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- [00:00]
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- [02:04]
JPMorgan Chase
JPMorgan Chase Bank NA member FTSE subject to credit approval.
- [02:11]
The Athletic
The Athletic.
- [02:15]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Trent Alexander Arnold is flying in the Premier League.
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Ayo Akinwale
The strike is there and it's Alexander.
- [02:21]
The Athletic
Arnold who gets it for Liverpool.
- [02:25]
Ayo Akinwale
What a moment for Trent.
- [02:27]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Alexander Arnold A year on from playing a bit part, rolling guitar and struggling for form at home, Trent is now excelling for club and country in a bespoke hybrid role.
- [02:39]
JPMorgan Chase
It's not so much whether I'm a midfielder or a fullback or anywhere on the pitch. Whether it's an eight or six, a double pivot, whatever it doesn't really matter. It's just I'm a player who needs to get on the ball. I'm a player that can and wants to dictate the game.
- [02:53]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
So is unlocking his immense talent the key to Liverpool's title challenge? And has he finally convinced Gareth Southgate that he has to find a starting place for him? For England, I'm Ayo Akimolere. Welcome to the Athletic football podcast. I'm joined by the Athletics Liverpool writer James Pearce, senior football writer Ollie Kay and also data analyst Mark Carey. Where do we start? I mean yesterday was just a game of bankers, wasn't it? From Endo to Mac Allister to obviously Trent. But we start with you on this James Trent, two weeks on the bounce rescuing Liverpool in vital games.
- [03:35]
JPMorgan Chase
Yeah, he's in an incredible rich vein of form at the moment and yeah almost too Steven Gerrard esque contributions really back to back in the Premier League to, to lead that fight back at, at the Etihad in the way he did and salvage you know, a real hard earned point against Manchester City the week before. And then yeah Sunday was something really special. I know the, the free kick was obviously taken away from him. Went down as a burnt Leno own goal.
- [04:02]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Just give it to him. I hate it when that happens. It's his goal.
- [04:05]
JPMorgan Chase
I know, I know I was. Yeah, it's not as if burnt Leno was putting his hand up saying please put that one down and up under my name. It was, you know what a moment in front of the cop late on the scenes will live long in the memory. As Jurgen Klopp said himself. I don't think anyone going to Anfield on Sunday thought that Liverpool v Fulham would be one that you'd be talking about for a long time to come. But that was how it, it panned out. And yeah, it was interesting listening to Klopp afterwards talk about Trent and leadership and, and how that's, that's been like the next phase in his development really because when Liverpool really needed him like, like they did at the Etihad the week before and other times this season, he really did deliver for them and it was another special moment for his growing collection.
- [04:52]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Yeah, for sure. And I think Jurgen Klopp even said after that match, I've never saw a game with this amount of worldies to be honest. And honestly every one of those goals was an absolute gem. Mark, let's touch on this. James just spoke about this new role he has, Trent at Liverpool sometimes they play him there sometime. Obviously it's sort of like a hybrid where they play him as a fullback. But how has this positional change been both for him and Liverpool and England? How has it affected the way he's played in the Premier League?
- [05:18]
Chase Sapphire
Yeah, well, I thought it was an interesting one myself. And Andy Jones did a piece on this kind of recently looking at how his influence has changed. I suppose. I think as much as anything we know that he can, he can do both in the sense that if you want a bit more of a playing against maybe a deeper block and you want maybe more crosses, then you can maybe play him as more of a traditional right back. If you want maybe sort of more deep progression, then you can have him in a more central position. I think that he's now proven there's not much doubt that he can play in either position. I thought it's interesting to kind of look at it from a, from a data perspective. That's my role, that's my job to.
- [05:53]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
To do so and get in there, crunch the numbers.
- [05:55]
Chase Sapphire
Exactly. And I think that, you know, it makes sense that his actual chance creation, his expected assists, which is the xg, the expected goals value of the shot that is assisted, is actually down on previous seasons, on recent seasons because he's obviously playing from a more deeper position. He's the one who's maybe starting the ball progression earlier in the attacking sequence than necessarily being the one to, to get on the end of it and play those, those simple, you know, balls across to the six yard box to be tapped in. And I think that the question that we asked within the piece a couple of weeks ago was where do you want your, your best player, your most creative passer within that attacking sequence chain? And I don't know what the, the answer is. Maybe it is horses for courses depends on the opposition. But I think it's a pertinent question to ask to say that do you want someone like Trent starting off that build up that ball progression and maybe being the one to punch the ball into the half space for a Dominik Szoboszlai to pass it to Salah who cross it in for Nunez to finish, he's still key within that attacking sequence. Or do you want him as knowing that he can put a ball on a sixpence to be the one to play that ball into the six yard box or cross it for, for Nunes to finish and to know that he has that, that creative ability to put it anywhere. So as I say, I think it depends, but I think it is an interesting question to, to Ask given how we know how creative he's been and how amazing his, his assists have been in years gone by. I think it's interesting from a tactical perspective to see how that's changed. And as I say within this piece we show that what was his most common medium to long range pass in, you know, before his, his role change since the start of last season was that kind of right half space ball to the back post. That's now his sixth most common pass since his role change. Which again shows that, you know, he's, he's not the, the one at the end of the sequence. He's far early on and that's, that's what we're seeing more commonly. But then he's also getting on the end of these, these attacking sequences as well from more central positions, having more shots rather than necessarily being the one to, to create as well.
- [07:59]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Yeah, for sure. Oli. There's a. It's really interesting resilience about Liverpool at the moment. Not obviously playing spectacularly all the time, but seems to be grinding out some really good results at this moment in time.
- [08:10]
The Athletic
Yeah, it doesn't feel like grinding, does it? It feels like sort of freewheeling a lot of the time. And it's, it's. There's been a certain chaos to a number of their games. I mean, you look at the number of times they've gone behind in games and the number of points they've won from losing positions, never mind from drawing positions late in games, it's quite striking. It probably tells you both sides of the story that they've not really been controlling games the way they were sort of four or five years ago at their absolute peak under Klopp. But I think partly belief, but partly also the, the changes that they're able to make from the bench. Gakpo had a good, good impact from the bench yesterday and we've seen it with other players. Diaz, Nunez. In other games. It feels like they've, they've very often had B or a plan C from the bench which has been able to inject that different dimension, different intensity into the game. And that I think has been a really big factor for them this season. It's not always been something you've been able to say about their forward line and midfield in particular that they've had all these attacking options to come from the bench. It often seemed that on the rare occasions they needed it. In the past it would be dei, but now they seem to be ney needing different alternatives on an almost weekly basis and with this array of attacking talents that Klopp now has, that they seem to have got that and they seem to be finding a way through. And so I think it's, I think it's as much that as resilience.
- [09:37]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Personally, James, I'm interested in this sort of relationship with Jurgen Klopp and Pep, his assistant, in sort of reigniting this passion that Liverpool do have. And to the point where some quietly are whispering Liverpool as potential title contenders, but also in the positional change of Alexander Arnold as well.
- [09:59]
JPMorgan Chase
Yeah, it's, you know, it goes right back to, I think it was the end of March, early April when Liverpool were, were stuck in a rut really, and, and Klopp and Linda's got together and, and decided that something had to change. And it was, it was Linda's idea this, this hybrid role that of course we've seen other other teams play with not, you know, not these Manchester City with John Stones in a. In a similar role. And Pepland has actually said to Klopp, look, I'm so convinced this would work with Trent in this hybrid position that I'm, you know, I'd be willing to give up a year's salary if it doesn't work. Well, that was what he said to me.
- [10:35]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
That's a big statement, man. That is a big statement.
- [10:37]
JPMorgan Chase
It's a big statement. And much to the Dutchman's relief, it's not cost him a penny because what is it, 24 Premier League games since they made the switch and just one defeat. And even that was in the most controversial of circumstances at Tottenham with that var shambles. So I think it's probably twofold really. I think one, Liverpool at the time, they needed something to change because they were just stuck in a rut and they, they just needed something to spark them back into life. But also, I think Trent himself was going through probably the bleakest period he's had because for a long time his rise in football was just seamless really to win everything that he did, you know, pretty much a clean sweep of all the major honors by the age of what, 23, you know, lauded as the best right back in, in world football. And then he suddenly found himself under such scrutiny last season and people picking apart, you know, the defensive elements of his game and, and I think he struggled and he's admitted that. And I did an interview with him towards the back end of last season where he talked about those tough times and you know, you think back to. I think Liverpool got a pasting, didn't they, at the Etihad, what was that? 4 1. And he got tormented really by Jack Greish that day. And you contrast that to when, when they went back there last, last week. The difference in Trent, you know, now compared to then is difference between light and day. And I think, you know, he's really enjoyed that change of role because it's given him something else to think about. I think it's also, you know, made him feel, you know, influential and important in terms of, you know, how much kind of that puts on him to get the team going. And, and he, and he does love that operating in that midfield role. And it asks a lot of him because of course, you know, he's kind of been half and half really, you know, as soon as Liverpool lose the ball he's expected to get back and be the right back. But yeah, he's, he's really embraced this kind of positional change. Yeah, it does feel now we're reaching that point where this is a progression to him becoming a central midfielder permanently.
- [12:37]
Chase Sapphire
I think it's worth speaking about the out of possession side of things as well that we're obviously all going to laud his passing ability from more central positions. But I think going back to Peplinda saying about that, I think another reason was to try and allow Trent to come inside to have an extra body within the, the midfield because the, the midfield was quite porous to, to allow a lot of counter attacks kind of coming through. So if they did lose it, they'd have an extra body to, to be able to stop the counter attack. Now again, I've obviously looked into the numbers on this and Liverpool are still quite vulnerable to the counterattack this season has become with. With some of the signings that they've made really transitional and they've really benefited from that from an attacking perspective. So the numbers here show that Liverpool have got the. Have had the most direct attacks, which is an opt to define metric. Let's just say it's a proxy for counter attacking. So I won't get too much into the specifics but they've had the Most direct attacks, 59 in the Premier League this season. But they've also conceded the second most direct attacks. 49. Only Sheffield United have conceded more in that regard as well. So it really speaks to the idea that Liverpool are playing a lot of transitional football in both directions and you know, Trent having so much control on the ball and playing those searching passes. Sometimes we've seen it with Manchester City, right, having so much control and not allowing that transition to happen. By playing those short and sharp passes. I guess what I'm saying is having Trent looking to play those creative passes from central positions does mean that the ball then can come back the other way quite quickly as well. You know, that's why you maybe get a 43 every now and again. That's why, you know, Liverpool might be conceding against most opposition and if they've conceded first in quite a few games early on this season, you know, you have to take the rough with the smooth. You have to see that there's, there's a positive negative to both of these. And from an out of possession perspective, I'd say that Liverpool haven't quite locked it down maybe quite in the way that it did. Role change was designed to do back in April when, when they made it, I think it was the first game it was against Arsenal. So yeah, it's not too negative, but I think it's a bit of pragmatism, a bit of realism towards Liverpool's sort of defensive side of things too. You're listening to the Athletic football podcast with IO Akinwaleere.
- [14:52]
Ayo Akinwale
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- [16:45]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Ollie, from a Trent perspective, what does it say about how the club feel about him where you've now got a system that's kind of playing to his strengths?
- [16:53]
The Athletic
It says a lot, doesn't it? I mean he's been outstanding over the past five, six years since he broke into the team. He's, he's gone from being a, a young right back who was, they were making allowances for in terms of, look, we'll try and cover up whatever the weaknesses, deficiencies there are in his game to being the guy where we'll think right, well let's, let's try and make a, a team framework that gets the most out of his strengths because he is our most important player. It's a hell of a tribute, isn't it when you look at, when you look at some of the other players in that team. I just sometimes look at it personally and I, I don't think this is the majority view on this. I sometimes feel that Salah is slightly marginalized when Alexandra Arnold is moving inside and this is often from the, as a starting position, from as a right back and moving into that hybrid role in midfield moving more centrally. We saw it even two years ago. This has been a gradual thing and it's probably pushed Salah wider because he's the guy who has to really provide the width in, in this, in this new setup and I think that's even more so if, if you know, the more Trent moves inside. So people will look at Salah stats and say look, they're still amazing in terms of goal contributions, assists, shots. But I feel that it sometimes can take something away from other players and I'm not totally sold on the, on the idea of him as a midfielder. I don't think Alexander Arnold being at right back was the problem with Liverpool last season. I think the problem was the midfield and then it sort of snowballed into other issues from there. So I, I'm, I'm a bit skeptical about the Whole thing. Personally I could see it working but I. I don't think the previous system wasn't working. I think. I think there was still a great balance to the seam with him at right back. And I think it just. I feel when you look at Liverpool's squad and I don't think they've really got. I mean they've got Joe Gomez who can. Who sometimes fills in at right back but I don't think they've got the range of alternatives at right back that would make it easy to put him into midfield full time. Whereas England they've got this abundance of riches at right back and a real vacancy in midfield. And so I feel like what's right for Liverpool might not be what's right for England and vice versa. So it's. I'm slightly torn on it.
- [19:16]
Chase Sapphire
Yeah.
- [19:16]
JPMorgan Chase
I think only makes a good point about Salah. It is true that he is stuck out wider for longer and it does mean that he's away from dangerous areas more than I think is ideal in terms of where Liverpool traditionally Trent would bomb on wide and then Salah would find pockets of space inside. But I, I just think what we're seeing is the evolution of the style under clock because he always talks about how you never want to stand still because teams find you out and they find ways to combat you and you've gotta. You've got to keep changing. And I think that's why Liverpool's midfield has changed beyond recognition really compared to what the midfield was in the kind of the first iconic team the Klopp built where it was all about shape and organization and being workmanlike and shutting down passing lanes and the front three scored the goals. The two fullbacks created the ammunition for them to fire and that was, that was the blueprint. And I think what we're seeing now is a much more pleasing on the eye more, you know, more progressive, more exciting midfield where Liverpool now attack teams a lot more centrally. They're a lot less reliant on those wide areas. So that's why I think where we're heading is Trent to become a center midfielder permanently. Because I just think that he is the epitome. If that's the way you want to go then you want your best passer, your best creative force in those central areas to dictate proceedings like he shown he can. Picking up on what Oli said about the lack of other options at right back I think we might find ourselves in a position where come next summer a right back is at the top of Liverpool shopping list because I think, you know, I think it'll be a bit of a horses for courses approach for the rest of this season. And Joe Gomez is a real solid option as a deputy at right back but you know he doesn't give you too much in terms of an attacking sense. They've got young Conor Bradley who you know in Northern Ireland international they've got real high hopes for. But he's only just come back to fitness. I think he out for three, four months with a stress fracture in his back. So it'll be interesting to see whether he can kick on. You know, we've seen someone like Gerald Kwanza come from nowhere to play what kind of a dozen games already this season at center half. So Klopp has shown he's willing to put his faith in young players if, if they grasp the chances that come along. So yeah it is, it is interesting but I do think Trent there fits with how Klopp now sees this team playing in terms of style.
- [21:47]
Chase Sapphire
I think it's worth noting as well that cyberslay will often be the one to maybe overlap on the right or pull onto the right hand side. Has almost become the the foil to Salah at times. But I think again looking at Salah's numbers, his creativity numbers are, are up quite significantly because he is a little bit more the one to, to provide. But again maybe spinning. A slight negative is that sometimes, I mean Liverpool came unstuck a little bit against Luton and I think a reason why was that Luton kind of sat in, they had a strong back, five left, no spaces and typically against a deep block you have to go around the block. You have to get the ball into wide areas, maybe cross it which is Liverpool of Liverpool 1.0. That is perfect for them. That's exactly what they kind of have their strength in and they didn't quite do it quite in the same way. And again looking at the numbers, there's their crosses, open play crosses per 90 this season 10.7 per 90. Whereas in the previous three seasons it didn't fall below 15 occasions per 90 in terms of their open play crosses. So this is really clear that they're playing more centrally as James says. But on occasions where teams will maybe sit off them against elite sides, you know you're more likely to, to get that sort of deeper block. Do Liverpool maybe always have the answer to it with this sort of new style. If you need to go around the block that's where you need Trent pulling wide and playing those dangerous passes. Whereas if you're trying to sort of funnel it into a bottleneck and getting into congested areas. Salah's getting doubled up on in wide areas. When you do try and go around it, that's maybe where you can maybe get some frustrating results. A couple of draws here and there which you know, when Liverpool are pushing for the title those draws can be quite, quite costly. So yeah, I'm the same as the guys. I'm still not totally convinced by it but I think it's a horses of courses depending on the opposition.
- [23:32]
JPMorgan Chase
It all started for me in 2005. Life was football. Whenever I had the ball at my feet, I made sure I had those boots on.
- [23:44]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Many people have seen the campaign. Trent, Alexander, Arnold rocking the new Adidas Predators and look, if you're a football fan, Zinedine Zidane, David Becker, Steven Gerrard, iconic players that have worn the Predator brand. And also currently Jude Bellingham, Pedri as well. James, in terms of a global star, what do you think Adidasi in Trent that they thought, you know what, we'll give this guy a lucrative boot deal because he embodies something we know will reverberate on a global scale.
- [24:19]
JPMorgan Chase
The biggest thing undoubtedly is talent and the fact that he's been doing it now at such a high level for so long for one of the biggest clubs in the world. And I think when you throw into the mix as well that you know, he's now a much more kind of prominent figure in, in that Liverpool team as well. Vice captain deputizing as the captain when Van Dijk isn't out there, you know, the fact that he's got pretty squeaky clean public image as well, you know, he's, he's the kind of person I think that any major brand would be rushing to try and associate themselves with. I think, you know, back in the summer he launched his, you know, the after academy that you know, which is all about, you know, helping out kids that have been released by academies and fallen by the wayside and given them employment opportunities and, and so he's, yeah, you know, he has that social conscience as well where you know, I, you know, I think he, he is incredible. You know, it's no, no great surprise that you know, there's so many people queuing up to try and work with him. You know, Red Bull is another one of his partners where you know, he's been pictured with the Red Bull Formula one racing team and he was over at some big fashion launch in Paris for Louis Vuitton and Jay Z and Beyonce were at the same, the same event. And that this is, this is the kind of, this is the kind of table that he's, that he's at now in terms of his profile. And I think also if you're, if you're Adidas, you're looking at it and he's still only 25. I mean, it's crazy to think of it. I mean, what. In fact, watching the game against Fulham, you know, I was thinking, well, I remember watching Trent and Harry Wilson playing in the same youth team when they were 16, 17, and, and when you think, you know, what Trent has achieved, an age where, you know, usually you'd say, well, a 25 year old, nowhere near, nowhere near their peak. You know, they're still learning their trade. And so, yeah, it's no great surprise that what he's producing on the pitch is reverberating off it in terms of, you know, these, these big money offers coming at his feet.
- [26:19]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Yeah, Ollie, Louis Vuitton, Jay Z, Beyonce. Sounds like a, a weekend for you, really. But real talk, real talk though, like, I mean, homegrown, you can see it, the similarity of Stevie Gerard now he's in that midfield. Gerard also wore the Adidas Predator boots as well. I mean, there's a real, this is, you know, that Scouse lad who's playing for his boyhood club. And actually there's something really delicious about that, especially when he's performing on such great form.
- [26:49]
The Athletic
Yeah, there's this another dimension to it which I think is interesting, which is when you go back to the 2000s and that sort of golden generation England team and you look at people like Steven Gerrard and Ashley Cole and John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, Wayne Rooney, David Beckham, Paul Scholes, etc, they were generally disliked by rival fans. And I don't know whether that's just something about the rivalries at the time. And they were so intense. And with a lot of them these days, I mean, Harry Kane, Jude Bellingham is in a different position again because he's playing in real, you know, playing Real Madrid and he's away from the sort of toxicity of the, the Premier League rivalries. But Trent, Alexander, Arnold to me is not somebody that rival fans particularly dislike. I think they, they see something they like in him and they see, and I think it's true of this generation of players generally. I think a lot of them, you know, conduct themselves really well. Marcus Rashford is another who's had great praise for the way he's handled himself off the pitch and he's now getting a lot of criticism because the way he's performing on the pitch, which, which is a different matter. But to me, Trent is one one of those that is, that is a guy who. Yes, he's. He's probably. Yeah, he plays for Liverpool and he's Liverpool's vice captain and he's increasingly the face of Liverpool. But I don't think he would turn off rival fans the way Steven Gerald did and the way John Terry and Frank Lampard sometimes turned people off if they didn't like Chelsea or Wayne Rudy turned people off if they didn't like Man United. It's. I don't know whether it's an image thing, whether it's really conscious, whether it's marketing, I don't know, maybe it's social media, something like that. But to me Trent is one of those. Yes, that doesn't really attract any real animosity. I couldn't tell you much about his private life. He's not plastered over the front pages. I don't know who he's going out with or whether he is at all. Maybe that tells you more about my interests. But he's just admired for his football and admired as an increasingly rare local lad made good. And everyone could see he's conducts himself the right way and never seems to be in trouble off the pitch. He's really impressive as are, by the way, the guys I mentioned, Steven gerrard, Frank Lampard, etc. Really great ambassadors for their clubs, their cities, but they just seem to attract this hostility from rival fans and this generation seemed to be strangely above that. It's impressive.
- [29:24]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Mark, I want to bring you in here because I just want to finish this section really talking about Liverpool in general and we sort of said it at the top, so whisper it quietly. Title challenges. You know, the only team really, I mean some might say Arsenal did to a certain degree, but have really gone toe to toe in Manchester City over the last few years. How realistic is that title challenge this season?
- [29:48]
Chase Sapphire
Very realistic. I think that, you know, if you can stay in and amongst it until, you know, spring of next year, then it's absolutely realistic. I think given the nature of my role, I think I kind of cut through all of the excitement, the narrative and bring everyone right back down to it.
- [30:02]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
What are you doing? Come on, give us some news of good news.
- [30:05]
Chase Sapphire
It's more kind of the thought that it is still just over one third of the season gone. And I think that, you know, I've listened to a few other kind of platforms, radio phone ins and things like that saying you know we're definitely going to win the league and that could be for Arsenal, man, City, Liverpool, whoever. Just over one third of the season gone. I think we all need to just kind of take a bit of stock. Things can swing so quickly and I think you know the pack will not shuffle too much. I think you'll still get the overall structure of the league in terms of the broader picture. But right at that top then you know a difference between a draw in the final few games of the season can really draw and a win I should say could really, really change things. But I think that Liverpool have got the, the ability to stay in and amongst it. I think one thing I would say is that I always like to look at the underlying numbers of course and I look at the expected goals difference which is a really good proxy of kind of at this stage of the season rather than looking at points, looking to see what the quality of chances that a team has created and conceded and obviously the difference between the two to give a broader indication of where within the league at the moment per 90 minutes Liverpool have the, the fourth best expected goal difference. And I think that it's more to do with that defensive vulnerability more so than their, their attacking firepower. We've, we've spoken about how strong they are going forward. That's, that's undeniable. But that transitional style can leave you open at times and as I say we've, we've seen that already. The numbers show it as well. So if they can lock things up a little bit, you know, from a defensive perspective and that's not to say it's the defenders themselves who are sort of poor here. I think it's the out of possession probably is a broader sense to say that they need to maybe shut down counter attacks or shut down the opposition higher up or at source. But I think if Liverpool are going to continue to, to mount a title challenge it'll be more of the, the out of possession things that need to, to tighten up. But yeah, they've got as good a chance as, as Arsenal potentially Manchester City. We know how they turn things on in the new year but yeah, I think that they'll be right up there by, by April.
- [32:05]
JPMorgan Chase
May.
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- [32:48]
Chase Sapphire
You're listening to the Athletic Football Podcast with IO Akimole.
- [32:54]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Let's look at Trent as part of this England setup and you spoke about it earlier. Ollie previously struggled to break into Gareth Southgate's team on, on a regular basis. Went to Russia, went to Qatar, but didn't play so much, but now has been listed as a midfielder in recent squads by Gareth Southgate. Considering how congested I guess that those defensive positions are, is that the best fit for him in this current squad?
- [33:20]
The Athletic
Yeah, I, I think in terms of England it is. I think England's squad is very different to Liverpool's in terms of where the strengths of that squad are. I mentioned the abundance of riches that they have at right back and Kyle Walker, who's been outstanding as well, seems to be getting better. Rhys James, Kieran Trippier, Tino Livramento is sort of emerging. Aaron Wan bissaka, etc. Etc. It's an incredible pool of right backs and it's clear that Southgate doesn't fancy Trent defensively as much as he fancies Walker and Trippier. And that's. It's. It's an opinion and it's been rewarded, I think, with good results and good performances. So I think from his point of view from England, you know, from an England point of view and looking at where England are perhaps deficient in the middle of the park, I think it makes a lot more sense for England. I think it looks like, you know, a fairly straightforward decision, whereas I think it's just that little bit more difficult with Liverpool. What I don't like particularly is when it becomes this idea that like, because something works for club, it has to work that way for country or the other way around because it works, you know, where Klopp is being urged to do it for England. You know, this is what England needs. You've got to play him at in central midfield. I mean, that's not Klopp's priority at all, nor should it be. I could see a situation where he continues playing this hybrid role for Liverpool at right back and goes into midfield at times, whether it's a, whether it's late in a game or whether it's certain games and plays for England in midfield. But I don't feel like we've seen the, any sort of categoric you know, definitive proof of it with England. I think it's been two games against Malta and two games against North Macedonia so far. And I, I think, you know, those are the kind of games where we've seen people like, you know, John Joe Shelby pull the strings for England in midfield and in, in the distant past. It's, it's not, you know, the acid test is probably not even going to be in the group stage of, of the, of the Euros. It's, it's going to be in the knockout stages, the games where you're really, really tested and where the success or, or you know, the positives and negatives of a particular system, particular personnel. It's often tested right at the end or, you know, latter stages of tournament where you come up against the best teams. And I can see that it might work for England. I'm just not convinced it's, that we've reached sort of no brainer territory for it. He's not Southgate's first choice at right back. I think yes, he's got a much better chance of getting in midfield. I could see how it might work, but I still have certain reservations about it personally.
- [36:06]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Quick one from you, Mark. I'm just, quickly as Ollie's talking about the Euros, I'm looking at England's group, group C, Serbia, Denmark, Slovenia. I mean if you're going to try stuff out, it's not a bad group to do that.
- [36:17]
Chase Sapphire
Yeah, it's a good point. I think as Ollie said, it's, it's maybe in the earlier stages you could maybe get things done quite quickly with your more front footed, creative passes. Knowing that this question was going to come up, I thought about this as well and made a couple of notes and I, I, in my mind I thought of the example of, you know, if you're playing Spain in a semi final and you need to control possession and just make sure that you've got people who are maybe going to keep it simple for a little bit, not even have the, the view to, to look forward, would Trent be that person? We know all of the, the positives that he brings. He's got the creative passing. But like I mentioned for club, if you're maybe playing those searching balls forward and you know, someone doesn't always get on the end of it and that ball is going to come quickly back at you and when you're playing again, you know, at the international level, at the highest level, where in a game of such magnitude do you kind of want that? I don't know. But as you Say quite rightly in a group stage where it's, you know, the remit is to, to go and accrue points and it's not a must not lose potentially game and you want to, to be on the front foot then, then yeah, and there's the time to try it and if you do make a mistake there's still time to, to come back from it. But yeah, in the semi finals, in the knockout stages again without sitting on the fence as a horses for courses, I suppose depending on what you want. Because you could maybe bring him on in the, the latter stages of those sorts of games and think, well there's no one else who maybe see this ball, let alone play this ball and then you can, you can maybe obviously gain the advantage from it there. But to maybe start with Trent in midfield in a high profile game which as Ollie said they're yet to do. It's, it's been against minnows of, you know, European football so far. So yeah, we're yet to find out whether we can do it at that stage. But as you say at the group stage. Yeah, why not try it?
- [38:03]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Yeah. James, let's bring this circle, let's circle this back to Liverpool. Really. I was watching much of the day to a, a football highlight show here in the UK yesterday and former Tottenham player Jermaine Genesis and a Newcastle player was saying that now's the time to move him into midfield. We've seen it several times. Now's the time. But where does he sit? Number six, number eight. What do you reckon?
- [38:27]
JPMorgan Chase
I think more of a six. I think in where we've seen him step into, in this hybrid role where he can get on the ball and dictate play and, and, and be the man that kind of kick starts, attacks rather than, you know, bombing into the penalty boxes as one of the, one of the eights. I think. Yeah, it does, it does feel like that is the way that things are heading at the moment. It's probably a bit too simplistic to just say, well that's it, just make the change now. Because as the guys said earlier it, I think it does depend on the opposition. There's times when it makes sense for Trent to be wider to, to use that skill set that he's got when it is very congested in, in the middle. But I just think you, you only have to look at him and I was watching him play against Fulham and it's. There was one passage of play where you know, he went out to the left hand side of the penalty box and received the ball off Kelleher. Just the unbelievable like belief and enjoyment you can see that he gets from, from, from being able to, to dictate things and you know, suddenly he's 70 yards upfield, drifting past players, playing a one two as the Bosley and, and, and creating an opportunity. And you just think it clear it clearly is where he sees his future. And I think because of the enjoyment that he gets from that, it's just common sense that that is where we're heading. It's just a case of how quickly it happens because of you know, what are the other options at right back and who, who can step up and deliver there and, and give Liverpool what they need in, in that department. But yeah, it, it certainly feels, feels that way now because yeah this is, this is like we're seeing the evolution of Trent Alexander Arnold is, it's interesting the fact that Klopp has changed his view because I remember being sat in a press conference probably just over two years ago when I think Trent had played center midfield against Andorra in what, whatever qualifier that was. And Klopp was quite, you know, he was quite kind of dismissive of it and said, you know, I don't understand why you would play the best right back in the world or in Europe or whatever word he used. Why would you play that, play him in center midfield. And I think now he's clearly changed his tune. One of the big tactical changes during the game against Fulham was to actually bring on Joe Gomez at right back and move Trent into center midfield permanently. He wasn't in that hybrid role for the last 25 minutes. It was. No, you are, you know, the base of the midfield. You are dictating things. You know, when we lose possession, you're not tearing back to right back. And I think that's about the third or fourth time Klopp's done that in recent months. I think Bournemouth away in the Carabao cup was I think the first time this season. So, so yeah, I think we are seeing that gradual switch. So I think yeah, come next season without a shadow of a doubt, I think he'll be a, a center midfielder.
- [41:12]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Fantastic. Oh, it's nice to Hear about Liverpool 2.0 as well as Trent 2.0 as well. Thanks for your time, James, Ollie and Mark as well. Now don't forget, please remember to rate and review the podcast if you're enjoying it. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be speaking to you for the.
- [41:28]
JPMorgan Chase
Rest of the week.
- [41:28]
Trent Alexander-Arnold
See you soon.
- [41:29]
Chase Sapphire
You've been listening to the Athletic Football Podcast. The producers were Adonis Pratsides and Guy Clark, with additional production by Mike Stavro and Jay Beal. The executive producer was Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic football podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic Football Podcast is an athletic media company Production.
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The Athletic
The Athletic.
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Chase Sapphire
We make fun of everything but most importantly ourselves.
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I'm Paige desorbo.
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Chase Sapphire
I'm Hannah Burner.
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Chase Sapphire
Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during an inappropriate time.
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Chase Sapphire
So we decided to start this podcast to continue giggling.
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We will make fun of pop culture news. We're watching Fashion Trends pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments and games and guests.
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Chase Sapphire
Listen to Gigli Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
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JPMorgan Chase
Acast.com.