David Ornstein (2:31)

The Athletic FC.

Ayo Akimolere (2:35)

Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. Liverpool spent £450 million in the summer transfer window. Yet this squad still needs major surgery. So how do they get their recruitment so wrong? And is Arna Slot the man to turn this all around? All right, in with us today, we've got our football correspondent David Ornstein. We've also got Tim Spears and we've also got our Liverpool writer, James Pearce. All right, gents, I'll talk transfers later on, but I want to start with Liverpool. James. Their unconvincing 13 game unbeaten run was ended by Bournemouth on Saturday with a 32 defeat. Talk to me about that underwhelming performance.

James Pearce (3:17)

Yeah, it really was. Yes, Liverpool got injuries, but so at Bournemouth, I think they'd won one of their previous 14 games. You know, not long ago they lost their best player in Semeno to Manchester City. And it was alarming because when Liverpool have dropped points during that unbeaten run, it's tended to be against teams that sit deep and are just set up to frustrate them. But it was a very open game at Bournemouth and they made two horrendous errors that enabled Bournemouth to go two nil up and then they grafted and fought their way back into it. But you know, last 10 minutes they, they fell to pieces. You know, Bournemouth could have scored one or two before that. You know, the late winner from the long throw that Liverpool dealt with, which has been, you know, their Achilles heel this season in terms of dealing with set plays. I think fatigue certainly played a part because you know, of course Bournemouth had a full week to prepare. Liverpool had that European trip to Marseille midweek. But yeah, like I said, you. It's. It' no excuse for, for what they served up.

Ayo Akimolere (4:17)

Yeah. Midfielder Endo had to come on at center back. David, which is interesting. Joe Gomez obviously went off in many respects injured. We talk about Liverpool's injuries, but I mean, is that an excuse for what felt like a really underwhelming performance?

David Ornstein (4:33)

No, it's not. They obviously can still have a strong end to the season in terms of the European competition and trying to push as high as possible in the Premier League. So there's a lot still to play for. But they are thin in number in quality. It's pretty remarkable given the summer outlay. But that's always qualified by the amount they recoup. So the net spend is nowhere near as significant as the gross spend and some people think it's remarkable. I don't to say that they've still got a lot of work to do in next summer's window. People have asked why they aren't doing it in this window and we'll probably Come on to talk about it in in a bit. They're keeping their powder dry for whatever reasons. Their plans center around the summer and. And it looks needed especially in central defense, perhaps in attacking areas too in depth. There's plenty of decisions to make around contracts with again players expiring in in the summer of 2027. Key men. There's external pressure for sure on AR. I don't know whether that translates internally and yeah, the Bournemouth result was kind of that a lot of what we've seen this season conceding late winners. James in his piece the the Morning after outlined all of the factors at play here and it's hard to read that and disagree with any of it.

Ayo Akimolere (5:51)

Yeah Tim, look winless in five league matches so far in 2026. These are the former Premier League champions. What's going on?

Tim Spears (5:59)

Yeah, I mean statistically speaking it's. It's pretty horrendous and probably as bad as as it could have been. So the Weekend was their 23rd game of the season away at Bournemouth as it was last year incidentally away at Bournemouth they won two nil there last year and we're on 56 points at this stage. They're now on 36 points. So that just sort of put into context just how bad it's been. 20 points is a huge amount. You know, there were nine points clear of Arsenal this time last year. They've won five league games since September. That's five out of 18 got 21 points in those 18 games. And these are sort of, you know, remarkable and disastrous numbers. I think they've given up the title remarkably easily. We probably haven't seen this kind of waving the white flag on sort of regaining new title since what Chelsea maybe in 2016. Mourinho springs to mind when they, when they finished 10th that year and this sort of unbeaten run I think staved off criticism and talk about slot's sort of future a little bit. But that's now going to come back, you know, quite sharply after the defeat. And the next three games are tough. Aren't they all in the Premier League these days but they've got Newcastle City and Sunderland their next three. If you look at the reverse fixtures, they had problems against all three. The very, very late winner at Newcastle of course, but they lost three in City and had that one or draw at home to Sunderland so it doesn't get any easier for them. And yeah, the talk about slots just going to ramp up from here, I think.

David Ornstein (7:21)

I think the writing was sort of on the wall for what we're seeing now, as early as the opening night, James against Bournemouth, when Antoine Semenyo ran riot, there were holes all over the Liverpool team. And it was a summer of huge change and trauma and it was always likely to be more difficult in the title defence. A year into slot, people will have their opinions on how much of it was Klopp's team inherited, etc. But even when they were winning matches early on, it felt like it was papering over the cracks.

James Pearce (7:55)

Yeah, I think that's completely fair. I think it was said, wasn't it, at the time, that it's like, well, this is a sign of a good team, isn't it? You know, not playing particularly well, but still getting the job, job done. But I think you kind of knew deep down that it wasn't sustainable, that unless performance levels improved that they would be caught out. And that's exactly what's happened. And the problem has been they've left so many games in the melting pot until the closing stages. And that time Saturday at Bournemouth was the fifth time they've either conceded like a really, really late equalizer or a late winning goal. And that's, you know, that's cost them, I think, seven points at least, which is. And you think the difference that would make alone. But yeah, the signs were there from, from the start in August. There's, there's no doubt about that. And then of course, those issues have been compounded by, you know, injuries. You can't get away from that because, you know, you know, to be without Conor Bradley and Giovanni Leone, one of the summer signings, doing his ACL on his debut, you can't legislate for that kind of thing. No such a buzz around Isak when he came in at the end of the window, yet, you know, he suffers a broken leg, having struggled to get up to. So, yeah, there's been a lot of things for slot to contend with and he hasn't been able to consistently come up with the answers.

Advertiser/Host (9:16)

Yeah.

Ayo Akimolere (9:16)

Can we just talk about a couple of their key men? James, very quickly, Virgil Van Dijk. I mean, he hasn't looked like the Van Dijk we're used to seeing. And I don't know if there's a real explanation for this. I mean, I'm sure age is a big factor in there, but I'm also looking at the kind of work he has to do with a defense that I guess doesn't feel quite trusting at this moment in time based on injuries and a mixture of personnel. Is he having to do too much?

James Pearce (9:40)

Yeah, I think so, yeah. Yeah, I think it's easy to point the finger at Van Dijk because he made a bad mistake for the first goal against Bournemouth on Saturday. He held his hands up to that post match thought, yes, the conditions were tricky there, but it was too casual and he ends up paying the price. But in general, if I was making a list of 15, 20 problems, that slot has got Van Dijk in that top 15 or 20. It's not been easy for him. The fact that, you know, the fullback areas have actually improved I'd say in the last couple of months with Kirkhes and Frimpong finding their feet. But earlier on in the season they were areas of weakness and he was obviously having to cover a lot of ground. Konate's form absolutely dropped off a cliff in the first half of the season. You know, there had been signs of him getting back on track before the, you know, the tragic news last week of him losing his father. And of course the midfield department hasn't operated anything like what we saw from Liverpool in terms of being able to control and, and see out games last season when they, when they won the title. So I think, yeah, I've got a lot of sympathy for, for Van Dijk and I think, you know, yes, there's a big focus on the new signings and the business Liverpool did. But I'd say the bigger issue has been the form of players who were so influential last season. You know, I'm sure we'll come on to talk about, you know, mentioned Konate there, Salah, Gagpo, Gravenberg, MacAllister, you know, these, these players have been nowhere near the level.

Ayo Akimolere (11:10)

Yeah, Tim, that's a really interesting point. And you know, Salah for instance, 21 goals this time last season, currently just on four. He had a great AFCON, came back, hasn't looked the same in the same way as he left Liverpool. What do you tone that to? Same players, great stats last season, this season just not working.

Tim Spears (11:29)

Yeah, I mean, well, specifically since Afcon. He played a lot in Afghan. Obviously it's a, it's a huge, high pressure, intense tournament. I think in all but one game he played every minute, I think extra time in one and then what, three days after he comes back playing away at Marseille in the starting lineup. And I know Liverpool are a little bit short in certain areas of the pitch at the moment, but it's asking a lot of him to come back and just hit the ground running. You know, if you stuck a Euros or a World cup in the Middle of the season, I think we'd probably be talking about that maybe a little bit more, but just in general, yeah, four goals, four assists in the league, way down the last season. I mean there were hints of this towards the end of last year. His performances did dip towards the end of last season. I watched that Marseille game last week. I thought it was really interesting that there were quite a lot of instances where his teammates don't pass to him anymore.

Ayo Akimolere (12:13)

Interesting. You think they've lost his trust?

Tim Spears (12:15)

Well, I guess he's automatically the go to. Last season you give him the ball and he'd probably do something amazing with it. Whereas now I guess, well, they know they're not going to get the ball back for a start because he does tend to try and do it himself and I think. I don't know it. Look, it looks to me James will know more, but it looks to me like there's a frustration with him from his teammates. Not helped of course by what happened before he went to, to afcon and obviously they've changed the attack. There's different players around him, different partnerships that he maybe hasn't got used to. Frimpong being one and his, his age will be another factor but still it still doesn't fully account for his, for his sort of, you know, disappointing individual performances.

Ayo Akimolere (12:50)

Do you feel there's a lack of confidence in Mo Salah's ability this season, especially from the teammates around him?

James Pearce (12:54)

James, I mean it's a tricky. I think there's just lots of factors at play because as we said is he did tail off towards the back end the last season and of course Liverpool kind of wrestled with were they going to give him the terms that he wanted to, you know, to renew. And they end up giving him a two year extension which I think in the end was a no brainer based on his numbers because they were absolutely sensational again, you know, rewriting the record books. But yeah, this time around, you know, I think he suffered from the fact that Liverpool aren't functioning well as a unit in other areas because they haven't had that control in games. There's been a bigger scrutiny on what does he give the team out of possession. And of course the answer is not, not an awful lot. So you know, that was why that blew up before Christmas because he lost his place, because Slot felt, you know, having lost what, nine in the space of 12 games. He had to make Liverpool harder to beat and more compact. And that meant, you know, leaving, leaving Salah out because his attacking numbers were, were down and so you had to, you know, effectively he was playing an extra midfielder. So yeah, and I think also we've seen that with the evolution of the team and they are in transition, there's no doubt about that, that you know, they're having to look to the future, aren't they? They're having to find other avenues to attack teams to, you know, and a lot more of it is going through Florian Wirtz. So you know, maybe that contributes to this idea that maybe teammates aren't always looking to Salah in the same way that they did they did previously. You know, Ekatike has been a big know essentially, you know, a big, big kind of. They look to him through the middle a lot at times as well. So I think yeah, all of those, all of those factors have kind of combined to, to what we see at the minute with, with Salah. And you know, there was one moment in particular at Bournemouth on Saturday that just I, I found really alarming where he was picked out just outside the box on the right hand side. He had no one within 10 or 15 yards of him. And it was. You just thought, well we've seen this dozens of times before. He cuts inside onto his left foot and he bends it into the. And he didn't even look to take the shot on. He looked to roll across towards Gagpo and it got intercepted. And that to me was just, you know, the mark of a player who, yeah, he is doubting himself and lacking confidence. Which is something very rarely ever said over the course of his Liverpool career.

Ayo Akimolere (15:16)

Yeah, David, you know, there'll be a lot of football fans looking at this saying we told you so. Don't give him such a big contract for the season after. I mean I'm being silly there but like the reality is the performances from last season and this season from those two key players, Van Dijk Asala aren't the same in many respects. Should Liverpool be panicking at this point?

David Ornstein (15:35)

I was one of the many who said he looks in amazing condition physically, technically and could not be more deserving of a renewal. He earned it more than. But we have been in this position before with others. The likes of Ozil and Aubameyang Spring to mind at Arsenal where their performance levels seem to rise ahead of that contract renewal. They got it and then they were barely seen again afterwards. I don't think it's the same with Salah. There are maybe some other factors in terms of the team's change. The loss of Jota, his, his close friend and teammate and other factors, but it certainly leaves Liverpool in a difficult situation. That said, it was only a two year renewal and you get the feeling when you speak to people around the club that let's see how he reintegrates post afcon. It hasn't started amazingly on the pitch, but I think that was more aimed at the sort of relationship after what happened in the the post Leeds comments and if it will be harmonious then obviously they'll get through to the end of the season and make a decision. Do they go into the final year and and continue together if it's not harmonious or if the football is not going in the way that both parties want it to do they have a conversation in the summer and say now we'll look to part ways. So I think that is an area of focus for Liverpool going forward. It's not as important as the central defensive recruitment operation that is absolutely vital for them. But the Salah situation feels like we still don't have total clarity, we don't have total understanding on on what we're seeing from him, where it will go next, the relationship on and off the pitch. And so if indeed there is going to be a departure then would leave a massive hole that Liverpool are going to need to fill. And I would suspect that they're looking at that attacking area anyway, that that's why they had some admiration for somebody like Antoine Semeno that was the same position ideally. I think he sort of mainly cuts in from the right. Yeah, he can play on the left as well. And and Luis Diaz has never sort of been replaced fully. They've backed Rio and Gamoa, but he's so young that they have to bring him on very carefully and with patience. And so the Salah situation is huge, of course, and for the time being they will hope that he can regain his form and just contribute for the final four months of the season.

Ayo Akimolere (17:58)

You guys listen to us now. We want to hear from you. We're asking you to fill in a quick survey about you and your podcast habits by going to theathletic.com survey26. Three lucky entries will win £100 or $100 worth of of Amazon vouchers as well. So whether you're a longtime listener or a new one, we want your feedback. Go to theathletic.com survey26. That's theathletic.com survey 26. The link is also in our episode description. Really appreciate your time.

Tim Spears (18:35)

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Ayo Akimolere (20:17)

Tim, you know you spoke about this huge drop off considering their current Premier League champions. The one one we've not spoken about is on a slot and obviously there'll be big questions about what he does next. How do you shake off it's just a Jurgen Klopp team to where we are right now. I mean what where does this put him?

Tim Spears (20:35)

He's got a lot of problems with the team that are not easy to fix. And you know, this has been going on all season. They haven't put a consistent run of performances and wins together all season long. I don't know what the general mood is amongst the fan base, but it doesn't, he doesn't help himself with some of his comments. I think he has this habit. I'm sure James would have picked up on this in his press conferences of saying, you know, I'm not making excuses and then adding a but and then just, and then just give a load of excuses. So this week he was kind of saying, oh, you know, we were the only team to play Champions League Wednesday to Saturday. But then you look at Villa and Unai. Emery is a sort of master of, of combining and rotating his squad in Europe in the Premier League. Going to Fenerbachi on Thursday night in Newcastle on Sunday and winning both with a clean sheet amid horrendous, you know, sort of injury issues and slots kind of hinting that the squad isn't deep enough at the moment. Which you know you're not going to get much sympathy for when you've taken a title winning squad and added £450 million with players. There were also lots of stuff pre Christmas about teams changing their styling as Liverpool or changing their personnel against Liverpool. So he's not going to win himself as many, as many fans of those kind of comments and I think it feels like to me the more that he sort of imprints himself and his style on the players and the squad, the worse Liverpool have become. I don't know if it's that simplistic but you know, he didn't change the squad at all last season and it was a bit of a sort of a clop slot hybrid in terms of style. And I think senior leaders really helped pull Liverpool through last season. You could tell how good and how strong that dressing room was. But that's become more fractured this year and the more that slot has tried to take control of, of matches, you know, via possession higher up the field, the weaker that Liverpool have become. And if you do want more control and possession, you've got to have a really solid defense and the defense is just, you know, catastrophic at times. So there are so many problems there and no quick fixes.

Ayo Akimolere (22:20)

Two points on that, James. Firstly, Dubai, that the more he imprints himself onto this squad, the worse they've become fundamentally. But secondly, internally, are there any rumblings as to what the future of Arnest looks like at Liverpool?

James Pearce (22:34)

In terms of the first point? No, I don't, I don't agree with that because Liverpool have struggled this season. I think the kind of narrative has grown. That Slot just turned up and won the league with Jurgen Klopp's team, which I think is massively disrespectful to slot. When Jurgen Klopp didn't win the league with Klopp's team, you know, for a few years before he left. And I think anyone who kind of watched Liverpool last season, you'd look at the little tweaks that slot made. You know, you think about, you know, reinventing Ryan Gravenberg as a number six, playing Luis Diaz as a center forward. You know, there were so many clever things he did and so many games where he, you watched the first half and you thought they're in a spot of bother here and then he would change something Change the balance in midfield or make a couple of clever substitutions and it just felt like, like he had the Midas touch and everything came right. And yes, they ran out of gas in the last couple of months of the season, but they were very unfortunate to go out to PSG on penalties who end up going on to win the Champions League. So. And I think, I think it's just difficult to judge him this season properly when he's had so much more to contend with. From the tragic loss of Diogo Jota, to the big sweeping changes to the squad, to the injuries that he just didn't have to have last season to established, you know, world class players really losing their way now. You know, it's difficult, isn't it, from the outside to judge well, how much of that is down to the players themselves, how much of that is. Do they feel that they're not getting the guidance they need from slot? It's very difficult to kind of quantify that. What I will say on the second point is I don't get the impression that his job is under any threat at the moment. You know, yes, there's a lot of noise, of course there is, you know, especially on social media, but he's got a really close relationship with Richard Hughes. I get the impression that the owners still believe in him. He's a title winning manager. When you look at his win ratio across, you know, his Liverpool reigns so far, it's still really impressive. You know, Champions League wise, they're on the brink of qualifying for the last 16 without having to go through the playoff round and they're two points off fourth place. And yes, of course fourth place wasn't what anyone had their sights on in August, but there's still a lot that can be salvaged from this season. So yeah, I don't get the impression at the minute that despite the kind of all the noise and talk about reaching out to Alonso's people, which I'm told is not true, I don't get the impression that the patience is wearing thin internally.

Ayo Akimolere (25:10)

Yeah, I guess it's a really fascinating one because we know this is football and it's also business as well. And James paints a really wonderful picture about the harmony behind the scenes. But you know, football teams also look across the pond. Man United have got someone interim. Look at the upsurge, you know, Rossinia at Chelsea, look what's happening there. I mean, it's hard not to look across and think perhaps we could have a change. I'm not saying they are.

David Ornstein (25:35)

Couple of things firstly the harmonious external and I'm talking about pretty much every club here, not Liverpool is often not quite the reality internally. Many of these places there are stresses and strains that maybe aren't seen by the outside world. Tensions in relationships and as a result of how the team are doing and many other factors besides. So we don't know what's going on inside the club or clubs. However, all indications from the work we do is that Liverpool have no intention of changing and they are sticking with Arnas Slot until I guess at least the summer like then like many clubs they can look at how things are going but it's head down and plough on and that's kind of the way that FSG and Liverpool tend to work with the people who run the club now the the hierarchy. So that's sort of Michael Edwards and and those around him, Richard Hughes and so on. From a another perspective there are aging parts of the team. So you've got Alisson who had been heavily linked with Mexico obviously with Mama Dashvili lined up to come in but he's almost been rejuvenated. But in terms of his age and his career so far he's clearly more towards the end at Liverpool than he is the beginning. Virgil Van Dijk is about to hit his final 12 months because he signed like Salah two year contract. Salah is going to hit his final 12 months. Andy Robertson is into his last six months and is subject to a pursuit from Tottenham that although it's not progressing at this moment in time it basically just relies on Roma finding a replacement for Simicas that they're happy with. Then they would be prepared to let him go back to Liverpool and maybe that proposed move to Tottenham will still advance. We'll just have to wait and see. So if you ally that onto all of the recruitment Liverpool did in terms of Alexander Isak, Hugo Ekatike Frimpong, Kirkez Leone and so on. That's a lower age profile that those are the players that Liverpool clearly see taking them into the future obviously and do they want to ride this storm and let Slot take the team into the future? That was clearly their intention when first appointing him and then undertaking that sort of remarkable recruitment in terms of volume and you know in, in these situations and we've seen that Liverpool historically where when players cross the age of 30 like Jordan Henderson and Berto Firmino and so on largely let go it was a sort of change in approach to keep on Van Dijk and Salah and renew their deals at their ages. So Liverpool tend or their ownership, FSG tend not to back the older players. And if. I don't know if there's any dissatisfaction at the coach, but if there is, it feels right now that they might be more inclined to back the coach given that more change is going to happen in the playing staff. Now, of course it's a results industry like we talk about with Tottenham and every other club in this position, but you really felt change was about to come. In the case of Chelsea and Manchester United, the warning signs were there, the outbursts, the fan dissatisfaction. We're seeing similar at Tottenham now. It feels like it's hanging by a thread. Yes, there's a lot of displeasure among the fan base at Liverpool, but I'm not sensing that despite whispers and things you see on social media, among those who actually hold control there. James mentioned these rumors about Xabi Alonso. I've had similar feedback. However, it's the responsibility of every club to be doing their due diligence and forward planning whether they've got a really successful manager who they plan to keep on for the long term, or whether change might be coming. And Liverpool are among the sort of industry leaders in the transfer market, in the coaching market, in, in being advanced and sports science and data analysis and all that sort of stuff. And so of course they, they would be looking at possibilities for the future, but for now, their eggs appear to be in slots basket.

Ayo Akimolere (29:52)

Okay, James, David's just spoken about how Liverpool are industry leaders when it comes to, you know, recruitment and things like that. And we've spoken about it on this podcast. But in your latest piece on over on the weekend at the Athletic, you know, your headline was Liverpool need major surgery this summer. I mean, look, you know, this is a team that's pretty much spent almost half a billion pounds in the summer. Who takes responsibility of this when you talk about this team needing major surgery?

James Pearce (30:18)

Well, ultimately recruitment rests with sporting director Richard Hughes. And of course, you know, in terms of sanctioning big financial outlays, that's FSG CEO of football Michael Edwards. I think it's important because you can't be too kind of wise after the event in terms of last summer because of course when the window shut, there was a lot of positivity about Liverpool's window. And of course they go and win their first five Premier League games. And you had pundits saying, well, the title races is already over. But the one nagging fear was obviously the missing out on gay in the way they did on deadline day. And that has certainly come back to bite them. They made a big decision not to replace Luis Diaz because they felt that Gagpo, I think scored 18 goals last season was going to go to the next level. They've got Rio and Gamoa coming through. Unfortunately, Gagpo's form has dropped off a cliff. And then of course on the right side, as we've said, you know, Salah has been nowhere, nowhere near. So, so kind of weaknesses in the squad have been exposed. And yeah, I think regardless of what happens between now and the end of the season, whether Liverpool salvage something big in terms of a trophy or, and or a Champions League qualification spot, there is a lot that's going to need to be done. You know, David touched upon there in terms of Robertson, even if he stays put before this transfer deadline in January, I think the expectation is he'd leave on a free in the summer. Simakas isn't a long term option. There was a good reason why Liverpool loaned him out to Roma last season. So you're potentially needing to bring in another left back on the right side. You know, you've got Conor Bradley who'll be on the comeback trail after a really bad knee injury. Yes, you've got Frimpong, but are you going to start using Frimpong further forward as more of an option in terms of a right winger? You look at the centre back situation, you know Konate is a free agent. You've got Leone, they've got big hopes for him. But again coming back from a really bad injury, you know, Gomez, you know, is loved by the fans. He's been an amazing servant, longest serving player. But the reality is you can't rely him, rely on him in terms of fitness. He's been at the club ten and a half years and has played about 250 games. And of course Virgil van Dijk will turn 35 in July. So you have to have a succession plan in place for him. And then you look at the midfield and you think, well, that probably needs a freshen up as well. Endo has been a decent squad player for Liverpool, but that's all he is. And there's times when clearly slot needs to freshen up the midfield and just doesn't have the options on the bench. So. So yeah, there is a lot that still needs to be addressed and of course I think it's important to say the caveat when people talk about the 450 million they spent. They also brought in up to 260 million from sales. So yes, it was still a hefty amount but it's not quite like they just threw half a billion quid at it and have now faced with having to do almost the same again.

Ayo Akimolere (33:15)

Yeah, I'm just looking at where there are. And at this moment in time, Tim, in the Premier League at least, look. So they're fifth, they're sixth, I should say just a point behind Chelsea and currently still in the Champions League, still in the FA Cup. So it's not the worst season, but there's also a chance here that this team don't qualify for the Champions League. I mean, this could be quite a strange end to the season for Liverpool.

Tim Spears (33:38)

I mean, you know, we talk about the teams above them there, but they're also only three points off 11. It's tight below them. And you know, on the trajectory that they're on at the moment, if they do continue to sort of drop points with those difficult fixtures coming up that I mentioned earlier, then, you know that. Then, yeah, it will go into crisis mode if they drop down to eighth or ninth, no matter how close they are into the Champions League. Because, you know, this is Liverpool. But in terms of. In terms of qualifying for the Champions League, you know, you look at United, Man United being so resurgent at the moment with those two wins under Michael Carrick. I do think people may be slightly getting a little bit carried away about what he can do with them this season. But, you know, they are a bit of a wild card. There's no European football for them, which is. Which is a big advantage, I think. And Chelsea also made a good start under. Under Rocinha. Jamie Carragher made a really interesting point on Monday Night Football. Whether you sort of agree or disagree, I thought it was a really interesting point that he's basically saying Liverpool are fundamentally not suited to playing in the Premier League right now. And he kind of went through it in terms of that. So many Premier League teams focus on set pieces and long throws and Liverpool are struggling to cope with those. They're also struggling to cope with counterattacks and against low blocks, which you get, you know, a lot in the Premier League. Whereas in Europe the facets of that go the less prominent, you know, long throw, set pieces, counterattacks to an extent and low blocks less prominent in Europe. I mean, I just thought it was really disappointing. If that is true about Liverpool sort of not being suitable. I do think it's. He was slightly exaggerating his point. But even if it's partly true, how on earth has that happened? That you go from runaway champions to, you know, a very, a very prominent you know, Liverpool figure saying that they're unsuitable to play in this league in terms of qualifying for top five or top four. I think on balance, performances don't suggest or haven't suggested so far that they are capable of putting together the kind of run that it might need to finish fifth. I think on the balance of play, on the balance of power at the moment, you would say that they won't qualify.

Ayo Akimolere (35:32)

Okay, we're still talking hypotheticals here, James. Liverpool are still in a really good place in the Champions League. Let's say the league isn't going to happen this season or at least qualify for the Champions League next season. Based on league position, is his squad good enough to win the Champions League?

James Pearce (35:46)

I mean, common sense says no, but then you look at the kind of games that has actually brought out the best in this team and we haven't seen the best of it many times this season. But you're talking about a team that had beaten Real Madrid at Anfield, went to the San Siro and beat to, went to Marseille and wiped the floor with them 3 nil when that was looked upon as a really, really tricky game. You know, beat Arsenal at Anfield. So there is hope and you know, you've got a situation where Isak could be coming back hopefully fresh and ready to make a big impression at the business end of the season if they can just cling in there and make sure that there's something special still to play for when, when he is back.

Ayo Akimolere (36:30)

It's the hope that keeps you there, isn't it, James? All right, appreciate your time as always, brother.

James Pearce (36:33)

Thanks for joining us. Cheers, guys. In a world where January is supposed.

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James Pearce (38:15)

Foreign.

Tim Spears (38:18)

You'Re listening.

David Ornstein (38:19)

To the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akimolere.

Ayo Akimolere (38:23)

All right, let's let's head to some of the questions that have been coming in for us on YouTube. David, this one said please let him go on vacation after the window ends. Any chance of a vacation?

David Ornstein (38:36)

There is actually. I thought you were going to ask me for my screen time again which is deteriorated. Well it's actually increased from last week. The sleep time has deteriorated. The aura ring is telling me things I don't want to hear. Yeah, definitely. Normally try and get away immediately. Gonna get some peace and quiet in the school half term and hopefully not be involved in any breaking news or stories of that said, I think it was 7th February 2023 off the top of my head just when the window had closed and I thought peace and quiet went away. It's actually skiing on a chairlift and looked down at my phone which I should have locked away and but you know, there's always the temptation. And the news broke that Manchester city had received 115 charges.

Ayo Akimolere (39:28)

Right.

David Ornstein (39:29)

Premier League. And so never underestimate what could happen even outside of the transfer windows. And actually many more things are starting to happen then because everybody's so busy with player trading or in this case managerial departures during transfer windows. So I don't want to be complacent but yeah, I'm going to get away and sort of build my energy for the summer window and the World Cup.

Ayo Akimolere (39:53)

Well, let's talk about your favorite subject. Let's get on the deal sheet. Let's talk transfers. Strand Larsen's been an interesting one and Jean Philippe Mateta as well at Crystal Palace. What's the latest on that?

David Ornstein (40:04)

Never have you heard so much talked about one player who's on the bench for his club and the other who isn't hitting the target. But such as the January transfer window and I guess desperation for reinforcements or financial maneuvering. So if we start with I guess Mateta because that may hold the key. He for a long time now it's not Fresh has been keen to test himself at a higher level and why I phrase it like that is because I don't sense. Despite stories you see publicly about him demanding to leave, etc. I would suggest that's more the environment around him. Everything I hear from inside palace suggests he's a really good professional, really respectful, continues to train and play to the best of his ability. But yeah, he, he would like to move on and I guess at 28 and with a contract until the summer of 2027 and I think he's had some knee problems, etc. It would make sense for palace to trade him. It's probably the last opportunity, provided they get the right price and a replacement. That's the two criteria. The right price is thought to be a package in the region of £40 million and a replacement, I guess. Watch this space. They're looking at options, working on possible scenarios. And one of them is Strand Larsen. Matt Hobbs, who's now the sporting director at that Crystal palace, took over from Dougie Friedman, was previously at Wolves and signed Strand Larsen. So there's a link there. But Strand Larsen is being pursued by others as well, such as Leeds United, who are the only club who have made an offer for him so far. It was rejected by Wolves. Their interest remains. Strand Larsen's agent is a massive Leeds fan, the former player. So there's appeal on behalf, on behalf of the player and his representative for Elland Road. However, palace sort of stepping up their pursuit of Strand Larsen amid another club coming for Mateta. And previously it was Juventus and some others were being linked with him. But now it's Nottingham Forest. And we reported on the Athletic on Monday that they had made a 35 million pound offer. Personal terms would be no issue at all, which has raised some eyebrows because if he wants to test himself at a higher level, why might he be going to Nottingham Forest? But you're in a position in these final days of the window that intentions don't necessarily prove to be the case when you see the consequence, the repercussion, the result. And so that's one that could happen. But nothing is set in stone yet. And therefore approaching the deadline, this movement of Strand Larsen and Mateta is actually one of the key things to keep an eye on.

Ayo Akimolere (42:45)

Okay, Strand Larson at Wolves. I mean, come on. Yeah, it's not the first time he's been linked away from Wolves a player deserving of a transfer.

Tim Spears (42:56)

Blimey. I mean it's. It's fascinating the fact that, you know, there's a bit of a potential bidding war for this player who scored no non penalty goals in the Premier League this season.

Ayo Akimolere (43:07)

I didn't want to say it, but.

Tim Spears (43:08)

Yeah, it is remarkable. You know, he's. He's also, I would say, stylistically very different to Mateta. He's not. Not. He's not physical. He doesn't use his physicality very well. He really does rely on service. He scored 14 goals last year, which is why there's so much interest in him. But a lot of those were really aided by Matthias Kunya, you know, in the sort of supporting role behind him. This season's been very different, but it is. It's very unusual that a player was signed for 23 million in June. Then Wolves, I think, rejected a bit of 55 million. David deported in the summer from Newcastle, what, two months later. And now it seems like it's about the 30, 40 million mark again. I mean, it's just. It's a crazy few months. I don't blame him for wanting to leave, but he's having a poor season. He's a player who relies on service and Wolves have a team of duds, basically, who aren't going to provide him with that.

David Ornstein (43:58)

Just to chime in, Wolves are in a tricky situation in terms of what their ownership decide to do with their best players right now. I think there was a school of thought, the way the season was going, that you cash in on them in January because relegation is inevitable and you'll earn a higher price now than you will when they're championship players. Then there was this sort of upturn in form that I think made some in China, on behalf of Fosun, say, could we do this? Should we keep hold of them, try and survive or at least have a respectable end of the season? Then you might, yeah, lose a bit on them, 10, 15%. But still, it wasn't sort of a calamitous finish to the campaign. Then they had a defeat, which may measure those expectations and bring back the reality that I think, sadly, relegation's probably coming and so they're going to have to make a decision. And previously the name's being talked about with the likes of Joao Gomez and his. His midfield partner, but now it really has come down to Strand Larsen and a little tidbit of information. George Mendes, who does so much work with and on behalf of Wolves, is kind of out there in the market in relation to this deal to try and achieve as high a price as possible for Wolves, and that would then potentially entice Wolves to do the deal, because I think at this moment in time they've kind of concluded they want to keep hold of their best players unless there is an offer that's too good to refuse. So far there clearly hasn't been. But with Mendes on board and his connections in the industry and his experience of doing deals, maybe there's a possibility there that they will get a price with his help that ends up seeing Strand Larsen move before that window closes. I'm starting to reach the feeling that it will happen, but it's not there yet.

Tim Spears (45:46)

I can tell the owners, by the way, if they're not sure that, yeah, we are getting relegated this year. I don't know why.

Ayo Akimolere (45:51)

No spoilers though.

Tim Spears (45:52)

Sorry. Yeah, but I'm already planning my trip to Lincoln.

Ayo Akimolere (45:57)

But what do you put. Where does that put the fan base? Because you just cash in in January now and just accept that that's the fate and then you just sort of nimble off into the championship. Or do you actually hope that perhaps even if you are going down, you.

James Pearce (46:10)

At least get some decent football along the way?

Tim Spears (46:12)

But I think, you know, Strand Last is not going to be part of Wolves's future. That's just the fact there's quite a few players that are not going to be with Wolves in the championship next season. So I think, you know, the important of. Rob Edwards is already looking to next season and you know, bringing Matus Mane into the team has made such a. You know, he's part of the. He's part of next season's team. So no, I think the fan base have rightly given up hope and you know, there was a. There was a strong school of thought in the summer that they should have sold Strand Larsen for the price that Newcastle wanted, you know, let alone sort of six months on when the season is effectively done. So I think financially it makes it and football wise for a guy who's not even in the team at the moment, it makes sense to sell.

Ayo Akimolere (46:52)

Okay, another question from YouTube saying Fulham are seventh but their manager and best player. Wilson's contract is up in the summer. What's going on and what kind of business could they do?

David Ornstein (47:05)

Well, what a season Fulham are having. So fair play to Marco Silva and it's no wonder he's being looked at. Has been historically. I'm not breaking news here by many top clubs. Fulham want to renew him. They've offered him a new deal that remains unsigned. They're all focusing on the end of the season. But with them in such a good position, maybe they can come back to some conversations. It's not to say he will renew. He tends to leave his decisions Quite late. Harry Wilson, I think, is most likely to depart as a free agent in the summer. There are clubs looking at him for January. They will have to decide whether it's worth financing with only four months of football to go. He's 28 years old. He was not in this sort of form historically. It's amazing now, but they'll have to consider the whole picture. He will have to consider whether he wants to leave now or cash in as a free agent in the summer and have a wider choice of clubs. And Fulham will have to think about it as well. It's this identical dilemma that Crystal palace had with Marc Gay. What's worth keeping hold of him for these final months of the season? Every Premier League place comes with more money, but they're well placed. Is it now a reasonable time to let him go? If the right offers arrive, It's a pretty good position for Fulham to be in and they are really thinking of how they can strengthen working on a couple of deals as we speak. It's mentioned in the deal sheet Ricardo Pepe. Pepe, I should say U.S. men's National Team forward that's slightly slowed down because he's got a broken arm, which means he won't be able to play for a while. So either that will happen now they've had an offer rejected, or it could take place in the summer. They've got a backup that the Korean forward at Genk. And then the other player we've reported on in the deal sheet in relation to Fulham is Oscar Bob. Manchester City, and they've had an offer rejected. The talks are ongoing. Fulham, as with Pepe, are considered the front runners and will try to strike an agreement. But it's another one they could come back to in the summer and contend for him then if. If it didn't happen now. But I think a bob sale this January is expected at this point, so lots going on at Fulham, it seems. Adama Traore, which we trailed some weeks ago on the Athletic, is on his way to West Ham because they got players out of contract. Raul Jimenez in the summer. So they've got to do work in that striker and winger department and they're getting on with it while still producing really impressive results.

Ayo Akimolere (49:31)

Okay, I want to talk about another team from the West Midlands. Team him, Aston Villa. I'm really sorry, but they're doing quite well. We'll talk about their injuries in a second, David. But I mean, wow, what a turnaround considering how they started the season.

Tim Spears (49:43)

Yeah, absolutely. Was. It was a. It was a very Slow start, but they sort of quickly turned things around once they got their key players back. I think P. Torres was sort of in that team at the start of season and then Kamar sort of came into such good form. His loss is a big concern. I think he's sort of. I think his impact's been underrated. Their midfield's got to be up there with potentially with the best in the league. You know, the way that they sort of have this box of players that just seems to follow the ball all the way around the pits, whether they've got the ball or not, and then.

Ayo Akimolere (50:10)

They just attack so quickly on that midfield. David Telemans. Jacob Tandwell's report is now going to be on the sidelines due to an ankle injury. John McGinn's off Camaro, which we've spoken about. Now, there are links between Douglas Luiz coming back to Aston Villa. I mean, can I just get this right? Is he a Juventus player at this moment in time, on loan to Forest? Correct. And what does that look like? He does come back to Aston Villa.

David Ornstein (50:34)

Douglas Luis, player that did very well for them, went off to Juventus, then Nottingham Forest on loan, and therefore, if that loan is going to be terminated, you would have to do a deal with Juventus. Jacob and I have reported this morning that it's a very serious consideration for Villa. Now, he hasn't been playing a great deal for Forest, so maybe they would be open to the possibility. We reported previously that Chelsea were considering it. It seems maybe they're looking at other options Now. Juventus have received contact from Aston Villa, as I understand it, to inquire about the possibility. So we're not saying this is done, of course, that could change very quickly, but certainly it's something that is being talked about at Villa and they may well step up that pursuit in the next hours or days. They've been pretty proactive in the market, you know, with the Tammy Abraham deal and trying to do what they can within their financial constraints to improve. And this, interestingly, could be the latest one.

Ayo Akimolere (51:33)

Okay, I think that's everything covered for today, gents. Appreciate your time as always. Tim, Dave, and also James, who joined us earlier. And also thank you guys for joining us too. We'll be back soon.

Tim Spears (51:44)

You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroot.

David Ornstein (51:48)

And Jay Beal, with editing by Paul.

Tim Spears (51:50)

Iliff and Nick Thompson. The executive producer is Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows.

David Ornstein (51:58)

Search for the athletic wherever you get your podcasts.

Tim Spears (52:01)

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Tim Spears (52:05)

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