The Athletic FC Podcast

Episode: Gundogan Interview – Klopp vs Guardiola, Man City's Treble & More

Date: October 19, 2025
Host: Ayo Akinwolere
Guest: Ilkay Gundogan
Interviewer: Jordan Campbell

Episode Overview

This special episode of The Athletic FC Podcast features an in-depth interview with Ilkay Gundogan—former Manchester City captain, Champions League winner, and now Galatasaray midfielder. Host Ayo Akinwolere and interviewer Jordan Campbell guide Gundogan through his career highlights, from playing under Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola to winning the treble, his Turkish-German identity, physical longevity, tactical insights, and evolving roles on the pitch.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Childhood Dream Realized: Playing for Galatasaray

• [03:14] Gundogan shares how playing for Galatasaray—his boyhood club—felt at times 'almost impossible', only coming true late in his career after several near-misses.
  • "It was a dream coming true, to be honest with you." – Ilkay Gundogan [04:21]
• Family support, including his mother’s divided allegiance as a former Fenerbahce fan ("We were able to flip her!") is discussed with humor.

2. Dual Nationality & Cultural Identity

• [05:08] Gundogan reflects on representing both his German and Turkish heritage, balancing them with pride and nuance.
  • "If you grow up between two cultures... it's probably easy to understand. And to understand also that you respect both cultures." – Ilkay Gundogan [06:28]

3. Longevity & Professional Discipline

• [06:38] Physical care, especially diet, is touched upon—Gundogan cut sugar from his routine post-injuries, only indulging occasionally post-match or on holidays.
  • "I'm not the robot, I'm a human being as well... but in my everyday routine—and obviously building up to games—I'm very careful and senseful of what I do, what I eat, how I behave." – Ilkay Gundogan [07:23]
• He has no set retirement age, basing any decision on enjoyment and physical capability.

4. Leaving Manchester City

• [08:43] Gundogan describes an amicable, grateful farewell with Pep Guardiola and City leadership, emphasizing ongoing respect and emotional connections.
  • "Everything was on a very respectful, you know, a high-level conversation between friends at the end of the day." – Ilkay Gundogan [09:16]
• Unique insight into the player group chat ritual upon leaving a club.

5. Tactical Evolution: Klopp vs. Guardiola

• [13:50] onwards Gundogan and Campbell deep dive into Gundogan's tactical journey from Klopp's Dortmund to Guardiola's City.

A. Playing Under Klopp

• Describes Dortmund as a young, athletic, transitional team with intense pressing.
  • "It was a lot of fun... club Liverpool that everyone knows—was the way I had to adapt myself." – Ilkay Gundogan [14:44]
• Klopp instilled a 'panic-button' mentality after losing the ball:
  • "It felt almost like... someone is hitting a button when we lose the ball—people just sprint and try to recover the ball." – Ilkay Gundogan [17:51]

B. Playing Under Guardiola

• Guardiola's "matrix" of possession-based football was initially daunting and demanding.
  • "You spend 90 minutes chasing the ball and you don't understand why. It's like there's a matrix there that you cannot see." – Jordan Campbell quoting Gundogan [18:38]
• "Pep was so crazy in terms of trying to find the perfect game... the margin of making mistakes was just so slim." – Ilkay Gundogan [19:07]
• He credits Guardiola’s system with clearer alignment to his own football philosophy due to its clarity and tactics.
  • "With Pep, it feels... that possession-based game as well, it feels a bit more clear to me, you know, than Jurgen's more transitional football." – Ilkay Gundogan [16:34]

C. Reading the Game

• Awareness and scanning are his superpowers—especially crucial under Guardiola.
  • "That's only awareness, you know, that's something that helped me a lot... playing for Pep, because... it's all about awareness, isn't it?" – Ilkay Gundogan [17:13]

6. Football Trends & Tactical Change

A. The Rise of Man-to-Man Marking

• Gundogan acknowledges the recent Premier League trend of man-to-man pressing, but expresses skepticism.
  • "I'm not always a big fan of man to man... there's a lot of potential to become messy." – Ilkay Gundogan [21:17]

B. Tactical Fluidity

• Fixed formations are less relevant now—players’ positions dictated by opponents and the ball.
• "You need constantly changing positions... but you still need to have the possibility for recovery (gegenpressing, as Jurgen always called it)." – Ilkay Gundogan [23:32]
• Rest defense is key to modern possession-based teams.

C. Training Patterns & Simplicity

• Success under Guardiola comes from rehearsed movement, positional games, and relentless training to make the complex appear simple.
  • "When it looks maybe risky, it's not anymore. Because everyone knows what's going to happen..." – Ilkay Gundogan [26:28]
  • "Our biggest strength was that everyone knew his job." – Ilkay Gundogan [27:26]

7. Personal Style & Key Abilities

• Simplicity and clarity stand out as Gundogan’s preferred approach.
  • "I like to keep things simple, you know, in my life as well... On the football pitch, I feel like it's enough already to make the simple things on the highest standard." – Ilkay Gundogan [40:04]

8. The Manchester City Treble & Advanced Role

• Gundogan’s evolution from central midfield to a more attacking, goal-scoring midfielder.
  • "Sometimes you end up always making the runs...but the ball never really arrives... I make it 10 times, I receive it six, seven times." – Ilkay Gundogan [31:35]
• Pep Guardiola specifically encouraged him to break into goal-scoring positions, especially when City lacked a natural striker.
  • "He spotted I was really good in arriving there... it just becomes a habit." – Ilkay Gundogan [32:50]

9. Memorable Moments

• Discussion of his iconic goals, including in title-deciding games.
• Embraces "Mr. Whippy" nickname for his finishing (curls into the net).
  • "I found it funny. I mean, I didn't understand it in the beginning, to be honest with you." – Ilkay Gundogan [35:59]

10. City’s Difficult Periods & Turnarounds

• Mid-season struggle attributed to injuries and loss of intensity.
  • "We dragged ourselves also down, you know, and everything started to frustrate us, and we just made it quite easy, you know, for the opponents." – Ilkay Gundogan [38:13]
• The return of defenders and competition for places were pivotal to recovering form.

11. Future as a Coach

• Gundogan is already working towards coaching badges and sees coaching—possibly under Pep someday—as his next step.
  • "Very seriously. To be honest with you, I already finished my first batch. I will do the other ones as well. It just feels natural..." – Ilkay Gundogan [41:01]

Notable Quotes by Segment

• [04:21] "It was a dream coming true, to be honest with you." – Ilkay Gundogan, on signing for Galatasaray
• [07:23] "I'm not the robot, I'm a human being as well...but in my everyday routine... I'm very careful and senseful of what I do." – Ilkay Gundogan
• [09:16] "[Leaving City was] a very respectful, high-level conversation between friends at the end of the day." – Ilkay Gundogan
• [14:44] "...the way I had to adapt myself, which took me a little time, coming from a small club like Nuremberg to Dortmund. But once I got it, I got it." – Ilkay Gundogan
• [16:34] "With Pep...it feels a bit more clear to me, you know, than Jurgen's more transitional football." – Ilkay Gundogan
• [17:51] "It's like someone is hitting a button when we lose the ball and bam, people just sprint and try to recover the ball..." – Ilkay Gundogan (on Klopp's pressing)
• [19:07] "Pep was so crazy in terms of trying to find the perfect game..." – Ilkay Gundogan
• [21:17] "A lot of potential to become messy, to be honest with you...I don't like messy, I don't like it." – Ilkay Gundogan on man-to-man pressing
• [27:26] "Our biggest strength was always that everyone knew his job." – Ilkay Gundogan
• [31:35] "...I make it 10 times, I receive it six, seven times...it's easier to keep making these runs because you know in not just a long time you will be rewarded." – Ilkay Gundogan
• [35:59] "I found it funny. I mean, I didn't understand it in the beginning, to be honest with you." – Ilkay Gundogan on the 'Mr. Whippy' nickname
• [38:13] "We dragged ourselves also down, you know...made it quite easy for the opponents." – Ilkay Gundogan on City's mid-season struggles
• [40:04] "I like to keep things simple ...it's enough already to make the simple things on the highest standard." – Ilkay Gundogan
• [41:01] "Very seriously...I already finished my first batch. I will do the other ones as well. It just feels natural to me, you know, to go into that space." – Ilkay Gundogan, about coaching badges

Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Topic | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------| | 03:14 | Childhood dream of joining Galatasaray | | 05:08 | Dual nationality, playing for Germany and Turkey | | 06:38 | Diet and professional longevity | | 08:43 | Leaving Man City and relationship with Pep | | 13:50 | Tactics at Dortmund, under Klopp | | 15:33 | Working with Klopp vs. Guardiola | | 17:51 | Klopp's pressing philosophy | | 18:38 | Guardiola's possession "matrix" | | 20:45 | Man-to-man marking in modern football | | 22:28 | City’s triangles and positional play | | 23:29 | Rest defense and tactical fluidity | | 25:23 | Coaching patterns and team simplicity | | 26:49 | Number eight role under Pep | | 31:20 | Evolution to an attacking role and goal-scoring | | 32:31 | Guardiola's influence on his advanced role | | 34:01 | Discussion of iconic goals and the back-post zone | | 35:59 | "Mr. Whippy" nickname | | 37:40 | City's struggles with counterattacking transitions | | 39:21 | How City turned season around; squad competition | | 40:04 | Gundogan's personal footballing philosophy | | 41:01 | Serious plans for a future in coaching |

Memorable Moments

• Family allegiances: Flipping his mother from Fenerbahce to Galatasaray [04:42]
• WhatsApp group departures: Explains the etiquette of leaving a team chat after a transfer [10:02]
• Goal scoring as a midfielder: How repeated runs eventually get rewarded in a top team [31:35]
• The 'Mr. Whippy' nickname: Gundogan’s bemusement at the playful label for his trademark finishes [35:59]

Conclusion

This conversation with Ilkay Gundogan weaves technical detail, tactical philosophy, and personal narrative into one of the most honest career retrospectives from a modern football great. His reflections reveal the nuances of elite European football—from Klopp’s emotional pressing to Guardiola’s calculated possession, and how the greatest teams achieve "simple" football at the highest level.

For anyone curious about top-level football’s evolution, what truly makes team success, and the mindset of a modern, internationally minded professional, this interview offers valuable insights and anecdotes straight from the source.

[Read the full interview on The Athletic] for more in-depth coverage of Gundogan’s career, his time under two legendary managers, and what might come next for one of the game's most understated leaders.