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Football Analyst
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IO Akamolera
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [02:15]
IO Akamolera
AYO Akimolera here and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast. So Tottenham are looking for investors with Amanda Staveley's name brought into the conversation, having broken the Saudi public investment fund takeover of Newcastle United. But would spurs be able to spend enough to make a Difference on the.
- [02:34]
Football Analyst
Pitch.
- [02:38]
IO Akamolera
I'm joined by the Athletics, Tottenham Hotspur writer Jack Pitt Brooke and also Matt Slater. Jack, on Wednesday, you looked at the growing speculation involving Amanda Staveley and any possible interest in investing in Tottenham. I mean, what is the current state of affairs around spurs ownership?
- [02:57]
Jack Pitt Brooke
So the ownership situation at Tottenham is very stable and has been for a long time. Basically, 86.58% of Tottenham Hotspur is owned by Enoch. If you go on the Tottenham Hotspur website, they break it down as follows. Mr. Daniel Levy and certain members of his family are potential beneficiaries of discretionary trusts, which ultimately own 29.88% of the share capital of Enoch. A discretionary trust, of which certain members of Mr. Joe Lewis family are potential beneficiaries, ultimately owns 70.12% of the share capital of Enec. Obviously, Joe Lewis, as listeners will know, was the founder of enec, but he ceded significant control effectively to his family in 2022. Daniel Levy, as everyone knows, is the chairman of Tottenham Hotspur and has been running Tottenham for a long time.
- [03:50]
IO Akamolera
Yeah, on Danny Levy, Matt, I think it's been about 24 years or so. He's been sort of synonymous with this club. And you know, you, a lot of the people that would have been in football when he first started at Manchester United, Chelsea, some older heads. Now he's one of the older heads in a new emerging market in the Premier League. It's fair to say that things have changed a lot in football since Daniel Levy took charge at Tottenham Hotspur.
- [04:15]
Football Analyst
Oh, absolutely. I mean, he's, he's one of the constants, isn't he? And as the Premier League has got more international, more, more American in particular, I think Levy has come to represent in many ways the old style, you know, Mr. Big Buys, your football team owner, which are actually, they're almost out of fashion in the championship. You know, you have to sort of go down to League one and League two to still find that model. So he is in some ways a throwback, but I think that would be to perhaps massively oversimplify the situation. And him, he's a thoroughly modern football thinker and he's very highly paid chief executive, has been for quite some time. You know, he doesn't run spurs in a kind of old fashioned way. He very much runs spurs, though it's not by committee there. And look, his status within the league has grown. You know, there's no question of that sometimes, certainly fans raise eyebrows at the entire concept of spurs being this sort of permanent member of the elite. You Know, we've sort of seen big fours and big fives and big sixes, but certainly spurs have sort of been in this big six for, you know, about a decade. And people are like, well, hold on a minute, you know, what have they won? You know, I think it's only. I think it's one League cup, isn't it, in under sort of Levy's time. And you have to go all the way back to 1961 for, for a league title. They've only won two. So, you know, there are certain sort of questions around the honours board. However, I still think they've won the sixth most number of trophies, I think, in English football. So, you know, that kind of fits. And I think certainly, as I said, in this last decade, there's been a. There's been sort of tears, very clear tears within the league. And spurs have sat with that top six normally right at the bottom in terms of its revenue. In terms of his wage bill in particular, that's again sort of part of the whole Levy story, that he's run them like a very tight ship. They have been one of the more profitable clubs in the entire league, to be honest. But, you know, Spurs, I think it's not just the fact that they sort of kind of hang out with that big gang. They do the numbers. I know it's not, you know, we don't do bus parades and what have you for numbers, but that. But there are. Their accounts are kind of elite.
- [06:24]
Jack Pitt Brooke
They got the fourth biggest revenue in the Premier League for the 20, 22, 23 season. £549 million.
- [06:30]
Football Analyst
Well, quite. And on his watch, and in particular, things have really changed off pitch. Right. So the stadium is, of course, the, the big thing. And that is now, I think, reflected and I think we're going to get into this, into club valuations. So, you know, if you look at, let's say the media outlets that sort of do these, I mean, these, these club valuations every year, these reports. And there's two in the States that sort of jump out there, Forbes from Sportico, and there's another one that it's in Europe, it's called Football Benchmark. And if you look at them, they all have spurs pegged in the top 10 in Europe. They all have spurs in a sort of range from about seventh to ninth. I think it's literally seventh, eighth and ninth. They have spurs marginally above Chelsea. One of them, I think it's Sportsco has Arsenal ahead, one of the other two have Arsenal behind. So they're in that Bracket. They're in that bracket of those of those three London clubs. There's mild disagreement over the valuation because it is art, not science. But they clearly believe that spurs belong in that gang. And I think it is that accumulation of prestige, of fan base honours in the past. They genuinely are a global club and, you know, our readership numbers can attest to that. And that stadium, that stadium, the London address, makes them elite.
- [07:49]
IO Akamolera
And in being elite or trying to be more elite, Jack, you know, Levy has definitely spoken about the need for investment in the past. I mean, how concrete is this and how concrete does it feel as if they're actively looking for it?
- [08:02]
Jack Pitt Brooke
Yeah, so. So Tottenham took the slightly surprising, at least to me, step of in April when they published their accounts in 2022-23 season. There was an accompanying statement from Daniel Levy at the bottom of which he was very, very clear about spurs search for investment. He wrote in the statement, to capitalise on our long term potential, to continue to invest in the teams and undertake future capital projects, the club requires a significant increase in its equity base. The board and its advisors, Rothschild and Co, are in discussions with prospective investors. Any recommended investment proposal would require the support of the club's shareholders. Now, I mean, it had been rumoured for quite a long time that Tottenham were interested in investment, in getting somebody to most likely buy a stake in the club. But before I opened that bit of the spurs website that morning, I was not expecting them to make it so explicit, so clearly. And you talk to them, they're very open about what they're looking for. The speculation generally is around, let's say a 10% stake of the club for, let's say, £400 million. Sounds like a lot of money that I think is the region is kind of in an ideal world, what they would be looking for.
- [09:18]
IO Akamolera
I'm looking at the figures and we're talking 400 million for maybe a 10% stake, Jack. And, you know, I think the club, from what we've written, is valued around 4 billion, right? So I'm looking at an initial investment of peanuts compared to that 400 million. Matt. Jack, please help me here. Is this about elite football or is it also about. Actually, we could make some pretty decent money here. This is pretty good money.
- [09:43]
Jack Pitt Brooke
So I think the belief internally is that spurs are kind of under. Equitised is the word that's been used to me. Matt might be better at explaining what exactly that means, but I think it kind of comes from a belief that even in the era of psr, there's still a big gap between what Tottenham can do and what their rivals can do. And there's a lot of stuff that the club want to be able to do. I think they would like to be able to maybe throw their weight around a bit more in the transfer market. But I think, I think there's an acceptance that they can't in the current position that they're in, that they don't really have the capacity to compete on the same level as certainly like the biggest teams in revenue terms, City, Liverpool, Manchester United, who are still ahead of, you know, ahead of Tottenham financially, even with the strides that spurs have made in the last five years.
- [10:32]
Football Analyst
Yeah, I can sort of, I think, simplify this for everyone. There's a lot of ridiculous financial terminology used these days in football. It's fine. They just need a new investor. Right. They need another great working, great injection of cash. So that's what they mean by under expertise and that's fine. I think we talk about this quite a lot. There aren't many other clubs in the world that wouldn't say something similar. I think Jack's point is really interesting. So their matchday revenue post move is absolutely fantastic and I think there's, there is some scope there to increase that. Again, the London address helps. The fact that it is absolutely state of the art, an amazing, amazing home. The fact it already has sort of built in versatility. So that relationship with the NFL, it's use as a concert venue. They're already getting their license tweaked so they can do even more of that. These are the things that other clubs, and I'm thinking, you know, Chelsea, Arsenal, a lot in their peer group, Man City are jealous of.
- [11:31]
Jack Pitt Brooke
Right.
- [11:31]
Football Analyst
So spurs are already smashing out of the park in terms of match day and I think they can do more. And I think that is part again of this capital injection. I think there's more they can do around the site to turn it into a everyday venue. That again is one of the buzzwords in football in my lifetime. Certainly, let's say the last 20 years of sort of kind of doing this job time and time again. I hear your stadium is depending, you know, your players as well. Obviously those are your most valuable assets and you've got to use that asset more than 25 times a year. You've got to use it every day. Levy gets that, spurs get that. They're doing it well done. Where they still lag. And this I think goes back to my previous answer about how elite are they? Right. You know, are they truly in the gang or are they sort of hanging on the edge? They've got to boost their commercial income and they've got to boost their broadcast income. Now if you look, broadcast income is basically prize money. So they have had years where their prize money's been pretty good and they've been up there. They had that good run. Jack, remind me here, was it three years in a row they were sort of third, second, Third?
- [12:39]
Jack Pitt Brooke
Yeah.
- [12:39]
Football Analyst
Under casino. Yeah, exactly. So their prize money, their broadcast money would be good that time in those years. And of course they, they went to the Champions League final as well. So they had do that. That's what man, that's the Manchester City story. That and their commercial income, which of course is a subject of umpteen podcasts. But do well on the pitch. Your broadcast income goes up. Qualify for the Champions League every year as they were sort of doing under poch. Sort that out, do that over a period of time and your commercial income goes up. That, I guess is the Liverpool story. Ongoing, consistent success. Grow your global fan base. Play in big matches in the Premier League and big matches in the Champions League. So those are the bits I think that spurs have unsightly underperformed on over the, you know, over this sort of 20 year period. That is the sort of simple story here in terms of their valuation. My God. Well look, how do you value anything really? It's basically what people are willing to pay. On those three reports I did actually sort of look at the numbers that the three reports. So this is Sportico, Forbes football benchmark. They're all out there, easy to do. And there are other reports as well. Nobody, nobody values spurs at 4 billion. The, the, the sum here that Levy is, is doing is he's basically saying because we're elite, right? I've said we're elite. We're elite. We are now going a revenue multiple. That's the best way to sort of get a kind of benchmark for your club valuation. So you take your annual revenue, you basically apply a multiple. Now in the NFL, which is the sort of gold standard, no relegation, shared revenue, everyone makes money. The franchises are going at 8 to 10 times. In the other US sports is slightly less. Newcastle, right, went at double their valuation. Their annual revenue 300, they'd make about 150. They went to 300. Chelsea when they went for two and a half, it was about five times. Man United went at about seven, eight times. So they get it. Man United, the most famous football club we've got. Massive stadium, huge revenues, went at a sort of bottom of the range NFL multiple are Spurs. There are Spurs, Man United. They're not. Are Spurs a bit more like Chelsea? Yeah. So maybe a multiple of about 5, 5, 6. That gets them at under 3 billion. That gets them exactly where Sportico, Forbes and Football Benchmark have them at a range of between two and a half and 2.9 billion. So Levy's basically applied a whacking great 33% premium on what pretty much everybody in the industry thinks spurs are worth. Fine, go for it. You never know, someone might go, yeah, fine, I really like your stadium, I really like your shirts. But look, you know, are they worth 4 billion? No.
- [15:25]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamwalere.
- [15:32]
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- [16:35]
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- [17:12]
IO Akamolera
Jack, let's face it, talk about investment. We talk about all the money that potentially come in. But surely as well as bringing in new players in a transfer kitty in a wonderful stadium, stuff on the pitch still needs to make sense. This team still needs to operate properly on the football field and Win games.
- [17:30]
Jack Pitt Brooke
Yeah. And Matt talked earlier about the Pochettino era. They're obviously not as good now as they were then. You know, the accounts last season, sorry, the 22, 23 season, they got this fantastic, they broke through £500 million of revenue for the first time. But when the 2324 accounts come out, there's going to be no European football in there. You know, they're going to. So they will have missed out on what, I don't know, eight, ten games of foolish stadiums and then TV money as well. So clearly like the inconsistency on the pitch which they've had in the last five or six years is obviously going to have a knock on effect on how much money they can bring in. And so it might be that the postecoglou era takes them back to consistent top four finishes, but it might not. You know, there's a lot of other good, good teams around there. I wouldn't be surprised if spurs finished fourth this year. I wouldn't be surprised they finished sixth or seventh. So yeah, it's kind of, it's difficult to separate the two. But if they're not in the Champions League this season, and I do think it's possible we should say that the, if the Premier League does get that fifth Champions League place this season, then that's obviously, you know, perfectly set up for Tottenham. I think it was kind of, it was a bit of a surprise really that they did not benefit from that last year. And if they're back in the Europa League again next season, then obviously that has an impact on the kind of the prestige and the brand of the whole brand.
- [18:50]
IO Akamolera
Matt, is it just another glimpse into the, the wider symptom that is the state of muscle you need to operate within the Premier League. And we're talking top four, top five. I mean, I'm looking up to top six, top seven.
- [19:03]
Football Analyst
Yeah, is the really short answer. You know, look around the league, right? We started off by saying that in many ways spurs are a bit of a throwback, right? So a sort of an era of local British guy. The Joe Lewis story is a really, it's a cool story. I mean it might not have had a cool finish or certainly recent chapter, but you know, he is the sort of self made guy. So that era in top flight European football has gone in the NFL. You still sort of kind of get it. You get these sort of families that have owned these clubs for years and years and years and they never give them up and they're on to like second, third, dynasty but that's, that's not really what we're seeing in the, in the Premier League. I mean just look around you know man, City, Newcastle, you know, kind of state, state backed to varying degrees. You know, Manchester United, you know, big US sports entrepreneurs now with teamed up with Britain's richest man, you know and Liverpool, a big US sports syndicate full of, you know, very, very savvy investors. So Arsenal again, ludicrously rich US sports entrepreneurs with, you know, kind of a relationship with one of the richest families in the state. So you know that that is the peer group and I think Spurs, I think also and, and Levy will get this in the last few years. Whilst I would say their position within that kind of group is just about justified certainly on the balance sheet now Leicester of one more things and for a time Leicester were desperately trying to be the best of the rest. Look at Villa. Villa are owned by ludicrously rich people and they are I would argue better than spurs right now. So spurs position is not secure. It's not forever good. These things should not be forever. It distresses me that they were starting to look like they're forever. So I think there is a realization that one, if we're going to win something and we haven't been very good at that, we need to do a bit more and two, a bit defensive. We have to move on, we need more help. So there's a bit of both going on here. As I was saying as well about kind of like estate management, you know, we're coming to the end of the Joe Lewis era. Whether we like it or not, these things are all happening at the same time. Spurs have to do something. There is an enormous, a lot of interest, enormous amount of interest, sorry, in European football, particularly English Premier League football from North America at the moment, waves of money. It's not hard at all to get someone to look at you. Not hard at all. There are dozens of very rich Americans, private equity funds groups, dozens and dozens that would take a look at Spurs. Spurs are a very, very, very attractive option. It will come down to price. It will come down to the amount of control that Levy's willing to give up. Give up. It will come down to their belief in the sort of spurs vision. The spurs project leave these management skills. It will come down to all of those things but someone will invest in spurs now would it again. Then I think we get into. Is it then a pathway to control? And then I think we get into. And this is why I'd love to hear what Jack thinks You know, the word in the industry is that, you know, Levy doesn't really want to give it up. You know, he'll be carried out of spurs and I hope, but I hope that's not for years and years and years. Right. Because, you know, he has, he has been very good at running them as a business. He doesn't really want to give up control.
- [22:22]
Jack Pitt Brooke
Yeah. My impression has always been that he wants to stay in control even if there is external investment. It's not like Daniel Levy wants to hand over the steering wheel to somebody else. He wants to continue running it even if there are big kind of changes to the shareholding. He loves it. He's been doing this for, I think he became chairman in February 2001. So he's been doing it for coming up to 24 years, which is like, you know, it's a 10 year comparable to the kind of, like we were saying, the greats of the previous generation, the kind of David Moore's, Edwards, those kind of people. So. And I think he is desperate to have his own personal legacy at Tottenham. And that legacy has to be trophy. It has. You know, he's done all this stuff off the pitch, which has been great, but I think he understands that publicly at least, or with the fan base, you know, your legacy is, has to be cast in trophies like he has. There has to be a kind of climax on the pitch. That's always been my, that's always been my impression from the outside. You know, sometimes you get people who are in these positions who are happy to, you know, they've got an exit strategy and they just want to go skiing. But I don't think that's. I don't think that's Daniel Levy. I think he wants to, I think he wants to stay regardless of what happens with investment and so on.
- [23:45]
IO Akamolera
In that case, then, Jack, I mean, so what would be in it for investors then? What would spurs be potentially offering investors in that respect? Levy's going to be at the helm. Maybe you get your 10%. But what do you reckon that might look like?
- [24:00]
Jack Pitt Brooke
It's a good question. I would say, well, a seat at the table, possibly a path to control down the line. And I don't know if it'd be directly comparable. If you look at, say, Manchester United probably isn't a good example in the sense that Jim Ratcliffe, while having not bought the whole club, does clearly have full control of football decisions, which is not what, not what I imagine would be on the table. Tottenham people might want to buy into the brand It's a hugely, it's a hugely popular brand, particularly in the us, increasingly in Asia. There's a lot of kind of glamour and prestige around the football club and I think people just want, you know, a lot of people just want a ticket to the party, like people, you know, the Premier League ownership is very difficult, but the upsides in terms of projection and, but also just in terms of fun, like if you nail it, it must be really fun. Imagine how much. I know that, I know Arsenal haven't won anything yet, but imagine how much fun people will think that Josh Kroenke is having if they do nail it. And if they do, imagine winning the league. And I think if you're, if you're that level of particularly kind of super, super rich American or kind of sports investor from around the world, you probably, you would see your, I don't know, your children and grandchildren watching the Premier League all the time at 6 o'clock in the morning and you would think, actually, I want a, I want a piece of this.
- [25:22]
IO Akamolera
Yeah. Is there something here, Matt, around someone like John Texter, who obviously got a little stake in palace, but we've spoken about it, would love a bit more power to make a few more decisions. I mean, can you not see investors becoming a bit more stressed or a bit more frustrated just sor. Being a backseater, for instance?
- [25:43]
Football Analyst
Yeah, some certainly are. I mean, you know, the text example is interesting because of course he has a big multi club model. So his problem at palace is that they've got quite a complicated shareholder structure. In fact, that I think a better sort of palace comparison is Steve Parish. Steve Parish is now, he's been slowly selling his stake. You know, he rescued the club with his mates whenever that was 10, 15 years ago, and has been diluting his personal stake but has retained control. He almost has sort of like a kind of management contract. He is a paid employee and also a small shareholder. His partners are considerably richer than him. They're all Americans and they all own other sports teams. But Parish is the main guy there. I wonder if that is a sort of model that Levy is thinking about, you know, down the line. Texas problem, of course, is that he, you know, he does, he wants control of a club and he hasn't got it there. So someone like him, it would have to be someone richer than him because Texter hasn't got the money for a Spurs would, I think, find themselves equally frustrated. But as Jack has pointed out, there are lots of motivations for ronin sports teams and there are loads of Groups, individuals quite happy to take more strategic, smaller stakes and be backseat drivers and just enjoy the ride. One of the sort of buzzwords that I mentioned before that I hear again and again and again, and it's a slightly easy one to understand, is that owning sport sports franchises is an asset class now. So that is like property or premium stocks or government bonds, they are just a thing that investors are interested in. And if actually look again, particularly in the north, in North America over the last 30, 40 years, they are tracking upwards, they are almost recession proof. The values of these sports teams keeps going up because the TV contracts keep going up. That is what drives it all. There's scarcity value for the top ones in the States. Of course they don't really lose money, particularly in the NFL and the NBA because of revenue sharing and salary caps. That's not the state the case in European football at all. But I think a lot of these guys are now thinking that European football, certainly the bigger clubs are basically relegation proof. So we don't have to worry about that. If we run them better and continue to grow revenues, global revenues, which North American sports don't tend to have, we can sort out the fact that they're loss making too. So that is why we're just seeing this wave of North American money in particular into European football. Because they're starting to think, would you know what, those European soccer teams which we thought were really, really risky and didn't make money, we think they're becoming less risky, we think they're becoming perhaps more profitable at some point. Not there yet. And they're just good things to hold because they keep going up. Because there's always someone else like me. It's not the other idiot walking through the door. Although sometimes it is exactly that. There is a growing number of billionaires and sports funds, groups of billionaires basically who want to own these things. So the price keeps going up. They're good investments.
- [28:54]
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- [29:24]
Chase Sapphire Lounge Voice
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- [29:52]
Football Analyst
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This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Acamolera.
- [30:04]
IO Akamolera
We mentioned Amanda Staveley at the top. Could she fit into that profile of someone who just sort of sits behind and has a look at things and waits for her money to gather? Matt, you know she was quite hands on in Newcastle.
- [30:19]
Football Analyst
She divides opinion in football industry circles. I think it'd be fair to say that she did a good job at Newcastle. She was an amazing front woman for that particular bid. A golf bid for a club that hated its previous owner badly, needed a shot of energy and positivity and my word that she provide all of that. It was a contentious takeover. She was dogged and determined and she got it over the line. None of that was a given. It was hard for that. She surprised a lot of people in the industry and earned their respect for that particular piece of work. That has not always been the case. That has certainly not been the case in other examples, both in the football industry and outside. She has now left Newcastle. She's now looking for something else to do. Fine. She has a very high profile off the back of that Newcastle gig. She's unfortunately had a number of legal setbacks, if you like, personal legal setbacks. She's lost some big cases, Barclays, this long dispute with a Greek shipping magnet called Restis. She's basically lost a lot of money. She never really had that much money of her own. She was lent a lot of the money to buy her stakes at Newcastle. That's all kind of been shaking out. But she does still have that great success in her back pocket and she has a high brand and she has an amazing ability to network. I've. I've sort of witnessed it. She was at a big sports business conference last week in London called Leaders. She was a sort of invite only private offshoot of the main conference talking about Middle east investing in the Middle East. So, you know, the relationship with Saudi Arabia still appears to be pretty good, although I have heard some dissenting views on that. She is certainly out there and she's not being particularly private about it, looking to raise more money for her next football venture, and that is Spurs. Now, none of that is in dispute. She's talking to everybody, talking to the Qataris, as I said, Saudis, North Americans. She's trying to put together a fund. She. She's running around telling people she has that fund. I again, speak to people in the industry all the time who say that's not quite true. She might have some expressions of interest, but it'll be very much a sort of. Kind of, well, let's see who else you get. Let's see what sort of price you get out of Daniel. Let's see. Let's see where we go with this. It is not a guaranteed sum of money sitting there waiting to go tomorrow on an investment. But, you know, she's been written off before. She is a survivor. She's a force of nature. It would be. It'd be a mistake to write her offer again, do I think, to go back to your very, very first point, that she is a natural fit with Daniel Levy? No. I don't know. Jack. No, Jack, Jack, please jump in.
- [33:12]
IO Akamolera
You can feel it. You can feel it. Too high.
- [33:15]
Jack Pitt Brooke
It's always been my view on this that I would be very, very surprised if Stavely were to be the minority partner of choice for Daniel Levy. When I. When I think in my head, which is something I've thought quite a lot recently, what sort of a minority partner would Daniel Levy like to work with? My impression is that he would like to work with somebody very anonymous, very discreet, very rich. And it just doesn't strike me that Amanda Stavely ticks those boxes in quite the same way. Like she's a kind of disruptor, I guess is the best way of putting it. She's a great broker. She generates a lot of noise. And I just. Whereas I know that the way that the kind of inside Tottenham, they're very proud of how they have run things, kind of like a family. I mean, it's not one family. It's basically been two families, the Lewis family and. And Daniel Levy. But they, you know, they've kept the ship afloat in a pretty calm way through some pretty choppy waters for 24 years now. And it just doesn't strike me as a natural, as a natural fit. So it's always. Even though clearly Amanda Sabi is working very hard on this and she's. It sounds he's quite bullish, I would be surprised.
- [34:30]
IO Akamolera
Do you think fans are Ready for a newer or different type of structure, Jack, a bit of investment, shake things up a bit. Reshape, quote unquote, that culture you've just spoken about, keeping things discreet because inevitably. Tell me any spurs fan who wouldn't say they would love to be playing Champions League football again, or they'd love to win the FA cup or another Carabao cup, or dare I say even the Premier League, I think it's fair.
- [34:57]
Jack Pitt Brooke
To say spurs fans views are pretty divided on this. You know, there's a kind of vocal minority who are leaving out. I thought that they, they kind of grew in power a bit maybe let's say two years ago when spurs were just such a mess and particularly with the Conte appointment going so badly wrong. I did feel at that point as if there was maybe a bit of a move of kind of moderate spurs fans, so to speak, into the levy out direction. But I feel like that's been reversed a bit because of the popularity of Postecoglo in the sense that Tottenham are probably heading in the right direction again. And, you know, they've spent quite a lot of money recently. We should, we shouldn't forget, you know, the accusation that spurs have not spent any money. Difficult to sustain that when they spend, you know, 50 plus on Richarlison, 65 on Solanke and so on. So I think that's a minority, that's very much a minority view. I think that, you know, I speak to plenty of spurs fans who say when they see stuff, you know, connect, particularly connecting Newcastle to Saudi Arabia and Manchester City to Abu Dhabi and so on, they think they don't want this to be us. But you know, equally, there's lots of fans who think, actually I would quite like the sort of financial power of the state behind us so we could go and get the very best players. So, yeah, it's a broad range of views, to put it mildly, but I certainly don't think that the fans are kind of clamoring for this particular option.
- [36:19]
IO Akamolera
Okay, Matt, let's finish on this. And tied up in the topic around ownership, you've written today about the new football governance bill that has been revised by the Labour government here in the uk and we've touched on this actually in a previous pod, but can you bring us up to speed as to where we are with that? But also I think more crucially how this could affect foreign investment into the Premier League or the efl actually, more importantly, moving forward.
- [36:43]
Football Analyst
Yeah, I get all the good stories, don't I? Yeah, yeah. Governance look, there's a lot more to say on this, I'm sure we'll do a podcast only about this. Yeah, the governance bill's back. I think the key thing for fans is this is basically the independent football regulator. The Conservatives talked about it for years. They were going to do it, they just ran out of time and the last parliament was dissolved because Richie Sunak called an election that will mean nothing to our overseas listeners. Basically we've got a new government so they're starting the process again. It will go through because this government has an enormous majority, it has cross party support, it's very popular with politicians, it is very popular with the English Football League, it is not very popular with the Premier League. The bill is coming back, it is slightly changed. It's broadly similar to the one that the Conservatives had and the one that Labour supported when they were in opposition. But it is being strengthened, I would argue in the English Football League's favor. The key thing is parachute payments, those very controversial payments the relegated clubs get from the Premier League and that persuade all the other clubs to lose their minds and spend too much trying to sort of compete with these clubs. They get an enormous financial head start and has almost sort of created this revolving door of, of 25, 30 clubs that just are in the top flight. They were going to be out of scope. The regulator was not really meant to be looking at those. The regulator will now look at those only if the regulator considers them to be kind of egregious and causing problems with financial statement, with financial stability and sustainability, which they do. So at some point the parachutes will I think be revised downwards, but a long way away in the, in the future and football itself, which is what the regulator wants, should get to that position itself. You know, the efl, the Premier League should basically get around a table as they've been threatening to do for some time and agree a new financial distribution. Now will this regulator affect investment in English football? I would argue no, absolutely not. Because to go back to one of my previous answers, what we've had hasn't really been working. The clubs are loss making even, you know, even the big ones. Maybe Man City now, you know, pre covered, some of them were sort of basically breaking even but they don't, they don't make money. We don't do this particularly well. I think I've been on 10 podcasts talking about governance problems. PSR, the Leicester City case apts. No one can tell me that football is running itself very well now and that is before we even think about why this whole conversation, debate around independent regulation started, which was the failures of clubs like Bury and Macclesfield crashing out of business. It was the panic caused by Covid when it was like, oh, my word, we're going to lose half a dozen more. And it was the European breakaway Super League, right, which was the final straw. So it's coming. It starts its passage through the houses today. This is Thursday. It will probably be law by the end of the football season. And I don't think it will scare anyone away. In fact, I think it might even help, particularly in the championship. I know clubs that are for sale, they're all for sale, certainly in the championship, have been waiting for this because they think it will help. They think it will see more money flow down the pyramid. They think it will just improve government standards. We'll get better, a better class of owner, fewer rogue owners. The financial controls will be better, we'll see less crises. I don't think there's anything to be frightened of this at all. Better protection for fans, more engagement, more consultation on things like ticket prices, stadium moves. There really is nothing in this to panic people. People, I think, are just wary of regulation and they are wary of, I would argue, primarily propaganda that this is interference and this will somehow hurt us, kill us. Oh, my word. You know, the Premier League has an enormous financial advantage over every other league in Europe. It's not going to change. It's not gonna. It's. It's a nonsense to think that a tiny modicum of independent regulation will slow down the Premier League, which is actually motoring away from the rest of football at the moment.
- [40:57]
IO Akamolera
I mean, I love the passion. I can't wait for us to do a pod on this at a later date. Matt, Jack, thank you so much for your time and Adam Leventhal will be back tomorrow. Looking forward to Arsenal versus Liverpool in the Premier League, as well as the rest of the weekend's action. Look at you soon.
- [41:13]
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Football Analyst
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