Tom Williams (2:02)

It's not. It hasn't been for a little while. And I think the expectation in recent weeks has been that at some point things would click into place and they would become the PSG that we got used to seeing last season, the one that laid waste to the European elite and finally claimed the Champions League finally scaled the Everest that the club had been trying to conquer ever since the arrival of their Qatari owners in 2011. And as the weeks have gone on, you've started to think maybe that just isn't going to happen. Like I personally have been sitting down to watch PSG and thinking, surely at some point we're going to see some sign that this team is getting close to what it was last season. And if anything, it's been the opposite. The more that time has gone on, the further away from that level they have got. And so now you find them approaching this game against Chelsea and this tie against Chelsea with a sense that if they are going to go through, it's not going to be playing the sort of swashbuckling, all action football that became their trademark last season. They are just going to have to grind out results in the hope that that form still returns. The fact it's the same coach, the fact that it's the same players, the fact it's the same general idea makes you think that things could click at some point. But recent evidence does not suggest that that is about to happen anytime soon.

Ayo Akimolere (3:29)

How are the French media treating this?

Tom Williams (3:31)

It was interesting, the coverage of the defeat at Monaco, the defeat against Monaco rather on Friday that you mentioned. L' Equipe's report said, you know, PSG are on the brink of crisis and it is time that we abandon this idea that they are the same team they were last season. They, they are showing week after week that they are not capable of producing that performance level. And you know, we saw that towards the end of the league phase. I mean, the best football that PSG have produced this season has tended to be in the Champions League in the early weeks of the competition. They were fantastic in their opening game against Atalanta. Four nil winners, one away at Barcelona with a second choice attack, put seven goals passed by A Leverkusen and were really flying. And then they finished the group phase by taking two points from a possible nine, drawing away atik Bilbao losing away at Sporting and then drawing it home to Newcastle. And what was basically, you know, what felt like a must win game if they were to avoid going into the playoff round and they weren't capable of raising their level. And so I think the feeling in France is that, you know, we need to perhaps come to terms with the fact that PSG are just at a different phase in their revolution now. They're not kind of on the launch pad, they are just sort of muddling around desperately trying to find some semblance of form. To cling to. And so I think most people would still have them as favorites going into this tie against Chelsea as the defending champions with all the fantastic players and the fantastic coach they've got. But there's very little certainty at PSG at the moment.

Ayo Akimolere (5:04)

Yeah, Carl. Not many teams hold on to the Champions League, other than the name Real Madrid, of course. And you remember the dismantling of Inter Milan in the Champions League final. Desiree, due to Dembele doing what they do best, you know, academy kids from PSG scoring late winners as well. This is a very different outfit. I rewatched the spurs match just before this podcast, PSG beat Spurs, but they kind of made a meal of it. Are you surprised to see the PSG from last season not really replicating the same kind of swashbuckling kind of football in the Champions League this season?

Karl Anker (5:39)

A little bit. A little bit. In January, I messaged my friend Jerry Tackle, who works with plp. I was simply watching a PSG game going, what's going on? And Jerry, who supports psg, offered his points to me. And one thing he made very clear to me was something I think quite a few of us overlook, the Club World cup in that the PSG team that we saw defeat, not even defeat, dismantle Inter Milan in that Champions League final. And the one thing that sticks out to me about that Champions League final, yes, the goals, yes, the performance. Yes, Desiree Dure. But also the referee BMW exactly on 90 minutes. He was like, this is done.

Ayo Akimolere (6:16)

It's like a boxing match. Like, stop it, stop it.

Karl Anker (6:19)

Done unplugging things, just wrapping it up. This wire on the stereo like, this is over. We don't need to do this anymore. And then it happened again in two or three other matches in PSG early in this season, but also they had to go to the United States. They had to play in the Club World Cup. They went to the final. They lost to Enzo Marescu's Chelsea in the final. And one thing that Chelsea fans like to remind people was the gap between the Club World cup final and Chelsea's first match of the Premier League season was something around 35 days, a very, very, very short turnaround. Now, Chelsea can, to a degree, stomach that quick turnaround a bit more because they have a very, very deep squad. They have a large amount of players, and I'm not going to make a joke about that. Chelsea have a big squad, so they can rotate a little bit more than a PSG team that for managerial reasons, Luis Enrique doesn't like working with a particularly large squad because he wants to have more contact time with a lot of his players. So this PSG team came into the new season quite tired. They had to play the super cup game as well. So another short turnaround. And also there's been two or three against Tom Hotspur, which, I mean, they were. Tottenham went two up and you're thinking this is Thomas Frank might get a trophy in his first season and then they go to penalties, etc. Etc. Etc. But then it's. While it's the same players, there are two or three changes. I think moving on Donna Ruma and bringing on Lucas Chevalier is a big change because even, yes, PSG were fantastic in that Champions League run, but there were two or three matches and two or three opportunities where I want to say Liverpool had a chance, I want to say Arsenal had a chance. Donnarumma had to do big things. I keep saying it. Donna Rummer, when he's playing at English club is his eyeballs get big, he just finds an extra 5% and just break your heart. And he's been doing it since the Euro 2020 final where Chevalier and Tom, you can correct me here if I get any player's pronunciation wrong. My French is quite bad.

Tom Williams (8:03)

Absolutely spotless so far, mate.

Karl Anker (8:05)

Thank you very much. Chevalier was picked because he's good with his feet. I did a piece ahead of new season about Manchester United and about the goalkeepers Manchester United might need to replace Andre Onana. And in the piece I wrote about Chevalier, I said, this is a Pep Guardiola goalkeeper hiding in plain sight. He's not necessarily someone who can make himself super big and get you something out of nothing to make a huge save. And therefore the team, I think PSG defensively has probably lost 5% just by that goalkeeper swap. I think Marquinhos, you know, Father Time has caught up with Marquinhos as well. He's not the same center back that he used to be, so that's another 5, 10% off their defense too. Hakimi has been injured and he's gone to afcon and he's just not been the same player that he was last season. This is a player that for the last three or four years was regarded as the best right back in the world. And now there's a conversation as to other right backs being in there. So three members of that back five are not the players they used to be. Then you add then the injuries to Dembele. Desiree Dua has perhaps been on and off. So you've got a slightly Smaller squad that played a ridiculous amount of football games last season, including the club World Cup. They all come back for a brand new season. Two or three changes at the back, two or three players who are a bit older and or absent and or injured. And all of a sudden the team that many, many people were lauding as the one great team in European football all of a sudden is good ish. And I think this is something that might continue to happen in this new expanded format of the Champions League where there's parity isn't quite the word. There are fewer times where I'm going, that is a great team. And more times I'm going, that is a good team with a goal scorer. You might go supernova for 10 minutes.

Tom Williams (9:44)

I think what happened last season for PSG is that all the planets aligned. Luis Enrique found this, this way of playing and he didn't come across it prior to the start of the season. We go back to the first part of last season. PSG were very underwhelming. They would very frequently dominate matches, but not score the goals that their domination of both possession and territory suggested they should. And then he starts playing with Usman Dembele as a false 9. Halfway through December, things fall into place in the second half of that season. No one got injured. He was able to rotate players freely because in Ligue 1 there was no real challenge. They had a big. They went into the year 2025 with a 10 point lead at the top of the table. And he was able to work with, as Carl says, a very small squad and even within that 12 or 13 key players. By the time we got to the knockout phase of the Champions League last season, he, you knew pretty much exactly which team was going to start. The only query between games was, is it going to be Desiree Duet or is it going to be Brady Bacola? Every other player was guaranteed to start. And PSG produced spectacular but quite complicated football. A very intense, very minutely coordinated press without the ball that involves every single player on the pitch. Positional interchanging that involves every player on the pitch. And because he was able to rest players in domestic games and because none of his players were injured, it meant that he could work with that very small group of players week after week after week and ended up producing this, you know, extremely well drilled kind of football. And this season, because of the injuries, but also because of the domestic challenge from lance and Ligue 1, which I know we're going to, we're going to go on to talk about, he can't rotate the players aren't fit. And so everything that was working last season is no longer working this season. And that very, that very finely calibrated style of football is just currently beyond them. And I think, you know, those are all key factors in explaining why that is.

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This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Agimolera.

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Okay.

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Ayo Akimolere (13:30)

Well, let's move on to the Chelsea match on Wednesday because we did mention they'll be playing Chelsea in the Champions League. Liam Rosenhea has a decent record versus psg, as we know that from his time at Strasbourg. So one win, one draw and one loss. Now, how have previous meetings gone with these two sides? Because I'd like to think Rocinha is coming into this, dare I say it, with a much bigger squad, Carl, and feeling possibly a little bit more confident than he probably would under Strasbourg in Ligue 1.

Karl Anker (14:01)

Yes, but also we both spoke to him and the way he explained about taking on psg, he was like, well, go for it.

Liam Rosenhea (14:09)

Yeah, I think in football it's one of Those sports where you can play really, really well and you don't always win and you can play really well and you can lose. The way I gauge my team is always on performance. And in terms of our performance and our bravery and the players engagement, enthusiasm and energy, as a manager, you can't ask for any more. So even if we'd lost the game, the way that the players conducted themselves in the way that they wanted us to play, I was so proud. It was one of the proudest moments of my career. But hopefully there's many more to come as well.

Karl Anker (14:39)

These are the games you want to manage. These are the games you want to be a football player. And that was Liam's entire approach. He talked about his history playing for Hull, playing for Brighton and playing for some of the smaller teams that when they finally got to go to Anfield or when they got to Old Trafford. And he explained his own frustration about playing the bigger teams and not really touching the ball because everyone sort of the game plan was about sitting in deep and I was like, oh, well, this is the pinnacle of my career. And I've just stood there looking up, watching balls just go over my head. Because we're playing long ball, I believe. When we spoke to him, Strasbourg had just drawn 3, 3 with PSG after being two goals up at the start. And Strasbourg pressed very, very high. Which you can do that when you're the Strasbourg coach because you've got very, very young players. But also I think you can do that more against this PSG team because as Thomas explained, the very, very precise footballing machine has been disrupted in 203 phases. Fabian Russ does not look the Same player in 2026 that he was in 2025. There's been an injury to Joao Neves, who, I mean, that kid is scary good.

Ayo Akimolere (15:41)

He's special, isn't he?

Karl Anker (15:42)

If Pep Guardiola signs Joao Neves, we're all in trouble. And I mean that as the greatest compliment. He's 5 foot 9 ish, and his ability to predict where the ball is going to land when it's been up in the air is the only player I've seen with that sort of size who's that good in predicting the flight of a ball. Is n' Golo Kante like, he's brilliant. Vitinia, you. Sometimes Vitinia is a 9 out of 10, sometimes he's a 7 out of 10. But Vitinia can't do everything. He's exceptional in the first phase. Fabian Re takes Fabian Rhys and Yarnus takes Things in the second phase, and this is it, in that PSG have a lot of good players, but they may turn into great players because they're weaknesses are hidden very often by the other football players next to him. It's very good squad building when everyone is fit and everyone's fit and everyone's fit and everyone's doing well when they're not. That's the interesting bit. And the fact that Ligue 1 is a little bit more competitive now, and the fact that you've got a manager, Liam Rosenho, who has already. I'm not going to say profit to profit maybe isn't the word when it's a 3, 3 draw, but has dented PSG in the past.

Ayo Akimolere (16:43)

I think there's a psychological edge here.

Karl Anker (16:45)

I think there's not going to be no fear when he's going through his training routines and when he's doing things on the whiteboard. I also think increasingly now, when we are watching Champions League football or Europa League football, the physicality of the Premier League now is coming to the fore in that. I mean, Tottenham Hotspur are in a relegation battle and yet they will finish the league phase fourth. Because even the smaller fishes in the Premier League are able to hurt and run with an intensity that a lot of teams outside of, in Europe's other top five leagues cannot quite manage. So if you're a Chelsea player, like if you're Moises Caicedo, right, go at them. And I'm sure, and I'm sure one of the Chelsea coaches is telling him words to that effect. Well, far more complicated instructions and just go at them. But, yeah, I'm really, really interested to see how Premier League combativeness works against a PSG team that is. That can be very, very good at using possession as a defensive tool as well.

Ayo Akimolere (17:40)

Yeah. And Carl talks about going at them at your own peril, because we've also seen PSG this season absolutely obliterate teams. You look at the Marseille 5 nil in Lig 1. You look at that Lille game with Dembele doing what Dembele does, you know, that chip Dembele.

Karl Anker (17:57)

Oh, chimneys, long way, pulls back Dembele, what a goal.

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Ayo Akimolere (18:04)

That graceful drag back and then chip over the keeper. You know, this is still a stacked team. You spoke about Vitinia there. You know, the Tottenham game, Vitinia's first career hat trick against Tottenham, rescuing his team from a possible defeat. You know, against Tottenham Hotspur. This is still a stacked team.

Tom Williams (18:20)

Let's not forget, Tom, it's the exact same team as last season on paper, with the one difference being in goal, as Carl said. And you know, clearly replacing last season's outstanding goalkeeper, Gianluigi Donnarumma, the current holder of the Yashin Trophy, with Luca Chevalier, who then lost his place to his Russian understudy, Matt V Safenov, who's basically a goalkeeper with a similar profile to Donna Rummer, but multiple levels below him, has not been a success. But it is all the same players and we have seen glimpses, and that's one of the great frustrations with psg, is that you do see these glimpses. And Dembele's form since the start of the year has been one of the few bright spots because he has had multiple injury problems. It was a hamstring problem in the first part of the season. Since Christmas, it's been calf issues. It was the calf issue that forced him off in the first leg of the playoff round tie against Monaco. He came on for the last half an hour against Monaco on Friday, looked relatively sharp, but there again, you know, is it, would it be a risk to start him given that there is now that vulnerability? But he has shown with that, you know, that fantastic brace against Lille, that impossibly delicate left foot chip, the brace that he scored against Marseille as well. And they need that because you watch PSG attack when he isn't on the pitch and they, they look to him even when he isn't there. They're used to him dropping in and dragging center backs around and creating space for the wide players to attack and he central midfielders to attack, you know, and that doesn't happen when he's not there. It's been interesting that in the last few weeks Luis Enrique has been trying Bradley Bar as a, as a false 9. Very much not his natural position, but he scored 3 and 3 in Ligue and has shown some signs that he, you know, he, he might occasionally be a serviceable understudy to Dembele in that role. But yeah, it's, it's not quite the same thing. So, yeah, talent wise, you know, there is, there can be no disputing how good this PSG team is. But I think the fundamental issue is that physically they, you know, they are not capable or they do not seem capable of playing the kind of, you know, very high octane smothering football that they did last season. And that's with and without the ball. And as you say, you know, when you get a team that attacks them as naively as Marseille did, that team can find themselves in big trouble. But if you get a team who do it a bit more intelligently. And Monaco have done that very well in recent weeks. Obviously the win in Liga, but even in the two matches of the playoff round, when both teams had 11 men on the pitch, Monaco actually won that tie. Which shows how much PSG struggled to break them down and how Monaco, you know, were able to exploit some of the weaknesses in PSG's play when they did have the ball. So, yeah, you know, on paper there can be no contesting the talent. But the sad reality for PSG is that it's been several weeks now where what you see on paper hasn't quite translated to what you see out on the pitch.

Ayo Akimolere (21:32)

Let's move our attention to Ligue 1 briefly, Carl. I think since 2012, PSG have pretty much won Ligue 1. I think only Lille and also Monaco. Any other teams that have won it. I mean, Carlo Ancelotti finally bringing Ligue 1 back to PSG under his reign. I mean, for the product and I know PSG could still go ahead and win this. For the product though, if Lons win this, this is great. This is wonderful. The mighty PSG can be toppled.

Karl Anker (22:03)

Yes, yes, look, German Renato Sanchez.

Ayo Akimolere (22:07)

Yes, Renato Sanchez.

Karl Anker (22:08)

Yeah, Renato Sanchez. Player, young player of the tournament at Euro 2016 at Benfica, goes to Bayern Munich, gets loads of ranges at Bayern Munich, has an unsuccessful loan sport. Swansea ends up at Lille, is part of that Leo League own winning side and, and now every time someone goes, oh, Renato Sanchez didn't do much, won the French League title for someone that wasn't, that wasn't psg, he then eventually went to PSG and didn't quite work out and they went to Roma, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But I, I am now fast becoming of the opinion that if you can win the French League title for someone that isn't psg, that that is a heavier medal. So French football is in a really interesting position in that the broadcast deal, the most recent broadcast, I want to say the last two or three have been terrible and they have. The French League has been quite honest about how the recent deals have been terrible and trying to package up a new sort of subscription style package for anyone interested. And we've got the wonderful Alex Barker at the Athletic, who is a huge proponent and a huge fan of French football and he's constantly telling all of us about how cheap it is to watch all the French League games and how we all need to be doing this as well. So you've got that and increasingly for Leagues. If your broadcast deal is terrible, you're just going to suffer. You're going to find it really, really hard to get people to watch your games in addition to the matches they're already going to watch domestically. It's a lot harder to get hold of the flow and narratives of your, of your league outside of Champions League games. So, I mean, the majority of the time I'm watching PSG, I want to say 95% of the time I'm watching PSG, it is a Champions League match, so I'm only watching them X amount of times. And also there's a problem of the Premier League is just an all encompassing, devouring beast in that when Manchester United play Velon in the Europa League last season, I had the great joy of talking to a scout for a Premier League club and they were based in France and they put it, they explained it to me in that the French League makes good players all the time. The French League finds it increasingly hard to produce good teams because the moment two or three good players emerge at someone that isn't psg, a Premier League club goes, oh, thanks, mate, I love that. Boom, boom, boom, and you get cherry picked. So if there is ever a season where the stars align, where, where PSG is having a down period and another club is having a good period and perhaps it's they've got a good academy class or perhaps they've got a good coach or, or perhaps one of their strikers goes supernova and you can get a winning run. Absolutely fantastic. Good for the product because it gets more eyeballs on there. And if you've got now the French League is slightly improving their broadcast deals, it is now easier to tune in. I want to watch Monaco this season because they got Paul Pogba and Ansu Fati and two or three other players. And I went, well, I want to see how this works out. So I paid a sort of trial subscription fee and I've been watching Monaco games two or three times. Right.

Tom Williams (25:09)

Well, sadly, not much of Paul Pogba.

Karl Anker (25:11)

He's been injured again, unfortunately not. I've not been able to see much of Paul Pogba, but I think this is the thing now in that increasingly in the not if you're not the Premier League leagues are now having to think very, very smartly about how do we get the quote unquote, casual viewer or the I'm going to watch you once in a month viewer. And the French League have now got a streaming service, an online offering that makes it very, very straightforward. And if you can do that. That means in times like this, where there is a genuine competitor to psg, you can get more eyeballs onto your product and then hopefully those eyeballs can stick, providing those, you know, competitors can stay together. I remember speaking to Jose Fonte again after Leo won the league.

Ayo Akimolere (25:57)

He was at Lille.

Karl Anker (25:58)

Yeah, he was at Lille and he used to play for Southampton. So when I was a Southampton reporter, I had a conversation with him two or three times, and when he won the league, I sort of sent him a message after their victory thinking, well, you know, he's just won a league title, he's not going to want to respond to me. And he eventually did, and I was just chuffed a bit. And he explained what it meant to him to be. To be a French League champion. And, yeah, you can. You can really, really see how much it means to win a league title when you're not at psg. And also, quite frankly, if you're a manager at PSG and you don't win the league, I'm looking at you with sideways eyes going, you what, mate? So, like, Pochettino didn't win in his first season, Carlo Ancelotti did not win in his first season. And Tom, you can correct me here, I believe Ancelotti came in midway through and he swears he did.

Tom Williams (26:43)

Yeah, PSG had, like.

Karl Anker (26:45)

He came in at Christmas time and I'm pretty sure PSG had like a six plus points lead at the top and they didn't win it. So you do need a unique alchemy for PSG to not get it done, but when it does happen, it's absolutely worth watching every single week, or at least in highlight four.

Tom Williams (27:02)

I'm not sure if they were that far clear, but you're right, it was nevertheless a fairly enormous surprise, particularly given they lost the league to Montpellier.

Karl Anker (27:12)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom Williams (27:13)

I'm looking a piece about Montpellier that I read the other day and it

Karl Anker (27:16)

was led by Olivier Giroud.

Tom Williams (27:18)

Giroud, yeah, you know, and referred to in this piece that I read as, you know, France's Leicester City in terms of improbability of that title win.

Ayo Akimolere (27:28)

And talk to me about Lon's the possibility of them winning League R. Tom, I don't think they've won the top tier since the 90s, I imagine, like 1998. 98. I mean, come on. This would be amazing considering the riches that exist at PSG and the plethora of talent they have at their disposal.

Tom Williams (27:46)

There are so many levels to this. I could literally talk about about Lance for hours.

Ayo Akimolere (27:50)

Go on this is your time, Tom.

Tom Williams (27:52)

First of all, the fact that any club other than PSG might win Ligue 1 is remarkable. But the fact that it's Lance, this very traditional club from the north of France with this fantastic boxy English style stadium that has been sold out for something like 81 Ligue 1 home games in a row, this club that has had to sell so many of its best players in recent years. You go back to January last year and Abdou Kadir Kusanov going to Manchester City, Kevin Danso going to Tottenham. They lost their starting goalkeeper, Boris Sambo went to Rennes. At the same time, there's just been this constant churn. And then here we are this season with a new head coach in Pie Sage, who sacked Lyon and in a manner that a lot of people, both at Lyon and elsewhere felt was, was very unfair. And with this really interesting hodgepodge collection of players, you know, players whose careers were drifting, players who looked like they reached a dead end. You've just been picked up and put into this fantastically coached team, playing very uncomplicated, quite direct, but extremely effective football. Flying wing backs. Florian Tova, who came in from Udinese last summer, playing just off Oddson Edouard, whose career looked like it had completely come off the rails in, in England. And these players just kind of picked up seemingly from nowhere, who've now proven themselves as being among the very best players in Ligue 1. And it is a classic case of haves and have nots. They are. I mean, Lille winning The title in 2021 was remarkable and comparable to this. Monaco likewise, albeit Monaco have always had money behind them. But this is a proper underdog story. And so it's the haves and the have nots. And there was a feeling up until I say even last weekend that Lon's chance had probably been and gone in that prior to last weekend they were four points behind psg. They'd lost unexpectedly at home to Monaco, having been two nil up. They'd played well, but then drawn away at Hasborg and PSG had won. And you thought, okay, we know the drill. PSG just going to move through the gears. Lons are going to encounter turbulence and then this dream, sadly, will die. But then PSG lose at home to Monaco, Lans brush aside Mets, who are the bottom club in Ligue 1 and suddenly the title race is back on. And if you look at Lens run in, they've got nine fixtures remaining. Most of them are winnable. There are some key games. There's a trip to Lille in the Derby du Nord, which is always a game that matters a huge amount in that part of the world. Giroud there is there as well of course. And then the following weekend, the weekend of 12th and 13th of April, I think it is Lance at home to psg. I think the hope for everyone who follows French football is that they are still within touching distance at that point. Because if, if, you know, if Lance go into that game knowing that if they win they'll go top or they'll put distance between themselves and psg, then it will be, it will be fully on. And yeah, if anyone hasn't yet had a chance to watch LONS this season, I would strongly recommend it. It is the most fantastic feel good story. Stadium's always full, super noisy, super colorful. They play really exciting football. There are so many, you know, little subplots and storylines and, and hopefully, you know, for the good of, for the good of French football. It would be great if they can, you know, if they can push PSG all the way at the very least.

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Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere) (32:48)

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akimolere.

Ayo Akimolere (32:53)

All right, let's move on to the Champions League once more Carl, because this week Liverpool vs Galatasaray kicks off on Tuesday. You know a lot of pressure on this Game considering the league form of Liverpool. Big one for Arnas slot.

Karl Anker (33:08)

Absolutely big one. As we are now increasingly heading towards a summer of managerial merry go rounds. And Arnasot now not only needs to get some momentum together to make sure Liverpool qualify for next season's Champions League, but also needs to show some sort of convincing style of play, some convincing style of attack and open play to suggest that he should be the man next season. One thing that unfortunately, you know, an unfortunate unforeseen complication on the slot's Liverpool career is the fact that Xavi Alonso is available now. And I think we're all sort of like, oh hang on, wasn't you meant to be at Real Madrid for ages? So Xavier Alonso's left, but also Javier Alonso left for reasons that he can convincingly say it's not my fault. That's more to do with Real Madrid being Real Madrid. So big game for Liverpool. They played Galatasaray earlier in the league phase, I believe, where Victor Osman just gave him absolute hell because that's what Victor Oshman does. There's no harm, no foul. He's just one of the best strikers in the world. And then going to Galatasaray, never easy place to go. This is the quote unquote early Champions League game kickoff on it is tonight.

Ayo Akimolere (34:15)

Yeah, as we're recording.

Karl Anker (34:17)

Yeah, I don't know my days anymore. You can tell I'm a reporter for a club that's not in the Champions League anymore. So it's the quote unquote, just one

Ayo Akimolere (34:23)

game a week for you, Carl.

Karl Anker (34:24)

Sorry, it's the quote unquote early game and I'm interested to see if that's going to play into Liverpool's favor or not. In that playing at Galatasara, playing in Istanbul slightly earlier in the day. That doesn't quite play into the welcome to hell intimidating atmosphere. And indeed Liverpool are, well, they're acquainted with that sort of atmosphere too. So very, very interested in there. I think the fact that Andrew Robertson played on Friday against Wolverhampton Wanderers was interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if he played again or started again today. Just to give him that a little bit of veteran now and to keep two or three players online or like switched on for the first 20 minutes be really interesting today. I'm also going to be reading to see how Ryan Gravenberg plays there too because I think he's a supremely talented football player. He's just signed a brand new six year contract there, but he needs to be a little bit more defensively resilient. Particularly in these trickier circumstances, because if he vacates the space too much, there's going to be a very angry person flooding into the space and Liverpool could be vulnerable.

Ayo Akimolere (35:22)

We need to talk about Atletico Madrid versus Spurs. Atleti obviously doing what Atleti do in La Liga. But spurs are at a point where they are eyeing relegation, or at least that zone. Isn't that strange in terms of when we talk about the riches available to certain clubs and, you know, Premier League clubs in particular, you're looking at a team facing relegation and you're looking at a team in a decent position in La Liga.

Tom Williams (35:48)

Yeah, it's mad. And again, I think it speaks to, you know, the enormous firepower of the Premier League, that you could have all the Premier League clubs still in contention in the Champions League, and that includes one of the most feeble Tottenham Hotspur teams I think any of us can. Can remember seeing. I mean, yes, they, you know, they had a relatively clement draw in the league phase, but they nevertheless produce convincing performances. They. They beat decent teams and I think they qualified in fourth place, didn't they?

Ayo Akimolere (36:19)

Which is, I mean, didn't make the playoffs.

Tom Williams (36:21)

Absolutely remarkable. And I mean, they were able to successfully switch between domestic difficulties and continental assignments during the league phase. Are they still capable of doing that? Um, you know, and we saw how that group of players, albeit with a different coach, were able to compartmentalize what they were doing domestically and what they were doing very badly domestically last season and European objectives in the way that they, you know, slid down towards a finishing position of 17th in the premier League at the same time as they were grinding their way towards glory in the Europa League. Will they prove capable of doing the same thing again? I mean, Atletico are a sort of very interesting phase in their. In their evolution under Diego Simeone in that they are quite unsimeone, like in. In the sense that they, you know, quite an attacking team these days. They score an awful lot of goals.

Ayo Akimolere (37:20)

The addition of Adimola Lukeman's probably helped that as well.

Tom Williams (37:23)

Absolutely. You know, put four unanswered goals past Barcelona in the first leg of their Copa del Rey semi final.

Karl Anker (37:30)

That's something like the copodel race. My God.

Tom Williams (37:33)

Second. I mean, yeah, they were clinging on in the second.

Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere) (37:36)

This is.

Tom Williams (37:36)

This is true, but it's. I mean, yeah, we know what to expect from Tottenham in, in domestic football, it's generally just quite bad. But when it comes to continental football, I have no idea. It would feel like simultaneously extremely Tottenham, if they were to go out having lost 10 nil on aggregate. But also if they were to somehow

Ayo Akimolere (37:52)

to go through and be athletic, yeah, it's very spurting.

Karl Anker (37:55)

So Simeone uses pre match press conference to say Tottenham are the favourites for that. And I'm putting on a face going, is this gamesmanship, Are you doing the dark arts here or do you genuinely believe Tottenham are the favorites? And Tom's absolutely right. The financial wealth of the Premier League means Tottenham Hotspur now are the ninth richest football club in world football. They have the seventh highest wage bill in the Premier League. This is why they've had these back to back bottom half finishes for Tottenham are so strange. This is shocking underperformance for the amount of money spent. And yet because of the wealth of the Premier League, because the amount, the comparative amount of wages they can spend. Right, Conor Gallagher has gone from Atletico Madrid to Tottenham. And Conor Gallagher now is Tottenham's or apparently Tottenham's highest paid player. I'd be really interested to get him in the mixed zone, get him talking about how these two clubs compare right now. And Tom's absolutely right about how this Atletico Madrid team just aren't very Simeone in that. When you, when you think about their two triumphs in La Liga, the set, the center backs, just the way they looked, it's night and day to their current center back pairing in that they're just, they're not as. They're not as stocky. I'm sorry, I can't say that in a more intelligent way. They're a really, really fun team to watch, this Atelico team. And I would like them to win a trophy, One more trophy for my constant ongoing argument that Simeone is one of the best managers of the 21st century. I don't know if it's going to be Champions League.

Ayo Akimolere (39:23)

Right. Still plenty more actually to look. To look out for in the champions league. Newcastle vs Barcelona, Atalanta vs Bayern. Leverkusen vs Arsenal. Obviously Bodo Glimpse still doing what bodo glimpse do vs Sporting and Real Madrid vs Manchester City once again in the Champions League. All right, gents, it's probably a tough one to call right now, but Tom, who've you got to win the Champions League? I might just put my hat out to Bayern on this one.

Tom Williams (39:48)

Yeah, I was going to say Bayern as well. All right. Yeah. Partly because I think there is. I can't think of many more pleasing forward lines in the recent history of European football than Michael Alise, Jamal Musiala, Luis Diaz and Harry Kane. I think it would be a wonderful thing for that team to become European Champions. When they beat PSG before Christmas, despite having Luis Diaz sent off midway through the game, I remember thinking, and, okay, this was at a time when, you know, we didn't realize quite how far off the levels of last season PSG were, but that was very impressive. I think they're the team that have probably impressed me the most in the Champions League so far. So, yeah, I think if I had to pick one, I'd go for Bayern.

Ayo Akimolere (40:34)

Yeah, I was salivating at that front line, Carl. Incredible. Michael Eddy says form this season has been exceptional.

Karl Anker (40:40)

It's ridiculous.

Ayo Akimolere (40:41)

You got to possibly win the Champions League.

Karl Anker (40:44)

I am steadily preparing myself for Arsenal to win the Champions League. Okay, you look at that bracket and I think this is another thing about the Champions League now, in that the bracket and the knockout bracket means just as much as how good you are, and Arsenal have a very, very, very favorable route to the final. I text one of my friends saying, if Arsenal don't make the Champions League final minimum, I think that'd be classed as a disappointment. You're pulling your face now because you're annoyed that you weren't that friend. I text, no, I think. I think Arsenal, I think Arsenal squad building is best equipped for this new era of football. I think the League phase and its current construction and the fact that brackets are up in a certain way and if you finish a certain place in League phase, you can have a more favorable draw, means, again, it's less about being great and more about, do you have, are you good? And do you have depth in your squad in a way that you perhaps didn't have to consider in. In the 2000s or in the 90s.

Tom Williams (41:43)

Right.

Karl Anker (41:43)

I'm. I was born in 1991, so I was born in the era of 442 and top teams having four strikers. Whereas now it is. It now appears that you need six center backs to get through a campaign. And the way Mikel Arteta's composed things is that you can have an injury to Califuri or have Califuri Goff with some sort of complaint, and you can bring on a player as good as Hincape, and I think that's really, really good. The fact they rested Declan Rice and Zubamendi is really, really important. And if they can have more matches where they can do that and they don't have to play 90 minutes running up and down, they should get things done. Yep. Okay. I. I do have some question marks over how they're going to score goals in open play because Jacarez hasn't been the football player that we thought he might be. But if Arsenal don't get to those it get to the final, I'd be surprised. And if they don't get to the semi final, someone else on that side of bracket would have had to go supernova to get it done. So I think Arsenal win in the Premier League and I'm slowly preparing myself for Arsenal to win the Champions League too. Have fun. I'm not going to be in North London when it happens.

Ayo Akimolere (42:48)

Still well clear, trust me. Anyway, let's leave it there. Jets. Thoroughly enjoyed that Carl Tom, Appreciate your time and also thank you guys for joining us as well. We'll catch you soon.

Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere) (42:59)

You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroo and Jay Beal with editing by Paul Iliff and Nick Thompson. The Executive producer is Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, Search for the Athletic wherever you get your podcasts. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe the Athletic FC Podcast is an Athletic Aesthetic Media company production.

Progressive Insurance Announcer (43:36)

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Tom Williams (45:05)

Thy ticket lady Jennifer of Coolidge.

Karl Anker (45:08)

Well, many thanks, good sir. Here is my Discover card. They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs? Yeah, they do. Here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Getith with the times. With the times. You're playing the loot.

Ayo Akimolere (45:26)

Yeah.

Karl Anker (45:27)

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Ayo Akimolere (45:28)

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Karl Anker (45:32)

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