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- [00:00]
Ryan Reynolds
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Mehran Sowarso
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Ayo Akimolere
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Ryan Reynolds
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Mehran Sowarso
It is an introvert's dream.
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Ryan Reynolds
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Mehran Sowarso
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- [01:03]
Podcast Narrator
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- [02:04]
Ayo Akimolere
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimwalere Como 1907 have gone from Serie De to Serie A in just six years. So what's behind their rapid rise and can they sustain this push to the top? Okay, here with us today we've got Matt Sl and also a very special guest, Como CEO Mehrun Sowarso as well. Look Mehran So good to have you with us. I know we were going to say, is the weather better in Como or London right now? What's going on?
- [02:37]
Mehran Sowarso
London's better right now. It's cold over there.
- [02:39]
Ayo Akimolere
Lovely stuff. Look, we have to get into the rise of Como, sort of. I guess many people from afar would look at this as a rags to riches kind of story, but I remember speaking to you a little while ago that there was an idea that actually you bought this club, but there was a. There was a TV idea behind it as well. Like, can you tell us a bit more about that?
- [02:56]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah. So I bought the club. Oh, we bought the club when I was running a TV station and at the time we just lost the Italian league rights, so we didn't have any live football. And we had this under 17 Indonesian team that we were placing in Birmingham and we were broadcasting the games live to Indonesia and the ratings were higher than that of the Premier League because, you know, it's a novelty, an Indonesian team playing against UK academies. So I thought I had the idea, like, why not buy a team somewhere, an amateur division team, and place these boys or some of them into this team and it now becomes a proper competition and people would love to watch that. And then when we bought the club, I found out that you're not allowed to have non EU players below the top division. So we have a football team, but, you know, not for what we wanted to do.
- [03:47]
Ayo Akimolere
Not for what you wanted to do. Well, then let's bring it forward then. When did you decide that this was a football team that actually had a real structure in your head for. And also were thinking, how far can we take this journey?
- [04:02]
Mehran Sowarso
Well, to be fair, so we tried to keep it as a content play, we tried to make documentaries out of it and we did okay. When we were in the fourth and third division, the budget was still low enough that it can become a content play. But when we came to the second division, the budget became significantly higher, that there's no content distribution could manage it. So that's when the owner says, well, then the only way for us to recoup our money back is to turn this into a business and see how far we can take this. And we got into it. Apparently getting promotion wasn't as easy in the second division as it was in the years before. And as significant investment were put into it then our only way to recoup our money was to get to Serie A, to the top league. And that's why we pushed. And then that's why we're here.
- [04:49]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, yeah, let's talk about the ownership. I mean, the whole heap of other business ventures they have. Football really wasn't the one. How do you go about convincing people like that that football is actually a viable space to jump into?
- [05:02]
Mehran Sowarso
Well, initially it was a content play, like I said, you know, so it was supporting our TV business. But when it became a business on its own, we had to figure out a way for it to become a business that the owners understand they're not exactly passionate about football as a business or passionate about football at all for that matter. So we had to work in a way to make them realize that this can be a business that could be successful.
- [05:26]
Matt Sl
I think I'm here to quiz you on the business side of it. I think that's my role here today. I don't want to do it all in one go, though. That'd be a bit rude. I mean, look, this isn't going to work for our podcast listeners. But you are wearing Como branded trainers.
- [05:43]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah. Yes.
- [05:44]
Matt Sl
And we can talk about some of that. And is that. It's not a Como branded top though, is it?
- [05:48]
Mehran Sowarso
It's a watch.
- [05:50]
Matt Sl
You've come, you've come with merch.
- [05:52]
Mehran Sowarso
I came with merch. Now it's actually become my own lifestyle.
- [05:56]
Matt Sl
Well, there you go. Lifestyle, I think is. Is quite an interesting idea to explore. So clearly, fashion, merch, what else is going to turn. I'm going to be slightly rude here and then I'll try and be polite later. A business that has failed twice in the last 20 years. There's been two bankruptcies at Kobe.
- [06:15]
Mehran Sowarso
Three.
- [06:15]
Matt Sl
Is it? Oh my God, I missed one. Okay. Has a current average attendance of about 10 and a half thousand, maybe 11,000. Is it okay this season? All right. But maybe I'm looking at last year's numbers. All right, so League 1, lower end of the championship in England in terms of League one, probably. Actually in terms of your attendance. I know it has a very beautiful ground and we're definitely going to talk about the ground because I think that is central to the business.
- [06:37]
Mehran Sowarso
Sure.
- [06:38]
Matt Sl
Plan. But at the moment, currently loss making.
- [06:41]
Mehran Sowarso
Oh, absolutely.
- [06:42]
Matt Sl
Yeah. I've been talking to a few people in the industry who are all very fascinated by your story. Everyone's watching. Everyone loves the concept. They are telling me the losses are pretty big. So how are you going to get around this? Because you also told these people and I believe you, I certainly believe the intention that this is going to be self sustaining, this is going to wash its face in two years.
- [07:03]
Mehran Sowarso
It has to be it's unfair to look into how much we put into the last two years. I mean, these two seasons as a basis of how we're going to run a business. Right. You have to consider this is a startup and unfortunately in football, as you move up the division, every year is like a new startup because suddenly the cost to run the business goes higher and higher and higher. It's not exactly a flat Runway. So I would say we're in the second year of our startup because this is this area.
- [07:32]
Matt Sl
We were a startup once and we spent a lot of other people's money.
- [07:35]
Ayo Akimolere
Money. Yeah, okay.
- [07:37]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah. It's the same for us. I mean, for me we spent a lot of other people's money because my boss's money. And they will never forget that. Right. We have to, to make sure it's. It's a business that's actually working. What were the money spent on? Players investment. Right. We could have done what other teams have done and just try to keep our Serie B players and change one or two players. But we will let lead us maybe into that relegation battle, then we have to rebuild again the next season. So what we've done is that we invested in a squad that can become stable and at the same time generating financial gains immediately, should we choose to do so. Today we have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 players who are under 20 years old or in the early 20s or 8 in the early 20s, which we believe we could double the investment right away. For Jesus Rodriguez, our 19 year old left winger, we bought him for 22. Pretty sure we can sell him for higher already. Nico, as you know, for 6 million we had an offer for 75. Asan Diao, we bought him for 12. I think we had approaches for nearing 60 million. We have Jayden Adai on the right, 19 years old. We know his value is a lot higher than how much we bought him for. In the back we have Hakabor. Ramon bought him for two and a half million and people are already talking about him as well. Alex Bay on the left is only 23. Martin Baturina, one of the highest, one of the most attractive attacking midfielder in Europe. When we bought him from Dina Mosagreb for 18 million, again, it will commence much higher returns. These are just some of the players that we put into the club. Hopefully grow at some point when we need to. But the priority is to actually identify where we can create sustainable businesses that is not impacted by performance on the field. And that's why we identify, I mean, okay, people say, oh, you're lucky you're based in Lake Como. But it was not the consideration when we bought the club. It was that just like any other business, we are there. Then we did a research and evaluated what can we do here to make at the time a second division team to generate a sustainable business. And we identified it with tourism, travel and tourism. And what's really unique, we can actually make it about sports, travel and tourism. So then we said, hey, it's Lake Como. The people that come here are different than people who are coming to other places, you know, so then we say, maybe it's premium soccer, travel and tourism business. And that's what we try to build the ecosystem around it. And it's not as if we're doing something new. This is our established businesses, established industries that we can just then anchor our key business into and try to grow from this, the ecosystem we build around it.
- [10:26]
Ayo Akimolere
As custodians of a club like this. How responsible do you feel then to, firstly, the heritage of the club? Because there would have been some fans coming to watch you guys from day one in the doldrums of, you know, professional football, to actually feel like you're there for the right reason. Because we often talk about football clubs here on this podcast. And, you know, people say one thing, but they don't necessarily do those things.
- [10:53]
Mehran Sowarso
Well, we're lucky because the ownership group have a particular way of working. You know, they're always giving back to the community. And what I'm doing in Como is only mirroring what the group has done in Indonesia. So when we had Covid, we were the first to offer immunization to help the community before anyone else did it. And I think we contributed a bit amount of money. And the other project that we did, we realized that tourism is one of the. When people say Lake Como, they think about George Clooney, everybody buying village villas, right? But I think one of our former CEOs said it best. It was like, you know, there's a dichotomy in Como. There's people who live in the villas and people who are serving the people that live in the villas. And these are our fans. It's a mixture of both. So a lot of them were making souvenirs or selling souvenirs to the tourists. And then we said, okay, why don't we remove that burden from them and we create the merchandise that they can sell for the tourists, and we only produce products made in Como. So again, you know, this is different. So we call it Como. For Como, 25% of the top line revenue goes back to the owners, to the business owners, 25% goes to the community, to any community projects that they choose they want to have and the other 50% goes back into reinvested into the products again. We started maybe with about 10, 18 businesses that trusted us to join it. Today we have 585 shops all around the Como province doing this and slowly doing these initiatives. They realize we're here for them, with them. We are very mindful not to disrespect them. When we look into changing logos and stuff like that, we go back to the heritage rather than creating something new. So the new the our new club logo is actually almost like their old logo. The slogan that we can use now, Semkoumask, which is a dialect of meanings. We are people from Como, is something that they used a long, long time ago and they haven't been using in the last 10 years. Well, the club wasn't there, but we adopted it, we embraced it and the city is very, very proud of it and they've been supportive of us. So we're very close to the tradition and we also respect those who have supported us before we were a decent team or before we were a team. So anyone who had season tickets when we were in the third division still have the same price today. They still pay for the same price when they were buying it in the third division. So we try to stay close to the community in that sense.
- [13:20]
Podcast Narrator
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- [14:38]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [14:48]
Matt Sl
You do.
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Ryan Reynolds
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- [16:34]
Matt Sl
Let's go with recruitment. You've clearly gone young. I'm told that you've gone very data. I think it's known that you have a relationship with Jamestown. They've obviously got, you know, a great story to tell. We're all aware of Brighton. They're an offshoot of Tony Bloom's company working with Harts and Grimsby and.
- [16:52]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah, yeah.
- [16:53]
Matt Sl
Are they the only people you work with? Are you, Are you, Do you. Are you a Jamestown run club? Do they give you a list of players? How much input are people in Como?
- [17:03]
Mehran Sowarso
We learn from Jamestown, we learn also from Billy Beane. This is the first one who actually helped us to actually get set up into the data approaches. Ludenautics with Ian Graham is also one that we work with, but at the same time we try to create our own version of it. So we have guys from Stats Bomb, from Royal Navy, from Brentford, we've taken a number of people from Azat, Alkmaar to then join us and create. So we have a 60 people strong data team that's developing our own system, so to speak. But we always work with other providers as well to benchmark what it is that we come up with.
- [17:40]
Matt Sl
Yeah, clearly you're more than one source of data, more than one expert. You're not beholden or tied to Jamestown. You are developing your own. Know how?
- [17:49]
Mehran Sowarso
No, for sure, for sure. You have to. And I probably read that how we don't just. It's a process.
- [17:55]
Matt Sl
Exactly.
- [17:56]
Mehran Sowarso
Data is only the top of the funnel. From there then you go into the. Whether it fits the playing style or not, then you go into the behavior analysis and then you go into the wheels of the social media history, which is five wheels between from the player, the girlfriend, the wife, the father, the mother, you know, all the, you know. So once you've done all that, then you go to the coaching teams and then we have the board of recruitment, which is the head of recruitment, the head of development, head of first team, which is Fabregas, of course, the sports director, head of football strategy and football growth and then myself and the ownership, Indonesia, all working together, deciding who it is that we.
- [18:38]
Matt Sl
There's a lot of voices, there's a lot of input. One of the things that sort of come up, I think in things that have been written about the club and the club success is Fabregas and certainly the Italians are referring to him as a English style manager in that he has an awful lot of power at the club and you know, basically giving him the keys. Is that fair?
- [18:58]
Mehran Sowarso
Yes and no.
- [18:59]
Matt Sl
Because of course he is a shareholder as well, which I think is.
- [19:01]
Mehran Sowarso
But also so is theory and so is Varane. Right?
- [19:04]
Matt Sl
Yeah.
- [19:04]
Mehran Sowarso
But with, with Cesk, obviously he's a very intelligent guy, first and foremost. But we do hold that system where we have that board of directors in terms of football. So no decision is made unless majority agrees. So Cesk is instrumental to all the decisions, especially the coaching team has to agree. If we bring in that, he would have to say, yes, I will play him. If he says, I will never play him, well, what's the point? Right? But it's a joint decision. I can remember there was a discussion in which we came across this guy, Jayden Adai, and CES was saying like, well, I'm not sure about him yet for today, but if you all believe in him. Yeah, let's see. So Cess was part of the decision process and he is humble enough to actually listen to everybody else, but at the same time, all of us also humble enough to listen to his opinion because he knows what he's doing sometimes we had a data player to our data. The guy's not good enough. But Seth says no, no, no, because he's playing differently with us. He would play this, this, this, this, this, this, this. And I can prove that the data will be wrong, will not be what the data says. And he has proven that with two players, if not more. One I remember is Lucas da Cunha. He was a player that was initially was a winger. He moved him into defensive midfielders and we bought him for 250,000 and we are now having offers for 15 million, stuff like that. And this, I would say that's all down to ces.
- [20:27]
Matt Sl
Cess sounds incredibly important. Is. Is there a bit of a key man risk here? What happens if someone came knocking for him?
- [20:32]
Mehran Sowarso
Well, we always talk about successions, all of us, not just for Cess, but also for myself and everyone that works for us. We are always in discussion success. If you were to go. I mean, like, we're not stupid. We know there are bigger clubs that will come to him at some point someday if he decides to he wants to go, he will have to help us and who will be succeeding him. So we have a succession plan that we always actively discuss together. Not just one guy. Hey, hey, if he lifts, it's this guy. No, no. Like, do you think this guy's right? Would he be your assistant coach? Can we bring him in early or what do you think in the future? Who would be the right guy to nurture all these guys that you've nurtured before? It's a discussion that we have to continually have.
- [21:15]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, yeah. Something I'm interested in. And it's more to the success of the club in general. And we've spoken about how potentially Sesque is pivotal to that is the other side of things, you know, I think I read somewhere that you saw the Coma model is like Disneyland, for instance. So when it comes to football success, where does that sit in that tree?
- [21:35]
Mehran Sowarso
Well, yeah, the way I say is like Disneyland, because the brand for us is Como. So that's what the Disney company is. And then the football club is the theme park division, it's the Disneyland. So Disneyland has to be fun. So the football team has to be fun to watch. So it has to be exciting. Winning helps, but you have to play attractive and. But winning is important too. So yeah, yeah.
- [21:56]
Ayo Akimolere
So then if that Disneyland needs to be attractive. Which brings me on to your question about the stadium. Talk to us about the redevelopment of this space because it's old, it's iconic and it's quite integral to the city, especially in its positioning in the city.
- [22:12]
Matt Sl
Right.
- [22:12]
Ayo Akimolere
What are those conversations like with local authorities? Because we've often spoken to, you know, journalists who said it's quite tricky trying to build in Italy, for instance, because you've got so many laws, slash, some of these spaces are, are really old and you'd have to pump a lot of money in to get it up to standard for. So where you might see maybe a stadium like Brentford, for instance, in the.
- [22:33]
Mehran Sowarso
Premier, I would say yeah, but no, but yeah, but no, I don't think, because the municipality has been extremely helpful with us. When we took over the club, right, the stadium's capacity was only 5,000. Not that we rebuilt anything. Right. But it was. A lot of the area of the stadium was condemned. You're not allowed to use it. So over the years we have made reinforcement to the structures renovations to now the capacity is 12,000. So that's why you said last year was 10,000. That was correct. Because last year we were only allowed to have 10,000. This year we've added 2,000 extra seats. We're now 12,000. Now where do we need to be if we move to continue? I don't think in Como can be more than 17,000, 15,000 maybe because it's a town of 85,000. Yes. We're close to Milan and we also mindful that 40% of our revenue comes from overseas, from tourists, from whatnot. You know what I mean? So is it enough? I think so. Do we need to change a lot? We can adjust with whatever the requirements is given to us. I haven't had any issues with what the municipality has informed us what we can and cannot do. And I think we're moving on quite well with them. So on one side, like I said, for the Kurva where the fans are sitting, the hardcore fans, their tickets have stayed since they were in the third division. I think it's like between 12 to 25 Euro depending where you are. But on the main tribune the highest ticket is $2,000. So it varies quite a bit. Right. And also, yes, we cannot have match day hospitality, maybe like what you imagine what you like, but I think ours is better because we rented four villas just behind the stadium. So our pre game hospitality is on the villas in the villas. So you can hang out by the lake, have your coffee on a lakeside villa and then come to the game and go back after the game and go back to those places. Yeah.
- [24:35]
Ayo Akimolere
On the flip side of that then if you're not able to generate that much on match days, does that stadium then become a year long space for activity? A year long space for continuous revenue design initiatives.
- [24:50]
Mehran Sowarso
Our plan is to actually convert it into a multipurpose venue for tourism. Right. So it would have to have about 10 restaurants over there, but all of them overlooking the lake. Because our stadium is right on the lake, as you know, and there are no other restaurants on the lake in that area of the city.
- [25:06]
Ayo Akimolere
Interesting.
- [25:07]
Mehran Sowarso
So it's, to us it makes sense to actually convert it into, into a hub of tourism.
- [25:13]
Matt Sl
I, I think it's a fascinating idea. I, I have spoken to many overseas owners in Italy and they, they all tell me how hard it is to build things, try and paint a picture, you know, for people that, I mean. But everyone's going to rush off and google straight away. Hill Stadium, it is, it is famous and it's. Yeah, you know, it's right there on the water. A bit like the Hill Dickinson at Everton.
- [25:32]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah.
- [25:32]
Matt Sl
Perhaps a nicer backdrop.
- [25:34]
Ayo Akimolere
Wait, a backdrop to the docks?
- [25:37]
Matt Sl
There are other grounds. There are loads of grounds near this water. Just paint a picture. What is it like seeing a game? Because it is very, I think it is very. If it's not the usp, it's got to be one of them, right? I don't think you can have more than one usp. But anyway, Como football is very much about the stadium. Isn't feels to me that the stadium is incredibly important to your business?
- [26:00]
Mehran Sowarso
No, no, I don't think so. Because the stadium, because of the limitation of the capacity is the experience of going there. Right. So that's kind of what I meant.
- [26:08]
Matt Sl
The experience of going.
- [26:10]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah, so the experience means like on the outside as well. Coming in. There's the only place you can actually like have a drink by the lake three minutes before coming into the game, right? And it's a beautiful lake, let's just say that. And for us, we go with the premium experience. This is why the match day experience that we sell our boxes for about 375,000 each, right. And we try to make it very rustic Italian rather than making it modern. Because if you as a Brit coming over to Italy, you want authentic Italian experience, you don't want to be a Las Vegas wannabe experience. So we want to make it very, very rustic. Every game day you come in, the food will be from the areas of our opposition. So it's almost like a mini tour of Italy. That's the kind of things that we try to do. But having said that, my goal is trying to make sure that the revenue away from football matches, if not exceeds that from the football operations. That's why in our retail division, it's one of the fastest growing division that we've got. We've got the. How do you call it, the digital, the ticketing side and also the data analysis is also a fast growing business for us as well. And then we have other commercials like the transportation and everything like that. We're pushing on all fronts to make sure we're not relying on one business revenue stream.
- [27:31]
Matt Sl
And looking at the website, looking at your own personal LinkedIn page, which I would recommend, people, it is one of the best. I need to change that, make it even more fun. Please go lean into that.
- [27:44]
Mehran Sowarso
That. Okay.
- [27:45]
Matt Sl
What is it?
- [27:46]
Mehran Sowarso
Is it Chief Delusional Officer?
- [27:47]
Ayo Akimolere
Delusional Officer.
- [27:49]
Matt Sl
Anyway, it's all. It's all good stuff. I can see how active you are. I mean, I've already mentioned, you know, the clothes and the watch and there's a big deal you've just announced this week, isn't there? Is it with Brioni? Is that right?
- [27:59]
Mehran Sowarso
Brioni was at the beginning of the season.
- [28:01]
Matt Sl
Yeah, that was very nice. You had all the players in the Villas Bond film. It was great. My concern, I guess is lots of clubs are having these ideas and the British clubs have tried it as well.
- [28:13]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, I mean, Arsenal do it quite well.
- [28:14]
Mehran Sowarso
Of course, Arsenal is probably one of the best, isn't it?
- [28:18]
Matt Sl
But Arsenal are a factor of many, many big number bigger than Como. My point is that it's a bit like the stadium, you know. Yes, you can get to 15, 16, 17, 000 and yes, you can definitely boost your hospitality section. And yes, you probably can charge more.
- [28:35]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah.
- [28:35]
Matt Sl
Than even maybe the Milan clubs because of the. Because of the. The type of people that are coming to Como anyway. Absolutely, but it's still quite small. There's only so many people that are going to want to buy Como trainers.
- [28:48]
Mehran Sowarso
You'd be surprised because when we started, the revenue and annual revenue of our merchandising was 53,000 Euro. Last year our target has moved to 10 million and this year 34 million. So just showing the growth right now, what we will announce very, very shortly is, is that through Alfarb, you have to understand, like in Como, we have the Como merchandise, which is linked to the football team. We don't expect much from that. That's maybe 10 million, that's it. But Como, the city Como, Lake Como, like the shoes I'm wearing, has nothing to do, no club attributes whatsoever.
- [29:19]
Matt Sl
That's a fair point.
- [29:20]
Mehran Sowarso
Y. Right. This is the fastest growing one. You can sell an Adidas hoodie for maybe 60, 70, $80. But the one that we've done, which is the Lago di Como sailing collection, designed by our chief brand officer ruigi, retails for €200. The same hoodie, I mean, nicely designed obviously, by Ruiji. And soon you will see through our root brands. We will be announcing Ruud for fans. Ruud apparel retail for t shirts, about €350.
- [29:48]
Ayo Akimolere
It's quite premium.
- [29:48]
Mehran Sowarso
They sell US$350. Yeah, yeah. It's distributed Harrods. And that's why when we collaborated with Ruud, even our clothes, our jerseys were marketed. That's why I've never heard of them sold the Harrods. But soon you will see through our route. Route for fans. We will be working with seven NBA clubs, two Saudi clubs, two Premier League clubs, and if I'm not mistaken, six or eight Italian clubs. We will be managing the operation. We will be managing all the retailer revenue. Right? So the revenue is part of our retail business. We are very familiar to our limitations.
- [30:25]
Matt Sl
And concentrate on that.
- [30:27]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah, but no, but yeah, but no, because without one there is not the other.
- [30:31]
Ayo Akimolere
Football is an endless money sucking pit.
- [30:36]
Mehran Sowarso
If we can grow.
- [30:36]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, it is, it is.
- [30:38]
Mehran Sowarso
If we can grow with the way we grow it, it's I think, one of the most lucrative business you can be. Look, when we started how much with the club, I bought the club for €800,000, right? The last offer the owners refused when we were in serie B was 60 million. And today the offer is already in the hundreds. Okay, so you were saying, like we spent X, will we recoup that? For sure, for sure. Even today if the owner says, let's go, let's close up shop, let's sell it they'll recoup all their money. Okay, for sure.
- [31:16]
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- [32:51]
Ayo Akimolere
Foreign.
- [32:54]
Podcast Narrator
You'Re listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akimolere.
- [32:59]
Ayo Akimolere
We've gone this far and we've not even spoken about the football on the field as well. We've touched on Fabregas a little bit, but yeah, I mean, look, let's just put it in contest. At the time of recording this, Como are currently seventh in Serie A. I have to take you back to the Juventus match because I saw your face blazing across social media at the joy of that. Here goes their starlet Nico Paz drawing in Cambiaz on Nico Paz. A win 73 years in the making. Como defeat Juve and Serie a for the first time since 1952. Some might say at this moment in time, Como are punching above their weight. What does it feel like as a someone who is in charge of a club like this to actually beat the.
- [33:41]
Mehran Sowarso
Establishment feels the same. I mean, one thing I've learned from working in MMA and football is that no match is more important than the other. No result is more important than the other. I mean, I cannot be too happy for a victory so that I don't be too sad for a loss. Trying to be like, just look at the data. How did we perform? If I look at the data on the metrics, we were predicted to achieve a certain amount. Yes, against Juventus we exceeded expectation, but there were games in which we performed below expectation. But Cesk in that game, executed every single one of his game plan to perfection, because he gives us a game plan maybe 48 hours before every game and he is not judged by whether we win or lose. He is judged whether his game plan is correct and whether he is able to execute his game plans. And there was the one, if there was a grade, it was 10 out of 10. Yes, it was a good win, but it's no better win than we beating Verona or keeping Napoli to a draw at 00 or Atalanta 00 without the key players that we had. We try to see it based on whether we can execute the game plan as we planned it.
- [34:54]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay.
- [34:55]
Matt Sl
Just sort of generally so many foreign owners now in Italian football. And it's gone very much the same way as here, right here in England. And I'm not sure if there's quite a majority yet, but it's close now, isn't it? In Syria? I think.
- [35:06]
Mehran Sowarso
I think then.
- [35:07]
Matt Sl
Yeah, I think that's what I thought. What do you make of it? What do they make of you? Would you do anything to Italian football? Is Italian football the whole point? Can it learn from guys like you or is that.
- [35:17]
Mehran Sowarso
No, I don't think that far. I mean, I'm just doing my job, what I'm told to do, you know, I mean, my job is to try to make money for the club and help the club grow. I don't work for the league, so I cannot think for the league. Right. And do I enjoy the experience working with the people in the league in Italy? Yeah, it's beautiful. Everybody is so passionate, right? And you still have the traditionalists and you have the modernist and you have people in between, but at the end of the day, everybody works together. I have been told the president of Napoli is the most unreasonable man on the planet. But in all my experience with him, he's one of the most pleasant guy I've ever.
- [35:51]
Matt Sl
Both consent guys, right? You're both entertainment guys in a way.
- [35:54]
Mehran Sowarso
But, you know, we talk about football, we talk about growth, we talk about development, and to me he's A genius. It's the same as the Perkasie at Atalanta. What gentlemen and what. You know, they're very, very thorough in everything that they do. And I don't think I've met a bad person, I mean, bad owner in Serie A, yet.
- [36:15]
Matt Sl
You will, don't worry.
- [36:16]
Ayo Akimolere
Give it time.
- [36:17]
Matt Sl
How is Italian football viewed in Indonesia? Because that's. That's kind of, I suppose, how you came to it, you know.
- [36:23]
Mehran Sowarso
No, I think it's very popular. Right.
- [36:26]
Matt Sl
How does it stack up against the Premier League, for example?
- [36:28]
Mehran Sowarso
Premier League is a. Is a behemoth. Premier League is number one. But to the older demographics we experience Italy in the 90s. Italy is still quite. Is quite strong.
- [36:37]
Matt Sl
Yeah.
- [36:38]
Ayo Akimolere
This brings me on to sort of, I guess so what you're leading to really, is really eyeballs on. On the league. You know, the first domestic European match to be played abroad is Como versus Milan in Perth, and that's going to be in February. That comes after UEFA reluctantly approved the fixture. Why do you feel, from your perspective, it's necessary to make this move?
- [36:59]
Mehran Sowarso
Not for us, it's for the league. Right. The league asks us whether we're willing to do it. When the league asks us. I said, like, yeah, sure, the NFL plays in Europe all the time. There's no issue. And we, as a league, we do need more exposure. Right. The Premier League is too strong, too big. Australia has a lot of Italian descendants living there, especially for Milan. They have a lot of fans, Milan fans over there. I think it's a good market for us to go to, because when I look into our E Commerce data, if I'm not mistaken, like, 5% of our E Commerce is coming from Australia, so why not grow it? So I don't mind. I mean, I thought it was a good initiative and I'd love to support.
- [37:37]
Ayo Akimolere
It, but we've seen in La Liga that there was a bit of a pushback from Spanish fans. Any pushback from your fans, because some of those fans won't get to see Como that weekend.
- [37:46]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah, of course we have pushbacks, but we have pushbacks on a lot of decisions as well. Right. And I cannot make a decision based on every single person's opinion. We just have to look at the bigger interest of the club and also the bigger interest of the. Of the league, which in the end serves the biggest interest of the fans too. If we all grow in terms of eyeballs and as you say, it would benefit everybody.
- [38:09]
Matt Sl
Will Como make money on that trip?
- [38:12]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure.
- [38:14]
Matt Sl
Yeah. And Is that money from the organizers in Australia? From.
- [38:18]
Mehran Sowarso
It's from the league. The league pays us. Yeah. But I think Como, the money that there's. The league receives, it'll be distributed to all the other clubs as well.
- [38:27]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. There's a conversation about fair competition argument, you know, as in Milan's home match played in a neutral ground. What do you make of that argument?
- [38:35]
Mehran Sowarso
I'm pretty sure if they. How many people, how many attendants at the capacity of the stadium in Perth, maybe 60,000.
- [38:41]
Matt Sl
I don't think there's going to be many Como games.
- [38:43]
Mehran Sowarso
I think you'll be like, yeah, 59,500 Milan fans. Milan fans and Como fans for sure. Which is what we will get in Sun Siro, anyway, so it's the same.
- [38:53]
Ayo Akimolere
Are you hoping to take out any combo fans with you at all?
- [38:55]
Mehran Sowarso
Well, we'll bring what we can afford to bring. 100, 150 fans if we're allowed to do it.
- [39:00]
Ayo Akimolere
Oh, really?
- [39:00]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah.
- [39:01]
Ayo Akimolere
Is that something that you're thinking about?
- [39:02]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah, yeah, we already offered it. If the game goes in place, we will definitely pay for about 100, 150 fans to come along or whatever it is number that we got.
- [39:09]
Matt Sl
Yeah, you're going to put charter a.
- [39:10]
Mehran Sowarso
Plane and we've done it before too, when we played in North America in a tournament over there, we flew in. We flew a few fans with us and two years in a in a row. So we participate in tournament called tsd.
- [39:23]
Matt Sl
Oh, yeah.
- [39:23]
Mehran Sowarso
And every year we. We bring our fans with us.
- [39:26]
Matt Sl
We've done the whole podcast.
- [39:27]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah, yeah.
- [39:28]
Matt Sl
Pretty much his game. And you've already made the point about the NFL, so clearly you haven't got a problem with the principle of taking games abroad.
- [39:34]
Mehran Sowarso
No. Well, for me it's like growth is growth, everybody needs to grow.
- [39:39]
Ayo Akimolere
A lot of the things you're talking about are really fascinating and I think we've spoken about it before on a different panel where I'm interested in the idea of disruption. We mentioned a team like Atalanta, for instance, and they've been quite disruptive actually, in their approach. And you see the journey to Europe, for instance. Do you take pride from disruption in terms of can we do this slightly different? Can we reshape reimagine?
- [40:02]
Mehran Sowarso
No, no, I don't see it that way. You have to see where we are because as Como, we have to play catch up a lot. Right. So if we try to copy someone else's playbook, we won't work. So we have to find something new and innovative. It's different that nobody has tried before. I'm not taking pride in it, but we have to find success, you know. That's why when we looked into the merchandising, we saw, forget the Como football take too long. But Lago di Como, you can grow very, very fast, very, very quickly. That's why we created our own tournament over the summer, the Como Cup. We had Ajax playing there, Celtic playing there with us, Al Ahli. And now we have like over 20 teams applying for next year's tournament. Why? Because we have so many tourists coming to Como, but they come over the summer and the season starts in August. What do we do in June, July? So we started this, we called Football on the Lake. And then now we're creating music on the Lake festival on the lake. We have to build a brand around it and grow it. And yeah, football is the catalyst, though.
- [41:01]
Ayo Akimolere
And does that brand look like European football? A bit like Atalanta, for instance. At some point in your journey, it's.
- [41:08]
Mehran Sowarso
Inevitably the goal, Right? I put that as a sporting side goal, but on the non sporting side, that's why I divided the companies into seven, all operating independent of each other. So that the retail side must not just be relying on football success, they have their own targets. And that's why we said, okay, Como football's not enough. We have to go, commo, like, oh, this is not enough. Let's work for other clubs as well, you know, and see how fast we can grow and cover the revenue needs that we need. We need to achieve it all.
- [41:39]
Matt Sl
Sounds very, very exciting. I. I've seen lovely clips from Football on the Lake. It looked great. I like the. The beer as well.
- [41:46]
Mehran Sowarso
You make. Yeah, our beer, La Comasca.
- [41:49]
Matt Sl
Yeah, it's good stuff. I mean, did it make money, the beer?
- [41:52]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah, because we consume it at the stadium. Yeah, of course. Did the tournament make money? No, not this year, but it will be.
- [41:59]
Matt Sl
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
- [41:59]
Mehran Sowarso
Because what you have to see, what we're going to do, everybody goes like. It's very quick to say, like, oh, you're not making money, you're losing anyone. Guys, we're two years, okay? We're two years in the league, right? Back home, when we start our E Commerce business is 12 years before things happen. I mean, we're not magicians. We're not flipping, you know, a hand and suddenly making money. Coming out from my Growing my hands, right. If you ask me what's my Runway, I need five years minimum to actually grow Como to become successful. Five years from two years, I'll take the Next three. I don't need five more years. Okay, I'm happy with the three.
- [42:34]
Ayo Akimolere
It's not bad, is it?
- [42:35]
Mehran Sowarso
We have to be, right? And this insurance is player trading.
- [42:39]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, that's the one I'm interested in. Because how do you, how do you keep hold of these players? Or do you want to keep hold of them or do you fund them? I mean, well, do you want to sell?
- [42:46]
Matt Sl
I was going to ask, sort of as a follow up to that question, given how data led you are and how you're cutting edge and some great ideas. You got all, you got all these wonderful players. When I talk to investors, they're often thinking multi club. They're thinking, well, okay, we need a pathway. I need multiple shot windows if I'm going to create this player trading model. One club's not enough. You've certainly got the financial foul power if you want to. It looks like you're starting to have proof of concept as well.
- [43:15]
Mehran Sowarso
Yeah.
- [43:16]
Matt Sl
Another club, another market.
- [43:18]
Mehran Sowarso
Never enough headache to manage one club, I can't do another. But we partner with other clubs. We partner with Ajax, as you know, and we partner with other clubs now. We just signed a partnership with a club in Saudi as well. We have a friend in Japan, Mexico, Spain. I think partnership is the right model and the partnership is to be comprehensive. We work on the commercial side, supporting them on the commercial side for Ajax, they send us players. Two of our youth players came from Ajax in a model. That's same thing as we did with Nico in Real Madrid. But the compensation was not money, the compensation was services. These are the kind of thing that we could look into and I think it's more beneficial, a change of expertise, sharing expertise and knowledge between clubs without having the headache of that financial response. Responsibilities are all yours.
- [44:04]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, let's, let's leave it there because it's been a really enthralling and interesting conversation. Rarely do we get someone like yourself to come in and really just break down. My pleasure in many respects. And even got Matt smiling, which is also really fascinating as well. Regular Mehran, thanks for your time.
- [44:23]
Mehran Sowarso
My pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you.
- [44:24]
Ayo Akimolere
We'll be back soon.
- [44:28]
Podcast Narrator
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beale. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Aiddy Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast. So make sure you subscribe the Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic Athletic media company production.
- [45:04]
Matt Sl
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Matt Sl
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Matt Sl
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Ayo Akimolere
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