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- [00:00]
Narrator/Advertiser
Monday AI agents took over my work
- [00:03]
Mark Critchley
and I absolutely love it.
- [00:04]
Narrator/Advertiser
Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind. Now they live inside Monday.com, so they see the full my work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data.
- [00:18]
Mark Critchley
It's safe.
- [00:19]
Narrator/Advertiser
Which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff. Knowing everything runs smoothly in the background.
- [00:24]
Mark Critchley
It's completely shifted the way we work.
- [00:26]
Narrator/Advertiser
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- [01:59]
David Ornstein
The Athletic FC
- [02:04]
Emma Payton
hello and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast. I'm Emma Peyton and today is my first show hosting. So I'm just a little bit excited to get going. And what a time to start as well with the World cup just a couple of days away. Well, let me welcome our studio guests for today. We have two reporters from the athletics newsroom, Jay Harris and also Mark Critchley. We both all right, all good.
- [02:28]
Jay Harris
You?
- [02:28]
Emma Payton
I'm good. Can we believe we're just a couple of days away from the World cup getting started?
- [02:33]
Mark Critchley
It feels like with every World cup now, people say it's just not. There's not the same hype as there used to be. But then when it gets to this week, you find it increasing. I start feeling like I'm in year six again and I'm like watching all the people, BBC and ITV title sequences. So I'm getting into it. Yeah. And it's coming. That excitement's building.
- [02:49]
Jay Harris
I did watch a lot of YouTube highlights over the weekend because BBC have started putting up old matches. So I think I watched the 2002 World Cup Final. 2014 World Cup Final.
- [02:59]
Emma Payton
Love it. Why not, why not, why not? We're going to build the hype today, aren't we? That's what we're doing. Well, I will be sharing hosting duties with Adam Leventhal before the show heads off to New York for the final week of the World Cup. But first we're going to talk about some of the players expected to shine at this summer's tournament and who could bring interest in the transfer market. I'm delighted to say. We're also joined by the Athletics football correspondent David Ornstein, who will very shortly be flying out to the World Cup. David, when are you going and how's the packing going?
- [03:33]
David Ornstein
I'm going in about 24 hours precisely from when we record this. How is the packing going? It's best we don't speak about that. It's normally a last minute and I really should be doing it now as opposed to being on this podcast, but I didn't want to miss the hype with you guys. Your debut, Emma, and look, it's New York, so we should be able to buy some stuff out there if needed.
- [03:54]
Emma Payton
Yes, exactly that. We won't keep you too long, don't worry. But thank you for joining us. Right, we are going to be chatting transfers today. It feels like a lot has happened already this summer since the season finished. Anthony Gordon, of course, with that move to Barcelona from Newcastle, Manchester City's pursuit of Elliot Anderson continues. Bring us up to speed with that and do we feel like deals are being accelerated because of the World Cup?
- [04:16]
David Ornstein
Yeah, I think there's always likely to be a little bit of a rush after the end of a domestic season, given a major tournament's round the corner and clubs would like to get some business done early if they can. That's always easier said than done, however, and it's most probable that you'll see the bulk of activity and a real rush after the tournament has finished. Players are back in their countries, or at least not with their international teams. They're available for talks and Medicals in an easier way than they are now. It's not to say there won't be activity during the tournament. I absolutely hope there will be because I need to have my hands on this sort of work while the tournament's going on. But there's certainly been an early surge and you mentioned Gordon. There was all the razzmatazz around the Real Madrid presidential elections and names being thrown left, right and center and Anderson is one that naturally is going to dominate this summer. It's probably going to be the biggest deal in the Premier League if and when it happens, because Nottingham Forest want a Premier League record transfer. We're talking sort of £120 million. Let's see if they manage to get that. But certainly with our revelation that Manchester City are stepping up their pursuit, that they had an offer submitted and rejected by Nottingham Forest, we don't know the exact figures around it, but clearly it's fallen short of what Nottingham Forest want. There appears to be a gap in valuations there, but you can kind of see the direction of travel here. Despite the interest in him from many other teams, probably most notably Manchester United, is City who are in the driving seat. And I think Emma, when Thomas Tuchel was asked recently about potential transfers during the tournament and he said there's kind of no deadline on this, it doesn't need to be wrapped up before the tournament, I think that may have changed things in not necessarily Anderson per se, but in all of these matters because if an England coach like Tuchel was setting a hard deadline on this, you've got to get your stuff done before the tournament begins otherwise it's going to have to have been after. I do think the likes of Manchester City on Anderson would have pushed to get this done. Now he has spoken to the the media out in Florida and said that's not necessarily the case. You know, as long as it just doesn't disrupt what we're it, it's okay then that gives negotiations a chance to rumble on selling clubs a bit more strength and and time to kind of eat more money out of the situations. And so this is not information or scientific. I, I, I feel like Anderson may have come to a head sooner if Tuchel had drawn a line under things. The fact that he's kept the door open means that and others are probably going to rumble on a little longer. But no doubt this is one that will will really be f and especially because he's going to be a starter for England at the biggest tournament in the world, a chance to further enhance his reputation and I think he will. I don't think that necessarily changes the price. We know the score with him, we know how good he is, we know the sort of valuation that needs to be hit. But it could make him sort of even bigger star in the eyes of the world. Depending on how it goes, of course.
- [07:24]
Emma Payton
Critch, obviously with you, with your Manchester United head on, it looks like Manchester City pushing hard to get Elliot Anderson. But any players that you've got your eye on, who you'll be thinking are likely to move this summer.
- [07:35]
Mark Critchley
Well, with my Manchester United head on, but sort of not with my Manchester United head on, because I don't think he's going to move to Manchester United. But never say never. I'm looking at Ayubuadi from Martin.
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David Ornstein
He's taking one off of the tip of my tongue.
- [07:48]
Mark Critchley
Ah, there we go.
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David Ornstein
That was my almost pleased to say Edison. Didn't you read the script? You're meant to say Edison, the incoming United signing. I'm meant to take Boadi. Anyway, go for it.
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Mark Critchley
He wasn't let the world come until yesterday. Edison though, so I did these notes before that. But BODI, yeah, look, 18 year old, very highly rated. One of the most highly rated teenagers in Europe, I think. Born in France to Moroccan parents, he actually only declared for Morocco two weeks ago. Might have had something to do with the World cup being not too far away, but, you know, very technical player. Little Zidane, Marseille, turns out of pressure. I think all the top clubs that you're in Europe have been watching this guy and keeping tabs on him for a while and they've run the rule over him, you know, whether it's this summer, whether it's next summer, we'll see. I think he's got a bright future, but certainly if he has a huge tournament for Morocco, who are one of the dark horses, I think a lot of people would think, then you're going to see his name pop up in conversations a lot more.
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Emma Payton
What about you, Jay?
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Jay Harris
Well, I wasn't going to say just
- [08:44]
Emma Payton
for your tongue as well, just for
- [08:45]
Jay Harris
a little bit of extra context. He played for France's under 21s in the final week of March, so it's been a rapid turnaround to deciding to represent Morocco instead of. I've also come for a couple of Moroccan players. That's partially because I've covered a couple of afcons. I saw them a lot at the last World cup, so I've sort of seen how that squad's changed over the years. So the two players I named were Ismail Saibari, 25 years old, had a good season for PSV, and then Abde Azarzouli, who plays for Batiste. But Ez Al Zouli picked up an injury last night and there's rumors that he's going to miss the tournament, which would be a real shame. But I think he's one to keep an eye on in the future anyway. He's very talented.
- [09:20]
Emma Payton
Winger David Critch has taken one of your players. Anyone else that you're hearing about making a big move?
- [09:25]
David Ornstein
Well, should we keep the North African flavor? Because the player I want to keep an eye on is Ibrahim Maza. He's I think 20 by Leverkusen, and he's a player who, from what I've seen at club level, has the credentials to not only have a great tournament, but potentially get a move after. I'm not trying to sell him from by Leverkusen, but definitely one to keep an eye on. And in that young sort of group of players, we cannot look much further than Jan Diamande because there's been so much hype around him. Again, RB Leipzig won't like it. They want to keep hold of him, renew his contract. But I think a transfer is highly possible this summer with, you know, Liverpool trying to do a deal there, which we've reported on pretty extensively. Paris Saint Germain in the mix as well, Manchester City and. And everyone likes him and this is his shop window, really. You know, we talk about the risk of major tournaments and. And not signing off the back of them, and scouts already knowing all of these players. They don't need a major tournament to show it, but clubs still make their moves in the market afterwards. I mean, I think back to 2002, before most of you guys were born, and it was the likes of El Hadjidiouf, Babyface. I'm just trying to compliment your.
- [10:35]
Emma Payton
It's all good.
- [10:36]
David Ornstein
You know, the Liverpool move. There was Papa Boubadiop and Salif Diao and others. That was the famous Senegal team. And of course they meet France again in this tournament. James Rodriguez After 2014 in Brazil, Shining with Colombia and getting such hype and transfers off the back of that. There are other young players that are going to capture the attention, no doubt. Ryan of Bournemouth in the Brazil setup and. And Vitor Munoz of. Of Spain. He. He was with Real Madrid, but he's gone off, I think to Usuna. Real Madrid have got a buyback clause of 40 million euros. And that guy is electric. There's a lot of potential. And then if you Bring it towards the sort of higher, more experienced end of things. One player who made his name really at a World cup and got a transfer off the back of it was at Qatar 2022. Enzo Fernandez moving to Chelsea from Benfica. Might he leave Chelsea off the back of this tournament? A lot of speculation around it. A player who's being talked about. Critch will have seen it with Man United for months now. Angelo Stiller of Stuttgart, Germany international. Let's see what he can do because he'll be exposed to so many more eyes now and then. Bigger names like there's been uncertainty around Chouameni, a player who shone against England at the last World cup in knocking them out. I think the the direction of travel might now be for him to stay at Real Madrid despite the altercation with Fede Valverde and and, and even guys like Nico Schlotterbeck, another German. He signed a new contract with Borussia Dortmund, but it's got a release clause in it and he's a left footed ball playing center half. Very similar to Gonzelo Inacio Sporting Club de Portugal, 24 years old. These left footed centre backs are in high demand and he's been impressing too. So yeah Emma, there are absolutely tons of players that whether people think it's a good idea to recruit off of the back of major tournaments or not, no doubt they're really going to have a chance to impress and their names are going to be swirling around and fans and people like us are going to be talking about them in the context of the market. Even though the focus right now is the World cup.
- [12:39]
Emma Payton
Obviously you mentioned a number of players there. I think Liverpool fans ears will prick up when you're talking about Jandi Amandijk has like you said, had a super impressive debut season at RB Leipzig. 20 goal contributions. That was despite missing games because of AFCON as well. I just want to get your thoughts on Ryan then because you mentioned him. Bournemouth fans maybe won't be too happy with reports circulating about a potential move because he only joined Bournemouth in January, didn't he?
- [13:01]
David Ornstein
Yeah, and it would be a real shock to me if he was to move on from there so quickly. Not least because Bournemouth have no intention of selling him or any of their big stars during this transfer window. They want to give Marco Rosa a real opportunity for at least one season European football to capitalize on having such quality players at his disposal and then I think in 12 months time there would be understanding of the fact that they may move on to seek pastures new and What Bournemouth have done so well is regenerate players have left for a profit, gone on to some of the biggest clubs in world football, yet Bournemouth seemed to have got even better. The only slight caveat there, Emma, is that there are release clauses in the contracts of some of these guys like Ryan. I think we reported on the Athletic recently 130 million or something applicable in January. I don't know the the ins and outs of that. I don't see somebody paying that right now. As good and as promising as he is and as you know, capable. Not just in attack, but he tracks back as well, which made him so valuable to Bournemouth last season. And Doni Raiola loves him and so that may generate links towards Liverpool, given that they're looking for wide attacking players, but Bournemouth definitely intend to keep him
- [14:15]
Narrator/Advertiser
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- [17:06]
Emma Payton
I think the World cup guys can obviously be seen as an audition for some players and this window where you've got the eyes of the football world on you. But like David mentioned a minute ago, history has taught us that it's a gamble sometimes, isn't it? Purchasing off the back of a good World Cup. What names stand out to you? Critch for good or bad over the years where we've seen players bought off the back of a really good summer.
- [17:30]
Mark Critchley
Well, I'm going to take the good ones and leave Jay with the drafts if that's okay. I think instinctively you're drawn towards Real Madrid because they would always just go and buy whichever the best player of the tournament was. And that's sort of playing on easy mode when you're the biggest club in the world. So I'm tempted not to go there. So Ronaldo Cannavaro, Ozil. Yeah, all those. But I'm going to go for understated excellence, which I think was Gilberto Silva for arsenal after the 2002 World Cup. Now I was like 11 then I think. So there's no reason why I would have known about Dilberto Silva when he was playing at Atletico Mineiro in Brazil, but I don't think many people did either. And yet he came in six seasons at Arsenal, almost 250 appearances. Key Part of the Invincibles of course. I think down as an Arsenal legend since then and that is an example of learning about A player during a tournament because I don't think he was widely known even within English football, world football, whatever. But they came in and was a huge part of an iconic side. So I think he stands out. And then the other one. I'm going for a slight cult hero status here. I'm going for Daniel Amakachi for everton.
- [18:32]
David Ornstein
Oh, yes.
- [18:33]
Mark Critchley
3 million from club Bruges. Ornie's got it signed on the back of Nigeria's performances at USA 94. I don't think he pulled up too many trees, right. But he famously subbed himself on in the FA cup semi final against Tottenham. Walked onto the pitch without permission from his manager, Joe Royal, scored two to send Everton to Wembley. Of course, they go on to win in the final against Manchester United as well that year. Joe Rowe said it was the. I think he said it was the greatest substitution he never made. And that. That is cult hero status. And I think that's what a World cup signing that's signed out of completely nowhere, that's the sort of thing you want to achieve, is that.
- [19:08]
Emma Payton
Very good. Love that. Jay, you've got the most disappointing post World cup signings then.
- [19:13]
Jay Harris
I mean, I can't top what critics just said there. Me and Chris were actually having this discussion off air a minute ago, so I'm going to let him come back to my suggestion. But I watched a lot of Morocco's games at the last World cup in Qatar and I thought Sofia and Amrabat was absolutely amazing. And I think there's that one viral moment everybody remembers of him basically chasing Kylian Mbappe the entire length of the pitch and then he. He wins the ball. But he was just integral to that Morocco midfield. There were other players who were maybe more technical ahead of him, like Azzedine U Nahi and he just sort of held it all together. And then it was six months after the tournament that he did move to Man United. But everyone knew he was going to leave for Fiorentina and he was only at Old Trafford on loan. But I was just massively disappointed by his time in English football. But I think Critch is going to try and fight back on that.
- [20:00]
Mark Critchley
Well, look, like three things, I would
- [20:02]
Jay Harris
say three, it was too early.
- [20:03]
Mark Critchley
Three, it was two. But I just remembered. I've just remembered another one, actually. Number one. Played pretty well in the 2024 FA Cup Final against Manchester City. Came into the team for Casemiro, worked big call. But it worked out. I think there was a few weeks before that United were playing Newcastle at home and he made a last ditch tackle on, I want to say, Anthony Gordon. That basically rescued United's record of not losing a game at Old Trafford that they've been leading at halftime since 1983. So if he did nothing else, I would say maybe getting him on loan was worth it for that. And also the third thing is that I remember he actually provided me with my FPL team name that year, which was Amra Brat Summer. So.
- [20:46]
Jay Harris
Oh yeah, I remember that.
- [20:48]
Emma Payton
That's actually very good.
- [20:48]
Mark Critchley
There you go.
- [20:50]
Emma Payton
Any word on Kleberson then?
- [20:52]
Mark Critchley
Want to talk about Kleberson? What's there to say, I think with Kleberson, look, you know it didn't work out clearly. Came in to replace Juan Sebastian Verran didn't really live up to that, performed. I don't think United saw the player that Kleberson was and we saw that at that World cup that he won with Brazil. But it doesn't help when all your unveiling photos are alongside Cristiano Ronaldo and that just gets leveled at you for the next few months.
- [21:11]
Emma Payton
Should we have known after that moment?
- [21:13]
Mark Critchley
Yeah, not great.
- [21:14]
David Ornstein
Erik Djembajemba. So good they named him twice.
- [21:19]
Emma Payton
Yep. Good shout. David, I don't want to take up too much more of your time just, just before, before you go then, which club in the Premier League are you expecting to be the busiest this summer?
- [21:29]
David Ornstein
Oh, well, it's different and sorry to give you a boring sitting on the fence answer because they all have different requirements. So I think an Arsenal will do some eye catching business. No doubt they're Premier League Champions, Champions League finalists, but really they need to just add bits and bobs to what they've already built so that I don't think their volume will be the highest but maybe some of their quality will. And similar with Manchester City who are so well set, you know, despite the change in head coach. Manchester United need to do a bit of volume because they're stepping up into European and Champions League football from no European football and their squad is not sufficiently well stocked. So I could see a lot of activity at Old Trafford and of course they have some outgoing business to do like to Rashford and Sancho Hojlund's already gone. Maybe they'll get rid of Ugarte following the departure of Casemiro too. I always say never sleep on Chelsea because there's loads going on there. They've shown that they like trading since the new ownership came came into force. Tottenham just cannot let what has happened in the last two years Repeat itself and their survival was sort of get out of jail free card. And the new ownership, the old new ownership with the Lewis family trust sort of pledging to invest and to get this right means they've already started with a couple, Andy Robertson and Marcos Senesi, looking for more experience. And they definitely need quality depth and numbers too. Liverpool. I know their fans don't like hearing this but it's an ongoing transition. Even though they invested so heavily last summer, they won't have the volume but they will need to do some more, quite evidently. And they've got a new coach. That's the other thing, Emma. There's so many new coaches. Manchester United. Essentially a new coach even though Carrick was already in the building. Manchester City. Wow. Liverpool. Slightly unexpected. Chelsea. Incredible. Xabi Alonso. Tottenham. Their guy's been in for five minutes in De Zerbi. So if I was to give you one, that will be the busiest. I am going to say Manchester United.
- [23:42]
Emma Payton
Ooh.
- [23:43]
Jay Harris
Oh, man.
- [23:43]
Mark Critchley
This is a long simmer for me then.
- [23:45]
David Ornstein
Yeah, sorry.
- [23:46]
Emma Payton
Some of the crit.
- [23:47]
David Ornstein
I can hear the club execs listening to this thinking,
- [23:52]
Emma Payton
but he's not wrong. David, thank you. We will let you go and continue packing and safe journey out there tomorrow.
- [23:58]
David Ornstein
Thanks so much. We'll speak to you soon. Guys. This should be a great summer.
- [24:02]
Emma Payton
Now the Athletic is positioning itself as the definitive companion to the Men's World cup inside our app. All written coverage on the app will be free to read during the tournament this summer, so make sure to check out some of the amazing content already on the site. Jay Critch, have you read anything over the last few days that you can recommend to our listeners and to our viewers? Can be stuff you've written yourself, that's fine.
- [24:27]
Mark Critchley
Oh, it can. Good, because I was going to ask that question.
- [24:30]
Emma Payton
Good, because I was going to promote myself.
- [24:33]
Mark Critchley
I've done. I've done an exclusive interview with Zidanek. Well, former Manchester United academy graduate, played for United, made one appearance, but he's now representing Iraq. Talking about just his, his journey, his experience. Iraq had the longest road to the World cup of any team in qualifying, 21 games. And you know, he's a really important figure in like in Iraqi football but also when he was over in English football, he was one of the few sort of Arab and Asian players that was representing those communities in this country. So, yeah, chatting to Zidane, but if I wasn't going to promote one of my own pieces, then I think I'd go for the World cup group guides that the data and tactics lads have done. Because like, if I say anything insightful on this podcast for the next few weeks, it's come from there. It's come from there.
- [25:17]
Jay Harris
Yeah.
- [25:18]
Emma Payton
What about you, Jay?
- [25:19]
Jay Harris
I've read a lot about the U.S. men's National Team over the last couple of weeks just because I think it's fascinating to see if they can live up to expectations and just what Pochettino's done with his squad, leaving out defensive midfielders, you know, Chris Richards is injured, but having said all that, most interesting, I think the most interesting thing I've read over the last few days is Adam Levantal, who you mentioned at the top of the show and he's written something on Iran's preparations for the tournament and I think he spent some time with the Iran camp and that is just a level of detail and access that not many publications in the world get. And obviously quite a complicated story to tell and Adam's done a very good job of telling it very well.
- [25:57]
Emma Payton
Said something else to whet your appetite as well. Our writers have had their say in a predictions piece. So who their favorite is outsiders who they think might be a breakthrough star. So that's a really good read as well, with just a couple of days to go until the tournament gets underway. Okay, then, back to the show. You both, of course, cover Premier League clubs for the Athletic. So let's take a look at some of the players from both of your clubs who will be featuring at this summer's World Cup. Let's start with you on spurs then, Jay. The club, of course you cover for the Athletic. Well, after the season they had in the Premier League, they're still in the Premier League, but I'm guessing you expect them to be pretty busy.
- [26:31]
Jay Harris
Yeah. David alluded to it a minute ago and to be honest, I was surprised he didn't say that spurs will be the busiest because to me that's how it feels like. And the fact that they've come out of the block so quickly. At the start of the summer he mentioned, you know, moving with deals for Marco Senesi. All that's not completed yet. Andy Robertson has signed. You know, they've made offers for Jean Paul Van Hecker from Brighton. There's a few whispers of a few other players. It just feels like it's going to be a really manic summer for Spurs. The fact that they finished 17th two seasons in a row and just about scraped up on the final day of the season. It needs to be a massive wake up call for them to get new bodies in and I think a lot of players are going to be leaving as well.
- [27:06]
Emma Payton
So what's the latest with the JP Van Hecker?
- [27:10]
Jay Harris
So I know that Paul Barber went on, I think, Talksport over the weekend and said that there's been a second offer. We've not reported that yet, but if it's come from Paul Barber, I think we can sort of trust it. But I think that is a player who spurs have been looking at for an extended period of time. And it's very obvious that Van Hecker is linked to Christian Romero's future. And I think spurs are trying to protect themselves in the eventuality that Romero leaves after the tournament. They're almost trying to get his replacement in as soon as possible because I can imagine the Romero saga is going to drag on for a long period of time. So it's almost like let's take control of the situation by signing his replacement now and then sell him afterwards.
- [27:47]
Emma Payton
Do you expect Christian Romero to still be at the club then?
- [27:51]
Jay Harris
I think he'll go. And that's what I reported in the deal sheet on the Athletic last week, that there's a strong chance he'll he'll leave this summer. And that's for so many different reasons. Firstly, he is the club's captain and he signed a new contract last summer. So if you're looking at it from that perspective, you think surely he's going to stay, he's an integral person. But the stuff he said on social media about the club's hierarchy, that gives everybody an indication that he's not particularly happy. Firstly, his availability record from an injury standpoint is not particularly good. There's only one time in the five seasons he's been at spurs he's played more than 30 games in a single season. Like, I don't think that availability is good enough for a starting center back and a captain. That's before you factor in the suspension record. Sent off more times than any other Premier League player since he joined spurs in 2021. Just his general erraticness on the pitch sometimes. No doubt when he's in the zone, as he will probably show for Argentina. Very aggressive defender, incredible passing range. But I think it's too up and down, his form's too erratic and I think spurs sort of need to say it's best for all parties to move on this summer. And that's what I expect will happen
- [28:57]
Emma Payton
with a sort of neutral hat on then kind of looking from the outside in. Krich, is there an argument to say that spurs are better without him.
- [29:04]
Mark Critchley
I think this is a controversial take. I think Tottenham are a better team when they have 11 players on the pitch.
- [29:10]
Emma Payton
Extremely controversial opinion, Clatten.
- [29:12]
Mark Critchley
And I think that, I mean, me and Jay, we were at Old Trafford actually earlier this season for the United spurs game there. And like my worst hot take of the season, I think, was going on our United podcast, Talk of the Devils after that and saying that the challenge that he put in on Casemiro was an orange card. I got absolutely ripped apart for it because I like a bit of aggression in my defenders and I think is somewhat undervalued these days. But when it gets to the point, you know, availability is the best ability. It's a cliche, but it's true. And I think Jay's 100% correct there that when you factor in those disciplinary issues alongside the injury problems that he has, you know, you can't show those abilities if you're set up in the director's box or not, as the case may be, as we didn't think he might be for that last game against Everton, you know, the biggest claim in the club's history, arguably leading up to it. So I think Jay's right. I think. I think it makes sense that they'll be a part in other ways, Tottenham fans this season. He clearly has a lot of ability, especially on the ball, but you can't trust him, you can't rely upon him, and you need that from a club captain and a leader, not to say just a central defender who's going to play week in, week out and one of your best players. So I think it really wouldn't be surprising if it reaches a natural end.
- [30:19]
Narrator/Advertiser
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Emma Payton. This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by Hotels.com when you're booking a hotel, here's a simple question. Why wouldn't you use hotels.com? it really is all in the name. As a member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout updates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So whether you're planning a grand adventure to follow your national team around North America this summer, or whisking your special someone away for an escape because you've been glued to the football for weeks, make sure to book@hotels.com and start earning rewards. Because when it comes to hotels, it's simple. Hotels.com it's all in the name. This episode of the Athletic FC podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. For many people, summer is is the best season. Warmer weather, more daylight and smiles on faces. But for others, juggling no kids at school for months on end, colleagues being away and the stress of a family holiday can be overwhelming. Therapy can help people better understand their needs, feel more confident setting boundaries, and create a version of summer that actually feels good. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform with over 30,000 therapists having served over 6 million people globally. Just just fill in a short questionnaire and BetterHelp will pair you with a therapist based on your preferences, needs and goals. If you aren't happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time, safe in the knowledge that BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the us. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find support in therapy, sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com fcpodcast that's better. H E L P.com betterhelp.com fcpodcast all lowercase and without any spaces one last time betterhelp.com fcpodcast.
- [32:25]
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- [32:52]
David Ornstein
Depending on eligibility, you can get up to a $250 cash advance. Terms and conditions apply.
- [33:04]
Emma Payton
Just before we move on from Spurs. Jay, you wrote on last week's deal sheet on the Athletic about their plans for Luka Vukovic, who has been on loan at Hamburg. How much could his performance at this tournament sway Spurs? His opinion on what happens with him next season?
- [33:18]
Jay Harris
Yeah, I think with Vuzkovic, spurs have to be careful, which sounds maybe a little bit strange because he's had such a good season in Germany and everybody is raving about him and you've got former Bayern Munich legends coming out and saying that Bayern have to basically sign him at all costs. But he's still only 19 years old and the sort of question that spurs need to make this summer is if we bring him back, is he Going to be starting week in, week out under Roberto de Zerbi. And if the answer is yes, then bring him back. And if the answer is no, because we're signing Jampo Van Hecker and he's going to be our first choice right sided center back, and then we've got Micky Van de Ven on the left, then I think you, you maybe risk Uskovic going out on a, on another loan, maybe at a slightly a bigger club than Hamburg. Maybe for a team lower down in the Premier League. Well, lower down in the Premier League. You get my point. And let him come back next summer and challenge to be first choice center back. And the sort of obvious example. Spurs fans might not like me making this example, but the comparison is what Arsenal did with William Saliba. They didn't rush him back and then when he was ready, he just slotted straight into the starting 11. So there's clearly a massive temptation to say let's bring Vuskovic back straight away. But his development is keen. If he's going to come back and not play regularly, then I actually think the bolder decision is to just let him stay out on loan at a different club.
- [34:40]
Emma Payton
Feel like you're going to have a busy summer.
- [34:41]
Jay Harris
Yeah, I'm definitely going to have a busy summer.
- [34:44]
Emma Payton
Definitely are crit. You might be as well because you of course cover Manchester United for the Athletic. Yeah. If what David, all he says is
- [34:51]
Mark Critchley
going to be busy and all he says is going to be cancel your holiday plan.
- [34:55]
Emma Payton
Bruno very much the main man, had a standout season, of course. Do you think this World cup could be the tournament where he has the same impact for Portugal?
- [35:05]
Mark Critchley
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think like play for player. If you look at this Portugal squad, it's. It's among the most talented at the tournament. You think about the PSG contingent, Joao Neves, Routinho, Nuno Mendes, think someone like Rafael EAO from Milan. But I would say, honestly, I think Bruno Fernandes is the most impactful player that they have. You know, he's, he's somebody who will dictate games, control games, as long as you give him the license and the platform to do that. And I think that is, that is the question, isn't it, with Portugal at this tournament, because is he going to be given the same level of influence that he has at club level? You know, I think we're all sick of having a debate about Cristiano Ronaldo.
- [35:43]
Emma Payton
I didn't want to say it.
- [35:44]
Mark Critchley
You didn't want to say it. I didn't even mention him in the good players at the start. And I probably should have. Let's be fair. Let's be absolutely fair. But, you know, that debate is run and run and run. And like, I remember having it when I was covering his time, his second spell at United a few years ago. It was constant. Just. It wasn't just off the pitch that there was questions about what he was bringing, but on the pitch as well. It felt like eight out of ten passes would go to him and two out of ten that didn't. Well, whoever didn't pass to him would be in trouble. And it just felt like he had such a gravitational pull. I always used to think towards the ball, and people would just send it to him. And it was like it detracted from the rest of the team. And there was often an argument that, well, how can you say that? How can he be the problem? Because he's scoring so many goals, but if those goals are scored to the detriment of the rest of the team, United didn't have a good season that year. Then it's. Then it becomes. Then it becomes problematic. I think that is the big case for. And the big question for Portugal this summer is, how are you going to balance this team? How are you going to. And it's difficult, right, because they can't. You can't drop him. It's just too political a decision.
- [36:47]
Emma Payton
How are they still at the point of not striking this balance and getting it right?
- [36:51]
Mark Critchley
Well, because I think his influence is just so outsized. It's so overweighted, and like, it's his last World Cup. He said that he's 41 years old. He's the goat in some people's opinions.
- [37:01]
Emma Payton
So it's what you doing to get the best out of that situation?
- [37:05]
Mark Critchley
I think to get the best out of Ronaldo, he demands that you just. You get the best of Ronaldo. It's the same thing. So I would love to see it if Bruno Fernandes was the central force within that team. I think it would make Portugal a better team. And I think you could see at €20, 24 just how. Just how inhibiting it was that Ronaldo was such a big presence. But I think there's been progress since Martinez has gone as far as substituting him off in the Nations League semi finals and finals. So there's an understanding that perhaps he's not quite at the level he needs to be. And like I say, I think it's too difficult a decision to drop him. It's too political. A decision to drop him. You have to play him because it's his last World Cup. But I do think wonder if that's going to be to the detriment of what is otherwise just such a really talented squad.
- [37:50]
Emma Payton
Oh, it's going to be fascinating to see, isn't it, in terms of transfers at Manchester United. Then obviously they've started early with a signing of Edison from Atalanta for around 40 million pounds. A player that James Horncastle has compared to Pac man on the Athletic. If you haven't read it already, and especially if you're a Manchester United fan and want to know more about him, go and give it a read. Pac man is a good thing, isn't it, Critch?
- [38:10]
Mark Critchley
It is a good thing.
- [38:11]
Emma Payton
It's a good thing.
- [38:11]
Mark Critchley
It gobbles things up.
- [38:12]
Emma Payton
Yes, exactly. So look, they've spent a bit of money already, but room to spend more.
- [38:18]
Mark Critchley
I've sort of given up saying whether United are going to spend this much or that much each year because there's been times before we've gone in and you sort of plead in poverty and you're saying, you know, it's going to have to be quite constrained this summer and then they go and drop another 200 million just like they have over the last few years and it's exactly the same story. So I've given up guessing on that, I would expect. But I agree with everything Ornie said. I think this year is quite different, certainly from last year. You've got Champions League football now. You've got the club on an upward trajectory. You've got that ability to persuade players to buy players. To be honest, they had that last year as well when they were going against Premier League rivals with people like Matthias Kunya and Brian Mbumo, they were still coming out on top after a 15th place finish. So you always expect Manchester United to be busy in a transfer window and I think particularly they're always in a state of rebuilding. And even though last summer I think was probably, you'd say one of the most successful windows that they've had over the last five, 10 years, that rebuilding process is still going on. There's still a big gaping hole in midfield. Like they've got Edison. Well, they're going to get Edison, we should say. But there's no world in which he can be the only midfield signing. I think, as Orny mentioned, Manuel Ugarte's future is uncertain. You've obviously had Casemiro go. They haven't even replaced the midfielder, signed midfielder since Christian Eriksen left on a free transfer last year. So you're going from a position where Kobbie Mainoo was out in Siberia, you know, not getting a game, and now he might be the only last man standing in terms of the one who's only got a clear future at the club. So there needs to be more signings there. They like Matthias Fernandez at West Ham. They're not the only ones to like Matthias Fernandes at West Ham and West Ham. I don't know if they'd like to keep Matthias Fernandez, but they certainly want a lot of money for him. Well, I think in the position they're in with the, you know, our colleague Shane Thomas has been doing some reporting on this. With the position that they're in, I think they do need to sell players and certainly if you look at Fernandez, he is maybe the one within that squad that can command the biggest fee and if you can get a big fee for him, maybe you can keep a few of the others that you want to help get you back out of the championship. So I think that's one that's going to run and run and run. I think the fee is going to be a hugely significant negotiation on that. And like I say, United are by far not the only team that's going to be looking at him. And then there's others like Alex Scott at Bournemouth again, somebody who's I think liked by a lot of Premier League clubs and a lot of clubs are keeping tabs on. But I would expect United to be busy and not just in those positions. If you're looking at the left hand side, you're potentially looking up front for some backup for Cesko if Joshua Xerxe leaves. So there's a lot of spinning plates, a lot of moving plates and yeah, I'm starting to realize Oni's right, I'm in for.
- [40:49]
Emma Payton
You're in for a rough round this summer. Just one of those moving plates. I wonder where Marcus Rashford fits in all of this because obviously Anthony Gordon's move to Barcelona means that maybe Marcus Rashford could now be looking for a new club if he impresses at the World Cup. Is there a way back for him at Manchester United?
- [41:06]
Mark Critchley
Like I've learned in this industry, you can never say never.
- [41:10]
Emma Payton
Yeah, you're covering all bases here. So I like it, I like it.
- [41:13]
Mark Critchley
That's the job. Until it's not the job and I'm not. So I'm not going to say never. But I wouldn't go too far away from that. I think that I think the prospect of him being part of United's squad next season, I think as it stands, it's very slim. I think when he left on loan last summer, yes, Reuben Amarin was still in charge. Yes, there'd been a breakdown in relations between the pair and yes, that situation isn't there anymore. But I don't think Amarin was solely responsible for that decision within the club. And to be fair, I don't think it's a one way street either. I think there was an understanding on all sides really, that after a long association, after a lot of mutual affection between the club and the player, that there needed to be a change. And I think you actually, you've seen that this season as well, right, because he's had one of his better seasons in a while. He's played well, he's had a good year. He can look back on this even if he doesn't move to Barcelona as a year that, you know, he sort of rebuilt his standing within the game. I think so. So it's been beneficial in that sense. I think he would love to stay at Barcelona. I think there's that June 15 deadline on the option that they've got. It looks difficult. I think the way that Barcelona operate, this was always likely. I remember writing a piece when they did the deal last summer to say, look, this should be goodbye, but it might not be because what if Amarun goes? Because what if Barcelona try and pull a few levers and look what's happened. So this was never set in stone. I think wages are going to be an obstacle if he does stay. Wages are going to be a huge obstacle. United are back in the Champions League now. That means that this 25% cut that a lot of players within the first team squad have, that's no more. So Rashford is back to being among. Well, he was among the highest earners at the club, up to £300,000 a week. How many clubs going to want to pay that for a 28 year old? I think that's an open question. So there's a prospect. He's back at Carrington for training when they return next month. But is there much prospect of him playing? Isn't much prospect of him being reintegrated? I'm not so sure about that.
- [43:12]
Emma Payton
Oh, I mean, like Rich said, he's. It felt like he rebuilt himself at Barcelona last season. How do you see things playing out?
- [43:20]
Jay Harris
I feel a little bit bad for him, to be honest, because, you know, he won the La Liga title, performed like very capably at Barcelona So it was like Rafinha's understudy and then for his England international teammate, Anthony Gordon, to potentially steal his funder. Must be some interesting conversations going, going on in the training camp.
- [43:37]
Mark Critchley
And they're going for the same place at the World Cup.
- [43:38]
Jay Harris
Exactly. I think what. What Critch said is, is key. Leaving Man United was beneficial for him. He clearly needed a new environment. It was the club he'd been at his entire life, basically because he'd come through the academy. And I think when he returns or if he returns, there's just a lot of baggage and I think it's better for him and better for Manchester United that they both move in in different directions. There's a different attacking profile within the squad. Now you've got Kunya and Bumo, Ahmad Shashko, and I just don't know how you sort of crowbar Rashford into that. Look, maybe that he has a good relationship, Michael Carrick, and Carrick can envision him being a part of the squad, but I can't see a world where he sort of comes back in as the first choice left winger, which is probably what he'd want to do. And as Chris said on those wages, it's also then difficult to see where Elsie moves on to.
- [44:26]
Emma Payton
Yeah, like we said, a number of moving plates at Manchester United, I think, this summer. Gents, thanks for your company. That's where we're going to leave things for today. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Head to the Athletic for more coverage where all our World cup content is free to read. Thanks to Jay, thanks to Critch, and thanks for David for joining us for today's show as well. I'll be back tomorrow where we'll be asking who will win the 2026 World Cup.
- [45:01]
Narrator/Advertiser
This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by Hotels.com. when you're booking a hotel, here's a simple question. Why wouldn't you use hotels.com? it really is all in the name. As a member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So whether you're planning a grand adventure to follow your national team around North America this summer, or whisking your special someone away for an escape because you've been glued to the football for weeks, make sure to book@hotels.com and start earning rewards. Because when it comes to hotels, it's simple. Hotels.com it's all in the name.
- [45:53]
Advertiser
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- [46:49]
David Ornstein
Depending on eligibility, you can get up to a $250 cash advance. Terms and conditions apply.