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- [00:00]
TurboTax Advertiser
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- [01:01]
Adam Leventhal
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- [01:35]
Art De Roche
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- [02:04]
TurboTax Advertiser
The Athletic FC
- [02:07]
Adam Leventhal
welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Adam Leventhal. So spurs rolled over for their rivals in the North London Derby, but how much should we read into the win for Arsenal as they go for their first title in 22 years? Well, Jay Harris, Art De Roche and Adam Crafton out in New York are with me to analyze the fallout from the North London Derby for Arsenal, for spurs, and also for what it means for the teams around them at the top and the bottom of the Premier League. So we know that Arsenal were comfortable winners. They've reopened that five point advantage over Manchester City at the top. But there were three big subplots for Arsenal. Another brain fart arrived. Eza and Giokorez. And we're gonna start maybe predictably with the mishap art like at Wolves in that two, two and four out of the last eight goals have been conceded from individual errors. But the key thing in this one was that they responded and they did it in a. In a way that sort of said, we've been talking about this and we know how to deal with it. That was, I suppose, that the upside in this game.
- [03:21]
Art De Roche
Yeah, I think going into that second half, they would have had conscious desire to put that right, because as you mentioned, it's been a theme not just for, I guess, these last two games, Wolves away and Tottenham away, but if you think back to New Year's Day or just a couple of days after, sorry, Bournemouth away, the first goal of the game is Gabriel gifting them the ball from a loose back pass. I think in 2026, they're joint first with Aston Villa for individual errors leading to goals. So it's been something that they need to sort out even when they win games, I still believe. But as you say, the fact that they were able to kind of come back and show what they're about is a really big bonus. Mikhail Arteta spoke about it after the game.
- [04:07]
Adam Leventhal
You look at your players and the
- [04:09]
Jay Harris
way they react and how much you
- [04:10]
Adam Leventhal
want it and I knew we were going to react.
- [04:13]
Jay Harris
In football you can win, draw or
- [04:14]
Adam Leventhal
lose by the attitude that we showed today, the desire, the dominance, it was really impressive.
- [04:20]
Art De Roche
So I'm really happy it showed that they are able to get through these tough patches, which is something that's going to be absolutely necessary if they do get over the line come May.
- [04:30]
Adam Leventhal
And it was interesting, Jay, wasn't it? Obviously it was such a gift and, you know, testament to that that Randall Kolo Moane's only touch or the only touch for spurs in that first half was. Was the goal compared to what, 29
- [04:44]
Adam Crafton
for Arsenal, we should say in the box.
- [04:47]
Adam Leventhal
In the box.
- [04:47]
Art De Roche
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [04:48]
Adam Leventhal
They did manage to touch it. Occ. Outside of that in the box, you're right. But it was funny watching Declan Rice's reaction because obviously when they'd scored the opener, he was very much switch on all that sort of stuff and then his reaction to conceding the goal was quite relaxed. It was almost as if it was water off a duck's back rather than a massive weight on his shoulders. Which did also then maybe suggest that they have been talking about it.
- [05:13]
Adam Crafton
Yeah, obviously Rice is a very switched on players in England international. He showed the right mentality. And we should point out I've been at a lot of spurs games this season and the atmosphere has been toxic pretty much since November, that famous Chelsea defeat. But there was a real energy in the crowd yesterday from before kickoff when there was a tifo in the stands. There was this pre match video dele. Alli came out at halftime. I think Frank leaving definitely relieved some pent up anger and I think Kola Moane equalized 122 seconds after Eze scored. And the noise in the stadium at that point for Arsenal in successive games to let the lead slip. I did sort of wonder how Arsenal would react to that. And we should point out Gabrielle was maybe a little bit lucky to not give away a fifth goal out of nine for an individual error in the second half. But on both occasions, despite those setbacks, even if K. Moan's disallowed goal didn't count, I think the way Arsenal didn't panic, they continued to do the things that they were doing and they got the win. Sort of shows why they're at the top and also shows why spurs are at the bottom.
- [06:16]
Adam Leventhal
Adam, do you, do you follow the, the trend that they, they've got over this issue or is it still a big issue that, that Arteta hasn't found an answer to? And that's why it keeps on cropping up.
- [06:27]
Jay Harris
Football is still always, it's always going to be a game of mistakes, like people are going to make mistakes and sometimes you get into sort of a habit of a few of them. Yesterday was a weird game because in some ways it was one of the easiest games Arsenal will have because you're against a team that was very, very depleted, didn't really have anything much to bring off the bench. Even, even Solanke, I think, had like a. Was ill when he came off the bench. So I think Tottenham sort of gave what they could, which was, you know, an hour of spirit that was. And, and Arsenal's kind of class showed beyond that. And then, you know, you saw Arsenal were bringing off the Ben, bringing on Martinelli and they're bringing on Erdogan. And you can imagine like every time a Tottenham player who's been out there for an hour turned round and saw who was coming on, they're just thinking, oh my God, how do we come back from this. So, yeah, like, the individual mistakes, like, it's. It's not good. It could cost them in other games. I don't think it's solved, per se. Like, I mean, the Rice one was quite funny just because he'd been so performative in telling everyone else how to behave straight after the goal. And I think, you know, sort of going then with tail between his legs after that. But, yeah, I think the game kind of went exactly how it should have done based on what was available to both teams.
- [07:47]
Adam Leventhal
One of the nicknames that Arsenal fans many, many nicknames for, for spurs is. Is a visit to Dr. Tottenham, because they will. They will sort you out. And is. Is at the front of the queue just lapping up the medicine at the moment. Five goals in. In two games. He needed that, didn't he? And I suppose from his perspective, he wants to be able to build on that as much as, you know, Gyokorez, which we'll talk about a little bit later on as well.
- [08:11]
Art De Roche
Yeah, 100%. After the game. I thought Mikel Arteta was really interesting in the way he spoke about Eze, because he was quite honest that Eze was upset not to start at Wolves. So in that game it was Bukayo Saka playing as the number 10, which is something I thought worked out quite well, even though the result was what it was. When you look at the performance, he was the one that opened the score and he was very kind of neat and tidy in that area of the pitch. And going into this game, I think when you saw Eze in the starting lineup, I guess the most recent example you have of that is Brentford away, where he was subbed off at halftime. Aside from that, it's not been kind of plain sailing for him since the first North London Derby this season. But it's not only, I guess, this year that he's had a strong record against Spurs. When you look at his last, I believe his last five games, so including his last three at Crystal palace, he's got eight goals against Tottenham. So I think he's someone who really relishes playing against them. But part of what helps him against Tottenham is there always seems to be that space just on the edge of the box for him and now jokers to take advantage of. When you look back to his hat trick in November, they're all almost identical, like the. The spot that he's in. And I think Jocher has actually did speak after the game about kind of seeing that from the first game of the season and wanting to replicate that himself. So for Eze, it's a massive, massive, I guess, performance as well as result, because you saw the confidence come back as well. I think the second half, you saw the little feints, the little nutmegs that we haven't really seen. We haven't really seen that in the Premier League for, I'd say a couple months, really. So it was really nice to see that back out again. Hopefully he's able to continue that in the league. For the last 10 games, I was
- [10:06]
Adam Leventhal
very much watching it as a neutral, but even I was just laughing. The fact that he was laughing on the pitch.
- [10:13]
Adam Crafton
Well, the second time again he's done it. He laughed. The game at Emirates Stadium. I just think there's something to be said about Spurs. I know we're going to get into it a little bit later, but they played Arsenal twice this season. They've gone with a back three on both occasions. Right. So trying to offer some sort of defensive solidity. They've conceded eight goals, lost 41 twice. North London Derby is never a free hit, but expectations from the spurs fans were probably never as low in recent history going into a North London derby. But the first half was encouraged. A little bit encouraging, but then to fall off in the second half like that. There were just so many occasions in the second half where Eze was running through unchallenged and I still can't quite. It's what my next piece is going to be. Wrap my head around how spurs can start with technically four central midfielders, but Polynya playing in about three. But you've just got the opposition's number 10 just constantly in time and space on the ball. Just fundamentally the approach didn't work at all.
- [11:07]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, we'll get stuck into Spurs a little bit later on because there certainly wasn't a. A new manager bounce in any way, shape or form, was there, Adam? From the point of view of the broader picture, obviously Manchester City won again this weekend. Four wins out of five, albeit it was a very ugly win. Do you see them? Because, you know, the narrative is, oh, it's, you know, Arsenal are going to slip up. Arsenal going to slip up. You don't see them as immune from slipping also, do you?
- [11:33]
Jay Harris
No, not at all. Like every. It's very rare. I think there's only one game this season where I've watched Manchester City and thought they looked like champions and that was when they beat Liverpool 3 nil. And that was like, what, September, October maybe. But then sort of as the season's gone on, you think about what Liverpool have become and that game looks, you know, obviously it was a good performance but it looks less kind of defining since then. They win games, but even when they win games they really fall off it in a second half. It was crazy to me that the team that had traveled all the way across Europe midweek in Newcastle looks fresher than Manchester City in the second half. I still don't think Rodri is anywhere near what he was pre injury and I think that's causing them issues in central midfield. They don't have control of the game but they're still, you know, they're within striking distance. So for everything that people can criticize City for, I think they're close enough. But I really do think that, I do think Arsenal will go to City and win. I just think they've got the quality this season to go and do that and let's see if they can. Let's Arsenal fans have this trauma and I think the players to a certain extent have this trauma as well. But they have the quality in there to do it. They just have to go do it. So I really do think, I've kind of said it all year that Arsenal's biggest opponent this year, it's not man City, it's themselves.
- [13:03]
Art De Roche
Yeah.
- [13:03]
Jay Harris
And if they can, if they can channel that energy and that aggression then they should be okay. I think their next, their next four or five games will be, will probably define it for them because they've got Chelsea in their, Bournemouth in their Man City in their Brighton away which you know, it's not as hard as it was maybe a year ago but I think that those are probably the games that will push them. And they've got a four day period, haven't they next week which is Chelsea, then Brighton away. That to me looks like the kind of toughest two game. I don't know if you're doing it as like little bubbles of games. If they can get six points from that, I think they'll win the League. I really do. I really do think that they can't lose that gap. No, they can't lose that gap before they go to City. I think that would cause them real anxiety.
- [13:54]
Adam Leventhal
I, I have to bring Art in on this because when you said that they were going to win, Arsenal going to win at Manchester City, that game is on, on April 18th. Obviously they've got the, the Carabao Cup Final in between in what, just under a month's time to come. Arts face was like don't tempt fate. Don't say things like that. Are you feeling as confident as Adam is about Arsenal?
- [14:15]
Art De Roche
I guess. Honestly, no. But that's, as he said, because of what's happened in the past few years. And I. I think looking at that game in April, I don't think Arsenal need to be scared going to Manchester City. They can actually go there and be brave. I feel because they've shown in the past two years that they can go there and compete. They haven't won there. They've drawn twice in the last two seasons, but they've been so close to winning and that was with 10 men last season. I think they have a squad that can win there. What I guess holds me back is, as I said, even though neutrals can be quite confident about what they say about Arsenal. The Wolves game midweek, that didn't come as a total surprise just because of the mistakes that we've seen throughout this season. It's almost like you're waiting for Arsenal to prove themselves to themselves, if that makes sense. Going into the final 10 games of the season, I think both them and Manchester City are going to drop points. I think is. I don't know if this makes sense, but it feels like it's going to be about who is kind of less bad than who is better or if
- [15:28]
Adam Leventhal
they hold their nerve.
- [15:29]
Art De Roche
Yeah, basically.
- [15:30]
Adam Leventhal
Ultimately. And I'll bring this in. And we've been talking about it prior to recording the OPTA Power rankings. Basically, they rank games according to their difficulty. So green games are easier, white are challenging, red for difficult. And City do have a slightly more difficult run in than Arsenal. But we do know that if both sides win all their games or either side win all their games, that's going to include a victory against their rival. They will go on and win the title. Who do you see as being in pole position? Is it simply down? Well, Arsenal have to be because they've got the points in the back.
- [16:10]
Art De Roche
No. And I think it's going to change. Basically.
- [16:13]
Adam Crafton
You're not going to get this guy on record committing to anything.
- [16:17]
Art De Roche
Plead the fifth. No, but I genuinely. The mood is going to change so many times, I think in this next two months. It almost seemed like it was the end of the world on Thursday morning for Arsenal fans, let's say, in terms of the players and the staff. Mikel Arteta was very kind of adamant that their reaction was tremendous, was his words. And I think we will see the proof of that with how they performed away at spurs this weekend. But if you're looking at the run in, and I know Adam has his Thoughts on the supercomputer. But when I've seen two of Arsenal's most difficult games this season be Wolves home and away, I don't want to count any chickens too early.
- [17:03]
Adam Leventhal
Adam, you don't fancy these rankings, do you?
- [17:06]
Jay Harris
No.
- [17:07]
Adam Leventhal
Well, tell us why. Tell us why. Come on.
- [17:09]
Jay Harris
Well, they purely. So it's like a three color system. So it's green for easier, white for challenging and red for difficult. And it seems purely to be based on position in the table and bears no accounts and counting for form. No accounting for a point in the season where it might actually be easier to play a team who is safe in 11th than it is to play a team that is 18th or 17th. So you know, anything that ranks games against leads is easy, which or easier given that Leeds have lost like two games in 14 or something like that or has. Let me find a good example.
- [17:50]
Adam Leventhal
Well, no, the example that you've just said there. Leeds away, Manchester City's next three games, Leeds away, Forest at home and West Ham away are all considered to be easy games, which they aren't. They're just based on positions in the table. So I do give you it.
- [18:05]
Jay Harris
But then the one that comes after that, Crystal palace at home. Crystal palace who were at the moment a little bit of a basket case, although they did beat Wolves this weekend. That cannot be easier than West Ham away. Let's come back in four weeks after Opta is proven right.
- [18:20]
Adam Leventhal
Indeed.
- [18:20]
Jay Harris
And I'm proven wrong. But anyway, be wary of super computers that don't bring into account form and the state of a season. I would say quite right.
- [18:31]
Adam Crafton
You definitely wouldn't say that Crystal palace at home is easier than leads away, which is what the supercomputer says.
- [18:38]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, that's true.
- [18:39]
Jay Harris
Sorry Opt.
- [18:40]
Adam Leventhal
Computers are taking over the world. We fear computers. We fear change. You can ignore them, but we will check back in and see how it all panned out. At the end of the season obviously, but along the way. And we will also next be ranking who has the trickiest run ins at the other end of the table because that's what matters for Spurs. And we'll also be talking about Victor Jokers.
- [19:05]
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- [20:41]
TurboTax Advertiser
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- [21:43]
Adam Leventhal
par
- [21:44]
Jay Harris
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- [22:26]
Adam Leventhal
Erard Victor Yokerez seals it with muscle and poise.
- [22:35]
Jay Harris
It's Arsenal again and Victor Y is
- [22:39]
Adam Leventhal
at the heart of it. So the third subplot to the North London Derby that I mentioned a little bit earlier on was Victor jocherez. Scoring twice 8 in 12 in all competitions for him more goals in 2026 than any other player in the Premier League. His best performance for Arsenal Art 100%.
- [22:58]
Art De Roche
I think his all round play was what everyone's been waiting for. But the first goal, I think when people watching his tapes, if you want to call it that, from not just Coventry but Sporting as well. Everyone's seen that powerful strike which I think I guess keepers just can't, can't stop and we haven't seen that yet until the North London Derby. So there are a few things that a lot of people have been waiting to see that they saw. I would say there were still, I guess aspects of this game that you're wanting to see improvements from. So for instance, for me, one thing I think he can still improve at a lot is making the ball stick when Arsenal can go long. To him, whether it's David Raya or one of the center backs, I think the ball bounces away from him too much. Even in the North London Derby it happened quite a few times. But the way he was able to kind of find space to cause chaos with Drageson in particular, but also the little combination play as well with E at times was, was very nice. So you're hoping that that's a kind of a sign of things to come. I'd say that performance would be the blueprint for what people would want to see from him in the final kind of stretch of the season.
- [24:14]
Adam Leventhal
Now I don't want to kill the positivity but we have to say but this was against the patched up spurs side and seven of his 10 Premier League goals have come against the bottom six, which obviously includes Spurs. There's Leeds, Sunderland, Everton, Burnley and Forest as well. And he's not scored against a team higher in the table than ninth. So we have to sort of temper the levels of praise, don't we Jay?
- [24:38]
Adam Crafton
Yeah, definitely we should. Maybe people don't realize, but I think that was Dragons in's fourth game since he came back from an ACL injury and I think it's fair to say he's not one of Tottenham's best center backs anyways. Normally Christian Romero would be, would be playing there instead of him and that would be a very different challenge. Romero and Yokerez. But Dragonson's never been the most comfortable on the ball. He's not the quickest. So it sort of made sense that Yokerez was focusing on that right hand side of the pitch where Palina is a central midfielder who's been dropped into a bat three. Dragonson's coming off 11 months out with a really serious injury and so his physicality and speed can, can take advantage of those players. And then there are just other areas across the pitch where spurs were missing people. So Destiny Doggy, probably their first choice left back, he wasn't playing. Pedro Poro, their first choice right back's not there. Rodrigo Bentenkur is out. Mohamed Kudos is going to be here for ages, for a long, long time. So it's the second season in a row where they've had, they've grappled with this injury crisis. So yes, Arsenal did incredibly well to sort of take advantage, but spurs were completely depleted and Igor Tudor didn't really have that many options. He sort of had to play that way, that system. Whereas Arsenal obviously far more stable with the relationships and just the formations that they use. So there's no real surprise that they took advantage in the way they did.
- [25:53]
Adam Leventhal
Adam, what was your take on Jocher's performance? Because obviously there's been accusations of being a flat track bully, but you know, it might be in, you know, one or two games that he can get Arsenal over the line and it will change the narrative. Games that they drew last season, they, they won't be drawing this.
- [26:09]
Jay Harris
Yeah, he was really good yesterday. He was dominant, powerful. I think there's times where you watch him and I think he, like, he almost spends a little bit too much time because of his physicality, kind of worrying about having that physical edge over the opponent rather than, you know, being in the positions that really influence games and getting sort of dragged into the, the tussle more than kind of being where he needs to be. This is take nothing away from the finish. I was just amazed with the with the first goal that he scored, like just how he had so much time. Yeah, To. To. To take it down, to turn and shoot on the edge of the box, like a minute and a half into a second half. It was. It was crazy from a Spurs perspective, but you could see what the goal just did for his confidence and his belief. And you hope now for him, because I think he's had. I think he had a bit of an unfair amount of stick. I think people maybe underestimate that. It's not been easy for Arsenal to transition into having kind of a proper number nine after a couple of years of having kind of very different profiles in that position. And also the amount of that. Arteta has changed it as well within the season. It's felt a little bit at times, like you're not quite sure who he'd start in those positions in big games. So I. I think it was a really good day for him. But, you know, there's going to be a lot of big days for him and for Arsenal over the next six, seven weeks. You know, big Champions League games against Manchester City, twice, the Chelsea game. And he's, you know, if he can come out of that with, you know, another 10 goals between now and the end of the season, then it'll go down as an unbelievable signing, because that's how it. That's how it works. But the thing with Arsenal, and I appreciate I did this earlier in the show when I just said they'd go and beat Man City, it's like if they win a game, the reaction to them varies so differently to when they draw a game. And I think we don't often enough just sort of bear into account, just the whole journey that Arsenal have been on under Arteta, the progress that they continue to show, because you're just kind of waiting for this definitive moment of are they going to win the Premier League. And based on a draw, a win or a defeat, it feels like it fluctuates so much in terms of the public discussion around them.
- [28:27]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah. And a final word on Joker is it was nice to see Gabriel Jesus at the end of the game giving Jokers a big hug. Pat on the back shows that unity because there was a time when people were saying, no, no, no, we need to be starting Jesus rather than Jokers.
- [28:41]
Art De Roche
Yeah. And to be fair to both of them, in recent weeks, when you've seen Arsenal win games, so Leeds away, Sunderland at home, they've actually kind of switched roles. So at Leeds, Yokerez started, scored, but then Jesus came off the bench and scored. Also in the Sunderland game, Jesus started, didn't score, but Yokerez came off the bench and scored twice. So I think there's loads of, I guess different options there for Mikel Arteta to choose from, which it's going to be really interesting to see what he does and how he sets them up in the next two months because you haven't even got Kai Havertz back yet. Odegaard came off the bench, but he hasn't started a game since his injury at Brentford. So I think there are loads of different ways Arteta can utilize this front line. It's just about getting it right and getting the balance right for, I guess, the right opponents, which he did against Spurs.
- [29:37]
Adam Leventhal
Art, thanks very much for being on the show. When we come back, Jay and Adam are going to be dealing with Spurs.
- [29:49]
TurboTax Advertiser
It's that time of year again for Texas. We all know the stress of the old way of filing. You send your documents off and then absolute radio silence. You're stuck refreshing your inbox and sending awkward just checking in texts, wondering if they've even started. But with TurboTax Expert full service I know my TurboTax Expert takes taxes fully off my plate and updates me every step of the way so I don't have to worry. That way I can get back to the things that matter to me, like going on vacation in the spring or enjoying the NFL off season. So stop chasing updates. It's time to switch to the modern tax filing Solution with Intuit TurboTax. The best part? You can get Experts progress right on your phone while you go about your day. So go for a run or grab a coffee. You'll know your day. Dedicated Expert is handling it, looking for every last deduction to get you the best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve. File with confidence. Visit turbotax.com, only available with TurboTax Full Service Experts real time updates only in
- [30:47]
Art De Roche
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- [31:17]
Adam Leventhal
Ugh.
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Art De Roche
Right?
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And the best part?
- [31:21]
Adam Leventhal
They accept Discover. Except Discover in a little place like this? I don't think so. Jennifer oh yeah, huh? Discovers Accepted where I like to shop. Come on baby, get with the times. Right, so we shouldn't get the parachute pants. These are making a comeback, I think. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, based on
- [31:45]
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- [31:53]
Adam Leventhal
So Arsenal have now won more North London derbies at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium than Tottenham have themselves. It's 43 the tally. More worrying and more pressing for Tottenham is that they are four points above the drop zone with 11 games to go. And yes, it does look that there is only one relegation spot to worry about with Wolves 17 points and Burnley eight points from safety. But spurs are one of those four teams in the mix along with Leeds Forest and West Ham. And over the last 20 games, spurs are in the worst form of those sides. Adam, I'll start with you before I come to Jay. It's a big question this. How do you think the threat of relegation is actually being viewed by Tottenham, judging by their performances and what their players look like and what's being said at the moment?
- [32:45]
Jay Harris
Well, I suppose first if you take it from how it's being viewed by the club, I think it's clear that they were concerned about it because that's why they changed the coach. I think they would have liked to have got to the end of the season with Thomas Frank, you know, still there and they pushed that envelope, if you like, as far as they possibly could. So clearly it's a concern in the boardroom. I think while they have so many players out, I think it's a concern on the field as well because, you know, particularly when those Champions League games come back in and if spurs by some sort of hook or crook, miracle continue in that competition is going to really stretch the squad because you're going to have returning players. And you're asking more of what tends to happen with these injury crisis. People always say, you know, how do you get so many injuries? And often it's because the guys who are asked to, to kind of overcompensate get pushed so far, which then creates another extra injury in doing so. So I think there has to be a real reckoning at some point as spurs, maybe it's in the summer of how they go about recruitment or medical staff or training because they're having far, far, far too many of these and it season. But the performance yesterday, I thought they were okay. A first hour or so I thought they were okay. But it reminds me a little bit of like kind of stopping before I say this. It feels a bit harsh but it. It felt like, I don't know, a championship team playing against a Premier League team in the FA cup where it's like the fans are really up for it. The players are going to be committed and spirited for an hour, but ultimately the quality of the opponent is going to be too much. They're going to bring stuff off the bench, the opponents. And in the end, you know, it's 4:1, but it could have been 5 or 6:1. And it did feel that way a bit. You know, the spurs to me felt quite limited yesterday beyond kind of an increased level of application, I would say. I thought the second goal that was disallowed for Milani was a little bit soft, to be fair. And that obviously could have made it very different.
- [34:47]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, that could have changed the passage of the game. But I think, I suppose on the other side, the officials. There was a clear push or there was contact. Yes. Gabriel made it, made the most of it.
- [34:56]
Adam Crafton
The argument for spurs is firstly go way back to. I think it was September when Arsenal beat Newcastle. Volta Marder pushes Gabriel. The goal stands. When Liverpool beat Spurs at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium in December. Ekatike has two hands on Romero pushes him. That goal stands. So my take on it was just, if the referee allows the goal on the pitch or disallows the goal on the pitch, Var are not going to intervene. And it just happened that yesterday Peter Banks decided, okay, I think it's a foul. But if he'd given the goal, I don't think Var are telling him to go and check it and overturn it. That's just my opinion on it.
- [35:29]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah. Okay, let's not. Let's not get caught in the weeds on that one.
- [35:32]
Adam Crafton
Exactly.
- [35:33]
Adam Leventhal
But in terms of how it's being viewed at spurs, obviously you're, you know, you're at the stadium on a regular basis. You mentioned about the atmosphere being really toxic with the fans towards Thomas Frank and what was going on. Do you sense a genuine anxiety amongst the fans that that maybe isn't manifesting itself amongst the players at the moment? In terms of that real worry. We may well go down, guys.
- [35:56]
Adam Crafton
Yeah.
- [35:57]
Adam Leventhal
What the hell's going on?
- [35:58]
Adam Crafton
Of course there's anxiety about it. It's quite. Maybe funny is not the right word, but the club announced last week that they're freezing the prices of some season tickets. Well, some fans are saying you might have to reduce them because we're going to be in the championship next season. So that that fear does exist. You spoke a little bit about their form. I think it's two wins out of their last 18 in the Premier League. No wins in 2026. And I was on, you know, View from Elaine, the athletics podcast a little bit earlier and I was talking about it and it feels ludicrous to say this about Igor Tudor, but he is under immense pressure. But that is the job that he accepted, right? He is a quick fix manager and he has a game on Saturday against Fulham where he basically has to get three points and get a win. But what's very intriguing because you're talking about how is the threat of relegation viewed around spurs and you've just asked me about the fans, is that Trudeau didn't mention the word relegation once in his press conference. I don't think maybe once, but he was denying it. And he also said, I'm 100% certain spurs will be in the Premier League next season. And then in an interview that, a roundtable interview, Johan Langer did, the sporting director, with a few journalists, including myself, he didn't really allude to relegation either. So, you know, when it's like the elephant in the room, let's just pretend that there's no massive elephant in that corner over there. We're not gonna. If we don't mention the word relegation, then, you know, maybe it doesn't really exist or the, the monster hiding under your bed if you pretend it's not there. And it does feel like that a little bit at the moment because yes, spurs squad is, is very good on paper, but they're missing so many players and I do think there are a few similarities to Leicester City a few years ago when they thought they were immune because of the quality of the squad. I think they might have been in Europe at the time as well. And then everything sort of just snowballed and they still got relegated.
- [37:41]
Adam Leventhal
Well, Jay, you mentioned there about speaking to Johan Langer and you were a group of journalists that spoke with him and there was loads to talk about, obviously Thomas Frank leaving, Igor Tudor coming in, lack of activity in January, Cristian Romero and everything that that entails. What would you say was the most enlightening thing that came from it?
- [38:02]
Adam Crafton
I respect Johan Lange for coming out and doing that. It's something I'd said needed to happen. It can't be the sole responsibility of the, the head coach, whether it's Thomas Frank or Postecoglou or Igor Tudor, to constantly sit in front of a rumour journalist and explain the club's wider issues. So it's good that not just with Langer, but Vinh Venkateshem, the CEO, put some notes in a program before they lost to West Ham last month. So there's a recognition from the club that certainly when Levy was in charge, the communication from senior figures to the fans was abysmal and it's something that they need to fix. But he didn't really give any detail. He said a lot without saying a lot was my takeaway from it. Sort of said that with Thomas Frank, they sort of had to sack him because of the quality of performances, really and the results. Igor Tudor is a quick fix manager who's got a reputation for going into clubs. Udinese, Juventus, Lazio and sort of turning things around in a short period of time. I think the sort of two most interesting things to come out of it were Langer talking about injuries because as I mentioned, this is the second season in a row spurs have really had a difficult time with injuries. And he said it's something they're constantly reviewing with real seriousness. And he pointed out that they've just hired director of Performance Services from Manchester City. His name's Dan Lewinden, or from the City Football Group. That appointment I think was announced in October, but he only started work this month. So clearly having someone in who's going to head up that department is going to oversee everything. You'd like to think in the medium term, long term, their injury record is going to improve. They're certainly going to make some, maybe some changes to the way they do things. And then the other thing was about the long term search for a manager, whatever happens in the summer. And he did sort of reference, you know, offensive football and a particular style of play. But I do think the club need to have a real strategy. I don't think they should be looking at the Premier League, which is what they did last year, and going, okay, Thomas Frank's doing a good job at Brentford. Andoni Ariola is doing a good job at Bournemouth. Oliver Glasner's doing a good job at Palace, Marco Silva at Fulham. Taking those Premier League managers who've maybe overachieved at the smaller clubs and think that you can just translate that to Spurs. They need to say, we want to play in a particular style. This is just going to be the club style. We're going to identify managers who fit that style and it doesn't matter whether they're in the Bundesliga, the French League, La Liga, we're just going to pick them, be the best. Whereas I just think they're too narrow minded and just look at who's Doing a good job in the Premier League because that's what worked with Pochettino when they took him from Southampton. I think there needs to be just a real clear focus and vision on what they want to do because otherwise, just look at their list of managers in the last five, six years. Nuno Espirito, Santo Conte, Postecoglou, Mourinho, Thomas, Frank. They all play in very, very different ways. It just means they have a squad which is just poorly suited to wherever head coach comes in. There needs to be consistency because that's why they constantly make mistakes in the transfer market. Because you're recruiting players for different managers, different executives are recruiting those players, whether it's Levy, Langer, Operatici. It just means it's a mess.
- [40:59]
Adam Leventhal
Adam, are you a fan of sporting directors speaking? Obviously he deserves praise for speaking now in amongst all the sort of difficulties at Tottenham. But just in general terms, do you like sporting directors talking or would you rather they just stay grey?
- [41:15]
Jay Harris
I think the timing is good and like actually to be commended because often, I think I've often found with some of these sporting directors, they like to be very visible in good moments, you know, take some credit at the end of a transfer window that people are excited about, but less visible when, you know, basically the hit the fan and everyone's panicking about, about the direction of the club. So yeah, I think that's good. I mean, clearly there's been some ridiculous times at various clubs over the past few years where you've had situations where, you know, whether it's CEOs or sporting directors are basically just neglected to speak publicly and put it all on a head coach. You know, most famously when, you know, when Chelsea were going through all that turmoil with the, when Abramovich was leaving and you have like Thomas Tutical answering questions about, you know, the, the Russian invasion and what this means for the future of Chelsea, you know, so that's like one of the most extreme examples of it. But from a more kind of day to day basis. I think there's lots of clubs that could learn from what Johan Langer decides to do. And look, spurs fans won't necessarily like all the answers. They might be very skeptical of whether he should even still be there, you know, based on spurs record over the last couple of years. But I do think just in isolation, you know, choosing to do that, you know, whether it's with a fans forum, whether it's with journalists, whether it's with the YouTubers, whatever it is. I think any point at which you choose to engage publicly in difficult times I think is a good thing from leaders in general.
- [42:48]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, I suppose actions need to speak louder than words at the moment for spurs, whatever happens on the field. And I know we mentioned it earlier on the Opta computer and the power rank is just so the listeners know I am obsessed. I'm obsessed today for the next, you know, couple of minutes. Leads have the easiest running and spurs have the next easiest run in. So that's something to maybe grab hold of for Tottenham fans that believe in the Opta power rankings. Final Quick question to both of you. You didn't know this was coming? Jay, first of all, will Tottenham stay up?
- [43:26]
Jay Harris
Yes, yes, Adam, yes, but closer than I think people think it might be.
- [43:32]
Adam Leventhal
Okay, so the drama continues and we will continue to analyze how spurs get on right to the final day of the season where they need to win to stay in the Premier League, perhaps. Jay, thank you very much for your company. Same to you out in the chill of New York. Adam, thanks very much once again. And thanks to Art for coming on earlier on as well. And thanks to you for listening. I'll be back tomorrow.
- [44:01]
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Adam Crafton
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