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Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people, money and agents so you can transform tomorrow.
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The next Evolution in Football Storytelling Football Manager is back in our lives. For the first time, Football Manager 26 refreshes the managerial experience and sets the stage for you to define your football destiny. Now, chances are that as a listener to this podcast, you've spent hundreds or even thousands of hours on previous iterations of this game. Tommy Svendel Laughs and Czerno Samba and are much better in the game than in real life. Toribo west, we salute you. Well, FM26 is going to give you the richest matchday experience ever with enhanced player movement and greater on pitch detail, bringing new levels of depth and drama to every match. For the first time, you can compete at the pinnacle of English football as the Premier League debuts. With fully licensed club badges, kits and official player photos, and with a completely overhauled UI by the genius developers at Sports Interactive, every aspect from training to tactics to transfers belongs to you and your vision. Football Manager 26 is out now across platforms. Step into the dugout and change the game.
- [01:53]
D
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic.
- [01:57]
B
FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimwaleere. Wolves have sacked their manager Victor Pereira. With no win so far this season and just two points on the board, all signs are leading to relegation. So who can save them here for this one? We've got Matt Slater, we've also got Long Suffering Wolves supporter Tim Spe, and we've also got David Ornstein as well. All right, David, let's start with you because you've been following this story closely. Are Wolves close to finding a successor to Vito Pereira?
- [02:31]
E
Well, I think they wanted to give Vito Pereira as long as possible and therefore they didn't start a process to replace him before he was actually sacked. Once he was, the work began in earnest Saturday night after The Fulham defeat into Sunday, phone calls were starting to be made to express an interest in. In a number of candidates, including Gary o', Neill, to try and set up conversations. And they moved pretty swiftly. In terms of o' Neill discussions which we reported on. The Athletic were advancing in terms of Rob Edwards, who we revealed to being in the mix. People like Michael Carrick were admired and other names were coming out in different sections. We also pointed to Eric Ten Haag being somebody that Wolves had expressed an interest in talking, and he had been discussed internally. But I think it was quite clear they were honing in towards o', Neill and we don't know the exact ins and outs of it. A lot was sort of said in the public and, you know, only those inside and Gary o' Neill himself know why. But we broke the news on Monday evening that Gary o' Neill had withdrawn himself from the process and that he felt that this opportunity just wasn't right for him. I suspect that came as a bit of a shock or setback internally to the Wolves hierarchy, given where they appeared to be with him. However, the show must go on and they're gonna have to find somebody at some point. Perhaps the international break provides a more calm opportunity to install somebody and use that international break to try and bring someone in, settle them and let them work with the players that are there and those that then come back ahead. An absolutely critical run of fixtures. No doubt, you know, the Rob Edwards name remains in the sort of public environment, even though when he spoke in his news conference, he sort of played dumb a little bit, sort of suggesting that he had found out about this possibility via his daughter. I'm not sure the exact veracity of that, because Wolf's interest in him, irrespective of his intentions, is credible. They think really highly of him. They've got a strong connection and. And whether they do pursue that, there have been some reports from elsewhere sort of insinuating he might be the top target. Now, as of the time which we broke the o' Neill news, we weren't expecting an, you know, an imminent solution. So they're clearly going to take a bit of time. Despite wanting to resolve it sooner rather than later in what's an absolutely crucial decision for the club and its Premier League status.
- [05:14]
B
Tim, would Gary o' Neill have been a disaster if he came back to Wolves?
- [05:21]
F
I mean, it's hard to say anything other than. Than, yes, really. I mean, there's quite a lot of evidence to suggest that that might have been the case. You know, the fact that he left them in 19th a year ago and Wolves were a bit of a shambles at the time and conceding a set piece goal every 10 minutes. I'm amazed it's come to this. I thought, you know, Wolves was sort of seen as a, as a well run model club a few years ago. To go from that sort of four or five years later to appointing a guy who was sacked for not being good enough a year ago. And the chairman publicly said on a podcast in July that they sacked o' Neill too late because he was doing such a bad job. So for him to say that in July and then a few months later to be trying to reappoint him makes no sense to me whatsoever. But it shows how desperate they are and it shows how, how badly run they are at the moment, to be honest.
- [06:14]
B
Yeah, I mean that might be the theme of the podcast right there. Let's just scoot back to Pereira who left Wolves rock bottom in the league with zero wins, Tim, two draws and eight losses this season. How bad has the football been this season from a Wolves fans perspective?
- [06:30]
F
Oh yeah. Do you know we did this a year ago I think when I sat. I remember, I remember calling it therapy at the time. And I think it's going to be something similar today. I mean, you know the, the, the tables a bit, the Premier League tables are weird at the moment, but it doesn't lie in Wolves's case. You know, it's most goals conceded, it's fewest goals scored, joint fewest goals scored. Snow wins in 10 for the second season in a row. Wolves fans should just take their summer holidays until November basically because there's no point turning up the first 10 matches. However, last year people might remember they had an incredibly tough match start to the season. I think something stupid like their first 10 games were against like the top eight from the previous season. This year is really not as bad in terms of difficulty. In theory they've lost to Leeds, Burnley and Fulham who are the teams that they're in theory trying to catch at the moment in 15th, 16th and 17th. But the football's been pretty bad. The XGU numbers offer us sort of a slither of Hope. They're like 18th in goals scored and 13th in goals against. So that's better than Liverpool and Man United. So slightly better than things would suggest. But that's really clutching at straws. But the worst thing I always like this is just no surprise whatsoever. The squad they've got is not good enough. There's no creativity and the defense is really Weak. A lot of that is on, is on Pereira and you know, a lot of individual players have been really struggling. I think he knew his best 11 or formation. But you know, the position that he was put in by the recruitment team and the ownership meant that being in a relegation battle was inevitable. Being rock bottom 20th, many, many points from safety is a, is a slight surprise to me. But not, but just not, not too much of a surprise at all. Yeah, the whole A mess. Anti ownership sentiments everywhere you look. Bottom of the table. And to top it off, Sam Allardy said he wanted the job this morning. So I need to lie down IO to be honest.
- [08:18]
B
I'm sorry, Matt. I mean I'm just looking as a business. You're offering someone a three year contract whilst performances aren't that great. Rules were rock bottom when they offered Potta a three year contract. Obviously this got rid of him 45 days after. Have you ever seen a situation like this before in lower league football? In, in Premier League football?
- [08:45]
A
Look, I mean short managerial spells are not new, right? That goes all the way back to Brian Clough and Leeds and you know, Dave Bassett was it palace and Frank the Ball, he was definitely Palace. I mean that's, you know, that's, that's, that's not new. And also the idea of sort of going back to X's, I mean that happens all the time. They're giving him a contract. Okay, look, it looks dreadful now but Tim, I didn't imagine this. He. He had a really good run, didn't he? In spring and they win.
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F
Yeah.
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A
Six in a row.
- [09:17]
F
I'm sure I read last night that the first time a Top Flight T has ever won six in a row and then gone 14 without a win. It's never happened.
- [09:24]
A
Well, there you go.
- [09:26]
B
Yeah.
- [09:27]
A
Okay, so that's like there in their memory that they were at least for a. A period, he was getting a tune out of them. I definitely remember points then pints and him drinking Wetherspoons and it all seeming quite positive. That was this year, wasn't it? This calendar year. Yeah.
- [09:48]
F
But I did, I did text my friend in April who reminded me yesterday saying, oh, he won't, he won't be popping in Wetherspoons after they've lost three nil to Burnley next season. It was, it was three two. So I did get slightly wrong, but still.
- [10:00]
A
Okay, all right, well look, so some, I was just making some, you know, points for the defense. I, I don't think of all the things that have gone wrong giving Pereira a big contract 45 days ago. Yeah, it looks dreadful with hindsight. You know, three years, possibly unwise. I don't know all the detail of the contract. I wonder if it really was three years. That is probably a bit daft. You should always maybe incentivize these things and give yourself a get out clause. Who really is doing three years these days? Tim, I'm going to have to go to you. Is it five or six managers now in four years at Wolves?
- [10:32]
F
They're looking for their fifth since 2021.
- [10:35]
A
Well, okay. Right, so look, you know, the evidence isn't great, but I think there are bigger issues at Wolves than backing Pereira at the wrong time in terms of, you know, length of contract. Did they back him in the, in the transfer market? Did they back him very well in the transfer market? What is their plan at Molyneux? Are they for sale, yes or no? I just think this particular call is a bad one. But it's one of ten bad ones.
- [11:02]
B
Well, let's talk about that. Backing him in transfers. Tim. £100 million spent on players without Premier League experience. And much has been made of this through football commentary. And I've been listening to a lot of it going. But these guys have never been tested. They don't even know who they're buying. Fans are saying the same thing. It's not a lot to work with financially, but were they the right buys?
- [11:25]
F
No. And it's not just saying after the fact. I think, I think, you know, we, we all thought they'd had a poor summer. You basically, last season's squad wasn't, wasn't good enough for a sort of a top 10 push, which is in theory what they should be aiming for. So you take that base level and you take away Cunha, who went to Man United, you take away Ait Nori to Man City, you take away club captain Nelson Semedo, who went to Turkey on Bosman, even Pablo Sarabia, who was, you know, a creative presence mostly off the bench. Now this is nothing new at Wolves. They've been losing good players for many years. You know, people have seen the likes of Neto, Neves, Moutinho Jimenez, Matias Nunes, Adama, Traore, even Nathan Collins who went to Brentford, which looks like a ridiculous sale in hindsight. All these players have gone in sort of the past two, three years. But the problem this summer and in a few recent windows is that the recruitment has just been utterly woeful. They knew in June that all the aforementioned players were leaving. Kunya and Nori went before the Club World cup and Semeda was a free and Sarabi was a free, so they knew that and yeah, we were all waiting so, so long for them to bring players in. They were basically missing out on targets and going down to like fourth, fifth choices. So they ended up getting players just to fill gaps in the squad. The perfect example of how the recruitment has gone this summer would be Matthias Kunya leaving, you know, by far and away their best player. And his replacement is John Arias who, yes, is an exciting Colombian Winger but he's 27 years old, he's not a young player. There's, you know, he's been passed up by a lot of clubs across Europe over the years. He had a good Club World cup with Flamenense and is a sort of a creative, dynamic wide player. But his career in Brazil hasn't produced anything like the sort of end product he would need to match Kunya, let alone in the Premier League. And lo and behold, he struggled to adapt. His first time in Europe and it's 10 games, no goals, no assists and he's Kunyu's replacement. The wing backs that came in to replace Ait Nori and Semedo have both been dropped already. You know, the left back they got, Molla Wulf, the Norway's left back looks completely out of his depth and like you say, not a single edition has Premier League experience. I find it maddening to be honest. Their other creative addition was fur Lopez, a 19 year old attacking midfielder from Celta Vigo who looks nice enough but he started six league games in his whole career, you know, so to ask him to come in and make an impact week after week in the Premier League is far too much. You compare that and you know, you mentioned about not a lot of money to play with. I'm not sure about that. If you look at Sunderland and what they've done with the money that they've spent, which isn't dissimilar to Wolves in terms of the amount they've gone for. Young but experienced players ready made for the Premier League. They certainly look like ready made for the style of football that Sunderland play. Similar prices to what Wolves are paying. But they got a lot of their business done early and Wolves have no plan for this. They haven't got a sort of a Brighton or Brentford or Sporting or, or Sunderland type philosophy in terms of recruitment. They've changed sporting directors almost as much as head coaches in the last few years, which is a huge problem. So when you have all that chopping and changing IO but You don't have a consistent plan or a mantra throughout the club in terms of recruitment or playing style. You're basically going from window to window hoping to sort of cobble a team together. And that's, you know, we talk about Pereira, but that's all on Foson and Jeff Shea, I'm afraid.
- [14:39]
B
Well, David, we'll talk about the ownership in just a bit, but let's stick with transfers. I'm so interested in this sort of Mendez connection. Who's in charge of recruitment now at Wolves?
- [14:49]
E
Yeah, well, it's always a bit of unclear picture at Wolves because there are different people doing different things. You've got Foson as ownership. You've got Mendes and Guester Foot who have had a strong influence on matters there. You've had a sporting director previously in the form of Matt Hobbs, who was regarded as doing a pretty good job in working with Mendez, Guester Foot, but also independently on behalf of Wolves and getting some pretty impressive work done. After Pereira was appointed, Domenico Teti arrived as director of professional Football, I think was his title. And he was closely linked to Pereira because they'd worked together before, I think in, in Saudi Arabia, which is always quite contentious, you know, a manager being involved or a head coach being involved in the appointment of a. Of a sporting director, technical director, or in his case, director of professional. The feeling is always that it should be a club appointment. I think Wolves have tried to suggest in recent days in the media that he was a club appointment, is a club appointment and will be staying. I've heard different noises from around the industry that at the very least there's uncertainty about his future. Now we're going to have to receive some clarity on what's happening around Tetty and then exactly what role Mendez gets to foot play going forward. We'll have to wait and see. You would assume it is strong given what we've seen in the past. So a lot to sort out.
- [16:16]
B
All right, David, appreciate that. Very comprehensive breakdown. Appreciate your time as always.
- [16:21]
E
Pleasure.
- [16:23]
C
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akimolara.
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G
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- [17:49]
C
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- [20:19]
B
Matt, let's, let's talk about the ownership, your specialist subject.
- [20:24]
A
I know nothing about Wolves players, I'm afraid. I've seen my match of the day and I didn't recognize any of them, you know.
- [20:32]
B
Can you give us a brief history then, on Foson's tenure at Wolves?
- [20:35]
A
Yeah, I can definitely do that. So they, so they bought the club from Steve Morgan Scouser, about 45 million in 2016. And that that year is, is important. It was around 1516. That was the peak of the Chinese football boom. So President Xi had decided they really, really wanted to grow China's global sports industry and they were going to invest massively at home in their own league, super league, but they were also going to learn from abroad. They were going to, you know, put themselves out there on the world. They were going to hopefully maybe stage a World cup at some point. They were going to do well in their home World cup just as they had done well in their home Olympics in 2008. There was going to be a big push behind football. It didn't last very long and it was spectacularly unsuccessful. So the Chinese Super League was a massive kind of boom and bust. They threw money at lots of Brazilian players and, and sort of high earning managers. None of it really stuck. Their national Team's pretty hopeless. Their women's team was decent sort of 200 years ago. Their men's team have never been good and still not very good. They just haven't cracked football. And President Xi kind of moves on, the Chinese Communist Party moves on. But lots and lots of Chinese business people, companies, but also kind of individuals to curry favor to get some Chinese money outside the country, which again is something that I might talk a bit, a bit more about later. Kind of took the directive from the top and all went off and bought clubs all over Europe and a lot in England. And nearly all of those were disasters because they weren't rich enough. Most of them had no clue what they were doing. They were all absentee landlords. They all got kind of fleece themselves by advisors and agents and you know, so many stories, you know, Reading and Wigan and they're just, they're just hundreds of the Birmingham City, Aston Villa and they nearly all end in tears. Wolves are the exception in so many ways. One, they're still standing. They're the last two, Fosun are a proper company. They're quite an unusual company. They're a massive conglomerate. Health care, retail property. They own like strange bits of companies like Club Med Lanvon, which is this massive sort of French luxury brand. They Silver Cross. I had a Silver Cross pram at one point. You know, there's lots of sort of strange things they do. And Wolves and also for a time Grasshopper, this, this, this team in Switzerland, they were kind of like buying into all the theories, multi club, okay. First few years they bought them in the championship, sort of mid table, kind of typical sort of sleeping giant type story. You know, we want to get back to the Premier League. First couple years, not really a great deal happening and then bang. I think it was 2018. Tim, just nod if I've got that year right. They win the championship playing really good stuff. He's nodded good. Now their usp and this is where I think we have to acknowledge that they got one thing right. Very importantly at the beginning, they picked the right advisor. Okay? So like a lot of those disastrous Chinese owners who picked cowboys and charlatans and crooks, they picked George Mendes. And George Mendes gave them amazing access to his stable of Portuguese, largely Portuguese talent, from managers, his very first client, Luno Espiritu Santo, all the way through to Ruben Neves and Joao Moutinho and loads and loads and loads of players that I'm going to possibly rude here. A club of Wolf stature at that moment possibly were overreaching oh, wow. Sorry. Ruben Neves is playing for who now? Okay, let's see how this plays out. It went really well. First in the championship, became seventh in the Premier League, became seventh in the Premier League. So an amazing three year run with really good players. That second, seventh season, they also went to the qualifiers of the Europa League. Yeah, right. So three really good years. We agree that that was the purple patch, right? The George Mendez Portuguese away strip. You know, the, you know, it just, it was loads of players.
- [24:50]
B
Did it feel like that, Tim, to you? They took over, obviously. The new new years as, as Matt's just spoken about. Really interesting. Was there that sense of yes, now we're talking.
- [25:01]
F
Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. You're joking. Yeah, honestly. But it's, but you know, it, it's sad now to think of that. There's already a huge wave of nostalgia for that period already. You know, people posting pictures of the 11s lining up in the Europa League around that time. You got to remember where Wolves came from. I'm not going to give you a long history lesson, but it had been, it had been 40 years since they were in Europe. It'd been a long time. They spent the vast majority of those 40 years in the championship with sort of Sir Jack Hayward promising to take him back to the, to the glory days and just never getting it right and all, you know, the epitome of a sleeping giant, you know, I'd given up hope of it ever happening, to be honest. Even the idea of finishing seventh and, and quarter finally. Europa League. No. No way. So for, so for it to happen in, in three years, you know, mid table championship to seventh to seventh again, it was amazing. And people, you know, people might forget that, you know, some of the nights we had at Molyneux, you know, beating Man City 32 after being two nil down. Pep City, the 21 win over Man United in the FA cup quarterfinal. Such special days. And Molyneux was. Everybody used to say it was such an incredible place to visit at the time. And I do think there was a case. It's hard for me to judge being a Wolves fan, but I do think there was a case of sort of everybody's like second favorite team maybe. People love the, the sort of the football they could produce. And Nuno's a great character and exciting players, you know, Jota and Jimenez and Neves and yeah, it was brilliant. And literally, you can put a pin in the point where it started to go wrong was when Covid started. Wolves were. Wolves had just beaten Spurs 3, 2 away from home in February, March 2020, and they were like a point of the Champions League. I think the rest of that Covid season was where things sort of started to go wrong. And then Ra Jimenez suffered his horrific injury and then they had a really bad summer of recruitment. Then Nuno left. And since then it's been a, you know, a very direct sort of downward line down the table. And it's sad now they've stopped selling out Molyneux now for the first time since 2017, I think there are empty seats at Molyneux. It's, it's, it's apathetic everywhere you look. You know, the city used to really come alive on most days, but now people just not looking forward to going to matches anymore and it's, it's really sad to see. And it's happened quite quickly, really. You know, it happened quickly to get the touches, the sort of ceiling that Wolves had. And now it's happened pretty quickly that they're heading back to the championship where it all began under Folson. It is heading full circle, to be honest.
- [27:32]
B
What happened in Covid? Because obviously Wolves might be the only team to have suffered through Covid and they're still paying off. What happened in Covid, structurally, Matt? Yeah, if we, if we dig beneath what. What changed?
- [27:45]
A
Well, I think a few things, so in no particular order, yeah, Covid hit everybody in football really hard. It was a real sort of stress test and, you know, really well run, well resourced clubs tended to do better than poorly run, poorly resourced clubs. Now, Wolves should not necessarily have been in that kind of bottom bracket, but they were. And we found out, I think, during that stress test. So China hit particularly hard. China was basically shut down for more than a year. And we saw also the, the, you know, that football boom had kind of had blown up. This retreat of Chinese money from the global football industry, from the global sports industry. Also kind of a retreat of Chinese foreign investment in. In general, the Chinese government made it very hard for Chinese money to leave China. So there was a purse string moment at Wolves. Now, Wolves had, whilst they had had success on the pitch, nearly all of their revenue, 2/3, 70, 75, was TV money, which was very, very. Which means they're very reliant on where they finish in the table. They're very reliant on prize money. Great. When you're going well, those seven places definitely helped. The minute it starts to become 10th, 13th, 14th, the equation just changes. I also think a little bit like, you know, when Wenger first arrived and his USP was access to the French market. There was always going to come a moment where Wolves great trick of just being the landing spot for amazing Portuguese talent or Portuguese speaking talents of Brazilians as well, was just going to run out. You can't just do that forever and ever. You don't have a monopoly on Portugal, you don't have a monopoly on Brazil. The rest of the world had noticed, so that was, that was going to be a diminishing advantage. I think there was a bit of a wobble in the Mendez relationship again. I think Tim would probably know a bit more about that. I think maybe there was a sense in Wolves in Wolverhampton, sorry, we need to be a bit more sustainable. We need to maybe produce some of our own talent. I'm thinking about people like Gibbs White. You know, we can't just rely on whoever Mendes has got wants to showcase next. Now he starts with a few failures and it's sort of like, well, he's not Ruben Neves. I thought they're all as good as Reuben Nevis. Where's. He's not Diego Jota.
- [30:04]
B
So, you know, some player, Fabio Silva.
- [30:06]
A
That came, you know, the trust starts to fray. The Portuguese kind of, you know, production line starts to falter. I, I definitely vividly remember again a Mendez clients when Lopategu was manager and they were having a poor season and he, and he, he pulled them out. It was probably their first real flirtation with relegation and there was a big spend. Tim, remind me, was it a January spend? It was, it was like sort of 22ish.
- [30:33]
F
Yeah, I think that's when Kunya came in and Mario Lomino. It was the 22, 23 season.
- [30:38]
A
I just, I just. That feels like the last time to me that Folsom really put their hand in their pocket, their pocket to keep Wolves in the division and then that immediately put Wolves in PSR problems. So the next few windows we have seen a flow of talent the other way. You know, the sale of players and instead of shopping at 30, 40 million. So Cunha I think is still the record signing at about 40 odd. They're shopping at like 20 odd. You know, Strand Larsen type guys, good player, but that's sort of about as good as it's going to be. So already we've seen the wage bill has also been pretty flat for the last few years. The transfer spend has come down the league, finishing position has come down as well. Their revenue is sort of stuck at around 170 ish. They're still incredible. A million per year. Then they made a big loss two seasons ago. 67 million. Off top of my head, they. They massively hacked a load off that last year. 23, 24 to a more manageable loss. But these are still losses and they're compounding losses. So they have put their hand in their pocket in 22 to pull away from relegation. They almost don't want to do that again. I'm looking at Folsom just being distracted. As I say, they're a conglomerate. They've got a lot of stuff going on. What's happened to the stadium rebuild plan, which I think was the first thing they were talking about when they bought the place. Nearly every other club in the division and not. And half the championship have got stadium plans. Wolves just appear to permanently shelve theirs. And I'm sorry, that's a really big red flag for me because I walk. I talk to people in the industry all the time and I keep hearing TV money is going to be flat at best. TV money. We can't keep relying on this. We cannot keep relying on this. We've got to grow a commercial. Wolves hasn't really sort of changed their commercial picture for years. We've got to grow our match day. Got to grow it. That is why every club is sort of trying to build a new stand, a new stadium, new facility, trying to use their stadium more often. Sports just look stuck at Molyneux. It just looks like a 90s ground. They're not using it very well. You know, a few years ago, they had some ideas. Esports. They sold a minority stake to quite an interesting group, Peak 6, this sort of tech fund from Chicago. They talked about a record label. They bought a sort of fashion brand or a sportswear brand, I think, from Manchester. Was it called Sodo? I saw ideas. None of those ideas have come off and now they're not even having ideas. They don't know what to do with it. They've sold Grasshopper. I think they want to go. I think they've. And I just think they're now, like, panicking. Oh, my God. We should probably sold this thing a while ago. If we. If we. If we can sell it as a Premier League club, thank God. Phew.
- [33:28]
F
If.
- [33:28]
A
If it goes into the championship, it halves in value. And then what do we do? Do we take the loss or do we do it all over again?
- [33:36]
F
That's absolute spawn who's got the timeline completely correct. And that is when you know. But you also have to remember they came in saying they wanted to be, you know, as big as Man City. In those early years, the ambitions were so high. And it was that period around sort of 2021, when everything was sort of rode back on. And the stadium, the stadium, that was the first big red flag to me because the plans for the stadium were, were jaw dropping. That was around sort of 2019, and then that's now completely stopped. But the place is crumbling. There is literally the paint is cracking and peeling and people post pictures on social media of what, of what a mess it is. And yeah, the first big red flag came for me when the Steve Bull Stand, which dates back to 1979, almost forced the club into liquidation. They spent so much on it back in the day. Its foundations date back to the Victorian period. It's old and it's needed knocking down for years. And it was called unfit for purpose by the old managing director, Laurie Dalrymple, in 2018. I think Folsom estimated it would take around 20 million to knock this dreadful stand down, which is where the away fans are housed. Opposite, opposite where the cameras. Where the cameras. Look at Molyneux. I think they decided it would cost around 20 million, but it would take around 20 years to see a return of that investment. So they pulled it and basically saying, look, we're not going to be around that long and it's going to take too long to see a return on our investments. That's the sort of epitome of where things have changed, really, with potion. They had, they had these grand plans on and off the pitch, they had these ambitions, they had these different ideas, as Matt was saying, record labels and fashion and fashion ranges, and it's all stopped and it's. And now the whole club is drifting as a result. And you, you can see it everywhere you look, to be honest.
- [35:25]
D
Hey, it's Adam Grant from ted's podcast Work Life, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85% of the Fortune 500 companies use the ServiceNow AI platform, while other platforms duct tape tools together. ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data workflows, and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters Most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people@servicenow.com this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.
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F
Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?
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A
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me. So, Dana.
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F
Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at t mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
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A
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
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G
Nice.
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F
Jeffrey, you heard them.
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A
T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible trade in in any condition. So what are we having for launch?
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Dude, my work here is done.
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Data 1H225 visit t mobile.com you're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayakamolere.
- [37:33]
B
Matt. Then come on, put me out my misery. We have to talk about Texter.
- [37:37]
A
Yeah, yeah, we have to talk about.
- [37:38]
B
Potentially the selling of this club. Do they want to sell? Can they sell? Is anyone circling?
- [37:42]
A
Well, I. This is. I feel like I'm definitely going to upset people here, so I'm gonna just tread carefully. Okay, so the official line and I will definitely give them credit for this. They have been consistent with this. Every time I ask them, curtly, every time every other journalist asks them. We are, we've been honest. We are interested in selling a minority stake. We'd like some investment. And we did it a few years ago, as I said, with this company called Peak6, who then three years later sold the stake back to Fosun. Okay, so it didn't work. Since then, yes, we have been looking for a similar type relationship. So that's the formal line. And when I did my story about John Texter's bid, which was for the whole club, he thought he was buying the whole club or wanted to buy the whole club. Well, you know, I don't know where John got that from. You know we're only interested in selling a steak. Fine.
- [38:36]
F
What I can tell you is that.
- [38:39]
A
I literally, this is what I do here, speak to people about the buying and selling clubs every other day. The market does not believe Wolves. We'll put it this way. The market does not believe Jeff Shee. The market believes that Folson have been trying to sell Wolves for some time and would love someone to come along and take the club off their hands for somewhere around 350 to 400 million quid. Now that is a pretty straightforward double their annual revenue. So a revenue multiple of two times what they're earning. It's about 350 million. That is what a mid, at a sort of established mid to lower half Premier League team is going for right now. Lots of benchmarks like a Crystal Palace. Yeah, lots of clubs have gone for around that. So about 2.1, 2.2 multiple of your of your revenue. Somewhere in that 350 to 400 range. Which is basically what Text are offered. Though of course Texter, I feel like he is definitely another pod was offering them some cash. Yeah, some shares Jam tomorrow in this floated Eagle thing that he's been trying to do for years and years and years. Text is not your guy. Wolves fans, I'm going to say. But the important thing here is that Texta is very much speaking for the market. What Texter did is what almost everybody else I talk to thinks is really going on here. You go straight to Foson and you make them an offer because Foson want to sell. They sold Grasshopper a few years ago. They've given up on the stadium Drift was Tim's great word. They have run out of ideas, run out of steam. They've got a choice now, I think. How do you, how do you value Wolves? Because yeah, Wolves established Premier League club. Yeah, maybe 350 million wolves, a championship club. And bear in mind I said that they're getting two thirds of their income from TV money. Wolves in the championship. Well, the record some pay for a championship club, you know, you're talking about kind of Sheffield United. Some of the valuation of leads, you know, it's, it's, it's 100 and 220, something like that.
- [40:41]
B
Yeah, we're fantastic that Tim at this stage. Goodbye folks. And whoever wants to put the money down, come in because I mean even that doesn't guarantee that Wolves is still going to be a well run club or even, dare I say, escape relegation.
- [40:55]
F
I don't think obviously the sort of the foes and out sentiments are pretty. Are pretty loud now. But look, if there was to be a sort. And there has been reversals in the way that they run the club before is there was to be another reversal and, and you know, maybe some new blood brought in, maybe a different chairman. You know, folks are not necessarily the problem. Like, you know, like Matt outlined earlier. They're not, they're not chancers. They're not, they're not like builders or like you do you know what I mean? They're not multi.
- [41:20]
A
Multi. Billion.
- [41:21]
F
Apollo. Multi billion pound conglomerate. Exactly. So, you know, the, the foundation's there for them to be fantastic owners. And they were, they were fantastic owners.
- [41:29]
A
Although, although just on that, they are, they are a massive company. Their own share price has halved in the last five years. It's the high point in 2020, you know, the kind of quarter final of the Europa League season. Folsom share price was about 20 Hong Kong dollars. It's $5 now. So they've lost 75% in five years.
- [41:52]
F
I mean, just on the owners. It's Jeff, she that people, people would like to see removed. You know, we talk about this churn of managing of managers and sporting directors and players. He's the one constantly, you know, it's. It's his, it's his club. His decisions have, have sort of led to this and some of the very peculiar things he said in public have just made fans very angry. Kind of said last year that, look, if you want European football and trophies, then wolves aren't the club for you, which I just found absolutely crazy for a chairman to say that on, on record. He's kind of said recently he thought Nuno's period in charge was like a bit lucky. He just, he treats you sort of your lifeblood of the club, you know, your season ticket holders with with disdain. I think that's fair enough to say. And then obviously his comments about wanting o' Neill gone sooner in the summer and now looking to reappoint him again. So for a guy who said, who admitted when he came into the club in 2016 that he knew nothing about football, for him now to be taking such an influential position in recruitment. So I'm told he took a bigger hand in recruitment in the summer and also potentially leading this manager search, that just, it's again, another huge red flag. And yeah, he's the one that fans want. Want gone more so than just the owners.
- [43:04]
B
Matt, we've, we've talked about several clubs over the last year or two in terms of clubs being in crisis can we add Wolves to that pile now?
- [43:16]
A
Not quite for me, because when we talk about. When I come on here and talk about crisis clubs, I'm normally talking about clubs in real financial difficulty. There's not, there's no real debt at Wolves. You know, they have a squad of players, you know, if they, if they get relegated, I don't see them being, you know, thrown to the Wolves. Sorry, that, that was, that really was an accident.
- [43:39]
C
Wide open.
- [43:39]
F
That was awful.
- [43:40]
A
Please take that one out.
- [43:41]
B
I'm howling with laughter. Sorry.
- [43:43]
E
Sorry.
- [43:44]
A
I started. It's my fault. I definitely started. Started that. So. No, there. As. As a Premier League club, their future is very much, you know, that's a crisis. It's 10 games in. They can do it, but they don't look like doing it. The trend is not their friend. I think Folsom needs to sell. I think they. I think it needs to be a bit of a restart maybe. You know, when I look at clubs like Wolves and I'm not being rude, they're in that kind of anti chamber, that kind of, that kind of lobby, you know, Premier League championship, ish. They're not permanent members of the Premier League for me. But then, but then I'm would throw loads of other clubs that think they're permanent members of the Premier League into that group as well.
- [44:29]
B
Do you know. But the thing is about that is that. And I, I understand that sentiment but I mean, it's, it's a coincidence that seems like Forest are also in that pile right now, in the bottom.
- [44:38]
A
Yeah, but they're not permanently.
- [44:40]
B
But inevitably what we do see, our clubs like Wolves and Forest, flirts with relegation and then seem to pull something out of a hat and make it through. Tim, is this that season again?
- [44:54]
F
Are you asking me to make a case for Wolf staying up this season? Have you seen the table?
- [44:58]
B
I'm trying my best to finish at the positive.
- [45:01]
F
I mean, look, you know, they've been. This has happened for three years in a row now. They've been circling the drain. It will happen eventually. They need an inspiring figure to come in and lead them to safety. Of the list of managerial candidates I've seen, I don't see that figure necessarily. There is maybe just about a team there that, that can stay in the Premier League. You know, they've got what has been Brazil's central midfield pair in Jagomez and Andre. I mean, come on, is that. Is the Premier League that good these days?
- [45:29]
A
Like, that's wild.
- [45:31]
F
You know, Jurgenstrand Larsen scored 14 goals last year.
- [45:34]
B
Yeah, a lot of people are after him as well. You know this in the summer, you.
- [45:38]
F
Know, 60 million pound. No thanks really anyway but he, but he relies purely on service.
- [45:43]
C
That's.
- [45:43]
F
That's his problem this year. But you know the Agbadoon defense was exceptional last season. Matt Doherty's solid. They've got a couple of decent keepers on their day and create. She's been a their one good addition in midfield or defense, but I struggle to see how they sort of attack and score their way out of trouble. There's a real lack of creativity there. What they need is a Sean Dice figure to come in and completely shut down. Right? I don't want to hear that name. Stop saying and like he managed managed West Brom and he's not not hard off.
- [46:17]
A
Sean ditches not enough sundarches.
- [46:19]
F
Who would have thought?
- [46:20]
A
That's. That's the lesson, isn't it?
- [46:21]
F
Someone get me McCarthy on the blower, please.
- [46:24]
B
Well, let's leave it there gents. I really appreciate your time. Matt, Tim and also David who joined us earlier. And also thank you guys for listening. We'll be back to tomorrow.
- [46:34]
C
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beal. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an Athletic media company production.
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G
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Got it from Verizon, the best 5G network in America. I never looked so good.
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D
Hey, it's Adam Grant from Ted's podcast Work Life, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85% of the Fortune 500 companies use the ServiceNow AI platform, while other platforms duct tape tools together. ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data workflows and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters Most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people@servicenow.com.