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- [00:00]
Host 1
When I started podcasting, it felt like I had to figure everything out myself. Booking guests, figuring out rundowns, editing the show and publishing it. It seemed like the list of to do's got bigger and bigger and when you're starting off with something new, it seems like that just happens. Finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything can be such a game changer. And for millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household name like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style, accelerate your content creation. Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines and even enhance your product photography. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into a With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com TheAthletic Go to shopify.com TheAthLetic shopify.com TheAthLETic.
- [01:33]
Ayo Akimwale
Is it.
- [01:34]
Host 1
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- [01:48]
Sponsor 1
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- [02:45]
Ayo Akimwale
The Athletic FC Podcast Network welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwale. On a night Manchester City had no margin for error, Kylian Mbappe took away any hope.
- [03:00]
Host 1
Mbappe still has the chance to shoot.
- [03:04]
Thomas Hill
Never any other outcome.
- [03:06]
Ayo Akimwale
With his hat trick, the Frenchman became just the fourth player to score a Champions League knockout hat trick for Madrid, following the footsteps of, well, you know who.
- [03:15]
Host 1
Marcelo all the way.
- [03:16]
Thomas Hill
That's terrific. That's Ronaldo.
- [03:18]
Host 1
That's the tie.
- [03:20]
Ayo Akimwale
That's a perfect hat trick and a.
- [03:22]
Guillermo Rai
Perfect effect by the.
- [03:23]
Ayo Akimwale
So can Mbappe reach Cristiano's levels at Real Madrid? With us today, we have the Athletics, Thomas Hill, Lopez Manero, and our Real Madrid writer, Gillermo Rai, who was at the burner bow as well. Gmo. Wow, wow, wow. What a game. It was such an incredible atmosphere, wasn't it, last night? And also looking at your ex profile, the bus arriving, that was some pure drama. Tell us a little bit more about that.
- [03:53]
Guillermo Rai
Yeah, it was like a scene from the dark night with all the lights and the bus arriving. I think it was pretty impressive, even for a Real Madrid fan or a journalist covering Real Madrid news. We are used to these scenes because it's almost like a tradition. It's called the busiana, when all the people gather at the Bernabeu surroundings and they wait for the team bus to come. But yesterday, I don't know if it was because of the. The night, because of, I don't know, the rival, the opponent, but it was definitely the best. The best night so far this season. Yeah.
- [04:31]
Tom Williams
Yeah.
- [04:31]
Ayo Akimwale
Well, we've been used to seeing, you know, Real Madrid. It's almost quite cliche now. Incredible comebacks, especially in the Champions League. But thanks to Mbappe, it was a little bit different. Much more plain sailing this time around at the Burnabout, a hat trick as well. Is this the moment we've been waiting for? The. The moment that you feel like Mbappe's landed at Real Madrid? He has had a successful season by a lot of counts, but this felt special.
- [04:54]
Guillermo Rai
Yeah, definitely. One month ago, he scored his first hat trick with Real. It was against Valladolid, and we could feel that he could reach this level. It was something that, I think after the Bilbao's defeat, I think that it was a point of inflection. And from that point, he started growing within the squad, and he Started growing in confidence as well, and we started to feel like, okay, this guy can become a leader. And yesterday, I think it was like the pure demonstration that he's already one of the leaders. And yesterday, I think that we all remember Cristiano because of Mbappe's performance. Yeah, yeah.
- [05:35]
Ayo Akimwale
I mean, Thomas, that. That is the likely comparison, isn't it? Cristiano Ronaldo, I mean, he looks like he's fitting into this Madrid squad really well. And last night, wow, just spectacular. All three goals were just beautiful. But is it fair to compare him to Crist? Can we just let the man breathe at Madrid and just enjoy himself?
- [05:55]
Thomas Hill
Yeah, I mean, I think. I think it is fair. Like you say, it seems. It seems a bit unfair because Ronaldo, you know, you're talking about one of the greatest players of all time, but then Mbappe was kind of signed to scale those heights, and at Madrid, those expectations are so much higher than other clubs. I think it is fair to compare them because Mbappe, I think, is now on 28 goals for the season, just five off Ronaldo's total in his debut campaign with Madrid in 2009-10. So, yeah, the comparisons are fair, and he seems to be justifying it now. It just seems crazy that we were ever questioning a player who did have his initial struggles at Madrid, but now is in the best form of his career yet at Madrid.
- [06:33]
Ayo Akimwale
Yeah, yeah. Also, I was just thinking, not just Ronaldo, I mean, that sort of void filled in by Benzema, who had such a beautiful end to his career at Madrid. Thomas, this is that moment where been trying to work with him as a number nine, but it just sort of felt like things looked like they started to click finally for Mbappe, definitely.
- [06:52]
Thomas Hill
And he probably is a different player to Benzema. You know, Benzema was a bit more slower on the ball, dropping deep a bit more. But Mbappe has. Has similar things to Benzema, I think, in terms of the goal scoring. Definitely. I think all three of those finishes last night demonstrated his quality in different ways. You kind of had the. The really controlled finish for that lob for the first goal. You had the close control for the second. Third one was definitely Ronaldo esque. I know that Guillermo, in his piece this morning, compared it to a goal Ronaldo scored against Sevilla when he was in Madrid. So, yeah, it all seems to be coming together for him.
- [07:26]
Ayo Akimwale
Yeah. Guillermo, I don't live in Madrid. I'm not a Madrid fan, but I know how much scrutiny players come under when you play for Real Madrid. Right. And, you know, so Many of us are like, well, Kalina Bappe doesn't look like he's hit the ground running. Yeah, it doesn't look like he fits into this system, and we'll talk about that later. But from a Madrid fan perspective, do we feel like the madristas really have accepted him now? This is the moment where, yes, Kylian Mbappe is one of us. This is exactly what we bought him to do.
- [07:52]
Guillermo Rai
I think from day one, from his presentation, what I felt is that all the Madridistas love him. It wasn't a problem of love or support. But, yeah, from yesterday, I think what Real Madrid fans felt is that they have a new leader. And, yeah, I think that maybe for the majority of fans is the best. Best player within the squad. Yeah.
- [08:16]
Ayo Akimwale
How did last night for you compare to other nights with. With Cristiano Ronaldo, Guillermo? You know, we. We talk about drama, we talk about the. The passion of the Champions League. Madrid and Champions League go hand in hand. The last night did feel like a Madrid Champions League kind of moment.
- [08:33]
Guillermo Rai
Well, I remember triumph with Cristiano against Bolsburgo in 2016. Cristiano scored a hat trick and it was key to come back because they came from a defeat in. In Bolsburg. They have to do this comeback. He scored three goals. Real Madrid go through the next phase, I think was quarterfinals, if I'm not wrong. So I think that there are some moments in which you really need, like, the leaders to step up. And I think yesterday Mbappe did that. It was what Real Madrid need at that moment and at that precise moment, and is when. When it's most needed. I must say that in this season, we don't have to go so far in time. I think that Vinicius has done pretty good performances as well. For example, he scored a hat trick against Borussia Dortmund just a few months ago in this season. But I think it's not the same feeling like with Vinicius. We are talking here about a magnificent player, probably the best last year. Depends on who you ask, right?
- [09:38]
Ayo Akimwale
Don't ask Rodrino.
- [09:40]
Guillermo Rai
Yeah.
- [09:41]
Tom Williams
Or Steve.
- [09:42]
Guillermo Rai
Fans, I can understand Guardiola, you know, but when we talk about Mbappe, we are talking about a player who can score easily five goals in a game. And we wouldn't be really surprised because he has this capacity. I think goal scoring is the best in the world. Maybe Haaland is close to him, but there is nobody above him. So I think it's what he saw yesterday, basically.
- [10:09]
Ayo Akimwale
Thomas, we have to talk about Manchester City. I know we're going to move on. But, I mean, how much are they playing to Real Madrid's hands yesterday? I mean, we think about the first goal and the sort of carelessness from Diaz, you know, trying to knock the ball down, header it and then missing it, and it just felt so calamitous. Did they play into Madrid's hand? Did they make it look easy for Madrid?
- [10:28]
Thomas Hill
Oh, 100%. I mean, I. As you mentioned there, yeah, Diaz for the first goal. That's not the kind of defending we're used to seeing from such an experienced center back like him. Even for the second goal, Gvardiol being left on the floor by Mbappe. But even in the buildup to it, it's just so easy for Rodrigo to latch onto that loose ball and pass it off to Mbappe. I think there was a telling stat that our colleague Ananta Jith flagged about them only winning 32.3% of their duels in the first half, which was their worst in a Premier League or Champions League first half this season. It kind of sums up the problems for Guardiola's side. And, yeah, they totally played into Madrid's hands. I think for teams to succeed at the Bernabeu, on the rare occasions they do, they need to have a clear plan, they need to stick to it, but they also need to rattle Madrid a bit, and they need to rise above that atmosphere that's created on big Champions League nights. And City just didn't do that at all. They couldn't lay a glove on Madrid. Admittedly, Madrid's front four were all in perfect harmony, which happens, and that's hard to counter. But City have their own players. Having Harland out the starting lineup clearly affected them. But, yeah, they didn't lay a glove on Madrid.
- [11:35]
Ayo Akimwale
Some slight smiling from Madrid fans that Guardiola, that the great Guardiola just can't put up the punches anymore this season, especially against a team like Real Madrid. You know, think about the old classicos for sure between Madrid and Barcelona, but there's got to be some beautiful, sweet smiles right now in Madrid.
- [11:53]
Guillermo Rai
Yeah, it's strange because maybe for an outsider, we could say, okay, the biggest opponent for a Real Madrid fan is Erling Haaland, because he's like the best player at Man City. But when the Man City bus came or the Man City coach came to the Bernabeu, the first moment that Real Madrid fans saw the team, Man City, they were chanting against Pep Guardiola. It's always like that. I think that the greatest rival, Real Madrid, has had in the last seasons and when Real Madrid I think it was 30 in the minute, more or less 70 Real Madrid fans started chanting guardiola, stay. Guardiola, please stay. So I think that they are always focused on how Guardiola reacts. There is like a curious relationship between the Real Madrid fan base and Guardiola, between the Bernabeu and Guardiola obviously, because Guardiola in the past has made a lot of suffering to the Real Madrid fan base and obviously to see Guardiola like suffering, really suffering and below his standards I think have made Real Madrid fans a bit happier. Yeah, definitely.
- [13:04]
Ayo Akimwale
Okay, let's move on because next we'll dive deeper into how Kylian Mbappe has adapted to life at Madrid.
- [13:12]
Tom Williams
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Acamolere.
- [13:18]
Host 1
When I started podcasting, it felt like I had to figure everything out myself. Booking guests, figuring out rundowns, editing the show and publishing it. It seemed like the list of to do's got bigger and bigger and when you're starting off with something new, it seems like that just happens. Finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything can be such a game changer. And for millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style, accelerate your content creation. Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into a With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com TheAthletic Go to shopify.com TheAthLetic shopify.com TheAthLETic.
- [14:51]
Sponsor 1
This podcast is brought to you by Aura. Imagine waking up to find your bank account drained, bills for loans you never took out, a warrant for your arrest. All because someone stole your identity. Hackers aren't waiting. Why are you? That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Your personal data is a goldmine for hackers and Aura helps lock it down. Aura monitors the dark web, blocks data brokers from selling your information. Includes a VPN for private browsing and a password manager to secure your accounts before criminals break in. For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and start protecting, protecting yourself and your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [15:49]
Thomas Hill
You know, when, when Killian gets the ball in areas that he likes to get the ball, he's going to be dangerous. Right foot, left foot. You saw the different kinds of goals today. It's, it's incredible really, what he's done in his career.
- [15:59]
Ayo Akimwale
That was Jude Bellingham reflecting on the brilliance of Kylian Mbappe with TNT Sports Post Match. Now joining us to talk about the Frenchman, have our French football writer, Tom Williams. Tom, great to have you with us. Look, on Tuesday you published a piece focusing on Mbappe speed and you described it as. Speed has been part of Mbappe's footballing armory ever since his very first steps in the game. But how he has used it and how it has been utilized by his various coaches has been a process of constant evolution. Yeah, talk to us about that. How has his speed evolved from Monaco to PSG and to now Madrid and we saw him score a hat trick last night.
- [16:42]
Tom Williams
Yeah, I mean he's kind of come full circle in a way in that the piece looks mainly at how the different clubs that he's played for have, have used him and, and sought to utilize that remarkable pace that he has, which he's always had and which has always been one of his main weapons as a, as a footballer. We go back to his breakthrough season at Monaco 2016 and he generally played in a 4, 4, 2 alongside Radamel Falcao. The first version of Mbappe World ever saw, or certainly in club football was as a centre forward. But then he goes to psg, finds himself playing on the right initially to accommodate Neymar on the left and Edinson Cavani through the middle. And a similar thing happens with France and at the 2018 World cup, which is, you know, obviously the moment when he, he really sort of confirms his reputation as the most exciting young footballer on the planet. He's again playing on the right hand side and what happens over the course of his time at PSG is that as he gets older and his influence within the club and in the changing room grows, he begins to realize that actually he quite like to play on the left hand side. And so that's the story of what happens to, to MBappe@PSG that, you know, the season goes, the seasons go on and, you know, some coaches tried to play him at center forward. Thomas Tkul had this idea that it was possible to fit all the kind of superstars in the same starting 11. So you had Mbappe and Icardi up front with Neymar and Di Maria on the wings, and sometimes it worked and then sometimes it was a disaster. But all the while Mbappe is kind of shifting across the pitch to the left. And like lots of players with his physical profile, you can understand why he's super quick. He's right footed, play on the left, cut inside, Terry Henry style, finish, and, you know, away you go. But one of the things that happened at PSG was that he kept being asked to play at center forward and to begin with, he didn't like it very much. You go back to the, the 20, 22, 23 season under Christophe Galtier and he's complaining about being asked to play as unpivoted, being asked to play as a target man, as he said. I mean, he was never played as a target man, but, you know, you had to fear him and Neymar and Messi into the team somehow. Mbappe is obviously going to be the guy who plays through the middle. At that time he talked about how much he loved playing for France because he had freedom, he was out on the wing, it was all, you know, really nice and smooth and at psg I have to start play there with my batter, goal, etc, etc. But it was obvious when he went to Real Madrid last summer that he was going to have to play through the middle because where else do you put him? And I think that was one of the factors behind the fact that it took him a little bit of time to find his feet, learning to play alongside Vinicius Jr, who's obviously got a very strong claim to that left flank role. And I think what we've seen in the last few weeks is a number of different factors. It's Mbappe being fully fit because I don't think he was necessarily at times last season. He's settled in and he's got to grips with his role in the team. And I think what we saw against Manchester City was him realising actually, actually how Much fun you can have as a centre forward, but also how much freedom it gives him. I think he tended to think of the center forward role as being a bit of a burden, playing with your back to goal, having to facilitate what your teammates are doing. Whereas we saw against City, first goal, run down the inside right channel to a ball over the top. Second goal, he's out on the left and the ball is worked across to him. Third goal, he pops up on the right, cuts inside, scores with his left foot. So I think that's been part of the kind of process for him at Madrid, realizing that actually centre forward need not be this kind of constraining responsibility. And actually, you know, as long as the system behind him is, you know, sort of intelligently structured, he can, you know, he can still play with quite a significant degree of freedom.
- [20:26]
Ayo Akimwale
Thomas, you know, we talk about how he's adapted his game there. You know, we saw last night, in the manner of his goals, how Mbappe is utilizing his speed and also how he's evolving into a center forward with Madrid. How much credit do we have to give Carlo Ancelotti as well and Guillermo? I'll come to you about this as well in terms of allowing him have that freedom, because as. As Tom's just said, maybe in the past he'd seen it as a bit of a burden.
- [20:50]
Thomas Hill
Yeah, it's been. It's been tricky, hasn't it? I mean, with those four forwards as well, maybe we expected them to be this instant GalacticOS 2.0, which clearly was. Was hard to expect because you've got a lot of great players there. Rodrigo is perhaps the one that sometimes gets left out. And. And, you know, he's. He's shown brilliant form this season as well. We all knew the debate was going to be whether he and Vinicius could play in the same team off the left. But as. As Tom brilliantly pointed out there, the manner of those go shows how Mbappe was everywhere on the pitch and he's enjoying that freedom. I think probably credit does have to go to Carlo Ancelotti for finding that space for him, but also to Mbappe from a mental perspective. I think Guillermo was mentioning the low of that game in Bilbao against Athletic Club where he misses that penalty. And he himself says he's kind of reached rock bottom. And I think since then he's just shown his confidence, he's shown his leadership, he's really stepped up, and that's what's been most impressive for me, because I think it's easy to arrive at the Benobos, even as a star signing and wilter way, you know, thinking recently, even about hazard, clearly that was injury problems as well. But Mbappe's kind of, yeah, risen above the talk about him and, yeah, now seems to be in totally his best form since he arrived.
- [22:05]
Ayo Akimwale
Yeah, Guillermo Ancelotti has been really interesting and it was a problem. And it's a good problem to have, you know, Benicius Bellinger, Rodrigo Mbappe to try and figure out what that jigsaw puzzle looks like. But there's a really interesting piece by Charlotte Harper, who recently spoke to Rafael Varane and spoke about freedom that Real Madrid players have and also the responsibilities placed on individuals within the team to get the job done. Can you give us a sense of how Real Madrid work with that? You know, it's a big pressure to wear that Real Madrid shirt, but to also perform, there must be an. An environment they're creating there to help people to perform at their best.
- [22:42]
Guillermo Rai
Yeah. It's curious because before his arrival, before Mbappe's arrival, the biggest concern, the Real Madrid coaching staff, it was based on the lack of defense intensity from Mbappe because they had the metrics from Kylian. They knew that at psg he wasn't really defending, like he was below any standard, like proper standard, they told me. And one of their goals during this adaptation was to try to make Kylian understand that he has to defend. Even that he's like the main goal scorer, even that he's like the referencing attack. He had to be part of the collective, be more intense. And I think it was part of his adaptation. But it has been all natural, like, it hasn't been something that I think Ancelotti's staff has always insisted and they have always believed that it was all part of a process. They trust the process and they knew that with some continuity with the trainings, with the rest of the stars, Mbappe will understand that he has to do that, and it was his duty. Yesterday at the Mixon, he was asked about this. Look, Ancelotti has made a point here. Did you understand the point? And he said, look, we all know what we have to do to win the games. Not only me, beneath you, the rest of the stars. I think now, I think from the first leg at the Tijeti Stadium, we all have seen both Vinicius and Mbappe have behaved differently in defense. And I think that they are really involved. And that's why I think all things are working out. Because obviously, Mbappe Vinicius will score a lot of goals. There is no need to doubt them. Ancelotti knew that with freedom they will score goals. But I think that the work of Bol is what they improved most and is what made them like real characters inside the wrestling room and really praised by his teammates.
- [24:40]
Ayo Akimwale
Okay, yeah, lovely, Tom. Let's talk about his technique because Dr. David Lunn, a senior lecturer in sport and exercise biomechanics at Leeds Beckett University, quoted talking about how Mbappe creates longer strides when sprinting. He says he achieves this through a claw like action characterized by strong hip extensions that propels him forwards, which is particularly crucial during the acceleration phase of sprinting. Now, is this something genetic or something that has been trained into him?
- [25:13]
Tom Williams
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it is just a natural thing. I think a lot of it is genetic. I mean, you look back at footage of Mbappe as a, as a youngster when he was playing as Bondi, his local club, club, when he's playing at Claire Fontaine and he's already, he, you know, it's the same Mbappe that we see today, just, you know, smaller and, and skinnier. But I'm not sure how much specific sprint work he's done over the course of his career. But I, yeah, I'm sure that he has made advances in terms of the, the way that he runs. I'm sure the coaches that he's worked with have, have helped him with that. But I mean, coaches I spoke to for the piece said, well, you know, you can't really teach a fast player how to run quickly, but, you know, yeah, this analysis that Dr. David Lund did for the Athletic was really interesting. And, you know, he looked at clips of Mbappe from different stages of his career. And one thing that he flagged was that if you watch Mbappe in a foot race with a defender, which is something you know, we see quite frequently, very often Mbappe and the defender will make exactly the same number of strides in the same number of time, but Mbappe will leave the defender for dead. And it's because he has a stronger, he has a longer stride lane. That's one of the reasons that he is so quick. You know, it's sort of a technical feature of his running style and just his morphology, the way that he sort of, you know, angles his body as he's, as he's running. These are all things that, you know, that give him that extraordinary speed.
- [26:38]
Ayo Akimwale
You've watched him, obviously, at psg, and I was just thinking about the hat trick last night against Manchester City, especially for a player who had a bit of A rocky start. You know, you got a sense that, yeah, that Madrid shirt was weighing heavy. It's a transfer that we've been waiting for years to happen. But a hat trick in the Champions League, that is why you signed for Madrid. That is why you want to make that move, to hopefully one day lift that Cup.
- [27:00]
Tom Williams
Oh, completely. I mean, watching the game last night, I found myself thinking back to the 20, 21, 22 season when Madrid knocked PSG out in the last 16 and humiliated PSG in the last 16. You know, PSG are 2 nil up going into the last half an hour of the second leg at the Bernabeu, and Karin Benzema scores a hat trick and PSG collapse, as, you know, have tended to do in the Champions League in. In recent years. And I remember, you know, watching Mbappe at the final whistle. I think he scored in both legs. He'd kind of done his bit, kind of looking around at the stands, and at this point, he's already said no to Madrid once. We know that, you know, there is this relationship already between him and this club. And that was, you know, a very painful demonstration to him of. Of what. What clubs like Real Madrid are capable of doing in the Champions League, what Real Madrid specifically are capable of doing in the Champions League. And this glass ceiling that PSG are just kind of continually butting their heads against year after year after year. And then last night, he's the guy in the white shirt, he's the guy scoring the hat trick. He's the guy making the very expensively assembled collection of footballers that his team are playing look like a bunch of school kids. And that's what he went to Madrid 4. And it's, you know, been one of the most sort of curious kind of courtships in recent football history. We've all known that Mbappe was going to end up at Madrid one day. Madrid knew and Bape knew, everyone involved knew. And it's taken a little bit longer than perhaps we would have anticipated for it to happen, but now it has happened. And last night was exactly the kind of thing that he went to Madrid for, because that, you know, he's already won. He's already won the World Cup. He's already won everything he ever want to win in French football. He's already a superstar. The one thing that he hasn't yet done is win the Champions League. And he's gone to Madrid to be a superstar, to win not just one, but multiple Champions Leagues and to win the Ballon d'or. And I think, you know, modern footballers care more about the Ballon d'or than I think football fans and football journalists do. But it is nevertheless a really big, you know, motivating factor. And I think scoring a hat trick and such a brilliant hat trick in such a big game is the kind of thing that is going to move him very squarely into Ballon d'or contention.
- [29:22]
Ayo Akimwale
Fascinating. Well, Tom, thank you so much for joining us. I do implore you all to go read his piece with Mark Carey as well, actually, on the intimate relationship with speed. That's so good. Cheers, Tom.
- [29:33]
Tom Williams
My pleasure. Thanks very much, guys.
- [29:37]
Ayo Akimwale
Well, next we'll assess Real Madrid's chances of once again going all the way in the Champions League.
- [29:45]
Tom Williams
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast podcast with IO Akamolere.
- [29:51]
Host 1
What's your go to drink before a flight? A West Coast IPA or Manhattan? Find the detail that moves you with local beer and craft cocktails at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club. Learn more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JPMorgan Chase bank and a member FDIC.
- [30:05]
Tom Williams
Subject to credit approval.
- [30:06]
Sponsor 1
This podcast is brought to you by Aura. Imagine waking up to find your bank account drained, bills for loans you never took out, a warrant for your arrest. All because someone stole your identity. Hackers aren't waiting. Why are you? That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Your personal data is a goldmine for hackers and Aura helps lock it down. Aura monitors the dark web, blocks data brokers from selling your information. Includes a VPN for private browsing and a password manager to secure your accounts before criminals break in. For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and start protecting yourself and your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [31:02]
Tom Williams
This is the Athletic FC podcast with.
- [31:04]
Ayo Akimwale
IO A Nacho raises the Champions League.
- [31:07]
Thomas Hill
Trophy in the air. The kings are back on the throne.
- [31:11]
Ayo Akimwale
The confetti reigns at Wembley Stadium. Real Madrid Champions League winners Real Madrid European champions Last season Real Madrid lifted their 15th European Cup. Guillermo Is there now an expectation as we've seen, or is there an element of inevitability that you know, in a few months time Real Madrid would potentially make the final. And we probably know what happens when Madrid get to finals in the Champions League. They will lift that cup.
- [31:40]
Guillermo Rai
Well, there were a couple of questions about that at the Carlo Ancelotti's press conference just after the Man City game. And he didn't deny it because he talked about talent. I think they know that nowadays Real Madrid have an offensive talent that is, I think, above everyone in the Champions League. And also because in the last three seasons, if Real Madrid or Man City have won this tie, they have won the Champions League. So it has been almost like something third term. Right. It's still early. We are only on the last 16 of the champions League, so it's still difficult, hard to predict. But obviously after yesterday's performance, Real Madrid saw that there is some favoritism and they don't really rule out this type of feeling. They can handle it and I think they shown that they were happy with this status. Right?
- [32:39]
Ayo Akimwale
Yeah. Thomas, it's the age old question, isn't it? You know, what makes Real Madrid so good at the Champions League? Every time they recruit, I almost wonder whether you just walk through that front door and before you even say any word, they just say, champions League. Get it in your head because you don't join this club if you don't want to play in the biggest, you know, European club competition there is and want to win it.
- [33:03]
Thomas Hill
Yeah, 100%. And it's so hard IO to actually put your finger on why Madrid have this aura about them in the Champions League. I think just the simple fact of, of having that record number of titles clearly influences it. You know, there's a bit of ego about it as well. I think this is really the competition by which Madrid measure themselves by. They've suffered some pretty damaging defeats to Barcelona this season in La Liga and the Spanish super cup. And yet ask any Madrid fan, and I'm sure they'd happily take those if it means they're going to lift a 16th title at the Allianz in, in May. So it's really interesting, I was drawn to quote quote that Mark Kerry used in his piece about how clutch Bellingham has become from, from his first season at the club where he talked about just being around those kind of players every day and, and that mentality rubbing off on you. And I think it probably does come down to mentality because you look at those Madrid teams that won all those Champions leagues, that won even last season, and you wouldn't have said, you wouldn't have said they were particularly brilliant tactically, you wouldn't have said they were revolutionary tactically, but they just had that ability to, to stick in games. If you think about the, the City quarter final that they won on on, on penalties last season. There is just that. It's that elite mentality of the belief that they can just get through anything. And I think even if some of those players from last season have now left, I think Nacho and Kroos have both actually proven to be pretty, pretty big losses, Kroos especially. They just seem to have rubbed off on the other players. There's actually some pretty young players there who now have that Champions League expertise with them. And I think that will have certainly helped Mbappe as well. Even if he has already won the World cup and already has plenty of Champions League experience himself from psg. To look around him and see these teammates who have been through it all before and just know the drill. And I guess the final thing I'd say on that IO is Ancelotti, after that first leg in Manchester says that this is where our season starts for real. Which is just a crazy thing to say at any other club. Imagine that halfway through the season saying, yeah, this is where it really starts. But it's kind of an ability to flick the switch, switch at the crucial part of the season because this is their favorite competition.
- [35:07]
Ayo Akimwale
Yeah. You know, Raphael Varane talks about the pressure that you face at Real Madrid. Thomas in Charlotte's piece, and there's a really interesting quote. He basically said, you know, it's the club where there's undoubtedly the most pressure, but whether it's the coach or the way the club handles difficult situations, it's really a protection against that pressure. Is there a bubble they create to help people succeed? I asked Guillermo this earlier because I wonder, obviously you don't. They're not recruiting unless you're one of the best players in the world. But you still need an environment where you can actually achieve what is required of you.
- [35:42]
Thomas Hill
Yeah, I think Guillermo will obviously know this better than me, but it's true that it's quite a shut off club. I do think they protect the players and that probably does protect the players from the outside noise. You think about Mbappe's early struggles, maybe another club, he would have kind of succumbed to that and would have had his head down because you read those headlines, you're suddenly in the press more. But Madrid do tend to protect their players from that, it seems, and that probably is a large part of their success.
- [36:09]
Ayo Akimwale
Yeah, Calera, I think about that. You know, if you think about how Real Madrid even look at the, I say like a siege mentality that was created when Benicius did win the Ballon d'or, Real Madrid put their players first, they really put them on a pedestal and they try to protect them, don't they?
- [36:25]
Guillermo Rai
Yeah. I mean, it's a pretty protective club, I will say. But also because they have a lot of experience and they know how to handle the stars. They know that they have to have a bit of control. If not, it's impossible to make things work. We were talking just a few minutes ago about Mbappe. I think it's the perfect example to show that at the club they know how to run things and they weren't doubts in reality, they just let Mbappe to adapt. There was obviously pressure from the fan base at the Bernabeu. We had whistles, we heard whistles. In the last two, three seasons, I haven't remembered or I haven't heard whistles at the stadium, but there was pressure from outside. But inside the club, I think that they understood that they had to make things easier for Mbappe, for their stars. And because of that, because of this also, I will say confidence they are giving to them. Things started to work out in the end. Yeah.
- [37:26]
Ayo Akimwale
Yeah, for sure. Right, let's look to the latter stages of the Champions League. Guillermo, there's a Madrid derby, maybe, or meeting former player Xabi Alonso, who's been heavily linked to maybe replace Carlo Ancelotti. You know, this could be a really tough test now, actually, because, you know, Atletico are looking very good this season, actually, and they've got a really top team. But also, I mean, Leverkusen, you can't write them off.
- [37:54]
Guillermo Rai
Yeah. I wouldn't dare to contradict what Mbappe said last night, because he was talking about how many trips. Trips they have done already, that they are tired of traveling and because of that, they will prefer Lady Comadi also because of the rivalry, of course. But I will say that from my point of view, it will be better for Real to face Bayer Leverkusen. For journalists, also, it will be better because we will have a lot of stuff to write about the links between Real and Xabi Alonso, obviously, the constant links. But I will say that what Atletico have shown from all the Diego Simeone, Diego Pablo Simeone's era is that it's really, really tough to beat them. I think Real Madrid have faced them like four times during this era, during the Simeones era, and they have won at Champions League. But every time it has been so difficult that I'm afraid that it will be tougher than Leverkusen. Even that Leverkusen, of course, is the last German champions.
- [38:58]
Ayo Akimwale
Yeah. Thomas, as a journalist, which would you prefer to write about Real Madrid versus Atletico or Real Madri by Leverkusen with Xabi Alonso sitting there just for all the speculation.
- [39:08]
Thomas Hill
Yeah, there's definitely intrigue in both, isn't there? I think it would have to be the Atletico tie because there's just so much history there between them. Atletico, for all that they've progressed under Simeone and enjoyed this golden era under him. The memory of those two Champions League finals lost to Madrid I think really hurts them and a chance to get revenge on them, particularly in a season where they spent so much in the transfer market and made huge strides on the pitch. I mean, just a couple of weeks ago they drew one all with Madrid and there really wasn't much to separate them. I think that would be a really fascinating tie, particularly, you know, over two legs at the Bernabeu and then their Metropolitano stadium. So I'm hoping for that from a from a Spanish football perspective as well.
- [39:47]
Ayo Akimwale
Okay, well, let's wrap it there. Really appreciate your time, gentlemen, Guillermo and also Thomas and also Tom who joined us earlier. Thank you so much for listening. Matt Davies Adams will be with you tomorrow for the preview. Looking ahead to Liverpool visit to Manchester City in the Premier League on Sunday. Thanks for listening.
- [40:04]
Tom Williams
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beale. The executive producer was Aidy Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [40:25]
Ayo Akimwale
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [40:34]
Host 1
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- [40:49]
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- [41:43]
Guillermo Rai
Acast powers the world's best podcasts.
- [41:46]
Host 1
Here's a show that we recommend. Hey folks, it's Marc Maron from WTF. It's been more than 15 years now, and I'm still talking to all kinds of people in my garage every week. Sometimes it's Bill Burr, sometimes it's Ariana Grande.
- [42:03]
Thomas Hill
She just looks at me because she's.
- [42:05]
Ayo Akimwale
Always going like, dad, it's not that big a deal. Yeah, I go, sorry, I lost my temper.
- [42:09]
Guillermo Rai
I go, I still love you.
- [42:11]
Ayo Akimwale
You know, Daddy has issues.
- [42:12]
Sponsor 1
Are you afraid of it?
- [42:14]
Tom Williams
Of death?
- [42:14]
Host 1
Well, I don't know. I think about it all the time.
- [42:16]
Guillermo Rai
How are we here already?
- [42:18]
Host 1
Listen to WTF with Marc Maron twice a week on your favorite podcast app. Or get more WTF with a WTF Plus subscribe description just go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF Plus.
- [42:33]
Guillermo Rai
Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.
- [42:40]
Ayo Akimwale
Com.