← The Athletic FC Podcast
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- [00:01]
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- [00:30]
Ilkay Gundogan
Morning Zoe. Got donuts.
- [00:33]
T-Mobile Commercial Voice
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- [00:36]
Jeff Bridges
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you. Teach me.
- [00:41]
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- [00:54]
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- [01:02]
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- [01:02]
T-Mobile Commercial Voice
Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [01:03]
Ilkay Gundogan
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- [01:10]
Jeff Bridges
So what are we having for launch?
- [01:12]
T-Mobile Commercial Voice
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- [01:14]
Ilkay Gundogan
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- [01:31]
Jeff Bridges
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- [02:32]
Ilkay Gundogan
The Athletic FC.
- [02:36]
Jordan Campbell
Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. A truly special podcast for you Today we've got Ilkay Gundogan, one of the greats to play in the Premier League and a guy that's won a lot with Manchester City, five Premier League titles, the Champions League and let's not forget the Treble as well. He's also won two FA Cups and four League Cups as well. He had the opportunity to speak to our very own Jordan Campbell and they spoke about some great things playing at a Pep Guardiola, how he still stays in shape, but also that move to Turkey as well. Sit back and enjoy.
- [03:15]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
I know that's now coming up to two months in Istanbul for you. Ilkay. How much of a dream was that for you when you were growing up to one day play for Galatasaray? And did you think it was maybe not going to come?
- [03:28]
Ilkay Gundogan
To be honest with you, sometimes I thought might not happen, you know, like especially in the last years maybe, because I mean, obviously I was aware of getting older, you know, where my career was and we spoke a couple of times in the past, you know, throughout several summers. But it was never meant to be back then, you know, and it didn't happen and some circumstances also didn't, didn't allow it to happen. And even this summer, to be honest with you, we were in touch quite early, but then they were focused on other things, you know, on other players and transfers that were vital for them, obviously. So it was a bit of a waiting game, if I'm completely honest with you. And I know it sounds maybe a bit weird, but everyone who loves football, you know, grows up with a team, you know, that is very, very close to his heart. And for me it was Galatasarai since, I don't know, since I was able to think by myself and so many memories, you know, watching them playing on the tv. Everyone in my family there, Galatasaray fans, you know. And yeah, it was a dream coming true, to be honest with you.
- [04:34]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
I know you said all your family are Galatasaray, but am I right in saying that your mum is Fenerbahce? How does that work in the family?
- [04:42]
Ilkay Gundogan
At least she was. So I'm not sure anymore because it's very difficult if you support an opponent, the opponent team, but you still put a Galatasar jersey on, you know, like, and she has done that. So that shows me that maybe she was not that much of a fan or I don't know, she's just a huge fan of a son. I don't know. But we were able, I think we were able to flip her. So I think they're good now.
- [05:08]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Yeah. I know you've spoken the past. They'll tell you about how much you sort of dual nationality, Turkish, German means to you. I know in the past, you know, with Mesut Ozo, there's been some questions about how that's received, but does this mean a lot to you that you've played for Germany 80 odd times and now you get to go and proudly represent your, your Turkish heritage as well?
- [05:29]
Ilkay Gundogan
Well, it's a person I am at the end of the day, I was always aware of it and I will be forever. Yeah, I was born in Germany and I grew up there and I lived there almost all my life. And I have a very close relationship, you know, to Germany and a lot of parts in me, they're covered, you know, with, with German futures, let's say this way. But I never, I never gave up or I also didn't have to give up on anything that that makes me also Turkish. But I was always aware, you know, and I always was grateful and appreciated also my Turkish roots, you know, and was always very close to my grandparents that's still living in Turkey, you know, rest of the family so spent always all the school hol, you know, in the summer in Turkey. And obviously also I'm proud, you know, to be Turkish. So I think it's difficult for people to understand who don't have that, you know, whether it's Germans in Germany, English in England probably as well, or Turks in Turkey. But you know, if you, if you grow up between two cultures, which a lot of people do as well, it's probably easy, you know, to understand. And to understand also that you respect both cultures.
- [06:39]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
I know when we spoke at the Club World cup, in the summary, okay, you were saying that you feel as if you're capable of playing at a higher level for many more years. I know you're 34 now, but about your diet as a whole and your professionalism as a whole, I read that you had cut sugar out of your diet. I wasn't sure if that was a recent thing and whether as you've got older, you've made changes to those things.
- [07:02]
Ilkay Gundogan
The more injuries I got, the more I had to learn the hard way probably as well. And I had to ask myself also what things I can, I can change. But now it's already a few years that I think it shouldn't be something, you know, daily to produce, to consume, you know, like sugary things. I mean, of course when I'm on holiday, you know, or I don't know when I have a day off or after the game, I like to enjoy myself, you know, like I'm not the robot, I'm a human being as well. So I like things like everyone else, you know, that's, that's completely normal. But in my everyday routine, you know, and obviously building up to games, I'm very careful and senseful of what I do, what I eat, how I behave and what I should not do. That works for me so far. Really good or like in the last few years in a really good way. I think also my, my injury record of last few years has shown that everyone has to find the thing that works for himself, you know, and this is my thing that works for me really well.
- [07:59]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Do you have an age in mind? Okay, as to when you want to keep playing until.
- [08:05]
Ilkay Gundogan
Not really, to be honest with you, haven't said anything, you know, like in my head, I don't know. The only thing that I know is that once I feel like it's not so much fun anymore or I don't know that my body doesn't allow me anymore to be on a certain, certain level that I should then decide about that. But then obviously maybe I think I'm still ready for it and other people don't, don't think that I'm ready still for it, you know, Like, I think this is also something I need to see, you know, how things are going. But in general I think I'm quite sensitive, you know, to at least see a trend, you know, and see in which way things go. So I'll just go with it then.
- [08:44]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
To be honest with you, just when it comes to leaving Man City, obviously I know that was for the second time, but after you return there for a season, what was that final conversation like with Pep, who's had such a. A big influence on your career?
- [08:58]
Ilkay Gundogan
Just a sign of gratitude, you know, and appreciation for each other. We always had a great relationship and we always will have a great relationship and football always. Circumstances change, you know, when things evolve in different ways. And I think we are both smart enough, you know, to kind of see that and accept that There was no, nothing negative. Everything was on a very respectful, you know, a high level conversation between between friends at the end of the day. And not just with Pep, I have to say, even with the chairman, you know, or Ferrance Oriano. I had conversations with all of them and I have an incredible connection to the people of Man City and this will always be the case. Obviously I will always follow them, you know, as a fan and supporter as well. That's why the respect is still immense for each other.
- [09:47]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
I just wondered actually when you said you spoke to, you said goodbye to others when you leave the team behind. I know football players are now big parts of group chats and stuff like that. Do you get a farewell from the players? What happens when you leave the team group chat?
- [10:02]
Ilkay Gundogan
Normally just put a message and give some nice words to your colleagues because they have done also a lot for you and show just your appreciation to them. And then what normally happens is that they will most of them at least would reply, you know, and say thank you and would you would wish you also the best, you know, for the future. And then once you think, okay, enough messages, now you know, enough replies from them, you just leave. That's, that's how it works. You only leave the chat and then soon, soon later, a few hours later, you're on a new chat with new people.
- [10:42]
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- [11:50]
Derek Clason
As.
- [11:51]
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- [13:14]
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- [13:51]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Let's move on to the, hopefully the fun part. Okay, so there's a couple of clips here that I just wanted to sort of show you and then you can talk me through that part of your game. Yeah, so this one's your dribbling here and you know, this is, I think when your Dortmund days, that's what I remember is you, you know, getting the ball on the turn and running at pace with momentum.
- [14:12]
Ilkay Gundogan
Sometimes you just do things, you know, instinctively as a, as a football player, you know, you just don't plan things sometimes, I mean I try to plan most of the things that I do but sometimes you put yourself in situations were. Yeah, you have to react to what is happening in front of you.
- [14:28]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [14:29]
Ilkay Gundogan
But this was also, you know, in These Dortmund days, it was a little bit different football also, you know, it was very young team, athletic team, you know, and very transitional game, high intensity, a little bit like the club Liverpool that, that everyone knows, you know, and that was the way I had to adapt myself, which took me a little bit of a time, you know, coming from a small club like Nuremberg back then to Dortmund. But you know, once I got it, I got, if that makes sense. And I was just a member, you know, of, of a young and dynamic team. And it was a lot of fun.
- [15:03]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Because that's what I was going to ask you actually is the year you joined Dortmund was the year that they broke Bayern Munich's dominance of the Bundesliga. And you've, I think you checked this, you're one of only five players to have played for Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola. So you're very rare in the sense that you've worked with arguably the two best coaches of this generation. I just wondered when you reflect on your career, whose vision of the game is most similar to yours and how maybe they've both shaped your vision of the game.
- [15:34]
Ilkay Gundogan
Now sitting here right in front of you, I have to be very honest and need to answer Pep, because it's just of what we live together, achieve together, you know, the dominance maybe also that we had, you know, in, in the English Premier League for, for several years and the way we've played also so enjoyable football because the memory is more fresh, you know, as well. With Jurgen, I started working in 2011, I think summer 2011, which is more than 14 years ago, and I stopped working with him when he left, I think in the summer of 2015, if I'm not wrong, four years, which is more than 10 years ago. So obviously the memories are not that clear anymore in your head. Even though we had amazing memories together as well, you know, and enormous success. And I loved playing for him, you know, I love the way we've played football, you know, with teammates, I love the type of football and obviously also him still I appreciate and so much, you know, just as a manager, also as a human being, that every time we see each other or we saw each other as well, you know, when we face each other of Man City and Liverpool, we hugged each other, you know, strong, like a father and son. Both had a immense influence on my success, on my career, on the way I turned out to be a football player. But with Pep, it feels, in terms of football and the tactical point of view, you know, that possession based game as well, it feels a Bit more clear to me, you know, than Jurgen's more transitional football.
- [17:05]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Something that I think people have seen throughout your career is just that ability to read. Is that just your scanning? Is that your awareness and, you know.
- [17:14]
Ilkay Gundogan
Yeah, completely. I mean, that's only awareness, you know, that's something that helped me a lot. You know, also, obviously playing for Pep, because with Pep, you know, playing in the middle, it's all about awareness, isn't it? That's also why I enjoyed it so much. And yeah, it's. It's just about also making not just yourself, also your teammates better as soon.
- [17:33]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
As you lose the ball, you know, this is what Klopp's Dortmund and Liverpool teams were around for, was the reaction after it. I just wondered, okay, like, how do you remember those days, how he made that such a habit? What would he do on the training pitch that made that second nature to use to react so quickly?
- [17:52]
Ilkay Gundogan
It felt almost like, you know, when. I don't know. It never happened to me, actually, thankfully. But I can imagine only, you know, like, if. If you're in a building, I don't know, maybe the building is on fire and you. Someone hits the alarm button, you know, and then it's like. It's like panic, instant turning, you know, and everyone is like kind of running out. It almost felt like, you know, like it's just someone is hitting a button, you know, when we lose the ball and bomb people, you know, like, just sprint, you know, and try to recover the ball, you know, and so in such an aggressive way that you just overwhelm, you know, also your opponent at that point, you know, it's almost a sense, a feeling of that, to be honest with you. And at one point, it was just. We were just waiting, you know, we were just waiting to lose the ball, you know, and to react, you know, it was almost like, come on, lose the ball now. Lose the ball somewhere, you know.
- [18:37]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Yeah, no, that's really interesting because I just wondered about the mindset. And then you come to play for Pep, and I've got one of your quotes here, actually. Okay, so you described playing against Pep's Bayern as you spend 90 minutes chasing the ball and you don't understand why. It's like there's a matrix there that you cannot see. So what's it like when you step into that matrix in the first few sessions?
- [19:00]
Ilkay Gundogan
First of all, I was very excited, obviously, or I was aware that the expectation was high, you know, not just to myself. I know that Pep was so crazy in terms of trying to find the perfect game, you know, like trying to make his team play in a perfect way. I knew that, you know, the level of the training, at least at some point would be so high, you know, so it was demanding. It was demanding for myself, for my teammates, for everyone. The margin, you know, of making mistakes was just so slim that if you would do two mistakes in a row, someone would be already, hey, what's going on with you today? You know, like, if you. So you really had to be on top every single training session. And I think that was also one of the recipes, you know, obviously paired with the, with the quality of, of players and management and stuff that we had. But this is also the recipe for success. At the end of the day, I believe that, you know, if you're a demanding person, you will get out the best from the people that you expect performance from. Sometimes your best is not enough. Maybe. Okay. But if you're willing to do it, I think it's already a big contribution, you know, to the way to be successful.
- [20:07]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
I'm going to come on to Man City's build up and how important you were to that. Okay. But just before, I sort of wanted to contrast football back in 2012, 13, 14 to 10 years later, now how much you feel like as a midfielder it's changed because I know back then we're talking about transition games and Jurgen really made pressing such a, an important part of the game then. But nowadays, I think in the Premier League, everyone's talking about how teams are sort of going man to man. Even Man City, who people were scared to press years ago. I just wondered in the last year or so how you feel it's changed.
- [20:46]
Ilkay Gundogan
Yeah, I think this man to man thing has become really a trend in the last year, I guess. Yeah. And you, you kind of see that everywhere. Maybe it's also because it's also so simple and clear. You have your man and it's obvious if your man beats you or not, you know, so maybe it's more simple for the players as well. It's more simple for the manager as well. I'm not always a big fan of man to man, to be honest with you. In high pressing, I don't mind it, but then for me it's important what you do if your man starts to cross the whole pitch and another man comes, you know, like, are you following? Are you leaving the players to each other or what if a third man comes there? You know, like there's also a lot of potential to become messy, to be honest with you and me. Personally as a player, but also I think one day maybe as a manager as well. I don't like Messi, I don't like it. So it's a bit that, you know, what puts a question mark in my head. You have to know each other really well. You know, the pitch. I mean, if I think of a perfect way of playing man to man, I always think about, you know, Atalanta in Italy playing a few years back. I don't know how they play anymore right now because they are new manager. But back then we faced them in Champions League, you know, and they actually made it really hard for us, but we still got to beat them 5:1 or something like that at home. So you always have to, as a manager, you, I guess you have to, have to always decide, okay, what are the main qualities, you know, of your players or what kind of football you want to play to recruit, you know, the players that fit your style the best.
- [22:16]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
We saw those triangles happen so often where you would just play in, someone would come short and lay off. I wondered whether, because it looked to me like City tried to incorporate some of that maybe a couple of years ago.
- [22:29]
Ilkay Gundogan
Yeah, it was a big part of our game, to be honest with you. From my feeling and also my mind right now, it was always there at one point, you know, like it was part of the way we played football for more than four, five, six years. It straight when Pep actually joined, obviously there were, there were periods where we did it better and maybe where we didn't do it that well. But that's football in general, isn't it? Like always trying to find and see the free man even I think even teams that are not actively training that get to execute it on the, on the pitch because it's just happened so many times and it's so many times just a real option.
- [23:05]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Another sort of general trend. I wanted to ask you after we spoke about the man to man pressing and it's people talking about how fluid teams are now. Like, do we have set formations anymore? Because we've all seen Pep tweak things and change things and come up with new formations and new ways of playing. But it feels like the game is so fluid. It feels like you almost don't have a fixed position anymore.
- [23:30]
Ilkay Gundogan
Well, sometimes the opponent and the ball obviously also dictates your position. You have to try to create passing lines and angles, you know, for, for your players. And obviously the hardest formation you can do that against is a back five. It's really like that because an opponent that's that deep, you know, with five players and then three or four midfielders also, you need constantly changing position without forgetting that when you lose the ball, you still need to. Need to have the possibility for recovery. Pressing gegen, pressing, as Jurgen always called it in Germany, you know, but you see that still part of modern football, even right now. So we always wanted to attack in the positions where we also felt when we lose the ball, we can straight away, you know, get it back and regain it and attack again, you know, so we want it to be covered.
- [24:17]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
So is that what people would describe as a rest defense?
- [24:20]
Ilkay Gundogan
Okay, I think so, yes. Yeah, I think so. I mean, yeah, in Germany, they translated. Yeah, like that, rest defense. I actually never heard the term rest defense, but yeah, it was always like man up the pitch, how we cause it. I think at City, you know, like to be aware of the man up the pitch. A lot of people now use using it just to go and transition themselves, aren't they? Because now the game is quicker. The players, they have more pace, more strengths, you know, physically good. So especially in the Premier League, you know, for a long, long time, the Adama TR you are talking about as an example, you know, you had to make sure not to leave them much space, you know, and when you're a possession based team and you play 70%, 80% of the time in the opposition half and your opponent has a player like him, you know, and in the Premier League, almost every team has someone like him that can go on transition, then you really need to be careful.
- [25:11]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
When we watch Man City, it looks so effortless and it looks like you could pass it around all day. But how, how does he coach this where you understand where the ball has to go?
- [25:23]
Ilkay Gundogan
I think it's just patterns, you know, and you start also, obviously the more you play together, you know, into a season, the more you know your teammates as well, you know, and the more they know you and you know each other, the better you just think, you know, what your teammate could do in the next situation. And you are automatically one or two steps ahead of the game and of your opponent. And it just feels that everything just happens naturally, you know, and this is obviously something you train, but then in the games you execute, you know, and then the more games you play together and on a very high standard, the better it just turns out to be.
- [26:01]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Because, I mean, see these sort of patterns, okay, I know you say you work on them, but you know, would you do that with pep? Would that be your main type of training? Would. Would be specifically how to build up against.
- [26:12]
Ilkay Gundogan
Yeah, it's. It's obviously position based everything, you know, it's movement patterns, it's possession, positional games, you know, and training. And it's about taking responsibility at the end, you know, and do the right things, do the things that make it easy for your teammates as well. And then when it looks maybe risky, it's. It's not anymore. Because everyone knows what's, what's going to happen in a couple of seconds, you know, it's almost simplicity as well, you know, and I love that. I enjoyed it. I had so much fun, you know, playing this type of football because you get the ball, you know, and you overplay the lines of your opponent and you frustrate your opponent as well, you know, like they're pressing here. But always there's a man free, you.
- [26:50]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Know, as number eight for pep. Well, some people argue he makes it so rehearsed that players don't have a lot of freedom. But it seemed watching the number eight that, you know, using you, your job was to find the space and get it out wide. Is that, is that what the message was when you played number eight?
- [27:07]
Ilkay Gundogan
Well, obviously you had, you had your job to do, like, and there were things that you should have not done sometimes. But this was for the best of the team as well, you know, like you have to know that there's a responsibility that you have towards your teammates because when you do your job, the job that you're supposed to do, your teammates will know you better, your team will understand you better, and things will get more clear, you know. And there is a difference between many managers as well, I guess. You know, like a lot of managers like to give maybe a bit more freedom, you know, doesn't give clear instructions, you know, about what you have to do in 95% of the cases that happen on the pitch. For us, it was always our biggest strength was always that everyone knew his job, you know, everyone knew what to do for the team to be successful. And it was not about, I'm doing now my thing, you know, and I want to show off now or whatever. We knew that if the team was strong that everyone will shine at one point, you know, and everyone will get this moment. Obviously in football, most probably the guy who scores or assists will always get more shine on him, which is quite often the striker or I don't know, like the attacking midfielder or winger. But everyone respected his job, you know, and what he had to do. I don't know. I just think that there was no better season, no better football that I remember was played maybe by anyone apart the Barcelona team, you know, with Busquets, Chavez and Iniesta back then and Messi, obviously then we played, you know, that Trouble. Yeah.
- [28:33]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Are you always trying to paint a picture, you know, several seconds, several passes ahead?
- [28:39]
Ilkay Gundogan
Yes. I want to be in control, you know, I want to be in charge of what's happening around me and what influences my decision making also. And the best way of doing that is by looking and seeing, you know, it's not by assuming. Maybe. Obviously sometimes you kind of assume. Sometimes maybe you take a chance, you know, when it's like too quick or I don't know. But most of the time when. When your positioning is good and you're scanning, you know, and you look several times to reassure as well. I think that you will always have an advantage. Dude, did you order the new iPhone 17 Pro?
- [29:20]
Jeff Bridges
Got it from Verizon, the best 5G network in America.
- [29:23]
Ilkay Gundogan
I never look so good. You look the same. But with this camera, everything looks better, especially me. You haven't changed your hair in 15 years. Selfies, check, please.
- [29:32]
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- [30:17]
Ilkay Gundogan
Oh, the car from Carvana's here. Well, will you look at that. It's exactly what I ordered. Like, precisely. It would be crazy if there were any catches. But there aren't, right? Right.
- [30:31]
T-Mobile Commercial Voice
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Workday Go Announcer
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T-Mobile Commercial Voice
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- [30:58]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Spectacularly done by Ilkay Gundogan. Well, his goals are edging Manchester City closer and closer to this title. You started off as a 6 and 8. And then in the last few years you were playing a bit more, more advanced. How did you enjoy that evolution when you. Well, maybe playing higher up and as a sort of second striker at times.
- [31:21]
Ilkay Gundogan
No, I enjoyed it a lot because also my teammates gave me the freedom first of all. But then also I got rewarded because you know, sometimes you end up always making the runs, always being there in the box, but the ball never really arrives, you know what I mean? Which can be also sometimes frustrating. But my teammates were so good, you know, and we were such a good playing football team that I knew that if I keep making those runs, where else? I don't know, somewhere you would make it 20 times and maybe receive it one or two or three times. I make it 10 times, I receive it six, seven times, you know, like then obviously it's, it's easier also, you know, to keep making these runs because you know that in not just a long time you will, you will be rewarded and you will at least get the ball, you know. And then obviously it depends also on your own qualities, what you do with that ball. But it just has become a whole team habit, you know.
- [32:10]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
And early in your career, Ilkay, you weren't known for scoring double figures and goals. But then that 20, 20, 21 season, I think you got 17 and then you got 13 a couple of years later in your treble winning season. Was it Pep that identified that he thought you had the ability to see space and break into the box? Was it him that noticed that?
- [32:32]
Ilkay Gundogan
Yeah, for sure. I mean it was also something obviously that we trained, especially something we had to train that season, I think when, when Kun was out and Gabby Jesus also, they were out for a while, so we didn't really have a natural striker, you know, so we played, I don't know, sometimes me as a false 9. A lot of times it was Kevin or Bernardo Silva playing as false number nine, you know, so obviously we always needed buddies, you know, to make those runs into, into, into the box, you know. And I think especially that season the manager also spotted that I was really good in arriving there, you know, and doing those runs. And at one point it just gets automatically to an Abbott, you know, in training that you keep making it, your teammates also realizing it, you know, and your manager insisting on looking for those runs, you know, that you just executed in games, you know, and once you start scoring a couple, you know, like you feel more comfortable, your teammates feel more comfortable. It just becomes an habit, you know, on its own, on its own. And that led to me scoring, you know, that amount of goals and that year because also the circumstances allowed it for me, you know. Otherwise, if one of them would have been fit, would probably play still 80 to 90% of all the games and maybe that would have never happened, you know. Gunduran again, the king of comebacks at the, eh, Yeah.
- [34:02]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
I don't know what goal out of the two on that final day is your favorite. Okay. Whether it's the first one or the. Or the second one. But they're both very similar. And like, I think over the years we just got so used to seeing City score, get to the bio lane and back post tapping, you know, like, like was that someone said to me that Pep and. And even Mikel at Arsenal, they both have like a, A name for that zone or whatever they call it. Like there's so much focus on arriving into that back post.
- [34:29]
Ilkay Gundogan
I don't know about the name for that zone, but that's probably also statistically maybe an area where you score the most. I don't know if that's true, to be honest with you, but I can imagine because it's also very difficult to defend, isn't it? Now here for Matty Cash as an example, you know, like, he still has to keep the offside line. If he drops too much, there's no offside, you know, on the other side, I'm in his back, so he doesn't really see me, you know, like, because he still has an advantage. But for him to sprint back now to the same line as this last defender, I don't know how much sense it makes because he can't see me. So I could also just stay in a position and Kev could just square it to me there, you know, to the penalty spot. But I know Kev's qualities. I know that the ball will arrive and that he likes to. To put the ball exactly there where the ball end ends up to be. Because I'm also now sprinting, you know, towards second post and it's no offside. He. He holds the line with the. With his defender. But still the ball comes in such a dangerous area now where he. I just have an advantage, you know, because of where the ball has to end up as well. You know, the defender obviously can't allow the ball to end up in the goal and me, I have to try to make the ball end up in the goal. And the angle is just much better for. For the attacker, isn't it?
- [35:39]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Yeah, just the last few was one I wanted to show you was this one. Against Manchester United. Because you obviously gained that nickname of Mr. Whippy a few years ago, and I presume that was because the way you cuddled the ball in with your finishes. But I just wondered what you thought of the Mr. Whippy nickname.
- [36:00]
Ilkay Gundogan
I found it funny. I mean, I didn't understand it in the beginning, to be honest with you. Obviously, I haven't. I haven't scored that many goals in my career. I mean, I'm not a natural goal scorer, I would say. But, you know, like, if the team plays well and if the patterns are clear and if I play the position that I have played in all those games, I knew that I would always get. Get myself into positions, you know, where I have chances to. To. To score. And then it's just about being calm. Just try to execute as well as possible. Out to Zinchenko in the left wing.
- [36:30]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
Position, who drives it in. City have worked it well. Gunda went on the turn. That is a fantastic goal. What a brilliant goal. City worked it superbly a few moments ago.
- [36:40]
AG1 and Athletic FC Podcast Announcer
Kevin de Bruyne are off target this time.
- [36:43]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
They work it sensationally. Just inserted, like. As an average person watching, like we. We watch players in those sort of circumstances with four players around them, and we think, oh, he should turn and hit it. But what is it like when you're actually got those top internationals around you? How quickly do you calculate that turn in the space that you've got?
- [37:03]
Ilkay Gundogan
Yeah, of course you have to be quick. I mean, here I know that I fall, but when I take the ball to my left foot, I know that I'm running into three Chelsea players, so. And I know that behind me, there's not much going on. There's more space, maybe also because it's not occupied by one of my teammates. So Chelsea players are not so focused on that. So I knew already before Phil controlled the ball, even when Alex played it to Phil, before you were controlled, I knew that there's space behind me, you know, like, I kind of was aware of it. And then I just did like a. I don't know if you can. If you call it flick, but I flicked it towards my back and I knew I could have taken a shot, you know, directly.
- [37:41]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
And then just one I wanted to ask you about was last season, because obviously City struggled for the first time in a long time. People weren't used to seeing City struggle so much on the counterattack, giving up so many chances. I just wondered what that felt like for you, being in midfield. And as you say, you were set up not to concede this and then all of a sudden, it feels like teams are just running 60 yards at you so. So often.
- [38:06]
Ilkay Gundogan
Yeah, I think there was a period, you know, probably between October and February sometime. There's a period when we were struggled a lot. It's maybe also a bit natural because of how much we have won, you know, in the past and all the injury issues that we had, especially as well in that year, especially in defense. At one point, we dragged ourselves also down, you know, and everything frustrate started to frustrate us, and we just made it quite easy, you know, for the opponents also to go in transitions, you know, after losing balls and just be on the counter attack or invited them to score goals. We really struggled in a period like that that we can do it better. I think we have proven and shown after the March international break, you know, when we. When we played again really good football, you know, and won most of our games, and we were on a run again, you know. But then obviously, the season into the season that later was already too late, you know, to still try to fight for the top spots. But I think making it still into the Champions League after such a difficult season was obviously for us, still the best outcome that we could have had.
- [39:11]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
And just on that, how did Pep manage to turn that around? Okay, because you played a big part in the second half of that season where he managed to find a formula. What. What did he change?
- [39:21]
Ilkay Gundogan
I have to be honest, after that margin international break, we almost had all of our defenders back again, which helped, obviously, a lot. Everyone was fit, and the squad was competing again. Everyone was competing with each other. So to play, you had to train really well, first of all, and you had to play when you. When you were playing really well, maybe we got a bit too comfortable, you know, because we knew always because of all the injuries that we had, who was gonna play, I don't know. But the level just increased, I feel like, you know, and the expectation also from ourselves increased. And, yeah, here also, we were too soft, you know, too soft, too easy, myself included, first of all. And then you end up, you know, leaving space.
- [39:58]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
What's the one or two things that you think are the strongest part of your game throughout your career?
- [40:04]
Ilkay Gundogan
I think I describe myself as a simple player because I like to keep things simple, you know, in my life as well. But then also on. On the football pitch, I feel like it's enough already to make the simple things on the. On the highest standard, you know, as perfect as possible. Whether it's a pass you play, whether it's a control that you make, whether it's just a run that you make for opening up space for a teammate. You know, I just get joy out of simplicity on the football pitch. And if you look at our treble winning year as an example, you know, the way we built up, everything looks so simple, you know, but everything has been executed in the most perfect way and on the highest standard, you know.
- [40:44]
Jordan Campbell (Interviewer)
And see, in terms of that, it seems quite similar to pep and your vision of the game. I know you've said before that you've spoken about potentially working with him as an assistant in the future. I just wondered like how seriously and in depth have you spoke about that and how you work together?
- [41:02]
Ilkay Gundogan
Very seriously. To be honest with you, I already finished to do my first batch. I will do the other ones as well. I just feels natural to me, you know, to go into that space. Oh, unbelievable. From Gundogan History beckons.
- [41:20]
Jordan Campbell
That was Ilkay Gundan speaking to the Afghanistan Athletics Jordan Campbell. Make sure you go online right now to read the interview on the Athletic. Thanks for listening. See you soon.
- [41:33]
AG1 and Athletic FC Podcast Announcer
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beal. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Aid Morehead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual band places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [42:10]
Derek Clason
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- [43:12]
Ilkay Gundogan
Morning Zoe. Got donuts.
- [43:14]
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Jeff Bridges
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- [43:22]
Ilkay Gundogan
So Dana.
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Jeff Bridges
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Ilkay Gundogan
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Jeff Bridges
So what are we having for launch?
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Ilkay Gundogan
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Ilkay Gundogan
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