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Adam Leventhal
The Athletic FC podcast network. There's been two football tournaments in the United States this summer. The Club World Cup, Bellingham with a terrific strike. Messi. And the CONCACAF Gold Cup, Diego Luna deflected in Diego Luna getting it done. Both had a Saudi Arabian influence on the field. A huge result for Al Hilal. But the link was even stronger off it. The tournaments were commercially strengthened by the kingdom's wealth. That's the plan, right? They want to be everywhere. That when you turn on soccer, when you turn on football, that you see the Saudi brand. It's all part of a grand plan to invest heavily in sport that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman or MBS is open about. If it's sport washing going to increase my GDP by 1% and then I will continue doing sport washing. But there are elements of what happens in Saudi that remain in the shadows. If we let this slide, we will all be next. I will be next. I was literally told that I will be next. Yet Saudi Arabia moves forward towards hosting a World cup and even greater geopolitical influence. Today we reaffirm this important bond and we take the next steps to make our relationship closer, stronger and more powerful than ever before. This is Adam Levanthal with a special episode of the Athletic FC podcast. At what cost Saudi Arabia and soccer. We all by now know three key things when it comes to Saudi Arabia and football. The nation's Public Investment Fund, or pif, controls one of the Premier League's biggest teams. At long, long last. Newcastle United are winners. There's the Saudi Pro League built around a global football icon and PR machine, Ronaldo. How about that? The World cup in Saudi Arabia. That will be the most beautiful one ever. And of course they will indeed be hosting the game's biggest event. The host of the FIFA World Cup 2034 will be Saudi Arabia Madrouk. But during my time here in the States this summer, I've seen how their influence on the game goes way beyond this. I've travelled to Miami, Austin and Las Vegas and witnessed firsthand their soft power at play. Both FIFA, the world governing body and concacaf, which covers north and Central America and the Caribbean, have showed their hand when it comes to their links with Saudi Arabia with broadcast and partnership deals key at these two tournaments. The home of football as of now will be our joint venture, our partnership between DAZN and FIFA. Plus it will be incredible. We'll analyze this strong bond and hear what these Saudi backed organizations and governing bodies have to say. The Saudis want to be in it and you know they have A right to be in it and we have a right to engage with them. We'll speak to Saudi players and fans who celebrate the exposure with the vision of our Crown Prince. Everything is set up perfectly, but also pivotally, those who fear its impact. Nothing had changed. The people still being arrested for speaking up their minds. The freedom of expression, it's not there. The new people has arrived. Miami. Welcome to the beatbug World Cup 2020. So out on the pitch in front of me here in Miami, a really symbolic fixture at this new supercharged club World Cup. The most successful team in Europe, the world renowned Real Madrid, including Jude Bellingham, new signing Trent Alexander, Arnold and Vinicius Jr. And many more against one of the jewels in the Saudi crown, Al Hilal of the Saudi Pro League. The country's most successful team from a nation that has shifted the sands of the global game. Before, we used to travel to England, Spain to see a good football. Now it's our time. We have the World cup coming, 2034 and we want to build something that will show the people how good we are in football. Tell me about your feelings on it, because it's not necessarily seen positively everywhere in the world. Yeah, I'm aware of the. I'm familiar with what they're saying in the Western media and in the global media in general, the sport watching, but about the money. Nothing can be built without money. I mean, the English Premier League was built with money. Let's not lie. Sports is a very good tool to build the soft power. Soft power is very important for every country. If you see the backlash after we won the 2034, if a country like Indonesia or India, a country that have a very good image, they will not face the same thing. We suffer decades of bad image in terms of the sort of the image of Saudi Arabia now, especially in the United States, having the name up in lights for this club World Cup. Tell me about how you're feeling about your country. Very, very proud. I love my country regardless, but I am very, very proud. Tell me about the power of the Saudi Pro League. How big can it get? Well, it's getting bigger and quadruple the size each year. We started two years ago and it's being more competitive year after year and we know it's going to be better and better. So stay tuned for next year and see what's going to happen. Cold beer, cold drinks. What's up, buddy? How's it going, man? Al Hilal are one of four PIF owned clubs in the Saudi Pro League and they qualified for the Club World cup by winning their fourth Asian Champions League title in 2021. But would they be punching above their weight in the U.S. this to level it for Al Hilal. Five minutes before halftime, it's ne Cooley calmly placed past Courtois and Al Hilal have their leveling goal in Miami. The answer was no. From holding Real Madrid 1 1. In that Miami opener, Al Hilal went on to beat a fellow state owned superpower, Abu Dhabi's Manchester City, and make the quarterfinals. This is Joan Cancelo. Oh, what a pass that is. Malcolm has to be onside. He was inside his own half. Malcolm. It led to FIFA president Gianni Infantino declaring a new era of club football had started. Mabrook Elf Mabruk Al Hilal. Congratulations to Al Hilal here in Orlando tonight. Al Hilal's financial muscle convinced coach Simone Inzaghi to leave Inter Milan after he'd led them to the UEFA Champions League final. Simone. Hello. Adam Leventhal from the Athletic. You've taken on a big job, a big challenge. You have to improve the team, but you've also taken on a job that is about improving the image of Saudi Arabia as well. What have you been told about what you need to do and what you need to deliver for the club and for the country? Clearly my ambition is that of the club, to try to grow even more, to help our Hilau become one of the most important clubs in world football. My job will be to improve the team, the principals, the organization, everything. Here's the Athletics City. A reporter, James Horncastle. There was a feeling that, do you really want to go out like this on the back of a 50 defeat to PSG? Surely you want a different end to what has been a really successful time at Inter. But, you know, I think there are a couple of things here, transformational money, which that's not nothing new with the Saudi pro league, but for it to be transformational for money for a guy who's had a career as a football player and a successful career as a coach, and it's still transformational, it's quite something something. And then the squad he's got is, is a very good squad. And maybe this competition which is, you know, Saudi backed with kind of, you know, Piff being a sponsor, we saw their advertising around the pitch. Piff buying 10% of Dizon, that maybe this is a platform for these Saudi clubs between now and their own World cup in 2034, where they want to make a real impact in this competition. And maybe they've pitched that To Inzaghi. Not only the money, there are prestige tournaments that you can lead this team in. Not only the Saudi Pro League. Okay, so let's expand on what James mentioned there. The Club World cup is a tournament with Saudi money at its core. Nine days before it started, FIFA announced PIF as an official partner. When a pioneering investment inspires you to go further than you ever dreamed you could, that's the PIF effect. They would feature alongside eight others Airbnb, Visa, Budweiser, bank of America, Coca Cola, Hisense, Lenovo and Qatar Airways. But PIF are by far the heaviest hitter, worth $930 billion alone. Neither FIFA or PIF would confirm the value of the Club World cup partnership. But the governing body did concede that rights packages do differ in value. Now, part of Saudi Arabia's strategy during both of these tournaments, the Gold cup and also the Club World cup, is to be very visible, and that includes during the games as well. On the advertising hoardings at the Club World cup, we've seen those three letters, P, I, F, going around on the boards. Invested in better is the tagline. Well, the Saudi sponsors have also been evident here in the press conference rooms behind the managers. Let me just take you through this door. They have also been here at the mix zones at the stadiums, where the players filter through and sometimes stop to speak to us. Outside the ground here at the Hard Rock Stadium is a very sort of traditional thing that you may well see at sporting events. You have tents of different colours promoting different products. But then, interestingly, outside the stadium here in Miami is one that is all green and it bears those three letters, P, I, F, highlighting their official partnership for this FIFA Club World Cup. So Maia is here sort of fronting this activation and you can tell me what this is all about. Yeah. So we're here at the Hard Rock Stadium in Miami. PIF has had an activation going on. We've got a 360 photo booth for fans to engage with. We've got a Test yout Accuracy mobile game, all to win two tickets to a FIFA Club World cup match. So it's been a pretty exciting thing that the fans have been excited to join in on here in Miami. Hello. Hello. How are you? Fine, thank you. You? Can I just ask you a quick question? Yes. So you're queuing up outside this big green tent with those three letters, P, I, F. Do you know much about them? To be honest, I don't know. Do you want to know who they are? Yes. So they are the public investment fund of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia. And so you're queuing up because you've got an opportunity to win some. Some tickets, but you don't necessarily know anything about pif. Exactly, but I want to win the tickets. And do you have any position, you know, on the. On the politics or the sport of Saudi Arabia in any way? To be honest, I think Saudi Arabia put a lot of money in all sports and they want, like, a live sport in the golf, like F1, like football, soccer. They are going to have the World Cup. All right. But I think it's okay because I was in the World cup in Qatar and it was perfect. Do you know much about these three letters? Pif? I have no idea what that means. So this is the public investment fund of Saudi Arabia. Did you know that? Nope. Well, you know now. All right. Do you know anything about what this tent is. Is the public investment fund Saudi Arabia? Okay, so you do. So you know about it. Exactly. So tell me about what you know of PIF and why you were drawn to them. They are a FIFA sponsor and they are trying to get more attention to their country for the 2034 World Cup. I spoke to a representative from PIF who explained that leveraging football as part of Vision 2030, an ambitious plan to transform the nation, makes sense as it's the number one sport in the country. And they want to try and build on the positive association they have with Newcastle. Excuse me, sir. Hello. Are you a Geordie? Not a Geordie, but a Newcastle. Found my life. Okay. So you're. I suppose you're at home here. This is. This is. Is this Al Hilal your other team? Apart from Newcastle? It should be. Right. I just saw the PIF10. I thought I should walk that way and say hello. Yeah. So tell me about it, because obviously you're very much in the camp of pro Saudi. Yep. There'll be others that aren't, obviously. And you will have probably had to defend yourself and your team against that. As long as you keep politics out of it, I'm okay with it. You know, Man City, even Blackburn did it. Bought their way to success. So if we do it in the right way, I'm all for it. Jack Walker bought Blackburn. That was one bloke. It wasn't a country, was it? Yeah, but it's still a lot of money and people are complaining that we have the money, you know, so every other club's had their turn. We've been in the doldrums for a long time under Mike Ashley. So again, long as Politics, stay out of it and it's just investment in football, then I'm all for it. It's hard to separate politics, though. PIF's visible presence in the US in particular isn't by accident. I've never forgotten the exceptional hospitality showed to us by King Salman, who's just. We talk about a great man. That is a great man. That is a great man, a great family. That was US President Donald Trump in Saudi in May, the first major visit of his second term. He was there to solidify and celebrate the economic bond between the two countries, just as he did in his first term. FIFA president Gianni Infantino was there, too. The World cup is here. Johnny. Just stand up, John. Johnny. Thank you, Johnny. Job, Johnny. Great job. Infantino claims the GDP of the global game is $270 billion, with 70% emanating from Europe. He sees Saudi and the US as an area that provides unexploited potential which could see that figure reach half a trillion dollars. Good afternoon. Great pleasure. Let me say, to be here in beautiful Riyadh. To be here. It's not just a beautiful country, it's a country that invests a lot in soccer, in football. The US is the foreign territory where PIF invests the most. Over $170 billion directed to the US economy since 2018, twice as much as that pumped into Europe and the UK combined. We'll discuss the impact of political instability in the Middle east region later on. But Saudi investment into FIFA is deeper than just the PIF partnership. Let's welcome in another player. We are dazn, the global home of sport. We're changing how the world watches it. Interactive, immersive. You're not just watching, you're shaping the game. In December, the same month Saudi Arabia was awarded the 2034 World cup, the streaming platform DAZN paid FIFA $1 billion for the club World cup broadcast rights, which up to that point had been tough to shift. In February, it was revealed that PIF's sports investment arm, Surge, had bought a share in DAZN for $1 billion. The following month, FIFA announced the Club World cup prize money would be. Yes, you've guessed it, $1 billion. So, just simply following the money, it may appear that Saudi Arabia, after winning the right to host the World cup, were able to help FIFA in return, via Dazn, to fund the Club World Cup. FIFA and PIF contest that theory. For a feature on the Athletic, my colleague Phil Buckingham spoke to Dazn's chief executive of growth markets, Pete Oliver, about The hypothesis, people construct a triangle, don't they, between Dazn Saudi. Well, you could have said, is that unfair? I think it is. As you heard, he said, I think it is unfair. He also highlighted that Dazn would have done that club World cup deal regardless. Their primary investor, Access Industries, has invested more and that the PIF money is to launch a new service in Saudi Arabia. There are other elements that work for all parties. Dazn will now host FIFA plus, the governing body's own channel for live matches and content. Saudi have a stake in a global platform which may help them rival Qatar's BE in sports. And Infantino, meanwhile, is able to redistribute wealth to the world's most influential clubs in multiple federations. Every little helps when you're likely to want to stay on as president until 2031. So, Gianni, how important is it for FIFA this partnership with us on? It's absolutely crucial for the future of the fans all over the world. We are democratizing football together. We are bringing it in every corner. Everything that you can dream of. The home of football as of now will be our joint venture, our partnership between the Zone and FIFA Plaza next to Austin, Texas. To explain why the Saudi national team were also playing in the US this summer, concacaf's justification in the press release was that it was part of the memorandum of understanding. You know, they didn't mention the sponsorship of the pif. And we hear from those trying to hold the country to account. Money and power can buy their way out of any criminal activities. This is a special episode of the Athletic FC podcast. At what cost? Saudi Arabia and soccer. Now arriving Makalla Station. The last stop for this train is Cramer Station. Stand clear of the doorway, doors open. Right, thank you. So I've just got off the metro here in Austin and it's great, actually, because I've been in a couple of cities over the last few months, back when the Nations League was on in LA and then obviously recently in Miami watching the Club World Cup. And the traffic has been crazy. So it's been a bit of a novelty to be able to get public transportation to the stadium. And the metro stops right outside the Q2 Stadium, which is the home of Austin FC, the MLS side. And this is where the USA take on Saudi Arabia this evening. And as I look ahead of me, oh, we've been here before. There is the big letters P I F. And it's another one of those tents promoting the public investment fund of Saudi Arabia. So Concacaf's deal with PIF signed in August 2024, is not just for the Gold cup, but a multi year agreement to help grow the game among its 41 member nations. Unlike FIFA's, which is just for the Club World cup, by December, the Saudi national team were confirmed as participants in the next two tournaments, which are the regional equivalent of the Euros or afcon. They're a member of FIFA and like every member of FIFA, they have the right to participate. That's Victor Montaliani, president of concacaf, speaking about Saudi Arabia's growing influence in the game at a business of soccer event that I attended in LA in March. Obviously they have no different than American companies that want to sponsor and buy teams in Europe. The Saudis are wanting to grow their game and they see that their methodology, their strategic way, is invest in their league, have their companies invest in global football. And so they're no different than many other markets, including the one here. The last time I looked, I don't know how many owners in the EPL that are out of here, right? So it's the business of football, it's the business of soccer, as the title of this last two days has been. And you know, and the Saudis want to be in it, and you know, they have a right to be in it and we have a right to engage with them, whether it's as sponsors or whether it's as federations. Just like FIFA. CONCACAF wouldn't outline the precise financial details or length of the deal with pif. It's simply defined as multi year. There were three other Saudi tournament partners too. Aramco, the state owned energy company which also has a deal with FIFA until 2027. Riyadh Air, which is yet to fly anywhere but is the governing body's official airline. And one other too. So I'm in the fan park here outside the stadium on match day. It's very warm, it's a beautiful evening and you may well be able to hear in the background the sound of the oud. I'm stood in front of a stand which is set up by the Saudi Tourism Authority, which is one of the sponsors of the CONCACAF Gold Cup. And I was speaking to one of the representatives here and he explained to me that this is an immersive experience as much as possible, whereby you can have some coffee, you can taste Saudi Arabia, you can hear Saudi Arabia as well. That's the sound of the oud. And you can also see Saudi Arabia. There are images around. You can also have your name written out in calligraphy in Arabic if you wish as well. And it is basically to promote the kingdom to a new audience. And that is what this is all about for Saudi Arabia. So can you tell me what these are? These are Saudi dates. Saudi dates brought all from Saudi Arabia and this is basically our national fruit that comes from our like palm trees and basically they are stable in every single Saudi home. And on this topic it's interesting because Lionel Messi actually signed a lucrative deal with the Saudi Tourism Authority to promote the nation despite choosing Miami and MLS over Al Hilal. When he left Paris Saint Germain, he was required to put out a few things on social media, visit a couple of times and do some commercial appearances. But there was one other condition within the draft contract seen by the New York Times not to say anything that would tarnish the reputation of the Kingdom. I'm John Arnold from the newsletter getting conclusion. What's your take on the underpinning of this tournament by Saudi Arabia in its various guises? Visit Saudi Riyadh, Aramco and pif, which is everywhere. Yeah, it's interesting. I think they definitely have made the sponsorship visible which when they announced the partnership it was announced in a press release but even the PIF wasn't explained. It didn't say in the news release, hey, the PIF is the sovereign wealth fund of the Saudi. It didn't mention that. I did double check the CONCACAF and PIF announcements and John's right, no details of who PIF were and not one mentioned of Saudi Arabia in the 520 word statement. When it was announced that Saudi Arabia was the guest team, that CONCACAF's justification in the press release was that it was part of their memorandum of understanding what the Asian Football Confederation and had nothing to do, you know, they didn't mention the sponsorship of the paf. I think, you know, you read between the lines a bit as a sports writer. So when you say, hey, is this just for money or is this actually going to help Saudi or does this actually help CONCACAF on a footballing level? Invitees to the tournament aren't a new thing. Qatar played in two either side of hosting the 2022 World cup while Brazil are among six others to have featured since 1996. This was Bournemouth and US international Tyler Adams observation when I caught up with him in Austin. Yeah, I think it's quite interesting. I said it's kind of funny, you know, sitting on the bench watching these players play because what a unique opportunity. Like so many of these players now are playing alongside Ronaldo or Benzema or Angolo Conte who are world great players. So it's only going to help their league develop and grow just as Lionel Messi coming to the MLS is going to help so many young Americans grow. So yeah, it's a unique opportunity for a lot of them and you could just see them getting better and better. Saudi Arabia fitted in at the green themed Austin FC. And although the US won the game 1 nil, Chris Richards, the Saudi fans gave their hosts a run for their money. But Austin also felt like a strange place to be celebrating ksa, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. And it's not simply because of the city's unofficial motto, keep Austin weird. Austin is a good melting pot of crazy because. Because a long time ago the artists used to be down here a lot, but now it's a vibe Austin wants you to express yourself. Tell me about the sort of the atmosphere in Austin away from the football. Would you say that it. Is it about freedom of expression? Super inclusive, free to be you, whoever you are. That's cool. Yeah, it's really nice. Very accepting. I actually have lived in Saudi Arabia for a bit, so I've been there, so I know that world of soccer as well, or football. Are you from Austin? I'm from Austin, yeah. So I wanted to. Okay, so this is, this is a good perspective from your point of view. So Austin is all about keeping itself weird and freedom of expression and things like that. You've lived in Saudi. Can you tell me the difference between the two places? Absolutely, yes. Here in America, here in Texas, freedom to speak and express yourself is a lot more than what you find in Saudi Arabia. You gotta watch your words there and you just don't want to upset people. Basically. That's kind of the world there. I know they're opening up to more tourism, but being there from the early 90s is very kind of restricted and just not the same as the United States. I mean, the States have got its own issues, hasn't it? You know. But yeah, yeah, it's very. It's just different. It's very different. For some to the shiny image being projected by promotional campaigns, it is becoming a one man rule. He has control of everything. He is creating an environment of intimidation and fear. That's the voice of former Washington Post journalist Jamal khashoggi speaking about MBS. In November 2017. 11 months later, he was killed inside the Saudi embassy in Istanbul. According to declassified U.S. intelligence documents, MBS approved the capture or killing. It's something MBS denies, although he accepts overall responsibility as it was carried out by officials working for the Saudi government. So Jamal has been, yes, a family friend. We started working together in 2017. That's Abdullah Aloda, senior director for countering Authoritarianism at the Middle East Democracy center in Washington D.C. i think what they have done to my friend and respected journalist Jamal Khashoggi has been a turning point, not just for me, but for a lot of people, a lot of Saudis, in showing that the Saudi government is not just a criminal venture that wanted to torture people at home, but also a transnational repression project that can reach people outside. This long arm and brazenness of rightly thinking, unfortunately, that money and power can buy their way out is just insanely frightening. And we thought if we let this slide, we will all be next. I will be next. I was literally told that I will be next. The threat to those holding up a mirror to the way Saudi Arabia is governed and calling for change continues. On June 14th this year, just before I left for the States, came the first reported incident since Khashoggi of a journalist being executed, Turki Al Jasir, a vocal online critic who'd been imprisoned for approximately seven years. The Saudi Interior Ministry announced the death online and accused him of high treason and threats to national security by conspiring with individuals outside the country. The fact that his death occurred in Saudi rather than overseas meant it didn't receive as much attention, but it acted as a reminder that what is being portrayed by glitzy sports events or promotional campaigns about the kingdom isn't the whole story. Abdullah Aloda knows that all too well from personal family experience. My family have paid a toll for defending human rights and basic democracy. My father has been locked up in jail since 2017 over tweets. And my father has been a theorist and a scholar in the Arab and Muslim world. He has been facing the death penalty. 19 members of my family have been on travel ban. And then seeing all that a few years after that, seeing how MPS is being rehabilitated and how he is now portrayed as the reformer and how the red carpet is rolled out in every capital that he went to because of money, because of power, because of deals. I mean, for the World cup to be awarded to Saudi Arabia in 2034 without any essential and transformational changes in the Kingdom, that is no way going to happen within even a few years. I think the bottom line here is that we have seen the level of executions reaching a new record. 2024 has actually witnessed the worst record of executions in the history of the Arabian Peninsula. 334 people, let alone other things like arbitrary detention like treatment of immigrants, treatment of women, treatment of LGBT community. It's just like, sad to see how the world institutions, the international institutions that are supposed to hold the perpetrators of human rights violations accountable, being part of emboldening them, being part of enabling these violations and basically being part of this sports washing. Hi, I'm Sarah Mohammed. I am the unjust detention hub manager at MEDC Middle East Democracy Center. From working on the human rights situation inside Saudi, nothing had changed. The people still being arrested for speaking up their minds. The freedom of expression is still like it's not there. People are being kidnapped, enforceably, disappeared, tortured. They're not allowed to communicate with family or lawyers. Some of them got even shot and they didn't get any medical attention. They were in secret court sessions. Some of them actually didn't know what were their charges at all. I mean, just last month, two Egyptians were executed and another 26 inside Saudi Arabia. Their families were told that they'll be executed. Every time you know the details around certain cases, it just tell you that there is no process. The Middle East Democracy center, which both Sarah and Abdullah represent, support an official complaint alleging FIFA failed to implement its own human rights policy when awarding Saudi Arabia the 2034 World Cup. In our view, a very compelling case, a number of minimum human rights requirements that, in fact FIFA's own human rights policy mandates them to implement have not been focused on or implemented so far since the World cup was awarded to Saudi Arabia. That's Rodney Dixon kc, a UK barrister specialising in international human rights, one of three legal experts who, who filed the complaint to FIFA. We've given very specific recommendations of what steps need to be taken over the next period, the next nine years, until the World cup is held. They've got the time and ability to do it. They certainly have the funding to do it. And that would enrich the country and ensure that the World cup can proceed in a manner that will be free of controversy. FIFA would say that as part of their process of giving a World cup, they can enact change in offering new nations football tournaments. Would you see that as the wrong way round? Should it not be done first before giving a football tournament to a nation? It should be done first as part of the bidding process. But we passed that stage now, so the reality is they have the World cup in Saudi Arabia and it's going to have to be worked out for the reforms to be put in place. So there needs to be a level of commitment, dedication to it, and a clear plan of action that is open to everyone to See, it can't just be more generalised rhetoric about it saying, we pledge to do things, we will do things. There are certain basic changes which we have highlighted in the complaint that can and should happen right away. The complaint filed on May 15 this year has been acknowledged by FIFA, but there's been no further communication since. Elsewhere, Norway's FA criticised FIFA's award process, calling it seemingly predetermined, lacking transparency and with questions over human rights. They refused to be part of the acclamation ceremony led by Infantino, where everyone clapped on cue. I would therefore invite the Congress to confirm their support. Norway are still waiting for answers from FIFA who say that they are engaged with various stakeholders. They insist the process followed their statutes, but their own human rights assessment of Saudi Arabia registered a medium risk. And when analyzing what would be needed to change things. The term significant effort and time was used on seven occasions. Elsewhere, 133 leading women's players sent an open letter to Infantino in October 2024, questioning Aramco's sponsorship of FIFA, considering the country's human rights record. FIFA's response to the Athletic about the issue. It values its partnership with Aramco. Action has worked in the past, though Infantino had to bow to pressure prior to the Women's World cup in 2023, when Visit Saudi was proposed as a sponsor. There is something I don't understand. There is a double standard here which I really don't understand, but there is no issue. There is no issue, there is no contract. There are discussions and of course we want to see how we can involve Saudi sponsors in women's football. Generally, we can involve Saudi sponsorship men's football, how we can involve Qatari sponsors in women's football and men's football and all other sponsors from all over the world. The Athletic contacted the Saudi Arabian government concerning criticism of the nation's human rights record, but didn't receive a response at the time of recording. Next, what impact will political idea upheaval have on Vision 2030 and beyond? The Saudis want a period of stability and calm. They do not want to be caught in the middle of another conflict. And in Las Vegas, we ask whether Saudi can produce a better host team than Qatar did in 2034. You'll see a very strong team. This is at what cost Saudi Arabia and soccer. A special episode of the Athletic FC podcast. Welcome to the fabulous Las Vegas. We're so happy to see you here. Come have fun and enjoy. The ride, man, the life, the city, just the vibe. It's beautiful, man. I enjoy it. I've been enjoying it since I've been here. It's a different world. Like Neverland. Hot. Lots of mistakes. Sin City. Welcome to Las Vegas. Well, it's just gone 11 o' clock on a Sunday evening. I'm stood looking up at the faux Eiffel Tower. I can see the dancing fountains of the Bellagio Hotel. This is a place where there is a lot of shows, where the people also likes to play the machines. That's Saudi Arabia's charismatic head coach, Frenchman Herve Renard in town with his team at the Gold Cup. We will be happy if we can watch the Shakira concert. But it's the same day like in our game, so unfortunately we won't be able. Sorry. Sin City. Perhaps an unlikely location to link with Saudi Arabia, considering what makes this place tick. Mainly booze and gambling. They're outlawed in the kingdom. But the two places have more in common than may meet the eye. Saudi Arabia's multiple mega projects that Underpin the Vision 2030 transformation would love to emulate this desert success story. Around 40 million people flock here each year. But if Saudi Arabia can pull off their big plans like the region of Neom, including construction of the line, a futuristic 170 kilometer city, sports and entertainment hub, Qiddiya and resorts in the Red Sea. PIF target 120 million visitors a year. And the 2034 World cup target, including 11 new stadiums, will play a big part. Our five host cities have named a special lineup of 15 iconic venues. Every stadium designed to transform the live viewing experience. However, despite all these grand plans, there are concerns that political instability in the region could be a disruptive factor. The night before Saudi Arabia play in Las Vegas, the US military in support of Israel bombed three nuclear sites in Iran, which is just across the Persian Gulf from Saudi Arabia. A short time ago, the US military carried out massive precision strikes on the three key nuclear facilities in the Iranian regime. And in turn Iran retaliate, hitting a US military base in Qatar, a peninsula bordering the kingdom. The Saudis want a period of stability and calm. They do not want to be caught in the middle of another conflict where they could literally be in the middle. That's Christian Coates Ulrichsen, Middle east fellow at the Baker Institute think tank in Houston. Mohammed Bin Salman has his Vision 2030, which is all about these massive projects, especially on the Red Sea coastline. Well, time is running short in terms of actually developing them. They can't afford to get caught in a supply chain bottleneck or a, a situation where you have Increased freight or insurance costs of shipping things in or where companies are pulling people out because, you know, security concerns. They need stability geopolitically to just push on ahead with the, with the projects. I mean, if you remember the 2022, the Grand Prix, the Formula One Grand Prix in Jeddah took place with thick black smoke basically being the backdrop to the race because the Houthis have bombed a, a fuel depot the day before the race. And so those images going around the world of Saudi Arabia under attack are not the images that MBS wants to show. Especially now with the World cup in 2034, with all these series of major events happening in Saudi, the Asian cup in 27, they really can't afford an image of regional instability that any sustained or major war with Iran would entail. Yeah, so that's. The stakes are pretty high. Well, that is the sound of Saudi Arabia training here at the Allegiance Stadium in Las Vegas ahead of their final group game against Trinidad and Tobago. I always repeat to them, you are wearing the shirt of the Saudi national. Sometimes it's a bit heavy because there is a lot of responsibility like the political situation and infrastructure projects. The team nicknamed the Green Falcons are also a work in progress. Everyone is playing, everyone is fighting. I'm sure the national team will become stronger. We also finish with one generation where at the World Cup 2022, we had some players with a big experience. And in that last World cup in Qatar, they produce the shock of the tournament. The South Americans mammoth 36 game unbeaten run comes to a shuddering halt and Saudi Arabia celebrate a victory which will be noted right around the globe. You know how good this Saudi Arabia team can be. You scored against Argentina. Can you just take me back to that, that day and how proud you were winning at the Qatar World Cup. That was like three, four years ago. It was an amazing day, especially winning the World Cup. The best team at that time, that's Saudi and Al Ittihad striker Salah Elshiri, the national team's current most capped player with 43 and top scorer with 17, including against Argentina. Now an opportunity for Saudi Arabia and it is taken. But that was a long time ago and now we have a new squad, we have a young squad and I think me and the other experienced players, we need to help them with, we need to give them confidence to play in the top level. And I think this tournament is a good test for everyone. Well, Saudi Arabia want to be back here in the United States for next year's World Cup. But after finishing behind Japan and Australia in Asia qualifying. It's a six team playoff next for them. With two places up for grabs, they do have an advantage, but because they're co hosting with Qatar in October, then if home advantage doesn't pay off, they could still make it via the intercontinental playoffs which follow in March 2026. With there being so much attention on Saudi Arabia in terms of the way that the country is moving forward with football, how much pressure is there on the side to not only qualify for the next World cup, but ensure that you have a strong side for 2034? I think with the vision of our Crown Prince, everything is set up to be perfectly. Everyone there is working not only for the next five years, I'm sure they are planning for the next 15, 20 years. When we host the World cup in 2034, you'll see a very strong Saudi team. Renard is in no doubt that 2034 will be a success on and off the field. Since I first came in Saudi Arabia in 2019, I saw a lot of improvement in the country. Of course, I came from Europe, from Africa. So, you know, some people, they don't know a lot of things, so they judge with what they are hearing without to know anything. But this region of the world is for me the future of a lot of things. I spoke to two of Renard's opposite numbers at the Gold cup about Saudi's position in football. U.S. men's National Team coach Maurizio Pochettino. I think the progression and improvement in Saudi Arabia is constantly in the way that they are investing in not only signing players, if not in facilities and everything related with football. The only team to beat Argentina in the World cup three years ago means that they are progressing and building something special. And Trinidad and Tobago coach Dwight York. Yeah, well, first of all, I live in the Middle east, so I'm very familiar. I've been living in Dubai for the last six years. So, you know, I understand the Arabic world. I've been to Saudi and multiple times. As you can see, there is no limitation in terms of where they're trying to get to and, and obviously being the host in 2034, they have a plain objective of wanting to be one of the best. Is it a good thing? Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people may have their opinion on it. I don't think see any problem with it. The fact that players who are coming towards the end of the career, they have to look after their welfare. Hearing from York and Renard in particular, who've spent time in Saudi, is instructive. But it reminded me of what the athletics Charlie Eccleshair said on the tennis podcast after coming back from a Saudi backed event in Riyadh last year. I find it really uncomfortable when, you know, you'll talk to people who are players or be they people who are out there doing ambassadorial work and they'll tell you, but you know, we've been so welcome here. You know, everyone's been so glad to see us and sound like, yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure they are. Why wouldn't they be? You know, you're a big name and you're coming and sort of bigging up this country. So yeah, they will welcome you. There's, you know, rather than actually opening up discussion, they often serve the opposite purpose really because what you're doing is kind of celebrating the country and saying, look how much it's changed. Look how great it is. As much as it's great to play tennis, some people would rather have kind of freedom of speech and the ability to express themselves. And it's this kind of social contract from the very top, from Mohammed bin Salman, the crown prince of kind of, you can have these nice things. Just, just don't ask for anything more, don't say anything against me and you'll kind of be okay. On the topic of other sports with a Saudi connection, I caught up with this guy in Vegas too. Boom. That's powerful. That's leading boxing promoter, top ranked CEO Todd DeBouf. He's watched Saudi money sweep into his sport, including controversial figure and longtime ally of MBS Turkey Al Asheik. Read Jacob Whitehead's profile on him on the athletic. Debouf sees why Saudi Arabia has pulled the sports lever. I understand the power of sports. It takes you over. So I get it if you want to use Saudi or Turkeys or you know, the PIFs or whatever it is, how, how intoxicating that behavior is. That's where I think there's this tension between understanding. Just because you make a big fight doesn't mean the sport is doing really well or that the foundation of it is blossoming. It's great to have those events in Saudi, but are you actually separating the fan base from the product? Man U can't be playing its games in Miami, right? Maybe a wonderful facility, maybe great ownership there. You can't have all the big games so disconnected from where your fan base is. So I think that's one thing to watch. I also had a quick chat with the athletics golf reporter Gabrielle Herzig on the impact of LIV Golf long Story short, it created a massive fracture in the sport. But is it working? LIV Golf is still full steam ahead, but its tournaments are largely irrelevant. But still, liv's TV ratings are far behind the PGA Tours. Oh, and there's a new TV deal which sounds familiar. Recently DAZN purchased the rights to LIV golf tournaments and they broadcasted the tournament that just happened this weekend in Dallas. So let's get this straight. DAZN is broadcasting a Saudi backed LIV golf tournament and that tournament had Saudi Aramco as its title sponsor. It's safe to observe that the cash here injected to live golf is largely flowing in and out of the same pools and the water is extremely murky. So a different sport, but a similar story to football. Let's quickly pop back to Austin. Yeah, this has been the, the summer of Saudi soccer, hasn't it? With the club World cup and Al Hilal there and FIFA having a partnership with pif, CONCACAF having the, the same relationship, Saudi being here. It's. They have been everywhere. Yeah, there's no doubt about it. I think we can't escape the fact that that's the plan. I'm talking to The Athletics Senior U.S. men's National Team reporter Paul Tenorio. They want to be everywhere that when you turn on soccer, when you turn on football, that you see the Saudi brand that you experience, that they're a part of it. And I think when you look at what they've done from a certain sporting perspective and where they poured their money, you know, they've in some ways been the most successful in luring the top players away in golf. And yet I think the thing that's accepted them the most or where they've had the biggest impact into kind of becoming a part of the normal economics of the sport and the competitive side of the sport as well. It's actually been in soccer and football where they've become a part of that equation. They are a factor in this transfer windows. They are a part of these global competitions. They are welcomed with open arms by the governing bodies and you know, that is their intention. And obviously they're going to host the World cup, which is the biggest way to be welcomed as a part of it as well. So I think that it's, it's no surprise to me that they've been such a huge presence here in the US with the, with these tournaments that are taking place place now. My name is James Montague. I'm the author of Engulfed, a book about Saudi Arabia and its dominance in world politics and world sport. Almost everybody has their price. Even people who have strong moral issues about Saudi money, about the very real and awful human rights situation that is still taking place in the country. I mean, there have been major changes culturally in openness, but in terms of political reform, there's zero. It's one of the least free countries to say your opinion in the world. I mean, a tweet can get you 20 years in prison. It's not a free country. There's no political reform going on. We're living in a world that is more in the image of Saudi Arabia and of populist autocracy than we are in the world of. Of kind of liberal democracy. This is more Saudi world than the liberal democratic world. Saudi are indeed an investment superpower underpinning more than you might realize. For my trip, for example, I flew from Heathrow in London on a Boeing plane and then got Ubers around cities. All brands that have received significant investment from Saudi Arabia. Football is a piece of a much bigger, complex puzzle. I think as Americans, at times, we have this view of the world. You know, it's like that poster you see here's the United States, and we're over here. And then the rest of the world are these little dots coming after it. That's MLS commissioner and US Soccer board member Don Garber. We have to recognize this is a global game. We're part of a global community. It's going to be challenging at charging through some of these things. I do think that politically, as politics move around, we sometimes have to react to and adapt to the politics at the time. We need to recognize the beauty of our game is to introduce us to folks outside of the way we think and the way we act. And maybe there are things we could learn, and by the way, maybe there are some things that we could actually help them think about and understand. And. And I lean into that. That doesn't mean it's easy, but I try to lean into that. Saudi Arabian investment is here to stay, and FIFA insists football plays a crucial role in the ongoing transformation of the kingdom. The Saudi people who remain under threat, though away from the shiny new projects, are watching closely at what happens next. Allowing this to happen and allowing Saudi Arabia to make all of these deals is just a clear indication that there is no requirement, no human rights assessment made into this. And I think that that is an atrocious conclusion of our humanity. The whole idea of sports is to entertain people. But if you entertain people at the expense of other people who are going to be killed, tortured, because you are basically empowering their torturer, their killer. You're just not entertaining anybody. At what cost? Saudi Arabia and Soccer was a special episode of the Athletic FC podcast. It was written and presented by myself, Adam Leventhal. Producer was Jesse Howard. Executive producer was Abby Patterson.