately obvious that it was A serious problem that he was going to be out for a good while and in the car on the way home, listen to the radio. There were people already talking about who Madrid might go for and Trent Alexander Arnold comes up as somebody who has been mentioned in the past, is an international quality player. Madrid are always on the lookout for people coming towards the end of their contracts. They have a history of being smart about it, going for people like Courtois, even Bellingham, that they look for opportunities in the market. So it came up. Having said that, the immediate response from Madrid was, look, we're not going to go crazy here. We're not going to react immediately. It's a different Madrid, maybe from a decade ago. They do things quite reasonably and calmly. They're not, you know, immediately scouring the market to see who they can bring in in January. There's confidence at least in the, in the hierarchy of the club. There's confidence that the squad is, is deep enough to cover. It still looks quite, you know, Anchorage doesn't have that many defenders and he's already without Alba's long term injury. Nacho left in the summer. He was the guy who kind of covered all the different issue or the different positions in defense. So they're a bit low at right back but it's more one that they were already monitoring and maybe are monitoring even more closely now rather than something that they're ready to move immediately to try and snap them up.
- [27:11]
James Pearce
Yeah, James, does negotiating for a player like Trent Alexander Arnold, considering, you know, he could leave next year on a free, become really, really tricky? You know, Oli's spoken about, you know, perhaps certain players just want a new challenge. No one knows that in particular Fortune Alexander Arnold. But based on what he represents for Liverpool, this should feel like a contract you imagine they really would like to tie down.
- [27:35]
JP Morgan Advertisement
Yeah, I think there's a few different levels to it because, you know, firstly he's an incredibly valuable asset. How would you replace Trent Alexander Arnold? He's got such a unique skill set and the creativity that he gives this team that, you know, that would leave a big void. And then you've also got the financial impact of losing someone who's, you know, 100 million pound plus asset. The damage of losing someone like that for nothing is damaging. And then also what he represents, the fan base as the local boy that, you know, used to peer through the hole in the wall at Melwood to watch Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres train. So it's, you know, and he's the vice captain, you know, when he, when he was given the vice captaincy by Jurgen Klopp, you know, what, 18 months ago, it was, you know, succession planning. It was like, this guy is going to be, you know, the. The leader of the next generation in this team. So, yeah, as Oli said, it's just a pretty horrendous situation that Richard Hughes has inherited there where, you know, that should have been sorted out long before he took over. And just going on to what you said in terms of now leaving it to this point, it becomes increasingly difficult because inevitably you're going to be competing with offers from clubs who won't be paying a transfer fee. I don't think there's too many examples, is there, in the modern era of players, once they get down into their last six months of a deal, signing, you know, a new contract, because the, you know, the numbers just don't stack up. And of course, you know, people say, well, how strong, you know, are Real Madrid seriously interested? But I'd be absolutely baffled if Real Madrid weren't seriously interested. I think every top club in Europe would be keeping a very close eye on those developments and thinking, have we got half a chance of getting someone as talented and as valuable as Alexander Arnold for nothing? So that's the big worry, I think, with the other two contract situations I could understand because of their age and because, you know, they're the two highest earners at the club, Van Dijk and Salah, I can understand why you would leave it to their last year just to assess where they're at. And, you know, of course it's. And you've got to take the emotion out of it. And it can't be about what they've already done for the club. It has to be what you think they can go on to achieve in the next two or three years. But because of the state of flux that Liverpool was in for a period with, you know, Jorg Schmatke was only an interim sporting director last season. This was a real oversight and it could end up being really costly for Liverpool.
- [29:56]
James Pearce
Damn it. Just thinking about the relationship between Bellingham and Trent and, you know, agent Bellingham on the phone telling his boy to come over to Madrid as soon as possible. But, you know, obviously we're unsure as to whether or not this deal will happen, but commercially this could be also, yet again, another interesting one for Real Madrid. You've got two players, Adidas players, Real Madrid sponsored by Adidas. You can see the beauty of the campaign already if something like this does happen.
- [30:23]
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Yeah, in US a story on it this morning in the Madrid press, there was a reminder that the two guys had gone on holidays together to Los Angeles. Vanghama and Trent Alexander Arnold in the summer, which I'd either missed or forgotten about, but they hadn't missed it or forgotten about it. It was nice detail in this story, but again, that's people talking about it rather than that's what's coming from Madrid. Remember having a conversation a while ago with somebody at Madrid about Alexander Arnold and it was pointed out that the Madrid vs Liverpool games weren't his best games for Liverpool. There was a game During COVID Vinicius Jr. Ran riot against Liverpool in that game when Alexander AM was marking him. There's the goal in the Champions League final in Paris as well where Vinicius Jr got ahead of him. So there would be kind of concerns about maybe Dani Carvalho. He's an all rounder, is a defensive kind of fullbacker. He's a guy who gets up and down the line. It's not the Madrid of, you know, years ago where, okay, we'll stick Roberto Carlos or Marcelo, that fullback and they'll basically be another attacker for the team or there'll be a guy who, who's more involved on the ball than off the ball, especially under Ancelotti. They like defenders who can defend as well. Which is not to say that Trent Alexander can't do that, but it's something that, that I come up in the conversations. So yeah, again, it's something that they're going to be looking at. They were looking at Davis for left back as well at Bayern Munich, who's a player who's also coming to the end of his contract that's a bit further down the line that Trent Alexander Arnold would be. But as you said, there's a lot of. It makes sense for a lot of reasons that Madrid would go from. And they are that clever about it that when something makes sense for the commercial reasons that you talk about it again and if somebody's available as a bargain on a free transfer, there'd be a lot of, you know, you get a decent wage, maybe signing bonus as well. It wouldn't be a free, as people say, but still from a. Yeah, there's a lot of reasons why it's going to be talked about a lot at Madrid over the next couple of weeks and months as the season goes on.
- [32:13]
James Pearce
Yeah, Ollie, realistically, who turns down that life Real Madrid come knocking at your door? You know, the keys to Madrid, the keys to playing with some of the greatest young players in the world. I mean, it's an offer not many can refuse.
- [32:26]
Oli K
No, some. Some do refuse. I mean, Steven Gerrard refused Real Madrid when, when he was at Liverpool and I think on a couple occasions, but certainly towards the end of his career when Joseph Mourinho just taken over, when I think, I think he probably. There's part of him that might think, what if. What have I taken that? Would my legacy really be any different? Worse, you know, he might regret that in some small way. Paul Pogba rejected them 2016 because Mino Raiola was telling him that the money that Manchester United were offering was even crazier. I would be pretty certain that Pogba would regret that Mbappe rejected them in a similar situation in 2022. Well, a couple of times, actually.
- [33:09]
James Pearce
I mean, they got their man in the end.
- [33:10]
Oli K
They got their man in the end, though. But, but do you remember he was he. In 2021, 22, he was winding his contract down. Everybody was expecting him to say to, to go to Madrid and, and PSG and, and everyone behind PSG seemed to throw basically the whole entire club at him and say, look, here are the keys to the castle. You do what you like, here's all the money. And he stayed and then immediately regretted it and sort of couldn't wait to get. To get out to Madrid when, when the opportunity came. So, look, not many people turned down Real Madrid. I think that is fair to say. You could look at a few people like Michael Owen, who went out there and didn't really settle. But I think, I think Trent Alexander Arnold is a different personality, different, different generation. He's got his mate Bellingham out there. Real Madrid are also in a really, really good place now, which probably wasn't the case back in 2004. In some ways it was. Clubbing estate flux. I think if that is on the table, and we don't know that it will be for all the reasons that Dermot mentions, I think it would be really hard to turn down. But I think Alexander Arnold is in a position that, from Liverpool's point of view, he probably shouldn't be in. He probably shouldn't be in a position where it's his decision to make.
- [34:23]
James Pearce
Yeah, all right, Dermot, we'll let you go and really appreciate your view from Madrid as well.
- [34:27]
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James Pearce
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- [35:48]
IO Akamwalere
This is the Athletic FC podcast with I.O. acamolera.
- [35:55]
James Pearce
Well, James, Liverpool are top of the Premier League. Haven't won six of their seven games, but it's fair to say we won't know fully until I guess towards Christmas really as to whether or not this is truly a, a title winning or potential title winning team. It's fair to say that, you know, there's still a few hurdles ahead.
- [36:15]
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Undoubtedly, I think, you know, the next next couple of months is going to be the real kind of litmus test of just where this team is at. And to be fair to slot, you know, he has repeatedly made that point that, you know, yes, it's great to be where we are at the minute, but we're not stupid. Look at the league table, look who we've played, look who we've beaten. We haven't done it yet against any team that you would say that, you know, you wouldn't have almost expected Liverpool to have beaten really. But yeah, you know, after the October international break, you've obviously got Chelsea coming to Anfield. You got, you know, Leipzig away in the, in the Champions League, Arsenal away, which is going to be, you know, a big one in the Premier League. And then, you know, it doesn't really get much easier. Brighton away in the Carabao Cup. Brighton at home. You know, we saw, you know, what a slick unit they are with the way they fought back against Tottenham on the weekend. You know, you've got, then you've got Leverkusen, Villa, Southampton, Real Madrid and then at the start of December, Manchester City at home. So I think by the start of December we will well and truly know Whether Liverpool are going to be part of the conversation in the title race this season or whether they're going to be at where we probably thought they would be, which is around that third, fourth place spot with a new manager that's, that's still trying to get his ideas across and is working with players and, and a work in progress if you like. So yeah, it's going to be going to be intriguing to see how they deal with that, you know, the step up in quality and whether they can, they can raise it accordingly.
- [37:46]
James Pearce
Oli, what James said that was really interesting about potentially could be that team in third or fourth place spot. I mean that isn't so bad, is it? Manager's first year still trying to figure out what the Premier League's doing and still trying to figure out how his players work and I mean I know they've started very well but the Premier League and football becomes very real. Moving forward now with the Champions League fixtures and the league fixtures in tow, Liverpool fans can't be too disgrunted if that is where Liverpool end up at the end of the season.
- [38:16]
Oli K
No, I think the expectation would be that the hope would be that there's a title challenge. I don't think, you know those title challenged last season. I don't think too many people were too critical of them not winning it because they were up against two very good teams and they just sort of run out of legs or run out of headspace. It seemed in sort of that, that March, April period this season I don't think anybody really expected a title challenger at all. Clearly some people did. When we athletic writers did our predictions at the start of season, I think probably 95% of people predicted Man City or Arsenal to win the league and Liverpool generally were picked up say third, fourth and it might be too early to say that that's changed but they've looked like a team that, that can challenge. They've looked like a team that have got an awful lot of wind in the sails and, and are playing really well and everything structurally seems to be working. But then you know, various things. A just the Premier League fixtures that Liverpool have got next, Chelsea, Arsenal, Brighton Villa, Southampton, Man City, Newcastle, Everton. It's a really, I mean it's, it's a horrible run really. B the fact that there are all kinds of Champions League games including Leverkusen and Real Madrid in the middle of that and see you've got injuries, Alisson going off the other day at palace that's, you know, they've got a very Good deputy in Kelleher but you know Alisson's out for a few weeks or a month or it's bad news. He coped very very well in the summer period Kelleher last season but it's you know nobody at Liverpool would be rubbing their hands at thinking thought of Alisson being out for any amount of time. So their points per game will probably be lower over the next couple of months than they have in the first couple of months. But if look at those eight games. If they were to win four of them or five of them I mean they'd be in a really good place. You know if they were to take take points off Man City and or Arsenal there might even be a bit of leeway to drop a couple of points elsewhere. But it's those tests get so much harder. It's quite. You do often have these sort of swings in terms of teams fixture lists over the course of season but it's a pretty. It's pretty extreme I think to go from the the. The start they've had to the games that are coming up next that that's.
- [40:30]
James Pearce
The point really isn't it James? Injuries and we've seen it affect Liverpool last season and we know slot does like a much trimmed down squad. How much of a an effect do you think that will have on whether or not this team is able to to mount a title challenge? Because Alisson for sure is a very, very important player.
- [40:49]
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Yeah that's, that's the worry especially I think because he had the bad hamstring injury last season and of course he'd already missed missed a game this season due to due to a minor hamstring issue. And now you know you, you could I think you could just tell can you by the way he went down that it's not going to be a small issue. You know I think Liverpool awaiting scan results as we as we talk at the minute but you know slot. I think from what the way he spoke after the game he expects to be without Alisson for. For a number of weeks after, after the October international break course he's withdrawn from the the Brazil squad but it does underline why Liverpool refused to sanction the sale of Quavin Kelleher in the summer. You know we know that Kelleher was desperate to leave and go be a number one and and Liverpool just didn't get an offer which they felt truly reflected his value. I think they, they turned down. I think it was 7 million plus Matt Turner from from Forest which you know they, they felt was pretty derisory I think which, which I agree and I think Kelleher, I was amazed that another top Premier League club didn't come in and buy him for you know, 20, 25 million pounds. But yeah, it shows the value of having that quality backup. And also you know Vitislav Yaros who obviously came on for his Premier League debut on the weekend. The Keller who absent due to illness, he's a real talent as well. You know he. I think he's an example of the loan system working really well for Liverpool. You know he won, won the, the double in Austria with Sturm Gratz last season and, and just look so much more impressive, you know, physically and also with the ball at his feet and had a good preseason under slot. The good News is obviously McAllister was forced off on the weekend as well but he has flown to Miami to link up with the Argentina squad now. You know, if that groin issue was anything to majorly worry about, I don't think that would have happened. So yeah, he seems pretty confident McAllister, that that isn't going to be something to worry Liverpool about after the international break. And by and large Touchwood, you know, Liverpool have had a lot more better fortune with injuries so far this season. You know, the Alison one is obviously tough to take but there is a sense that a less intense brand of football and a less intense training regime has certainly resulted in fewer muscle injuries so far this season. That is going to be key as well because we all know that when that thing's unraveled last season, you know, it wasn't just being without so many key players at a pivotal period is actually when those players came back from injury they, they struggled to regain rhythm because they'd been out for, you know, six, eight weeks for some of them. So yeah, Alisson tough to take. Although I don't. Yeah, I think Kelleher is so good that I just don't think that is the worry that, that it would be at most clubs if you lost your number one.
- [43:33]
James Pearce
Yeah, for sure. Gents, let's leave it there. And Liverpool fans, buckle yourselves in. It's going to be a bumpy ride after the international break, that is for sure. James, Ollie, thanks. Also Dermot who joined us earlier as well and also you can hear more from James on our Liverpool podcast. Walk on. We'll be back tomorrow. Thank you so much for listening.
- [43:52]
IO Akamwalere
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroot and Jay Beal. The executive producer was Ailey Moorhead to listen to other great athletic podcasts for free. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
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