Can Arsenal or Man City win the quadruple?

Summary

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The Athletic FC Podcast

Episode: Can Arsenal or Man City win the quadruple?
Date: March 9, 2026
Host: Ayo Akinwolere
Guests: Oli Kay, Duncan Alexander, Sam Lee

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Episode Overview

This episode investigates the growing conversation around the possibility of either Arsenal or Manchester City winning an unprecedented quadruple (Premier League, FA Cup, Carabao Cup, Champions League) in the 2025-26 season. Host Ayo Akinwolere and guests Oli Kay, Duncan Alexander, and Sam Lee discuss the formidable challenges, squad dynamics, historical attempts, fixture difficulty, and whether the modern landscape really renders such an achievement possible.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How Big Is the Quadruple Challenge?

[01:55-04:14]

• Oli Kay emphasizes the extreme difficulty:
  • Even for sides favored in all four competitions, the probabilities remain slim due to fixture congestion and need for a "clean bill of health."
  • Sir Alex Ferguson, having managed United's 1999 treble-winning side, repeatedly called winning all four "unrealistic," citing the need for perfect circumstances.
  • Modern football’s concentration of elite resources makes it "more possible" than in past decades, yet it remains a long shot.

“You look at the probability of winning all four. It’s still very difficult… The chances of winning the lot remain very slim.”
— Oli Kay [03:25]

2. Which Squad is Better Equipped?

[04:14-06:01]

• Duncan Alexander compares Arsenal and City:
  • Arsenal looked strongest after last summer’s hefty recruitment, with “two world-class players for each position.”
  • City “have really come back into it,” shoring up with key transfers like Kusanov, Gianluigi Donnarumma, Rayan Ait-Nouri, Marc Guéhi, and Antoine Semenyo.
  • Predicts the Carabao Cup final between Arsenal and City could define the remainder of both teams’ seasons.
  • Mentions historical precedent where an early trophy sparked a title-winning run, like Chelsea under Mourinho.

“If [Arsenal] can get this first trophy over the line, we saw with Chelsea under Mourinho in his first season that it really kind of helped.”
— Duncan Alexander [05:30]

3. The Physical Toll and European Comparisons

[06:13-07:33]

• Sam Lee (Manchester City correspondent) is highly skeptical:
  • Believes neither team will achieve the quadruple, referencing better teams (recent City, Liverpool) who couldn’t do it.
  • Points out that other leagues reschedule or postpone fixtures to protect teams’ European interests; this is not the case in England, making the task doubly hard.
  • English league’s physicality and fixture density act as fundamental barriers.

“Winning the quadruple, four different trophies, managing those, it’s never been done. I don’t think it’ll be done in the next 150 years.”
— Sam Lee [06:55]

4. Squad Depth, Mental Pressure, and Defining Success

[07:51-10:31]

• Oli Kay notes that for Arsenal, any trophy is significant after a drought, while Guardiola would love to finish his City tenure with an unprecedented quadruple.
• Winning “just” two trophies still marks a hugely successful season.
• Cites Liverpool’s near-miss in 2021-22 as an example of just how tough it is—Man City’s comeback versus Aston Villa and Liverpool’s narrow Champions League loss.

“Just to win that first league, that League Cup… that is huge for [Arsenal]... I don’t think either of these teams is going to be judged on whether or not they do the quadruple.”
— Oli Kay [08:25]

5. Arsenal’s Tactical Adaptability

[11:10-12:41]

• Duncan Alexander: Arsenal’s best performance was against Bayern in the Champions League's league stage, showing dominance.
• They possess the squad to adapt to different “game states” but lack consistent demonstration of that in the league.
• Warns the Premier League “run-in” remains unpredictable and competitive.

“For Arsenal it is important… to get that first trophy for a long time under the belt. But… I think the league’s going to be the hardest bit for Arsenal, even with their advantage.”
— Duncan Alexander [11:53]

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Notable Quotes & Insightful Moments

• On Mental and Fixture Pressure:

  “You’ve got to have that squad strength and be able to rotate… basically a clean bill of health in the final weeks of the season.”
  — Oli Kay [02:54]

  “The English league has always been more physical than other leagues, but it’s even more so now. There’s a reason it’s never been done before.”
  — Sam Lee [07:01]

• On the Carabao Cup Final’s Importance:

  “That game will have quite a big say in how these teams get on for the rest of the season… If Arsenal win… it really kind of helped, we could see the same again.”
  — Duncan Alexander [05:30]

• On Liverpool’s 2022 Attempt:

  “That was a season of near misses in the end for Liverpool… probably remembered more for falling just narrowly short in the league and the defeat in the Champions League than for the two that they won.”
  — Oli Kay [15:37]

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Critical Historical Perspectives

Fixture Congestion and Prior Rivals

• Alex Ferguson in 2009 prioritized Champions League over FA Cup, fielding a weakened team in the semi-final against Everton—illustrating sacrifices required and the dilemma even for deep squads [15:14-18:24].

The Psychological Element

• “Relentlessness” of direct competition (Liverpool, City, Arsenal chasing each other) is motivating but draining, as seen when previous title races lost intensity once rivals fell away [18:45].

The Value of Early Trophies

• Mourinho’s Chelsea used early League Cup wins to propel further success—a template City or Arsenal might hope to emulate [19:15-20:28].

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Styles and Tactics: "Winning by Any Means"?

Arsenal’s Style Under Scrutiny

• Some accuse Arsenal of “anti-football,” but Duncan defends their flexibility:

  “You can see a determination in Mikel Arteta... They had a specific plan for Mansfield… In Europe that doesn’t happen. So they have got a favorable pathway and I think they’ll probably enjoy that.”
  — Duncan Alexander [20:49]

• Oli Kay agrees Arsenal are more tactically versatile than credited, with a depth and “winning mentality” that could yield multiple trophies even if not the quadruple [21:54-23:26].

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The Element of Luck: Draws and Pathways

[24:52-29:59]

• The evolution from “double” (FA Cup + League) obsession to “treble” and now “quadruple” reflects concentrated power, but luck remains vital.
• Arsenal are on the "favorable side of the draw" in the Champions League; luck with cup draws can make a critical difference.
• Historical data shows Arsenal have frequently had tough Champions League last-16 draws but have a better route this year.

“You just wonder whether, if they don’t get across the line... whether they will see this as another really big missed chance.”
— Duncan Alexander [29:45]

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Fan Fascination & The Quadruple Narrative

[29:59-31:29]

• Public interest in the quadruple is at a historic high, as indicated by internet search data peaking during key moments.
• The discussion itself is a testament to changes in football’s resource concentration and narrative construction.

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Memorable Sidebar: Late Collapses and Football Drama

[31:29-33:42]

• Duncan recounts witnessing Wickham Wanderers lose a 2-0 lead in stoppage time; illustrates football’s unpredictability and the emotional volatility of even “impossible” tasks.

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Conclusion

The Athletic team agrees:

• The quadruple remains close to impossible—but modern squad depth, resources, and luck mean it’s never been this plausible.
• Early silverware could propel Arsenal or City, but even two trophies would be historic.
• Fixture congestion, psychological pressure, squad adaptability, and the luck of the draw are decisive.
• As Oli said,

  “It’s a really tall order, and particularly in the Premier League, just winning that... takes such a monumental effort for anybody.” [25:57]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Set-up: [01:55–02:39]
• Can anyone do the quadruple?: [02:39–04:14]
• Squad strength City vs. Arsenal: [04:14–06:01]
• Sam Lee on impossibility: [06:13–07:33]
• Judging Arsenal and City’s seasons: [07:51–10:31]
• Arsenal’s tactical evolution: [11:10–12:41]
• Importance of first trophies: [05:30, 08:25]
• Depth and fixture challenges: [15:14–18:24]
• Draw luck and historical perspective: [28:22–29:59]
• Fan fascination & search data: [29:59–31:29]
• Sidebar: Wickham Wanderers drama: [31:29–33:42]

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This episode lays bare the monumental feat facing Arsenal and Manchester City—an achievement so rare that its very pursuit is shaping the talking points, narratives, and calculations of English football’s elite. For neutrals and fans alike, with all the complications, drama, and what-ifs, the dream remains as tantalizing as ever.

Transcript

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[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimol. Arsenal and Manchester City are still in all four competitions after reaching the last eight of the FA cup. So could we see one of these two sides complete the quadruple? Alright, in with us today we have Oly Kay. We've also got Duncan Alexander as well. Oli look, it's the first time in English football history we've got Intermart and there are two sides still in in all competitions with the possibility of completing the quadruple. Just how big a task is it ahead for both Arsenal and Manchester City?

[Oli Kay]

It's clearly very Difficult. I mean, you could, you could say that Arsenal, for example, might be favourites for all four of those competitions. But then you look at the probability of winning all four. It's still, it's still very difficult. I'm sure the bookies odds will reflect that clearly. You know, at the start of every season the there are odds offered on teams winning the lot and they're normally very long odds and I would imagine in Arsenal's case they've come down and down and down, but it's still a long shot. I remember when reporting on Manchester United in the 2000s and early 2010s every year we would ask Alex Ferguson, could you win the lot this season? Is that a realistic target? Or sometimes, could Arsenal win the lot? Could Chelsea win the lot? And his answer was always no. He always felt Manchester United had won the treble in 1999, but he always felt it required everything to fall into place and basically a clean bill of health in the final weeks of the season. So that you've got that squad strength and able to rotate games from Prepsa as it used to be an FA cup final on a Saturday to a Champions League final on the Wednesday. He felt that everything was in place for 1999 and never really after that. So his view was that it wasn't possible. It's probably never been more possible than in the 21st century where it's generally only a small cluster of teams winning everything. But I think in order, you know, the chances of winning the lot remain very slim.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

Yeah, Duncan will delve into that a little later on. But let's just focus on these two teams because also Arsenal and Manchester City are the only Premier League sides currently to score over 100 goals in all competitions this season. When you look at both these squads, which do you think is more equipped to go the furthest?

[Duncan Alexander]

It's an interesting question that, because I think if you go back a few months, you'd have probably definitely said Arsenal after their recruitment last summer where you know, obviously brought in a lot of players and basically have two world class players or very good players for each position. But I think in the last sort of month or so City have really come back into it. And if you look at players like Kusanov, who they signed last January, transfer window, they obviously strengthened again in the summer. Players like Donna Roma has obviously made a really big impact, but someone like Ryan Ait Nuri, who has had a slow start but is starting to come into his own a little bit as well. And then obviously they went again and Filled some gaps this January with Mark Gay and Antoine Semeno, who I think probably, you know, it's quite a 1990s sort of move, that very Manchester United in the 90s, sort of going to a Premier League rival and sort of picking off two of the best players to help your squad. And I think it's working. I think City are kind of, you know, they're not the favourites to win the Premier League or the Champions League, but it's pretty much a coin toss for the Carabao Cup Final. And I do actually think that game will have quite a big say in how these teams get on for the rest of the season. Because I think if City beat Arsenal, then you'd imagine there could be some mental issues for Arsenal going into the other competitions. Whereas I think if Arsenal win, it is really sort of, you know, they haven't won the League cup since 1993, which is sort of ridiculous in itself, but if they can get this first trophy over the line, we saw with Chelsea under Mourinho in his first season, that it really kind of helped. And I think we could see the same again.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

Okay, well, before we go any further, let's hear from our Manchester City writer, Sam Lee. Here's what he makes of either City or Arsenal's chances and whether a quadruple is even possible.

[Sam Lee]

Personally, I just don't see. Well, I don't see either of these teams winning it because there have been better teams in the past, very recent past, that haven't been able to do it. A lot of the City teams, well, all of the City teams that have won trophies and the last few years are better than this City team. They're better than Arsenal at the moment and Liverpool as well. You know, in 2022, they came relatively close to doing it, but they couldn't. They're better than these two teams at the moment as well. But also, if you look at the Spanish league, the French league, the Portuguese League, they're rearranging fixtures or postponing fixtures to make it easier for their teams. You don't get that in England. So the deck is kind of stacked against the English clubs in that respect as well. Also, the English League has always been more physical than other leagues, but it's even more so now. There's a reason it's never been done before. Winning the quadruple, four different trophies, managing those, it's never been done. I don't think it'll be done in the next 150 years. Or if it is, it'll be Done once, but basically too physically demanding. All the players have played so much football over the last few years, they're basically a breaking point. Anyway, other leagues, they try and offset that physical disparity by giving their players better rest before Champions League games. And just the fact that City and Arsenal will be going up against each other makes it more likely that, you know, one team might win this and the other team wins that. And then there's just the fact that these two teams, they're not as good as previous teams that have come close.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

Yeah, super interesting there from Sam Oli. He mentions intensity. He also mentions the amount of games that teams have to play. Look, Pep Guardiola won two trebles in his time at Manchester City in 2019 and 2023. Surely the quadrupl is the last thing left for him to tick off.

[Oli Kay]

Yeah. And particularly as we're sort of talking about the possibility of him moving on at the end of the season, I mean, that's sort of gone very quiet on that front, but I think there's still that possibility. He will want to. Absolutely. I mean, he's made history so many times with Barcelona and with City in particular, but it is so much easier said than done. And I think in the case of Arsenal, I think almost talking about, can they win the quadruple? I mean, we're talking about a team, a club that hasn't won a trophy since 2020. And I'm not saying that to knock them down by any means. It's just, just to win that first league, that league cup in that final against Manchester City in a couple of weeks time, that, that is huge for them. To win the Premier League again after what would be 22 years is huge for them. I don't think either of these teams is going to be judged on whether or not they do the quadruple. Obviously, if they achieve it, they certainly will. But you know, it's not any kind of failure if you win two of those trophies, for example. And I think just go back to Liverpool in 2022. So Liverpool was still in with a shout of the quadruple going into May. They'd won the League cup. They were through to the Champions League final. They then played the FA cup final. So I think, yeah, even going into the final week of the season, they were the shout, were they?

[Duncan Alexander]

The final 10 minutes of the league game, wasn't it? Was in Villa Kane.

[Oli Kay]

Yeah. And then Man City came from 2 nil down to beat Aston Villa 32 in that strangely sort of overlooked, strangely forgotten last day drama. And then Liverpool played really well in the Champions League final, but. But were beaten by Thibaut Courtoire and, and Real Madrid. So it's just, it's. It's so difficult. But where I disagree slightly with Sam Pabst and I think you can look at Europe at the moment and say that Sam was saying that this isn't a great Manchester City team. This isn't a great. He felt that this Arsenal team isn't up there with the Liverpool and Manchester City teams of the recent past. And I would probably agree with that. But I also feel there's a bit of a gap at the top of European football at the moment. So even if, you know, I don't think Real Madrid and Barcelona and Bayern are at the level that they were a decade ago or more recently than that. So I do feel that even if you were saying Arsenal aren't as good as those teams in the past, I think they are. I think they've been the best team in Europe this season, so they have got as good a chances as anybody. But it's so difficult and no, they won't do it.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

No, I'm with you. I mean, but Duncan, I mean, Oli makes a really good point, actually, because I was. You know, we talk about the, the quadruple here. I mean, Arsenal haven't won a trophy in absolutely ages. And even the Premier League alone, or even a League cup alone will be a notch, you know, higher than they've. They've achieved over the last how many years? Right. But also, I do look at this squad that Arsenal do have at their disposal, and it's a squad technically built to play with different game states, different types of styles, different types of teams. We probably haven't seen that from this squad, I would say, this season, but they do have that depth inevitably. So if they are going to go ahead and do this, they kind of do have a squad that can achieve it.

[Duncan Alexander]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think Arsenal's best display of the season and I think maybe the best team performance I've seen this season was Arsenal beating Bayern in the, in the league stage of the Champions League earlier in the, in the autumn. And they completely, other than maybe, you know, five minutes here and there, they completely dominated Bayern and Bayern hadn't even dropped a point in either competition at that point. So I think this Arsenal team, particularly, as we'll come on to talk about with the draw they've got in the Champions League, I think that's a pretty. It's going to. It's surely one of their best opportunities to win the Champions League ever in their history. I mean, to Ollie's point about Liverpool in 21, 22, you know, not all parts of a quadruple are made equal, are they? I mean, you know, I think that season for Liverpool fans is probably looked on as a bit of a wasted opportunity now. You know, yes, they won the the League cup and the FA cup, which for fans of many teams up and down the country would be an incredible greatest season ever. But I think to come that close to winning the League, I think even they'd probably, Liverpool fans would probably swap, you know, both of those cups for just the League or just the Champions League. So yeah, I think for Arsenal it is important, as you say, to get that first trophy for a long time under the belt. But yeah, I think the League's going to be the hardest bit of that for Arsenal, even with their advantage. We've had a few seasons, haven't we, recently, where the sort of the run in has been a little bit over by this point or, you know, last season we kind of knew Liverpool were going to win the League. So I'm really sort of relishing the drama that we've got upcoming in the next couple of months.

[Oli Kay]

So you don't think it's a one horse race for Arsenal?

[Duncan Alexander]

No, I think if City win their game in hand and beat Arsenal at the Etihad, it's a one point league table. So I think it's still alive there. I mean, obviously per various supercomputers are some of strong favorites, but yeah, there's still a long way to go.

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[Matt from P1]

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[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

Ahead of the weekend on the Athletic, Dan Sheldon wrote a piece looking back at the historic attempts to complete a quadruple in English football. Oli, we've already referenced Liverpool in 2022. Is that an achievement remembered as well as it could have been given they missed out on the two biggest trophies?

[Oli Kay]

Yeah, I was at Anfield for that final game against Wolves in 2022 and obviously they'd won the FA Cup a week earlier and they were sort of on Manchester City's sort of coattails going into the final league game. They needed things to go their way. And honestly, the atmosphere as it sort of spread around Anfield, that Man city had gone 1 nil down and then 2 nil down at Hogwarts and Villa, that felt like that was going to be one of the most sort of dramatic final days. And you know, there was this incredible opportunity there for Liverpool, who at that time were being held by Wolves. And the sort of eruption in the ground when Mo Salah, I think put Liverpool ahead in that game was enormous. But then people realized that Man City had actually turned it around at the Etihad, which as I said before, is strangely overlooked in the sort of pantheon of great Premier League drama. It just doesn't seem to be talked about that incredible comeback on the last day. So, yeah, I mean, as Duncan said, that was a season of near misses in the end for Liverpool. That it's probably remembered more for falling just narrowly short in the league and the defeat in the Champions League than for the two that they won. But one thing which I think is a real illustration of how hard it is is when you see when the fixtures come and when the, for example, when the FA cup semi finals are normally scheduled in April, that is normally when you've got Champions League semi finals around the same time. So I remember in 2009, Manchester United had won the League Cup. They were well equipped to, very well placed to win the league. They were through to the FA cup semi finals against Everton, clear favorites for that. But they were still battling through Champions League quarterfinals at that stage. And that the FA cup semi final against Everton fell straight after the Champions League quarterfinals. And this big intense run of games. And Ferguson in the FA cup semi final, against all expectations, basically fielded a reserve team almost because he felt so many players were kind of completely on the edge. And they still took Everton to penalties, but Everton won on penalties. So as desperate as he was to win the quadruple and win the lot that season, he felt that something had to give. And I think maybe you could look at this Arsenal squad now or even the Manchester City squad now and say, look, they've got, they're even deeper than those squads of the late 2000s. But there aren't too many sort of, no disrespect, you know, Federico Mercada, Derek Gibson types coming in the team. It's, it's a, it's a higher level of squad, but it's still so difficult when those fixtures fall. So I've just looked at the FA cup semi finals are scheduled just before the Champions League semi semi final first leg. So if Arsenal could have Barcelona in the Champions League semi final, Manchester City could have Liverpool or PSG or Chelsea in the semi final. I think if they've got an FA cup semi final a few days later, they'll be, they'll be resting a lot of the big guns. So that's, that's another thing to take into account.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

Luck of the draw. Naturally we'll come into that later on at Duncan. But I also think about whether you do need a team that goes toe to toe with you. You know, we've spoken about Pep's team. Liverpool were obviously on their coattails obviously this time around. Arsenal, Manchester City on their coattails as well, just to drive you for that level of perfection really, as you're aiming to achieve the unachievable.

[Duncan Alexander]

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I think we saw with Liverpool last season that they kind of just petered out towards the end because there was not much to play for. And this, this kind of relentlessness, I think really, really drives teams on at this stage of the season. So, I mean, just on on the point of Ferguson and League Cups as well, I think we can credit Jose Mourinho who obviously came sort of close, did a, did a Liverpool 2122 in 0607 with, with Chelsea won both domestic cups, second in the Premier League and lost in the semis to Liverpool in the Champions League. But Mourinho kind of reinvigorated top club's interest in the League cup because it's easy to forget that sort of from the mid to late 90s through to the mid 2000s, Wenger and Ferguson just used the League cup as a sort of training exercise for their up and coming players. And that really kind of, you know, kind of removed any chance of the quadruple really. So Mourinho kind of brought that back and it was interesting obviously, as we just talked about, that United did land the, the League cup in that season, but yeah, decided to rotate for the, for the FA Cup. So yeah, I think obviously we are in a pretty unique situation here where City and Arsenal both are still in, in that position. We, we're recording this before the draw for the FA cup quarterfinals. But there's some, there's some big teams in there. There could be a very tricky tie for, for these teams. There's also some, shall we say, favorable routes to the semis or the final at least. So yeah, it's interesting to see what comes out of the hat later.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

I think the name Port Vale is probably what you're thinking there. Duncan, no problem. I see what you're saying.

[Duncan Alexander]

It's a good side there on the way back. John Brady's doing a good job, but yeah, I am.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

Could I just ask though, you know, we talk about Jose Mourinho and his winning ways and sort of bringing more sort of emphasis back onto the League cup because the trophy is still a trophy. But I'm just looking at this current Arsenal side and you know, some of the complaints some people have of them being anti football in many respects. Duncan, winning by any means necessary, not necessarily through style and pizzazz. Do you see any similarities here?

[Duncan Alexander]

I think you can see a determination in Mikel Arteta and a manager who plots each game on its own merits. You know, they had a specific plan for Mansfield at the weekend and why wouldn't you? Because, you know, even League one teams are incredibly well prepared in this day and age. I think the kind of set piece stuff is slightly overblown. I mean, some of Arsenal's performances in the Champions League this season, where teams don't set up like Premier League teams do against them? They've looked a really, really good footballing team. I think almost as mad as it sounds. The Champions League is almost like the kind of the fun free hit bit of Arsenal season because everyone in England is so determined to sit deep and play the lowest of blocks against them, whereas in Europe that doesn't happen. So you know, they have got a favorable pathway and I think they'll probably enjoy that.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

Have Arsenal learned to play a bit differently if they are going to achieve the quadruple? Oli having to maybe play differently amidst these low blocks and, but also are able to express themselves in the competition like the Champions League.

[Oli Kay]

Yeah. And I think they will find themselves up against low blocks in the Champions League. I suspect any team who's watched the way they play will be probably better prepared to face them than some of the teams were that facing them. League phase. I think teams in the Champions League have look, looked nothing like as well prepared against set pieces. You look even, you know, Liverpool were scoring loads from set pieces in the, in the Champions League earlier in the competition while not able to get, basically not able to get a corner past the first man in the Premier League. That's changed a bit more recently, but it's, it's, yeah, I, I, I feel Arsenal have got a real variety and a real variety of options they've got. Sometimes, sometimes you don't see much variety in their performance within a game or in their style within a game but they do have different ways that they can set up and different ways they can set up to win a game. So yeah, I, I think they, I think they do have the depth to certainly win more than one trophy this season. I wouldn't say quadruple is a realistic goal at all, but it's, you know, they do have a, a real resilience and winning mentality which I think they are not given credit for. B the various weapons that they are certainly sort of recognized in terms of the set pieces and so on and just different ways of playing and being good at it and the squad depth. They have significant things in their favor.

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You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IowaKamolere.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

One of the things we've spoken about is obviously Liverpool coming closest to a quadruple in recent years. But is it a one off? I think Sam at the top said it's almost impossible to win the quadruple. Ali. But I'm just thinking about the resources available to Premier League clubs right now. Even from the days of Manchester United when Sir Alex Ferguson was going for it. You know, the depth in squads, but not just the depth. I'm talking recruitment, not just on the pitch, but in terms of staff as well. You know, data and all those kind of things. Is it inevitably just one of the hardest things to achieve based on that alone?

[Oli Kay]

I'm old enough to have grown up and I dare say, Duncan the same in an era where the double, the double, just winning the league in FA cup was just mythologized as an achievement. And I think it happened twice in the late 19th century. Then spurs did it in 1961, Arsenal 71, Liverpool 86. Man United then did it three times in the 90s. And then it's just there's been a succession of doubles since the 1990s. Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City. So much so that people have always lost track of what the double is because it's sort of seen as something that just happens. Then it turns to can anyone do the treble? Then it's can anyone do the quadruple? And the fact that we're talking about it as a realistic possibility for two teams, it just shows how. And the fact that we talk about it season after season, really, it shows that how concentrated the financial resources, the playing resources, talent et CETERA are now within a really small group of teams. So is the same teams generally in competition for the prizes season after season? That is a 21st century phenomenon. It seems far more achievable now than it ever did in the 80s 90s, for example. But it's still a really tall order and particularly I think in the Premier League where just winning that is, just takes such a monumental effort for anybody.

[Duncan Alexander]

Yeah, I mean, we should point out that even doing a quadruple is pretty much limited to England alone because we're still foolish enough to have two domestic cup competitions. France had, France had the Coupe de la Ligue, but they got rid of that. But yeah, I mean, still, if you look at Trebles, if we take the treble of domestic league, domestic cup and European Cup, Champions League, like it's only ever been done 11 times, which to all his point about doubles, that's still a very, very hard thing to do. Obviously only City and United have done it here. Barcelona have done it a couple of times, but it's a very, very hard thing to do. So, yeah, the fact we're even talking about a quadruple is, is slightly ridiculous. And yes, it does come down to squad strength and team strength and league strength and financial strength, etc. But it's also as someone, to Ollie's point, who my first. Everyone remembers the first cut final I saw. The first one I remember was 1986 and I remember all the, all the, this is the double. And you know, my young brain being, oh, this sounds fun, you know, and then, you know, you learned those dates, didn't you? 71, 61. And then the Villa and the Preston one should point out Preston rotated their goalkeepers in 1888. 89. Very modern. But I mean, I think football fans are kind of like hardwired to find these sort of little things interesting. And that's why it is fun to, to have this conjecture about whether City or Arsenal can do it this season because these are the kind of achievements that are still legendary. Even if maybe the style of football to do it, that'll get forgotten in years to come. The trophies won't.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

Yeah, I mean, I want to touch on just before we wrap this up about the quadruple. You know, something you've spoken about already, Duncan, is the luck of the draw. You know, you've spoken about a favorable FA cup draw. If Arsenal ended up winning the Carabao cup beat Manchester City, perhaps that could kick start something for them in terms of how they see themselves as quadrupl. Quadruple Contenders, you know, the Champions League Jaw could also have a massive, massive impact on that as well. Arsenal, some might say, look to be on the more favorable side of the draw in many respects. So why not let them dream?

[Duncan Alexander]

Yeah, I mean, we've got a piece coming on the Athletic on Tuesday by Conor o', Neill, which is kind of a big data dive on, you know, strength of draws and pathways in Champions League. And historically, if we take the champions league since 03 04, which was when it moved into its post second group stage format that no one lamented, Arsenal had the second toughest last 16 draws historically in that period. So they've kind of earned a good side of the draw. But the fact is that it still came down to luck this time because basically Bayern and Arsenal got drawn to see which half of the draw they were in. And Arsenal could easily be on the Bayern half, along with City and Chelsea and PSG and Liverpool. So. So it does feel in that sense that the Cards are sort of falling for them this season. And a bit like in 03 04, where they lost to Chelsea in the quarterfinals of the Champions League and really probably should have won the Champions League that season. They were the best team in Europe by some distance. You just wonder whether, if they don't get across the line in one or several competitions this year, whether they will see this as another really big missed chance.

[Oli Kay]

Just before we started, I just looked because I was fascinated by the idea that this is being talked about and I just looked on where you can look on Google Trends and see when certain words have been searched. And in the uk, the word quadruple is currently at its second, the second most it's ever been searched for. And the high by far was in May 2022, which is that Liverpool period we're talking about now. I'm not saying that nobody was talking about it back in, in. In the late 2000s when Manchester United were going for it, but maybe, Maybe they were using.

[Duncan Alexander]

They're probably an. Ask Jeeves.

[Oli Kay]

Exactly. You've stolen mine.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

Do you remember those old search engines? Oh, man.

[Oli Kay]

Altavista. Yeah, so it's something that has barely been a worthwhile piece of narrative or so on for many of the recent years. But yeah, that spike in 2022 says that either a lot of fans were interested in it or a lot of people like me were writing about the possibility and Googling it a lot. But yeah, the high point in terms of searches over the past three months for the word quadruple came 4th of February, which I Think was the after Arsenal beat Chelsea in the Carabao semi final second leg. So that tells you that people are suddenly talking about this and suddenly thinking about it and I'm sure if they get past Leverkusen, which I expect then particularly if they beat Manchester City in the Carabao cup final, then it is going to be something that people talk about more and more.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

Before we finish, Duncan, we've got to talk about sides trying to achieve the impossible. And you know what I'm going to be talking about right now? You witnessed something incredible at the weekend following your side, Wickham Wanderers. Tell us more.

[Duncan Alexander]

Yes, I was at the tough chic community stadium to see Wickham who'd climbed into the, into the top six in midweek, take on third place Bolton. So, you know, big game, two teams in form. Wickham proceeded to dominate the first 70 minutes, played really well, two nil up and then got to the 88th minute, two nil up. So you know, pretty, pretty safe field of thought. And then three Bolton substitutes scored in the space of seven or eight minutes. And yeah, I've never seen that happen before. So as someone who enjoys, as we've just talked about unique events in football, then I guess I should be happy. But I probably wasn't that happy at five o' clock it that way.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

Yeah, Ollie, I mean two nil, it does prove that it can be indeed be quite a dangerous scoreline.

[Oli Kay]

Yeah, but it shouldn't be dangerous it's a couple of minutes left, should it Duncan? It's, it's, it's a bit, a bit careless. Do you know, I mean with your stats data head on. What's the, the latest anyone's for example in the Premier League, what's the latest anyone's squandered a 2 nil lead? I remember Manchester City 2 nil up at home to Liverpool. I was at that game reporting on that game late 2000s.

[Duncan Alexander]

Yeah, there was a one quite recently, Everton Matuna up at home to Bournemouth and into the 87th minute. So the, the Bolton Wickham game lasted one minute longer. But yeah, in Optus records it is the latest in the EFL that they've got for sure. I mean a few people kind of messaged me on social media at the weekend and sort of pointed out there's a, there's what? Tranmere Blue one even worse in the, in the National League a few years ago. So it does happen. But, but it's quite an existential moment where you're at a big ground, a big club. There's a lot of fans, over 20,000 fans there grumbling, very disappointed at their team about to lose 2 nil. And then seeing that sort of hope rise and then the noise, the explosion of noise at 3:2 was. It is quite an experience when you see that. It's just not very pleasant when it's your team at a throwing away team. But it is what it is.

[Ayo Akimol (Host)]

Let's leave it there. Jedi Always I appreciate your time. Duncan, Ollie, thanks for joining us too. And also thank you guys for joining us as well. We'll catch you soon.

[Podcast Announcer]

You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroo and Jay Beal with editing by Paul Iliff and Nick Thompson. The executive producer is Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic wherever you go your podcasts. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe the Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.

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