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- [00:00]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
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- [00:29]
Adam Grant
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David Ornstein
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Adam Grant
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David Ornstein
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- [01:33]
Ayo Akimolere
See full terms@mintmobile.com. The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me IO Akimwaleere 4 games, 4 defeats, 14 goals conceded and a goalkeeper subbed off after 17 minutes. So what is next for spurs and Igor Tudor with us today we our spurs correspondent Jay Harris. We've also got our football correspondent as well, David Ornstein with us. All right gents, this time last week we were talking about the situation at Tottenham Hotspur. I genuinely didn't think we'd be back here this week in such depth talking about spurs once again. But yep, here we are. So let's look at the defeat firstly at palace last week last Thursday. And then we look at the defeat on Tuesday night in the Champions League to Atletico Madrid. Shipping five goals to Atletico Madrid J Spurs are skating on some seriously thin
- [02:34]
Jay Harris
ice at the moment, they're just completely imploding. If you look at what happened against Crystal Palace, Mickey Van Event's red card led to them conceding three goals in seven minutes just before halftime. And the game was over. A game they needed to win. And it was a very similar situation last night. They conceded four goals inside 22 minutes. That's the sign of a team that's incredibly low on confidence and doesn't know how to respond to setbacks. I don't want to get too ahead of myself here, but in terms of Igor Tudor, the interim head coach, it's four games in charge, four defe, one red card, one goalkeeper subbed off after 17 minutes, 14 goals conceded. I think every decision he's made during his spend in charge has backfired. Players alone, confidence, they're being played out of position. Tudor has just not gelled with the players of the fan base whatsoever. And spurs still have what, nine games left to to save their season. But serious questions need to be asked as to whether Tudor is the the person to do that.
- [03:31]
David Ornstein
Jay, I thought the Crystal palace defeat was perhaps more damaging just because every Tottenham fan you speak to talks about Premier League survival. I know the circumstances of Atletico Madrid were remarkable, painful for anybody connected to spurs and really chastening. And we'll come on to talk about Kinski and the scoreline. But Crystal palace was on home soil in the competition that Tottenham cannot even contemplate falling out of. They were outplayed. Another red card. I thought Fulham, they would get something because of the seriousness of their predicament. They would come out with a draw and it wasn't taking anything away from Fulham, who are a great team, especially at home, and Marco Silva is a top manager, but Tottenham are good enough to get something there. When they didn't, you come back to home soil and whatever you do, avoid defeat. And they know they're not going to win the Champions League. So it was almost like a shot to nothing. They've probably caused more damage than than they should have, but that palace one
- [04:34]
Jay Harris
was just brutal, I think with the, the palace game. Firstly, palace were without Maximus Lacroix, who was suspended and obviously they sold Gay in January. So that sort of backbone of Crystal Palace's defense, that they were missing two of their key players, they are in a very difficult situation at this moment in time under Oliver Glasner as well. So they were low on confidence. I think the Crystal palace game, as you mentioned, because of what had happened the previous night with West Ham beating Fulham and Nottingham Forest drawing against Man City. I really felt like this has to be the moment which prompts a reaction. And over the last couple of years that I've covered Spurs, there's always been one single figure that unites the fan base in hatred, which is a horrible thing to say, but that's the truth. Last season it was Daniel Levy, and then for I guess, maybe a small period of time, it was Ange Postecoglou, and then he got everyone back on side with the Europa League win. For the majority of this season, it's been Thomas Frank. Now Frank has gone, Levy's gone. I actually think the fans don't know who to vent their frustration at. And I think what I saw during the game against Crystal palace was a real shame because I saw fans turning towards the club's analysts in the press box and sort of shouting at them. I saw them turning towards the directors, Watson shouting at them. People left at halftime. We put up a piece on the Athletic and we spoke to some fans who left and they sort of said, we're resigned to the fact we're getting relegated now. There was one gentleman who wrote in and said that he's not going to take his kids to spurs games anymore because the atmosphere has become that toxic. Like what a sorry state of affairs it is. You're completely right. The game against Crystal palace is more damaging. I just think the comical manner of how they lost to Atletico Madrid just sort of just reinforces that it's just a farcical situation and that they just can't get any type of remedy or escape from it, no matter what competition they play in.
- [06:21]
Ayo Akimolere
I mean, they're like the Keystone Cops
- [06:23]
Simon Hughes
at the back at the moment, aren't they?
- [06:24]
Ayo Akimolere
Top them. Goalkeeper slip Vanderbilt.
- [06:26]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
Oh, he's done it again. Oh, my God, he's done it again.
- [06:29]
David Ornstein
What is happening here? Alvarez, Kinski all over the place.
- [06:34]
Simon Hughes
They're getting Vicario ready down below us already.
- [06:38]
Ayo Akimolere
I was going to say we'll talk about Tudor's position in depth a little later on, and at the time of recording, he's still in charge at Tottenham Hotspur. But you mentioned it there, David, let's talk about the Kinski Vicario situation. Look, Kinski started, I raised eyebrows and I thought, wow, young kid, big game. Obviously there are issues around Vicario's form right now, but were you surprised when you saw Kinski in goal and also surprised by how the match ended up for the young man who had to be held off after, what, 17 minutes or so?
- [07:10]
David Ornstein
Yes and no. So when he was signed and people you talk to around Tottenham, around the game thought, very highly rated young goalkeeper with a high bar. He can really grow into being a top operator in his position. And I think Jay, correct me if I'm wrong, he was thrown in at the deep end. Did he start against Liverpool in his first match?
- [07:31]
Jay Harris
Yes, he did, yeah, in a Carabel cup semi final tie.
- [07:34]
David Ornstein
And he looked okay, actually, and he got a run in the team. I think Vicario was out injured and did himself no disservice or disgrace at all. We then haven't seen him pretty much at all since. And therefore there have been grumblings in recent weeks from Tottenham fans, of course, and people have seen mistakes Vicario has made. Not always been well with Vicario. And so we have our conversations internally around all clubs and one of the topics Jay will know on, on Tottenham heading into matches is we're hearing whispers that Kinski may be coming in for Vicario. So in that sense it wasn't a total surprise. And we've seen he's a capable, competent goalkeeper. That said, it's Atletico Madrid, it's the knockout stages of the Champions League. It's Diego Simeone, the intensity, the atmosphere at the wonder Metropolitano, and we've not seen him for ages. To prepare him for a game of any magnitude, let alone this one. That fills you with a bit of trepidation if you're a Spurs fan. And as neutrals, we're looking at it and thinking, oh, and one thing I'd point out is that when you look at that lineup, finally, despite injuries who are keeping some of their top players out, it did seem, and say what you want about the formation, that he was playing players in the right position. On this occasion, you had Archie Gray moved in into midfield, you know, the front line looked capable of causing some trouble, as it, as it proved on the night. And it wasn't bad. You've got Romero back from suspension, leading the line, but there was that anomaly at the back. Not much talk today has been about what on earth was going through his mind not to play such a senior player, and over the course of his time at Spurs, a dependable player. If we put some of the mistakes to one side, certainly it would fill you with more confidence than Kinski on that occasion. And so there was the possibility that things would go wrong. The nature in which it did was absolutely remarkable. It was kind of. You couldn't believe what you were seeing, his errors, Van De Ven's error, which shouldn't be forgotten, about, because, I mean, there have been a litany of them recently, whether it be disciplinary or actual slips and mistakes on the pitch. It felt very harsh to take him off at that moment, even though you understood the rationale behind it. If you've seen this sort of thing in football before, mainly with outfield players, it would have been at half time. They could have had a conversation. We don't know exactly the conversation between players and coach. He was asked about it post match in the press conference. Did Romero tell you to take Kinski off? And he said no, it was. It was my decision. So we can only take that at face value. Even though there was a conversation between coach and captain on the sideline, and the way that he ignored Kinski when he came off, it wasn't like, can
- [10:26]
Jay Harris
I just add something on Kinski? So it was his Champions League debut and his 23 on Friday. But what happened last night, in my view, is the culmination of 14 months of poor development planning from spurs from across the club. Because, as David said, when Kinski arrived last January from Slavia Prague, he played a few games in a row because Vicario was injured, and then he dropped out of the team again. And since then he's barely played at all. So I think in his entire time at spurs, he's played 13 times in total. But this was only his third appearance of the season and the previous two went in the Carabel Cup. Spurs got knocked out of the Carabel cup in October. So Kinski's not played a competitive game in five, six months and you're throwing him in at the deep end. And as David said, Kinski is someone who's regarded as a. A really talented goalkeeper, fantastic, expansive passing range. But you've not played him for 14 months, so what do you expect when you throw him into a situation like that? So, yes, Tudor should take some blame for making that decision, but it also goes a little higher up than that because there's just been no consistency in how they're going to develop these young players. And that's something that's been a big issue for Spurs. I know David touched upon Archie Gray playing in central midfield in Tudor's four games in charge. Gray's played at right wing back, left wing back and central midfield. It's chaotic. I feel for Archer Gray because his development is just completely stunted, because he's just shipped between whatever problem position spurs need somebody in that week. He just performs a role. So all of these things have been adding up over a period of time and then they all unravel in a manner that they did last night.
- [12:10]
Ayo Akimolere
David, you know, Jay makes a really interesting point. And we look at the, the amount of young players that have been brought into this squad and people talk about player development in so many different ways, but is it hard to develop as a player when the infrastructure around you is, isn't solid? You know, the ideal situation would be to have a whole heap of experience around these players so they're able to be filtered in through the season, get that match confidence, you know, build their confidence personally and then we see what they might look like in the next two or three years.
- [12:37]
David Ornstein
Yeah, it's far from ideal. IO and there was even speculation that Kinski was going to go out on loan for his development. He's gone from being talked about as a January loan to being called upon for an enormous fixture away to Atletico Madrid in champions league last 16. If you think about the other top teams who at this stage of the Champions League, you got an Arsenal they could turn and call upon Kepa, who was the most expensive goalkeeper in the world. You've got Chelsea. Say what you like about Sanchez, but there's an interchangeable number one, number two there where you wouldn't think there would be that much difference. Newcastle, you know, I know Pope's not the best time. What they do, they call upon Ramsdale, who's made a worldy of a. A few saves just recently. Manchester City. James Trafford was meant to be Manchester City's number one. That's what he was told by Pep Guardiola coming into the season when he signed from Burnley and they went and got the best goalkeeper in the world if they called upon Trafford when they do, he seems to do a perfectly good job. Liverpool Mama Dash Villi, one of the most highly rated sort of developing goalkeepers in the world when he came to Liverpool from Valencia and he, he deputized like questionably, you could say. But he's, he's already sort of in, in the higher echelons of goalkeepers in European football. And then I'll extrapolate it over to someone like Sousa, who came in in January as a new signing. Many of the conversations I had when I was trying to find out more about him was that very likely he'll go out on loan for his development. And that's part of the reason why Andy Robertson was targeted. And Jay's talked on View from the Lane about how important that potential signing would have been and what a miss it was that it didn't come through Robertson's experience People raised an eyebrow at the time, why are they going for Robertson? Well, you're seeing exactly why they were going for Robertson. Now it's a fair play for targeting. For whatever reason, it didn't come off. There's some sympathy for spurs in that. You know, we can go over the the quality of their recruitment and many of their signings, but there has been some method to it. We've talked about it many times over the last few years. High level young recruits like A Bergval, a Gray, a Kinski, a Mikey Moore coming through. He's an example of where it works better because he's gone to Rangers, he's played really well, high level, intense atmosphere and you would like to think that if they scramble through to this summer and give that new ownership, the old ownership that now has full sort of day to day control, a summer market to recruit, to sell, to use what they've got from an experience point of view. Now if the likes of A Romero and A Vicario and A Gallagher are going to be there, blend them with the Bergwajs. The you still got younger players like Destiny Odoghi when when he's fit, the Kinskis, the Sousas, the Mikey Moores and there is an opportunity there and there are personnel when added. This is a much better squad than Tottenham's strife would suggest. But this is so bad that you know it's got the capacity to damage players, damage the Bergwalds and the I know he's out injured in the grays of this world and that's why getting through to the summer without relegation is absolutely enormous on so many levels. And one of those levels, a massive level, is to properly blend the youth, the experience, integrate the youngsters and try and get this moving in the right direction.
- [16:08]
Jay Harris
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Agamolere.
- [16:14]
David Ornstein
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- [16:44]
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- [17:49]
Ayo Akimolere
Well Jay, I don't know if we should be asking this now, but we need to talk about Igor Tudor and whether or not he will indeed survive. Because we mentioned at the top four games, four defeats, 14 goals conceded. Statistically, it's the worst ever start to a Spurs manager. Now, straight after the game, you were part of five athletic writers, along with Adam Crafton, Oli Kay, Seb Stafford, Blow and Dan Kilpatrick to write about spurs and whether or not they should indeed sack Tudor. What are your thoughts on this?
- [18:20]
Jay Harris
Well, spoiler alert, all five of us, which might be the first time in athletic history, agreed that he should be sacked. Now, I'm not normally someone who calls for a head coach to lose their job quickly. I think I'm pretty patient. I like to see how things play out. But I had my doubts over Tudor's suitability for the role from minute one. And at the end of the day, he was brought in because he had a track record of quickly fixing broken teams in a short period of time, getting a knee jerk reaction. And we've had the complete opposite of a new manager bounce. Like you said, four defeats, 14 goals conceded, players being put in the wrong position, players making very erratic decisions, a back five. But five goals are being conceded away from home. It's a mad situation. I also think some of the comments that Igor Tudor has said have probably raised a few eyebrows inside that dressing room. You know, after the Crystal palace defeat, he said something along the lines of I've got a better idea of of who is on the boat with me and if you're you're not on this boat, I'm going to leave you behind. Clearly sort of insinuating that he thinks there are a few bad Apples within that spurs squad, which I think is true. You know, we've previously reported that Thomas Frank had issues maintaining discipline in that squad. So that that's not a massive surprise. But really what spurs needed after the end of the Frank reign was someone who had an affiliation with the club, like Robbie Keane, Harry Redknapp, Jermaine Defoe, for example, who could put an arm around the shoulders of these players. I don't think Igor Tudor has the cultural capital after a few games to start criticizing all the players and sort of kicking them when they're down. He needs to do the opposite. So I think he has to go. But as we have seen multiple times in the last year, the people in charge of the club at this moment in time, you know, the CEO of Katesham, sporting director Johan Langer, they've got lots of the big. Well, they've got all of the key decisions over the last 12 months wrong. Hiring Thomas Frank turned out to be the wrong decision, although Daniel Levy was heavily involved in that. Keeping Thomas Frank for as long as they did turned out to be the wrong decision. And hiring Igor Tudor has turned out to be the wrong decision. So do you actually have any faith that if they sacked Tudor, they'd be able to hire the right replacement? And I think the answer to that question is no.
- [20:36]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay. David and Nick Miller, in his piece after the Atletico Tottenham match, also said that getting rid of Tudor would be a huge gamble, but it looks like keeping him would be a bigger one. Are you hearing anything?
- [20:50]
David Ornstein
No. At the time of recording, he. He remains in the job and we haven't had anything yet to suggest he's about to go. Famous last words. I think the rumblings before Atletico and after Crystal palace in the industry, I must say, rather than specifically sourced info was international break gives him Athletico Liverpool Athletico again and then they can assess with a bit more time. There is obviously still time to salvage the Premier League season. There are some winnable fixtures. Not easy when you watch those first four games. When you see the lack of impact so far. Whether it was Tudor's fault, he says deeper issues, probably a combination of both. You sort of. It's clear that it's not working and there's no sign of under him it working. It would be no surprise to me now, and I'm just saying this is opinion rather than information that he goes, maybe not immediately, but after Liverpool or indeed that international break, just a guess, if they don't, you sort of feel, I imagine Jay will be closer to the ground on this with Tottenham fans, but those I speak to like and it goes wrong. How dare you not try and rectify the error? So. So if they change him in the next days or weeks, they at least attempted to do so. Whether they stay up or go down, they attempted to do something different. They recognized it was a mistake, it wasn't working. And whether it was the Vibesman that view from the lane has talked about so much, and somebody, a figurehead with real Tottenham connection, whether that person coaches on the training ground or not, to get somebody in to try and lift the atmosphere, arm around the shoulder, give the players and staff a bit of love and try and just scrape their way through. But the extent they went to bring him in and the cost it would incur to get rid of him. No, no, no. The cost of going down is much more expensive than firing Tudor. So the way things are going, I'd be stunned if they see out the season with him.
- [23:02]
Ayo Akimolere
What do you think, Jay? Is it time for a Vibesman to come in? And if they do twist on this, when's the right timing for it?
- [23:10]
Jay Harris
Yeah, I used to sort of roll my eyes a little bit when I was younger when people spoke about bringing Vibesman into a club because I just didn't quite get it. And maybe that's because for three, four years I covered the serene bliss of Brentford and there was no turbulence in my professional life. How I long for those days. No, jokes aside, I completely get it now, just because there's such a huge disconnect between all sections of the club. You know, as I mentioned, there were fans at last week's game who left at halftime, who were shouting at board directors, at club staff, etc. And you just want someone who the fans already have a relationship with and just for there to be a bit more of a bond, you know. Their next home game is against Nottingham Forest just before the international break. It's very difficult to predict what that atmosphere is going to be like. Actually, that's a lie. It's easy to predict what that atmosphere is going to be like. It's going to be tense. The only chance of it being slightly optimistic is to get rid of Tudor. We can talk about the international break would maybe be a smarter time to do it. But the fact of the matter is spurs is season is spiraling out of control. They need to do something to regain any type of momentum. I've not seen anybody message me on Twitter, on Blue sky or wherever, say that Igor Tudor should stay every. I've never seen anything quite like it. Everybody seems to be in conjunction that he was the wrong choice and the right decision is to get rid of him. So if spurs decide to cling on for a little bit longer and then make this decision anyways, it only looks even worse on them.
- [24:44]
David Ornstein
I don't know if he would be that surprised if he got the chop now because nothing has worked. His tone and messaging since he took over has been pretty negative and I, I don't mean to criticize him for that, although most people in this position would come in and, and even if things were bad behind the scenes, try and strike a positive note. But he, he's been pretty brutal in what he's found and, and, and I don't feel he's revealing the extent of it. In fact, he's saying he's not. There's stuff that he doesn't want to discuss in public. So clearly there are elements behind the scenes that, that even he, I think he literally said it is worse than he thought it would be when, when he arrived. And that makes me think that if he was to go now, it's, it'd almost be like understandable from his perspective and, and like put him out. His misery is not working.
- [25:36]
Jay Harris
Hang on, hang on, hang on guys. And emails flashed up on my phone.
- [25:40]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay.
- [25:41]
Jay Harris
Igor Tudor will preview Tottenham Hotspur's Premier League fixture against Liverpool on Friday 13th March at 1.30pm so that suggests he is sticking around.
- [25:52]
Ayo Akimolere
Oh wow. They're not twisting. Wow. Okay.
- [25:55]
David Ornstein
And just picking up on something Jay said earlier. He mentioned Ben Katesham as chief executive, Langer as sporting director. But what about the ownership? The Lewis's took sort of full control when they booted Daniel Levy out. There are so many views on Daniel Levy, but I think spurs were Jay second or third in the Premier League when he departed. So I think it was early days, but things were obviously looking a lot better than they are now. The consensus in football seems to be that again, whatever you thought of him, he was quite decisive in terms of he would have given Frank the boot earlier and maybe have appointed somebody with a connection to Tottenham in a way that this regime hasn't. And then you've got to look at who's making the decisions now. It seems to be the Lewis family, the Lewis family trust. I don't think it's so much Enoch, because it, Joe Lewis is not allowed to be owning the club, which is why he put it in the trust. But you speak to people around the situation and, and they sort of think that he calls the shots even if it's not in a formal way, then Vivian Lewis, his daughter is there not a director, no owners and directors test. Maybe more of a figurehead and a presence than, I don't know, a decision maker. But then is it? Her son in law Nick Bucher is said to be pulling strings and very heavily involved in this. Not on the board, not a director, no owners and directors test. And Peter Charrington, on behalf of the family trust does sit on the board and I think has owners and directors test completed. So you've really got to ask yourself, and we need to dig further and gain a greater understanding of who's in charge here, who is making the decisions. And you know, is it Venkateshem and Langa or is it the people above him, the Lewis family? And the more people I speak to suggest it's the latter rather than the former. And that is a massive thread in all of this as well.
- [28:03]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, yeah, it does look like Igor Tudor will still be in charge at spurs for the Liverpool game, which is obviously their next match. And actually Liverpool themselves lost in Europe on Tuesday night. So we'll look ahead to that next.
- [28:22]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
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- [28:41]
Adam Grant
Hey, this is Adam Grant, host of ted's podcast Rethinking with Adam Grant. Have you heard of Bill? It's the intelligent finance platform that uses AI to help you avoid costly errors and optimize cash flow. In fact, Bill reports that over 90 of the top 100 US accounting firms trust them to manage, move and maximize money. Proven by over a trillion dollars in secure transactions. Eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.com proven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a $250 gift card as the thank you. That's bill.com proven terms and conditions apply. See Offer page for details.
- [29:17]
Ayo Akimolere
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- [29:44]
David Ornstein
Latina event at Whole Foods Market. You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akimolere.
- [29:57]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, joining us now, we've got Simon Hughes. Simon, we were actually going to talk about Liverpool, but as you know, Tottenham hijacked that. But, you know, Arnold slots, hundredth game in charge. Interesting one. But it wasn't a happy landmark last night though for the Reds, was it?
- [30:15]
Simon Hughes
Last night was another troubling night for Liverpool. You know, in isolation, it's a performance and result that you can say, well, you know what, it gives them a chance in the second leg, a very good chance, because, you know, Galatasaray at home are very difficult to beat, whether that's in Europe or domestically. I think the unbeaten home record stretches pretty far. I think it's like one defeat in more than 40 games. You know, it's very difficult place to go to, but you know, Liverpool played like this a lot this season. Dominated and had chances and just not being ruthless or quick enough when it matters. And they gave Galatasaray a chance. And despite the chances, despite the domination of the ball, never really looked like they were gonna. Gonna score. So it was in keeping with a partner performances this season for Liverpool and of course, very similar to the performance earlier on in the season in Istanbul. It didn't feel like they really learned from that that night. So, yeah, I mean, I don't think you can really afford to look at this result in isolation. It's been. It's part of a wider pattern of behavior, if you like, from Liverpool this season.
- [31:33]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, no Liverpool manager has won more of their first hundred games in charge. Obviously slot is now level with Kenny Dalglis. David, with that in mind though, are you surprised by how quickly the mood has changed by the fans towards him?
- [31:48]
David Ornstein
Yeah, and you understand the fan bases at all clubs and they're so emotionally attached. And when the bar has been set as it has at Liverpool last season with the title win and their historic expectations in domestic and European competition, you've got to respect that. But it is striking how big a groundswell of. Of the supporter base seems to be dissatisfied with slot. There is still like a huge amount to play for this season that could change that, whether it be domestically, not. Not so much the Premier League, but of course they're. They're fighting to finish in the Champions League places, but in. In the Champions League in particular, they can turn that around against Galatasaray. And then they've got, you know, a couple of months with a huge amount to play for Liverpool from from what we hear are steadfastly behind Arna Slot and you know he's under contract until 2027 and they want him to be their coach. The hierarchy are determined that he is the man to get things right. If they were looking at a. A recruitment process for. For coaches he's said to be the exact profile that they would be looking at and that there's not people on the market that they think better suit what they're looking for that they're happy with him. Of course the situation needs to improve and they think he can be the man to do that and he's happy there. So I'm expecting this to go on and that the club get to the summer in whatever shape it could be with success it could be with a lack of and start to really try and mold and blend this relatively new squad which has lacked. Alexander Isak British record transfer for the majority of the season. Florian Virt in his first season who was the British record transfer before Isaac and other new players in there like the Kirkes and the Frimpongs of this world. Mama Dashville and then big decisions on. On many contracts. I know people hated the phrase sort of transition but especially when Liverpool had come from a position of such strength and success. But that's literally what it was when you have the. The volume of. Of signings and. And many fans and non Liverpool observers would say they should have done much better in. In blending it together immediately and. And that's a valid opinion but I. I suspect and. And there could be you know further change. What's going to happen with Mohamed Salah? He'll be going into his final year so will Virgil van Dijk, Joe Gomez Ibrahima Konate's contract which I think there's constructive conversation around that one. I do think there is still a will on both sides player and club to to try and find an agreement is not there yet but the conversations from what we hear are a continuing and. And a pretty cordial. There'll be decisions We've seen Graven Birch renew what's going to happen with Alexis Mallister even though it's quite early with his contract. There's potential contract for S. There's been some reports in some places so lots of different things going on here. I expect a wide attacker to be signed like a winger. They're in for Semenya previously he didn't come to them but I think that's what they're in the market for. Rio and Gamo will develop again and so loads of different things going on. I don't think taking out the head coach is on Liverpool's agenda at all. Even though it might be what some fans want to see. But it is a really interesting time. And of course performance levels at Liverpool and other clubs need to improve. And that starts on Saturday against Spurs and then of course the massive second leg of the Champions League tie next week.
- [35:21]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, Simon. David mentions the word transition coming into this season. Was that a word that many Liverpool fans would have thought would be associated with this team considering the kind of business that they did over the summer?
- [35:33]
Simon Hughes
Well, I go back to last summer and when Liverpool made the number of signings that they made and invested the amount of money that he did, I did sense there was this assumption that the good times would continue to roll. I can understand that because it was an unprecedented summer of spending at Liverpool. Given the achievement that slot reached last season. I think everyone just assumed that it carry on. I mean, I tend not to associate that level of change with success really. I mean I've seen it at Liverpool before. Not the same amount of money, but remember, you know, the summer of 99, Gerard Houier made sweeping changes. It took some time for things to settle down despite, you know, that the quality of those players not, not being quite as good as the ones arguably that have come in this summer. The same maybe around, you know, people spoke about Kenny Dalg before when he was manager. There was quite a lot of changes in his summit. It just didn't settle down. So I always thought that this season, you know, would be, it would be an achievement really if the challenge for the league title. Based around the level of change and based around, you know, what had happened at the club over the summer with Diogo Jota. I just think those two factors, it didn't necessarily lend itself to the level of success that people were sort of dreaming of. So I haven't been that surprised by, by Liverpool's struggles this season. This has happened before, you know, under Jurgen Klopp as well previously. So, you know, just because one season is successful, it doesn't get easy. The next season gets harder. And for me the disappointment is, I think, I think previously when they won the league, they probably didn't invest enough in response to that and they didn't act quickly enough. Albeit there was the context around Covid at the time and the club was being quite cautious around what it did. This time they've gone the other way and it's sort of been met with the same results in terms of the Premier League, anyway. So, yeah, I mean, I. I felt at the start of the season that the best of this team will be seen next season, really, when things are settled down. But, you know, people understandably get carried away. I mean, Liverpool were doing things that they haven't done ever in the club's history. You know, spending £120 million plus on a striker, another £70 million on another striker. You know, this sort of. This sort of action creates excitement. But, you know, I think that a lot has gone against the manager this season, you know, in terms of the injuries as well. I mean, it's not very. It's not a thing that people really want to talk about or listen to. People just assume that the squads are so big now that they can absorb these challenges. But, you know, I see a lot similar in Liverpool's performances at certain times this season as last season, with the difference being the results. Small differences at the top end and the bottom end of the pitch at certain times. There were a few grumbles even last season. You know, people saying, is this really the style of Liverpool? You know, is this really this sort of patience, patient way, the way what we identify with? I mean, just finally, I would say that last night against Galatasaray, it was really symptomatic of Liverpool all the way through the season in terms of the way they started the game. Two big chances in the first couple of minutes, and it was almost like another big chance will come along. You know, we just trust ourselves. There was no urgency. Galatasaray scored and then suddenly they were all over the place. You know, bit too casual at times. Liverpool and I think people get frustrated when they see that. It was just like verse passes up a great opportunity to quieten the crowd, put Liverpool in the lead. Doesn't seem like anybody was really annoyed by the fact that he missed an open goal. It'll come again. You know, football doesn't work like that. You've got to be ruthless. And right the way through the season, Liverpool just haven't been ruthless enough.
- [39:17]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, Jay, let's leave the last word to you. Let's finish as we started with Spurs. Obviously they're off to Anfield next with Tudor in charge. Do you have any hope of spurs getting anything at Anfield?
- [39:29]
Jay Harris
Not really. I actually think the only thing which works in their favor is that they are playing away from home because the atmosphere is so bad at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium at the moment. And their form there has been so bad for a prolonged period of time, stretching back to even last season when Ange Postecoglou was still in charge. Expectations are going to be really low, so I think most people are expecting them to get rolled over, or maybe not rolled over, but to lose against Liverpool on Sunday. So maybe they can sort of use that us versus against them mentality to scrape a point. But Van de Ven is suspended. There'll be question marks over Romero and Polynha because they came off with what appeared to be concussion last night. David's already mentioned some of the other injuries they've got Odoghi, Bergwa, Benton, Kokudos. So they are going in to battle at Anfield with very, very slim picking. So if we're being brutally honest, I think they need to concentrate more on Nottingham Forest the week after.
- [40:25]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, cheers for that Jay. All right, gents, let's leave it there. Si Jay, David, appreciate your time and also thank you guys for joining us as well. We'll catch you soon.
- [40:36]
David Ornstein
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast.
- [40:38]
Jay Harris
The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroo
- [40:40]
David Ornstein
and Jay Beal, with editing by Paul Iliff and Nick Thompson. The executive producer is A.D. moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic Wherever you get your podcasts. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC podcast, so make sure you subscribe The Athletic FC Podcast is an Athletic Media Company production.
- [41:12]
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David Ornstein
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Adam Grant
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